First look at Evangeline Lilly in 'The Hobbit: the Desolation of Smaug'

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I am not against feminism, but I dislike over-the-top demonstrations of the phenomenon (Agan will now for sure beat me with a banana when we meet in the indefinite future )

Heck, I am an outrageous over the top demonstration of everything I am, including feminism, and I will only beat you with a banana if you don't like me because of it.

Still, I doubt Tauriel was written from a feminist perspective entirely. I feel Mith is right when she says Tauriel isn't there for the girls. Us women, we have got used to relating to male characters because women aren't available - that's not the problem. But can straight men watch a film without a hot heroine to entertain romantic thoughts about? The movie industry thinks not.

Again, I'm unwilling to pass judgment yet, but if Tauriel, who is 'slightly reckless and totally ruthless and doesn’t hesitate to kill' only has a harsh exterior, and all it takes to warm her up and help her solve those dassy issues is a whiff of testosterone, you will know she wasn't there for the ladies.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Would everybody be carrying on nearly so much at the addition of “a shallow desperate fighter” who was a male? (Note that technically the “shallowness” is still an assumption, though probably a safe one.)

I don't think there was much of a fuss about Figwit, or Lindir if you prefer, even though it wasn't exactly necessary for him to have a name or lines. We don't complain (much) about Lurtz replacing Uglúk, or any of PJ's other original characters that I just read about on Wikipedia.

While I certainly have my doubts about Tauriel, as I have pointed out, I feel a lot of the hate comes down to her being a woman. She seems off primarily because there are no women in The Hobbit, and when you're uncomfortable with something, it's easy to come up with excuses for why she's a baaaad character. Mind you, I am by no means implying anyone is misogynistic for not liking her (even if there's also evidence of that on the internet) - it's just something I feel needs saying. Especially as all we actually know about her is how she looks (also, would we be paying so much attention to a male character's looks?) and a couple of little things.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

We don't complain (much) about Lurtz replacing Uglúk

Actually, I've always been quietly upset about that one. I understand why they did it so they could have a big payoff at the end of the first movie and so Aragorn could look all cool...but I still don't like it.

Especially as all we actually know about her is how she looks (also, would we be paying so much attention to a male character's looks?) and a couple of little things.

In fairness, there was a lot of complaining about the look of the all male dwarves back when their appearance was debuted (I should know, I was doing some of it).

And, come on, her ears look terrible!

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Actually, I've always been quietly upset about that one. I understand why they did it so they could have a big payoff at the end of the first movie and so Aragorn could look all cool...but I still don't like it.

I was more upset about Brego replacing both Hasufel and Roheryn! He was even the wrong colour. Sheesh!

In fairness, there was a lot of complaining about the look of the all male dwarves back when their appearance was debuted (I should know, I was doing some of it).

And, come on, her ears look terrible!

I know! I was doing it too (in real life if not on the Downs, I think that may have been one of my quieter times)! And yes, her ears and hair do look bad. Still, I've seen comments along the lines 'She's an ugly bitch and doesn't look like an elf at all', and that goes too far.

[Mithalwen]

What we know is pure Mary Sue cliche

young impetuous tick
specially gifted in this case an exceptional warrior tick
red hair tick
high in the favour of high ranking elves tick
has a romance which motivates her tick.

Do we know if she has cerulean orbs?

[Bêthberry]

You know, I just saw someone on FB call a picture of this character "beautiful". (Not the picture we have here.)

Different strokes for different folks.

Originally Posted by Kuru

Perhaps he never had an opportunity to flesh it out. It is part of his "unfinished, published posthumously" work.

Possibly. I've never checked out HoMe on Idril, mainly because I'm still enjoying BoLT too much.

But the lack of time, given how much niggling he did do on the Silm, is not really an explanation. The point still remains that he did spend time on Galadriel and Melian, who have flaws, but not on Idril, who folks here would seem to assume was a very positive character. Would flaws have come to light had Tolkien developed her? Or was he more interested in the flawed characters and less in the good? After all, we have a great deal about Turin but less about Tuor.

Originally Posted by marketing info on Tauriel

slightly reckless and totally ruthless and doesn’t hesitate to kill'

This I am positive would not be appropriate for any of Tolkien's heroes, let along his heroines. It was Gandalf, after all, who warned Frodo against killing Gollem and showing him mercy instead. That could not be said even of the Rohirrim, with their battle ethic. And I'm darn sure Tolkien would not have put it in a bedtime story for his sons.

Originally Posted by Aganzir to Galadriel55

I will only beat you with a banana if you don't like me because of it

Ooh, careful. I've seen how swift Gal55 is with a banana in person.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Or was he more interested in the flawed characters and less in the good? After all, we have a great deal about Turin but less about Tuor.

There is probably something to that.

[Mithalwen]

Lilly has said there is romance she isnt allowed to talk about

There isnt a lot of direct speech in the Silmarillion which I think it is more to do with it being written as synthetic myth as opposed to the synthetic history conceit of LOTR. Direct speech tends to be dooms and disputes. I don't see that its lack hould be a stick to beat zidril with. Er actions speak for her and even the sainted canary who has a lot more airtime speaks directly only once in the silmarillion and it is fairly banal. In UT Erendis talka a lot doesnt make her a more positive character.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Still, I've seen comments along the lines 'She's an ugly bitch and doesn't look like an elf at all', and that goes too far.

I certainly agree that personal attacks are inappropriate...however, I did say she looks like a Vulcan earlier in the thread.

Of course, it kind of can't be avoided because the Vulcans are essentially space elves and the Romulans are space dark elves. There is nothing original anywhere.

has a romance which motivates her tick.

Is it confirmed that she will have a thing with Kiligolas? (or is it Filigolas...even I can't keep the two of them straight).

To cross reference this thread, that could lead to some height-related awkward visuals.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Again, I'm unwilling to pass judgment yet, but if Tauriel, who is 'slightly reckless and totally ruthless and doesn’t hesitate to kill' only has a harsh exterior, and all it takes to warm her up and help her solve those dassy issues is a whiff of testosterone, you will know she wasn't there for the ladies.

Wait... So is she effectively Thranduil's John McClane?



Tauriel: A Loose Canon Cop, who doesn't play by the rules!

... Sorry, I couldn't help myself when I read that description of her character.

I think I've collectively made my peace with this whole entire character issue now.

[Kuruharan]

Gah!

MY EYES!!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Heck, I am an outrageous over the top demonstration of everything I am, including feminism, and I will only beat you with a banana if you don't like me because of it.

I like you well enough.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I was more upset about Brego replacing both Hasufel and Roheryn! He was even the wrong colour. Sheesh!

I was upset about Brego being some Arwen incarnation with four legs. Tsk tsk. That Arwen totally ruined the poor horsie. You know, PJ could have seriously developed the theme of relationships of animals to humans with this one. He should have spent more time on how Aragorn and Brego come to love each other like no two humans can.

:-D

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

But the lack of time, given how much niggling he did do on the Silm, is not really an explanation. The point still remains that he did spend time on Galadriel and Melian, who have flaws, but not on Idril, who folks here would seem to assume was a very positive character. Would flaws have come to light had Tolkien developed her? Or was he more interested in the flawed characters and less in the good? After all, we have a great deal about Turin but less about Tuor.

Because "things that are good to hae and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway."

[Aganzir]

After seeing the new trailer, Tauriel is the least of my concerns.

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

I certainly agree that personal attacks are inappropriate...however, I did say she looks like a Vulcan earlier in the thread.

Aw don't you mind, love, sometimes Vulcans happen.

The thing with Kiligolas (Fili is the hot one, the blonde who looks like me) hasn't been confirmed even though there have been rumours. However there have also been rumours about her having a thing with Legolas and/or Thranduil, so... For all we know, she'll teach Bard the Bowman to shoot and will end up marrying him.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

This I am positive would not be appropriate for any of Tolkien's heroes, let along his heroines. It was Gandalf, after all, who warned Frodo against killing Gollem and showing him mercy instead.

And after saying something equivalent in the Hobbit film, he unnecessarily butchers the Great Goblin while joking with him. Oh PJ, you couldn't have screwed it up worse.

Ooh, careful. I've seen how swift Gal55 is with a banana in person.

I'll have you know I can shoot three bullseyes in the time it takes most shooters at the archery range I go to to shoot one arrow.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Tauriel: A Loose Canon Cop, who doesn't play by the rules!

Hahaha this is amazing.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'll have you know I can shoot three bullseyes in the time it takes most shooters at the archery range I go to to shoot one.

But with bananas? That's settled then. When we meet in RL, we will have an archery competition with bananas for bows.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

But with bananas? That's settled then. When we meet in RL, we will have an archery competition with bananas for bows.

Or we can shoot bananas with rubber bands?