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#11 | ||||
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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The Eressean orc-origin idea was internally delivered as a belief for instance, but should the reader question the Wise of Eressea? And even if we did, if Tolkien himself had published this 'origin' alone, we might wonder a bit but in the end would still probably be noting this origin as 'fact', at least as far as what appears in the 'true' legendarium that is. In general, Elfwine was supposed to get his information rather directly from Eresseans, which is actually the 'more reliable' [in my opinion] transmission compared to the later idea. I'm going on memory here, but I think the role of Elfwine possibly 'survived' in text until the later 1950s, around the time of L&C. Certainly The Lord of the Rings first edition was published before this of course, but I would have to check the first edition 'transmission references' compared to the second edition to say anything possibly meaningful about that. That said, and not that you said or think otherwise, but the loss of Elfwine might only mean we need a new 'internal author' with some niggling to reflect this... ... but that said too, there seems to be notions within L&C that were revised, or arguably were, or are at least a bit questionable. For example, even the naming customs appear to have been revised according to Christopher Tolkien [compared to the shorter text on naming from the later The Shibbolerh of Feanor]. But I wonder if the 'missing' Chosen-name of the Noldor, for instnce, is only missing due to brevity, and the consideration that it doesn't seem to be a custom among the other Eldar in any case. But certainly I agree that L&C awaited revision if it was to become part of the author-published legendarium. Quote:
And while that works to drastically lengthen the years concerned, for instance from the Awakening of the Quendi [which gives much more time for 3,000 years to maturity to begin to dwindle] to the Rebellion, it just doesn't seem to work in all places, as the flight of the Noldor would take notably long, if I recall correctly. Quote:
![]() But I would be surprised if anything turned up about Elven ageing that could certainly be dated after Eldarin Hands, Fingers and Numerals. At the moment I'm not sure what text is later than the other: the one that represents 50 [some 100], or 3,000 but dwindling in Middle-earth; or the citation from the Line of Elros actually. I'm not sure it's possible to even know between these examples, but I haven't looked at the external dating recently. By the way I do remember it was someone at Barow Downs who opened my eyes to the possibility [and in my opinion probability] that the notion was 3,000 and dwindling in Middle-earth... ... it was years ago now, but thanks to that person
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