Turin and Maeglin?

[Urwen]

So, any other similarities you can see?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So, any other similarities you can see?

No, no, we're staying on the topic of changing accounts, because I made you a thing.

The Timeline of Maeglin

This table is a summary of M(a)eglin's story as told in the various accounts. It spans everything from the 1917 Fall to the 1970 Of Maeglin that went into the Silm (plus a footnote to The Wanderings of Hurin, which CT is cagey about dating).

What's really interesting is that Maeglin actually gets worse and worse from the Fall to the 1930 Quenta. In 1917 Melko already knew where Gondolin was; by 1930 Meglin was giving up its location as well as its secrets. He went from gaining a captaincy of Melko's army to lordship of the city as Morgoth's vassal. He also deliberately breaks the law in mining outside the mountains, where in 1917 he just strayed. And, oh yeah, the Quenta tells us that Meglin was plotting to usurp the throne of Gondolin even before his captivity.

(In both accounts, he also sends messages to Morgoth telling him to guard the Way of Escape. In the Quenta, the initial flight from Gondolin gets ambushed by a dragon because of him.)

Isfin (Aredhel)'s story stays roughly the same, though where exactly she gets lost varies - sometimes Taur-na-Fuin, sometimes Brethil, sometimes Nan Elmoth. Eol swings from a generic Dark Elf to a deserter from the Nirnaeth, back to our familiar grumpy kinsman of Thingol. The account of him being captured does exist (you were quite right!), but was rejected as too similar to Maeglin's capture.

Up until 1951, Meglin is a straight-up villain. It's only with the original 'Of Meglin' that any tragedy enters his story: that's when his parental murder-suicide story shows up, and it never changes after that. Unfortunately, the last account of the Fall of Gondolin was written 20 years earlier, and never revisited, so we don't have any idea whether Tolkien would have changed Maeglin's actions during the attack to reflect his more sympathetic backstory.

Except one. Buried in HoME XI is a footnote from The Wanderings of Hurin, which formed the lost end to the Grey Annals. I'm not sure whether it's from the '50s or later, but at any rate it postdates 'Of Meglin'. I've summarised it on the table, but CT records the full note like this:

"Later when captured and Maeglin wished to buy his release with treachery, Morgoth must answer laughing, saying: Stale news will buy nothing. I know this already, I am not easily blinded! So Maeglin was obliged to offer more - to undermine resistance in Gondolin."

Almost exactly the same note is found on the slip giving in-formation about the new meaning of the name Haladin; but here, after the words "undermine resistance in Gondolin", my father continued: "and to compass the death of Tuor and Earendel
if he could. If he did he would be allowed to retain Idril (said Morgoth)."

Whether this is materially different to the original story is for you to judge, but is an interesting text in that it's the very last time Tolkien ever wrote anything about the Fall of Gondolin.

hS

PS: And in a roundabout link back to your question: the reason for the footnote is that Turin's dad, in his wanderings, had just given away Gondolin's location - so Maeglin couldn't own that betrayal any more...

[Urwen]

Why is everyone so insistent on going off-topic.....?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Why is everyone so insistent on going off-topic.....?

Because I thought you'd like it?

Both were raised in a forest; clearly there is a deeper meaning to this.

hS

[Urwen]

Yes, I do like it, but such discussions are more appropriate for my other thread, Thoughts on M(a)eglin.

[Nerwen]

Another fragment from the "true" Silmarillion: Lalaith was a devil child. She would bite everyone who touched her and made snarling noises. Her name was actually Snarly, not Laughter. She was possessed by Morgoth and did horrible things to people around her. She didn't die in the plague, she was killed by her own household who couldn't stand it any longer. But because historians knew her best through what her family and those close to them said, they got a biased account of the girl; moreover, they didn't want to throw the shade of murder on the House of Hurin. So instead we got the story of a laughing princess. How do you like this alternative history? It has as much foundation as your alternative interpretations of Maeglin.

Why the scare quotes? That is from the true Silmarillion. We had an entire thread about the real Lalaith (or "Little Carcharoth" as she was known)! As I recall, we established that she bit Sador's foot off, among other things.

[Pervinca Took]

But were there tava beans to go with it?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Why the scare quotes? That is from the true Silmarillion. We had an entire thread about the real Lalaith (or "Little Carcharoth" as she was known)! As I recall, we established that she bit Sador's foot off, among other things.

If you posit that this Lalaith story is from *real Silmarillion* then so is my Maeglin account. If you posit that my Maeglin account is not true, then neither is the Lalaith story. In other words, no matter what you say, one of my faves will be portrayed in good light. So take that.