Eorling Mead Hall Planning/Discussion Thread [Archive] - Page 3

Formendacil

04-30-2006, 11:59 PM

Er.... ahem...

Ah, Greetings!

At the recent invitation of Piosennial, I have tentatively joined you all in contributing to the "Eorling Mead Hall" RPG. At the moment, I am (as I have not been on the 'Downs for over a year) a bit of a tremulous newbie.

As I'm sure you can see, I've just made my first contribution to the thread, introducing your first Dwarf, Náin son of Narin son of Nori. I've read over the thread as best I am able, and am familiar with the characters and what has happened on the thread thus far, but as part and parcel of my "newbieness", I would warn you that I may well make mistakes/continuity errors, and I expect and demand that you point them out for rectification.

So, nervously, I greet you all.

~Michael A. Joosten - Formendacil~

Formendacil

05-01-2006, 12:15 AM

Though I am told it is not required of the Eorling Mead Hall, I have a Character Description of Náin that I wish to share, if only to assist the other RPGers in getting a bit more of a feel for his character:

NAME: Náin son of Narin son of Nori

AGE: 53

RACE: Dwarf, of the House of Longbeards

GENDER: Male: none of this is-a-female-under-the-beard nonsense here.

WEAPONS: A long, bearded battle-axe. Several hammers and chisels as well, if one wants to count those.

APPEARANCE: Four feet, six inches tall, muscular, possessing a full, red beard of about two feet in length. Rather thin-faced as Dwarves go, typically cheerful in appearance.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Náin is a people person: he likes being around people, and being liked by people- except when he’s working, when he’d generally rather be alone. Generally cheerful and optimistic, he can be off-putting with a rather grave attitude normally. He has a sense of humour, but it tends to be of the wrier, dry variety. A sculptor by trade, he’s also got basic skills in masonry and smithying. Though not a warrior professionally, he is a sound fighter with his bearded battle-axe. Not particularly comfortable around women, he can be easily flustered by prolonged exposure to them. He’s also got a bit of a prejudice against Elves, as is typical for Dwarves.

HISTORY: The grandson of Nori, companion of Thorin Oakenshield, Náin was born in Erebor, and there lived until the present time. Though young- for a Dwarf- he displayed more than average skill in sculpture, and was thus chosen to go to Edoras in gratitude to King Éomer’s generosity to Gimli’s colonization of the Glittering Caves. During the War of the Ring, Náin fought in the Battle of Erebor, and certainly did his part fighting off orks and Easterlings. It was at this time that he acquired most of his warrior’s skills. As the grandson of Nori, Náin is on the wealthier side for a Dwarf, although an uncle older than his father inherited most of their portion of the family gold. As a result, he has never known true hunger or poverty save what he experienced during the Siege of Erebor.

Oh, and as a final note:

I have no idea who greeted Náin in the entrance.... Any takers?

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-01-2006, 12:17 AM

Saeryn, once the action with Lin is over, will be utterly fascinated by your character, Form. I highly doubt she's ever been in the presence of a Dwarf. It'll be fun for me to write.

Formendacil

05-01-2006, 12:43 AM

Saeryn, once the action with Lin is over, will be utterly fascinated by your character, Form. I highly doubt she's ever been in the presence of a Dwarf. It'll be fun for me to write.

The fun will be mutual, when that day comes... Náin is easily flustered around ladies...

Celuien

05-01-2006, 06:04 PM

I've modified Jenny's plan of the hall to show Garstan's changes. More or less. The curve of the hall is a little off since I'm not great with Paint and it's not necessarily to scale, but it shows the general idea.

Garstan's plan. (http://www.freewebs.com/celuien/mead%20hall%20plan2.JPG)

Nice to see you here, Formendacil. I'm sure Garstan will appreciate the advice of one of the Dwarves. Cunning folk with stone, I hear. :D

littlemanpoet

05-01-2006, 09:04 PM

I suppose something squared off would be easier to build than a curve. I had been envisioning a wall that connected the mead hall to the kitchen, forming two 90 degree corners, with a corridor between. I see there are two doors, one each from kitchen and mead hall, into the "Alder Court". Looks good.

Man, I'm still having a hard time thinking of the stables on that side of the mead hall. :rolleyes:

Celuien

05-01-2006, 09:13 PM

Can do the 90 degree angles. It might even make my arclengths work correctly.

Should the stables move too while I'm redrawing?

littlemanpoet

05-01-2006, 09:34 PM

Leave the stables where they are. I'm fine with it, just somebody correct me if I have Eodwine or Falco walk out the wrong side of the building to get to stables that are only there in the character's imagination. :p

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-01-2006, 09:36 PM

Elempi, I have the most fantastic image of a life-sized statue of Falco adorning the courtyard. Thanks for that. :p:cool:

Formendacil

05-02-2006, 11:54 AM

Nice to see you here, Formendacil. I'm sure Garstan will appreciate the advice of one of the Dwarves. Cunning folk with stone, I hear. :D

Thanks for the welcome. We shall see how cunning Náin is... Oh, and thanks to LMP and Fea, it seems that he's set up for a first comission. Double-scale hobbit statue, anyone?

On that note, how tall IS Falco? With the normal Hobbit range being between 2 and 4 feet, this statue could be a mere table-topper if only lifesize.

piosenniel

05-03-2006, 03:38 AM

NOTICE:

JennyHallu's RPG Abduction in Edoras (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12813) now has a Discussion Thread open & ready to take on players.

Come one, come all and play out the kidnapping of Linduial subplot from the Mead Hall.

~*~ Pio

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-03-2006, 10:54 AM

I've gone and lost Saeryn's age. Does anybody remember if I definitively mentioned it anywhere?

Folwren

05-03-2006, 11:48 AM

I've gone and lost Saeryn's age. Does anybody remember if I definitively mentioned it anywhere?

Aye, she's as old as Degas.

Actually, I don't remember, but Saeryn was introduced to the game before I came along.

-- Folwren

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-03-2006, 12:59 PM

Yes, well... it's exactly that reason that I need to know... that and if somebody asks her. "Well, I'm either 18, or 20, but you see, I'm not entirely sure, given that my writer never bothered to write it down." I'm writing up a bio for Degas, so now I'm thinking on it and can't remember.

littlemanpoet

05-03-2006, 01:47 PM

Thanks for the welcome. We shall see how cunning Náin is... Oh, and thanks to LMP and Fea, it seems that he's set up for a first comission. Double-scale hobbit statue, anyone?

On that note, how tall IS Falco? With the normal Hobbit range being between 2 and 4 feet, this statue could be a mere table-topper if only lifesize.Let's figure 3' 6".

Make it 18, I'd say...; old enough to be married off, not old enough to have means to stave it off other than running away....and that makes Eodwine go a little more bonkers in his brain, taking himself to task for getting distracted by such a young thing at his 'advanced' age.... ;)

Folwren

05-03-2006, 01:51 PM

littlemanpoet

05-03-2006, 01:57 PM

What's happened to the Mead Hall, by the way? What are the plans? I don't think I'll be writing any more for this particular day until later in the afternoon (in the game) at which time I'm going to do a post about Thornden and his sister. . .and then I would like to be able to come back and talk to Lys. I don't think Thornden will be getting back to the Mead Hall until after dark, though.

So, what's going on?

-- FolwrenGood question. I'm waiting for Formy's Nain to respond to Falco. It looks like I'm due to say something to Degas and friends, and I haven't had a chance to get at a computer for any reasonable length of time since Monday. There needs to be a general search of the fairgrounds, which will feel fruitless until word spreads, and finally when the thing shuts down just before twilight, the Mead hall friends will conclude that Linduial is lost, kidnapped, or worse; at that point Eodwine will challenge Degas to hightail it to Dol Amroth; at which point someone ought to come with a message for Eodwine from the kidnapper. Who wants to be the message bearer? If I know, then I can work it into my post. That will close out the Night.

After that, I'm going to move the Game ahead 20 days, which means April 24 (still grrrr behind our calendar), at which time Eodwine will give his decisions regarding the month-long trial periods of all his new hirelings.

Any questions?

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-03-2006, 02:15 PM

littlemanpoet

05-03-2006, 02:30 PM

Jen's ransom note post for the mini-game has the queen herself coming to inform them of the happenings.

How are we splitting events between the two? Write at the Hall up to the point where Jen has the queen coming (which is pretty much the search of the fairgrounds and getting to the Hall where they see that she's definately not there) and then transfer that story to the other thread and continue onward in both places?

I've scanned the Abduction thread. Okay..... corrections to my last post:

I'll make one last post for Eodwine that is pre-sub-plot rpg, in which he dresses down Degas and then all of the mead hall friends go there, at which point the sub-rpg takes over the plot.

We'll start on April 24 Game time, with my next post. Okay, everybody?

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-03-2006, 03:07 PM

Good for me.

A note: Saeryn and Degas were born on May 1st. Saeryn hasn't informed anybody that her 19th birthday is coming up and is unlikely to. Degas, on the other hand, has no qualms about throwing her a party.

Folwren

05-03-2006, 03:08 PM

I've scanned the Abduction thread. Okay..... corrections to my last post:

I'll make one last post for Eodwine that is pre-sub-plot rpg, in which he dresses down Degas and then all of the mead hall friends go there, at which point the sub-rpg takes over the plot.

We'll start on April 24 Game time, with my next post. Okay, everybody?

What?! Oh, very well. I guess so. I had been looking forward to writing a post with a discussion between Thornden and his sister about Rose and her family...could have gotten some real amusement out of that one. And then coming back to meet Lys...but that second part can be made up later, I guess.

If all this is entirely out of the question, though, I'll have to live with it. Don't want to put the rest of you out of commission.

-- Folwren

Undómë

05-03-2006, 03:19 PM

lmp

Do you or anyone else mind if I do an occassional Away post for Rose and her family?

At some point, I'll bring them for a trip into the "big" city.

~ U

Nerindel

05-03-2006, 04:54 PM

Hey everyone, sorry I haven't posted much Rl has been keeping me overly busy lately.

Wow It looks like I have lot's to catch up on!

hmm but one thing has thrown me well my character actually.

Fourth Age Year 15. 16, actually, come to think of it, seeing as a new March 25 has just come and gone lately.....

You see young Æðelhild was written with the old White horses time line in mind.

The White Horse Inn, Act III

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The curtain rises on The White Horse Inn, Act III, Rohan's premier Inn and purveyor of fine gaming and characters.

The plot so far:

It is the 4th Age, Year One. This is the year 1423 by Shire Reckoning and four years after the events of the War of the Ring, fourteen years after the events of the previous White Horse Inn.

but now that we have jumped forward some 15yrs or so, it does not quite work out. As this would make her not even born during the war of the ring as she is only just approaching 18yrs, making all the posts about serving with the healers and knowing both her father and grandfather before their deaths some what redundant. :(

I'm thinking that I may have to age her somewhat instead of 18yrs she may have to be about 27yrs, but then I think somewhere Leof mentions something about them being of simmilair ages hmmm *stumped*

Any suggestions?

Celuien

05-03-2006, 06:27 PM

Updated Mead Hall plan:

New plan. (http://www.freewebs.com/celuien/mead%20hall%20plan2.JPG)

The hallway has been squared off. I imagine there are windows in the hallway looking out on the alder court, maybe some shelving in between them and along the opposite wall for added storage. Those corners make some nice nooks on the outside. Benches? Plants? Statues of hobbits? :D

I'm not entirely sure what the larger gray box in the kitchen represents, but it's there. ;) :)

I'm not sure I have much to add right now. At least, nothing that I can't handle in retrospect after the time change if I don't have a chance to post before the switch. I might not, since I sort of have a big shelf exam at the end of next week in a massive topic, but I'll try.

Firefoot

05-03-2006, 06:47 PM

I'm thinking that I may have to age her somewhat instead of 18yrs she may have to be about 27yrs, but then I think somewhere Leof mentions something about them being of simmilair ages hmmm *stumped* Yeah, somehow I don't think the two of them would have hit it off quite so well if she was ten years older than him...

littlemanpoet

05-03-2006, 08:51 PM

I had been looking forward to writing a post with a discussion between Thornden and his sister about Rose and her family...could have gotten some real amusement out of that one.How about writing it anyway, just put it as something that happened in the past and Thornden is reliving it in his mind?

Do you or anyone else mind if I do an occassional Away post for Rose and her family?Not at all. Please do! It's part of the story now, and to now have it would be a loss we don't want to grieve.

I'm thinking that I may have to age her somewhat instead of 18yrs she may have to be about 27yrs, but then I think somewhere Leof mentions something about them being of simmilair ages hmmm *stumped* Any suggestions?Uh oh. That's a goof on my part. I'm sorry. Could there be a different war? or battle? I really don't know what to say....
:(

Firefoot

05-03-2006, 08:57 PM

That could work:Appendix A:
For though Sauron had passed, the hatreds and evils that he bred had not died, and the King of the West had many enemies to subdue before the White Tree could grow in peace. :)

Formendacil

05-03-2006, 11:13 PM

Good question. I'm waiting for Formy's Nain to respond to Falco.

That's been done, as I'm sure you'll have seen by the time you read this... I hope my characterization of Falco isn't too far off the mark- and I hope he smokes Longbottom Leaf, and not Old Toby or Southern Star. However, that's easily changed.

littlemanpoet

05-04-2006, 08:18 PM

Looks good, Formy.

Folwren, I think you could still have Thorden return to the mead hall to close out this Day, and see Lys.

Nerindel, how about something having to do with orcs marauding in the mountains just east of Ithilien, or maybe a Haradrim mini-war in Pelargir which could have been the history for Æðelhild? Unless you really want the War of the Ring connection? If so, I think you could still have A befriend Léof, in terms of being kindred spirits instead of same age. Might be more interesting that way; the age difference could actually turn into a rather fun dynamic that way.... just thinking out loud.....

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-04-2006, 09:11 PM

Do you need an actual Degas-searching-the-fair post or can we run on the assumption that he did?

littlemanpoet

05-05-2006, 03:12 PM

Do you need an actual Degas-searching-the-fair post or can we run on the assumption that he did?
Figure he did.

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-05-2006, 03:21 PM

Oh good.

littlemanpoet

05-06-2006, 09:11 PM

Folwren, is Thornden going to come back to see Lys this Day?

Cool post, Anguirel. :)Is it possible to make the Manawyth story a subplot in the Abduction story so that we can move ahead the amount of time I'd like with the mead hall thread? Because Manawyth's criminal case will come before Eodwine on the very next day without a doubt. I'll have to check on that....

And another thing. Since Lothiriel comes to the mead hall with the abductor's letter in hand, which starts the sub-plot on the new thread, then I'll have to transfer Saeryn's curiosity over Eodwine's dream, and his eventual telling of that dream, to the Abduction story-line as well.

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-06-2006, 11:01 PM

Trouble being that I had no plan whatsoever to include Saeryn in the sub-plot. I can, but I hadn't really meant to participate at all, given my distinct lack of time if the thing runs over about three weeks. What would Saeryn's place in the sub-plot even be?

Taralphiel

05-07-2006, 12:34 AM

Sorry I've been so quiet everyone. Lys doesn't have much to do, really ... :rolleyes:

LMP, I'd say that seeing Lys is a must. It'd be a bit of an awkward post to try and recap a few weeks of major events, if that makes sense :p

Perhaps Foley could post, and I make the final post for the day? Up to you, completely.

Tara :)

littlemanpoet

05-07-2006, 01:22 PM

Trouble being that I had no plan whatsoever to include Saeryn in the sub-plot.In that case we may need to move Lothiriel's arrival at the Mead Hall into the Eorling Mead Hall thread and out of the Abduction thread. That would restore continuity and get the stalled mead hall thread the restart it needs.

I'd say that seeing Lys is a must. It'd be a bit of an awkward post to try and recap a few weeks of major events, if that makes sense. Like I said above.

Folwren

05-07-2006, 01:44 PM

Folwren, I think you could still have Thorden return to the mead hall to close out this Day, and see Lys.

----

Folwren, is Thornden going to come back to see Lys this Day?

I'm so sorry! Yes, I would love to do that, actually. It would be awesome if I could bring Thornden back and do a meeting Lys post for this first day. Do you want me to finish the day, or will Tara write a post after me, or what? It would be nice if she could squeeze a post in there before we jumped a few weeks.

Also, what will be the status of everyone in the Mead Hall when Thornden returns after night fall? Hectic? Or will everyone be calm and tired out by their day of utter horribleness. (I'm sorry, I'm at a horrid loss of words at the moment. I'm extremely tired. . .won't go into detail.) Let me know and I'll try to post today.

-- Folwren

littlemanpoet

05-07-2006, 01:53 PM

I'm so sorry! Yes, I would love to do that, actually. It would be awesome if I could bring Thornden back and do a meeting Lys post for this first day. Do you want me to finish the day, or will Tara write a post after me, or what?Good. Folwren & Tara both post, and I'll save the last post of the Day for Eodwine.

Also, what will be the status of everyone in the Mead Hall when Thornden returns after night fall? Hectic? Or will everyone be calm and tired out by their day of utter horribleness?Calm and tired out. Yes, that's what it will be.

Feanor, any chance for a short conversation between Saeryn and Eodwine to wrap up the Day? Perhaps a PM convo?

Folwren

05-07-2006, 01:56 PM

Okay, good. Post on the way.

---

Edit: Posted. Tara, I left it open for Lys to respond as he would to Thornden. If you woud like to have Lys ask a few, common questions about who Thornden is, what his name is, or whatever, go ahead and talk for Thornden. :) Have fun with it.

-- Folwren

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-07-2006, 04:20 PM

Feanor, any chance for a short conversation between Saeryn and Eodwine to wrap up the Day? Perhaps a PM convo?
Yes. And will Degas be sent out within or before that? I'd like my next post for him to be in Gondor, if possible.

Taralphiel

05-07-2006, 04:59 PM

Thanks Fol and lmp . I'll get to work on that post now. Should be up by the end of the day.

Tara :)

JennyHallu

05-07-2006, 06:04 PM

I assumed Degas would be sent out in the Abduction thread, in whatever Eodwine's first response was.

JennyHallu

05-07-2006, 06:09 PM

Responses to my last post will go in the Abduction to Edoras thread.

Continuations of the Mead Hall storyline belong here.

Folwren

05-07-2006, 06:18 PM

I have moved my post to where I think it belongs. I hope I am right. If not, Pio can put it back where it belongs.

-- Folwren

Ithaeliel

05-09-2006, 08:34 AM

Hullo all!

I do hope to get involved in a roleplay here soon, but for now I'll just wait in the mead hall (I hope it will give me enough of a refresher course... I haven't done this in so long). Lovely to see some of you old friends, and I'm looking forward to making some new acquaintances!

with love,
Ithaeliel

littlemanpoet

05-09-2006, 09:41 PM

Welcome, Ithaeliel, to the Eorling Mead Hall. :)

Question: is "Eorl" supposed to be the lord of the Eorling Mead Hall? Or is that someone else? The name of the Eorl of Middle Emnet, and therefore the lord at the Eorling Mead Hall, is Eodwine. That may be confusing, I know, but blame the Anglo-Saxons. :p

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-09-2006, 10:32 PM

Time jump comes next, lmp?

littlemanpoet

05-10-2006, 03:59 AM

Time jump comes next, lmp?
Yes.

But I have to figure out with Anguirel where to place the Manawyth horse-thieving sub-plot. Would that be a whole 20 days later? Or would it be the very next day? In the culture I would expect it to be the very next day, but maybe we could find a believable reason why it would take 20 days before trial. Any ideas, Ang?

JennyHallu

05-10-2006, 04:56 AM

Why would it be the next day? Kings and Lords in that era might set aside a day once a month in which cases are heard, and anyone who has something to set before the lord may come and do so. Meanwhile, someone would have to offer surety for Manawyth or he would remain imprisoned, and the horse would be stabled somewhere neutral (Meduseld, perhaps?) with the cost bourne by the loser of the case, whenever it is heard.

Anguirel

05-10-2006, 06:47 AM

Anglo-Saxons didn't really go in for prisons, especially for ignoble horse-thieves...

A surety sounds like a vaguely good idea. Could some Mead Hall guard like, say, Garwine, encounter Cuichelm with Manawyth, hear what's gone on and take Manawyth back to the Inn under the Eorl's surety till the trial?

Another, rather desperate expedient would be for Manawyth to escape from his captors, become a wild outlawed woodsman, and then be recaptured and brought to trial whenever is convenient. It would require a rather adventurous post from me, but I think I'm up for it...

littlemanpoet

05-10-2006, 09:55 AM

Take your pick, Anguirel.

First off, the place where Manawyth was apprehended, was in the midst of Edoras, which is in Middle Emnet. Therefore, he actually comes under the jurisdiction of Eodwine. This may not necessarily be understood by the locals yet, so they'd bring Manawyth to Meduseld and be informed that they'd gone to the wrong place, and they had better 'move it to the Eorling Mead Hall'. Which puts them in a bit of a bind, as suddenly they realize their hopes of getting Manawyth amputated at the wrist, ankle, or neck, or whatever, suddenly has become less likely, as Eodwine is himself likely to speak for Manawyth.

Anyway, Eodwine will set a date for as long as he feels like. :p Which will be 20 days hence, because he wants the month to be over and Manawyth to be declared "his man" before the trial begins, for the sake of protection.

But if Manawyth tries to escape and make Eodwine's job of protecting him that much harder, go for it. It's up to you, Ang.

Anguirel

05-10-2006, 02:27 PM

littlemanpoet

05-10-2006, 10:22 PM

Weeell...the Escape plan would be wonderfully ironic.

But I won't be able to get it up till the day after tomorrow or so.

So if you want a quicker time jump, we'd better go with the less Baroque course...otherwise I'd love to write my get-away.
Dueling Wizards Werewolf and RL are sabotaging any attempts to do anything else right now, so the new Day won't start until probably late Thursday night or Friday.

Nogrod

05-11-2006, 08:35 AM

littlemanpoet

05-11-2006, 08:54 AM

Hello everyone!

Even though my first Shire RPG (Outracing the Flames) is not over - it should have been over some two weeks ago, but seems now to go on indefinitively - Pio encouraged me to write to the Eorling Mead hall.Welcome, Nogrod! :)

I have been reading the stuff and it looks very good indeed. Thanks!

- Are you in need of a certain kind of character? F.ex. still needing some workers to help in the renovation or something? Something that this newest twist of the plot would call for? I'm open for all kind of characters. If you have nothing special in mind, I'll come up with something.I certainly would be interested in having more retainers or craftsmen for Eodwine to work with. If a craftsman, you need to decide if you want to be a visitor with an end date at which point you want to move on, or whether you're going to be in this for the long haul. If short term, be some kind of builder/carpenter. If long haul, then be something more like a guard or man at arms who can help with carpentry. Some of the ladies who post here have graciously chosen to represent male characters so that the gender balance is reasonably good. I'd like it if you would play a man, to keep that gender balance going well.

- I see you people write a lot of interaction between the characters, even dialogue, in your posts. What is the common practise here? One writes it and then posts it via PM to the other for approval or editing? The two PM and negotiate about the contents and write it to a dialogue by PMs / messenger? You deal the outlines here on the discussion thread and the other may ask for corrections as the post is in the actual thread?Basically, we exercise a lot of freedom here. You can plan on posting up, and using your good judgement as to what another character might say, always with the understanding that the primary writer of the character you write, may ask for an edit of some kind. That kind of request can be handled either through this discussion thread, or via PM, up to the requester.

Some of us, notably Feanor and I, have decided to do a PM-post, which is what I think you're talking about. It's just something you set up with another writer if you want to.

Hope that helps!

I could try writing myself in during the weekend.That would be great!

Nogrod

05-11-2006, 09:18 AM

Welcome, Nogrod! :)
-------------------
If long haul, then be something more like a guard or man at arms who can help with carpentry.
Thanks! I think I could stick around. So I'll go for that man-of-arms / carpenter-hand option.

Basically, we exercise a lot of freedom here. You can plan on posting up, and using your good judgement as to what another character might say, always with the understanding that the primary writer of the character you write, may ask for an edit of some kind. That kind of request can be handled either through this discussion thread, or via PM, up to the requester.
I'm so happy to hear that!

Looking forwards to enter the game.

Folwren

05-11-2006, 10:31 AM

Elempi, when and how is the next day going to start, and who opens it? Is Lin going to be back? (Do you know, I always call her Lin because I can't remember her full name? Linduial? Anyway, I don't want to try.) Just wondering.

Welcome, Nogrod. Have fun. :D

-- Folwren

piosenniel

05-11-2006, 10:49 AM

~*~ A Round of Applause! ~*~

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

Just to let all know, three new writers have been added to the Rohan Gamers' List:

Thinlómien

Dunwen

Anguirel

For their excellent work in a recent Shire game.

~*~ Pio :)

Nogrod

05-11-2006, 02:48 PM

Congrats to the new Rohanians!
(I'll try to follow you one day)

But some thoughts about my characters entry.

- I think my character has been attending the fair and seeks just a place to overnight to begin with. I think it would be too simple, if he would just come in and ask for work (and somehow just happening to be kind of a right person needed). I believe we can come up with something to make him stay for awhile. Maybe tomorrow, there would be some construction work requiring someone who knows how to handle carpenter's tools, maybe you would need an extra man at arms tomorrow for some reason, maybe something else...?

- It's probably the same from my character's point of view, whether you change the day before or after he arrives. In the first case he must have had somewhat a joyful night and have slept somewhere out there - and would be coming to the Mead Hall to get some breakfast (he might then be having some headache too :p ). In the second case he surely would be just searching for a place to overnight - and would come in after the fair is closed.

Thinlómien

05-12-2006, 07:15 AM

As you might see from pio's list, I'm now allowed to post in Rohan (if I dare to). I would like to get my character in quite soon.

I have thought about a dunlending (or is the correct word dunleding?) character. That could create interesting situations...

I would maybe a female character since I've actively played only men this far, but I can add another guy to my "collections" if that's necessary. My character would probably be a kind of outcast (from Dunland) who has lived in Rohan for at least one year, so she wouldn't be totally unfamiliar with the language and stuff like that.

I don't know yet, why'd she be in the inn, but I'm sure I can make something up.

I think anyway, that I need some advice/comments on dunlendings before starting. Since anglo-saxon names are used for rohirrim, I wonder what kind of names would the dunlendings have; how similar that should be to the rohirric names. Maybe ancient german names? Or do they sound too similar to anglo-saxon names?http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/ger-anci.php

The other thing I maybe should know about is the relationship of the dunlendings and the rohirrim. I imagine that in the Fourth Age they'd be in peace but still wary (or even hostile) towards each other and there's be no love between the peoples. Do you guys agree/disagree?

And I promise I won't start discussing with Nogrod in this inn..

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 09:08 AM

Elempi, when and how is the next day going to start, and who opens it?I'll get a post up today.

Is Lin going to be back?Yes.

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 09:12 AM

Congrats to the new Rohanians!Seconded! :)

- I think my character has been attending the fair and seeks just a place to overnight to begin with. I think it would be too simple, if he would just come in and ask for work (and somehow just happening to be kind of a right person needed). I believe we can come up with something to make him stay for awhile. Maybe tomorrow, there would be some construction work requiring someone who knows how to handle carpenter's tools, maybe you would need an extra man at arms tomorrow for some reason, maybe something else...?I'd like you to hold off until this new Day begins, please. It's going to be 20 Days later than the last one: three whole weeks. It would be difficult to have your character show up one night, intending to be there for only one Night and then find himself there 20 Days later in the next post. That would mean a different bit of background than the horse fair, but I think it would be easier to come up with a plausible difference that way than the other. Okay?

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 09:19 AM

As you might see from pio's list, I'm now allowed to post in Rohan (if I dare to). I would like to get my character in quite soon.Welcome, Lommy.

Just a couple things.

Anguirel is already writing a Dunlending outcast. And there are a lot of other outcasts already on this thread. Please come up with an alternative, as that particular background choice is getting a little over-used. I could suggest a couple other ideas, and the other players would be more than happy to share ideas they may have, if you like, I'm sure.

A female character would be fine, but I'd really appreciate it if you could avoid a noblewoman or poverty stricken or runaway, as those two things are already in the Eorling mead hall twice each. I realize I'm asking you to be creative, but hey, that's what this is about, eh? ;)

I suppose a Dunlending would still be okay, but not a runaway or outcast, or former one of these. You could take your lead from Anguirel, who has decided to go with a Celtic rootedness for Dunlendings, which I think is a very believable conjecture.

The Rohirrim are to the Dunlendings as conquerors and victorious invaders and controllers of recently lost land. So there is animosity on both sides towards each other, since the Rohirrim believe that they only invaded Dunland to rid themselves of those who had invaded them in the first place.

And I promise I won't start discussing with Nogrod in this inn..Hmmm.... some kind of background I don't know about, apparently. Care to enlighten? ;)

Thinlómien

05-12-2006, 09:50 AM

Thanks, LMP for information and welcome.

Apparently I should look around more carefully...

You told Nogrod that he could play a craftsman and I wouldn't mind taking the advice myself. A little bit individualistic female carpenter from a well-to-do craftsman family? No runaway, no outcast, no noblewoman nor poverty stricken. :) My character could be a Rohir or a Dunlending, either'd be fine with me.

As I'm not having great ideas, only good/acceptable ones, those willing to give me ideas are very welcome to do so.

One more question: how old are the people in the inn? I wouldn't mind bringing a new perspective to the inn by taking a person from a rare age group.

Hmmm.... some kind of background I don't know about, apparently. Care to enlighten? ;) My and Nogrod's characters (both Beornings) met in the Green Dragon Inn and started discussing. Result: an overlong debate about hostilities between their families, started in early February is still going on and shows no signs of ending. The funniest of it all is that we don't know even ourselves what really has happened, we just make it up as our characters discuss/dispute. But we're not going to establish such an inside quarrel in this inn...

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-12-2006, 09:55 AM

We have a lot of the younger generation. Watching this is occasionally like watching Papa Eodwine take care of a bunch of fumbling kids. And welcome everybody new.

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 02:17 PM

One more question: how old are the people in the inn? I wouldn't mind bringing a new perspective to the inn by taking a person from a rare age group.Please, everybody, supply ages. I'm not sure myself on all of them. Eodwine is 41 and Falco Boffin is 53. Garreth & Harreld the Smiths are 35.

Here's a post with
character descriptions (http://www.forums.barrowdowns.com./showpost.php?p=448815&postcount=93) which will need to be updated once you and Nogrod decide who you're writing.

Anguirel

05-12-2006, 02:33 PM

People have described Manawyth as a "youth", but I intended him to be in his mid-thirties, sort of thing, just about old enough to have fought at the Hornburg when very young and to have experienced all the reprisals since.

Bear in mind he probably doesn't know how old he is himself, precisely.

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 02:35 PM

Okay, Anguirel, now what? Great post, by the way. :)

I could have Eodwine hold court on that 20th Day, hoping against hope that Manawyth somehow shows up. You decide whether he does or not. Could make Eorling life interesting for Manawyth and other Dunlendings in town..... Hmm......

I'll post some time today for the new Day.

Anguirel

05-12-2006, 02:44 PM

I was thinking Manawyth could while away some time in Robin Hoodery and woodsmanship, spot of Eadric the Cild, Hereward the Wake, you know the drill, till some soldiers recapture him and drag him back for trial-on the twentieth day. Would that work?

He's currently headed out of town in a big way...

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 02:56 PM

Folwren

05-12-2006, 03:00 PM

The Eorling Mead Hall is hardly in any state to hold a trial at...at least it wasn't twenty days previously, and it's not like those twenty days have been easy or given a lot of time to fix it up.

I think I put Thornden's age at 25 on my character's description bio, but I'm not entirely positive. I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off now, so I dont' have time to go check.

Elempi, I'm thinking about introducing my sister ... Thornden's sister into the game sometime this day. I'll do it after the trial, probably. Will that be alright?

-- Folwren

Firefoot

05-12-2006, 03:10 PM

Leof is 16.

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 03:40 PM

The Eorling Mead Hall is hardly in any state to hold a trial at...at least it wasn't twenty days previously, and it's not like those twenty days have been easy or given a lot of time to fix it up.I'm leaving it up to Thornden to see that the builders do a good job. Eodwine will be having words with him if there is still no basic hall with a roof by the end of 20 days!

Elempi, I'm thinking about introducing my sister ... Thornden's sister into the game sometime this day. I'll do it after the trial, probably. Will that be alright?That'd be fine.

Ain't no need for a Gob and Twiddle with all these characters to keep things busy... think I'll hold onto them for some later day and time....

Folwren

05-12-2006, 03:52 PM

I'm leaving it up to Thornden to see that the builders do a good job. Eodwine will be having words with him if there is still no basic hall with a roof by the end of 20 days!

Oh. Well, that's kind of stiff, but I guess it'll have to make do.

-- Folwren

Nogrod

05-12-2006, 03:58 PM

Answers and questions...

- In the OtF I played a retired rider of Rohan (a rider of Croacht - the biggest Rohanian city in Wold - so not one of the real Eored anyhow). So I wouldn't be so keen to make another 40-year-old warrior-guy in this, as I'll be a man of arms here too: two veteran soldiers in a row is quite unimaginative RPG'ing... But if the other people are too young for the game's purpose, I might come up with being in the middle twenties to early thirties. You just tell me the age, and I'll put up with it. 20 is ok., as is 35... (I'll come up with suitable background stories with these as is required) If needs be, I could also play a gammer, but then my character would be less a man of arms and more of a carpenter...

- I will settle easily to the +20 days schedule (game-time), do not worry about that. I'll just come up with some other explanation of him being there. But still I ask, whether you would think it better for my character to be summoned to the Mead Hall by some authority (Form's character already was that way, so maybe something different with mine?) or is he just coming by - and then staying because of the circumstances? I think coming up with the reason to stay for my character (with no intention of staying in the beginning) during the day would be nice gaming - as we would try to come up with it - and then someone hitting the right key...

- I happen to be Lommy's father... :D And really. If Lommy's character also is a carpenter...? Wooops!
Well, I think we can make it this time, not to stuck in these overlong discussions with ourselves. We just got jammed in the GD, as the storyline we were building up was just too complicated to unfold in the GD-purposes (I think it would be more Gondor-style of a plot, being opened in a year (RL) or something) Just to you others: do not let us loose in this game! :p

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-12-2006, 04:20 PM

Saeryn is 18 (so obviously so is Degas).

Celuien

05-12-2006, 04:44 PM

Garstan is 35.
Garmund is 9.
Léoðern a.k.a. Short 'n Squirmy is 5. :D

Kath

05-12-2006, 04:55 PM

Um, I don't really know how old Kara is. She just sort of, turned up, without much of a history! I suppose she'd be around 18-20 ish, something like that anyway.

Formendacil

05-12-2006, 06:43 PM

Náin is 53- so rather young for a Dwarf (probably about 25-30ish were he a Man), but old enough to have fought at Erebor, and to have accumulated a goodly amount of experience as a sculptor.

(Oh, and Elempi: you will need to add Náin as well when you add Nogrod and Thinlomien's characters to the list.)

Personally, I'd like to see another old man around the place. Marenil is pretty much alone in that respect. Another person or two in that age group would be nice.

But that's just me, and as Nogrod said, that about nixes him being a guardsman as well as a carpenter.

Orual

05-12-2006, 08:42 PM

This is new! Can an old friend just jump in, or do I need to wait until a new day starts?

You leave for a little while and they change everything on you! :D

littlemanpoet

05-12-2006, 08:58 PM

This is new! Can an old friend just jump in, or do I need to wait until a new day starts?

You leave for a little while and they change everything on you! :D
Wait until the new Day, which will start by midnight my time.

I just got to thinking: How about Lommy's and Nogrod's characters being wife and husband? That hasn't been done. Everybody who comes seems to not be hooked up. Might be fun having a married couple in the place. What do you think?

Orual, what do you have in mind for a character? Just curious.

Orual

05-12-2006, 09:15 PM

I'm still wrapping up finals over here, so I won't jump in right away. I'll just keep myself posted to when days begin and end.

Anyway, I was thinking about bringing my old character, Rie, back...but, when all is said and done with finals, I might think up a new character to make a fresh start. I'll check with you before I introduce anyone.

Thinlómien

05-13-2006, 07:23 AM

I just got to thinking: How about Lommy's and Nogrod's characters being wife and husband? That hasn't been done. Everybody who comes seems to not be hooked up. Might be fun having a married couple in the place. What do you think?That would be insane... But might even work. We just have to arrange it the way that they don't have to talk with each other too much, since I would really rather not have more than little discussion with Noggie in this inn.

Nogrod could play a traveling carpenter and I could play his wife, bored with his husband's work that takes them from one place to another. The couple wouldn't maybe have a loving marriage, but they'd get along with each other though they'd find each other extremely boring...? Well, I'd better hear Nogrod's opinion before visioning more.

littlemanpoet

05-13-2006, 03:03 PM

Hee hee! :D Any brood to run around and play with Garstan's two?

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-13-2006, 03:35 PM

Oh I would love it with more kids around! Degas loves children and Saeryn's fond of them also. Any kids would be spoiled by my twins.

Nogrod

05-14-2006, 05:09 AM

This is looking nice!

A pair bored of each others company & stressed by their hyperactive child! Just great stuff!

We'll deal this together (me & Lommy) and come forwards to the Mead Hall after you change the day. I guess the little brat could be our common npc-like of character (carry-along character or something).

EDIT: You seem to have changed the day already. Sorry. We'll be in there within a couple of days (RL).

Taralphiel

05-14-2006, 07:28 PM

Just about my latest post - I hope all the details I've got for the current day are correct. Just poke me if they aren't.

Also, I hope I got Thornden's thoughts right, Foley . I'm being a tad impatient (chanelling Lys, I suppose! *giggles*) so I'm looking forward to him getting out and meeting people!

Tara :)

Folwren

05-14-2006, 08:41 PM

Tara, I may get back with you conserning your last post and the use of Thornden, but not tonight. I've got to go now. It's fine, so don't get worried. . .there just might be a few little things I'll ask for a change. But I'll PM you tomorrow concerning it. :)

-- Folwren

littlemanpoet

05-15-2006, 07:18 PM

Sorry, RL has just gotten really busy crazy the last 3 days and it's all I can do to keep DWWW going. I'll try and get something up as soon as I can. Please feel free to post before I do.

Folwren

05-16-2006, 07:56 AM

Everyone, Tara and I've gone over her last post, so it's edited a bit, if you wanted to go back and read it. :) Just thought I'd say so.

-- Folwren

Thinlómien

05-17-2006, 09:49 AM

My and Nogrod's basic idea is that we're a traveling family, his character is a carpenter and my character (who is half-Dunlending) could be used to doing maid work etc. Our characters are probably aged around 25-30, since their son is around 5-10 years old.

We (our characters) will arrive tomorrow at earliest and probably. Before next week anyway.

Nogrod

05-17-2006, 04:37 PM

We (our characters) will arrive tomorrow at earliest and probably. Before next week anyway.
...and will enter in to the middle of all the hassle of Eodwine's first court-day (while Eodwine's patron is busy writing kills to the WW)! :D

Folwren

05-18-2006, 01:59 PM

What will Thornden be doing with himself throughout today? Will he be with Eodwine the entire time he's up at court, or will be stay at the Mead Hall most of the time and only go to court for part of the day when he's needed (if he's needed, that is). I am guessing that he and Eodwine would have already discussed all this, but I myself am not sure of what would be happening.

-- Folwren

Nogrod

05-18-2006, 02:53 PM

What will Thornden be doing with himself throughout today? Will he be with Eodwine the entire time he's up at court, or will be stay at the Mead Hall most of the time and only go to court for part of the day when he's needed (if he's needed, that is).

And would that court be assembled physically at the Mead Hall? That would be a nice bit of information anyways to our family coming in a couple of days (RL) from now... That information would change our narration about coming forwards somewhat (is there a mighty hassle around the place, or would it be calm).

Formendacil

05-18-2006, 03:01 PM

And would that court be assembled physically at the Mead Hall? That would be a nice bit of information anyways to our family coming in a couple of days (RL) from now... That information would change our narration about coming forwards somewhat (is there a mighty hassle around the place, or would it be calm).

I've been assuming so... or else right outside it. After all, the Mead Hall is to Eodwine what Meduseld is to Eomer.

As to Thornden: I'm no expert on Rohirric, Anglo-Saxon, Viking, or any customs of this nature in general, but I would imagine that a Steward would be present at the court with the Lord... though I'm not entirely sure why. Just my vote and feeling, though...

In both cases, I guess it's up to LMP though.

Nogrod

05-18-2006, 03:06 PM

I've been assuming so... or else right outside it.
-------------------------------
As to Thornden: I'm no expert on Rohirric, Anglo-Saxon, Viking, or any customs of this nature in general, but I would imagine that a Steward would be present at the court with the Lord
I think both of your hunches are right - at least they feel so. I just came to wonder about the first one because of some posts here, even though I thought that it obviously would be at the Mead Hall - and of the second, I just can't see, what else a steward would be doing on a day like that...

Folwren

05-18-2006, 03:35 PM

Formendacil

05-18-2006, 10:10 PM

I've been under the impression that the court might be held at Meduseld, but I realize that I'm not sure of that, either.

Yes, it would make sense that Thornden, as steward, would be with Eodwine at court, but it's not absolutely certain that Thornden is steward. That's one of the things that has to be discovered.

If the court were to be held at Meduseld, it would be Eomer presiding, not Eodwine. After all, Meduseld means literally "Mead Hall", and is the King's Mead Hall. Eodwine has his own, and ought to be using it- unless LMP plans to use the "it's not quite finished, so King Eomer has kindly granted temporary use of Meduseld for Middle Emnet business".

I totally forgot about Thornden's as-yet-unconfirmed official standing... but that would seem to me to mean even more so that he ought to be in attendence... and isn't the deadline for that trial period coming up? If so, would Eodwine be making the announcement now? If so, then Thornden would definitely want to attend, since a formal occassion like this would be the just the time to announce it.

littlemanpoet

05-19-2006, 06:55 PM

Eodwine will hold court at the Eorling Mead Hall. Shortly, I hope.

All retainers will be there with him, not least because they find out their fate after a month of service. That includes Thornden.

Formy has it exactly right.

littlemanpoet

05-19-2006, 07:24 PM

Perhaps it was common for ladies of this land to wear men's garb and serve in roles taken by commoner women at home, yet he did not see it as being so.I could have sworn she put on a gown this new Day.

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-19-2006, 11:19 PM

Continuity... who pays attention to that? :rolleyes:

I'll go fix it.

Kath

05-20-2006, 06:06 AM

All retainers will be there with him, not least because they find out their fate after a month of service. That includes Thornden.
What about Kara, her too? Also what are we doing about Frodides? Originally she was supposed to be leaving but so many people make use of her now it might be worth keeping her on. But that would mean the Hall has two cooks, though that isn't a bad thing.

JennyHallu

05-20-2006, 02:42 PM

Really it semed to me like Frodides has been retired for a while now...and I can't see Eodwine just kicking her out. And Kara and Frodides have been developing a mentor/mentee relationship, or so it's seemed to me.

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-20-2006, 02:52 PM

Jenny, how do you want to work Lin and Farahil's meeting?

JennyHallu

05-20-2006, 02:57 PM

Umm...is tomorrow an option? No time to think about it today...going to the opera!!! :D

Feanor of the Peredhil

05-20-2006, 03:32 PM

Of course. Not a problem.

littlemanpoet

05-21-2006, 05:56 AM

I've left openings for each of you to do a post featuring your character which ends with coming into the Hall. Please feel free to write one. I'll give it a day for that to happen, on Monday night real time we begin the court proceedings.

What about Kara, her too? Also what are we doing about Frodides? Originally she was supposed to be leaving but so many people make use of her now it might be worth keeping her on. But that would mean the Hall has two cooks, though that isn't a bad thing.We can arrange it that Frodides stays on, and that you are her primary but not only writer. That means Kara and Frodides are also expected at court. Sound good?

Kath

05-21-2006, 07:32 AM

Ok that's fine. Um, excuse the idiocy here, but where is Court actually being held? I got confused over that.

littlemanpoet

05-21-2006, 11:46 AM

Ok that's fine. Um, excuse the idiocy here, but where is Court actually being held? I got confused over that.
At the Eorling Mead Hall. Under the new roof.

Thinlómien

05-21-2006, 12:09 PM

...on Monday night real time we begin the court proceedings.LMP, what timezone you're in?

Me and Noggie are posting our characters enter a bit later than we thought, at Monday afternoon. (+3 GMT.)

littlemanpoet

05-21-2006, 12:29 PM

LMP, what timezone you're in?

Me and Noggie are posting our characters enter a bit later than we thought, at Monday afternoon. (+3 GMT.)
Oh. You guys are in Scandinavia? Finland? My Monday night is equivalent to your Tuesday morning, wee hours, I believe. I'm at American Eastern Daylight, which I believe is GMT -5. Is that wrong? Anyway, I think that if you're where I think you are, you're six hours ahead of me.

Kath

05-21-2006, 12:39 PM

Cheers lmp, I'll get Kara and Frodides in there some time later tonight or tomorrow.

Hey Lommy and Nogrod - go Finland, woo! Now I do want to live there!

Thinlómien

05-21-2006, 12:39 PM

Oh. You guys are in Scandinavia? Finland? My Monday night is equivalent to your Tuesday morning, wee hours, I believe. I'm at American Eastern Daylight, which I believe is GMT -5. Is that wrong? Anyway, I think that if you're where I think you are, you're six hours ahead of me. In Finland, yes. So when we post the court hasn't begun yet, but the people have started to assemble there already?

Hey Lommy and Nogrod - go Finland, woo! Now I do want to live there! I did say I should write the "Kath, remember not to ever emigrate to Finland" to my sig. You apparently have a poor memory. :rolleyes: ;)

littlemanpoet

05-23-2006, 09:33 AM

Formy: "of bother genders"? :D

Formendacil

05-23-2006, 03:06 PM

Formy: "of bother genders"? :D

Oh bother genders!

I guess I'll go fix that, then...

littlemanpoet

05-26-2006, 04:03 PM

Is Alcarillo around? Should I just write a post and move on to the next bloke? Or move on to the next bloke until I hear from Alc?

Idea! Who wants to be up next?

Alcarillo

05-26-2006, 05:35 PM

Yikes! I hadn't read that last post! Must've missed it somehow. :o

Sorry! I'll start writing a post pronto!

Nogrod

05-27-2006, 03:52 PM

Nice to see that the court has started the proceedings, even though they go with an fairly easy pace... ;)

But no problem. Our little family waits outside for the day's proceedings to end before actively coming in or trying to engage with anyone (but possible NPC's we come to invent if the court takes time). But I can't promise the same thing about Cnebba though... he's a little kid blessed with curiosity and might go about finding out things. :)

Feel free to come forwards though. Mainly I was thinking about Garstan's children who might get bored during the day and possibly meet Cnebba somewhere around or something...

piosenniel

06-01-2006, 08:17 AM

NOTICE:

Closing the doors on The Green Dragon Inn

The Green Dragon Inn opened in November of 2002, under the guidance of Dwarin Thunderhammer. Since then it has undergone eleven incarnations and boasts well over 7,000 posts.

In April of 2003, The Green Dragon Inn Part 3, a new Innkeeper was introduced, Amanaduial the archer (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=194817&postcount=323).

It has been an interesting and enjoyable four years, reading the posts of those who first cut their RPG-teeth, so to speak, in The Green Dragon. Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves, Men, Wargs, Orcs, and even a Balrog have passed through the Inn’s doors.

Now those doors are going to close on this last incarnation of The Green Dragon.

A new Innkeeper for the Shire, Folwren, will offer the hospitality of a new inn – The Golden Perch in Stock, Eastfarthing, the Shire.

> - - - < ~*~ > - - - <

The Green Dragon will remain open until the end of this June. Please wrap up any storylines you have in progress (or perhaps think about working them into an independent RPG proposal along with your co-writers).

The Golden Perch Inn is now open to take on players.

Its timeline will be much earlier than that of the present Green Dragon Inn. There will be a Discussion Thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12878) to accompany the new inn. And each writer for the Golden Perch will need to submit a brief Character Description form to the Discussion Thread when they make their first post to the Inn thread

Please do give a look at the The Golden Perch Inn (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12876). And think about designing a new character to come in and take part in the storyline.

~*~ piosenniel

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-01-2006, 10:56 PM

Er... what's the date in the game? Because if it's past May 1st, we've passed Saeryn and Degas's birthday and they're now 19.

Formendacil

06-02-2006, 01:22 AM

Well... I've gone and interjected Náin into the now-noisy proceedings. Dwarves are plain-spoken, or so 'twould seem of this one. I hope I've captured Degas and Garstan aright- and I hope that by dropping a potential bomb with the mention of Degas/Saeryn's family into the mix that I'm not disrupting things TOO much.

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-02-2006, 07:55 AM

I'm unsure how to proceed. LMP? Leave it for Eodwine to react how he will? Saeryn certainly wishes she had the One Ring so as to become invisible. Degas... well... he's a protective brother that just tried to pick a fight with a man that could easily win and had his right to do so questioned as well as the sharp edge of his words blunted.

littlemanpoet

06-02-2006, 09:03 AM

Er... what's the date in the game? Because if it's past May 1st, we've passed Saeryn and Degas's birthday and they're now 19.
It's April 24 game time. And here we are in June already! :eek: We're going to have to figure out a way to move this forward maybe an entire quarter of a year pretty soon!

I loved your bit, Formy :) That bit about an older brother is one that Degas may choose to, or not to, address, depending on how much revenge he cares to have dished his way from Saeryn, I suspect.

I hope I've answered your question, Fea. Post up!

EDIT: Also, I'm aware that having this so centered on Eodwine's court day, the current plot may be causing a lot of you to wait longer than you care to for a chance to post in. I think that after the Saeryn bit, there's still Thornden/Marenil, Æðehild, and Manawyth to deal with, and those could take a while yet. Sorry! I'm trying to think of a way to open things out. I suppose Kath could post anytime she likes since Kara's been sent off to the kitchen. Léof could excuse himself to the stables, I suppose, and Garwine could have action at the door with the milling crowd outside. Other than that, feel free to have your characters do with Formy did. Butt in! (but not too much I hope, or Eodwine will be the laughing stock of Edoras and his first court day will be the talk of the town for eleventy one months!

JennyHallu

06-02-2006, 10:46 AM

Don't skip the story forward artificially, please!!! Huge jumps make realistic character development nearly impossible...I, for one, don't mind if the story is not the same as real life time.

Formendacil

06-02-2006, 11:50 AM

:eek: Don't skip the story forward artificially, please!!! Huge jumps make realistic character development nearly impossible...I, for one, don't mind if the story is not the same as real life time.

April is also such a nice time of the year, I don't mind at all enjoying it. :p

Oh- and to Garstan's Keeper (my mind is temporarily absent and I've totally forgotten who you are), I hope the borrowing of your character isn't a problem. 'twas appreciated, anyway.

Celuien

06-02-2006, 12:22 PM

Oh- and to Garstan's Keeper (my mind is temporarily absent and I've totally forgotten who you are), I hope the borrowing of your character isn't a problem. 'twas appreciated, anyway.
Am I so forgettable? :p :D

Not a problem at all. Those were his thoughts on the matter.

Formendacil

06-02-2006, 02:01 PM

Am I so forgettable? :p :D

Hardly. But forgotting who belongs to whom is quite natural when one is still working at remembering who is whom.

Not a problem at all. Those were his thoughts on the matter.

Delighted to hear it.

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-02-2006, 06:13 PM

My weekend is guaranteed to be very busy. No more posting from me for at least a few days.

littlemanpoet

06-02-2006, 09:49 PM

I'll post something up in the morning. Dog tired right now.

I wish to keep the game time from lagging. I'd prefer to keep it with calendar time, at least to some degree. By having entered the Eorling Mead Hall, you have (perhaps silently) agreed to work with this idea of jumping days. That said, such jumps can certainly be discussed and any difficulties ironed out and resolved to the satisfaction (I would hope) of all. Dispensing with time jumps is not going to happen.

Folwren

06-03-2006, 09:46 PM

Elempi, I have a question (or two) before I have Thornden answer.

Are you wanting Jenny's character Marenil to have the stewardship - so it's an older person? - and Thornden only taking pretty much the almsbudsman job and other work, like a regular man at arms or something, around the hall when he doesn't have to go out gathering dues? Or are we going to go ahead and have Thornden take both? I'd like to know before I have him respond. Or. . .you COULD not tell me and we could have Thornden be the first person who Eodwine says, "No, sorry, you didn't do well enough, I can't give you the job." But I would really not prefer that, though I wouldn't be surprised if you decided not to tell me and just said "Let's see how it plays out" although for real, you already have in mind what Eodwine's going to say and do.

Anyway, it's up to you. I'll write a post tomorrow, or whenever you get your answer.

Or. . .well, I already know how he would answer. I'll risk Thornden's embarrassment, write the post tomorrow whether you reply or not, and you can decide if you want an older chap or not.

littlemanpoet

06-04-2006, 05:47 AM

Are you wanting Jenny's character Marenil to have the stewardship - so it's an older person?Yes, we're sticking with the idea of Thornden as almbudsman and Marenil as steward. That'll free Thornden up to (I think) what you intended him to be in the first place.

Nogrod

06-04-2006, 10:30 AM

I agree with Jenny that we should not be overhasty with the calendar. If the court takes some tome, then it takes. Our characters (lommy's & mine) can wait at the yard - and Cnebba surely will come up with something... :D

Celuien

06-04-2006, 11:33 AM

*Raises hand nervously*

The court proceedings seem awfully important. And there are some other issues *coughDegasSaeryncough* that would realistically come up in detail as soon as possible after the crowd currently present dispersed. I wouldn't mind getting a little out of sync, at least for this special occassion. It would make a bigger jump for changing the time again, but my humble opinion is that it would be nice to finish off court and related business before moving on to real time. If only to give these bombshells that Eodwine's been dropping the attention they deserve. :)

JennyHallu

06-04-2006, 11:43 AM

Plus I'd like some time to work on the Lin/Degas relationship and explore how that's changed since the kidnapping. That may take more than just the court proceedings...the evening after would be the very least I could use.

Firefoot

06-04-2006, 11:46 AM

And Aedhel and Leof need to have some kind of making-up.

Folwren

06-04-2006, 12:28 PM

Post placed.

Elempi, Thornden is also curious about what is going to be happening to Lys once the boy is healed and able to get onto his feet. Would this time at the court, before he steps down, be a good time to ask whatever question he has? Or should he wait until later to bring up that topic?

-- Folwren

littlemanpoet

06-04-2006, 01:50 PM

Wait until later, Folwren, please.

Okay, the consensus seems to be to have this day go a full day, which I intended all along anyway. Jenny's request to have the next Day be the next DAY, now, that will have to be a shortened up day, posting-wise, but I'm okay with that.

So the upshot is that we need to tie up some loose ends on that second Day. If you could all work toward that, it would help; that way character development can progress without too much of a feeling of disconnect.

Please don't see this 'skipped time' thing as an abysmal blockade to what you are trying to do, but as a 'problem of the form' that needs to be worked with rather than against. It's kind of like poetry in rhyme and meter, or like the need for a children's book to have shorter chapters. Limitations to the form can actually AID instead of detract, but we have to LET it do that. I hope that makes enough sense. At least I know what I mean.... :rolleyes:

Folwren

06-04-2006, 04:42 PM

Well, I think I understand what you're saying.

I don't think I have any loose ends to tie up save one, but if it doesn't look like I can resolve it very nicely with only my thinking on it, then I might PM you about it and see what your opinion on the matter is and what I can do with it and the time change.

And I mentioned that I might bring my sister into the Hall this day. Well, I think I'll skip on that for this day. It seems that it's going to be busy the whole time. If it turns out that there is some time freed up, I might. . .

-- Folwren

Celuien

06-04-2006, 04:56 PM

Please don't see this 'skipped time' thing as an abysmal blockade to what you are trying to do, but as a 'problem of the form' that needs to be worked with rather than against. It's kind of like poetry in rhyme and meter, or like the need for a children's book to have shorter chapters. Limitations to the form can actually AID instead of detract, but we have to LET it do that. I hope that makes enough sense. At least I know what I mean....
Understood. :) I think it's an interesting way to run the Hall. Sort of nice to go through the seasons along with the characters. But there are just a lot of loose ends for this particular day that I think make it worth holding off on the time change.

Oh, and I don't know if Garstan will have loose ends with Eodwine because I don't know what the Eorl is planning yet... :D There are definitely some loose ends between my characters and Linduial, but those might be better handled on the AiE thread. Jenny knows what I'm talking about. (A surprise. ;))

littlemanpoet

06-04-2006, 06:35 PM

Oh, and I don't know if Garstan will have loose ends with Eodwine because I don't know what the Eorl is planning yet...Actually, Garstan's "court date" will be the next month rather than this, because Garstan and kids came in the middle of everyone else's "month-long review". I don't recall that any kind of formal time period was even set up for Garstan, was there?
:confused:

Celuien

06-04-2006, 06:39 PM

I don't recall that any kind of formal time period was even set up for Garstan, was there?

No. There wasn't. He sort of came in unexpectedly and wound up staying at the Hall to work. We never really formalized what was going on with him. I thought he might have a court date for that reason. Up to you, of course. I don't know what the proper custom would be. And I don't even know what transpired during the events of the rescue, other than taking that knife wound for Eodwine. :)

littlemanpoet

06-04-2006, 06:49 PM

Ah. Good point. I think a little exchange between Eodwine and Garstan would be most appropriate on court day. I shall arrange it, as soon as Jenny speaks for Marenil....

Celuien

06-04-2006, 06:58 PM

Sounds good.

JennyHallu

06-06-2006, 06:38 AM

I'm sorry, LMP, I know you're fond of it...but this time-jump thing is an abysmal blockade and I'm frustrated with working against it, for several reasons, and these are a major factor in why my post for Marenil is a long time coming. You can call it a limitation of the form if you please, but if I wanted to write haiku, I would. Here, I will:

Elempi's time jumps
mean my characters are not
people whom I know.

Or another:

If I have a plan
that is my own, I must weave
a separate tale.

Here's one:

What happens next day?
Elempi informs me it
has no importance.

There is a major difference between a format and a stumbling block. A format is just that, a form, within which infinite creativity is possible. Poetry in rhyme and meter is not a stumbling block, it is a form. I can say what I wish, it's a matter of phrasing.

Your belief that children's books require shorter chapters is an insult to all the children who read Harry Potter, not to mention all the people here who refused to adhere to such restrictive ideas of their capabilities.

I am having a hard time writing with my characters because I do not know what happens to them. I can not say how Lin has grown and changed because I don't know. That story isn't done yet, and your "problems of form" mean I can't start my own storylines in this Hall. There are characters with which I cannot interact without ruining what I wished to be surprises in my own storyline. I cannot make any further plans, because I have no way of knowing when you will skip time ahead nor how far you will do so.

Yes, this is a rant. I am irritated and frustrated. Please do not belittle my frustrations by telling yourself you've created a great "challenge" for us writers. It's not challenging, it's annoying.

Feelings expressed may not be the shared opinion of anyone other than myself. You'd have to ask others.

Folwren

06-06-2006, 07:59 AM

Before anyone else errupts, I'd like to say real quick that whoever might get mad on account of Jenny's last post should all take a very deep breath and not loose their temper. I'd like to remind people that this game is being played for fun and I don't like games wherein people get mad at each other. There can be differences of opinion, and I think they can be made out peaceably.

Jenny, don't get mad. I'm not saying you should not have said what you just wrote at all.

Elempi, don't get mad, either. Consider what she's saying and try not to take it personally. Perhaps your plan of keeping up with the real date won't work after all?

I refuse to say what I think on the subject because I think if I got started, I'd end up like Jenny - getting frustrated and irritated - and I won't do it. I'll go with whatever is decided and be happy, so long as people don't bite each other's heads off in the process of deciding.

-- Folwren

JennyHallu

06-06-2006, 08:26 AM

I solemnly swear that everyone's heads are still attached to their bodies, and shall remain so.

I am frustrated, and angry, but I am trying to stifle the angry. It's difficult, I'm a short-tempered Scottish firebrand, with tendencies to anger in long slow simmers punctuated by violent eruptions. My family history has records of epic feuds on both sides. Trust me, it sounds way more romantic than it is.

I mean everything I say, however. I have been thinking this through and trying to come up with a solution for several days. I have also tried to be subtle in my concerns, and it doesn't work. This is a group effort, and I would really like to see our Innkeeper put more weight on group input.

I'll hush now, and see what plays out. But I will put more effort into remaining calm. We're all adults here, anyway (or nearly there, for some of us).

I'm rather pleased with my haiku though. :rolleyes: ;) :D

EDIT: Folwren, I respect your desire to avoid conflict here, but I think you should still say where you stand on the issue if you have any preference at all, even if you never mention it again. I know I am, and trust LMP is, mature enough not to take personal offense at disagreement, and I think it's important that everyone weighs in.

Firefoot

06-06-2006, 08:34 AM

I guess I fall on both sides of the argument. In some ways, I like the time jumps because realistically, character development doesn't happen so quickly on a day to day basis... think about your own lives. Interesting stuff doesn't happen every day. In RPG's like the inns, just doing every day doesn't work very well because we really are working in these characters everyday lives - not like other RPG's where you're in the middle of a journey or war or whatnot. In everyday life, people just don't change that quickly - change takes time. For example, I had (have, I guess) a character in the Green Dragon that fell in love - but this was something of an awkward situation since the whole scenario took place over the course of about three days. As another example more pertinent to the thread, what about Undome's characters? Personally, I found them a great addition, but if we did do a day-to-day sort of thing, we really wouldn't be seeing much of them because honestly, they can't be away from their farm all the time, and they weren't just going to follow Thornden to the Hall the next day.

On the other hand, I think that trying to stick to real time is a little unrealistic as well. We just don't write fast enough to get all the things that need to be said and done said and done. We're constantly having to catch up on missed time, and in that time nothing really big can happen because then you're trying to coordinate activities of several characters in flashback and not really moving forward at all. That's not saying there won't be times when larger time jumps won't be appropriate - actually, even without the RL time consideration, I could see one coming up once all these loose ends are tied up, as long as people don't go on creating more loose ends (now there's the tricky part, isn't it?).

I do think Jenny made a very valid point when she said this:I am having a hard time writing with my characters because I do not know what happens to them. I can not say how Lin has grown and changed because I don't know. That story isn't done yet, and your "problems of form" mean I can't start my own storylines in this Hall. There are characters with which I cannot interact without ruining what I wished to be surprises in my own storyline. I cannot make any further plans, because I have no way of knowing when you will skip time ahead nor how far you will do so. By trying to write Lin's story both here and in AiE, I could see where that's definitely a bit difficult. A lot of times, you might have some idea where your character is going in an RPG, but a lot of it depends on other characters as well, and it's a sort of "we get there when we get there" thing. Because if you plan it all out ahead of time and know exactly where the characters are going, what's the point of continuing to write the tale? I like it when my characters surprise me. It's one of the reasons I'm glad I left Leof out of it (other than the fact that I really don't see him having much place there, but whatever).

So that's my take on it. I don't think we should forego the time jumps, but I'm also not sure that we necessarily need to stick to RL time.

Celuien

06-06-2006, 08:47 AM

Another fence sitter. My position is similar to Firefoot's, especially since my characters are involved in the AiE surprise...

But, please, everyone, let's not forget to have fun with the process here. :) We can make things work! I'm sure.

JennyHallu

06-06-2006, 09:08 AM

Firefoot has really elaborated (and calmly, too!) most of my biggest concerns. I don't necessarily mean that I want to play every day, dawn to dusk, no matter what. But while not every day is significant, more are than our rush through the year, game-time, reflects. I don't mind skipping a week here and there, but months are too much. And skipping months for no conceivable reason other than to keep up with some artificial real-time thing does bother me.

And it is a MAJOR concern that we can't introduce our own storylines unless we are willing to own a game. Yes, I agreed to do so in this instance, but I expressed my concerns with doing so before I did, and they still stand. I chose to run the story because I could make it more extensive in the format of a second game, and I'm putting very real effort into it, despite the lack of interest or push from many of the players (those playing evil characters there, you're great!) It still bugs me, though, that I ran the idea of the kidnapping by LMP before I did it, and no mention was made then that I would need to be willing to own a separate game in which to play it out.

But LMP also wanted to push the smaller (in scope, not importance) matter of Anguirel's capture outside the Hall thread, and I see here a trend that makes me wary of trying to introduce anything new or major concerning my characters. If LMP does not feel any obligation to make time for our storylines, that makes it very difficult to write here.

Anguirel

06-06-2006, 09:10 AM

Time-jumps...well...my only problem with them is that I feel so blasted guilty when I haven't had a chance, or an inclination, to finish a conversation properly, on time. Things do get slightly more deadlined and intense.

But I think Inn characters are different from RPG characters, in a similar way that a long, ongoing regular column is different from a book, sort of thing. At least where my style is concerned, I feel far more able to pick them up and drop them for a bit, in RPG or real time, before taking them up again with some new traits added-eg Manawyth's Rohirric getting better, his acclimatisation to Rohan, that kind of thing.

Celuien

06-06-2006, 09:19 AM

Well, I'd post on AiE, but all of my characters are waiting for an opening. Garstan needs Haleth to take charge (he's the lowest ranking member of the party and won't suggest anything unless Eodwine and Haleth give him permission first) and Leodern needs the spies to arrive.

But back to the Mead Hall...

Folwren

06-06-2006, 11:28 AM

I solemnly swear that everyone's heads are still attached to their bodies, and shall remain so.

Thank you. But for now, it's mostly Elempi's reaction to your post that I'm worried about. You've had your explosion, and being a girl myself, I realize that that's probably the worst that it will get from you, unless Elempi infuriates you in another way.

I am frustrated, and angry, but I am trying to stifle the angry. It's difficult, I'm a short-tempered Scottish firebrand, with tendencies to anger in long slow simmers punctuated by violent eruptions. My family history has records of epic feuds on both sides. Trust me, it sounds way more romantic than it is.

Eh, well, you'll be able to manage, especially since we don't get your real reaction, only that which you choose to type down. ;) We won't see your flushed face, burning eyes, and rigid attitude, nor will we (hopefully) see your first draft of the post you write and then think better of and replace with another one, not quite so fiery.

I mean everything I say, however. I have been thinking this through and trying to come up with a solution for several days. I have also tried to be subtle in my concerns, and it doesn't work. This is a group effort, and I would really like to see our Innkeeper put more weight on group input.

Yes, yes, I believe you. I'm not asking anyone to hide their opinion on the matter if they don't want to, I'm asking them to not loose their heads.

EDIT: Folwren, I respect your desire to avoid conflict here, but I think you should still say where you stand on the issue if you have any preference at all, even if you never mention it again. I know I am, and trust LMP is, mature enough not to take personal offense at disagreement, and I think it's important that everyone weighs in.

No. I said earlier that I refuse. I will not put my weigh in. It's not so much fright of conflict - goodness knows I don't refuse an argument very often - it's just that I don't want to undermine Elempi. I'm not the leader or organizer of this entire thing. If I were, I'd up and say something, but I'm not. It is not to say that I don't think people should voice their opinions, but I think enough people have said something that I don't need to. I can work either way. I'm easy to make happy and I'm not going to add strife. I may quarrel often for real, but once in while I like being the peace maker, and this is going to be one of those times.

So, continue, but be nice. ;)

-- Folwren

littlemanpoet

06-06-2006, 01:13 PM

Wow. Three adversities in one morning and the least important is the most knotty and malign. Least important only because it's not about ultimate destiny nor a person's RL livelihood. Nevertheless important because, even though it's a game, it's real people. Knotty because it's a complex problem. Malign because there's more at work here than just the issues at hand, but that's my problem. The two other adversities I can do little if anything about; this one I can do a lot about, and so it is the most fraught with danger.

First of all, Jenny, I apologize for any insults or offenses that I have caused you. They were not intended. I sympathize with your frustration and forgive your unkindness.

Jenny, I am not the monster, nor enemy, that three days of stewing has probably conjured in your mind (believe me, I know personally what stewing can do to one's thoughts about someone). I'm not mad. Just sad and troubled.

The last time I capitulated to someone regarding a fundamental part of the creative process that I had set up, I lost heart (not meaning to), and my will to keep the thing energized became seriously curtailed. The resulting ennui caused the ultimate demise of the thing. I don't want that here.

The last time I laid down the law and said "deal with it", there was open revolt and voting with feet. I got disgusted and quit. I don't want that here either.

I wish that I had never thought of and suggested starting a sideline thread that runs concurrently with the first thread. It's causing way too many problems. What we're ending up doing with Anguirel's Manawyth situation seems to work better (you'll see soon what I mean). Nevertheless, we have to deal with it, and I don't for a minute envy the position Jenny is in, and would relieve her of it if I could. The only way to do that is to get the thing written and completed, and perhaps ----- perhaps(!) ----- we should halt the proceedings at the main site in order to accomplish that? Just a thought.

I don't necessarily mean that I want to play every day, dawn to dusk, no matter what. But while not every day is significant, more are than our rush through the year, game-time, reflects. I don't mind skipping a week here and there, but months are too much. And skipping months for no conceivable reason other than to keep up with some artificial real-time thing does bother me.I'm quite agreeable with this middle ground approach.

And it is a MAJOR concern that we can't introduce our own storylines unless we are willing to own a game.This isn't something that I insist on.

It still bugs me, though, that I ran the idea of the kidnapping by LMP before I did it, and no mention was made then that I would need to be willing to own a separate game in which to play it out.I'm sorry you took this as some kind of law. You never had to run your own separate game. It was only a suggestion, and one that I thought of only after saying "go ahead if you want" to the kidnapping idea. I have to admit that I wasn't too keen on the idea, but I wasn't going to stop you.

If LMP does not feel any obligation to make time for our storylines, that makes it very difficult to write here.I hope you don't really believe this. It's just not true, and is a rather hurtful thing to have said.

Kath

06-06-2006, 01:27 PM

A suggestion:

If we are in April game time and June RL time, perhaps we could skip forward in two-weekly bursts.

So, we finish up the day at court and jump two weeks ahead. Then 'thinking back' scenes could perhaps be done to show people settling in to their new roles. Here only a few posts would be needed, and Leof could tell Eodwine about his secret (if Firefoot's plan works along those lines) and we could have the introduction of Nogrod and Lommy's characters.

After this we could skip ahead another two weeks and have Nogrod and Lommy's characters interacting with people, simply assuming that they have made their introductions already. Perhaps here Leof could make up with Adhel and Saeryn, Eodwine and Degas can have their conversation about Eodwine's intentions, now that things have calmed down a bit.

That should bring the timelines a little closer without damaging anyones storylines too much, though there would still have to be some compromise.

Jenny - I assume the basic storyline of AiE is that Linduial is freed (whether via rescue or escape I don't know as I've not seen the thread) and returns to the Mead Hall. Therefore for the first section of this time jumping she would presumably be recovering from her ordeal, so you could post her thoughts of being trapped in a comfy room rather than a cell but still trapped or something along those lines, and Marenil's thoughts on looking after her. By the second jump she would be up and about again, and you will be further on in the other thread and will have more of an idea of how she will be afterwards.

What does everyone think?

JennyHallu

06-06-2006, 01:39 PM

If we can go to a more middle ground on time jumps (even if that means the real-time correlation is lost) I would be satisfied. I will certainly not ask that the MH be stopped for my own story; for better or for worse, it is semi-independent right now, and not everyone here is involved there. (Though all are welcome to make cameo posts, if they wish)

I have a couple ideas of how to work around my own personal frustration with defying physics (people in two places at once), and I actually think I'll be taking the easy way out.

I should be able to work with Marenil with no problem, as he's not really in a developing mood ;). Age is a great steadier.

Lin, however, will be recovering from her ordeal by returning home for a while, either with a guard on loan from Lothiriel, or with her brother. She wishes to rest, and has some matters to discuss with her father, but she shall certainly be returning (conveniently after the end of AiE) to a warm welcome, and perhaps with a more former role than anti-marriage visitor. She has matured and grown significantly, but this will allow me to delay revealing precisely how, and let Degas stew over what relationship the two young people might have.

Any questions/objections? If not, I will work out a post this evening for both of my characters.

EDIT: crossed with Kath:

I'd rather jumps be more flexible, but that's something to discuss. However, I think Lommy and Nogrod, since they're already here, shouldn't be delayed 2 weeks.

Kath

06-06-2006, 01:47 PM

I'd rather jumps be more flexible, but that's something to discuss. However, I think Lommy and Nogrod, since they're already here, shouldn't be delayed 2 weeks.
But they won't, not in RL. We finish up the Court in a day or so RL, and then do the time jump. Lommy and Nogrod could then make the first posts on the new day with entering the Hall. Then they can be greeted etc.

As to your idea of sending Lin home and just having Marenil potter about a bit until AiE finishes, that would probably solve a few problems :)

Basically the idea is just to get the two timelines closer. If we could get court finished in a couple of days and then skip that takes up to halfway through April, right? Then say a week on introducing Lommy and Nogrod at the most and do the second jump, taking us to the beginning of June. That way in RL we would still only be halfway through June and the timelines would be almost equal.

littlemanpoet

06-06-2006, 01:47 PM

I was going to suggest Linduial spending time in Gondor, but I - uh - didn't think it wise for that to come from me, considering the current 'air' in these here parts....

I'd like Lommy and Nogrod to appear in court day as they have planned. Sorry it's taking so long....

Kath

06-06-2006, 01:53 PM

I'd like Lommy and Nogrod to appear in court day as they have planned. Sorry it's taking so long....
OK, so how about they appear and introduce themselves to Eodwine, and then we skip forward and we can have a few 'remembering' posts to start with?

If that's ok with Lommy and Nogrod that is.

Thinlómien

06-06-2006, 01:56 PM

OK, so how about they appear and introduce themselves to Eodwine, and then we skip forward and we can have a few 'remembering' posts to start with?

If that's ok with Lommy and Nogrod that is.After the court is over we will introduce ourselves to Eodwine. After he's answered us we can jump in time.

JennyHallu

06-06-2006, 01:57 PM

Let's not shorten the time we intended to spend on this day, and jump after Lin's leavetaking early tomorrow morning.

Kath

06-06-2006, 01:58 PM

Hey we have agreement! How's that sound to you lmp? Your game, your rules. But this should work out ok for everyone I think.

littlemanpoet

06-06-2006, 02:02 PM

Hey we have agreement! How's that sound to you lmp? Your game, your rules. But this should work out ok for everyone I think.
It'll work. As long as nobody thinks that I don't feel any obligation to make time for others' storylines; far be it from me to make it difficult to write here.

Kath

06-06-2006, 03:48 PM

lmp, I'd say that by allowing half your players to join a whole other side story while still being sure that they'd be able to commit to the main story, you've definitely made time for others' storylines :)

JennyHallu

06-06-2006, 09:14 PM

There...sorry for the delay, now the court can continue.

I plan to occasionally post with Lin through her absence, as away posts. I still need to transition from frightened post-kidnapping Lin to the true woman I plan to bring back to the Hall.

LMP, I have some rather unconventional thoughts on Lin's return (whene'er that happens) that I would like to discuss with you and see if we can get the kinks worked out of. AiE should give us enough time to make this idea work, if you think it's decent. Mostly a change in role...it's time for Lin to grow up, and I think the shock of the last couple of weeks will prove a perfect catalyst. Her return should somehow reflect that, and I wish her to step into an adult role and adult duties. Lots of ideas. Want to discuss. PM me or something.

littlemanpoet

06-07-2006, 04:00 AM

After yesterday's difficulties I'm not ready to write a post on the Eorling Mead Hall. I'm not sure I can work with Marenil's writer that closely. Trust needs to be rebuilt first. I need some reassurances.

JennyHallu

06-07-2006, 06:21 AM

Agh! I'm not mad! I have trust! I meant nothing personal by anything I said, and if you took it that way, I am sorry. Please do not delay the thread or punish others disconnected from this disagreement through your personal issues with me. :rolleyes: I'm allowed to disagree, and I thought the discussion yesterday was friendly and productive. I feel I understand where many of the writers here are coming from more fully, and didn't think to hear of it again. My excitement over the doings in this hall had returned in force...I'm sorry there's still an issue.

If you don't trust me enough to write with me, LMP, I'll leave for a time if that's your wish. All Eodwine has to do is nod or something at Marenil. :(

Folwren

06-07-2006, 07:20 AM

*Folwren looks very sadly and very shyly at lmp*

Please, lmp? Please write something. She didn't mean to make you mad. I'm sure she didn't mean to do anything like that.

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-07-2006, 08:52 AM

I thought that was very productively managed. Every story has a few setbacks, most especially with collaborative writing. Surely, LMP, you remember the right snit I got into regarding the introduction of Roggie into ATM1? We worked it out and look, we've finished game one, moved on to game two, and a challenge we faced turned into a pivotal role in the story. A legitimate concern has been voiced here and it seems to have been dealt with in a way that appears acceptable on all sides. Unless there remains an issue with it that hasn't been voiced? With the group we have here, all ages and personalities working as one to create something not only fun to write but great to read, I'd hate to see hard feelings cloud the process or the result.

Now, if there's anything I can do to provide a bit of comfortable middle ground?

littlemanpoet

06-07-2006, 09:47 AM

There appeared to be baseless assumptions that looked like personal attacks and aspersions on my character. Apparently that was debating method, and, apparently, during an already bad day, I misread them. I'd like to think so. In fact, none of what I've reread of your posts, Jenny, seems as bad as it seemed yesterday.

Therefore: Jenny, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Please do the same for me. If that's agreeable, we can move on.

JennyHallu

06-07-2006, 10:02 AM

Lovely. I'd like to think this is finally behind us. Onward and upward!

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-07-2006, 10:33 AM

Very good.

On a different note, I don't see myself posting on the game thread in the next week or two. Apart from entertaining guests and several other things, I'm starting a new job and dealing with the looming death of my great grandmother. I hope Saeryn and Degas (or Farahil) aren't needed.

Jen, feel free to write Farahil, if you're comfortable with the idea of it. He was going to ask her to return for safety reasons and big brotherly ones, but you beat me to it.

Ye Impish One, feel free to write Saeryn. You know her well at this point. Degas... well... he's just Degas. We can save that Talk until I'm better able to participate in it.

JennyHallu

06-07-2006, 10:36 AM

I think delaying the Talk between Degas and Lin until her return will make it all the hairier...especially if lmp and I are able to get some of my ideas for said return hammered out.

littlemanpoet

06-07-2006, 04:03 PM

Something else for the back burner: At some point Eodwine is going to need to go an adventure to the Gap of Rohan and into Dunland, in search of his wife who he thinks may be alive. I'm thinking that this trip may involve Saeryn, and maybe Degas, and other characters that may or may not wish to go with. While Eodwine is gone, the Steward will be in charge of the Eorling Mead Hall. I will still be writing Falco, Garreth, and Harreld, but with Eodwine gone, that means Marenil is in charage. So, you see how important it is to me that you and I, Jenny, be able to work together. This won't happen for a little while yet, but when it does, I foresee Eodwine being gone for what could be months.

JennyHallu

06-07-2006, 06:39 PM

littlemanpoet

06-07-2006, 08:29 PM

But that's not going to happen for a little while now, so let's not count chickens. I'm sure things will be perfectly fine long before then. I am serious: I have no problems with you, or trust issues. It's something you've got to figure out for yourself. We'll just take our time and see where things take us.
Relax. Just explaining why it was important to me. Now who's lecturing whom? ;) Seriously, it's all good. We're fine. On with the show!

Oh! And I've decided upon a new by-law. You all need to have fun. I demand it. :p

Folwren

06-07-2006, 08:45 PM

Relax. Just explaining why it was important to me. Now who's lecturing whom? ;) Seriously, it's all good. We're fine. On with the show!

Oh! And I've decided upon a new by-law. You all need to have fun. I demand it. :p

HARRAH!! Hand shakes all around with a huge grin on my face. Don't ask why, I like shaking people's hands when I'm happy. :D

Cheers to Jenny and Elempi!!

We'll have fun, don't worry! So long as things don't get tight in real life and in the discussion threads.

-- Foley

Celuien

06-07-2006, 08:51 PM

Oh! And I've decided upon a new by-law. You all need to have fun. I demand it.
Yes, sir. :D

Proceeding to have fun coming up with Garstan the stoneshaper's reply. ;) It will be up tomorrow. Too late for me to write anything good now.

Glad to see the problems are resolved. I'll join in the hand shakes.

And quick notice - I'm going to half of the festivities for my little sister's high school graduation after all, so I'll be gone all day and night Friday. 10 hours of driving are involved. :rolleyes: So I'll definitely get my reply up before I go. Don't want to hold up the action here.

littlemanpoet

06-08-2006, 02:07 PM

Celuien, I sort of left things hanging. Is there enough for you to go on?

Celuien

06-08-2006, 02:42 PM

Well, as things stand, I'd probably write a lot of internal dialogue reflecting on the rescue and court events followed by a question to Eodwine about what he wants to talk about... Does that work if I'm away tomorrow and can't continue until the weekend?

Formendacil

06-08-2006, 04:25 PM

:eek: EGADS!

You people could give a guy a heartattack!

Seriously... go away for three days and things just blow up... still calming down... breath, Michael, breath!

*breathes*

*breathes*

*breathes*

Okay, I think I'm back under control... Really, you people are too natural of Roleplayers- your serious discussions and queries and complaints turn into dramatic confrontations...

To weigh in, belatedly, with my personal opinions on the matter- I like jumping ahead in time, a week or three to a gap. It gives a greater feeling of permanence and real life than the belatedly long day-by-day version used in the Green Dragon. It is more condusive to longterm storytelling, which I think is what LMP is really looking for.

However, I have to go middle-of-the-roadish with Firefoot and others. Jumping ahead is good. Trying to keep pace with the course of the real life year maybe not so much... It's a good IDEA, I'll grant- but an inherently difficult one.

I may be a rather new RPGer on the 'Downs, but I come of an RPGing pedigree elsewhere, and of the 'Downsian RPGs, the Eorling Mead Hall's timeframe is the most similar to the one of my credentials. So I know from experience that while static characters (those with little or no development to worry about, however interesting they are) do well in a parallel-real life timeframe, developing characters do not.

Or, at least, it becomes a rather different adventure to demonstrate the growth and change in quite the same way.

Now, when I signed up with Náin, it was with both eyes open, and a full view of how things ran in the Mead Hall. The rules, as they stand, satisfy me well enough. I'd rather work around things than change them, being the sort of person that I am.

If, however, LMP decides to bow to the will of the Commons, and change up the timescheme, then I want to make it known that I like the jumping ahead by days/weeks. If we were to jump ahead a week/fortnight every time we jumped, that would be fine with me. If that means that when Christmas rolls around and we are still in Midsummer, well, that's fine with me too.

P.S: Jumping away from the great matters to those of finer detail: I am assuming that Eodwine will not be calling Náin to any sort of account at the court- seeing how thats sort of how I wrote it. But if there IS some sort of a plan regarding him... best let me know so that it's not a complete surprise.

littlemanpoet

06-08-2006, 08:42 PM

Formendacil

06-08-2006, 10:37 PM

Thank you, Formy, for your considered thoughts on the matter of time jumps. I will take them into consideration along with everyone else's and make no unilateral decisions at any point.

No unilateral decisions? Pity... I'm rather fond of unilateral decisions. :p

No, seriously, I'm glad that all the uncomfortable unpleasantries have passed, but it seems to me that there's still a certain uncertainty as to how the Mead Hall will proceed with regards to time... and being the butting-in sort that I am, my two cents were of a nature cast into the mix, with the assumption that us all being level-headed now, we can find an equitable path.

Mind you, I LIKE time jumps, and even keeping pace with the year, though a rather heady prospect, doesn't bother me- but Náin is a static character, in terms of growth. He'll CHANGE in his knowledge and experience, but not so much in terms of who he is- so I have the advantage that Jenny's Linduial does not...

Nain is not going to have a direct role with Eodwine on this court date, unless he requests it.

Tempting... tempting... but no. I rather like the idea of keeping Náin a bit freer of the rules of the hall than most. And, what with being clueless as to where I'll be this Fall and how much spare time I'll have, I'm hesitant to tie myself down too tightly.

But oh... if I had surety of the time needed... :rolleyes:

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-09-2006, 08:41 AM

Aww, Farahil sees his baby sister growing up... Cute.

I reserve my prior "I'm busy so I won't be around much" for at least a while longer. A week or two ought to cover it.

And LMP, about your rule... what if I say no? What if I say that writing makes me completely miserable and I loathe every second of it?

littlemanpoet

06-09-2006, 08:58 AM

Hey, fine by me. It was just a joke.

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-09-2006, 09:10 AM

Oh good. 'Cuz.. you know... I hate this so much.

JennyHallu

06-09-2006, 09:17 AM

Pickles and milk...it's all pickles and milk.

*rolls around giggling*

What? Ask Silly.

I'm having so much fun with Lin this morning, but I REALLY need to get back to work. Yay for Fridays! If you see me around much this afternoon, don't say a word about laziness and procrastination. It will fall on deaf ears.

Celuien

06-10-2006, 08:44 AM

Pickles and milk...it's all pickles and milk.
The soup! The soup! :D ;)

Ahem. So the real reason for my post...

Garstan isn't going to explain what's bothering him right now. That's part of the surprise for AiE, so I'm delibrately trying to dance around the issue. Hopefully, it will build some suspense in the process.

Jenny - how much longer before Lin takes off? Should Lèoðern come to say goodbye first?

JennyHallu

06-10-2006, 08:47 AM

Lin doesn't leave until tomorrow morning, early, game time. Whether Leodern comes to say good bye is of course up to you. Which is to say probably. Does Leodern know about the secret?

Congrats to your sister, by the by.

Celuien

06-10-2006, 09:05 AM

Does Leodern know about the secret?
Not yet. Well, not exactly. Garstan hasn't told her, but he has asked her indirect questions that played into his original answer about the secret. Or will in AiE. ;)
Congrats to your sister, by the by.
Thanks!

Folwren

06-12-2006, 05:40 AM

I forgot to mention. I'm leaving this morning and will not be returning until Friday afternoon. Thank goodness Thornden has already been called upon. :D

I'll see you all in a few days!

-- Folwren

littlemanpoet

06-12-2006, 09:33 AM

Great story, Ang! :)

What I'd like to do is have Eodwine say that he takes Manawyth into personal custody and will go to Dunland with Manawyth, for purposes of his own as well as to test the claims of Manawyth. This can then be part of the rpg I've been brooding on for a bit of a while. That does not mean that it has to happen right away.

What do you think, Ang?

I need to know if you're interested before Eodwine answers.

Also this would involve Saeryn, as she has family she wants to find, or find out as not living anymore. Care to describe what you have in mind, Fea?

Anguirel

06-12-2006, 09:56 AM

Slightly ripped off from my Scottish Clan's history. Mostly the arrow through the window.

LMP, I would need a long break before embarking on such an RP but provided you're willing to wait even till Septemper or October I'd love to brave it. For the moment I'm already suspecting I'm overstretched and I have an increasingly full summer...

Certainly there's plenty of dramatic potential. I made up Math on the spot, but I can see him as an excellent, morally ambiguous character. Manawyth left Llian in the hands of Gwaer's ruffians, so who can tell what's happened to her. And there's a twist in the tale Manawyth hasn't told the court.

He likes sinning by omission...

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-12-2006, 10:26 AM

LMP, remember when I first introduced Saeryn to the Horse? Runaway noble pretending not to be with limited success...

She'd run away from Fenrir with the plan being to follow in the footsteps of her dead parents (Fenrir broke the news of their death and she trusts him not at all, so she wanted to learn it for real). She got sidetracked at the Horse and then Degas came and revealed that her sister had died doing the same (following dead parents) and Saeryn's "Me? Noble... of course not!" charade ended.

Basically, she's still at the Hall for a few reasons: she's fallen in love with everybody there and doesn't want to leave them, she's got responsibilities now to herself and others, and she's dead scared now to follow and meet the same fate that seems to have taken half of her family.

If she and Eodwine go on the adventure promised that slightly inebriated night, Saeryn would want to follow a preordained path in search of information about parents that are said to have died several years earlier and a sister that died recently.

Fear will be her biggest obstacle as that's what it always has been for her in every situation. Presumably some fantastic tension would mount between Saeryn and Eodwine over who travels where, when, and with whom.

And I'm completely with Ang about needing to hold it off until the end of summer. But the more I think about this possible RP... the more I like it. :D It's actually reminding me of Tapestry, LMP.

littlemanpoet

06-12-2006, 08:25 PM

I'm fine with waiting until September or October as I have a very full plate already myself. At least that gives me the info I need for Eodwine to answer Manawyth. Yes, there is a bit of Tapestry familiarity there. :)

littlemanpoet

06-14-2006, 02:17 PM

I will be on vacation from June 15 through June 20. I'll have computer access now and then.

Anguirel, do you want to have Manawyth respond to Eodwine, or should we just move on, figuring that Manawyth 'gets it'?

littlemanpoet

06-14-2006, 09:16 PM

I've edited my last post to open things up for anyone. It is lunch time and the Hall has been reorganized for food and drink. Be merry! Feel free to move the time along toward late afternoon; just remember, we need to give Noggy and Lommy a chance to introduce themselves before the court day is done; perhaps their patience can be tried and they are the last ones to be welcomed as the sun is about to set...? Just an idea.....

Nogrod

06-15-2006, 01:48 AM

Feel free to move the time along toward late afternoon; just remember, we need to give Noggy and Lommy a chance to introduce themselves before the court day is done; perhaps their patience can be tried and they are the last ones to be welcomed as the sun is about to set...? Just an idea.....That is just fine. We've had busy time modding our WWJ-game, but have already thought of a couple of things happening on the yard, so we can wait for you to finish the proceedings and have fun at the yard. And if you are serving food and drink, you might see one small hungry kid around there too... :)

Folwren

06-17-2006, 12:59 PM

I'm back. May post later on today, am not sure. :)

-- Folwren

Folwren

06-20-2006, 09:01 PM

I'm very sorry. That last post was way out of place. I neglected to read Elempi's post right before it. :rolleyes: :o I've taken it down and now understand that Thornden is not wandering around with nothing to do but sitting in court again.

-- Folwren

Folwren

06-21-2006, 02:38 PM

I really dislike double posting, but I've done it here and in the Golden Perch now. . .

I have two things to say about what I just posted in the Mead Hall:

1. I've no idea which grains are planted in early spring. I stuck in oats because I like oats, but I don't know if that's quite right. If someone else knows better about what is planted in the spring, then let me know and I'll go back and change it.

2. Elempi, I used Eodwine and made up that case to make it interesting. If you don't like what Eodwine said or did, then I can change it, of course. If you're completely appalled with it, I can take it out. If you have a decision that you want him to make immediately, I can edit it, or you can go ahead and write it yourself, or let me write it for later in the day, or whatever.

That's all, folks.

-- Folwren

Nogrod

06-21-2006, 05:39 PM

1. I've no idea which grains are planted in early spring. I stuck in oats because I like oats, but I don't know if that's quite right. If someone else knows better about what is planted in the spring, then let me know and I'll go back and change it.
Wheat or spelt would sound more right, but I'm not a farmer myself either, so I'm not sure if you should trust me here...

And just to make an announcement. I'll be away until Sunday at least - and Lommy will be having scarce net-time on the following two-three weeks. I hope she can post our characters conversing before she goes (she has that post somewhat ready)...

And just to avoid any confusion: Cnebba, who seems to be the fastest of us is our common character - so we both will write for him.

littlemanpoet

06-21-2006, 06:06 PM

Celuien

06-21-2006, 06:16 PM

My thoughts:

Non-use of land to the 'best' purpose it could be given does not constitute abandonment of the land. Nor does it give a neighbor who does have what he considers a good use for the land the right to move onto the land without permission. Arrgh. Eminent domain cases. A pet peeve of mine. Anyone curious and up for hearing a rant can PM me after my exams are over this Friday. :D

So my list of questions for the arguers in the case would be the same as Eodwine's. I would be strongly inclined to make the squatting party pay rent. And maybe a fine...

Formendacil

06-22-2006, 01:07 AM

Whew... that IS a legal tangle there, Folwren...

I agree with Celuien: the planting farmer is a squatter- at least by modern definition. I'm unsure how Anglo-Saxon (or Rohirric, for that matter) law would have dealt with the issue... My belief would be that, in a feudal system, the land technically all belongs to the King, and under him to the local lord. In this case, that would be Eodwine.

In a medieval society, it seems LIKELY to me that the Lord would want as much land as possible to be cultivated. And the typical scheme of things was two years planted, one year fallow. By leaving the land fallow, Farmer Owner was not fulfilling his obligation as a vassal of the Middle Emnet.

And, if was accept Farmer Planter's statement that he had a very narrow window in which to plant, then what he did was justifiable, and not to be harshly punished.

Anyway, that's MY reading of the matter, but as Eodwine is Eorl and not Náin, I'll leave that kettle of fist for Littlemanpoet.

Thinlómien

06-22-2006, 02:54 AM

And just to make an announcement. I'll be away until Sunday at least - and Lommy will be having scarce net-time on the following two-three weeks. I hope she can post our characters conversing before she goes (she has that post somewhat ready)...I've been awfully lazy with this and occupied with amusing my sister...

I promise to write a post on Modtryth and Stigend and put it up before I leave to countryside, in a few days, that is.

And if Cnebba needs more writing and I have time I can do that too if Noggie's in the summer cottage...

littlemanpoet

06-22-2006, 03:34 AM

Folwren

06-22-2006, 07:45 AM

Hmmm...! My...! A find little pickle you've handed me. :D So just to summarize, Freeholder A owns the field but hasn't been using it, and Freeholder B doesn't own it but has been using it without A's leave. Right?

Correct.

How did B plant it without A noticing? Did B plant it in secret at night (that would be very strange)? Was A gone? Did A know B was planting and not try to stop him? Or did he try to stop him and was there some threatening, whether of bodily harm or legal recourse? These are the questions that Eodwine will be asking before making a decision. Folwren, I'd love it if you could provide answers to put in the mouths of A & B so I can use them in a post. Sound good? :)

What I had in mind while writing it was A knew B was planting and did not try to stop him. He knew the land was his, and figured that if he waited until the field was planted before interrupting the work and claiming the fruit as his, he'd have a lot of free work done for him.

Anyway, Eodwine's likely settlement is that B is going to have to pay A for the use of the land, whether in fee or in kind, and will, if having planted without permission, probably have to pay a fine to Eodwine besides for having caused the problem in the first place.

That seems somewhat harsh, though, doesn't it? If a land lies fallow for two years as B claims it has, then surely the land should go to someone else. Eodwine rightfully asked Farmer B why he didn't come to him before planting, but B gave his reasoning (not enough time). It's not a very good reason, perhaps, for if he had thought ahead at all, he could have come to him before planting started, but it's still a reason.

Eodwine had not been Eorl very long, understand, so he really doesn't know what land is being well used and what land isn't. That's another job that you should send Thornden on maybe. Eodwine could not have fixed this problem for the settlers. The Eorl who owned the land before him should have (technically) had tabs on everything and seen that the field wasn't in good use.

Eodwine might consider asking A why he never used the good land.

In a medieval society, it seems LIKELY to me that the Lord would want as much land as possible to be cultivated. And the typical scheme of things was two years planted, one year fallow. By leaving the land fallow, Farmer Owner was not fulfilling his obligation as a vassal of the Middle Emnet.

And, if was accept Farmer Planter's statement that he had a very narrow window in which to plant, then what he did was justifiable, and not to be harshly punished.

That's just it. Not only in the midieval society was land not generally allowed to stay fallow for longer a year, but even in more recent times, early American settler times, when they cleared a piece of land, they were expected to do something on it, and if they didn't, the law would sometimes come and take it away from them to give to another man who would use it for better purposes.

But, that brings us back to the problem of - it was not in B's rights to go and plant the land without having some sort of permission from Eodwine.
I'd be interested in others' opinions as to how they see this case. Kinda fun. :)

I'm glad you think it's fun. I myself love cases like this, but I was worried that you might not. If I were smarter and planned on getting into a long term profession, I'd be very interested in going into law.

If you've any more questions, I can try to answer them. I could also ask my dad what would happen now adays in such a case - he's a lawyer (a good one, if you'll believe me). Actually, he's just recently had a case much like this.

-- Folwren

JennyHallu

06-22-2006, 11:19 AM

I would like to see an example of American law denying the rights of ownership, no matter how early in our history.

Celuien

06-22-2006, 11:34 AM

If A was aware of B's actions, that puts a slightly different slant on the matter. A is then guilty of implictly giving permission, then attempting to steal free labor.

But still, I don't like B's actions. Who knows? Maybe the land had been overworked by high nutrient demanding crops and A thought it needed more than a year to lie fallow. Maybe A planned to build something there. Or maybe A was just lazy. The point is that B needed to check before taking any action, both with A and with Eodwine. The worst A has done is been neglectful of the land, which would deserve a lecture from Eodwine. B has attempted squatting, and so theft, which I find worse.

*shrugs*

Firefoot

06-22-2006, 11:39 AM

To me it comes down to these few things:

B is definitely guilty to some extent; he had no right to be using the land without some sort of permission.
But:
Why wasn't A using the land?
Did A know B was using the land? (I don't think there's really any way to get around a 'yes' answer to this... I would think it would be fairly obvious.)
If so, did A say anything to B? If he did, then A should not be counted guilty except perhaps for not using the land in the first place. If not... A is certainly to blame as well.

Formendacil

06-22-2006, 12:23 PM

Maybe the wisdom of Solomon should be borrowed: let's cut somebody in half. :p

Nay, it looks guilty on both sides... funny how we humans like to do that. I'd still say that Farmer A (He's the Owner) is MORE wrong than Farmer B- laziness not being well smiled on in medieval times. Not to mention attempting to get profit from another man's labour. Farmer B (the Planter) seems to be guilty- in the main- of being overzealous. His statement of not having time to consult the Eorl, coupled with the relative newbieness of the Eorl (one month is NOT a long time), it seems likely to me that his offence is primarily of the "slap on the wrist" variety.

And I agree with Folwren concerning North American law. In both pioneer America and pioneer Canada, buying unbroken land from the government was cheap- but it didn't belong to you for X number of years unless you worked the land all those years. (The number of years, amount of crop, as well as other stipulations like living on the land, varied, I believe.)

JennyHallu

06-22-2006, 12:39 PM

That was a contract:

Unclaimed land was purchased, in plots of a set area (usually an acre, which is why the Midwest is such a perfect patchwork), by "staking a claim", which meant living off the land for so long a time.

To "claimjump", one waited until someone had done the hard work of clearing the land, and then moved in while they were away (for whatever reason), then defend that land from the rightful claimants. That was wrong, and illegal, even if the claimjumper felt the claimants were not properly using the land. The only stipulation was that they supported themselves on that land.

None of that land had a previous owner, besides the Federal government when the land was ceded to the United States.

Farmer B is a claimjumper.

EDIT: and who cares if A let his land lie fallow? It's his decision. Perhaps he hadn't the hands to work it himself, but was planning to send the field as his daughter's dowry when she wed. Perhaps the land had been poorly stewarded and overworked by a previous owner, and needed to lie fallow for more time. Perhaps the man wished to put cattle on it, but was saving his money to purchase the livestock. The Rohirrim are not serfs, are they?

Folwren

06-22-2006, 01:08 PM

Jenny, you're probably right with what you're saying about what happened here in America. I only used that as an example (having what Formy just said in mind). But we're not discussing America.

Farmer B is a claimjumper.

EDIT: and who cares if A let his land lie fallow? It's his decision. Perhaps he hadn't the hands to work it himself, but was planning to send the field as his daughter's dowry when she wed. Perhaps the land had been poorly stewarded and overworked by a previous owner, and needed to lie fallow for more time. Perhaps the man wished to put cattle on it, but was saving his money to purchase the livestock. The Rohirrim are not serfs, are they?

Well, see, these problems do have to be addressed. I don't know if the land was poorly stewarded, or if he was keeping it for later, or what. We can decide that if we want. If he didn't have enough hands to work it himself, then that means he didn't have the ability to keep it, and if he wasn't doing anything with it and if he couldn't do anything with it, but his neighbor had the ability to work it and plant it, then technically, they both should have talked it over and brought it to Eodwine before it came to what it is.

I have not considered all the different possibilities of A. I merely wrote the problem down, and I mostly did it from B's point of view. What happened here is not an unlikely occurance, you know.

If A does end up having a good reason for letting the land lie unused, then perhaps there is no guilt on his side.

If A knew that B was planting his land but he didn't say anything, there is some guilt there.

Because B has planted outside his claim, he's in fault, too. But is it enough to loose all of his work and all of his crops?

Consider this:

If B is allowed to keep what he planted (that's what they're arguing over - not who's land it is, really), A looses nothing, because he wasn't doing anything with his land anyway - UNLESS A was intending to plant a later crop, in which case, he would have been working the ground around the same time B was.

The reason they brought this to court was because A wants to take B's work and crop after all the really hard work is done and B is putting up a fight. A think it's his right because it's his land, B think's it's his right because it's his work.

Back to what Jenny said:

Perhaps he hadn't the hands to work it himself, but was planning to send the field as his daughter's dowry when she wed.

If that's the case, it might be easily resolved. Farmer B is not asking Eodwine to give him the land. He's asking him not to let Farmer A take away his crop. Here's the case as I put it:

One man (A) claimed that his neighbor (B) had planted an entire crop of oats on one of A's outlying fields. Because it was land granted to A, A should now own the crop growing on it. The other man (B) interjected - the field had lain fallow for two years, the owner (A) wasn’t using it as it should be used, A didn’t do the work, if A wanted the field for A's own use, A should have been out there breaking the ground instead of leaving it for his neighbor (B) to do.

Now, if A ups and says 'I can't work it myself, but I want to keep it until my daughter get's married' Eodwine can grant that to him, but say - 'Until then, B can use it for crops, so long as he lets it rest as often as it needs to' or whatever.

If you want to ad fines or whatever to it, Elempi, you can. I have no clue about anything like that.

-- Folwren

JennyHallu

06-22-2006, 01:15 PM

Folwren

06-22-2006, 01:34 PM

If Farmer A is owner of the land, then in my opinion it doesn't matter what he does with it. If I own a plot of land and do nothing with it, then it is still wrong for my neighbor to plant a field there. It isn't his. Farmer B doesn't dispute the land isn't his, nor does he claim he didn't know who the owner is, just claims he is entitled to it because Farmer A isn't using it. In my opinion, it doesn't matter who is using it or isn't.

...

That's just my take on the situation: if Farmer A owns the land, he can do as he please with it, and isn't obligated legally to plant it. If Eodwine owns the land, perhaps it is a different story.

Oh! Oh, my dear Jenny! No, no, no!

I've been confused with your argumentativeness up to this point, but now I understand entirely where you're coming from.

No, the land does not belong to him. It is Eodwine's and he grants the property to these different free holders on the condition that they use it to the best of it's ability. That is why they pay rent to the Eorl. They pay him for the use of his land. If they do not use the land to the best of their abilities, then they don't get to use it because it's going to waste and is not raising food when it could.

That is what I understand the matter to be. If that's not what's happening, then it appears I am confused and mistaken as well. But that the understanding that I've been writing with.

-- Folwren

JennyHallu

06-22-2006, 01:56 PM

Folwren

06-22-2006, 02:00 PM

My argument then, would still be with renters' rights. (I rent, by the way...)

If the man is not using the field, the other Farmer should have petitioned Eodwine for use of the land before planting, not planted and then asked, no matter the schedule of the crop. He is not paying the rent on the field, so he shouldn't get to use it.

And are we sure the folks are renting? Are there freeholders on any of Eodwine's jurisdiction?

Right. That's what's snagging this up. Farmer B should have petitioned to Eodwine before planting, that's why Elempi is considering having him get into more trouble than Mr. A.

And I do not know who are free holders and who are not.

-- Folwren

Formendacil

06-22-2006, 03:11 PM

and who cares if A let his land lie fallow? It's his decision. Perhaps he hadn't the hands to work it himself, but was planning to send the field as his daughter's dowry when she wed. Perhaps the land had been poorly stewarded and overworked by a previous owner, and needed to lie fallow for more time. Perhaps the man wished to put cattle on it, but was saving his money to purchase the livestock. The Rohirrim are not serfs, are they?

Well, from a medieval point of view... Eodwine would care. King Eomer would care.

IF Farmer A had other plans/reasons for letting the land lie fallow, then that would obviously affect Eodwine's decision- but from what we know, there's no such evidence as yet.

The Rohirrim weren't serfs, or so I would hazard, but they ARE being given a VERY Anglo-Saxon feel, and in that period of history, the land belonged to King -all of it-, and was held by his vassals, the Eorls. Depending on the size of the Earldom (or the Emnet), there would possibly be another layer of lords beneath the Eorl, who would hold the land as his vassals. Finally would be the final layer of vassals- the farmers, or landholders. I don't think they'd necessarily be serf. A serf is tied to the land, whereas it would seem to me that the Rohirrim had physical mobility within their class.

But, as I said, the land was NOT the property of the farmer alone. As a vassal, he is it's owner under Eodwine, and subject to him, just as Eodwine is beneath and subject to Eomer. And Eodwine not only holds the right to command obedience from his vassals, but has the obligation to his subjects to provide for them as well- and that means that all land not currently in its fallow year ought to have been planted, if normally used for cropland.

Again, if there ARE extenuating circumstances, as you have suggested there may be, then that obviously changes things up. And, obviously, Eodwine (meaning LMP) gets to make the final decision, and none of us commentators. But it IS fun to speculate. :D

Formendacil

06-22-2006, 03:14 PM

Been crossposting, I see....

To concur with Folwren, and to restate in a slightly different manner my previous point, we are dealing with a more feudal system of ownership than of American West. So obviously, modern and American precedent should be taken with a grain of salt- though there is applicability.

littlemanpoet

06-22-2006, 04:37 PM

Let's set out the issue in terms of the facts. (uh-oh, LMP's in loyer mode, now we're reeeeelly in trouble) :D

1. Anglo-Saxon and therefore (we are implying) Rohirric codes are what we're dealing with.

2. Both farmers A and B are tenants, not owners.

3. Until a month ago, the land was leased of the King.

4. Now by order of the King it is leased of the Eorl of the Middle Emnet, all rights and responsibilities adhering thereto. (snicker)

5. Rights of ownership adhering to the Eorl include: (1) rent, paid quarterly, in fee or kind, depending on the agreement formerly made between king and tenant; (2) upon the death of the primary tenant, the land may be handed down to the tenant's heir, which is most likely in normal situations, or to another freeholder depending upon circumstances (criminal activity, the former family line running out or dwindling, etc.).

6. Rights of tenancy: (1) use of all crops harvested (after rent is paid); (2) tenancy for the life of the tenant.

There are probably more rights, but this will do for now.

Now for the case at hand:

1. Farmer B wrongfully sowed and seeks to harvest crops on land not in his tenancy.
2. Farmer A was negligent in not notifying the proper authority (a shire reave for example) of the wrongful activity.
3. Farmer A must pay rent to King or Eorl for the fallow land whether or not he uses it for crops; he is expected to use it for crops, but in the semi-feudal Anglo-Saxon society, is not required to. (In post William the Conqueror Britain, by contrast, tenants were more strictly regulated.)

In fact, Farmer A may be letting the field lie fallow so that it can be transformed into a horse pasture, something that is not at all uncommon in Rohan. I have half a mind to use this particular twist for the sake of our little disagreement.

As for "the best use of the land", that would be more of a concern in a more tightly regulated feudal society, which Rohan (as understood as a developed Anglo-Saxon culture) is not.

Farmer B should have gotten permission from our nameless Shire Reave, or else directly from the King, as there was no Eorl of the Middle Emnet when all of this happened.

Formy, the feudal structure you outline is actually more in keeping with post-Williamite Britain. In the pre-Williamite there would be a King, his Earls, freeholders, then peasants. Four levels, tops.

My next post is going to be an attempt at the exchange between Eodwine and the two farmers. I have a writers' group meeting starting in 1 hour, so I don't know how far I'll get.

littlemanpoet

06-22-2006, 05:13 PM

By the way, Folwren, Eodwine's words need to be changed post #367 in one small regard: In place of “You should have come to me before you broke ground and planted crops. It might have saved trouble.” - please put this: "You should have gone to the King or his man before you broke ground and planted crops. It would have saved trouble." Also, please change this: "Later today I will have made up my mind." to "Later today I will have more questions." - Thanks! :)
****************
Eodwine and Saeryn took their seats again (it had been a most interesting discussion between the two of them regarding tenancy rights), and Thornden called the court to order with a thump on the floor of the staff Eodwine had procured for him recenlty. The two farmers stood before the Eorl.

The first freeholder, Edelfrid, who tenanted the disputed land, stood on Eodwine's and Saeryn's right; the second, Radweld, who had planted the crops, stood to their left.

"Edelfrid," Eodwine began, "did you pay tenancy to the King for the field while is lay fallow the second year?"

"That I did, lord."

"Did you know that Radweld was planting crops in your field?"

"I knew, lord."

"Why did you not speak of it to your shire reave or bring it to the king?"

"Lord, am I on trial, or this man's misdeed?"

"You are not on trial. But I need to know as much as I can before I make a ruling. Answer the question."

"Lord, we have been unfriends for many years, and I admit that I hoped to win at his cost."

"That is ill-thought by you, Edelfrid."

"Yes, lord, I am sorry."

"Your unfriendship should be redressed, but the matter of the crops must be ruled on first. Why did you leave the land fallow the extra year, Edelfrid?"

"I plan to buy horses, lord, and I need a field for pasturing."

"That field is not big enough for horse pasturage!" Radweld scowled.

"You, neighbor," Edelfrid sneered, "have no right telling me what my land is good for!"

Thornden raised the staff and brought it down hard three times. The three knocks on the floor got the two opponents' attention. "There will be order in my lord's court," Thornden said smoothly.

"Thank you, Thornden," Eodwine smiled. "Here is my thought on the matter. Radweld, you did wrongfully to plant on a field not in your tenancy. For that you must pay. If Edelfrid was preparing his land for pasturage, you have stolen not only the use of his land for a crop year, but you have stolen time Edelfrid needed to turn the land to pasturage, and if Edelfrid is to hold to his plans to buy horses, he will have to pasture them elsewhere, paying rent for the right."

"But-" Radweld interrupted.

"I am not finished, Radweld!"

The freeholder subsided.

"On the other hand, Edelfrid allowed Radweld to do all the work on the field, with the hopes of gaining at Radweld's cost. This is wrongful. There is no law against it, but I would not have such things be the way things are done in my Emnet. Therefore, I rule thusly. First, that Radweld must pay a fine to me of two tenths of the worth of the crop for his wrongful use of Edelfrid's land. Second, that Radweld pay to Edelfrid double the yearly rate for rental of pasturage for two grown horses. Third, that these fines covering Radweld's wrongdoing, he is ruled as tenant of Edelfrid for the planted field, and will pay to Edelfrid a normal tenant rate for one year's use of the field, and may keep all that is left, for the sake of the work he has put into the land."

Neither Edelfrid nor Radweld looked completely happy, nor crestfallen. To Eodwine's mind, that was as it should be.
*************
Well? What do y'all think?

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-22-2006, 05:22 PM

I think that I'm ecstatic that Saeryn didn't actually have to say anything about either farmers or land rights. :)

Folwren

06-22-2006, 05:49 PM

I will do so when I've more time. I'll also read your post later. :)

-- Folwren

Celuien

06-22-2006, 06:47 PM

I like it, lmp. As fair as possible to both of them, I think. :)

Formendacil

06-23-2006, 01:00 AM

Formy, the feudal structure you outline is actually more in keeping with post-Williamite Britain. In the pre-Williamite there would be a King, his Earls, freeholders, then peasants. Four levels, tops.

Well, I've never claimed to be an Anglo-Saxon expert, so I'll take your word for it... though Saxon England was a feudal society. And they did have King, Earls, and Freeholders. They were simply a little less rigid about it...

Anyway, good to see the debate is getting back to the game, where it belongs... Rohirric law is more appropriate to Eodwine than Elempi. :p

Folwren

06-23-2006, 07:19 AM

Elempi, corrections in my post are made.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you to change one thing in yours. I don't think that Thornden would have to shout his order. It's not very much like him to shout. You could put- "Quite!" Thornden commanded. Or something that would imply he said it in a louder than normal voice and possibly in a dominating sort of way (that is what you wanted to imply, right?).

The post looked good. Great job wading through all of the debate posted here and coming out with that. :)

-- Folwren

Thinlómien

06-23-2006, 08:35 AM

...just to inform I managed to fumble again. :) I was the last few weeks in Nogrod's place and started writing the post there. When I came back home yesterday, I forgot to take the half of the post with me. As I wouldn't like to rewrite it and Nogrod's now in our summer cottage, I must wait 'til Sunday that he sends it to me via e-mail and I still have to finish it, so it will be up on Monday probably. I hope that doesn't cause any trouble: I suppose we're still having the same day going on, right?

littlemanpoet

06-23-2006, 09:07 AM

Thinlómien

06-23-2006, 09:13 AM

. . .so it will be up on Monday probably. I hope that doesn't cause any trouble: I suppose we're still having the same day going on, right?LMP, could you confirm this now that you're online?

littlemanpoet

06-23-2006, 07:33 PM

LMP, could you confirm this now that you're online?
Sorry, I was pressed for time. Yes, we're still on the same day. We'll make the post you put up on Monday be the final event of court. There may be more posts to wind up the day.

Okay, now for that all important issue: I'm taking nominations for how far into the future we jump. Let's here what you want to do.

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-23-2006, 10:38 PM

Assured by Thornden that these were the last freeholders, Eodwine opened the court to the needs and desires of peasants and aliens.
I can't remove the image of little green men mucking about in Rohan. :D

Time jump:

Will we still have 'tomorrow'?

I have several things that need to be done 'tomorrow':

Farahil and Lin leave, therefore Farahil will be saying goodbye, Degas will be reacting to the news, and Saeryn will be upset to see her friend and *blush* Farahil leaving. Those things can be done in retrospect, though I'd prefer to write it as it happens.

What is a lot more awkward to write reflectively is the series of topics that Saeryn and Degas need to cover in conversation.

Also, Saeryn and Eodwine will be wanting to discuss the court proceedings rather immediately after they end, one would think.

And Degas will be wanting to have a private word with Eodwine. That one can wait a few 'days' if it must, but my other posts really want for 'tomorrow'.

So if the time jump goes from this night to something not the chronological next day, I'll be rather put out and have to rethink a few things, but I'll deal with it.

If my concerns are superfluous and of course we have tomorrow and the time change will happen AFTER that, then I can work with just about anything, though the shorter the jump, the easier to keep up with some quickly developing characters. Farahil is pretty static, but Saeryn and Degas have recently been through some interesting and are changing as quickly as hourly for it. They need their development time or what I see happening to them will be very awkward to convey well to readers and fellow writers.

So yeah... I need my tomorrow and then the shorter the jump the better, at least for now.

Thinlómien

06-27-2006, 03:53 AM

The post's up, a day late. Sorry.

I think we shouldn't jump in time right now. It seems Cnebba and Garstan's children are just getting to know each other; I think it would nice that there would still be at least one post for them for the current day in the Mead Hall. Furthermore, when is Stigend's hiring to take place? Then, after a few today-posts we could move to tomorrow, as Fea seems to have a lot of things to write about. Then, maybe, we could jump in time. This is just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

littlemanpoet

06-27-2006, 09:49 AM

Okay, we'll take a pit stop into the following Day before moving on. Please try to get all you need to write into one or two posts, as I'd like us to move on to at least a week later rather soon. Don't want this to drag any more than it has started to (I realize my court date has not helped one bit, and I'm sorry about that). If you need to write more than one post for the following Day, just let me know and we'll work it out.

Feanor of the Peredhil

06-27-2006, 10:04 AM

Thinlómien

06-27-2006, 10:29 AM

I let it to Noggie to drag our little family along from now on; I will be running around Finland for the next four weeks...

JennyHallu

06-27-2006, 11:42 AM

That's all I wanted to say.

Nogrod

06-27-2006, 11:52 AM

I'll try to come up with a post yet today (after the football mach is over... :rolleyes: ), so we can see what is Eodwine's answer to our family.

littlemanpoet

06-27-2006, 02:34 PM

It will depend on how Jenny works Lin's departure. I might not even need/want to write a Farahil post. I can handle Saeryn and Degas in one post, though it will probably be absurdly long. LMP, do you want Eodwine and Degas to have their erm... chat ;)... sooner or later?Sooner. As in this Day after court proceedings are done.
Oh, and are Saeryn and Eodwine going to share thoughts on the court proceedings "tonight" or do you just want to do it in retrospect?That can happen toNight if you like. Do you think we need to do a PM built post?

I'll try to come up with a post yet today (after the football mach is over... ), so we can see what is Eodwine's answer to our family.Sounds good!

That's all I wanted to say.:D That looks funny on the post history screen....