Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[satansaloser2005]

*chuckles* Phantom, you're always like this, aren't you?

Sorry, just felt like saying that. Back in a sec with timed voting records and some commentary on the night kills. *mutters about Volo and Kit, especially Volo....blankity blank werewolves!!!!*



EDIT: x'd with the last phantom

[the phantom]

Ah, so the storms didn't kill you Sally? Excellent. A nasty one is raging here in Omaha right now, but it's nearly finished.

Lightning is so pretty. At least when it doesn't knock the power out. That would be a disaster while trying to participate in a WW village!

[satansaloser2005]

I lied. A separate post for this....just so I can get this over with and then get to my own thoughts. :)



DAY ONE VOTES
Morm-->Brinn 12:26pm
Sally-->Phantom 2:24pm
Gwath-->Sally 2:54pm
Kit-->Morm 6:25pm
Nerwen-->Cailin 7:34pm
Roa-->Phantom 7:48pm
Cellie-->Izzy 8:44pm
Rikae-->Morm 9:22pm
Izzy-->Roa 9:26pm
Shasta-->Phantom 9:30pm
Eon-->Phantom 9:43pm
Cailin-->Nerwen 9:56pm
Ka-->Cellie 9:57pm
Greenie-->Gwath 10:00pm
Cabbie-->Nerwen 10:09pm
Mac-->Legate 10:10pm
Lallie-->Nerwen 10:15pm
Durie-->Nerwen 10:28pm
Lommie-->Agan 10:43pm
Diamond-->Nerwen 10:45pm
Volo-->Agan 10:46pm
Brinn-->Agan 10:53pm
Legate-->Agan 10:57pm
Agan-->Nerwen 10:59pm
No votes: Kath, Lhuna, Nilp, Phantom



Note: As is my typical style, known innocents are in italics and known wolves (not that we have any yet, but still....) are underlined

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm still unsure about Phantom, but all we've been doing is talking around in circles about him. Let's leave that for now.

It seems like someone wants to clip the Volo family tree from the root up! :eek: I'm the only gaffer left now...

I'll go consult the cards. Maybe they'll give me some insight.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sally, a word before I go; I notice Ka is italicized in your vote times. Why are you so sure she's innocent?

[satansaloser2005]

Ah, so the storms didn't kill you Sally? Excellent. A nasty one is raging here in Omaha right now, but it's nearly finished.

Lightning is so pretty. At least when it doesn't knock the power out. That would be a disaster while trying to participate in a WW village!

Nope, I'm quite fine, glad you haven't been wiped off the map. The storms are pretty much all around us (I'm about 20 miles west of Crete, in Friend, if you know where that is) but we're only getting a pretty light show. And I do mean a PRETTY light show....

Not a power outage! NOES!

Okay, I promise, I'll get to game discussion now....:)


Oh, and to Shasta. Sorry, that was a mistake. I only denote known roles; I must have italicized her instead of Nerwen or something. Thanks for noticing! *fixes*

[Diamond18]

Where in the rules does it say you have to vote?

*smack*

Did I ask about the rules?

I see a posting requirement, but no voting requirement. ;)

Which completely avoids my question... and makes erroneous assumptions about my reasons for asking it. I was interested in your reason for not voting, not whether or not you technically had to.

But little matter, since you answered Ka. Or rather, elaborated on her hypothesis.

Bored with that topic, now.

Perhaps I'll make a list. I have no idea what to put on that list, though. Oh wait --

What Diamond Thinks:

1. Volo was the seer.
2. He voted for Aganzir.
3. Aganzir is evil!
4. Lynch her! Dance in her blood!
5. Volo probably didn't dream about her, anyway.
6. But I do so wish for a good blood-dance.

I'll be back.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, down to business.

First of all, my little cousin Di should lay off the wax....like seriously....

Why did Volo and Kit die? Like Brinn said, it was most likely random, as Volo and Kit were pretty unsuspicious.

Random tangent. What if Volo was just scried as a Seer tonight? Oh, wait. Is that even possible? I don't think so. Just kidding. Moving on....

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the kills were random. Volo may have pegged a wolf, but I kind of doubt it.
Agan may be a horr....ible person (:Merisu:) but I don't, at least yet, think she's a killer. I'll have to think about it more before I sic my duckling on her.

And Phantom, why DIDN'T you vote yesterday? That's rather odd, especially since we all know you were around and posting.


EDIT: x'd with cousin Di

[Lhunardawen]

Whoa. the phantom is just about the only person I know with Seer-hunting capabilities like this. The other I'm sure of is Kuru - he must be a wolf!

Seriously, I'm not sure my betrothed is a wolf. He's too noisy, he'll just get himself killed. I'm a wee bit certain I'm engaged to a wizard, but we'll see.

Okay, so why Volo? I mean seriously, that was one mean kill. Out of more than 20, they got him?

If I remember right someone said something about him posting differently. I'll try to *sigh* crawl through yesterDay's posts and see if that says something. Gosh, really. 6 pages in a day. I almost want to die already.

[satansaloser2005]

*smack*

What Diamond Thinks:

1. Volo was the seer.
2. He voted for Aganzir.
3. Aganzir is evil!
4. Lynch her! Dance in her blood!
5. Volo probably didn't dream about her, anyway.
6. But I do so wish for a good blood-dance.




Wow....and my boyfriend thought I was violent and blood-thirsty....

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

What Diamond Thinks:

1. Volo was the seer.
2. He voted for Aganzir.
3. Aganzir is evil!
4. Lynch her! Dance in her blood!
5. Volo probably didn't dream about her, anyway.
6. But I do so wish for a good blood-dance.(Di)There were no NIGHT activity (Seer dream, etc.) on NIGHT 1, so last NIGHT was supposed to be the first dream.

[Roa_Aoife]

Why are they killing off my family?!?!?! First Nogrod, then Nerwen, then Volo and Kitanna! Hide yourselves, Legate and Brinn! Quickly!

Okay, I'm just checking in. I'll be back after I go back through the thread. I'm going to look at where that Nerwen suspicion started, since she didn't ring any alarm bells from me the first time through. Of course, I was in a hurry, and so might have missed some things.

[satansaloser2005]

There were no NIGHT activity (Seer dream, etc.) on NIGHT 1, so last NIGHT was supposed to be the first dream.

DADDY!!!!!! I'm so happy you're safe!!!!!



And good point. I didn't think about that; there's no WAY he dreamed ANYTHING. Thanks for mentioning it. (Can we kill Agan later anyway? :p)

[satansaloser2005]

Why are they killing off my family?!?!?! First Nogrod, then Nerwen, then Volo and Kitanna! Hide yourselves, Legate and Brinn! Quickly!




Indeed. I think I speak for my dear sister as well when I say that if you touch our loves, you're in some seriously deep trouble. (And Legate darling, by the way, you best explain your little bit of flipflopping yesterday, voting Agan and yet not wanting her killed. Acting like that could get you lynched, and you know I wouldn't want that)

[Lhunardawen]

I'm not sure what to make of this killing all in one family thing. One far-fetched theory I can contrive is that the wolves probably come mostly from the Greenie line (not to suspect Greenie herself of anything), and are killing off the Volo line because killing their own will reduce their connections and make it more likely for them to be lynched. But then it was already learned from history that placing all eggs in one basket (gifteds/wolves in one family) is a bad idea, and it would be rather odd for the present EW to do as the past GW did. Hmm.

[the phantom]

And Phantom, why DIDN'T you vote yesterday?
See post #248.
Why did Volo and Kit die?
I'll try and look at that later. Not sure if I'll get to it tonight or if I'll have to do it in the morning.
Whoa. the phantom is just about the only person I know with Seer-hunting capabilities like this.
Ha ha! Thanks, sweetie. ;)

But Seer hunting skills are pretty much worthless in this village- at least while the Wizards are still around. There's no need for the Seer to drop hints and such, or even indicate that he knows anything about anyone, for his dreams will survive him with the GW.
I'm a wee bit certain I'm engaged to a wizard, but we'll see.
Now that would possibly be even more fun than switching sides! More pressure and all, but still fun no doubt. So much power... mwu ha ha ha!!

Hmm... Let's think here... if I am indeed a Wizard and your finger-pointing leads the other Wizard to discover me... well, that seems almost suicidal on your part, cause you know I'd feel like killing you then.

So that makes me think you don't really believe it, or that you wouldn't mind dying to expose a Wizard. But which one do you think you are exposing, eh? If you think I'm the GW then you're probably evil. If you think I'm the EW then you must be aware that I will kill you, thus I seriously doubt that you are gifted (a gifted would not take that sort of risk).

So that makes you an excellent lynch choice by my book. Tread carefully, dearie. I don't particularly want my fiance dead.

[satansaloser2005]

See post #248.

I'll try and look at that later. Not sure if I'll get to it tonight or if I'll have to do it in the morning.

Ha ha! Thanks, sweetie. ;)

But Seer hunting skills are pretty much worthless in this village- at least while the Wizards are still around. There's no need for the Seer to drop hints and such, or even indicate that he knows anything about anyone, for his dreams will survive him with the GW.

Now that would possibly be even more fun than switching sides! More pressure and all, but still fun no doubt. So much power... mwu ha ha ha!!

Hmm... Let's think here... if I am indeed a Wizard and your finger-pointing leads the other Wizard to discover me... well, that seems almost suicidal on your part, cause you know I'd feel like killing you then.

So that makes me think you don't really believe it, or that you wouldn't mind dying to expose a Wizard. But which one do you think you are exposing, eh? If you think I'm the GW then you're probably evil. If you think I'm the EW then you must be aware that I will kill you, thus I seriously doubt that you are gifted (a gifted would not take that sort of risk).

So that makes you an excellent lynch choice by my book. Tread carefully, dearie. I don't particularly want my fiance dead.


You leave my cousin alone....cousin! (crud, this is difficult....:p)

Thanks for clearing up your no-vote. Sorry I didn't see it earlier; I'm a bit tired tonight.

Randomly, Phantom, how's the weather shaping up for you? The windows keep shaking over here, but my friends aren't watching the weather anymore.

[Diamond18]

First of all, my little cousin Di should lay off the wax....like seriously....

But I like wax. It makes me feel so alive.

There were no NIGHT activity (Seer dream, etc.) on NIGHT 1, so last NIGHT was supposed to be the first dream.

Hnuh? But the Good Wizard did Scry hin on Night 1, right? If he didn't get to then dream, what's the point? It's like getting a badge that says I'm A Seer, Ask Me How but not getting to actually be the Seer yet.

I'm digging deep into the foggy recesses of my brain to remember if Seers generally get a first Night dream, or not. I thought they did.

[the phantom]

Thanks for clearing up your no-vote. Sorry I didn't see it earlier; I'm a bit tired tonight.
No problem.
Randomly, Phantom, how's the weather shaping up for you?
Looking at the radar, it appears pretty much everything beneath I80 is getting pounded. It's been pretty good here though. The bad stuff just can't seem to push up this far. I'm probably sleeping in the basement just in case though.

On the Seer dream issue, I seem to remember in the last dueling wizard game that the Seer did dream on Night 1.

[Durelin]

Yeah, seems sucky to me, too, but:

- There is no "action" on Night1: no wolf kills, no dreams, no protections (the hunter should send me her hunt though as that will take place if she dies lynched on Day1). Only discussions within the limits the wizards allow it.

[the phantom]

Wait- never mind... there was no Seer on night 1 in the last game. There was a same-person scry.

[satansaloser2005]

But I like wax. It makes me feel so alive.

*takes Di's wax* Celuien, don't let her in your shop, all right? As her older cousin, I feel the need to protect Di from....herself. *chuckles* Oh, and what do you have in the line of scented candles? I have a wax fetish myself, albeit of a different variety.

Hnuh? But the Good Wizard did Scry hin on Night 1, right? If he didn't get to then dream, what's the point? It's like getting a badge that says I'm A Seer, Ask Me How but not getting to actually be the Seer yet.

I'm digging deep into the foggy recesses of my brain to remember if Seers generally get a first Night dream, or not. I thought they did.


Normally yes. But in this case, I think (repeat I think....Father and I may be wrong) the gifteds/wolves were scried the first night just to give them a chance to plan (if their Wizards allowed them to do so) and for the Wizards to set up their plans and play with their minions' heads.

[the phantom]

The difference is that in this game we started with a full compliment of gifteds, thus a Seer dream is not really necessary, for the GW already knows the identity of three villagers. I imagine that's why there was no dream.

[satansaloser2005]

Just kidding....what they said.... *shifty eyes*

[Brinniel]

Oh, before I forget - Brinn was quite right and I was quite silly yesterDay. When I came back about 40 minutes before the deadline I really...skimmed the posts posted while I was away. I totally missed your stuff about Aganzir. I kept thinking you had only posted twice, as you mentioned in your one post. Of course that was your third post...and I didn't read it all.
Heh, that's okay. Sometimes I wonder if anyone reads my posts... :p

I'm going to look at where that Nerwen suspicion started, since she didn't ring any alarm bells from me the first time through.
That would be Cailin with this quote:

This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.

I already mentioned my thoughts on Cailin and I do think she's a bit suspicious. And it doesn't help now that Nerwen's been proven innocent.

[Roa_Aoife]

You know, I'm really curious about all these people who say, "Phantom can't be a wolf- he's too noisy/loud/obvious/whatever." Since when has NOT been that way, wolf or not? But I have seen him as both, and I've seen him take a real leadership role and really help out the village... when he's a good guy. I've seen him be loud and distracting and post erroneously... when he's a bad guy. Phantom is nothing if not bold, no matter what role he has.

And I'll add this- last Dueling Wizard's game, I looked at phantom with two options: wolf or dead. I erred on the side of caution and picked dead. I don't believe this EW is the same. And phantom's posting thus far had really convinced me that he is not on the villagers' side, whatever his role may be.

Also, on the point of the deaths of Volo and Kitanna- it is more likely that they were killed because the EW believed them likely scries by the GW, and she picked correctly for one of them. I hope for the sake of our gifteds that the GW is scattering his choices around abit, and not sticking to players of certain qualities.

Okay, now I'm really going to look through Day 1 (I have a handy dandy chart!).

[Gwathagor]

I still say it's possible to find connections, as the EW may force them to act contrary to their normal playing style; then again, maybe not. It's worth a shot though, in any case.

This quote yesterday from Sally seemed way too...sane and middle-of-the-road for her, which made me very suspicious. However, she seems to have reverted to her usual lunatic posting style sometime during the Night, because today she sounds completely normal. I don't know if there's anything in it, or if yesterDay was a fluke.

Eonwe's vote for the phantom yesterDay in post #156 is just plain surreal. First, he called out Roa for voting tp after she had criticized sally for doing the same, then after a bandwagon had begun to develop around tp, Eonwe goes and votes against tp himself, backing his vote up with a statement which is impossible to prove (either true or false) and a cocky, empty accusation (which tp seemed to find funny...though he has been laughing an awful lot). In this, Eonwe looks like an inexperienced and clumsy wolf who is not doing a good job of blending in, who is trying to simultaneously be casual, critical, and bold.

I must agree, however, with Eonwe that Roa looks awfully bad for criticizing sally's vote against tp shortly before voting against him herself in post #122. And as much as I didn't like she and tp dominating the discussion yesterday, it's bothering me even more how tp is continuing to do so today. Five posts already today, I think? It seems unhealthy for the village to hear so much of one voice.

Diamond18's post #208 is problematic, first because it provides little/poor reasoning behind her vote against the innocent Nerwen (though, obviously, she could only have known Nerwen was innocent if Di were a Wizard), and second, because in it she appears to be trying to be neither good nor bad, and we all know that You're Gonna Have To Serve Somebody. There isn't the middle road that she claims to be walking.

I really don't like the inordinate number of supposedly random votes. It may simply be a product of having a huge village, because it's hard to get one's sights on any one particular person, but I still don't like it.

I don't think I've played with Lalaith before, so perhaps this is just her posting style, BUT yesterDay her posts seemed far too chipper, matter-of-fact, friendly, and generally unhelpful for her to be genuine. Like I said, maybe that's just my bad first impression, but I'm going to watch and see if it persists toDay.

Ok. Sorry about the laundry list. I just went through and typed my notes from yesterDay.

EDIT: I crossed with about fifty people, I don't even know where it starts. But I see that tp posted some more... :(

[Roa_Aoife]

I must agree, however, with Eonwe that Roa looks awfully bad for criticizing sally's vote against tp shortly before voting against him herself in post #122.

I gave continuous reasons for believing phantom to be a baddie. I backed up with posts and reasoning. Sally did not. Her vote appeared almost random. I am not like some people *coughMaccough* who only distrust people who don't agree with them. I don't care if you agree with me or not. If you don't have good reasoning, or your reasoning is clearly faulty, I will suspect you. It's as simple as that. I'm not convinced that Sally truly thought phantom was guilty, or that she wasn't trying to start something in that direction.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Many people before me have made their own voting lists already; my daughter even made one with timestamps. But I want to create my own list, so I can draw ideas from them as I go along. People can say anything they like, but when one makes a vote, one commits to either a person's lynching or salvation.

Problem is, we don't know if the wolves do know each other. Many cases have been made for this, but . . . what if they do know each other? (It makes them more effective by DAY, after all, and if caught, they can explain away whatever connexions come up by saying that they can't be lupine connexions, since the wolves wouldn't know each other.) What if those saying or agreeing to the impossibility of three talking wolves are actually wolves themselves?

Hence, I will go on with my analysis. Since we only have three villagers whose roles are known, I'll focus my analysis on voting motives (why they voted) of people who joined bandwaggons (which are created to kill, after all). Times are GMT + 8. Known innocents are underlined.

08:26pm morm - Brinn (Brinn - 1)
10:24pm Sally - tp (Brinn - 1, tp - 1)
10:54pm Gwath - Sally (Brinn - 1, tp - 1, Sally - 1)
02:25am Kit - morm (Brinn - 1, tp - 1, Sally - 1, morm - 1)
03:34am Nerwen - Cailín (Brinn - 1, tp - 1, Sally - 1, morm - 1, Cailín - 1)
03:48am Roa - tp (Brinn - 1, tp - 2, Sally - 1, morm - 1, Cailín - 1)
04:44am Celu - Izzy (Brinn - 1, tp - 2, Sally - 1, morm - 1, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1)
05:22am Rikae - morm (Brinn - 1, tp - 2, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1)
05:26am Izzy - Roa (Brinn - 1, tp - 2, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1)
05:30am Shasta - tp (Brinn - 1, tp - 3, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1)
05:43am Eönwë - tp (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1)
05:56am Cailín - Nerwen (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 1)
05:57am Ka - Celu (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 1, Celu - 1)
06:00am Greenie - Gwath (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 1, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1)
06:09am McCaber - Nerwen (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 2, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1)
06:10am Mac - Legate (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 2, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1)
06:15am Lal - Nerwen (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 3, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1)
06:28am Durelin - Nerwen (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 4, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1)
06:43am Lommy - Agan (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 4, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1, Agan - 1)
06:45am Di - Nerwen (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 5, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1, Agan - 1)
06:46am Volo - Agan (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 5, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1, Agan - 2)
06:53am Brinn - Agan (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 5, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1, Agan - 3)
06:57am Legate - Agan (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 5, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1, Agan - 4)
06:59am Agan - Nerwen (Brinn - 1, tp - 4, Sally - 1, morm - 2, Cailín - 1, Izzy - 1, Roa - 1, Nerwen - 6, Celu - 1, Gwath - 1, Legate - 1, Agan - 4)

Bandwaggons:

The Fantine bandwaggon came up quite early, and it was not sudden - Fantine was being his usual self, provoking strong (often negative) reaction from the villagers. Interesting was Eönwë's vote (q.v. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557342&postcount=156)), and his previous post (q.v. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557314&postcount=130).) He has made one other post in the game, an in-character one. Nowhere do I see how he came to be suspicious of Fantine's motives 'the whole time'.
The Nerwen bandwaggon was started by Cailín, who accused her of seeming to be helpful, but actually contributing nothing (qq.v. 105 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557288&postcount=105), 165 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557352&postcount=165)). Most of the other who joined it, however, have less than concrete reasons for doing so (qq.v. McCaber's 175 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557362&postcount=175), Di's 208 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557397&postcount=208).)
The Agan bandwaggon was started near the end of DAY 1 by Lommy, who thought Agan to be suspicious from the very beginning, but thought that voting for her would end up being a waste (qq.v. 183 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557372&postcount=183), 205 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557394&postcount=205).) It is the least suspicious bandwaggon to me.


More later.

[Lhunardawen]

You know, I'm really curious about all these people who say, "Phantom can't be a wolf- he's too noisy/loud/obvious/whatever." Since when has NOT been that way, wolf or not? But I have seen him as both, and I've seen him take a real leadership role and really help out the village... when he's a good guy. I've seen him be loud and distracting and post erroneously... when he's a bad guy. Phantom is nothing if not bold, no matter what role he has.
My reason is that I'm quite convinced that whoever the EW is, she would want to pick wolves who can stay alive longer. the phantom is a relatively easy lynch target. I mean, if I had my way, I would have him lynched now just to be sure of his allegiance. This is one reason I think he might be a wizard, because he posts as if he has nothing to lose by getting himself lynched. (But hmm, the same could be said of some ordinary villagers.)

But then, the EW might have assumed he would not be lynched because
1. the villagers would think as I thought
2. the phantom is just so much fun to be around

and turned him into a wolf. Tada! Instant protection.

You know, phantom, this is why I love you so much. You're so enigmatic.

And no, my dear, I will speculate as much as I want - I have nothing to lose. I'm an ordinary villager. Go ahead and lynch me. :p

[Gwathagor]

Thanks, that's helpful.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I clicked 'Submit Reply' accidentally with the above post.

[Gwathagor]

Now that's suspicious. :p

[satansaloser2005]

I gave continuous reasons for believing phantom to be a baddie. I backed up with posts and reasoning. Sally did not. Her vote appeared almost random. I am not like some people *coughMaccough* who only distrust people who don't agree with them. I don't care if you agree with me or not. If you don't have good reasoning, or your reasoning is clearly faulty, I will suspect you. It's as simple as that. I'm not convinced that Sally truly thought phantom was guilty, or that she wasn't trying to start something in that direction.



Honestly, you're sort of right. I'm not used to Phantom's behavior, and from anyone else it would scream "vote me vote me" so I did. I didn't expect him to get lynched (and at the moment I'm happy he didn't; if nothing else he's entertaining) but of the people whose posts I had time to look at, he looked the most suspicious at the time. I'll try to be more careful with my votes in the future though.



Oh, and for Gwath. Don't expect typical Silly Sally this game, at least not as much. Much less time on the interwebs, so I don't have as much opportunity to respond; hence the short posts and lack of explanation for yesterday's vote. This is my big chunk of internet; most of the time I've got about ten or fifteen minutes. Just a warning for all of you who expect a completely crazed and cracked Sally; I don't have time to be entertaining, at least not right now. Doing my best though, loves. :) Not defending my actions, just letting you know what's going on. And in my defense, I did warn that I wouldn't be particularly participative during the game.


EDIT: x'd with everyone since my potential future mother-in-law

[satansaloser2005]

I clicked 'Submit Reply' accidentally with the above post.

Dork.


Ummmm, I mean, silly father of mine. Perhaps you need some sleep? I could fetch you some tea....special tea....Hold up. Who's laughing maniacally in the distance?

[Gwathagor]

hence the short posts and lack of explanation for yesterday's vote.

Strangely enough, that wasn't what bothered me. :rolleyes: It was that "maybe, maybe not" thing from yesterDay that made me raise my eyebrows.

[Durelin]

So that makes me think you don't really believe it, or that you wouldn't mind dying to expose a Wizard. But which one do you think you are exposing, eh? If you think I'm the GW then you're probably evil. If you think I'm the EW then you must be aware that I will kill you, thus I seriously doubt that you are gifted (a gifted would not take that sort of risk).

At first I didn't think this made sense, but now I realize it did.

Huh, was reading over, and realized that Lommy, Greenie, and Volo all three had suspicion of Aganzir. :D

Volo openly agreed with Lommy (and we know now he was the seer, yeah, whatever), but Greenie simply tosses this in about Aganzir, while remaining on her general course towards voting for Gwath:

(there is something in her overall manner that just doesn't sit right with me).

Agan is definitely not sitting right with me. Really. There's something too... cunning and sneaky in her manner.

It's interesting. I think Lommy did some good leading/planting of ideas there.

Oh, and yeah, I started talking about Nerwen fairly early on, too, along with Cailin.

Not defending my actions, just letting you know what's going on. And in my defense, I did warn that I wouldn't be particularly participative during the game.

Hehe.

[satansaloser2005]

Blast! I don't want to vote this early, but I'm not positive I'll have internet during work tomorrow (on the off chance the people whose wireless I mooch from have problems with it or something). But I'm not voting this early again, at least not toDay. But I need to leave my friends alone; I need to get back home and take care of things while I've still got power to do it.

I'll hang around for a bit, but if I don't post again before they kick me out, g'night.

[satansaloser2005]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sally
Not defending my actions, just letting you know what's going on. And in my defense, I did warn that I wouldn't be particularly participative during the game.

Hehe.

Hehe. I know, I read that post and facepalmed about six times. You know what I mean though, DurIE dear. ;)

[Diamond18]

What is with all the vote recaps?

It doesn't matter how many times different people recap the votes, they're not changing.

*stares at the screen for a moment*

Nope, still the same.

It's like.... "Let's all post the exact same information, but with different formatting!"

:rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

What is with all the vote recaps?

It doesn't matter how many times different people recap the votes, they're not changing.
*stares at the screen for a moment*

Nope, still the same.

It's like.... "Let's all post the exact same information, but with different formatting!"

:rolleyes:



Di, when you're older, you'll understand that adults like to make themselves look important. Restating information in a different yet useless manner is one of the ways to do so.

[the phantom]

The voting, in case you haven't seen it lately-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner
Lommy for Agan
Di for Ner
Volo for Agan
Brin for Agan
Legate for Agan
Agan for Ner

Ner- 6
tp- 4
Agan- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1

[satansaloser2005]

The voting, in case you haven't seen it lately-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner
Lommy for Agan
Di for Ner
Volo for Agan
Brin for Agan
Legate for Agan
Agan for Ner

Ner- 6
tp- 4
Agan- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1




:mad:I hate you....:mad:



:p

[Roa_Aoife]

phantom, this is one of those unhelpful things I was mentioning yesterDay.....:p

[Durelin]

The voting, in case you haven't seen it lately-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner
Lommy for Agan
Di for Ner
Volo for Agan
Brin for Agan
Legate for Agan
Agan for Ner

Ner- 6
tp- 4
Agan- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1

:mad:I hate you....:mad:



:p

Such hostility.

[the phantom]

I really feel like I'm stuck in a jam with Roa.

The more she goes after me the more I feel like I should fight with her, and yet at the same time the more I am inclined to believe that she is innocent.

What to do?
And phantom's posting thus far had really convinced me that he is not on the villagers' side, whatever his role may be.
Which villagers? We all live here don't we? :p

But your point about an EW picking me- I can't see anything wrong with your logic. Lhuna's as well.

However, do you truly believe that Sally was "trying to start something in that (my) direction"? If so, then that would speak towards my innocence. Which one do you feel more strongly?

[satansaloser2005]

EDIT: the following is for Durie. Blasted x'posting Phantom. :p

Indeed. Hey, you know you're thinking it too.



All right, that's enough for now. I'm out for the night. Hope to be back sometime tomorrow around lunchtime (4 hours pre-DL or so) and vote, so give me something concrete to base it on (i.e. "I'm a wolf, lynch me, kthxbye")

Good night everyone!

[Lhunardawen]

Watch it, sally. :p

phantom dear, it's actually easier on the eyes. Thanks, love. :D

Gee, I crossposted with a million people.

[the phantom]

phantom, this is one of those unhelpful things I was mentioning yesterDay.....:p
Heh heh... but notice that my unhelpful stuff is always quite amusing, and completely and blatantly on purpose. Surely that gets me some points?

G'nite Sally. I'm going pretty soon too.

[Brinniel]

Just some things on yesterDay:

Of those I've seen acting suspicious, he's the most submarine-like.
I feel kinda stupid for asking this, but what exactly do you mean by "submarine-like"? Maybe you've already explained this, but with six pages of Day 1 I'm bound to miss something...

Actually, Lommy made a very good point about Agan. She [Agan] certainly tosses suspicions that way and this way and banters an unnerving ammount of time. At points I'm not sure whether she's joking or not, and that I regard dangerous, because she can always decide later which way she meant it. Ok - maybe I'm only complaining that she's joking at all as I'm refering to her suspicions in #68.
But what is more suspicious is her answer to Lommy's suspicion. I don't think it makes a difference and it certainly doesn't work as a defence.
I think I missed this post yesterDay, but it's a good quote on how I also feel about Aganzir. Especially about the bantering...what Volo wrote here is how I feel but was unable to put into exact words.

When it comes to suspicious voting, Eonwe, Shasta, Izzy, McCaber, and Legate stick out to me.

I do agree Eonwe's vote isn't very well reasoned. But I think this is his first game (am I right?). So this could easily be a newbie error...though such a mistake can be made by both a wolf and an ordo.

Shasta and McCaber also bandwagon (for different people) in their votes with not much reason to back it up.

Izzy's vote for Roa felt like it came from nowhere. I couldn't find anywhere else where she strongly suspected her...but maybe I missed it...

And my dear brother Legate...voting for Aganzir but not wanting her lynched is very odd. And his explanation for it confused me even more. (Hmm...maybe it's because old love never dies ;) ) But as suspicious as it is...I wonder if it's too suspicious. I mean, would a wolf actually act in such a way? Only if the EW told him to...

Sidenote: What's with all this silliness going on? I admit I find it funny now, but I have the feeling this is going to get annoying in the near future when I'll have to do twice as much scrolling as normal when reviewing past posts... :rolleyes:

[Diamond18]

See?

With a brother like that, who can blame me for developing a wax addiction.


...and we all know that You're Gonna Have To Serve Somebody.

I like to think of myself as self-serving.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sidenote: What's with all this silliness going on? I admit I find it funny now, but I have the feeling this is going to get annoying in the near future when I'll have to do twice as much scrolling as normal when reviewing past posts...

It's already annoying to me, :P. I won't lie, that was part of the reason behind my vote. Most of it, though, was the simple fact that even if Phantom is innocent, he doesn't seem to be helping very much. I wonder (assuming he's a wolf) if the EW didn't tell him to draw as much attention from everyone as he can... it certainly seems to be a possibility, given that most of the recent discussion has revolved around him.

[Roa_Aoife]

However, do you truly believe that Sally was "trying to start something in that (my) direction"? If so, then that would speak towards my innocence. Which one do you feel more strongly?

No, the two are not mutually exclusive, especially if you are both wolves who don't know each other, or Sally is wolf who doesn't realize you are the EW, or she's the EW and she just wants to kill you to look good (as I did with Nogrod in the previous DW). So, once again, you post faulty logic in an attempt to clear yourself.

And how many times have we seen the "I know you suspect me, but I think your just a mistaken innocent," line from a wolf trying to not appear overly defensive?

[Roa_Aoife]

And to add to my above post, even if Sally is evil and knows your identity, since when have fellow baddies NOT suspected each other or cast an early vote that may or may not get said fellow lynched? I mean, it's one of the most common tactics.

Really, phantom, you have to come up with better than that...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Now that's suspicious. :pYes, it is. Glad we understand each other. :D

I also happen to be the WIZARD OF APATHY. ;)

[Lhunardawen]

Yes, it is. Glad we understand each other. :D

I also happen to be the WIZARD OF APATHY. ;)
Hey, I thought you're the Wizard of Insanity?

Fine.

I'm the Wizard of Insanity. I challenge you to a duel.

[Durelin]

This is going back a bit, but...

Oh but this is a very good point. Where is her characteristic cheer and carelessness? Is it just because this so different from any other game she's played this far, or are there more sinister reasons behind this?

I don't like this that much. Not sure why, but following someone with a suspicion like that... my dear sally does not seem suspicious in any way, she is behaving like she's always, and also she simply voted and that's it. Nothing weird there.

I quite agree that I don't like that much, either, but not because I think sally seems innocent or normal or whatever, but because those lines are just so...so typical. A question, not really a statement. Off-handed. A devil-may-care accusation, when she said Aganzir was suspicious seeming for making accusations in such a way.

Hmm. It's after 1 in the morning.

I think I missed this post yesterDay, but it's a good quote on how I also feel about Aganzir. Especially about the bantering...what Volo wrote here is how I feel but was unable to put into exact words.

Hmm...now that you know he's the seer, you totally know how he feels... :p

I am almost positive Eonwe has played before. To add to your list, Celuien also made a random vote, as she said so herself. Really all of those are examples of 'submarines'. Little posting, slip by unnoticed.

I think I'm just going to sit back and watch phantom and Roa go at it now. Or sleep.

[the phantom]

Okay, it's time for me to get a little bit serious here....
or she's the EW and she just wants to kill you to look good
And to add to my above post, even if Sally is evil and knows your identity, since when have fellow baddies NOT suspected each other or cast an early vote that may or may not get said fellow lynched? I mean, it's one of the most common tactics.
N...O.... NO.

Not at that stage of the game.

No way.

The goal for the EW and WWs was to not get any of their team lynched yesterday, for if they were successful it would mean likely getting an extra kill the next night and every night after that.

Day 1 was not the day to pull stunts. Absolutely not.

You can try to rationalize my explanation away any way you wish, but if you sit there and read what I say and think about the odds and percentages, what I'm saying here is correct. The EW and WWs had an excellent chance of skating by on Day 1, and the reward for doing it would be an extra nightly kill. There is NO WAY they pass that up.

At least not if they think even remotely the way I do.
especially if you are both wolves who don't know each other
That wouldn't happen. The EW no doubt gave the WWs some sort of lynching instructions. A safe list or something, or perhaps different lists to different WWs. Either way, I have no doubt that the EW took steps to ensure that the WWs had as high a chance as possible of surviving Day 1.

If you bring up this issue again I'll simply link you back to this post.

[THE Ka]

EDIT: mistakenly italicized Ka....whoops!

Awh, I felt so loved for a moment. (no worries, I wasn't around to see my blessed innocence).


4. Lynch her! Dance in her blood!

Hey, hey... Family standing right here.

Nah, it's cool. Agan will probably kill me in my sleep eventually.

Bingo. Since I was at risk, I was holding my vote till the very end.

At moments, this all reminds me you could be a very clever cat.


Anyways, back to posts.

Legate's flustered vote at the end reminds me of (I'm not 100% sure on this, so if you know for sure please correct me. Aganzir should know, we squared off together:p) a few of Volo's WW's back where he turned out to be a gifted and was unfortunately killed by wolves that second Night. I believe he had a similar situation of voting, and being considered suspicious for it as well. While I cannot be completely certain that this was the case this time, I'm going to find it a bit hard to place suspicion on him simply for first-day indecisiveness (world knows I'm 'guilty' of it as well, take Legate's last WW for an example. I don't even think I voted the first day because I hadn't a clue).
Simply put, first days are never worth their trouble until afterwards, and unfortunately being hesitant is more likely to have you killed than being rash. I'd rather read more of his posts and see toDay how things go.
I still have three more pages to sift through.

I find it highly amusing that I tend to survive as a wolf and be suspected as an innocent.


I'd rather trust Lommy (or not, if you're somehow covering for herhttp://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/p/paranoid.gif) on this than myself, but from personal experiences with Aganzir the wolf and innocent this is typical. Though, maybe I might be blinded a bit, but I distinctly remember the first time I played with her (yes, a wolf) she was a bit more subtle around voting time. If I was out harvesting likely wolves to act in my best interest I'd definately pick Agan because she's a natural, but not immediately because it is likely there would be suspicion. I'd rather save my best wolf for last, when everyone's gotten, scryed, etc. to the point where thinking someone is an actual wolf is old news. Save time and wolfy abilities and recruit a player like Agan 'till later... Unless she was the EW, then well, things obviously would be far different.

I don't really understand this Nerwen bandwagon, and I'd rather let her live.

Obviously stuck out to me, but for all I know this could be fodder for either argument that she's innocent or not.

I'm still sizing her motives now, but so far she seems her usual self, or just more open.

Gwath is oddly quiet, I would have expected more from him by now, but I won't presume too much. (Nor let you fly right under the radar so easily if you don't mean well...)

Now it's time to question myself!
I thought Celuien was acting rather suspicious yesterday with contradictory arguments so soon between posts, but after reading the discussion thread I feel rather bratty for the vote considering how busy they were with moving at the moment (plus, obviously an EW would want more available wolves to channel the rest of us where they want us, durrrr.). Still somewhat suspicious naturally, but I can see I did absolutely nothing costructive and threw everything to the wind.

It's like.... "Let's all post the exact same information, but with different formatting!"

Vista comes to WW...

I'm still trying to form some reasonable theory for Volo's killing besides the possibility of being found out (a stretch too?), and so far I only can surmise reasons on his behavior (oddly, cheery and a bit well seated, but I guess anyone being a seer would have some hope of confidence).
I'll try looking again in the morning and after spending a sleepless night mulling over the whole ordeal and see if anything comes out of it, though I can guess everyone else will know before I do which is a good sign. :p
See you in the morning.

[Gwathagor]

THE Ka: I've been quieter than usual. My job keeps me busy during the day (and through the DL) and random other stuff (movies, grandparents, dishes) has taken up a lot of time in the evenings.

And, I'm going to have to vote way early again because I won't be around for the deadline.

[Roa_Aoife]

Finally, you get serious, phantom. I've been wanting that from you.

You may be right in that the EW would not want to risk it. But I was the EW, and I did risk it. Heck, I was down a wolf (due to the double pick fiasco) and I still did it. So your definite "NO" is definitely not definite.

Also, I don't know why you are so certain that the EW gave her wolves possible lynch candidates. I never did, and my wolves did just fine. The GW did something like that for the entire village, but only after his role had been revealed. In fact, I even encouraged my wolves to lynch as they liked. Someone acts suspiciously? Lynch them! It makes the wolves harder to trace because they aren't having to lie about their suspicions. So, really, your whole hypothesis does not match up to previous experience.

Furthermore, even if we had a "playing it safe" EW (a possibility), it does not disclude the other two possibilities: a. that you and Sally are both wolves who don't know it, or b. that sally is a wolf who doesn't realize you are the EW.

Still further, were you the EW, I would not expect you to kill people who suspected you, as your exceptionally thinly veiled threat towards Lhuna implied.

Edit: crossed posted with Ka and Gwath

[Diamond18]

N...O.... NO.

Not at that stage of the game.

No way.

This whole diatribe (edited because I dislike gigantic quotes) seems kind of funny, in light of the fact that Roa did exactly that in the last game with Nogrod. And won.

Xposted with Roa. See? My memory isn't faulty. Ha!

[the phantom]

Yes, you did it in the last DW village, but you couldn't gain an immediate extra kill that night either.

And obviously, as I now see, you must not think/play/plan even remotely the same way I do.

To sum myself up- I am logical.

I look and see "What do you know- the odds say we will lynch an innocent on Day 1, and if that happens, we gain an extra kill! And the odds say that the village/GW probably can't hope to be right more than 50% of the time, thus by simply surviving Day 1 we likely gain an extra kill EVERY SINGLE NIGHT!"

Ask anyone who has been a WW with me before, or read my pms post-game. When I am a WW I never ever want to sacrifice another WW even in a regular game because it adds an extra day to the village. You sacrifice a WW when he's been dreamed of or if he's already as good as dead. That's it. Always protect your brother and sister Wolves if you can. And if it gets you caught then you just didn't play well enough.
So your definite "NO" is definitely not definite.
It is for me. And this is about me, is it not?

How can you honestly believe that an EW would pass up the chance to gain extra kills from Night 2 onward just to pull some stupid stunt? What a terrible trade off! "Hee hee, yeah, let's purposefully kill a WW and miss out on like four free kills! That sounds smart!"

Seriously. The thought literally boggles my mind. It almost makes me angry to hear someone suggest that it might've been a good idea yesterday.

[Roa_Aoife]

Yes, you did it in the last DW village, but you couldn't gain an immediate extra kill that night either.

And obviously, as I now see, you must not think/play/plan even remotely the same way I do.

To sum myself up- I am logical.

When you choose to be, yes, but you haven't been this game. And no, I am different from you.

I look and see "What do you know- the odds say we will lynch an innocent on Day 1, and if that happens, we gain an extra kill! And the odds say that the village/GW probably can't hope to be right more than 50% of the time, thus by simply surviving Day 1 we likely gain an extra kill EVERY SINGLE NIGHT!"

That's very nice, it's true. However, there are more options than that available. The EW may be willing to give up that extra kill for one Night in order to act out another more sinister plan. Not all of us think that simply, and it's folly to suggest that the current EW must think that way.

Ask anyone who has been a WW with me before, or read my pms post-game. When I am a WW I never ever want to sacrifice another WW even in a regular game because it adds an extra day to the village. You sacrifice a WW when he's been dreamed of or if he's already as good as dead. That's it. Always protect your brother and sister Wolves if you can. And if it gets you caught then you just didn't play well enough.

You see, if you read my pms post game, I encourage my fellows to sacrifice me if necessary, and let them know that I will do the same. And you will see that no one has ever been able figure out who my fellows are after I die. But this isn't about who has what style or even which style is better. It's about making assumptions about the EW's behavior which have little backing other than your own preference, which the EW may or may not share. So, you can't expect us to rule out this possibility just because you wouldn't do it.


It is for me. And this is about me, is it not?

Actually in the post you're quoting, I was specifically talking about what the EW may possibly do. So it's not about you unless you're the EW. Are you?

How can you honestly believe that an EW would pass up the chance to gain extra kills from Night 2 onward just to pull some stupid stunt? What a terrible trade off! "Hee hee, yeah, let's purposefully kill a WW and miss out on like four free kills! That sounds smart!"

Because I did when I was the EW. And, if you weren't paying attention that game, I won. So, it does sound smart, in fact. You're thinking only in statistics, but this game is not about statistics. Personality has far more effect in this game.

Seriously. The thought literally boggles my mind. It almost makes me angry to hear someone suggest that it might've been a good idea yesterday.

Then what I did to Nogrod must have soundly ticked you off. You're right to say it's a risk. It is also a risk I chose to take, and so I would not exclude the idea of someone else taking that same risk. You keep saying it's not possible. You could only know that if you were the EW.

[Cailín]

So they got a Seer. Bad luck? Or something more? I suppose the evil team were trying to guess who the gifteds were -- considering who a wizard might choose, and also perhaps any subtle hints within their words. I'm not sure what these would be but let's have a look. (Mind you, it's also likely wolves wouldn't want a kill that leads back to them).

Volo

#9 role-playing

#55 madness, madness! and dangerous, dangerous! Funny stuff from Volo, but could it be interpreted as a sign?

#84 Numerous vague suspicions: Green, sally, phantom, Celuien, Cailin.

#85 Mentions his typo ''We Wolves''. Maybe mind is stretching too much here but could that be interpreted in a different way?

#114 Nothing really

#128 Chastises Lalaith somewhat

#133 Questions Legate

#150 Suspects Aganzir, but also agrees with Aganzir in suspecting Legate

#154 Defends phantom

#159 Questions Eonwe

#163, 173 Nothing of note

#194 Speculation about wizard choices (and #201 I suppose)

#209 Votes Aganzir

(Plus 3 other joke posts)

Kitanna

#13 role-playing

#60 she uses the word ''blind'' Interpreted as hint?

#93 ''Random vote'' for Mormegil


I can't immediately see too much in there but I'll think on it.

Apologies to Nerwen, who turned out to be sweet and innocent. I must say I was a bit flabbergasted at the way people followed my vote though.

I have one more, possibly crackpot, theory at the moment, but it's one of those that requires the day to play out; so I won't reveal it yet. Let's just say someone else is looking mighty suspicious to me today.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The dork has filled in properly the product of his lack of proper muscular control here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=557574#post557574).

[the phantom]

I am logical.
When you choose to be, yes, but you haven't been this game.
You don't know that. ;)

You may think I'm being illogical. But perhaps someone who has been in a great great many games with me (morm for instance) might be thinking, "It looks illogical, but I know that he must think he is accomplishing something."
You see, if you read my pms post game, I encourage my fellows to sacrifice me if necessary, and let them know that I will do the same.
The key word is necessary.
You're thinking only in statistics, but this game is not about statistics. Personality has far more effect in this game.
So, by saying personality has more effect you are admitting that statistics matter too.

They both have a place, and the best position to be in is to have both on your side. Always play the percentages- but with personality. ;)
You keep saying it's not possible. You could only know that if you were the EW.
What I'm saying is- it's not possible if I was involved in any way.

If I'm not the EW or a WW then yes, it's possible that such a ploy was used yesterday. Though in my opinion it was lucky for the EW that it didn't work.

[the phantom]

Anyway, it's almost 2 and I have to get up early for work. I'll try and check in then but I won't really be able to post much till around lunch time (6 hours before the deadline).

If you want to continue suspecting me, Roa, go ahead, but please let this particular issue go. I literally find it insulting that someone would think I would make a decision like that- pass up several nights of free kills for a completely unnecessary stunt. So help me but if you continue on this I might just try and get you lynched despite the fact that I think you're probably innocent.

Plus, do you really expect the GW to leave me alone much longer if he didn't already scry me or dream me last night? Please. :rolleyes: You know good and well that the GW has been thinking about me more than anyone thus far. If I'm a WW he'll scry me back to the good side. If I'm the EW then you can't lynch me anyway and he'll challenge me on Day 4.

I'm sleepy. See you later.

[Roa_Aoife]

You don't know that. ;)

You may think I'm being illogical. But perhaps someone who has been in a great great many games with me (morm for instance) might be thinking, "It looks illogical, but I know that he must think he is accomplishing something."

I only know what I see, and what I see you post is bad for the village.

The key word is necessary.

And how do you know what the EW believes is necessary?

So, by saying personality has more effect you are admitting that statistics matter too.

They both have a place, and the best position to be in is to have both on your side. Always play the percentages- but with personality. ;)

You only use flat statistics to support your theories. You aren't using personality at all.

What I'm saying is- it's not possible if I was involved in any way.


I bet the EW would have something to say about that. She has complete control over you. If she chooses to sacrifice you, you have no say in the matter.

If I'm not the EW or a WW then yes, it's possible that such a ploy was used yesterday. Though in my opinion it was lucky for the EW that it didn't work.

And that's only an opinion. My opinion is that it's a worthwhile risk. We disagree. The EW may have yet another opinion. (Although mine is the one that's backed by evidence. :p)

Edit: cross posted with phantom. I don't think you're the EW, and I don't think you would make that decision. I think you're a wolf, and I think it's a possibility that the current EW did.

[Lhunardawen]

Thoughts on page 2 posts

Mac - said he didn't suspect Roa because he disagreed with her, but seems to have suspected those who agree with her as well.
I'm not sure what's worse: Volo making a statement that can be read as a wolf slip (but I remember an ancestor of him making a wolf slip while being innocent, too ), or A Little Green pointing out the quote - without any opinion of her own - in order to have the mob feast on it while keeping her own hands clean.
This suspicion makes me quite suspicious of him. It's too...stretchy.

Thank you for liking me, Legate, and apologies for not being able to return that sentiment.
Ring ring ring! Mac is in the red zone.

I still don't understand why some people thought Cailin's list to be suspicious. If that was her way of trying to identify the wolves, then it's her decision. I mean, come on, it's not as if the EW would follow her list. And if she is the EW and with that post tried to influence our lynch choice somewhat, it's not as if we would follow her list. At least she had a mind of her own, shared what's in it, and tried to help out in identifying possible wolves.

By the way, Volo's points (like that list 1.2.3.4. of his) make sense, however for some reason I have the feeling that he's not being himself.

Now here's the quote I was looking for! It makes me a bit more suspicious of Leggie (I already am because I think he's an excellent wolf choice) because it could be the reason Volo was killed. If he is thinking as an innocent as he plays, which I think is what should be done by a wolf, he could very well make this comment out loud. Or something. It made sense in my head.

Page 2 summary (I can't just quote everything and say "I agree" or "I disagree" and repeat points):
Mac is highly suspicious.
Legate is suspicious.
Agan and Cailin seem innocent.
Roa is helpful. Thank you, Ma'am.
Durelin feels dodgy.
Sally is quite scary.

Mind you, this is just page 2, so this could change.

[Lalaith]

I'm sorry, I've got to dash off to, um, a confectioners convention today, (see admin thread) and I'm already late.

Volo would not have dreamt anything the first night, would he? So there's no point going through his posts for Seer hints?

I am still uncomfortable about Aganzir from yesterday and wish I had the time to look at her posts more closely. There was flip-flopping going on, I think. Of course, I've never played with her before so don't know her playing style.
Sorry, I would like to post more thoughts but I just don't have time.

[Roa_Aoife]

The more I read, worse phantom seems (now that I'm really focusing). Aside from the post where he blatantly insists that looking for werewolves is a fruitless activity, there's more:

Shhh... don't pursue that subject any further.

You are right of course that the WWs might have been given certain... erm... directions... I don't want to be too specific here... I'd rather not have people start posting their thoughts on the matter (ie giving examples). It might be better just to watch for it, for mentioning a specific maneuver may cause the WWs not to use it, where as if we'd keep mum they might do it and then we can spot it if you see what I mean.

Here he actively discourages discussions by the villagers while admitting or even elaborating, if you will, on what the EW may have told the wolves. For example, telling a wolf to intentionally mislead the villagers or act in a cobblerish way. Especially if the EW has faith that this particular wolf would be able to bluff his way out of getting lycnhed.


First, the EW didn't actually pick his three WWs- he submitted a list of names, and three people off the list were randomly assigned to be WWs.

In addition, the "who" doesn't matter nearly so much as the "how many". If I was the EW I'd take six mediocre WWs over two brilliant ones any day. In other words the EW will simply pick people that he thinks are not likely to be scried or lynched. If he picks well then the game is his.

Sure, on one hand if he scries me then I can make all kinds of devilish suggestions etc, but if I'm a likely lynch/scry target then it isn't worth it.


In this post, phantom tries to make it seem as though the EW's werewolf choice was random, when it isn't. The list of candidates was not that long, and even if there was overlap, it's unlikely that it occured more than once. So, more faulty reasoning. Next, he states that the EW would probably pick safe wolves rather than brilliant ones, which conveniently discludes him as a candidate, a behavior I have always found suspicious. Finally, he admits that he could make devilish suggestions (such as he has been) if picked to be a wolf, but then down plays the idea as too risky. Because we all know that phantom often finds things to be to risky for his flavor. :rollseyes:


In post 91 (which is very long), he changes his story from "We should look for the EW" to:

Oh, and as far as deciding who we should try and lynch, the EW or WWs, does it really matter much who we gun for?

In my opinion we're just as likely to lynch a WW gunning for the EW as we are if we were actually trying to lynch a WW. It's not like we have any concrete knowledge to work with. On Day 1 in particular we're just taking a blind shot in the dark. Heck, if we'd purposefully try and lynch the Seer we'd probably have just as good a chance of lynching a WW.

A sudden shift after coming back to find that his previous statement had garnered more suspicion (and a vote). Then he posts some statistics that make seem as though it's better for an innocent to get lynched on Day 1 because it raises our chances of finding a wolf on Day 2.

Then in the same post:

This is the point I'm trying to make on the issue of finding WWs as opposed to finding the EW. If we find the EW early, we probably win. If we don't find the EW, it doesn't matter how many WWs we find, we'll still lose.

His next post says this:

Really? Hmm... don't you actually know Agan? If so then I'd be inclined to trust your opinion of her. Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.

But when the same idea is suggested against his favor, he says this:

N...O.... NO.

Not at that stage of the game.

No way.

The goal for the EW and WWs was to not get any of their team lynched yesterday, for if they were successful it would mean likely getting an extra kill the next night and every night after that.

Day 1 was not the day to pull stunts. Absolutely not.

Then there's posting like this:

But what does Agan think of Lommy?

And what do Rikae and Mac think about each other?

He avoids expressing opinions, but encourages others to look closely at each other, a behavior I have seen in very crafty wolves when they want to turn the village against itself while keeping out of the fray. (Anguiriel did this in my very first game, and phantom is at least as clever as he.)

Suppose that one of our extremely busy members is actually not that busy and has been lying through their teeth on the admin thread this whole time. If that is the case then essentially this game is already over, because we simply will not find them out because of the fact that we have to rule someone out!

After all he's said in favor of finding the EW, here he insinuates that finding the EW is fairly hopeless as well. So, we can't find wolves, and we can't find the EW, according to phantom.



Originally Posted by Lalaith
I don't think the EW is going to tell the wolves about each other, and I don't even think that s/he's going to reveal to them. But what s/he might do, I think, is give them a shortlist of non-evil team people to frame for lynching, in order to stop them killing each other by mistake.
I'm quite certain that he did.

I had already planned to go back over today's events after the day is over and look for this precise behavior. There are a few different ways in which it could manifest itself. But naturally I'm not going to say it now.

Again, why are you so certain of this? What in past history has led you to believe that this is the way the EW will operate? There's no logic or proof behind this theory, it blatantly contradicts what you said earlier about the wolves being impossible to spot, and it can be dangerous if everyone assumes it's true if it's not. We could be led on a wild goose chase trying to figure out a supposed short list of lynchees that doesn't really exist.

Oh, come now Roa. I haven't been unhelpful. All I've done is accurately described the situation we are in, and mixed in a bit of deliberate pessimism. Heh heh- I think you've actually seen me do that before. You didn't like it much then either, did you?

And I'm quite certain you were evil then as well.

But I don't wish to start the lynch mob in your direction either. You're probably not a WW now, but doubtless you will be one later on. I can't imagine the EW could resist recruiting a former EW to his side.

Again, the classic wolf line of "You suspect, but I think you're just a misguided innocent" with some flattery thrown in for good measure.

Post #142- vote count

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to catch one today. Today is one of the only chances we have of actually keeping the WWs from making an extra kill. Once they have four it will be extremely difficult to get them back down to three, so if we can keep them from getting to four tonight that would really help.

But as I pointed out before, our chances of hitting a WW while looking for the EW are probably just as good as hitting a WW while looking for a WW (at least on Day 1), and thus I do not want to lynch anyone today that people agree is not likely to have applied to be the EW.

Here he admits that catch a wolf on Day 1 is best for the village, but he would still rather only lynch possible EW's, since there's likely a wolf among them. The problem with this is that he keeps saying that bold and brilliant players are unlikely picks for wolves, and yet those are the people that apply for being the wizards. (I know, I saw the list from the last game. Phantom was one of the applicants, if I recall correctly.)

Glad to hear it. Really, the things I've been saying all along have a huge amount of truth in them. Perhaps it is uncomfortable to hear, but you cannot pretend that I am showing the situation for anything other than exactly what it is, even if I am doing it in a fatalistic manner. It ought to at least help everyone make sure their priorities are in order.

The bolded portion made me laugh out loud. Really, almost nothing you've said is correct. Try a very small kernel of truth with a whole lot of misdirection piled on top.

Then there's another vote count followed by:

Out of those that have votes thus far, I certainly do not wish to lynch myself.

morm.... nah. Not now.

Roa, Izzy, and Cailin- definitely not now.

So that leaves Sally and Brin.

[quote]Out of those that have votes thus far, I certainly do not wish to lynch myself.

morm.... nah. Not now.

Roa, Izzy, and Cailin- definitely not now.

So that leaves Sally and Brin.

Unfortunately I haven't played much with either one and I haven't had time to go back and reread this thread to look for things, so I really can't say if I suspect them or not. Certainly I'd prefer them to the others at this time.

Here, he rules people out without any explanation, suggest two possible votees for himself, all of which is drawn from the current vote count. He also doesn't truly suspect either of the two people he's thinking of voting for. Then he suggests voting for the no shows (Di and Nilp). Multiple people formed solid suspicion yesterDay, yet he seems unable to do so.

His next post states that there are 17 votes left, and so anyone could get lynched, yet he still continues to take his candidates from the vote count, not even trying to find someone suspicious. For all his talk of voting for the EW candidates, he never lists who those might be, and doesn't even bother to express suspicion in anyone's direction. (Possibly because he is a wolf, and as he's stated, he doesn't want to lynch his fellows by accident. Maybe all this talk of a lynch list from the EW is an attempt to get the EW to send one.)

Ha ha ha!

I'm not a WW, Eonwe. Yes, no doubt the EW would like to have me on the team at some point, but not at the start!

The classic "I'm not a werewolf" line followed by downplaying the idea of the EW picking a cavalier wolf. The light attitude he keeps using towards everyone who suspects him seems terribly forced to me, as though he's diliberately trying to not be jumpy.

I'm too likely to be scried by the GW, dreamed of by the Seer, or lynched early for doing something crazy.

Restating all the reasons others have doubted his guilt, which of course are not very good reasons. As Lhuna said, everyone thinking that makes a very good choice indeed.

But once past the opening couple days- that is when you'd want to convert me.

If I was a WW I would show up mid-day and try not to rock the boat too much on Day 1. Wouldn't you?

Since when has phantom ever tried to "not rock the boat," ever?

Post #174- vote count, and again suggesting that he vote for someone who's already been voted, and picks Nerwen, whom he's stated has been in top five list of possible wizards (which he never had the courtesy to post.) Note that Nerwen was the other person besides myself to seriously suspect him, but didn't go after him as much as I did. It occurs to me that he is the one who really started fan the flames towards the innocent Nerwen.

Post #177- tells how many votes are left

Post #184- Considers McCaber's vote for Nerwen odd, but isn't certain (how unexpected :rollseyes:)

Post #191- He asks Lommy what she thinks of Agan. He never states an opinion himself.

post #197- more vote count. That's four now. Ever hear of the wolf that kept posting a vote count in order to look like he was actually doing but wasn't really? Like when he hasn't actually expressed suspicion, just theories, and avoids stating an actual opinion except to pander?

#216- vote count. That's five!

then he wonders about who hasn't voted besides himself.

#237- vote count. That's six!

And that what he did yesterDay. You have already seen what he's done today, and my responses to him.

Oh yeah, I'm convinced he's a wolf. Not the EW. I think he's angry because he realizes the EW may try to sacrifice him, and that goes against what he thinks is wise. So, I won't be able to get on for the rest of the day except possibly briefly at lunch, and then I won't have enough time to read through everything and be effective. So:

++phantom

I didn't actually mean for this to be an analysis... I guess I just can't help myself.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm sorry, I miscounted. phantom posted eight vote counts, not six. Good night and good luck, and hopefully, I'll be alive to help you on Day 3.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...now that you know he's the seer, you totally know how he feels...
Well, I suspected Aganzir yesterDay before Volo was a known innocent and I still suspect her toDay. I see nothing wrong with using a known innocent's quote to support my feelings about another player. Of course, Volo could easily be wrong with her, but as I do suspect Aganzir I think he may be onto something...

I'm still sizing her motives now, but so far she seems her usual self, or just more open.
Usual self? But Aganzir's usual self could just as easily be evil. After all, she's been evil in almost half of the games she's played... :p

Okay, it looks like Roa just made a one mile long post. I admit I've only skimmed through it so far, but I'll re-read to see if I can get any opinions from it. So far it seems she makes a strong argument against phantom, but I don't think she's said much about anyone else. Mommy dearest, as determined as you are to lynch tp, do you have thoughts on others as well? I'm just curious...

Alright, off to read that giant of a post more thoroughly...

[Lhunardawen]

Page 3

Sally and Gwath's votes both made me fairly uneasy, though for different reasons. Sally's, like someone said, looked a bit too easy. Gwath's I don't like because voting without stating any reasons for the choice is both unhelpful (if having suspicions about someone, one should at least reason them a bit if he really wants that one lynched) and irritating and never fails to make me suspicious.
I agree, especially about Gwath. Suspicious vote, that.

I disagree. Even though the degree of randomness is a bit smaller than usual, there are too many different possibilities for speculating to be of any use - it's still waste of time. And just speculating on things like that instead of talking about people benefits only the evil team.

How can my dear mother Cailin be suspected for being speculative? Given most of us know practically nothing at this point, speculating is about one of the very few things we can do.

Eonwe's first post: Okay, that was really weird. Misplaced. This isn't an RPG, not even an RPG-style game. Why anyone would spend time and effort crafting such a post instead of arguing with someone or repeating obvious points or indulging in far-fetched speculation is beyond me. It almost makes me suspicious of myself for finding it suspicious.

He's either a bored innocent, a clueless innocent, or a wolf wanting to make his presence known but not wanting to give us something to chew on about himself. I don't think the EW would ask him to do that, though - that would be silly.

Leggie is really so sensible, I can almost feel the fur. (Gone are the days when sensibility meant innocence. :D)

Durelin becomes even more dodgy. Says so much yet says absolutely nothing. And how dare you call my phantom 'dear,' you wretched twin of mine! :p

I don't like this that much. Not sure why, but following someone with a suspicion like that... my dear sally does not seem suspicious in any way, she is behaving like she's always, and also she simply voted and that's it. Nothing weird there.
Whoa, protective boyfriend! But the EW wouldn't protect his wolf this openly, so no, I still think you're just a wolf. Maybe trying to protect an innocent to gain innocent points. Oh, right, she's your girlfriend.

Page 3 summary: My 'suspicious' list now includes Mac, Leggie, Dury (it was always like this, sally), (speaking of whom) sally, and Gwath to a lesser degree.

This is incredibly time-consuming and probably won't do it for the next pages - at least not like this. But at this point I have quite enough willingness to vote for Mac (more likely) or Legate (less likely).

[Brinniel]

Read and done. Some thoughts:

First, the EW didn't actually pick his three WWs- he submitted a list of names, and three people off the list were randomly assigned to be WWs.

In this post, phantom tries to make it seem as though the EW's werewolf choice was random, when it isn't. The list of candidates was not that long, and even if there was overlap, it's unlikely that it occured more than once.
I never liked how phantom said the EW didn't pick the wolves because in a way, that's not true. As I said yesterDay:
And yes I know the EW didn't specifically choose the wolves last Night. But they did make a list...therefore each person on that list was chosen for some reason to be considered for a wolf. Anyone who is a wolf is one because of the EW.

Oh, and as far as deciding who we should try and lynch, the EW or WWs, does it really matter much who we gun for?
Goodness...I never noticed that quote before. Thanks for pointing it out, Roa. Flip-flopping always causes me to raise an eyebrow, especially after there's been increasing pressure placed on the flip-flopper.

Okay, this weird thought suddenly popped into my head: Would it be characteristic of the EW to instruct a werewolf to intentionally not vote? Hmm...though that's probably too much of a stretch...

[the phantom]

Decided I'd check the thread one last time before hitting the pillow, and what do I find?

Roa- you are nuts.

Either you're a WW who has been given directions to get me lynched, or you simply are trying to prove something to yourself by taking me on.

Your post is ridiculous. It's full of misinterpretations, terrible assumptions, and out and out lies.

I'm going to tear your post up like a piece of paper. Everyone pay close attention. If you follow her lead after I'm done going over her post, then you are purposefully being wrong or are really easy to manipulate.

Post coming in a few minutes. I'll answer every single question raised.

[Brinniel]

Post coming in a few minutes. I'll answer every single question raised.
Oh good, I look forward to seeing it. :)

I'll be honest- I enjoy observing this whole phantom vs. Roa that's been going on (it's like a duel, but not really). And by the end of the Day once my head's done exploding, perhaps I'll be able to get some real insight. Now wouldn't it be funny if both of them were wizards... :p

[Lhunardawen]

Rikae has joined the ranks of those who want to go after werewolves and not the EW, which makes her slightly suspicious, at least from my point of view.
Oh, Mac, you are sooo getting my vote toDay. Unless something unexpected happens. Which should happen shortly, as I'm voting soon.

*hates her lack of participation*
This is weird. If you check the replies list, she has one of the most posts to this thread. If she still feels she isn't helping much despite that fact, she probably knows she isn't - but why point it out? It feels wolvish to me, like she's trying to get some sympathy for admitting that she can't do something that she doesn't really want to do (i.e. be useful).

To add to suspicious list:
-Eonwe
That's what I'm doing. Or rather, I'm trying to encourage lots of reactions/talking/etc that I can look at and digest after the day is over and then start hunting Wolves.
Is that before or after you've killed them?

Anyway, I've been quite suspicious of his motives the whole time, so:
And he proceeds to vote for him. Lame reasoning, really. If there was any reasoning at all.

-McCaber for being submarine

Be back later, with a vote.

[the phantom]

Aside from the post where he blatantly insists that looking for werewolves is a fruitless activity
You are of course referring to this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557166&postcount=21) post. ("Bah! Why bother...")

The point of that post was, to anyone with any amount of understanding, quite clear. I was pointing out that we don't truly have normal WWs in this village because they don't know each other. Therefore normal means of WW hunting cannot be used.
Shhh... don't pursue that subject any further.

You are right of course that the WWs might have been given certain... erm... directions... I don't want to be too specific here... I'd rather not have people start posting their thoughts on the matter (ie giving examples). It might be better just to watch for it, for mentioning a specific maneuver may cause the WWs not to use it, where as if we'd keep mum they might do it and then we can spot it if you see what I mean.
Here he actively discourages discussions by the villagers while admitting or even elaborating, if you will, on what the EW may have told the wolves. For example, telling a wolf to intentionally mislead the villagers or act in a cobblerish way. Especially if the EW has faith that this particular wolf would be able to bluff his way out of getting lycnhed.
Of course I'm discouraging discussions about the subject! Because if you say "Let's be on the lookout for this specific WW behavior" the WWs obviously AREN'T GOING TO DO IT THEN!

Duh!

It's not always the right time to open your mouth and discuss something. And you ought to know that.
First, the EW didn't actually pick his three WWs- he submitted a list of names, and three people off the list were randomly assigned to be WWs.

In addition, the "who" doesn't matter nearly so much as the "how many". If I was the EW I'd take six mediocre WWs over two brilliant ones any day. In other words the EW will simply pick people that he thinks are not likely to be scried or lynched. If he picks well then the game is his.

Sure, on one hand if he scries me then I can make all kinds of devilish suggestions etc, but if I'm a likely lynch/scry target then it isn't worth it.
In this post, phantom tries to make it seem as though the EW's werewolf choice was random, when it isn't.
No I didn't! You are completely and totally twisting that quote. I specifically said "three people off the list were randomly assigned". So no, I never implied that the choice was random. I said that there was a list. My point was simply that the EW did not get to specifically pick his three WWs.
Next, he states that the EW would probably pick safe wolves rather than brilliant ones
Well, that's kind of obvious isn't it?

"Hee hee, I'm the EW, and I'm going to pick WWs that are going to get lynched! Aren't I smart?"

Come on, Roa. There is absolutely nothing at all fishy about believing that the EW would want WWs likely to survive. You are reeeeeeaally grasping here.
Oh, and as far as deciding who we should try and lynch, the EW or WWs, does it really matter much who we gun for?

In my opinion we're just as likely to lynch a WW gunning for the EW as we are if we were actually trying to lynch a WW. It's not like we have any concrete knowledge to work with. On Day 1 in particular we're just taking a blind shot in the dark. Heck, if we'd purposefully try and lynch the Seer we'd probably have just as good a chance of lynching a WW.
A sudden shift after coming back to find that his previous statement had garnered more suspicion (and a vote).
How is it a shift? I'm still holding to my guns that the EW is more important than anything else. I'm just trying to get the ones who are overly concerned about WWs on board with me, trying to get them to realize that even trying to gun for the EW they stand just as good a chance of hitting a WW since no one has any clue who one is anyway on Day 1.

Once again you are grasping.
Then he posts some statistics that make seem as though it's better for an innocent to get lynched on Day 1 because it raises our chances of finding a wolf on Day 2.
Okay. Now you are just plain off your rocker.

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557271&postcount=91) is the post that she is referring to, everyone. Read it. Please, I'm begging you, someone tell me where, at any point, it says anything about it being a good idea to lynch an innocent. All that it is is statistics for the first two days. Nothing more.

And duh, of course if you lynch an innocent you are going to have a higher chance of hitting a WW the next day. Everyone knows that, and I don't think anyone in this entire village is silly enough to think that that fact somehow makes it better to lynch an innocent. Your point makes absolutely no sense.
Really? Hmm... don't you actually know Agan? If so then I'd be inclined to trust your opinion of her. Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.
But when the same idea is suggested against his favor, he says this:
N...O.... NO. etc....

My comment to Lommy was just so I could say "throwing the wolf to the lambs". If you would've quoted the whole post you would've seen that I draw attention to it on the very next line.
Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.

Ha ha... throwing the wolf to the lambs...
Moving on...
But what does Agan think of Lommy?

And what do Rikae and Mac think about each other?
He avoids expressing opinions, but encourages others to look closely at each other
Oh, please... you are really being thick now. I suppose you can't think of any possible reason why I'd ask Lommy and Agan about each other, or Mac and Rikae about each other.

Oh yeah, that's right- they know each other in real life!
Suppose that one of our extremely busy members is actually not that busy and has been lying through their teeth on the admin thread this whole time. If that is the case then essentially this game is already over, because we simply will not find them out because of the fact that we have to rule someone out!
After all he's said in favor of finding the EW, here he insinuates that finding the EW is fairly hopeless as well.
You are way out of bounds now- taking quotes completely and totally out of context.

The full post can be found here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557305&postcount=121).

As can be clearly seen, I am discussing how to go about finding the EW. I make a point that we must begin somewhere, and that stated RL constraints is the logical starting point. But I add that if the EW has been out and out lying about availability on the Admin thread (which I personally think is unsporting) that they have basically won the game already (through dubious means in my opinion).

How is that saying that finding the EW is hopeless? I'm trying to put forth strategies to look for him!

So what you are saying is a complete and utter lie.
So, we can't find wolves, and we can't find the EW, according to phantom.
Another lie.

In post # 37 (which you even quoted) I quite plainly say that there might be ways of spotting WWs. And later I say this- "I'm trying to encourage lots of reactions/talking/etc that I can look at and digest after the day is over and then start hunting Wolves." So I obviously think we can find WWs. And I stated that I had a list of top Wizard candidates, so obviously I think we can find the EW.

Which means you are lying about me.

And then you said this about my EW safe-list idea-
Again, why are you so certain of this? What in past history has led you to believe that this is the way the EW will operate?
I believe it because it would be a logical thing to do! Give the WWs a couple of safe candidates to ensure that your odds are high of surviving the first day! It makes sense! You may think I'm a little too sure of it, but sorry, that's the way I am. If something looks like a great idea I just assume people will do it. So sue me.
it blatantly contradicts what you said earlier about the wolves being impossible to spot
Once again, a lie. I never said WWs were "impossible to spot".
But I don't wish to start the lynch mob in your direction either. You're probably not a WW now, but doubtless you will be one later on. I can't imagine the EW could resist recruiting a former EW to his side.
Again, the classic wolf line of "You suspect, but I think you're just a misguided innocent" with some flattery thrown in for good measure.
This is not evidence. You are taking a statement that could be said by an innocent or a WW and trying to make it prove something.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to catch one today. Today is one of the only chances we have of actually keeping the WWs from making an extra kill. Once they have four it will be extremely difficult to get them back down to three, so if we can keep them from getting to four tonight that would really help.

But as I pointed out before, our chances of hitting a WW while looking for the EW are probably just as good as hitting a WW while looking for a WW (at least on Day 1), and thus I do not want to lynch anyone today that people agree is not likely to have applied to be the EW.
Here he admits that catch a wolf on Day 1 is best for the village, but he would still rather only lynch possible EW's, since there's likely a wolf among them. The problem with this is that he keeps saying that bold and brilliant players are unlikely picks for wolves, and yet those are the people that apply for being the wizards.
What do you mean, "admits" that it would be best to catch a WW? I never said otherwise. Of course it's best to catch a WW.

Only the "bold and brilliant" apply to be the Wizard? What about quiet and brilliant, or sneaky and brilliant, or wise and careful, or bold and crazy... I don't recall that Nog ever had personality requirements. There is potential overlap between Wizard candidates and WW candidates.
Glad to hear it. Really, the things I've been saying all along have a huge amount of truth in them. Perhaps it is uncomfortable to hear, but you cannot pretend that I am showing the situation for anything other than exactly what it is, even if I am doing it in a fatalistic manner. It ought to at least help everyone make sure their priorities are in order.
The bolded portion made me laugh out loud. Really, almost nothing you've said is correct. Try a very small kernel of truth with a whole lot of misdirection piled on top.
Whatever. You are the one who has been caught out and out lying. My statistics were accurate. My statements about the rules were accurate. My statements about likely outcomes were accurate. You can say they weren't correct till you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make it so.
suggest two possible votees for himself, all of which is drawn from the current vote count
yet he still continues to take his candidates from the vote count
Okay, you are being deliberately dense now.

Of course I was only considering candidates who already had votes. I was IN THE LEAD!!
For all his talk of voting for the EW candidates, he never lists who those might be
and picks Nerwen, whom he's stated has been in top five list of possible wizards (which he never had the courtesy to post.)
Um, I almost don't want to respond to this because it's so silly.

Can anyone think of a reason not to post a list of Wizard candidates?

Oh, that's right, because the GW would be on it too!!

And if you have any faith at all in your list, you'd realize that by posting it you might just be helping the EW to find the GW that much quicker!

Yeesh... I'm surprised you haven't asked me to post a list of who I think the Ranger is. :rolleyes:
and doesn't even bother to express suspicion in anyone's direction
Oh, yes, because yesterday we had so much to go off of for determining guilt and such. *rolls eyes yet again*

Today we do have something to go off of, and if you look back I come out with suspicions don't I, so all this business about me not stating suspicions holds zero water.
The classic "I'm not a werewolf" line followed by downplaying the idea of the EW picking a cavalier wolf. The light attitude he keeps using towards everyone who suspects him seems terribly forced to me, as though he's diliberately trying to not be jumpy.
You just think that because you're trying to paint me as a WW. If someone thinks I'm innocent then my reactions look just fine.
But once past the opening couple days- that is when you'd want to convert me.

If I was a WW I would show up mid-day and try not to rock the boat too much on Day 1. Wouldn't you?
Since when has phantom ever tried to "not rock the boat," ever?
I think we can agree that there are different degrees of "rocking the boat", and different ways in which it can be done for Wolvish purposes.

And as far as me constantly posting a vote count- it was kind of important to me seeing as I was on the chopping block. :rolleyes:

In addition someone actually thanked me for it and so I just continued doing it.

What, you are suspecting me for doing something helpful?

Anyway, to sum everything up, this was one of the worst put together attacks on me I've ever seen, full of gaping holes, misquotes, and completely false conclusions that directly contradict text that is there for everyone to see.

If you are innocent Roa, please put aside your pride and reread this post with an open mind and see the logic within it.

Though it's getting tougher and tougher to believe that you are innocent after that. It was just so incredibly wrong. More wrong than I think an innocent Roa is capable of being.

[Isabellkya]

I am just popping in to say that I'm here.. for a few more minutes as I skim what has occured since Night. It is almost 2am here.. and attempting to digest the information and come up with coherent thoughts.. is a bit out of the question.

Though I do have a few comments.. the almost complete page of utter silliness - is borderline suspicious.

I don't believe anything happened Night 1 - save for the GW and EW picking their first minions/members.

Speculating on whom Volo could've dreamt last night - well we won't ever know the results of that dream in the duration of this game. Unless of course the GW is the one whom gets the results. So it might be informative on whom he may or may not of dreamt - but ultimately how much will that help us?

We are going into toNight with four wolves, even if we manage to bag ourselves one in the Execution.. another one will most likely just popup in it's place. Again leaving us with two kills during the Night.

The number of vote counts/tallies.. nothing changes from one to the next for all of the ones done toDay.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Please, stop posting for a while, so that I can post for up-to-date, okay? I have refreshed when I started to read the last page, but that must be a long time ago... I wonder if the next age won't be up by the time I finish... Whatever.

Like my first post yesterDay, this is noted down (actually, yesterDay I FIRST read it all and THEN replied to the already marked quotes, but whatver) during the course of reading and immediately replied on what I had something to say to. So, here we go:


1) What's with the Lommy-Agan thing? Surely there's something to it?

6) I think Sally was probably innocent yesterday.

1) Not necessarily.

6) That's very well phrased. I would like to point out here that whoever was innocent yesterday, may not be so today, and the same goes for Gifted. Really, at this stage of the game, it is not much about us, but mainly about the GW and the Gifted.

Heh, is it just me or is TP somewhat more cheery today - has he been scried for a Wolf? (the question would be, if not for the other side...)

My grandpappy and my sister in one night?! Someone is obviously out to get my family...


If it's not you, sis...

Legate & yesterday's voting. If that wasn't suspicious, nothing is.

"I want to jump the bandwagon as there's even a chance she'd be lynched (and she suspects me) and now I must explain it to everybody so as not to look I was indeed just jumping in the bandwagon!"


My thoughts when voting were nothing more than what I posted (i.e. that schizophrenia). But whatever...

So stop mentioning ____ and making ____ feel he is at the center of attention.
Hey, that's an intriguing idea. Let's make it seem like he is nothing more than air. (Huh... but what if he is the EW? Then it will be up to the GW to scry him. Okay, GW, scry him and we'll ignore him... but wait this will do exactly what he wants... and being scried, he would become a Gifted, if not... hey... but... NOW... SERIOUSLY! An idea just struck me... what if he is the EW and trying to disguise himself from scrying by being so vocal and annoying with his "scry me, scry me"?!???!)


My question about the voting is this- did the WWs or EW even have to bother worrying about anything?
Good point, because I think they didn't. However the way you are posting this makes me feel like you are too forceful in suggesting something. So while I agree on that, I don't know, the feeling from you... is simply worse than yesterDay.

It seems like someone wants to clip the Volo family tree from the root up! I'm the only gaffer left now...
Speaking of that... don't you think someone may be just "roleplaying"? At least on the first Night, I would think, there wasn't many concrete things for the Wolves, resp. EW to choose from... you know, like, they could technically target whomever they wish.

Di is... whatever. Let me use the too common phrase: "I'll be watching her" - which, in this village of the size of a smaller suburb of New York, means a lot!!!

Nilp, your sig popping at me in the middle of the thread irritates me - if at least it weren't boldened...

Why are they killing off my family?!?!?! First Nogrod, then Nerwen, then Volo and Kitanna! Hide yourselves, Legate and Brinn! Quickly!
Of course, mum, what do you think I am trying to do... *takes a sheep from the herd* I hope the Wolves haven't read Odyssey...

(And Legate darling, by the way, you best explain your little bit of flipflopping yesterday, voting Agan and yet not wanting her killed. Acting like that could get you lynched, and you know I wouldn't want that)
Sally, my dear, you only should look at what I said there. I really did not know what would happen and did not have time to think it over. Thinking of that, I could have taken tp's lazy-relaxing stance and just not vote at all - but that's a habit from the WW games, the obligation to actually vote; so I did. It did not matter in the end anyway, not?

I'm not sure what to make of this killing all in one family thing. One far-fetched theory I can contrive is that the wolves probably come mostly from the Greenie line (not to suspect Greenie herself of anything), and are killing off the Volo line because killing their own will reduce their connections and make it more likely for them to be lynched. But then it was already learned from history that placing all eggs in one basket (gifteds/wolves in one family) is a bad idea, and it would be rather odd for the present EW to do as the past GW did. Hmm.
I don't think so, cf. above what I said about the possibility of "roleplaying". Even now, let's consider this: even if all the wolves were from the green line, sorry, Greenie line, they most probably just post their ideas to the EW and he/she picks one of them, or goes with some idea of her own. And there will be surely a space for someone to kill even in the Greenie family. But mainly, this was Night 1. Or 2, actually. Whatever. And that is, I think, as I said above, that it did not matter much whom they pick - they had very much of a free hand, at least now.

(Phantom in reply to Lhuna about him being a Wizard)
Now that would possibly be even more fun than switching sides! More pressure and all, but still fun no doubt. So much power... mwu ha ha ha!!

Hmm... Let's think here... if I am indeed a Wizard and your finger-pointing leads the other Wizard to discover me... well, that seems almost suicidal on your part, cause you know I'd feel like killing you then.

So that makes me think you don't really believe it, or that you wouldn't mind dying to expose a Wizard. But which one do you think you are exposing, eh? If you think I'm the GW then you're probably evil. If you think I'm the EW then you must be aware that I will kill you, thus I seriously doubt that you are gifted (a gifted would not take that sort of risk).
Ieee. Judging from this, TP could very well actually BE a Wizard. The latter paragraphs make it seem as if he was somewhat... nervous.

Hnuh? But the Good Wizard did Scry hin on Night 1, right? If he didn't get to then dream, what's the point? It's like getting a badge that says I'm A Seer, Ask Me How but not getting to actually be the Seer yet.
I wonder if, according to the rules, Volo got the chance to dream on Night 2? (will someone verify it in the rules? Please please, I am too lazy now :) ) So I think he HAD one dream, only he did not much enjoy it himself (that's to you questioning his usefulness).

You know, I'm really curious about all these people who say, "Phantom can't be a wolf- he's too noisy/loud/obvious/whatever." Since when has NOT been that way, wolf or not? But I have seen him as both, and I've seen him take a real leadership role and really help out the village... when he's a good guy. I've seen him be loud and distracting and post erroneously... when he's a bad guy. Phantom is nothing if not bold, no matter what role he has.

And I'll add this- last Dueling Wizard's game, I looked at phantom with two options: wolf or dead. I erred on the side of caution and picked dead. I don't believe this EW is the same. And phantom's posting thus far had really convinced me that he is not on the villagers' side, whatever his role may be.
Now... err... what to make of that... let's say, I think, that if Roa is evil (EW/wolf), she may as well be going after tp, who, in this case, will be a goodie/ordo.

But that's just one idea. It is "what if", a condition that would have to be fulfilled, i.e. her being a baddie, or him being a goodie - and we could start to think further from that.

I gave continuous reasons for believing phantom to be a baddie. I backed up with posts and reasoning. Sally did not. Her vote appeared almost random. I am not like some people *coughMaccough* who only distrust people who don't agree with them. I don't care if you agree with me or not. If you don't have good reasoning, or your reasoning is clearly faulty, I will suspect you. It's as simple as that. I'm not convinced that Sally truly thought phantom was guilty, or that she wasn't trying to start something in that direction.

Hm, hm... Roa seems logical and genuine here. Very genuine. Arr, but I know she is clever enough to *seem* so if she wishes; what more, if she is a Wolf, she may actually BE genuine (especially if the EW did not tell them who she is or who the other Wolves are; and even if she would do things like give them a list of people to go after, as it has been mentioned before, then Roa would surely find between themselves a person with "faulty reasoning" - and bingo) - following a certain pattern of behavior is a good way for a Wolf to cover himself with, as we all know even from normal games.

the phantom is a relatively easy lynch target. I mean, if I had my way, I would have him lynched now just to be sure of his allegiance. This is one reason I think he might be a wizard, because he posts as if he has nothing to lose by getting himself lynched. (But hmm, the same could be said of some ordinary villagers.)

But then, the EW might have assumed he would not be lynched because
1. the villagers would think as I thought
2. the phantom is just so much fun to be around

and turned him into a wolf. Tada! Instant protection.
I was thinking exactly along the same lines lately. But... well, who knows.

Honestly, you're sort of right. I'm not used to Phantom's behavior, and from anyone else it would scream "vote me vote me" so I did. I didn't expect him to get lynched (and at the moment I'm happy he didn't; if nothing else he's entertaining) but of the people whose posts I had time to look at, he looked the most suspicious at the time. I'll try to be more careful with my votes in the future though.
Hey, but this is very weird. Somewhat troubling. My dear, are you SURE you do not have sinister intentions here? This is really like a wolfy-style excuse. I don't like that.

Volo openly agreed with Lommy (and we know now he was the seer, yeah, whatever),
Yeah, whatever, so why mention it, as we know he couldn't even know anything? Let us remember that he didn't, otherwise we may be mislead, like, I believe it was Di on the page before? Yes, it was her.

People, it's nice to read, but post at least shorter posts, like the ones before 299... that was so nice and smooth and fast to read! :D

I feel kinda stupid for asking this, but what exactly do you mean by "submarine-like"? Maybe you've already explained this, but with six pages of Day 1 I'm bound to miss something...
(...)
I think I missed this post yesterDay, but it's a good quote on how I also feel about Aganzir. Especially about the bantering...what Volo wrote here is how I feel but was unable to put into exact words.
Ad submarine: I thought about it already yesterDay, and I think she means "under the radar"-fly... er, swimming.

But what you say to Volo's post... I don't know why, I don't feel it's genuine. Odd, but today I am growing more attentive of you, sis.

It's already annoying to me. I won't lie, that was part of the reason behind my vote. Most of it, though, was the simple fact that even if Phantom is innocent, he doesn't seem to be helping very much. I wonder (assuming he's a wolf) if the EW didn't tell him to draw as much attention from everyone as he can... it certainly seems to be a possibility, given that most of the recent discussion has revolved around him.
No, that's a thing I don't believe. Besides, cf. what I said above - these posts are at least short to read... : )

No, the two are not mutually exclusive, especially if you are both wolves who don't know each other, or Sally is wolf who doesn't realize you are the EW, or she's the EW and she just wants to kill you to look good (as I did with Nogrod in the previous DW). So, once again, you post faulty logic in an attempt to clear yourself.

And how many times have we seen the "I know you suspect me, but I think your just a mistaken innocent," line from a wolf trying to not appear overly defensive?
Roa really goes after the phantom (oh really? What a discover I made here! I'm sure no one of you noticed that before). I outlined something above... But really... not all too sure what to think of it.

While I cannot be completely certain that this was the case this time, I'm going to find it a bit hard to place suspicion on him simply for first-day indecisiveness (world knows I'm 'guilty' of it as well, take Legate's last WW for an example. I don't even think I voted the first day because I hadn't a clue).
Hey, hey, hey, but YOU were a WOLF back there!!! JUST A MO...!!!
What, are you trying to signalize to me, trying to pick a fellow wolf? Bad guess, miss! I am not one! ARE YOU???

Besides, there's something in your post... all the calculating about which wolves would the EW save for later or whatever it was... and your kind-of backing on Celuien... which look odd to me. (The question is, if it would make sense for a wolf to behave in this backing-way in such a big village where nobody may as well care [at least for now], unless Cel were made a wolf overnight - or you, for that matter [and she were a wolf already from before] - or unless, err, and I forgot what I wanted to say. Great. Later, maybe.)

Also, I don't know why you are so certain that the EW gave her wolves possible lynch candidates. I never did, and my wolves did just fine. The GW did something like that for the entire village, but only after his role had been revealed. In fact, I even encouraged my wolves to lynch as they liked. Someone acts suspiciously? Lynch them! It makes the wolves harder to trace because they aren't having to lie about their suspicions.
Right, that was just what I said about you and your "I will lynch whomever I see unreasonable" thing above.

Oh my, Tp, I don't mind you posting baseless and silly posts, as long as they are short, but your most annoying posts are the frequent ones when they are long. Shut up already and let the rest of us talk :P

Besides, your "statistic" remind me of tgwbs.

So they got a Seer. Bad luck? Or something more? I suppose the evil team were trying to guess who the gifteds were -- considering who a wizard might choose, and also perhaps any subtle hints within their words. I'm not sure what these would be but let's have a look. (Mind you, it's also likely wolves wouldn't want a kill that leads back to them).

Volo

#9 role-playing

#55 madness, madness! and dangerous, dangerous! Funny stuff from Volo, but could it be interpreted as a sign?

#84 Numerous vague suspicions: Green, sally, phantom, Celuien, Cailin.

#85 Mentions his typo ''We Wolves''. Maybe mind is stretching too much here but could that be interpreted in a different way?

#114 Nothing really

#128 Chastises Lalaith somewhat

#133 Questions Legate

#150 Suspects Aganzir, but also agrees with Aganzir in suspecting Legate

#154 Defends phantom

#159 Questions Eonwe

#163, 173 Nothing of note

#194 Speculation about wizard choices (and #201 I suppose)

#209 Votes Aganzir

(Plus 3 other joke posts)
But WHY would Volo give out any signs? He had no dream yet, and unless he were in the danger of being lynched or something, there was no need for him to give hints about his personality. Unless the Gifteds were not informed of each other's identities... but then... well, it could have been, but would he really wish to contact the others? A Seer, I would think, would not do so... although Volo might. : D

Anyway, it's almost 2 and I have to get up early for work. I'll try and check in then but I won't really be able to post much till around lunch time (6 hours before the deadline).
Thank Eru! ; ) : D

NOOOO! THERE IS ANOTHER PAGE ALREADY!!!

AND A LONG ONE, TOO!!! NOOO!!! (It must have been there already when I refreshed! AAARGH!!!)

I AM GOING TO POST. NOW. I HAVE ENOUGH OF YOU.

The thoughts on Page 9 coming up after this. Hopefully.

[the phantom]

Sorry that took up so much space, Legate. The whole thing is probably a bore to read and is simply a distraction and doesn't help us find WWs or the EW one little bit. But I just couldn't allow Roa to get away with posting an attack that contained a dozen or more blatant misinterpretations and flimsy accusations. I've literally never seen anything like it, and I hope I never do again.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I suspected Aganzir yesterDay before Volo was a known innocent and I still suspect her toDay. I see nothing wrong with using a known innocent's quote to support my feelings about another player. Of course, Volo could easily be wrong with her, but as I do suspect Aganzir I think he may be onto something...


Mommy dearest, as determined as you are to lynch tp, do you have thoughts on others as well? I'm just curious...
Explanation... but is it genuine? I said before, sis, I am starting to wonder about your intentions. Don't you know anything about our father's, sister's and grandfather's deaths?

Although what you say to Mom has its value. Mom, don't get too fixed on one person...

Eonwe's first post: Okay, that was really weird. Misplaced. This isn't an RPG, not even an RPG-style game. Why anyone would spend time and effort crafting such a post instead of arguing with someone or repeating obvious points or indulging in far-fetched speculation is beyond me. It almost makes me suspicious of myself for finding it suspicious.

He's either a bored innocent, a clueless innocent, or a wolf wanting to make his presence known but not wanting to give us something to chew on about himself. I don't think the EW would ask him to do that, though - that would be silly.
This is normal. I remember people who used to do that, simply because they came late, saw a thread full of posts, posted a poem and only then did something else. Although, I don't deny that other things about Eönwë, like his voting, which has been questioned before, are odd (in contrary to this).

Goodness...I never noticed that quote before. Thanks for pointing it out, Roa. Flip-flopping always causes me to raise an eyebrow, especially after there's been increasing pressure placed on the flip-flopper.
Again! It seems so nice-ish that it really makes me wonder (...tum, tum, tum... and it makes me wonder... Ooooh yeah yeah...)

Sorry mum, I think I'm gonna make our family even thinner toDay.

Post coming in a few minutes. I'll answer every single question raised.
Nooo! Not again... I thought he's sleeping already... someone hit him overhead... one doesn't have to wonder then that there is one page more...

Hooray! It's my post already! Fantastic! (now will refresh... "loading, please wait")

Sorry that took up so much space, Legate. The whole thing is probably a bore to read and is simply a distraction and doesn't help us find WWs or the EW one little bit. But I just couldn't allow Roa to get away with posting an attack that contained a dozen or more blatant misinterpretations and flimsy accusations. I've literally never seen anything like it, and I hope I never do again.
It's okay. And good, it was only my post there (sorry for its length, but I tried my best, and then, it's just one post... so you have it all together in one place, with this one).

I'm going to re-read the Roa-phantom arguments since the bottom of page 8 separately, really not in the mood for that, and it's internal between the two of them.

Yippiee! Caught up.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And just a minor note on my participation toDay. I will be around for about an hour for now and try to keep up-to-date. Then I should be away and get back about three hours before the DL. I hope it's gonna be readable (i.e. possible to read until the DL). Hmm... I would like to look at Brinn's posts maybe... all right, whatever.

[Lhunardawen]

You know good and well that the GW has been thinking about me more than anyone thus far.
And who would think of the phantom more than anyone?

the phantom.

I so called it.

:p

[Cailín]

Aye, I know that there's probably not a lot to gain from looking at Volo and Kitanna's posts. I had thought that it might be favourable to Aganzir and Mormegil but then I realised the wolves probably won't be a cohesive team.

This Roa/phantom spat seems more than likely two proud ordos going at it. Everyone try not to get too focused on that.

Lhuna makes a fair bit of sense to me. Clever girl, always proud of her... ;)

[Brinniel]

I was pointing out that we don't truly have normal WWs in this village because they don't know each other. Therefore normal means of WW hunting cannot be used.
I disagree. Just because the wolves don't know each other doesn't mean we can find them by normal means. You can't exactly base a suspicion off one player compared to their connections to another player until you have at least one known wolf in a typical game. So how do we catch the first wolf typically? We lynch based on what we deem as suspicious behaviour. And that's how we should play now.

How is it a shift? I'm still holding to my guns that the EW is more important than anything else. I'm just trying to get the ones who are overly concerned about WWs on board with me, trying to get them to realize that even trying to gun for the EW they stand just as good a chance of hitting a WW since no one has any clue who one is anyway on Day 1.
Okay, I accept that explanation.

Oh, please... you are really being thick now. I suppose you can't think of any possible reason why I'd ask Lommy and Agan about each other, or Mac and Rikae about each other.

Oh yeah, that's right- they know each other in real life!
But I don't think they're opinions of one another should matter anymore than anyone else's. Just because they know each other in RL doesn't always mean they'll have better judgements.

If it's not you, sis...
Or you! :eek:

People, it's nice to read, but post at least shorter posts, like the ones before 299... that was so nice and smooth and fast to read!
Funny you say that 'lil bro as your post is rather lengthy itself... :rolleyes:

Thank Eru! ; ) : D

NOOOO! THERE IS ANOTHER PAGE ALREADY!!!

AND A LONG ONE, TOO!!! NOOO!!! (It must have been there already when I refreshed! AAARGH!!!)

I AM GOING TO POST. NOW. I HAVE ENOUGH OF YOU.
*chuckles* You must be just as slow of a poster as me. :D

Again! It seems so nice-ish that it really makes me wonder
So, suddenly being nice equals wolf?

[A Little Green]

Huh. It took me well past an hour to read through toDay's posts alone.

First of all, the phantom irritates me. He seems to play for himself and not for the village (or the wolves, for that matter). I, like many others, don't like the way he draws attention to himself. The thing is, I have no idea what he might be. One possibility is that he applied to be a wizard but didn't get the role, and now is just frustrated and therefore acts in his egoistic manner. One thing above others troubles me in him, and that's the fact that he keeps threatening people. The Lhuna thing I could have passed, but consider this one: If you want to continue suspecting me, Roa, go ahead, but please let this particular issue go. I literally find it insulting that someone would think I would make a decision like that- pass up several nights of free kills for a completely unnecessary stunt. So help me but if you continue on this I might just try and get you lynched despite the fact that I think you're probably innocent.Now what the heck is this about? "If you go on suspecting me, I'll have you lynched even though I think you are innocent!" ?

Other than that, I don't like the casting of random or unreasoned votes yesterDay and not explaining them. I'd still like an explanation from Gwath as I voted him yesterDay because of his suspicious behaviour, a great part of which was his completely unreasoned vote.

Roa puzzles me. I think she's been speaking very much sense in her earlier posts toDay (especially 314 and 319), but I'm slightly worried about her concentrating on one person only.

I'll be back later, I've got to go now - reading through the thread took me much more time than I anticipated. :rolleyes:


EDIT: x-ed with Lhuna, Cailín and Brinn

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

BRINNIEL YESTERDAY (sounds like a newspaper title):

#18
Some starting banter, quite usual. Only, I want to point out - already here starts some pattern which follows Brinn all the game. Things like "ooh my head hurts of all those possibilities what can happen overnight". "Ooh thanks Roa for pointing it out". "Ooh I am so nice and confused". The question is - and I can't answer it now - whether it's innocentish behavior for her or not.

#49
Says quite plainly "so we know there AREN'T connections between the wolves", however finishing the sentence with more vague "as they probably don't know of each other". Then she says we should look for connection between EW and the Wolves (how, may I ask?).

Otherwise, makes sense... this is just to question.

#170
Some problem with Nerwen who kind of accused her... mentions some people, more or less saying thigs I believe logical... mentioning both Volo (that his slip "we wolves" has no value) and Kitanna (saying to think her innocentish). This itself, particularly in this game, does not mean anything...

Only, kind of odd is her excusing of morm's vote for herself, or how it should be said. "He voted me, but I can understand him..." Hmph.

Already mentions Aganzir as one she does not like the most; in the end she will indeed vote for her.

#176
Worries about spreading the voting. Ha, ha, ha...

#195
Continues going through her opinions on different people. Seems undecisive still, somewhat.

#211
Mentions Aganzir as possibility for an EW, but (rightfully, I think) says this is no time to discuss on Wizards (it was short before DL); mentions bandwagons as dangerous, is particularly worried about Nerwen bandwagon appearing out of the blue.

#222
Votes Aganzir.

#232
Wonders about my "to vote or not to vote"... Understandable.

#235
Replies to Dury who asked her why all of sudden vote Aganzir, by saying she wanted to vote her before, which is true.

BRINNIEL TODAY (this sounds like a newspaper name):

#245
Voting list... :rolleyes:

Doesn't like bandwagons... thinks Volo and Kitanna were killed for not being suspicious...

#275
This is where it actually starts to seem a little weird.
I already mentioned my thoughts on Cailin and I do think she's a bit suspicious. And it doesn't help now that Nerwen's been proven innocent.
It doesn't help, but it should not make it worse as well - it you said yesterday that the wolves don't know each other, so they should have as much chance to lynch an innocent as the ordos do, not?

#300
That thing with Volo I mentioned above... Though after I read through all, it does not look THAT bad... I don't know. It may be that Brinn just found a nice formulation on which grounds to suspect Aganzir, what more, to base it on the thoughts of a known Seer... but... then, would a Wolf act like that? Shielding herself with a Seer? Seeriously? Isn't it kinda too... obvious? Hm. Rationally, I am inclined to think this less sinister than I thought at first. Though on the basis of the feelings, there's still something in the post which does not sit well with me.

Besides that, in her posts she mentions votes she does think suspicious or odd, nothing that much strange on that.

#324
Replies to Durelin... who apparently keeps questioning her (this is for the second time! Cf. above the thing about Brinn's vote). This question is concerning her quote about Volo, more or less the thing I said about that. Brinn replies in the way I would expect, and that is normal. Then talks to Roa not to focus solely on phantom...

#326
Thoughts on Roa-phantom debate. Again, the "thanks Roa..." thing I mentioned before. Saying what she doesn't like about tp. And then, asking if the EW could not instruct the Wolves not to vote, which she immediately discards.

#328
Mentions watching the phantom-Roa thing.

All in all, Brinn:

1) Seems indecisive yesterDay, but more confident toDay.
2) Does not look as bad as I thought. The things are just minor and the only ones.
3) Otherwise, she looks reasonable and I can relate to, or at least understand lot of what she has to say.
4) I am letting her down on my suspicious list.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Funny you say that 'lil bro as your post is rather lengthy itself... :rolleyes:
Hey, I already apologized for that, but, like I said, it's one post which sums up all the lengthy posts before me :rolleyes:

So, suddenly being nice equals wolf?
No, but trying to appear too nice could. Which is what I meant by it.

But when I already have you here, I see you again mentioned the thing that the wolves probably don't know each other in your last post - I would like you to answer then my question I outlined while going through your posts: concerning the only one of your posts I quoted, #275. So what did you think back then? If the wolves don't know each other, is there any difference if the one who voted Nerwen was a Wolf or not?

LG... seems to go with the usual patterns of things, sort of "going with the crowd". In fact all she says has been here before... which of course in a village like this is not to wonder... but I would like to see more of her (words which bear great danger, especially in this situation!).

[Aganzir]

Only a short post since I must soon be off.

There's no need for the Seer to drop hints and such, or even indicate that he knows anything about anyone, for his dreams will survive him with the GW.
True, but the GW cannot reveal them to the village while remaining hidden herself. It would make sense that the seer left some hints, at least if he has dreamt of a wolf. I suppose naming people known innocents might be too risky.
But this doesn't really matter right now as Volo didn't get a dream on night 1, which also means that my theory of him finding Legate a baddie is not valid. I couldn't find it in the rules if he got a dream last night or not, but in this case it doesn't really matter as the GW was able to dream herself anyway.

While I cannot be completely certain that this was the case this time, I'm going to find it a bit hard to place suspicion on him simply for first-day indecisiveness.
I agree with you here. I know I'm probably contradicting myself now, but his vote is one of those easy, suspicious things a wolf would love to accuse of *coughBrinncough* (though that doesn't make him innocent, especially as we don't know if the wolves know one another).

If I was out harvesting likely wolves to act in my best interest I'd definately pick Agan because she's a natural, but not immediately because it is likely there would be suspicion. I'd rather save my best wolf for last, when everyone's gotten, scryed, etc. to the point where thinking someone is an actual wolf is old news.
Thanks. :D I am flattered.

How can my dear mother Cailin be suspected for being speculative? Given most of us know practically nothing at this point, speculating is about one of the very few things we can do..
Maybe it's just differences in personal playing styles, but to me speculating means rather "talking something that's not really necessary and wasting time". I am aware that we have to start from somewhere, but even halfway through day 1 there should be other topics to be found.
I suppose I just like to keep things more simple than many others, but finding the wolves & the EW should be more important than endlessly discussing possible tactics.

I think Eönwë isn't really that suspicious. This is his first game (as far as I know Eonwe has played earlier, but Eönwë hasn't), and his vote really looks more like newbie-ish than wolfish. Personally I doubt the EW would pick a newbie wolf, but then again no one usually wants to lynch the newbies right in the beginning, and people are also otherwise more willing to forgive newbies if they do something weird, so I can't say I'm sure. But I would let Eönwë live for a while now.

Ok must go now, I'll be back and elaborate on Brinn & Lommy later.

edit: xed with Greenie and two Legates

[Lhunardawen]

Okay, now my head aches. And you just lynched our healer yesterDay. Thanks a lot, guys. She hasn't even taught me how to heal headaches yet. :D

Maybe getting off the computer will help. But before I leave:

++MACALAURE

About the phantom-Roa row, heaven forbid we're looking at an EW and a wolf going at each other as planned! Because Roa, I deeply appreciate all your input as the former EW, but I wouldn't put it past you to be offering your thoughts to us and doing completely different things. You can pull that off. And you did do some serious misinterpretation of some of the phantom's posts.

But right now I'm quite convinced that you're both innocent, just both unfortunately having strong personalities. Now it's about time the village turns its eyes elsewhere.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hm hm hmm... All right folks, like I said, I am going now... and will be back some three hours before DL. I hope not longer! In any case, see you before the DL.

Good luck to the good side... and whoever is on that side at the moment. Stay sharp!

[Brinniel]

phantom, what are you doing still up? ...Or rather...were (you're last post was sometime ago, so I'm sure you're in bed now). But still you last posted after 3am (and that's my time). Wait a minute...what am I doing still up? It's almost 5am. Curse you WW!! :rolleyes:

Says quite plainly "so we know there AREN'T connections between the wolves", however finishing the sentence with more vague "as they probably don't know of each other". Then she says we should look for connection between EW and the Wolves (how, may I ask?).
I think I already answered this in that same post, but anyway... We look for a connection between wolves and the EW by lynching a wolf, then analysing reasons why an EW would scry that player and who that possibly could be. That's the best way I can think of doing it...other than by suspicious behaviour.

It doesn't help, but it should not make it worse as well - it you said yesterday that the wolves don't know each other, so they should have as much chance to lynch an innocent as the ordos do, not?
You're right...I wasn't thinking about that when I wrote it. My bad. :o

I know I'm probably contradicting myself now, but his vote is one of those easy, suspicious things a wolf would love to accuse of *coughBrinncough*
Huh, why me? And you are talking about Legate, right? :confused:

It's obviously very late so I should get to bed...

Some last quick thoughts:

I still find Aganzir suspicious..

YesterDay I thought Cailin was suspicious, but I honestly haven't looked too much at toDay's posts.

I'm still baffled by the Roa/phantom row...

People I want to take a closer look at tomorrow: Mac, Legate, Durelin, Cailin. Of course that can change seeing as their will be most certainly a large flood of posts by the time I return.

I would like to see the people who vote randomly or bandwagoned with little or no explanation explain themselves...

I think that's all for now. I'll try to get up a little earlier tomorrow, but no guarantee...I just can't wake up to my alarm anymore.

[Macalaure]

3 new pages already?? There's not way I can read all that with due diligence.

The death of Volo is tragic, but at least he can be replaced and his dreams aren't lost. Why the evil team picked Kitanna is beyond me. I was thinking she'd be a good candidate to be added to the evil team last Night.

The Nerwen bandwaggon yesterDay was ridiculous and deserves some special attention - later, along with thoughts on Volo.

Also, on the point of the deaths of Volo and Kitanna- it is more likely that they were killed because the EW believed them likely scries by the GW, and she picked correctly for one of them.

Maybe. However, killing gifteds has only limited effect in this stage of the game. Unless the evil team is incredibly lucky and gets at least two with their three opportunities, a suspected gifted is merely replaced by one they don't know about. The only benefit is that it's uncomfortable to the GW to perpetually change his team, and that the baddies might find clues about other gifteds from the dead one's posts. If I was evil, I would keep suspected gifteds around, because they're easier to kill off after the duel, when they cannot be replaced anymore, than unsuspected ones.

I am almost positive Eonwe has played before.
Eonwe (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/member.php?u=4998) has, Eönwë (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/member.php?u=6500) hasn't.


Now, Lhuna...

This suspicion makes me quite suspicious of him. It's too...stretchy.This suspicion makes me quite suspicious of her. It's too...vague.

Seriously, you say I'm in your red zone etc., but you don't say how what I said led you to put me there. You only give a quote and label it suspicious without any further explanation. Be plainer, please. The only thing I did yesterday that I'm aware of that it could see as suspicious was that I overdid the questioning of Legate. Other than that, your thought process stumps me.

I also don't like your comment on Eönwë. It's everybody's right to dislike RPGy posts, but to suspect somebody for a joking first post goes too far, especially since we're talking about his first game here.

People, it's nice to read, but post at least shorter posts

I'm sorry, but this has to be the quote of the Day. :D :p

I would like to add that I skipped the entire argument between Roa and tp, considering it utterly pointless.

[Lhunardawen]

I'm such a weak-willed wimp. So much for goodbye.

Okay, so why do I find Mac suspicious?

First of all, and this really gets to me, you said you wouldn't be suspicious of anyone who agreed with Roa, with whom you disagreed. And when I re-read yesterDay's posts you did quite the opposite. Really, that's quite unfair, suspecting people just because you disagree with them.

That quoted post involving Leggie stands out because it gives me the strong feeling of you trying to get into someone's good side (by thanking him for agreeing with you and offering apologies for disagreeing with him).

And three, which will be the most nonsensical of all to you, I think you're a wonderful wolf choice. If it flatters you any, which might be a bit of consolation. That might be random, but I kind of trust to thinking like the EW to help me decide who I think are wolvish, even if I wouldn't go so far as to post a list.

I know that with more than a score of people in this game I could pick just anyone for my vote (and I had a suspicion list), but you were the one who stood out most to me for some reason. It's partly gut feel. Can never do without it.

Anyway, I promised I will be getting off the computer, and so I will. Sadly, this is the last you will hear from me toDay. Stupid timezones (I miss saying that).

[Lhunardawen]

Oh, one last thing.

I didn't know when I first mentioned Eönwë that this is his first game.

(Random note: Wow, Eonwe was my husband in the previous DWW game! :D)

That said, I didn't completely suspect him: I considered the possibility of him being a bored or lost ordo. I started to actually suspect him for his reasoning behind voting for the phantom. (But now I think I'll give him a bit of slack, because he chose an intimidating game to test the Werewolf waters. But then again, that would make him a good wolf choice. Goodness, this game is making me crazy.)

Truly, ta-ta for now.

[Macalaure]

First of all, and this really gets to me, you said you wouldn't be suspicious of anyone who agreed with Roa, with whom you disagreed. And when I re-read yesterDay's posts you did quite the opposite. Really, that's quite unfair, suspecting people just because you disagree with them.
Point taken. :|

And three, which will be the most nonsensical of all to you, I think you're a wonderful wolf choice. If it flatters you any, which might be a bit of consolation. That might be random, but I kind of trust to thinking like the EW to help me decide who I think are wolvish, even if I wouldn't go so far as to post a list.

I know that with more than a score of people in this game I could pick just anyone for my vote (and I had a suspicion list), but you were the one who stood out most to me for some reason. It's partly gut feel. Can never do without it.Well, I can't argue against that. You would've made me less suspicious if you had said it was mostly gut feel right away. One thing you have to keep in mind, though, is that most people that would make "good wolves" also make good gifteds. Sure, lynching gifteds is a lot less of a problem in this game, but I'd still like to try to avoid it. It's tempting to concentrate on only "good wolves", but it will make us lose in the end, because Evil will simply triumph with "bad wolves" then.

[Rikae]

I'm a wolf, lynch me, kthxbye.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

Brinn - A "submarine" is somebody who is easy to overlook, altough in morm's case, I meant more somebody who is hard to figure out, even late in the game. It's a term someone (Noggie, I think) coined in a previous game, and I liked it.

I don't have much to say at this point, but I dislike this feud between my son and sister. If there isn't evil behind it somewhere, it could hardly help the baddies more if there were - two of our strongest players are focusing solely on each other, and both of them are behaving unreasonably, as far as I can see.

A couple of other thoughts - Mac always suspects those who disagree with him (shamefully), so I don't find that suspicious in itself. One think I do find suspicious is attempts to build up cases with little behind them, though - and it's even more suspicious now, when the wolves may be trying to lynch those the EW told them to target. I've noticed a few people doing this -posts where I could just hear the EW in the background saying "go after so-and-so today." I'll come back to it later.

Legate feels off, and I get the feeling he is trying to appear that way, somehow. I don't think he would do that innocently.

That's it for now.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I got to irritate at least one person here - my work is done. :p

I've been thinking about the NIGHT's kill, and I came up with this notion: The Dark Side fears killing the Hunter above all.

Think about it: they have four Wolves now (=2 kills/NIGHT), and with the absence of double lynching, we could kill only a maximum of one Wolf per DAY. So, even if we get one lupine pelt today, with a successful EW-scry, they would still have 2 kills.

Therefore, the only thing they fear is a kill beyond the DAY's lynching. That only means the Hunter.

So I've looked at the posts of the NIGHT's victim, checked whom they suspected, decided that they are probably innocent.

Kitanna voted for morm, and suspected . . . well, no-one else.

Volo voted for Agan; suspected Legate, Greenie, Sally (mildly), tp (at first) Celuien, and Cailín; and defended tp and Agan (at first).

So morm, Agan, and Legate are probably innocent. (Or they are controlled by a very bold EW--or perhaps even one of them is! But I'll stick with what I said first.) Greenie, Sally-poo, and tp are less so.

I kept thinking along the same lines and came up with another thing: Since they can maintain 2 kills/NIGHT from this point on (so long as they don't stumble upon a Hunter that knows his job), the EW could tell the Wolves the identity of their fellows (well, perhaps not all). Since there's no double lynching, even a reformed Wolf with knowledge of two (or even three) cannot damage the Dark Side all that much, since the EW can replace the Wolf lost to lynching . . .

(If the EW is confident that all of her minions will survive DAY 1, she could even have them talking from the start!)

I have to vote soon, so I have to find someone to vote for. *sigh*

[Macalaure]

The Nerwen-waggon:

There's some talk about her on page 3, but with only Durelin and Cailin finding her suspicious. On page 4, Lalaith mentions concerns.

On page 5, Cailin starts the waggon, at a time when it was not obvious that it would take off. Her pointing out that it's not a retribution vote raises my eyebrow, though. phantom starts directing people towards voting for Nerwen, on the sole reason that she's a possible wizard. McCaber chucks in his vote. If TP and MC are in cahoots, this would have been too glaringly obvious, so I don't think so. Both, however, look bad on their own. Lalaith adds her vote. Aganzir mentions she doesn't understand the waggon. Durelin adds her vote. Lommy mentions concerns about it, agreeing with Agan. Volo and Brinniel are against it, too. Legate starts his fence-sitting on the matter.

Page 6: Diamond chucks her vote in, and I don't know what to think of it. Legate decides against it. Aganzir votes her to save herself.

phantom indeed looks like the EW here, but would he really play like this if he was a wizard?
I will pay more attention to Di and McCaber. Lalaith, too.
I don't agree with what Cailin and Durelin said about Nerwen, but at least their votes make sense.
The dissuaders, Aganzir, Lommy, and Brinniel look good, but since evildoers like looking good, it doesn't automatically point towards innocence.
I don't know what to do with Legate.


Volo:

Without a seer dream, and with probably only very limited knowledge given from the GW, I doubt Volo was killed because he somehow revealed himself, unless the evil team thought his "we" slip meant something. I think he was involved and therefore inconvenient. He was mostly trusted, but and apparently the EW didn't see him as a future wolf. I wonder how much the EW dictated his wolves and how much he let them make their own decision. The ones Volo was most inconvenient to are Aganzir and Legate. Both had more dangerous opponents yesterday, but if the evil team was looking for a common denominator, Volo could have been it. Legate's suspicion of Volo is half-hearted, which I think is at least slightly suspicious.

I have the nagging feeling I'm interpreting too much into this...


PS: Both Volo and Nerwen have their names in their signatures, which makes searching for their posts very convenient, because I didn't have to scroll down after finding a post. :)

[Macalaure]

I forgot to add Aganzir's reaction to Volo yesterday. It basically comes down to one ":rolleyes:". I also noticed that Aganzir was very laid back about Lommy's accusations until rather late in the Day. It gives me a little bit of the feeling of a baddie trying to not put any unnecessary spotlight onto the points others give against her.

Mac always suspects those who disagree with him (shamefully), so I don't find that suspicious in itself.Eh? I know I have a reputation for auto-trusting those who agree with me, but I don't think I always mistrust those who disagree. :confused:

Therefore, the only thing they fear is a kill beyond the DAY's lynching. That only means the Hunter.I agree about the evil team's fear of the hunter, especially since the GW can give him all information about dreamt of wolves (high hunter success rate!). I just wanted to add that they also fear that a wolf is taken away by the GW's scry.

It's funny that we have similar ideas, but reach completely different conclusions. :D

There was no seer dream yet, and the hunter doesn't necessarily pursue the same people at day and night, so I don't think the risk was very high - this early.

[the phantom]

Just checking in for a couple of minutes...

I'm liking Nilp right now. Keep him alive I say.
Now what the heck is this about? "If you go on suspecting me, I'll have you lynched even though I think you are innocent!" ?
Great, now everyone is misquoting me. :rolleyes:

I don't say I'll lynch her for suspecting me. As a matter of fact I tell her to "go ahead" and continue suspecting me. I said I'd want to lynch her if she didn't let that one particular issue go.

I'm fine with people suspecting me and even voting for me, so long as they do it for good reasons.
And who would think of the phantom more than anyone?

the phantom.

I so called it.
*grin* I love you, Lhuna. ;)
But I don't think they're opinions of one another should matter anymore than anyone else's. Just because they know each other in RL doesn't always mean they'll have better judgements.
Maybe, but the fact is it was helpful to me to ask. If I wouldn't have I never would've known that Agan would actually love to be a Wizard.
So how do we catch the first wolf typically?
Quite often luck.

Sometimes with a Seer dream or Hunter's hunt.

The couple times I've spotted one, it was only because they made lists that I suspected they were trying to hide their fellow WWs on (thus the connections were extremely important to me). As a matter of fact, in Lommy and Nog's WerePenguin game that is how I grew to be suspicious of 2 WWs on the very first day.

Anyway, I've got to run off to work. I'm late!

I'll be back in about four hours.

[mormegil]

This is great! We have the phantom and Roa, going at it like two dogs over the last bone. My gut feeling and based upon the skim reading I've done (I knew it would be this way the first day or two...there is just too much posting for me to detail everything out) is that they are both innocent and attacking each other. I still can't shake the feeling I've got about Brinniel and will likely revote for her today. Although nothing conclusive can be drawn from Volo yesterday it is intersting to note his view on Agan.

[THE Ka]

Hey, hey, hey, but YOU were a WOLF back there!!! JUST A MO...!!!
What, are you trying to signalize to me, trying to pick a fellow wolf? Bad guess, miss! I am not one! ARE YOU???

I think we have games mixed up. I’m referring to when you were a mod of the gladiator-like game (where three of us at a time would compete, then the game would revert back to a normal ‘village’ setup), y’know, “Taliesin of Nothing”. I was a protector, and unfortunately a very obvious one not only to wolves, but others spotted as well.
Now, in the fellowship-setup, yes I was a very bad wizard, but I felt like mother theresa all the same and to everyone else (except maybe Nogrod).

Usual self? But Aganzir's usual self could just as easily be evil. After all, she's been evil in almost half of the games she's played...

True, but I’m looking very closely for something to pop out. She has varying degrees of evilness. I can’t explain it exactly, but I usually can tell whether she’s a gifted at least vs. ordo or wolf. This time I’m not very sure she is gifted necessarily, so it’s either the other two (then again, Agan have you been an ordo before? I don’t think in any WW we’ve played together.)


Thanks for clearing that up Gwath, and no worries. I was a bit curious why you seemed so quiet.

After thinking about it last night, Volo might have been a somewhat random kill mixed with an, ‘ah ha! Possible messages in the post!’ attitude. Also, being the second Night, I surmise that they could take the gamble of testing immediate theories. The only question now is whether that would tell us or them if the GW let the other gifteds know about him or not (and vice versa). (Sorry if I'm behind the times at the moment, I don't have much time right now)


Okay, I’ve never played with phantom or Roa extensively so I have nary a clue to look for. The best I can do is just muck through the posts think more about it and post later on. I should be back before the DL.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I just wanted to add that they also fear that a wolf is taken away by the GW's scry. (Mac)There is also that, but that is something they cannot control. (Perhaps the EW can minimise that danger by picking unscryable targets--but what constitutes an unscryable target?) Enedwaith, they can control the Hunter-killing affair by avoiding the Hunter (not killing anyone who suspects a Werewolf.)

And thanks for summarising the Nerwen-bandwaggon for me. :)

Since I've managed to convince myself that the Wolves do talk to each other (:D), I can use my normal vote-analysis method.

Nerwen-bandwaggon, in order of increasing suspicion. (Times are GMT+8.)

Aganzir (06:59am), who had to vote to save herself--there were still three villagers who didn't vote, two of whom have posted (Lhuna and Kath-chan). If Agan does turn out to be evil, they are probably innocent. (Or perhaps the wolves can't communicate. Haha.)
Cailín (05:56am) who started the whole thing with a valid reason.
Durelin (06:28am), who has expressed suspicion of Nerwen throughout--even before Cailín (q.v. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557277&postcount=97))
Lalaith (06:15am), who did express some suspicion of Nerwen (qq.v. 146 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557332&postcount=146), 182 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557371&postcount=182))
Diamond18 (06:45am), who voted just cos she liked to keep Fantine. Well, in that case (DAY 1s :rolleyes: ), I think I would have, too--but still.
McCaber (06:09am), who voted with a shifty reason, was the second vote in the bandwaggon (often the psychological trigger), and acted like a submarine (no suspicion commitment).

So . . .

++McCaber

G'nite!

[Rikae]

Nilp, you're forgetting that the GW can also get rid of wolves by turning them to ordos. (Or at least, failing to mention it...)
Mac, I'm sorry about that, but it goes with the territory (agree with you = good, disagree = bad). Still, I'll give you this - I usually only see you doing that early in the game. Later on, as I've always said, you're one of the best wolf-hunters out there. As you're better as an innocent than as a wolf, if I were the EW, I'd kill you or try to get you lynched, rather than scry you. Also, the EW should know that I will catch you if you are a wolf, sooner or later! :p

(BTW, whenever people mention the EW, I feel slightly like they're talking about me - my initials used to be E.W., and soon will be again.)

Well, I think I'll make a list - however, not everybody's gonna be on it, because I'll have to make another trip back to Noggie's post to remember everyone's name. So, those I have the strongest views on first:

____ - Whatever he is trying to do, it isn't helping the village. YesterDay I thought he was just trying to stir the pot and get people talking, a day 1 technique I approve of, but toDay he is defensive and overly focused on Roa's attacks. He felt good yesterDay, but feels less good toDay. Sure, an EW who would scry such an obvious choice would be a bold one - but that might be what we have.

Roa - Her attacks on the poster formerly known as The Phantom were indeed a little hasty - not always accurately representing his posts. She may just be letting irritation with tp overcome her judgement, but she's also one of those who gave me the "go after so-and-so toDay" vibe. I actually find both of them somewhat suspicious, and wouldn't reject the possibility they're both evil.

Macalaure - He seems like his innocent self to me. I trust him so far, and am confident I will spot him if he's turned into a wolf. I know, saying that has gotten me in trouble before, but there it is.

Aganzir - She did seem nervous yesterday to me, and I find that hard to figure out, because I have always thought she was one who could keep her cool under pressure. One thing about her is if I were a wizard, I would have had her on my list - not that that means anything.

Nilp - Has been sensible enough so far. I don't like his last post, though - misleading, demoralizing to the village.

Dury - Looks innocent to me. I think I have finally gotten used to her personality, which I always found wolfish in the past - her attitude makes me think she is an ordo now, though.

Brin - Has been bugging me. I'll have to go back and look at her posts, but my general impression has been of a sort of scattered, irrational pattern.

McCobbler- Hopped on a bandwagon yesterday, and he is, of course, the ultimate submarine.

Sally and Gwath have both struck me as being unusually devoted in this game - Sally more serious than usual, and Gwatn more vocal. Not sure what to make of that.

the rest later...

EDIT: X'd with everybody since Mac.

[Cailín]

This satansaloser character. I had initially pegged her as a sort of sacrificial wolf but maybe that's not how the evil team are playing it.

Her posting at the start of Day 2 was just silly: numerous posts, mostly chatty, saying nothing. I thought this was going to be a set-up for a campaign against her, in the mould of the Roa/Nogrod thing from the previous wizard game. Now, while I tend to be on the phantom's side of this point, thinking a wolf-on-wolf attack at this early stage to be no good, Roa and others obviously see value there; I'm not going to argue. The point is, that's what I initially suspected: sally acts all silly and she is attacked for it.

I appear to have been wrong, and I'm sure I'll be wrong a few times before the end of the game, but she's still looking suspicious to me.

She seems way too eager to appease, and to make friends; to be in the spotlight without saying anything. Her vote forthe phantom and her jollying around with him today? There's something fishy going on there.

One other point, which is merely a gut feeling. Rikae feels less intimidating in this game, and I'm not sure what that means. Could be acting more sly than usual.

[Kath]

Roa and phantom sitting in a tree ... :p Well I'm sorry but we've seen these mad arguments before and they almost always turn out to be two innocents going at it hammer and tongs at the expense of the village. It being Roa and phantom I wouldn't put it past them to be partners in crime but the sheer venom in the posts makes me think it unlikely.

Anyway, hello! I hope to be of more use toDay than I was yesterDay. Sadly this means I have 9 pages to catch up on rather than 4 but we'll see how it goes. I'm not entirely sure how I want to do this, I might try starting with my usual 'look at everyone' thing but that could take hours. I think I'll try it. Expect to see me again in a bit.

[Gwathagor]

This Roa/phantom spat seems more than likely two proud ordos going at it. Everyone try not to get too focused on that.

Really? I'm fairly certain that one of them has to be a wolf...I just haven't decided which one.

[Gwathagor]

Other than that, I don't like the casting of random or unreasoned votes yesterDay and not explaining them. I'd still like an explanation from Gwath as I voted him yesterDay because of his suspicious behaviour, a great part of which was his completely unreasoned vote.

Sorry. I voted for sally for the suspicions outlined in my first post toDay, basiucally because her posting style yesterDay seemed markedly subdued from her usual craziness, and almost compromising in places. YesterDay, mind you. She doesn't seem to be doing it toDay.

[Gwathagor]

Man! Ok, I have to vote within the next 40 minutes...:(

[Durelin]

Hmm, just wanted to note this isn't my quote, Ka, unless I posted in my sleep...

Usual self? But Aganzir's usual self could just as easily be evil. After all, she's been evil in almost half of the games she's played...

Anyway...it's interesting to see phantom on the defensive. Roa can attack anyone like crazy regardless of her role. Have no idea about either of them. I agree these things often tend to be villager on villager. However...I can see Roa EW throwing phantom-wolf to the "lambs"... Yes, she could be the EW again, lucky her.

I actually feel good about Kath because she hasn't been her usual self who seems very active and helpful but slips by with very few posts (though long and decisive). Mostly that seems to be because she's been busy. So I'm probably quite foolish to be 'feeling' anything.

I feel good about Rikae, too, for once. Yeah, I know, she feels I'm innocent-looking for once, so I have to like her too. No...I hope I'm better than that.

Rikae feels less intimidating in this game

I rather agree with this. But I don't feel like worrying about it right now.

Isabel's post bothers me. Completely useless while looking useful. Similar to Nilp, she talks about the village's situation as dire. She doesn't really say anything about anyone, but casts a general sort of suspicion over the "sillyness." All very boring and silly. I think she's a much better submarine than McCaber, and he bothers me, too.

Maybe that's why I like Rikae right now - I always did tend to side with Nogrod in his campaigns against the submarines.

Legate seems too frustrated and argumentative to be a baddie. I know he can be a very smooth wolf, and this is not it.

Durelin... who apparently keeps questioning her

I'm enjoying being obnoxious, questioning any logic that bothers me (such as a sort of 'appeal to authority'), regardless of whether or not I actually find it suspicious, much less think it's important at all.

I feel okay about Mac. Have no sense of Gwath. I like Di, don't care to bother with phantom and Roa at the moment. Cailin's creepy. Aganzir, Lommy, and A Little Green all bother me. :rolleyes: :D Nilp is...whatever. I feel pretty good about Lhuna. Brinniel and Ka seem so serious. Whoever I forgot - they're all wolves.

[Gwathagor]

I would like to vote for either tp or Roa. But I can't decide which one is the wolf, so I am going to hold off casting judgement regarding that particular brawl until tomorrow.

Eonwe's vote against tp yesterDay still looks suspicious, but as has been pointed out, he is new. So he gets another day from me as well.

sally has ceased behaving oddly, so I can't justify voting against her. Darn.

So:

++Lalaith

I have to go do the dishes, but here's my explanation: her friendly tone looks to me like a facade which is betrayed by the unhelpful nature of her posts. I'll elaborate later if I have time.....

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Phantom worries me today, moreso than yesterday. I shan't go into why; seems to me more than enough attention has been paid his way today. :p

To others that seem odd to be are Mac and Legate, at the moment. Now, I've never been good at dredging up a whole page-ful of quotes to respond to, but I'll do my best. (Legate will probably end up just me being vain... :rolleyes:)

[Rikae]

Less threatening? Have I lost my touch?
I'll lynch you all!

Hmph.

Anyway, I went and looked at the list and all I can say is, there are too many people in this village flying under the radar already. Most of these people, I can't form any impression of at all, because they are posting too little and/or too blandly - which, to me, suggests the majority of our baddies lurk among them.

A Little Green, Lalaith, Kath, McCaber, THE Ka, Celuien... others that escape me at the moment - oh yes, even Lommy now, who's usually in the spotlight to some extent - are all slipping my mind in this game, and as slippery as my mind may be, that's still bugging me. Gwath's vote for Lalaith looks kind of random, but I can understand it. Still, of that list, I find the quietness of Lommy and Greenie most worrying.

EDIT: Crossed with Shasta, who is also slippery.

[Durelin]

Gwath's 'devotion' seems half-hearted (I think it was Rikae who said he and Sally seemed more devoted to this game than usual?).

A couple of the forgotten...

Lalaith is creepy along with Cailin. There's a nasty pair...

morm is morm.

Oh yeah, sally... Yeah. Might as well be a wolf.

Ohhh, there are two Eonwe's! (Wayyy too lazy to do accent marks.)

Wow, totally forgot Shasta and Celuien. Hmm...

Need to go take a shower (it's noon here...hah).

Edit: Crossed with Shasta and Rikae.

Oh don't worry, Rikae...I'm sure you'll become more and more of a looming threat in the shadows the longer you happen to survive... :p

[Kath]

Day 1, page 1:

Volo - I think it's been decided now that the Seer didn't get a dream on Night 1 which does mean I don't have to search for clues. From his first post I can see little in the way of clues that he's the Seer at all.

Shasta - IC. Finally something of substance even if it is a rule clarification. From what I recall of the last game I think this is right, that EW and wolves communicate through the mod, but that doesn't hamper communication in any way if the EW wants it.

Agan - IC.

Kitanna - IC.

Ka - IC. Post 35, would you mind re-explaining it as I don't really get what you meant. It looks interesting but I can't quite figure it out. Oh! Ignore that, you do explain. Again there I'm taking the view that if you've chosen wolves you think they're going to be good and so you don't really need to control them in that way.

Roa - IC. Takes the complete opposite end of the stick to phantom, saying we must get wolves. Yes true, but pegging the EW would be fantastic. I think they're both arguing for the same thing just from opposing views. Argues that we do need to catch wolves. Claims phantom is deliberately giving out false information which I don't think is the case. Gets that the EW is important but thinks focusing on the wolves is more effective.

phantom - a lot of statistics. Said that we need to find a way to rank the likelihood of those who might be the EW, yet much of his argument with Roa toDay revolved around that fact that this wasn't done. This may be due to those two concentrating on every little mention by the other and maybe we should come back to this. Cailin tried it as I recall, but got pretty much everyone down as evil! We might have to wait til we've had some more information for that to be worthwhile though. To be fair to Roa I don't like how he downplays the serious nature of the wolves. I think it imperative that we aim to find any evil roles, whether they be found through connections (unlikely) or other methods. Has a point about not discussing possible werewolf tactics, in fact doing that generally gets you suspected.

Brinn - a little over the top with 'how much does my head hurt' comments. It's a bit 'oh poor me' and Brinn isn't usually like that. But then, this game is hell on your head.

Durelin - IC.

Sally - IC. Interesting idea that the EW might ask their wolves to play differently but I think it unlikely. The EW set out a list of wolves, so people they thought would be able to pull it off in this game, therefore whichever of those people ended up as wolves the EW shouldn't need their playing style to be different.

Lalaith - IC, though a mention of Roa and phantom's argument.

morm - agrees with phantom that the EW is the key but as he is also trying to figure out who might be wolvish or not (phantom in this case) he seems to take more of a midpoint between Roa and phantom. Thinks Brinn suspicious.

[Kath]

Hmm, and just a note as I've looked at the latest posts, Rikae has a very good point about Lommy. I don't see floodposting, flipflopping and general presence. Definitely something to look at.

[Cailín]

Really? I'm fairly certain that one of them has to be a wolf...I just haven't decided which one.

Are you for real, Gwathagor? What makes it certain that one has to be a wolf? The fact that they are arguing? That you can't decide whose side you are on, yet whoever ends up less persuasive to you is a wolf, is really quite odd reasoning.

[A Little Green]

Okay, I'm here to post a little postie before being off to work a little. The thing is, I have very little to say. I don't have a clue about anything and I'm getting frustrated. Gwath looks better toDay than he did yesterDay. As to who looks bad... no one and everyone.

However...I can see Roa EW throwing phantom-wolf to the "lambs"... Yes, she could be the EW again, lucky her.I agree that it looks like a possible scenario, except that didn't Roa do something very like that in her last game as EW? I don't know whether she'd do the same in this one...

Bah. I'm really much too frustrated at the moment. I guess I need to think a little and come back with substance (hopefully).

What comes to Lommy being quiet, well, she studied for some hours, then went off to see her friends, and is going to a concert in the evening. She'll be back well before the DL, I think..


EDIT: x-ed since Rikae

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Macalaure - Day 1

#52 - Speculation on how wolves might act. Wonders why we don't just go for whoever simply appears evil, rather than WWs or the EW. Suspicious of Roa (because wanting to look for WWs is wolfish, apparently), Shasta for agreeing, and I can't make out whether he suspects Lhuna or not, but she agreed with Roa as well, so... :p Says morm, Ka, and Phantom are unlikely to be the EW because... they're too controversial? For starters, I don't believe morm had posted much of anything, if anything by the time you posted this, so I don't see how he could be classified as controversial unless you're talking about personality, which (I assume) wasn't a major factor in Nogrod's decision. In fact, if you're talking about personality, the same could be said of Ka and Phantom. Really not sure what you mean by that, Mac. Anyway, closes by admitting to be baffled by Cailin.

#64 - Agrees heartily with Volo's bulleted list of possibilities. Mentions how dire the situation will be if we haven't found the EW by the time she can be defeated (Day 4). Points out Greenie's way of drawing attention to Volo's wolf slip, while drawing attention to it himself.

#76 - Why are you posting in increments of 12, Mac? :p Thanks Legate for liking him, but uses this post to point out his own suspicion against Legate. Mentions that he's aware he needs to not suspect people solely for agreeing with Roa. Thinks Legate's way of emphasizing Roa's point about being unable to know anything for sure about the EW is suspicious. Assumes Legate to be discarding Phantom's opinion simply because he does not share it. Puts forth his opinion that the EW could have more risky tasks for her wolves than in a normal game. Also, his likes and dislikes appear here.

#113 - Becomes more suspicious of Legate.

#126 - Continues being more suspicious of Legate. This is mostly because he feels Legate has repeatedly not elaborated on his dismissal of Phantom.

#138 - Increment of 12 again. :p Thinks Brinniel states the obvious too much. Begins to suspect Rikae for siding with Roa and crew. Says his main suspects are Roa, Legate, and Shasta. Seems to be mainly because of the WW vs EW opinion. Discounts his previous list as being of very little help.

#143 - Ecstatic and enthusiastic agreement with Aganzir about Legate. Dismisses any more talk of WWs vs. EW as uninteresting.

#178 - Predicts the wolves will stay away from voting Phantom. Votes Legate.

Macalaure - Day 2

#346 - Comments on the deaths of Volo and Kitanna; Volo was unlucky, but can be replaced, has no idea on Kitanna. Says the Nerwen bandwagon yesterday was ridiculous. Remarks "If I was evil"... which strikes me as odd; no point in giving the EW ideas if they haven't thought them up on their own. Becomes more actively suspicious of Lhuna for not being specific enough in her own suspicion of him. Also for Lhuna's comment on Eonwe (I don't know how to do accents...). Skipped the Roa/Phantom argument.

#349 - Acknowledges Lhuna's comment about suspecting people that don't agree with him with a "rueful grin". Agrees with (or at least doesn't argue against) Lhuna's thought that he would make a good wolf, but intimates that he could also be gifted.

#352 - Dissects the Nerwen bandwagon. Concludes that Phantom could be the EW, but otherwise doesn't really say anything. This particular quote:
The dissuaders, Aganzir, Lommy, and Brinniel look good, but since evildoers like looking good, it doesn't automatically point towards innocence.
seems to be one of those classic wishy-washy wolf maneuvers. Dissects Volo's death. Notes that Volo was most inconvenient to (thus, those with the biggest motive to kill him are) Aganzir and Legate, his main suspicion from yesterday. Thinks Legate's suspicion of Volo yesterday was halfhearted and thus suspicious.

#353 - Adds that Aganzir's reaction to Volo was an eyeroll. Notes that her reactions to Lommy's's accusations against her were pretty lethargic until late in the Day, when she began to accumulate votes. Notes a discrepancy in Nilp's theory.

So far, I'm thinking Mac a 7, if 1 is "completely innocent" and 10 is "completely bad". I wouldn't be averse to voting him today. Now to look at Legate.

[Kath]

Day 1, page 2:

Roa - good point about the EW not wanting to share information.

Lhuna - agrees with Roa about looking for wolves rather than wizards (and why does that remind me of Horcruxes or Hallows? :rolleyes:) but also agrees with phantom that it will be tough.

Durelin - points out that wolves can slip up of their own accord.

Gwath - agrees with phantom that it's the EW that needs to be focused on.

Brinn - good point that looking for connections is possible because the wolves and the EW know each other. Actually this post settles the Roa/phantom argument for me, if only they agreed.

Izzy - basically what Brinn just said.

Cailin - repeats above and does what phantom wanted, tried to work out who might be an EW. Oh, no it was a list of wolves not wizards.

Mac - good point that wolves can be sacrificed because the EW can always make more and that we should simply lynch those who appear evil. Looks at Roa for a comment, some suspicion of Shasta too. Good point about Greenie just pointing out Volo's potential slip and then leaving the outcome to everyone else.

Greenie - suspects phantom some, especially for his attention-grabbing ways.

Volo - ooh very good point about no one using actual names in Night discussions just in case, which ends with him saying it's the EW we need to focus on. Different idea to everyone else, that the GW is better with wolves and we're better with the EW. It's certainly an idea, I'm not familiar enough with the rules to know if this is really right. Someone give me a simple answer here, how do the good guys win? If we lynch the EW what happens? If the GW scries the EW what happens? I admit it, I didn't read the new rules, I'm going on what I recall from the last game.

Rikae - thinks Mac is overreacting a bit and that Roa was right to face phantom though she doesn't think him suspicious. Does think morm a little suspicious though.

morm - voted Brinn on a hunch, no explanation.

Kitanna - repeats a lot of what has gone before conclusion wise, also says not to rely on lists because they're as much use to the EW as the rest of us.

Lommy - sides with Roa about finding the wolves. Agrees with Brinn about connections. Suspects Agan. Has phantom and morm as innocent (though morm less so, there's no definite conclusion there).

Celuien - again mentions that the EW and wolves may not communicate so it might not be possible to find connections.

Ka - makes sense about better to go after wolves than the EW when the EW is going to find it easier to hide.

I've got to post 67 but my head has gone a bit (I need food) and my battery is dying so I'll return later. I'm finding this going through it all quite helpful but I will likely leave it for the rest of the Day and focus on toDay when it comes to voting. Anyway, back soon.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Legate - Day 1

#67 - Slightly in-character entrance. Replies to morm (disagreeing), Roa (agreeing) morm again (disagreeing), Ka (confused, states opinion on whether or not the EW would reveal her identity to the wolves), Roa (agreeing, again), Gwath (disagreeing), Roa again (agreeing), Izzy (agreeing), Greenie (unsure about Phantom - this is the post that Mac bases most of his suspicion of Legate on, Day 1), Mac (disagreeing), Volo (agreeing, but suspicious), Cailin (agreeing), Mac (agreeing). Sums up with liking Mac and Lommy and Aganzir, doesn't like Volo, suspicious of Greenie and Gwath, doesn't know what to think about Phantom. In my opinion, lots of agreeing going on, as well as "who knows" and "why not". Not one to rock the boat, is Legate.

#71 - More in-character. Thinks Agan is clever, tells Sally to vote Phantom while saying he probably will not... This sets my alarms ringing, for some reason.

#77 - Answers Mac's first suspicion regarding Phantom.

#95 - Continues to answer Mac's suspicions regarding Phantom. Believes Nerwen to be innocent. But this quote:
Nerwen's posting, especially her post #82 actually looks sensible, and innocentish. However, I can as well imagine her evilly grinning behind this innocent mask. But that's just the tiny bit of feeling.
is reminiscent of the quote I posted of Mac's earlier; wishy washy. "However", "but". Another odd quote:
Actually, I also - although I see I already meddled in that - don't see a point in such discussions, respectively: don't see a point in their subject. What people say, and that they interact and actually say something, is another thing and it's good. But otherwise, I think that simply everyone should do what he thinks is the best and then something will happen.
I don't understand this at all! It seems vaguely child-like to me, which isn't like Legate at all. Anyway, is still suspicious of Greenie, Volo, and Gwath.

#104 - Mentions Lommy. Suspicious of her for pointing out a difference in Sally's normal posting style.

#119 - Begins to get irritated (one could say, defensive, but he looks irritated to me) with Mac's continual suspicion regarding Phantom.

#131 - Has finally had enough of Mac and drops the subject completely.

#136 - Elaborates on his suspicion of Volo for Volo's benefit.

#171 - ...I really don't know what to make of this post. Legate, help me out?

#181 - finds McCaber's vote so soon after Phantom's suspicion of her to be suspicious.

#199 - Finds Lommy's lack of a personal opinion to be suspicious. Would rather not see Nerwen or Phantom lynched. Thinks Agan a possible EW.

#214 - Doesn't want to vote for anyone voted for thus far. Doesn't like metagame.

#221 - Begins to be wishy-washy in who he wants to vote for, with lots of ellipses. Can't decide between Agan and Nerwen. Says he will vote for Agan, implying he wants her to be lynched, but says he'd be comfortable with Nerwen being lynched.

#224 - Reiterates. Implies, now, that he doesn't want Agan lynched. Very suspicious.

#229 - Finally votes Aganzir, fobbing the decision off on others.

#233 - Replies to Shasta. Implies now that he didn't want to vote for Nerwen or Agan!

#236 - Replies to Brinn. Says he doesn't want to waste his vote at such a time, but effectively does by his own admission earlier (throwing the decision to the people who haven't voted). Really not liking Legate's vote at all.

Legate - Day 2

#332 - Replies to Phantom; thinks he could have been scried for a wolf.

A quote of Aganzir's that I hadn't seen until now, that sums up what I was thinking about Legate's vote perfectly:
Legate & yesterday's voting. If that wasn't suspicious, nothing is.

"I want to jump the bandwagon as there's even a chance she'd be lynched (and she suspects me) and now I must explain it to everybody so as not to look I was indeed just jumping in the bandwagon!" (Legate basically dismisses this.) Becomes very... hyper? jumpy? about Phantom. Says he is more suspicious of Phantom today. Offers the possibility that the wolves are roleplaying their kills. Wow, this is an extremely long post... okay. Thinks Phantom could be the EW. Wonders if Volo had the chance to dream. Thinks it's possible Roa is evil and Phantom gifted. The requisite "But..." line follows. Thinks Roa to be genuine, but another "but..." line rears its ugly head. Agrees with Lhuna. Another "But..." line. Suspicious of Sally's excuse for voting Phantom. Wonders why Durelin states the obvious. Exhorts people to post shorter posts (:rolleyes: ). Answers Brinniel's question about a submarine. Doesn't like Brinniel's reaction to Volo; thinks it ungenuine. Dismisses Shasta's theory completely (there's my vanity kicking in... :rolleyes: ) States the obvious in noting that Roa goes after Phantom. Hyper Legate again, in Ka's direction this time. Thinks Ka's backing of Celuien looks odd. Is sick and tired of Phantom's constant chatter. Notes for Cailin that Volo wouldn't have had a dream and thus would have given no signs. Lots of broken up smileys. Becomes EXTREMELY hyper because there's another page to read. (Whew, finally done. Short posts, eh Legate?)

#334 - *sigh* Agrees with Brinniel that Roa is possibly focusing too much on Phantom, but thinks her suspicious anyway. Thinks Eonwe's style to be normal, but other things about him odd. (More wishy-washyness?) Thinks Brinniel is too nice to be anything other than evil. Complains about Phantom some more.

#335 - Notes that he'll be gone for a bit today.

#340 - Analyzes Brinniel. Much like I'm doing to him now. Some of his suspicion of her is alleviated.

#341 - Asks Brinn to elaborate on the Nerwen voters. Wants to see more of Greenie. (Back off, whippersnapper!)

Legate seems pretty bad to me as well. There are a few things (most notably his vote yesterday) that just don't speak of innocence. In fact, I'd be comfortable voting either him or Mac today.

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal

I still can't shake the feeling I've got about Brinniel and will likely revote for her today.
People keep bringing up Brin, but every time I reread her stuff she moves lower down my list. morm, laddie- if you're feeling inclined to trust me today, I'd let her be. She's one of the few I have a fairly firm opinion on.
YesterDay I thought he was just trying to stir the pot and get people talking, a day 1 technique I approve of
Well good.
but toDay he is defensive and overly focused on Roa's attacks
That's not how I started the day, nor is it how I planned on spending the day. She kind of forced my hand with her million word post featuring bunches of misinterpreted quotes from me. I kind of had to respond to it. Believe me, I think the entire affair is at best a pointless distraction.

I've liked the way Kath has been talking today.

I like Shasta less with every posting he makes.

I'm still flip-floppy on Legate.

[Rikae]

Hey! I'm not Roa. (Sheesh, we aren't even twins... :p)

[the phantom]

Hey! I'm not Roa.
Ha ha ha! Sorry. I guess it's because both of your names start with "R". I shall go back and edit the mistake.

All right, here's where I stand right now on whether or not I would mind lynching people.

I do not want to lynch these people because I find them innocent, or I think I will be able to get a read on them, or because I'd rather watch them for now.

Green
Nilp
Izzy
Eonwe
Kath
Sally
Mac
Rikae
tp
Di
Cailin
Lhuna
Brin
Legate
Lal
morm
Cel

I would be willing to accept the lynching of the following, either because I suspect them, because I don't have an opinion on them, or because I think their death might tell us something.

Shasta
Lommy
Dur
Roa
Agan
Ka
Gwath
McCaber

[Rikae]

What is it you find suspicious about Shasta? Just curious...

[Rikae]

To add something to the above, I didn't like his analysis of Mac much, but then, I always think I understand my husband better than anybody else does - I did think he had some good points about Legate, though that analysis also seemed a bit... skewed? Not sure.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Legate
Nerwen's posting, especially her post #82 actually looks sensible, and innocentish. However, I can as well imagine her evilly grinning behind this innocent mask. But that's just the tiny bit of feeling.

is reminiscent of the quote I posted of Mac's earlier; wishy washy. "However", "but".
This - well, I think we all get hunches, but Legate is wording it rather cautiously (only a tiny bit of feeling), and cautious people set off my alarm bells.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

What is it you find suspicious about Shasta? Just curious...

I'm kinda curious too, Phantom, considering you haven't had a word to say about me till now. :p

[the phantom]

To add something to the above, I didn't like his analysis of Mac much, but then, I always think I understand my husband better than anybody else does - I did think he had some good points about Legate, though that analysis also seemed a bit... skewed?
That's certainly part of it. I don't agree with the way he has analyzed either one of them.

Plus his statement that I'm worrying him more today than I did yesterday. I find that puzzling. I'm not being nearly so insane today- it is no longer the time for it. What does he find worrying? The fact that I responded to an attack? Or the fact that I am now stating opinions on various villagers?

It seems like an easy set up to me- he is trying to, without giving any actual reasons, set himself up to vote my direction if the wind begins to blow towards me. At least that's the gut feeling that I took away from it.

I know there was something else though. I went back and searched for it but couldn't find it. I could've sworn something he did yesterday pinged my radar, because I remember writing his name down as I did a read-through.

Ugh. I'm tired... I'll be back in a bit.

[the phantom]

considering you haven't had a word to say about me till now
Actually, I did. From my first post of the day-
3) I'm a bit suspicious of Shasta.
That was before you had even posted anything today, so I know I saw something yesterday that I didn't like.

I'll look for it after lunch.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Plus his statement that I'm worrying him more today than I did yesterday. I find that puzzling. I'm not being nearly so insane today-

That's part of the point, yes. I'm beginning to wonder if you haven't been "forcibly constrained".

And what's wrong with my analyses? You know, this happens every time; I exert myself and immediately get suspected for it. It's depressing. :(

[the phantom]

That's part of the point, yes. I'm beginning to wonder if you haven't been "forcibly constrained".
As if anyone could do that to the phantom. ;)
And what's wrong with my analyses?
Mainly that your feelings aren't always matching up with mine.

I know that's an unfair gripe, but that's what helps keep you on my lynch list- I don't mind getting rid of someone so much if they don't seem to be headed the same way as me.

Not that I'm trying to send the mob your way right now. I'd much rather see a continuation of the Lommy versus Agan battle. Or it would also be fine to see Roa lynched since the EW might have given her "get TP lynched so we don't have to waste a kill/scry on him" instructions. So don't get too nervous. I am willing to lynch you. That does not mean you are my target of choice.

And at any rate, at this point in the game very slight suspicion is sort of the best we have to go on. After all, we haven't caught a baddie yet. Once we do I believe we can start coming to some harder conclusions.

I can't even think straight now, anyway. The fact that I didn't fall asleep until 5 AM is really starting to catch up to me. Two hours of sleep has a way of making a guy feel very dull-witted. Perhaps I should take a nap.

[Macalaure]

Hey! An analysis of me.


Why are you posting in increments of 12, Mac?
It's a code. :p

Says his main suspects are Roa, Legate, and Shasta. Seems to be mainly because of the WW vs EW opinion.
It was not entirely because of a difference of opinion. Note that my suspicion of Lhuna and Rikae was much lower and my suspicion of you ebbed away later. It was the way the opinion was stated. There was something of a manipulative feel to it. Difficult to explain.

Remarks "If I was evil"... which strikes me as odd; no point in giving the EW ideas if they haven't thought them up on their own.
Come on, that's not true. If you want to catch a criminal, you need to think like a criminal. ;)

Notes that her reactions to Lommy's's accusations against her were pretty lethargic until late in the Day, when she began to accumulate votes.
Actually, she started to do it earlier, iirc, but it seemed like she ignored them as long as she could.


I wonder why people become suspicious of Shasta because of his analyses. While I don't share one of his conclusions (guess which ;)), I think he looks very innocentish today.


Something else... Kath, no offense intended, but are you sure your posts today are very helpful? It's a lot to read, but there's actually rather little new to learn from them...

[Kath]

Right! I'm fed, watered and battery-full, and all earlier than I expected so I shall at least finish the page I was on before.

Day 1, page 2, part two:

Legate - little confused over his comment on morm, as he says 'no don't look at things through the EW's eyes' but then says 'but actually, why not?'. Agrees with Roa's side, that we should focus on the wolves but more generally just go for anyone who looks suspicious which, of course, agrees with what was said earlier. Some suspicion of Volo for not being quite himself. Perhaps, if Legate is not a wolf/EW himself, this is what they picked up on. Also wariness of Greenie and Gwath though no reasoning there. Disagrees with sally about phantom.

Agan - thinks phantom's words look a bit planned. Thinks Brinn suspicious for being 'certain' about the wolves not communicating. I'm not sure about that, Brinn had been summing things up in that post I believe so I don't think she was certain about it, it was just the consensus most people had reached. Puts Ka, phantom, sally, Gwath and Brinn on the suspicion list. There is reasoning for most of it but it does look a little forced in places. It was Day 1 so it's sort of understandable but it's still a little odd. Thinks Durelin is trying too hard to build a case against her.

sally - votes phantom because he bothers her the most. I'd say this is like someone playing with a suicidal Nilp for the first time, the sheer unfamiliarity breeds suspicion. That's not to say though that she isn't right, again thinking about Nilp it's occurred before that a newcomer has seen right through him where oldtimers haven't.

Roa - makes a good point. She has done this before, her experience is important for us to think about. Again I think she's taken the phantom's post a little wrong, with the 'there are no wolves' thing. The way he puts it is useless but I don't think he's saying that there's no way to find them, simply that he doesn't think it as important to find them.

Gwath - votes sally, no reasoning.

Durelin - thinks Cailin's list useless. Well, yes, it was really, but it probably gave her a way to focus the way she thinks about the village. That's why I do these after all. Thinks Ka isn't bein interesting enough, nor sally, and is bothered by Agan. Mentions phantom possibly being the EW. Sadly, the problem is that anyone could be the EW. Either phantom who is playing it so loudly or Nilp who barely speaks. You could make a case for being the EW against practically anyone. This is why I'd prefer to look for the wolves, yes you could do the same with them but you generally have something more to go on. Thinks Agan is being too defensive, I wouldn't have said so, she replied to an accusation quite calmly.

Mac - has Shasta, Cailin and Roa as suspects, little real reasoning.


Hmm, there's quite a fight brewing between Durelin and Agan there too, it's just overshadowed some by Roa and phantom. I'm having a think about Mac as well, I think something earlier struck me as a little off, I might check that out.

[Isabellkya]

I am here, and about halfway through my re-read.

I do have something I would like to comment on now. It may be discussed further along, but I don't remember it being so. Either way, I'm commenting! :P

#241 - Diamond asks phantom why he didn't vote yesterDay.

#244 - phantom in reply to the question, asks a question. A valid point, however he doesn't answer Diamond.

#248 - Bingo. Since I was at risk, I was holding my vote till the very end.

And then the end arrived, and I was wondering if the late Agan bandwagon would charge all the way to the front to tie with Nerwen and I, and so I was deciding who I should vote for out of those two. Like I said I thought that there had to be something going on with with Lommy and Agan and was thinking that I might want to vote that way just to see if anything turned up. Ner went ahead and I felt slightly safer but still felt like I might have to choose between the two, and next thing you know Nog posted.

I actually had my vote typed out and everything (it was for Nerwen but I had Agan's name ready to paste just in case) and was ready to post it in the final seconds, but when I refreshed my other window I saw that Nog had already posted so I figured I wouldn't bother.



phantom elaborates a little more, though it seems he only did so because in #243 Ka had given a possible speculation as to why he (phantom) had not voted.

I don't buy phantom's reasoning as to why he didn't vote. The reason itself is plausible - though coupled with the happenings before deadline yesterDay and his avoiding Diamond's question until a few posts later - is quite suspicious.

From yesterDay -

#216 @ 350pm PDT - phantom does a vote tally.
#219 @ 352pm PDT - He asks who hasn't voted yet.
#237 @ 400pm PDT - Another vote tally. (Last post before Nog's)


The last 13 votes had not been for phantom, I can understand his concern in being lynched - because no one ever really wants to be.. save for maybe a Cobbler. Yet it just doesn't quite fit. The last minutes of yesterDay seemed to be more of a decision between Agan and Nerwen. With Nerwen clearly leading for the last ten minutes or so of the Day.


X'd with Phantom, Mac, and Kath.

[Kath]

Ah, just saw this:

Something else... Kath, no offense intended, but are you sure your posts today are very helpful? It's a lot to read, but there's actually rather little new to learn from them...
Now who said I was trying to be helpful to others? These are mostly for my benefit, if anyone else gets something from them then good but it's not necessary. Also, maybe there's not a lot new to be learned, indeed there won't be much as it is often a summary with me commenting where I find something to comment on, but then I suppose it's giving you some information about me. I am sorry that it's a lot to read, I find that myself.

[satansaloser2005]

Holy buckets! So many posts! Stop it, geez, you're going to give me a coronary!

*skims as quickly as possible*


Okay, a few people are bothering me, but I'm not ready to vote yet as I've just given them an essentially cursory inspection....and stuff....

Phantom's beating the tar out of Madam Roa and vice versa, which I think is a little over the top, but since it's Phantom and I'm actually (sort of hehe) getting used to him now I'm all right with it for now.

Cabbie is quiet. Too quiet. Or have I missed his posts?

Let's see....who else? Grandpa Shasta, don't feel bad. I get suspected for being helpful too. It makes life fun. :)

Ummmm....snap I've got like five minutes. I know how Leggie feels....too much to sift through at the moment.

At the moment, and this is subject to and in fact probably will change, I'm leaning toward voting Cabbie due to his....well, due to nothing; that's the problem. He's suspicious based on the fact that he's not suspicious. Does that make sense? Didn't think so.

Bye for now! I'll read everything hopefully, but my vote post will be quick and painless, if I can squeeze one in at all. *mutters*



EDIT: crud. x'd with Grandma Izzy and my sis

[the phantom]

Izzy- I don't think you quite understand the last portion of my no-vote explanation. Perhaps I didn't explain well.
I actually had my vote typed out and everything (it was for Nerwen but I had Agan's name ready to paste just in case) and was ready to post it in the final seconds, but when I refreshed my other window I saw that Nog had already posted so I figured I wouldn't bother.
I was actually going to vote at the very end. I was going to post it. It was going to be in time.

But Nog went ahead and ended the day. If you'll look at the time on his post, it is 11:00 PM GMT. In other words, he cut the thread off before the actual deadline for voting (11:01 PM GMT).
All those votes with the marking 11.00 PM GMT will be counted. All those going over it will not be counted.

[Aganzir]

Ok, so I'm back, much later than I expected to be but anyway. And eeks, both my poor mummy and darling boyfriend already have a vote!

You know good and well that the GW has been thinking about me more than anyone thus far.And who would think of the phantom more than anyone?

the phantom.

I so called it.


Ah, but about whom would the GW think more than anyone? The EW. ;)

The Lhuna thing I could have passed, but consider this one: Now what the heck is this about? "If you go on suspecting me, I'll have you lynched even though I think you are innocent!" ?
I think Greenie is being overreactive here. She takes a minor quote, misinterprets it and then makes a big fuss about it. I've seen it before that someone votes for a person just out of personal annoyance, and besides you're doing it yourself now (well not voting but) - phantom irritates you and therefore you behave like you were suspecting him, which may eventually lead to voting.
The way Greenie starts suspecting tp looks a bit forced to me, yet is less suspicious than the fact that she's still seemingly indecisive about people. It reminds me of a wolf who doesn't know her fellows.

Huh, why me? And you are talking about Legate, right?
Sorry if I was unclear (and I indeed was), I was in a hurry.
And my dear brother Legate...voting for Aganzir but not wanting her lynched is very odd. And his explanation for it confused me even more. (Hmm...maybe it's because old love never dies ) But as suspicious as it is...I wonder if it's too suspicious. I mean, would a wolf actually act in such a way? Only if the EW told him to...
I think Legate's wavering with his vote was suspicious, but I was already suspicious of him. You on the other hand found his vote strange yesterday, yet today you raised the issue just a bit and immediately downplayed the possibility that his vote was wolfish.
ALSO... Legate suspected Brinn, analysed her and found her more innocent-looking. I find this interesting, and I'll certainly go through their posts when I have time.

So I've looked at the posts of the NIGHT's victim, checked whom they suspected, decided that they are probably innocent.
Well I don't know. In the first game ever I played I learned the golden rule of being a hunter (thanks Nogrod :p): "the hunter cannot be completely honest of his suspicions". So if the hunter does his job well, the wolves cannot be sure who his real main suspects are when they attack him.

I also noticed that Aganzir was very laid back about Lommy's accusations until rather late in the Day. It gives me a little bit of the feeling of a baddie trying to not put any unnecessary spotlight onto the points others give against her.
Frankly, I got annoyed with her later in the day. It's ok if someone just says I don't sit right with them, but I disliked the way she started to use her RL knowledge of me as a basis for accusations (see, now everyone for instance thinks that I'd love to be the EW which is something she invented herself, and besides she was wrong). And thus far she has always said she can't really read me (which, I think, is not something every player here knows), and now all of a sudden she claims to be the one who can figure me out the best (yes, she said she usually can't, but the way she behaves suggests completely the opposite).
I think if she's innocent she should just know better.

I was a protector, and unfortunately a very obvious one not only to wolves, but others spotted as well.
Maybe because you kept dropping ranger hints all the time since you wanted to have fun? ;) And we never figured out whether you were the cobbler or the ranger, and I actually thought the former.
Ok, that for nostalgia.

then again, Agan have you been an ordo before? I don’t think in any WW we’ve played together.
Yes. But not before in any game I've played with you.

Since two of my main suspects have already been analysed while I was gone, I'll take a look at Lommy soon.

Ha, and I just noticed a quote by Gwath:
sally has ceased behaving oddly, so I can't justify voting against her. Darn.
This reminds me of the wolfish Gwath of some game who asked a player why he voted for Menel and told to give a reason so that he could vote for him, too.
Gwath, do you honestly think sallywolf couldn't change her playing style back to normal once that she's been spotted? I'll interpret your words again: "I don't really care whom I vote, sally's not my fellow/she's on the innocent list the EW gave/whatever, but now I don't have a reason to vote for her anymore as she's back to normal!"

Speaking of that... don't you think someone may be just "roleplaying"?
I didn't even notice this before reading Shasta's analysis. Quite honestly, I think it has about the same amount of sense as (wolfish) me suggesting the wolves killed Valier because of her hunches instead of suspecting her to be the seer.

Of course, mum, what do you think I am trying to do... *takes a sheep from the herd* I hope the Wolves haven't read Odyssey...
:-DDD
I must laugh at this a bit since you remind me so much of a recent RPG character of mine.

Legate seems pretty bad to me as well. There are a few things (most notably his vote yesterday) that just don't speak of innocence. In fact, I'd be comfortable voting either him or Mac today.
I'd be interested to know what those a few things are.

edit: xed since phantom's #378

[mormegil]

++Brinniel

Same reason as yesterday, she's not sitting right with me. I promise to get fairly caught up once life calms down a bit. I've been hit with far too many things lately.:rolleyes:

[Isabellkya]

That is all well and good, but why do you need to push the rules?
The deadline is there for a reason, usually when people say any votes with the deadline timestamp on them will be counted, is for those last second/minute votes to slip in.
I don't believe it is intended for someone to plan ahead, to make their vote at the exact deadline time.

It still does not explain why you chose to wait to vote, and thus did not vote at all. You had time to vote - nearly 23 hours; yes you were in some amount of danger of being executed, however in the last ten minutes - Nerwen and Aganzir were in more danger than you.

[Aganzir]

I'd much rather see a continuation of the Lommy versus Agan battle.
I have a feeling I'm being... an object. :eek:

[Celuien]

5 more pages? :confused: I don't know how I'm going to catch up on this. I guess I'm just glad I made it back in time to read some of it. *sigh*

That's exactly what I'm going to do. Be back in a moment.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'd be interested to know what those a few things are.

1. He seemed very agreeable, more of a "go-with-the-flow" type, early on (post #67 - I didn't write about every single subject in that post because it would have taken ages, it was gigantic!)

2. Post #71 - Early on, Phantom was gaining votes more than anyone else. Legate seemed to be encouraging Sally to vote for Phantom, while being able himself to stay away.

3. #95 - his first bit of wishy-washyness regarding Nerwen.

4. His flipfloppy vote. First, can't decide between Agan or Nerwen (#221). Votes Agan, but hopes she's not lynched (#229). Replies to Shasta, saying he didn't want to vote Nerwen or Agan (#233). Gives a contradictory reason for his vote (#236).

5. #332 - Comes across as flipfloppy regarding Phantom; first thinks he could be the EW, then thinks he's gifted, leaving himself open to change that opinion.

[Nogrod]

But Nog went ahead and ended the day. If you'll look at the time on his post, it is 11:00 PM GMT. In other words, he cut the thread off before the actual deadline for voting (11:01 PM GMT). All those votes with the marking 11.00 PM GMT will be counted. All those going over it will not be counted.If you had voted at 11.00 and it would have read in your post your vote would have been counted in even if I had posted before at the same minute.

I'll promise to send the deadline post at 11.01 toDay so it looks neater if someone posts on 11.00.

But the rule is clear: All those votes with the marking 11.00 PM GMT will be counted. All those posted later will not be counted.


That also means that we continue going with the 'Downs time even if it seems now to be more like 4-5 minutess off.

[Rikae]

I think Legate's wavering with his vote was suspicious, but I was already suspicious of him. You on the other hand found his vote strange yesterday, yet today you raised the issue just a bit and immediately downplayed the possibility that his vote was wolfish.
ALSO... Legate suspected Brinn, analysed her and found her more innocent-looking. I find this interesting, and I'll certainly go through their posts when I have time.

Good call. I don't think we should rule out the possibility that at least two wolves know each other, after all, and they might even have stumbled into being less cautions with their connections because everyone assumed they didn't.

I am leaning most toward voting for tp or Legate at the moment.

[Brinniel]

The way Greenie starts suspecting tp looks a bit forced to me, yet is less suspicious than the fact that she's still seemingly indecisive about people. It reminds me of a wolf who doesn't know her fellows.
Does everyone make you feel this way? It's just I've noticed you've been saying that line a lot during this game...

I think Legate's wavering with his vote was suspicious, but I was already suspicious of him. You on the other hand found his vote strange yesterday, yet today you raised the issue just a bit and immediately downplayed the possibility that his vote was wolfish.
Okay, when I was reading what you wrote last night I thought you were meaning the exact opposite.
Anyways, I don't think I completely downplaying the possibility of a wolfish vote there. When I wrote "Only if the EW told him to..." I was still considering it was possible. Honestly, I'm just flat out unsure whether Legate's vote was actually wolfish or an innocent's mistake.

Coming soon: A post on my thoughts of all the players. It may take awhile, but hopefully it'll help me come up with a voting candidate.

[the phantom]

If you look at other WW villages I've been in, if possible I always hold my vote till the very end. One time in particular I actually foiled a WW by sitting on my vote and forcing him to show his cards. That's simply my style. It makes me feel more... in control.

There were three votes still out there, thus Agan had a very real chance of tying with Nerwen, and if that had happened I was considering voting for her. But of course if I jumped forward suddenly to tie Ner I was going to cast a vote for her.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, hello everybody, I'm finally here. (I was just planning to go to see friends after school but we got an ex tempore idea to go to see Blackmore's Night live, so I only got home now.) Now I will dedicate the rest of the evening (night?) to this game, starting with a massive reading process... :eek: :D

[Diamond18]

DEAR GOD.

I started reading this like an hour and a half ago. I was fresh and ready to form opinions, now I'm tired and I want to curl up in a corner and whimper. I knew I should have gotten up earlier today to read posts, but there were epic, violent thunderstorms for several hours this morning which kept me up.

At least I have three hours to give it some thought. But based on my initial readthrough... wow, Roa and phantom were in rare form last night. I've seen people saying how we should ignore them. Frankly this whole argument (which is about as epic and violent as the thunderstorms) makes me just die to know who and what they both are. On the other hand, it's the most entertaining stuff going on around here (I mean, I'd rather read a good smackdown than a by-the-numbers re-cap any day) and I'll be sorry when it's over.

So does my love of drama, or my curiosity to find out their respective identities win out?

Hmmmm.

Everyone else seems so vanilla in comparison that I'm having trouble forming opinions or focus on any of them. At least not after slogging through posts for a solid hour and a half.

I'm going to go make popcorn.

[Roa_Aoife]

Okay, just so everyone knows, I haven't read through everything, because I don't have time. (I've got 15 minutes from now, which is 12:56 PM PT).

First, phantom, you're statistics aren't even logical, because you leave out : a. the hunter, b. the ranger, and c. the EW herself, who might change a gifted into an ordo instead of an ordo into a gifted, thus keeping the wolf population down.

Second, those who think losing the seer isn't such a bad thing, consider what would happen if it was Day 4 and the EW knew the GW's identity. She could then challenge and take the GW out before she had a chance to replace the seer, and the village would be in trouble. Who was saying that again?

Third, for everyone who is concerned that I'm focusing too much on phantom, well, duh. I am thoroughly convinced he's evil. Why should I look at people I am uncertain of when I have one that I am certain of right in front of me? I mean, even now, he's gone from saying, "I think you're innocent and don't want to lynch you," to "I think Roa's a wolf trying to get me. Let's lynch her."

Fourth, I have a feeling that this is the last time I will be able to do this, because I may well be killed or wolf-ified and then lynched to discredit me, (as I did with Valier), so here:

The EW:

In the last game, I took care to avoid people that might be scried by the GW, not so much because I was worried about losing a wolf (until morm accidentally found me out) but because if we scried the same people on the same Night, my identity would be revealed. That is not the case this game. If the wolf doesn't know anything, then losing him to the GW may not be so bad. However, if the GW and the EW scry the same person in a Night, that person dies. This is a third kill for the evil team! The GW is the one who will be avoiding scrying possible EW picks in order to keep innocents from dying. (Which, by the way, is why I believe the phantom will not be picked by the GW.)

So lose the mentality that the EW won't pick likely GW scries for scrying. It will only mislead you into to looking away from those that could be wolves. Until we know who the EW is, we have no way of knowing who they might have picked. YOU CANNOT RULE ANYONE OUT FOR THE REASON THAT THEY ARE UNLIKELY PICKS. The EW may have very well counted on that thinking. Until we know who the EW is, you must look at everyone with equal possibility.

Finally, even if you don't think anything I said about phantom has merit, please, please, go back and look at what I said about the EW and her possible behavior.

I have to go. Honestly, it might be better if you lynch me toDay. ToMorrow, I may be a wolf, and then you won't know what to trust, and what I said that was helpful or a lie. I'm not so worried about being wolf-ified to save phantom, but more that it will cause people to mistrust the advice I've given regarding the EW.

[the phantom]

To Nog- I didn't doubt that you would have counted my vote had it been posted on time. I just didn't want to, as you said, make the thread look less neat.
I have a feeling I'm being... an object.
Guys, the Agan is feeling objectified.
I am leaning most toward voting for tp or Legate at the moment.
Vote Legate then. I believe I've answered questions about me quite beautifully, thank you.

[Cailín]

Everyone else seems so vanilla in comparison that I'm having trouble forming opinions or focus on any of them. At least not after slogging through posts for a solid hour and a half.

Stop, stop, the popularity contest won't be fun if there's such a clear favourite. :p

Sometimes that's what Werewolf is; so don't complain to me when you're hanging there. ;)

[Aganzir]

Does everyone make you feel this way? It's just I've noticed you've been saying that line a lot during this game...
Not everyone. For example today you and Legate look like wolves who know each other. :p

Okay, when I was reading what you wrote last night I thought you were meaning the exact opposite.
Anyways, I don't think I completely downplaying the possibility of a wolfish vote there. When I wrote "Only if the EW told him to..." I was still considering it was possible. Honestly, I'm just flat out unsure whether Legate's vote was actually wolfish or an innocent's mistake.
Well the thing I posted a while ago was what I thought already then but couldn't just say clearly.
I never said you were "completely downplaying" it. But you downplayed it anyway, and that "only if the EW told him to" doesn't really make it any better.
It was something both a wolf or an innocent would have said - it is true and there's no sense in trying to deny it, as someone would have suggested it anyway in reply to you. So you both encouraged people not to suspect Legate and left yourself a chance to change your mind later (if it started to seem Legate would get lynched).

edit: xed with phantom and Cailín

[Isabellkya]

I am leaning most toward voting for tp or Legate at the moment.

Vote Legate then. I believe I've answered questions about me quite beautifully, thank you.

Does beautifully = truthfully without hidden agendas?

Bah, I'm slowly getting nowhere in finishing my re-reading. Too much multi-tasking.



X'd with Cailin and Aganzir.

[Diamond18]

Stop, stop, the popularity contest won't be fun if there's such a clear favourite. :p

Sometimes that's what Werewolf is; so don't complain to me when you're hanging there. ;)

Hanging where?

[the phantom]

Finally, even if you don't think anything I said about phantom has merit, please, please, go back and look at what I said about the EW and her possible behavior.
I don't completely disagree with that.
Honestly, it might be better if you lynch me toDay. ToMorrow, I may be a wolf, and then you won't know what to trust, and what I said that was helpful or a lie. I'm not so worried about being wolf-ified to save phantom, but more that it will cause people to mistrust the advice I've given regarding the EW.
Ack! I have no idea what to think about that. Does it support the innocent-tearing-innocent-apart theory? Who would say this, Ordo-Roa or WW-Roa?
Does beautifully = truthfully without hidden agendas?
Hmm... I think so. At least I don't think any of my answers contained hidden agendas. Some of my defenses/accusations of others and such do have hidden agendas of a kind, but all of my answers to those questioning me were very straight-forward.

[Cailín]

Yeah, wasn't clear about that, but didn't want to edit. I was referring to the big village tree.

Actually, Diamond does seem to be hiding behind a bit of bluster. Let me just go and investigate her in more depth. :p

[Durelin]

I really want to ignore both Roa and phantom so they end up stuck just talking to each other. I don't want either of them to have the satisfaction of the other being lynched or of themselves being lynched.

On the other hand, I'm with Di in my curiosity.

Anyway.

I'm not even going to attempt to read through everything. Hopefully something interesting will happen before the deadline.

Aganzir has been getting tossed around quite a bit. Target?

Phantom's beating the tar out of Madam Roa and vice versa, which I think is a little over the top

Interesting analysis. I rather think it's the other way around, though.

[Diamond18]

Yeah, wasn't clear about that, but didn't want to edit. I was referring to the big village tree.

Ah, I wasn't sure if you were being literal (threatening) or figurative.

But I am sure not to complain when I'm lynched. I like a good death scene.

And if you mount a successful campaign on me like you did to Nerwen, I shall laugh and laugh. Because being responsible for starting a bandwagon against two innocents in a row would make you the next lynch victim, to be sure. (Though, I'm really not that innocent.)

[Eönwë]

Interesting was Eönwë's vote (q.v. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557342&postcount=156)), and his previous post (q.v. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557314&postcount=130).) He has made one other post in the game, an in-character one. Nowhere do I see how he came to be suspicious of Fantine's motives 'the whole time'.

I was reading the thread throughout th day (at school), Its just that I by the time I'd finished reading there were always more.

I am almost positive Eonwe has played before.

I have never played WW before, anywhere.

Eonwe's first post: Okay, that was really weird. Misplaced. This isn't an RPG, not even an RPG-style game. Why anyone would spend time and effort crafting such a post instead of arguing with someone or repeating obvious points or indulging in far-fetched speculation is beyond me. It almost makes me suspicious of myself for finding it suspicious.

He's either a bored innocent, a clueless innocent, or a wolf wanting to make his presence known but not wanting to give us something to chew on about himself. I don't think the EW would ask him to do that, though - that would be silly.

I'm somewhere in btween the first two (after all, I've never played any form of WW before.

Ok- thats cleared, hopefully. I've never played Werewolf.

[Cailín]

You're quite an intriguing case, Diamond. For all the posts that you've made -- way more than the quiet players -- I can't see a single interesting point that you've offered. Well, maybe that whole bit about being a rebel and not especially on the villagers' side. And there's the questioning of the phantom for his vote, which you get 'bored' with.

But it looks to me like you're hiding in the open, and a bit eager to express how you don't really feel a part of the game -- i.e. have an evil role.

[Eönwë]

To add to suspicious list:
-Eonwe



That's what I'm doing. Or rather, I'm trying to encourage lots of reactions/talking/etc that I can look at and digest after the day is over and then start hunting Wolves.

Is that before or after you've killed them?

Anyway, I've been quite suspicious of his motives the whole time, so:

And he proceeds to vote for him. Lame reasoning, really. If there was any reasoning at all.


That was not the reason. I had already built up a whole case, but sadly never had time to post it (and now it's lost, (precious, lost!)). I was also a slight joke (Digest? Hmm?:rolleyes:). Anyway, I still find him kinda suspicious. The "Vote me! Lynch me! scry me! curse me" idea and there's the whole "Am I a WW or am I the EW" thing too.

Anyway, I'll finish reading posts and then post my thoughts

x-ed with Cailin

[Durelin]

Have you ever played with Di, Cailin?

[Durelin]

Oh yes, you must have. I remember your EW pick list.

[Macalaure]

Ah, but about whom would the GW think more than anyone? The EW.

Ah! the phantom is both, the good and the evil wizard at once! :eek:


Everyone else seems so vanilla in comparison that I'm having trouble forming opinions or focus on any of them.

That's how I feel, too. Less joking, less niceness, more blood, please.


Well, I haven't become any wiser on who to vote for since my last post. Here's my options for today:

Somewhat suspicious
Legate, Aganzir

A vague bad feeling
Kath, Rikae, Diamond, Cailin, Roa, Lalaith, Celuien, McCaber

Not really suspicious, but not too sure
Lily, Izzy, Nilp, Sally, phantom, Lhuna, Brinniel, Ka, morm, Gwath

Rather unsuspicious
Shasta, Lommy, Eonwe, Durelin

As you can see, I have very sharp opinions on almost all of you. :rolleyes:


edit: cross-posted with.... many

[Celuien]

Blargh. Every time I start to think that I'll catch up, there's just more and more. :eek:

Of course, tp and Roa sort of dominated most of the pages. I don't know what to make of the extensiveness of the argument... in some ways, I'd almost expect them to have a 'duel' if they disagreed about something - they're probably two of the (ahem) strongest personalities I've come across in werewolfing. And these loud tussles have tended to be between innocents when I've run across them before, so I think that points to both of them being non-evil - or at least that's what I hope, because if there's anyone who would be bold enough to have a very visible fight while concealing a dark secret, it would probably be one of them.

So I think I'm going to ignore the fighting for now and see what happens...

Back to reading.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Roa: ++Phantom (Phantom1)
Lhuna: ++Mac (Phantom1, Mac1)
Nilp: ++McCaber (Phantom1, Mac1, McCaber1)
Gwath: ++Lalaith (Phantom1, Mac1, McCaber1, Lalaith1)
Morm: ++Brinniel (Phantom1, Mac1, McCaber1, Lalaith1, Brinniel1)

Votes are getting extremely spread out again; Mac still looks wrong, but Legate looks worse... however, Mac's already been voted for; Legate has not. Two hours left for voting, so I'll hold off a bit.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm back, I'm back! (I'm pink, I'm pink... wait, that was different. Nevermind.)

Anyway, I see it doesn't seem that bad, only two pages while I've been away... hope to catch up in a short while! *Drowns deep into reading*

[Diamond18]

You're quite an intriguing case, Diamond. For all the posts that you've made -- way more than the quiet players -- I can't see a single interesting point that you've offered. Well, maybe that whole bit about being a rebel and not especially on the villagers' side. And there's the questioning of the phantom for his vote, which you get 'bored' with.

Interesting points, being helpful, talking substance etc. are so passe. I want arguments! Bitter ones! I want to read magnificent rows and passionate defenses! Sadly only Roa and phantom are delivering, though yesterday you and Newen and Mac and Legate were runners up.

tp did answer my question, sort of, by way of actually addressing Ka, and so I found it boring to pursue him any longer when I'm sure he'd just reference that post. Probably I could have gotten out some knives and gone at him, oh well at least Roa did. :)

Perhaps I will fabricate some harsh opinions on people to get things going.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Interesting points, being helpful, talking substance etc. are so passe. I want arguments! Bitter ones! I want to read magnificent rows and passionate defenses! Sadly only Roa and phantom are delivering, though yesterday you and Newen and Mac and Legate were runners up.

tp did answer my question, sort of, by way of actually addressing Ka, and so I found it boring to pursue him any longer when I'm sure he'd just reference that post. Probably I could have gotten out some knives and gone at him, oh well at least Roa did. :)

Perhaps I will fabricate some harsh opinions on people to get things going.

Di! How could you?! She's a wolf, I swear it, she and her fellow evil cohorts and that witch of an Evil Wizard! I swear, Diamond, I will come after you relentlessly until you have paid for what you have done!!

(How's that? :p)

[Diamond18]

An improvement.

Shasta, weren't we wolves together once? And didn't we eat the village? Yes, yes, I do believe we did. You're one of those super uber sneaky wolves whom no one suspects, dangerous sort of fellow to have around.

I'll be watching you.

[Rikae]

I agree with Diamond. Unfortunately, I can't fabricate passion from thin air, so it will have to wait until someone ticks me off (probably by attacking Mac :rolleyes:).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

An improvement.

Shasta, weren't we wolves together once? And didn't we eat the village? Yes, yes, I do believe we did. You're one of those super uber sneaky wolves whom no one suspects, dangerous sort of fellow to have around.

I'll be watching you.

Aww look, she remembered! <3

Yes, the one time I wasn't an ordo, I was a wolf with you. I believe our cohorts were none other than Brinn and Mac, if I'm not mistaken. And I seem to remember that I wasn't the only one classified as a "sneaky" wolf, Miss Diamond.

I'll be watching you right back.

[Durelin]

I find it funny that Isabel seems to have been quietly following in Roa's footsteps the past two days, focusing on nothing but general debates and the phantom, and yet she voted for Roa.

I have never played WW before, anywhere.

...

I'm somewhere in btween the first two (after all, I've never played any form of WW before.

Ok- thats cleared, hopefully. I've never played Werewolf.

We got the idea. :p

Looking back, it's interesting how much Lommy urged on the Aganzir "bandwagon," testing the waters repeatedly before making the first vote.

Shasta posted something vaguely interesting!

[satansaloser2005]

++Cabbie



What are the odds I could go back to work now and explain this more in-depth toMorrow? Not likely, so I'll do my best in a minute or less. Cabbie's not acting right; it's hard to explain with so little time but I'll try to get a post ready for toMorrow, but at the moment he just seems off and it worries me, that and he's been quiet and all. The only real concrete evidence I've got is his Nerwen vote, but even that could have been just a poorly-placed suspicion. I don't know. I have to go. Sorry. :(

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Cabbie



What are the odds I could go back to work now and explain this more in-depth toMorrow? Not likely, so I'll do my best in a minute or less. Cabbie's not acting right; it's hard to explain with so little time but I'll try to get a post ready for toMorrow, but at the moment he just seems off and it worries me, that and he's been quiet and all. The only real concrete evidence I've got is his Nerwen vote, but even that could have been just a poorly-placed suspicion. I don't know. I have to go. Sorry. :(

Is it just me or is this strangely reminiscent of Gwath's vote?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I find it funny that Isabel seems to have been quietly following in Roa's footsteps the past two days, focusing on nothing but general debates and the phantom, and yet she voted for Roa.



We got the idea. :p

Looking back, it's interesting how much Lommy urged on the Aganzir "bandwagon," testing the waters repeatedly before making the first vote.

Shasta posted something vaguely interesting!

Always happy to be of entertainment value. :p

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber

McCaber- 2
tp- 1
Mac- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1

[Cailín]

Phantom, I often see your side of things and give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have about double the number of posts as the next highest. Why'd you lose your ability to post like a proper player? :p

I'm not sure who to vote for yet. Sally still looks dodgy to me; Diamond's just itching for me to choose her ( :D ) and I'm suspicious of Gwathagor and Brinniel.

[Celuien]

Hmm. After all of the reading and attempted thinking, I'm not really any closer to definite suspicions than I was at the beginning. I wish I had time for more thorough reasoning... call this a hunch, but I do have a vaguely bad feeling about Cailín - partly for this directed at Di:
But it looks to me like you're hiding in the open, and a bit eager to express how you don't really feel a part of the game -- i.e. have an evil role.
And I find Di unsuspicious. So...

++ Cailín

[Thinlómien]

I'm back, I'm back! (I'm pink, I'm pink... wait, that was different. Nevermind.)Thanks for making my reading process take even more time because after the ending I had to check if there were any "l"'s involved in the "back"s...

:-DDD
I must laugh at this a bit since you remind me so much of a recent RPG character of mineNooooooooooooooooooooo!

Okay, then off to talk some sense.

I cannot really understand why no one has brought up the reason that looks very obvious to me for Volo and Kit's death. They were both good players but not ones valued as much as they probably should (sort of "slip under the radar ww masters"), involved in the game in mediocre amounts and have a tendeny to survive. Perfect gifted picks for the GW? I think so, at least along with a couple more similar-style players. Now, the EW would realise this too (surely if he's trying to find gifteds?) and decide to kill them. And he got lucky with nailing the seer. I don't believe that anyone would have been able to find a seer hint from Volo's posts (maybe because I couldn't...). (Although, if I had to name a person who could have spotted Volo acting seerish, it would be a certain miss whose name begins with A and ends with r...)

As for Roa and phantom, I wasn't as foolish as some *coughMaccough* to skip their debate. It lead me to believe that at least one of them is evil. The possible combinations are (innocent means ordo, gifted or GW here) EW+wolf, wolf+wolf (I can so see the Ew telling them to keep fighting and take all the attention, this also goes for the possibility of either of them actually being the EW), wolf+innocent (again, EW wanting to stir more trouble and mislead the village) or even EW + innocent, but that seems a little improbable. Because of this, I'm very inclined to vote one of them toDay, probably tp, because he seems less innocent and is less reasonable and to be honest is more annoying. (Besides, reading the thread becomes far less time-consuming if we kill him off... ;))

I could also vote Agan, she keeps being very odd and jumpy. Of other I really can't say. I would need more time to think...

Frankly, I got annoyed with her later in the day. It's ok if someone just says I don't sit right with them, but I disliked the way she started to use her RL knowledge of me as a basis for accusations (see, now everyone for instance thinks that I'd love to be the EW which is something she invented herself, and besides she was wrong).Now sorry dear but this is plain jumpy once aga(i)n. I don't really understand why you criticise me for using my knowledge of you. I use my knowledge of everybody all the time. Frankly, such thing could not be forbidden or else we (meaning all us ww players) could not play unless we had never met one another before anywhere. It's pointless to separate some knowledge to be RL-knowledge and some to be BD-knowledge. If I had some extra knowledge of some player from PMs or MSN, which one would it be? If I had some extra knowledge of some player because of reading some BD thread, which one would it be? Plain silly. I can tell you that even if I didn't know you from RL, I would guess that you'd enjoy being a wizard, especially the evil one. You know, it kind of glows of you... *Mr Hugo expression* Lastly, I never claimed you said you wanted to be the EW. I only stated it as my opinion of you.

And thus far she has always said she can't really read me (which, I think, is not something every player here knows), and now all of a sudden she claims to be the one who can figure me out the best (yes, she said she usually can't, but the way she behaves suggests completely the opposite).I do not claim that! I definitely don't! I don't think that way! (Hey, using more exclamation marks than Legate... :smokin: ) Really, that was a bad accusation. Are you just annoyed that for once I have an inkling that you're evil, I'm not clueless once again? Or are you annoyed because I dare to suspect you more than probably ever before? Whatever, it's silliness. I'm far from confident of your guilt, but I do suspect you. I don't claim I know you're guilty. I don't. I just have a bad feeling about you and I can't see what's so wrong with it...

Sorry for getting a bit heated but Agan's points annoy me. :p

The last thing that really stands out to me that I don't like it how Rikae first plays the idea of being a wolf and then jokes about being EW as her previous and future initials are E.W. Okay, I can understand the latter as it's quite funny, but combined it to the "I'm a wolf"-comment it is worth a little eyebrow-raising...


edit: xed with tp, Cailie and Cel

[Cailín]

Hmm. After all of the reading and attempted thinking, I'm not really any closer to definite suspicions than I was at the beginning. I wish I had time for more thorough reasoning... call this a hunch, but I do have a vaguely bad feeling about Cailín - partly for this directed at Di:

And I find Di unsuspicious. So...

++ Cailín

What a bizarre reason for a vote.

[Aganzir]

Lommy starts her Day 1 by saying that our primary duty is to find and lynch the wolves but be aware of EWish vibes as well, and if we think someone looks more like the EW than anyone looks like a wolf, she should be lynched. Well yes it all looks sensible and nice, but I honestly don't know whether it's because I have "decided" Lommy must be a baddie and therefore interpret everything in that light, or if it really is somehow too nice. Ok, maybe better I quote it.
Our primary duty is to find the wolves. If we find the EW, it's good, but it's not what we should be precisely aiming at. So, in my opinion, we should concentrate on finding wolves, but be aware of EWish vibes as well, and we should primarily lynch wolves, but if someone looks more like EW than anyone looks like a wolf, we should go on and vote him. Like Aunt Izzie and my dear big brother Mac said, there really is no contradiction here. I think it's more a question of priorities.
The "perfect opinion". It nicely covers every aspect of the who-should-be-looked-for thing and looks ah so sweet and innocent a wolf would love to look.

Lommy suggests the EW can be found by looking at how living people have treated the dead wolves. She says herself it's not much, and I'm quite inclined to agree with her. I am pretty sure the EW can play well enough not to look like she was somehow connected to the wolves, and if she doesn't reveal her identity to the wolves she shouldn't have a reason to worry about them either. However, innocent people may have - and most likely some actually have - treated the wolves so that it looks like they were in cahoots with them. The suggestion, however innocent it looks like, is likely to cause more harm than good (or then Lommy is just being very optimistic, which, mind you, is not characteristical for her).

Eek, I don't sit right with Lommy after one in character post in which I jokingly accused people on basis of their family relations or occupation. :eek: She explains her dislike for me with RL reasons:
This rather unchaste young girl, Aganzir, doesn't quite sit right with me. To be honest, something in her cheery and flirty manner annoys me. (I wonder if it's because I can imagine what sort of extremely irritating expression characteristic to her she is having when smirking behind her laptotp and typing. ) Normally, when she grabs my attention this way, she's innocent (she's more careful as a wolf, I think), but now my gut feeling tells me that might not be so. I'm keeping an eye on her.
She promises to keep an eye on me, and in her next post these RL reasons have become serious suspicion.

THE Ka seems a bit too confused to be a wizard, or a wolf either. But one should not forget how treacherous she can be...
I don't like comments like these. "She looks innocent but don't forget she can be treacherous and deceive you! Keep an eye on her! Don't let the innocent-looking pass!"
Wolves just want to create havoc, and one way is to confuse people by saying something like this.

Well, I'm not commenting on Volo's slip because it still baffles me (even though he did explain it - that explanation was a little fishy btw), but I don't certainly think there's anything wrong with Greenie pointing it out: I would have done that had I spotted it.
There again.
Somehow she seems to pick those she accuses and who defends in a nice way; disagrees with some loudmouths to a convenient extent, not enough to make them suspect her but enough not to look like she was trying to gain allies or be nice. And it's defending people that gives allies, not agreeing with them.

She cannot say exactly why I remind her of Agan-wolf who didn't know her fellows but there's "a freaky similarity".
I'd really like to know more about that "freaky similarity".

But if we better wolf candidates, I'm all for keeping her as she's quite sharp and can benefit us as much as her own team.
This quote just makes me nervous. I don't really know a certain reason but I'll try to elaborate.
"I know she's innocent/the EW wants her dead, let's see if I could get people to suspect her. If not I'll vote someone else, he-he, now I say this so no one really wonders if I drop my suspicion later."

Oh but this is a very good point. Where is her characteristic cheer and carelessness? Is it just because this so different from any other game she's played this far, or are there more sinister reasons behind this?
Someone already mentioned this but I want to bring it up again. I have more than once seen wolves phrase their suspicion like that, as a question that's just supposed to make people feel a bit uneasy. "Is it because of x, or could there be more sinister reasons?" I'm not saying innocents don't do it as well, but more rarely than wolves I think.

She seizes on McCab saying he will return with some more solid info. I guess I'm not the best one to accuse anyone of suspecting someone because of how something is phrased, but seizing on one single word is beyond even me.

Still, I do not advise you to trust my judgement of any of them. It is probably as biased and faulty as that of someone who does not know them as well as I do. In fact, Agan is better at fooling me than most other ww players I've played with.
Now this is true, and it's the only thing she could have said there because I would have complained otherwise.

She said if she doesn't have suspicions by the time she leaves, she will vote for a submarine. Well what was suspecting me then? Not a suspicion?

Then...
I'd love to vote Agan and I know Brinn and Volo could do that too, but that really isn't much as tp already has 4 votes... I know I don't really enjoy him being around as he's mostly baffling and a nuisance but lynching him, I think, would be a mistake...
Oh now suddenly that there are other people to vote for me I'm a suspect again! By the way did you notice how Lommy grew nastier and more confident when people actually started to agree with her? In the beginning it was all the same for her whether I'd be lynched or not and now she'd love to vote for me.

Then she could vote for me or Kath (whom she hadn't really mentioned if I remember correctly, too lazy to go back to check but she definitely hadn't suspected her).

Now, what do you know about Agan? Do you think she is the sort who would volunteer to be a Wizard? Does she have time for it?

Big yes to both. And she'd sell her soul to be the EW.
Ai ai ai. If you want to know, I do have the time, I volunteered for the EW when Nog encouraged people to do so (mightn't have otherwise), wasn't chosen and that's it. And I'm just happy I wasn't since when I think about it I'm really not sure if I could have handled it.

And you've said that so many times that it starts to be a suspicious statement, especially now as you're really only in a tiny danger of actually getting lynched.
I don't consider having the second most votes "a tiny danger".

**

Lommy's points against me are taken out of thin air. It looks much more like a deliberate decision to start to suspect someone than actual suspicion because someone is suspicious - gradually switching from random IC reasons to gut feelings and then making my posts look suspicious.

Yes, I admit that I am suspicious of her because she is of me, but because I know I am innocent and her suspicion doesn't make sense (well and she hasn't been doing much else than accusing me so maybe it's understandable?).

I'm pretty positive Lommy isn't the EW though, she is too daring and suspicious to be that. I'd expect the EW to keep a bit lower profile and not looking so plain wolfish. A wolf with orders to create as much havoc and lynch as many innocents as possible, and maybe cover the EW & the other wolves' tracks. Just what I would have told Lommy if I had been the EW and picked her. Suits her nature well. :p

And good work Lommy, because I didn't even think you might be a wolf before you started accusing me.

I'm most probably going to vote for her today.

edit: xed since phantom's #411

[Cailín]

Sorry, that post looks stupid because it's missing my original quotation. :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

Phantom, I often see your side of things and give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have about double the number of posts as the next highest. Why'd you lose your ability to post like a proper player?
Heh heh... Actually that's pretty typical. Do you recall Fea's game? I had over 100 posts just on that thread. Mith kept track of posting counts. I found this one on one of the latter pages-
the phantom- 95
The Saucepan Man- 54
Mithalwen- 43
Diamond18- 35
Kath- 16
I have almost twice as many as SPM! That's quite an accomplishment if you ask me.

So really, this is pretty standard stuff from me.
probably tp, because he seems less innocent and is less reasonable
Maybe less innocent, but I have not been less reasonable. Her attack post was a series of misquotes and grasping. I've been rather reasonable I'm thinking.

[Aganzir]

I don't really understand why you criticise me for using my knowledge of you.
Because you do it in a way that suggests you possessed the ultimate truth about my alignment and everyone should believe you. That's what kind of impression I get when I read your posts. And I don't like it.

I do not claim that! I definitely don't! I don't think that way!
Then why does it look like that? :eek:

Are you just annoyed that for once I have an inkling that you're evil, I'm not clueless once again? Or are you annoyed because I dare to suspect you more than probably ever before?
I am annoyed because your reasons are bad!

Hope you're enjoying yourself phantom.

edit: xed with him

[Macalaure]

As for Roa and phantom, I wasn't as foolish as some *coughMaccough* to skip their debate.As others have stated, I more and more got the feeling of two innocents bashing it out until both are lynched. I'm only keeping Roa a little higher in my suspicions because - she's Roa!

The argument between you and Aganzir, however, looks very, very sinister to me. The last posts of you two confirm that to me. One of you two is evil... but who??

[Diamond18]

Okay, since I have neither the time (it would take many hours and the deadline for today is less than two away) nor the energy to do a comprehensive analysis of everyone, I can't really make a fair case for or against anyone. (Where's the fun in fairness, anyhow?) So here's a slipshod, ambivalent, touchy-feely list of my vague opinions and baseless assumptions about the village.

Greenie -- massive echoing blank here. I can't remember anything about her.

Shasta -- As I said, I'll be watching him. He's a cheerful killer.

Isabellkaya -- has posted very little, has said nothing original or interesting, yet without being as refreshingly forthright about it as yours truly. Hmm. I've never played with her before so I don't know her habits, but this is making me think that getting rid of her would be no great loss.

Lommy -- smooth operator. Wouldn't be surprised if she were rotten to the core.

Nilp -- well if he had any special role he probably wouldn't have forget that it was Day 1. Just sayin.

Eönwë -- the fact that there are two Eonwe's blows my mind. I've played with the one who's played before, and spent all game assuming it was him, now that I know differently, I don't really know that I can make any assumptions about him at all.

Kath -- her page by page recaps make me want to lynch her just to stop her from posting them. Besides, I know how effortlessly evil she can be.

Sally -- Never played with her before, but I like her. She makes me laugh.

Mac-Daddy -- Oh come on, we all know he applied to be a wizard. The man's a born leader, I've modded a game where he was a werecreature, and played with him as one, he is so on my possible wizard list. But IS he actually one? Don't know.

Rikae -- Mommy! Are those wizard robes I see in your closet? I think you applied, anyway.

the phantom -- amuses me.

Cailín -- eeeeeeeeevil. She had made all up on her side yesterday (well, seeing as I didn't actually have time to read the thread, technically she had me on her side during the night while I read it over.) I really started to think that I'd voted for a wolf by luck of the draw (sparing phantom by voting for the next in line) but then she proved innocent and it makes Cailin look bad.

Lhunardawen -- I think Lhuna's innocent. I'm not getting any whiffs of angst or guilt off of her, and I know she doesn't like being evil, so I'm thinking she's alright. Let's lynch her, she's too nice and isn't contributing to my desire for a mass fight-a-thon.

Durelin -- Dury/Durie/Durinator. Not sure what's going on there, but she corrects peoples's word usage. If only she'd be more nasty about it and not back down.

Roa -- It would be funny if she were the EW again. Ha. But really, the insight she brings (has brought) is valuable. My own insight from the former DW game reminds me that nobody assassinates an innocent quite like Roa (she eviscerated my posts in the game, if I hadn't known better I'd have thought I was a wolf) so her gigantic sprawling case against Phantom contains whiffs of evil. I like it, has a nice odor.

Brinn -- Overly thoughtful.

Legate -- Sneaky. Complains about long posts while writing a long post, oh ho ho, that's like me complaining about lack of substance in any one of my posts.

Lalaith -- lalaith is right, she's laughing at US ALL behind that quiet exterior. I'm getting "evil" vibes due to the overall lack of whiffiness either way.

Aganzir -- Eh. I don't know.

The Ka -- I like.

morm -- Wait, he's playing in this game?? :rolleyes:

Celuien -- see morm

Gwathagor -- Beats me.

McCaber -- If Cailin is evil SO IS HE.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I pity anyone who actually read all that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Truthfully, since allegiances are constantly changing in this game, all analysis of previous days will ultimately be moot and a big chunkalicious waste of time. IF you're looking for wolves. It's only a viable way to spend you're day if you're looking for the only two players who are never going to change, ever. The Wizards.

Personally, I think that phantom is one of the Wizards. He probably bribed Nogrod with promises of Cornhuskers paraphernalia if he made him a Wizard. Let's lynch him an find out!

By the by, I don't think it's all that harmful to talk about who you think the wizards are. Whoever they are, they're both smart and capable players, otherwise Nogrod wouldn't have entrusted the wizard roles to them. So they are more than perfectly capable to figure who are likely wizards, themselves. I'm not going to worry that my rantings and babblings and speculations are going to influence them either way.

[the phantom]

Hope you're enjoying yourself phantom.
Oh, I am! Keep it up! It's making me all hot.

[Rikae]

The last thing that really stands out to me that I don't like it how Rikae first plays the idea of being a wolf and then jokes about being EW as her previous and future initials are E.W. Okay, I can understand the latter as it's quite funny, but combined it to the "I'm a wolf"-comment it is worth a little eyebrow-raising...

Hey, somebody noticed! :D
Now, would I say that if I were really evil? :Merisu:

*chuckles*

Anyway, I find this Lommy-Agan thing that's going on at the moment a little fabricated. It definitely gives me the feeling of the EW pulling the strings in the background - then, on the other hand, I said that about the Phantom-Roa thing as well, and I doubt the EW would want 2-4 wolves involved in heated fights like this. As it is, (and as much as I hate doing what that young whippersnapper tells me), I think I'll go for
++Legate
and leave those debates to be sorted out at a later time.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since The Phantom

[Shastanis Althreduin]

We've got some bad weather heading our way (it's heading north, so Sally and Phantom, watch out! :eek:) and I've got to vote before something happens to my internet.

++Legate... my prime suspect at this point.

[Aganzir]

Anyway, I find this Lommy-Agan thing that's going on at the moment a little fabricated. It definitely gives me the feeling of the EW pulling the strings in the background
It definitely feels like that, since the very beginning.

[Macalaure]

Alright... it's midnight here... my brain capacity is slowly tending towards "black, green, wolves, lynch"...

I don't want to vote Lommy without reassessing her before. I think I'd like Legate around one more day. I find Kath creepy, but she can wait another day, too.

++Aganzir

I don't have anybody right now I can vote for with a really good conscience, I fear.

[Aganzir]

Why thank you Mac :rolleyes:

[Diamond18]

Sorry for getting a bit heated but Agan's points annoy me. :p


Don't apologize, we need more heat.

At least, I like reading heated arguments.

Oh, and Celuien seems to be posting more, so I'll have to change my assessment of her. I like that she sees the milk curdling eviiiiiil that is Cailin.

Diamond's just itching for me to choose her ( :p )

:Merisu:

[Durelin]

Lommy is freakin' me out. Okay, so is Aganzir, but Agan seems genuinely frustrated and not worried about showing it anymore, which makes me feel a little better about her. Of course, she has been getting much more pressure than Lommy...which I don't really understand, actually. Mostly it's been because of Lommy - she certainly started it all.

Oh now suddenly that there are other people to vote for me I'm a suspect again! By the way did you notice how Lommy grew nastier and more confident when people actually started to agree with her?

I agree with you here. Looking over the posts leading up to her vote for you, she says this:

I'd love to vote Agan and I know Brinn and Volo could do that too, but that really isn't much as tp already has 4 votes...

And then a little bit later:

Anyway, like I just said, I'd love to vote Agan. I'd also like to vote Kath because she has been rather unconstructive toDay, will probably slip under the radar, could have applied to be the EW and would be a good wolf pick for the EW. Sadly, I might have to choose someone else...

She's practically begging for others to go for Aganzir. And then there's the "she'd sell her soul to be the EW." Another toss in to make people worried.

And then seems to vote once it looks like Brinn and Volo are with her, and after Legate says this:

If it were to choose between her and some of the other two named, even she would do... but then... I really don't know. At least at the beginning I thought her innocentish. Lately probably other people's observations, or suspicions of her, influenced me as well in some way.

Lommy's good. Of course I don't doubt Aganzir's skills, either. Which is partly why Lommy feels worse.

Edit: Crossed with a lot.

Edit: #2 Really a lot.

We do still have almost an hour, right? Geez, people posting like we're down to the wire already... :p

[McCaber]

Finally a chance to read and post. This is an epic game if there ever was one. First thing: put me down with the people wanting tp and Roa to sort things out by themselves.

Now Legate I don't like, nor Cailin. But I have to think before I vote, or I might as well lynch myself.

EDIT: crossed with Di and Durelin

[Brinniel]

Greenie: Hasn't posted terribly much, but so far everything she said seems genuine to me.

Shasta: I wasn't too fond of his voting with not much explanation yesterDay, but toDay he seems better. His analyses are helpful and I think he's giving a clearer idea of his opinions. Not sure why others suspect him so much. One thing to note: Shasta's been known to get lynched early on and more often than not he's innocent.

Izzy: Taking a closer look, her vote for Roa really did come out of nowhere...and she still hasn't explained it. She seems to discuss the general rules more than about players which worries me, though I notice she's starting to focus more on phantom.

Lommy: As I mentioned yesterDay, I feel pretty good about her. I agree with some of her arguments and think what she's said so far is sensible and have no reason to suspect her. She's been rather quiet toDay which is unusual, but as she mentioned it's for RL reasons.

Nilp: Was absent yesterDay. ToDay he seems to be pretty helpful...he makes a good point about the hunter, though I disagree that we should disregard certain people for that reason. I've never played with Nilp before so I don't know his playing style, but so far nothing sets off alarms for me.

Eonwe: Still not happy with his vote yesterDay, but I'm thinking it's more likely a newbie error. While I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of him becoming a wolf in the future, I really kind of doubt the EW would've chosen him from the get-go...especially without knowing how he plays.

Kath: She's made some posts toDay, but not very many. Nothing about her screams suspicious or innocent. I really don't have an opinion on her yet.

Sally: Seems to be her usual self...very silly and chatty which people people sometimes interprete as suspicious, but I don't. I can't remember what she's like when she's actually a wolf...perhaps I ought to check. But right now she looks more likely innocent.

Mac: Haven't really discussed him before, but yesterDay I didn't really like the fact that he suspected those he disagreed with and also making that statement about Greenie pointing out Volo's "slip." And I don't know what to think about on row with Legate. But toDay I'm feeling better about him; he's making more sense, especially with the discussion about the Nerwen-bandwagon.

Rikae: Seems sensible enough and as others have mentioned, a lot more mellow than usual. Now, is that a good or bad thing? Right now, I think it means she's more likely innocent.

the phantom: Well, he's received a lot attention so far. While he's never worried me too much, there were some quotes of his I found a bit suspicious and I did question. His behaviour seemed slightly suspicious last night, but today all of his posts are a lot more reasonable and I'm starting to feel better about him.

Diamond: Not sure what to think about her vote, which helped seal Nerwen's fate. I know it was to save tp, but other than him being fun to have around, what reason did she have to save him? As for toDay, ehm...well... I'll be honest- Di's a big question mark right now.

Cailin: I mentioned yesterDay I found her a bit suspicious for her attacks on Nerwen and the fact she was eager to suspect someone for copying a misquote. As for toDay...I'm not sure what she's getting at with her first post looking for clues from the dead; there are no dreams so there shouldn't be clues. I also think she too quickly disregards the possibility that tp or Roa could be evil. I've still got my eye on this one.

Lhuna: Makes an argument against Mac which I don't find entirely unreasonable. She gives off the sweet and innocent vibe. But I have to be careful because last time I said that she turned out to be a wolf.

Durelin: Seems inquisitive (at least towards me) and what's the word...feisty. It's been awhile since I played with Durelin but I think that's just her style. But she does worry me a bit, because I notice as wolf she manages to slip under-the-radar rather easily.

Roa: I'm not sure what to think of her and the row with tp. But it really does worry me that she refuse to share thoughts on anyone else. As strongly as you feel about tp, you can't put all your egg in one basket. What if you're wrong?

Legate: Okay I admit, I'm kinda going back and forth on him. His vote yesterDay worries me, but not enough to bring him to the top of my suspicious list. ToDay he's being more reasonable. Someone mentioned he's being cautious as a reason to suspect him. I say that makes him seem more innocent to me....as I remember, an evil Legate is more bold than cautious.

Lalaith: Hmm...compared to others in the Nerwen bandwagon, her vote doesn't seem to come from nowhere. She's been very quiet due to RL reason, so I really can't make much of an opinion of her.

Aganzir: I suspected her yesterDay for already said reasons, and I continue to bring that suspicion into toDay. ToDay she's still reading way too much into things. On the top of my list.

Ka: Seems pretty genuine to me. I have no reason to suspect her.

morm: I really don't understand what he has against me...he doesn't explain it as anymore than a hunch. Yet at the same time, I don't find his persistence suspicious. I think it's more likely he's a innocent who's sorely mistaken.

Celuien: She doesn't post much, but votes without much reasoning to back that vote up. She somewhat worries me.

Gwath: His vote was random yesterDay, but he did later explain it. I started to feel alright about him, but then he votes for Lalaith...which I really don't understand. He mentioned her earlier, but said he'd watch her toDay. She's hardly posted, and I don't see what she's done that makes her the best lynching candidate.

McCaber: He's received some votes toDay, which I can understand considering yesterDay's random vote. But there were may other random votes yesterDay as well. McCaber hasn't shown up to defend himself, so don't really know if I want to lynch him.

-----------------

So...

Suspicious: Cailin, Aganzir

Borderline Suspicious: Izzy, Roa, Celuien, Gwath, McCaber

No Idea: Kath, Mac, phantom, Diamond, Lhuna, Durelin, Legate, Lalaith

Most Likely Innocent: Greenie, Shasta, Lommy, Nilp, Eonwe, Sally, Rikae, Ka, morm

One comment: I think it's a bad idea for people to ignore the Roa/phantom argument. While they may be just two ordos, it's certainly also possible that one (or both) are evil.

Yeesh...it took me two hours to write this up (including looking up old posts and reading new ones in between). But at least it gives me a better idea on my own thoughts...

EDIT: Oh, I didn't see all these last posts...didn't realise there was a new page...

[THE Ka]

I really want to ignore both Roa and phantom so they end up stuck just talking to each other. I don't want either of them to have the satisfaction of the other being lynched or of themselves being lynched.

Somewhat the same sentiments here…
Bandwagons are so tempting when you don’t have a clue on anyone besides faint suspicions, but the ones offered so far are really not worth it at all.

Not to start yet another, I’ve been mulling over Legate’s actions while I’ve been away. Don’t really want to vote for him, because I’d rather have a better case than to do such a thing rashly on the second Day, but his strange nature the past two Days has sparked my curiosity. Usually he only acts this way on the first Day, not nearly all the way through the second. Might just be playing WW with exams overhead (probably a similar why reason I’m so ‘serious’ right now and can’t think of anything besides them), but I’d rather ask why instead since I don’t like to assume.
Why are you acting more anxious than usual? Just curious.

Maybe because you kept dropping ranger hints all the time since you wanted to have fun?

Probably… It’s interesting, because I always thought I’d have so much fun being a gifted for once, but it turned out to be a job with all of the protecting, picking the right person, ugh.
I have a soft spot for being an ordo. Must be the challenge and all the suspicion (though I feel completely lacking in all of that today. Just the challenge of not knowing squat about anyone.).

Lalaith, I don’t have a single bloody clue about. Due to that this is the first time playing with her, and that she is quite busy at the moment. I could go with others’ experiences with her, but that’s the easy way out and I’d feel more rotten than usual. Also, she’s my mother. Don’t know how well I feel about plugging out a vote and blind sighting her with no evidence. Then again, she might as well eat her little daughter in her sleep as well.
Mama I feel I hardly know you!

If you want to catch a criminal, you need to think like a criminal.

Very true, but you have to remember that the criminals and innocents alike don’t care for it very much.
Get to know the person, apply different scenarios of roles, add competing elements and then assess. Doesn’t always work, but at least I can sleep somewhat at night.

Also unfortunately, it’s very easy for the ‘criminals’ to use that against you when they want to hide, so you need to mix it up.
… Now I’m going to watch you closely Mac, you’re giving the impression of wanting to be, controversial. ;)

Wolves just want to create havoc, and one way is to confuse people by saying something like this.

I remember gifted/innocent Lommy was far more pensive at times. Some take this as quietly hiding something, but she always rounded her arguments one way or another.
She does seem a bit different at times in this game, but I guess she could be hiding anything if she really wanted to, especially under a perceived nature of intent (or just by what we have come to know).That I can’t doubt in her ability. She’ll be difficult to access later on until there is less limelight with others in general.

... And if you're perpetuating that crutch of 'what we know or should guide to Lommy' then I'll never forgive you.:Merisu:

I have to leave for a shortwhile, but I might be back by DL. Hopefully with my mind made up about something.

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber
Cel for Cailin
Rikae for Legate
Shasta for Legate
Mac for Agan

McCaber- 2
Legate- 2
tp- 1
Mac- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1
Cailin- 1
Agan- 1

[Isabellkya]

In response to Brin, my vote was almost completely random. It was random out of the people whom I had an inkling of suspicion towards yesterDay - coupled with the fact that it was nearing deadline. Well what I thought was deadline, but alas I'd forgotten I'm in PDT not PST.

Pah. Just when I want to go away from phantom, I read one of his posts.. and he says something... mildly interesting.
..... "tear her post up like a piece of paper,' in reference to Roa.

I skimmed that lengthy post. I just want to chalk all of his (phantom's) shenanigans and theatrics to trying to do anything and everything, to be scried by both sides; though obviously not in the same Night.

Either way, I'm not entirely sure of Roa's and Phantom's innocent village intentions. Oh yes, they both have Village intentions, but I am doubting that they are for the good.


Well, I suspected Aganzir yesterDay before Volo was a known innocent and I still suspect her toDay. I see nothing wrong with using a known innocent's quote to support my feelings about another player. Of course, Volo could easily be wrong with her, but as I do suspect Aganzir I think he may be onto something...

All well and good, but you shouldn't be using the "known innocent" status to try and add weight to your suspicions and arguments. A known-dead innocent does not equal all knowing.


X'd since the end of Page 11. Dear me, every time I think I'm caught up, another page and a half pops up.

[Durelin]

Soooo...any possibility of '(The) Durinator' sticking?

[Diamond18]

An imagined exchange:

Nogrod: "What would like for your birthday this year, Lommy dear?"
Lommy: "A pony!"
Nogrod: "Now dear, you know we can't afford a pony."
Lommy: "Then I want to be the evil wizard!"
Nogrod: "Alright, sweetheart."
Lommy: "Yay! I'm gonna grind Agan's bones up and make her into bread, mwah ha ha!"

:p

As tongue-in-cheek as that is, the whole Lommy-Lom/Aganzir back and forth does increase my notion of Lommy as a shady she pen... wait. But you get the idea.

[A Little Green]

I'd much rather see a continuation of the Lommy versus Agan battle. Or it would also be fine to see Roa lynched since the EW might have given her "get TP lynched so we don't have to waste a kill/scry on him" instructions.I think this quote by the phantom quite much summarises the Day. Phantom and Roa are quarreling, as are Lommy and Agan. I don't like the way personal arguements between pairs are drawing the village's (erm... I mean, at least my) attention. I must confess I still haven't got a clue of this game. I haven't been quite able to read anyone, nor do I have the time to do so now. :(

I'll try my best, anyway.

Izzy, McCaber, Celuien, Lalaith, morm: under the radar

Kath, Brinn, Rikae, Durelin: innocentish

the phantom: either frustrated ordo, wolf or EW (at the moment I'm most inclined to think the first..)

Roa: innocent?

Lommy, Cailín, Di, Sally: can't say.

Gwath: looming between suspicious and harmless.

Shasta: contributing more than usual, innocentish

Agan: I guess she, too, is but a little frustrated ordo, but I wouldn't be surprised to find her a wolf or even the EW..

Mac, Legate: I don't know what to make of either of these guys, either... Both could be just anything.

My apologies for the ones I forgot as there's bound to be those... :rolleyes: I don't yet know who to vote but I have to do it very very soon because Lommy still feels the need to post.. Aieee! I think my toDay's vote will go to either some inactive submarine (McCaber, Izzie or morm?) or to someone whose death might reveal something (tp?).


EDIT: x-ed since Agan

[Aganzir]

I think my toDay's vote will go to either some inactive submarine (McCaber, Izzie or morm?) or to someone whose death might reveal something (tp?).
Read my points about Lommy! She is a wolf.

[Diamond18]

Soooo...any possibility of '(The) Durinator' sticking?

Put it in your signature. That will help.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I'm tired of hearing people say "at least one of these two are evil" and "if this person's evil the other one has to be evil"

Of course it's possible that the wolves know each other, or one's a wolf and one's the EW. But it's also possible that the wolves don't know each other and are attacking each other (or a wolf's attacking the EW). We can't suspect or disregard someone solely based on how they treated someone who has been proven innocent or guilty...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So this was the "short while". Okay.

I think I already answered this in that same post, but anyway... We look for a connection between wolves and the EW by lynching a wolf, then analysing reasons why an EW would scry that player and who that possibly could be. That's the best way I can think of doing it...other than by suspicious behaviour.
Ah, so that! Well, how inventive :rolleyes: I thought you had something more special in mind. Of course then. All right.

Why the evil team picked Kitanna is beyond me. I was thinking she'd be a good candidate to be added to the evil team last Night.
Why do you think so, if I may ask?

That quoted post involving Leggie stands out because it gives me the strong feeling of you trying to get into someone's good side (by thanking him for agreeing with you and offering apologies for disagreeing with him).
Although this issue concerns me, I don't see it the way you do; I see the way you put it somewhat flawed. He was actually doing the opposite, or that was the outcome: he thanked me, but quite rudely attacked me after that - or that was my feeling. So not the effect you describe, quite the opposite, if I'm to speak for myself.
The fact that I took it rather in the offensive way does not mean he did not mean it the way you say, however, I think it's actually not like that and that he really did NOT mean it the way you say.

Legate feels off, and I get the feeling he is trying to appear that way, somehow. I don't think he would do that innocently.
What do you mean by that?

Volo voted for Agan; suspected Legate, Greenie, Sally (mildly), tp (at first) Celuien, and Cailín; and defended tp and Agan (at first).

So morm, Agan, and Legate are probably innocent. (Or they are controlled by a very bold EW--or perhaps even one of them is! But I'll stick with what I said first.)
Do you think it would be so easy? Well, it may have something to it, but I won't put it as clear way as you do. "Inclined not to do so", the EW will be, but then, even if some of the Wolves were one of those named, he would not need to care that much. Although I appreciate the idea going this way, it's not bulletproof.

I think we have games mixed up. I’m referring to when you were a mod of the gladiator-like game (where three of us at a time would compete, then the game would revert back to a normal ‘village’ setup), y’know, “Taliesin of Nothing”. I was a protector, and unfortunately a very obvious one not only to wolves, but others spotted as well.
Now, in the fellowship-setup, yes I was a very bad wizard, but I felt like mother theresa all the same and to everyone else (except maybe Nogrod).
Oh, okay then. Because A) my LAST game (and you said last) was really the Fellowship of Saruman, and B) the game with the arena, not only was before the Saruman game, but it was Volo's game. I only wrote two narrations for that - when I was already out of the game. All right, so that's nothing. Let's forget that.

Isabel's post bothers me. Completely useless while looking useful. Similar to Nilp, she talks about the village's situation as dire. She doesn't really say anything about anyone, but casts a general sort of suspicion over the "sillyness." All very boring and silly. I think she's a much better submarine than McCaber, and he bothers me, too.
Yes, that's actually well said. I had no particular problems with her yesterDay, but the more I think of her, the more I dislike her, for being really such a submarine. It's not much more other than that, but it is somewhat unnerving.

I would like to vote for either tp or Roa. But I can't decide which one is the wolf, so I am going to hold off casting judgement regarding that particular brawl until tomorrow.
He's odd, he's odd, he's odd. What was that what you replied to someone yesterDay? Was it you, not? Someone said "I will tell you tomorrow" - yes, that was Mr._____ I think - and you said something like "will that be before or after you kill these people?" Or something around these lines. Now look what you do.

Are you for real, Gwathagor? What makes it certain that one has to be a wolf? The fact that they are arguing? That you can't decide whose side you are on, yet whoever ends up less persuasive to you is a wolf, is really quite odd reasoning.
For Gwath, it's not that unusual reasoning, I'd say. He may be wrong (or may not), but I don't think this way of thinking is too odd for him. But, I wonder if you are not a little too jumpy for that? Isn't it that you are building up something here..?

What comes to Lommy being quiet, well, she studied for some hours, then went off to see her friends, and is going to a concert in the evening. She'll be back well before the DL, I think..
Good, I was just about to worry what's up since she's quiet - that will be veeery unusual and it really started to make me wonder...

#71 - More in-character. Thinks Agan is clever, tells Sally to vote Phantom while saying he probably will not... This sets my alarms ringing, for some reason.
Hey hey! A moment, here. I am not telling her to vote the phantom. She voted him, and I, IN-ROLE (as her boyfriend and phantom's business partner!) said that I won't hold grudge against her if she votes (i.e. that I am not going to break up with her because of that. She technically asked that herself). So don't mix it with the game! I think that was clear enough that it was in-character.

#171 - ...I really don't know what to make of this post. Legate, help me out?
As soon as I have time, I'm gonna read what it was and help you out, if possible. Noting down on my schedule, after I finish this reading.

At the moment, and this is subject to and in fact probably will change, I'm leaning toward voting Cabbie due to his....well, due to nothing; that's the problem. He's suspicious based on the fact that he's not suspicious. Does that make sense? Didn't think so.
You are right, it does not. Could you please elaborate a little when you are back?!?!!?

(As you can see, aside from exclamation marks, I can use question marks, too.)

2. Post #71 - Early on, Phantom was gaining votes more than anyone else. Legate seemed to be encouraging Sally to vote for Phantom, while being able himself to stay away.
Here he says that again! That's nonsense... just read it!

Does beautifully = truthfully without hidden agendas?

Bah, I'm slowly getting nowhere in finishing my re-reading. Too much multi-tasking.

X'd with Cailin and Aganzir.

Like I said, Izzy does nothing and then out of the blue posts things like this (which are also nothing, but with accusing edge to it as a bonus). (And what more, the number of people she X-ed with only proves that she is around, only is not posting... which, in this village, is in certain aspect a virtue, right, but then - one would expect you to post at least something more concrete when you have so much time on your hands...)

Thanks for making my reading process take even more time because after the ending I had to check if there were any "l"'s involved in the "back"s...

You're welcome. :D


I see this was shorter than usual. (Or was it...)

***
I really don't know whom to vote. There's too much people. And lots of them can be both ways, if you get my meaning.

I more or less like Nilp. I feel also somewhat good about Durelin, whom I think would have been more chaotic and more evil than she looks now. Isabell does very little to actually involve into things, even to those which concern her.
I can't help it: Aganzir makes sense. I really think she IS innocent. Well, maybe.
And I like Lommy. Otherwise, Lhuna seems odd. Roa and Mr._____ are too much for me to see into. I keep mistaking Cailín for Celuien, but I know I am somewhat worried about Cailín (she's the one with the sand-sea looking avvie, and not the frog, right). The third of them is Di - also somewhat worried, but I can't put my finger on it, would have to look at her more deeply. I simply believe I did not play with these three a lot, I think not with all and only for short times, so don't have much idea about them, but I can't think well of at least one of them being a baddie. Then there are some I omitted now, but whom I mentioned already before; with them it stays more or less the way I said before.

Otherwise, we shal see.

EDIT: Darn it, x-ed since some bottom of the previous page...

[Rikae]

So, Lily, you think everybody is innocentish? :eek:

EDIT: X'd since Lily.

[Kath]

... I have absolutely no idea where those intervening hours just went. This is the trouble with being home and having Guitar Hero again. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I have to be up horribly early in order to sort out some placement stuff so it's voting time.

Now, from looking at some of yesterDay in depth and at least reading the rest of it I had Agan, Durelin, Lommy and Mac on my 'hmm' list. So I'll have a quick look at what they were up to toDay and then vote.

Agan - was a little confused about whether Volo had a dream. Actually, lack of knowledge about the rules makes me think innocent more as if she were a wolf (whether original or later turned) she'd probably have checked that out. Then again, she'd be EW side not GW, so might not look at GW side rules. Finds Brinn, Legate and Lommy suspicious. Do you know, the more I read from thus Day the more innocent I'm finding her. She has a very good, sensible post on page 9 that is making me feel far more secure about her. Picks up Greenie. I saw something suspicious in her earlier, the Volo typo thing. Looks at Lommy too, who has apparently suddenly started using RL knowledge to try and peg her. Suspicious? I wouldn't say so. Use anything you can to try and figure people out! But that post turned me round on Agan again, I don't know why, I think the tone of it put my back up.

Durelin - suspicion of Agan and Lommy, and particularly the way they interacted with each other. Finds the rule that says 'no dream'. Thinks Lommy planted suspicion of Agan ... possibly a good point, we'll see about that when I get to Lommy. Starts to build a case against Lommy. Doesn't like those who are currently flying under the radar, like Izzy and McCaber. Well, fair enough, but with so many people in the village if you aren't phantom, Roa or that noisy you're going to be considered under the radar anyway. I get not liking them for just posting in character, bugs me too. Mentions Izzy did everything Roa did but ended up voting for her ... fair point if it's true. Is still building that case against Lommy a little bit at a time.

Lommy - do you know, I've just rethought this. If Lommy were the EW or a wolf or, well, anything, I really don't think she'd be this ... not here. I'm going to take her off the list, for now at least.

Mac - thinks Nerwen's death was pointless, also doesn't get Kitanna's death. Some suspicion of Lhuna for having vague suspicions as well as suspecting Eonwe with silly reasoning. Gets all his questions of Lhuna answered and seems to give up on that idea, he seemed quite stumped by her rational explanation. Says the Nerwen bandwagon makes phantom look evil (but then so does everything) but argues himself out of this by saying phantom is unlikely to play as he is if he is the EW. Suspicion of Agan, for being too laid back. This game truly is impossible. Don't overreact and you're labelled as a careful wolf, overreact and you're labelled as a defensive wolf. Mildly useless list of who he suspects.

I'm not entirely done (still a whole flipping page to go! Can't you people talk less?) but I have to go. I've been at this too long already. So, I don't like Mac here. He tried to fight against Lhuna but when she gave him nothing he gave up and went after someone else. Everyone has gone after Agan. Is that because there's something there or is someone making her a very effective scapegoat? I can't make my mind up on her. I read one post and she strikes me as innocent, the very next post she looks suspicious. I don't think I could happily vote Durelin unless I'd looked at Lommy as the two of them seem rather closely linked. Therefore:

++MAC

[Cailín]

Nerwen: A lot of people seem to find her suspicious. I admit I was trying to see her as a possible candidate, but I can't find a good enough reason to vote her...

Cailin:

I don't like the idea she'd consider voting someone for copying a misquote. It's a big game and people are unintentionally going to make mistakes. I know I'd probably make the same mistake as Ka. I also don't really like how she so suddenly jumps on Nerwen.

Brinniel, you posted this yesterday, and I thought it was a bit silly at the time, but now that you're still following these thoughts in your suspicions today, I think I must object.

After hearing what THE Ka said, I find her to be sincere. It was a mistake. However, it's far from a bad idea to suspect someone for this. If an innocent person wishes to build a case against someone, they have to investigate the primary sources. If a wolf wants to do it, just to appear to be doing something, he/she can lazily copy someone else's work -- even if that work is faulty. What happened was perfectly suspicious, though I later found myself trusting Ka.

About Nerwen: what do you mean I jumped on her? That is not how our argument started at all.

Posting more in a minute...

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber
Cel for Cailin
Rikae for Legate
Shasta for Legate
Mac for Agan
Kath for Mac

McCaber- 2
Legate- 2
Mac- 2
tp- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1
Cailin- 1
Agan- 1

[Shastanis Althreduin]

*whispers to himself, looking at Aganzir* Now I recall why I liked her... Oh my. She makes sense. She was always clever. Only she had to become such a hateful person...

Anyway, I guess I'm going to be off for a short while... but will return soon to see what's happened.

Sally, my dear, feel free to vote for Phantom, I am not going to blame you for that... although I probably won't stand by you in this decision, you must understand he has been my friend and business partner for too long... not to mention he is my cousin (well who isn't, right... apart from you maybe...). But as I said, at least for now, I won't even suspect him that much. I think he has always been like that...

Will be back.

It didn't seem very clear to me, Legate. It looks like an "I'm leaving" post, with a bit of support for Phantom thrown in, but by "feel free to vote", you seem to be subtly encouraging Sally. I suppose I could be delving a little too in-depth, but it's worth an eyebrow-raise, surely?

[Cailín]

All well and good, but you shouldn't be using the "known innocent" status to try and add weight to your suspicions and arguments. A known-dead innocent does not equal all knowing.

A good point; unfortunately one which must be made in every werewolf game.

[Durelin]

I feel also somewhat good about Durelin, whom I think would have been more chaotic and more evil than she looks now.

I dunno, Di...that looks like pretty good sig material, too...

So am I True Neutral, or maybe even Neutral Good?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Phantom, are you going to post anything more of substance, or are you confining yourself to vote counts? :confused:

Edit: Dury, you look more Chaotic Neutral to me. :p

[the phantom]

Okay, here's where I stand on the leaders.

I don't want to lynch Legate. Like I said I've been flip-flopping on him in my mind, and right now I'm firmly seeing him as innocent. I think maybe I'm getting a feeling for him at last.

I don't want to lynch Mac either. In a couple of other games I've been able to get a decent read on him, so I don't feel the need to kill him to discover what he is.

McCaber- I don't have much of a feeling for him, so I'd prefer him above the other two leaders.

Agan might be the best choice. I'm inclined to trust Lommy's gut which I gather has been screaming "guilty" since the beginning. But I hate to lose the entertainment. :p

[Brinniel]

About Nerwen: what do you mean I jumped on her? That is not how our argument started at all.
From this quote:

This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.
Maybe you didn't see it as jumping on her at the time, but that's how I interpreted it.

[Brinniel]

My voting candidates are same as yesterDay.

Aganzir or Cailin.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Not to start yet another, I’ve been mulling over Legate’s actions while I’ve been away. Don’t really want to vote for him, because I’d rather have a better case than to do such a thing rashly on the second Day, but his strange nature the past two Days has sparked my curiosity. Usually he only acts this way on the first Day, not nearly all the way through the second. Might just be playing WW with exams overhead (probably a similar why reason I’m so ‘serious’ right now and can’t think of anything besides them), but I’d rather ask why instead since I don’t like to assume.
Why are you acting more anxious than usual? Just curious.

May be a combination of several factors. Partially it may be the mood conjured by the exams (the time of relief after one completed with the anxiety of the view of other coming soon), and if you say I act more like first day, it may be also because I feel still like the first day - not very much idea of what's going on, who may be who; the more in such a big village. I can't concentrate on all - there are LOTS of people I hardly even noticed, or, noticed but could not reflect upon... and such. Something like that, probably.

It didn't seem very clear to me, Legate. It looks like an "I'm leaving" post, with a bit of support for Phantom thrown in, but by "feel free to vote", you seem to be subtly encouraging Sally. I suppose I could be delving a little too in-depth, but it's worth an eyebrow-raise, surely?
No, it isn't. The statement "feel free to vote" is from both sides outlined by the words "Sally, my dear," and "I am not going to blame you for that". It's an, how do you call that gramatically, inserted sentence.

[Thinlómien]

Aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhh! Aganzir is making a futile and totally stupid case against me and then turning confident I'm a wolf or something like that and I don't really have time to answer her nonsense as Greenie had to post too and I have to start thinking who I'll vote! If I'm stilla live toMorrow there will be a proper self-defense, but for now I will sum it up as: Agan tries to interpret everything I say in a bad light and deliberatedly misrepresents me, which does not make me one little bit more trusting of her.

Now, as for who to vote, tp and Agan are the only ones who really stand out for me. There are also others I'm vahguely feeling bad about - Cailín, Lalaith, McCaber and Mac, but I'm very aware that apart from Cailín, these are mostly based on other people's suspicions. I've really had too little time to think toDay. I'm a bit at loss with the whole game aargh....


edit: xed with everybody after Kath

[the phantom]

The other candidates-

I have no clue about Cailin. I haven't devoted a read-through to her yet.

I've been a WW with Lal before, so I feel like maybe I can get a feel from her as the village progresses.

Brin- I've already said before that I'm pretty confident about her innocence.

[Aganzir]

Agan might be the best choice. I'm inclined to trust Lommy's gut which I gather has been screaming "guilty" since the beginning. But I hate to lose the entertainment. :p
Inclined to trust Lommy?? Oh please this is what I mean when saying she uses RL knowledge wrong. Have you considered the possibility that's just what she wants you to do?

[Thinlómien]

Phantom Stop Trusting My Judgement On Agan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


EDIT: xed with those two

[Cailín]

From this quote:

This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.

Maybe you didn't see it as jumping on her at the time, but that's how I interpreted it.

Brinn, I barely even know how to respond to this. You're simply choosing one side of the coin. Someone else could just as well say that Nerwen jumped on me. You'd both be equally correct.

But that's not what happened. We cross-posted our suspicions of each other (Nerwen was actually first) and our argument sprang forth thence.

Can you see this? Because if you can't then your single-mindedness is quite worrying.

[the phantom]

phantom Stop Trusting My Judgement On agan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Erm... okay...

Agan, do you want me to trust your judgement on Lommy since she's informed me that following her lead is a bad idea?

[Aganzir]

Aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhh! Aganzir is making a futile and totally stupid case against me and then turning confident I'm a wolf or something like that and I don't really have time to answer her nonsense as Greenie had to post too and I have to start thinking who I'll vote! If I'm stilla live toMorrow there will be a proper self-defense, but for now I will sum it up as: Agan tries to interpret everything I say in a bad light and deliberatedly misrepresents me, which does not make me one little bit more trusting of her.

Now, as for who to vote, tp and Agan are the only ones who really stand out for me. There are also others I'm vahguely feeling bad about - Cailín, Lalaith, McCaber and Mac, but I'm very aware that apart from Cailín, these are mostly based on other people's suspicions. I've really had too little time to think toDay. I'm a bit at loss with the whole game aargh....


edit: xed with everybody after Kath
Because I am confident you're a wolf! And if I'm wrong I deserve to be lynched on day 1 from now on and can even lend a hand and vote myself.

[Thinlómien]

Inclined to trust Lommy?? Oh please this is what I mean when saying she uses RL knowledge wrong. Have you considered the possibility that's just what she wants you to do?I'm not MISUSING it! For heaven's sake, stop that incredibly silly arghument. I DO NOT want him to trust my judgement on you like I've said several times!

edit: xed with some

[Aganzir]

Erm... okay...

Agan, do you want me to trust your judgement on Lommy since she's informed me that following her lead is a bad idea?
What if you just trusted your own judgement?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Inclined to trust Lommy?? Oh please this is what I mean when saying she uses RL knowledge wrong. Have you considered the possibility that's just what she wants you to do?
Phantom Stop Trusting My Judgement On Agan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*amused* Children, play nice.

[Aganzir]

I'm not MISUSING it! For heaven's sake, stop that incredibly silly arghument. I DO NOT want him to trust my judgement on you like I've said several times!

edit: xed with some
It used to look PRETTY MUCH like that.

[Durelin]

Dury, you look more Chaotic Neutral to me.

Another sig-worthy quote! Oh, you people flatter me!

Aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhh!

You aren't on the chopping block yet by far, Lom...

Phantom Stop Trusting My Judgement On Agan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Trying to patch up wounds now that Aganzir's on the offensive, too?

I'm liking all these exclamation points!

Edit: Yes, Lommy has said that twice now.

Edit #2: Oh phantom's really being naughty now, Rikae!

[Thinlómien]

Okay, Agan, I will lynch you on Day1 next time.

Phantom, STOP THAT.

You two are really making me insane.

Would I be allowed to vote both of you? :p ;)


edit: xed with the last three

[Rikae]

You three have me laughing out loud here.

[Diamond18]

I don't know who to vote for, really. The more I read, the more I think that (to mis-quote the Arctic Monkeys) All You People Are Werewolves.

But I do like the ire.

It's tasty.

[Aganzir]

Okay, Agan, I will lynch you on Day1 next time.

Phantom, STOP THAT.

You two are really making me insane.

Would I be allowed to vote both of you? :p ;)


edit: xed with the last three
Nice to see you're still confident

[Isabellkya]

To whoever said something about it, can't be bothered to pull the quote up - not enough time. I've always been "submarine" like.. in 80% of the werewolf games I play. If I were to say my thoughts like others here. about three posts a page - I would get lynched.

Legate, I do.. when I have the time. Oh I'm around, but catching up on the reading, doesn't mean I'm able to post as often as I would like.


Time runs short.. I'm leaning towards Roa or phantom today. Since there have been agruments between the two, for both Days yet.. I don't think we can chance letting them settle it between themselves.

X'd since #483

[Rikae]

Lommy, lemmie get this straight - you want people to vote Agan, but you don't want to be blamed when she's found innocent, right? :p

[the phantom]

What if you just trusted your own judgement?
My own judgement is telling me that you are the most likely WW out of those that have votes, but that it is even more likely that there is not a single WW with a vote thus far and there is no way that I could gather enough votes to lynch one, supposing that I even knew who to go for.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I don't get it. Logically, I would think both Lommy and Agan more like innocent (i.e. from their posting). However, what to make of this, I would not believe them making so extreme points on each other if they weren't true, as, let's face it, they do know each other at least somewhat good. Saying such radical things, however... makes me puzzled. 50 000 - puzzle, probably. Or something like that.

[Lalaith]

I'm back, and reading like a maniac to try to get a grip on the Day's events before deadline.

This comment of Mac's made me fret a bit:
Why the evil team picked Kitanna is beyond me. I was thinking she'd be a good candidate to be added to the evil team last Night.



How could you know that Kitanna could be *added* to the evil team? She could have been a wolf already for all you knew. Sounds a bit dodgy.


And I totally agree with Brinniel on this:
Of course it's possible that the wolves know each other, or one's a wolf and one's the EW. But it's also possible that the wolves don't know each other and are attacking each other (or a wolf's attacking the EW). We can't suspect or disregard someone solely based on how they treated someone who has been proven innocent or guilty...

In fact, I remember phantom and Eomer going at it hammer and tongs, and both of them getting themselves lynched as a result, when both were innocents.

[Thinlómien]

Lommy, lemmie get this straight - you want people to vote Agan, but you don't want to be blamed when she's found innocent, right?You people are really driving me crazy.

Yes, I want you to vote her, but not because you trust I have some supernatural knowledge of her guilt as she happens to be a close friend of mine, but rather because you find my points against, her reasonable or have points of your own against her. If you don't, weel, then do not vote her and let her laugh her evil laugh at you behind her laptop. Then she deserves to survive, as evil as she is.


edit: xed with the last triplet

[Cailín]

Of those with votes, not at all sure what to make of Legate or Mac. Have followed the Aganzir Lommy thing only casually so not sure what to make of it either. The phantom I am sort of uneasy with. McCaber seems very creepy. Lalaith I am very prepared to keep alive. Brinniel I am curious about but hesitant to vote for.

Hmm. I'd rather lynch someone else. Anyone want to lynch Sally or Gwath?

[Brinniel]

Brinn, I barely even know how to respond to this. You're simply choosing one side of the coin. Someone else could just as well say that Nerwen jumped on me. You'd both be equally correct.
Yes, I can see how someone could say the complete opposite. I'm just saying how I see it. I don't think I'm being one-minded as I did look through Nerwen's posts and looked at both sides before I decided you were suspicious.

[Diamond18]

++ MAC-DADDY

I have a feeling I'm going to get a spanking for this.