Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II [Archive] - Page 3

THE Ka

06-05-2008, 04:55 PM

May be a combination of several factors. Partially it may be the mood conjured by the exams (the time of relief after one completed with the anxiety of the view of other coming soon), and if you say I act more like first day, it may be also because I feel still like the first day - not very much idea of what's going on, who may be who; the more in such a big village. I can't concentrate on all - there are LOTS of people I hardly even noticed, or, noticed but could not reflect upon... and such. Something like that, probably.

This seems a good enough justification to me, since (if my sociologist professor is correct…) I’m seeing more of a pattern of different sub-groups forming with their own votes and bandwagons. Which does give reason why in light of the larger original group there is little ‘productivity’. Which also makes it a bloody pain to decide on votes (I almost fell into the Lommy or Agan vote indecision, but now I want to avoid it because I’m certain there are others who are parading it around usefully, or it might not come to anything.).

I’m getting a really bad assumption that the vote today will come down to voting for someone just to see if it will reveal anything. I certainly don’t like it, but I don’t want to have guilt over not voting when others and I have put actual work into it.

What if you just trusted your own judgement?

I feel so devilish taking such advice against its purpose, but I’m going to do it and just vote something already, even if its grounded in nothing but mixed reason and gut feeling.

Haven’t had a good chance to analyze, let alone read much from him, so I’m not going to vote for McCab (still a bit confused as to why he’s such a good choice, if just because he’s “safe” to vote for. Like Di has advised we might need more decision, but from my pov I doubt we’re going to be able to vote for each other and feel ‘good’ about it. You’re going to scuff your knees sometime, get used to it because you’ll learn something.).

Cailin, has proved a bit more of being reasonable today, or at least for her arguments. For that I don’t see much of a direct reason to vote for her. I’m not immediately sure about it, nor do I have any good theories to justify anything.

Brinn, I don’t know much about, I haven’t had much time to analyze per-person today, so I’ll see tomorrow what the fuss is.

Okay, running out of time, might as well get to some point I have some suspicion about.
Mac, I find rather intriguing. Whether he’s innocent or not he’s shown quite a bit at arguing for both sides of a few bandwagons. Albeit a lot more improvement than yesterDay. Still, the whole ‘controversial or not’ justification didn’t make much sense for awhile. Even if there is some improvement, I have a gut feeling it either had some influence from someone else acting in favour, or its for an effort to hide something.

++Mac

McCaber

06-05-2008, 04:55 PM

All right, my moment of truth.

++Legate

EDIT: crossed x4

A Little Green

06-05-2008, 04:55 PM

AAARGH. I hate voting without really suspecting anyone. But vote I will, mind you... :mad: So

++ phantom

Because
a) he might be a wolf
b) he might be EW
c) his death might reveal many things
d) he annoys me (at least at times. :p)

Good night dearies.

the phantom

06-05-2008, 04:56 PM

Sure, NOW you vote for Roa.

Cailín

06-05-2008, 04:56 PM

Nay, I know people are watching. I'm testing to see if there is support. I don't want to throw away my vote.

Brinniel

06-05-2008, 04:56 PM

Oh yes, it was Ka and Greenie I was missing..

Ha! See...flood-voting...

the phantom

06-05-2008, 04:56 PM

Maybe at least with Aganzir we can learn something. Good luck everyone.

Aganzir

06-05-2008, 04:57 PM

++ Mac

since I have to save myself yet again

Macalaure

06-05-2008, 04:57 PM

I've been watching this half-asleep for a while, but now I need to intervene

you're lynching your ranger

Isabellkya

06-05-2008, 04:58 PM

It may be considered throwaway, but I don't see the point in voting for someone whom I've not really looked at. THAT would be folly.

Cailín

06-05-2008, 04:58 PM

So naebody fancied lynching Sally or Gwath, then? :D

Gah, I still have no idea. Think, think, think...

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-05-2008, 04:58 PM

Okay, so how many people haven't voted yet?

I haven't. Since this time, there's my skin at risk, I guess I will end up voting for someone if it's needed to save it. But otherwise, once again, there are no clear favourites among the main (top) suspects here.

Heck, I think Mac more possibly innocent than Agan. Here goes what I said above: I think Lommy and Agan are innocent by posts (although Agan can feign it well, we know), but by their arguing I can't understand how two innocents could get into such thing. I might as well vote Agan.

++Agan

(okay, it was written continuously, and I seemingly x-ed somewhat)

Cailín

06-05-2008, 04:58 PM

Hmm, I suppose I should trust Mac.

Aganzir

06-05-2008, 04:59 PM

I've been watching this half-asleep for a while, but now I need to intervene

you're lynching your ranger
Heck I'm sorry Mac :(

Brinniel

06-05-2008, 04:59 PM

you're lynching your ranger

Crap.

Cailin vote Agan...quick!

Cailín

06-05-2008, 05:00 PM

++AGANZIR

There's time. :p

Diamond18

06-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Nine pages in one day. Madness.

Well, Mac, that would be par for the course, then. I have an especial knack for voting for gifteds.

Brinniel

06-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Anyways, I believe Mac and we'll know soon enough if he's honest...

Nogrod

06-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Time's up!

I share the computer with Lommy & Greenie so please some patience. I'll check the votes once more and will be back soon.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Oh Mac... (well I only hope he did not lie)

EDIT: sorry Nog! (hey, but I'm still on time even if I'm just posting ;) And you said you're gonna make it on 01... okay, okay, kiddin'...)

Aganzir

06-05-2008, 05:00 PM

Ok, good luck darlings then.

And lynch Lommy. I'm so sure of her.

And see what's wrong with Legate and Brinn.

satansaloser2005

06-05-2008, 05:07 PM

Hey all! I know it's past deadline, but I felt the need to say this.

Wow....interesting day much? *shuts her trap*

Nogrod

06-05-2008, 05:09 PM

Agan took six votes and is lynched...

She was a wolf.

Wizards feel free to scry etc.

Narration coming asap... which is not in ten minutes time... :rolleyes:

Nogrod

06-05-2008, 05:59 PM

The boy had fallen asleep in the chair but woke up with the explosion. Then there was another one, and another. Pieces of concrete were falling on him when he took refuge in the corner of the pillbox crawling under one of the beds. The shards of the broken figurine of his mom he had still squeezed in his hand fell to the floor as he ducked underneath the bunk.

He was familiar with the sound. Enemy bombers were emptying their loads on their way back. But it had never been this near.

As the blasts drew away he crawled out from under the bunk and headed out to the trench and towards his home.

There were a few pillars of smoke in the air he could see from down below in the trench. One of them came from the direction of their house. He was distressed but also curious.

He managed to crawl up from the trench eventually only to see what he had anticipated. On the other side of the unsown field there was the house they had lived the last half a year after been evacuated from their home near the frontline.

It was burning.

People – looking like ants from the distance – were rushing in and out around it carrying buckets of water but it all seemed to be in vain. There was no stopping the flames that ate all they could touch.

Herbert crept silently towards the burning house using the treeline as a cover. He had to know what had happened even though he had no wish to be seen by his relatives or neighbours - and the least by the man who claimed to be his father.

As he got nearer he saw some people bowing over a bloodstained body of a woman. There was a man in an uniform kneeling beside her. And then he recognised his mother’s dress.

He ran back as fast as he could.

It was only when he had sat in the dark pillbox for an hour or so that he started searching for the candle. It had fallen on the map with figurines. He picked it up and relit it.

He stared at the figurines on the map with empty eyes swallowing the tears. Two of them had burned while the others were scattered here and there over the tabletop. It felt to him they were screaming. They were screaming at him. HE knew he was doing this but still it was not like he thought it would be. And why those two? He hadn't chosen them.

He wasn't on top of things. He knew it now too well but the anguish was coming back. He would kill more. He would kill his choice now.

He picked the burnt ones from the table and threw them to the floor. Then he reorganised the figurines.

He remembered a last winter’s day when the schools had been open for a short period between the two major offensives of the war this far. Even a little boy had learned that there might be a new one any day. The girls in the school had always followed the guys picking on him as he was skinny and not either rough or dandy as the other boys were.

The worst had been the one nicknamed Aggy. She had always been on him because she was physically stronger than he was. She used to challenge him to a wrestling match in front of everyone else. And she always won. He couldn’t count the bruises he had gotten from her – or the laughs that had followed.

He picked the figurine into his hand and moved it to the candle-light. It was a nice figurine. He had spent a lot of time carving it. But now it would burn.

Slowly he brought it to the flame and watched it getting black first, then starting to smoke.

Suddenly it lightened and burned his fingers.

Herbert yelled in pain and instinctively let go of it. It hurt.

The figurine burnt slowly at the floor until it was consumed by the tiny flames.

*~*

An open town council was called to convene and everyone came. Shasta and Greenie opened it as the remaining village elders even though there were some complaints about it.

There was a spectacular row between Roa and the phantom. After the two had had enough all the others wished to make their personal views heard as well. It was a cacophony of lectures, analysis, accusations and counter-accusations, quotes and misquotes, accusations of misrepresenting and counter-arguments to them – as well as jokes and banter to lighten the mood.

And as everyone had a lot to say and a lot to correct on what others had said it became a tiring day to all. Kath was busy providing people with Mac’s cider without her wench all alone.

Finally it was decided that Macalaure and Aganzir should be brought forwards. Even if old Shasta tried to cool the feelings with calling the children to play nice the final debate was hot and fiery.

The votes came one by one keeping both neck to neck. Macalaure seemed to have been half a sleep – probably from drinking too many pints of his own cider – even if it was quite near he was going to be sent to the gallows. Suddenly he woke up.

“I need to intervene, you're lynching your ranger…”

“Gah, I still have no idea. Think, think, think...” Cailín mumbled. “… What did you say? Hmm, I suppose I should trust him.

“Crap. Cailin vote Agan...quick!” Brinn yelled in.

So it was decided that Aganzir would be the one. And they would burn her.

”I am confident Lommy is a wolf!” Aganzir protested while she was being taken. She was tied by Mac and the phantom. “Heck I'm sorry Mac”, she tried her last but Mac was not moved. Cailín and Legate had built a pyre to the square where Lommy and Brinn dragged her.

“Good riddance wolf!” Lommy yelled as they threw her on top of the pile “I will dance a river-dance to your evil memory when you show your real qualities!”.

As the village elders, Shasta and Greenie lit the pyre.

The flames soon consumed her body and her skin started to melt. From underneath it a thick and hairy fur was revealed.

“Ggrrrraaaaaaahhhh!!!!!!” she bellowed as the ropes snapped and she rose up burning all over. She managed to jump off the pyre and went after Lommy.

“Stop the beast, stop the beast!” Nilp shouted as Lommy tried to run away from the werewolf.

It was not needed. The beast fell down beside the old oak tree burning brightly. But the fire took to the tree as well.

“Quite a firework” McCaber said.

“Yeah bro, we should have these more often” Gwath replied.

*~*

Alive:

+ A Little Green, a fortune-teller - folklorist - herb-grower - unofficial therapist, advisor and midwife, most presumably a witch, the gammer (the eccentric mother of Lommy & Mac)
+ Shastanis Althreduin, astrologer/fortune teller, gaffer (Greenie's husband, father of Lommy & Mac)
+ Isabellkaya, a gammer who loves asparagus and throwing knives (Shasta's sister)

+ Thinlómien, a bird tamer, adult (married to Nilp, Macalaure's sister)
+ Nilpaurion Felagund, a house-bound sandwich-maker, adult (married to Lommy)
+ Eönwë, Rikae's unofficial helper-person, 22 (their son)
+ Kath, tavern owner, 20 (their daughter, Brinn's life partner)
+ Satansaloser 2005, Lommy's assistant, 17 (their daughter)

+ Macalaure, apple farmer, adult (married to Rikae, Lommy's brother)
+ Rikae, a lumberjack, adult (married to Macalaure, Roa's sister)
+ the phantom, sheep herder with Legate, 21 (their adopted son, Di's brother)
+ Diamond 18, dissolute, 11 (phantom's pre-teen littlesister)

+ Cailín, guinea pig breeder, adult (Nilp's sister)
+ Lhunardawen, healer's apprentice, 20 (Cailín's daughter, good twin of Durelin)
+ Durelin, poisoner 20 (Lhuna's evil twin, daughter of Cailín)

+ Roa_Aoife, school teacher, adult (mother of Legate, Brinn and Kit, wife of Nogrod, sister of Rikae)
+ Brinniel, Greenie's apprentice, 21 (Legate's sister and Kitanna's twin sister, Kath's life partner)
+ Legate of Amon Lanc, sheep herder with tp, 19 (brother of Brinn & Kit, Sally's boyfriend, Agan's ex-bf)

+ Lalaith, chocolate maker, adult (sister of Nerwen, mother of Aganzir, Volo's daughter)
+ The Ka, a dog whipper (a fatherless and ageless little child of Lalaith)

+ Mormegil, adult (son of Volo, husband of Celuien, father of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Celuien, a candle maker, adult (wife of morm, mother of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Gwathagor, a highwayman, 20 (McCaber's big brother)
+ McCaber, a henchman, 18 (Gwath's little brother, dates Aganzir)

The dead:
Eomer of the Rohirrim, adult (Cailín's husband, Lhuna's and Dury's father); An innocent beheaded by the werewolves on Night1
Nogrod, the judge, adult (Roa's husband, father of Legate, Brinn and Kit); An innocent torn in two by werewolves on Night1
Nerwen, the healer, adult (sister of Lalaith, Volo's daughter); An innocent nailed to the oak-tree on Day1.
Volo, the guy who knows everything about staying alive, the gaffer (Father of Nogrod, morm, Nerwen and Lalaith); The seer mutilated and eyes pulled off on Night2.
Kitanna, a tavern wench 21 (Legate's sister and Brinn's twin sister); An innocent ripped into pieces and thrown into the well on Night2.
Aganzir, the little match girl, 15 (Lalaith's daughter, dates McCaber); A werewolf burnt alive on Day2.

Night3 has begun.

You know what to do… those who can do something… G’night everyone else!

Nogrod

06-06-2008, 05:00 PM

Old nanny’s words were sadly wrong for the fresh dreams didn’t bring relivement but only more pain. The people in her dream had first killed one of the nightly killers and were in bloodthirsty trance of some kind ready to kill everything they thought evil. Enraged by that the nightly killers had killed yet more villagers an it would go on and on. She was sure of it.

If she didn’t stop it.

Edelfried woke up shivering. Her heart felt bruised and beaten. It was as well physical pain. She felt she would throw up at any minute.

There was only one thing she could do. She should visit aunt Clennan.

She wasn’t actually allowed outside the castle on her own but this wasn’t the first time she managed to get there. There were a few good ways to do it and the easiest was when old Bellengaard was on duty at the gate. He would just let her go if she talked nicely and smiled: and promised to get him some honeycakes and a small bottle of sage- flavoured spirit from her aunt. That had always worked and it did so this morning as well.

“Oh! little miss Edelfried it is! How nice to see you for a long time!” Aunt Clennan came rushing through her messy and dimly lit room to greet the girl.

“Now what is it my dear? You look so pale and frightened! Now sit down and tell your auntie all that shadows your pure mind!” While speaking she had already pulled a chair for Edelfried, set her down and sat herself next to her. “Now, what is it?”

Edelfried told her all. It took some time but finally she got it done. Her aunt listened patiently although Edelfried could see her eyebrows wrinkling every once in a while. Her ever-familiar smile had died out already in the beginning and now she looked solemn and thoughtful. Edelfried’s eyes were nailed on her but the silence lasted for a while. Then aunt Clennan finally seemed to come back to the here and now and stroke her hair in saddened empathy.

“I would never had wished you to get this gift my little…” she whispered silently. “Your life will change now. I can be of help and show the door but you must walk the path yourself.”

“What is it aunt Clennan?” Edelfried asked now totally horrified. The tone of the voice of her aunt had made her even more anguished.

“It’s a long story… but sadly you will have to hear it.”

*~*

Macalaure was sitting, leaning to a house and ready for everything. He had a job to do and no werewolf would attack his protégé this Night. But he was weary at the same time being himself the target tonight.

He was watching at his blade when he finally heard the oncoming creeping steps. There they come then… I’ll sell my blood with a price… and they won’t enter this house if it’s up to me.

The shapes of the four werewolves emerged from the darkness coming slowly towards him. Macalaure stood up and pointed his blade at them.

“This is the ranger’s blade enchanted by the Good Wizard! You shall not pass!”

He took a step towards the four shadowy creatures and swang his blade in the air. “Dare to even try!” He shouted at them hoping people would hear it.

“We have no business inside cider-maker. We’ve come to get you…” the biggest werewolf said in a slow voice. “Go get him!” he said pointing at the two werewolves at it’s left.

They leaped on Macalaure but he stood firm parrying left and right and dealing a blow to his attackers every now and then. There was blood all over as Mac had been hit a few times quite badly but he had also managed to deal a blow or two in as well.

“Hey, this is a tough one. Just give us a hand!” The other werewolf cursed between the strokes.

“Oh you amateurs… Let’s go kill him. We have another job to do this Night as well and everyone’s waking up to this noise.” the biggest one drowned and jumped in with the fourth one.

It was soon over then. The werewolves tore him into pieces. The first attackers were so mad because of their wounds and their loss of face that they could have continued slicing him into ever smaller pieces if the biggest one hadn’t stopped them.

“Now let’s get the girl, fast!” he hissed and they disappeared to the night.

The village had heard the fight but they stayed indoors until the morning broke for fear of going outside were the werewolves roamed. But as soon as the first rays of sun came forwards they rushed out to see what had happened.

“Nooooo!” cried Di, “Daad!” she rushed to the pile of pieces of human flesh and organs where her father’s sword lied.

“It can’t be!” cried Rikae. “My husband! My love!”

The phantom looked around in ever growing anger and finally spotted a face he was looking for. “If you’re behind this aunt Roa I will deal with you personally!”

But all that was intervened with another cry. It was Lalaith.

“Who could have done this to a little ageless girlie barely of any age? Where is the justice? Why?”

The villagers rushed towards her lamentations only to find The Ka pierced with a spear by the front door of Lalaith’s house. The spear had been stuck to the ground and The Ka still held her favourite doll in her hand.

*~*

Alive:

+ A Little Green, a fortune-teller - folklorist - herb-grower - unofficial therapist, advisor and midwife, most presumably a witch, the gammer (the eccentric mother of Lommy & Mac)
+ Shastanis Althreduin, astrologer/fortune teller, gaffer (Greenie's husband, father of Lommy & Mac)
+ Isabellkaya, a gammer who loves asparagus and throwing knives (Shasta's sister)

+ Thinlómien, a bird tamer, adult (married to Nilp, Macalaure's sister)
+ Nilpaurion Felagund, a house-bound sandwich-maker, adult (married to Lommy)
+ Eönwë, Rikae's unofficial helper-person, 22 (their son)
+ Kath, tavern owner, 20 (their daughter, Brinn's life partner)
+ Satansaloser 2005, Lommy's assistant, 17 (their daughter)

+ Rikae, a lumberjack, adult (married to Macalaure, Roa's sister)
+ the phantom, sheep herder with Legate, 21 (their adopted son, Di's brother)
+ Diamond 18, dissolute, 11 (phantom's pre-teen littlesister)

+ Cailín, guinea pig breeder, adult (Nilp's sister)
+ Lhunardawen, healer's apprentice, 20 (Cailín's daughter, good twin of Durelin)
+ Durelin, poisoner 20 (Lhuna's evil twin, daughter of Cailín)

+ Roa_Aoife, school teacher, adult (mother of Legate, Brinn and Kit, wife of Nogrod, sister of Rikae)
+ Brinniel, Greenie's apprentice, 21 (Legate's sister and Kitanna's twin sister, Kath's life partner)
+ Legate of Amon Lanc, sheep herder with tp, 19 (brother of Brinn & Kit, Sally's boyfriend, Agan's ex-bf)

+ Lalaith, chocolate maker, adult (sister of Nerwen, mother of Aganzir, Volo's daughter)

+ Mormegil, adult (son of Volo, husband of Celuien, father of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Celuien, a candle maker, adult (wife of morm, mother of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Gwathagor, a highwayman, 20 (McCaber's big brother)
+ McCaber, a henchman, 18 (Gwath's little brother, dates Aganzir)

The dead:
Eomer of the Rohirrim, adult (Cailín's husband, Lhuna's and Dury's father); An innocent beheaded by the werewolves on Night1
Nogrod, the judge, adult (Roa's husband, father of Legate, Brinn and Kit); An innocent torn in two by werewolves on Night1
Nerwen, the healer, adult (sister of Lalaith, Volo's daughter); An innocent nailed to the oak-tree on Day1.
Volo, the guy who knows everything about staying alive, the gaffer (Father of Nogrod, morm, Nerwen and Lalaith); The seer mutilated and eyes pulled off on Night2.
Kitanna, a tavern wench 21 (Legate's sister and Brinn's twin sister); An innocent ripped into pieces and thrown into the well on Night2.
Aganzir, the little match girl, 15 (Lalaith's daughter, dates McCaber); A werewolf burnt alive on Day2.
Macalaure, apple farmer, adult (married to Rikae, Lommy's brother); The ranger overpowered by four werewolves in a fight and torn to pieces on Night3.
The Ka, a dog whipper (a fatherless and ageless little child of Lalaith); An innocent impaled to a spear her doll in her hand on Night3.

Day3 begins.

The forum is open again.

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 05:16 PM

Crud crud crud! Mac....:( And Ka....wait a sec....Ka? What the devil? *goes to look at Ka's posts, for there's obviously something there*

Oh, and before I go (going to drive home and charge laptop so I can go postal....erm, post happy hehe) I'm going to be the first to post the voting record. Ha!

Roa-->Phantom at 2:02am
Lhuna-->Mac at 5:41am
Nilp-->Cabbie at 9:17am
Gwath-->Lallie at 10:47am
Morm-->Brinn at 2:26pm
Sally-->Cabbie at 4:06pm
Cellie-->Cailin at 4:34pm
Rikae-->Legate at 4:55pm
Shasta-->Legate at 4:58pm
Mac-->Agan at 5:01pm
Kath-->Mac at 5:23pm
Di-->Mac at 5:47pm
Brinn-->Agan at 5:49pm
Durie-->Lommie at 5:50pm
Lommie-->Agan at 5:50pm
Izzy-->Roa at 5:54pm
Phantom-->Agan at 5:55pm
Ka-->Mac at 5:55pm
Cabbie-->Legate at 5:55pm
Greenie-->Phantom at 5:55pm
Agan-->Mac at 5:57pm
Legate-->Agan at 5:58pm
Cailin-->Agan at 6:00pm
No votes: Eon, Lallie

Notes: Times are GMT-5, which puts DL at 6pm my time. I'm too lazy to change the times over today, sorry. As before, innocents and wolves.

Enjoy! See you all in a couple hours or so! :)

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 05:18 PM

I'm not sure how unexpected Mac's death was, but Ka? Another "safe" kill? The first close member of my own family is gone now... Mac was my son.

However, the little match girl is also gone. I'd bought matches from her many a time, not knowing the evil that lurked inside her. Of course, I find it hard to believe that someone as close to her as her own swain could have no inkling of her foul nature. I noticed yesterday at the burning that the one comment McCaber made was something about fireworks; hardly the reaction of a heartsick lover. This makes me wonder about you, young henchman; rest assured, I shall have my eye on you today.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-06-2008, 05:19 PM

Ai, vai.

Well, not much of a surprise, is it. The reason for Mac's murder is obvious, he even actually stated he is the Ranger yesterDay, and the Wolves, unlike us, knew that he is not lying (unless he were a Hunter pretending to be a Ranger etc... but that wasn't even probable given the timing and situation he was in when he posted - no time to think of complicated covers - and anyway, it was a Gifted down, the Wolves would've gone after him in any case, I would say). He probably could not protect himself, so he was done for. In fact (to warm up my own soup a little bit), I thought Mac is a Gifted of the way he acted towards me, already on Day 1. Well, if he was it already back then (oh, but he must have been, right? Yes, of course). Anyway... do you notice that the "pile" of the dead (well, a good expression indeed) is getting quite thick? It's the number of kills per night. Now even the Ranger is missing, which means even more...

Now however, what can possibly someone lead to kill a child? Apart from that being really unspeakable, I think this deserves deeper investigation. I shall try to look to it, however not sure how much I can put into it, given the late hour here, I think I am probably rather going to sleep in a short while, so I will probably wait a moment if someone else posts and save the work for the morning when I am more fresh.

EDIT: x-ed with these two

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 05:26 PM

And I was just starting to wonder if THE Ka was a wolf after all... :rolleyes:

I'm rather happy to know that Agan was indeed a wolf. Her last words almost convinced me I had been wrong about her... I will look at Day1's now and go with the assumption that wolves knew their fellows and they didn't want to lynch them in order to get an extra kill, so basically, I'm going to have a look at who could have been protecting Agan from the lynch. This might be useless as we can't assume the wolves know one another - actually, if I had to bet, I'd say they don't know one another, or at least didn't know on Day1 - but nevertheless something interesting may turn up. Besides the Ew definitely know qho the wolves are/were, but s/he might just be too sneaky to catch by some trivial thing like that. But anyway, like I said, I'm going to have a look at the voting.

I will also see through Agan's accusations against me some time toDay and comment if there's something that needs clarifying (ie something that is not a downright blantant lie one can easily dismiss), even though she's dead and a wolf. I'd prefer to have those things cleared.

What I will be doing toDay is concentrating on as many people as I can. For good or bad, I mostly thought about Agan and tp yesterDay... :rolleyes:

edit: xed with Shasta and Legate

Rikae

06-06-2008, 05:33 PM

Sally, what do you mean there must be something in THE Ka's posts? That's hardly an obvious conclusion, considering that there was nothing in Volo's or Kitanna's.

If I was a wolf, last night I would be thinking about not killing someone Mac was protecting, above anything else.

Poor Mac... I always hate to see him go. :( Why on earth does everyone find him suspicious lately when he's good, anyway?

Brinniel

06-06-2008, 05:34 PM

Okay, those last moments of yesterDay were insane. I was certainly not expecting Mac to come out of nowhere and reveal he was a ranger...and afterwards with all the cross-posting I feared he would actually be lynched. How very lucky it was for that not to happen...and especially the fact that Aganzir indeed turned out to be a wolf. I admit I did gloat a bit as soon as I found out...some of my first Day suspicions have turned out to be wrong in the past...and towards the last minute or so I was starting to doubt myself, but I'm glad to find out that I was right to suspect her.

Mac's death is really no surprise...I think all of us saw it coming once he revealed. As for Ka....it's odd, but when I was thinking about who else might be killed during the Night, she's the first one who popped into my head. She just seemed pretty innocent and overlooked by most...and I think that's why she was killed.

Now onto toDay:

I have to keep reminding myself we can't suspect or disregard someone as a wolf based on connections with Aganzir. It's an old habit that we're used to...but we can still find more wolves without connections. Now if someone wanted to find the EW...now you have a connection. Who would pick Aganzir? And how would that EW act towards her during the Days?

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 05:37 PM

Now if someone wanted to find the EW...now you have a connection. Who would pick Aganzir? And how would that EW act towards her during the Days?I might think more about this later, but my short answer would be: anyone who has seen her play as a wolf or played with her when she's a wolf. Or someone who wanted to have a shot at the dark with someone s/he had never played with but who had apparently played in several games.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 05:39 PM

In fact (to warm up my own soup a little bit), I thought Mac is a Gifted of the way he acted towards me, already on Day 1.
Figured he knew you were a wolf, did ya?

Now even the Ranger is missing, which means even more...
Um, huh? There will be a new ranger toNight. Why are you misleading people, Legate?

Rikae

06-06-2008, 05:40 PM

"Warm up my own soup" is an interesting turn of phrase in these circumstances, too. Legate, did you make "Mac & Pork" of my late husband?

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 05:42 PM

McCaber, Day 1

#81 - First post of the game. Minor IC entrance. Says Phantom looks innocent, and Sally and Cailin are slightly worrying. Promises to be back later with more info.

#157 - Second post of the game. Says he would rather keep Phantom around, but flip-flops on his opinion, saying "I am keeping him under suspicion". Thinks Aganzir to be innocent. Laments flying under the radar.

#175 - Votes Nerwen. No explanation.

McCaber, Day 2

#452 - Wants Phantom and Roa to sort out their differences by themselves. Doesn't like Legate or Cailin.

#509 - Isn't sure who to vote. Replies to Phantom's wish to vote Gwath, saying that it wouldn't be hard to shoot him past everyone else in the running to be lynched.

#523 - Votes Legate. Again, no explanation.

------------------------------------------

Well, that certainly didn't take long!

All I can say for McCaber is:

1. Flipflopped on his opinion of Phantom between his first and second posts.
2. Believed Aganzir to be innocent.
3. Is suspicious of Cailin throughout, but swaps Sally for Legate for some reason.
4. Doesn't explain his votes.

If ever there was a submarine... :rolleyes:

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 05:45 PM

Of course, since we don't know when Aganzir became a wolf, she might have indeed been innocent Day 1. :rolleyes:

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 05:46 PM

Sally, what do you mean there must be something in THE Ka's posts? That's hardly an obvious conclusion, considering that there was nothing in Volo's or Kitanna's.

I was looking at them last night and saw something, but was too tired to write it down. Now let me get to it! :p

My condolences, by the way, dear.

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 05:50 PM

Legate, did you make "Mac & Pork" of my late husband?:D

When my dear brother (may he rest in peace, he was a valiant man) did that revelation of his, my first reaction was that "he's bluffing! he's the EW! ...or is he the GW?" Okay, now I forgot why I'm writing this. Great. :rolleyes: Erm... Could the evil guys have thought this way? Could it have affected their choices? I mean, yesterDay someone speculated (I think...?) that the evil team might not want to kill all the gifteds as they can kill the known gifteds after the wizard duel. But if the evil guys thought Mac might be ranger or GW, they might wanted to be more inclined to send the wolves to kill him/check his identity. Hmm... this might actually be rather irrelevant, but it just crossed my mind.

I'm really not getting anything done and my brain's not working properly. Maybe I should go to sleep. It's soon 3am here... but I really would like to see that Day1 voting... maybe I will.

Now I'm wondering if I had any more reason to do this post than express my amusement at Rikae's words... :rolleyes:

edit: xed with everybody after Rikae

Brinniel

06-06-2008, 05:52 PM

Of course, since we don't know when Aganzir became a wolf, she might have indeed been innocent Day 1.
Of course, that is entirely possible. Though I find it more likely she was a wolf from the beginning...I suspected her from the same reasons as Day 1, and I don't think her behaviour changed at all between the two Days. And would the EW bother scrying her after she got fairly close to getting lynched on Day 1?

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-06-2008, 05:52 PM

Um, huh? There will be a new ranger toNight. Why are you misleading people, Legate?
I don't know how it works, but I am not quite sure if the Ranger will be immediately up to the task? I mean, when Mac was killed, someone took his place immediately already the same night? Oh yes, probably yes. Anyway, I did not think about it, it's really late here, I will not post anymore and go to sleep. I can't think of much anyway.

"Warm up my own soup" is an interesting turn of phrase in these circumstances, too. Legate, did you make "Mac & Pork" of my late husband?
Blah, blah, blah. I am getting sleepy, which is especially dangerous, as your chattiness irritates me to the point that you may as well drive me to go after you, which is not a thing I like to do, but whatever. For example:

If I was a wolf, last night I would be thinking about not killing someone Mac was protecting, above anything else.

Poor Mac... I always hate to see him go. :( Why on earth does everyone find him suspicious lately when he's good, anyway?

I can imagine this whole quote being spoken by you wolf, how dare you, your poor Mac, and I even know it from personal experience when you were a wolf with me and you were happy to make a Mac&pork of him yourself and then laugh at him when he was dead (well, we all do that, but whatever). Anyway, it wasn't even - or not directly at least - the problem that he was suspected, but that he was killed. I know it was connected, but still.

Anyway, I see I may be as well starting to talk nonsense, so I better go to sleep now. Good night all.

Gwathagor

06-06-2008, 05:56 PM

Hey everyone. I'm going to try to be more involved toDay (as it's now the weekend and I'm not working as much). It's been difficult to form well-developed opinions of everyone because I haven't been around enough during the Day. I apologize.

I have to say, Rikae, you were awful quick there to jump on Legate and cast his remark regarding the Ranger in the most negative light possible. It seems highly unlikely that Legate could accomplish anything by intentionally trying to "mislead" people on such a basic point of DW rules. Anybody who is familiar with the rules would simply view the comment as a mistake and move on.

Crossed with all since Shastanis

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-06-2008, 05:57 PM

When my dear brother (may he rest in peace, he was a valiant man) did that revelation of his, my first reaction was that "he's bluffing! he's the EW! ...or is he the GW?" Okay, now I forgot why I'm writing this. Great. :rolleyes: Erm... Could the evil guys have thought this way? Could it have affected their choices? I mean, yesterDay someone speculated (I think...?) that the evil team might not want to kill all the gifteds as they can kill the known gifteds after the wizard duel. But if the evil guys thought Mac might be ranger or GW, they might wanted to be more inclined to send the wolves to kill him/check his identity. Hmm... this might actually be rather irrelevant, but it just crossed my mind.
I think, with all the power which is left to my brain, that I can see what you are going to. But probably sometimes the simpest choice is the best, so they just, like I said, saw Mac yesterDay, thought "hey, he revealed" (and they thought so rightfully) and said "let's kill him". And that was it.

Now I'm wondering if I had any more reason to do this post than express my amusement at Rikae's words... :rolleyes:
I see there was more of us stemming from the same point. :rolleyes:

Anyway. Task for those who are awake: try to find out what was up with Ka so that she was killed.

Otherwise, really good night (I hope).

Brinniel

06-06-2008, 05:58 PM

Rikae

06-06-2008, 05:58 PM

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 05:58 PM

I have to say, Rikae, you were awful quick there to jump on Legate and cast his remark regarding the Ranger in the most negative light possible. It seems highly unlikely that Legate could accomplish anything by intentionally trying to "mislead" people on such a basic point of DW rules. Anybody who is familiar with the rules would simply view the comment as a mistake and move on.I must agree with this; however, there's something wrong with Legate's last post as well. And now I'm really off to check Day1 voting... almost. :rolleyes::D

edit: xed with the flood after Gwath's post

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-06-2008, 05:59 PM

I have to say, Rikae, you were awful quick there to jump on Legate and cast his remark regarding the Ranger in the most negative light possible. It seems highly unlikely that Legate could accomplish anything by intentionally trying to "mislead" people on such a basic point of DW rules. Anybody who is familiar with the rules would simply view the comment as a mistake and move on.

Speaking of that, I don't see what she could base on it. What I said could demoralize people at most, but otherwise, I think it will have no value for determining what I am. Provocation or what?

Anyway, for the third time, and third should be the last, good night. :rolleyes:

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 06:02 PM

But why would they kill THE Ka for something she said? The seer, after all, was dead and the new seer not made yet until last night. Why would they waste their kill on somebody who might be the Hunter? It doesn't make any sense. Really, I think anybody looking for reasons behind THE Ka's death must be a wolf looking for an easy scapegoat... or at least, rather insulting to the wolves!Whaat? That insult-part was utterly incomprehensible to me. Whether Rikae's logic (or sense of humour?) is weird or I'm too tired, I don't know...

Anyway, I think THE Ka was probably killed for either not being probably protected and/or for appearing ordo-like (ie not hunter-like).

edit: xed with Legate who seems as unable to go to sleep as I am to go to check Day1 votes... :p

Brinniel

06-06-2008, 06:04 PM

I agree with Rikae. I highly doubt Ka was killed based on something she said. She was probably killed because she was overlooked by most other players.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 06:04 PM

I don't know how it works, but I am not quite sure if the Ranger will be immediately up to the task? I mean, when Mac was killed, someone took his place immediately already the same night? Oh yes, probably yes. Anyway, I did not think about it, it's really late here, I will not post anymore and go to sleep. I can't think of much anyway.

I believe it goes like this - the GW gets to make a new gifted to replace a killed one on the next night (since the wolf kill comes last in the nightly events). Therefore, the new seer would have been made last night (or possibly a new ranger instead), and a new ranger toNight, unless more gifteds get killed, that is. The gifted actions come after the wizard scry, so the new gifteds get to do their stuff on the first night (just like the new wolf last night got to kill.)

Blah, blah, blah. I am getting sleepy, which is especially dangerous, as your chattiness irritates me to the point that you may as well drive me to go after you, which is not a thing I like to do, but whatever.
I'm not scared of you. :p

I can imagine this whole quote being spoken by you wolf, how dare you, your poor Mac, and I even know it from personal experience when you were a wolf with me and you were happy to make a Mac&pork of him yourself and then laugh at him when he was dead (well, we all do that, but whatever). Anyway, it wasn't even - or not directly at least - the problem that he was suspected, but that he was killed. I know it was connected, but still.

Now, I resent that. I didn't laugh at him. Still, WW is WW and I can't make compromises because of my personal feelings about somebody.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 06:08 PM

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 06:13 PM

I agree with Rikae. I highly doubt Ka was killed based on something she said. She was probably killed because she was overlooked by most other players.

I have to agree too. Like I said earlier, I think Ka was a relatively safe kill for the wolves. However, there's nothing to be gained by not looking into her death, either, is there?

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 06:15 PM

Also, I really would like to know why people are always so quick to lynch Macalaure early on lately. Is it because of his long streak of being a wolf? I don't understand it, because he really did not look the least bit evil to me yesterDay, or the previous time this happened, either (I can't remember which game). And yes, he wouldn't have been revealed as the Ranger and probably wouldn't have been killed if he hadn't almost been lynched first.Dear sister-in-law, I can understand your annoyance at this. As for myself, I (usually ;)) like to keep him around for a bit longer (except last game I played with him, maybe I should shut up :D) as well as I enjoy playing with him. I don't think he was particularily suspicious this time (although not particularily innocentish either) and I'm inclined to believe that some people partly voted him because they were afraid he would be the EW. To be honest, I would not have been surprised if he had truned out to be a wizard. Anyway, I'm not sure if this discussion is actually of much use - not at least right now, maybe in the post-game discussions - at least it's not very wise of me to participate in it as it's (surprise surprise) distracting me from doing what I have been about to do for almost for an hour now... :rolleyes:

edit: xed with Shasta

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 06:17 PM

Since Lommy can't keep on task... (:p)

Voting Record, Day 1

mormegil: ++Brinniel (Brinniel 1)
Sally: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 1)
Gwathagor: ++Sally (Brinniel 1, tp 1, Sally 1)
Kitanna: ++morm (Brinniel 1, tp 1, Sally 1, morm 1)
Nerwen: ++Cailin (Brinniel 1, tp 1, Sally 1, morm 1, Cailin 1)
Roa: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 1, Cailin 1)
Celuien: ++Izzy (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 1, Cailin 1, Izzy 1)
Rikae: ++morm (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1)
Izzy: ++Roa (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1)
Shasta: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 3, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1)
Eonwe: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1)
Cailin: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 1)
The Ka: ++Celuien (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 1, Celuien 1)
Greenie: ++Gwathagor (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 1, Celuien 1, Gwath 1)
McCaber: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 2, Celuien 1, Gwath 1)
Macalaure: ++Legate (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 2, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1)
Lalaith: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 3, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1)
Durelin: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 4, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 4, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 1)
Diamond: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 1)
Volo: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 2)
Brinniel: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 3)
Legate: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 4)
Aganzir: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 6, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 4)

Did not vote: Nilpaurion, Lhuna, Kath, the phantom

Rikae

06-06-2008, 06:18 PM

I have to agree too. Like I said earlier, I think Ka was a relatively safe kill for the wolves. However, there's nothing to be gained by not looking into her death, either, is there?
Well, I wanted to point out that it looked like Sally was preparing to frame somebody on shaky grounds. It raised my eyebrow, anyway.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 06:21 PM

Gwathagor

06-06-2008, 06:31 PM

I'm interested to see what happens in toDay's installment of the Roa/phantom feud. I haven't been able to get much out of their arguments, but I have noticed that while tp is easier to like because he's funny, he also seems to take the goodwill of the village for granted. I feel like his posts require us to take a lot of things on faith. No, I can't think of any examples, that's just the impression I get. I'll go read through yesterDay and see if I can find something a little more concrete than my feelings to back this up, though.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 06:35 PM

I suggest we DON'T focus on Roa or tp. No wizard in her right mind would scry either of them, anyway.

Gwathagor

06-06-2008, 06:38 PM

Yeah, well, I looked back through and I can't find whatever it was that gave me that impression, so...never mind. :rolleyes: You're probably right about those two anyway.

mormegil

06-06-2008, 06:41 PM

So if I understand correctly we have 4 wolves and 1 EW. How many good guys? A GW, seer? (I assume a new one was selected), no ranger and a hunter?

The problem with THE Ka and claiming her a safe kill is there are many safe kills...I would actually be one too based on my activity up to this point:rolleyes:. Sorry about that.

I think it is important to pay attention to Rikae and Legate as they are both acting rather oddly. If any of them are acting 'normal' it would be Rikae as she is fairly rash and can be a bit abrasive at times...but Legate, that man must be very tired or something major is up with him.

Honestly, I've only skimmed most of the posts but amd caught up for this day's of posting. I am terribly sorry about this.

Gwathagor

06-06-2008, 06:41 PM

Actually, I'm curious now that I think about it: why don't you think we should consider Roa and tp today? Too much attention unhealthy for them? Or what?

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 06:42 PM

My sincerest apologies, but this is a... vote summary, of sorts.

So, Day1 voting in relation to the fact that Aganzir was a Nasty Werewolf:

1. morm -> Brinn
2. sally -> phantom
3. Gwath -> sally
4. Kitanna -> morm
5. Nerwen -> Cailín
6. Roa -> phantom 2
7. Celuien -> Isabell
8. Rikae -> morm 2
9. Isabell -> Roa
10. Shasta -> phantom 3
11. Eönwë -> phantom 4
12. Cailín -> Nerwen
13. Ka -> Celuien
14. Greenie -> Gwath
15. McCaber -> Nerwen 2
16. Mac -> Legate
17. Lalaith -> Nerwen 3
18. Durelin -> Nerwen 4

19. Lommy -> Agan
Here starts the Agan-wagon...

20. Di -> Nerwen 5
She's saving tp, yes, but she's also kind of saving Aganzir who a couple of people have considered voting... Although, the threat of Agan's lynch was quite small still at this phase and it's quite obvious she's saving tp, so I'm really stretching here. But maybe it's still worth pointing out.

21. Volo -> Agan 2
No need to analyse the seer's votes...

22. Brinn -> Aganzir 3
If the wolves wanted not to lynch one another and were aware of one another's identities, Brinn looks very innocent...

23. Legate -> Aganzir 4
...and so does Legate, even though he kept flip-flopping on the subject.

24. Agan -> Nerwen 6
Well...

Did not vote even though was verifiably around: phantom.

Okay, there's little to make out of this. If the wolves knew one another's identities, it's unlikely that Brinn or Legate are wolves. The problem is that that's wrongly phrased: it's unlikely that they were wolves on Day1. :rolleyes: So nothing we can trust in here, although this makes me, nevertheless, feel a little better about them. Don't worry, fellow villagers, I'm still able to suspect them. ;)

To my disappointment, no one was really saving Agan, except she herself. So nothing new here either.

The phantom's no vote still puzzles me. You ghostly person, care to explain why did you choose not to vote and who would you have voted, if you had?

All in all, that analysis was pretty worthless. But it made even more convinced there's something wrong with the Nerwen-wagon... mainly looking at Lalaith, McCaber and Durelin here.

edit: xed with everybody after my last post

Thinlómien

06-06-2008, 06:48 PM

I suggest we DON'T focus on Roa or tp. No wizard in her right mind would scry either of them, anyway.Unless the wizard in question scried them on Night1... which is a plain obvious fact and makes me a little wary of you, Rikae. You accuse people of overlooking facts or miselading people yet what you do resembles the behaviour you criticise quite a lot... :rolleyes::)

I don't know what this might mean, but looking at the Day 1 record, Aganzir didn't have to vote Nerwen to save herself; Nerwen already had 5 votes to Aganzir's 4 before Aganzir voted. Is there another reason, maybe, that she voted Nerwen?
She's a wolf and Nerwen was going to die anyway. She couldn't think of a better vote and decided to jump on the wagon. Besides, if everybody who did not vote had turned up and voted her, she would have been lynched. So she was also kind of making sure, I'd say.

Anyway, friends and relatives, I'm going to sleep now. It's almost 4am here and I'm gradually getting more and more slow-witted (or slower-and-slower-witted? bah, this English is really killing me tonight). Aieeeeeeeee, it looks like sun's rising. :eek: I'd really better go. Good night or whatever time of the day you guys are having.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 06:48 PM

The phantom's no vote still puzzles me. You ghostly person, care to explain why did you choose not to vote and who would you have voted, if you had?

I don't have the exact post on hand, but I believe the Phantom said that he was going to vote for Nerwen, but was prepared to switch to Aganzir if necessary. If he explained, though, I don't recall.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 06:54 PM

Voting Record, Day 1

So, Day1 voting in relation to the fact that Aganzir was a Nasty Werewolf

Good lord I thought we had done with that. *averts eyes, makes sign of evil*

Also, I really would like to know why people are always so quick to lynch Macalaure early on lately.

For my part I really wanted to know what he was. Mission accomplished. :rolleyes:

Hmmmm I guess I'll post more later, I've come down with a headache and I just can't my usual entertaining effervescent self with one. :Merisu:

Oh, that's right, I had one thought lingering from yesterday. What the h is up with Aganzir's directions after she knew she was going to die? Like we're all going to rush to obey a Wolf? I'm beginning to think I'm not the only one on wax in this village.

And I don't see any evil in looking at Ka's posts, I mean, what, should we inspect our bums instead? No kill means entirely nothing... and it's not even proven yet that Volo and Kit were killed "for no reason," that's just an assumption, albeit a fairly logical one. Hey, I'm not up for the task of combing through Ka's posts, myself (ugh, I'm the resident lazy child and that's too much work) but if anyone else wants to, I don't see why they shouldn't.

I shall return.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 07:06 PM

If any of them are acting 'normal' it would be Rikae as she is fairly rash and can be a bit abrasive at times...

No I'm not. I am "less threatening".

I forbid you, Di, to look at THE Ka's posts. She and her family are just... not our sort of people. Might be a bad influence on you.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 07:11 PM

Unless the wizard in question scried them on Night1... which is a plain obvious fact and makes me a little wary of you, Rikae. You accuse people of overlooking facts or miselading people yet what you do resembles the behaviour you criticise quite a lot... :rolleyes::)
(I accidentally typed "quoth" above in the second brackets. Quoth the Penguin "Nevermore"...)
Anyway, nope. I am not misleading. Roa and tp would be bad scry choices even then - too likely to be unscried, dreamed or lynched. Too risky.

The Lommy[/B]] more and more slow-witted (or slower-and-slower-witted? bah, this English is really killing me tonight).
Either.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 07:12 PM

Same great flavor, less threatening.

(And now with triple-posting action!)

mormegil

06-06-2008, 07:30 PM

Lommy, the biggest problem I have with you analysis is that you have an assumption that, in my mind, is invalid. I don't think the EW would reveal the identity of the other wolves. It seems easier to have the wolves remain undected if they don't know each other.

Rikae is off the wall completely and I don't know what to make of it.

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-06-2008, 07:53 PM

I don't know what this might mean, but looking at the Day 1 record, Aganzir didn't have to vote Nerwen to save herself; Nerwen already had 5 votes to Aganzir's 4 before Aganzir voted. Is there another reason, maybe, that she voted Nerwen? (Shasta)As I said yesterDAY, it may be that Agan feared that some of those who didn't vote yet (me, Lhuna, Kath, tp) might show up and vote for her. We can safely rule out tp (since he has thought of voting for Nerwen himself) and myself (since I haven't showed up yet then.) So I believe Lhuna and Kath were innocent on DAY 1.

Le problem est a smart EW (or one who reads my posts) might use this information to this advantage . . . one of them, at least, could have been turned . . .

Gwathagor

06-06-2008, 08:08 PM

Lommy, the biggest problem I have with you analysis is that you have an assumption that, in my mind, is invalid. I don't think the EW would reveal the identity of the other wolves.

I agree. It seems more likely, as some have pointed out before, that the wolves were issued a short list of non-wolves to vote for, rather than risk leaking the identities of all the wolves to the GW by revealing the wolves' identities to each other. The pay-off (inter-wolf coordination) doesn't make the immense risk worthwhile.

Nogrod

06-06-2008, 08:12 PM

There is now a more specified ruling that makes the Nightly actions quite precise (it is written in the rules-section in the beginning of the thread).

If there are two kills during a Night the EW will need to state which is the order of those kills (kill#1 and kill#2) to ease any confusion or situations where the result could be argued to and fro based on different interpretations of the actions.

The wizards knew this during last Night (the new ruling was not needed last Night though :rolleyes:).

Also if / when the Wizards will duel and thence leave the game the same rule applies to the remaining wolf-pack if there are four or more of them eg. they have two kills.

Keep on having fun!

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-06-2008, 08:28 PM

Rikae looks a bit jumpy toDAY. Grief? Or something sinister?

I mean, insisting that villagers not check Ka's posts? Insisting that we look away from the Roa-Fantine row? And insisting that they couldn't possibly be scryable?

Are you trying to hide something? A fang perhaps, or a wand of yew?

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 08:29 PM

I forbid you, Di, to look at THE Ka's posts. She and her family are just... not our sort of people. Might be a bad influence on you.

Ai, Mommy, don't hit me.

But yes, yes indeed... and the fact that Aunt Roa married in that family (holds nose) explains soooo much. :rolleyes:

Speaking of which, where is Roa. And phantom (okay, I did read the discussion thread, but it's in GMT and I can't be bothered to convert). I so want to see them going at it again.

If any of them are acting 'normal' it would be Rikae as she is fairly rash and can be a bit abrasive at times...

(later)

Rikae is off the wall completely and I don't know what to make of it.

Hah, about face much?

mormegil

06-06-2008, 08:33 PM

Hah, about face much?

Ummm, did you happen to read the posts that this came after? Rikae was odd but a bit more normal than Legate up until she went off on that triple post monstrocity...grasp at straws much Di?:rolleyes:

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 08:45 PM

Because I can....Ka's posts. Basically just to see what she thought. That and I'd already summarized them, so may as well put my effort to good use. Mostly unimportant now, but still....there may be something....Analysis of other players (Di first, others probably in the morning/early afternoon my time) coming up as I get it done....

KA
#243 (6:53pm)
Random. Commenting on lack of posts. Mentions lists and how they help predict day outcomes and such. Talks about Phantom's no-vote, almost seems as if she's defending it. Asks GW to give us a replacement for Gaffer Volo, our beloved deceased Seer.

Okay, lesson to be learned, don't complain about how few posts there are. Next time you check in, you'll be swamped. Knowing who suspects whom (lists, for instance) is a good way to know how they may vote/act, but I also like to see how people just interact. Look at Roa's last vote, for instance. And yes, please, I hope we have a new Seer (don't know why we wouldn't, unless the GW is a sadist. If so, I nominate Di!)

#309 (12:33am)
Jokes about my mis-post (italicizing her name). Teases Di about her postal post about Agan, then says that Agan'll probably murder her in her sleep anyway. Compliments Phantom. Talks about Legate's vote, compares it to gifted Volo in a previous game. Says first day hesitation isn't a reason to lynch someone. Withholds judgement on Legate for now. Trusts Lommie. Says she would likely pick Agan as a wolf, but further on in the game when straits are more dire. Trusts Agan, wants Gwath to talk more. Says she doesn't trust Cellie due to contradictions. Questions why Volo was killed.

Love the Vista comment in this post by the way! :) True, indeed. *pummels Vista* Hmmmm. This is another “If I was ____, I'd ____”. I don't like these, even though I'm guilty of them occasionally myself. Doesn't matter now, but that's what caught my eye last night, so yeah. Cellie? Contradictions? Where? She's barely said anything. Bah. Ka, why did you have to DIE???????????????

#356 (9:07am)
Clarifies the game she mentioned to Legate (referring to the recent game with the she-wolf pack? I was in that game if so, and it was Volo's if I'm not mistaken. K. Done now.) Says Agan is varyingly evil depending on her role. Is glad Gwath spoke up about his....silence.... Thinks Volo kill was semi-random. Not enough experience with Roa or Phantom to comment.

Gwath has been really quiet. Then again, he's busy like a lot of the rest of us, so I've kind of overlooked it so far. I'm still not terribly worried.

#454 (5:06pm)
Agrees with Durie to ignore Phantom and Roa, likes bandwagons (to an extent) but not the ones available. Still finds Legate odd, but doesn't want to vote him yet. Tells Agan she likes being an ordo more than a gifted. Confused about her mum Lallie. “Think like a criminal” discussion with Mac. Says Lommie's hiding something, but she's not sure what it is.

Hmmmm. Again, if she wasn't dead, I'd wonder if that was wolf communication. Here's a crackpot theory for you. Could Ka have been unscried and then killed for knowing her fellows? Maybe the EW cut communication and Ka....well, why would she tell Agan she'd been unscried? Crap. My theory doesn't even make sense to me right now. Someone else can play with it.

#522 (5:55pm)
Says Legate's “strange behavior” is justified by his exams and such. Thinks the Day's votes will be to discover things, not based on suspicions. Didn't get much time to analyze, says she doesn't know why Cabbie is such a good lynch choice. Says Cailin is more reasonable today, doesn't know about Brinn. Says voting because someone is controversial is not good. Thinks Mac is hiding something. Votes Mac accordingly.

Well....Mac was hiding something alright....I've done the same thing *furtive glance at Morm and Agan, her dead ranger friends* so we understand. I think Cabbie's quite a good choice actually, and I'll show you why later. But he's quiet enough that....well, I don't want to procrastinate on him but at the same time I'd be amenable to leaving him alone for another day or two.

Overall, not a lot, but a few tidbits I found interesting. Okay, off to set up my analysis on Di. Back in a smidge!

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 08:46 PM

Oh, that's right, I had one thought lingering from yesterday. What the h is up with Aganzir's directions after she knew she was going to die? Like we're all going to rush to obey a Wolf? I'm beginning to think I'm not the only one on wax in this village.

Okay fine, if no one else is going to speculate on this, I will.

As I see it, Agan had one of three motivations:

Lead us to believe that she believes Lommy is the EW or a Wolf and was sacrificing her, much to her disgruntlement.

She wants to create the appearance thereof, and make us suspect an innocent Lommy, Legate, and Brinn.

She wants to create the appearance of the appearance thereof, thus protecting an evil Lommy, Legate, and Brinn from suspicion.

My conclusion: I am sad that I cannot think of a way to work "the appearance of the appearance of the appearance thereof" into a scenario.

Also, I am somewhat surprised that an innocent Lommy would be allowed to live today. Isn't she a clear choice for a wolf kill, considering Agan's death makes her seem so innocent? IF she is innocent. If she is not, it's all so convenient. It's also convenient if she was innocent but instead of being mauled, was scried and converted to evil, because she was going to look so innocent today, due to actual innocence that no longer applies! *jabs finger in the air triumphantly*

The words of the day, children, are "innocent" and "appearance." Thereof.

But then, I STILL suspect Lommy of Wizardry. She could have sacrificed Agan, and Agan could be none the wiser about her actual role, thus rendering Agan's comment moot. Despite what TP says about the folly of the EW sacrificing wolves, we've seen it done successfully in the past and I wouldn't put it past Lommy to be going by that model.

Oh the possibilities.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 08:50 PM

Ummm, did you happen to read the posts that this came after? Rikae was odd but a bit more normal than Legate up until she went off on that triple post monstrocity...grasp at straws much Di?:rolleyes:

I didn't see anything weird about her triple post besides a joking tone. Oh, slay me now if having fun is a lynchable offense.

Analysis of other players (Di first, others probably in the morning/early afternoon my time) coming up as I get it done....

w00t. I love being analyzed.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 08:56 PM

Almost forgot....

And yes, please, I hope we have a new Seer (don't know why we wouldn't, unless the GW is a sadist. If so, I nominate Di!

Gaasp! You've found me out! *clutches robes* Wouldn't that make me the Sort of Good Wizard? Or the Not Altogether Evil But Rather Naughty Wizard?

Edit: Whoo yeah, triple posting action! http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/69.gif

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 08:59 PM

*shakes head in mock exasperation* Yes, Di, my dear, yes it would. Now go play with a sharp object or something. ;) Cousin Sally's trying to bold her post about you and your silliness, and your grabbing at the hem of my robes isn't helping concentrate. Run along now. *whispers* Bother my brother or sister. They've been pretty dern quiet themselves.

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 09:01 PM

Okay fine, if no one else is going to speculate on this, I will.

As I see it, Agan had one of three motivations:

Lead us to believe that she believes Lommy is the EW or a Wolf and was sacrificing her, much to her disgruntlement.

She wants to create the appearance thereof, and make us suspect an innocent Lommy, Legate, and Brinn.

She wants to create the appearance of the appearance thereof, thus protecting an evil Lommy, Legate, and Brinn from suspicion.

My conclusion: I am sad that I cannot think of a way to work "the appearance of the appearance of the appearance thereof" into a scenario.

Also, I am somewhat surprised that an innocent Lommy would be allowed to live today. Isn't she a clear choice for a wolf kill, considering Agan's death makes her seem so innocent? IF she is innocent. If she is not, it's all so convenient. It's also convenient if she was innocent but instead of being mauled, was scried and converted to evil, because she was going to look so innocent today, due to actual innocence that no longer applies! *jabs finger in the air triumphantly*

The words of the day, children, are "innocent" and "appearance." Thereof.

But then, I STILL suspect Lommy of Wizardry. She could have sacrificed Agan, and Agan could be none the wiser about her actual role, thus rendering Agan's comment moot. Despite what TP says about the folly of the EW sacrificing wolves, we've seen it done successfully in the past and I wouldn't put it past Lommy to be going by that model.

Oh the possibilities.

Quick addition to this, Di. Remember people can be UNscried as well. That might account for a few things.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 09:02 PM

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-06-2008, 09:03 PM

Roa-->Phantom at 2:02am (tp - 1)
Lhuna-->Mac at 5:41am (tp - 1, Mac - 1)
Nilp-->Cabbie at 9:17am (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 1)
Gwath-->Lallie at 10:47am (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 1, Lal - 1)
Morm-->Brinn at 2:26pm (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 1, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1)
Sally-->Cabbie at 4:06pm (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1)
Cellie-->Cailin at 4:34pm (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1)
Rikae-->Legate at 4:55pm (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 1)
Shasta-->Legate at 4:58pm (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2)
Mac-->Agan at 5:01pm (tp - 1, Mac - 1, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 1)
Kath-->Mac at 5:23pm (tp - 1, Mac - 2, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 1)
Di-->Mac at 5:47pm (tp - 1, Mac - 3, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 1)
Brinn-->Agan at 5:49pm (tp - 1, Mac - 3, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 2)
Durie-->Lommie at 5:50pm (tp - 1, Mac - 3, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 2, Lommy - 1)
Lommie-->Agan at 5:50pm (tp - 1, Mac - 3, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 3, Lommy - 1)
Izzy-->Roa at 5:54pm (tp - 1, Mac - 3, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 3, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
Phantom-->Agan at 5:55pm (tp - 1, Mac - 3, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 4, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
Ka-->Mac at 5:55pm (tp - 1, Mac - 4, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 2, Agan - 4, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
Cabbie-->Legate at 5:55pm (tp - 1, Mac - 4, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 3, Agan - 4, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
Greenie-->Phantom at 5:55pm (tp - 2, Mac - 4, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 3, Agan - 4, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
Agan-->Mac at 5:57pm (tp - 2, Mac - 5, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 3, Agan - 4, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
**Mac declares Gift at 5:57pm
Legate-->Agan at 5:58pm (tp - 2, Mac - 5, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 3, Agan - 5, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
Cailin-->Agan at 6:00pm (tp - 2, Mac - 5, Cabbie - 2, Lal - 1, Brinn - 1, Cailín - 1, Legate - 3, Agan - 6, Lommy - 1, Roa - 1)
No votes: Eon, Lallie (Sally - heavily edited)There were two fatal bandwaggons yesterDAY: The Agan one and the Mac one. Obviously, the Mac waggon is more suspicious, unless the Wolves were ordered to go after Agan (and yesterDAY would be a good time to do that, since they Dark Side already has 4 Wolves - they can afford to sacrifice one, and replace it the following NIGHT.)

I'll sniff at the Mac bandwaggon first. Akamaru!

Rarf!

the phantom

06-06-2008, 09:03 PM

I only have a couple minutes right now. But I'll be back in a couple hours.

I've barely skimmed what's been posted so far, but it looks like Rikae and Legate have started a little something. Don't do that! I'm feeling you both as rather innocent right now.

But there is someone that, in my multiple rereadings yesterday, I started to really not like very much. I'm sort of excited because it's my first halfway strong guilty feeling that I've gotten. Oh, sure, I have been uneasy about some, like Shasta, who I have actually reversed my opinion about, but this time I actually feel good about it.

Nope. Not telling who yet.

And no, it's not Roa! :D

You'll find out when I finally get home on my computer and can copy and paste what I started writing about this person yesterday during my read-throughs.

See you in a couple hours. Gotta run.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 09:03 PM

and your grabbing at the hem of my robes isn't helping concentrate.

Your robes? I meant my robes.

*GASP*

Sally is a Wizard!

...
...

Though you have a point about your siblings' quietness.

Kath has (and always will) creep me out because I've seen her quietly bedazzle a village and get away (literally) with murder most fowl.

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 09:04 PM

Black robes. Bloody robes. EVIL ROBES OF DOOM!

:eek:

*shuttles Grampa Shasta out of the room* There, there, you haven't taken your pills, dearie. Go take them and get some rest. Go on now, enough of your foolishness. *shifty eyes*

(Hehe, I was hoping you'd be the first to respond to that. I always love it when fellow theater people go nuts. :p)

P.S. Yes, father, feel free. :)

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 09:06 PM

*shuttles Grampa Shasta out of the room* There, there, you haven't taken your pills, dearie. Go take them and get some rest. Go on now, enough of your foolishness. *shifty eyes*

(Hehe, I was hoping you'd be the first to respond to that. I always love it when fellow theater people go nuts. :p)

P.S. Yes, father, feel free. :)

SHE'S TRYING TO POISON ME. I WANT A LAWYER. AGE DISCRIMINATION! :mad:

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 09:09 PM

SHE'S TRYING TO POISON ME. I WANT A LAWYER. AGE DISCRIMINATION! :mad:

Memo to self. Get stronger pills for Grandpa. Erm....hi, everyone. How's it going? :rolleyes:

Okay, enough of this. I'm posting my Di post in five minutes, bolded or not.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 09:10 PM

Oh phantom, brother of mine, there you go with your "look at me! look at me!" posting. Fancy we'll all be crouching at our computers waiting to see who the lucky person is who gets to be in your spotlight, eh?

Mooooom, he's hogging the attention again!

By the by, this is the second time Legate's gotten into it a bit with another player. And the last person he got on the bad side of was... dun dun... the ranger. Not looking so good, cousin. (Though I do like it when people lock horns, I'm jus' sayin'.)

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 09:11 PM

Memo to self. Get stronger pills for Grandpa. Erm....hi, everyone. How's it going? :rolleyes:

Okay, enough of this. I'm posting my Di post in five minutes, bolded or not.

And I shall ignore your blatant attempt to hasten what inheritance you may get as a result of my death to go see what there is to see about Gwath.

*carefully doesn't take the pills*

Lhunardawen

06-06-2008, 09:13 PM

Checking in. Overwhelmed. Someone give me aspirin.

And I was thinking Mac can't be gifted because of what he said in reply to my third reason for suspecting him. I thought no gifted would say, "I might be a good wolf choice, but I could also be a good gifted choice." Wah.

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 09:16 PM

And I shall ignore your blatant attempt to hasten what inheritance you may get as a result of my death to go see what there is to see about Gwath.

*carefully doesn't take the pills*

But, Grandpa, they're your heart pills. Don't you remember, you've been taking them for years. Grandma Greenie, Auntie Izzy, help me tell him. He's got to take his pills.

Don't take those blue ones though. Those didn't come from me; I bet one of the wolves put them there. *GASP* IZZY'S A WOLF IZZY'S A WOLF! *flops*

EDIT: x'd with cousin Lhuna. Here, have one of these dear. It'll make you feel better. And don't worry, it's green, not blue. Won't hurt you a bit, I promise. *Gets Lhuna a pillow and some nice tea....unspecial tea too....*

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 09:17 PM

DI
#241 (6:33pm)
Jokes of family conspiracy. Asks Phantom about his no-vote. Comments about Day One arguments (agrees with Cailin, then says Cailin is evil because Nerwen was innocent.) Jokes about family ties again. Says if she was EW she would do a lot of the same things the EW is doing. Boasts she's only been lynched once.

Only lynched one, eh? Is this a challenge, dear cousin? However, I don't think she'd be this straightforward if she was the EW, even if she couldn't be lynched. Still, this sits wrong with me. And Cailin is evil because Nerwen isn't? Come up with something better please sweetie. I know you can....Cailin bothers me too for various reasons. I'll get to them, but not now....moving on....

#242 (6:38pm)
Urges others to post. Nothing of consequence.

#257 (10:05pm)
Teases Phantom about his no-vote again. Hypothesizes that Volo's death had something to do with his seership and Agan's role. Goes nuts and goes into bloody descriptions about killing Agan.

SADIST! Kudos on being right though, even if you were just kidding.

#268 (10:54pm)
Joking continuation of the seer dream discussion. Silly and fun, insightful and yet nothing.

#290 (12:05am)
Joking. Teases Phantom for being....well, for being Phantom.

#312 (12:40am)
Mentions Roa's behavior in a previous game and compares it to Phantom's current actions.

#404 (2:59pm)
Complains about the high post velocity. Says the Roa and Phantom argument is entertaining; wants to know their roles.

Told ya so. You can't have your posts and read them too, people. And I'd like to know what they are, but for now let's leave them alone and try to figure it out without, I dunno, KILLING them, okay? Goodie.

#410 (3:13pm)
Erm, yeah. Random stuff.

#414 (3:29pm)
Wonders about a previous Cailin post (now cleared up). Says she won't mind being lynched, but tells Cailin that lynching her right after Nerwen is a poor choice. Also says she's not all that innocent.

Hmmmm. Mehbe she's an ex-wolf? A stretch, I know, but that last “I'm not all that innocent” bit makes me think she's been scried, either into a fur coat or out of it. Or maybe she's just being silly.

#424 (3:50pm)
Says useful posts are no fun. Wants to argue/read arguments (like Roa and Phantom) and jokes that she'll make stuff up if it gets discussion going.

She's got to be kidding! Fortunately, I think she is. I hope....

#426 (3:58pm)
Says she'll keep a close eye on Shasta, as she finds him sneaky.

My grandpa is a nice man. Maybe he just needs a shave. *shifty eyes*

#443 (4:51pm)
Suspicion list. Suspicious: Shasta, Lommie, Kath, Mac, Rikae, Cailin, Lallie, Cabbie. Wants more from Cellie, Morm, Gwath, and others. Notes that people will change sides frequently and suggests we should look for wizards, as they're the only consistent players. Speaks up about wizard suspects (mostly Phantom and Rikae).

Heh, she says Phantom bribed Noggie with Husker crap to gain wizardship (that would be a DETERRENT, love....). I like her take on wizards. Since they don't change, they are the only people that are guaranteed to leave some sort of trail (not a trail I guess more than evidence after they're dead, i.e. Who they picked, why, etc.) and so maybe we should concentrate on the wizard (EW, at least) more heavily than we have been. Bah, this has been discussed to death. Moving on.

#450 (5:04pm)
Still likes reading arguments. Is happy to see Cellie talking, and especially that Cellie also finds Cailin wolfish.

Happy to see someone else on her side. Can't argue with that.

#458 (5:14pm)
Joking. Suspects Lommie.

#461 (5:18pm)
Joking with Durie.

#490 (5:41pm)
Confused about who to vote for. Silly.

#500 (5:47pm)
Votes for Mac. Jokes about getting spanked for voting her dad, but otherwise no commentary.

Six minutes between “no idea who to vote for” and “let's kill Mac”. Then again, I've done it before too, so I can't say a whole lot about it. Slightly worrisome, but she mentioned suspicion of him earlier so it didn't completely come out of nowhere.

#538 (6:00pm)
Comments again on post volume. Pulls a “whoops” about voting Mac.

Erm....oopsie? Again, happens to the best of us. I hope you got a good whipping though. ;)

Okay, so Di rubs me a bit the wrong way. Nothing screaming "lynch me, lynch me" but quite a few little things that make me hesitate to call her innocent. Definitely in the yellow area, bordering on orange. It's easy to hide fur behind fun.

Okay. A few points before I submit. One. I'm too lazy to bold (though I'll probably do it in a bit anyway). Two. I write too big; Di alone took up over three pages in my notebook, and that's just for day two! Three. I only had day two pages saved, so that's what I worked with. Sorry. Four. I'm flipping posting this.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 09:31 PM

Erm....oopsie? Again, happens to the best of us. I hope you got a good whipping though. ;)

Well since dear Daddy is dead (RIP) his ghost will have to rise up from the grave to do so. Actually I got a PM from him saying "Dear Diamond, I know your real name, I can find out where you live. I AM COMING FOR YOU."

:eek:

(Not really.)

I enjoyed your analysis of me very much, btw. I have no complaints.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 09:33 PM

Gwath, Day 1

#48 - First post. Amused at Roa and Phantom squabbling. Believes that the key to the game is tracking down the EW.

#73 - Believes Aganzir to be twisting his words. Votes for Sally without an explanation.

Gwath, Day 2

#277 - Quotes a post of Sally; partially explains his vote for her by saying she seemed too "sane". Thinks Eonwe's vote for Phantom is suspicious. Thinks Roa is suspicious for voting Phantom as well. Thinks Phantom is also suspicious for dominating the conversation. Wary of Diamond's reason for voting Nerwen, as well as her apparent neutrality. Raises an eyebrow at the number of random votes cast. Suspicious of Lalaith, based on her posting style.

#286 - Sort of, kind of, explains his vote for Sally.

#310 - Replies to Ka. Admits he's been quieter than usual. Won't be around for the deadline again, so must vote early.

#361 - Certain that either Roa or Phantom is a wolf, based on their argument.

#362 - Explains his vote for Sally a bit more, based on her posting style, but mentions that he believes her to be "back to normal".

#365 - Would like to vote Phantom or Roa, but doesn't. Gives Eonwe an extra day for being new. Thinks Sally to be acting more innocently. Votes Lalaith for much the same reason he voted Sally.

Gwath - Day 3

#562 - States intention to be more involved. Thinks Rikae quick to jump on Legate; sides with Legate.

#577 - Wants to see more of the feud between Roa and Phantom. Thinks it's possible that Phantom is being a bit arrogant.

#579 - Gives up his idea on Phantom quickly, once Rikae voices her displeasure. This makes me raise an eyebrow.

#581 - Suddenly wonders why Rikae is so eager to deflect attention from Roa and Phantom. The eyebrow goes back down, but not all the way.

#591 - Reiterates that the wolves probably don't know each other.

To sum up:

Gwath bothers me a bit, but not to the extent that Legate does. I'd put him as a 4 on the scale; leaning innocent.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 09:35 PM

But, Grandpa, they're your heart pills. Don't you remember, you've been taking them for years. Grandma Greenie, Auntie Izzy, help me tell him. He's got to take his pills.

Don't take those blue ones though. Those didn't come from me; I bet one of the wolves put them there. *GASP* IZZY'S A WOLF IZZY'S A WOLF! *flops*

EDIT: x'd with cousin Lhuna. Here, have one of these dear. It'll make you feel better. And don't worry, it's green, not blue. Won't hurt you a bit, I promise. *Gets Lhuna a pillow and some nice tea....unspecial tea too....*

I've never taken heart pills in my life, youngster. Don't think I don't know what you're up to. *waves walking stick*

satansaloser2005

06-06-2008, 09:36 PM

Well since dear Daddy is dead (RIP) his ghost will have to rise up from the grave to do so. Actually I got a PM from him saying "Dear Diamond, I know your real name, I can find out where you live. I AM COMING FOR YOU."

:eek:

(Not really.)

I enjoyed your analysis of me very much, btw. I have no complaints.

Haha. I'd totally do that, you know.

Okay, battery's dying. May be back tonight, may not. Depends. See you upon my return. And as always, post IN MODERATION :p while I'm gone.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 09:51 PM

Well, as far as I can see, there's only one reasonable conclusion to come to - Legate is a wolf. Sally's theory points to it, Diamond's theory points to it, and, hey, my theory points to it, too. Q.E.D.

There is one other thing becoming apparent - people who do analyses really need to put more of their own opinions into them (not just a one liner at the end) and distinguish between summary and commentary somehow. Otherwise, it's just annoying to read.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 09:53 PM

There is one other thing becoming apparent - people who do analyses really need to put more of their own opinions into them (not just a one liner at the end) and distinguish between summary and commentary somehow. Otherwise, it's just annoying to read.

Okay, noted.

Rikae

06-06-2008, 09:56 PM

Okay, noted.
The Legate part too, I hope.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 09:59 PM

The Legate part too, I hope.

And haven't I been saying I think Legate's probably furry? :p

Durelin

06-06-2008, 10:30 PM

Well, looks like I was pretty wrong. What a shock!

Of course, there's still really no telling what Lommy is, no guarantees. So there.

Checking in. Overwhelmed. Someone give me aspirin.

I might have something like that in my lab, sister dear... :p

I'll sniff at the Mac bandwaggon first. Akamaru!

Rarf!

There's no room for ninjas in this village on top of wizards and werewolves, Nilp!

So, people are talking about Legate. And Di. Di is my hero, so I am biased.

Legate has seemed to be jumpy, defensive, and frustrated quite a bit these 3 Days. As a Wolf, though, I seemed to recall him as slipping by unnoticed, playing things smoothly, avoiding arguments and playing nice. But my long-term memory is...very selective. And that was a good while ago, so many things could have changed. Now that he's under definite pressure (and after gaining 3 votes yesterDay), I definitely want to see his reactions.

I also definitely want to see some more action between him and Rikae. Who I agree is a bit different toDay. Something happen during the Night?

Anyway, speaking of Night...I need sleep.

Durelin

06-06-2008, 10:34 PM

Oh, btw - you guys are totally allowed to lynch me now. I made it into someone's sig. My existence here hath be fulfilled!

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 10:37 PM

Oh, btw - you guys are totally allowed to lynch me now. I made it into someone's sig. My existence here hath be fulfilled!

I wondered if you would notice. :p

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 10:38 PM

You have made it into two. Does that mean we can double lynch you?

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-06-2008, 10:40 PM

La Lhunatique - suspected Mac 320 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557623&postcount=320), 329 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557629&postcount=325), 347 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557659&postcount=347). Mac answered 346 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557658&postcount=346), 349 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557661&postcount=349).

La Khat - had the following conversation with Mac:
Kath, no offense intended, but are you sure your posts today are very helpful? It's a lot to read, but there's actually rather little new to learn from them... (Mac)
Now who said I was trying to be helpful to others? These are mostly for my benefit, if anyone else gets something from them then good but it's not necessary. Also, maybe there's not a lot new to be learned, indeed there won't be much as it is often a summary with me commenting where I find something to comment on, but then I suppose it's giving you some information about me. I am sorry that it's a lot to read, I find that myself. (Kath) Voted for him 465 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557792&postcount=465). Mac found: [ . . . ]Kath creepy, but she can wait another day, too.

La Diamante - thank Eru my daughter read my mind. I went insane sifting through her posts. You crazy, crazy woman. :p (Di, that is.) Read Sally's post 615 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=558087&postcount=615).

La Ka - is innocent. And dead.

La Loupe - is a villain. And dead.

So, of the three remaining persons who voted for Mac, only Lhuna had some sort of evidence to show. Kath didn't vote the DAY before, and Di voted for Nerwen for personal reasons. Hmmm . . . were they Wolves ordered to lie low on DAY 1, and then ordered to get Mac lynched on DAY 2? Agan, a known Wolf, did vote for Mac, too (although we could argue that she's just trying to save her pelt.)

More later, must eat lunch. (Perfectly ordinary meat sandwich.)

Isabellkya

06-06-2008, 10:42 PM

Sally, I think I'd prefer chucking a knife at my dear brother; than bother with blue pills. :P Or I could just trip him when he is walking down a flight of stairs.. or maybe kick the cane while he is hobbling along.

Also, I don't believe we have any ex-wolves among us. The numbers don't support it.
Night 1 - Three Wolves
Night 2 - Four Wolves (one scried.)
Day 3 - Four Wolves (Aganzir died, and one was scried - I believe the plot mentions Mac dying at the hand of four wolves.)

This is my "Im here post". :D

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 10:47 PM

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-06-2008, 10:49 PM

CRAZINESS!!! Spare me thy madness!!!!!

Must have blood blood blood blood blood . . .

Lynch me! LYNCH MEEEEE!!!!!!

÷÷Nilpau . . .

As you've noticed, I used the 'division' sign, not the 'plus' sign. ;)

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 10:50 PM

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-06-2008, 10:51 PM

This is Lhuna.

Apparently, Nilp wants us to divide him. That is actually worse than simply wanting to be lynched.

I wonder why we never thought that the division sign is more appropriate for making lynch votes.

Durelin

06-06-2008, 10:51 PM

Had to check one more time before shutting down...

You have made it into two. Does that mean we can double lynch you?

*Noice.*

If I make it into more I'll vote for myself.

Edit: Crossed with Nilp-fakeout, and Lhuna and Nilp morphing. Oh yeah, and Shasta posted.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 10:53 PM

I love Nilp's formatting. It's a thing of beauty. I'll fight against anyone who tries to lynch him, for just this reason.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 10:59 PM

By the by, a look at the posting counts surprised me. Shasta has the second most number of posts (behind, well do I even have to say?) yet I don't think he's garnered near the attention.

Hmmmm. I may have to break down and review his posts. Cheerful killer that he is.

the phantom

06-06-2008, 11:00 PM

I just walked in the door. First, I shall post my case.

Then, I will catch up on what everyone's said today.

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-06-2008, 11:01 PM

You chaps should be asking whether I want to be divided along Adam's line, or Alice's.

Of course, I can be divided by seven. (http://elenrod.livejournal.com/20690.html). </shameless self-promotion>

Okay, let me eat, before I really vote for myself.

P.S. <3 Dury and her shamelessly letting others promote her. Will you be my mistress? :D

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 11:13 PM

Lhunardawen

06-06-2008, 11:19 PM

A few thoughts:

~ Legate is the most likely recipient of my vote toDay. Been reading on some of yesterDay's posts (thanks to Nilp's handy-dandy chart! who knew he could actually be reliable?), but I'll come up with my reasons. Later.

~ sally, McCaber, Cailin, and Rikae are now in my suspicion list. Will also elaborate later. But for now:

sally because she's distracting.
McCaber for being a submarine
Cailin feels slippery. Mummy, this isn't the you I'm used to seeing.
Rikae...this is tough. I don't like to think that she's taking advantage of her marital connexion to the late Mac to parade the fact that she thought he was innocent and berating those who found him otherwise (which includes me, unfortunately), but that's the feeling I get. Maybe this is a widow's distress, but isn't it too much?

~ I'm currently entertaining the idea that Agan's lynching might be premeditated. I'm trying to work out how that might fit with Mac revealing his gift.

Anyway, I still think the phantom might be a wizard. There might be more to his 'threat' towards me yesterDay than meets the eye.

Lalaith

06-06-2008, 11:24 PM

So, I have two children dead, my dear little Ka as innocent in death as she was in life, and my daughter Aganzir revealed to have gone over to the side of evil. I come to the discussion for some counsel and solace, and I find people speaking of dividing bodies....enough, please! :rolleyes:

But back to business:
Lommy:
I mostly thought about Agan and tp yesterDay
Actually, you seemed to be thinking about Agan since Day One. Why? What was it that was suspicious about her?
I am finding Lommy rather different in this game and it worries me. At one point she said that either Roa or phantom must be evil, then she wastes time pondering the point that wolves wouldn't necessarily want to kill gifteds at night, just wait until after the duel. (Obviously not the case: when her gifteds are killed, the GW has to scry to replace them, rather than scry for EW and wolves, and that is clearly to the evil team's benefit. The shortlist for a gifted scry would be a different one to the shortlist for a search-the-baddie scry.) Anyway, what I'm really saying is that the Lommy I've played with (always, coincidentally, an innocent Lommy) is too smart to be saying stuff like this so it worries me.

Diamond's post 597 makes valid and helpful points. I agree that Brinn might have been a good person for the EW to turn, last Night - what about Cailin?

I would like to know - once the EW is dead, are the wolves told of each other's existence and permitted to communicate at night in conventional wolvish fashion?

Last DW game, I found it helpful to try to work out what night our various wolves were turned. Like I said, I think Aganzir was an original wolf.
That leaves two more original wolves.
Then one who was innocent on Day One but guilty yesterDay.
And today we will have a wolf posting who has been innocent up until now.
When analysing posts looking for guilt, it's worth bearing that in mind.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-06-2008, 11:31 PM

I would like to know - once the EW is dead, are the wolves told of each other's existence and permitted to communicate at night in conventional wolvish fashion?

Yes, they are. :) The rules say so, anyway.

I have to wonder, particularly... has anyone seen Cailin? I think I may go back and take a look at her (mostly to alleviate boredom).

Gwathagor

06-06-2008, 11:33 PM

This may or may not be helpful to anyone else besides myself. That's OK.:cool:

CAILIN
Post #51
Recommends we try to catch both WWs and EW. Suggests that the EW will try to scry those who the GW would not and those who are less “illustrious”, but then disregards this and all such theories as useless speculation. I believe her position on speculation does an about-face later on.

Post #58
States again that she imagines the EW would select wolves from those the GW would be unlikely to scry. Posts list of Likely Wolves. This is composed of Lalaith, Izzy, Aganzir (good call), Herself, Kitanna, Kath, Legate, Eonwe, Volo, Mormegil, and Lhuna. Her list of Likely Innocents: Lommy, TP, Diamond18, Macalaure, Rikae, Roa, Nilp, Brinn, Durelin.

Post #63
Says that Volo’s “we wolves” was probably a mistake and not a wolf slip. Fair enough.

Post #78
Now says it’s worthwhile to speculate regarding who would apply for Wizard positions, and who would be chosen as a wolf. Is this not a contradiction of what she said earlier in #51?

Post #96
Responds to Aganzir’s suspicion. Defends speculation again.

Post #101
THE Ka is at the top of Cailin’s suspect list, based on an unfortunate misquoting by Roa which Ka perpetuated. Cailin’s suspicion is understandable at this point, I suppose, as there is little else to go on in Day 1.

Post #105
This is the first post where anyone really goes after Nerwen. Cailin takes on Nerwen’s first post: “This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.” It seems a stretch to get all this out of Nerwen’s post.

Nerwen’s criticisms regarding methods of finding an EW or WW seemed legitimate to me, and not particularly long. Also, it seems like a gross misrepresentation on Cailin’s part to say that Nerwen’s guide to the behavior of werewolves is more helpful to the wolves than it is to the innocents.

Post #108
In response to Nerwen, states again that it’s unnecessary to state common wolf tactics, because we know them already.

Post #123
Dislikes Nerwen even more for voting her following their disagreement, but say that she’s still thinking about voting Ka for “carelessly copying Roa’s misquote” about her (Cailin). It seems to me that she’s fishing for a bandwagon, either Nerwen or Ka, but could care less which one goes down.

Post #127
Points out that TP seems to be playing the role of villager as a neutral one. Also suggests that TP might be a bluffing wizard, but doubts he is a wolf.

Post #165
Votes Nerwen here (beginning of Nerwen bandwagon), because she doesn’t have any other substantial suspicions. Restates her accusations from #105: Nerwen merely spends a long time criticizing others in order to gain a position on “the pedestal of sense.” THE Ka seems to have disappeared inexplicably from the suspicion-radar by this point…

Post #315
Analyzes Volo. No, that’s inaccurate. Really, she just sums up all his posts without actually interpreting them. A lot of work, but not much help. Trying to achieve a spot on the good old pedestal of sense? Also sums up Kitanna’s posts.

Apologizes to Nerwen, because she didn’t think everyone would follow her vote the way they did. She was flabbergasted, in fact. Oops.

Claims to have a “crackpot theory” regarding someone else who looks “mighty suspicious”, but won’t reveal it yet. Let’s see if she does!

Post #337
Acknowledges that there’s not much to gain from looking at Volo and Kitanna. Recommends that we ignore the Roa/TP fight, as they’re likely “two proud ordos going at it.”

Post #359
Suggests that sally is way to appease and make friends. Finds her suspicious for this, and, I think, legitimately points out that sally voted for TP the Day before, but is now joking about with him, which seems a curious switching of attitudes.

Post #371
Jumps on my statement that I think either Roa or TP is bad, and finds my reasoning odd. I didn’t actually give any reasoning, but she suggests possible reasons I might have, and which she finds unpersuasive. She makes me sound pretty bad, though. Maybe she really doesn’t want us inspecting Roa vs. TP. If the case, I doubt her motivation is good.

Post #412
Announces that Diamond seems less than innocent, and runs off to take a closer look.

Post #416
Can’t find a single interesting point that Diamond has made. I agree, actually. By this point, Diamond has been entertaining (keep it up!), but not especially helpful. Cailin thinks Diamond may be a baddie hiding in the open. I think this is legitimate.

Post #434
Not sure who to vote for, but is suspicious of Sally, Brinniel, Diamond, and me.

Post #466
Concedes that Ka’s accidental misquote may have been an honest mistake, but maintains that it’s not a bad cause for suspicion. I think she’s wrong about this; an accidental copying of a misquote is an awfully flimsy basis for a vote. Denies jumping on Nerwen, but I really don’t think you can describe the situation any other way. They definitely jumped on each other, though Nerwen’s post addressed multiple people, and only mentioned Cailin briefly.

Post #480
In response to Brinniel: says it would be as correct to say that she jumped on Nerwen as to say that Nerwen jumped on her. She’s right about this. Also, Cailin doesn’t like what she calls Brinniel’s single-mindedness regarding the who-jumped-on-whom issue.

Post #498
Creeped out by McCaber. Wants to keep Lalaith alive. Uneasy about TP. Curious about but hesitant to vote for Brinniel. Asks if anyone wants to vote for sally or me. Looks to me like she’s fishing for a bandwagon again. TP offers to take her up on the offer and vote for me (in post #504), but seems to think it’s not logistically feasible. McCaber suggests that it could be done.

Post #514
Wants to vote for me, because I’m creepier than the other candidates. I thought McCaber was the creepy one. Not anymore, I suppose, since he’s willing to support her anti-Gwath campaign.

Post #526
Cailin says: “Nay, I know people are watching. I'm testing to see if there is support. I don't want to throw away my vote.” I’m not sure who she means this is reference to.

Post #532
Disappointed that no one (i.e. not enough people to get one of us killed) wanted to vote against sally or gwath.

Post #537
Votes Aganzir. This is the final and deciding vote for Aganzir. If Cailin is a wolf, then she's likely voting off the Safe Votes For Wolves list (if it exists).

So, Cailin does some really bad stuff. She start the Nerwen bandwagon, bases her suspicion of Ka on a copying of an accidental misquote, makes weird apparent contradictions, seems to fish around for public support before voting, misrepresents aspects of Nerwen's posts, and vehemently wants us to not inspect the Roa/TP debate.

But she also casts the vote that gets Aganzir killed, which means that either she is a wolf who decided to risk sacrificing her fellow in order to build her own reputation, an innocent who made some mistakes early on, or a wolf who got scried over somewhere in between Nerwen's death and Aganzir's death.

I have to say that based on the frequently weak, exaggerated, or non-existent reasoning of her posts, coupled with her tendency to drop suspects once it's clear they won't be lynched, I really don't like the way Cailin looks right now. However, whether I vote her or not will depend largely on what happens toDay. I mean to take closer looks at legate and tp as well.

EDIT: Crossed with just about everyone. This beast of a post took me several hours, and I feel rather bad putting you all through it.

Lhunardawen

06-06-2008, 11:40 PM

Ok, good luck darlings then.

And lynch Lommy. I'm so sure of her.

And see what's wrong with Legate and Brinn.

The wolf's final words.

For a moment I was trying to operate under the assumption that Leggie and Agan are communicating wolves, or at least they knew they were both wolves. Then I stumbled onto this post. I don't know what to make of it.

Agan posted this knowing she would be revealed as a wolf after she is lynched. Obviously her intent is to spread confusion, especially if the wolves do know each other. This would make, at first thinking, these people she mentioned innocent.

If the wolves don't know each other, that would make it a little more likely that she got at least one of them right, I mean a wolf.

But what if she posted this to protect at least one of them from lynching, who could be her fellow wolves? Because obviously, we wouldn't take what she said seriously because we now know she's a wolf. She tells us to look at them, and we would most likely think they're innocent.

I hope that made sense.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 11:46 PM

That's a pretty damning analysis of Caillie, Gwath. I'm not sure what I'd think of it if I didn't already suspect Cailin (hey, I may use a joking tone, but milk curdling evil was not an understatement) but it is all very... confirmatory.

Kinda wish she's show her bones today and refute (not the least because I love a good refutation of a damning analysis) but even if she never does, I'm not adverse to the notion of lynching her.

One thing I wonder -- has Eomer been doing any posting for her? I know there was some kind of mention of him stepping to help in if she got too busy (or something) but I don't recall if he was going to announce this substitution or just post seamlessly. Just bringing it up because if it were so it might explain some inconsistencies or seeming differences in manner.

Ah, this brings back fond memories of Not-Cailin.

Diamond18

06-06-2008, 11:48 PM

But what if she posted this to protect at least one of them from lynching, who could be her fellow wolves? Because obviously, we wouldn't take what she said seriously because we now know she's a wolf. She tells us to look at them, and we would most likely think they're innocent.

I hope that made sense.

Well it makes sense to me. I've actually hypothesized as much in post 597 (which Lal cites as helpful and valid. I'm not sure whether to be flattered or insulted by this!)

Isabellkya

06-06-2008, 11:50 PM

Didn't Cailin hold on to her vote until the very end yesterDay? As well, was even wanting to bandwagon Gwath or others? I believe everyone knew she was holding on to it, I recall someone telling her to vote for Aganzir to save Mac from the chopping block.

This is just off the top of my head; but I'm heading away from the computer for a little bit. My elbow is killing me.

Isabellkya

06-06-2008, 11:53 PM

She very easily could've posted what she did, because she knew we would analyze it; thus wasting time on potentially nothing.

the phantom

06-06-2008, 11:53 PM

*sigh*

The case that I wrote up earlier... it's not here. I can't find it. My computer ate it! :mad:

But then I just refreshed my window, and I see that Gwath has made some of the very same points that I was wanting to! :) So that kind of saves me. (Gwath's post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=558116&postcount=641))

Real quick I'll add a couple things. I'm not quite sure how to say this, but....

Cailin acts in a way that reminds me of the way I'd act were I a WW a couple times, and she comes to judgements that I don't think she'd make as an innocent. It's hard to explain. It's just like everything she says just rings WW alarms for me.

Lommy, remember that WerePenguin game? Remember the way Boro and Ang set off my alarms from the get-go. That's how I'm feeling with Cailin.

Yes, yes, I know it's just "feelings" rather than hard evidence, but the fact is we are a bit short on hard evidence considering we don't know who the EW is and it is doubtful the WWs know the EW or even each other. Feelings are the best thing I have.

All right, anyway....

On Day 1, when discussing possible WW choices for the EW, she said this-
Cailín: Beloved by all, unlikely to get lynched. Yea, I’d choose me.
Wow, did that ring alarms during my re-read! :eek: I think the EW did choose her. And this is one of those times where Cai does something exactly the way I would, as far as what I would say if I were her and was a WW.

And then yesterday- I know this is kind of lame, but...
The phantom I am sort of uneasy with.
I just sort of have this feeling that if Cailin were truly innocent, she would be fine with me.

She's seen me operate plenty. And Eomer is right there with her, and he's seen me quite a bit as well. If she isn't sure of me I'd bet that he's busy whispering "tp's innocent" into her ear. I know that seems dumb, but that's just what I'm thinking.

And then she holds her vote later on Day 2 and starts shopping around to lynch someone else. Did she know that Agan was a WW? It's possible. But either way, it just doesn't seem like a Cailin move. I'd come out and ask "Hey, you guys wanna lynch so-and-so instead?" but it didn't feel right coming from Cailin.

And then Mac reveals, and she says "I suppose I should trust Mac", but then waits till 6:00 to vote. What was she waiting on? It takes less than 10 seconds to post "+ + Aganzir". You'd think she would've been in an outright panic if she was truly innocent! "Oh great! Mac's the Ranger! It's up to me! The deadline is almost here!"

Anyway, I'd really like to lynch her. This is the first time I've done multiple read-throughs on someone and gotten a consistent Wolfish feeling for them.

And to top it off, Cel had a "gut feeling" about Cailin yesterday. And you know- I think Cel has good instincts, and I think she is innocent in this game.

And then there's Brin, who I've been feeling as innocent for quite a while. She listed her prime suspects yesterday as Agan and Cailin. She was right once. I think she might be right again.

Lhunardawen

06-06-2008, 11:54 PM

She start the Nerwen bandwagon,
Small thing here: She technically didn't start the bandwagon: she voted for Nerwen first, without knowing what would happen afterwards. The bandwagon usually starts with the second voter.

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 12:04 AM

Well well well.

Looks like Cailin has just been upgraded from milk curdling to soul curdling evil.

(I like to bring the dramatic terminology to the game.)

This is shaping up to be an interesting day.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-07-2008, 12:04 AM

*sigh*

The case that I wrote up earlier... it's not here. I can't find it. My computer ate it!

But then I just refreshed my window, and I see that Gwath has made some of the very same points that I was wanting to! So that kind of saves me. (Gwath's post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=558116&postcount=641))

Real quick I'll add a couple things. I'm not quite sure how to say this, but....

Cailin acts in a way that reminds me of the way I'd act were I a WW a couple times, and she comes to judgements that I don't think she'd make as an innocent. It's hard to explain. It's just like everything she says just rings WW alarms for me.

Lommy, remember that WerePenguin game? Remember the way Boro and Ang set off my alarms from the get-go. That's how I'm feeling with Cailin.

Yes, yes, I know it's just "feelings" rather than hard evidence, but the fact is we are a bit short on hard evidence considering we don't know who the EW is and it is doubtful the WWs know the EW or even each other. Feelings are the best thing I have.

All right, anyway....

On Day 1, when discussing possible WW choices for the EW, she said this-

Wow, did that ring alarms during my re-read! :eek: I think the EW did choose her. And this is one of those times where Cai does something exactly the way I would, as far as what I would say if I were her and was a WW.

And then yesterday- I know this is kind of lame, but...

I just sort of have this feeling that if Cailin were truly innocent, she would be fine with me.

She's seen me operate plenty. And Eomer is right there with her, and he's seen me quite a bit as well. If she isn't sure of me I'd bet that he's busy whispering "tp's innocent" into her ear. I know that seems dumb, but that's just what I'm thinking.

And then she holds her vote later on Day 2 and starts shopping around to lynch someone else. Did she know that Agan was a WW? It's possible. But either way, it just doesn't seem like a Cailin move. I'd come out and ask "Hey, you guys wanna lynch so-and-so instead?" but it didn't feel right coming from Cailin.

And then Mac reveals, and she says "I suppose I should trust Mac", but then waits till 6:00 to vote. What was she waiting on? It takes less than 10 seconds to post "+ + Aganzir". You'd think she would've been in an outright panic if she was truly innocent! "Oh great! Mac's the Ranger! It's up to me! The deadline is almost here!"

Anyway, I'd really like to lynch her. This is the first time I've done multiple read-throughs on someone and gotten a consistent Wolfish feeling for them.

And to top it off, Cel had a "gut feeling" about Cailin yesterday. And you know- I think Cel has good instincts, and I think she is innocent in this game.

And then there's Brin, who I've been feeling as innocent for quite a while. She listed her prime suspects yesterday as Agan and Cailin. She was right once. I think she might be right again.

Something strikes me as odd here. I think it's Phantoms saying that "Hey, since I'm doing these things, I'm innocent, but since Cailin's doing these things, she's evil!" Kind of a double standard, if you ask me. :rolleyes:

the phantom

06-07-2008, 12:10 AM

Something strikes me as odd here. I think it's Phantoms saying that "Hey, since I'm doing these things, I'm innocent, but since Cailin's doing these things, she's evil!" Kind of a double standard, if you ask me.
There are some things that I do as an innocent that I can't see her doing. In such cases yes there is a double standard. But there is also a thing or two that she does that I also would want to do if I was a WW. That's not a double standard.

But now some good news! I turns out that I will be able to be around quite a bit tomorrow! :)

That means I don't have to stay up late tonight posting. So I'm going to go to bed and do most of my posting tomorrow late morning and early afternoon (between 4 & 9 GMT).

But a couple quick things, just so people know where I stand (I think people should always try to let everyone know where they stand)-

1) Sorry for suspecting you, Shasta. After my thorough read throughs I felt you rather innocent and I like the way you've been saying things today.

2) Lommy, unless turned last night, has got to be innocent.

3) I feel rather good about Legate, Brin, Celuin, and Rikae.

4) Cailin is bad.

5) I'm sleepy. Bed time. It's been a long week.

*falls asleep*

Brinniel

06-07-2008, 12:12 AM

I suggest we DON'T focus on Roa or tp. No wizard in her right mind would scry either of them, anyway.
I wouldn't count on that. A wizard may anticipate that others may ignore them thinking those two would draw too much attention to be scried...and scry them. And of course there's the possibility that one could be the actual EW. We shouldn't solely focus our attention on tp and Roa, but it's be a horrible horrible idea to disregard them.

Could Ka have been unscried and then killed for knowing her fellows? Maybe the EW cut communication and Ka....well, why would she tell Agan she'd been unscried?
An interesting idea, but I don't think that's possible. While it's a good idea to keep unscrying in mind...I don't think it could've happened in the last two Nights. Why? Because I think if someone was unscryed we'd only have three wolves...and you need four for two kills. If there were only three wolves...then the second death would have to be from double scrying. But I doubt that's happened as the narrations hints that all kills were done by WWs...and I'm thinking there would be some kind of indication if someone was double scryed. (What does someone look like when they've died by too much magic?)

But then, I STILL suspect Lommy of Wizardry. She could have sacrificed Agan, and Agan could be none the wiser about her actual role, thus rendering Agan's comment moot. Despite what TP says about the folly of the EW sacrificing wolves, we've seen it done successfully in the past and I wouldn't put it past Lommy to be going by that model.
I've been thinking about this possibility too. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see an EW Lommy sacrifice Aganzir by forcefully attacking her herself. At first appearance, it does make her look more innocent. And if it were so, I'm sure Agan-wolf wouldn't even know the main advocate of her lynching was the EW. Or maybe she did....and used her attacks against Lommy to make it look less likely the two were working together. I don't know...it's just a theory. But I'm starting to think that behind that sweet surface of Lommy, there might be something more sinister brewing. I need to have a better look at her posts before I dwell anymore on this, though.

But there is someone that, in my multiple rereadings yesterday, I started to really not like very much. I'm sort of excited because it's my first halfway strong guilty feeling that I've gotten. Oh, sure, I have been uneasy about some, like Shasta, who I have actually reversed my opinion about, but this time I actually feel good about it.

Nope. Not telling who yet.

You know, that reminds someone else said something very similar to this yesterDay:

I have one more, possibly crackpot, theory at the moment, but it's one of those that requires the day to play out; so I won't reveal it yet. Let's just say someone else is looking mighty suspicious to me today.
Did she actually reveal her theory? I'm not sure...

Legate has seemed to be jumpy, defensive, and frustrated quite a bit these 3 Days. As a Wolf, though, I seemed to recall him as slipping by unnoticed, playing things smoothly, avoiding arguments and playing nice. But my long-term memory is...very selective. And that was a good while ago, so many things could have changed.
Yes, that's what I remember too. Last time Legate acted this way, he turned out innocent.

I also definitely want to see some more action between him and Rikae. Who I agree is a bit different toDay. Something happen during the Night?

Something did happen...her husband was killed. Well, now we know what it takes to make Rikae aggressive. :p But was she in fact partially responsible for her loved one's death...that is something I do wonder...

Four Wolves (Aganzir died, and one was scried - I believe the plot mentions Mac dying at the hand of four wolves.)
Yes it does:
The shapes of the four werewolves emerged from the darkness coming slowly towards him.
Anyways, four wolves are necessary for two kills.

I wonder why we never thought that the division sign is more appropriate for making lynch votes.
Because none of us Americans (or at least me) have that symbol on our keyboard and we'd never vote on time. Just like we don't have any other fancy symbols which is why I type Eonwe not Eönwë, which originally caused all this confusion on whether he played WW before or not... *whines about American keyboards*

By the by, a look at the posting counts surprised me. Shasta has the second most number of posts (behind, well do I even have to say?) yet I don't think he's garnered near the attention.

Hmmmm. I may have to break down and review his posts. Cheerful killer that he is.
Hey Di, how did you do that...check how much each member has posted in a thread? Six years on the Downs, and I've never known of that feature before... :rolleyes:

One thing I wonder -- has Eomer been doing any posting for her? I know there was some kind of mention of him stepping to help in if she got too busy (or something) but I don't recall if he was going to announce this substitution or just post seamlessly. Just bringing it up because if it were so it might explain some inconsistencies or seeming differences in manner.
I believe so. See here:
I wish to point out that I've been misquoted twice now (due to a nameless possession this was not noted before).

And that nameless possession is what I'd guess to be the ghost of Eomer.

Call me crazy, but I really think we should not come around suspicions only on the assumption that two wolves may know each other. They could...but we can't know that for sure, so I just see it as faulty reasoning to say someone looks furry they look like they might be a wolf with someone else. Get what I'm saying?

I only skimmed through tp's analysis of Cailin, but I do want a better look later...

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 12:22 AM

Hey Di, how did you do that...check how much each member has posted in a thread? Six years on the Downs, and I've never known of that feature before...

Brinn, you go outside the thread, to Middle Earth Mirth, and click on the total number of posts for the thread (on the right).

This brings up that screenshot.

And if you want a list of a certain person's posts (all of 'em) you click on the number of posts they've made.

Makes reviewing a single person's posts, like, way easier, man.

Also, regarding nameless possession. I thought she meant that the quote in question did not have a name attached to it. Like the one I just did for you.

Brinniel

06-07-2008, 12:31 AM

Brinn, you go outside the thread, to Middle Earth Mirth, and click on the total number of posts for the thread (on the right).

Okay, got that...thanks.

And I did at least know of the 'see all posts by that person' feature, thankfully.

Also, regarding nameless possession. I thought she meant that the quote in question did not have a name attached to it. Like the one I just did for you.
Ah yeah, that could be so. I was probably just reading too much into that... :rolleyes:

Shastanis Althreduin

06-07-2008, 12:35 AM

(What does someone look like when they've died by too much magic?)

I'm of the firm view that they explode. :D

I'm in agreement that Cailin, in light of Gwath's analysis (thanks by the way, Gwath), looks pretty bad. As does Legate still. Celuien and Lommy, I can't get a read on. I'll try them later, but.... it's late and I'm tired. I may lurk for a while, but I'm going to bed soon. Good night. :)

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 12:47 AM

And I did at least know of the 'see all posts by that person' feature, thankfully.

That was assures you only get Werewolf posts, which makes it even better than "all posts." Well do I remember doing analysis of players that way and cursing them every time they posted in a different thread. *shakes fist at Crazy Captions*

Speaking of that, I did look through all of Shasta's posts. He doesn't feel overtly suspicious to me, though he did seem to cling to only two suspects for a long time (Legate and phantom) before seeing fit to analyze McCaber and Gwath. I'm not sure that's suspicious, necessarily, but it bears keeping in mind. The thing that niggles at me is how much he's posted without saying anything overly controversial.

Maybe I'm just a controversy addict, but you know.

Okay. Right now, I've been engaging in long bouts of starting at my sleeping cats and any thinking about WW I've been doing has been punctuated by marveling at how cute they are and how good they make the act of sleeping appear. Merry is making whimpering noises in his sleep ZOMG I may die from such exposure to raw cuteness.

So this is likely my last post for tonight. zzzz

Isabellkya

06-07-2008, 01:39 AM

What made you want to analyze Cailin, Gwath?

I echo the statement about american keyboards... no division sign. :(

Cailín

06-07-2008, 02:45 AM

I'll let you lynch me if you guess which posts were Eomer's and which were mine. :p

No, seriously, since your assumptions about my playing style seem to be influencing your analysis (and I'm specifically addressing Phantom here), allow me to clear things up. The first Day most, but not all posts, were of my own making. Brinn guessed right at the meaning of the nameless possession and there were some other posts here and there that were not composed by yours truly. Day 2 was all Eomer - this is obviously going to lead to some contrast in style.

A more thorough response to Gwath is coming up.

It's because I'm really, really busy. I would have dropped out, but Eomer wanted to play pretty badly. ;)

Brinniel

06-07-2008, 03:00 AM

Well, I can't agree with all of phantom's reasonings behind his suspicion for Cailin. For one thing, I can't relate to (and therefore trust) his own personal experiences and feelings in previous games. But there is one really good point that he did bring up:
And then Mac reveals, and she says "I suppose I should trust Mac", but then waits till 6:00 to vote. What was she waiting on? It takes less than 10 seconds to post "+ + Aganzir". You'd think she would've been in an outright panic if she was truly innocent! "Oh great! Mac's the Ranger! It's up to me! The deadline is almost here!"
That late in the Day, I don't know why she would take an extra moment to doubt him. And if she was uncertain, Mac's identity would surely be found out in the next Night or Day....so why take those critical minutes to think it over? She did vote Aganzir, but risking it only seconds before the deadline. I don't know...it's just in my opinion that when it's that close to deadline that you shouldn't hesitate to trust a claimed gifted...if he's lying, you'll know soon enough.

As for Rikae...her attitude has changed drastically toDay...much more aggressive. Though looking through posts, I did notice her attitude started to turn at the end of yesterDay. I really don't know what to think. An aggressive Rikae is more of a typical Rikae, though I think that applies when she's both an innocent and wolf. I'm actually starting to wonder if we should question when she was acting much more mellow and "less threatening." People noticed and commented on it...is it possible that people noticing a change in playing style would make an evil Rikae nervous and revert back to her old self?

It bugged me before, but I'm really starting to not like how McCaber is just popping in and out...voting with no explanation. He only has six posts and all of them are short. He says he doesn't have much time and even admits to flying under the radar:

Well, I hate flying under the radar like this, but I'm running out of time toDay.
Okay, understandable you're short on time....but if you're absolutely unable to explain a vote when you make it, at least explain the next Day. Seriously, giving a reason should not take much time...unless you have to fabricate one. Just because someone is short on time doesn't mean they're not a wolf. In fact, a wolf short on time is the most dangerous kind because they can slip under the radar and milk the fact that they don't have much time. I know this because whenever I was a wolf, my teammates who lasted the longest were the ones least involved because they were lacking time. I wouldn't doubt that the EW has chosen to scry at least one infrequent poster.

The same could be said for anyone posting infrequently. But McCaber's the one who sticks out the most to me, mainly because he says the least in his posts and doesn't give any explanation.

No, seriously, since your assumptions about my playing style seem to be influencing your analysis (and I'm specifically addressing Phantom here), allow me to clear things up. The first Day most, but not all posts, were of my own making. Brinn guessed right at the meaning of the nameless possession and there were some other posts here and there that were not composed by yours truly. Day 2 was all Eomer - this is obviously going to lead to some contrast in style.
This is interesting. I knew Eomer was making some posts (and yes, I can figure out a few), but I didn't realise how involved he really was. It's something I will have to take into consideration...and that's something phantom will have to do as he seems to base some of his suspicion on how Cailin normally acts... :p

Cailín

06-07-2008, 03:11 AM

From Eomer. :D

So, Cailin does some really bad stuff. She start the Nerwen bandwagon, bases her suspicion of Ka on a copying of an accidental misquote, makes weird apparent contradictions, seems to fish around for public support before voting, misrepresents aspects of Nerwen's posts, and vehemently wants us to not inspect the Roa/TP debate.

But she also casts the vote that gets Aganzir killed, which means that either she is a wolf who decided to risk sacrificing her fellow in order to build her own reputation, an innocent who made some mistakes early on, or a wolf who got scried over somewhere in between Nerwen's death and Aganzir's death.

I have to say that based on the frequently weak, exaggerated, or non-existent reasoning of her posts, coupled with her tendency to drop suspects once it's clear they won't be lynched, I really don't like the way Cailin looks right now. However, whether I vote her or not will depend largely on what happens toDay. I mean to take closer looks at legate and tp as well.

Ok.

I won't do a post-by-post riposte because it would be too long and no-one would read it. But I noticed a couple of little things you mention that seem pretty unfair to me (something about a contradiction in my first 4 posts? :confused: ) If I don't address something specific that you want, please remind me.

I think it was Lhuna who argued in my favour about your Nerwen ''bandwagon''. What I did had nothing to do with a bandwagon: I voted for someone with no votes who I found suspicious.

I really don't see what's hard to understand about that thing with The Ka. It's happened in games before: a lazy wolf, looking for a case to build, gathers together someone else's work and re-jigs it a bit. That's what I suspected. Roa mistakenly put my name atop a Celuien post, and The Ka copied Roa's post in talking about me, not the original. This looked like a lazy attempt to keep my name in the suspicion realm. I changed my mind after seeing Ka's response, which felt sincere to me.

I seem to fish around for public support? Yes, of course. I don't want to throw away my vote. Had I not done so yesterday Mac might have tied with Aganzir. It doesn't mean I drop my suspicions; it means that I must wait for another day. Gwath, the spin you put on what is basic voting tactics is remarkable.

As for misrepresenting Nerwen's post, I'm not sure I agree with that. What I will agree with is that I got it totally wrong. You say I managed to squeeze a lot from Nerwen's first post, but really I was looking for an archetypal first Wolf post. Nerwen's looked a likely one to me.

Vehemently want you to stop looking at Roa and the phantom? I simply said, in one line, not to focus on them. Your suggestion, Gwath, now that's misrepresentation! :p

Well, that's that. I'll look back to see if the phantom offered more.

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 03:14 AM

When I try to post, I am being forced to reply to Diamond´s last post. Technological weirdness. I´ve cut the quote, hope the post comes up ok.

I´ve continued to think about this order of wolves created business.
Here´s what I´ve come up with.
a. The EW wants to create new wolves, but at the same time she is trying to find the GW. So after Night One, when she creates her basic team, her picks are likely to be players she thinks might be the GW.
b. We know she hasn't found the GW yet because we have four wolves.
c. However, given a choice of candidates, she is also probably scrying people less likely to get lynched the next day. Because if a GW is lynched, she is revealed, the EW finds out anyway. And if her new wolf is lynched, well, she loses a wolf.

So bearing that in mind, I will go through the thread and list of players to see if I can come up with likely turned wolves.

A Little Green

06-07-2008, 03:22 AM

Good morning, sweethearts - I got to post at last, after an hour of reading... :rolleyes: So a couple of things I noticed as I read:

1)I don't know what this might mean, but looking at the Day 1 record, Aganzir didn't have to vote Nerwen to save herself; Nerwen already had 5 votes to Aganzir's 4 before Aganzir voted. Is there another reason, maybe, that she voted Nerwen?I don't think so. It was either that she feared that the ones who hadn't voted yet might vote for her, or that she wasn't quite on track of the tally - she might even have cross-posted with someone so the count might have been other whe she started posting. (Anyway I have no idea why I'm saying this, because it's probably quite useless speculation as we know the roles of both Agan and Nerwen...)

2)If the wolves knew one another's identities, it's unlikely that Brinn or Legate are wolves. The problem is that that's wrongly phrased: it's unlikely that they were wolves on Day1.I disagree. Even if the wolves knew one another's identities, I'd still think it quite probable there is a wolf among a bandwagon against a fellow.

3)Le problem est a smart EW (or one who reads my posts) might use this information to this advantage . . . one of them, at least, could have been turned . . I don't quite get this, dear son-in-law. Why say that?

4)I just sort of have this feeling that if Cailin were truly innocent, she would be fine with me.

She's seen me operate plenty. And Eomer is right there with her, and he's seen me quite a bit as well. If she isn't sure of me I'd bet that he's busy whispering "tp's innocent" into her ear.I'm not sure, I might be just overreacting, but this clangs oddly with the same sort of "innocent = one who agrees with me" -attitude he (at least to my eye) seemed to perform yesterDay also.

5)But a couple quick things, just so people know where I stand (I think people should always try to let everyone know where they stand)-Sounds odd from a person who also said But there is someone that, in my multiple rereadings yesterday, I started to really not like very much. I'm sort of excited because it's my first halfway strong guilty feeling that I've gotten. Oh, sure, I have been uneasy about some, like Shasta, who I have actually reversed my opinion about, but this time I actually feel good about it.

Nope. Not telling who yet.

What comes to the reason THE Ka was killed last Night, I guess it was because she looked innocent, was a traceless kill, and also is quite a sharp player.

As to who looks BAD. McCaber, Izzy (though she's been more active toDay.. has she?) and morm (on the two previous days his behaviour was mostly "drop in - vote Brinn - drop out") look somewhat sinister, but I'd wish to hear more about them before deciding anything on their innocence or guilt. McCaber at least doesn't look good.
tp I'm puzzled about (as ever) but he looks more guilty than innocent at the moment. I'm wary about Legate. Still watching Gwath.

Who looks GOOD at the moment? Brinn has been helpful and smart and looks genuine. I have a good feeling about Lhuna.

That's all for now, I'm off to have some breakfast. (Wait... it's past midday already... I started reading the thread almost two hours ago...):rolleyes:

EDIT: x-ed with Cailín and Lal

Cailín

06-07-2008, 03:23 AM

Well, that was pretty easy. I know you'll be offended by this, phantom, but I can just dismiss your post. By your standards it's pretty lame.

Eomer is here, occasionally whispering, more often typing, and he does not find you especially innocent. And yeah, he usually does. I like to keep you around because you're a good poster and an interesting villager, but it kind of hurts that you don't see me the same way. :p

One thing you pointed out: because of what you and Nogrod clarified on Day 2, I was fully aware I could vote on the hour exactly. At that time, with all the panic-posting, I needed a minute to really get my thoughts together. Yeah, it was obvious I had to vote for Aganzir but at the time I double-checked.

Besides, if I could take an extra second to tease Brinniel with one of these -- :p -- then I say it was worth it. ;)

Well, I've defended myself. I didn't think it was difficult and I don't want to do anymore of it today. I want to assess other villagers later on.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-07-2008, 03:27 AM

Hey, fellas. Not much time, today is bad time-wise for me, but I hope to be here for the later part of the Day.

I skimmed the therad and then started to read it again, deeply, noting some things, marking down, you know the stuff, as I do. So here we go:

Oh, that's right, I had one thought lingering from yesterday. What the h is up with Aganzir's directions after she knew she was going to die? Like we're all going to rush to obey a Wolf? I'm beginning to think I'm not the only one on wax in this village.
I actually would think that this is of no value at all, and (only an opinion towards which I am leaning to) I will be inclined to think that what she said may likely have been false (i.e. that those she named would be innocentish, that is, it is not a double-frame). But that's just my opinion given the way she said it combined with what I'd imagine she could say etc. But in any case, I won't give that much weigth to her last words, as it may prove risky.

Lommy, the biggest problem I have with you analysis is that you have an assumption that, in my mind, is invalid. I don't think the EW would reveal the identity of the other wolves. It seems easier to have the wolves remain undected if they don't know each other.
Good point. I think so as well. However, as the Days pile up, is it possible that the Wolves at least get better ideas of each other? I'd think so. Unless the EW gives them completely free hand during the Days (as, we heard Roa, can be done with no problem), but even then they can get some knowledge by themselves - and there may be hints i.e. from picks they send to the EW if she ignores them (it may be either because she has better subjects to kill, but also because they picked a wolf)... I would say it this way: it IS possible that the Wolves - or some of them (there may be more trusted, less trusted, or given the length of their "work" there etc...) don't have any better knowledge of other wolves than the ordos, however, "statistically", so to say, or by average I think they should have at least some more knowledge than the others. But we can't say for certain, until we know who the EW is, etc.

Also, I am somewhat surprised that an innocent Lommy would be allowed to live today. Isn't she a clear choice for a wolf kill, considering Agan's death makes her seem so innocent? IF she is innocent. If she is not, it's all so convenient. It's also convenient if she was innocent but instead of being mauled, was scried and converted to evil, because she was going to look so innocent today, due to actual innocence that no longer applies! *jabs finger in the air triumphantly*
That's actually good point and I thought about it already at Lommy's first posts yesterDay, as she did seem DIFFERENT to me. See, after her row with Aganzir yesterDay, unless it was two Wolves or something like that, it would make sense (or so I think) to get rid of her. Unless the Wolves wanted confusion... which is well possible... but still I would somewhat be inclined to the theory that they did not leave her alone, and that, because she wasn't killed, would mean that she was scried by the EW. That is supported by what I said, her post seems less ordolommish to me.

But then, I STILL suspect Lommy of Wizardry. She could have sacrificed Agan, and Agan could be none the wiser about her actual role, thus rendering Agan's comment moot. Despite what TP says about the folly of the EW sacrificing wolves, we've seen it done successfully in the past and I wouldn't put it past Lommy to be going by that model.
Hmm, that's also possible, but I in fact don't think Lommy a Wizard. That will be pretty odd, and I am not sure about the sacrificing Agan part, too. (If that becomes more of a subject, I may elaborate, but now I'm running out of time... shall just quickly finish the post and then go.)

I'll sniff at the Mac bandwaggon first. Akamaru!

Rarf!
:D

I've barely skimmed what's been posted so far, but it looks like Rikae and Legate have started a little something. Don't do that! I'm feeling you both as rather innocent right now.
Oh yes, well, I was REALLY, REALLY tired back there :eek: But still I can't shake completely the somewhat bad gut feeling about Rikae, but if I were to take it seriously, I would have to look at her posts closely in particular. I may as well do as soon as I have time - not now.

By the by, this is the second time Legate's gotten into it a bit with another player. And the last person he got on the bad side of was... dun dun... the ranger. Not looking so good, cousin. (Though I do like it when people lock horns, I'm jus' sayin'.)
Eee, don't forget it was first Mac who "got into it a bit" with me. Then, as you can see and as I said, I concluded from that that he may be a Gifted trying to lure me out as presumably a wolf, thus I thought he's gifted and tried to be shut up about him.

Anyway. I am finishing at post #609, don't have time to do anything more now, but I will continue (on where I ended) as soon as I am here. Requests, questions, write up, please, will reply when I'm back. Hope to be back in some six hours at most.

EDIT: Oh, just one thing I thought of. I realised it's actually a LOT easier for me to read the thread this Day. That would be in fact alarming - it may mean that we are really becoming smaller numbers in the way that it becomes apparent. But may be also just because Mr._____ is not trying as hard as before, or that I was here for the beginning of the Day, so I don't have to catch up on too much. Anyway, see ya.

A Little Green

06-07-2008, 03:49 AM

Legate - not much time, huh? :D

I actually would think that this is of no value at all, and (only an opinion towards which I am leaning to) I will be inclined to think that what she said may likely have been false (i.e. that those she named would be innocentish, that is, it is not a double-frame). But that's just my opinion given the way she said it combined with what I'd imagine she could say etc. But in any case, I won't give that much weigth to her last words, as it may prove risky. While I agree that we shouldn't give too much weight to Agan's last words as she most likely wanted to create confusion (in which she seems to have succeeded well enough... :rolleyes: ), but the part I italicised (or whatever the verb is) made me raise an eyebrow. Of course if Legate is innocent he has a very good reason to suppose so. But if not - it's still no surprise he would say that. After all, he was one of those Agan mentioned. Don't know what to make of that, really...

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 04:06 AM

I've got to go out now, I'm going to go through the list of players when I get back, applying my criteria. I am quite excited about this theory of mine and I think it could be helpful.
I'm also going to re-read the post-DW discussion from last time when Roa talked about her strategy - to see if I can find something to back up my EW scrying theory.
Roa herself could tell us what she thinks (although in her current game incarnation she might be an untrustworthy source...)

Brinniel

06-07-2008, 04:41 AM

While I agree that we shouldn't give too much weight to Agan's last words as she most likely wanted to create confusion (in which she seems to have succeeded well enough... ), but the part I italicised (or whatever the verb is) made me raise an eyebrow. Of course if Legate is innocent he has a very good reason to suppose so. But if not - it's still no surprise he would say that. After all, he was one of those Agan mentioned. Don't know what to make of that, really...
That's similar to what I was about to say. I mean, of course Legate has to think everyone mentioned there is probably innocent when he's among them. :p Aganzir is too clever of a wolf to purposely give off a list of all innocents. Besides, I still don't think the wolves knew of each other...so she could easily just be throwing names in the air without meaning anything.

Anyways...my main reason for this post was to say I just realised I totally forgot about Lommy! I meant to look through her posts and do some analysing when I was writing my last post, but I guess it just completely slipped my mind. It's really late, so I don't have time to do it now...but I do intend to take a better look at her tomorrow. She seemed so innocentish to me at least on Day 1...but now I'm not so sure. And as pointed out, she could've easily started out innocent and have been scryed a wolf later on. As I said, I'll look at it tomorrow...

Good-night everyone. I'll be back in several hours.

McCaber

06-07-2008, 05:04 AM

Alright, I'm done being the "ultimate submarine." I guess my ex-girlfriend Agan being a werewolf is enough to bring back my focus.

Gwath and phantom - very interesting. Now I have to go back and read Cailin's posts again. I think you guys have something there.

Brin - you may be right about that. Agan and Lommy are shrewd enough to pull that sort of thing off and arrange it so that whoever survived yesterday would be relatively free of charge.

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 06:24 AM

Ok, so it’s the weekend, and I’ve got time to be helpful. I’ve been thinking like a EW for the past hour or so, to try to catch wolves. It’s important to try to get one toDay, because if the wolves go up to five, it’s going to be hard to catch them all before they kill us.

Night one: three wolves, of which I am pretty sure Aganzir was one. (I don’t think she would have been scried because she was too close to being lynched both days) the two remaining wolves are what I refer to in the analysis as ‘original wolves.’
Night two: Wolf 3: we are looking for someone posting as innocent on Day One and as a wolf yesterDay and toDay.
Night three: Wolf 4 who is posting as a wolf for the first time toDay.

here’s the analysis. I include myself for the sake of fairness. My assessments of who would be an unlikely wizard are based on various things: RL situation (busy-ness), their WW experience/profile. It is of course not infallible.

Little Green, Not sure here. Clearly smart, but never played with her before so don’t know her WW profile.
Shastanis Althreduin, Not a particularly likely wizard so not a particularly likely scry, and feels quite innocent today.
Isabellkaya, could be ‘original’ wolf, but unlikely scry as not likely wizard
Thinlómien, likely wizard, thus likely scry. As I said before, feeling quite worried about her even before this analysis. And what her interaction with Aganzir reminds me of is the Roa/Valier thing last DW, when Valier went after Roa and continued to do so after she was guilty. Perhaps Lommy has been scried, and told to keep going after Aganzir.
Nilpaurion Felagund, confusion over start means unlikely wizard, thus unlikely scry. Could be original wolf
Eönwë, could be ‘original’ wolf, but unlikely scry as not likely wizard
Kath, I really don’t know about Kath – I never do. The ultimate submarine girl. I’d have wanted her for an original wolf if I was a EW, that’s for sure.
Satansaloser 2005 , could be ‘original’ wolf, but unlikely scry as not likely wizard (too busy)
Rikae, likely wizard, and very likely scry. Has slipped under radar
the phantom, likely wizard candidate, but very unlikely scry either night – too close to getting lynched
Diamond 18, a likely scry. However, she’s being very helpful today, so I’m inclined to think she’s not evil.
Cailín, I still think that she was innocent on the first day, but I think that although she’s currently protesting busy-ness, she’d definitely be seen as a potential wizard and so a very likely scry
Lhunardawen, Possible wizard, possible scry. But she feels quite innocent right now.
Durelin, She’s felt less guilty to me than she did last time I played with her (when I correctly guessed she was a wolf) but she could have been scried last night.
Roa_Aoife, Now, this is a puzzle. Unlike phantom, she hasn’t been a likely lynch candidate, so she could be someone a wizard would want to scry. Would she be a wizard twice in a row? If she’s innocent, why is she still alive?
Brinniel, likely scry – particularly for Night 3. but again, she’s been helpful all through the game and still seems helpful today, so I’m inclined to think her innocent.
Legate of Amon Lanc, likely wizard candidate, but unlikely scry - too many votes on Day 2 to be Night 3 wolf
Lalaith could be ‘original’ wolf, but unlikely scry as not likely wizard
Mormegil, normally I’d say a likely scry because likely wizard, but a wizard Morm would surely be more active so I’m not sure...
Celuien, could be ‘original’ wolf, but unlikely scry as not likely wizard
Gwathagor, Not sure here. Never played with him before so don’t know his WW profile. But I think his analysis of Cailin today is interesting and knowing her status would provide more info on Gwath.
McCaber, could be ‘original’ wolf, (in fact I suspect him of being so) but unlikely scry as not likely wizard.

So the upshot of this analysis is that there are a whole heap of people who could be original wolves. But if we focus on the new wolves, it gets easier.

I conclude that Cailin, Lommy, Rikae, Roa, Durelin are the most likely candidates for wolves 3 & 4. Little Green is also a possibility.

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 06:25 AM

One other thing:
There were two fatal bandwaggons yesterDAY: The Agan one and the Mac one. Obviously, the Mac waggon is more suspicious, unless the Wolves were ordered to go after Agan (and yesterDAY would be a good time to do that, since they Dark Side already has 4 Wolves - they can afford to sacrifice one, and replace it the following NIGHT.)

Not sure about this, Nilp. Why would the EW sacrifice a wolf by ordering her wolves to go after her? She can’t guarantee that the villagers would be thrown off the scent re voting patterns, because most of us are assuming that the wolves don’t know each other’s identities anyway. They don’t need to yet, and they’re going to know about each other once the EW has gone.
It’s quite possible on the other hand that the EW herself might vote for a wolf to hide her own identity. Its my belief that she she’s hiding her own identity from her wolves – and she’s bound to have some wolves that are likely to be scried by the GW.

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 06:30 AM

Joining the ranks of the triple posters....
the reason I spent so much time on this, is because the 'who was wolved when' method worked for me before - eventually, I managed to spot most of the wolves in the last DW game.
Not that I was listened to...sigh....:rolleyes:
Di and Eomer will know what I'm talking about....

Cailín

06-07-2008, 06:41 AM

Lommy's points against me are taken out of thin air. It looks much more like a deliberate decision to start to suspect someone than actual suspicion because someone is suspicious - gradually switching from random IC reasons to gut feelings and then making my posts look suspicious.

Yes, I admit that I am suspicious of her because she is of me, but because I know I am innocent and her suspicion doesn't make sense (well and she hasn't been doing much else than accusing me so maybe it's understandable?).

I'm pretty positive Lommy isn't the EW though, she is too daring and suspicious to be that. I'd expect the EW to keep a bit lower profile and not looking so plain wolfish. A wolf with orders to create as much havoc and lynch as many innocents as possible, and maybe cover the EW & the other wolves' tracks. Just what I would have told Lommy if I had been the EW and picked her. Suits her nature well. :p

And good work Lommy, because I didn't even think you might be a wolf before you started accusing me.

I'm most probably going to vote for her today.

I've been re-reading the Lommy/Aganzir stuff and I find it quite interesting. At the risk of sounding stupid, I'm not quite sure why Aganzir got so many votes in the first 2 days. I mean, well done everyone with rounding on her, great result and all that! But I'm curious how we got there. I don't find what she posted all that suspicious.

Her argument against Lommy here looks good to me. Which raises doubts in my mind (which I know others among you already had) about Lommy's part in the lynching. I also don't understand why Lommy posted:

STOP TRUSTING MY JUDGEMENT ON AGANZIR!!!!!!!!!!

Or something similar. Weird thing to say. Very eager to direct the accusations but unwilling to take too much responsibility?

This often happens to those who bag a wolf, though. Instead of congratulations you get suspected! :D

That's why I'll be watching her. (Lommy will now also realise that her dynamic with Cailín has been altered due to the influence of Eomer, who ALWAYS suspects her. ;) )

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 06:50 AM

Rikae

06-07-2008, 06:52 AM

äääääääääääääääööööööööööööööööööööööööööö
Downloaded a program to do that even on my American keyboard.

Lalaith said I'm a very likely scry, and I agree. I'm sure the people who matter know what I am by now.I really am not this great player everybody thinks I am, and the fact that everybody thinks so makes me more prominent than I rightly should be. I would not give a role to me - you don't get the skill to match the hype - but I don't doubt I've been scried.

What else can I say? Oh, well, I'm not feeling any better about Legate. I had the feeling he was trying to impersonate a gifted the other day, for what it's worth.

Nilp said something about a "smart EW", but from what's been happenign so far, I daresay that is not the type of EW we have. Hear that, EW? I think you're dumb! :p

Cailín

06-07-2008, 07:16 AM

Lalaith, I think you over-estimate the powers of Roa, great though they may be. I'm not exactly startled she's still alive. Having said that, the thought did come to me today at lunch ''Fit aboot Roa?''

I'll have a look at her later. Busy now. Also want to get a feel on players I haven't yet considered, mostly because they've been too quite. Morm, Nilp, etc.

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 07:20 AM

Le problem est a smart EW (or one who reads my posts) might use this information to this advantage . . . one of them, at least, could have been turned . .I don't quite get this, dear son-in-law. Why say that? (Greenie)She quoted from post 590 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=558045&postcount=590), where I repeated what I said yesterDAY: Agan might have voted for Nerwen, giving the Healer a two-vote lead, cos she feared that some of those who haven't voted yet (myself, Lhuna, and Kath) might show up and vote for her. Which, in light of my belief in communicating Wolves, makes Kath and Lhuna look innocent. However, the EW might have thought of this and turned at least one of them the following NIGHTs.

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 07:29 AM

The above post is Nilp's.

Toinx.

Rikae

06-07-2008, 07:30 AM

She quoted from post 590 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=558045&postcount=590) , where I repeated what I said yesterDAY: Agan might have voted for Nerwen, giving the Healer a two-vote lead, cos she feared that some of those who haven't voted yet (myself, Lhuna, and Kath) might show up and vote for her. Which, in light of my belief in communicating Wolves, makes Kath and Lhuna look innocent. However, the EW might have thought of this and turned at least one of them the following NIGHTs.
But she didn't. He is a big lunkhead, and didn't think of doing that. *kicks the EW*

Still, Kath and Lhuna are both excellent choices for wolves. The EW may just want to go and change one of them toNight as a fourth wolf. I would very highly recommend it. Well, maybe not Lhuna, as she dislikes being a wolf, and so it's kind of mean to make her one - oh, yeah, though, this is the evil wizard we're talking about. So that kind of just sails right past "mean".

Rikae

06-07-2008, 07:32 AM

Wow, as if the game weren't complicated enough, we've got two people posting under the names of others. Good thing I'm not still using Mac's computer (amusing as that might be).
I'll go back to my previous post and change the quote attribution accordingly (before Cailin threatens to vote for me).

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-07-2008, 08:13 AM

Out-of-body experiences are plain weird.

Enedwaith, Rikae is just acting so differently from before. Reminds me of a certain Valier in another Wizard-infested village . . .

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 08:14 AM

Eek, sorry for the confusion Rikae. Shtoopid Nilp :p forgot I was still logged on.

I haven't done more than a cursory read-through of toDay and yesterDay. But I see some people have also considered the possibility of Lommy being the EW and going after Agan. I don't know exactly how, but as I re-read their posts yesterDay (especially the ones with all caps and exclamation points - those were hilarious) the idea seemed to be likelier to me. Agan's last words certainly fit the notion, at least as I understand it.

The confusing thing for me is, I'm also getting the stronger feeling that the phantom might be the EW. Don't know how I got there. There's something fishy about him telling me that if he was the EW he would kill me if I kept on insisting that he was. I don't get it.

Anyway, Leggie is still suspicious. I can vaguely remember that he made some inconsistencies yesterDay. I'll try to dig them up.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 08:22 AM

Eomer's been posting, eh? No wonder I picked up on WW vibes. He's EVIL!!

Green's still looking innocent to me. You're wrong about me though.
Well, that was pretty easy. I know you'll be offended by this, phantom, but I can just dismiss your post. By your standards it's pretty lame.
I'm not offended. I know it's lame. But I just can't shake this feeling, like it or not.

And I see I even forgot another one of my Cai=guilty reasons....

I would've scried her as the EW! Totally, without a doubt. She would've been on my list Night 1 and had I not gotten her I would've been anxious to add her to my den.
Gwath and phantom - very interesting. Now I have to go back and read Cailin's posts again. I think you guys have something there.
Ah, excellent. Hey Gwath- we have a member recruited for our Lynch Cailin Club! :)

Legate, my good friend and business partner, what do you think? Interested in joining?
STOP TRUSTING MY JUDGEMENT ON AGANZIR!!!!!!!!!!
See, I can kind of understand this coming from an Ordo. I've felt like that before, where I suspect someone and then people depend on me to be right and I begin to doubt myself and get to feeling really guilty about what if the person is actually innocent and I'm getting them lynched etc.

I trust Lommy.

And I'm liking Rikae more than ever. Calling the EW names. :D That's gutsy.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 08:27 AM

The confusing thing for me is, I'm also getting the stronger feeling that the phantom might be the EW. Don't know how I got there. There's something fishy about him telling me that if he was the EW he would kill me if I kept on insisting that he was. I don't get it.
Where is your sense of loyalty? Even if you do suspect that I am the EW, as my fiance you should be supportive of me and my hobbies. That is why I'd kill you- for betraying me.

Two people who are in love should be able to work through problems. They can't let a simple matter of their-spouse-is-a-murdering-embodiment-of-evil break them apart.

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 08:31 AM

the phantom: What's with the Lommy-Agan thing? Surely there's something to it?
Leggie: Not necessarily.
Just that? No elaboration? Trying to cover up your master and fellow slave?

Sorry, I can't help commenting on this: *grin* I love you, Lhuna. ;)I know. What I don't know is why you won't just marry me already. :p

(And we could have the first in-game marriage! Wouldn't that be fun?)

EDIT: cross-posted with - of all people - my fiance

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 08:41 AM

Where is your sense of loyalty? Even if you do suspect that I am the EW, as my fiance you should be supportive of me and my hobbies. That is why I'd kill you- for betraying me.

Two people who are in love should be able to work through problems. They can't let a simple matter of their-spouse-is-a-murdering-embodiment-of-evil break them apart.

Well, if you are the EW, why don't you curse me? I know they've all been saying that I hate being evil - and they speak the truth - but I thought that maybe you would want me to be with you... :Merisu:

mormegil

06-07-2008, 08:47 AM

But she also casts the vote that gets Aganzir killed, which means that either she is a wolf who decided to risk sacrificing her fellow in order to build her own reputation, an innocent who made some mistakes early on, or a wolf who got scried over somewhere in between Nerwen's death and Aganzir's death.

The Problem with this is it has the unfounded assumption that the wolves know each other. Normal rules don't apply here and those assumptions cannot be made. I prefer to think of the wolves not knowing each other and that means that, if Cailin is a wolf, then that vote means nothing. Personally, if I were a wolf, I would be going after the most suspicious people, it makes you look more credible and I wouldn't worry too much about killing one or two others.

Well this is where I have read to...there have been a lot of, ummmm useful posts and I'm glad that there's not a lot of drivel to sift through.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 08:52 AM

Well, if you are the EW, why don't you curse me? I know they've all been saying that I hate being evil - and they speak the truth - but I thought that maybe you would want me to be with you...
But I shouldn't have to curse you to gain your loyalty. Would you really want to be with someone that you had to put a spell on? Love and will domination don't go together. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I want to be loved out of free will.

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 08:57 AM

I've learned from a wise man named Kuruharan in a village of old that a personality change means you're hiding something. I don't know if this is a good thing or bad when applied to Rikae. But thus far I'm inclined to trust her. I hope the calling-the-EW-names tactic is not a way of hiding out in the open.

Anyway, Kath's reason for - or the lack of sense in - voting Mac worries me:
So, I don't like Mac here. He tried to fight against Lhuna but when she gave him nothing he gave up and went after someone else.
Mac certainly didn't try to fight against me, he simply asked me why I suspected him, because admittedly I didn't really explain it well. He didn't really suspect me, so he had no reason to go after me.

That's the sound of my alarm bell ringing a bit.

I don't know how much time I have, so I have to vote soon.

Right now I'm still unsure about Leggie, but I'm willing to give him one more Day.

Maybe the reason I suspected Cailin was that she felt odd to me yesterDay - but that was because she was a he then, and Eomer always feels furry. :p

The person I feel most like going after right now is sally. I find her distracting, since Day 1. She posts so much with little substance.

I'm not sure if it's worth voting for Lommy simply because I'm more convinced she's the EW than I am with my dear phantom.

I'll be back.

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 09:05 AM

But I shouldn't have to curse you to gain your loyalty. Would you really want to be with someone that you had to put a spell on? Love and will domination don't go together. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I want to be loved out of free will.
Really, phantom. As if anyone could resist loving you.

Nilpaurion Felagund

06-07-2008, 09:20 AM

++Rikae

I would have done a normal analysis like before, but it'll be like computing the trajectory of a missile when you can perfectly see its nose heading for you.

I sense there's something wrong with her toDAY, as I've said in 593 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=558055&postcount=593), and the way she ignores my suspicions, and . . . well, just pokes fun at serious theories--with Diamond that would have been normal; with her it feels unnatural. Something has changed in her.

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 09:20 AM

I really wish I had more time and was certain of it, or at least more people are posting right now, but neither is the case and so I must make my rather uncertain vote.

++satansaloser2005

She's the one I feel most comfortable voting for toDay. I completely agree with her name, though.

Good night, everyone.

EDIT: Darn it, Nilp, you spoiled what could have been my triple-posting action! :p

Rikae

06-07-2008, 09:24 AM

Anybody who trusts me is obviously evil, because I have never seen anyone so obviously evil as me. That means tp and Lhuna are both evil, evil, eeeeevil.

On another note: do we really want to lynch the EW? Wouldn't it serve our purposes better to actually get rid of somebody who's a direct threat to us? Well, I suppose at least by lynching the EW, we don't end up lynching somebody from our own side... but it is a bit of a wasted lynch, methinks.

EDIT: X'd with Nilp and Lhuna.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 09:33 AM

On another note: do we really want to lynch the EW? Wouldn't it serve our purposes better to actually get rid of somebody who's a direct threat to us? Well, I suppose at least by lynching the EW, we don't end up lynching somebody from our own side... but it is a bit of a wasted lynch, methinks.
Bingo!

That's precisely why we should lynch Cailin rather than me. ;)

Lhunardawen

06-07-2008, 09:33 AM

The Problem with this is it has the unfounded assumption that the wolves know each other. Normal rules don't apply here and those assumptions cannot be made. I prefer to think of the wolves not knowing each other and that means that, if Cailin is a wolf, then that vote means nothing. Personally, if I were a wolf, I would be going after the most suspicious people, it makes you look more credible and I wouldn't worry too much about killing one or two others.
Umm...I hope you're not trying to mislead us here, morm? Of course it's a valid assumption. It's a risky thing to do for the Evil Team, yes, but it's too much to say that we can't make any such assumption.

Isabellkya

06-07-2008, 09:40 AM

Okay, I'm here and I have to vote soon. :(
Unfortunately for today it is decent weather outside, which means I have to attend this family fishing outing - which means I may be back before deadline, but I don't want to risk saying my two cents and a vote in case I'm not. I'd debated with myself about holding it until later, since it is so early, but then I may not have time to skim whatever is new and has happened toDay. *hopefully it starts raining on the way there.*

I wouldn't mind voting for Diamond, I'd seen there was a lot of joking but had not really realized how much of it there was. Which joking is fine, but how far will that help in hunting for wolves? She wouldn't be my top voting choice, but I wouldn't mind it.

I've only skimmed the thing between Lommy and Aganzir, and vaguely remembering the game where it was an all-female wolf pack..Volo's game.. I remember (if correctly) Lommy and Aganzir were both wolves - and Lommy claimed gifted. So I wouldn't put it past either of them to be up to shenanigans together. I think most of us believe that the wolves and EW don't know each other. Could be very true, but I don't think the EW has to let ALL of the wolves know/communicate between themselves. If they'd picked two particularly sneaky schemers, s/he could've informed the two of each other and let them loose on the board.

In which case I would like to take a closer look at Lommy for that very reason, assuming I am remembering correctly.

I would like to take a closer look at Lalaith because I don't really remember much of what I've read about her, but from today it is almost kind of odd. I know you said it toDay atleast, but I can't find the blasted post now. Anyhow, it seems in your list/searching it was based on people whom are/could be wolves based on whether or not the EW thought them potentially the GW. Which strikes me as a very limited avenue of recruiting wolves. I don't know if you actually believe that the EW would be doing such a thing, but weird nonetheless.

Greenie, if I look bad based on activity or possibly lack-there-of; then you my dear sister-in-law must look far worse. :P

Cailin, I wouldn't mind voting for her based on some actions yesterday of shopping her vote around. Though it does bring a new light that Eomer is there in - well haunting spirit sometimes.

I think that is all for now. Will be back shortly with my vote.

X'd with nilp, Lhuna, Rikae, phantom, Lhuna

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 09:42 AM

I said before and I still think its true...a sensible EW would give her wolves a shortlist of lynchables. There's no danger in that, because even if a wolf were turned and spilt the beans to the village, well, the list might not still be valid as she might in that case scry a new wolf off the shortlist.

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 09:46 AM

thought them potentially the GW. Which strikes me as a very limited avenue of recruiting wolves. I don't know if you actually believe that the EW would be doing such a thing, but weird nonetheless.

Because the only way the EW can find the identity of the GW is by scrying. The GW on the other hand has two alternatives: her scrying or her Seer.
Of course, it could be that the EW just wants to sit back and wait to let the GW find her, but I don't think so - I think she would try to combine the two activities.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 09:49 AM

Cailin, I wouldn't mind voting for her based on some actions yesterday of shopping her vote around. Though it does bring a new light that Eomer is there in - well haunting spirit sometimes.
Come on Izzy. Vote Cailin please. *gives puppy dog eyes*

The fact that Eomer is already involved only makes her more dangerous. We must oust her while we can, for soon between the two of them they will dominate the village!

Isabellkya

06-07-2008, 10:03 AM

I could easily vote for you phantom, for trying to wile votes to your cause.

In any case,

++ Diamond

For reasons stated before, and I guess I had not been paying attention, she was on the Mac bandwagon yesterDay.

Ahh, I guess I had not really realized that Lalaith. Though I'm still not comfortable in thinking the EW is picking wolves based almost solely on their potential of being the GW. Nothing can be done about either until toMorrow - so very easily the EW could've picked some of her wolves based on something else/more than GW attributes.

Okay, I'm off now; *hopes for rain*

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 10:03 AM

Actually, thinking about what I said just now....the EW can of course also use wolf-kills to discover the GW. Perhaps that was what was going on, on Night Two (Volo could have been a potential wizard) but probably not on Night Three.

Gwathagor

06-07-2008, 10:06 AM

Ah, excellent. Hey Gwath- we have a member recruited for our Lynch Cailin Club! :)

Whoa there. We aren't friends yet, and I still suspect you as much as anyone else. Yesterday you gung-ho for helping Cailin string me up, but as soon as Cailin starts to look bad, you drop her and start ingratiating yourself with her opponents. Nice. Where's your sense of loyalty?

Gwathagor

06-07-2008, 10:24 AM

As much as I don't like Cailin (which is a lot), tp's campaign to get her lynched looks nearly as bad. It's really really scummy. "Legate, my good friend and business partner, what do you think? Interested in joining?" "Come on Izzy. Vote Cailin please. *gives puppy dog eyes*" "Bingo! That's precisely why we should lynch Cailin rather than me." He kind of reminds me of a corrupt politician who will say anything and befriend anybody in order to get votes he needs.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 10:32 AM

You're right, Gwath. I'm doing anything I can to get voters.

1) I really do think Cailin is suspicious.

2) If I'm wrong then the GW might want to look into me.

3) If I'm right the EW and the GW might want to look into me.

So this is sort of a great situation that I'm in. I really truly believe that I'm right about Cailin, but even if I'm wrong it increases my chances of getting a role. :smokin:

And as far as my cry for Legate's help- it's partially in character (he's my fellow sheep herder). But it's also because he is one of the ones I trust and I'd like to forge an alliance.

As far as buddying up to you, I was just happy to see someone else who seemed to share my suspicions.

What, are you feeling a bit like Lommy yesterday- not comfortable with people following your hunches?

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 10:33 AM

Alright, I'm here and alive (mostly). Before I go through toDay's posts, some thoughts from the previous Day:

Phantom, this time you were not in danger, and yet you still chose to hop on someone else's suspicions rather than your own. You even complained after someone else voted for me that they came after your vote. Why so afraid to be the first to vote for me? Why not cast a vote for who you really want to rather than hang around trying to find someone among the people who have already been voted? You're bandwaggoning. You're doing nothing but bandwaggoning. I do believe toDay is the first day that you've actually openly tried to get someone, and I doubt you'll be the first to vote her.

Edit: cross posted with phantom- the GW isn't going to scry if you're at risk of being scried by the EW in the same night, so give it up. Of course, if are a wolf, then you have nothing to fear by being scried by the GW.

Rikae

06-07-2008, 10:33 AM

Sorry tp, I know you aren't the EW. Besides, I'm not entirely opposed to lynching the EW, anyway.

Nilp, you're wrong. I am always like this. I don't think you've played with me before, have you? Those who have are so used to me acting strangely, I couldn't get lynched if I wanted to. Allow me to demonstrate:

++Rikae

EDIT: X'd with tp and Roa

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 10:39 AM

I find Rikae's post ironic in that it's responding to Nilp, who is famous for self-voting.

Rikae

06-07-2008, 10:44 AM

I find Rikae's post ironic in that it's responding to Nilp, who is famous for self-voting.

Ironic, but not at all suspicious, eh?
Last time I self-voted, I got lynched for it. Now there's nothing new under the sun.

That's ok. I'm the GW, anyhow - so you really couldn't lynch me.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 10:48 AM

Phantom, this time you were not in danger, and yet you still chose to hop on someone else's suspicions rather than your own. You even complained after someone else voted for me that they came after your vote. Why so afraid to be the first to vote for me?
I didn't really want to vote for you. I did suspect you a little bit, but never as much as others. I kind of want you to stick around. You're fun, and opinionated.

Does this mean you're feeling a bit better, btw?

Ah, and Rikae votes for herself. You're brilliant, mother! :D
I couldn't get lynched if I wanted to.
Don't say that. People might... erm... interpret it in a certain way.... ;)

Cailín

06-07-2008, 10:51 AM

Over Rikae, I can't understand. Let me digest this madness.

I just wanted to express frustration over what the phantom is doing. Nice to see that Gwath, who does suspect me, can see this with an open-mind. Phantom, I don't see what's so great about the situation you're in. Forget about what the wizards want to do for a moment: You can easily get lynched for such behaviour, and at this stage I wouldn't mind much.

Here, let me try:

Please everyone, vote for the phantom. I really, really think he's suspicious. Incidentally, be my friend. :rolleyes:

But you may just be saved by whatever the hel Rikae's doing.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 10:52 AM

That's ok. I'm the GW, anyhow - so you really couldn't lynch me.
Really? I never would've guessed. :p

Then who would you recommend that we lynch?

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 10:54 AM

Hmmm...very odd. I am ready to believe that Rikae is telling the truth, in that she would be a likely wizard.

But why would the GW declare now? She is a team member down, and as I've proved earlier, the EW hasn't found her yet.

Rikae

06-07-2008, 10:54 AM

Then who would you recommend that we lynch?

You! :p

Rikae

06-07-2008, 10:56 AM

No, seriously, though, lynch Legate. He's evil.

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 10:56 AM

Okay, it has a little bit to do with him. But only because a lot of what I said about the EW was in response to him. I see that a lot of people just breezed by those posts because they didn't want to get involved. So, as I survive another day without being killed or wolf-ified, I'm going to recompile all that I said. Please read it.

Or the EW could have counted on people assuming that no one obvious would be picked and so picked the most obvious. We can't know for certain, and so we shouldn't rule anyone out.

The reason the EW may not want the wolves to know her identity is because if the GW scries a werewolf, that wolf imediately changes sides and becomes an ordo. More importantly, an ordo who knows the identity of the EW and can share it with the village. Each wizard wants to protect their own identity sso that they can challenge the other wizard on their own terms, ie. when the conditions are in favor of their respective teams. So the EW is hesitant to the wolves any information.

Every EW will work differently. The EW could have picked someone who was high profile as a smokescreen to hide behind. Look, the second we start ruling people out, those are the people the EW will pick. Trust me on that one- I was there. Let's not make the choice any easier for her. Trying to avoid the GW was only one of concerns, and it was more from the fact that I'd be discovered by him if we scried the same person at the same time. He was theonly one who could stop me, and so he was the only one I feared. That is no longer a problem.

When I was the EW, I picked wolves from all over. I had high profile wolves, I had under-the-radar wolves, I had wolves that I planned to sacrifice. I'm trying to share what I learned from my experience with the village. Never rule anyone out as a potential wolf, and no one except the GW is a known innocent until they're dead.

Also, on the point of the deaths of Volo and Kitanna- it is more likely that they were killed because the EW believed them likely scries by the GW, and she picked correctly for one of them. I hope for the sake of our gifteds that the GW is scattering his choices around abit, and not sticking to players of certain qualities.

You may be right in that the EW would not want to risk it. But I was the EW, and I did risk it. Heck, I was down a wolf (due to the double pick fiasco) and I still did it. So your definite "NO" is definitely not definite.

Also, I don't know why you are so certain that the EW gave her wolves possible lynch candidates. I never did, and my wolves did just fine. The GW did something like that for the entire village, but only after his role had been revealed. In fact, I even encouraged my wolves to lynch as they liked. Someone acts suspiciously? Lynch them! It makes the wolves harder to trace because they aren't having to lie about their suspicions.

That's very nice, it's true. However, there are more options than that available. The EW may be willing to give up that extra kill for one Night in order to act out another more sinister plan. Not all of us think that simply, and it's folly to suggest that the current EW must think that way.

It's about making assumptions about the EW's behavior which have little backing other than your own preference, which the EW may or may not share. So, you can't expect us to rule out this possibility just because you wouldn't do it.

And how do you know what the EW believes is necessary?

Again, why are you so certain of this? What in past history has led you to believe that this is the way the EW will operate? There's no logic or proof behind this theory, ...., and it can be dangerous if everyone assumes it's true if it's not. We could be led on a wild goose chase trying to figure out a supposed short list of lynchees that doesn't really exist.

First, phantom, you're statistics aren't even logical, because you leave out : a. the hunter, b. the ranger, and c. the EW herself, who might change a gifted into an ordo instead of an ordo into a gifted, thus keeping the wolf population down.

Second, those who think losing the seer isn't such a bad thing, consider what would happen if it was Day 4 and the EW knew the GW's identity. She could then challenge and take the GW out before she had a chance to replace the seer, and the village would be in trouble. Who was saying that again?

The EW:

In the last game, I took care to avoid people that might be scried by the GW, not so much because I was worried about losing a wolf (until morm accidentally found me out) but because if we scried the same people on the same Night, my identity would be revealed. That is not the case this game. If the wolf doesn't know anything, then losing him to the GW may not be so bad. However, if the GW and the EW scry the same person in a Night, that person dies. This is a third kill for the evil team! The GW is the one who will be avoiding scrying possible EW picks in order to keep innocents from dying. (Which, by the way, is why I believe the phantom will not be picked by the GW.)

So lose the mentality that the EW won't pick likely GW scries for scrying. It will only mislead you into to looking away from those that could be wolves. Until we know who the EW is, we have no way of knowing who they might have picked. YOU CANNOT RULE ANYONE OUT FOR THE REASON THAT THEY ARE UNLIKELY PICKS. The EW may have very well counted on that thinking. Until we know who the EW is, you must look at everyone with equal possibility.

Edit: cross posted.... Oh my

the phantom

06-07-2008, 10:56 AM

You!:p
Whatever. :p

You've dreamed about me already, haven't you?

I'm quite insulted that you dreamed me rather than scried me though. I would've made an excellent replacement Seer!

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 10:59 AM

Rikae, I'm assuming that your seer dreamed him?

And phantom wasn't evil when your seer dreamed him? When was that?

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 11:01 AM

And the first him I'm reffering to is Legate.

Is he a wolf or the EW?

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 11:01 AM

I'm not at all impressed by EoCailin's defense.

Yes, I brought up the idea of Eomer voting having something to do with... anything... but I don't like how readily EoCailin has jumped on this as the answer to everything. Frankly, I brought it mainly to see how Cailin responded.

She could even be lying. But even if it is "the truth" then, duh, if Cailin is evil Eomer most certainly is. So we've go double the evil posting under one name. Two evil brains! It's horrifying. Lynching Cailin is practically a double lynch as you exorcise the evil ghost of Eomer, too.

Anyway, the main reason I'm not convinced by the idea that Eomer posting helps explain away any inconsistency is this (which happened in the same day) --

It doesn't answer, in my mind, why Cailin threatened to get me lynched, but then abruptly dropped her case when I told her flat out that being guilty of starting a lynch campaign against an innocent should prove very bad for her if she was successful, especially in light of Nerwen's death.

Instead of continuing to suspect me, she just went "Diamond's dying to be picked :p" (sorry not a direct quote, I'm freestyling here) and pretty much dropped her "case."

Why?

Because she (HE?) knew I was right. She knew that going with the flow was better than starting a campaign against an innocent.

I don't like smug threats to get someone lynched. That's soooooooo wolvish. Innocents don't feel the sort of power that a wolf does, ergo don't go around saying "Don't complain to me when I get you lynched haha."

Rikae

06-07-2008, 11:02 AM

I didn't say anybody dreamed tp at all.

EDIT: X'd with Roa and Diamond. Legate is a wolf.

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 11:02 AM

Ah, there you are, Roa. I wanted to ask you stuff about EWing.

EW gave her wolves possible lynch candidates. I never did, and my wolves did just fine
Ok, that's interesting. I would assume that an EW would guide her wolves.

And - did you really not use your scries to try to find the GW? Or did you find him so early that you could devote your time just to making wolves? As I seem to remember I think the latter scenario was the case, that your wolves found Gurthang pretty early on.

Oh and another question - can we trust anything you tell us now? ;)

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 11:03 AM

And I want to know from Rikae, if you really are the GW, why in heaven's name have you declared now?

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 11:04 AM

Ironic, but not at all suspicious, eh?
Last time I self-voted, I got lynched for it. Now there's nothing new under the sun.

That's ok. I'm the GW, anyhow - so you really couldn't lynch me.

Ha. I knew you were a Wizard.

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 11:05 AM

I didn't say anybody dreamed tp at all.

EDIT: X'd with Roa and Diamond. Legate is a wolf.

But you said you knew he wasn't the EW. How else could you know for certain?

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 11:06 AM

But you said you knew he wasn't the EW. How else could you know for certain?

Possibly because she knows who the EW is?

Are we going to get a duel today?

Rikae

06-07-2008, 11:08 AM

No duel allowed until toMorrow - everything will be revealed then.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 11:08 AM

The voting-

Nilp for Rikae
Lhuna for Sally
Izzy for Di
Rikae for Rikae
And - did you really not use your scries to try to find the GW?
No, the EW won't be looking for the GW with scries. The EW wants to make WWs with scries. That's it.

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 11:09 AM

Ah, right.

Yeah, I just ran to read the rules.

Day 4 reveals all.

Rikae

06-07-2008, 11:09 AM

Also - sorry to leave you folks in the lurch like this, but I have to go out and won't be back until shortly before DL. You know what to do.

Lalaith

06-07-2008, 11:12 AM

You know what to do.
Rikae, you haven't answered my question. And unless you do, I won't know what to do. I just think its weird that the GW would reveal now and I want to know the reason. Sorry.

the phantom

06-07-2008, 11:12 AM

You know what to do.
Before I do anything for you, mother, I want to know exactly what you think about everyone in the village.

Every last person.

Especially me. ;)

the phantom

06-07-2008, 11:14 AM

And tell us if you've found the EW.

And tell us exactly who the next Ranger will be please. So we know who to trust, ya know.

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 11:15 AM

Ok, that's interesting. I would assume that an EW would guide her wolves.

I picked highly intelligent and very capable wolves that could survive without my help. I also picked wolves that I could easily sacrifice to draw attention away from me if needed. The only "guidance" I gave them was telling them who to kill every night. Morm and Eomer were two of my wolves. They can verify that. Once morm discovered who I was (by accident) then I became more involved in what he was doing. And I actually told him to keep on after Eomer.

And - did you really not use your scries to try to find the GW? Or did you find him so early that you could devote your time just to making wolves? As I seem to remember I think the latter scenario was the case, that your wolves found Gurthang pretty early on.

I never tried to use my scries to find the GW. I used my wolves and attacked people I thought might be the GW. That's how I found him, by the way. I just focused my scryings on making the ultimate werewolf team.

Oh and another question - can we trust anything you tell us now? ;)

Probably not now, but that's why I quoted myself. Those are direct quotes with everything I've said about the EW. You can check to see for yourself if I've changed my tune anywhere down the line.

Or I said yesterDay, you can lynch me, and then you'll know for certain that I'm on the up and up. If Rikae is telling the truth, though, it will be up to you- lynch a definite baddie, or lynch a possible baddie, but at least you'll know if you can trust her or not. Of course, if I'm not a wolf toDay, I may be toMorrow, and you won't know for certain.

Edit: Cross posted. Rikae, you can't just expect to lynch Legate with out telling us who he is. And Lal's got a point- why reveal now?

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 11:16 AM

And tell us if you've found the EW.

Yeah, really. If you know that phantom isn't the Evil Wizard, but you haven't dreamt of him or scried him, then that means you must know who the EW actually it.

I don't see a reason to hide the EW's identity from us, I mean, there can be no duel before tomorrow but that doesn't mean you can't tell us who the EW is? Or am I misinterpreting the rules again? Nogrod?

Roa_Aoife

06-07-2008, 11:18 AM

Legate, have you been killing off our family? You are SO grounded.

Diamond18

06-07-2008, 11:19 AM

Okay, I knew we've had big exciting wizard reveal, but I have to say this doesn't really affect my last post about Cailin.

I still don't trust her as far as I can throw her, and think she could very well be a wolf.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-07-2008, 11:19 AM

I'm back, I'm back, I'm pink, I'm pink, ... I'm in-vi-si-ble! (Right! All of us are! Oh, how fitting. I should praise myself.)

First, one thing about our... sorry: about MY Sally. :D Because her posts are where I finished last time. I know she is usually chatty a lot, out-of-game-chatty a lot, but it makes me wonder, ooohyeahyeah, it really makes me wonder, tum-dum-tu-tu-tum-tum (okay, I'm stopping that already, what's up with me? :sillyness: ), if she isn't overdoing it a little in this particular game. Although this game is particularly suitable for that, but still, I am starting to wond... ahem, if there isn't the intention of hide behind lots of banter in it. Although it's, like, 25% probable from my point of view that it could be so. So not much. But watchin' it.

All right... what next.

Lalaith! She is actually playing? I said something about submarines yesterDay, but if there are any which are really, really deep, then it is her. Unbelievable. I knew she was a subject to vote and such, but if I try to remember anything about her from this game, I don't recall anything.
I am finding Lommy rather different in this game and it worries me. At one point she said that either Roa or phantom must be evil, then she wastes time pondering the point that wolves wouldn't necessarily want to kill gifteds at night, just wait until after the duel. (Obviously not the case: when her gifteds are killed, the GW has to scry to replace them, rather than scry for EW and wolves, and that is clearly to the evil team's benefit. The shortlist for a gifted scry would be a different one to the shortlist for a search-the-baddie scry.) Anyway, what I'm really saying is that the Lommy I've played with (always, coincidentally, an innocent Lommy) is too smart to be saying stuff like this so it worries me.
I don't think that's necessarily true. What I said before, my opinion is that Lommy is normal Lommy (this is, among other things, which led me to believe after their arguments with Agan yesterDay that one is not innocent, although they both seemed so, and I went with Agan), only maybe toDay she's different a little, or seems so. But the most troubling about Lommy is that she is so... silent, unlike her usual self. She posts less than usual, I think. Or I may just think so. I don't know.

But she also casts the vote that gets Aganzir killed, which means that either she is a wolf who decided to risk sacrificing her fellow in order to build her own reputation, an innocent who made some mistakes early on, or a wolf who got scried over somewhere in between Nerwen's death and Aganzir's death.
Or a wolf who did not know that Agan is a wolf because the EW did not tell her. Erm... a slip, Gwathy? Do the wolves know each other and you know because you are one?

And then she holds her vote later on Day 2 and starts shopping around to lynch someone else. Did she know that Agan was a WW? It's possible. But either way, it just doesn't seem like a Cailin move. I'd come out and ask "Hey, you guys wanna lynch so-and-so instead?" but it didn't feel right coming from Cailin.

And then Mac reveals, and she says "I suppose I should trust Mac", but then waits till 6:00 to vote. What was she waiting on? It takes less than 10 seconds to post "+ + Aganzir". You'd think she would've been in an outright panic if she was truly innocent! "Oh great! Mac's the Ranger! It's up to me! The deadline is almost here!"
That's a good point.

2) Lommy, unless turned last night, has got to be innocent.
That's very radically formulated, but it technically sums what I think as well (well, I already said above).

Hmm. TP is acting so... friendly, so to say, rationally (hm, if it's the right word in his case :-P - but let's say, I can identify with a lot he says - and I mean mainly: he is not building up - or seems not to build - baseless cases. He seems to be careful with this), I would think him innocentish. If he is cleverly manipulating us, is another thing, but right now my scales weigh him more to the innocent side.

Brinniel seems to make sense (post 652, for example) and I am letting my doubt off of her more, also after what Aganzir said yesterDay in her parting words (I said before that I am inclined to think she named innocent people. Besides, concerning Brinn and me, she only repeated what she said before about the two of us, so it was not a momentarily made-up thing).

I'm in agreement that Cailin, in light of Gwath's analysis (thanks by the way, Gwath), looks pretty bad. As does Legate still.
You know what - may I ask you to sum up in short the reasons why you currently suspect me?

Wonderful - I write the above line and just after that Di posts:

Speaking of that, I did look through all of Shasta's posts. He doesn't feel overtly suspicious to me, though he did seem to cling to only two suspects for a long time (Legate and phantom) before seeing fit to analyze McCaber and Gwath.

Because that's exactly what I've been thinking, so that's why I decided to ask.

I'll let you lynch me if you guess which posts were Eomer's and which were mine.
Wonderful. So we have a schizophrenic villager here. Who is supposed to make a picture out of it, then?

(reading on)
I like Brinniel better and better.

I´ve continued to think about this order of wolves created business.
Here´s what I´ve come up with.
a. The EW wants to create new wolves, but at the same time she is trying to find the GW. So after Night One, when she creates her basic team, her picks are likely to be players she thinks might be the GW.
Really? I think it's not EW's problem to find the GW. It's GW's problem to find the EW. As long as EW can, she keeps multiplying her wolves, so that in the moment when she is at last scried by the EW, she dies, but leaves behind a horde unbeatable. What you say does not make much sense to me.

That's similar to what I was about to say. I mean, of course Legate has to think everyone mentioned there is probably innocent when he's among them. Aganzir is too clever of a wolf to purposely give off a list of all innocents.
Well, the question is, why not. She may think we will think that she will think... you get the idea. (Or she may not think anything and just post, especially in the case you mention, when she wouldn't know who's a wolf and who not [though she would have her guesses about that, if nothing else]. She may also do so just to leave us some confusion to bother about as a parting present.)

Just that? No elaboration? Trying to cover up your master and fellow slave?
No elaboration was there, really? I have to look back on it when it was written; but I think it was merely a statement: not necessarily. But I am pretty sure I wrote something more about it. Or at least I was thinking it. Hm...

I've only skimmed the thing between Lommy and Aganzir, and vaguely remembering the game where it was an all-female wolf pack..Volo's game.. I remember (if correctly) Lommy and Aganzir were both wolves - and Lommy claimed gifted. So I wouldn't put it past either of them to be up to shenanigans together. I think most of us believe that the wolves and EW don't know each other. Could be very true, but I don't think the EW has to let ALL of the wolves know/communicate between themselves. If they'd picked two particularly sneaky schemers, s/he could've informed the two of each other and let them loose on the board.
What? That they will be sharingans together?
Okay, okay, nothing. Well, it's a good point about the EW letting only some wolves know each other, and I have been thinking about it as a possibility before too (I think I even said it somewhere). However, I am still closer to the idea that if Lommy is not innocent right now, then she was before and was scried into a wolf this Night.

Isabell actually seems to make lot of sense and seems quite genuine. See, Izzy, now that you post more, or longer posts at least, I can get some reading of you (and it's quite positive this far).

Actually, thinking about what I said just now....the EW can of course also use wolf-kills to discover the GW. Perhaps that was what was going on, on Night Two (Volo could have been a potential wizard) but probably not on Night Three.
Again - I think you are complicating it. As soon as the wizards are revealed, they may challenge each other and at the moment they die. There's no point for the EW to waste her scries on the GW, when she can have unlimited brood of minions.

And as far as my cry for Legate's help- it's partially in character (he's my fellow sheep herder). But it's also because he is one of the ones I trust and I'd like to forge an alliance.
Yes, yes, yes... thank you, fellow business partner ;) well I would need to look at her more closely, there has been something before that bothered me, but I haven't focused on her specifically. Hopefully later I could look at her closer (there's the problem that she's a schizo, which kind of bothers me).

And let me finish with a sigh:

Nilp, you're wrong. I am always like this. I don't think you've played with me before, have you? Those who have are so used to me acting strangely, I couldn't get lynched if I wanted to. Allow me to demonstrate:

+ + Rikae

What the heck is THAT.

Now I'm finished, hope to stay on track and will be around somewhat from now on, or should be (between doing something else... some latin is trying to blink at me from the left side).

EDIT: x-ed since Rikae's self vote. what I saw when skimming through it doesn't make me feel good about Raikiri... sorry, Rikae; at all.