Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Nogrod]

Prologue


The wind died suddenly. The small birds that had been chirping their songs fell silent in a hush. All the little creatures of the dark forest froze to where they were. It was the wolf’s hour as the people of old called it, the moment just before the new dawn broke the dominion of the night.

But it was not yet the time for the sun to come. Something was not right and all the creatures of the forest sensed it. There was tension in the forest around the little village. Every creature held their breath.

Something was moving in this hour, in the dead of the night, out of place. It was not a shadow but rather an un-light or lightlessness that crept through the woods towards the palisade wall of the village.

Only the blackbird continued its mellow but dark melody for a short while and then glided quietly down to the branches of an old spruce near the rugged footpath leading to the village.

“So you’ve come at last?” the blackbird queried softly singing towards the oncoming form composed from the absence of light. “Such a beautiful hour… quite perfect!” it sang with almost joyful a tune. The forest and its creatures held their breath.

Hush!

It was not so much a voice but a thought that just entered the blackbird’s mind. It fell silent slightly embarrassed by the revelation of its own zeal to the strange being’s arrival.

You’ve chosen me a body to take over, a body whose soul is to be dispatched to the eternal discord outside Eä’s harmony?

The blackbird gave a short agreeing whistle but decided not to press its enthusiasm this time.

We’ve things to do, blackbird. And it’s coming. Right behind me. Hurry now, you singer of the sad songs.

The blackbird let out a low coo and flew off the branch. “Follow me!” it whistled into the dark night and flew ahead into the village.



The lightless had been right. Even if it was not yet the time for the dawn to arrive, the rays of light came shining through the leaves in the forest, following the path of the absence of light. A slight wind broke it into kaleidoscopic shards and crystals filling the whole forest with vibrating light.

The small birds, ready to launch their songs to the coming dawn, held their voices. All the little creatures that had just grown confident it was all clear again took back the step they had been ready to make and fell low. The forest was still and immovable.

A little swallow flew into the brightest ray of light creeping towards the village and went to and fro frantically in the glow of the light.

“I saw it! Just a moment ago!” the swallow chirped in the silent forest as it twisted and turned in the light. “I’ve chosen you a pure soul to gain the bliss of the everafter! Please hurry! The sun is coming!”

Suddenly the swallow realised the light was already entering the village through the slits and cracks in the palisade wall. “Wait! Wait! I’ll show you!” It hurried over the branches and followed the light into the village.



The sun came forwards right after the strange light had disappeared, as if having been trailing it. The forest burst into the usual swarm and song accompanying the coming dawn.

In an hour the people would wake up to a world changed to them.



~*~

To discuss this game go here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=14848).

[Nogrod]

+ A Little Green, a fortune-teller - folklorist - herb-grower - unofficial therapist, advisor and midwife, most presumably a witch, the gammer (the eccentric mother of Lommy & Mac)
+ Shastanis Althreduin, astrologer/fortune teller, gaffer (Greenie's husband, father of Lommy & Mac)
+ Isabellkaya, a gammer who loves asparagus and throwing knives (Shasta's sister)

+ Thinlómien, a bird tamer, adult (married to Nilp, Macalaure's sister)
+ Nilpaurion Felagund, a house-bound sandwich-maker, adult (married to Lommy)
+ Eönwë, Rikae's unofficial helper-person, 22 (their son)
+ Kath, tavern owner, 20 (their daughter, Brinn's life partner)
+ Satansaloser 2005, Lommy's assistant, 17 (their daughter)

+ Macalaure, apple farmer, adult (married to Rikae, Lommy's brother)
+ Rikae, a lumberjack, adult (married to Macalaure, Roa's sister)
+ the phantom, sheep herder with Legate, 21 (their adopted son, Di's brother)
+ Diamond 18, dissolute, 11 (phantom's pre-teen littlesister)

+ Cailín, guinea pig breeder, adult (Nilp's sister)
(Eomer of the Rohirrim, Cailín's husband, Lhuna's father)
+ Lhunardawen, healer's apprentice, 20 (Cailín's daughter, good twin of Durelin)
+ Durelin, poisoner 20 (Lhuna's evil twin, daughter of Cailín)


+ Volo, the guy who knows everything about staying alive, the gaffer (Father of Nogrod, morm, Nerwen and Lalaith)

(Nogrod, the judge, Roa's husband, father of Legate, Brinn and Kit)
+ Roa_Aoife, school teacher, adult (mother of Legate, Brinn and Kit, wife of Nogrod, sister of Rikae)
+ Brinniel, Greenie's apprentice, 21 (Legate's sister and Kitanna's twin sister, Kath's life partner)
+ Kitanna, a tavern wench 21 (Legate's sister and Brinn's twin sister)
+ Legate of Amon Lanc, sheep herder with tp, 19 (brother of Brinn & Kit, Sally's boyfriend, Agan's ex-bf)

+ Nerwen, the healer, adult (sister of Lalaith, Volo's daughter)

+ Lalaith, chocolate maker, adult (sister of Nerwen, mother of Aganzir, Volo's daughter)
+ Aganzir, the little match girl, 15 (Lalaith's daughter, dates McCaber)
+ The Ka, a dog whipper (a fatherless and ageless little child of Lalaith)

+ Mormegil, adult (son of Volo, husband of Celuien, father of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Celuien, a candle maker, adult (wife of morm, mother of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Gwathagor, a highwayman, 20 (McCaber's big brother)
+ McCaber, a henchman, 18 (Gwath's little brother, dates Aganzir)

[Nogrod]

Where Dueling Wizards Werewolf differs from a normal WW-game?

Like in all games the villagers try to lynch the wolves to win (they lose if the number of villagers is equal to the number of wolves) and try to avoid lynching their gifteds. But in DW the villagers should also try to avoid lynching their Good Wizard (GW) for in that occasion the GW is not killed but is revealed to all and is thence known to the Evil Wizard (EW) as well.

Lynching the wolves is the main work of the villagers but getting the EW to the gallows would be great indeed as then her role would be revealed and that would ease the GW’s task greatly.

In DW game the village is quite big and that will have a few consequencies. In the first Days there will be a load of information and that is quite intentional. In a large village not everyone hears every story told or point made. Also the death-rate will probably be quite high at least in the first Days. When there are 4 wolves or more they will have 2 kills / Night.

Normal “wolf-hunting logic” may not help the villagers in every case as the wolves are the minions of the EW and she can give them tasks / lead them to act in ways a normal wolf-team would not! So the villagers should remember there is the EW back there and she can override any decision the wolves themselves suggest. Also the wolves may not know the identity of each other – or that of the EW. It is up to the EW to decide how much information she gives to her minions. The same goes for the GW.

Some people may change their status during the game due to the wizards scrying people during the Nights. The rules are as follows:
- If the EW scries an innocent she turns into a wolf.
- If the EW scries a gifted she becomes an ordo (is ripped from her gift).
- If the GW scries a wolf she becomes an ordo.
- If the GW scries an ordo she becomes a gifted (if there is room in the “roster” of max. 3 gifteds at a time - when the GW's roster is full she can use her turn in a seer-like fashion)
- If either wizard scries the other wizard the identity of the one scried is revealed to her but nothing else happens.
- If both wizards scry the same person that person will die because of the high amount of magic.


General rules on traditional basic issues…

There will be no retractable votes.

There will be no double-lynches.

In case of a tie the one gaining the highest vote first will die.

Voting is made with the usual formula, with two pluses, bolded and on a separate line:

++ Nogrod

This is especially important in this game as there will be a flood of posts the first Days and the votes need to stick out from other posting!

If someone doesn't post on two Days in a row there will be a modfire removing that player from the game in a shameful manner.

Those dead should not discuss any aspect of the game in any public forum. The time for discussion is after the game ends. Also especially in this game it would be important there not being communication between the dead and the living concerning the game – at least in a way that would give the living player information she couldn’t otherwise have! The dead may rant and laugh privately as much as they wish.

The deadline is 11PM GMT.

The game starts with a Night-phase on June the 1st.

[Nogrod]

NB. A submod is mentioned here in many places. There is not yet a submod but after a Day or two has passed in the game we hopefully have one. Her/his name will be announced then and instructions to wolves & gifteds will be sent accordingly via PM.


THE WOLVES.

You will be handpicked by the EW and informed of your role by the mod (or submod). The first Night's scry is different as the EW will send the mod a list from which you will be randomly selected so as not to overlap with the gifteds.

Your task is generally to avoid being lynched by Day - or whatever your wizard tells you to do: to vote for someone she wishes, to go after someone, to protect someone as well as you can, to act suicidally... whatever. You are her minions.

During the Nights you will kill innocent villagers according to the deliberations of the EW.

By default you will not know the identity of your master but you can send your suggestions of who to kill (and why) or whatever you have in mind to your wizard anytime during the Nights via the mod (or the submod). In the end the EW may override your suggestions though.

If the wizard reveals her identity to you you can PM her directly. If she reveals you the identity of your fellow-wolf (or wolves) and allows it you may also PM to them during the Nights. But that's up to your wizard to decide.

You are not allowed to make any PMs or other contacts with your mates or wizard during the Days!

If / when the EW is dead you will be informed who your packmates are and the game returns to a normal werewolf-game where all the wolves are able to PM during the Nights.


THE GIFTEDS.

You will be handpicked by the GW and informed of your role by the mod (or submod). The first Night's scry is different as the GW will send the mod a list from which you will be randomly selected so as not to overlap with the wolves.

Your task is generally to aid the villagers in the fight against the EW and her hordes - or whatever your wizard tells you exactly to do: to vote for someone she wishes, to go after someone, to protect someone as well as you can, to play in a subdued mode... whatever. You are her minions.

During the Nights you will perform your duties according to the decision made by the GW.

By default you will not know the identity of your master but you can send your suggestions of who to protect / hunt / dream (and why) or whatever you have in mind to your wizard anytime during the Nights via the mod (or the submod). In the end the GW may override your suggestions though.

If the wizard reveals her identity to you you can PM her directly. If she reveals you the identity of your fellow-gifted (or gifteds) and allows it you may also PM to them during the Nights. But that's up to your wizard to decide.

You are not allowed to make any PMs or other contacts with your fellows or wizard during the Days!

If / when the GW is dead the game returns to a normal werewolf-game where you will have to survive and help the village with the knowledge you have gained so far.

HUNTER: The one you hunt will die when you die whatever her role. The GW will make the final decision of who to hunt but feel free to give her your ideas. Following from that you can only change the one you hunt during the Night with GW's blessing / orders.

RANGER: The one you protect will not die if the wolves attack her during the Night. The GW will make the final decision about whom to protect but feel free to give her your ideas. You can't protect the same person two Nights in a row.

SEER: The role of the one you dream will be revealed both to you and the GW. The GW will make the final decision about your dream but feel free to give her your ideas.


General points affecting both special-teams.

Your wizard needs to send her final decisions concerning the Nightly kills, protections, hunts & dreams to the mod (or submod) one hour before the deadline (10PM GMT). If you want your points to affect the judgement of your wizard do it early enough.

I will send my e-mail address via PM to all people with a role in case my own PM account gets full in the first days of the game. I try to keep it clean though. I will be sleeping something like from midnight GMT to 6-7 AM GMT. When a submod is chosen hopefully also those hours will be "open" for communication.

[Nogrod]

You rule supreme over your minions as long as you live. In a way it's your game. It's called duelling Wizards werewolf for that reason. It is a fight between you two - and how well you manage to arm your minions to the final battle after you're gone.


Wizard challenge.

You can not be lynched or killed at Night either by wolves or the hunter. The only way you will die is when the other wizard challenges you to a duel. The wizard knowing the identity of the other one can challenge her enemy any Day from Day4 onwards. The challenge should be made during Daytime! Feel free to be as poetic with your challenge in the game-thread but please do also PM me about your intention so that there is no ambivalence on the matter.

The duel will always lead to the death of both wizards!


Scries and kills.

The number of wolves the EW can scry will be unlimited.

The number of gifteds the GW can scry is three eg. one each. One that dies can be replaced on the next Night. If the GW has a full "roster" she can use her scries as "seer-dreams" trying to locate the EW.

Four wolves will get two kills / Night.


Order of Nightly activities

1. Wizards make their scries.
2. Affected players & wizards are informed of the results.
3. Seer dreams, ranger protects & hunter hunts.
4. Wolves kill. If there are two kills the EW will define which is the order of the kills.

NB. In order to be efficient it is highly recommended that the wizards give me their scries as soon as possible after a Day ends.

The wizards should produce me a list of their choices for dreaming, protecting, hunting / killing at least an hour before the next Day starts. Even earlier notification will be very much appreciated. In case there will be problems I will send both wizards my mobile number so you can also send me information via an SMS text message.

The wizards may listen to their minions or not. Whatever is the wizards choice she should be the one sending me the final list of Nightly affairs - unless I have been informed otherwise in advance.

Communication

The wizards and the minions are only able to communicate to each other during the Nights - within the limits the wizards give their minions.

Some general issues.

- You will decide if you wish to reveal your identity to one or more of your minions. In that case you can PM them directly without going via the mod(s) and they will gain a right to PM you back - during the Nights that is. All communication that doesn't happen in the actual game thread is limited to the Nights for both sides. That right to PM is naturally stripped away from you both if the minion is turned to an ordinary villager.

You will decide whether some or all of your minions know each other's identities. Also it's up to you if you wish to grant them the ability to PM straight to one another or not during the Nights.

You can be honest with your minions or lie to them. Just what you see fit.

- If both the EW and the GW scry the same person that one person dies for being made to suffer too much magic the same Night. The wizards however do not learn the identity of the other one via that.

- The wizards will have all the knowledge as soon as it is possible to send it to them during the Nights. It also means that even if the seer is killed during the Night her dream will be revealed to the GW as the dream "happens" before the wolves go on with their bussiness...

- There is no "action" on Night1: no wolf kills, no dreams, no protections (the hunter should send me her hunt though as that will take place if she dies lynched on Day1). Only discussions within the limits the wizards allow it.

[Nogrod]

Like every once in a while Judge Nogrod had been unable to sleep any longer after waking up before the daybreak and was sitting on the steps in front of the porch of the courthouse smoking his pipe. He enjoyed these moments before the morning broke when it was quiet and peaceful. But this night there was something strange in the air. It was somehow even too quiet.

Suddenly a blackbird broke the silence entering the village trailed by an unimaginable shapeless darkness Nogrod had ever seen. He wasn’t sure whether he should believe his eyes or not but still felt like nailed to the step he was sitting on. He didn’t even dare to breathe until the odd duo had passed him.

He sighed from relief realising they had either not seen him or had just ignored his presence. But it seemed not to be over. A strange light was trailing the darkness accompanied by a swallow rushing here and there. They too entered the village-square and disappeared as fast as the previous creatures.

Nogrod was trying to perceive where they had gone when the birds suddenly came back both flying in and out of the houses of the village trying every now and then to hamper the other’s entry into one when their trajectories met.

But then there was another sound. It was the sound of approaching footsteps. And clearly the one to whom those footsteps belonged was trying to be as silent as possible. Nogrod glanced around him to see whether there was anything he could use as a weapon if that was needed. He bent carefully down to reach under the steps where he remembered there was a poker. After some fumbling he got hold of it and then waited for the footsteps to come closer hoping that who- or whatever it was hadn’t heard him.

The footsteps stopped to the other side of the square but after a while started creeping carefully towards the well in the centre of the square. Nogrod had a bad feeling that his presence had not gone unnoticed as the sneaking pair of feet were coming steadily towards him. He rose up quietly and pressed the poker tighter in his hand starting quietly towards the well bowing down at the same time.

The blackbird suddenly emerged from inside one of the houses and flew down settling itself on top of the well. It glanced at both sides and then started whistling jumping from one end of the well to the other while it sang. Nogrod realised to his astonishment that he understood what it was singing (http://audio.xanga.com/Nogrod/5d0692293442/audio.html).

*~*

A villager woke up realising that she was covered all over by a darkness deeper than the deepest night. She felt like moving, moving outside the space and time into ever deepening darkness. She was losing her memories. She was losing her identity. She was becoming pure feeling of here and now. The anguish of a perspectiveless present started to grow inside her soon to be the only thing she was conscious of. It was becoming the only thing she was. She lived in a void of anticipation she couldn’t anticipate, in an absence of meaning and sense with no past or future.

*~*

Another villager woke up to a light she had never experienced before. It was cold and brighter than any sunlight ever. There was a serenity and calmness there which overtook her mind and carried her away from the toil and trouble of this world. There was an odd sadness in her but it was wiped away with the peace and beauty of the moment. She felt like having become whole in a way never before: like all her past, present and future had suddenly got a meaning. And then there was the music: the harmonies which overpowered her soul and carried her to the bliss of truth, beauty and goodness in an undivided totality.

*~*

It was night still even if it wasn't a night anymore.



Night1 has begun.

The wizards can do what they wish and their minions according to any rulings your wizards have allowed you. All PM's should go via me unless it has been specifically ruled otherwise.

[Nogrod]

Here is a map of the village.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/NogrodU/p.jpg

[Nogrod]

Eomer had been sleeping lightly the whole night and woke up well before the daybreak. He turned around and around trying to find a more comfortable position without success. Finally his wife sensed his husband’s uneasiness through her sleep and turned to face him opening her eyes still heavy from dreams.

“Sorry to wake you up darling” Eomer whispered softly and stroke gently her hair. “I just can’t sleep any more. I’ll go get some water and light the fire so you can sleep a bit longer today… Sleep now my love”. He kissed Cailín lightly on the cheek and rose up while she mumbled quietly and turned to continue her sleep.


Closing the front door Eomer immediately sensed that there was something that was not quite right. The forest was not just silent but it felt like all the nature was holding it’s breath. For a moment he hesitated but then started walking towards the village-square slowly and carefully. He sneaked forwards like a cat in the night.

When he reached the tavern by the square he heard the blackbird and felt the passing darkness. Peeking from around the corner he then caught eye of the swallow and the light. He held his breath leaning to the wall of the tavern while drawing his knife. Peeking once gain he found the square silent and empty. But he was not alone there. He felt that.

Then he heard a faint noise from the direction of the courthouse. There was someone there who didn’t want to be heard being there… He ha been right. Eomer crept a few steps forwards and finally heard the other one doing likewise.

Eomer halted. The other one halted as well. From the corner of his eye he could see the rays of sunlight slowly reaching the gates of the palisade wall.

Suddenly the blackbird came from one of the houses and landed on the top of the well. It sang a song Eomer soon realised he could understand.

Those were strange and terrible tidings.


After the song ended Nogrod sprang up to his feet from the other side of the well the poker ready to blow and called into the fading darkness with a loud voice: “Come forwards villain!”

The blackbird sprang off.

Eomer heard Nogrod’s call and sighed in relief with the recognition. “Oh, judge Nogrod!” he called him getting straight himself as well. “It sure is good to hear your voice as I was about to attack a villain myself”.

They both saw each other now. “Gods be praised. I could have blown your brains out with my poker dear sister-in-law’s sister-in-law’s sister’s brother-in-law, Eomer.” Nogrod said, relieved.

“Had you had time before my knife would have stuck in your chest…” Eomer replied with an according smile.


But the relievement was soon gone as Nogrod suddenly froze again.

“We’re not alone Eomer…” he hissed from between his teeth.

“Behind you!” Eomer cried as he saw a giant werewolf coming from the shadows and leaping towards the judge from behind.

Nogrod ducked aside and Eomer threw his knife towards the leaping werewolf. The knife bounced off from the werewolf’s thick skin but caused enough pain to make the beast howl from pain.

The rooster crowed an alarm and the first rays of the sun entered the village gate.

Before Eomer had time to turn around he felt a giant claw hitting him into the back of his head. To his astonishment he felt no pain. He only felt something warm and wet flowing down his back. Then all started to get fuzzy.

“Cailín! … Lhuna! … Dury! …” He managed to mumble before to him the world was no more.


Falling sideways to the ground Nogrod saw from the corner of his eye the werewolf attacking Eomer from behind. It was too late to yell but he did yell anyway: "Noooooo!".

He was up in no time just to face two werewolves coming for him from left and right. Glancing forwards he saw the third one finishing with Eomer by ripping his head off and throwing it into the well with a splash.

“Alarm! Alarm!” he shouted from the bottom of his lungs. The sunlight had already crept to the edge of the square.

The two attacked simultaneously. Nogrod managed to deal a blow to the other one but the blow only seemed to irritate it. With two quick slashes Nogrod’s body was torn in two.

“Morm! Revenge this my brother!” Nogrod managed to yell. Those were his last words.


The sun lit the square as the first violently awakened villagers reached the scene. All they found from there were the torn bodies of their fellows Eomer and Nogrod.

The blackbird sat on the roof of the courthouse and sang it’s song (http://audio.xanga.com/Nogrod/5d0692293442/audio.html) once again.

Before anyone could react a swallow appeared, from nowhere it seemed, and attacked the blackbird chirping loud as it went after it. Somehow it’s song encouraged the villagers.

“There is hope…” little Diamond said softly watching intensively at the fighting birds that were drawing away. The ageless child the Ka took a few steps to stand beside her and took her by the hand nodding to her. Di pressed her hand and tried to comfort the small one.

“Let’s see that my husband didn’t die in vain” Cailín added firmly.

“As my brother was the judge of this village I will claim his duties and lead the investigations concerning their deaths” Morm said in a clear voice. “Now let everyone speak. We’ll get those foul ones who are responsible of my brother’s unjust and cruel death! One of them should be lynched by the sunset.”




Alive:

+ A Little Green, a fortune-teller - folklorist - herb-grower - unofficial therapist, advisor and midwife, most presumably a witch, the gammer (the eccentric mother of Lommy & Mac)
+ Shastanis Althreduin, astrologer/fortune teller, gaffer (Greenie's husband, father of Lommy & Mac)
+ Isabellkaya, a gammer who loves asparagus and throwing knives (Shasta's sister)

+ Thinlómien, a bird tamer, adult (married to Nilp, Macalaure's sister)
+ Nilpaurion Felagund, a house-bound sandwich-maker, adult (married to Lommy)
+ Eönwë, Rikae's unofficial helper-person, 22 (their son)
+ Kath, tavern owner, 20 (their daughter, Brinn's life partner)
+ Satansaloser 2005, Lommy's assistant, 17 (their daughter)

+ Macalaure, apple farmer, adult (married to Rikae, Lommy's brother)
+ Rikae, a lumberjack, adult (married to Macalaure, Roa's sister)
+ the phantom, sheep herder with Legate, 21 (their adopted son, Di's brother)
+ Diamond 18, dissolute, 11 (phantom's pre-teen littlesister)

+ Cailín, guinea pig breeder, adult (Nilp's sister)
+ Lhunardawen, healer's apprentice, 20 (Cailín's daughter, good twin of Durelin)
+ Durelin, poisoner 20 (Lhuna's evil twin, daughter of Cailín)


+ Volo, the guy who knows everything about staying alive, the gaffer (Father of Nogrod, morm, Nerwen and Lalaith)

+ Roa_Aoife, school teacher, adult (mother of Legate, Brinn and Kit, wife of Nogrod, sister of Rikae)
+ Brinniel, Greenie's apprentice, 21 (Legate's sister and Kitanna's twin sister, Kath's life partner)
+ Kitanna, a tavern wench 21 (Legate's sister and Brinn's twin sister)
+ Legate of Amon Lanc, sheep herder with tp, 19 (brother of Brinn & Kit, Sally's boyfriend, Agan's ex-bf)

+ Nerwen, the healer, adult (sister of Lalaith, Volo's daughter)

+ Lalaith, chocolate maker, adult (sister of Nerwen, mother of Aganzir, Volo's daughter)
+ Aganzir, the little match girl, 15 (Lalaith's daughter, dates McCaber)
+ The Ka, a dog whipper (a fatherless and ageless little child of Lalaith)

+ Mormegil, adult (son of Volo, husband of Celuien, father of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Celuien, a candle maker, adult (wife of morm, mother of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Gwathagor, a highwayman, 20 (McCaber's big brother)
+ McCaber, a henchman, 18 (Gwath's little brother, dates Aganzir)


The dead:
Eomer of the Rohirrim, adult (Cailín's husband, Lhuna's and Dury's father); An innocent beheaded by the werewolves on Night1
Nogrod, the judge, adult (Roa's husband, father of Legate, Brinn and Kit); An innocent torn in two by werewolves on Night1


Day1 begins.

Wizards and their minions stop talking and join the others.

You are all free to discuss now.

[Volo]

"My son, Nogrod! How is this possible, no, it can't be! Not my son, no, no, no. My favourite son! Noggie, oh, Noggie... I told you all I could about surviving and... And... *sob* What is this? You go and die inside our very own village. Unbelievable! How could you fail me so badly!! I would have disowned you if... if... if you weren't dead (no I wouldn't)!" Volo hugged his long staff and cried loudly. The cry soon turned into a caughing fit which continued with rasping sobs. From between his sobs an "I told you to look behind, Eomer, I did, but you wouldn't listen..." was heard.

He calmed down a bit when he saw the sons of morm. "Please, don't you die. You've shown great potential in surviving -even though your games are a bit too wild. Especially you, Cabbie, dating that Aganzir. Now her mother never cared about surviving. 'Surviving. Surviving... All you do is survive', she told me once. Bah, I say!"

"At least good Nerwen, my dear daughter knows something about staying alive", Volo smiled kindly at his devastated daughter. "But I really dislike you living right beside the gate out of the village, the wind blows fouly through the gate, they say. Humor your father, move to live with him. (I'd live longer myself too. It's a rule that living on one's own shortens life.)" He sighed.

[Volo]

Oh, come on! It's 3AM here and nobody is posting. Well, I guess I waited too long - I'm falling asleep as I sit here, so I'd better just go and sleep. :/ See you tomorrow.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta's craggy face seemed to be lined much more liberally than usual as he looked up on the bloodstains and body parts that were all that remained of Nogrod and Eomer.

"I had read for Eomer just yesterday..." he said softly, half to himself. "The Death card had come up, but... I never expected... Surely the reason it crossed the Two of Wands is clear now, two deaths... The card is so rarely taken literally... Change is its normal meaning... and this... well, this is certainly a change... The cards are never wrong," he began to speak louder, "but just this once.... I wish they had been."

Shasta bowed his head, more frail today than usual, and turned away from the sight.

"I need to sit..."

[Aganzir]

Oh my god! Uncle Nogrod! In spite of him always being so scornful towards mom and me, he was my second most favourite uncle! And poor mister Eomer also.
*sheds a tear*

Though, now that the judge is dead... Life will be a lot easier for those of us who don't work within the boundaries of law... For highwaymen and henchmen, for example... :Merisu:

So who of us could be guilty of betraying and killing their relatives? I can come up with at least one suggestion without having to think too much. If we're looking for treacherous, dishonest and evil people, Legate is a sure bet. And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if his little sally was a murderer, too. Just what one would expect from people like them.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Little Green Hag and Shasta were conspiring against us, and Brinn too. I mean, they are witches... Except Shasta who is male and therefore a wizard.

Or maybe Roa and Cailín fell in love with someone else and decided to cooperate to get their husbands out of the way.
Or maybe their children wanted to get their shares of the inheritance in advance.

Or maybe whatever.

Do you want to buy matches?

edit: xed with Shasta

[Kitanna]

*gasp* To think something like this would happen here, in our pleasant village. And my own father, Noggie, among the dead. I'm so distraught.

And I see Aganzir is quick to place blame upon my family. There was nothing but love between us. There's not a hateful bone in any of their bodies. Especially not for Noggie or Eomer. :p

[THE Ka]

Ka was glad she had someone to comfort her. Sometimes Bavo would misbehave and bring her dead rats as a 'treat', but this was different. She wanted to look away, but the sight of death pulled too much at times, then she sniffled and thanked Di for her kindness.
Though, Agan was getting excited over her boyfriend again, and Ka rolled her eyes. What was with boys anyway? They played dirty tricks and stunk.

"Agan you're just being that way because Cab likes you, and he stands all day outside the house singing and he brought you two more flowers than Gwath did." *sniffles a bit*

" Those birds looked odd, but I don't know much about birds, just rowdy dogs. Neither about wolves either, just that they're dangerous and that dogs can sense them- No wonder Bavo and I didn't find any yesterday! That was odd too, they always hang around for food, no matter what. Maybe Lommy knows about the birds."

Ka looked over her shoulder to see if anyone else had joined the crowd, but mostly to see if Bavo had come out from under the house yet.

*sniffle* "I need to get Bavo from under the house, I don't think I can go to sleep toNight if he tries to run away."

(( Just curious, am I the only one who finds it darkly humorous that the poison lab is right next to Lalaith's chocolate shop?))

[Roa_Aoife]

"Nogrod! It cannot be! Don't leave me alone, my love!" Roa fell beside her husband's body, weeping. It took some coaxing, but she finally released him to others and buried her face in her her sister, Rikae's, shoulder. Upon hearing her Aganzir's words, however, she looked up with a face full of vengeance.

"My own niece, with such accusations! I could never love another man. And to accuse our own children! How dare you!" Roa straightened herself and scornfully pointed towards Morm's two boys. "If anyone here is treacherous and dishonest, it would be those that make a living out of preying on the unwary travelers! Gwathagor and McCaber have never done an honest days work, and I highly doubt there is anything honest about them! And as Agan herself said, they would benefit from the lack of a judge."

She turned back toward Nogrod's corpse and placed her hand on his now still heart. "Don't worry, my love, I will find out who did this to you and punish them severely for it. I swear it."

(((Okay, that was my big in character entrance. Don't expect too much more of it.)))

[the phantom]

Aw, too bad. I lost my future father-in-law! Ah, well at least he died knowing his daughter would be happy.

That is if she lives through this. :p

Let's see here, there are... 28 of us. Discounting the two Wizards the score is 23-3. Lynch one today, lose two during the night, and add a WW, and tomorrow the score will be 19-4. Then odds say we will lynch another innocent, then we lose two more the next night plus add another WW, and on Day 3 the score will be 15-5!

Most villages start out with something like, what, around 13-3 or so? So in other words on Day 3 it is likely that our ratio of WWs will already be worse than what most villages start out as.

All right, so suppose we start a village off at 15-5. It looks tough, doesn't it? But on top of that, in this village the WWs get an extra kill every night and there is the opportunity to add yet another WW every night! Let me ask, what sort of chance would you give that village of survival?

I see that the earliest a challenge can happen is Day 4. Suppose we lynch incorrectly on Day 3 (not a stretch if there are 5 WWs to 17 non-WWs) and the WWs kill yet again and the EW scries again on Night 4. That would mean coming into Day 4 the count would be 11-6!! The village would be more than one-third Werewolves!
:eek:
And that's the earliest the GW can challenge the EW!

Assuming that he has even discovered him by that point.

Hmmm.... any chance I could be a WW? Come on, EW, don't you want me on your team? Pleeeeease.

Ah, but seriously, it comes down to this- the EW must be found quickly! If the EW is still unknown on Day 6 then we're dead. Day 5 we have a chance if we've had good luck lynching WWs. But by Day 4 would definitely be the best.

But how to find the EW? We must use some method or another to rank the likelihood of someone being the EW, whether we go based on play style in this game, personality, stated level of RL activity on the other thread, etc. But whatever method that is used, there will be some who will be ranked near the bottom, and if the EW is one of them- game over.

For instance, the GW may have already decided to judge based on personality and decided that Eonwe is not the sort to apply to be a Wizard. But if the EW is in fact Eonwe then the game is already over and we just don't know it yet.

Scary!

We must hope for good fortune in the lynch, successful dreaming by the Seer, and above all, we must hope that there is some halfway logical way to rule out candidates for EW that does not prove to be completely wrong.

[Roa_Aoife]

It's not as bad as you think, phantom. I should hope very much that we aren't going to lynch that many innocents in this game, but we may very well do so if we aren't actually looking for wolves.

Your idea to find the EW is flawed. For one thing, that may or may not help us in finding wolves, which ought to be our primary concern. If we can lynch wolves instead of innocents, then not only do we keep the numbers low (and so prevent double kills for a little while) we help the GW with her most vital task, which is to leave us with the best odds possible. The GW will find the EW. It's her, job not ours. We should focus on wolf hunting. It's our best bet for survival.

Quite honestly, I find this suspicious behavior from you, phantom. One, you are encouraging the village to not look for wolves. And Two- since when do you share these sorts of ideas with the village? You usually keep plans and strategies to yourself until the bad guys have fallen for your trap.

I'm not saying you're on the evil team, but I'm keeping an eye on you. (Well, more than I already was. You're a sneaky bugger, you are....)

[Brinniel]

*swears loudly* The news of my father's death is a hard blow to my family. I should like to put a curse on whoever is responsible for his death...ehm, once Greenie teaches me one...

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Little Green Hag and Shasta were conspiring against us, and Brinn too. I mean, they are witches... Except Shasta who is male and therefore a wizard.
Correction, I believe the term is warlock...not wizard. But thank you for accusing us of witchcraft...I take that as a compliment. :D Anyways, whoever said it was a bad thing? After all while one wizard may be evil, the other is on our side.

Our odds might be tough...but then again I think it could go either way. Also, don't forget werewolves can be turned back into ordos. Goodness, my head hurts just thinking of all the possible things that could happen these coming Days and Nights. Anything is possible.

Meanwhile, I need some time to mourn over the death of my father as well as Eomer (who was also a kindly man and will be dearly missed). Kath, I need a hug... :(

[Durelin]

"Father cried my name last...I knew he hated me, if not so much as mother and Lhuna do. They just don't understand me! No, but they do fear me...yes...that has to count for something...more than something..." Durelin trailed off into unintelligable mutters, realizing she was voicing another monologue, and that there were no asides in this place.

She calmly walked over to her father's remains and knelt by the two pieces to examine them. "Those are some sharp claws..." she observed to no one. "Now, who has more reason to do this sort of thing to my father than me?" Durelin scanned the other villagers who crowded around the two corpses.

[satansaloser2005]

"How could such a thing happen, and to my dear uncle Eomer?" Sally said as she wiped the tears from her eyes. "These villians must be caught and....and....and pecked to death! Emily, stay close so that when we find the nasties you can pluck out their eyes! My uncle will be avenged!"



Sally walked over to Legate, who had been speechless since hearing of his father's death. "My dear Legate, don't worry, for we shall have justice on these killers. Nice, painful, brutal, swift justice, full of vengeance and blood and....erm...." Legate smiled slightly at Sally's overeagerness, and he placed a hand around her waist as she continued.
"My love, your father's death will not have been in vain, for he will help us catch the werewolves. You'll see, everything will be all right. Your father will be proud of this village, and especially of you." Sally embraced Legate tightly, then slowly walked off to comfort her aunt Cailin and her cousins.

[the phantom]

I should hope very much that we aren't going to lynch that many innocents in this game, but we may very well do so if we aren't actually looking for wolves.
that may or may not help us in finding wolves
We should focus on wolf hunting.
Bah! Why bother trying to find Wolves?

There aren't any!

At least, not what any of us would call Wolves.

In other villages the WWs work together and know their fellow pack members. In this village... well, honestly, there's no way the EW told all his WWs who he is and who their fellows are. That would be too risky.

Thus a "Wolf" is simply an Ordo who counts as a WW in the tally.

[Roa_Aoife]

Bah! Why bother trying to find Wolves?

There aren't any!

At least, not what any of us would call Wolves.

In other villages the WWs work together and know their fellow pack members. In this village... well, honestly, there's no way the EW told all his WWs who he is and who their fellows are. That would be too risky.

Thus a "Wolf" is simply an Ordo who counts as a WW in the tally.

Now this is just flat out wrong. There's more than one way to catch a wolf. We needn't rely solely on looking for connections. Good wolves don't demonstrate any anyways, and yet they are catchable. In fact, I would say that perceived connections are the worst possible reason to suspect someone.

Now, posting faulty ideas and misinformation, on the other hand....

[satansaloser2005]

So who of us could be guilty of betraying and killing their relatives? I can come up with at least one suggestion without having to think too much. If we're looking for treacherous, dishonest and evil people, Legate is a sure bet. And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if his little sally was a murderer, too. Just what one would expect from people like them.


"I can't possibly see how you could come to that conclusion," Sally said, angered by the personal attack and under the circumstances tempted to respond in kind. "After all, I'm not the one dating my cousin." Agan shot an dirty look in Sally and Legate's direction but she ignored it. "Perhaps you're eager to place blame on someone else before it is placed on yourself? Or perhaps you're just acting out of jealousy. Wonder why that could be...." Agan huffed loudly and stormed off, while Sally calmed herself by trying to sort out who could have been behind the previous night's events.



EDIT: x'd with phantom and Roa

[the phantom]

In fact, I would say that perceived connections are the worst possible reason to suspect someone.
Unless those flimsy connections are backed up by hard votes. I've seen many a WW nailed for his voting, whether the reasoning was good or not.
Now, posting faulty ideas and misinformation, on the other hand....
Heh heh heh... ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Bah! Why bother trying to find Wolves?

There aren't any!

At least, not what any of us would call Wolves.

In other villages the WWs work together and know their fellow pack members. In this village... well, honestly, there's no way the EW told all his WWs who he is and who their fellows are. That would be too risky.

Thus a "Wolf" is simply an Ordo who counts as a WW in the tally.



Phantom says "Bah!" I say "Bwah????"

The wolves still are wolves, and I'm in no mood to treat them with more grace than in any other occasion. The only difference is that they (assumedly) don't know the identities of their fellows, or even their ringleader. I still say it's possible to find connections, as the EW may force them to act contrary to their normal playing style; then again, maybe not. It's worth a shot though, in any case.

[satansaloser2005]

Unless those flimsy connections are backed up by hard votes. I've seen many a WW nailed for his voting, whether the reasoning was good or not.

Heh heh heh... ;)



Exhibit A....



"Lhuna, my dear cousin, are you sure you know what you're doing? You certainly have picked an odd'un."


"Where are my mother and father? Surely they have not also been attacked? And my sister and brother as well. Perhaps they are with Auntie Cailin, the poor thing."

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Little Green Hag and Shasta were conspiring against us, and Brinn too. I mean, they are witches... Except Shasta who is male and therefore a wizard.


Shasta drew himself up calmly from his seat on a nearby bench, moving to stand beside Brinniel, laying a gnarled hand on her shoulder.

"Thank you, my dear, for that," he said with the beginnings of a smile, before turning to Aganzir.

"Wolf or wizard," he began, "if you wish to find those who would plot against you, I should wonder just how innocent, is someone who admits to poisoning people...." He trailed off meaningfully, looking at Durelin out of the corner of an eye. "Or, child, I do wonder about that... ruffian you choose to cavort with-" Seeing McCaber glare at him, he swiftly changed the subject. "But as you are no offspring of mine, I suppose I shan't worry my old bones about it."

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and before I forget. Hope this works....


http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r223/satansaloser2005/completeDWfamilytrees-4.jpg


Okay, off to charge laptop battery (and it's flipping hot out here). Be back in a couple three hours to check posts, so if you haven't said anything yet and you're awake please post for me! :)

[Roa_Aoife]

Unless those flimsy connections are backed up by hard votes. I've seen many a WW nailed for his voting, whether the reasoning was good or not.


That hardly makes them the best method. Nor does it mean that any other methods are useless to us, so you have still posted a seriously flawed theory. And with your experience and skill, I can hardly think it accidental.

[Lalaith]

Lalaith gazed at the bodies of the dead, with tears in her eyes. Her great, fine, respectable big brother, who had always looked down on his louche young sibling....well now she was looking down on him. Poor man. It was grimly ironic. And the guinea-pig breeder's husband, too....
The villagers were all talking, and Lalaith tried to take in and weigh up as much of it in as she could.
Of most interest was her sister-in-law, the grieving widow Roa, and this strange debate about wolves and wizards she was having with her sister's son phantom.
Lalaith's own inclination was to find and fight the evil in whatever form it took, lesser or greater, but there was merit in considering all approaches.

She called her daughters to her, and placed her arm around each of them, as if to protect them against whatever nameless thing was threatening them. She would ponder, while she worked, and return to the discussion later in the Day.
But one thing was certain. The chocolate she would be making today would be dark and bitter.

[mormegil]

It's not as bad as you think, phantom. I should hope very much that we aren't going to lynch that many innocents in this game, but we may very well do so if we aren't actually looking for wolves.

Your idea to find the EW is flawed. For one thing, that may or may not help us in finding wolves, which ought to be our primary concern. If we can lynch wolves instead of innocents, then not only do we keep the numbers low (and so prevent double kills for a little while) we help the GW with her most vital task, which is to leave us with the best odds possible. The GW will find the EW. It's her, job not ours. We should focus on wolf hunting. It's our best bet for survival.

Quite honestly, I find this suspicious behavior from you, phantom. One, you are encouraging the village to not look for wolves. And Two- since when do you share these sorts of ideas with the village? You usually keep plans and strategies to yourself until the bad guys have fallen for your trap.

I'm not saying you're on the evil team, but I'm keeping an eye on you. (Well, more than I already was. You're a sneaky bugger, you are....)

I'm only to this point but I must agree with the phantom here. The EW is the key to our success or theirs. (Oh, I can't wait until people misread that statement!) Anyway the EW is the deciding factor. If we get him/her early on the chance of victory becomes that much greater or rather our chance of defeat that much less, either way it's important. Factors such as RL time and availability are definately plausible factors to consider.

On to wolves, I don't think the EW would pick those who are more obvious, so to speak. I doubt the phantom would be picked at this stage but he could honestly be the EW, though I doubt that.

"My own niece, with such accusations! I could never love another man. And to accuse our own children! How dare you!" Roa straightened herself and scornfully pointed towards Morm's two boys. "If anyone here is treacherous and dishonest, it would be those that make a living out of preying on the unwary travelers! Gwathagor and McCaber have never done an honest days work, and I highly doubt there is anything honest about them! And as Agan herself said, they would benefit from the lack of a judge."

Now boys, it would seem we have a job to do tonight. Somebody doesn't like your work. You should teach how hard your job really is.

[mormegil]

Our odds might be tough...but then again I think it could go either way. Also, don't forget werewolves can be turned back into ordos. Goodness, my head hurts just thinking of all the possible things that could happen these coming Days and Nights. Anything is possible.

Meanwhile, I need some time to mourn over the death of my father as well as Eomer (who was also a kindly man and will be dearly missed). Kath, I need a hug... :(

I take statements like this as fairly suspicous comments, all but the bolded one most of all. I don't know why they just don't sit well with me. It always makes me think they are trying to distance themselves with nightly activity.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm only to this point but I must agree with the phantom here. The EW is the key to our success or theirs. (Oh, I can't wait until people misread that statement!) Anyway the EW is the deciding factor. If we get him/her early on the chance of victory becomes that much greater or rather our chance of defeat that much less, either way it's important. Factors such as RL time and availability are definately plausible factors to consider.

I'm not saying that the EW isn't important. Obviously both wizards are fundamentally important to the game. (That's why it's Dueling Wizards.) However, I don't think finding her is as "key" as you think it is. Keeping the wolf population low should be our first priority.

On to wolves, I don't think the EW would pick those who are more obvious, so to speak. I doubt the phantom would be picked at this stage but he could honestly be the EW, though I doubt that.


Or the EW could have counted on people assuming that no one obvious would be picked and so picked the most obvious. We can't know for certain, and so we shouldn't rule anyone out.

[mormegil]

Or the EW could have counted on people assuming that no one obvious would be picked and so picked the most obvious. We can't know for certain, and so we shouldn't rule anyone out.

No, we can't no for certain can we? However, I consider playing the odds the best bet at this stage of the game. If I were the EW, well I would pick...well there's something I must do but I will be back.

[THE Ka]

Ka returned holding on closely to the large bumbling (and slobering) Bavo who was the closest thing she had to a true playmate, to find that more villagers had arrived only it seems to argue. Seeing Lalaith made her heart lighten up a bit, since she only had her mama to care for her, and she came over for a hug quickly. Trying to listen again with the banter too fast for a child such as herself, but something caught on:

In this village... well, honestly, there's no way the EW told all his WWs who he is and who their fellows are. That would be too risky.


Sorry to sound simple, but if I remember someone saying correctly that both the GW and EW control the actions of their servants, and can overide any decision, action, hidden message and their natures in the game as well. I understand that it makes sense to keep all of your ducks in a row and use them in good time, but why would someone in such a position be so nervous about whom they relate with, if they are the only ones who can talk with them? The seer is the only possibility of ultimately figuring out the identity of anyone, and obviously would be lucky to bag a werewolf, let alone their leader (or, at least figure out who's their fellow gifted).

Unless they are so afraid their own flock can't be trusted from ratting them out, but what tactless wolf or gifted would do that if they want to survive let alone win?
I guess I can see the logic of summing up your team before you let them get to know you and your motives, but in this game its the only team you have and you can't refund your wizard/witch and expect a new one without loosing your position on power as well (unless you're figuring that if we knock out the EW or enough of their team early enough we can hunt down the wolves using older methods).

Sorry if I'm forgetting any of the rules already stated, I'm just a little curious on what you would guess the EW or GW would do in relation to wolves now, but especially in the next few days.
I really don't have a clue what to look for if we can't rely on old experience hunting or being werewolves so easily. :confused:

Though, the best bet is to make sure there are more gifteds than wolves (and if that means just finding any wolves we can, I'm completely fine with that. If we can't catch the EW, we can at least give them a lesser range of influence.). Seriously considering how we're loosing two a night.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm only to this point but I must agree with the phantom here. The EW is the key to our success or theirs. (Oh, I can't wait until people misread that statement!) Anyway the EW is the deciding factor. If we get him/her early on the chance of victory becomes that much greater or rather our chance of defeat that much less, either way it's important. Factors such as RL time and availability are definately plausible factors to consider.


"I'm afraid I must side with the sister of my son's wife in this case, Morm," Shasta said quietly, moving with the stately grace of the aged to stand next to Roa, walking stick planted firmly in the dust. "Should we even begin to be able to search out this evil wizard, I should think it would still take some time before we would be able to do anything - indeed, it seems only her counterpart would be able to affect her in any way. By the time the evil one would be vulnerable, I estimate that there could be as many as six of her minions at work in our village. It makes me wonder, indeed it does, at the seemingly-insignificant way you, my daughter-in-law's sister's husband's brother-in-law, and my inquisitve grandson Phantom, seem to think similarly, in error."

He turned to Roa and offered his arm.

"My dear, you look a bit pale and shocky. Please, do me the honor of accompanying me back to our home. I'm sure my wife can whip up something to help you, and we should carry the news of what has happened to her and my sister, assuming they have not heard already."

[the phantom]

I still say it's possible to find connections, as the EW may force them to act contrary to their normal playing style; then again, maybe not. It's worth a shot though, in any case.
Shhh... don't pursue that subject any further.

You are right of course that the WWs might have been given certain... erm... directions... I don't want to be too specific here... I'd rather not have people start posting their thoughts on the matter (ie giving examples). It might be better just to watch for it, for mentioning a specific maneuver may cause the WWs not to use it, where as if we'd keep mum they might do it and then we can spot it if you see what I mean. ;)

Oh, and lovely family tree there.
I understand that it makes sense to keep all of your ducks in a row and use them in good time, but why would someone in such a position be so nervous about whom they relate with, if they are the only ones who can talk with them?
I'm not sure I'm understanding what you are saying in this section. Are you questioning the assumption that the WWs won't know each other or the EW?

[the phantom]

As far as thinking about who the EW would pick....

First, the EW didn't actually pick his three WWs- he submitted a list of names, and three people off the list were randomly assigned to be WWs.

In addition, the "who" doesn't matter nearly so much as the "how many". If I was the EW I'd take six mediocre WWs over two brilliant ones any day. In other words the EW will simply pick people that he thinks are not likely to be scried or lynched. If he picks well then the game is his.

Sure, on one hand if he scries me then I can make all kinds of devilish suggestions etc, but if I'm a likely lynch/scry target then it isn't worth it.

Btw, I'd kind of like to be scried multiple times by the two of you during this game. Not on the same night, mind you! I just think it would be fun to switch sides and maybe get to chat with both Wizards in the course of one village.

[THE Ka]

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you are saying in this section. Are you questioning the assumption that the WWs won't know each other or the EW?

Mostly that of the WW(s) not knowing the EW, in light of the fact that they cannot become very maverick if all their decisions and acting for the next day is determined via the EW's approval/disapproval. Though, then again the EW might simply use the WW(s)' range of influence individually and still have what they want without loosing any power up to them if they don't know one another, but still they have to submit any ideas off to the EW. That stratification of authority does give everyone else some advantage, but not much.

... I'm going to analyze the rules for the billionith time before I cross my own eyes. :rolleyes:

Edit:

If the wizard reveals her identity to you you can PM her directly. If she reveals you the identity of your fellow-wolf (or wolves) and allows it you may also PM to them during the Nights. But that's up to your wizard to decide.


Sorry about all of that, just answered my own curiousity... Okay, obviously I need to stop multi-tasking too much with other things while playing.

((Thanks as well to Shasta and Roa, and sorry to bother everyone with stupid questions.))

[Shastanis Althreduin]

((Ka, I could be wrong, but I don't think the WWs communicate directly with the EW unless the EW instigates the communication; I believe they go through Noggie or a sub-mod. :) ))

[Roa_Aoife]

Mostly that of the WW(s) not knowing the EW, in light of the fact that they cannot become very maverick if all their decisions and acting for the next day is determined via the EW's approval/disapproval. Though, then again the EW might simply use the WW(s)' range of influence individually and still have what they want without loosing any power up to them if they don't know one another, but still they have to submit any ideas off to the EW.


The reason the EW may not want the wolves to know her identity is because if the GW scries a werewolf, that wolf imediately changes sides and becomes an ordo. More importantly, an ordo who knows the identity of the EW and can share it with the village. Each wizard wants to protect their own identity sso that they can challenge the other wizard on their own terms, ie. when the conditions are in favor of their respective teams. So the EW is hesitant to the wolves any information.

[Lhunardawen]

Oh, my poor dead father. You had it coming, I'm afraid...you're too wise to be left alive if the wolves couldn't get you to join them.

Aw, too bad. I lost my future father-in-law! Ah, well at least he died knowing his daughter would be happy.

That is if she lives through this. :p
I don't like the sound of this, my dear. In fact, I'm not sure I like the sound of what you've been saying so far. Heaven help me if I'm actually engaged to a wizard.

"Lhuna, my dear cousin, are you sure you know what you're doing? You certainly have picked an odd'un."
You know, this is a perfectly sound question. ;)

I'm siding with Roa that it is more important for us to find the wolves than the EW. I think there will be enough of that during the Nights, with the GW trying to look for her herself (if all her gifteds stay alive, that is), and she could be asking her gifteds to do the same, for all we know. My point is, the GW knows her job and we can trust her to do it. Our role here is to look for the wolves, because they're our immediate foes.

You're right, phantom, that it will be tougher to look for them since we can't rely on connections. But history has proved that lynching a wolf in these circumstances is possible. There are other things to consider, like general posting sense and helpfulness and all that. I guess we could partly be guided by keeping the EW in mind, though. I think the EW would prefer wolves less likely to be lynched than the very brilliant ones who attract the noose like flowers to bees.

By the way, this is just a suggestion, but I think that after the initial rantings about the dead, maybe we could do away with the RPG style of writing. Nogmod didn't require it, if my memory's to be trusted, and they're kind of hard to read through. It will be bad enough to have to crawl through so many posts with this large a village.

[the phantom]

I'd love to stay and chat, but I simply must get some sleep. Early morning tomorrow.

I will check in briefly, go to work for a bit, and then return for the last few hours of the day.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm afraid I must be leaving as well. I'll be back on briefly tomorrow about 4 hours before deadline, and I'll have to vote then, since I don't get off work again until 2 hours after deadline. Good hunting everyone.

[Durelin]

The wolves still have a guilty conscience, fear of lynching, and an agenda. It's not really any different. Connections people draw often seem to leave out one wolf who slips by quietly, anyway, even when it seems all is figured out.

Also, what's to say the EW wouldn't let their wolves know each other at least, if not communicate? That is certainly an advantage to them, unless of course the EW doesn't want them to be able to create connections among themselves except by chance. But oh yeah, duh...who's a wolf and who's not can change at anytime.

Btw, I'd kind of like to be scried multiple times by the two of you during this game. Not on the same night, mind you! I just think it would be fun to switch sides and maybe get to chat with both Wizards in the course of one village.

That is the coolest thing about this game.

[satansaloser2005]

Drat. I was rather hoping for a flurry of posts while I was gone, but alas....

Okay, I'm going back to my house to get some sleep. I'll try to get up early(ish) so I can post before work. In case that proves impossible, however, I'll find some other way to post before deadline.

Speak up, people! I want to wake up to your lovely voices! :)

Good night, sweet princes/princesses (wow, that was random),
~~Sally~~



EDIT: x'd with Roa and Durie....of course....NOW people post.... :P

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, that reminds me. Noggie, can the GW/EW scry the same person two nights in a row? I know you can't heal someone two nights in a row, but I didn't know if that applied to scries as well. Reason I ask is that I had a dream last night that the wizards kept fighting over someone and pretty much taking turns scrying them. Pity that I can't remember who it was, but it made me wonder nonetheless.

[Gwathagor]

I just got back late from Ironman, and I have to go sleep now, but I thought I'd check in briefly.

It's been fun watching Roa and the phantom go at it. Thanks for giving me something to read.

I can't remember who said what exactly (it's late for me), but it seems like the key here is to try to track down the Evil Wizard, because he/she is constant whereas the wolves can change any day. In the couple of games that I have played, a case is usually built against a player over a period of several days, based on voting records and other accumulated evidence and suspicion. Hardly ever is the first person lynched a wolf, which I think demonstrates that a single day is rarely enough to identify a baddie, which is why I think it's better to make a concerted effort to find the EW, than to scramble about every day trying to flush out that day's unique wolf line-up. No, I'm not saying "don't look for wolves." But I do think most of our energy should be directed towards tracking down the EW. In my opinion.

Ok, early day of work tomorrow. Lords and ladies need relieving of their valuables. Got to rest up.
:cool:

[Brinniel]

Okay, so we know there aren't connections between the wolves as they probably don't know of each other. So we should look for a different connection...and that'd be between the EW and the wolves. By lynching wolves, we will have better clues to who the EW may be.

And yes I know the EW didn't specifically choose the wolves last Night. But they did make a list...therefore each person on that list was chosen for some reason to be considered for a wolf. Anyone who is a wolf is one because of the EW. For these first Days, we should find the wolves...then search for the EW. I think that's the best plan right now.

[Isabellkya]

Izzie raises her cup to her lips and sips the tea, in the middle of swallowing she half chokes and half spits it out. "I dare say, I've never been a tea drinker - not sure who would think it the choice of the elderly." She stretches and dumps the tea out the window, refilling her cup with cool spiked apple juice; "ahh much more welcoming to the palette."

Why must it be a choice of either focusing on the wolves, or focusing on the EW? Can we not multi-task? The GW is perhaps better equiped at finding the EW, yet there is no crime in helping her out.

Keeping the population of wolves to under four, I think would be a very smart idea - as obviously we would only be subjected to one kill a night. Yet letting the EW to roam free, capable of popping out wolves like a well oiled factory - is something we need to face now, rather than wait.

I think it would be pure folly for both the EW and GW to hand out their identity to their minions at the get-go. As well as allow all of them to know the indentities of their fellow minions. There is no guarantee that you will keep your role and alignment as a wolf/gifted/ordo for the duration of the game.

If a wolf is turned to an ordo, what reason would they have to keep whatever information they learned a secret? The same for an ordo>gifted>ordo>wolf?

I'd have to re-examine the discussion thread, because I have a couple more thoughts which the answers are not jumping forward to.

[Cailín]

:(

Oh, Eomer, darling, love of my life...

What a dreadful, horrible day

A terrible sadness is on your wife

And all guinea pigs squeak in dismay


My apologies for the pitiful rhyme, but this tragedy has quite robbed me of any gift for poetry I may have had. I cannot believe this happened, and cannot even think on it now. Who will look after my girls now? Who will discipline Durelin? Who will look after me? And the poor pigs? I must be strong.

---

Let me add to the EW and Wolves discussion (my future son-in-law phantom already managed to evoke some strong reactions, which is always good) that we should attempt to do both find the wolves and guess at the EW’s identity, as Izzy says. This may seem a pretty useless comment, but let us not forget that we have little to go on and our success in lynching wolves (the villager’s task) somewhat depends on us figuring out who the EW is.

The EW will be someone with
- lots of time on her hands (Nogrod used she in the narration, but I seem to remember we shouldn’t think this significant)
- confidence in her ww abilities. She has to live up to quite a legend, after all.
- a slightly twisted personality

This already eliminates half the village, I think (though all here have twisted personalities, and do not try to deny it).

And, another point the phantom made which I wish to highlight again. If I were the EW, I would also choose from among our less famous, vocal and illustrous villagers. The EW has no great interest in finding out who the GW is. So the EW will probably be scrying those she does not really suspect of wizardry and are able to fly under the radar for a long time. At least, she will probably avoid choosing those who the GW is likely to suspect of evil wizardry, because losing a wolf to a nightly scry would be very inconvenient. Yet, this is all speculation. We cannot know what the EW would do, because we do not know her identity.

I am also with my daughter, Lhuna. Let us hunt some wolves today and revenge my husband’s death. For old times’ sake, I will start with accusing my lovely, yet suspicious neighbour Lalaith, whom I would turn instantly if I were the EW.

[Macalaure]

The one disappointing thing about this village is that Nogrod isn't available for me to heavily suspect him on the first Day on nearly non-existent grounds. :rolleyes: :p

Anyway, I wonder whether wolves will act differently in this game than usual. I mean, usually they fall somewhere in the interval between just staying hidden and actively trying to lynch innocents. Here, they could have the additional task to divert our eyes (and the eyes of GW and seer) from the EW. Also, since the wolves can be remade, the loss of one is not as crucial as it is in a regular village. This might be less careful about not being lynched than usual.

Your idea to find the EW is flawed. For one thing, that may or may not help us in finding wolves, which ought to be our primary concern. If we can lynch wolves instead of innocents, then not only do we keep the numbers low (and so prevent double kills for a little while) we help the GW with her most vital task, which is to leave us with the best odds possible. The GW will find the EW. It's her, job not ours. We should focus on wolf hunting. It's our best bet for survival.Why don't we just go for whoever simply appears evil? We benefit from both, finding the EW and lynching wolves. The only thing we don't benefit from is being single-minded.

I'm not saying you're on the evil team, but I'm keeping an eye on you.Now I just talked about wolves maybe acting differently, and then I spot a classic "I'm not suspicious, but I'm suspicious" already on the first page. ;)

Or the EW could have counted on people assuming that no one obvious would be picked and so picked the most obvious. We can't know for certain, and so we shouldn't rule anyone out.The GW is going to search for the EW with his scries. Picking someone as a wolf who could be assumed to be the EW is unwise, because the chance that the person will be turned back into an ordo due to the searching GW is high.


At this point, I'm suspicious of Roa being a wolf, not just because I disagree with her on much, but because the opinions stated by her fit to what a wolf would state, in my opinion. Shasta agreeing with Roa in #36 raised my eyebrow, too. Lhuna (#42) also sided with Roa, but less shadily.

morm, tp, and THE Ka are unlikely to be the EW, because they're too controversial.

Cailin just baffled me by first elaborating on the EW (and narrowing his identity down just a tad too much, I think) and then closing with the suggestion to go for wolves.

Other than that: cluelessness.

[A Little Green]

"Well, well, well. What mess have you gotten into, little ones? Let old Greenie sort this out. I'll see... herb-tea, anyone?"

---

Firstly, I'm quite baffled by the phantom (actually, I'm quite baffled about everything... :rolleyes:). You are right of course that the WWs might have been given certain... erm... directions... I don't want to be too specific here... I'd rather not have people start posting their thoughts on the matter (ie giving examples). I don't get the meaning of this, I'm afraid, and I don't like the way it's phrased. Also, I'm uneasy about the way he seems to be deliberately attention-seeking with all the "if I was the EW" and "please scry me" and Aw, too bad. I lost my future father-in-law! Ah, well at least he died knowing his daughter would be happy.

That is if she lives through this. :p -comments. I don't think the EW would behave that way though, and I'm not entirely convinced that a wolf would, either, but... There's something weird about him, but I can't say what. (Mac, my son, whatever did you and that Rikae feed him when he was a kid?)

Other than that, I'm inclined to agree with my sister-in-law Izzie that we don't need to make a choice between hunting the EW and hunting the wolves. I don't think we're unable to concentrate on both.

[Macalaure]

Mac, my son, whatever did you and that Rikae feed him when he was a kid?Calvados, hard cider, Äbbelwoi, applejack, and Cidre Brut. :smokin:

[Volo]

I can't remember who said what exactly (it's late for me), but it seems like the key here is to try to track down the Evil Wizard, because he/she is constant whereas the wolves can change any day. In the couple of games that I have played, a case is usually built against a player over a period of several days, based on voting records and other accumulated evidence and suspicion. Hardly ever is the first person lynched a wolf, which I think demonstrates that a single day is rarely enough to identify a baddie, which is why I think it's better to make a concerted effort to find the EW, than to scramble about every day trying to flush out that day's unique wolf line-up. No, I'm not saying "don't look for wolves." But I do think most of our energy should be directed towards tracking down the EW. In my opinion.I doubt the Wolves will change that much, but you pretty much sum it up, if you ask me. The discussion between EW and the Wolves is probably quite working, but one thing they most certainly can't do is make plans with player names in them. For the EW to reveal herself to the Wolves or the Wolves to each others is to risk all for plans with names. The whole team loses if one of the Wolves is scried in that situation and that is madness!
So: I think that there might be quite similar discussion between the Baddies as in more conservative game, but only without names - which is a big handicap if you think about it. So, so: We Wolves are just as clueless about who's who as the rest of us (exceptions being the Wizards and the Seer). I'm not even sure if the Wolves are as aware of their "guilt" (whatever that means) as in conservative games. After all sending a kill list is hard if names can't be discussed openly and in the end it's the EW who decides who die. So, so, so: It kinda all points at the EW... :S

Okay, so we know there aren't connections between the wolves as they probably don't know of each other. So we should look for a different connection...and that'd be between the EW and the wolves. By lynching wolves, we will have better clues to who the EW may be.Ha, nope! By scrying we get a better idea who the EW is. By killing the Wolves we get very vague ideas. If we scry them they will be able to tell what kind of things they have discussed at Night and that gives many more ideas than by just killing. Of course, a kill isn't a waste of a Wolf, but much more is gained by a successful scry. Actually I'd say that the GW is better at dealing with the Wolves than the village, meaning that a lynch is more effective on the EW than the scry and the other way round with Wolves:
1. Wolf - scry: Baddies lose one player, goodies gain.
2. Wolf - lynch: Baddies lose one player.
3. EW - scry: EW revealed to GW.
4. EW - lynch: EW revealed to all.
1. is better than 2. and 4. is better than 3. Ah, but for heaven's sake, why don't we just search for Baddies and not discuss how we should do it and whether we should search for only some baddies and not others. Come on!

And, another point the phantom made which I wish to highlight again. If I were the EW, I would also choose from among our less famous, vocal and illustrous villagers. The EW has no great interest in finding out who the GW is. So the EW will probably be scrying those she does not really suspect of wizardry and are able to fly under the radar for a long time. At least, she will probably avoid choosing those who the GW is likely to suspect of evil wizardry, because losing a wolf to a nightly scry would be very inconvenient. Yet, this is all speculation. We cannot know what the EW would do, because we do not know her identity. I would imagine the EW trying to scry (or wasn't it curse) Innocents.
I strongly doubt that the EW has solely chosen her Wolves from "our less famous, vocal and illustrous villagers". Thinking that way is dangerous, dangerous! If I were an EW I'd put a bit from her a bit from there. One or two "famous, vocal and illustrous villagers", one or two less so and one or two of completely not so (if we have any of those around). It is easier to hide for the Wolves if they aren't all non-vocal. However, the Wolves are probably not as actively trying to control the daily discussions as in normal games, because they know so little themselves.

At this point, I'm suspicious...blahblahblah Finally, I agree with Mac that we should finally start doing something that couldn't be done on the admin thread before the start of the game.


edit: Xd with Greenie and Mac

[Rikae]

I'm sorry I'm late. I was trapped in a London Plane tree all night long. I lost my bag in that accursed tree too - and now I escape to find Roa's husband, and my sister-in-law's sister-in-law's husband murdered! What a horrible day - I need buttered scones and tea now, not tomorrow!
Macalaure, dear, I wonder if you aren't turning your old animosity toward Nogrod onto my sister, and if so, shame on you. I believe she spoke sensibly -I would have answered The Phantom similarly myself, if I had been here. We should look for wolves. After all, even if we find the EW, she has time to make this a wolf-heavy village before she can be defeated. In fact, a day we attempt to lynch the EW is a day we can't lynch a wolf. It is best if the seer and the GW focus on that, and we do all we can to reduce the number of wolves. It is certainly not a given that we will lynch innocents four days in a row - in fact, that would take quite a streak of bad luck or truly lousy playing on our part! The wolves might not know each other, but they also might - and they might shift from one day to the next, but might also not. Certainly they don't change roles all at once, and though it may be more difficult, I think they can be tracked like any other wolves.
Anyway, although TPs advice and behavior were strange, I don't actually find them suspicious at the moment. I do find some of morm's words somewhat disquieting, though. To find a statement about this game's confusing rules suspicious is ill-founded. Frankly, the possibilities make my head hurt, too. Not only this, but I find his way of narrowing the field of possible wolves to be bad advice of the sneaky sort. Not that I think this sort of speculation is a valid way of finding wolves, but if I were the EW, I would choose players I felt were good survivors. After all, the EW can't advise the wolves during the day, not even in code (I doubt very highly she would reveal herself to them) so they are on their own to some extent. Besides, this game has so many strong players, such players don't stand out as they normally would, so there is little reason for the EW to avoid choosing them.
Also, if I were the EW, I would not scry you, son, simply because I don't want to spoil you. :p

EDIT: X'd with Mac and Volo

[Nogrod]

A wizard may scry the same person every Night if she so wishes.

[Cailín]

I strongly doubt that the EW has solely chosen her Wolves from "our less famous, vocal and illustrous villagers". Thinking that way is dangerous, dangerous!

Dangerous? Perhaps. If I were the Evil Wizard, I would choose those players who are unlikely to be scried by the Good Wizard. And if I were the Good Wizard, I would scry those people whom I suspect of Evil Wizardry. I am merely making an attempt to define each group.

My List of Wolves

Lalaith: The perfect wolf. I have always said it.

Izzy: Flies under the radar in a charming, yet lethal submarine manner. In a village as this, it’s an important skill.

Aganzir: Clever. Excellent survivor.

Cailín: Beloved by all, unlikely to get lynched. Yea, I’d choose me.

Kitanna: Another good survivor, not too controversial and may be overlooked by the GW.

Kath: A grizzled werewolf veteran. She could lead a team to victory without getting much attention.

Legate: Sensible, matter-of-fact. Not very lynchable.

Eonwe: New to werewolves. Will probably not be lynched. On the other hand, now the phantom has mentioned the village will have already lost if he’s the evil wizard, he will probably be dead by tomorrow.

Volo: Loud, vocal, but not too controversial and therefore well-liked.

Mormegil: Will undoubtedly not survive till the end, but will live long enough to seriously damage his opponents.

Lhuna: A very unwilling wolf, but a good one nonetheless.

My List of non-Wolves

Lommy: Too popular. She will probably die being scried by two wizards at once, if she’s not a wizard herself.

TP: Too controversial. Too confident. A wizard wants to rule.

Diamond18: Will have offended too many players by Day4 to ever stay alive.

Macalaure: A likely wizard candidate.

Rikae: Too argumentative. Will make enemies. Enemies with pitchforks.

Roa_Aoife: See Rikae. It’s a family thing.

Nilp: Too unpredictable. Hazardous and Tom Bombadil-esque with power.

Brinniel: Dies too easily.

Durelin: Too argumentative and unpredictable.

The Others

Nerwen: Quite argumentative. Could go either way.

The KA, Gwathagor, Sally, McCaber: Not familiar with these players.

Shasta: is somewhat like Brinniel, yet he may have played more games since I formed this impression of him, and may have altered his style.

A Little Green: Will find some way to become suspicious.

Celuien: Would make an excellent wolf according to my terms, but has always functioned much better as an innocent.


No doubt some among you will find this list suspicious and controversial (probably just by virtue of being a list, which I know some of you hate). But it is what I would have done were I a wizard (which I'm not :p)

[mormegil]

++Brinniel

I'm not sure when I'll be around and I'll never really be caught up this day so let's call it a hunch, shall we.

[Kitanna]

Commenting as I read...

Morm~On to wolves, I don't think the EW would pick those who are more obvious, so to speak. I doubt the phantom would be picked at this stage but he could honestly be the EW, though I doubt that.
Or maybe the EW anticipates the village thinking like that and has chosen the most obvious to be wolves. A sneaky and competent EW could pull it off.

Morm~I take statements like this as fairly suspicous comments, all but the bolded one most of all. I don't know why they just don't sit well with me. It always makes me think they are trying to distance themselves with nightly activity.
This is in regards to one of Brinn's posts, a standard opening day post as far as I see. I'm just looking to better understand why you feel this way Morm.

Roa~I'm not saying that the EW isn't important. Obviously both wizards are fundamentally important to the game. (That's why it's Dueling Wizards.) However, I don't think finding her is as "key" as you think it is. Keeping the wolf population low should be our first priority.
But isn't the best way to do that giving the EW the ax early? Though I must say it is more likely we'd catch a wolf early on rather than the EW.

Lhuna~I'm siding with Roa that it is more important for us to find the wolves than the EW.

Cailin~ Let me add to the EW and Wolves discussion (my future son-in-law phantom already managed to evoke some strong reactions, which is always good) that we should attempt to do both find the wolves and guess at the EW’s identity
Aye. Concentrating too hard upon finding one or the other is only going to harm the village. It'll be easier to peg a wolf simply because there's multiple wolves and only one EW.

It's possible to even lynch a wolf today. It's even possible to figure out the EW, but in a village this size it'll be a miracle. The problem with Day 1 is we're pretty blind until Day 2. The problem with all days this time is that wolves can become ordos and a wolf one night could be scried and be good the next after gaining heavy suspicion.

Calin~Kitanna: Another good survivor, not too controversial and may be overlooked by the GW. If only that was true. :rolleyes:

Now I wonder about others on Cailin's suspected wolf and innocent list. Putting out a list such as that could give the EW ideas. "Well, these players are going to be suspected innocent for a while, I should get at least one of them on my side." Given the complex nature of this game, I'd not relay on lists like that. It's often better to read between the lines here. Or at least that is how I see it.

[Thinlómien]

Oh, Sally dear, I'm here now, safe and sound. I just had some problems with my birds, the strange blackbird makes them anxious. The penguins don't like it at all, I daresay. But your dad and your sister... I don't know. Kath last visited us yesterday, as you know, and I haven't seen her after that... And as for my husband, the last time I saw him, he was making some sort of sandwiches. I do hope that they turn up soon. They're alive - as far as I know - unlike some. I'm so sorry and shocked to see our venerable judge and the brave husband of my sister-in-law die, but we must not dwell on that grief any longer, but focus on the horrors at hand.

In the great whether to find the EW or the wolves debate, I'm inclined to side with Mrs Roa and the others agreeing with her. Our primary duty is to find the wolves. If we find the EW, it's good, but it's not what we should be precisely aiming at. So, in my opinion, we should concentrate on finding wolves, but be aware of EWish vibes as well, and we should primarily lynch wolves, but if someone looks more like EW than anyone looks like a wolf, we should go on and vote him. Like Aunt Izzie and my dear big brother Mac said, there really is no contradiction here. I think it's more a question of priorities.

I kind of wanted to be a nasty mother-in-law, but Brinniel's words make sense. I think she brought up one of the most fundamental points about looking for wolves and EW here:Okay, so we know there aren't connections between the wolves as they probably don't know of each other. So we should look for a different connection...and that'd be between the EW and the wolves. By lynching wolves, we will have better clues to who the EW may be.Even if it may be a little, we may find the EW (almost typed "BW" :D) by looking at how people have treated the dead wolves and who have they been.

This rather unchaste young girl, Aganzir, doesn't quite sit right with me. To be honest, something in her cheery and flirty manner annoys me. (I wonder if it's because I can imagine what sort of extremely irritating expression characteristic to her she is having when smirking behind her laptotp and typing. :p) Normally, when she grabs my attention this way, she's innocent (she's more careful as a wolf, I think), but now my gut feeling tells me that might not be so. I'm keeping an eye on her.

THE Ka seems a bit too confused to be a wizard, or a wolf either. But one should not forget how treacherous she can be...

I think tp does not look partciularly suspicious. I think he's being his own baffling self trying to give a rather intimidating and smart impression... And I think he's just being intentionally pessimistic, whatever purpose that is supposed to serve. It could be to make the evil team too confident, it could be to make the goodies lose motivation or be scared or just to amuse himself. Whatever he says should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Morm's attitude makes me think he's probably innocent. But of course I cannot be sure.

I think it's better to make a concerted effort to find the EW, than to scramble about every day trying to flush out that day's unique wolf line-up.That is a futile point, as the wolf line-up doesn't really change that much...

Volo makes sense here:
1. Wolf - scry: Baddies lose one player, goodies gain.
2. Wolf - lynch: Baddies lose one player.
3. EW - scry: EW revealed to GW.
4. EW - lynch: EW revealed to all.Yet I'm reluctant to follow this idea. The GW should be allowed to do whatever she pleases, and if we start hunting the EW, she is forced to go after the wolves. Besides, there's just one EW but at least three wolves, so finding a wolf would be statictically easier for a dumb mob. ;)

Lastly, I've been looking at the village map and it makes me suspicios of Nerwen and Cailín. I cannot trust anyone who breeds hairless pink guinea pigs or anyone who has a patch for "decent wolves" (like I first read). *would add some nasty smiley if hadn't passed the limit already*


edit: xed with Cailín, morm and Kit

[A Little Green]

Did anyone else wonder at this?We Wolves are just as clueless about who's who as the rest of us (exceptions being the Wizards and the Seer). (I accidentally posted this as Lommy and deleted it, in case someone saw it and wondered.)

[Cailín]

Did anyone else wonder at this? (I accidentally posted this as Lommy and deleted it, in case someone saw it and wondered.)

I had not noticed but I doubt it is anything but a typo. If anything, it makes Volo look more innocent, because werewolves would be more careful to avoid mistakes such as that.

[Macalaure]

1. Wolf - scry: Baddies lose one player, goodies gain.
2. Wolf - lynch: Baddies lose one player.
3. EW - scry: EW revealed to GW.
4. EW - lynch: EW revealed to all.
1. is better than 2. and 4. is better than 3. Ah, but for heaven's sake, why don't we just search for Baddies and not discuss how we should do it and whether we should search for only some baddies and not others. Come on!Exactly my opinion, especially the latter part.

After all, even if we find the EW, she has time to make this a wolf-heavy village before she can be defeated.I might risk sleeping on the couch by this, but I have to disagree with you, my love. If by the time the EW can finally be defeated we still haven't found him, we find ourselves in a situation that is difficult to describe in family-friendly terms. ;)


Did anyone else wonder at this?We Wolves are just as clueless about who's who as the rest of us (exceptions being the Wizards and the Seer).I'm not sure what's worse: Volo making a statement that can be read as a wolf slip (but I remember an ancestor of him making a wolf slip while being innocent, too :rolleyes:), or A Little Green pointing out the quote - without any opinion of her own - in order to have the mob feast on it while keeping her own hands clean.

[Celuien]

And so ye candle maker arrives late... there's a new invention I've been working on - a candle that burns at both ends. Not quite perfected yet, but eventually I think it will work. And already so much to read. Which I haven't read. But will after adding a few rambling thoughts to the discussion.

At this point, I think our best chances as a village lie with the scrying and seering. The usual daytime teamwork patterns can't be counted upon as a way to look for evil since there's no way to know if the wolves know each other's identities - and I would doubt that at this early point that they would as there's too much chance of flux from one side to the other. By the same token, it's high unlikely that they know the EW's identity. And other sneaky behaviors can't even be counted on because the wolves are perfectly replaceable while the village is still this large, and for all we know might be out there as cannon fodder to distract and confuse the search for the EW, who's really the one that has to be discovered to stabilize the werewolf population flux and make it possible for the village to be victorious.

I guess there's one thing, though. I'm not going to go by werewolf lore too much of who makes a good what because I think it has distracted my ancestors too much in the past... and I think that there has been a long enough gap between my family's witnessing werewolf infestations to make that possible this time. :smokin:

[THE Ka]

OKay, back for a little bit. Don't keep your hopes up, I'll be gone for the next few hours today with some freetime inbetween, though I'll be here before the deadline.

If a wolf is turned to an ordo, what reason would they have to keep whatever information they learned a secret? The same for an ordo>gifted>ordo>wolf?


Don't count me anywhere close to an 'expert' (and I repeat, don't... first time playing DW), but the reason I can see is fear of other wolves you don't yet know about attacking you that Night. Granted at that time the EW hasn't settled on letting all wolves know one another, just a few for strategic purposes. (If that happens, well great for us! Though, I don't think the EW would blunder that much).

Besides, there's just one EW but at least three wolves, so finding a wolf would be statictically easier for a dumb mob. ;)


No offense taken, I'd rather hunt a wolf than end up dead or with any more wolves. :p

As well then, an EW would probably be more than delighted if we went on a wild chase after them with little to no knowledge, and left them to busily add to their werewolf collection in the meantime. Wolves on the other hand, even if they are not certain whom their fellows are, would probably 'join in' anyways for safety, with us being too concerned about how and whom the EW is.
So if anything, finding someone of the others is better than none.

That's all I can think of for now, hopefully I'll have time later to read more posts. Ta ta for now.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

My poor father! And my poor... erm... whoever the man was :p

Sally, thank you for your kind, albeit a little bloodthirsty at first, words. Go and comfort your aunt, I am fine now, and I will voice my opinions among the other villagers... (or should I say: family-members...)

Some comments made on the way to different posts that caught my eye, sorry for it being so long and somewhat badly arranged (and maybe difficult to read for the quotes), but that's just how I went when reading, and the size of the village... Just for now, here we go:

I take statements like this as fairly suspicous comments, all but the bolded one most of all. I don't know why they just don't sit well with me. It always makes me think they are trying to distance themselves with nightly activity.
You mean, trying to distance themselves from nightly activity? If this is so, I don't think so... simply a comment and nothing more.

Or the EW could have counted on people assuming that no one obvious would be picked and so picked the most obvious. We can't know for certain, and so we shouldn't rule anyone out.
Quite.
No, we can't no for certain can we? However, I consider playing the odds the best bet at this stage of the game. If I were the EW, well I would pick...well there's something I must do but I will be back.
I think this doesn't have as big value as you make it seem. The village is too large, the options are too many, peoples' opinions are too different (a Wizard might have picked anybody), although of course yes, such things may be helpful, but they might prove all too tricky if we for example tried to discern whether a person we suspect is a Wolf based on that. "I suspect X, but in fact, I don't think the EW would've picked him, so I say let him go." That would be certainly the worst thing to do with such knowledge. But besides, and we already saw Cailín do that, why not.

Sorry to sound simple, but if I remember someone saying correctly that both the GW and EW control the actions of their servants, and can overide any decision, action, hidden message and their natures in the game as well. I understand that it makes sense to keep all of your ducks in a row and use them in good time, but why would someone in such a position be so nervous about whom they relate with, if they are the only ones who can talk with them? The seer is the only possibility of ultimately figuring out the identity of anyone, and obviously would be lucky to bag a werewolf, let alone their leader (or, at least figure out who's their fellow gifted).
Like someone before, I am not sure what is meant by this. But simply, concerning this topic: I think the EW would not tell the Wolves who she is, and she could eventually tell them who the other Wolves are, but with some tactic planning - to which size, I can't tell. Well who knows.

The reason the EW may not want the wolves to know her identity is because if the GW scries a werewolf, that wolf imediately changes sides and becomes an ordo. More importantly, an ordo who knows the identity of the EW and can share it with the village. Each wizard wants to protect their own identity sso that they can challenge the other wizard on their own terms, ie. when the conditions are in favor of their respective teams. So the EW is hesitant to the wolves any information.
Well, quite.

I can't remember who said what exactly (it's late for me), but it seems like the key here is to try to track down the Evil Wizard, because he/she is constant whereas the wolves can change any day. In the couple of games that I have played, a case is usually built against a player over a period of several days, based on voting records and other accumulated evidence and suspicion. Hardly ever is the first person lynched a wolf, which I think demonstrates that a single day is rarely enough to identify a baddie, which is why I think it's better to make a concerted effort to find the EW, than to scramble about every day trying to flush out that day's unique wolf line-up. No, I'm not saying "don't look for wolves." But I do think most of our energy should be directed towards tracking down the EW. In my opinion.
Not sure about this. I think the wolves are somewhat more important to take care of, but...
I'm not saying that the EW isn't important. Obviously both wizards are fundamentally important to the game. (That's why it's Dueling Wizards.) However, I don't think finding her is as "key" as you think it is. Keeping the wolf population low should be our first priority.
Yes, the wolves are the most important thing. But in any case, if one suspects a person for being a Wolf, or the EW, simply, he should go for it. It does not matter in the end - baddie is a baddie.
Why must it be a choice of either focusing on the wolves, or focusing on the EW? Can we not multi-task? The GW is perhaps better equiped at finding the EW, yet there is no crime in helping her out.
That's what I thought, summing it up quite nicely.

Firstly, I'm quite baffled by the phantom (actually, I'm quite baffled about everything...). I don't get the meaning of this, I'm afraid, and I don't like the way it's phrased. Also, I'm uneasy about the way he seems to be deliberately attention-seeking with all the "if I was the EW" and "please scry me" and -comments. I don't think the EW would behave that way though, and I'm not entirely convinced that a wolf would, either, but... There's something weird about him, but I can't say what. (Mac, my son, whatever did you and that Rikae feed him when he was a kid?)
I am not sure about tp. If you ask what they fed him, I would guess they fed him cobblers - but that's (fortunately) impossible. By the way, let me add a corresponding thought.Anyway, I wonder whether wolves will act differently in this game than usual. I mean, usually they fall somewhere in the interval between just staying hidden and actively trying to lynch innocents. Here, they could have the additional task to divert our eyes (and the eyes of GW and seer) from the EW. Also, since the wolves can be remade, the loss of one is not as crucial as it is in a regular village. This might be less careful about not being lynched than usual.
Even though someone mentioned the possibility of Wolves given suicidal tasks here, it is still a loss for the EW if a wolf is lynched; she cannot win that way. She wins by getting huuuundreds (okay, maybe not as much. Just huundreds) of wolves here (of course, she can win by delaying... but by delaying, the possibility of a scry on her rises).

As for phantom, I think he is just "showing off" and trying to really be scried by the Wizards because he wants to enjoy it - in this I'd believe him saying his honest feelings :p

I strongly doubt that the EW has solely chosen her Wolves from "our less famous, vocal and illustrous villagers". Thinking that way is dangerous, dangerous! If I were an EW I'd put a bit from her a bit from there. One or two "famous, vocal and illustrous villagers", one or two less so and one or two of completely not so (if we have any of those around).
Good point, however then as the Wizards sent a list, it may happen that let's say there were three "famous etc" villagers, and three "normal" etc. and it ended up being picked that there are three "famous", you get what I mean? But that's just to mention this option.

By the way, Volo's points (like that list 1.2.3.4. of his) make sense, however for some reason I have the feeling that he's not being himself.

I had not noticed but I doubt it is anything but a typo. If anything, it makes Volo look more innocent, because werewolves would be more careful to avoid mistakes such as that.
I also feel to not giving it any value. However as for seeing him more innocent because of that, I would not think so, as he may have been given a task, bah, whatever... I simply think it makes no sense to give any value to it.

I'm not sure what's worse: Volo making a statement that can be read as a wolf slip (but I remember an ancestor of him making a wolf slip while being innocent, too), or A Little Green pointing out the quote - without any opinion of her own - in order to have the mob feast on it while keeping her own hands clean.
I also thought similarly.

All in all - I like Mac, I feel good about Lommy... and maybe even about Aganzir (although, you'd better stay away from my girlfriend, okay? If you have any problems, it's no longer my concern! :p ! ) I don't like Volo, somewhat I am aware of Greenie and of Gwath, but then I know it may be a mistake... although the last time he was... hmph. I don't know what to think about phantom... though I would think he's ordo... anyway, there's so many people I can't name them all.

EDIT: x-ed with Cel and Ka

[Aganzir]

Correction, I believe the term is warlock...not wizard.
In Finnish there's just one word for a male witch. :P

In other villages the WWs work together and know their fellow pack members. In this village... well, honestly, there's no way the EW told all his WWs who he is and who their fellows are. That would be too risky.
The way this is written is odd. It looks like formulated, something you have decided to say beforehand. And I wouldn't be so early wholly ruling out the possibility that the wolves know one another and/or the EW.

"After all, I'm not the one dating my cousin."
And I am not the one cheating on his girlfriend, or the one making out in public with someone you knew had a girlfriend. :Merisu:

"Or, child, I do wonder about that... ruffian you choose to cavort with-"
Ah but I have no worries about him. I know what he was doing for the most part of last night. ...At least I suppose it was him and not Gwath. They look so same I can't always tell.

I take statements like this as fairly suspicous comments, all but the bolded one most of all. I don't know why they just don't sit well with me. It always makes me think they are trying to distance themselves with nightly activity.
I often do the same, ie try to find wolves based on how they say things, but I don't really think saying that makes Brinn more suspicious. Mainly because I think so, too.

Okay, so we know there aren't connections between the wolves as they probably don't know of each other.
How come you're so sure?
This looks awfully much like a Brinn-wolf who doesn't know her fellows and states the fact as her opinion as she's afraid she might slip it later.

Now I wonder about others on Cailin's suspected wolf and innocent list. Putting out a list such as that could give the EW ideas.
And if I say "Nerwen is the good wizard and the gifteds are Nilp, Kath and Eönwë!" it will give the EW ideas and she will go after them?
Quite honestly, I assume the wizards have played enough so that they have at least some kind of ideas about what the players are like.

The only suspicious thing I can see about Cailín's list is that making it is an easy way to gain allies by being nice to people. Like, I have never played with her before yet she called me clever - therefore she must be innocent too, since she sees I'm making sense!

Did anyone else wonder at this?
I think it looked like an example of what wolf talk would be like, but that "the rest of us" leaves me baffled.
But I wouldn't count it as an argument neither for nor against Volo yet.

**

Innocent
morm. He makes sense and looks innocent.
Isabell. I agree with her and she looks honest.

Guilty
Ka, because she's always evil. ;)
phantom. In truth he's the EW, and is just bluffing. Ok, well, he looks like he has deliberately chosen the way he plays, and to choose that makes people look unnatural and insincere.
I don't know about sally, but she makes me feel uneasy. Usually she's crazier and somehow less careful.
I don't like Gwath either. The way he says we should be looking for the EW rather than wolves is suspicious. There are others who have said quite the same, but Gwath just makes it look like he were a wolf and trying to distract attention away from himself.
Hardly ever is the first person lynched a wolf, which I think demonstrates that a single day is rarely enough to identify a baddie, which is why I think it's better to make a concerted effort to find the EW
And if an innocent is lynched today and the EW curses a new wolf next night, the wolves will get two kills, and that's certainly what they are aiming at. So wolves shouldn't be looked for?
Brinniel. This is a gut feeling, but she looks a bit too dishonest and a bit too careful.

edit: xed with Celuien, Ka & Legate

[satansaloser2005]

It's good to see more people talking, and though it's a fairly typical first day it's shaping up fairly nicely. Sadly, I took an afterNoon nap (aka I slept in) so I don't have time to read the posts as thoroughly as I'd like. For now, though, the player that I remember bothering me the most is Phantom. Now, Legate, I know he's a good business partner and all, but for today at least my vote must go towards him.

++Phantom



(I'll probably be out for the rest of the Day, unless I manage to snag some wireless over break, so provided that I'm not lynched or night killed or something I'll see you all toMorrow)

Oh, and Noggie, thanks for clearing that up! :)

[Kath]

*hugs Brinn* ... and beats morm over the head for voting for my loved one!

I'll admit it, this is a checking in post, I have been charged with sorting dinner out so I won't be around for a bit. You'll have me all evening though!

Just something though as I did skim the posts on my way through. I understand what phantom was saying about needing to focus on getting the EW, but I think we're more likely to catch wolves than wizards and we do need to ensure we get some of those as well or we're going up to scary numbers of deaths in a 48 hour period and lessening our chances statistics wise.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

*whispers to himself, looking at Aganzir* Now I recall why I liked her... Oh my. She makes sense. She was always clever. Only she had to become such a hateful person...

Anyway, I guess I'm going to be off for a short while... but will return soon to see what's happened.

Sally, my dear, feel free to vote for Phantom, I am not going to blame you for that... although I probably won't stand by you in this decision, you must understand he has been my friend and business partner for too long... not to mention he is my cousin (well who isn't, right... apart from you maybe...). But as I said, at least for now, I won't even suspect him that much. I think he has always been like that...

Will be back.

[Roa_Aoife]

Quick post before I head off to work- I'll be back on my lunch break to vote.



Now I just talked about wolves maybe acting differently, and then I spot a classic "I'm not suspicious, but I'm suspicious" already on the first page.

It was only his first post. Even I'm not that good at wolf spotting. I'm suspicious of everyone. I'm extra suspicious of phantom, but I'm not certain. Or at least I wasn't after one post. Is that a better way to state it?

The GW is going to search for the EW with his scries. Picking someone as a wolf who could be assumed to be the EW is unwise, because the chance that the person will be turned back into an ordo due to the searching GW is high.

Every EW will work differently. The EW could have picked someone who was high profile as a smokescreen to hide behind. Look, the second we start ruling people out, those are the people the EW will pick. Trust me on that one- I was there. Let's not make the choice any easier for her. Trying to avoid the GW was only one of concerns, and it was more from the fact that I'd be discovered by him if we scried the same person at the same time. He was theonly one who could stop me, and so he was the only one I feared. That is no longer a problem.

When I was the EW, I picked wolves from all over. I had high profile wolves, I had under-the-radar wolves, I had wolves that I planned to sacrifice. I'm trying to share what I learned from my experience with the village. Never rule anyone out as a potential wolf, and no one except the GW is a known innocent until they're dead.

Rikae: Too argumentative. Will make enemies. Enemies with pitchforks.

Roa_Aoife: See Rikae. It’s a family thing.

Again, I don't think anyone should be ruled out, but this made me giggle all over.

At this point, I think our best chances as a village lie with the scrying and seering. The usual daytime teamwork patterns can't be counted upon as a way to look for evil since there's no way to know if the wolves know each other's identities - and I would doubt that at this early point that they would as there's too much chance of flux from one side to the other. By the same token, it's high unlikely that they know the EW's identity. And other sneaky behaviors can't even be counted on because the wolves are perfectly replaceable while the village is still this large, and for all we know might be out there as cannon fodder to distract and confuse the search for the EW, who's really the one that has to be discovered to stabilize the werewolf population flux and make it possible for the village to be victorious.

I find any post that says, "Oh we can't find the werewolves, best not to try" to be not only flawed but suspicious. Wolves still lie. They still misdirect. They are still trying to kill the village. Cailin's post here echoes the post by phantom (not his first) that really sounded off my warning bells. Why, exactly, should the wolves being replaceable decrease the usual sneaky behaviors?

Tight now, I'm a little suspicious of the wafflers, "I think this, but I also think the opposite," but I haven't seen enough yet to form any hard opinions, so I'm not pointing them out (yet.)

Bah! Why bother trying to find Wolves?

There aren't any!

At least, not what any of us would call Wolves.

In other villages the WWs work together and know their fellow pack members. In this village... well, honestly, there's no way the EW told all his WWs who he is and who their fellows are. That would be too risky.

Thus a "Wolf" is simply an Ordo who counts as a WW in the tally.

This post is both unhelpful and deeply flawed. It's basically telling us to ignore all methods for hunting wolves, even the ones that have nothing to do with connections, by suggesting that they won't work. This is misinformation, a common tactic used by werewolves. At least high profile illustrious werewolves.

I have to go (I'm late already) but I find the people who keep ruling out the "high profile" wolves to be suspicious, especially the ones who are conveniently high profile.

Edit: cross posted with legate onward

[Gwathagor]

I don't like Gwath either. The way he says we should be looking for the EW rather than wolves is suspicious. There are others who have said quite the same, but Gwath just makes it look like he were a wolf and trying to distract attention away from himself.

And if an innocent is lynched today and the EW curses a new wolf next night, the wolves will get two kills, and that's certainly what they are aiming at. So wolves shouldn't be looked for?


I specifically said that I did NOT mean we shouldn't look for wolves. Don't twist my words, dearest sister-in-law to be. :)

Because I can't be here during the deadline for RL work reasons, so I have to vote now.

++Sally

[Durelin]

Cailin's *if I were a Wizard cause I'm not* list is...odd. It seems like the biggest waste of time yet. Even if the EW thought, as Cailin suggested, that they should pick wolves from "among our less famous, vocal and illustrous villagers"...her list really doesn't follow that, in my opinion. And that's all it is, opinion.

If a wolf is turned to an ordo, what reason would they have to keep whatever information they learned a secret? The same for an ordo>gifted>ordo>wolf?

Don't count me anywhere close to an 'expert' (and I repeat, don't... first time playing DW), but the reason I can see is fear of other wolves you don't yet know about attacking you that Night. Granted at that time the EW hasn't settled on letting all wolves know one another, just a few for strategic purposes. (If that happens, well great for us! Though, I don't think the EW would blunder that much).

Here's another point - if the EW loses a Wolf, I imagine they'll know about it, and they might set the lost Wolf as their remaining Wolves' target, mightn't they?

Anyway.

Ka seems to be playing up the "never played DW, not really sure what's going on" thing. (I mean, I'm hardly confident with all this, but...) Her posts have been rather boring. I'm used to them being a bit more interesting.

Sally's use of the diminutive 'Durie' makes me cringe. Her ridiculously easy vote for phantom causes considerable discomfort. And I agree with Aganzir that she seems to be playing nicely and carefully. In other words she's boring atm.

But, maybe Roa and phantom are wolves together and just don't know it, cause that would be funnnn.

Aganzir bothers me and I don't know why. For one thing, I don't know how she feels comfortable saying much of anything about Isabel. One post, with in-character banter, repeating a bunch of things already said (basically summarizing the whole Roa v. phantom and discussion proceeding from that), and asking one question, also related to the EW and wolves discussion. Hmm, I will definitely be looking at Isabel more...

Is Aganzir the first to suggest that the phantom is a bluffing-like-crazy EW? (morm mentioned that he thinks the phantom probably wouldn't be picked as a wolf early on but could be the EW, but that hardly strikes the same chord.) Well, doesn't matter if she's first. I just find myself uncomfortable with anyone making that suggestion because it's so...easy. I mean, it's the phantom. It's the phantom who's begging for attention. phantom to Evil Wizard...not much of a stretch.

On the other hand, though, I'm for some reason prepared to believe Cailin would post her 'list o' possible wolf choices' even as the EW...a little. So maybe I'm being stupid (or biased...never trusted my mother)... Certainly I am clueless.

< / rambling >

Edit: Crossed with Gwath and Roa.

[Aganzir]

although, you'd better stay away from my girlfriend, okay? If you have any problems, it's no longer my concern!
I'm just happy to see her kill you some night then!

I specifically said that I did NOT mean we shouldn't look for wolves. Don't twist my words, dearest sister-in-law to be.
Yes you said, but the rest of your post looked like how I interpreted it.

Here's another point - if the EW loses a Wolf, I imagine they'll know about it, and they might set the lost Wolf as their remaining Wolves' target, mightn't they?
Yes. But even then there's a possibility that the ranger's protecting the ex-wolf in question - the GW certainly wouldn't want to lose someone who might know a great deal of the evil team's plans.

For one thing, I don't know how she feels comfortable saying much of anything about Isabel.
To be honest I didn't quite even realise she had just one post, but the way it was written looked innocent to me. Surely you aren't assuming I will think so for the rest of the game?
I think you're pretty much grasping at straws there.

Well, doesn't matter if she's first. I just find myself uncomfortable with anyone making that suggestion because it's so...easy. I mean, it's the phantom. It's the phantom who's begging for attention. phantom to Evil Wizard...not much of a stretch.
I've never played with the phantom before I think. But I tend to think everyone should say what they see, and if he looks like a possible EW I rather say it aloud.

[Macalaure]

Thank you for liking me, Legate, and apologies for not being able to return that sentiment.

I'm aware that I need to be careful not to suspect people solely for agreeing with Roa. However, the way you emphasize her point that we just can't know anything about who the wizard might be or who he could have picked is suspicious to me.

I am not sure about tp. If you ask what they fed him, I would guess they fed him cobblers - but that's (fortunately) impossible.
You simply discard an opinion which you do not share (I only guess so, since you don't address tp's points directly) as cobblery? Very hasty, my friend - demagogic even, if one looks at it ill-meaningly. Some elaboration?

Even though someone mentioned the possibility of Wolves given suicidal tasks here, it is still a loss for the EW if a wolf is lynched; she cannot win that way.I didn't say that. Of course it is still a loss, but not as fatal as in a regular village. Are their tasks suicidal? Unlikely. But he can afford to give tasks which are a little more risky. Sacrificing a wolf for the sake of surviving for one more day himself makes absolute sense to him, for example.


Like: Aganzir, Kitanna, phantom, morm

Some like: Volo, Ka, Sally, Isabellkya, Lommy, Durelin

Only a little like: Lhuna, A Little Green

Not very much like: Shasta (shady agreement with Roa), Cailin (really not sure what to make of her list), Legate

No like: Roa (what I said earlier, plus a simple very bad hunch I got from her last post)

Really not sure: Brinniel, Lalaith, Gwath, Rikae, Celuien, Kath

Still asleep: Nilp, Eonwe, Diamond, Nerwen, McCaber.


PS: Roa, you mixed up my quotes and morm's.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You simply discard an opinion which you do not share (I only guess so, since you don't address tp's points directly) as cobblery? Very hasty, my friend - demagogic even, if one looks at it ill-meaningly. Some elaboration?

Not sure if I got what in particular you, how to call that, accuse me of, so I will explain what I meant by this: I meant that I don't think phantom would be a wolf, but he could as well be a cobbler given his behavior. However, as no cobblers are in this game, he obviously isn't one. Then, as you read my posts later, going along these lines, my conclusion was that he is probably ordo.

I didn't say that. Of course it is still a loss, but not as fatal as in a regular village. Are their tasks suicidal? Unlikely. But he can afford to give tasks which are a little more risky. Sacrificing a wolf for the sake of surviving for one more day himself makes absolute sense to him, for example.

Of course. But the combination of words"they could have the additional task to divert our eyes from the EW" and immediately following "the wolves can be remade, the loss of one is not as crucial as it is in a regular village", obviously conjures in one's mind the idea of a wolf stepping forward into the village's discussion in order to turn the suspicion on himself and not the EW.

[Cailín]

Cailin's *if I were a Wizard cause I'm not* list is...odd. It seems like the biggest waste of time yet. Even if the EW thought, as Cailin suggested, that they should pick wolves from "among our less famous, vocal and illustrous villagers"...her list really doesn't follow that, in my opinion. And that's all it is, opinion.

Of course, it's opinion. If we all pitch in with our opinions then perhaps we shall reach a consensus.

The difference between this WW game and others is that there is a substantially smaller degree of randomness here. When we talk of who would apply to be a wizard, or who a wizard would want as a wolf, or as a gifted, we are dealing with probabilities, however slight.

And on Day 1, when we have almost nothing to do but sift through roleplaying posts and criticise others for not being helpful, I believe it can be worthwhile to speculate.

[Durelin]

I think you're pretty much grasping at straws there.

It's clutching. But really, I think you are, too/being defensive. Or maybe you're just frustrated cause you really think I'm an idiot. My argument wasn't just "Isabel's only posted once, Aganzir determines she is innocent, thus Aganzir doesn't look innocent." I didn't take up a whole paragraph just to say that. You make me uncomfortable. I don't know why. Have I played with you before? It shouldn't matter, but...yeah, it probably does.

Edit: Response to Cailin's posty: Uh...reach a consensus? You never reach a consensus in these games, and you never should! Why? Because we're not all on the same side! Also, there is no possible way I am ever compromising. That's what I hate perhaps the most about this game - people always compromising about who to vote for. "Eh, they're not really all that guilty, but it doesn't look like anyone's going to vote for who I really think is guilty, so I'm going to just contribute a useless vote and maybe get lucky."

[Macalaure]

Not sure if I got what in particular you, how to call that, accuse me of, so I will explain what I meant by this: I meant that I don't think phantom would be a wolf, but he could as well be a cobbler given his behavior. However, as no cobblers are in this game, he obviously isn't one. Then, as you read my posts later, going along these lines, my conclusion was that he is probably ordo.What I meant was exactly this "given his behaviour". You say that it is cobblerish. I personally don't think this conclusion is obvious, so I'd like to see your reasons, especially given the fact that it is a very easy way to discredit a person's opinions as a whole (that's what I meant by "demagogic").

Of course. But the combination of words"they could have the additional task to divert our eyes from the EW" and immediately following "the wolves can be remade, the loss of one is not as crucial as it is in a regular village", obviously conjures in one's mind the idea of a wolf stepping forward into the village's discussion in order to turn the suspicion on himself and not the EW.Ah, I see. It was not in my intent to say that, of course. :)

[McCaber]

Well, I'm here. Lamentations about uncle Noggie and that other guy, etc. Aganzir, my love, we'll get through this just fine.

Now, to business. Right now, the phantom looks innocent to me. sally is slightly worrying, as is Cailin. I'll be back with some more solid info, but that'll have to do for now.

[Nerwen]

Hello, my friends and relations (most of you are both, come to think of it). I'm so sorry to have deserted our afflicted village in its hour of need. I have been gathering herbs to ease the pain of my brother's death. Like to try some, anyone? No?

For a while, now, I have been standing aside, listening to what others have to say. Which has been as follows:

1. We should try and lynch wolves.

2. No, we should try and lynch the Evil Wizard.

3. No, we should try and lynch them both.

People seem much more reluctant to put forward any method of achieving any of these goals. The only suggestions I've heard have been, "Guess on basis of personality" and, "Lynch people until we find some wolves, and then we'll know who picked them". I don't find either of these plans appealing (as a healer, I shrink from unnecessary bloodshed).

As has been pointed out (much) more than once, we cannot count on spotting wolf interactions, since the wolves may not know who each other are. I don't see why this is such an issue. My training in healing touched on the unpleasant subject of lycanthropy. According to the ancient lore passed on to me from the earliest times, werewolves often don't show much in the way of pack behaviour on Day 1 anyway... but there are other ways in which they may reveal their beastly nature.

Some of them have been known to use diversionary tactics such as

1. Starting/continuing pointless debates

2. Making lots of "empty" posts full of banter or non-specific general statements that seem helpful but aren't when you look at them closely

3. Repeating what other people have said already.

The only problem is that there's been so much of that toDay, it's hard to know where to start.:rolleyes:

Edit: X'd since Legate at #77.

[Nerwen]

A thought:

According to the ancient knowledge that has been passed down to me through untold generations of healers, the person sacrificed on Day 1 is usually an innocent– but his or her death is not always in vain, since it may cause the wolves to give themselves away.

Unfortunately, if the wolves don't know each others' identities (or that of the EW), the voting pattern may not help much toMorrow. I'd expect the wolves to be much less ready to jump on the nearest bandwagon than usual.

On the other hand, if they do know each others' identities, all these suggestions to the contrary could be just an attempt to plant a meme in our heads, so we'll ignore the evidence. Okay, maybe that's farfetched, but strange things happen in WW.

[Volo]

The only problem is that there's been so much of that toDay, it's hard to know where to start.:rolleyes:
That was Nogrod's original idea.

Greenie's (although I liked calling her Lily) post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=557207&postcount=53) looks wrong. What she says there is that tp is a Gifted or the GW as if he's not the EW or a Wolf but is neither a normal villager-- And I think such things shouldn't be said aloud! I find such kind of posts suspicious.

Aganzir on the other hand feels more Innocent than usually, though a bit nastier and funnier. I'm not completely sure, but her posts #68 and #75 look quite sincere.

Which brings to Sally and her vote. It looks quite nasty as it comes right after Aganzir's accusation of tp. It's an easy vote, but I won't vote her for just that.

Myself, I find tp a more evil (not meaning he's a more likely Baddie) Fea at the moment. I haven't played with him before, but there's the same quite alarming "don't care" attitude like with Fea, especially when she was a Wolf.

I'm also slightly uneasy about Celuien and Cailín, I can't really say what it is, the way they have phraised their posts or their attitude (mainly Celuien's). I agree with both to some point, but, but, but.

Ok, nothing really decisive from me at the moment.

edit: Xd with Nerwen

[Volo]

My "We Wolves" was a typo (why can I imagine myself saying this even if I were a Wolf), we -> the. By "us" I meant everybody who's not a Wolf.

1. Wolf - scry: Baddies lose one player, goodies gain.
2. Wolf - lynch: Baddies lose one player.
3. EW - scry: EW revealed to GW.
4. EW - lynch: EW revealed to all.
Actually two more variations have to be added:
5. Ordo - scry: GW knows the role and maybe assigns a new one.
6. Ordo - lynch: Goodies lose one player.
Drat, I forgot what my point was supposed to be. Probably trying to contradict what I said before, ah well. 5. is slightly better than 6.

I'll be around, but before sending more opinions I'll do some notes and think.

[A Little Green]

I'm not sure what's worse: Volo making a statement that can be read as a wolf slip (but I remember an ancestor of him making a wolf slip while being innocent, too ), or A Little Green pointing out the quote - without any opinion of her own - in order to have the mob feast on it while keeping her own hands clean.Now, son, I didn't (or don't) know what to think about it myself. I felt the need to point it out in case someone else could read something from it. I didn't find it necessary to say "I don't know what to say about it" or "it could be a slip or it could not or... etc".

Greenie's (although I liked calling her Lily) post looks wrong. What she says there is that tp is a Gifted or the GW as if he's not the EW or a Wolf but is neither a normal villager-- And I think such things shouldn't be said aloud! I find such kind of posts suspicious. Actually I never thought he might be the GW or a gifted... To me he feels like neither. (And feel free to call me Lily if it suits you better. I like both. :))

Sally and Gwath's votes both made me fairly uneasy, though for different reasons. Sally's, like someone said, looked a bit too easy. Gwath's I don't like because voting without stating any reasons for the choice is both unhelpful (if having suspicions about someone, one should at least reason them a bit if he really wants that one lynched) and irritating and never fails to make me suspicious.

I read Gwath's posts. Maybe I'm slow but I only just realised that he not only voted without stating a reason but also said No, I'm not saying "don't look for wolves." But I do think most of our energy should be directed towards tracking down the EW. In my opinion. Besides my disagreement with his opinion, I don't like the way he states it. The addition of the "In my opinion" to the end feels pointless to me in every other sense than in a looking nice -sense which looks fishy. So, all in all, Gwath looks pretty bad to me at the moment.

Other than that, this debate leaves me quite baffled so that's all from me at the moment. I'll let Lommy post now and meanwhile try to gather some more substance.


EDIT: x-ed with 1 x Volo

[Aganzir]

And on Day 1, when we have almost nothing to do but sift through roleplaying posts and criticise others for not being helpful, I believe it can be worthwhile to speculate.
I disagree. Even though the degree of randomness is a bit smaller than usual, there are too many different possibilities for speculating to be of any use - it's still waste of time. And just speculating on things like that instead of talking about people benefits only the evil team.

The way Cailín speaks and still leaves the impression of not saying anything makes me uneasy, especially given random comments like that.

It's clutching.
Thanks. Today seems to be one of those days I can't use any word right. :rolleyes:

But really, I think you are, too/being defensive. Or maybe you're just frustrated cause you really think I'm an idiot. My argument wasn't just "Isabel's only posted once, Aganzir determines she is innocent, thus Aganzir doesn't look innocent." I didn't take up a whole paragraph just to say that. You make me uncomfortable. I don't know why. Have I played with you before? It shouldn't matter, but...yeah, it probably does.
At least once - in Saucie's game a year ago. But you died on the first night so I'm not sure if it counts. :p
Anyway I suppose I always get defensive if I'm suspected with grounds that don't really make sense to me.

I don't like Legate (oooh what a surprise! :p). He looks probably the most opportunistic this far, I can't really put my finger on it. There's the same kind speaking-but-not-saying-anything air as about Cailín. And his posts look somewhat... formulated and restrained.

I think Mac and Volo look more or less innocent for now.

Great to see that my darling McCaber and Aunt Nerwen have arrived. But what about Nilp, Eönwë and Diamond?

edit: xed with Volo & Greenie

[Nerwen]

Oh dear, my poor Grandpa. I hadn't even noticed that "we wolves" thing. But I'd like to point out that an innocent ancestor of Volo's once admitted that it was "possible" he was a wolf. But it's also reasonable of Greenie to point that out. Somebody had to.

Edit: X'd with Niece Aganzir.

[THE Ka]

The usual daytime teamwork patterns can't be counted upon as a way to look for evil since there's no way to know if the wolves know each other's identities - and I would doubt that at this early point that they would as there's too much chance of flux from one side to the other.

Okay, so what do you suggest?
I can agree that not much that is apparent is going to be done the first day, though whatever if anything is done toDay will be extremely helpful later on. I don't think in the recorded history of WW on the Downs a village has caught more than one wolf on the first day, or any 'big' scheme of theirs in one swoop.
If that was happening, I'd seriously look into having telepathic devices implanted into my brain. :p
Though, I don't think it would be smart to just sit around and wait to be eaten, or wait a few days before trying anything. Mistakes happen, you learn from them, and you play on.

I'd expect the wolves to be much less ready to jump on the nearest bandwagon than usual.

If they did, that would be an amazing second Day... Wishful thinking, sorry.

Her posts have been rather boring. I'm used to them being a bit more interesting.


I know, but sorry dear I'm just not in my groove today or toDay. Finals week is nigh and I couldn't think a bit of wit to save my life. I'm trying though, to break off the tunnel vision of 'oh wow, I think I've seriously overestimated my abilities and schedule'. :rolleyes:

Ka, because she's always evil.

Oh pish, seriously as I've said before, that last game was pure luck. Look at me now, I have the memory of a vegetable.

As for you, I see you're acting your usual self, and no I'm not going to wholly trust you either. Even if you are family. I'm watching you too. :p

Quite honestly, I assume the wizards have played enough so that they have at least some kind of ideas about what the players are like.

Okay, now that I can agree with you dear sister. If anything I doubt the wizards will invest too much of their time with depending on lists, and instead see how others are bandwagoning with them/reacting. Lists, as statistics are too easily subject to personal whim. A wolf or a gifted could use lists as easily as their wizards to get a point across.
Meaning, we need to remember that a gifted or a wolf is given a task of any sort, though how they reach them could be a number of ways. The wizards just want to see their goals met with as little loss or consequences.

It's the phantom who's begging for attention. phantom to Evil Wizard...not much of a stretch.


I thought tp always wants attention?

I don't have much of a grounded suspicion on anyone yet, but tp's personality doesn't strike me as an immediate suspicion for EW, let alone wolf. I'd rather be more concerned if he was having mutliple personalities in his posts, or acting extremely skitterish in his reasoning.
This is from only what I know of his nature outside of WW, since I believe this is the first time I've played a game with tp in it.

((Going to be gone for another hour or so, but back in time for the deadline. Sorry for the shoddy schedule and boring posts everyone.))

[Thinlómien]

I'm not sure what's worse: Volo making a statement that can be read as a wolf slip (but I remember an ancestor of him making a wolf slip while being innocent, too ), or A Little Green pointing out the quote - without any opinion of her own - in order to have the mob feast on it while keeping her own hands clean.Well, I'm not commenting on Volo's slip because it still baffles me (even though he did explain it - that explanation was a little fishy btw), but I don't certainly think there's anything wrong with Greenie pointing it out: I would have done that had I spotted it.

Agan is definitely not sitting right with me. Really. There's something too... cunning and sneaky in her manner. I don't trust her a little bit. Something in her manner sharply reminds me of her in the Day0 of Volo's game where she was wolf but did not know the identity of her fellows. I can't say what exactly is the thing that is similar, but there is a freaky similarity. I think it has something to do with a certain devil-may-care attitude when it comes to accusing people. I bet that if she's a wolf who has not been told her fellows' identities, she does not care if she lynches them or not, she just wants to stay alive and thus accuses those that genuinely seem wolvish to her. Also, she's not the tiniest bit concerned about flushing out gifteds. I may be reading too much into this, but I think there's this sort of recklessness behind her posts and I do not like it. But if we better wolf candidates, I'm all for keeping her as she's quite sharp and can benefit us as much as her own team. ;)

I don't know about sally, but she makes me feel uneasy. Usually she's crazier and somehow less careful.Oh but this is a very good point. Where is her characteristic cheer and carelessness? Is it just because this so different from any other game she's played this far, or are there more sinister reasons behind this?

Okay, so we know there aren't connections between the wolves as they probably don't know of each other.
How come you're so sure?
This looks awfully much like a Brinn-wolf who doesn't know her fellows and states the fact as her opinion as she's afraid she might slip it later.I really don't get Agan's point here...

phantom to Evil Wizard...not much of a stretch.:D Indeed.

I'll be back with some more solid info, but that'll have to do for now.Info???

I really love Nerwen's grumpy attitude. :D Besides she makes a lot of sense.


edit: xed with Nerwen and THE Ka

[the phantom]

I'm back! Did you miss me?

Sally, you voted for me! Now how can I get scried multiple times if you go and get me lynched! It was most inconsiderate of you. And aren't you even from the same state as I am? Where's your sense of regional brotherhood?

Oh, and as far as deciding who we should try and lynch, the EW or WWs, does it really matter much who we gun for?

In my opinion we're just as likely to lynch a WW gunning for the EW as we are if we were actually trying to lynch a WW. It's not like we have any concrete knowledge to work with. On Day 1 in particular we're just taking a blind shot in the dark. Heck, if we'd purposefully try and lynch the Seer we'd probably have just as good a chance of lynching a WW.

Here are the lynching odds for today-

Ordo- 71%
Gifted- 11%
WW- 11%
Wizard- 7%

If everything today and tonight go according to the odds, tomorrow we will have 2 Wizards, 4 WWs, 3 gifteds, and 16 Ordos. So that would make the lynch odds tomorrow-

Ordo- 64%
WW- 16%
Gifted- 12%
Wizard- 8%

Just something to chew on.

And I have been seeing some of you saying that the scenario I outlined earlier was overly pessimistic. All right then. I'll run a different scenario.

This time, let us assume that the village and the GW, after Day 1, have 50% success at finding WWs- in other words, in every single Night/Day cycle a WW is either lynched or scried by the GW. If you ask me that would be quite an accomplishment. But let's suppose we actually pull it off. What would that mean for our numbers?

(I'm not counting the Wizards in these tallies)
Day 2- 19-4
Day 3- 16-4
Day 4- 15-4
Day 5- 12-4
Day 6- 9-4
Day 7- 6-4
Day 8- LOSE

So, as we can see, even if we have 50% WW-finding success, by the time we are at Day 5 the village will already have a worse villager-WW ratio than other villages start with. Day 6 we'd be in trouble, Day 7 we'd need a miracle, and Day 8 the game would be over.

So, even if we find a WW in every single cycle, we're still probably dead if we haven't found the EW by Day 6. But before that would be very nice.

This is the point I'm trying to make on the issue of finding WWs as opposed to finding the EW. If we find the EW early, we probably win. If we don't find the EW, it doesn't matter how many WWs we find, we'll still lose.
I thought tp always wants attention?
Ah, I see that Ka has me figured out. ;)

Yes, yes, I do want attention. I'm thinking it will increase my odds of being scried. I did the same thing in the last Dueling Wizard village. It only partly worked though- the GW did indeed scry me, but the EW instead of scrying me elected to send the WWs after me the very same night.

I'll never forgive you for that Roa!

[the phantom]

Agan is definitely not sitting right with me. Really.
Really? Hmm... don't you actually know Agan? If so then I'd be inclined to trust your opinion of her. Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.

Ha ha... throwing the wolf to the lambs...

But what does Agan think of Lommy?

And what do Rikae and Mac think about each other?

And I'd really like to know what Nog thinks about everyone! But he won't tell. I pmed and asked him what all the roles were, but he just said "Silence! Ask again and I'll mod-fire you!"

[Kitanna]

I have missed a lot and have no time to catch up and will miss the deadline by ten minutes tonight. I need to vote now and I shall cast a random vote.

++ Morm

mostly random. Based on past experiences with Morm and nothing else. I apoligize, but I will have much more to say Day 2 when things aren't so hectic at work.

[Eönwë]

Eonwe continued to run towars the village square. He stopped right in the middle of it, panting. There was silence as he entered. "I came as soon as I heard" he said, when he was faced by looks of surprise.
"Nobody told me until I came back from my lumberjack course"
His eyes fell on the poor headless body of Eomer, and that of Nogrod, cloven in two by who knew what.

"And who are you," said someone.

And Eonwe broke into song:

"I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
I sleep all night and I work all day."

And then Rikae joined in with: "He's a lumberjack, and he's okay,
He sleeps all night and he works all day."

Eonwe: I cut down trees, I eat my lunch,
I go to the nonexistent lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go chopping
And have buttered lembas and miruvor!

Rikae: He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch,
He goes to the ..what?
On Wednesdays he goes chopping
And has buttered lembas and miruvor.

He's a lumberjack, and he's okay,
He sleeps all night and he works all day

Eonwe: I cut down trees, I skip and hunt,
I like to press wild symbelmyne.
I put on Melian's girdle,
And hang around in inns.

Rikae: He cuts down trees, he skips and hunts,
He likes to press wild symbelmyne.
He puts on Melian's girdle
And hangs around.... In inns???????

I cut down trees, I jump up high
I am not womanly
I wish I'd been a girlie just my dear Shas-

He ended abruptly, as everyone stared at him strangely. "Thats just what I learned on my "What is a lumberjack, course, I'm sorry" he said defensively. Everyone just nodded in consent, except for a few of the Others. Those of the unknown parentage.

The people continued to have their discussion about werewolves, as they probably had since morning, and by now it was late afternoon.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What I meant was exactly this "given his behaviour". You say that it is cobblerish. I personally don't think this conclusion is obvious, so I'd like to see your reasons, especially given the fact that it is a very easy way to discredit a person's opinions as a whole (that's what I meant by "demagogic").
Simply, his behavior overall, how should I label it - just look at his posts. Why should I say anything more? What should I say? Should I label him with some adjective? "Hasty", "harsh", "funny", what? None of these would do, mind you. He behaves like a cobbler would do for me: this is what I said, and that will be enough. However, the conclusion was that I considered him rather innocent because of that. And what is that you have about discrediting a person's opinions, I still don't get it. You mean that I am discrediting phantom's opinions, i.e. as if I were saying "he is cobblerish, therefore don't listen to him"? That was by no way what I meant. I only stated: He seems to me to behave like a cobbler. The same way as if I said that he behaves like a hedgehog or like Eddie Murphy. If there was any conclusion concerning how any of his words should be interpretated, then it was what I said that I think he wanted only to "show off" by these "hey scry me" things and such. But that was all. See above.

Nerwen's posting, especially her post #82 actually looks sensible, and innocentish. However, I can as well imagine her evilly grinning behind this innocent mask. But that's just the tiny bit of feeling. She speaks sense, if nothing else, this far.

People seem much more reluctant to put forward any method of achieving any of these goals. The only suggestions I've heard have been, "Guess on basis of personality" and, "Lynch people until we find some wolves, and then we'll know who picked them". I don't find either of these plans appealing (as a healer, I shrink from unnecessary bloodshed).
Actually, I also - although I see I already meddled in that - don't see a point in such discussions, respectively: don't see a point in their subject. What people say, and that they interact and actually say something, is another thing and it's good. But otherwise, I think that simply everyone should do what he thinks is the best and then something will happen. Especially on Day 1, it is how it will end anyway, and don't tell me that it isn't true.

Besides my disagreement with his opinion, I don't like the way he states it. The addition of the "In my opinion" to the end feels pointless to me in every other sense than in a looking nice -sense which looks fishy. So, all in all, Gwath looks pretty bad to me at the moment.
Yes, that was the thing I pointed out as well. Hm... there's so many posts that it's good you reminded me of that, and also for myself, I must remind myself that with Gwath, this is always relative... (merely repeating what I said earlier).

LG, Volo, eventually Gwath... still those who figure upper on my list. Now even there are their interactions, which are really interesting "in-group", but then, do the Wolves know each other or don't they? And even if they do, would they interact so? And even if they don't know, what would such interaction mean?

EDIT: x-ed since Nerwen's last post

[Cailín]

I disagree. Even though the degree of randomness is a bit smaller than usual, there are too many different possibilities for speculating to be of any use - it's still waste of time. And just speculating on things like that instead of talking about people benefits only the evil team.

The way Cailín speaks and still leaves the impression of not saying anything makes me uneasy, especially given random comments like that.

You can consider it a waste of time if you like, but if I wish to hunt for possible baddies using a method that I think makes sense then I will continue to do so. I believe that much of what other villagers are saying can be construed as a waste of time, but I'm prepared to give them more time to get their thoughts sorted.

I leave the impression of not saying anything? And I suppose everyone else in the village has been chock-full of useful tidbits? Of course not! It's Day 1 and very little of interest has been said.

And nothing I say is random, you insolent girl. :p

[Durelin]

Oh, Aganzir - the clutching was a joke (if the 'Thanks' was not sarcastic... :D). I don't know which one it 'is', if there it's defined anywhere, not that it even matters. I just remember a Saucepan-Nogrod-me-TGWBS argument fiasco, and then it was clutching, I believe...maybe. I think I might have been accused of straw-clutching. I remember something like "is that the sound of straws being clutched?" or something. Amusing. That was insane.

Ah, yeah...I remember the frustration of Sauce's game...I had a cool role and everything! (And sorry I didn't remember...was frustrated I died on Night 1 and don't think I really followed the game, hah.)

Hmm, your post was too nice to me. Hmm.

I agree with you on Cailin.

Nerwen, a bit more's been said than what you summarize...we got beyond the Wolves and EW topic for the most part. Give us more credit. Also, your entire first post is basically repeating what other's have said to criticize/disagree with it or to put it into a list without really giving anything new. Your second post gives a little. But I mean...discussion can be repetitive and still be productive, right? And you can have a lot of just agreeing and disagreeing and it still be interesting...maybe who people choose to agree and disagree with can mean something.

Why are we bothering to look for new things under the sun, anyway? What game number is this?

*pats the Ka*

Oh, and yeah, my the phantom wanting attention comment was supposed to mean he always wants attention, though it was worded strangely. I was in rant-mode, so I was just typing whatever came out of my head. Probably do that too much.

I've been practically ignoring (definitely 'ignoring' them in my posts) lots of people but dang there are a lot of people in this game...gotta step back maybe. See if Legate or Lommy are looking creepy. And Rikae needs to post more, I miss her and finding her suspicious.

Edit: Whoa, crossed with tp onwards.

[Thinlómien]

Really? Hmm... don't you actually know Agan? If so then I'd be inclined to trust your opinion of her. Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.Yes, she's one of my closest friends. Also, A Little Green is my sister. And furthermore, Volo is an RL friend of mine as well. Still, I do not advise you to trust my judgement of any of them. It is probably as biased and faulty as that of someone who does not know them as well as I do. In fact, Agan is better at fooling me than most other ww players I've played with. :rolleyes:


edit: xed with Legate, Cailín and Durelin

[the phantom]

Oh, and Legate, just so you know, I am actually a cobbler. It's amazing that you picked it out so quickly. Nog thought it'd be funny to make me one after that last game I modded. :p

Ah, but I'm off to take my turn watching the sheep. Did you count them this morning? I'm worried that the WWs will take a liking to them. Be back in a bit.

[Durelin]

Whatever you say, phantom, dear.

(Nothing meant by 'dear', Lhuna. ;))

[Cailín]

I wish to point out that I've been misquoted twice now (due to a nameless possession this was not noted before).

Roa assigns one of Celuien's quotes about teamwork pattern and so on to me. The quote includes the word flux - not even sure what that means.

This quote is later also assigned to me by Ka. I actually find this carelessness rather suspicious, but I want to clear up this situation at least. Roa's mistake is a bit strange, but Ka's words about me over faulty evidence is more worrying. Based on events of Day 1 she's right at the top of my suspicion list.

[Nerwen]

Based on my previous arguments, here is a list of people I think are being (deliberately?) unhelpful/diversionary/sinister.

1. The Phantom.

Bah! Why bother trying to find Wolves?

...etc.. etc... starting the whole endless argument that has been going around in circles all Day.

2. Mormegil

I'm only to this point but I must agree with the phantom here. The EW is the key to our success or theirs. (Oh, I can't wait until people misread that statement!) Anyway the EW is the deciding factor.

No, we can't no for certain can we? However, I consider playing the odds the best bet at this stage of the game. If I were the EW, well I would pick...well there's something I must do but I will be back.

Well, that was helpful, Mormegil.

3.Gwathagor

Hardly ever is the first person lynched a wolf, which I think demonstrates that a single day is rarely enough to identify a baddie, which is why I think it's better to make a concerted effort to find the EW, than to scramble about every day trying to flush out that day's unique wolf line-up. No, I'm not saying "don't look for wolves." But I do think most of our energy should be directed towards tracking down the EW. In my opinion.

No, you mean "in The Phantom's and Morm's opinions". You sound a lot like a Gwathwolf in that post, my dear highwayman, always trying to side with the majority...

++Sally


And you voted her because...?


4.Brinniel

Okay, so we know there aren't connections between the wolves as they probably don't know of each other. So we should look for a different connection...and that'd be between the EW and the wolves. By lynching wolves, we will have better clues to who the EW may be.

So, the plan's lynch people at random in the hope that some of them will turn out to be wolves, who will in turn give a clue to the EW?


5.Celuien

At this point, I think our best chances as a village lie with the scrying and seering. The usual daytime teamwork patterns can't be counted upon as a way to look for evil since there's no way to know if the wolves know each other's identities - and I would doubt that at this early point that they would as there's too much chance of flux from one side to the other. By the same token, it's high unlikely that they know the EW's identity. And other sneaky behaviors can't even be counted on because the wolves are perfectly replaceable while the village is still this large, and for all we know might be out there as cannon fodder to distract and confuse the search for the EW, who's really the one that has to be discovered to stabilize the werewolf population flux and make it possible for the village to be victorious.

And we'll do this... exactly how? Not leading up to another "lynch at will" proposal, by any chance?

6.Cailin.

Carries out Morm's proposal to guess who the EW would have picked by making a list of wolves, based on personality alone. That's pointless and looks like a possible diversion attempt.

7.Legate?

Logical and sensible, but is there a bit of a slippery feel to some of his posts? Nothing I can put my finger on right now, though.

There are also a number of other people, eg McCaber, Shasta, who have posted little or nothing and are possibly flying under the radar.

Edit: fixed numbering.
Edit #2: X'd since The Phantom at #91.

[Kath]

Oh there are so many posts and my head is just not up for it right now. I was going to have a good look but ... ok you know what I'm going to go away for a bit and try and come back later with something more helpful.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am not sure what Lommy sees on (bah!) Agan... though she seems reasonable in for example her reply to phantom that he should not trust her (this I would expect of her... although thinking of it, she would probably do it in any case), however what I would not expect of her...
Oh but this is a very good point. Where is her characteristic cheer and carelessness? Is it just because this so different from any other game she's played this far, or are there more sinister reasons behind this?
I don't like this that much. Not sure why, but following someone with a suspicion like that... my dear sally does not seem suspicious in any way, she is behaving like she's always, and also she simply voted and that's it. Nothing weird there.

Ah, but I'm off to take my turn watching the sheep. Did you count them this morning? I'm worried that the WWs will take a liking to them. Be back in a bit.

I think there should be all of them. The wolves may have killed Daddy (Cool) and my dear's uncle, but just let them try to lay their... fangs on our sheep!!!

EDIT: x-ed since Cailín

[Cailín]

Hello, my friends and relations (most of you are both, come to think of it). I'm so sorry to have deserted our afflicted village in its hour of need. I have been gathering herbs to ease the pain of my brother's death. Like to try some, anyone? No?

For a while, now, I have been standing aside, listening to what others have to say. Which has been as follows:

1. We should try and lynch wolves.

2. No, we should try and lynch the Evil Wizard.

3. No, we should try and lynch them both.

People seem much more reluctant to put forward any method of achieving any of these goals. The only suggestions I've heard have been, "Guess on basis of personality" and, "Lynch people until we find some wolves, and then we'll know who picked them". I don't find either of these plans appealing (as a healer, I shrink from unnecessary bloodshed).

As has been pointed out (much) more than once, we cannot count on spotting wolf interactions, since the wolves may not know who each other are. I don't see why this is such an issue. My training in healing touched on the unpleasant subject of lycanthropy. According to the ancient lore passed on to me from the earliest times, werewolves often don't show much in the way of pack behaviour on Day 1 anyway... but there are other ways in which they may reveal their beastly nature.

Some of them have been known to use diversionary tactics such as

1. Starting/continuing pointless debates

2. Making lots of "empty" posts full of banter or non-specific general statements that seem helpful but aren't when you look at them closely

3. Repeating what other people have said already.

The only problem is that there's been so much of that toDay, it's hard to know where to start.:rolleyes:

Edit: X'd since Legate at #77.

This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.



Cross-posted with Nerwen and others. Nerwen finds my methods ''pointless'' and possibly distracting. :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

But I mean...discussion can be repetitive and still be productive, right? And you can have a lot of just agreeing and disagreeing and it still be interesting...maybe who people choose to agree and disagree with can mean something.

That's sort of my point, Durelin.

Edit: X'd with Cailín.

[Nerwen]

This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.

Isn't it obvious? What I'm pointing out is that there are still ways to find wolves (or the EW) based on their playing styles rather than known personality or random voting.

[Cailín]

Isn't it obvious? What I'm pointing out is that there are still ways to find wolves (or the EW) based on their playing styles rather than known personality or random voting.

Known personality and playing style are intrinsically linked. We judge people's personality based on their playing style. But that is not the reason I found your post suspicious. We all know how this game is played - most of us are experienced veterans - and there is little need, in my opinion, to list common wolf-tactics.

[satansaloser2005]

Quick check-in over break. Hmmmm, it seems one of the biggest points of discussion is catching the EW vs. catching the wolves. May I point out that if the EW is killed, so is the GW, and then we lose (essentially, and assuming she has a full gifted roster) a seer. Not that I'm saying we let the EW sit around and scry her brains out, but I think it'll be a lot easier to find the EW in a couple days (sooner, if possible, but I don't think that's likely) and concentrate on finding wolves for now, as it'll be easier to find the EW once we see her style of wolf-picking.

Hehe, Phantom, don't you know that it is I who will be multi-scried? :p

Bah. I wish I had more time to look at things, but I'm running late. Best of luck to all at the end of the day; I may be able to stop in around DL, but I highly, HIGHLY doubt it. Til then....


P.S. Durelin, if you want I can totally edit the chart. It was just really late when i wrote down all the names and I kept seeing "Dure" as "Durie" and it stuck. Happy to change it though if you'd wish. :)

EDIT: x'd with Nerwen's last and Cailin

[Isabellkya]

I just wanted to point something out as I continue to read.



Order of Nightly activities

1. Wizards make their scries.
2. Affected players & wizards are informed of the results.
3. Seer dreams, ranger protects & hunter hunts.
4. Wolves kill.

I believe Durelin touched upon it - that the EW could easily have her remaining wolves kill the lost one, before we even knew about it.

Someone did mention it, however I forgot to make a note of it. About the GW having her Ranger protect the Wolf>Ordo, and thus the EW not being able/wanting to waste a kill on a possibly protected Lost Wolf. Yet there is no guarantee that the GW will always have a Ranger.

I don't see a problem with using the usual method to search for Wolves. Sure the Wolves will most likely be a bit more wary as in all probability they do not know their fellows. However if the EW were to instruct any of them to change their typical playing style, I'm sure it would be picked up on.

Some have said it, and I'll just spit it back out. Being either the EW or GW is in all likelihood going to take an amount of commitment, which would most likely not suit someone whom may have larger RL time restraints. I also doubt a newer WW player would want to undergo such a thing. However, I don't believe things can be 100% ruled out of the realm of possibility, purely because there is a large chance of them not being true or occuring.


X'd since Cailin's #101.

[Aganzir]

Oh pish, seriously as I've said before, that last game was pure luck. Look at me now, I have the memory of a vegetable.
But I'm not ready to forget it yet. :P

I don't trust her a little bit.
Thank you. :D

I bet that if she's a wolf who has not been told her fellows' identities, she does not care if she lynches them or not, she just wants to stay alive and thus accuses those that genuinely seem wolvish to her.
Well you're right there - at least that's what I did in Volo's game. But that argument doesn't quite apply to here - the wolves just can't play the way they'd like. If they don't know the EW's identity, they have to be careful not to accidentally accuse her.

Also, she's not the tiniest bit concerned about flushing out gifteds.
Can you elaborate what you mean by that?

Okay, so we know there aren't connections between the wolves as they probably don't know of each other.
How come you're so sure?
This looks awfully much like a Brinn-wolf who doesn't know her fellows and states the fact as her opinion as she's afraid she might slip it later.
I really don't get Agan's point here...
Assumption: Brinn is a wolf. She doesn't know her fellows, and she's afraid she would slip it later. She says her opinion is that the wolves probably don't know one other, and therefore she knows there cannot be connections between them. Now it's clear for everyone that it's her opinion, and she won't be questioned later if she speaks like the wolves didn't know one another for sure.
And that comment looks plain fishy.
Got it?

But what does Agan think of Lommy?
I don't have a proper opinion yet/anymore. Her posts look pretty innocent, but either she's way off or a baddie (and if that's the case, congrats for fooling me, as I've usually caught a Lomwolf a bit earlier ;)).

I leave the impression of not saying anything? And I suppose everyone else in the village has been chock-full of useful tidbits? Of course not! It's Day 1 and very little of interest has been said.
Well, no... It's just the way you talk yet seemingly avoid mentioning names or stating opinions about people. You have talked more than many others, so I would have expected to hear a bit more what you think.

Oh, Aganzir - the clutching was a joke
So today seems to be also one of those days my sense of humour just doesn't work. :rolleyes::P

And sorry I didn't remember...
No problem, I just have a good memory.

Hmm, your post was too nice to me. Hmm.
Aaaargh I'll stop talking to you! :P
On a more serious note, that's what usually happens when one has first been accused of defensiveness.

edit: xed since Legate

[Durelin]

That's sort of my point, Durelin.

Sort of, but not really. You noted that the repetition and 'pointless debates' are diversionary, and thus are possibly used often by wolves (especially on Day 1) and because of that they can help point to wolves. But you still say these things are purely diversionary and 'pointless,' and don't seem to think they could be helpful to anyone but the wolves.

Speaking of pointless, eh?

Hmm, maybe a little much, Cailin. I doubt Nerwen made her lists because she thought we were all fools. Not all of us are. But, as I said...what is there left to talk about, tactics-wise and all that rot, in game 47... Ooh, I'm repeating myself now...how Wolfish is that? :p

Edit: Crossed with Sally onwards.

Oh dear, sorry sally, the Durie thing was totally a joke. I just found it amusing because no one's ever attached 'ie', it's always been 'y' for some reason, so I felt I had to comment somehow. And I am an evil twin and feeling particularly...snarky or something toDay. Is snarky a word outside of my head?

Aaaargh I'll stop talking to you!

Yeah, you probably should. :D (I really botched that 'clutching' thing. Not even a smilie! Was really even trying to admit that, yeah, I was grasping/clutching, but I prefer 'clutching'...joking about my preference... There. Totally killed it.)

[Macalaure]

Legate is unwilling to answer my question about his comment on tp, getting ridiculously defensive instead. What you're hearing right now is the sound of my alarm bells ringing.

But now I need to go over today's posts again and look for people who haven't gotten their deserved share of attention today. My son seems to be hogging it once again... :p

[Volo]

May I point out that if the EW is killed, so is the GW, and then we lose (essentially, and assuming she has a full gifted roster) a seer. Not that I'm saying we let the EW sit around and scry her brains out, but I think it'll be a lot easier to find the EW in a couple days (sooner, if possible, but I don't think that's likely) and concentrate on finding wolves for now, as it'll be easier to find the EW once we see her style of wolf-picking.
I'm fine with us trying to find the Wolves, but I don't agree that it will make any at all easier to find the EW if we kill some Wolves first. Ok, maybe probabilities will be different at that point, but blah.

It's taking me ages with my throughout notes, because I'm procrastinating quite a major deal of the time. So far nothing worth mentioning.

edit: Xd with all since #110.

[Rikae]

He's not the cobbler, he's a very naughty boy.

Really, I simply can't stand this statistics business, especially on day one. TP isn't taking into account the abilities of the GW and gifteds to help us rid the village of wolves. Besides, if we are able to hunt down the EW, as my impudent son seems to think (but doesn't mention how), we can hunt down wolves more easily still. Sure, if you find the EW, great - but this kind of talk is demoralizing for the village and, I suspect, nothing but an attempt to start controversy and, of course, get attention. Stop it now, or you'll go to bed without supper!

As for what I think of my husband.... I don't instinctively trust him, anyway. He's grasping at straws a bit himself (I always heard the phrase worded that way), but then, it's only day one and maybe that is to be expected. Of course I'm watching him closely. I did think his point about Greenie was good, though. That sort of careful wording and passive approach is classically wolfish (to name just one wolfish behavior that is not related to wolf interactions).

Otber thoughts at the moment... Roa, Volo,and Lommy look pretty good to me so far... Legate does seem a bit sneaky and controlled, but then, I'm questioning myself on that since I've thought that before when he was innocent. Aganzir doesn't quite seem her usual self- more excited, more defensive, perhaps, and Sally is also acting rather out of character, as others mentioned. Morm and Mac have both seemed a bit eager to accuse, but then, that isn't entirely out of character for either of them.

Alhough I've said that I don't like pessimistic assessments of our wolf hunting abilities on the whole, I do think it's highly unlikely we'll catch a wolf toDay. I certainly don't feel I have enough to go on yet. Perhaps (forgive me, but Nogrod isn't here and someone has to mention it) each of us should, when choosing among our suspects, also think about who is more likely to be discovered later, and who is a potential "submarine"? I don't necessarily mean the quieter or less experienced players, but those who are difficult to judge or easy to overlook.

[Nerwen]

Yes, but as you can surely see, I was leading up to my reasons for placing certain people on my suspicion list.

Having said all that, I have to make an early vote which is necessarily somewhat random.

Hmmn.

++Cailín

seems awfully jumpy all of a sudden...

Edit: X'd since Cailín at #108.

[Cailín]

"seems awfully jumpy" on you, yes! :p

[Durelin]

Perhaps (forgive me, but Nogrod isn't here and someone has to mention it) each of us should, when choosing among our suspects, also think about who is more likely to be discovered later, and who is a potential "submarine"? I don't necessarily mean the quieter or less experienced players, but those who are difficult to judge or easy to overlook.
(emphasis added...)

KATH. morm.

Legate was pretty darned defensive there. That's a lengthy rant of a paragraph to devote to defending his opinion of...phantom sillyness.

Edit: Crossed with Cailin.

Not on me, yet? :D

And yeah, with the Legate thing I was responding to Mac. That was the only thing Legate's said that's stood out to me at all, in a good light or bad.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate is unwilling to answer my question about his comment on tp, getting ridiculously defensive instead. What you're hearing right now is the sound of my alarm bells ringing.

Look, I've been trying to answer you for about four posts. And obviously I have still not answered the question you want to have answered. Just tell me then WHAT IS THE QUESTION. Clearly, simply, if possible in one sentence, the way that it will be understandable. I thought I guessed what you meant last time. Apparently not. Then tell me.

[Lalaith]

Right, black sheep is back.
I've had a quick look at all the posts and the first thing that strikes me, is this debate about wizards over-ruling and/or changing people's natural playing styles. It's an interesting idea, and got me thinking.

I don't think the EW is going to tell the wolves about each other, and I don't even think that s/he's going to reveal to them. But what s/he might do, I think, is give them a shortlist of non-evil team people to frame for lynching, in order to stop them killing each other by mistake.

So here's a possible way to catch wolves - who's trying to trump up a spurious charge against someone, and are there any patterns there?

Anyway, I'm going to do a closer analysis of posts, and then I'll post again. Also, if no-one else has done a vote count by the time I'm done, I'll post one of those too.

[the phantom]

Some have said it, and I'll just spit it back out. Being either the EW or GW is in all likelihood going to take an amount of commitment, which would most likely not suit someone whom may have larger RL time restraints.
Ah, yes, you have pointed out the logical and natural starting point for hunting down the EW. In our search for the EW we simply can't get to everyone, so we have no choice but to rule out as best we can a portion of the village. The most obvious way to do this is to consider who would actually apply to be the EW, and your point about RL time constraints is a good one, but scary at the same time.

Suppose that one of our extremely busy members is actually not that busy and has been lying through their teeth on the admin thread this whole time. If that is the case then essentially this game is already over, because we simply will not find them out because of the fact that we have to rule someone out!
Hehe, Phantom, don't you know that it is I who will be multi-scried?
Grrr... I will be quite upset if that happens!
He's not the cobbler, he's a very naughty boy.
Ha ha ha!
Really, I simply can't stand this statistics business, especially on day one.
What? You don't like numbers? But numbers are my friends! Much better than people, they are- numbers don't have bad moods, won't stab you in the back, and don't make you listen to how their day was. They just sit there, waiting to be used, willing to bend to your will. Numbers are awesome!
Stop it now, or you'll go to bed without supper!
What?! Starving your own flesh and blood?

You must be a Wolf!

But seeing as I've still got to eat, I suppose I can let it slide. It might be kind of cool having a Werewolf for a mother. What do you think, Dad?

And where is my little sister!

[Roa_Aoife]

Sorry about the quote mix up, Mac. I had just woken up and was trying to get ready for work. It's fixed now. I don't why my post looks bad to you, unless you're worried about the village benefiting from my experience. Perhaps you could be clearer.

There's been numerous comments about how difficult Day 1's are, and how we likely won't catch a wolf. I'm not gettting into it. You all should look about at all the signatures that say "Fenris Wolf" to understand the flaws in those statements.

Durelin, I couldn't agree with you more about the compromising. People should vote for who they think is guilty.

Sally's vote for phantom seems a bit odd. I know, I think he's horribly suspicious at best, or a diliberately unhelpful villager at worst (And yes that is the worst of the two). But she doesn't give much reasoning herself. It's alomst as though she tried to guess the flow of conversation and encourage it towards phantom.

Advice for the village- avoid stating whom you trust/ think looks innocent. You'll only be giving the EW easy choices.

I have to vote- I don't have time for more.

++Phantom

Good hunting. Hopefully, I'll be back tomorrow with further insight for the village into the role of the EW.

[Cailín]

I've been jumping on you all your life, naughty child, and don't think that's going to stop!

But Nerwen looks bad to me. Soon as I voice doubts about her she says that I'm ''jumpy'' and votes for me -- despite not waiting for my riposte in our discussion (known because she cross-voted with me).

I'm thinking about voting for THE Ka, for her carelessly copying Roa's misquote about me. Although she doesn't really make a big deal of it, which makes me wonder.

Hmm.

[Durelin]

I forgot about the "unwilling to answer my question" part. I did think Legate rather answered your question, whether you got the answer you wanted or not, Mac.

Actually the question was a little much, too. What's the use of labeling phantom as cobblerish? Getting him ignored? Well...

Yeah, my mind's jumping around. I need to go back and read instead of pulling from memory one piece at a time.

Edit: Crossed with Mother.

Good point. :p Even Lhuna gets to jump on me for every little slip of my phial... Where is that horrible sister of mine, anyway? We stopped the in-character posts for you, you can come back now!

[the phantom]

I don't think the EW is going to tell the wolves about each other, and I don't even think that s/he's going to reveal to them. But what s/he might do, I think, is give them a shortlist of non-evil team people to frame for lynching, in order to stop them killing each other by mistake.
I'm quite certain that he did.

I had already planned to go back over today's events after the day is over and look for this precise behavior. There are a few different ways in which it could manifest itself. But naturally I'm not going to say it now.

[Macalaure]

WHAT IS THE QUESTION.What. makes. the. phantom. appear. cobblerish?

"Just look at his posts" is not an answer.

Actually, I only asked in the first place to get some response from you, not necessarily an answer to the question. The response I got - and you won't like my conclusion. :p

[Cailín]

About the phantom: he seems merely to be playing with the dynamics of this game. Because of the uncertainty whether one will wake up on the same side tomorrow as one is today, he has interpreted the role of villager as neutral rather than on the side of good. All this boy needs is a little direction.

He may be a wizard and playing a bluff. I doubt he is a wolf.

[Volo]

So here's a possible way to catch wolves - who's trying to trump up a spurious charge against someone, and are there any patterns there?I don't completely understand you. And whatever it is you mean, it won't work anymore. Quite bad to suggest to the Wolves as soon as Day1 what they should avoid doing. If you have a plan how to spot Wolves, keep it hidden and don't tell it to the Wolves. Your idea of a shortlist is quite odd on its own.

edit: Xd since Cailin.

[the phantom]

Oh, come now Roa. I haven't been unhelpful. All I've done is accurately described the situation we are in, and mixed in a bit of deliberate pessimism. Heh heh- I think you've actually seen me do that before. You didn't like it much then either, did you?

But I don't wish to start the lynch mob in your direction either. You're probably not a WW now, but doubtless you will be one later on. I can't imagine the EW could resist recruiting a former EW to his side. ;)

[Eönwë]

Sally's vote for phantom seems a bit odd. I know, I think he's horribly suspicious at best, or a diliberately unhelpful villager at worst (And yes that is the worst of the two). But she doesn't give much reasoning herself. It's alomst as though she tried to guess the flow of conversation and encourage it towards phantom....

++Phantom


This looks a bit odd. Slandering (well, thats a bit of a harsh word, but still, you get the point-perhaps scold is a better word) Sally for voting phantom and then voting for him yourself. And yu also didn't give a reason.

I also find THE Ka a bit suspicious, she's not really saying much, and doesn't seem suspicious- but that just makes her more suspicious to me. I have a feeling that she's hiding something.


Another thing I've beent thinking about is that maybe the EW will only tell each WW another WW's identity, so they can work together, but will not be able to reveal the whole group if the are converted. But this could only happen later on in the game, when there will undoubtedly be more WW's (and I'm sure a real WW will use this as a quote to "prove" that I'm a WW by way of a slip- but its not). I would probably do that if I was the EW.

x-ed since Roa

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What. makes. the. phantom. appear. cobblerish?

Good then. Because in that case I already answered you and I don't need to bother with that anymore. If it does not suffice it is your problem. Besides, in that post where I mentioned Eddie Murphy I elaborated on that quite a lot.

Now let's leave my slightly deaf-becoming uncle and go on with something more concrete.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I think it'll be a lot easier to find the EW in a couple days (sooner, if possible, but I don't think that's likely) and concentrate on finding wolves for now, as it'll be easier to find the EW once we see her style of wolf-picking.

This is one statement I agree with.

Something about Mac's "likes and dislikes" made me raise an eyebrow, but I lost the quote. I'll go back and find it.

[Volo]

Now let's leave my slightly deaf-becoming uncle and go on with something more concrete. Not just yet, although I do agree that you've been on that tp-Cobbler thing for much too long. I pretty much agree that he is Cobbler-like, quite useless and probably one who won't become any clearer as the game advances. Argh. I wouldn't put it past him that he's Wolf, even in a situation like this.
Anyway, what do you mean by this: LG, Volo, eventually Gwath... still those who figure upper on my list. Now even there are their interactions, which are really interesting "in-group", but then, do the Wolves know each other or don't they? And even if they do, would they interact so? And even if they don't know, what would such interaction mean?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Found it.

Like: Aganzir, Kitanna, phantom, morm

Some like: Volo, Ka, Sally, Isabellkya, Lommy, Durelin

Only a little like: Lhuna, A Little Green

Not very much like: Shasta (shady agreement with Roa), Cailin (really not sure what to make of her list), Legate

No like: Roa (what I said earlier, plus a simple very bad hunch I got from her last post)

Really not sure: Brinniel, Lalaith, Gwath, Rikae, Celuien, Kath

Still asleep: Nilp, Eonwe, Diamond, Nerwen, McCaber.

I don't know how much help this is, since we've apparently moved on from this topic, but it seems to me, reading back, that the main advocates for searching for wolves versus searching for the EW were Roa, myself, Lhuna, Brinn, and Cailin. The ones advocating searching for the EW were Phantom, morm, and Gwath. Looking at Mac's list, it seems to me that he is quietly suspicious of everyone who wanted to look for the wolves first; "Only a little like" (Lhuna), "Not very much like" (me, Cailin), "No like" (Roa), "Really not sure" (Brinn).

[Isabellkya]

I dare say that you are looking to be the most cowardly of us all, phantom.
Though cowardly isn't quite the word I want, sheepish and fatalist came to me as well - but neither quite fit either.

You seem to be continually mentioning/thinking that based upon one or two circumstances, could possibly and will resign us to a dooming fate - within the first few Days of the game. Rather than focusing on such such things, maybe it would be a good idea to actively hunt for the wolves. hmm?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Not just yet, although I do agree that you've been on that tp-Cobbler thing for much too long. I pretty much agree that he is Cobbler-like, quite useless and probably one who won't become any clearer as the game advances. Argh. I wouldn't put it past him that he's Wolf, even in a situation like this.
Anyway, what do you mean by this:

Eee, Volo, I only hope one answer would be sufficient for you, okay? Anyway, I don't have much other to comment on, so I can give it a little time. But just a little, mind you.

I find you folks somewhat suspicious, as I said already in my, I believe, it was my first post at all. Here, I say that this suspicion continues, and what I had in mind by the interaction is mainly the start of page 3 where there was some discussion around that "We wolves" typo (? :) ) of yours, Greenie took part in it, and then you suspected her. It was just kind of a "chat" you had there, it seemed... I don't know, odd, the way you treated each other. Actually, seeing that from current perspective it does not seem that odd anymore. Anyway, to finish it, back then, in the end of the quote of mine, I relativised it again, raising questions which I don't have answers to and which I am not even sure about they have any answers - what could this interaction mean in the case you were or were not wolves and if that even were possible for you to be wolves and know each other etc. That would be it, probably.

Btw, when I am at it: what I don't like about you the most was your post #55 (the one where you had all these boldened words like "madness" and "dangerous") and the overall tone of it didn't seem to me like your normal self.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I dare say that you are looking to be the most cowardly of us all, phantom.
Though cowardly isn't quite the word I want, sheepish and fatalist came to me as well - but neither quite fit either.


Fatalistic is a good word, sister mine. :P

[Macalaure]

I skimmed the thread again and found disappointingly little. It's getting too late here to effectively read or think... Among those that have escaped me so far, all I noticed is that Brinniel stated the more or less obvious a little too much.

Rikae has joined the ranks of those who want to go after werewolves and not the EW, which makes her slightly suspicious, at least from my point of view.

Other than that, my suspects remain Roa, Legate, and Shasta, but I seem to be alone with it, which is discouraging.

I think better of Cailín.

I don't know how much help this is, since we've apparently moved on from this topic, but it seems to me, reading back, that the main advocates for searching for wolves versus searching for the EW were Roa, myself, Lhuna, Brinn, and Cailin. The ones advocating searching for the EW were Phantom, morm, and Gwath. Looking at Mac's list, it seems to me that he is quietly suspicious of everyone who wanted to look for the wolves first; "Only a little like" (Lhuna), "Not very much like" (me, Cailin), "No like" (Roa), "Really not sure" (Brinn).
You're absolutely right there. I do think it's suspicious to favour lynching werewolves over outing the EW. Killing a wolf is excellent, outing the EW is crucial. Anyway, it was not just the opinion by itself which made me suspicious of those, but also the way it was delivered. Actually, that list itself was of very little help back then - I made it mostly to make up my own mind.

[Celuien]

Must run quickly - lots of things to do.

I like tp just now in my quick analysis. Seems sensible.

Also, I tend to fall more towards trying to find the wizard before wolves category - priority is towards stabilizing the population because otherwise the supply of new wolves is endless. How to do this, in answer to someone's question above (I forget whose), is trickier, but I hope that a combination of scrying and seering would help with it. Otherwise, I don't really know. Of course, if there's 'obvious' wolvishness (whatever that may mean in a power structure like this) it should be acted upon.

And now for a more or less random vote...

++Izzy

[Aganzir]

But what s/he might do, I think, is give them a shortlist of non-evil team people to frame for lynching, in order to stop them killing each other by mistake.
I think this sounds plausible.

This looks a bit odd. Slandering (well, thats a bit of a harsh word, but still, you get the point-perhaps scold is a better word) Sally for voting phantom and then voting for him yourself. And yu also didn't give a reason.
Not really. It's possible that both sally and phantom are wolves; that wouldn't stop them from voting each other - especially in a game where the wolves don't know one another by default (but in some games wolves also vote for each other intentionally).
Roa pretty much gave reasons in her earlier posts, whereas sally's vote came rather out of the blue.

I also find THE Ka a bit suspicious, she's not really saying much, and doesn't seem suspicious- but that just makes her more suspicious to me. I have a feeling that she's hiding something.
The only strange thing I see about her is that I'm used to her being, hmm, happier and crazier. But I don't think she's really suspicious now.

Eee, Volo, I only hope one answer would be sufficient for you, okay?
I have an interpretation! I have an interpretation!
Wolves are afraid of coming across as jumpy and defensive so they try to answer accusations with as little effort as possible. Then their explanations don't really make sense so they're forced to explain the same things over and over again.
It quite looks like that in Legate's replies to Mac.

I don't really know yet who I will vote. Legate or sally (:p), or Brinniel, Cailín or Gwath. Phantom amuses me so I'd rather keep him alive.

edit: xed with Shasta, Mac & Celuien

[Shastanis Althreduin]

You're absolutely right there. I do think it's suspicious to favour lynching werewolves over outing the EW. Killing a wolf is excellent, outing the EW is crucial. Anyway, it was not just the opinion by itself which made me suspicious of those, but also the way it was delivered. Actually, that list itself was of very little help back then - I made it mostly to make up my own mind.


Why? I agree that there's no reason we shouldn't keep an eye out for the EW, but even if we were to find her on Day 1, there's nothing we could do about it until Day 4. By then, assuming we haven't found one wolf, there could be many as six WWs about (depending on how lucky the GW is with her scrying). It seems like it would be more important to search mainly for wolves in order to keep their numbers down until the EW becomes vulnerable.

[the phantom]

The voting so far-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy

tp- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
morm- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1

I'm winning! I'm winning! I'm... oh... *frowns*

[Macalaure]

I have an interpretation! I have an interpretation!
Wolves are afraid of coming across as jumpy and defensive so they try to answer accusations with as little effort as possible. Then their explanations don't really make sense so they're forced to explain the same things over and over again.
It quite looks like that in Legate's replies to Mac.Aganzir, I love you! If I wasn't taken already, I'd be in line with your suitors. That's what I've been thinking all along. Thank you for putting it into clearer words.

even if we were to find her on Day 1, there's nothing we could do about it until Day 4.True, but if we haven't found him by Day 4, we're in an uncomfortable situation. By the way, I'm not saying we should neglect werewolves - all baddies are equally important. But this discussion is becoming more and more uninteresting.

[satansaloser2005]

The voting so far-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy

tp- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
morm- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1

I'm winning! I'm winning! I'm... oh... *frowns*



You read my mind! :) I was just scrolling down and thinking "My, how nice it would be if there was a vote tally!" Thanks Phantom!


Okay, that's about all I've really got time for. I'm going to look at stuff real quick and see what I've got to add in the next....erm....like two minutes. :Merisu: *hates her lack of participation*

[Thinlómien]

There have been points against Gwathagor and I have to admit they make sense. However, Gwath has been a wolf so often of late that I would really not prefer suspecting him yet. (I know, this is rather unreasonable. And contradictory too, for - I won't start this, don't be afraid ;) - I would indeed have picked him if I were the EW.)

I don't like this that much. Not sure why, but following someone with a suspicion like that... my dear sally does not seem suspicious in any way, she is behaving like she's always, and also she simply voted and that's it. Nothing weird there.Well, young man, they say that love makes even the wisest of us blind and my daughter is an attractive girl (of course she is: she has her mother's genes), so I won't blame you.

Well you're right there - at least that's what I did in Volo's game. But that argument doesn't quite apply to here - the wolves just can't play the way they'd like. If they don't know the EW's identity, they have to be careful not to accidentally accuse her.Well, not exactly. I trust the wolves to trust the EW to be resourceful enough to overcome such minor things.

Also, she's not the tiniest bit concerned about flushing out gifteds.
Can you elaborate what you mean by that?If you take it out of the context it does seem quite silly, but I was merely continuing on the trail of thought I had started before. I simply meant that you seem so reckless that you're not concerned about flushing anyone - gifteds included - out, while normally innocent people avoid that.

Assumption: Brinn is a wolf. She doesn't know her fellows, and she's afraid she would slip it later. She says her opinion is that the wolves probably don't know one other, and therefore she knows there cannot be connections between them. Now it's clear for everyone that it's her opinion, and she won't be questioned later if she speaks like the wolves didn't know one another for sure.
And that comment looks plain fishy.
Got it?Well, that's what I thought you meant but it makes little sense to me. Rather far-fetched, I should say. Why would anything like that occur to anyone?

I can somewhat second Rikae's submarine-suggestion. If I don't have suspicions by the time the deadline comes/ I go to sleep (whichever takes place first), I will vote a submarine. Sadly, it's a difficult job to figure who's one. :rolleyes:

Suppose that one of our extremely busy members is actually not that busy and has been lying through their teeth on the admin thread this whole time.It's utterly useless to speculate about that. I prefer to trust that no one lies on the admin thread. If they do and win based on that, shame on them. They cheated. Enough said.

About the phantom: he seems merely to be playing with the dynamics of this game. Because of the uncertainty whether one will wake up on the same side tomorrow as one is today, he has interpreted the role of villager as neutral rather than on the side of good. All this boy needs is a little direction.Now that was a good analyse. Sadly, it points exactly why I have an urge to get rid of him. I distrust him, even though I'm kind of assuming he's on the same side with me. He's just plain confusing, and just see what he's trying to start now, at this phase of the Day: another would-be debate about whether the EW told the wolves one another's identities. Really makes me want to murder him. :p

Looking at Mac's list, it seems to me that he is quietly suspicious of everyone who wanted to look for the wolves first; "Only a little like" (Lhuna), "Not very much like" (me, Cailin), "No like" (Roa), "Really not sure" (Brinn).I was starting to say that that's not really suspicious as people tend to suspect people who disagree with them, but then I remembered that Mac didn't clearly disagree with those people. Very interesting. But anyhow, I doubt Mac-wolf would do something that transparent...


edit: xed with #138 and everything after it...

[Lalaith]

Gah. I'd just got my voting tally all ready to roll and phantom beat me to it.
Well, I read through everything and it seems to me like both Cailin and Brinniel are both being quite helpful and saying constructive things...not sure why people have highlighted them for suspicion. (As for Cailin's suspicions of me, clearly the EW does not share her high opinion of the black sheep :rolleyes:)
Volo and Aganzir both seem quite contradictory in their points, but I haven't played with either of them before. Nerwen too is worrying me , and Roa. I've picked up a similar vibe from the all...Don't say who you trust! Don't say who you suspect! Don't say what your plans are for catching wolves! What exactly are we supposed to talk about then?

There seem to have been two ding-dongs in process, the early one between Roa and Phantom, and a later one between Mac and Legate. As for the first pair, its par for the course and they could be on opposing sides, same side, anything really. The Mac and Legate row seems somehow more manufactured.

[Lalaith]

And am I right in thinking that the only ones left to post are Di and Nilp?

[Rikae]

I am completely exhausted (something called "jet-lag", apparently, whatever a jet is) so I'm going to vote now and go to bed.
++morm
Of those I've seen acting suspicious, he's the most submarine-like.

[the phantom]

Phantom amuses me so I'd rather keep him alive.
Aw, thanks Agan. :)
Rather than focusing on such such things, maybe it would be a good idea to actively hunt for the wolves. hmm?
That's what I'm doing. Or rather, I'm trying to encourage lots of reactions/talking/etc that I can look at and digest after the day is over and then start hunting Wolves.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to catch one today. Today is one of the only chances we have of actually keeping the WWs from making an extra kill. Once they have four it will be extremely difficult to get them back down to three, so if we can keep them from getting to four tonight that would really help.

But as I pointed out before, our chances of hitting a WW while looking for the EW are probably just as good as hitting a WW while looking for a WW (at least on Day 1), and thus I do not want to lynch anyone today that people agree is not likely to have applied to be the EW.

Does everyone understand that point and agree with it?

[Volo]

Agan is definitely not sitting right with me. Really. There's something too... cunning and sneaky in her manner. I don't trust her a little bit. Something in her manner sharply reminds me of her in the Day0 of Volo's game where she was wolf but did not know the identity of her fellows. I can't say what exactly is the thing that is similar, but there is a freaky similarity. I think it has something to do with a certain devil-may-care attitude when it comes to accusing people. I bet that if she's a wolf who has not been told her fellows' identities, she does not care if she lynches them or not, she just wants to stay alive and thus accuses those that genuinely seem wolvish to her. Also, she's not the tiniest bit concerned about flushing out gifteds. I may be reading too much into this, but I think there's this sort of recklessness behind her posts and I do not like it. But if we better wolf candidates, I'm all for keeping her as she's quite sharp and can benefit us as much as her own team.
Well you're right there - at least that's what I did in Volo's game. But that argument doesn't quite apply to here - the wolves just can't play the way they'd like. If they don't know the EW's identity, they have to be careful not to accidentally accuse her.Actually, Lommy made a very good point about Agan. She [Agan] certainly tosses suspicions that way and this way and banters an unnerving ammount of time. At points I'm not sure whether she's joking or not, and that I regard dangerous, because she can always decide later which way she meant it. Ok - maybe I'm only complaining that she's joking at all as I'm refering to her suspicions in #68.
But what is more suspicious is her answer to Lommy's suspicion. I don't think it makes a difference and it certainly doesn't work as a defence.

It's quite unnerving to me, but I however agree with Agan about Legate. He felt systematical, tight and nastier than usually in the beginning, and although Mac overdid his questioning a bit, Legate got unnecessarily glued to the question of tp's cobblerism. Then he changes back to good ol' kind Leggie when he answers me and changes the subject away from tp in the post before. He must have realized that there was something wrong with what he was doing. Yes, also this: Eee, Volo, I only hope one answer would be sufficient for you, okay? Anyway, I don't have much other to comment on, so I can give it a little time. But just a little, mind you. He noticed it! (Personally though, I find his answer good enough and quite sensible. Does it mean he's admiting that it isn't sensible? :S)

Lily I do suspect slightly, but her I suspect even when we aren't playing Werewolf. I'll see what it is this time later.

edit: Xd with all since #144.

[Isabellkya]

++ Roa

I need to vote, part random mixed with suspicion.


X'd with phantom and Volo.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++ Phantom

He bothers me the most, out of everyone I find not-quite-right.

[A Little Green]

Still not much ideas, I'm afraid. I'm bothered by the amount of random votes cast toDay. There's been, what, three somewhat random votes (and at least one with no explanation) in the current total of eight votes. I think it is too much and I don't like it. Unfortunately there isn't much I can do about it. :(

I might vote Gwath toDay. Others that worry me are McCaber (under the radar and inactive), the phantom (I have honestly no idea of what he's aiming at, and it starts to irritate me) and possibly Agan (there is something in her overall manner that just doesn't sit right with me).

Other than that, I don't have much to say. I'll be back to vote if nothing else, probably well before the deadline considering my current rate of tiredness. (<- is that even a proper word?)


EDIT: x-ed since Rikae

[Volo]

Tp is being framed quite a lot - I'm quite confident about it. Even though he's all amazing and handsome and everything great, his situation looks exactly like so many Day1 lynches of preveous games. Somebody who's doing something crazy/unusual and is lynched because of that, and of course, is Innocent. An easy lynch, this one!
I'm aware that I contradict myself, because I have not the slightest idea about tp myself otherwise and am quite annoyed with such a style, remembering Fea, but the outcome looks grim.

[Aganzir]

Aganzir, I love you! If I wasn't taken already, I'd be in line with your suitors. That's what I've been thinking all along. Thank you for putting it into clearer words.
I am flattered. :Merisu: Anyway, glad to be of some help. :D

Well, that's what I thought you meant but it makes little sense to me. Rather far-fetched, I should say. Why would anything like that occur to anyone?
I don't know. Maybe because it looks like that.

And am I right in thinking that the only ones left to post are Di and Nilp?
Yes.

Does everyone understand that point and agree with it?
Makes sense to me.

At points I'm not sure whether she's joking or not, and that I regard dangerous, because she can always decide later which way she meant it. Ok - maybe I'm only complaining that she's joking at all as I'm refering to her suspicions in #68.
If you can't figure out whether I'm serious or not, I'm most likely joking.

edit: xed with Greenie and Volo

[Eönwë]

Look at what tp wrote (boldening and underlining is mine):



That's what I'm doing. Or rather, I'm trying to encourage lots of reactions/talking/etc that I can look at and digest after the day is over and then start hunting Wolves.
Is that before or after you've killed them?

Anyway, I've been quite suspicious of his motives the whole time, so:

++the phantom

[McCaber]

Ok, I'm back and better than ever. So I'd rather keep the phantom around, just because I haven't played with him yet, but I am keeping him under suspicion. He's said some things I wouldn't expect him to.

My darling Aganzir, well, I think she's more innocent than not. But I can't say the same for some of my other relatives.

Well, I hate flying under the radar like this, but I'm running out of time toDay.

[the phantom]

Makes sense to me.
Glad to hear it. Really, the things I've been saying all along have a huge amount of truth in them. Perhaps it is uncomfortable to hear, but you cannot pretend that I am showing the situation for anything other than exactly what it is, even if I am doing it in a fatalistic manner. It ought to at least help everyone make sure their priorities are in order.

The voting-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp

tp- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1

Out of those that have votes thus far, I certainly do not wish to lynch myself.

morm.... nah. Not now.

Roa, Izzy, and Cailin- definitely not now.

So that leaves Sally and Brin.

Unfortunately I haven't played much with either one and I haven't had time to go back and reread this thread to look for things, so I really can't say if I suspect them or not. Certainly I'd prefer them to the others at this time.

What about Di and Nilp? If you've played with me before you know that it really bugs me when people don't post. Even though she hasn't said a word I'd rather vote for Di at this point than any of the others who already have votes.

[Volo]

Is that before or after you've killed them?
What do you mean by this?

(It's not allowed to edit posts in WW, except for marking cross-posting, even though it's enjoyable - I know from experience.)

edit: Xd with tp

[the phantom]

Wow. There are still 17 votes left to be cast, and only one hour left.

It will be quite busy in the next 60 minutes I am thinking.

[Aganzir]

A thing I was to say already in my last post but forgot.

Sadly, it points exactly why I have an urge to get rid of him. I distrust him, even though I'm kind of assuming he's on the same side with me.
I feel uneasy how Lommy keeps using the term "same side". She did it also earlier, in #90
But if we better wolf candidates, I'm all for keeping her as she's quite sharp and can benefit us as much as her own team.
Makes me wonder whether Lommy is a wolf trying to find her pack the EW didn't reveal her.

And if there was a list of non-wolves and my name was on it, it would explain her attacks against me. I wouldn't put it past her to try to find her fellows like that.

edit: xed since m'dear McC

[the phantom]

Is that before or after you've killed them?
Ha ha ha!

I'm not a WW, Eonwe. Yes, no doubt the EW would like to have me on the team at some point, but not at the start!

I'm too likely to be scried by the GW, dreamed of by the Seer, or lynched early for doing something crazy.

But once past the opening couple days- that is when you'd want to convert me.

If I was a WW I would show up mid-day and try not to rock the boat too much on Day 1. Wouldn't you?

[Volo]

Wow. There are still 17 votes left to be cast, and only one hour left.:D This is most amusing. I probably just now realized that this is one huge village!

What about Di and Nilp? If you've played with me before you know that it really bugs me when people don't post. Even though she hasn't said a word I'd rather vote for Di at this point than any of the others who already have votes.Why so? It could well be a wasted vote/lynch as there is modfire in this game. I remember Nilp missing Day1 before, but he did come back on Day2. Then again, ok, it is frustrating - haha, I done it myself too. What haven't I done yet... :rolleyes:

edit: Xd since quoted post.

[Isabellkya]

I thought Deadline was at 11pm GMT.. which is roughly 6 minutes from now. Or is toDay 25 hours long? Or am I failing at timezone conversion?



X'd with phantom and Volo.

[Cailín]

++NERWEN

Not really a retribution vote, rather I don't have any other strong suspicions; so as not to incur the wrath of Roa and her ilk, I will vote for who I deem evil. There's still a chance we can lynch her today. Here's why she's suspicious:

Her opening post seems rather wolvish to me: it's long and doesn't say much; she criticises other people's methods, in order to achieve a place on the pedestal of sense. She accuses me of making pointless lists, but then gets defensive and votes for me after I questioned her virtue.

[Aganzir]

I thought Deadline was at 11pm GMT.. which is roughly 6 minutes from now. Or is toDay 25 hours long? Or am I failing at timezone conversion?
11 pm gmt which is 12 pm gst. Still an hour to go.

edit: xed with Cailín

[THE Ka]

Ah, I see that Ka has me figured out.

Naturally.

Oh, and yeah, my the phantom wanting attention comment was supposed to mean he always wants attention, though it was worded strangely. I was in rant-mode, so I was just typing whatever came out of my head. Probably do that too much.

No worries, my brain is certainly off somewhere today as it seems my workload for classes has doubled today, belgh. Probably am going to be killed for it, but oh well, I tried to play.

*pats the Ka*

So, does this mean you'll take my finals for me? :Merisu:


Roa's mistake is a bit strange, but Ka's words about me over faulty evidence is more worrying. Based on events of Day 1 she's right at the top of my suspicion list.

That hit me in the face five minutes afterwards when I was starting my car up for work, I confused names:(. I actually started with Celuien, then was in a hurry and going over posts one one time and noticed that a few others put your name instead, then I thought I was wrong in my quote, etc. I'm terribly sorry if it offended you, I trust you it was a mistake.
Though, I understand your right to feel insulted completely and would take no hurt if you wished to vote. I'm actually a bit surprised at my sloppy confused self right now too.

Though tp's lists can be as suspicious as everyone else's, I will have to agree with him on this (even if he apparently started the EW or wolf debate, but I suspect this was just to get the rest of us to actually start talking...):

Oh, and as far as deciding who we should try and lynch, the EW or WWs, does it really matter much who we gun for?

No it doesn't at all, but that does leave us with relatively no plans later on. Though, toDay might as well be the fuel for that plan, whatever it becomes, later on.


Okay, so I'm quickly running out of time before the deadline hits, and I won't be here in the next few hours, so I am going to vote (yes random, I feel horrible about it), but after looking back on my posts I think I do have some actual suspicions to it. Not because of any reasons for being 'unorganized' or having little in posts (okay, who truly is 'organized' with their reasoning on day one? if that were the only reason I could vote myself out as well), just past actions of acting strongly for contradictory arguments.

++Celuien

[Lalaith]

Izzy - I'm going by the fact that Day started at 11.56pm. So I'm assuming it ends just before midnight.

[A Little Green]

Bah. I think I'm going to bed now. My vote shall be

++ Gwathagor

for reasons stated earlier, because at this point I have found no better lynch candidate to go for.

Vote well, little ones, and sleep well after that.


EDIT: x-ed since tp

[Brinniel]

Hello, I'm back...a little later than planned, I must admit. But goodness, a vote for me already...and didn't I only make two posts?

Well, it took me about an hour to catch up on all the posts. It's nice to see so much discussion, but at the same time it can make it so much more difficult to get a detailed analysis of everyone. While I do like to be thorough, being the slow poster I am, it'd probably be deadline before I finished doing all the analysing I'd like to. And with so much reading in one sitting, I admit sometimes halfway through one post I'd forget who was doing the posting...then of course I half to scroll up and check, then re-read. :rolleyes:

First off:
So, the plan's lynch people at random in the hope that some of them will turn out to be wolves, who will in turn give a clue to the EW?
No, that's not what I said. All I meant by it was that's it's more important to find the wolves right now. If we happen to catch the EW, that's great, but we have better odds in finding the wolves and by catching one we'll get a better idea who's the EW. That doesn't mean we have to lynch people by random. Just because there aren't connections between the wolves doesn't mean there aren't ways to find them suspicious; there are ways...as you mentioned in your first post. Besides, in a typical WW game while there may be connections between wolves from the start, we can never see those connections at Day 1...not until after there's been a lynch. So really, I see this Day 1 as any other. We should lynch whoever we think is acting most suspicious...I don't see how else to do it.

Some people who have caught my eye:

morm: Well, honestly I don't see what he finds so suspicious about me...but I don't find his accusations suspicious itself. He says it's partly gut feeling and since he had to vote early I can kind of understand...I tend to follow my gut as well, especially if I have to vote early on.

Lommy: I agree with a lot that she has to say and she seems to be making sense. She looks more innocentish for now..

phantom: Very attention seeking, but I don't think that's suspicious behaviour. Someone previously mentioned that they really do think he just wants to capture attention from the wizards...and I think that's true.

Volo: Did make a slip, but that's certainly not reason alone to suspect him.

Kitanna: Is very sisterly in defending me. :cool: I don't exactly agree in her suspecting morm, but I can understand her reasoning. Innocentish.

Aganzir: Currently the best lynching candidate I have. It's something about her tone...and her two line responses to many quotes that sets me off. Plus, her reasons for suspecting me seem flawed. I almost feel like she's feebly trying to bandwagon with morm. Err...well I don't think those are strong enough reasons for a vote, but I'm definitely going to go back and have a better look at her...

We still haven't heard from Di or Nilp. Where are they?

Anyways, I'm sure I'll be x-posting with many....

EDIT: Sure enough, I x-ed with five others...and that's not including what I read in the preview page!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, young man, they say that love makes even the wisest of us blind and my daughter is an attractive girl (of course she is: she has her mother's genes), so I won't blame you.
Maybe it's like that. (In fact, I thought someone would post that... I thought the same when posting that.)

But as I pointed out before, our chances of hitting a WW while looking for the EW are probably just as good as hitting a WW while looking for a WW (at least on Day 1), and thus I do not want to lynch anyone today that people agree is not likely to have applied to be the EW.

Does everyone understand that point and agree with it?

Yes, but my personal belief, as stated somewhere high above, is that it does not matter in the end. It will be *somebody*. But as for that, Greenie as well as Volo could do for the above, now I am inclined towards LG (just why can't I remain with this label of mine and get influenced by the others?) somewhat more. However still I can't say it will be that much... you know, not that sure. I am a little (green :rolleyes: okay, that was a stupid joke) worried in her case that I may really, really be doing wrong to her by that. More than I would be in Volo's case, or Gwath's case, for that matter. I would formulate it this way: LG is more suspicious overall, but I am more worried that I am mistaken in her case. Volo, for example, is less suspicious than her, but I will feel more sure with him.

And for all further voters: I don't think phantom is a good idea on vote. Not at all. He is innocent, I says. Although I see this "spirit of relativism" is settling down on me, as always... but that early... :rolleyes:

EDIT: x-ed since some... well surely before the start of this page. Before #161.

[Isabellkya]

I also forgot that we are in Daylight Savings here.. so there is a seven hour difference, rather than the usual eight. Ahh phoeuy.



phantom
Wow. There are still 17 votes left to be cast, and only one hour left.

Volo
:D This is most amusing. I probably just now realized that this is one huge village!

Ahaha, I did was well when you both pointed it out. 17 votes left.. sheesh.



X'd with Green, Brin, Legate. Spelling error.

[Volo]

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Nerwen
Ka for Celuien
Lily for Gwath

tp- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Nerwen- 1
Celuien- 1
Gwath- 1

Crazy Day! Probably the most half-random votes for different candidates in WW history! And I myself was thinking Agan or Legate...


Xd since Lily

[the phantom]

The voting-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath

tp- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Ner- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1

Regarding the most recent votes-

I don't want to vote for Cel. She could be a WW, but nothing has stood out to me and I don't think she is the EW.

Gwath- no clue. I need for the day to end to have time and go back and read over people's posts.

And then there's Nerwen. Finally someone cast a vote for someone who made my top 5 list. Right before the game started I made a list of the most likely Wizards, you see, and Nerwen was in the top five.

So right now she's my favorite target of the ones that have votes at this point, but I really ought to go back and read what she's posted today. Maybe after reading I won't be so inclined to vote for her.

[McCaber]

Well, here's my vote.

Once again, I don't have much time personally to explain it, but

++Nerwen

[Brinniel]

Makes me wonder whether Lommy is a wolf trying to find her pack the EW didn't reveal her.
I think Aganzir may be reading too much into how something is phrased. I mean, first me and now Lommy...

I really would like to vote Aganzir, but I worry that may spread out the voting too much. I don't want to see tp lynched as I also think he's probably being framed..

Perhaps I should take a look at the others being voted for...

[the phantom]

There are still 14 votes left out there, in case you were wondering.

[Macalaure]

Tp is being framed quite a lot - I'm quite confident about it.

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, all who voted him to his death were confused ordos, while the wolves stayed away from him so they won't look bad (which is very easy given the way the votes are spread).

he's all amazing and handsome and everything great

It's the genes. ;)


It's getting late here. Let's add another name to the pool. It's size is already hopeless anyway :D. I'm going to vote for my top suspect...

++Legate of Amon Lanc

[Aganzir]

I think Aganzir may be reading too much into how something is phrased. I mean, first me and now Lommy...

I really would like to vote Aganzir, but I worry that may spread out the voting too much. I don't want to see tp lynched as I also think he's probably being framed..

Perhaps I should take a look at the others being voted for...
I tend to do that. Always.

[Nogrod]

The deadline is by the 'Downs time 11.00 PM GMT sharp.

That means something like 11.03/04 PM GMT real time.

Just watch the 'Downs clock at the bottom of your window and remember to update the page. All those votes with the marking 11.00 PM GMT will be counted. All those going over it will not be counted.

EDIT: Sorry I posted this with Greenie's name already but deleted it then. We're all three (Lommy, Greenie and myself) using the same computer so just forgive us... :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And then there's Nerwen. Finally someone cast a vote for someone who made my top 5 list. Right before the game started I made a list of the most likely Wizards, you see, and Nerwen was in the top five.

So right now she's my favorite target of the ones that have votes at this point, but I really ought to go back and read what she's posted today. Maybe after reading I won't be so inclined to vote for her.
Two minutes later:
Well, here's my vote.

Once again, I don't have much time personally to explain it, but

++Nerwen

Is it just me, or is it just a random thing (however I think McCaber could write such a short post under two minutes, no?), or is it the first real bandwaggon-jump I saw here? It will be probably too obvious, though. But, if McCaber really has not much time on his hands, why not do it... McC, have you seen phantom's post before you posted...?

EDIT: x-ed since the quoted posts

[Lalaith]

Hmm...
I've been sitting here pondering my Volo/Aganzir/Nerwen/Roa axis of concern, while trying to keep up with new posts and voting.

I said earlier that Cailin had been talking sense, and her case against Nerwen echoed many of the thoughts I've been having. Aganzir I'm almost equally concerned about (this casual habit of picking up of theories and putting them down again) but of the two I think Nerwen is the more likely to be a EW.
Roa - would she be a wiz two games in a row? I doubt it. And Volo...he's talking a bit more on my wavelength in the last few posts he's made.
And then there's the Mac/Legate thing, I will keep an eye on that too tomorrow, if I am spared.
Enough pondering, it is time to act.
+++NERWEN

[Thinlómien]

I'd love to vote Agan and I know Brinn and Volo could do that too, but that really isn't much as tp already has 4 votes... I know I don't really enjoy him being around as he's mostly baffling and a nuisance :p ;) but lynching him, I think, would be a mistake...

But none of the other vote candidates really appeal to me either... I must think.

[the phantom]

Is it just me, or is it just a random thing (however I think McCaber could write such a short post under two minutes, no?), or is it the first real bandwaggon-jump I saw here? It will be probably too obvious, though. But, if McCaber really has not much time on his hands, why not do it... McC, have you seen phantom's post before you posted...?
I don't know. It did surprise me a bit when I refreshed the page to see, so soon after my post, a vote for Nerwen. I can't remember how much time elapsed though. There's a huge difference between 179 seconds and 61 seconds, both of which could mark the possible gap between the two posts.

[Aganzir]

I'd love to vote Agan and I know Brinn and Volo could do that too, but that really isn't much as tp already has 4 votes...
I don't know if I should laugh or cry. :rolleyes:

I don't really understand this Nerwen bandwagon, and I'd rather let her live.

[mormegil]

I just poked my head in and I haven't read anything since my vote but I looked at the vote count and I think it foolish to lynch the phantom at this stage. I say this from the vantage point of having a great deal of familiarity with him...don't let his abrasive nature make you think he is guilty.

[Thinlómien]

But as I pointed out before, our chances of hitting a WW while looking for the EW are probably just as good as hitting a WW while looking for a WW (at least on Day 1), and thus I do not want to lynch anyone today that people agree is not likely to have applied to be the EW.
Does everyone understand that point and agree with it?Yes and yes, for me. But the current voting situation may affect my choice more than that, and people's level of suspiciousness definitely will.

Anyway, like I just said, I'd love to vote Agan. I'd also like to vote Kath because she has been rather unconstructive toDay, will probably slip under the radar, could have applied to be the EW and would be a good wolf pick for the EW. Sadly, I might have to choose someone else...


edit: xed with tp, Agan and morm

[Durelin]

Why does phantom have the most votes?

It's between Cailin and Nerwen for me. Could go either way, but of the *lists* they each made, I think both Nerwen's were more looking-like-helpful but not actually helpful, while Cailin's was more controversial. So, Nerwen's were safer and more useless. I'm thinking Nerwen, but I need to read

But then, Eonwe's voting post is ridiculous.

Don't get Isabel's vote.

So, has Greenie been as consistent as I recall in her chugging along against Gwath and now voting for him? Yes, consistency makes me wonder...

But goodness, a vote for me already...and didn't I only make two posts?

And yer point is? You're just lucky Nogrod's busy being...dead. :p

it seems to me, reading back, that the main advocates for searching for wolves versus searching for the EW were Roa, myself, Lhuna, Brinn, and Cailin. The ones advocating searching for the EW were Phantom, morm, and Gwath. Looking at Mac's list, it seems to me that he is quietly suspicious of everyone who wanted to look for the wolves first; "Only a little like" (Lhuna), "Not very much like" (me, Cailin), "No like" (Roa), "Really not sure" (Brinn).

Yeah, he's said that several times. You're conclusion from that is...?

Aganzir still bothers me. Need to focus on her the next reading-over I do. (Or rather, the first real reading-over I do...)

But right now I find Nerwen's posts and behavior the most suspicious and I actually have a sort of gut feeling about her that's not good.

++Nerwen

Edit: Crossed with everything from Volo's vote count.

[Diamond18]

Hey all. Sorry, I've been hanging out in Cel's candle shop, eating her candles.

And that's my half-hearted attempt at being in character.

Personally I'm going to leave most of that fun to the mod, and his narrations.

That said, I feel inclined to forgive my big brother for expressing a desire to lynch me... it's phantom, this game won't be as fun without him, so I'm disappointed to see a lynch party amassing for him.

I haven't played WW for a long time and I'm very much out of the habit, so all these posts are fairly overwhelming. I should post more tomorrow, if there is a tomorrow for me... also need to read the rules again to make sure I know what's going on.

In the meantime, since it's half hour before the deadline I'm going to muse upon who to vote for in order to spare phantom the lynch. Not gonna lie, that's my only motivation right now.

[Thinlómien]

I don't really understand this Nerwen bandwagon, and I'd rather let her live.Agreed. And I really wouldn't like to choose between Nerwie and phantommy, because then I'd reall vote the latter, and like I just said, I think it would be a mistake. Like Volo said, it'd be just like so many recent villages: lynching an oddly behaving yet contributing villager who turns out to be innocent... :rolleyes:


edit: xed with Dury and... Di! Fantastic!

[the phantom]

I'm glad that you see where I am coming from Lommy.

Now, what do you know about Agan? Do you think she is the sort who would volunteer to be a Wizard? Does she have time for it?

And I agree with you about Kath. She was on my top five list as well.

[Thinlómien]

Now, what do you know about Agan? Do you think she is the sort who would volunteer to be a Wizard? Does she have time for it?Big yes to both. And she'd sell her soul to be the EW. ;)

[the phantom]

Well look who decided to show up- my baby sister! Maybe I won't try and lynch you after all. :p

[Volo]

Yes and yes, for me. But the current voting situation may affect my choice more than that, and people's level of suspiciousness definitely will.I for one don't agree with tp. The people to apply for the position of a Wizards are probably not the flying under the radar people that have been said to be good choices for the Wizards for their minions. So we're not hunting the same people. I'm not quite sure if Nerwen would apply for the high post of a Wizard, neither I suspect her, after reading through her posts. I think we'd get more out of her on the later Days that would reveal her role.

Legate probably applied, but Agan is a great choice for a Wolf. Kath most certainly applied, but I have no ideas about her at the moment. Ok, let's do something before things are completely futile!

edit: Xd with all since Dury's vote.

[Brinniel]

Sally: Nothing about her screams suspicious. I don't feel like she gave enough reason behind her vote, but really that's it...

Nerwen: A lot of people seem to find her suspicious. I admit I was trying to see her as a possible candidate, but I can't find a good enough reason to vote her...

Cailin:
I'm thinking about voting for THE Ka, for her carelessly copying Roa's misquote about me. Although she doesn't really make a big deal of it, which makes me wonder.
I don't like the idea she'd consider voting someone for copying a misquote. It's a big game and people are unintentionally going to make mistakes. I know I'd probably make the same mistake as Ka. I also don't really like how she so suddenly jumps on Nerwen.

Hmm...I have no idea what to think about the others. Urgh, I'm running out of time...

Anyways, I could vote for Aganzir or Cailin. But I won't go for the tp and Nerwen bandwagon.

[Durelin]

This 'choosing' thing is a bit silly, Lommy. Vote for who you feel is suspicious! Aren't there still a number of votes floating out there anyway (no, you can't rely on people showing up, but...)? Going on about how you don't want to vote for someone and making it seem like you have to...that's like sugar-coating to hide wolfy-ness. :p

Edit - crossed with a few people but doesn't really matter.

[the phantom]

The voting-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner

tp- 4
Ner- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1

10 votes have not been cast.

[Thinlómien]

Legate probably applied, but Agan is a great choice for a Wolf. Kath most certainly applied, but I have no ideas about her at the moment. Ok, let's do something before things are completely futile!Hmmm... Legate has said he's in the middle of his final exams, so I don't know if he'd be mad enough to apply to be a wizard. Of Kath I'm not sure either - I'm not sure if she's ambitious (if that's a good word here) enough to apply...


edit: xed with tp, Brin and Dury (whatever their order was)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What's with all the questions, Lommy? You make the impression of a person who doesn't have own opinion to think. Which I don't think you are. Anyway, there's still looots of people to vote, so tp can be "overvoted", I think. Not that I see Nerwen lynched rather than him... although she might be a wolf, or an EW, maybe rather than him.

Tp, as for Agan being the EW... she well enough could. If it were to choose between her and some of the other two named, even she would do... but then... I really don't know. At least at the beginning I thought her innocentish. Lately probably other people's observations, or suspicions of her, influenced me as well in some way. But there are still other options which I had earlier... hm.

EDIT: x-ed since phantom's 191 post

[Lalaith]

ambitious

I think the word is hubris...

[Volo]

Hmmm... Legate has said he's in the middle of his final exams, so I don't know if he'd be mad enough to apply to be a wizard. Of Kath I'm not sure either - I'm not sure if she's ambitious (if that's a good word here) enough to apply...
Well, but Kath has nothing better to do and Legate's exams just ended (Shire thread- hey, this is stupid!! So metagame as can be - and hey, I've done that too myself!)

edit: Xd since quoted post.

[Durelin]

I just had a random (okay, not so random, because people are talking about it, as always) thought... So...we treat 'bandwagons' like negative things. Doesn't it take a bandwagon to actually get anyone lynched? Isn't a bandwagon just any number of people voting for the same person?

Yes, I'm going to rant about every little thing that annoys me about these games whenever it suits me.

[Aganzir]

Hmmm... Legate has said he's in the middle of his final exams, so I don't know if he'd be mad enough to apply to be a wizard.
Still I think he's likely to be cursed by the EW.

I'd really feel like voting for him, but I wouldn't want tp or Nerwen to die.

edit: xed since Legate

[Volo]

I just had a random (okay, not so random, because people are talking about it, as always) thought... So...we treat 'bandwagons' like negative things. Doesn't it take a bandwagon to actually get anyone lynched? Isn't a bandwagon just any number of people voting for the same person?

Yes, I'm going to rant about every little thing that annoys me about these games whenever it suits me.Oh, not now! Please...

Xd with all since quoted post.

[Thinlómien]

Votes this far:

I could vote
-none, it seems-

I'd rather not vote
tp- 4
Ner- 4
morm- 2
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Cel- 1
Legate- 1
Gwath- 1

I won't vote
Brin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1


Okay, let's waste/spread a/the vote:

++AGANZIR


edit: xed with everybody since my last post

[Volo]

Still I think he's likely to be cursed by the EW.Nah, as a ex-professional surviver I know that your tricks in the art are far superior to Legate's, which would imply more on you being a Wolf. :p

[Durelin]

Agan and Lommy need to have stronger opinions. :p

What not now, Volo? No WW theory 13-or-so minutes from the deadline?

Edit: Crossed with Lommy - I spoke wrongly.

[Diamond18]

Maybe I won't try and lynch you after all.

I will be trying harder to read/post from now on -- I forgot the game was starting until I got my Daily Digest notification of the first couple page's worth of posts. Ah well.

I think Nerwen has 4 votes now?

This 'choosing' thing is a bit silly, Lommy. Vote for who you feel is suspicious!

(Not Lommy, but responding anyway) Yeah, but this mostly gets us with a ton of people with 1 or 2 votes... and a person with 3 or 4 votes kicking the bucket. And for my part, if I would rather not see the person in the lead get lynched, it makes more sense to vote for an alternative despite having no opinion on that person, herself.

So I suppose I'll go for:

+ + Nerwen

I have yet to decide what my goal for this game is. I have no allegiance chosen for me, yet, and who knows what subsequent nights will result in. So for me the lynching today is more about who I'd rather play with in future days than who is on what side, and since I don't actually know Nerwen and do know phantom, my motivation is to save the latter. He's not a bad big bro, after all. :D

[Volo]

++Aganzir
I'll sleep calmer after this.

What not now, Volo? No WW theory 13-or-so minutes from the deadline?Not so (vague) that we'll have a long discussion about it not leading to any decisions.

edit: Xd with Di. *sigh* :(

[Thinlómien]

What's with all the questions, Lommy? What questions?

:D:D Just realised what I did.

Agan and Lommy need to have stronger opinions. Of each other? :p


edit: xed with Dury's edit, Di and Volo

[Brinniel]

Ha, Aganzir is certainly twisted enough to be the EW :p , but I wouldn't vote for her because I think she is the EW, but because I think she's suspicious. Anyways, all this last minute talk about who might be EW is getting ridiculous (especially the meta reasons)...we really need to vote for whoever is more suspicious!

I just had a random (okay, not so random, because people are talking about it, as always) thought... So...we treat 'bandwagons' like negative things. Doesn't it take a bandwagon to actually get anyone lynched? Isn't a bandwagon just any number of people voting for the same person?
Well yes, but it's the nature of how a bandwagon comes that worries me. Like this Nerwen one came up all at once. That make it easy for a wolf to hide. Anyways, I like discussing about who to vote for before actually doing it.

[Aganzir]

I find it highly amusing that I tend to survive as a wolf and be suspected as an innocent.

edit: xed with Brinn

[Thinlómien]

Di - as long as you've not been assigned an allegiance, you're on the good people's side. Understand? That is vital. I don't really understand this neutrality-attitude... :eek:


edit: xed with Brinn and Agan

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I just went through the voting list and I really don't feel up to voting for anyone who is on it this far. Silliness :rolleyes: Even this Gwath, I would prefer to keep him "on ice" for now...

Hmmm... Legate has said he's in the middle of his final exams, so I don't know if he'd be mad enough to apply to be a wizard.
Oh no, please, let's not bring such things here - it's nothing to do with the game... although I understand...

Oh, I see, besides
Well, but Kath has nothing better to do and Legate's exams just ended (Shire thread- hey, this is stupid!! So metagame as can be - and hey, I've done that too myself!)
Exactly, however a bad conclusion - now see where this metagame thinking goes - my exams have not been finished yet. Not all of them. Just some. So you see. Anyway... enough of this... should vote...

EDIT: x-ed since some Volo or what I quoted

[Volo]

Di - as long as you've not been assigned an allegiance, you're on the good people's side. Understand? That is vital. I don't really understand this neutrality-attitude... :eek:
:D:D Indeed!

[the phantom]

The voting-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner
Lommy for Agan
Di for Ner
Volo for Agan

Ner- 5
tp- 4
morm- 2
Agan- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1

7 votes have not been cast.

[Thinlómien]

I find it highly amusing that I tend to survive as a wolf and be suspected as an innocent.And you've said that so many times that it starts to be a suspicious statement, especially now as you're really only in a tiny danger of actually getting lynched. :rolleyes:


edit: xed with the three gentlemen

[Thinlómien]

Volo, it's a serious issue. Stop laughing at me.

:D

[the phantom]

Who hasn't voted?

Me, I know, but who else?

[Diamond18]

Di - as long as you've not been assigned an allegiance, you're on the good people's side. Understand? That is vital. I don't really understand this neutrality-attitude... :eek:

I know that's the rule, but I'm a rebel. If I don't have a special role, I'm bored, and have to make my fun other ways.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right... whatever. Looking at the votes... If there's a chance to have Aganzir there... why not try...
EEE, but I don't like the idea of lynching her!

But more so than Nerwen... or do I...

(That's called schizophrenia.)

All right, I know what I will do: I will vote for Aganzir, but in fact, I will be maybe comfortable if it's Nerwen who ends up lynched. (Or I won't. Depends on who she shows to be...)

[Brinniel]

++Aganzir

[Aganzir]

And you've said that so many times that it starts to be a suspicious statement, especially now as you're really only in a tiny danger of actually getting lynched. :rolleyes:


edit: xed with the three gentlemen
Now you're inventing things. I rolled my eyes at you earlier, but it doesn't count. :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Who hasn't voted?

Me, I know, but who else?

I haven't. Thinking. Thinking if I can afford voting for Aganzir, bearing the risk that it's not well-thought vote from me and she may actually end up lynched after all.

EDIT: x-ed since TP, Brinn didn't help that.

[Aganzir]

I haven't voted.

[Durelin]

Of each other?

Haha, actually I thought something like that when I saw that Aganzir replied to a quote from you with her own similar voting conundrum.

Well yes, but it's the nature of how a bandwagon comes that worries me. Like this Nerwen one came up all at once.

Well McCaber's vote certainly came up all at once. Cailin's switch was a bit vindictive maybe, but I figure she knew she didn't really have much on Ka at all. And she did have some kind of case against Nerwen. Lalaith just cites that case, but...

We've been discussing who to vote for. But do you mean discuss and reach a general consensus? Then no, we haven't done that and I don't wanna! :p

I find it highly amusing that I tend to survive as a wolf and be suspected as an innocent.

I find this amusing. Kinda reminds me of sally's sappy *I promise I'm not a wolf!* thing the last game I played in. Also, you can survive and still be suspected. We don't all die. Someone has to win, anyway...

Edit: Sudden Aganzir bandwagon, Brinniel? :p

[Diamond18]

It would seem my computer's clock is four minutes ahead of the 'Downs.

Bah.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I haven't. Thinking. Thinking if I can afford voting for Aganzir, bearing the risk that it's not well-thought vote from me and she may actually end up lynched after all.



Uh.... if you don't want to see Agan lynched, don't vote her?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good, Aganzir hasn't voted. I am leaving that to the mercy of the... nameless mob of five people, or what was the number, who haven't voted.

++Aganzir

[Thinlómien]

Nilp, Kath, Lhuna, tp, Agan and Legate, that's who hasn't voted yet.


edit: xed with Durelin and everyone after her

[Durelin]

Thinking if I can afford voting for Aganzir, bearing the risk that it's not well-thought vote from me and she may actually end up lynched after all.

Take some responsibility, man! ;)

(Hopes she won't be this obnoxious toMorrow...or you can hope I'm not here at all toMorrow.)

Edit: Obviously crossed with some. Whatev.

[Brinniel]

I find it odd that Legate votes for Aganzir, yet he's worried she may be lynched...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Uh.... if you don't want to see Agan lynched, don't vote her?

Yes, but I didn't want to vote Nerwen either, for different reasons, but for both of them it was more or less the same weight of why to vote and why not. But as you see, I ultimately made up my mind.

[Aganzir]

++ Nerwen

I don't like this but :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

Sudden Aganzir bandwagon, Brinniel?
But I said I wanted to vote for her for sometime...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I find it odd that Legate votes for Aganzir, yet he's worried she may be lynched...

Yes, you see, I don't want to make a waste-vote at such a time, yet neither of those is among my top suspects and I would have needed more time to think it over to vote with the famous "good conscience".

[the phantom]

The voting-

morm for Brin
Sally for tp
Gwath for Sally
Kit for morm
Nerwen for Cailin
Roa for tp
Cel for Izzy
Rikae for morm
Izzy for Roa
Shasta for tp
Eonwe for tp
Cailin for Ner
Ka for Cel
Green for Gwath
McCab for Ner
Mac for Legate
Lal for Ner
Dur for Ner
Lommy for Agan
Di for Ner
Volo for Agan
Brin for Agan
Legate for Agan
Agan for Ner

Ner- 6
tp- 4
Agan- 4
morm- 2
Brin- 1
Sally- 1
Cailin- 1
Izzy- 1
Roa- 1
Cel- 1
Gwath- 1
Legate- 1

4 votes have not been cast.

[Nogrod]

The Day has ended.

Nerwen will die shortly...

[Nogrod]

The boy sprang violently up from his chair. Tears were filling his eyes and his jaw was trembling.

“Herbert! What is it now my darling?” her mom asked startled.

“You all hate me! You’re just trying to get rid of me! And I know why!” His voice was breaking as he cried his words out.

“Now you listen to me young man! As long as I’m alive and the head of this family I will have none of that!"

The boy looked at the man his eyes full of hatred and fear. “You and your bloody war killed my father!” He turned around and ran off from the dinner table reaching for the door.

“Herbert! What are you talking about? Please come back my little boy!” her mom cried.

“You have just earned yourself a beating with that young man!” the man yelled after him but he had already gone slamming the door.

The boy ran through the deserted fields which no one had cared to sow this spring. The thunder of the artillery bombarding the enemy positions echoed from far away. The boy was already used to it not to pay any attention. But he did notice the absence of the birds. The blackbird which had its nest at the edge of the forest behind the fields was nowhere to be heard. He really loved its songs. They were the only comforting sounds he knew. But there was neither the swallow that used to go round the field chirping its simple tones of joy he couldn’t bear.

It was only by the deserted trench the boy stopped for a moment to glance backwards. No one was following him. What did I say? He thought to himself and jumped down to the trench. He followed the winding trench until he reached the old pillbox. It was pitch dark inside but he knew the way. He pulled a drawer open and picked the candle and matches as he was accustomed to.

When there was a faint light in the damp and cool bunker he finally sat down at the table and opened another drawer. There was a metal-plated box in there which he pulled out and set on the table. With shaking hands he opened it and drew the wooden figurines out laying them carefully on the table.

He had made them all himself, carved them from sticks during the cold winter nights in the bombshelters or in the darkened and joyless rooms they had hid from the air-raids or then later here in the pillbox which he had found earlier this spring.

Now they were all ready. He produced the drawing from the drawer and laid it on the table as well. It was a picture of a village with houses and yards, trees and paths, a wall and a central square. He set the figurines carefully to the map and then looked at his achievement quietly pleased with himself. Now they will all pay… he thought to himself. You will all die…


He remembered the autumn day back when he was yet a child. Her grandma had given him a mug of her own applejuice and watched over him as he draught it with a little boy’s enthusiasm. Then she had just stated bluntly “You know the dad of yours, he’s not actually your dad. He’s a vermin, a devil in disguise. That’s what he is. He made sure your father was ordered to the front, to the tightest place. My son never got out from there alive. And then this snake crawled to your mom’s bedroom using the cover of giving official regrets on behalf of the country! You believe it young man! He’s as foul as that… You should kill him when you’re old enough to do it. My hands are too weak and my feet too slow for it anymore – and your mom will never tell you the truth. They should hang that hussy as well.”

Do away with that tart! Rot in hell!

The boy squeezed the figurine of her mom in his small hands until it snapped in two.


*~*

The elders had sat on the Tavern-table listening to the row around them sipping their cider. They were shaking their heads listening to the younger ones.

“The young…” Greenie sighed.

Shasta nodded. “So fresh and soo full of energy…”

“Why don’t we just hunt both, the evil wizard and her minions? Now what is it with you?” Volo asked aloud and there was a silence. Everyone was looking at each other trying to find someone to blame for that ridiculous argument.

“And please Legate and Mac, behave yourselves!” Izzy added using the opportunity.


"It's Nerwen. Believe me! I don't want to incur the wrath of Roa and her ilk. And I have reasons to lynch her" Cailín said aloud.

"I don't have much time personally to explain it, but yes she is the one." echoed McCaber.

"I said earlier that Cailín had been talking sense, and her case against Nerwen echoed many of the thoughts I've been having. Enough pondering, it is time to act." added Lalaith.

Durelin broke in: "Right now I find Nerwen's speeches and behavior the most suspicious and I actually have a sort of gut feeling about her that's not good. I'll vote for her as well."

"I will be trying harder to listen to what you say from now on..." Diamond said. "And for my part, if I would rather not see the person in the lead get lynched, it makes more sense to vote for an alternative despite having no opinion on that person, herself". Her vote made Nerwen to pass the phantom.

"I don't like this but I'll vote for Nerwen as well..." Aganzir said.


The phantom sighed with relief as well as Agan who had gained a lot of votes late in the Day.

"Let's burn her!" Cailín yelled. "Death to the murderer of my husband!"

"Let's just rob her of her belongings" McCaber said giving a grin.

"We should burn her as Cailín says" added Lalaith.

"Let's not be too modest. Let's nail her to the oak-tree!" called Durelin.

"It's just the same... kill her... I don't want to see tp die anyhow." Di said grasping the hammer.

"And if you're thinking about killing me... then no way. Let's nail Nerwen first to see what she is." Aganzir said calmly and took the nails.



Nerwen was nailed to the oak-tree but nothing happened. She just waned little by little by no fault of her own. Some grinned with delight for that.



Alive:

+ A Little Green, a fortune-teller - folklorist - herb-grower - unofficial therapist, advisor and midwife, most presumably a witch, the gammer (the eccentric mother of Lommy & Mac)
+ Shastanis Althreduin, astrologer/fortune teller, gaffer (Greenie's husband, father of Lommy & Mac)
+ Isabellkaya, a gammer who loves asparagus and throwing knives (Shasta's sister)

+ Thinlómien, a bird tamer, adult (married to Nilp, Macalaure's sister)
+ Nilpaurion Felagund, a house-bound sandwich-maker, adult (married to Lommy)
+ Eönwë, Rikae's unofficial helper-person, 22 (their son)
+ Kath, tavern owner, 20 (their daughter, Brinn's life partner)
+ Satansaloser 2005, Lommy's assistant, 17 (their daughter)

+ Macalaure, apple farmer, adult (married to Rikae, Lommy's brother)
+ Rikae, a lumberjack, adult (married to Macalaure, Roa's sister)
+ the phantom, sheep herder with Legate, 21 (their adopted son, Di's brother)
+ Diamond 18, dissolute, 11 (phantom's pre-teen littlesister)

+ Cailín, guinea pig breeder, adult (Nilp's sister)
+ Lhunardawen, healer's apprentice, 20 (Cailín's daughter, good twin of Durelin)
+ Durelin, poisoner 20 (Lhuna's evil twin, daughter of Cailín)


+ Volo, the guy who knows everything about staying alive, the gaffer (Father of Nogrod, morm, Nerwen and Lalaith)

+ Roa_Aoife, school teacher, adult (mother of Legate, Brinn and Kit, wife of Nogrod, sister of Rikae)
+ Brinniel, Greenie's apprentice, 21 (Legate's sister and Kitanna's twin sister, Kath's life partner)
+ Kitanna, a tavern wench 21 (Legate's sister and Brinn's twin sister)
+ Legate of Amon Lanc, sheep herder with tp, 19 (brother of Brinn & Kit, Sally's boyfriend, Agan's ex-bf)

+ Lalaith, chocolate maker, adult (sister of Nerwen, mother of Aganzir, Volo's daughter)
+ Aganzir, the little match girl, 15 (Lalaith's daughter, dates McCaber)
+ The Ka, a dog whipper (a fatherless and ageless little child of Lalaith)

+ Mormegil, adult (son of Volo, husband of Celuien, father of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Celuien, a candle maker, adult (wife of morm, mother of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Gwathagor, a highwayman, 20 (McCaber's big brother)
+ McCaber, a henchman, 18 (Gwath's little brother, dates Aganzir)


The dead:
Eomer of the Rohirrim, adult (Cailín's husband, Lhuna's and Dury's father); An innocent beheaded by the werewolves on Night1
Nogrod, the judge, adult (Roa's husband, father of Legate, Brinn and Kit); An innocent torn in two by werewolves on Night1
Nerwen, the healer, adult (sister of Lalaith, Volo's daughter); An innocent nailed to the oak-tree on Day1.


Night 2 begins.

Wizards and their minions feel free to act.


PS. 239 posts after Day1! Not bad... :D

[Nogrod]

”Aaaaaaaahhhhhh!”

The nanny woke up to the scream and hasted herself. She rushed through the ante-chamber and past the corridor. Finally she reached the heavily bolted door and unbolted it. She pushed her mightiest to force the heavy door open as fast as she could.

“What is it my child? I’m coming!” She yelled as she forced the door open and ran into the room.

The girl was sitting in her lavish bed sweating all over. She was trembling violently trying to gasp for air.

“My love! What is it? There’s no harm! … Everything’s fine now!” The nanny tried to calm the girl taking her into her arms and pressing her tightly towards herself.

“The people are dying!” she cried and trembled even if the nanny held her tight in her embrace.

“Cool down my love! I’m here! Nothing’s wrong.” the nanny tried to sooth the girl swaying her gently to and fro.

“Everything’s wrong!” the girl protested and jerked herself off from the nanny’s grasp.

“They are killing each other! Something makes them do that!” She screamed in anguish. “Believe me! I saw it!”

“Cool down my child… No one is killing anyone here…” The nanny tried to grasp her again but she ducked away to the other corner of the great bed.

“You don’t know it but I have seen it!” the girl cried escaping from the nanny’s arms that tried to reach her.

“What is it? Who is killing who?” she asked giving up the pursuit.

The little girl halted and went silent. The nanny tried to read her face but it was empty of any feeling. The girl just stared into nowhere.

“What is it my darling?”

She swallowed her tears and straightened her back. Then she looked like concentrating hard on something.

“The men killed an innocent woman in the evening nailing her into a tree because some beasts had killed two of them. And now those beasts killed two again. And there's this woman from whom everything is ripped off so violently. I know they’re going to kill someone for revenge again. And it will not stop until they’re all dead.”

“You’ve had a nightmare my dear Edelfried. In your father’s lands there are no beasts killing people or lynching mobs. There is the court and justice and men at arms to enforce it.” The nanny looked at the girl and shook her head and sighed. She had raised a host of children and this wasn’t the first time someone had nightmares. “Now you get back under your quilt and I’ll change the coals and bring you a mug of hot blackcurrant with honey. You’ll forget that dream when the morning comes.”

The old woman rose up and straightened her nightgown. “Fresh dreams kill the old… That’s what my grandma used to say. And she was a wise woman. A healer she was… mother of nine children and a guardian for a host of grandchildren. Believe me, she knew things better than you or I.”

Edelfried watched the old woman go and then jumped off from the bed. There was a blackbird singing outside. She went to the window and tried to catch it with her eyes. It was still dark but she could identify the shapes of the walls and houses downhill. The silhouette of the mountains was clearly darker than the surrounding countryside. A tiny dark shape of a wheeling swallow caught her eyes and she followed its dashes and dives in the slowly creeping morning.

There must be a way to stop it! There must be a way… I know it. I can stop it…


*~*

“Grandpa is dead! Grandpa is dead!” Legate ran through the empty courthouse still shaking all over. He had been bringing his grandpa his usual morning tea walking through the empty hall when he had found him laying face down on the front door of the courthouse in a pool of blood. Legate ran up the stairs to the wing they slept. “Grandpa is dead!”

Roa came from the bedroom she had slept alone for a first time in months. And this time his husband had not flaked out in the tavern or been on a trip to neighbouring village. Roa was not sure she could manage the pain of her son’s words.

“Ring the bells! And go wake your sister! ” She ran past her son and hurried downstairs.

Roa rushed to her father-in-law and bent down to his torn corpse unable to believe what she saw.


“Kit is not here!” Legate ran down his voice breaking off. “Kit has vanished!”

Roa was not sure she could take it any more. She fought bravely the tears but her hand was shaking when she pointed to the open door. “Go call your uncle… Go call everyone!”

Legate rushed out from the door calling alarm as he went. Only to suddenly fall silent.

Roa noticed the sudden silence. There were no cries neither the sound of a rushing pair of feet anymore to be heard.

Then there was the sound of the steps coming backwards, very slowly.

“Mom? … Mom? She’s out here…” Legate walked the steps up to the doorway and stared emptily to the wall in the back of the hall.

Roa felt she could die. How much must a woman take? The werewolves kill my husband, you lynch my niece and then I lose both my daughter and my father-in-law!

She rose slowly from her father-in-laws torn body to embrace her son... and to stay upright herself as she felt her knees were failing her. The mother and son embraced each other shaking wildly.

“Wh-whh-at is it? Wh-hhat happened to her? Why is she not here?” Roa felt she was going to faint.

Legate felt he should act like the man in the house as he now was the only one.

“Let’s not talk of that mummy? She’s… she’s dead.”


The villagers had heard the bells and Legate’s calls. One by one they gathered in front of the courthouse learning the evil tidings.

Morm had come to see his dead father and had turned his torn body around.

“Oh noooo!” he cried out.

All went silent and every pair of eyes and ears were tuned into his direction.

Brinn had been standing behind morm to see her grandpa and saw the same. “They have pulled his eyes off… what savagery!”

There was a disquieting silence.

“My father was our seer… the one the swallow tried to help us with.” said Lalaith slowly her voice breaking in the end.


*~*

Alive:

+ A Little Green, a fortune-teller - folklorist - herb-grower - unofficial therapist, advisor and midwife, most presumably a witch, the gammer (the eccentric mother of Lommy & Mac)
+ Shastanis Althreduin, astrologer/fortune teller, gaffer (Greenie's husband, father of Lommy & Mac)
+ Isabellkaya, a gammer who loves asparagus and throwing knives (Shasta's sister)

+ Thinlómien, a bird tamer, adult (married to Nilp, Macalaure's sister)
+ Nilpaurion Felagund, a house-bound sandwich-maker, adult (married to Lommy)
+ Eönwë, Rikae's unofficial helper-person, 22 (their son)
+ Kath, tavern owner, 20 (their daughter, Brinn's life partner)
+ Satansaloser 2005, Lommy's assistant, 17 (their daughter)

+ Macalaure, apple farmer, adult (married to Rikae, Lommy's brother)
+ Rikae, a lumberjack, adult (married to Macalaure, Roa's sister)
+ the phantom, sheep herder with Legate, 21 (their adopted son, Di's brother)
+ Diamond 18, dissolute, 11 (phantom's pre-teen littlesister)

+ Cailín, guinea pig breeder, adult (Nilp's sister)
+ Lhunardawen, healer's apprentice, 20 (Cailín's daughter, good twin of Durelin)
+ Durelin, poisoner 20 (Lhuna's evil twin, daughter of Cailín)



+ Roa_Aoife, school teacher, adult (mother of Legate, Brinn and Kit, wife of Nogrod, sister of Rikae)
+ Brinniel, Greenie's apprentice, 21 (Legate's sister and Kitanna's twin sister, Kath's life partner)
+ Legate of Amon Lanc, sheep herder with tp, 19 (brother of Brinn & Kit, Sally's boyfriend, Agan's ex-bf)

+ Lalaith, chocolate maker, adult (sister of Nerwen, mother of Aganzir, Volo's daughter)
+ Aganzir, the little match girl, 15 (Lalaith's daughter, dates McCaber)
+ The Ka, a dog whipper (a fatherless and ageless little child of Lalaith)

+ Mormegil, adult (son of Volo, husband of Celuien, father of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Celuien, a candle maker, adult (wife of morm, mother of Gwath and McCaber)
+ Gwathagor, a highwayman, 20 (McCaber's big brother)
+ McCaber, a henchman, 18 (Gwath's little brother, dates Aganzir)


The dead:
Eomer of the Rohirrim, adult (Cailín's husband, Lhuna's and Dury's father); An innocent beheaded by the werewolves on Night1
Nogrod, the judge, adult (Roa's husband, father of Legate, Brinn and Kit); An innocent torn in two by werewolves on Night1
Nerwen, the healer, adult (sister of Lalaith, Volo's daughter); An innocent nailed to the oak-tree on Day1.
Volo, the guy who knows everything about staying alive, the gaffer (Father of Nogrod, morm, Nerwen and Lalaith); The seer mutilated and eyes pulled off on Night2.
Kitanna, a tavern wench 21 (Legate's sister and Brinn's twin sister); An innocent ripped into pieces and thrown into the well on Night2.


Day2 begins.

Feel free to talk.

[Diamond18]

Naturally, the EW is from Greenie's family thus the wanton killing of everyone from Volo's side of the gene pool. I say we lynch everyone who is a descendant of Greenie and Shasta!

Oh wait... they're my grandparents.

Scrap that. Obviously the EW is from Volo's family and wants to frame the Greenie/Shasta line!

Wow. So after spending three hours reading over the entire 5 page post-a-thon, this is the more brilliant stuff I can come up with. That's a dissolute wax addict for you.

I'll be posting more toDay. You may wish I wasn't, but hey.

Phantom, why didn't you vote yesterDay? You were the last to post before the deadline but never voted. That's just bizarre.

So there were several mini-rows yesterDay. The Roa/tp row, the Legate/Mac row, the Cailin/Nerwen row. As I recall. When reading over the thread I felt the Roa/tp row to be a lot of bangs and whimpers with not a lot of... anything. Seemd like classic Day1 "There's not much to go on" debating about the proper way to play the game. Legate/Mac was entertaining, but nothing overly suspicious pinged me about it.

I found myself coming down on the Cailin side of the Caillie/Nerwen row. Possibly because I like Cailin's list post and found it better reading than the umpteenth "No THIS is how we should all be playing" post. Sure, lists can misdirect, and may not tell you much about the village, but they tell you a lot about the person making the list. Whether they're lying, joking, or killing time, I don't think they're a horrid "waste of time." (Stats, on the other hand, make me snore. Sorry, bro.)

Of course, Nerwen proved innocent, so obviously Cailin is EEVVVIILL. Plus she's tenuously connected to the Greenie/Shasta brood which proves either one of my points completely.

Hey, don't laugh, if I was the EW (and btw, I have loads and loads of time on my hands, I'm eleven after all) I'd play around with the roles, just because all the serious players will be going, "No that's SILLY."

At any rate, I'll try to live up to your assessment of me, Cail, my sort of a distant aunt by marriage. Too many offenses to last past Day4. I loved it. Haha. (I think I've only ever been lynched once though, in all the many games I've played.)

[Diamond18]

Forty minutes past the deadline and I'm the first post? Hnuh?

I'll never beat the 5 page Day 1 stat on my own. I mean I could try but things would get really schizo. I'd have to start creating make believe players, Diamond01, Diamond02, and so on. (The EW is Diamond06, and the GW is Diamond07, btw.)

[THE Ka]

Volo, the guy who knows everything about staying alive, the gaffer (Father of Nogrod, morm, Nerwen and Lalaith); The seer mutilated and eyes pulled off on Night2.



... . http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/d/disbelief.gif

Forty minutes past the deadline and I'm the first post? Hnuh?


No worries, I've been silently reading everything and reverting back to my old observe habit. I think others still have to show up as of yet, or they are catching up as I was.

but they tell you a lot about the person making the list.

They also help to muck out widely held suspicions and give the atmosphere of different players' tensions on matters, or help with predictions on the way the tide will go. After having to read ten posts at a time, I think that in this respect they are useful.

tp not voting is interesting, but if I was runner up to being killed I don't think I would be so eager to do so much either. YesterDay was particularly random as first Days go, but I hope that does give us something to analyze considering how we're short a seer now (psst GW, find it in your heart to make another seer toNight, pretty please? We're 'kind of' dying here). After reflecting on the bandwagons of yesterDay, at least they are pretty defined near the end and should tell something at least.

Okay, that's all for now from me, obviously I have more reading to do. (There Di, someone else said something, but not much. :)).

[the phantom]

Phantom, why didn't you vote yesterDay?
Where in the rules does it say you have to vote?
If someone doesn't post on two Days in a row there will be a modfire removing that player from the game in a shameful manner.
I see a posting requirement, but no voting requirement. ;)

Anyway, last night didn't go too well. But seriously it could've been worse. WWs killing the Seer isn't nearly so bad in this stage of the game.

Day 2s are much better than Day 1s. We actually have kills and such to look back at! :)

Here are some quick thoughts on yesterday-

1) What's with the Lommy-Agan thing? Surely there's something to it?

2) Roa is innocent I believe. At least she was yesterday.

3) I'm a bit suspicious of Shasta.

4) Every time I reread things I completely flip positions on Legate.

5) Green looks pretty good.

6) I think Sally was probably innocent yesterday.

7) I'm not sure what to think of Dur and Ka exactly, but I kind of like them.

8) Some people need to talk more.

That's all I really have time for. I have to leave right away. I'll only be gone for two or three hours though. See ya.

[Brinniel]

My grandpappy and my sister in one night?! :eek: Someone is obviously out to get my family...

First off, bringing down the voting list to Day 2:

-------------------------

mormegil: ++Brinniel (Brinniel 1)
Sally: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 1)
Gwathagor: ++Sally (Brinniel 1, tp 1, Sally 1)
Kitanna: ++morm (Brinniel 1, tp 1, Sally 1, morm 1)
Nerwen: ++Cailin (Brinniel 1, tp 1, Sally 1, morm 1, Cailin 1)
Roa: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 1, Cailin 1)
Celuien: ++Izzy (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 1, Cailin 1, Izzy 1)
Rikae: ++morm (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1)
Izzy: ++Roa (Brinniel 1, tp 2, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1)
Shasta: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 3, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1)
Eonwe: ++the phantom (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1)
Cailin: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 1)
The Ka: ++Celuien (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 1, Celuien 1)
Greenie: ++Gwathagor (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 1, Celuien 1, Gwath 1)
McCaber: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 2, Celuien 1, Gwath 1)
Macalaure: ++Legate (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 2, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1)
Lalaith: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 3, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1)
Durelin: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 4, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1)
Lommy: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 4, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 1)
Diamond: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 1)
Volo: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 2)
Brinniel: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 3)
Legate: ++Aganzir (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 5, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 4)
Aganzir: ++Nerwen (Brinniel 1, tp 4, Sally 1, morm 2, Cailin 1, Izzy 1, Roa 1, Nerwen 6, Celuien 1, Gwath 1, Legate 1, Aganzir 4)

Did not vote: Nilpaurion, Lhuna, Kath, the phantom

--------------------------

Heh, almost half of the village received at least one vote...

As stated yesterDay, I don't like the tp and particularly Nerwen bandwagons. I didn't notice that tp hadn't voted until Di pointed it out. I'm not sure what to think on the fact that he intentionally chose not to...

More thoughts about the voting yesterDay will come in another post..

It's certainly a shame to see Volo die...obviously the gaffer who thought he knew everything about staying alive really didn't as he didn't even make it past Night 2. It doesn't really help us that he was a seer; the only dream he had was last Night and now only the GW will know the result of that.

So why were Volo and Kitanna killed? My first thought is that it was simply because they weren't very suspicious.

Anyways, more thoughts to come later...

[Aganzir]

The only person Volo didn't say he was uncertain of was Legate, who also was his another voting candidate.
He felt systematical, tight and nastier than usually in the beginning, and although Mac overdid his questioning a bit, Legate got unnecessarily glued to the question of tp's cobblerism. Then he changes back to good ol' kind Leggie when he answers me and changes the subject away from tp in the post before. He must have realized that there was something wrong with what he was doing
I guess we have no way to get to know for sure whom he dreamed of, but based on that I'm pretty confident it was Legate. Another option is that he didn't leave any hints, but even though the GW shares the information he had, I can't see any sense in that.

Kitanna looks more like a random kill that leaves few tracks.

**

I had a bad gut feeling (mind you, morm voted for her based on gut feeling and she found it ok) about Brinniel and found a quote of hers suspicious, and then all of a sudden I was the best lynching candidate she had. I'll try to elaborate more on her tomorrow, but there's really something that makes me uneasy.

Something's definitely wrong with Lommy. She looks like she had deliberately decided to suspect me from the very beginning (my first IC post doesn't quite sit right with you, huh?), and after that she keeps increasing her suspicion, but the way she at the same time agrees with me & says it's fine for her if I'm kept alive looks plain sinister. She looks like she were toying with me and I don't like it.
She should just know better.

The way phantom seemed/seems to be dominating the discussion makes me feel uneasy.

Legate & yesterday's voting. If that wasn't suspicious, nothing is.
Tp, as for Agan being the EW... she well enough could. If it were to choose between her and some of the other two named, even she would do... but then... I really don't know. At least at the beginning I thought her innocentish. Lately probably other people's observations, or suspicions of her, influenced me as well in some way. But there are still other options which I had earlier... hm.
"I want to jump the bandwagon as there's even a chance she'd be lynched (and she suspects me) and now I must explain it to everybody so as not to look I was indeed just jumping in the bandwagon!"

**

I'll go to sleep now, back in the morning.

edit: xed with Brinn

[Durelin]

Well, looks like we can narrow down the EW/Wolves to good guessers, eh?

The way phantom seemed/seems to be dominating the discussion makes me feel uneasy.

So stop mentioning ____ and making ____ feel he is at the center of attention.

But...I do agree with him on "what's up with the you and Lommy thing", though I'm not sure what to think. I had suspicion of you yesterDay, but looking back over some Lommy posts, I find it interesting that she does seem to use her knowing you as much to her advantage as possible. But Aganzir's votes for Nerwen wasn't necessary to save herself, and she had stated she did not want to vote for Nerwen. Of course, coming down to the wire, if she was not sure of the count...

Oh, before I forget - Brinn was quite right and I was quite silly yesterDay. When I came back about 40 minutes before the deadline I really...skimmed the posts posted while I was away. I totally missed your stuff about Aganzir. I kept thinking you had only posted twice, as you mentioned in your one post. Of course that was your third post...and I didn't read it all. Oh if Boro were here...

Yeah, I need to go back and read, cause it won't all be re-reading...

[the phantom]

tp not voting is interesting, but if I was runner up to being killed I don't think I would be so eager to do so much either.
Bingo. Since I was at risk, I was holding my vote till the very end.

And then the end arrived, and I was wondering if the late Agan bandwagon would charge all the way to the front to tie with Nerwen and I, and so I was deciding who I should vote for out of those two. Like I said I thought that there had to be something going on with with Lommy and Agan and was thinking that I might want to vote that way just to see if anything turned up. Ner went ahead and I felt slightly safer but still felt like I might have to choose between the two, and next thing you know Nog posted.

I actually had my vote typed out and everything (it was for Nerwen but I had Agan's name ready to paste just in case) and was ready to post it in the final seconds, but when I refreshed my other window I saw that Nog had already posted so I figured I wouldn't bother.

My question about the voting is this- did the WWs or EW even have to bother worrying about anything?

Nerwen was innocent.

I am innocent.

So there was not really a need to mount a late lynch campaign to save anyone. The WWs were free to toss their votes away.

In addition, I doubt the WWs would've even known who to save. I can't see any way the EW has told them about each other.

It is certainly possible that the EW gave them some sort of "safe lynch list" or something, but how would we really pick that out?

The only scenario that I can think of in which there might have been saving going on is if Nerwen was on the safe list and I wasn't, but I don't think that is very likely- unless the EW was wanting to make me a WW later.

Which would be smart of course. *nudge nudge wink wink* Guarantee victory for the Wolves, it would. ;)

Okay, like I said earlier I keep flip-flopping on Legate, and I am continuing to do so. But the fact that he did enough for me to even form an opinion on him is enough for me to want to keep him around for a bit.
The way phantom seemed/seems to be dominating the discussion makes me feel uneasy.
That's a typical Day 1 if I am in the village.

[the phantom]

So stop mentioning ____ and making ____ feel he is at the center of attention.
Ha ha ha! :D

[the phantom]

Okay, I went back and read over some people.

Eonwe is confusing. He comes in and gets onto Roa for criticizing Sally for voting for me and then voting for me herself, and then he votes for me.

Next, I feel pretty good about morm after yesterday.

But I think he was wrong about Brin. Her reactions and such seem pretty good after rereading her posts.