Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Boromir88]

Anyone can feel free to use their filibuster at this time.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm also voting now so we can enter into a lame duck period, just to get under Fea's skin.


Of course I could just hold off on telling you his role until tomorrow, just to get under B88's skin... ;)

[the phantom]

Here is a list. Not a very good one maybe, but still... a list.

Should live forever-
the phantom

Should live almost forever-
Aganzir

Should live a long time-
Boro
Kath

Should die of natural causes-
Brin
Green
Gil
Gwath
Rune
Sally

Should have a tragic accident-
Ilya
KA
Lommy
morm
Nerwen
Nog
Shasta

But naturally after I reread today I will change my opinions. Lots of them, anyway.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

For the sake of narration, somebody wanna tell me how you pronounce Eonwe's name?

[the phantom]

Anyone can feel free to use their filibuster at this time.
Nah. A time will present itself.

Tomorrow I'd like to see Boro and Nog go at it, and one of them lynch the other. That would be fun. We haven't had a full blown loudmouth war yet this game.

I believe that I will start off Day 3 by attacking both of them, and see if I can't get the village to jump on board.

[the phantom]

For the sake of narration, somebody wanna tell me how you pronounce Eonwe's name?
I don't even know what Eonwe's name is.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I don't even know what Eonwe's name is.

By name, I definitely meant 'Eonwe.'

[Boromir88]

Of course I could just hold off on telling you his role until tomorrow, just to get under B88's skin... ;)~Fea
I could cancel my participation in this village for 3 days to tend to a more important board meeting, where we will be passing a very important piece of legislation, even though my presense there would be totally unnecessary. :p

[the phantom]

What I found was- eh'onweh.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I could cancel my participation in this village for 3 days to tend to a more important board meeting, where we will be passing a very important piece of legislation, even though my presense there would be totally unnecessary. :p

I could cancel your participation in this village permanently. I win. :cool:

[Boromir88]

My guess would be Ee-on-hhwip... I mean hhway

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What I found was- eh'onweh.

You should rhyme this with something. Phonetics are totally useless across dialects.

[the phantom]

But you could just call him Steve if you want. Easier to rhyme that way.

[Nerwen]

Aganzir is really bugging me... and I don't think it's just paranoia.

We have the earlier example of her persistant attack on Lommy, followed by a very sudden dropping of suspicion. At the time I thought I'd wait and see, as it could be either the action of a wolf who saw she wasn't getting any takers... or of an innocent who'd taken a shower and realised she been over-the-top.

...And then today we have another Legate 180 (or an approach to one, anyway), with yours truly as the subject.

First (#681) she analyses me and concludes:
I think Nerwen doesn't look very suspicious apart from her reaction to morm, which could be that of an innocent as well. So I'm pretty much at a loss now, because at the same time I know she's capable of all sorts of nasty things and I just wouldn't want to stop suspecting her like this, just to be on the safe side.

Then (#714):
I don't like it how I conclude that every person I've been suspecting is probably innocent.

And I want to go to sleep soonishly and I have no proper idea who to vote.

And then:
#730.
Guilty
Nerwen. Okay, her speculation about Cab's death and reaction to Ilya & Brinn's reactions is suspicious, plus her fierce defense of herself.

Apart from the fact that it wasn't a "fierce" defence– as you may recall, I merely said that I was insulted morm would think I'd use such an amateur tactic if I were a wolf– there is nothing between these two posts. I didn't post and nobody made a case on me. In fact the only thing that happened was that morm voted me.

She goes from seeing me as not very suspicious (but not wanting to dismiss me, based on her knowledge of me, which I think is fair enough) to deciding I'm guilty... based on the same evidence.

Huh?

Now, I don't think I'm being biased... Aganzir is being very erratic, and doesn't seem to feel the need to explain. I don't know what it means, since it seems too clumsy for an Aganwolf... but it's not something I can ignore either.

Thoughts?

EDIT: x'd with a legion.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But you could just call him Steve if you want. Easier to rhyme that way.

I approve. Eonwe will henceforth be named Steve.

[the phantom]

You notice that the pronunciation looks Canadian?

[Boromir88]

I could cancel your participation in this village permanently. I win. :cool:~Fea
Drat, I should have learned my lesson from Mith, to never cross paths with a woman when moddessfire is on the line.

[Boromir88]

There you go Nerwen, putting us back to work. :rolleyes: :p

Anyway, my thoughts, are Agan's harmless. Unless you're a wolf, because she's a pretty intense investigator and interrogator.

Edit: P.S. Oh great, I probably just signed Agan's death warrant now. Sorry my lady.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Drat, I should have learned my lesson from Mith, to never cross paths with a woman when moddessfire is on the line.

I rather think the more valuable lesson for you to learn is to never cross paths with a woman in general and expect to win.

[the phantom]

P.S. Oh great, I probably just signed Agan's death warrant now. Sorry my lady.
If you did, then I'm going to be ticked. Seriously- if Agan's dead tomorrow I will attack you without mercy!

[Boromir88]

I rather think the more valuable lesson for you to learn is to never cross paths with a woman in general and expect to win.
True statement, but can you in some way shape that to be a Princess Bride reference? I don't think so, therefor the more valuable lesson is the one that you can remember. :D

[Nerwen]

I'm not getting any strong wolf-vibes from her either... but I'm thinking I can't trust her judgement in this game now whatever she is.

There. Signature erased.

EDIT: x'd since Boro at #768.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

You think I can't shape a statement any way I want it should the mood strike me? Inconceivable.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shouldn't be immensely difficult to rhyme with "ay-on-way". ;)

[Nerwen]

While I'm at it, Boro, if you keep saying stuff like that I'm afraid I'm going to have to start suspecting you.

EDIT" x'd with Fea and Shasta.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Shouldn't be immensely difficult to rhyme with "ay-on-way". ;)

Psh. Way too late. I already wrote the poem with Steve as its subject. :smokin:

[Boromir88]

tp...what is it that you said about questioning your means but never your motives? You should really read your own book.

[satansaloser2005]

Gah! Yes, I know. I suck.


*waves hands in the air* I'm here! I'm here!



Okay, madcap last couple days. (Sorry about not stopping by to vote for a rep, but by the time I'd gotten back from work and had everything sorted it was deadline or after. For the record, I was going to vote for Agan or....Boro, if my memory serves me properly. Hey, I guess I got represented pretty well after all!:)) Anyway, hopefully my participation will even back out again. And by even out I mean....you know....exist. Bah, I feel like such a slacker. :(


I just got home, so I'm going to plug in my computer and see if I can't get some thoughts posted before the deadline. If I don't make it back, rest assured that I'll have lots to say toMorrow.

~~Sally~~

[Boromir88]

You think I can't shape a statement any way I want it should the mood strike me? Inconceivable.~Fea
I don't believe I've ever understimated your skill.

[the phantom]

I rather think the more valuable lesson for you to learn is to never cross paths with a woman in general and expect to win.
Indeed, it's a very basic principle that all guys need to understand going into a relationship.

See, if you show your lady that she's wrong she becomes angry. And when people in general get angry they lose some of their rational reasoning skills. So, as she loses those skills you'll start scoring more points in the argument. And that will cause her to be even angrier. Eventually she'll be too angry to see the truth no matter how wrong she is, because you can't think straight when you're super upset.

Thus in her mind there is literally no way you can ever win an argument. If she's right then she's right and you lose. If she's wrong then she gets so mad that you can't convince her so you still lose.

Pretty simple really. :D

[satansaloser2005]

Heh. Sorry, this just caught my eye.


Gwath and Eonwe are both under the radar with me. And where's Sally? If any of those three were lynched, I probably wouldn't shed too many tears. (Sorry guys!)


Oi! Of all people, the other theater kid should understand how busy I am a week before show. (No, I'm not in it, but I have been doing some costume work and whatnot) Gosh! *throws a hissy fit and goes back to her trailer*



(And before you ask, yes, I'm kidding. Enough of the Silly/Busy Sally Show. I have more posts to read.)

[Boromir88]

While I'm at it, Boro, if you keep saying stuff like that I'm afraid I'm going to have to start suspecting you.~Nerwen
No need, I'm going to move to strike this entire lame duck period off the record, and therefor it would have never existed.

[the phantom]

tp...what is it that you said about questioning your means but never your motives? You should really read your own book.
Whatever. I know every book relating to WW backward and forward. If you think I'm missing something, I just want you to think I'm missing something.

So, I suggest that you stop giving me reading assignments, or so help me I'll start that Boro-Nog war I threatened and I'll back your opponent.

[satansaloser2005]

Think it this way: you're a wolf and want to bluff by doing something you would never do as a wolf. When someone suspects you of it, is it better for you to say "I would never do so as a wolf" or wait till someone else says "He would never do so as a wolf"? The former is more suspicious.
Now, you're a newbie wolf. You might be suspected if you said "I did it just because I'm new, no-no I didn't have any dark intents," but if you suggested subtly that it might have happened because you're new and don't quite know how to react to different situations, it would be easier for people to believe it since it would feel more like they had come up with it themselves. What struck me as suspicious in Ilya was how she looked like she was consciously and carefully trying to use the less suspicion-raising manner.

Do you get my point?


Agan makes an interesting point here. Ilya seems a bit too smooth for a newbie, I must stay. Now I'm not saying that new players automatically suck, but she's been too smooth (smooth? maybe just well-integrated) for a new player. It worries me a bit. I'll have to take a good look at her at some point, but for now I'm going to just keep an eye on her. (And by at some point, I obviously mean as soon as I get a chance)

[Boromir88]

Whatever. I know every book relating to WW backward and forward.~tp
Haven't you written every book relating to WW?

[satansaloser2005]

Aganzir: Her way of tracking wolves and posting annoys me. Also I have trouble telling apart what is just “normal” Aganzir and what is suspicious, so I would also like her to go simply to make my life easier. Also I don’t get why it is much more suspicious to say you’re a newbie in subtle way, than doing it straight forward. (ok Boromir just explained it, I don’t know what to make of it)


Now I know he doesn't give it as his ONLY reason, but you want to kill her because you don't like the way she catches wolves? (Well, he says tracks, but still. Potato, etc.) This leads me to wonder. Do you not like her around because mehbe she's on the right track with her wolf tracking? Hmmmm....

[satansaloser2005]

My earlier, rather incomplete case can be found here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=573469&postcount=535). I'm not going to discuss things already treated with there unless I have something new to add.

Ilya's been flip-flopping a bit. In 407 she said she will vote for the one she's the most suspicious of, but a little before she had noted she didn't want to vote anyone who already had a vote (including Legate). In 407 she explained her reasons for not wanting to vote those three people, though. The only person she mentioned apart from them was me (and my backing off of Lommy which parroted what a lot of other people had said etc etc), which, given the context, seems to suggest she was considering voting for me.

She admitted her Legate vote was bandwagoning, and said it looks fishy because it's safe, but she also suggested her newbieness might have to do with it. The latter was a remark I didn't particularly like but that's been discussed already. However, I just realised that one reason I didn't like it was that she doesn't play like one might expect a newbie to play but comes up with things herself and suspects people, at least to some extent.
Also, she kind of put the blame of her joining the bandwagon on Boro; "..to do exactly what Boro did to me yesterday: cast a vote with authority, and convince me to jump on the bandwagon."

She didn't know what to make of the Agan/Lommy brawl and feels there's something wrong in there. Also, she was suspicious of me for a reason she didn't know (later told she had found my reasons for voting Brinn for rep weird, especially that "she won't be the centre of attention" part, but they didn't feel as suspicious anymore now that she knew where her suspicions came from).

Ilya planned to vote Rune for rep, but when Lommy received three votes, she said she could vote Boro instead so there would be two people with three votes.

As for her suspicions today, she said that if Eönwë doesn't start posting with more substance she might get suspicious, she had a gut thing against me, Nog made her raise her eyebrows with his contradictory stuff, and she was not exactly suspicious but watchful towards Brinn. She voted the reasonable & reasonably funny Rune for rep.

Ilya is pretty quick to admit it if she has made mistakes (ie suspicious things). That's generally a good thing I guess, but Rune also had a valid point when he said


I can agree with Lommy that Ilya has looked much more innocent today. However I have no idea if that is because her fellows have had a chance to give her advice in the night or if she's just got more used to the game. Her defense and the reasons she gave for the things she did look pretty genuine though, and she kept her cool pretty well even when accused.

I'm not very concerned about her right now. Still going to keep an eye on her, but I don't think I'm going to vote her.

edit: xed with Eönwë and Gwath



Re: Ilya. And again, I'm quoting Agan. Dang it, this is the beginning of a very bad habit. *frustrated face*

Anyway, she has changed in subtle ways from yesterDay. I'm not sure it's pack coaching though. I know last game (and I don't mean this in a bad way) I was afraid to give Gollum playing suggestions for fear that it would make him stick out more, so I just left him to play the way he had been (again, not to say there was anything wrong with that, but....anyway, I digress). It could have just been her getting used to playing here. But either way, yes, she's done some things differently and though she has some good points I still feel uneasy about her.


EDIT: P.S. I have no idea what's going on votewise, by the way. I was going to look, but I knew by the time I'd done that the day would be over and I'd have said nothing. If anyone could do a vote tally that'd be amazing. (Not that it matters much now anyway, but I don't really want to talk a whole lot about someone and then be like "oh, they're lynched, there was time wasted"

EDIT #2: Watching Fantasia while posting this. LOVE THAT MOVIE! :)

[the phantom]

I just realized that I'm approaching post #3000. I should've filibustered today so I could be sure to reach that historic number during this village.

Boro- yeah, pretty much.

[satansaloser2005]

Crap. I'm totally not bolding my posts. I swear, I'll go back in a bit and do them, I'm just working with some bad internets at the moment so be patient.


Alternatively, I love the fact that the moddesses are just popping in and offering commentary of sorts at random points in the game. By commentary I mean snarky comments, but still. It's amusing. :)



ETA: x'd with Phantom. And I thought of fillibustering just to be a nuisance, but since I didn't know how many votes were in and such I decided it wouldn't be fair.

[the phantom]

You still coming to Omaha tomorrow, Sally?

[Boromir88]

I'm almost up to 4,000 hmmm that gives me an idea

Edit: Oh crap I really am delusional - maybe I can still reach it though, that'd be impressive.

[satansaloser2005]

I saw a vote for Eon at some point when scrolling back up to where I was reading, and although I don't know how he stands lynchwise I'd just like to say that I generally suspect him. Lots of little things, but mostly he just rubs me the wrong way. (In a furry sense, not to say that I don't like him.)


You still coming to Omaha tomorrow, Sally?

Of course! :)




And I think I'm out of time. Good Night all.



EDIT: x'd with silly Boro. Now off to bold my other posts. No other changes to them though, I promise.

[Nerwen]

Re: Ilya. And again, I'm quoting Agan. Dang it, this is the beginning of a very bad habit. *frustrated face*

Anyway, she has changed in subtle ways from yesterDay. I'm not sure it's pack coaching though. I know last game (and I don't mean this in a bad way) I was afraid to give Gollum playing suggestions for fear that it would make him stick out more, so I just left him to play the way he had been (again, not to say there was anything wrong with that, but....anyway, I digress). It could have just been her getting used to playing here. But either way, yes, she's done some things differently and though she has some good points I still feel uneasy about her.

I don't know what to make of her either. As you and Agan point out, the change in her posting could be read both ways.

As for what's happening– Eönwë has been lynched. We are waiting for Fea to let us know what he was. (There seems to be a consensus that pleading with her is useless.)

[satansaloser2005]

I don't know what to make of her either. As you and Agan point out, the change in her posting could be read both ways.

As for what's happening– Eönwë has been lynched. We are waiting for Fea to let us know what he was. (There seems to be a consensus that pleading with her is useless.)

Ah. Thanks for the update, dear. I assumed as much, but wasn't sure, so I didn't want to waste TOO much time talking about him.


I'm going to shut up now. :D

[the phantom]

We now await the narrative.

*drum roll*

And Eonwe is....

.... a WerePenguin???

[Brinniel]

I should've filibustered today so I could be sure to reach that historic number during this village.
Because 165 posts on this thread isn't enough for you? :p

As for what's happening– Eönwë has been lynched.
Yes, poor Eonwe...not only does he get to die, but he'll be forever immortalised as Steve. :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

We now await the narrative.

*drum roll*

And Eonwe is....

.... a WerePenguin???



You just made me squeal like a small girl. Hehe!


Oh, and I'm at the Sorcerer's Apprentice scene in Fantasia. Yay!


EDIT: x'd with Brinn. Yeah, I need to look into the Steve thing. I think I'll get quite a kick out of it.

[Boromir88]

Fea, I've been beaten, you win. I will never test you again. :D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Eonwe is henceforth known as Steve.
His head from his body, the villagers did cleave.
His identity as a wolf the good guys did believe
But when Steve died, they learned that all they did achieve
Was making their jobs harder between now and the coming eve.

---

Dead:

Fea
Mith
Rikae
Diamond18 (ordo)
Legate (ordo)
McCaber (ordo)
Eönwë/Steve (ordo)

Alive:

Aganzir
Boromir88
Brinniel
Gil-Galad
Greenie
Gwathagor
Ilya
Lommy
Kath
mormegil
Nerwen
Nogrod
Rune
Sally
Shasta
The Ka
the phantom

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Please, they said, kill Aganzir
Or if it’s easier
Just kill the seer.
The choice, of course, for the Moddess was clear:
“Off with her head!” quoth Fea with cheer.
The seer still lives, the wolves cringe in fear,
And I bid you to play, as the Day is now here.

---



Dead:

Fea
Mith
Rikae
Diamond18 (ordo)
Legate (ordo)
McCaber (ordo)
Eönwë/Steve (ordo)
Aganzir (ordo)


Alive:

Boromir88
Brinniel
Gil-Galad
Greenie
Gwathagor
Ilya
Lommy
Kath
mormegil
Nerwen
Nogrod
Rune
Sally
Shasta
The Ka
the phantom

--

Note: I'm starting the Day in real time because I can and because I'm tired. The wolves should feel free to continue PMing until their actual deadline. I dislike the notion of my impatience disrupting their mod-given rights to plot a full 24 hours.

[Boromir88]

Oh just my luck, I hope the wolves really don't think the intelligent villagers will fall for such an obvious trick?

Well, after virtually 4 days of analyzing the only thing that I find suspicious is our monopoly of radiant moderators. So, that means I'm scrapping everything and starting anew.

[the phantom]

Ah, so it turned out Eonwe did have a special role! He was the village Steve. But then he was dropping Steve hints all over the place, so we should've guessed.

So, Agan died. I'm sad, because I trusted her. Plus she's all smart and pretty and stuff.

But on the bright side I wasn't killed. So guess what? You all get one more day of Phantom!

And I do mean one more day. I don't see any way I survive another Night phase. For surely the WWs have realized by now that I am, indeed, the Dread Pirate Roberts.

[Boromir88]

And I do mean one more day. I don't see any way I survive another Night phase. For surely the WWs have realized by now that I am, indeed, the Dread Pirate Roberts.~the phantom
Nice Princess Bride reference...apparently all I have to do is brag about how deadly you are to wolves and they'll kill you.

[the phantom]

Oh just my luck, I hope the wolves really don't think the intelligent villagers will fall for such an obvious trick?
Was there a trick involved?

Do explain. I love tricks.

Well, no... I love Trix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trix_(cereal)). But I do at least like tricks.

[Boromir88]

Was there a trick involved?~the phantom
Their trick to get me lynched, I want to see how they plan to work this one out.

[the phantom]

all I have to do is brag about how deadly you are to wolves and they'll kill you.
Question- what if you were to brag how dangerous their fellow Wolves were to their own survival? Would they turn on each other.

And by "turn on" each other, I mean "betray". I don't mean.... never mind.

[Nerwen]

Well, that was predictable.

[Boromir88]

Question- what if you were to brag how dangerous their fellow Wolves were to their own survival? Would they turn on each other.~tp
Well if you're a wolf and would like to betray some of you buddies my ears are listening...or well my eyes are - never mind.

[Ilya]

I love Trix
As long as you're not a rabbit, Phantom. Then you'd just be silly.

Man, my apologies to Agan. Totally thought she was of the lupine persuasion. All those nerve endings in my gut (did you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head?) must be having indigestion. This blows everything I had out of the water. Not that I had much, but, you know, stupid wolves not being who I think they are. Why was it predictable, Nerwen?

[the phantom]

Their trick to get me lynched, I want to see how they plan to work this one out.
How selfish of you. Assuming that the entire kill was based on lynching you! How arrogant. How self centered!

The plan was obviously to set up me to be lynched.

[Boromir88]

Feeling good about that one are you Nerwen? Why didn't you go for morm, he's been coming after you.

[the phantom]

Well, that was predictable.
Hey, now, some of us are just now finding out the kill, and are still in shock. Not all of us knew several hours ago like you did, so just keep your snide comments to yourself.

[the phantom]

Well if you're a wolf and would like to betray some of you buddies...
Okay, okay- I'll come clean.

Shasta's the mastermind. He made us do it! We didn't want to hurt anyone, but he called us "Terrible excuses for Were-creatures" and told us he'd "eat our faces off" if we didn't kill someone.

[Boromir88]

Shasta's the mastermind. He made us do it! We didn't want to hurt anyone, but he called us "Terrible excuses for Were-creatures" and told us he'd "eat our faces off" if we didn't kill someone.~tp
If I vote for you as a rep, does that mean I have your sworn word that you will lynch Shasta?

[the phantom]

Man, my apologies to Agan. Totally thought she was of the lupine persuasion....This blows everything I had out of the water. Not that I had much, but, you know, stupid wolves not being who I think they are.
Translation: I was so wrong there's no way I could possibly be a Wolf.

Ha ha, Ilya, I know better. You're a Wolf aren't you?!

Okay, good to know, because we're looking for Werewolves, not Wolves. Wolves are fine with us.

[Ilya]

Hey, now, some of us are just now finding out the kill, and are still in shock. Not all of us knew several hours ago like you did, so just keep your snide comments to yourself.
No need to take that tone, tp. I could say it's arrogant of you and Boro to assume the kill was about getting one of you lynched. I don't get how that would work. Both of y'all trusted Agan. I don't know what case a wolf could reasonably stir up. It'd be much easier to drive me to the gallows, since I've continually said I suspected Agan. That said, Nerwen, you're being odd and it's weirding me out.

[the phantom]

If I vote for you as a rep, does that mean I have your sworn word that you will lynch Shasta?
I thought that was a given. I did call him the Werewolf mastermind, didn't I?

Ilya: I was just messing around.

PS Will probably continue to do so.

[Ilya]

Wolves are fine with us.

Even T-Wolves? Because if there are any Nuggets around here, I...I dunno what I'll do, actually, I'm a Hornets fan.

Edit: Man, nobody around here likes admissions, do they? TP, keep letting me know, because until you do I will totally believe you are serious.

[Boromir88]

I don't know what case a wolf could reasonably stir up.~Ilya
After defending her I said I probably just signed her death warrant...definitely makes it look like I knew too much.

[the phantom]

After defending her I said I probably just signed her death warrant...definitely makes it look like I knew too much.
Now, am I correct in assuming you said all of that about Agan because you were in fact setting her up to be killed during the Night?

Because that's sort of why I declared her innocent and said what I did about her. I thought for sure she was not a WW, and not the Seer, but an Ordo that was likely to be a lynching distraction to other Ordos, and therefore thought it best that she die during the Night. So I did what I could to make her look like an attractive target.

Not that she needs help looking attractive.

[Boromir88]

Nice job, tp, I should have known you would have caught on. I thought you were going to start a Nog/Boro war and get me lynched. Well, maybe I'm speaking too soon.

[Nerwen]

Okay, everyone, back to work.

No need to take that tone, tp. I could say it's arrogant of you and Boro to assume the kill was about getting one of you lynched. I don't get how that would work. Both of y'all trusted Agan. I don't know what case a wolf could reasonably stir up.

The case that Boro regarded Aganzir as a formidable opponent of the wolves. (Or, alternatively, that all this talk of framing is a complicated double-bluff on a Borowolf's part.)

It'd be much easier to drive me to the gallows, since I've continually said I suspected Agan.

Why would that "drive you to the gallows"? It's not as if you actively tried to get her lynched and failed. More to the point is the fact that she did make a case against you, though she found it inconclusive.

That said, Nerwen, you're being odd and it's weirding me out.

Why? Don't get it.

EDIT: x'd since Ilya at #816.

[Ilya]

Because that's sort of why I declared her innocent and said what I did about her. I thought for sure she was not a WW, and not the Seer, but an Ordo that was likely to be a lynching distraction to other Ordos, and therefore thought it best that she die during the Night. So I did what I could to make her look like an attractive target.
Woah. You guys are good.

Edit: Nerwen, just coming in here and saying "That was predictable" and then leaving without saying why. I couldn't guess why it had been Agan, so it just seemed weird, like when Di came in, said one thing, and then left.

[the phantom]

Even T-Wolves?
What, there's still a team there? I thought they disbanded when KG left.

[Boromir88]

The case that Boro regarded Aganzir as a formidable opponent of the wolves. (Or, alternatively, that all this talk of framing is a complicated double-bluff on a Borowolf's part.)~Nerwen
I do have various clauses in my contract, I was not allowed to enter this village unless I do out of the part insane, never before seen, tactics to please the modgoddesses...hence why I said they are the only entities I find to be suspicious.

But, yes I'll get back to work...

[Ilya]

I thought they disbanded when KG left.
If only, if only.

I was not allowed to enter this village unless I do out of the part insane, never before seen, tactics to please the modgoddesses
Wherein you do a triplebluff where we all expect that you know that we know that you knew Agan was a formidible anti-wolf force, so you know you that someone would call you on it so you know to say that that's obviously what the wolves know, even though you know that's what we know.

Honestly, this is what y'all sound like sometimes. :)

[Nerwen]

Woah. You guys are good.

Edit: Nerwen, just coming in here and saying "That was predictable" and then leaving without saying why. I couldn't guess why it had been Agan, so it just seemed weird, like when Di came in, said one thing, and then left.

Simple. Agan's death both eliminates a strong player and potentially frames multiple people.

Boro and phantom... yes, I guessed what you were up to, though I was a bit slow on the uptake.

Now I have to decide whether you two are on the level, or whether it's all an elaborate plot. *gives them long, hard stare*

EDIT: x'd since phantom.

[the phantom]

Nice job, tp, I should have known you would have caught on.
Indeed. That's why I said this yesterday-
If you did, then I'm going to be ticked. Seriously- if Agan's dead tomorrow I will attack you without mercy!
I wanted to set up the idea that I'd come after you if she died, in hopes that it would make the WWs even more likely to kill her.

And then you said this-
tp...what is it that you said about questioning your means but never your motives? You should really read your own book.
To which I replied-
Whatever. I know every book relating to WW backward and forward. If you think I'm missing something, I just want you to think I'm missing something.
Which I was hoping would let you know that I knew exactly what you were up to and that I was playing along in my own way.

So yeah... I pretty much trust you at this point.

1) The McCaber kill doesn't match you.

2) You tried to do the I'm-the-Seer ploy, just like me.

3) You did the set-up-kill ploy, just like me.

4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.

Well, that's where I stand currently. And if we can manage to not lynch the Seer, and force the WWs to use their kills on the two of us the next two nights, then the village will be in a beautiful position when we leave it.

Just like old times, laddie. Cheers.

[Nerwen]

Wherein you do a triplebluff where we all expect that you know that we know that you knew Agan was a formidible anti-wolf force, so you know you that someone would call you on it so you know to say that that's obviously what the wolves know, even though you know that's what we know.

Honestly, this is what y'all sound like sometimes.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Werewolf, m'dear.

EDIT: x'd with phantom; capitalisation.

[the phantom]

Oh, and fyi, I met Sally in person a few hours ago.

She ordered her hamburger cooked extremely rare, and when I told a joke she howled with laughter.

Beware!

[Ilya]

Sounds like she put you in a bit of a furry situation, phantom.

Why yes, I have a paper to write. Why do you ask?

[the phantom]

I'd love to read through Ganzy's posts and such, but it will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon. Now I must sleep.

[mormegil]

Okay, I'm not quite caught up, I just got home not too long ago. I'll tell you though this chattiness between Boro/phantom and others is bothering me a bit. It makes me wonder what they are up too. It just seems odd and it's annoying because it really clutters up the thread and the more important issues. I am going to bed and hopefully will have some time tomorrow to catch up...it depends on how busy work is.

[satansaloser2005]

My first attempt at a proper multi-quote, so if I don't reply to all the bits my apologies. I'll put them in another post as I notice my oversight. heh.


Ah, so it turned out Eonwe did have a special role! He was the village Steve. But then he was dropping Steve hints all over the place, so we should've guessed.

Hee hee! Village Steve, poor guy. You sons of a mothers killed the poor kid before I could make the obligatory Blue's Clues jokes. How dare you!

But on the bright side I wasn't killed. So guess what? You all get one more day of Phantom!

Could I request modfire?

I don't see any way I survive another Night phase. For surely the WWs have realized by now that I am, indeed, the Dread Pirate Roberts.

You are not the real Dread Pirate Roberts. The real Roberts has been retired for fifteen years, and living like a king in Patagonia.

This is enough proof for me. Phantom is TOTALLY a wolf. :Merisu:

Well, that was predictable.

Really? Well, if it was predictable, I say you didn't predict it at all! This was all a setup! Conspiracy! Conspiracy! [/crazy flailing]

Anyway, yes Agan's death wasn't that much of a surprise, but I didn't particularly think she was seer so I almost expected the wolves to gamble after that quarry rather than our little finished -erm, Finnish- friend.

As long as you're not a rabbit, Phantom. Then you'd just be silly.

Man, my apologies to Agan. Totally thought she was of the lupine persuasion. All those nerve endings in my gut (did you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head?) must be having indigestion. This blows everything I had out of the water. Not that I had much, but, you know, stupid wolves not being who I think they are. Why was it predictable, Nerwen?

It's okay, love. You're new (at least to playing with this fine group) so don't feel bad about being off about things. And just because you were wrong about Agan doesn't mean you weren't right in other areas. You're doing great, Ilya. No worries.

How selfish of you. Assuming that the entire kill was based on lynching you! How arrogant. How self centered!

The plan was obviously to set up me to be lynched.

Obviously....*more eyerolling*

Hey, now, some of us are just now finding out the kill, and are still in shock. Not all of us knew several hours ago like you did, so just keep your snide comments to yourself.

Heh. Actually that's along the lines of what I was thinking. Minus the "snide comments" line, but hey. Not all of us can be that rude....erm, special.

No need to take that tone, tp. I could say it's arrogant of you and Boro to assume the kill was about getting one of you lynched. I don't get how that would work. Both of y'all trusted Agan. I don't know what case a wolf could reasonably stir up. It'd be much easier to drive me to the gallows, since I've continually said I suspected Agan. That said, Nerwen, you're being odd and it's weirding me out.

Chillax, Ilya. Like the rest of the players, you just have to get used to our ever-irritating Phantom over here. He's kidding a good 3/4 of the time, and even when he's not he's completely clueless anyway. :p

If only, if only.


Wherein you do a triplebluff where we all expect that you know that we know that you knew Agan was a formidible anti-wolf force, so you know you that someone would call you on it so you know to say that that's obviously what the wolves know, even though you know that's what we know.

Honestly, this is what y'all sound like sometimes.

Heh. Yeah, I have the same feeling occasionally. By the way, that 'theory' of yours was hilarious.

Simple. Agan's death both eliminates a strong player and potentially frames multiple people.

Thanks for explaining your kill to us, Nerwen. I figured it was just because so many people (okay, me and the Hardy Boys over there *points to Boro and Phantom, who are lining up little toy soldiers around a Barbie Dream House*) thought she was innocent.

Oh, and fyi, I met Sally in person a few hours ago.

She ordered her hamburger cooked extremely rare, and when I told a joke she howled with laughter.

Beware!

Oi! You best beware, 'little boy', or that post will come back to bite you!:rolleyes:

Sounds like she put you in a bit of a furry situation, phantom.

Why yes, I have a paper to write. Why do you ask?

Tehe. I love humor. *giggles, then posts this and goes to catch up again*


EDIT: x'd since the Ilya post I quoted at the end of mine.

[satansaloser2005]

And of course now the banter slows down. Blast.

Quick list, perhaps? (Not going to include everyone, just the people I have specific feelings on. Aka whoever pops into my head)


Innocent, maybe a rep vote toDay:
Boro
Shasta


Innocent, but (at least at the moment) not going to get my rep vote toDay:
Phantom (just to spite. heh.)
Lommie


Leaning guilty, would vote for them if I was a rep toDay:
Ilya
Nerwen (shaky on this one)


And you called me a submarine? (Aka I'm surprised they're still alive/playing)
Gwath
Rune
Ka
Kath
Gil


Yes, I know, I left some people out. But again, I just wrote down who came to my head and stuck them in the appropriate category. Don't worry, I didn't forget about the rest of you. (And in regards to my last category, is Gil even playing anymore?)


Off to bed. Good night, dearies!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So now I am a submarine!? In that case. . .can I be yellow?

Anyways I don't really have time for this, classes start in 20 min. and I am not even proper dressed yet. I don't know why, but apparently I am incabable of picking up on seer hints and such, so Aganzir's death came as suprise to me. A welcomed suprise that is, with her gone I have more time for analyzing. . . .really, she took up alot of my time. Either I was annoyed with her style or I just sat around trying to figure out if I really suspected her or it was just because I found her annoying.

[Nerwen]

Thanks for explaining your kill to us, Nerwen. I figured it was just because so many people (okay, me and the Hardy Boys over there *points to Boro and Phantom, who are lining up little toy soldiers around a Barbie Dream House*) thought she was innocent.

So that's why you did it, wolfisaloser2005? *slaps forehead* Trust me to get over-complicated.

[satansaloser2005]

So now I am a submarine!? In that case. . .can I be yellow?

Anyways I don't really have time for this, classes start in 20 min. and I am not even proper dressed yet. I don't know why, but apparently I am incabable of picking up on seer hints and such, so Aganzir's death came as suprise to me. A welcomed suprise that is, with her gone I have more time for analyzing. . . .really, she took up alot of my time. Either I was annoyed with her style or I just sat around trying to figure out if I really suspected her or it was just because I found her annoying.



Not necessarily, sweetie. I'm just (quite frankly) surprised you're still alive. Gwath too. The others are the real submarines, I just grouped you all together. Sorry; should have explained that.

And yes, you can be yellow. ;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Because that's sort of why I declared her innocent and said what I did about her. I thought for sure she was not a WW, and not the Seer, but an Ordo that was likely to be a lynching distraction to other Ordos, and therefore thought it best that she die during the Night. So I did what I could to make her look like an attractive target.

That does it. Since, as far as I know, this game isn't innocent vs. innocent, there's no way you can be innocent. I don't believe this.

[Brinniel]

I've decided to attempt a monstrous task and analyse Aganzir's death:

Day 1

Aganzir's comments on players:

++Brinniel for rep

Because I agree with her that the less reps there are, the more room for errors, and because she's a player who is generally trustworthy although I always find her so suspicious, and because she probably won't be the centre of attention.

I don't like it how Lommy seems to exaggerate things that seem rather small to me.

Lommy. I know I tend to suspect her, especially on the first days. And to me she almost always seems overreactive and suspicious. But it happening always is not an excuse for me to put her in the Neither cathegory so she's happily here again.

Shasta. Don't really understand where that phantom-Boro-Legate triangle came from. It reminds me a bit of Nerwolf's "their interaction makes me think there might be a wolf involved" in some game ages ago.

phantom. He doesn't give any bad vibes although I am perfectly aware that he could appear innocent even if a wolf. For the sake of my sanity I'm not going to concentrate on him for now, I am sure others will do it more than enough anyway.

Brinn. I agree with her that there shouldn't be very few reps. I'm feeling pretty good about her now that I saw her response to my question why she voted me.

Boro amuses me a lot. He looks innocent and I find myself agreeing with him on several things, but it was the same last time I played with him, and he was a wolf. I'm wary of him based on those past experiences, but I find him more innocent than not for the time being.

Nog. I won't concentrate on him now, either. Although he has posted a lot, I have hard time trying to get a read on him.

Greenie. It's always difficult for me to form an opinion on her. Somehow I'm a bit uneasy as to why she followed me so quickly on voting Brinn for a rep. Not that it was necessarily suspicious, it just seemed too easy.

Nerwen. If it was anyone but Nerwen, I could say I was a bit more inclined to consider her innocent.

The result is that I suspect Lommy and it annoys me because I feel I suspect her just because of the way she is. I also find myself unable to compare this Lommy to any Lommy I know from the previous games. However I wouldn't probably suspect her half as much if not for those carefully self-consciously careless trying-to-say-nothing-or-at-least-sound-normal answers. They vaguely remind me of the pathetic Dueling Wizards wolf me who was trying to avoid suspicion and accusations when they kept piling on me.

I don't know what to do with Lommy.


I didn't find the Gil-Shasta quarrel suspicious. I think that's the way Shasta usually is, which doesn't indicate anything, while Gil looked pretty innocentish.

++Lynch Legate

Because I couldn't decide between him and Eönwë and his way of posting annoys me more. This means that Eönwë has just been saved from receiving two votes and he could thank me by posting a detailed list of his suspicions tomorrow.

What players commented about Aganzir:

Agan - Looks more innocent than not, even if there was not much in her two posts. She's one I wouldn't like to see go this early anyway as I know she can be an asset to the village when having more time and losing one of those on Day1 is always sad.

Though I could also consider Aganzir who also makes wise choices, at least when she's innocent. I usually can get a good read off of her though this time not so much since she's only posted twice (what's up with that?). But voting her as rep would be one way to get a better read of her.


I should probably vote now, just on the off chance that rehearsal runs long. So without further ado...

++ Aganzir for Representative

Agan: always a wolf. Always.

My original rep choice was going to be Noggie, followed by Phantom, Agan, and Legate in no particular order.

Agan seems pretty genuine in her first post. I would like to go with her as my rep, but have some questions as far as her involvement in the next 24-hour period. Hmm...doubt she'll be back before this 1st period ends.

++Aganzir for rep

Because unlike Shasta, she has one vote and I continue to think we'd be better off with more reps than less.

Then, another thoght... voting someone as a rep is surely a great way of buddying up fellow villagers. That's why the Agan-Brinn and Legate-phantom "alliances" make me wonder... I mean, of course it's just natural too to reward trust with trust and one is subconsciously inclined to trust someone that trusts them and blah blah blah, but such vote exchanges are curious. I'm not sure what to think about them.

Aganzir - pretty silent, but RL hurries are RL hurries. She seemed to be rather tense, but she herself said she was not having a good day... so I won't judge anything either way yet. I'm looking forward to see what she's going to do as a rep...


Aganzir for Brinniel. I'd agree with her that Brinn seems sensible, but what does she mean by saying she's "usually trustworthy"?

Agan is calling on her true form, that's good to see, but I will go back and look at this Lommy-Agan back-and-forth, or whatever you want to call it.

Agan - Her case on Lommy seems somewhat fabricatied. Though I agree with her that Lommy was exaggerating when talking about our trust in Brinn, I'm not convinced that it's a good reason for suspicion. Neither do I see anything suspicious in Lommy's filibuster post. Her first post toDay looked innocentish, but the whole Lommy-thing makes me wonder.

Honestly, Aganzir's suspicions strike me as rather forced. I think she's merely trying to grasp any kind of behaviour she can call suspicious and make a horrible mess out of it. And she claims I'm exaggerating. How rude. Simply put, I don't think her behaviour looks like hunting wolves, it looks like hunting supicious behaviour. I cannot phrase it so that it makes any more sense, but I hope at least someone can understand that.


Aganzir - No alarms, I'm glad to see she's here today.

The row between Aganzir and Lommy. Argumentwise I'd say Agan looks the more innocent one, feelingwise I think Lommy looks the more innocent (she felt genuinely frustrated - although a wolf might feel the frustration as well to be sure). So I just can't avoid the idea that it's two innocents tearing each other apart.

Aganzir... she's either playing well as a WW or she's innocent. So I'd like to give her a pass for today.

Aganzir - argues innocentishly

Agan, you made a case against Lommy. Have the spine to admit it. You listed Lommy as guilty and have gone after her, that's a case. Don't try to play it off like you really didn't mean anything by quoting Lommy repeatedly, post after post, and play it off like Lommy is being over-defensive.

And now you're backing off, after a couple people say Lommy is looking genuinely frustrated (i.e. makes her look innocent)? Trying to seperate yourself from someone you wanted to get lynched?


You are right that Aganzir posted plenty, infact she posted so much that it could seem like unauthorized filibustering.

Aganzir: Nothing about her rings any alarms. Is it just me or does seem she and Lommy always fight in WW games together? Anyway, whatever's between them, I think it's ordo-on-ordo.


Day 2

Aganzir's comments about players:

In my opinion Lommy's frustration looked more innocent than wolfish. Maybe I underestimate her but I believe she would have got rather jumpier if she's a wolf.


Of these Ilya's reaction seems the most suspicious to me.

If Lommy's a wolf, I could see Boro's reaction as wolfish as well since he attacked me for attacking Lommy. On the other hand it's also possible that he just wanted to try me so as to see if I broke under the pressure. But I have a bit hard time trying to see his reaction as honest - it looked like he was up to something.

My suspicion list is now as follows (in no particular order):
Ilya
Eönwë
Greenie
Lommy (not that I'm actively suspecting her, I just want to keep an eye on her)
Nog (keeping an eye on him until I have time to go through his posts)
Nerwen (I agree with morm's latest about her - planning to go through her posts when I have time anyway)

++Boro for rep

I really have no time to think about it more now and I trust him.

I can agree with Lommy that Ilya has looked much more innocent today. However I have no idea if that is because her fellows have had a chance to give her advice in the night or if she's just got more used to the game. Her defense and the reasons she gave for the things she did look pretty genuine though, and she kept her cool pretty well even when accused.

I think Nerwen doesn't look very suspicious apart from her reaction to morm, which could be that of an innocent as well. So I'm pretty much at a loss now, because at the same time I know she's capable of all sorts of nasty things and I just wouldn't want to stop suspecting her like this, just to be on the safe side.

I didn't really care if Brinn is innocent or not, although I do feel quite good about her right now. And if she's a wolf, her behaviour and interaction with others will hopefully reveal something after her death, so it doesn't even matter that much if a wolf got to be a rep on day 1.

I am feeling better also about Eönwë now, and there's yet another person I'm unlikely to vote today. He's a bit weird at times, but mostly he comes across as pretty genuine.


Guilty
Nerwen. Okay, her speculation about Cab's death and reaction to Ilya & Brinn's reactions is suspicious, plus her fierce defense of herself.
Nog. Still want to read his posts at some point.

Innocent
Boro. I am worried about my trust in him because he has completely fooled me before but I agree with him quite a lot, so he's here for now.
Brinn
Gil
Lommy
Kath
Rune
Shasta
phantom

Neither
Eönwë. Could go either way. Now it's rather indecisiveness on my part than lack of information.
Greenie. I'm planning to review her posts as well at some point.
Gwath
Ilya. I'm really undecided about her right now.
morm. He looks quite innocent. When I was reading through day 1 during the night after it, an inexplicable thought "morm's a wolf" just suddenly occurred to me. I agree with him on a lot things he says. I'm worried I seem to trust him so much. So frankly, I have no idea.
sally
Ka, another one I should review.

++ lynch Nerwen


Players' comments on Aganzir:

As for my possible reps today those who I trust and have shown enough dedication are:
Agan
Boro
Brinn
Nog

Aganzir- I thought her Rep vote was straightforward. Her accusations have good reasoning, and her attack on Lommy was understandable (in my reread, early Lommy looked guilty to me too). And then Agan backed off her (exactly the way I found Lommy less guilty later).

And good to see Agan. Speak your mind, dearie, for today I trust you.

Aganzir - her case against me was weak and I dislike her flip-flopping on Legate. However, now that I'm not annoyed anymore, my gut-feeling of her would be rather innocent.

Aganzir - She no longer gives me innocent vibes so she belongs in this category. I don't know why, maybe it's because she seems more tense and more stressed than usual.

I will continue to be around on and off for the rest of the day (RL), I should be around most of tomorrow (RL) but perhaps a bit more intermitent. Anyway I am going to vote for Aganzir as my Rep because a lot of her suspects are those who I suspect, namely Nerwen being the top. I would like my rep to vote the way I feel and since I have a greater degree of trust in Agan than many others it's a satisfactory match for my vote.

++Aganzir for Rep

Aganzir: Tells Little Green to“Elaborate on more tense and more stressed than usual.” I actually think this is an unfair question, LG was not making a massive case against Aganzir. . . She was giving an overview about how she felt about the different people and in such a case you judge also on the feel that you get from the post, something that is often in describable. Now if LG had attacked Aganzir and was confident that she was a wolf, then she would have to elaborate.
Anyways this seems to be Aganzir’s style and I must say it annoys me a great deal.

Aganzir - I still have this gut thing against Agan, although at the time I think her posts were running together with Legate in my head, and the thing with Lommy seems more harmless than not. However, I do not like the implication she made about a rep not voting and irresponsibility today (521). These aren't sacred offices or anything but reps do have an obligation. As to throwaway votes, it's not a bad way for a shy wolf to act - everything's all tied up, so I'm just gonna go Nader. Or, you know, the phantom and his brand of jokery. I guess, in short, voting is important, and anyone who says otherwise bothers me.

++Aganzir for rep


I have less of an idea about where she stands, so I'd feel safer going with Agan (as far as her lynching someone I'd like lynched), but if you're leaning towards making Agan a Rep already yourself then I'd like to give Kath a shot and see what she does. At the least I do feel that she is innocent.

Aganzir: Her way of tracking wolves and posting annoys me. Also I have trouble telling apart what is just “normal” Aganzir and what is suspicious, so I would also like her to go simply to make my life easier. Also I don’t get why it is much more suspicious to say you’re a newbie in subtle way, than doing it straight forward. (ok Boromir just explained it, I don’t know what to make of it)

Agan - she is very, very determined this game. Thing is I do play with Agan a fair amount and yet she always seems slightly separate somehow. I don't have any understanding of her usual style of play. Is this ... well, almost persecution of a person like with Lommy normal with her?


Lommy and Aganzir also feel good.


Aganzir is as vibrant as ever.

Now, I don't think I'm being biased... Aganzir is being very erratic, and doesn't seem to feel the need to explain. I don't know what it means, since it seems too clumsy for an Aganwolf... but it's not something I can ignore either.


Anyway, my thoughts, are Agan's harmless. Unless you're a wolf, because she's a pretty intense investigator and interrogator.

Edit: P.S. Oh great, I probably just signed Agan's death warrant now. Sorry my lady.

---------------------------

Ouch. All those quotes can hurt your head after awhile.

Thoughts:

It seems yesterDay Aganzir was suspected by half and considered innocent by another half, and several others placed her somewhere in between. She's obviously not a no-trace kill since she left plenty of posts with substance.

I think suspected seerism is likely. Perhaps the wolves thought she was a seer who dreamt of Lommy on Night 2. After all, on Day 1 she at first suspects Lommy then says she'd like to keep an eye on her. And the next Day she suddenly finds her innocent. Or it's possible she was killed to set someone up. Though I think the former is more likely. Which means I think Lommy's probably innocent.

[Nerwen]

That does it. Since, as far as I know, this game isn't innocent vs. innocent, there's no way you can be innocent. I don't believe this.

But there is a logic to it, Shasta.

What I am on the fence about myself is whether or not it's just a cover-story (i.e. one that allows the wolves to lynch the people most dangerous to them and blame the deaths on framing-attempts.)

EDIT: x'd with Brinniel.

[Nerwen]

Thanks, Brin.


Thoughts:

It seems yesterDay Aganzir was suspected by half and considered innocent by another half, and several others placed her somewhere in between. She's obviously not a no-trace kill since she left plenty of posts with substance.

I think suspected seerism is likely. Perhaps the wolves thought she was a seer who dreamt of Lommy on Night 2. After all, on Day 1 she at first suspects Lommy then says she'd like to keep an eye on her. And the next Day she suddenly finds her innocent. Or it's possible she was killed to set someone up. Though I think the former is more likely.

Or both; I rather think the wolves are multi-tasking. I expected to find Agan dead toDay, and I hadn't even seen the significance of her switch on Lommy. You're probably right about the Seer-hint, though.

EDIT: fixed quotes.

[A Little Green]

Wherein you do a triplebluff where we all expect that you know that we know that you knew Agan was a formidible anti-wolf force, so you know you that someone would call you on it so you know to say that that's obviously what the wolves know, even though you know that's what we know.

Honestly, this is what y'all sound like sometimes.I definitely know the feeling.

It seems now is the time of Day when only me and Nerwen are around... :D I've read everything quickly through, but have to digest a bit - I've read, what, three and a half pages today and feel a bit baffled still.

If I had the time I'd love to have a good look on the Eönwë lynch. I'll be off soon, but will be back probably in several hours, and will most definitely have a list by then. I had some comments about yesterDay but forgot them. Gosh, I must seem horribly confused. :D

Overall impressions:
- I'm glad to have seen more of Sally. She seems innocentish this far.
- Agan's kill can lead to a myriad directions, I'd love to have a better look at it too. (It seems I already have loads of stuff I'd like to have a look at...)
- I'm torn about Nerwen. The problem isn't the classic no read -problem, but a problem of having both innocent and suspicious vibes about her. She's a one I'll definitely have a look at if I have the time. (See? SEE?)
- I don't trust Ilya. I don't right know where I got that assumption from. Suppose I have to look at it (:rolleyes:)...

Like I said, I'll be back in some hours, hopefully with more substance. I have no time to start doing anything real, so this crappy post is all you'll get of me for now. More coming in time. And that's a promise.

[A Little Green]

Unless... Nerwen, are you still around? I'll be leaving in a bit less than twenty minutes, but if you are here we could have a little (green) chat. :D

[A Little Green]

4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.Why do you think so? Or rather, it's somewhat obvious what the reasoning behind that is, the question is what makes you reason that way? (Oh, and it wasn't me who complained about complicated sentences, was it? :rolleyes: ) My, that question really is horrible. If you don't get what it means (I'm almost ready to call you genius if you get it), then just answer the original question. Sorry to be so unclear. Just too little sleep, you know... :)

[A Little Green]

Hee-hee, quadruple posting! Hooray! ...except that this last post is just to say that I'm going now and leaving the computer to Lommy. I'll go and have a nap now before returning to school. Post a lot while I'm gone, will you, dearies? :Merisu:

[Nerwen]

Yes, I'm here.

EDIT: x'd with two Greenies. So you're going. Well, 'bye then.

[Thinlómien]

My first reaction to all that's happened was: "WHAT?!?"

Not because I'm particularily surprised to see Agan go (and revealed innocent after all...) or anything. But the reactions to her death are most baffling.

Boro's "ooh see they tried to frame me" looks just so false. I don't think Agan's death points at Boro especially, so he just seems to be exaggerating way too much.

Also, Nerwen's laconic words
Well, that was predictable.strike me as fishy. I cannot see the kill as that predictable. I mean, I'm not surprised to see Agan go but I didn't expect it either. Nerwen's reaction looks like the classic wolf mistake of supposing their kill was more obvious than it actually was. (On the other hand, all this criticims towards her comment also looks like the classic mistake of taking one random comment too seriously...:rolleyes: )

Ilya's overreacting too, but in her case it looks the most innocent. She's still rather new to this game after all, and her feelings sound genuine-ish.

I will be back in some hours and will post more. I want to talk about the tp-Boro issue for it certainly deserves some criticism...

[Nerwen]

Let me explain.

When Boro did that little bit about "signing Agan's death-warrant", and tp joined in by proclaiming that if Agan died he would go after Boro, I thought it looked like a set-up.

I guessed that either

a.) they were innocents trying to sick the wolves onto Agan because they'd both independently decided that she wasn't the Seer and might become a lynch-candidate... in which case the wolves might well take a look at her and decide that yes, she looked appetising.

or

b.) they were guilty and were going to kill Agan and then make the above claim.

So I thought there was a good chance Aganzir was going to get it.

EDIT: word left out.

[the phantom]

Because that's sort of why I declared her innocent and said what I did about her. I thought for sure she was not a WW, and not the Seer, but an Ordo that was likely to be a lynching distraction to other Ordos, and therefore thought it best that she die during the Night. So I did what I could to make her look like an attractive target.
That does it. Since, as far as I know, this game isn't innocent vs. innocent, there's no way you can be innocent. I don't believe this.
Oh, you don't say? You should really go ask Dancing Spawn about the time I tried to set her up to die. I was an Ordo in that game too.

Lommy and Nogrod might remember that. It was in their WerePenguin game.

I believe I also lied that I was the Hunter in that game. But no doubt lying about being the Hunter means that you can't possibly be innocent in your book.

Hate to say it, lad, but I'm way meaner and evil when I'm an Ordo than I am when I'm a WW. :smokin:
4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.
Why do you think so? Or rather, it's somewhat obvious what the reasoning behind that is, the question is what makes you reason that way? (Oh, and it wasn't me who complained about complicated sentences, was it? ) My, that question really is horrible. If you don't get what it means (I'm almost ready to call you genius if you get it), then just answer the original question. Sorry to be so unclear.
Erm... huh?

Okay, let's see if I can make any sense of that and answer what I think your question might be.... I would say that for sure half of my statement was true as of yesterday, and I think that it's probable that the entire statement is true as of today, but I don't know for certain at this time.

Cool?

I'm running late for work now. Be back in a few hours.

[Mithalwen]

Drat, I should have learned my lesson from Mith, to never cross paths with a woman when moddessfire is on the line.

Apparently, I was dangerous to cross long before Werewol (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=348547&postcount=7)f....:cool::Merisu:

[Nerwen]

There was a time before Werewolf?:eek:

[Thinlómien]

Alright, Nerwen, your explanation makes sense. I will now rightaway admit that I'm partly so suspicious of Boro and tp because I didn't understand their ploy and feel a little dumb right now. :D But that is not to say there isn't anything fishy in their behaviour.

Oh, you don't say? You should really go ask Dancing Spawn about the time I tried to set her up to die. I was an Ordo in that game too.
Lommy and Nogrod might remember that. It was in their WerePenguin game.
I believe I also lied that I was the Hunter in that game. But no doubt lying about being the Hunter means that you can't possibly be innocent in your book.I don't remember you doing that, but I do remember the hunter-ploy. But whatever you did back then has hardly any importance now - if you really did set up Agan to die you would have done even if it was your first attempt at getting innocents killed in this manner.

But anyway, what I was intending to talk about was this whole Boro-phantom mess. There are (surprisngly) three options:

1) They're both innocent and did indeed intentionally cause Aganzir's death to protect the seer and remove an innocent lynch target.

2) They're both guilty, and are having a little joke and enjoying it tremendously, or then just trying to cover their tracks.

3) One of them is a wolf and tricking the other while laughing evilly. (As a sidenote, if this is the case, they totally deserve it and we others should let them quarrel in peace. :p)

So, Agan died. I'm sad, because I trusted her. Plus she's all smart and pretty and stuff.
But on the bright side I wasn't killed. So guess what? You all get one more day of Phantom!Sounds like tp set Agan up for the kill so that he would survive never mind the seer...

And is this, in any way, more than a little contradictory?
Oh just my luck, I hope the wolves really don't think the intelligent villagers will fall for such an obvious trick?
Nice job, tp, I should have known you would have caught on. I thought you were going to start a Nog/Boro war and get me lynched. Well, maybe I'm speaking too soon.
So, first Boro is the victim of a wolvish staging to make him look guilty, and then he's a cunning ww played who was intending to get ordo-Aganzir killed all along? :rolleyes:

4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.Really, forget about that nonsense. Why would s/he have? Many seers leave loud players aloud just because it's easier to read them or they might get killed and focus on the submarines...

All this talk of tp's troubles me. He's using heavy means of allying himself with Boro and his arguments and ploys are rather wild. He may claim he did intentionally get Agan killed. That might be true. But it's just as probable that he just made this explanation up afterwards, or even worse, had it all planned in his wolvish mind all along... I don't trust him, at all. All that - the wolves falling for his "masterful" ploy etc - just looks a bit too smooth...


edit: xed with Nerwen

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am back, I have read throught the posts and I have come up with nothing.

And in my despair all I could think about is how fun it would be to dubble lynch Boromir and The Phantom.

One thing that has me worried is this tendencie to make long so called analysis which conclude very little and offer no explanation to how the conclution is reached.
It always makes me look an extra time when people make a lot of work and end up with very little product.

[Boromir88]

Boro's "ooh see they tried to frame me" looks just so false. I don't think Agan's death points at Boro especially, so he just seems to be exaggerating way too much.~Lommy
I wanted to kill the plot before one could even be started.

I mean look at it, the wolves fell into it. They thought ooh we get rid of Agan, who is interrogating and asking too many question, and we get this Nog/Boro/the phantom war! Killing several of us with one stone. (Oh and yes, I do believe Nog is innocent now too).

For some reason I believe Fea would get an immense joy out of all the loud mouths killing eachother off...imagine the posting and chaos? But, ha, I say to you Fea, I have caught on to your plot as well. The phantom is thus innocent, and I feel better about Nogrod. I shall redirect my attention eslewhere.

[mormegil]

In catching up, no I never read the last page or two of yesterday's crap as it seemed almost wholly irrelevant. I skimmed what time would allow but I was annoyed enough at the triviality of the posts that a skimming was all I had time for.

Anyway, the Boro/Phantom relationship is increasingly bothering me. I see that Lommy is of the same persuasion as I. It just seems rather odd to me that they would be so close and trusting. Both of them are being that way and any questioning they do, which has been minimal, has been token at best. I don't trust anybody ever that much and it just seems odd to me that they do. I think they could both be wolves and are having a joyous time at our expense. They continue to lay the obvious bait in front of us but we have been reluctant to take it, as they knew we would. Phantom talks of big grand schemes that he is masterminding but I don't see it, rather I see two cohorts who are working hand in hand. And now phantom seems almost giddy like he did on day 1 which is concerning. I don't feel that way, I don't think things are going so great for us that I can afford to be giddy. Yes, we still have our seer, but there is no way of knowing is he/she has bagged even a single wolf, we surely haven't.

Nerwen's 'that's predictable' statement does nothing to allay my fears. I understand the explination somewhat but the way in which her and Boro came out firing on those seems odd and I already suspected Nerwen and again this does not help.

Brinn, thank you for those quotes and analysis. I had noticed the way in which Agan stopped suspecting Lommy so if we assume the wolves went after Agan for potential seerism I think is safe to assume that Lommy is innocent. I haven't felt overly worried about Lommy but this adds some credibility to my assumption.

[mormegil]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Nerwen is doing some major back-tracking after her initial comments today.

[Boromir88]

I see Rune's back, and I have a question for you sir...
I don't know why, but apparently I am incabable of picking up on seer hints and such, so Aganzir's death came as suprise to me.
Are you saying you didn't believe Agan was the seer, but the wolves obviously killed her because they thought she was the seer, leading you to be surprised about her death? Is this a slip Rune? It really doesn't make sense, if you didn't pick up on Agan's seer hints, what makes you think that's what the wolves were trying to do?

Edit: crossed with morm twice.

[Boromir88]

Morm, I do not work hand-in-hand with wolves, I am the most vicious, turn on my buddies wolf, sans Nogrod. I have no qualms about lynching wolf-buddies if it benefits me.

And before someone says how suspicious this is for me to say this, and I'm obviously playing mind games, I'm only playing mind games on the wolves. If you're not a wolf, there's no reason you should think I am double-triple bluffing right now. Well if you want to, then that's your own prerogative.

[Nogrod]

And I do mean one more day. I don't see any way I survive another Night phase. For surely the WWs have realized by now that I am, indeed, the Dread Pirate Roberts.You know what, I'm indeed inclined to believe the mood behind this one. But I'm not sure if I believe it this way or as a version where the word "Night" is changed into a "Day" and the WW's into villagers. The problem is that your posting is such a thicket of thoughts, suggestions, plots, suspicions and pledges of trust that it's pretty impossible to see through them.

I bet it's fun to play that way and sometimes it's also fun to read. But at the same time it's pretty much making you immune to any actual accusations because you can always turn a suspicion back saying "it was just a test", or "it was just a ploy". So one needs to either buy you as you are or just ignore you. It's like a totally new type of submarine of whom you can get no hold of even if you see it in front of you all the time. A yellow submarine? :)

Anyway, whatever your role is you can probably count your Days to be numbered pretty soon. So all that remains to be asked is what do you do with the time you have been given? My verdict on you will depend on that factor.

EDIT: X'd from Rune onwards... good to see people around.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I see what you are saying Morm and if anybody would be daring enough to hide in the open, it would be Boromir and The Phantom. . . Even so I am not quite convinced that it is the case. I have seen it more times that daring innocents have paired up like this, than I have seen it done by wolves and thus my personal experience tells me they are innocent. Anyways I will try to keep an open mind.

Are you saying you didn't believe Agan was the seer, but the wolves obviously killed her because they thought she was the seer, leading you to be surprised about her death? Is this a slip Rune? It really doesn't make sense, if you didn't pick up on Agan's seer hints, what makes you think that's what the wolves were trying to do?

I am saying that I did not see any signs to Aganzir being the seer and therefor I did not predict nor expect her death, as it seemed Nerwen and others had.

EDIT: Cross posted with Nogrod

[mormegil]

Morm, I do not work hand-in-hand with wolves, I am the most vicious, turn on my buddies wolf, sans Nogrod. I have no qualms about lynching wolf-buddies if it benefits me.

And before someone says how suspicious this is for me to say this, and I'm obviously playing mind games, I'm only playing mind games on the wolves. If you're not a wolf, there's no reason you should think I am double-triple bluffing right now. Well if you want to, then that's your own prerogative.

Yes, you would only turn IF it benefits you and so far it has not.

Then for you to ask me to sit quietly and not worry about what your doing is absurd..."there there morm, us big people are doing our thing, don't worry about us unless your a wolf." That seems to be a thinly veiled threat that to suspect you will bring death to those who do.

I have no reason to not suspect you Boro. So when I see mindgames happening, which you and phantom claim are I begin to question. When I see two people working together like you and phantom are I really question it. You are both brazen enough to pull of a stunt like this.

[Nogrod]

I mean look at it, the wolves fell into it. They thought ooh we get rid of Agan, who is interrogating and asking too many question, and we get this Nog/Boro/the phantom war! Killing several of us with one stone. (Oh and yes, I do believe Nog is innocent now too).I need to think about this - and actually read the posts from late yesterDay and early toDay with a closer eye (I just skimmed the thread through as I got home) before saying anything more substantial. If I can do that.

I do have a feeling though that quite an interesting game of chess was played there between the last hours of yesterDay and the early hours of toDay - or then we are actually being led to believe that was the case which is kind of saying there was a game but a different one from what we think. So who were the players and who were played with?

When I saw tp keenly anticipating the Boro/Nog-war it made me suspect him heavily and somewhat lessened my suspicions on Boro. I'm not afraid to go to war if it needs to be done, but when some people are looking forwards to it, like it would be their entertainment, I do smell a rat.

Okay. I need to make some dinner and I will then read the last pages again before trying to give my two cents on those chess-games.

[Boromir88]

I have no reason to not suspect you Boro. So when I see mindgames happening, which you and phantom claim are I begin to question. When I see two people working together like you and phantom are I really question it. You are both brazen enough to pull of a stunt like this.~morm
Correct...but I would bet my life savings that at least either tp or I have already been dreamed of. And I would be my house (alright that's not as big of a gamble) that both of us have been.

I'm innocent, I don't want the seer out claiming I'm innocent. Hear that seer, if you have dreamed about me...stay put! Same with the phantom, if he/she knows tp is innocent, stay put. Now if he's a wolf, I would hope the seer would be leaving clues, or at least contemplate revealing.

But, since the seer has yet to reveal, and I see no signs of accusations against the phantom, other than he's playing a bunch of mind games, why suspect him? Why not work with him?

And see morm, you're so focused on the tricks and ploys, you're not looking at the actual kills. The phantom, under no circumstances would have killed McCaber on night 1, none. Period. The phantom hunts down the seer first; and I'll say that again - seer. Now, I will grant Lommy that under certain circumstances, if I was a wolf, I could possibly go for someone who wouldn't leave a trail. Those circumstances though, are only when I'm wolves with Mith, because she outranks me and I've been turned into the whipping boy of the three moddesses.

[A Little Green]

I'M UNEASY ABOUT
Noggins-Woggins - Generally he's been making me quite uneasy. Some actions of his are really weird, such as giving a third vote to a Boro he didn't trust (you still haven't explained that, by the way - I believe you just explained why it's sensible to vote for someone you don't trust, but it didn't answer the question why you gave him a third vote when he was already through...). Also, I still don't like his role in Legate's lynch. Hmmm.
Boro & phantom - They wouldn't probably be here otherwise, but the combination and the interactions and similarities between the two make me slightly uneasy... So yeah, I don't like the ploy stuff. I agree with Nog that it can be easily used as a cover for any behaviour whatsoever. And - I think I'm parroting morm now - I don't like the way the two of them trust each other so easily. I believe I even asked it once, and the answer had something to do with ploys... :rolleyes: Especially phantom's way of answering every question concerning himself with "If you are innocent, you keep your mouth shut and concentrate on other issues" doesn't strike me as fair play, to be honest.

I'M UNDECIDED ABOUT
Ilya - Hmmm. I had these evil vibes from her earlier toDay, but looking through what she has posted nothing jumped on me... So I don't know. I don't buy that "too smooth for a newbie" -stuff, though - even newbies can have very different styles of playing and should not be underestimated, and besides I have understood that she isn't entirely new to WW anyway.
Nerwen - Like I believe I said earlier, she gives me both innocentish and wolvish vibes so I'm totally confused about her.

I'M NOT UNEASY ABOUT
Brinniel - Still same as ever. (I believe I have never ever suspected her in a WW game - but then, I don't remember ever playing in a game with a Brinn-wolf, so I don't know how good I would be in spotting one...)
Lommy - Still seems genuine and sensible and thinks similarly to me in many points.
Kath - Her tone this far seems innocentish.
mormegil - Brings up good points, behaves sensibly and has done nothing to arouse my suspicions.
Rune - Same as morm. And besides, he is amusing. :p
Sally - Like I said earlier, she seems like an innocent Sally to me. I have nothing to add to that.
Shasta - Yes, I do have a clue about him (Hooray!), and he seems innocent to me.

I HAVEN'T GOT A CLUE ABOUT
Gil-Galad - Is he playing?
Gwathagor - No idea at all. I need to see more of him.
The Ka - The same as with Gwath. Hope they are having fun under the reindeer/rainbow/whatever... :D

I think my rep vote will go for either Rune, Sally, or morm. Rune and Sally I feel good about, and I'd love to see new faces among our darling reps. I think Rune would do well as a rep, and I agree with him on many points. Sally could do well also, and besides it would force some opinions from her - the only thing that worries me in her is that I don't remember her posting many opinions on other players. Morm, then, is the one whose innocence I feel the most sure about, for some unknown reason. I reserve to myself the possibility of bringing up a surprise candidate if something devastating happens.


EDIT: x-ed with Rune, morm, Nog and Boro. Nice to have people around! Hello! *waves*

[satansaloser2005]

To follow on from what Boro said, the McCaber kill tells us a lot about the wolves, although Cabbie himself said very little.


Why get rid of Cabbie when he's (as of yet) not posing a threat to you? There's no ranger in your way, why not go for a loud, very experienced player (which isn't to say that Cabbie is a newbie, because he's not) and get one of the big threats out of the way.

For instance, the way I play. (Like I should be telling you all this, but I'm trying to prove a point.)


When I'm seer, my first night dream is ALWAYS someone I know I can rely on to make a lot of trouble. Well, not so much trouble as noise I suppose. That way I already know where they're coming from and can gauge other's reactions from theirs. Either that or someone I thoroughly enjoy playing with, and then I pretty much hope they're innocent so I don't have to kill them. ;) (For instance, the game where I was a seer on here my first dream was Nog.)

When I'm a wolf, and there's a ranger, my first night kill is either a person whom I see as a threat just because of who they are, a person whom I don't like playing with as much as the others (don't take offense at that, any of my/our past kills from other games. I rarely use that as a kill pick method) or for who I think the seer might be (if it doesn't seem too obvious, as in they're leaving fairly big seer hints and I think they'll be protected). Granted, last game I didn't follow that pattern, but if I recall properly Gollum really wanted Legate dead. Moving on....if there's no ranger I go for the seer the first night. Period.



Can I use old games as evidence? I really don't think so, but my argument will make more sense if I mention this. One game I was an ordo and Nerwen was a wolf (I can't remember who her packmates were and it's pretty much irrelevant). I died the first night. That's right, Sally died the first night. Random kill much, children? (Also, you don't kill Sally the first night. You just don't. You keep me around to lynch, dang it! :Merisu:)

Sorry, I digress again. Anyway, I believe it was early in the second Day that Nerwen mentioned something about the ranger. There is no ranger in this game. Now she may have been kidding around, but my theory?

You don't kill someone like Cabbie the first night unless you're playing a risky game. You go for the seer unless there's a ranger, and even then you try. So if you think there's a ranger and you're the kind of player who likes to kill off semi-random people, who would you go for? Someone like Cabbie. And who would do that? Someone like Nerwen.

I just woke up. Does this make any sense?


EDIT: x'd with some little green girl. ;)

[mormegil]

To follow on from what Boro said, the McCaber kill tells us a lot about the wolves, although Cabbie himself said very little.


Why get rid of Cabbie when he's (as of yet) not posing a threat to you? There's no ranger in your way, why not go for a loud, very experienced player (which isn't to say that Cabbie is a newbie, because he's not) and get one of the big threats out of the way.


Sally, assume with me for just a moment that both Boro and phantom are wolves, what would happen if one or two of the louder players started dying at night and they did not??? Fingers immediately would be pointed at them for simply being alive. We only have a few loudmouths, although some are exceptionally loud, when Borowolf and tummywolf took inventory on the situation they could make the connection that it would be best to leave the other more vocal players alive for a while. I know that they would be going for the seer first and perhaps they saw something in McCaber and Agan that made them believe they were the seer.

My point is that if the team of 4 consists of at least two loudmouths there is little point in eliminating the other loudmouths that are not part of their pack as it makes people wonder why the two loudest are not dead.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally, assume with me for just a moment that both Boro and phantom are wolves, what would happen if one or two of the louder players started dying at night and they did not??? Fingers immediately would be pointed at them for simply being alive. We only have a few loudmouths, although some are exceptionally loud, when Borowolf and tummywolf took inventory on the situation they could make the connection that it would be best to leave the other more vocal players alive for a while. I know that they would be going for the seer first and perhaps they saw something in McCaber and Agan that made them believe they were the seer.

My point is that if the team of 4 consists of at least two loudmouths there is little point in eliminating the other loudmouths that are not part of their pack as it makes people wonder why the two loudest are not dead.



*concedes the point* Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the kill only points to Nerwen. That's just my interpretation of his death.

[mormegil]

*concedes the point* Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the kill only points to Nerwen. That's just my interpretation of his death.

I see your point too and I'm okay with it but I fear that too many have given both Boro and tummy a free pass up to this point and I'm not willing to do so. So when I see this it concerns me and I must point it out.

[satansaloser2005]

I see your point too and I'm okay with it but I fear that too many have given both Boro and tummy a free pass up to this point and I'm not willing to do so. So when I see this it concerns me and I must point it out.

Fair enough. :)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me. I'm sure Agan wasn't expecting to be backstabbed by a fellow innocent (if, indeed, you are, which I'm really beginning to doubt).

Edit: Though clearly I'm the evil one, what with my 666 posts. :smokin:

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

Such an atempt would make this game spectacular. . .It could result in them being lynched which (if wolve) would be amazing and if innocents. . .well, then it would just be fun.

Also such an atempt might result in a filibuster and that would please fea.

Anyway about this proposed Boromir-Phantom alliance of doom, what if only one of them is a wolf? For instance I could imagine Boromir using The Phantom in such a scenario. Knowing that Phantom loves a bit of attention and jumps at every chance he gets to do something spectacular, Boromir would "attach" him self to him. . . The gain could be to hide in the open and in case he was discovered, he would most likely get Phantom killed as well.

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind. Little Green does not seem to trust him and bases her fears on his votes, of the two vote I see the Legate as the more incriminating one. Not that the Boromir vote is not odd, but this Representative-thing brings in a whole new side to the game. ( a side we have no experience with)

[satansaloser2005]

I really, really, really want to double lynch Phantom and Boro, just because of their little stunt. I like how Phantom claims that it was done because Agan was "a lynching distraction to the rest of the Ordos"... completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me. I'm sure Agan wasn't expecting to be backstabbed by a fellow innocent (if, indeed, you are, which I'm really beginning to doubt).

Edit: Though clearly I'm the evil one, what with my 666 posts. :smokin:



Oh, lordie. We're all going to die! *runs and hides*


Alternatively, (assuming that Ditto and Dotto are innocent and telling the truth) if they assumed Agan was innocent she would have been the easiest to get night killed. The other players (for example, Ka, Gil, Kath, etc) would take a lot more work to get enough night kill attention drawn their way because they've been so quiet.

[Boromir88]

If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka? Why backstab someone who was actively contributing? Hardly seems fair to me.~Shasta
It's all in defense of the seer, Agan's done well, she has died with honour knowing there was a purpose. That's something that any innocent should want. Shasta, you may not like how I go about my business here, but you know first hand how effective it can be. I know when it doesn't work everything ends up blowing up in my face, but I've learned from the proceedings that I'm willing to go out and say the phantom, Nogrod, and Nerwen seem innocent. I may be completely wrong, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Such an atempt would make this game spectacular. . .It could result in them being lynched which (if wolve) would be amazing and if innocents. . .well, then it would just be fun.~Rune
You would like that wouldn't you wolf-Rune. Some fun and fireworks while you get the two most active people lynched and out of your way?

[Thinlómien]

And in my despair all I could think about is how fun it would be to dubble lynch Boromir and The Phantom.Don't make me a rep, or I'll be tempted... *evil grin*

Funnily, I'm feeling good about morm and Nog. Probably because they share my doubts considering Boro and tp.

Also, I'm a bit worried about this "oh since Agan died Lommy must be innocent" stuff. I admit it's a logical conclusion ;) but not so logical that this many people would have to agree with it. Something's fishy here.

And Boro's flip-flopping more:
Are you saying you didn't believe Agan was the seer, but the wolves obviously killed her because they thought she was the seer, leading you to be surprised about her death? Is this a slip Rune? It really doesn't make sense, if you didn't pick up on Agan's seer hints, what makes you think that's what the wolves were trying to do?First he admits trying to get Agan killed because he thought she was just an ordo, now he talks as if there had been obvious hints towards seerism in her posts... Getting caught in the web of your own lies, Boro? :Merisu:

Yes, you would only turn IF it benefits you and so far it has not. I could echo this. Boro, do you deny that you could unashamedly ally with your fellow wolves if it benefitted you?

Correct...but I would bet my life savings that at least either tp or I have already been dreamed of. And I would be my house (alright that's not as big of a gamble) that both of us have been.I would take the bet, but I don't want to make you a poor man... ;)

Especially phantom's way of answering every question concerning himself with "If you are innocent, you keep your mouth shut and concentrate on other issues" doesn't strike me as fair play, to be honest.Agreed.

I would like to make a list now, and I'd also love to reread but this village is so loooooooong... and Greenie will surely want to post too sooner or later... hmmm...


edit: xed with Shasta, Rune, Sally and Boro

[Boromir88]

Alternatively, (assuming that Ditto and Dotto are innocent and telling the truth) if they assumed Agan was innocent she would have been the easiest to get night killed. The other players (for example, Ka, Gil, Kath, etc) would take a lot more work to get enough night kill attention drawn their way because they've been so quiet.~sally
Thank you, I forgot to mention that in my last post...or at least Gil. The phantom tried to get Gil set up as a wolf-target but was forced to explain, thus rendering the plan useless.

Edit: crossed with tp. (by tp I mean Lommy); how I got those too confused no idea.

Oh and sally you're good in my book today.

[Boromir88]

Funnily, I'm feeling good about morm and Nog. Probably because they share my doubts considering Boro and tp.~Lommy
I would look back on what you said back to day 1...
Which means I'm not going to vote anyone who seems too sane to be my representative.
I assume you were very well having some fun, maybe joking, but don't take someone who seems "together" and making sense as being innocent. Don't make that mistake. ::hint, hint::

[mormegil]

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind. Little Green does not seem to trust him and bases her fears on his votes, of the two vote I see the Legate as the more incriminating one. Not that the Boromir vote is not odd, but this Representative-thing brings in a whole new side to the game. ( a side we have no experience with)

Agreed, something doesn't quite feel right with Noggie in my opinion, although nothing sinister has jumped out at me there is a nagging gut feeling. I've played enough with him to get a different vibe from him this time, although the same could be said for you Rune, perhaps it's because you are not at my throat that makes it so you are sending off a different vibe.

I think that at least one of the Boro/phantom duo is a wolf and wouldn't be surprised if both are either. The double lynch is an interesting and risky idea. I'm not prepared to do that honestly. I would rather lynch Boro over phantom as I think if only one is a wolf I would think it to be Boro.

On Gil, is there any risk of mod-fire from lack of participation? I don' remember reading that but I find it highly aggrivating and totally irresponsible to do this.

Cross posted with a few.

[Thinlómien]

I assume you were very well having some fun, maybe joking, but don't take someone who seems "together" and making sense as being innocent. Don't make that mistake. ::hint, hint::Actually, I was serious, but I was merely talking about Day1 back then, if I recall correctly. Of course, what you say is always a good advice in these games...

edit: xed with morm

[Boromir88]

And Boro's flip-flopping more:~Lommy
You know as well as I do flip-flopping is not a crime, you're admittingly one of the biggest flip-floppers around, and yet always innocent.

[Boromir88]

I would rather lynch Boro over phantom as I think if only one is a wolf I would think it to be Boro.~morm
Where did the consistant and gathered morm go? Just recently you said you're not all that suspicious, now suddenly the phantom or myself has to be a wolf, and of those two it's most likely me? You've been poking at tp all game, but now you want me lynched over him?

[mormegil]

Where did the consistant and gathered morm go? Just recently you said you're not all that suspicious, now suddenly the phantom or myself has to be a wolf, and of those two it's most likely me? You've been poking at tp all game, but now you want me lynched over him?

Things change Boro, tp has been odd and your little buddy-buddy relationship has bothered me. Your reactions are conving me more and more of your guilt. Now it seems that you are willing to turn on tp to get him lynched over you...odd you just said when you are a wolf you are willing to turn on your mates if it's to your advantage.

[Boromir88]

Now it seems that you are willing to turn on tp to get him lynched over you.~morm
Now you sir are putting words in my mouth. I asked you why you suddenly want me lynched over tp, I have not in any way thrown him under the bus.

[the phantom]

I think it's pretty much hilarious that some of you guys are suspecting me of Wolvery on the basis that I'm actually trying to do something to help the village (impact the WW kill to avoid the Seer).

What have you done for the village? Any ploys working for you? Had any ideas?

No. Of course not. You'd rather get all twisted out of shape because other people are actively fighting the Wolves in ways that you don't like for some reason. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm home now and I'm catching up on the reading. I'll be giving some direct responses shortly.

[Boromir88]

I'll give you this too...I have a feeling Rune's gonna like this one;

In this game, I would gladly say take me, and not tp...but see if I gave that impression they (being wolves) would of course take the phantom.

[Nogrod]

Okay. The way I see that chess match. I'm not yet saying I have a strong opinion who are the real players, I'm just trying to give a picture of what were the "seen" moves in the game and will give a few thoughts of it afterwards. And I do hope you will have your say about this as well!


Part I

1st move
Aganzir is really bugging me... and I don't think it's just paranoia.
We have the earlier example of her persistant attack on Lommy, followed by a very sudden dropping of suspicion. At the time I thought I'd wait and see, as it could be either the action of a wolf who saw she wasn't getting any takers... or of an innocent who'd taken a shower and realised she been over-the-top.
...And then today we have another Legate 180 (or an approach to one, anyway), with yours truly as the subject.

...

She goes from seeing me as not very suspicious (but not wanting to dismiss me, based on her knowledge of me, which I think is fair enough) to deciding I'm guilty... based on the same evidence.
Huh?
Now, I don't think I'm being biased... Aganzir is being very erratic, and doesn't seem to feel the need to explain. I don't know what it means, since it seems too clumsy for an Aganwolf... but it's not something I can ignore either.

2nd move
There you go Nerwen, putting us back to work.

Anyway, my thoughts, are Agan's harmless. Unless you're a wolf, because she's a pretty intense investigator and interrogator.

Edit: P.S. Oh great, I probably just signed Agan's death warrant now. Sorry my lady.

3rd move
If you did, then I'm going to be ticked. Seriously- if Agan's dead tomorrow I will attack you without mercy!

4th move
While I'm at it, Boro, if you keep saying stuff like that I'm afraid I'm going to have to start suspecting you.

5th move
No need, I'm going to move to strike this entire lame duck period off the record, and therefor it would have never existed.


Interlude by Daychange
So, I suggest that you stop giving me reading assignments, or so help me I'll start that Boro-Nog war I threatened and I'll back your opponent.Which is pointing at this earlier post. Tomorrow I'd like to see Boro and Nog go at it, and one of them lynch the other. That would be fun. We haven't had a full blown loudmouth war yet this game.

I believe that I will start off Day 3 by attacking both of them, and see if I can't get the village to jump on board.


Part II

1st move
Oh just my luck, I hope the wolves really don't think the intelligent villagers will fall for such an obvious trick?

2nd move
So, Agan died. I'm sad, because I trusted her. Plus she's all smart and pretty and stuff.
Was there a trick involved?
Do explain. I love tricks.

3rd move
Their trick to get me lynched, I want to see how they plan to work this one out.

4th move
How selfish of you. Assuming that the entire kill was based on lynching you! How arrogant. How self centered!
The plan was obviously to set up me to be lynched.

5th move
Well, that was predictable.

6th move
Feeling good about that one are you Nerwen? Why didn't you go for morm, he's been coming after you.

7th move
Hey, now, some of us are just now finding out the kill, and are still in shock. Not all of us knew several hours ago like you did, so just keep your snide comments to yourself.

8th move
No need to take that tone, tp. I could say it's arrogant of you and Boro to assume the kill was about getting one of you lynched. I don't get how that would work. Both of y'all trusted Agan. I don't know what case a wolf could reasonably stir up. It'd be much easier to drive me to the gallows, since I've continually said I suspected Agan. That said, Nerwen, you're being odd and it's weirding me out.

9th move
After defending her I said I probably just signed her death warrant...definitely makes it look like I knew too much.

10th move
Now, am I correct in assuming you said all of that about Agan because you were in fact setting her up to be killed during the Night?

Because that's sort of why I declared her innocent and said what I did about her. I thought for sure she was not a WW, and not the Seer, but an Ordo that was likely to be a lynching distraction to other Ordos, and therefore thought it best that she die during the Night. So I did what I could to make her look like an attractive target.



Oh my. This is a stupid endeavour indeed... :rolleyes:

I mean the rest is there for you to see.

Bleurgh. I feel such an idiot at the moment, but I hope the compiling of the beginnings and how it went yesterDay helps...

I thought it was a good idea but turned out to be a Sisyfos-task.


And I seem to have crossposted with a lot of people so I'm leaving this here but will try to show a few points after I've read the latest.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

On Gil, is there any risk of mod-fire from lack of participation? I don' remember reading that but I find it highly aggrivating and totally irresponsible to do this.

I made the executive decision when he first showed up and claimed that he refused to read the rules that you guys get to deal with him. I'm staying right out of it. :D

[satansaloser2005]

The best choice for rep is obvious.



--Gil for representative



:p


EDIT: I would have added something else to my 'nomination' but I figured it would get me modfired. Hehe.

[the phantom]

But anyway, what I was intending to talk about was this whole Boro-phantom mess. There are (surprisngly) three options:

1) They're both innocent and did indeed intentionally cause Aganzir's death to protect the seer and remove an innocent lynch target.

2) They're both guilty, and are having a little joke and enjoying it tremendously, or then just trying to cover their tracks.

3) One of them is a wolf and tricking the other while laughing evilly. (As a sidenote, if this is the case, they totally deserve it and we others should let them quarrel in peace.)
If 2 was true then we'd get totally busted by the Seer.

If 3 is true then congrats to Boro. You're playing awesome.

But logically option 1 makes the most sense. And if option 1 is true then that means Boro and I are trying harder than anyone in this village to bring about victory. Yeah, so let's lynch us. :rolleyes:
4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.
Really, forget about that nonsense. Why would s/he have?
Now, all of this nonsense about questioning my Seer dream statements. To me, it seems as if you're asking, "You seem sure that you've been a dream already. Who is the Seer, Phantom?"

Well, I don't think I need to tell you that I'm not about to touch that question.
He may claim he did intentionally get Agan killed. That might be true. But it's just as probable that he just made this explanation up afterwards, or even worse, had it all planned in his wolvish mind all along... I don't trust him, at all. All that - the wolves falling for his "masterful" ploy etc - just looks a bit too smooth...
Indeed, I did set up Agan to get killed.

I was originally trying to set up Gil, but your sister managed to throw a wrench in that ploy. So instead I tried to set up Agan. Good thing you weren't around or you probably would've tried to sabotage it.

And as far as the "the wolves falling" for the ploy- that is possibly what happened. Or it is also possible that the kill was made for reasons of their own, but happened to fit nicely with what I was trying to accomplish. There's no way to know.
It just seems rather odd to me that they would be so close and trusting.
It's nothing we haven't done before.

As a matter of fact, I can recall a game (I think it was another of Fea's) where Boro and I reached a complete understanding on the very first day.

Sorry, but that's just how we roll.
Anyway, whatever your role is you can probably count your Days to be numbered pretty soon.
I'm counting on it. I plan on being Wolf-bait tonight. Unless Boro beats me for the honors, in which case I shall find my rest the following night.

(to be continued....)

[Thinlómien]

You know as well as I do flip-flopping is not a crime, you're admittingly one of the biggest flip-floppers around, and yet always innocent.Oh, I wasn't really seriously believing in your guilt before, but you're starting to make me more convinced. That is not a very good defense, dear sir. That does not in any way explain your actions. Just elaborate a little. Like "I forgot that..." or something. Also, you replied nothing when I commented about your earlier contradiction...

~*~

Ok, now a list.

Innocentish
Brinn, Rune, Greenie, Kath - it's just the general tone of their posts, and a gut-feeling. I'm well aware, though, that they might be slipping under my radar too.
morm - I don't know, he just seems very innocent toDay.
Shasta - however fishy you others find him, I have to admit it, I trust him.

Middle
Nerwen - I used to consider her rather innocent but something, maybe the general mood in this village, has made me more doubtful. Also, I know she's so terribly horribly sneaky as a wolf that I'd do right in distrusting her a little. ;)
Gil, Gwath, THE Ka - not enough material to go on.
Nogrod - I think he seems rather innocent now, but he has been rather suspicious in the past... He's curiously distant in this game and I can't get a proper read on him.
Ilya - looks more innocent now. I'm not ready to bury all my doubts of her yet, though.
Sally - more like traditional innocent sally than traditional evil sally, but she could really just be either. She makes me raise my eyebrows a little from time to time, like that long explanation of hers of why Nerwen's guilty really didn't make any sense to me.

Suspicious
phantom, Boro - (surprise surprise :rolleyes: ) I don't like all this ploy stuff of theirs. I think it's totally possible that just one of them is a wolf (and it's even possible they're both innocent, but for that they're acting pretty darn suspiciously) but it would be difficult to say which one since they both have suspicious traits of their own on top of those that they share. Tp seems somehow a little detached, throws around weird arguments, is over-eager to defend himself and dismisses suspicions against him on weak grounds. Boro keeps flip-flopping and seems to avoid stuff.

In conclusion: I have very little idea who to vote for a rep. I'd be tempted of picking one of those that strike me as innocent but slip under my radar but I don't really know.. somehow I'd be more comfortable voting either morm or Shasta. Oh, I need to think and also, I need to see who my rep-candidates suspect and how and why... Also, I must say I'm not content at all with only finding tp and Boro suspicious. I dn't want to get too focused on them.
But anyway, now I'm going and handing the keyboard over to Greenie...


edit: mass-exd

[Nogrod]

I made the executive decision when he first showed up and claimed that he refused to read the rules that you guys get to deal with him.I'm daring to believe this is good news looking at this game. It means we can count him within our numbers, that is when the tally is done.

But you who haven't played with him should also know that his history in WW hasn't been the most pleasant one to be honest as he tended to get lynched or killed everytime he played quite early with basically the same reasons he got picked on in this one...

Some of you of course didn't know that and I'm believing that was unintentional. But you might wish to send him a PM after the game? Just a suggestion...

[the phantom]

I do have a feeling though that quite an interesting game of chess was played there
Yes! Indeed there was!

And you'll notice that part of it was meant to keep you alive as well. The whole Boro-Nog war that I threatened... that was a complete bluff. I have no intention of starting one. I never did. But I was hoping that it might help the WWs think that it would be beneficial to leave you and Boro alive through the Night.
I don't like the way the two of them trust each other so easily. I believe I even asked it once, and the answer had something to do with ploys...
Yes, the reason why I'm really trusting him at this point is that he appears to have caught onto my ploys and not attempted to ruin them, while at the same time running similar ploys of his own.

I've heard plenty of people say they don't like ploys, blah blah whine whine- but the fact is they have worked beautifully in the past, and have possibly already aided us in this village. So seriously, who cares if you don't like them?
completely ignoring the fact that he himself is probably the biggest distraction of all, so by that logic, should have tried to get himself killed.
I wanted one more day.

I got it.

So tonight, I do indeed hope to leave the village honorably via Wolf-kill.
If you were going to try that ploy, why not on Gil, Gwath, or Ka?
Did you read yesterday at all? I did try it with Gil.

[Boromir88]

If 3 is true then congrats to Boro. You're playing awesome.~the phantom
Ditto to you sir.

Like "I forgot that..." or something. Also, you replied nothing when I commented about your earlier contradiction...~Lommy
I don't take the time to respond to those baseless accusations. I fail to see how it was a contradiction, I was asking Rune to clarify what he said, it had nothing to do with what I thought about Agan and her death.

Boro keeps flip-flopping and seems to avoid stuff.~Lommy
I thought you would have known by now, I have an answer and explanation for everything when I'm a wolf. I can make every piece of the story fit together. I don't have all the answers Lommy, give me a couple days and maybe I will. Right now I have no clue who are the wolves, but I have a good feeling on a couple people I think are innocent, and there's a place to start. I'm not conventional, and I don't play it safe, you don't like that fine, but at least try to distinguish the difference between mindgames that try to baffle wolves, and mindgames that intentionally lead the village astray.

Edit: crossed with the phantom.

[Boromir88]

You'll love this one too Lommy, I'm actually in the process of another ploy right now, but if I told you right now, I'd have to kill you - or well make sure you wouldn't tell the world.

[the phantom]

I'm actually in the process of another ploy right now
Villager 1: "Oh really, you are? Tell us what it is! Tell us!"
Villager 2: "Nah, just go ahead and do it, but know that I think all ploys are suspicious!"
Villager 3: "Ooh, ooh, and if your ploy works and you succeed in thwarting the Wolves, we'll try to lynch you!"
Villager 4: "Yeah, that makes sense!"

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

blah blah whine whine

Is that not what you are doing?

People start to question you and you start whining "sob sob I am the one trying the hardest, people don't get me sob sob"

[the phantom]

I don't see any way you can confuse people complaining about effective ploys with me pointing out what they are doing.

[satansaloser2005]

To Noggie, re: my fake vote for Gil.

You realize I was kidding, right? I meant no harm, Fea's comment just caught my eye and I couldn't resist the joke.



All right, children, play nice now. If phantom and/or Boro are wolves, you're probably playing right into their hands by talking about them and pretty much no one else.

[the phantom]

In addition, I cannot see how you can attempt to take my obviously exaggerated paraphrasing ("whine whine") and turn it into some kind of point. And I won't even mention that my "whine whine" addition was far closer to the truth of the attitudes displayed than your "sob sob" summary of my attitude.

[mormegil]

++Lommy for Rep

Okay so I'm likely to be a bit more hit and miss for the remainder of the day and I would like to get my vote out there. I think Lommy the most innocent and I have a degree of trust in her. She is responsible and wise. She will do what she finds best with her vote and she has a similar mind to me.

FYI...they are doing some hardwood flooring work in our house so I will be displaced tomorrow and a few days this coming week. Internet access may be a bit more limited, I'm not sure if I will have access where we plan to stay.

[A Little Green]

Some comments on the hot potato of the Day - phantom and Boro.
You would like that wouldn't you wolf-Rune. Some fun and fireworks while you get the two most active people lynched and out of your way?This is a good example of a thing that has been bothering me in Boro for some time, but I've never remembered to point it out before now... It's actually very similar to what he said to Nerwen at the beginning of this Day. Both times, a small quote followed by a direct, half-playful accusation. I have no idea what he is aiming at with those. Ummm... Actually, Boro, are you serious with these or not?
What have you done for the village? Any ploys working for you? Had any ideas?Now this really makes me miss the games in which you could be an OK villager without making all sorts of ploys all the time... Just imagine a village in which everyone is fabricating their own ploys and whenever someone throws suspicion around (always as a part of the ploy, though), it will be answered by "Shhhh, if you are innocent, you'll leave that be." :rolleyes:
So tonight, I do indeed hope to leave the village honorably via Wolf-kill.Ahem. Sorry to be simple, but if you really are innocent and want to do so, why say it aloud? (Oh sorry, I forgot. This must be a ploy so you obviously can't answer the question.)

Honestly, this ploy stuff is getting on my nerves. :p I don't like a situation where a few players can basically turn away every suspicion concerning their weird behaviour saying "Oh, that was a ploy, but of course you are too silly to understand advanced WW-playing. *sigh*"

Gah.


EDIT: x-ed with phantom, Sally, phantom and morm

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Whenever people don't get what you are up to, you tell them that it is a ploy and when they start questioning that you get offended.

I did not see anymore whining from their part, than from you. . . . So that was why I made my remarc.

EDIT: Cross posted with LG

[A Little Green]

Little Green does not seem to trust him and bases her fears on his votes, of the two vote I see the Legate as the more incriminating one.A slight correction... Nog didn't vote Legate himself - I wouldn't be so wary if he had. What worried me was that he raised a point (quite vague and exaggerated, based on Leggie's Star Wars jokes) against Legate when there already was speculation about voting him around. It seemed like encouraging people to vote an innocent Legate while keeping his own hands clean of doing something Nog would obviously never do (ie. lynching a contributing player on Day 1).

I'll vote for a rep soonish, and my vote will probably go for one of the three I mentioned earlier (Rune, Sally or morm). I could also vote Lommy. I'd like to hear other people's opinions on who they'd like to see as reps, so I could better judge who is a reasonable vote candidate in the sense that I could hope that the same person gets another vote as well. The whole business of choosing reps seems to have been forgotten in all this phantom-Boro-mess...


EDIT: x-ed with Rune

[the phantom]

Green- you asked a question that I think needed to be asked at this point. I'm preparing an answer. :)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

A slight correction... Nog didn't vote Legate himself - I wouldn't be so wary if he had. What worried me was that he raised a point (quite vague and exaggerated, based on Leggie's Star Wars jokes) against Legate when there already was speculation about voting him around. It seemed like encouraging people to vote an innocent Legate while keeping his own hands clean of doing something Nog would obviously never do (ie. lynching a contributing player on Day 1).

I'll vote for a rep soonish, and my vote will probably go for one of the three I mentioned earlier (Rune, Sally or morm). I could also vote Lommy. I'd like to hear other people's opinions on who they'd like to see as reps, so I could better judge who is a reasonable vote candidate in the sense that I could hope that the same person gets another vote as well. The whole business of choosing reps seems to have been forgotten in all this phantom-Boro-mess...


EDIT: x-ed with Rune

That just shows how easily I can be manipulated. . . When I read that I was sure I remembered Noggie voting for him, I guess I should always go back and check these things when in doubt. (or maybe it just shows that I have no memory)

I appologise Nogrod

[satansaloser2005]

Hmmmm. I think I'm going to wait until I get back from work to vote. At the moment, I'm considering Boro, Morm, Phantom, and maybe Lommie or Greenie. Semi in that order, but not specifically.

So basically I have no idea yet. ;)



Re: Morm.
Thanks for letting us know you may be gone bud. Have them come redo my kitchen when they're done, would you? ;)

[the phantom]

Just imagine a village in which everyone is fabricating their own ploys and whenever someone throws suspicion around (always as a part of the ploy, though), it will be answered by "Shhhh, if you are innocent, you'll leave that be."
I don't like a situation where a few players can basically turn away every suspicion concerning their weird behaviour saying "Oh, that was a ploy, but of course you are too silly to understand advanced WW-playing. *sigh*"
You are totally exaggerating the situation. Not very many ploys have been done, and to my knowledge they all have been explained in detail.

So this business about turning aside every suspicion via ploys and not allowing people to talk- that's simply not true.
So tonight, I do indeed hope to leave the village honorably via Wolf-kill.
Ahem. Sorry to be simple, but if you really are innocent and want to do so, why say it aloud? (Oh sorry, I forgot. This must be a ploy so you obviously can't answer the question.)
Incorrect. I can answer this.

The Wolf-bait ploy: That I am perfectly open with the fact that I am but a Seer-shielding Ordo does not negatively impact the ploy, for the Werewolves know good and well that I might do the same exact thing as the Seer. They fear this, and thus feel compelled to kill me despite my declaration that it is a trick.

On one hand the WWs desperately want me dead. On the other hand, it is possible that to be killed is exactly what I want, so they are equally compelled not to use the kill on me.

What is the obvious solution?

Kill me, but not with a Night kill.

In other words, get me lynched.

And has anyone noticed? That's the direction the wind has started to blow. All of you, put aside your suspicion of me for a moment and read through that explanation again. Pretend that someone you trust wrote it. It makes perfect sense, and I believe that that is exactly what is happening here in this village.

Anyway, thanks for asking that, Green.

Any other questions? I'm innocent, and I'm here to help. You might want to try and talk with me rather than suspect me simply for being buddy-buddy with someone else who, according to the odds of this village, has a 75% chance of being innocent.

[Nogrod]

So a few possibilities over that chess-game.


First Nerwen's initial answer to Agan looks pretty odd because of a few things.

First she tries to nullify it with the fact that Agan changed her mind during the Day. She indeed casts suspicion on Agan for doing a Legate 180 twice (with Lommy earlier) - while the original Legate 180 was an innocent one!
Secondly she still left it open, leaving reservations like it would be clumsy for an Aganwolf - which is true indeed.

But clearly it looks bad for Nerwen. She defends herself strongly (with bad reasons, look the first point above) not to get lynched but still tries to leave a considerate aftertaste to us others while preceeding to kill her at Night (point two), right? So Nerwolf thought that as Agan's case was so bad she could have been a seer? And therefore... end of story.


Second thing is the initial phase of the proposed "wolves should kill Agan" plot.

First of all Boro made his remark on "signing Agan's death warrant" as an "edit" PS. to the post. If it was sincerely an edit it would fit nicely with his subsequent post answering Nerwen's "threat" of starting to suspect him with: "I'm going to move to strike this entire lame duck period off the record, and therefor it would have never existed", so effectively backtracking from what he said? This interpretation would make Boro look wolvish and tp not. Also the status of Nerwen could be called into question. How about they (Boro & Nerwen) played it together? Nerwen says: "if you keep saying stuff like that I'm afraid I'm going to have to start suspecting you". It's nicely articulated to be a wolf on wolf to be sure.

On the other hand, if Boro was using that "edit" and "PS." merely as a ploy and had intended to give that appearance trying to make Agan lynched for the good of the country as he was so secure she was not the seer? And then tp managed to get the plot in less than five minutes. Real heroes!

But correct me if I'm wrong. My feeling is that tp has claimed to be the mastermind of that plot and made a big number of it - not Boro. Still Boro made the first move if this is true... There is something too smooth in this story for me to believe.

Maybe tp got the idea from Boro's hasty PS. and Boro followed suit? If that is the case I'm really astonished and admiring your teamwork.


Okay. It seems there is a lot of posting and I'll have a break here...

[Boromir88]

Actually, Boro, are you serious with these or not?~Greenie
Nope. I like having fun, I'm demented. Rune didn't say anything about it, I doubt he felt the need to. Well I'm not going to speak for him, it was nothing purposeful on my part.

Honestly, this ploy stuff is getting on my nerves. I don't like a situation where a few players can basically turn away every suspicion concerning their weird behaviour saying "Oh, that was a ploy, but of course you are too silly to understand advanced WW-playing. *sigh*"~Greenie
I believe I told you yesterday I want you to question what everyone does, that's a good thing. I love using questions :).

What I'm telling you, is everything I'm attempting is for the sake of anyone innocent, if you believe me, I love you. If you don't that's your own choice, have the spine to send me to the gallows and live with the decision when you're proven wrong.

The whole business of choosing reps seems to have been forgotten in all this phantom-Boro-mess...
I'm more than willing to do so, I'm glad to see morm's and you have the right idea.

[A Little Green]

FYI...they are doing some hardwood flooring work in our house so I will be displaced tomorrow and a few days this coming week. Internet access may be a bit more limited, I'm not sure if I will have access where we plan to stay.Thanks to Sally, I only just realised this... I'm not sure I'll vote him for my rep after all, if he's not sure how much he can participate. (And yes, I can well commiserate with that... we'll be having some guys "fix up" our bathroom soonish - thanks to which the apartment smells of sewers and there's some nerve-wrecking noise going on during day-time. I hate it already though they haven't even started at our place yet...)
Green- you asked a question that I think needed to be asked at this point. I'm preparing an answer.A pleasant surprise. I'm looking forward to that. :)


EDIT: x-ed with phantom, Nog and Boro

[the phantom]

That's a great break-down, Nog.

If I'm remembering correctly, ever since my idea to get Gil killed was shot down, I was looking for an opportunity to shoot someone else up into the lynch spot. And I believe I already had Agan in mind, for I had her listed as my most innocent person on the list I made well before Boro ever made his comment.

Additionally, I had in the back of my mind that I wanted both myself, you, and Boro to survive to the next day (that was the reason behind my Boro-Nog war comment). Thus when I saw Boro's PS, a door opened to both set up Agan for the kill and say something threatening to Boro (making it more likely that the two of us would survive the Night).

And then later I once again threaten to start a loudmouth war between the two of you (once again, trying to keep the two of you safe during the Night).

So, that is the chess match from my vantage point. Does that help at all?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I hate that I have to leave now (I will be gone in 10-20 min) when things are interesting, but I do. I will be gone a few hours, but I should be home long before deadline.

I don't know who to vote for. . . Kath, Mormegil or maybe Phantom
I have no candidate I feel really good about and I can think of reasons why not to vote for any of these, but they are still the people I would feel best about voting for.

EDIT: Cross posted with The Phantom

[satansaloser2005]

I hate that I have to leave now (I will be gone in 10-20 min) when things are interesting, but I do. I will be gone a few hours, but I should be home long before deadline.

I don't know who to vote for. . . Kath, Mormegil or maybe Phantom
I have no candidate I feel really good about and I can think of reasons why not to vote for any of these, but they are still the people I would feel best about voting for.

EDIT: Cross posted with The Phantom


Not to discredit Morm or try to sway your vote too much, but he said he may not be here much the rest of today. Perhaps you should go for one of your other choices.



I'll probably do the same thing. I trust Morm (at least to a point) but if he's busy I don't want him to have to dash around finding internet connections or, worse yet, not be able to post.

[Boromir88]

Maybe tp got the idea from Boro's hasty PS. and Boro followed suit? If that is the case I'm really astonished and admiring your teamwork.~Nogrod
We do work well together, which I think might be getting under some people's (i.e. wolves skin :D)

But anyway I don't know who the mastermind was...I noticed tp tried earlier with Gil, that was blown up, and so I tried someone else. I actually didn't know tp was playing along until the "reading assignment" post I thought he was serious in starting a Nogrod/Boro war, if Agan was killed.

Look, I'm not trying to get innocents lynched, far from it, I would have filibustered if Agan was in trouble (seriously). But, I do want to keep the wolves off the seer for as long as possible, and that means giving wolves ordos to go after. Maybe they went after Agan because they really thought she was the seer, I don't know, but to me the plan worked, and it's a big gorilla off my back to see tp caught on and added his own part.

Honestly, this may probably make me look more suspicious, I really don't care...but if I was a wolf and believed Agan was the seer, why would I set her up for a wolf kill? Why not just quietly take her out at night, because she trusted me and voted for me as a rep even?

[A Little Green]

On one hand the WWs desperately want me dead. On the other hand, it is possible that to be killed is exactly what I want, so they are equally compelled not to use the kill on me.I disagree with you here. If you were innocent and I were wolf (oh how I love to write those two magical words in a row...:Merisu:), I would definitely want to keep you alive because, as you can see, the discussion revolves pretty much around you. There is bound to be at least one wolf who is slipping by very nicely as we are debating this, regardless of whether you are innocent or not. Get my point?


EDIT: x-ed with Runey, Sally and Boro

[mormegil]

Greenie, I understand your reservations, however if I am voted as a rep, I'm willing, if needs be to take my laptop and sit in my car in the driveway while I use my wireless network if necessary. I wouldn't mind being a rep and I believe I will have access but I wanted to make sure everybody is aware that at the end of this DAY it may be a bit more difficult.

Where is Kath and Ka today???

[the phantom]

Ah, I see Rune. I wasn't attempting to come across as "offended". I assure you I was expecting some stuff like this to happen, so I wasn't outright offended. Partly amused, partly surprised that so many seemed to be thinking that way, and rather shocked that aspects of it had not already been challenged by others.

[satansaloser2005]

Greenie, I understand your reservations, however if I am voted as a rep, I'm willing, if needs be to take my laptop and sit in my car in the driveway while I use my wireless network if necessary. I wouldn't mind being a rep and I believe I will have access but I wanted to make sure everybody is aware that at the end of this DAY it may be a bit more difficult.

Where is Kath and Ka today???



Wait. The end of today or toDay? I think I misunderstood your post.


Heh and that's why I was considering not voting you. Don't know about where you're at, but it's cold here and I'd feel bad if you did have to do that. Not that I don't think you'd be willing to do it, I'd just feel rather sorry for you. Hehe.

[the phantom]

I disagree with you here. If you were innocent and I were wolf, I would definitely want to keep you alive...
Really? Even if you thought I was maybe the Seer? That sounds like suicide to me.

And even if you'd want to keep me alive despite that, I doubt your packmates would agree with you.

[the phantom]

Vote for me, Sally, or I will make like a "squid in a pepper shaker" and exterminate you!

:D

EDIT: She tried to give me a crash course in Dr. Who yesterday. Don't ask.

[mormegil]

Wait. The end of today or toDay? I think I misunderstood your post.


Heh and that's why I was considering not voting you. Don't know about where you're at, but it's cold here and I'd feel bad if you did have to do that. Not that I don't think you'd be willing to do it, I'd just feel rather sorry for you. Hehe.

When it comes time for the reps to vote and if I'm a rep I will make sure I have access. I think I will have access where I am staying but I'm not sure. Either way it won't be too bad.

[A Little Green]

Greenie, I understand your reservations, however if I am voted as a rep, I'm willing, if needs be to take my laptop and sit in my car in the driveway while I use my wireless network if necessary. I wouldn't mind being a rep and I believe I will have access but I wanted to make sure everybody is aware that at the end of this DAY it may be a bit more difficult.

Where is Kath and Ka today???The bit about Kath and Ka I totally agree with. Where are those lovely ladies toDay? Or our friend Gwathagor? I miss them. :(

As for the first part, I'm glad to hear that you'll be able to participate. I might vote you for rep toDay, because of the choices I had you are the one I have heard others considering for reps as well. Back with my rep vote soon...


EDIT: x-ed with 2x phantom & 1x morm

[A Little Green]

Really? Even if you thought I was maybe the Seer? That sounds like suicide to me.And why would I think you are the seer? :) I'm really enjoying this debate, you know. I hate to leave, but it's getting late and I'll have to let Lommy post as well... How stupid.

I'll vote

++morm for rep

[Nogrod]

And even if you'd want to keep me alive despite that, I doubt your packmates would agree with you.Good that you reminded me of that tp.

I mean there has been a host of arguments going around like "X would not kill Y" or "Z would kill W" so "they are wolves" / "must be innocents". Now even if the wolves may stab each other in the back during the Days, during the Nights it's normally a teamwork and quite democratic indeed - at least to my experience of both being a wolf a host of times and reading wolf-PM's some have provided other players in the after-game discussions.

So I would take every such claim with a pinch of salt indeed.

[Kath]

Hello! Well I am here at last. I attempted to get on earlier and I have no idea why I couldn't. My Facebook was working, my hotmail was working, it just wouldn't link me through to here for some reason. Anyway, it's working now so. I shall have a look at what's been going on toDay and try to get back with some thoughts but I do have one immediate question ... why is phantom now called tummy? :confused:

[mormegil]

I do have one immediate question ... why is phantom now called tummy? :confused:

I can field that one. I gladly take credit for it. Earlier when I was commenting on his silliness I called him phantummy and then it went to tummy for short. I think we should all have a nickname, I'm just glad I have morm.

[Thinlómien]

++Shasta for rep

I think he's probably innocent and I want to know what he'll do with the power... but if he gives a mere spite-vote to tp I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

[the phantom]

Nog- does my view of the chess match make sense to you?

Green- did I answer your questions?
I mean there has been a host of arguments going around like "X would not kill Y" or "Z would kill W" so "they are wolves" / "must be innocents". Now even if the wolves may stab each other in the back during the Days, during the Nights it's normally a teamwork and quite democratic indeed - at least to my experience of both being a wolf a host of times and reading wolf-PM's some have provided other players in the after-game discussions.

So I would take every such claim with a pinch of salt indeed.
I agree to some extent, but you also must keep in mind individual personalities when deciding how much salt to use.

For instance, when I've been a Werewolf, I've always been the one who PMs the kill to the Mod as far as I can remember. And I would not be above being undemocratic if my partners were being unreasonable.

For instance, if someone was ringing Seer bells and the rest of my pack wanted to kill somebody else merely to cause some sort of flimsy set up that may or may not work, I would PM them and tell them that hitting the Seer was the priority.

If they actually disagreed with that statement, then I'd disown them, and could very well just pretend to go along with them and then send my own pick to the Mod. ;)

[Boromir88]

Hmm. I was thinking about tp or Nogrod as a rep. But, I may follow Lommy's suit and go with Shasta. Shasta, I like your combative style so far against suspicions, that's a good sign, but I wish I could see more of your own suspicions. I may be missing them.

Right now, morm's making me uneasy. You avoided the confrontation too easily. What I remember of you morm is you're not only sensible, but a strong player, in the sense that you don't back away easily. I liked your points against Nerwen yesterday, but today you started efforts against tp and myself, which doesn't mean you're a wolf, but you shied away from that confrontation too easily. When I challenged you as to why I suddenly leapfrogged tp in your suspicions, you put on the brakes again. It looks like you're making sense by continually making points on your suspects, but when challenged, you don't want to go through with it, you don't pursue your suspicions any further.

[the phantom]

++Shasta for rep

I think he's probably innocent and I want to know what he'll do with the power... but if he gives a mere spite-vote to tp I'm going to be seriously disappointed.
Yeah, right. Because no one would guess that would happen. :rolleyes:

What it looks like to me- you're hoping he'll do just that, but saying what you did in an attempt to distance yourself from him when he does what you are betting he'll do.

[Nogrod]

We have 16 people in this village, 4 of them wolves.


Of these we have the quiet departement:

Gil-Galad whom I think is innocent but may not return to the game. Let's hope he does.

The Ka looks like the über-submarine. I might support her lynch toDay unless some real pressing RL reasons come to the surface.

Kath I'm very unsure of as she seems to trust me somewhat (at least the last time she was around of which some time has really gone) and I find it slightly suspicious. Maybe I should just start to learn to be a bit more grown-up and stop suspecting her everytime (I quess this is the second time I'm saying this; now what does it tell? :confused:). But she really should post more. I'm not inclined to suggest her lynching anyway, at this point at least.

Gwath I'd just like to see more. I have no clear picture of him. Sometimes I think not even a picture... where are you?

Also Brinn has been relatively quiet toDay. But so far I have no idea. She looks reasonable but that's what she always does. And that really bothers me right now.



Then there are Rune, Sally, Shasta, Greenie and Ilya who are all falllng into my category "I really should pay more attention to them as they do actually post". Somehow my mind has been in other places (thanks Boro & tp :)). I'll promise to look at at least some of them tomorrow (the rep-day that is).


The people I have a "better" vision (meaning I think I have something) on remain.

Lommy looks and feels genuine, from her defence from Agan's attack to her frustration with Boro and tp toDay.

morm seems to enjoy a lot of trust in here. He looks almost botheringly innocent. But I must agree that he hasn't looked suspicious this far. I'd trust him but wouldn't make him a super-delegate anyway which he looks like be becoming if all those intending to vote him do that...

Nerwen is either a wolf or a victim of a nasty plot made by wolves. Her defences can be interpreted both ways. I have no clear feeling on her but if I'd had to be the one to vote the lynch at this moment I would probably try her (or then The Ka, just to be sure).


Boromir88 & the phantom then... Well, they could be anything, really. Two wolves, one wolf & one innocent, two innocents...

Somehow I'm thinking we should leave them for the seer - if they promise to not draw all the discussion on themselves from now on... :rolleyes:

I mean I see now I have used a lot of my time toDay looking at things relating to them. Some of them give me the creeps, some of them assure me of their innocence. But with 12 innocents against 4 wolves the ratio is quite good and we probably should not take rushed decisions with them.

But we shouldn't talk about them every Day and all the time either. At least I see I have failed in that toDay in a monstrous fashion.

[mormegil]

Right now, morm's making me uneasy. You avoided the confrontation too easily. What I remember of you morm is you're not only sensible, but a strong player, in the sense that you don't back away easily. I liked your points against Nerwen yesterday, but today you started efforts against tp and myself, which doesn't mean you're a wolf, but you shied away from that confrontation too easily. When I challenged you as to why I suddenly leapfrogged tp in your suspicions, you put on the brakes again. It looks like you're making sense by continually making points on your suspects, but when challenged, you don't want to go through with it, you don't pursue your suspicions any further.

I'm sorry Boro I don't follow you here? I haven't backed down against you, I simply voted for my rep and got busy with other things. As to why you leaped frogged phantom on my list I would say you leap frogged a whole host of people on my list, including my previous top suspect, Nerwen. I still suspect others that I've mentioned, namely Nerwen, Nogrod, Ilya and phantom. I have no other explination than you stand out as the most likely of the 5 to be a wolf. If I were to pick between you and phantom, assuming only 1 is a wolf, you seem to be the one who would be the wolf and using the phantom relationship to your advantage.

[Boromir88]

If I were to pick between you and phantom, assuming only 1 is a wolf, you seem to be the one who would be the wolf and using the phantom relationship to your advantage.~morm
Or I challenged you to defend your answer, and after you were called out for trying to say I was backstabbing tp, you skirted away. Well until now, that I have directly called you out on it.

But, now I must do the skirting away as I'll be back in a couple hours. ;)

[Kath]

And Nog is telling me to post more ... all is right with the world. :D

But all is not right with my internet. I'm really loathe to do this but I think I'm going to have to simply vote for a Rep, shut the computer and internet down for the night and hope it sorts itself out for tomorrow because it's currently taking between 5 and 10 minutes to load a page and that's when it doesn't time itself out.

++NOG for Rep

Yes, yes, faint in shock at the thought of my trusting the ever-suspicious Nogbod, but I have actually come to terms with the fact that I think he's innocent. There are a few others I might have voted for. phantom is one (loving the tummy thing btw morm, it makes me laugh every time I see it!), Lommy is another. But toDay I'm going with Nog, I think it's good for me to get over this 'it's Nog! He must be evil' thing and this is as good a way as any.

[mormegil]

Or I challenged you to defend your answer, and after you were called out for trying to say I was backstabbing tp, you skirted away. Well until now, that I have directly called you out on it.

But, now I must do the skirting away as I'll be back in a couple hours. ;)

I'm sorry Boro but you are not making any sense to me on this. It seems fairly knee-jerk and grasping at straws all at once.

[Brinniel]

tp and Boro really are bothering me. And it's not just the buddying up business....I agree this ploy thing is getting annoying. It's like saying, "Look what I did, I'm so helpful to the village. I'm an absolute genius compared to the rest of you who didn't even attempt any ploys." And then when people start to suspect them, they react like, "Why are you suspecting me? You should be thanking me." It's such arrogant behaviour. And if they really were innocent, why even mention that they successfully set up a ploy? What's done is done and I don't see a reason why anyone else should know about the ploy, especially if you intend to trap the wolves again.

tp and Boro are distracting, and I just can't see why someone who is actually innocent would want to distract us from focusing on the wolves. I'm not so sure that both of them are wolves (though it's something they could certainly pull off), but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if one them is a baddie.

EDIT: X-ed since #932

[Gwathagor]

Gwath I'd just like to see more. I have no clear picture of him. Sometimes I think not even a picture... where are you?


Directing a play i.e. super busy!

[the phantom]

The Rep votes thus far-

morm for Lommy
Green for morm
Lommy for Shasta

Thus far only those who are suspicious of Boro and I have gotten votes. What I must ponder is this- are the WWs driving this bus, or have Ordos been swept into the Wolf plot so much so that they are driving this thing?

Just to help everyone order their thoughts, here are the facts.

Boro and I are displaying trust for each other and are attempting to work together. This is where all of the suspicion stems from.

Fact: We are both likely to be correct given the simple odds to begin this village.

Fact: We are extremely familiar with each other, and I at least have shown a great ability to read him in the past, pegging him quite often on Day 1 as Ordo or Wolf.

Fact: The ploys that we were doing can be seen quite clearly in hindsight and their workings explained logically.

Given the facts of the situation, it hardly seems logical that the village would swing against us. In addition please consider this VERY IMPORTANT POINT which I've been just itching to bring up-

What is the number one reason for someone to trust someone else?

Answer- you are the Seer and have dreamed that person an Ordo.

Then why is the common logic being spread about that this trust means that there must be something devilish going on? Beware! You are being lead astray by this thinking!

You would think that if someone truly had the best intentions of the village in mind, the first thing that would come to mind with Boro and I would be, "Crap! One of them is the Seer and they've dreamed about the other one. The Wolves are going to spot that and take them out!" How is it that this basic thought proccess has been completely swept under the rug?

[Gwathagor]

Given the facts of the situation, it hardly seems logical that the village would swing against us. In addition please consider this VERY IMPORTANT POINT which I've been just itching to bring up-

What is the number one reason for someone to trust someone else?

Answer- you are the Seer and have dreamed that person an Ordo.



The other situation in which it is possible to have complete certainty regarding another player's role is if you are both wolves. I am not arguing that this is the case with you and Boro, but it is just as likely a possibility as one of you being a Seer. In that situation, only one can trust the other, and not vice-versa.

[Brinniel]

Just a real quick summary of my thoughts:

Suspicious
Boromir88
the phantom

Semi-Suspicious
Nerwen
Nogrod

No Clue
Ilya
Rune
Greenie
Gwathagor
mormegil

Innocentish
Kath
Sally
Shasta
Lommy

Where did they go?
Gil-Galad
Ka

As of now, I'm most interested in voting Shasta or Lommy as my rep. Of those from my innocent list, it is those two that I trust the most.

[the phantom]

I agree this ploy thing is getting annoying. It's like saying, "Look what I did, I'm so helpful to the village. I'm an absolute genius compared to the rest of you who didn't even attempt any ploys."
Hmm... I don't recall that either of us said that. I did express surprise that I was being suspected apparently because I was actively trying to achieve something. But the way you said it- it provokes negative emotions. And that doesn't help anything. So if you were in some way offended by anything you read, try to become unoffended quickly. For no offense was intended, and being in an aggravated state does not aid clear thinking.
And then when people start to suspect them, they react like, "Why are you suspecting me? You should be thanking me."
Well if we're telling the truth, then it's true, isn't it?

And the reason we discussed the ploy with each other was simply to see if we were on the same page. Building trust! You people wonder why we're trusting each other? Um, maybe because we're doing things to build trust.
tp and Boro are distracting, and I just can't see why someone who is actually innocent would want to distract us from focusing on the wolves.
Yeah, the only reason that we're the focus is because the rest of you people have made us the focus. We can't do it ourselves.

We were just going along doing our bit for the cause and suddenly we're jumped on for doing our bit. It makes little sense, and I agree with you that we're distracting. But guess what- it has nothing to do with us. Others have made us the focus.

[the phantom]

In that situation, only one can trust the other, and not vice-versa.
Not if the other figures out what has happened.

[Gwathagor]

tp and Boro are distracting, and I just can't see why someone who is actually innocent would want to distract us from focusing on the wolves. I'm not so sure that both of them are wolves (though it's something they could certainly pull off), but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if one them is a baddie.



Could you give an example of how they are distracting?

[Brinniel]

Could you give an example of how they are distracting?
The entire village is keeping focused on those two. If they are both innocent, there are four wolves out there we're not paying attention to. If one or both of them are wolves, there are still two or three other wolves hiding among us. Let's not forget about that.

[the phantom]

Somehow I'm thinking we should leave them for the seer - if they promise to not draw all the discussion on themselves from now on...
We're not trying to draw the discussion to us. I think the focus on us is silly. If people truly feel we're a distraction, how about they stop talking about us? No, that'd be too easy.

I agree about leaving us to the Seer. The Seer will die eventually. When he/she does, it'll be obvious what I am. Perhaps Boro as well.

[Gwathagor]

Maybe the Seer has already dreamed of one of you. It has been several Nights already.

[Boromir88]

The only one who's still sticking to the distraction is you Brinn. I've moved on and began to question morm.

[Gwathagor]

Ok, dinner-time for me. I'll be back to vote for my Rep later.

[Boromir88]

Oh, I may be arrogant right now, Brinn, but when this is over you'll be thanking me and I will be accepting of any apologies. :D

[the phantom]

Maybe the Seer has already dreamed of one of you. It has been several Nights already.
I said earlier that the Seer had dreamt of me already. I'm serious here, Gwath- I'd bet my entire Werewolf career on it.

I'm not sure if Boro has been done yet as the day is not over yet (and thus potential hints have not finished coming out), but if not I'd bet he's the dream tonight.

[Boromir88]

are the WWs driving this bus, or have Ordos been swept into the Wolf plot so much so that they are driving this thing?~the phantom
It's wolf driven, mark my words. There may be innocent bystanders tagging on, but it's wolf-driven. I just hope it doesn't take your death to prove it. I would much prefer to keep you alive longer, but of course you may be a marked man now.

[Boromir88]

I'm sorry Boro but you are not making any sense to me on this. It seems fairly knee-jerk and grasping at straws all at once.~morm
You would like to think that wouldn't you? But, the truth is morm, I've figured you out haven't I? I want you to become a rep, I want to see what you do. I want to see if you have the spine to actually lynch me. You certainly won't come after me at night, I know that. But you're faced with a dilemma because you can't have me lynched so soon either, or it will all come crashing down. ;)

[Nogrod]

Oh my. I lost a whole post as my online time went out in the neighbourhood pub I was doing this... it went over with three minutes so at the moment I posted it the post just vanished... :confused:

Okay. I'm home now and need to be quick. I mean there are new things I feel I have to open my mouth on, really.


tp whatever you are and whatever are your ways I'm thinking you're going a bit off limits very soon. I mean just look at these few from your latest posts.

I did express surprise that I was being suspected apparently because I was actively trying to achieve something.

And then when people start to suspect them, they react like, "Why are you suspecting me? You should be thanking me."
Well if we're telling the truth, then it's true, isn't it?

And the reason we discussed the ploy with each other was simply to see if we were on the same page. Building trust! You people wonder why we're trusting each other? Um, maybe because we're doing things to build trust.
You know tp that none of these have nothing to do with "clear thinking" you're calling after or are in no way discernible to anyone outside your own head. You call for people to trust you with these!

Why should Greenie trust you? Or Gwath? Or Nerwen? Think of anyone of us others (fex. one of the named above) saying one of these lines and think how you would react? Try it even once...

So you're not satisfied with those arguments? Not satisfied because it was the wrong person saying it? Let me tell you a secret, one doesn't know your role in advance so you might be a goodie or a baddie - like anyone around here. So a person is not the one thing you can trust but the argument. Still you think we should just ignore the non-existant quality of the ones you just produced and then you think you're rightfully annoyed if some people protest?

You can be tp whatever you wish to be but you should admit you're the extreme submarine - compared to whom Gil-Galad and The Ka are loud and clear! :D

Remember I said I will be judging you on how you behave this Day as it might be your last Day. You're not delivering my friend. You're still producing more chaos around with your reckless argumentation.

I don't know if you are a wolf or a sheep but you manage to make everything a mess - just look at toDay. Remember tp, it's not only whether you're right or not about things but whether what you do aids the village or not (and if you're a wolf then...).

I mean your possibly excellent strategies, if they get you lynched then it's one less possibility for the village to get a wolf lynched.

Your somewhat arrogant "reasonings" (look above for citations) steal all the room as people think whether you have good intentions or not - and the village fails once again as they have no time to concentrate on other things.

You may be right but you ruin the things for those you supposed to be fighting for.


You know your Days are ended either by the seer or the wolves pretty soon so please start to actually think if you're an innocent - and if not, then I'm not going stand in the way of your lynching.

You have something like 28 hours to prove yourself.

Haha, sounds like I had some authority over things... :rolleyes:

[mormegil]

You would like to think that wouldn't you? But, the truth is morm, I've figured you out haven't I? I want you to become a rep, I want to see what you do. I want to see if you have the spine to actually lynch me. You certainly won't come after me at night, I know that. But you're faced with a dilemma because you can't have me lynched so soon either, or it will all come crashing down. ;)

I will gladly vote for you if I am elected. As I've stated I think you are a wolf. This cock-sured attitude of yours. The way you buddied up. All of these ploys that you've set up and hide behind. You are brazen my friend and I've played with you enough to know not to ever trust you at your word. You are far too clever for that. Now that you are under scrutiny you turn tail (yes that was an intentional reference) and begin lashing out at your primary accuser.

So I want to see if you have the spine to vote for me as rep so that I can vote for you.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Don't make me a rep, or I'll be tempted... *evil grin*

Done.

++Lommy for Representative

:D

...Okay. All jesting aside, the two I trust most in this village today are Lommy and mormegil. I'd vote for both of you if I could, but I only have one vote.

Lommy, I may come across as spiteful sometimes, but I don't mean to. I am genuinely angry at Phantom for getting Aganzir killed; I don't really see any gray area here, Aganzir was innocent, Phantom (and to a lesser extent, Boromir got her killed, intentional killing of an innocent is not thereof the action of an innocent. But I wouldn't spite-vote him. I'd be as objective about my vote as possible.

[Nogrod]

Adding to my last one.

Please tp see my point. You've played with Boro before a lot and you share a long history and I can imagine how you might try to find a common chord (and it sure might be more of the person than the arguments in that case). But if that search makes two thirds of the village wishing to lynch you - taking it you're innocents - you're not helping but distracting. Do you get what I mean?

And your trust may be statistically believable as you say, but if you two are trying to build trust how come you make arguments on statistical probabilities. Isn't trust just the opposite of statistics?

[the phantom]

I have a long reply to you coming, Nog. Your reasoning is perplexing to me. But you'll see what I mean...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I have a long reply to you coming, Nog. Your reasoning is perplexing to me. But you'll see what I mean...

It looks pretty simple to me. If the village wants to lynch you, given that you're innocent, you're a "lynching distraction". Kind of odd given that you got Agan killed for that exact reason, :p.

[Ilya]

I'm here, I'm here! I'm only on page 22, but I'm here.

Post forthcoming.

[Boromir88]

Why should Greenie trust you? Or Gwath? Or Nerwen? Think of anyone of us others (fex. one of the named above) saying one of these lines and think how you would react? Try it even once...~Nogrod
Because instead of looking at the hard evidence that we have so far (the kills), you all want to focus on that since tp and I are working well together we have to be wolves. We absolutely, without question have got to be wolves, and we have to be running this village into the dirt.

The fact that this got blown out of proportion was in no way my doing. When others asked and began suspecting me, I answered. It has nothing to do with arrogance, or saying I'm better than anyone else because I do all these tricks and traps, that's how this became a focus. Not me, not the phantom.

I told you what I was doing, you take it or leave it, but you better stand by your decision when it's time and it's proven I was right about tp. I will make you eat a toaster by golly, watch and wait.

Let me ask you how do you know we're making a mess of this? How do you know what the outcome's going to be? We haven't gotten there yet. The only way I survive in this place is to get into the wolves heads (when I'm innocent), if that gets under your skin you'll just have to deal with it.

How do I know tp and I have gotten into the wolves' heads? The seer is still alive correct. This isn't won on lynching one or two innocent's the first couple days, it isn't even won by lynching two wolves the first two days. It's not won by 7 ordos against 1 wolf. When there is one seer, it is won by the seer alone. Period. And we have to give him/her as many days as possible, as many dreams as possible. If that means I have to make myself a distraction early on, to get the seer to dream of me and then know who's side I'm on and what I'm doing, than I'll do it. If it means getting the wolves to go after other targets at night, maybe tricking them into believing I'm the seer, or Agan is, than I'll do it. That's how we win. End of story.

I mean your possibly excellent strategies, if they get you lynched then it's one less possibility for the village to get a wolf lynched.
I will be dead before I see the ring in the - oops wrong movie. I will be dead before I allow tp to be lynched.

So I want to see if you have the spine to vote for me as rep so that I can vote for you.~morm
You're right, I don't. ;)

[Nogrod]

morm for Lommy
Green for morm
Lommy for Shasta
Kath for Nogrod
Shasta for Lommy2

I would feel that my vote would go to the most genuine person if I voted for Lommy. But I will not do it as she is already chosen and I do not think we're in a situation where testing someone's super-delegate powers would be in place.

Somehow I'm not ready to try morm either. I'm tempted though, for curiosity that is, but I think we'd need a more neutral character here.

That leaves me Kath basically. I know she has a cool mind and I'd wish to see her in the delegation to balance this black and white -looking situation. Once again it's half trust, half curiosity. I think we can afford yet another try for that.

And I think she hasn't made a comment on Boro and tp for a few Days now so she might have fresh eyes for that.

++ Kath for representative

[the phantom]

Nogrod- that was a long post, and I can't really find the point of it. Well no- I can find the point that you are attempting to make, but I'm not sure how any of it applies to anything that's been said.
You know tp that none of these have nothing to do with "clear thinking" you're calling after or are in no way discernible to anyone outside your own head. You call for people to trust you with these!
You said this in reference to some quotes that I made, and I'm not sure how it applies. Let's list these quotes and go through them one by one.
I did express surprise that I was being suspected apparently because I was actively trying to achieve something.
In this quote I was responding to Brin after she gave a mock quote from Boro and I painting us as very arrogant and mean and insulting to others. In my response, I am telling her what the feeling was behind any statement that I had made, and making it clear that it was not mean-spirited.

So I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to prove with that quote.
And then when people start to suspect them, they react like, "Why are you suspecting me? You should be thanking me."Well if we're telling the truth, then it's true, isn't it?
In this quote, I am logically pointing out that what she has said about us would be perfectly true if we were innocent, and thus it didn't seem correct that it would be brought up as a point against us.

Once again, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to prove with that quote. It seems pretty logical to me.

And the final quote-
And the reason we discussed the ploy with each other was simply to see if we were on the same page. Building trust! You people wonder why we're trusting each other? Um, maybe because we're doing things to build trust.
Once again, this quote is fairly straightforward. Brin said that Boro and I should never have brought up the ploy. I respond, giving her the reason that we did discuss it- to build further trust. A logical answer to the question, is it not?

So, seeing as all three quotes you gave were perfectly sensible and addressed specific points in the posts of others, I can hardly see how anything negative can be attributed to them. You say they were low quality, but I fail to see the reasoning. And has not the logic of a great many of my answers today showed quite clearly that those that suspect me have huge gaping holes in their arguments? Far worse than any you've shown in mine.

And I notice that you have not commented whatsoever on some of my extremely sensible posts. I even laid out your "chess match" for you, and asked your opinion, but you ignored it.

It seems to me that you are reading only what you wish and grasping desperately at straws. I am not the one who is "not delivering".
And your trust may be statistically believable as you say, but if you two are trying to build trust how come you make arguments on statistical probabilities. Isn't trust just the opposite of statistics?
You know good and well that the statistics have nothing to do with our trust. I've only brought up statistics in order to logically demonstrate to others why they shouldn't be so hasty to assign Wolfishness to our trust.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So I've been asking myself, "Is there anything wrong with wanting to affect the wolves' kill?"

Answer: no.

Only problem is, the wolves aren't going to kill a wolf. In a game with one team, an innocent is going to die at night.

So, assuming Phantom and Boro are innocent (which I'm still not ready to admit to)....

I suppose, from the point of logic, it was a sound plan. I still don't think it was at all fair to Agan (and Boro, seeing as how you were one of the people who made it happen, it's probably not your place to say "Oh, Agan's fine with it, in fact she's honored" when she's probably rolling in her grave right now), but I can't find anything wrong with it from a factual, coldly logical standpoint.

I'm a very sympathetic WW player, though (much like Rikae seems to be), so I'm still mad about it. :mad:

[the phantom]

intentional killing of an innocent is not thereof the action of an innocent.
You're missing the point, buddy.

An innocent is going to die. Every Night. It's a guarantee. There's no way to stop it from happening.

The best an Ordo can do is try and keep the WWs from making the best possible kill.

EDIT: It's not nice. I'm not saying that. I feel bad about it. But sacrifices must be made. And I don't think there's any way we're going to kill the Werewolves with kindness.

[Gwathagor]

Nogrod- that was a long post, and I can't really find the point of it. Well no- I can find the point that you are attempting to make, but I'm not sure how any of it applies to anything that's been said.

I understood part of his point to be that if the village finds you suspicious, then you're doing something suspicious - protests and ploys notwithstanding. You have a responsibility to play in a way that conforms to the system of popular suspicion that rules Ww, so if you are attracting too much attention, then either change or defend yourself just like all the other players. Don't ask players to take your innocence for granted.

I hope I am not misrepresenting you, Nogrod.

For the record, everyone, I myself do not yet have a position on the phantom-Boro thing. I'm just trying to help keep the discussion going for now.

[the phantom]

so if you are attracting too much attention, then either change or defend yourself just like all the other players.
1) The attention I am getting is likely Wolf-driven, and you cannot defend against those who do not wish to be swayed. (though that could be said of some Ordos as well)

2) I have defended myself. Quite nicely. I've given perfectly logical explanations for every behavior in question. Any honest reason for suspicion that anyone has been able to come up with has been addressed. But the same points just get raised again, as if I never answered.
I'm just trying to help keep the discussion going for now.
That's part of the whole problem, though.

If people would just go back with an open mind and read one after the other each of my posts this day, this discussion would not have to continue, with the same points repeated again and again.

If I continue being a distraction, it is no fault of my own. There are four people who wish me to be a continued distraction, and they are the ones driving this, and unfortunately they are managing to tug others along for the ride.

[Ilya]

Thoughts, questions, and concerns.

The Great Boro/Tummy Alliance
You know what? Say I that I buy it. They're drawing fire. They want to see who jumps on their open declaration and raises the suspicion. One might get lynched but then the other will take up the charge the next Day and flush out all the WWs. Sweet.

And if they're wolves, you know, then it's just going to be inevitable. I'll be smoking a cigar and they'll break into my room and I'll gruff, "It was only a matter of time" before they throw me out a window. (Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?) I joke, because I have no idea what this alliance does for them as wolves, other than allow them to work together openly, which they've pretty much been doing anyway.

I didn't catch the seer ploys put out by either of them, though. The quotes that they brought up seemed to me to be not that significant, and now they have complete deniability for anything that they say because they can just go, "It's a ploy! Jeez,Ilya, shut up and let us help the village, why don't you?" That gives me pause. They've been going after those who're questioning them with a snideness, and it's that tone more than anything that makes y'all seem arrogant and suspicious. Look, guys, be patient. I don't get it. I don't get what this gets us if you're innocent other than one of you lynched and the other silenced during the Night. If you want me to trust you, and I'm inclined to, just try and be a little patient with us, is all.

I'm not ready to lead either one of them to the oaks quite yet. I want to see how this develops.

Ordinary People
I have a feeling Gil's not playing anymore. That, or he's the ultimate submarine!
Lommy keeps speaking sense.
Sally, I don't have a read on yet.
Everything Kath has said feels on the level.
Rune, too, feels genuine.
So does Greenie.

Boys Becoming Men, Men Becoming Wolves
My initial, gut suspicions were of Agan, Brinn, Morm, and Nerwen. Even though I've already been proven wrong, they still hold. I'm less suspicious of Brinn, though, and more of the other two.
Shasta jumped on The Alliance with a lot of relish today.
Nogrod has phrased things in ways that are weird. I think the concerns raised about a "lynching distraction" are legit, whether Nog's a concerned citizen or a wolf trying to take the high road. I dunno which.
Gwath, while discussion is a good thing, there ought to be an aim when one tries to direct it. Maybe it's just the way you phrased the sentence, but it sounded like you wanted to further the distraction without planting a flag on either side.

I've no idea what I want to do about reps. I'd like to see what Rune would bring to it, since he hasn't had a turn yet, and I want to see more of Kath. I want to see more of Shasta, but I'm not sure if I can trust him, so I don't want to vote for him, and then there's Uncle Boro and T.P. John Bull over there, trying to show us they're fighting the good fight...I need some time away from the screen and mug of strong tea to think about it.

Edit: [b][b]/ is not the right code.

[Gwathagor]

Gwath, while discussion is a good thing, there ought to be an aim when one tries to direct it. Maybe it's just the way you phrased the sentence, but it sounded like you wanted to further the distraction without planting a flag on either side.


Ok, that's fair. My post does kind of sound like that.

[Nerwen]

Hi, I'm just halfway through reading toDay's posts. I'll get back to you.

[the phantom]

They've been going after those who're questioning them with a snideness, and it's that tone more than anything that makes y'all seem arrogant and suspicious.
See, I'm not sure where this "snideness" and such that people are seeing is coming from.

The closest thing to it that I've done is rolled my eyes at two different conclusions people keep coming to-
1) They're working together. There must be a Wolf involved.
2) I don't like ploys.

Neither of those opinions make logical sense in regards to assigning guilt to someone, so surely you can understand my disbelief when I see it again and again.

And as far as saying we're "arrogant"- I have seen confidence on display (in the sense that we're confident in our opinions), but nothing that should insult people the way full blown arrogance would.
If you want me to trust you, and I'm inclined to, just try and be a little patient with us, is all.
I've spent the majority of the day giving the same rational reasoning over and over. Trust me- I'm being as patient as I can be.

And if you are inclined to trust me, you and others had better seriously think about giving me some Rep power to defend myself with.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Y'all think this is them being arrogant? That's funny.

[THE Ka]

About Nogrod: I cannot put my finger on it, but something seems different about him in this game. I don't know if it is just because he has been more or less ignoring my existance or there is something more sinicter behind.

I'd have to agree entirely, I finally had time toDay to scan over two days worth of chatter (weekends are my longest hours, because my work knows I don't have any small children or other 'important' responsibilities to prevent them from doing so:rolleyes:) and think about it at work and Nogrod is a bit too fluffy than normal. Whether he is a wolf or innocent, he's not as quick to join in what otherwise would be a normal Nog activity. Otherwise than him deciding to try a different tactic this game around, he seems more friendly than usual, even as a representative.

EDIT: It's not nice. I'm not saying that. I feel bad about it. But sacrifices must be made. And I don't think there's any way we're going to kill the Werewolves with kindness.

Definitely, because they're enjoying the fact that everything is going too smooth already. Which would explain what looks like progress and reason on our end of things still turns up dead innocents on both voting groups. The only good thing so far is that the wolves are obviously still scratching around for the Seer.
If anything the wolves are counting on our 'kindness' to keep the dirty business of killing by Day easier so that they can spend more time on their Seer mission, the only saving grace is that our Seer is being crafty and laying low so even if we don't get anywhere, our Seer might.

One thing we need to remember is, there are only so many innocents before either parties hit a wolf or forbid, a seer. It's frustrating now because seriously, this game's progress reminds me of a completely sober version of musical chairs.


I'm hung on who I would like to see as a rep this time around, taking into account what obviously has become a normal game pattern. I'm going to go and read some more while I still have time.

~ Ka

[the phantom]

and it's that tone more than anything that makes y'all seem arrogant and suspicious.
Ah, I forgot to make another point about this.

What does arrogance have to do with guilt?

Or let's say I was walking around calling everyone names and being a jerk. If that was the case, I would ask, what does even being a jerk have to do with guilt?

I believe that many people are allowing annoyance to play a part in their decision. Remember, we're trying to kill Wolves! That is the one and only point of this village. I don't care how mean or rude or anything someone acts- all that matters is the liklihood of them being a Werewolf. That's all.

In addition, people being annoyed with Boro and I for all of this seems rather silly, as the two of us are about the only two people who aren't actively trying to focus things on us. Trust me- we'd much rather you looked elsewhere.

[Boromir88]

I didn't catch the seer ploys put out by either of them, though.~Ilya
My joke about why I didn't support filibusters. I said I had a strange dream about tp blocking my vote. Maybe it was too obvious, but I liked it. :D

If you want me to trust you, and I'm inclined to, just try and be a little patient with us, is all.
I thought I had done so, but I echo what tp said, nothing is ever met to cause offense. I encouraged Greenie yesterday, and have others today, to question. Trust me that's a good thing.

I'm not saying tp, nor me, nor Nogrod nor any one person are the only one's capable of getting wolves lynched. Everone's got a part to play, this is how I do it. I know we have to keep the seer alive as long as possible, to have a fighting chance, in the mean time let's do what we can to also find wolves. There's still a lot of game left to be played. ;)

[Boromir88]

I would ask, what does even being a jerk have to do with guilt?~tp
Good point, it's really the one's who try to tip-toe around and keep the peace with everyone that you have to watch out for.

Those who call a spade a spade, and do not fear the repercussions are most likely innocent, they don't have anything to hide. The wolves do.

[the phantom]

Good point, it's really the one's who try to tip-toe around and keep the peace with everyone that you have to watch out for.

Those who call a spade a spade, and do not fear the repercussions are most likely innocent, they don't have anything to hide. The wolves do.
Amen, bro.

EDIT: Oops, I just agreed with you. That's very suspicious. :D

[Brinniel]

As of now, I believe these are the ones with rep votes:

Lommy 2
morm
Shasta
Noggie
Kath

Lommy has already been made a rep, so I will vote:

++Shasta for rep

Because right now I find him pretty innocent and I'm curious to see what he does in a position of power.

[THE Ka]

I’ve seriously given it some thought, and I’m going to have to vote for Greenie this time around. Echoing the concerns of Boro88 and tp, our wolves are obviously enjoying the fact that we’re all sitting around on our thumbs and trying to come up with some clues to vote for whom and why. It might put our seer in a different position by taking a different approach, but sometimes it’s needed to stroke the fire a bit.
With this in mind, and from past experience of playing with her, I can see her as being a much needed catalyst to at least getting a clear view on what so far looks like a mundane haze. So, I’m electing Greenie because I know she’ll poke better than the Spanish inquisition. The only thing I’m hoping for is that the other possible reps will try to act differently as well.

Trust me- we'd much rather you looked elsewhere.

If I felt like starting a joke wheel I could make a pun of this:Merisu:, but tp does bring up a good point. The only reason why they both appear in the spotlight and ‘annoying’ is because its more convenient for the wolves to have us babbling over whether to vote B88 or tp, or which one is a ‘wolf’ than pay any heed elsewhere. If the voters are looking somewhere else, their reps are looking somewhere else as well whether out of their own need or respect for their base.
It would be much harder for a wolf representative or other individual wolves to swing suspicion if we’re not looking at just two people, whether arguing such as Agan and Lommy were, or agreeing as B88 and tp appear to be.

++Greenie for Rep

~ Ka

[the phantom]

Updated list-

Cleared of all charges-
the phantom

Off on a technicality-
Boro
Kath
Nog
Sally

Plea bargained-
Gil
Green
Gwath
Ilya
KA
Rune

On trial-
Brin
Lommy
morm
Nerwen
Shasta

[the phantom]

The votes thus far-

morm for Lommy
Green for morm
Lommy for Shasta
Shasta for Lommy (2)
Nogrod for Kath
Brin for Shasta (2)
The KA for Green

The Reps:

Lommy- 2
Shasta- 2

[Boromir88]

EDIT: Oops, I just agreed with you. That's very suspicious. :D~tp
That's nothing this is going to be the real kicker. Out of the choices I see I could vote for Nogrod or Kath as a representative.

But, I would really like to get you in there tp, if no one's willing to follow up, I will vote for someone else.

[Boromir88]

tp, post 934, Kath voted for Nogrod as rep. ;)

[the phantom]

After my readthrough of yesterday (that I did before this day started), I came into today wanting to give Nog a try. I may still do it.

But I will do what I must to protect myself and the people I believe to be innocent, and so my vote might go elsewhere against my initial leaning.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I can field that one. I gladly take credit for it. Earlier when I was commenting on his silliness I called him phantummy and then it went to tummy for short. I think we should all have a nickname, I'm just glad I have morm.
From now on you are known as Mormegeil, in short: Geil

We have 16 people in this village, 4 of them wolves.


Of these we have the quiet departement:

Gil-Galad whom I think is innocent but may not return to the game. Let's hope he does.

The Ka looks like the über-submarine. I might support her lynch toDay unless some real pressing RL reasons come to the surface.

Kath I'm very unsure of as she seems to trust me somewhat (at least the last time she was around of which some time has really gone) and I find it slightly suspicious. Maybe I should just start to learn to be a bit more grown-up and stop suspecting her everytime (I quess this is the second time I'm saying this; now what does it tell? :confused:). But she really should post more. I'm not inclined to suggest her lynching anyway, at this point at least.

Gwath I'd just like to see more. I have no clear picture of him. Sometimes I think not even a picture... where are you?

Also Brinn has been relatively quiet toDay. But so far I have no idea. She looks reasonable but that's what she always does. And that really bothers me right now.



Then there are Rune, Sally, Shasta, Greenie and Ilya who are all falllng into my category "I really should pay more attention to them as they do actually post". Somehow my mind has been in other places (thanks Boro & tp :)). I'll promise to look at at least some of them tomorrow (the rep-day that is).


The people I have a "better" vision (meaning I think I have something) on remain.

Lommy looks and feels genuine, from her defence from Agan's attack to her frustration with Boro and tp toDay.

morm seems to enjoy a lot of trust in here. He looks almost botheringly innocent. But I must agree that he hasn't looked suspicious this far. I'd trust him but wouldn't make him a super-delegate anyway which he looks like be becoming if all those intending to vote him do that...

Nerwen is either a wolf or a victim of a nasty plot made by wolves. Her defences can be interpreted both ways. I have no clear feeling on her but if I'd had to be the one to vote the lynch at this moment I would probably try her (or then The Ka, just to be sure).


Boromir88 & the phantom then... Well, they could be anything, really. Two wolves, one wolf & one innocent, two innocents...

Somehow I'm thinking we should leave them for the seer - if they promise to not draw all the discussion on themselves from now on... :rolleyes:

I mean I see now I have used a lot of my time toDay looking at things relating to them. Some of them give me the creeps, some of them assure me of their innocence. But with 12 innocents against 4 wolves the ratio is quite good and we probably should not take rushed decisions with them.

But we shouldn't talk about them every Day and all the time either. At least I see I have failed in that toDay in a monstrous fashion.


It is true that Morm has not gathered suspicion and that in it self is suspicious ergo Morm AKA Geil is a wolf!

Actually it has been bothering me that Morm has been regarted so innocent, but there really is very little reason to suspect him.
I said earlier that the Seer had dreamt of me already. I'm serious here, Gwath- I'd bet my entire Werewolf career on it.

I'm not sure if Boro has been done yet as the day is not over yet (and thus potential hints have not finished coming out), but if not I'd bet he's the dream tonight.
What makes you sure the seer has not dreamt about the more quiet people in our village?

EDIT: I forgot to type in one of the responses

[satansaloser2005]

++Greenie for rep



Didn't see that coming, did you? ;)

[the phantom]

Here's my Rep voting list from yesterday with votes from today added to those that have cast them.

Brin +++ Agan/Kath/Shasta
Boro +++ tp/Agan
Gil +++++ none/none
Green ++ Brin/morm/morm
Gwath ++ Nog/none
Ilya ++++ Boro/Rune
KA ++++ Boro/Lommy/Green
Kath +++ Lommy/Boro
Lommy ++ Ilya/Nerwen/Shasta
morm +++ Nog/Agan/Lommy
Nerwen ++ none/Lommy
Nog +++++ Ilya/Boro/Kath
Rune ++++ none/morm
Sally ++++ Legate/none/Green
Shasta +++ Agan/Nerwen/Lommy
tp ++++++ Legate/Kath

[satansaloser2005]

Here's my Rep voting list from yesterday with votes from today added to those that have cast them.

Brin +++ Agan/Kath/Shasta
Boro +++ tp/Agan
Gil +++++ none/none
Green ++ Brin/morm/morm
Gwath ++ Nog/none
Ilya ++++ Boro/Rune
KA ++++ Boro/Lommy/Green
Kath +++ Lommy/Boro
Lommy ++ Ilya/Nerwen/Shasta
morm +++ Nog/Agan/Lommy
Nerwen ++ none/Lommy
Nog +++++ Ilya/Boro/Kath
Rune ++++ none/morm
Sally ++++ Legate/none/Green
Shasta +++ Agan/Nerwen/Lommy
tp ++++++ Legate/Kath



Alternatively, it's Doctor Who, not Dr. Who. And I'm a-shakin' in my boots, my little accent challenged companion. :p

*runs to Canada before she gets roasted*

[Boromir88]

What makes you sure the seer has not dreamt about the more quiet people in our village?~Rune
That is possible, when I'm the seer sometimes I like to dream of those who I really will never have a clue about...whether that's because they're quiet, or they're just plain out sneaky. But, I also make sure I check bases with those who take a lead in the village.

The fact is the seer's had three dreams now, if tp wasn't one of them I'd be extremely shocked. You check base with the one's who take a lead, and therefor you can be sure what their intentions are. Now I also understand the current situation, there are 4 wolves, so if tp was a wolf, I wouldn't expect the seer to make a reveal, there's still lots of wolf-hunting to be done. But, I have yet to see a reveal, saying tp is a wolf, and I have yet to doubt his intentions, until then I will trust him.

[the phantom]

Alternatively, it's Doctor Who, not Dr. Who.
Ooh... Huge difference. :p
my little accent challenged companion
I think it's funny that the self proclaimed "Queen of the Midget People" would call someone "little".

[Boromir88]

Oh...

morm watch out I smell a back-stab on it's way:
Actually it has been bothering me that Morm has been regarted so innocent, but there really is very little reason to suspect him.~Rune
Just giving you the heads up buddy. :D

[Brinniel]

Ooh... Huge difference.
Actually, there is a huge difference. And if you had ever seen the show, you would know. :p

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Surprise, surprise, everyone who's not being a little drone and taking Phantom's innocence for granted is on his suspicious list. :smokin:

[the phantom]

What makes you sure the seer has not dreamt about the more quiet people in our village?
My friend, I said something to Lommy about this type of question earlier.

Such a query is akin to asking me, "Okay, who is the person that you think is the Seer who has dreamed of you?" or, "Okay, so are you maybe hinting that you are the Seer?" Though those interpretations are a bit extreme, you see what I'm driving at.

There's no true way I can directly answer a question about probable Seer dreams without pointing at potential Seers and potential Seer dreams and that sort of thing.

And so I must respectfully decline giving a full answer to that.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Oh...

morm watch out I smell a back-stab on it's way:

Just giving you the heads up buddy. :D

Here you go Morm, now send Boromir to the dark abyss that awaits him.

++MormeGeil for Representative

[the phantom]

Actually, there is a huge difference. And if you had ever seen the show, you would know.
Well, then Sally can explain it to me next time we visit. I already have too much info to process... Time Lords, planets, pepper shakers, multiple bodies, but still the same guy, and yet called by a different number, and something about two hearts... I'm lost.

[Nerwen]

Re: Boro and the phantom.

On the one hand, it is quite unreasonable of them to expect that they can act the way they're doing without being questioned, and the fact that they refuse to see this doesn't look good.

On the other hand–

I'd have been very suspicious if, in my absence, no-one had accused Boro... I mean, it's hard to claim you're being framed if no-one's framing you. (That's a thing that worried me about him on the McCaber issue.) But that's not what happened this time.

The fact that no-one else has defended either Boro or the phantom to speak of suggests to me that for them to be wolves, we must be dealing with a planned wolf-sacrifice situation.

So whatever they are, it follows that there are probably wolves among their accusers.

Therefore my vote will go to an independent, i.e. someone who hasn't taken sides on this issue.

EDIT: x'd since the phantom at #980.

[Boromir88]

On the one hand, it is quite unreasonable of them to expect that they can act the way they're doing without being questioned, and the fact that they refuse to see this doesn't look good.~Nerwen
And I repeat, I've encouraged Greenie to ask questions twice, I've answered what I did, tp's answered what he's done. And you wonder why we're so impatient. :rolleyes:

[Ilya]

My internet is shoddy at the moment, so I'm gonna just vote quick and hopefully I'll be able to get back into the discussion once it's recovered.

++Boro for representative

I still trust Boro more than Shasta, and I think Kath'll get in on her own. Let's see what the dynamic duo do with the power. And btw, tp, arrogance has nothing to do with guilt, but talking down doesn't win anyone to your argument. No reason you can't be civil, and I guess perhaps I'm taking seriously some stuff you don't mean in a malicious way.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I voted Morm insted of Kath, as I felt that I had more of an idea who he might vote for and I felt quite comfortable with the options.

I like Kath and feel good about her, but there are simply to many unknown factors about her and so I decided against her.


My bed calls.

[Boromir88]

Here you go Morm, now send Boromir to the dark abyss that awaits him.~Rune
Wow, Rune that's a strong statement...you want to place a bet behind it? That way it wouldn't just be empty words, but there will actually be something behind it? Do you have the spine, sir?