Tol-in-Guarhoth CIX - Ten Year Anniversary Game: Dead Thread [Archive] - Page 3

Nogrod

06-07-2015, 05:01 PM

Let's draw the basics for the old folks...

So Nerwen

1) Actually received the message she told she received and was true with it's content - whatever her own alignment. Thus we should trust both Lottie and Mac are wolves.

2) Actually received the message she told she received but was not true with it's content - because it implied herself or another one of her pack (which would be an interesting thing if the letter (PM) told her to refer it true - what kind of sanctions would breaking that kind of ruling by the mod have?). Thus we could probably trust she has Lottie correct (with her own admittance) but would be kind of in dark with Mac.

3) Is a lover with Sally and made it up to gain time - and happily managed to hit at least one wolf (Lottie, with her own admittance - wouldn't that be annoying Lottie?), but that wouldn't tell us anything about Mac - but maybe that lover-Nerwen probably suspected him seriously?

4) is the seer and gave everyone her two wolves as she saw it was time to do something. Thus we should trust both Lottie and Mac are wolves.

Something seems to be wrong in all the scenarios (except maybe the first)...

I mean could you disobey a clear rule in a game like this? Without sanctions? (2)

What is the idea of coming up with that kind of out of the blue scenario if you're a lover? There must be something I have missed with the arguments for this scenario. (3)

Why would the seer kind of reveal but yet not make it so the ranger would feel it her/his duty to protect her the next Night? Or is she counting on the wolves thinking that she's just an ordo with this kind of luck fallen on her and thus not worthy of killing? (4)

But then there is also the matter of this special role: if the special role is that someone get's the seer's dreams then who did the extra killing? Or is there a kind of merry-go-around -role when someone is for one day the seer-receiver, one is an assassin another etc.?

And what has all this to do with itching and scratching?

Nogrod

06-07-2015, 05:07 PM

Perhaps the power of the unknown role is he/she can take the Seer double-dream and have them sent to a random Living innocent on a night of his/her choosing. BUT, in order to make the power work correctly, the unknown has to correctly guess the Seer.

So, perhaps the Unknown believed Legate was the Seer and was about to die, and so chose to use the power. But because the Unknown incorrectly identified the Seer, the power still worked but as a consequence the dreams were sent to a Baddie.
OR as a consequence an innocent dream subject (Mac) was killed and labelled as guilty.
OR if Lottie is lying about the kill, the incorrectly guessed Seer (Legate) is killed and the dream is sent to a Baddie.If this is the correct version, I'll eat my hat... Oh, I don't have one - well the next time I meet tp I'll bow very low indeed and buy him a dinner. :rolleyes:

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 05:09 PM

3) Is a lover with Sally and made it up to gain time - and happily managed to hit at least one wolf (Lottie, with her own admittance - wouldn't that be annoying Lottie?), but that wouldn't tell us anything about Mac - but maybe that lover-Nerwen probably suspected him seriously? ... What is the idea of coming up with that kind of out of the blue scenario if you're a lover? There must be something I have missed with the arguments for this scenario. (3)
I'll take a very quick look at her and sally's posts to see if there's anything that would suggest this is the case.

Nogrod

06-07-2015, 05:20 PM

This option 3 is something I've seen people talk about (I don't remember who) and it kind of escapes me - like what's the point? Or where did this speculation come that Nerwen is a wolf? Surely she hasn't been in a position where she would have been forced to make that kind of thing up?

Anyway, bedtime for me too.

Looking forwards to seeing who can we share the company of come the Day.

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 05:36 PM

This option 3 is something I've seen people talk about (I don't remember who) and it kind of escapes me - like what's the point?
Buy one of them another day by making the wolves prioritise Nerwen over sally while simultaneously letting the Ranger know sally may need protection. It is a gamble though. But if this is the case, they managed to flush out a wolf nicely so I'm not complaining.

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 05:46 PM

NERWEN...

Mentions the lovers for the first time in her second post (it's always the case that signs of pack behaviour may point at the lovers as well).
Questions Firefoot's vote tying plan in #44 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=697125&postcount=44) partly because it may expose the lovers.
Says the NIGHT 2 narration indicates the lovers are still alive (this is like her fourth post).
Lottie calls morm highly suspicious for suspecting sally. Nerwen indirectly defends her, calling morm eyebrow raising rather than highly suspicious.
Asks if sally (or Boro) gave a reason for voting Nog on DAY 1.
Okay. So that’s what you are, Sally. Let me think about this.
We could certainly do with some information– and now the wolves will be searching frantically for Sally's lover, so the longer we delay her death the more chance she has of not getting resurrected at all. On the other hand, or paw, she isn’t a wolf. (At least, I don’t see why a wolf-Sally would be making a false reveal right now.)
Really hopes Kuru won't answer Nilp's question about the lovers' gender.
It was over 7 hours into the DAY before she started asking questions about Lottie and others.
Says the village need to think the lynching sally business over, and voting for her right now would be very suspicious. This a little before her reveal.

SALLY...

Before her reveal she didn't say anything about the lovers or about Nerwen.
Mentions they have a new plan to protect her lover and it requires the ranger.
Her belated DAY 1 commentary ends with: More on that in a bit. When last I read the thread, it sounded like Nerwen had something important to share, so I’ll check in on that and then sink my lack of teeth into Day 2 after I grab some lunch.
Explains to Lalaith Nerwen very rarely votes on DAY 1.

Not conclusive but nothing suggests they couldn't be lovers.

(Why did I spend half an hour on this at 3 in the morning?)

Rikae

06-07-2015, 05:50 PM

This option 3 is something I've seen people talk about (I don't remember who) and it kind of escapes me - like what's the point? Or where did this speculation come that Nerwen is a wolf? Surely she hasn't been in a position where she would have been forced to make that kind of thing up?

That she's a lover? I joked about it. Well, yesterDay, before Lottie confessed, I thought it might be some sort of lover-scheme, but that doesn't make sense now.

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 05:54 PM

That she's a lover? I joked about it. Well, yesterDay, before Lottie confessed, I thought it might be some sort of lover-scheme, but that doesn't make sense now.
I discussed it briefly shortly after Nerwen's reveal. Still don't think it's impossible.

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 05:56 PM

I took the phantom's list from a few days back and expanded it based on DAY 2 voting. DAY 3 votes don't tell us much - looking at people's suspicions might, but I don't have the time for it now.

Firefoot/Mac - dangerously placed vote, unless she'd decided to bus Mac.
Kath/Form - low-risk vote on DAY 1 but just not worth risking it.
morm/Lottie - Lottie voted morm early on DAY 2.
morm/Mac - a DAY 1 vote would be totally useless, voted Mac again DAY 2.
Nerwen/Mac - early DAY 2 vote, likely to be followed.
Shasta/Lottie - throwaway vote very late on DAY 2, but he was the first person to cast a vote for her.

DEAD:

Nog/Boro
Nog/phantom
Nog/Lottie
Nog/Eomer
Nog/Shasta

Rikae/Lommy

Rikae

06-07-2015, 05:56 PM

Buy one of them another day by making the wolves prioritise Nerwen over sally while simultaneously letting the Ranger know sally may need protection. It is a gamble though. But if this is the case, they managed to flush out a wolf nicely so I'm not complaining.

It seems, though, that it would have been too risky... what if Lottie had been gifted?

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 06:01 PM

It seems, though, that it would have been too risky... what if Lottie had been gifted?
Maybe they were just so sure of her guilt? I don't know though. It's just, if Mac is lying, he's doing a better job than I would have given him credit for (:p).

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 06:03 PM

Also, we're fewer than 70 posts from catching up with the Living thread!

I wonder who are joining us tonight. Not that I'll be here to see it until much later because I should be in bed right now. :smokin:

If it's Nerwen and she's not sally's lover, I'll feel extra dumb for staying up late to look at their posts. :D

Rikae

06-07-2015, 06:06 PM

I kind of had a feeling Boro and Nerwen had some kind of understanding yesterDay, so I went back over Nerwen's posts and noticed this:

#461 "By the way, didn’t Agan say something on Day One about how gifteds should signal to each other?"

And then a few posts later she links it, Agan's post #86:
" I wouldn't presume to advise the seer (still never having been one), but if they happen to dream of another gifted, establishing a connection (if it can be done discreetly enough not to endanger either party) might not be a bad idea at all. That way at least there'd be somebody to steer the village (discreetly or not) in the right direction at the event of the seer's death."

And then Nerwen says in #466
"Now, what do people think of our little snow flower, Lottie?"

And then Boro in #481
"Lottie, I haven't formed much of an opinion on, she's skating under my nose."

Snow flower? Skating?

Rikae

06-07-2015, 06:11 PM

Rikae

06-07-2015, 06:15 PM

65 posts in just under 2 hours... c'mon, dead folks, we can do it!

the phantom

06-07-2015, 06:27 PM

Ha ha, no, we don't have to pass them now! :D
We can keep close to them through the day and leave them eating dust tomorrow night. (Unless, for instance, Boro and Nerwen die tonight, in which case we'll pass them during the day quite easily I would guess.)

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 06:27 PM

Boro also "I'm feeling better about morm today"

but he didn't say anything about Mac.

"I've been in a deep slumber from any WW games until recently."

Anyway, looks like Nerwen was looking for confirmation from the seer before her reveal, and got it.
I'm not sure I see the connection. Something in Nerwen's phrasing caught my eye when she mentioned my idea of gifteds signalling each other, but I don't see how they could have reached an understanding in such a short time. Did Boro say anything about Nerwen before?

Aganzir

06-07-2015, 06:41 PM

Anyway, how about that summary post for the newly deceased?

Let me start.

Please tell us your role. Unless you're a gifted who's going back to the Living thread and you feel you'll get more information out of us by keeping it a secret.
Loslote is (obiously) a wolf.
Aganzir is the Hunter.
Greenie is prey.
Mac is possibly also a wolf and we're kind of working on that assumption but we're not sure. Because we're not sure Nerwen was telling the truth. Or are we? We're divided here.
Whether we're voting on role reveal or empowerment, let's try not to split the vote so the wolves can't hijack it. Because we don't know how many wolves there are, the known innocents (at the moment Agan and Greenie) will preferably lead the voting in order to avoid a tie.
When you die and enter this thread, phantom will tell you something totally unexpected but we swear it's 100% true.

Feel free to edit and add things... and quote it somewhere they can see it easily?

And it's bedtime for me.

the phantom

06-07-2015, 06:42 PM

I still think there's a solid possibility Mac was a wolf, so I'm happy enough with whoever offed him.
Macalaure (killed by ?) - would be my top pick for a wolf in this group
I was already inclined to vote for Lottie (in the absence of a lover scheme anyway) and this sort of seals the deal. I was already inclined to trust Nerwen, and the two people she named topped my suspect list anyway.
And then with what I said yesterday-
Firefoot could be a Wolf. Or Lottie could be painting her as a Wolf because she wants her pack to kill her but does not want the Ranger to protect her (i.e. she actually suspects her of being the Seer & the Legate-Seer thing is a clever ruse).
So if FF is the Seer maybe she received the guilty dreams as well and hopes Nerwen notes her agreement?

Anyway, just posting that to keep myself and others from allowing assumption to get in the way of seeing other possibilities however unlikely (I keep doing that- sort of burring what's actually known and what we have to assume for scenarios, heh).

Just about anything could be happening after the weird triple kill and transmitted dream. Can't wait to see what happens in the narration.

(x-post: you're wonderful, dear)

Loslote

06-07-2015, 06:56 PM

And then Nerwen says in #466
"Now, what do people think of our little snow flower, Lottie?"

And then Boro in #481
"Lottie, I haven't formed much of an opinion on, she's skating under my nose."

Snow flower? Skating?

'Loslote' is bastardized Elvish for snow flower. ;)

Rikae

06-07-2015, 07:18 PM

Still looks like a signal to me. Especially since, in his reply, Boro singled Lottie out with that "skating" phrase (which is weird sounding to me, at any rate), while lumping together a whole bunch of others (Lommy, Firefoot and Form) under "I still am getting a lost, don't have many clues feel"

It would also seem he dreamed Nilp and morm as innocents.

Rikae

06-07-2015, 07:30 PM

I'm not sure I see the connection. Something in Nerwen's phrasing caught my eye when she mentioned my idea of gifteds signalling each other, but I don't see how they could have reached an understanding in such a short time. Did Boro say anything about Nerwen before?

Basically, I think she grabbed his attention by talking about your gifted-signaling talk, and then he used the skating phrasing to confirm that the "snow flower" was a wolf...

I could be wrong about what's going on there, but I'm sure something's going on there. Nerwen seemed very pointed in those posts, and she replied to Boro's "skating" post with "Thank you. I want to hear from a few more people, though.".

Like I said, it struck me as weird yesterDay already, though I wasn't paying close attention.

the phantom

06-07-2015, 07:37 PM

Did I SERIOUSLY just watch/hear that. :eek: :(

(not referencing the game, I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about)

Rikae

06-07-2015, 07:50 PM

Did I SERIOUSLY just watch/hear that. :eek: :(

(not referencing the game, I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about)

If it's what I think, we'll find out after DL *makes popcorn*

So nobody spoil!

the phantom

06-07-2015, 07:58 PM

Okay, it's over here. And no spoilers, I promise. :cool:

Kuruharan

06-07-2015, 08:02 PM

The NIGHT passed slowly and with long debate.

The denizens flickered and darted trying to probe the natures of their neighbors.

They finally determined that in his former life Legate was Prey.

Then, the waiting, having little else to do, they spent the remaining time debating the events in the world of the Living.

The mists stirred, as all knew they would...

Firefoot and Lalaith were suddenly among them.

Somehow given the scale of the calamity besetting them, only having two new friends seemed like something of a blessing.

Was there even any cake left?

The Missing or Dead:
Kuruharan
Nogrod
the phantom
Rune Son of Bjarne
Aganzir
A Little Green (Prey)
Macalaure
Rikae
Legate of Amon Lanc (Prey)
Loslote
Firefoot
Lalaith

The Living:
Formendacil
satansaloser2005
McCaber
Boromir88
Nerwen
Thinlómien
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Kath

Illusion:
Gwathagor (Ordo)

Rikae

06-07-2015, 08:03 PM

Hello Firefoot and Lalaith! Welcome to the party (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uiYp8xKjLM)!

:D

the phantom

06-07-2015, 08:05 PM

Welcome to our new Dead! This is the cool thread. Obviously.

The first thing you need to know- my role is The Third Wheel. My goal is to hang around the Lovers and make them feel awkward. As you can imagine being in an entirely different thread makes it difficult to fulfill my purpose. Ah well...

Loslote

06-07-2015, 08:06 PM

Firefoot and Lalaith were suddenly among them.

Awww, my packmates sent me a present. <3

Kuruharan

06-07-2015, 08:06 PM

The first thing you need to know- my role is The Third Wheel. My goal is to hang around the Lovers and make them feel awkward. As you can imagine being in an entirely different thread makes it difficult to fulfill my purpose. Ah well...

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

This is, of course, totally true.:D

Rikae

06-07-2015, 08:07 PM

Our lovely hunter made a post to get you up to speed:

Anyway, how about that summary post for the newly deceased?

Let me start.

Please tell us your role. Unless you're a gifted who's going back to the Living thread and you feel you'll get more information out of us by keeping it a secret.
Loslote is (obiously) a wolf.
Aganzir is the Hunter.
Greenie is prey.
Mac is possibly also a wolf and we're kind of working on that assumption but we're not sure. Because we're not sure Nerwen was telling the truth. Or are we? We're divided here.
Whether we're voting on role reveal or empowerment, let's try not to split the vote so the wolves can't hijack it. Because we don't know how many wolves there are, the known innocents (at the moment Agan and Greenie) will preferably lead the voting in order to avoid a tie.
When you die and enter this thread, phantom will tell you something totally unexpected but we swear it's 100% true.

Feel free to edit and add things... and quote it somewhere they can see it easily?

And it's bedtime for me.

Edit: X'd with everyone since phantom's 100% true post

the phantom

06-07-2015, 08:07 PM

And by the way, we've figured out who is doing all the killing (https://youtu.be/o0u4M6vppCI?t=6s).

Rikae

06-07-2015, 08:14 PM

and by the way, we've figured out who is doing all the killing (https://youtu.be/o0u4m6vppci?t=6s).

:d

the phantom

06-07-2015, 08:14 PM

Lalaith and Firefoot- if I find out after the game that you've been entirely truthful to me in everything you say in this thread, I will have Mith and Sally send you some cookies.

the phantom

06-07-2015, 08:28 PM

Lalaith got killed because of this post-
Clicky-Clicky (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=697923&postcount=485)

Before the Nerwen reveal, but after she asked for feedback, Lal said she didn't like the two Wolves the dream gave us- Lottie and Mac. Thus, Wolves assume Lal could be the Seer.

Rikae

06-07-2015, 08:40 PM

So now somehow Firefoot is the only person who can make a list for the dead to communicate with? :rolleyes:

Sally... :mad:

Firefoot

06-07-2015, 08:52 PM

So now somehow Firefoot is the only person who can make a list for the dead to communicate with? :rolleyes:

Sally... :mad:
Of course, I'm indispensable. :p

Thanks for the summary, I was going to ask for it... the length of this thread is daunting. I'm a plain vanilla ordo whose hunches were apparently too good, for once (I guess I'm better at this game when I don't have enough time for it?).

the phantom

06-07-2015, 09:19 PM

I definitely would like to see Lalaith and Firefoot summarize themselves (suspicions & defenses through yesterday & theories on own deaths & new thoughts after being dead etc.).

Firefoot

06-07-2015, 09:50 PM

I literally have no idea what's going on anymore - I finished yesterDay thinking I was really on top of things and now... not so much.

I have no idea why Lottie jumped on me - yesterDay I thought it was because she legitimately thought I was a wolf from the other pack, but in this thread she confessed she lied about the lynching pattern. Both packs, of course, would know she had lied in that case... and the other pack would know I wasn't on their pack. I think I was probably taken out by Lottie's pack though.

Until you guys revealed that Greenie was innocent, I was also convinced she was one of Lottie's packmates, and that Legate was the seer, since it all seemed to line up so nicely (too nicely, I guess) - despite the fact that looking at them independently, I didn't think Greenie was suspicious or Legate was seerish. :rolleyes:

I've thought since Day 1 that Nerwen was a lover, which seems to line up with what you all were thinking here.

And if you think I over-reacted to Lottie yesterday... I was looking for good discussion all day and nobody was responding... Gah. Maybe I wouldn't be dead if I'd held my tongue. Maybe I still would be though. At least I was taken out by wolves and not the village, so that's a win for me I guess. :rolleyes:

I'm too tired to keep making sense, but I've at least skimmed the whole thread (glad to see a lot of it was fluffy).

Firefoot

06-07-2015, 09:51 PM

Also, given the posting rate of the village and the amount of false information we thought we'd figured out... my outlook for the village is bleak. :(

Loslote

06-07-2015, 09:55 PM

Firefoot

06-07-2015, 10:13 PM

Well, if Boro is telling the truth on his most recent post, it means both wolf packs had me killed last night. I feel so special. :Merisu: It also means I'm innocent, so there. :D

the phantom

06-07-2015, 10:17 PM

Or only one Wolfpack killed you and the other was blocked by the Ranger.

Firefoot

06-07-2015, 10:25 PM

phantom, you're a buzzkill. :p

the phantom

06-07-2015, 10:27 PM

Or the other Wolfpack also targeted Lalaith.

Or there is only one Wolfpack.

:p

the phantom

06-07-2015, 10:27 PM

Endless possibilities. We know nothing! :D

the phantom

06-07-2015, 10:30 PM

But time to actually get serious and try a bit of thinking. Need to see what if any implications there are with this Boro reveal...

Loslote

06-07-2015, 10:30 PM

Endless possibilities. We know nothing! :D

We can't even be pretentious philosophers about it, because we don't necessarily even know that we know nothing. The whole thing is just really bad. :p

the phantom

06-07-2015, 10:32 PM

I wonder if Boro has any extra abilities (kill only works when offing a Wolf? gets to scry? etc.).

I ask because the Lalaith kill might've been rather risky unless he knew something, given that she agreed with both of the Wolf-dreams even before Nerwen revealed them.

Loslote

06-07-2015, 10:51 PM

I wonder if Boro has any extra abilities (kill only works when offing a Wolf? gets to scry? etc.).

It looks like something of the kind, since he wasn't sure if he was, in fact, responsible for her death. He did ask the Dead thread to check her, though, so maybe it only works when offing someone with a special role (i.e., wolf or Gifted, in this game)? And that might explain why he chose Lalaith - he would've wanted to chose someone who could have been a wolf but could not have been a Gifted, and Lalaith would fit that description decently well.

the phantom

06-07-2015, 11:16 PM

I'm saying I'm responsible for the 3rd kill (Mac) on NIGHT 3, and that I also had a decision to make on to take someone else out last night, and decided Lalaith. But I have no way of confirming whether she's a wolf (and so I would request for the dead to check her on their next chance), or if I was wrong and one pack made the same selection.
Ah, I guess that can be taken for confirmation on how the role functions. It only works if he gets a Wolf.

That makes Mac a guarantee, but we don't know about Lalaith since there were only two kills.

Rikae

06-07-2015, 11:36 PM

So... done watching that awfulness. These days it's really only morbid curiosity that keeps me watching. Anyway...

Boro's reveal doesn't ring true. One or both of he & Nerwen are lying. Nerwen gets special dreams, plus Boro gets free wolf-assassinations? Nah, not buying that.

the phantom

06-07-2015, 11:43 PM

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:03 AM

Unless both strange events are a result of Boro. (Upon successful Wolf-kill the Seer's dreams go to someone else?)

But of course the more obvious possibility is that Nerwen pretended to be an Ordo receiving dreams to cover her own Seership.

Yes, but that wouldn't have helped her a whole lot... most likely the wolves would have gone for her anyway.
Which they may have even done, (if Boro does get to assassinate) and there was a ranger save. In which case, they're aware and will take her out toNight.

Hang on, going to look through yesterDay again...

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:25 AM

Boro #408

"I sure hope this special unknown role isn't some maniac assassin. It would be nice to have a weapon against the wolves that can bite them in the night, but it would be most dreadful if it was just kind of blind night-time killer. This could be a really quick game if there's 2 wolf packs, and a blood-thirsty night maniac. It begs the question is this only a once every other night killer? Or maybe that "individual itch" in the DAY 2 narration was the hint, that the target (either Rune or the phantom) was the same, and thus only 2 kills."

From yesterDay. So there's that.

Anyway, I've been looking for any mention of Lalaith (from Nerwen or Boro) and nada. Well, until Boro's "Lalaith? Puzzling. " toDay.

Why Lalaith, anyway? Eomer and Nilp seemed to be more on the radar as possible wolves.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:34 AM

Ok, Boro just now:

"someone who seemed to know too much, but I judged she wasn't the seer."

I assume this refers to Lal's post that phantom quoted as a possible reason the wolves would have killed her.

Anyway, I see Nerwen picked up on this:
"naming those three as looking innocent *could* have looked like a hint- but only to a pack that did not contain Macalaure. Now Lottiewolf says that Mac was one of her rivals, and that it was his pack, not hers, that killed Rikae."
So that's good.

the phantom

06-08-2015, 12:48 AM

Wait- Nerwen was trying to say that only a pack not containing Mac would think who was what? (edit: and because why?)

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:53 AM

Wait- Nerwen was trying to say that only a pack not containing Mac would think who was what? (edit: and because why?)

That I was the seer.

the phantom

06-08-2015, 12:56 AM

Oh, oh, got it. Mac's pack wouldn't have killed you for looking Seerish because that would've made Mac a dreamed innocent.

Sorry, sorry- had my mind stuck on something else. Apparently I'm more tired than I thought.

Okay, so yeah, like we were discussing, Mac & Lottie might be together, or she may have reversed their actual kills, etc. We don't know anything. :D

the phantom

06-08-2015, 01:00 AM

It is quite possible, though, that I was targeted. I haven't told you *everything* yet... :smokin:
Well, perhaps more interesting stuff coming. I'll check in once more before sleep.

Lalaith

06-08-2015, 01:01 AM

Why Lalaith, anyway? Eomer and Nilp seemed to be more on the radar as possible wolves.

Well quite. So here I am, a wronged ordo murdered by a seemingly self-confessed random assassin. Thanks for the summary Agan and thanks for the welcome, Phantom. In RL I am gulping tea and rushing off to work but will post more later.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:04 AM

Well here we go. Welcome our new tombmates. And it seems like we have things to address. Personally, I could believe Boro telling the truth - or at least truth in some modified form (maybe he's keeping something small to himself, but otherwise, fine). He dropped those comments before which might point to him being right. Also, what Rikae said about him and Nerwen possibly establishing some kind of connection, I don't see it as unlikely either.

I'm not sure I see the connection. Something in Nerwen's phrasing caught my eye when she mentioned my idea of gifteds signalling each other, but I don't see how they could have reached an understanding in such a short time.
They could have, if they both knew about it beforehand. I.e. if Nerwen's "dream" really came via a PM, the PM (even if it was sent through the Mod, as I would assume) might have been originally sent by somebody else. (As in, person 1 sends a PM to the Mod "I want to pass these two dreams of mine to a random villager" - would not even have to be specifically addressed to Nerwen, then the Mod passes it on.) In that case, both the sender and the receiver would know there is a person who communicates across the thread (especially a person who knows Lottie is a dreamed Wolf), and could specifically be looking for in-game signals.

Of course, that working with the assumption that Boro would have something to do with the "dream" as well (if such a thing even exists) - but maybe he is just a dirty lowly assassin (effective however :) )

As for the Living's idea to check Lalaith, we still have time for that until the Night, but it would be one fairly sensible option, right? Because it isn't like we are very clear on her role.

For the Daily business though, I really hope the Living are able to organize the voting in such a way that we can signal them. We should in any case really, really agree on unanimous vote.

Lalaith

06-08-2015, 03:34 AM

I literally have no idea what's going on anymore - I finished yesterDay thinking I was really on top of things and now... not so much.
You and me both, Firefoot.
Oh and thanks for the welcome too, Rikae and Legate. :)
I've been trying to get this monster Mandos thread read..(I am supposed to be working!) so am I right in thinking you guys have only scried two people so far and empowered once, or am I missing something?

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:04 AM

Welcome Firefoot and Lalaith! Nice to see some fresh blood here.

I'm not ready to believe Boro just yet. I read his reveal and thought, "This sounds exactly like a typical Boro fake reveal". Then I saw the discrepancy between him and Nerwen that Rikae mentioned. So yeah, out of the two I feel Boro is the more likely liar.

I'm okay with checking Lalaith. HOWEVER, I think the lynch should still take priority.

You're right, Lalaith - two scries (Greenie and Legate) and one empowerment (Shasta, to tell the village Greenie was innocent). You almost got empowered on DAY 2 but Nog and phantom had some trouble agreeing. :p

I've only skimmed the Living thread but before I can read it properly, I must get some breakfast and finish knitting the hat I'm supposed to give to two coworkers' baby in two hours. Will be back.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 07:09 AM

So I came to work on my day off to see the office baby. Parents are late. "Might as well catch up with my emails," I think. Find myself here.

Hey sally. Depending on what shakes out toDay I think I'd still prefer you alive than temporarily deceased, just because it seems easier to me to protect someone you know versus someone staying hidden, and as there's still two kills a night flying around I would dislike risking both of you dying in the same cycle and us getting nothing from your reveal.
I was skimming and almost got a heart attack because all I saw at first was the "easier to me to protect someone you know" and I thought McC was revealing as the Ranger. :D

In any case, morm and McC are looking good to me.

In my experience, Boro's fake reveals are characterised by not being straightforward. Instead of saying "I'm the gifted" he does this jolly good "Hey ho by the way I'm just replying to this relevant quote in a way that strongly suggests I'm the gifted", and you have to dig for more information. So I'm not saying he's lying, but I think his tone is off. I'm just not sure what he'd gain by doing a false reveal at this point. Will have to think about it.

Okay got to go again.

Macalaure

06-08-2015, 09:03 AM

So first Nerwen reveals falsely and now Boro, too! I don't know what to say anymore. The only way I can think of that makes sense would be if...

...aww, screw that.

I give up. :p

If Nerwen and Boro are indeed just messing with us I'm going find out where they live and murder them dead! ;)

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 09:20 AM

Oyyy we have another 100% wolf!

So.

I'm thinking we can find at least one of Mac's fellows among Lommy, Firefoot and Rikae.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 09:32 AM

I'm curious - which pack do you two represent, Grip or Fang? Or would you prefer us to call them Macpack and Losseposse? :smokin:

Lalaith

06-08-2015, 09:54 AM

The only thing I am hanging onto in this crazy double-threaded world is that I felt very sure of Greenie being innocent and I was right about that.
When it looked (after the Agan kill) that she wasn't, I thought my instincts had completely gone after years of non-playing...I can't believe Nogs or phantom haven't been scried yet. We were so sure you would have done, back in the land of the living...

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 10:13 AM

I was already leaning toward Morm being innocent after the Loslote interactions earlier in the game. He needs to re-assess his priorities, though. :p
Interesting logic. Not wolves with Lottie, ergo innocent. How can Eomer reach that conclusion unless he's in the other pack?

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 11:23 AM

If Nerwen is actually the seer that's brilliant. All that "Did I mention somebody is probably innocent?" without ever saying it straight.

And yeah I think I'm believing Boro for now. A Borowolf could and would have dropped all those hints just in case he needed them later, but at the moment a fake reveal doesn't seem to make sense for a wolf. And trying to flush out the real mystery role would be too risky as they clearly have killing powers.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 11:25 AM

I'm curious - which pack do you two represent, Grip or Fang? Or would you prefer us to call them Macpack and Losseposse? :smokin:

++The Fanged Firefoot

I'm a Grip. ;)

Loslote

06-08-2015, 11:28 AM

Interesting logic. Not wolves with Lottie, ergo innocent. How can Eomer reach that conclusion unless he's in the other pack?

I agree with this. Also, if Boro was right about Lal, neither she nor Eomer are mine, so we might be down to just one member of the Fang pack still alive right now. :p

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 11:38 AM

I'm a Grip. ;)
Ah makes sense, I'd forgotten about that. I hope you're right about the Fang pack - although it's also possible there's no one left and they have already lost as there was only one kill last night.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 11:39 AM

Also what's Nerwen up to?

Loslote

06-08-2015, 11:41 AM

Ah makes sense, I'd forgotten about that. I hope you're right about the Fang pack - although it's also possible there's no one left and they have already lost as there was only one kill last night.

That's true! Hope indeed springs eternal. :D

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 11:49 AM

That's true! Hope indeed springs eternal. :D
I'm still not convinced Mac and Firefoot are packmates, but what do you think of Mac and Rikae? Or Lalaith? I assume Eomer would fit in this pack as well, especially if he's not yours.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 11:59 AM

I'm still not convinced Mac and Firefoot are packmates, but what do you think of Mac and Rikae? Or Lalaith? I assume Eomer would fit in this pack as well, especially if he's not yours.

Mac/Lalaith/Eomer, maybe? Although Rikae's fake Seer reveal and Mac's cool response to it would make sense if Rikae were his packmate, so maybe Mac/Rikae and one of Lalaith or Eomer. I think it would help a lot to know Lalaith's role - or even just to know more about Boro's.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 12:00 PM

It's hard to tell where Lalaith fits in any given pack grouping, though, since she was so under the radar. Maybe checking Rikae would be more useful, since there are more connections there that could give us more information?

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:06 PM

Oyyy we have another 100% wolf!

So.

I'm thinking we can find at least one of Mac's fellows among Lommy, Firefoot and Rikae.

How do you figure? Because as it is (if we scry Lalaith), both Firefoot and I are going to remain unknown.

And, Mac, you had me fooled, anyway (I even had my doubts after Nerwen's reveal). You always look like your same old self to me, wolf or innocent, so I try to avoid basing decisions on you!

Macalaure

06-08-2015, 12:26 PM

One would think, after all those different wolf combos you guys have tried out so far, at least one of them had been correct simply by chance. It's fun from my perspective, because I can see the one crucial piece of info that's missing. Should I help you, to increase my chances of bringing down the other wolf pack, or am I just going to lean back and wait until you figure it out? :smokin:

And, Mac, you had me fooled, anyway (I even had my doubts after Nerwen's reveal). You always look like your same old self to me, wolf or innocent, so I try to avoid basing decisions on you!

Yeah, I seemed to be able to maintain a shred of doubt in here, even despite overwhelming evidence. Go me! :rolleyes: :D

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:36 PM

Ok, caught up now, Nerwen calling Firefoot innocent and exempting a whole boatload of people from lynching: Lommy, Eomer, Shasta. Maybe Nilp.

Caught up, but lost. I can't even keep track anymore. What do we know?
Boro can only kill wolves and gifteds, apparently? If so, can we count Lalaith as a wolf without bothering to scry her? She called herself an ordo.
Of course that only works if we trust Boro, and trust that this is indeed how his ability works.

If Nerwen knows Firefoot is innocent, there's no reason to waste a scry on her, either.

I may even be the best option. So, I'm supposed to be a member of the Fang pack with Mac and (apparently seer-dreamed innocent) Lommy or (also apparently seer-dreamed innocent, and also dead) Firefoot? I'm not sure how much good knowing I'm not will do you.

Agan, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who finds the tone of Boro's reveal fishy. Not that he might not have good reasons for it.

I'm sorry if I seem to be saying random things. Like I said, I'm kind of lost at the moment.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:38 PM

Also... although as I said, I'm not sure how useful it will be, I'll vote with Agan/Greenie/Legate (assuming they vote together, which I hope they will) on toNight's scry.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 12:42 PM

Triple posting...

It's odd how Nerwen talked about me being a seer-impersonating wolf.
It leaves me wondering if she had some kind of a glimpse into what goes on in the dead thread.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 12:52 PM

I may even be the best option. So, I'm supposed to be a member of the Fang pack with Mac and (apparently seer-dreamed innocent) Lommy or (also apparently seer-dreamed innocent, and also dead) Firefoot? I'm not sure how much good knowing I'm not will do you.

With Mac and Lalaith, assuming Eomer was indeed dreamed and found innocent by the Seer.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 01:00 PM

Mac/Lalaith/Eomer, maybe? Although Rikae's fake Seer reveal and Mac's cool response to it would make sense if Rikae were his packmate, so maybe Mac/Rikae and one of Lalaith or Eomer.
How do you figure? Because as it is (if we scry Lalaith), both Firefoot and I are going to remain unknown.
If Mac had believed your reveal, I think he would have acted differently. Really which wolf could resist gloating at a dead seer who only had one (dead) wolf dreamed? I know I couldn't. So either your innocent list contained a fellow of his so he knew you were lying, or you two are packmates. I wouldn't put it past you, finding you've both been killed, to pull such a trick - after all you both could conclude it with "Their reaction made them look like an ordo to me."

Boro can only kill wolves and gifteds, apparently? If so, can we count Lalaith as a wolf without bothering to scry her? She called herself an ordo.
Of course that only works if we trust Boro, and trust that this is indeed how his ability works.
Can he? I don't think he ever said that, or if he did I can't find it. I thought he only said he was sure Lalaith wasn't a gifted. I hope you're right though!

Also... although as I said, I'm not sure how useful it will be, I'll vote with Agan/Greenie/Legate (assuming they vote together, which I hope they will) on toNight's scry.
There's just one problem - it's nearly 10 pm, both Greenie and I have work early tomorrow and nobody has voted or so much as suggested a way of communicating information. Not happy about the slowness.

It's odd how Nerwen talked about me being a seer-impersonating wolf.
It leaves me wondering if she had some kind of a glimpse into what goes on in the dead thread.
Well considering I thought your posts looked seerish (really it was the main reason I brought Greenie here instead of Mac), I don't think it means she's been spying on us!

the phantom

06-08-2015, 01:22 PM

Loslote

06-08-2015, 01:25 PM

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)

Presumably she has another wolf. Alternately, she was telling the truth about the special role dynamic, and she herself is the eighth dream.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 01:27 PM

If Mac had believed your reveal, I think he would have acted differently. Really which wolf could resist gloating at a dead seer who only had one (dead) wolf dreamed? I know I couldn't. So either your innocent list contained a fellow of his so he knew you were lying, or you two are packmates. I wouldn't put it past you, finding you've both been killed, to pull such a trick - after all you both could conclude it with "Their reaction made them look like an ordo to me."

I thought that he would have, too, but the people I listed: Boro, Lommy, Agan and Firefoot - are all in the clear now, assuming we believe Boro and Nerwen.
So basically, either I am Mac's packmate or he just did a good job of reacting innocently to my accusation.
Actually, if you guys want to just write me off as a known wolf and scry someone else, it would probably be best. Of course, by saying that someone's probably going to come up with a theory that I'm protecting a fellow by saying this... :rolleyes:

Can he? I don't think he ever said that, or if he did I can't find it. I thought he only said he was sure Lalaith wasn't a gifted. I hope you're right though!
The phantom quoted a post earlier where he implies it.

There's just one problem - it's nearly 10 pm, both Greenie and I have work early tomorrow and nobody has voted or so much as suggested a way of communicating information. Not happy about the slowness.
Yes, that could be bad. A good chance there are three wolves here now (at least) and they're working together, and our three known innocents are Europeans. :(
Actually, that's a reason to scry me: I'm always around at DL.

Edit: X'd with phantom and wolfie

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 01:28 PM

According to Nerwen-

Wolves: Mac, Lottie

Innocent: Firefoot, Phantom, Eomer, Shasta, Lommy

Possible Wolves: Form, McCaber, Morm, Nilp, Mith, Kath

Doesn't List: Sally, Boro

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)

Presumably she has another wolf. Alternately, she was telling the truth about the special role dynamic, and she herself is the eighth dream.

Sally, Boro, Nerwen... nice pack?

Rikae

06-08-2015, 01:33 PM

Sally, Boro, Nerwen... nice pack?

At this point the real seer would be able to discredit them...

the phantom

06-08-2015, 01:34 PM

Well, I'm pretty comfortable with everything that has been going on with the Living. Nothing shocking or difficult to believe, especially as no one has attempted to counter at this point (which, at this stage of the game, they would if they believed the village was headed in a dangerous direction).

I can only check in periodically today, but I'll be fully present for the final hour or so.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 01:36 PM

Okay. A Busy day... and just only managed to read trough the Dead Thread to get something like a hang of it.

So sorry Lalaith, but it seems this place only has Riesling on offer - not quite Sancerre, sadly. :)

And welcome to Firefoot as well!

On another issue. Our seer must have nerves of steel, whoever it is. *hats off*

On a related issue - I do have a feeling we're actually doing quite fine with most of the wolves already on this thread. Not bad in a crazy game like this.

And just reminding everyone - after reading once again a dozen of theories one more odd than the other - let's not forget that anyone can claim basically anything in this game were nothing is revealed, and anyone can come up with any kind of crazy explanation of anything that happens - or even might happen. We have so many special roles flying this or that way right now that they'd be enough for ten games.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 01:37 PM

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 01:38 PM

To be honest, I believed Boro more before he disclosed his hints, because they are just... horribly lame. I mean, they sound like things a Wolf would put in and later claim they were hints. "Den-dweller"! Seeriously?

Anyway, what puzzles me the most at the moment is if we have one special role, and let's say it is Boro, then what in the name of all is Nerwen - I am really beginning to wonder if she is simply the Seer (which would indeed be brilliant trick from her).

Anyway, seems the Living have nicely managed to dismantle any chances for us to communicate something to them, riight? Because no one has posted any nice list like Firefoot did yesterDay, and if they come up with the whole stuff really late (and under some voting fray we are not sure that we want to endorse), it's really difficult...

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 01:45 PM

Now I may have some more to add later. For now, though, in case I can't get online again, I'll just say that the Ranger had better not waste a protection on me. Among other things I don't think I'll be getting any more pms anyway and we've got (effectively) a whole bunch of known innocents now.If she is the seer (I could buy it - well I have to read toDay's posting on the living thread first), that is cool indeed.

"I don't think I'm getting any more PM's"... :)

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 01:50 PM

But that's only seven dreams instead of eight. Which dream hasn't she mentioned yet? (Or did I miss it?)
Could be Boro - she said she'd been thinking he was the special role for a couple of days. Or could be what Lottie suggested.

At this point the real seer would be able to discredit them...
Unless they were convinced the real seer is dead. Still, lover and special role impersonation would be risky as the special seems to be an assassin and the lover could come back.

Anyway, seems the Living have nicely managed to dismantle any chances for us to communicate something to them, riight? Because no one has posted any nice list like Firefoot did yesterDay, and if they come up with the whole stuff really late (and under some voting fray we are not sure that we want to endorse), it's really difficult...
Yup... :rolleyes: I'm trying to think of a way that's not cheating to let them know when we're going to bed and won't be there to see the communication plans, but unless somebody else can think of something, all I have is for the entire Dead thread to go quiet after Greenie, Legate and I leave (with or without voting) and that's not conducive (plus the wolves could mess it up - although the village would probably notice it's just Mac and Lottie posting :D).

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 01:54 PM

Yup... :rolleyes: I'm trying to think of a way that's not cheating to let them know when we're going to bed and won't be there to see the communication plans, but unless somebody else can think of something, all I have is for the entire Dead thread to go quiet after Greenie, Legate and I leave (with or without voting) and that's not conducive (plus the wolves could mess it up - although the village would probably notice it's just Mac and Lottie posting :D).

Phantom! Where are your elaborate schemes when we need them, huh? Now's a chance for the captain of Gondor to show his quality... eh... nevermind that.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 02:07 PM

We need to empower somebody, though.

Without a system, we can let them know that we trust Boro/Nerwen, at least (so they can assume that Mac and Lottie have outed themselves here).

Rikae

06-08-2015, 02:08 PM

Unless they were convinced the real seer is dead. Still, lover and special role impersonation would be risky as the special seems to be an assassin and the lover could come back.

They might think that, but we know better, and at this point I can't imagine the real seer would allow it to continue.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 02:10 PM

Simplest, least ambiguous way is to empower Boro or Nerwen. Boro, I'd say.
The living wolves most likely think Nerwen is the seer, but we don't need to be all like "hey! We ghosts think so too!"

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 02:12 PM

Simplest, least ambiguous way is to empower Boro or Nerwen. Boro, I'd say.
The living wolves most likely think Nerwen is the seer, but we don't need to be all like "hey! We ghosts think so too!"

Agreed about that. Still, it would really be much much better if we could pass on some other info. Sadly I can't think of a way to do it, not even by using Firefoot's list from yesterDay, since if I am not mistaken, I do not appear on it...

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 02:14 PM

Okay. I think Boro is overdoing it. (Maybe because he's the last of his pack left?) If the wolves are thinking about trying to put doubt to my claims, and get the village to lynch me as a wolf, that theory wouldn't hold, because there is no other explanation for Mac's death other than I assassinated him NIGHT 3 (and I left clues to my activities/thoughts, which I will get to in a moment).

If they want to try to kill me in the night (Ranger don't ever consider protecting me), I may have a another trick, or I may not, that I'm taking to the grave with me. Their choice.So he should not be lynched and he should not be NightKilled? Nice.

Also he tells us about all the hints he has been making but doesn''t mention the FBI-thing tp was so happy to champion as the hint he picked of him being the seer earlier on. Like I said earlier, in this game one doesn't trust anyone, let alone one would trust tp. :)

Boro's explanations of his kills also sound a bit ad hoc to me. I mean he is kind of doing a systematic thing but then again he doesn't stick to it and all that jazz.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 02:16 PM

We need to empower somebody, though.

Without a system, we can let them know that we trust Boro/Nerwen, at least (so they can assume that Mac and Lottie have outed themselves here).Not Boro if have another choice. Why would we signal the village he's alright when he so totally isn't?

I mean no, I don't know him to be a wolf, but he's one of the fishiest in the thread right now so let's not lend him any more credibility if we can avoid it?

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 02:21 PM

DAY 1 and 2 opinions separated by |||, DAY 2 and 3 by ///
Brackets indicate a vague/changing opinion
Known wolves underlined. Confirmed innocents italicised (yeah, only those we've found out here, just to be on the safe side.

NIGHT 2 VICTIMS

phantom suspected: Nogrod, Lottie, Mac, Firefoot
phantom found innocent: Aganzir, Boro, sally, Nilp

Rune suspected: Greenie
Rune found innocent: (Form)

**

NIGHT 3 VICTIMS

Macalaure suspected: Aganzir ||| Aganzir, (Legate,) Firefoot, Form, sally, Lottie
Macalaure found innocent: Rikae, Firefoot, Nilp, Legate, Greenie ||| Rikae, Legate morm, Eomer, Lommy, Lalaith, Mith

Rikae suspected: Lommy, Greenie, Mac, phantom ||| Greenie, Firefoot, Lottie
Rikae found innocent: ||| Agan, Mac, morm, (Firefoot)

Legate suspected: Greenie ||| Greenie, Boro, Firefoot, Lottie, Aganzir, (mentioned earlier but later put on his second-best zone: sally, McCab, Mac)
Legate found innocent: (Nog, Lommy, Form, Kath, Shasta, morm, Mith, Rune, Nerwen) ||| Nerwen, Lommy, Mith

**

NIGHT 4 VICTIMS

Firefoot suspected: (Lommy) ||| Lottie, Mac, McC, (Rikae), (Eomer, Shasta, sally - potentially suspicious for the Nogwagon) /// Boro, Lottie
Firefoot found innocent: (Nog) ||| Nerwen, Form, Rikae, morm, Boro, Shasta, Eomer, (Greenie, Agan) /// morm

Lalaith suspected: Legate ||| Aganzir, (Legate, Boro, Mac) /// Lottie, Mac
Lalaith found innocent: ||| Greenie, Nerwen, Lottie /// Firefoot, (Lommy, Nerwen, Mith - assuming Legate as the seer thesis was correct), (Eomer - didn't really say he was innocent, just that he had good points more than once)

**

Can't conclude much from NIGHT 4 though. I also included Lalaith even if there's reason to believe she was killed by Boro while the ranger blocked the Fang pack tonight. It seems the Grip pack killed Firefoot as per Lottie's instructions - I'm inclined to agree with whoever said Lottie believed her the Seer and tried to paint her as a rival wolf to discourage the Ranger.

However, there are a lot of leads back to Boro - both Legate and Firefoot (and Lalaith) suspected him. And as I said yesterday, everybody except Rune out of the first 5 victims suspected Firefoot as well.
If neither is a wolf, the remaining few are doing a good job slipping under the radar.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 02:25 PM

Also he tells us about all the hints he has been making but doesn''t mention the FBI-thing tp was so happy to champion as the hint he picked of him being the seer earlier on. Like I said earlier, in this game one doesn't trust anyone, let alone one would trust tp. :)
Exactly. I'm sure he has another trick or two up his sleeve in case he'd had to reveal as the ranger, hunter or lover.

Not Boro if have another choice. Why would we signal the village he's alright when he so totally isn't?

I mean no, I don't know him to be a wolf, but he's one of the fishiest in the thread right now so let's not lend him any more credibility if we can avoid it?
Ditto.

I'd rather empower Nerwen if we have to choose - she probably has the most information in the village and whether or not we do it, the wolves know it too. What are the chances they tried to kill sally instead of her last night? Not big, I'd say. I think she'll be back shortly before the deadline with her list of dreams, after which she'll be happy to join us here.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 02:31 PM

Not Boro if have another choice. Why would we signal the village he's alright when he so totally isn't?

I mean no, I don't know him to be a wolf, but he's one of the fishiest in the thread right now so let's not lend him any more credibility if we can avoid it?

Well, it's unlikely Boro is a wolf. Nerwen appears to have dreamed of him, and even if he and Nerwen are both lying, the real seer is alive and most likely knows something about him, about Nerwen, or at the very least about one of the people she's claiming to know the role of. If he's not the real special role, there's also the real special role person to consider. The fact that no one is protesting speaks against Boro being a wolf.

Is he telling the truth 100% about his role and how it works? Probably not, and I wish we knew more. But I do trust that he is a gifted, and not a wolf (and we have more reason to trust him than the living do).

Rikae

06-08-2015, 02:38 PM

Actually, what am I thinking? We should scry Lalaith.

If she's truly an ordo, we know there are still two packs about (assuming we're right about Boro's role). That's worth knowing.

Also, she's who the living have asked us to scry, and with so many people here, we won't necessarily have the option to tell them about me (or Legate).
At least Lalaith's role, they should give us a way to communicate.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 02:40 PM

"What am I thinking" referring to how I earlier said that we could just assume she was a wolf and scry someone else.

As for toDay's empower, I'm fine with Nerwen, too.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 02:45 PM

Well, it's unlikely Boro is a wolf. Nerwen appears to have dreamed of him, and even if he and Nerwen are both lying, the real seer is alive and most likely knows something about him, about Nerwen, or at the very least about one of the people she's claiming to know the role of. If he's not the real special role, there's also the real special role person to consider. The fact that no one is protesting speaks against Boro being a wolf.

Is he telling the truth 100% about his role and how it works? Probably not, and I wish we knew more. But I do trust that he is a gifted, and not a wolf (and we have more reason to trust him than the living do).
Well. I'm not sure about this. I've seen Borowolf fake reveal out of the blue just to flush out the real ranger when he felt they needed to take them out - poor Shasta was lynched as the "fake" ranger, and Boro the next day. I can't remember if it resulted in a wolf victory but either way it was effective.

At the moment, there's 12 people alive. Let's say Boro is a wolf and his pack is still in full strength (while they know the other pack is down to 1). In this situation, the special role is the biggest risk to them.

Boro fake reveals, trying to oust the special. An innocent is lynched. After two (innocent) night kills, there's 3 wolves to 5 villagers (and 1 wolf). Not difficult to sway the vote. The pack wins the next day.
Alternatively, Boro fake reveals, trying to oust the special - who kills him next NIGHT. Boro is a "known innocent" in the Dead thread, at least until the special speaks out or we scry him. He can influence our vote and try to ensure his pack's survival from here. Not as effective but not necessarily doomed either.

I'm not saying this is what's happening or that it's even likely, just that it's possible and we shouldn't dismiss it, especially as in the "best" case scenario it makes sense as a means to secure victory. In any case, I'm not sure Nerwen has dreamed Boro.

WW CIX, otherwise apparently known as the game in which Agan didn't trust a single gifted reveal. :rolleyes:

the phantom

06-08-2015, 02:49 PM

I would say this could be a chance to use our empower to try and kill the target we want dead (i.e. early voters spread and late voters pick the target), BUT that hardly works if Mac and Lottie are growling around at the deadline and lacking balance for them...

We probably do need to bandwagon. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm not even going to try theorizing Nerwen and Boro as liars because I've liked them from the start. (Frankly it's a bit funny how little anything has changed for me this game. I'm so stubborn.)

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 02:50 PM

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 02:51 PM

Anyway, I'm not even going to try theorizing Nerwen and Boro as liars because I've liked them from the start. (Frankly it's a bit funny how little anything has changed for me this game. I'm so stubborn.)
The Dead thread is making me paranoid. Look at me, happy and trusting Rikae when we lived and what now?

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 02:56 PM

Lalaith

06-08-2015, 02:59 PM

The Dead thread is making me paranoid.
Me too. I thought it would be nice here. And now Nogs tells me there isn't even Sancerre in the afterlife. (Although I am touched that he remembered)

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:00 PM

Also, if someone had a "licence to kill"-role, why would s/he protest openly against Boro in the thread and reveal her/himself? Just attack him at Night if s/he (the special role) is on the side of the villagers.

I went through the same thought process and wanted to say that here, but there would be a reason: if the "real assassin" just killed Boro, who would ever know that Boro wasn't just a real assassin killed by Wolves because he was dangerous to them?

All that said, all the concerns raised here are valid. By the way I am also getting paranoid with all you other talking-a-lot folks, except for basically Aganzir .

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 03:01 PM

With too many unknowns sitting here around the DL I'd suggest a bandwagon as well - and as we have no clue how the voting will go we'd probably need to pick just whom we feel the most trustworthy or least suspicious.

I'm not saying Nerwen couldn't pull out that kind of a master-class tactics, but giving us two wolves is pretty good show none else in the thread can boast of. And so they might even understand we gave it just as a reward for well done wolf-catching.

the phantom

06-08-2015, 03:02 PM

Ha ha, Kath. Just votes for the person that happens to be listed first on Nerwen's list of the unknown. :D

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:03 PM

I'm not saying Nerwen couldn't pull out that kind of a master-class tactics, but giving us two wolves is pretty good show none else in the thread can boast of. And so they might even understand we gave it just as a reward for well done wolf-catching.

Hopefully.

At least I would trust Nerwen to do with her vote something reasonable. (And if she is a Wolf, I daresay she deserves it...)

It might also be a point to make that we are not totally certain about Boro, as opposed to her (although I am not entirely sure if that is really the point we want to make... but it's not as conclusive point, anyway).

Are there any other good options? Can't think of any.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 03:18 PM

If there is no clear-cut situation where both the village votes more or less unanimously and there is a clearly established procedure what our vote means, then I say we just try to do what little we can. If there were already a pack of votes we could vote for someone who voted to lynch someone we especially suspect, but as even that is not the case I'm afraid we just have to give our vote as some kind of vote of confidence (or then not vote at all) as it looks like most of us will be having little to say as to who is lynched because we're fast alsleep (and too many wolves, 2-4, lurk there around the DL).

When I look at the list of names in the Living Thread I can't quite come up with anyone else than Nerwen as one we could vote for.

I'm open to well argued ideas though. For a while (trying to go to sleep in some more decentish time finally tonight).

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:22 PM

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 03:25 PM

http://www.riedelglass.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/0f396e8a55728e79b48334e699243c07/5/4/5449-74_black_background.jpg

Me too. I thought it would be nice here. And now Nogs tells me there isn't even Sancerre in the afterlife. (Although I am touched that he remembered)
And here for Lalaith!
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.tinypic.com%2F2ckjgj.jpg&f=1

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 03:28 PM

I think I'll vote for Nerwen. (Also Greenie will probably get on here and vote in a little while, unless she forgets and goes to sleep instead.)

Sally is another option, being pretty much a known innocent, but I think voting Nerwen is so clear-cut that even if the village starts making a communication plan an hour before the deadline, they'll realise we weren't exactly conveying information with her empowerment.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 03:30 PM

Eomer is still talking about a plan but not doing anything to make it happen. Just thoughtless (he shouldn't be, being a live European :rolleyes:) or actually evil?

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 03:32 PM

It seems Eomer is just on his way trying to formulate first ideas towards possibly planning an initial sugestion as to whehter someone might build up scheme or something...

I'm afraid it's coming a bit late as I'm quite ready to turn to bed pretty soon.

EDIT: X'd with clearly the same notion...

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:36 PM

Great, so just now Eomer started to talk about some possibilities to get the info. But,

a) Sompeetalay. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63PrZgsyQek)

b) Even if they pick us some nice players to empower, we can't guarantee we'll want to mess with the vote.

c) They can still spend like three hours debating it, and I guess many of us would like to go to sleep, like, now.

EDIT: obviously "triple X" :D

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:39 PM

Eomer is still talking about a plan but not doing anything to make it happen. Just thoughtless (he shouldn't be, being a live European :rolleyes:) or actually evil?

Good point - he's European, he should know better regarding the dead Europeans (has he been killing us all along, so he could be the last European standing? :mad: Okay, with Lommy and Mith and Kath apparently... did I miss somebody else?) Then again, of course we've been *cough cough* sometimes staying up to the DL in the previous days, but heck, it isn't weekend anymore...

Maybe it should just be Nerwen. (I just hope the Wolves don't write something like "if you dreamed Lottie innocent, vote Nerwen!")

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 03:42 PM

Good point - he's European, he should know better regarding the dead Europeans (has he been killing us all along, so he could be the last European standing? :mad: Okay, with Lommy and Mith and Kath apparently... did I miss somebody else?) Then again, of course we've been *cough cough* sometimes staying up to the DL in the previous days, but heck, it isn't weekend anymore...
:D :D
Weeeell. There's been a European kill every. single. night. That's statistically more than can be expected. It's got to mean something, huh?

Maybe it should just be Nerwen. (I just hope the Wolves don't write something like "if you dreamed Lottie innocent, vote Nerwen!")
Hahaha that would be almost too perfect!

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 03:48 PM

Again, Nilp was among the first to start talking about a communication plan. However, all he gave was an idea - nothing about the details of carrying it out. It was similar yesterday and it took Firefoot to get it going (why are you dead dear?). I'm wondering if he's trying to appear helpful without committing, or if taking control and making decisions just doesn't come naturally to him.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 03:48 PM

Is anyone else likely to be around at DL, besides tp, Mac, Lottie & I? Firefoot?

Would it be reasonable to split the vote between two acceptable choices, in case someone posts a list that would make it bad for us to pick one of them?

I don't want to risk a tied vote in the end, or letting the wolves choose the direction of the vote, but if we have enough innocents around at DL it could be safe. If it's those people I listed, though, we've got two wolves, two Nerwen-claimed innocents, and me. I like those numbers but you probably don't.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 03:51 PM

Of course, I would always like those numbers, whatever I am. :D

Never mind anyway, it looks like they're about to post a list. Although I don't know how they plan on giving two options for each - they don't have enough people.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 03:52 PM

Of course, I would always like those numbers, whatever I am.
I was going to point out. :D

Still, it's 1 am and I doubt I'll stick around long enough to see said list.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:53 PM

Hahaha that would be almost too perfect!
I would especially be perfect if some WW makes the list.

Is anyone else likely to be around at DL, besides tp, Mac, Lottie & I? Firefoot?

Would it be reasonable to split the vote between two acceptable choices, in case someone posts a list that would make it bad for us to pick one of them?
Any splitting is awful.

For myself, personally, I can stay up for a while yet... but I am pretty sure most are not happy about it... well, I am not either... but unless the living guys up there come up with something brilliant fast, I'd wrap it up.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 03:55 PM

And I agree that just happily chatting about "we should make a list" makes the posters look helpful, while they actually aren't. (If you ask me, Eomer looked horribly suspicious to me already yesterDay. Or was it even before that? Certainly very shortly after I died.)

I'll give it, what, fifteen minutes and then, Nerwen it is.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 03:57 PM

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 03:59 PM

Anything and whatever is possible in this one...

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 03:59 PM

I'd agree with Legate's 15 minutes as well...

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:00 PM

Me too. 15 minutes and it's Exeunt Europa.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:01 PM

Lalaith can have 2 hours 15 minutes, being in a lagging timezone. :p

Rikae

06-08-2015, 04:01 PM

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:02 PM

Do you think Boro could be the seer and Nerwen the special role, and by whatever power invested in her, they've done a clever role swap? That would explain why she's not clear about the dreams and doesn't mind not being protected while Boro made a fake-looking reveal that strongly discouraged the wolves to try and attack him.

Are you sure you oughtn't be sleeping? Sounds like very overcombining brain to me :D

Seriously speaking though, it is possible... actually anyway, I have been thinking about there being some role-swapping involved with the special roles. Also, when was it that Boro said he killed and didn't kill or what? Is there a chance they swapped during the Night when he didn't make the kill (that being the reason why he didn't)? Still, why wasn't there an assassin earlier? Or has our Ranger been protecting people, so we didn't know there should have been more kills? (Speaking of which, where is the Ranger?)

Too many questions anyway... But yeah. Bottom line, it is possible.

Firefoot

06-08-2015, 04:02 PM

just popping in to say that I'll be around at the deadline to vote, but a vote for Nerwen is fine with me.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:04 PM

AND WE HAVE PASSED THE LIVING THREAD!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Deny-the-Symptoms/gifs/e8c19fe7.gif

the phantom

06-08-2015, 04:04 PM

I can't believe other-lover and Ranger haven't stepped out. There's only six people we don't know, right? That would cut it down to four.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:06 PM

It's been really lazy there - so maybe they just haven't been around?

Kudos for our train going past them!

Rikae

06-08-2015, 04:07 PM

If we had one full wolf pack here I would kind of expect them to have given up/confessed.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:07 PM

Um what the hell is Form trying to say?

A Little Green

06-08-2015, 04:07 PM

Haven't read everything but I think I've got the idea. So -

++ Nerwen

Sorry for being useless today, should have more time tomorrow!

Loslote

06-08-2015, 04:07 PM

I have nothing useful to say, just wanted to point out that we just tied the Living thread. ;)

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt267/Tolkienite_94/Tie.png (http://s618.photobucket.com/user/Tolkienite_94/media/Tie.png.html)

EDIT: xed since Firefoot

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:08 PM

If we had one full wolf pack here I would kind of expect them to have given up/confessed.
Yeah me too. I'd prefer a village victory to the other pack.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:08 PM

I wouldn't hold it impossible they have only 1+1 left there... ;)

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:08 PM

Okay, now they did it:

If we want ten-for-ten we could subtract Boro and Sally, our two "Known Roles" (well, more so than the rest--substitute Nerwen in place of one of them, if you prefer) and leave the ten votes for the ten unknowns. We could do a strict alphabetical correspondence.:

Aganzir..........................................E omer of the Rohirrim
A Little Green................................Formendacil
Firefoot.........................................K ath
Lalaith........................................... McCaber
Legate of Amon Lanc....................Mithalwen
Macalaure.....................................morm egil
Nogrod..........................................Ne rwen
Rikae............................................. Nilpaurion Felagund
Rune Son of Bjarne.......................Shastanis Althreduin
the phantom.................................Thinlómien
If his vote is for a known wolf.......Boromir88
If her vote is for a known wolf......satansaloser2005

A similar scheme (put the Living column in reverse alphabetical order, swap out Nerwen for Boro, etc) could easily be mocked up.

Question being - do we go with it? And is it safe (i.e. what if they still revise it...)

Mith would be a good vote though, generally speaking (as in, I relatively trust her). But specifically speaking, I am not sure if I would trust her - also, didn't she vote already?

Rikae

06-08-2015, 04:11 PM

Form's list doesn't make any sense. Say we empower Mith ... what does that tell them? That Legate is innocent or guilty?

And now I'm really worried he'll swap Boro and Nerwen, meaning empowering her will make them think her vote is for a known wolf.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 04:11 PM

Question being - do we go with it? And is it safe (i.e. what if they still revise it...)

Mith would be a good vote though, generally speaking (as in, I relatively trust her). But specifically speaking, I am not sure if I would trust her - also, didn't she vote already?

There's no option for whether the role was good or evil, though. All we can do is tell them who was dreamed, not what the outcome was. :rolleyes:

EDIT: xed with Rikae, who said basically the same thing.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:12 PM

Yeah. That's a total no go - at least for the time being.

The other question then is, is there time.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:12 PM

Ah, right. Stupid me.

Anyway, since Greenie already voted... and Nerwen doesn't even figure on their list... maybe we should just go with that and be done.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:14 PM

Yeah, our time is kind of up anyway.

I'm thinking of voting Nerwen and being done with it. Chances are she doesn't even make it back before the deadline. :D

Loslote

06-08-2015, 04:14 PM

Anyway, since Greenie already voted... and Nerwen doesn't even figure on their list... maybe we should just go with that and be done.

Nope. Empowering Nerwen means we found out Nog's role.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:15 PM

Nope. Empowering Nerwen means we found out Nog's role.

Yeah, but not which, so it still might work. But what in the name of all...

I feel like Morm's avatar right now.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:16 PM

Nope. Empowering Nerwen means we found out Nog's role.
Except we couldn't convey it to the village anyway, not with Form's chart, so it doesn't actually matter.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:16 PM

I feel like Morm's avatar right now.
You know if I get bored tomorrow, I'm going to make a "Best of Dead Thread" post with all these quotes. :D :D :D

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:17 PM

...? what???

Form, what are you suggesting?

Say, the dead empower Kath, then Firefoot what?? Is one whose role is known by the dead? But is she innocent or guilty???
Thank you Lommy.

the phantom

06-08-2015, 04:19 PM

Rikae

06-08-2015, 04:19 PM

Ah, Lommy pointed it out.

But that reminds me: Lommy must know what havoc this is causing for the dead in her time zone.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:20 PM

You know if I get bored tomorrow, I'm going to make a "Best of Dead Thread" post with all these quotes. :D :D :D

Please do. It might brighten the environment.

Anyway. So... honestly not wanting to wait for another hour. Even if they managed to come up with something, there is no way they are going to agree on a vote. Unless now Nerwen tells them "I got the dream of another person, and it is X". And we already have one vote in the lot - for Nerwen. I think we might just as well do it.

I'm afraid the Living thread is just soaked in Wolves, though...

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:20 PM

Nope. Empowering Nerwen means we found out Nog's role.Even if they took it that way it wouldn't make much of a difference as there is very little they could speculate with it. And btw. if the thought was that we voted someone if an innocent, it would actually be true also.

And also. It's better they think I was checked and found innocent / guilty - whichever way they are going to interpret it, than someone more recent of whom they'd have lot more "trails" to read then possibly wrong (of whom they might make a lot problematic conclusions) or the wolves might steer those interpretations.

But I mean yes. It is late and they should understand this didn't work this time.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:21 PM

If Green or Agan can promise to be around at the Deadline with Firefoot and I, perhaps the rest of you can just spread your votes evenly right now? (with the unknowns Nog-Rikae-Lalaith voting first of course, and I don't expect the WWs to oblige)
Nope. Greenie went to bed already and I'm not setting my alarm at 4:45, not even for 15 minutes, not even for this game.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:21 PM

If Green or Agan can promise to be around at the Deadline with Firefoot and I, perhaps the rest of you can just spread your votes evenly right now? (with the unknowns Nog-Rikae-Lalaith voting first of course, and I don't expect the WWs to oblige)

Green already voted. And the DL is like 4 AM our time or something?

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:22 PM

But I mean yes. It is late and they should understand this didn't work this time.

Let's hope so. And let's hope they don't spend half tomorrow talking about whether we did send them a message or didn't. Geez. :rolleyes:

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:22 PM

Ah, Lommy pointed it out.

But that reminds me: Lommy must know what havoc this is causing for the dead in her time zone.
Yeah. To be fair though, they may not be thinking about it. It doesn't occur to them how careful we must be so the wolves can't hijack it.

Green already voted. And the DL is like 4 AM our time or something?
5.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:22 PM

If Green or Agan can promise to be around at the Deadline with Firefoot and I, perhaps the rest of you can just spread your votes evenly right now? (with the unknowns Nog-Rikae-Lalaith voting first of course, and I don't expect the WWs to oblige)Greenie voted already, Agan said she's going to sleep... I am, Legate is too...

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:23 PM

How about we just leave. Go quiet. Say nothing. Dead.

If we stop talking, perhaps they'll realise it's not going to work and we're not doing it.

the phantom

06-08-2015, 04:24 PM

I'll go silent. We'll see.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:25 PM

How about we just leave. Go quiet. Say nothing. Dead.

If we stop talking, perhaps they'll realise it's not going to work and we're not doing it.They won't.

And really. I'm not leaving anything to the phantom remembering how he sabotaged the one we were supposed tp make together just the two of us.

SO in a minute I'm voting unless there is a strong argument why not.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 04:26 PM

Looks like they're settling in for a nice, long discussion about what the best way to make this list is. :rolleyes:

Rikae

06-08-2015, 04:26 PM

I was actually thinking the opposite, that if they saw us exploding after Form's suggestion they'd realize it was a problem.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:27 PM

We'd need to be silent for an hour or so that it would be even imagined as seen for a sign of something. Really.

They don't watch the numbers of our posts continually - even if the phantom posts here. :)

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:27 PM

And really. I'm not leaving anything to the phantom remembering how he sabotaged the one we were supposed tp make together just the two of us.
Hahaha! :D To be fair, it didn't look like sabotage to me, just a miscommunication!

I was actually thinking the opposite, that if they saw us exploding after Form's suggestion they'd realize it was a problem.
Yeah that's true I suppose. It's just that I won't have time to explode for very much longer. :(

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:28 PM

With Nog here. I mean I would even give the benefit of doubt to our resident Wolves, but there are still at least two of them, and maybe it is time for experiments, but Nerwen already does have one vote, and I'd at least want to make it so that we aren't overruled in voting.

Nogrod

06-08-2015, 04:29 PM

I'm done.

++ Nerwen

Good night and good luck!

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:29 PM

Whatever info scheme the village can think of, Nerwen is our safest bet. Even if they spend half the DAY talking about it, it's still least chance they'll interpret it as meaning something it doesn't.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 04:30 PM

It's dinnertime here, so I won't be able to help explode either for a bit.

I also have a bad feeling that wolf-Form and/or wolf-Eomer are well aware and laughing at us.

Kuruharan

06-08-2015, 04:30 PM

Some bizarre compulsion is driving me to point out that you guys just filled an entire page in less than half an hour. :D

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:31 PM

Some bizarre compulsion is driving me to point out that you guys just filled an entire page in less than half an hour. :D
GOOD. I hope that helps them realise the idiocy of leaving this for the last couple of hours.

Much love to the living,
a very tired European

:D

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:33 PM

LOMMY! :D

Agan the hunter, sally the lover and Boro the itch man

(thanks to the Downs anti-caps policy I had to edit all capital letters back to this post)

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:33 PM

About them checking the Dead thread - even if they are checking, who is checking it? How many of them are online? And how much? And would they share their observation with the rest? (Wolves wouldn't.)

They won't notice that we "exploded" - I doubt that. Since they can't check the thread, I doubt they are refreshing the page every half a minute, they won't be able to tell if in the last five minutes it was one, three, five or ten new posts.

Silence is the only way we can communicate, and that requires at least an hour of silence or something. Preferably more.

So yeah. I think Nerwen it is, and let's hope for the best. Also for the best lynch from the villagers.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:34 PM

I also have a bad feeling that wolf-Form and/or wolf-Eomer are well aware and laughing at us.
Probably both.

Some bizarre compulsion is driving me to point out that you guys just filled an entire page in less than half an hour. :D

We are the champions, my friend.

Kuruharan

06-08-2015, 04:36 PM

We are the champions, my friend.

My hopes that this game will go down in legend have some chance of being fulfilled. :D :cool:

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:36 PM

Lommy is being poetic! Form and morm, Mith and Kath!

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:38 PM

phantom, are you still here?

the phantom

06-08-2015, 04:41 PM

I was being quiet. Guess that plan is scratched. :p

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:43 PM

Guess so.

Can your phone do international texts (or have you got whatsapp)? Because I'm not going to set an alarm but if something urgent requires my presence, I could give you my number.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:43 PM

The things I do for werewolf. :rolleyes: :D

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:45 PM

Wait Lommy has an idea!
Not sure I understand. We can't ask the dead to give us a dead wolf's name, because they might not have any.

What if we just upgrade Firefoot's scheme [original version (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=697939&postcount=493)] from yesterDay:

(just deleted dead people from the voting options and replaced the phantom and Greenie with Rikae and Legate)

If Nog is a wolf, give your extra vote to Form or McCaber
If Nog is innocent, give your extra vote to Nerwen
If Rikae is a wolf, give your extra vote to Boro
If Rikae is innocent, give your extra vote to Lommy
If Legate is a wolf, give your extra vote to Eomer or morm
If Legate is innocent, give your extra vote to Nilp or shasta
If Rune is a wolf, give your extra vote to Mith or Kath
If Rune is innocent, give your extra vote to Sally

I think this will create the least confusion, in case the dead have started voting already (TIMEZONES) and I don't think it's implausible they went with Firefoot's scheme again if the person they scried was on it...

I also strongly suggest figuring this out in the first half of the Day toMorrow.
So is it Shasta time again? :rolleyes: :D

Kuruharan

06-08-2015, 04:46 PM

Guess so.

Can your phone do international texts (or have you got whatsapp)? Because I'm not going to set an alarm but if something urgent requires my presence, I could give you my number.

Success tp success!!!

I feel confident in confessing now that this whole convoluted game is actually an elaborate ploy orchestrated by the phantom to get Aganzir's number.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:46 PM

My hopes that this game will go down in legend have some chance of being fulfilled.

Already happened, dear sir, already happened.

And now looking at the threads from the outside: it's right! A moment ago we had the same amount of posts, now we have over 40 more... :eek:

That being said... Lommy just posted a kind of a list. Upgraded Firefoot list. Does it make sense? Because if it does, we could still try to pull it off.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:47 PM

Wait Lommy has an idea!

So is it Shasta time again? :rolleyes: :D
I am actually all for it, if we can do it. Wow that would be a last-minute brilliance. (I just hope Shasta doesn't vote some nonsense.)

Success tp success!!!

I feel confident in confessing now that this whole convoluted game is actually an elaborate ploy orchestrated by the phantom to get Aganzir's number.

Rofl.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:48 PM

Success tp success!!!

I feel confident in confessing now that this whole convoluted game is actually an elaborate ploy orchestrated by the phantom to get Aganzir's number.
:D :D :D

I have been laughing maniacally for the last minute or so.

(Hope I don't wake Greenie up.)

the phantom

06-08-2015, 04:49 PM

Indeed, Kuru. Phase one of the plan complete.

Phase two is much more complicated, believe it or not. But when one considers the importance of passing on superior genetics, no amount of planning and plotting is too much.

the phantom

06-08-2015, 04:51 PM

But no, I won't be texting you. When I absolutely must I talk on my phone (cutting off the conversation as quickly as possible). No texting. I don't like for people to feel they have an easy way of contacting me.

But I still want the number of course. Kuru nailed it.

Kuruharan

06-08-2015, 04:51 PM

Phase two is much more complicated, believe it or not. But when one considers the importance of passing on superior genetics, no amount of planning and plotting is too much.

Roger! Phase Two initiated!

I will begin assembly of the space ship's booster rockets and start an RPG thread about a lost dog in Bywater at once!!!!

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:53 PM

Phase two is much more complicated, believe it or not. But when one considers the importance of passing on superior genetics, no amount of planning and plotting is too much.
I would have your babies if you made this much effort plotting it.

Anyhow. I'm going to PM my number to you and you will text me, no matter how little you like it, if you need me to vote.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:54 PM

Alternatively I could just vote for Shasta again. Boy he must feel popular. :smokin:

Rikae

06-08-2015, 04:54 PM

So, Lommy's posted a viable plan now:

If Nog is a wolf, give your extra vote to Form or McCaber
If Nog is innocent, give your extra vote to Nerwen
If Rikae is a wolf, give your extra vote to Boro
If Rikae is innocent, give your extra vote to Lommy
If Legate is a wolf, give your extra vote to Eomer or morm
If Legate is innocent, give your extra vote to Nilp or shasta
If Rune is a wolf, give your extra vote to Mith or Kath
If Rune is innocent, give your extra vote to Sally

Do we have the numbers to safely go for Shasta now?

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:55 PM

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:56 PM

Do we have the numbers to safely go for Shasta now?

I would say, go ahead and vote. And if also e.g. phantom votes, I will follow. Deal?

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:57 PM

I fear I don't want to know anything more.

But does this mean I should try to cast my vote for Shasta? And then trust our esteemed mostly-non-Europeans to do something about it? And whoever isn't going to comply shall be considered enemy of the state henceforth?
:D

I want to vote for Shasta but who's to say he doesn't vote for somebody we don't want to? What if we accidentally cause a tie? It's difficult because nobody else has voted.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 04:59 PM

:D

I want to vote for Shasta but who's to say he doesn't vote for somebody we don't want to? What if we accidentally cause a tie? It's difficult because nobody else has voted.

Of all the people on the Living thread, I am not that worried about Shasta. I think we just have to do the shot in the dark. After all, with Nerwen it is kind of the same possibility.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:59 PM

Then again Shasta is here now and looks like he may be voting for Nilp. I wouldn't mind.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 04:59 PM

Kuru can I authorise somebody to vote on my behalf if I want to go to sleep?

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:00 PM

Then again Shasta is here now and looks like he may be voting for Nilp. I wouldn't mind.

That's fine by me. Let's do it. Rikae? Phantom? (Or whoever is around apart from you, too?) Are you up for voting shasta?

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:01 PM

Also it makes me laugh that Nog voted for Nerwen because in the current plan, that would prove his innocence. :D

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:01 PM

Greenie voted for Nerwen
Nog voted for Nerwen

Left to vote:
the phantom (Nerwen-"dreamed"? innocent)
Rune Son of Bjarne
Aganzir (hunter)
Macalaure (wolf)
Rikae
Legate of Amon Lanc (known innocent)
Loslote (wolf)
Firefoot (one of Nerwen's innocents)
Lalaith

So, four presumably innocent, two wolves, one unknown, and me.

I'd say it's safe, then:

++Shasta

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:03 PM

Gah! Once again I can't count!

Two unknown (Rune and Lalaith). But if the rest of us vote Shasta, we don't need to worry about them anyway.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:07 PM

given that the dead Europeans (*makes a face at Agan if she's reading the living thread*) may well have voted already
I WOULDN'T BE READING THE BLOODY THREAD if you'd just acted sooner.

the phantom

06-08-2015, 05:08 PM

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:08 PM

Also it makes me laugh that Nog voted for Nerwen because in the current plan, that would prove his innocence. :D
He's sleeping happily in the next room, but shh, *whispers* maybe that was his intention all along!

Gah! Once again I can't count!

Two unknown (Rune and Lalaith). But if the rest of us vote Shasta, we don't need to worry about them anyway.

Yes, should be good. And whosoever doth not comply, they shalt be considered the Enemy.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 05:11 PM

If Nog is innocent, give your extra vote to Lottie or Nerwen

...

If Legate is innocent, give your extra vote to Nilp
If Legate is guilty, give your extra vote to Shasta

I just ugly laughed no joke :D

EDIT: I can't stop laughing my face hurts :p

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:11 PM

And no, Agan, it's not that I won't, it's that I can't. I do not text. Sorry.
Then we can't be together.

Rikae? :Merisu:

Although I do feel like just voting for Shasta - the worst that can happen is that we tell them Nog is innocent when we're not sure.

He's sleeping happily in the next room, but shh, *whispers* maybe that was his intention all along!
Don't you just love it that we're reporting on what fellow Downers are doing in the next room? (Greenie is also sleeping. She coughed a little about 45 minutes ago but has since stopped.)

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:12 PM

I want to see who Shasta votes for.

And no, Agan, it's not that I won't, it's that I can't. I do not text. Sorry.

Also, it's nice to hear that my plotting efforts will be rewarded. I, and all future inhabitants of Earth, thank you.

I am just forewarning you that if for any reason you cause a tie or cause the vote to go to some absolutely ridiculous person, there will be no future inhabitants to thank you, since thou and all thy kin shalt be wiped from the face of the Earth.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:12 PM

I just ugly laughed no joke :D

EDIT: I can't stop laughing my face hurts :p
CAN WE JUST DO A BLOODY TIE

thank you

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:13 PM

Lommy's upgrade is RUBBISH. RUBBISH TIMING. RUBBISH OPTIONS. I'M NOT EMPOWERING NILP.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:14 PM

Excuse me. Forget what I just said. I am afraid I might need to strangle someone else closer to home.
If Nog is a wolf, give your extra vote to Form or McCaber
If Nog is innocent, give your extra vote to Lottie or Nerwen
If phantom is a wolf, give your extra vote to Boro
If phantom is innocent, give your extra vote to Lommy
If Rikae is a wolf, give your extra vote to Eomer
If Rikae is innocent, give your extra vote to morm
If Legate is innocent, give your extra vote to Nilp
If Legate is guilty, give your extra vote to Shasta
If Rune is a wolf, give your extra vote to Mith or Kath
If Rune is innocent, give your extra vote to Sally
:mad: :rolleyes: :confused:

the phantom

06-08-2015, 05:14 PM

Ha ha, Lommy just morphed your Shasta votes into Legate = Wolf.

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:14 PM

Sorry, I can't text either.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:16 PM

Excuse me. Forget what I just said. I am afraid I might need to strangle someone else closer to home.
:D :D :D

Sorry, I can't text either.
Boo.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 05:16 PM

There isn't even an option for "none of the above" this is so problematic I love it :D

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:16 PM

At this point we should probably just tie the vote... but we won't be able to with Lottie and Mac around.

Maybe just go with the original plan of Nerwen. So they think Nog is innocent. It could be worse. If they think Legate's a wolf that could throw them way off. Splitting the votes any more would be letting the wolves decide.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:17 PM

So the options now are basically either to vote for Nerwen (even if it may be misinterpreted), or... really nothing. I am not sure if I trust a tie, even though I would like the prospect of a tie as an equivalent to showing the Living that they really messed this up mightily.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:18 PM

Really though, could we make a tie to teach the living a lesson?

Lottie? Mac? Promise you don't mess it up? :Merisu: (Or live with the knowledge that I've stayed up till past 2 because of this nonsense and will be too tired to work and that's why we can't have human rights.)

the phantom

06-08-2015, 05:19 PM

Sorry for asking, but what's the vote thus far on this thread?

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:19 PM

There isn't even an option for "none of the above" this is so problematic I love it :D
Glad it at least makes someone happy.
Maybe just go with the original plan of Nerwen. So they think Nog is innocent. It could be worse. If they think Legate's a wolf that could throw them way off. Splitting the votes any more would be letting the wolves decide.
Yep. It could indeed be worse. Nog here or there, it won't really change much, even if he happened not to be innocent.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:19 PM

Sorry for asking, but what's the vote thus far on this thread?

Something like

Greenie -> Nerwen
Nog -> Nerwen
Rikae -> Shasta

That should be about it.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:20 PM

I think it's

Greenie - Nerwen
Nog - Nerwen 2
Rikae - Shasta

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Loslote

06-08-2015, 05:20 PM

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:21 PM

And if Nerwen doesn't vote and it means there is no empower, even better. No message to muddle things up.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:21 PM

Also it looks like they haven't even settled on it yet. For god's sake... :rolleyes:

I won't be surprised at all if there's a wolf or two there trying to be "helpful".

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:22 PM

I wish I hadn't voted so quick but I wanted to let Agan and Legate vote and go to bed.

Aganzir

06-08-2015, 05:23 PM

i wish i hadn't voted so quick but i wanted to let agan and legate vote and go to bed.
<3

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:23 PM

Also it looks like they haven't even settled on it yet. For god's sake... :rolleyes:

I won't be surprised at all if there's a wolf or two there trying to be "helpful".

If it were just Americans I could see them not being aware of how late it is over there, but what is Lommy thinking?

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:24 PM

And if Nerwen doesn't vote and it means there is no empower, even better. No message to muddle things up.
That's true.
Also it looks like they haven't even settled on it yet. For god's sake... :rolleyes:

I won't be surprised at all if there's a wolf or two there trying to be "helpful".
That's also true.
I wish I hadn't voted so quick but I wanted to let Agan and Legate vote and go to bed.
And sorry about that. Well! Given that I said an hour and half ago that I am going to vote in 15 minutes and go to sleep... :rolleyes: So much for sleep.

I think that's just it. Nerwen and going. I'll brush my teeth and then vote.

Macalaure

06-08-2015, 05:27 PM

Well, well, this might get interesting after all. :p

Loslote

06-08-2015, 05:28 PM

Well, well, this might get interesting after all. :p

Temporary alliance, fiend?

the phantom

06-08-2015, 05:29 PM

Messages that are true.

Vote Nilp to say legate is innocent.
Vote Lommy to say TP is innocent.

Saying anything else would be false.

Needs to vote soon:
Legate (innocent)
Agan (innocent)
Lalaith (?)
Rune (?)

Left to Vote:
Mac (Wolf)
Lottie (Wolf)
TP (innocent)
Firefoot (innocent)

Current voting:
Nerwen: 2
Shasta: 1

Currently we're lying to them, and I don't see a way to unlie to them without everyone voting for Nilp immediately (and trusting that either Rune or Lalaith would help with the effort).

Or do the same with Lommy, with the understanding that we wouldn't be telling the village anything they don't already know.

Macalaure

06-08-2015, 05:32 PM

Temporary alliance, fiend?

Sure! :D

Rikae

06-08-2015, 05:33 PM

Of course, if they think Nog is innocent and there really is one pack completely dead, they may base a whole lot of nonsense on the assumption one of the rest of us is a wolf.

So that could be bad as well.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-08-2015, 05:34 PM

Well, well, this might get interesting after all. :p

Rikae, strangle him for me, be so kind. (Okay, what is it with this violent vocabulary now, maybe I should have been the special role Boro claims to be.)

Currently we're lying to them, and I don't see a way to unlie to them without everyone voting for Nilp immediately (and trusting that either Rune or Lalaith would help with the effort).

I don't trust Nilp to give him vote (especially as some are contemplating voting him and thus it's fairly likely he'll be voting to save his skin, so we would effectively be giving our votes to a random person who just happens to have the most votes after Nilp. THAT MUST NOT HAPPEN!!!).

And it is really possible Nerwen is not going to be back before DL. So our vote would disappear anyway.