Tol-in-Guarhoth CIX - Ten Year Anniversary Game: Dead Thread

[Kuruharan]

POST GAME EDIT: Living Thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18895), Agan's Memorable Post List (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=700004&postcount=1680)

First off, GAH, I forgot to put the number in the title of the Living Thread.

Bad me!

Second...

This is the Dead Thread for the Tenth Anniversary Barrow Downs Werewolf Game.

If you are a Living Player, you cannot come in the way is shut. Reading further constitutes cheating.

If you are dead, the doors open for you and in you go like it or not.








































































Welcome.

Dead players may read this entire thread and continue to read the main game thread. You may, however, only post here. You may post here NIGHT and DAY. By DAY, after there are three residents here, you may vote for a Living Player to be given a double vote for that DAY's lynch. The Living Player will not know of this until after the fact, but it will be clearly stated in the post-DAY narration who had their vote doubled.

Every NIGHT after there are three residents here you may vote for me to reveal the alignment of one dead player which I will state as PREDATOR or PREY.

The deadline is 10PM US Eastern.

Participation is optional.

As in the Living Thread, ties result in nothing happening.

And...if you ARE still alive, stop it. You will live in shame for the rest of your days if you cheat and you know it!

The Dead
many names will be here soon

[Kuruharan]

A sudden stirring in the mist.

A light appeared.

The place had a resident.

A bit lonely, but there is some equipment and materials over there in the corner. You might as well redeem the time and make a little place for yourself while you wait for others to join you.

There is also cake.

You can be sure that others will join you.

Either way, you may speak or be silent as you wish...starting...NOW!

*POOF*

The Missing or Dead:
Kuruharan
Nogrod

The Living:
Formendacil
Rikae
satansaloser2005
Macalaure
Gwathagor
McCaber
Loslote
Boromir88
Aganzir
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Firefoot
Thinlómien
Lalaith
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Shastanis Althreduin
Legate of Amon Lanc
the phantom
Mithalwen
A Little Green
Kath

[Nogrod]

Cosy... and the cake is good, thank you - but a bit lonely indeed. Well, that's going to be mended pretty soon.

Two things: not because they are super-important but because, well because I can post to this thread.

It's interesting to see this game never changes. So if you are a) a vocal player and b) you are of some mind on any issue (aka. most people know that you play in the first place and what you think in general) then the chances that you get lynched on D1 will be very high.

But as lynching doesn't mean getting kicked out of the game this time, I'm pretty happy with it. In this thread it is at least possible to play as we have at least some information unlike the Living thread were they'll basically be shooting in the dark all the time (unless they receive visitors).

Secondly I'd like to see the faces of those innocents who backed an organized voting of sorts (were there any innocents involved, is another question?) when they see how smoothly all went in the end with the last minute cacophony. :rolleyes:

There are too many moving pieces for any village to orchestrate a voting - unless there is a believable seer dream or the number of villagers vs. the number of roles known -ratio is good enough (in a small enough setting of course - not with 20+ players, ever).


Okay. I'm probably getting company at an hour I'm still sleeping so I'll probably post something later before I go to sleep just for you other dead to think about.

[Kuruharan]

Just as a note: Results of the NIGHTly alignment vote will be posted immediately so that the Dead will have that alignment information in hand for the next DAY.

It's interesting to see this game never changes.

DAY 1 is often pretty crazy toward the end.

Hopefully this game will also have some pretty crazy days left to come. :p

[Nogrod]

So here’s my two cents on some general issues we’d need to tackle on this first Day here together. Basically I think we have two issues: whom of us to check during the Night to come and whom to give the double-vote by Day and on which grounds – and what kind of problems there will be to make the double-vote significant in a benefical way. I would call the tasks “gathering information” and “influencing the game”.


Gathering information

With the best/worst case scenario there will be three people entering the afterworld during every Day-Night –cycle – in which time we are able to check the alignment of just one. So we will be actually knowing very little indeed. I mean even if there’d be Days with no lynch or if one Night-kill would fail to happen it will take only a few D-N –cycles when we have a situation where we only know the identities of let’s say 3 in comparison to 9 unknowns. It is not so good I kind of hoped for (yeah I really hadn’t too much time to check the rules that well before the game started).

But whom to check then with our precious few opportunities to do that?

Obviously we should pay heed to which solid knowledge could help the village the most if / when someone comes here to pay a visit and will resurrect back to the Living to share the news.

Also if someone has acted very suspiciously in the Living Thread (or is the phantom) or we have other strong reasons to believe someone is a wolf (like s/he acts suspiciously here) that person should be our number one candidate for checking.

But what if we don’t have a clear candidate – or don’t agree on one (in the end we’ll vote, of course)? Are there any other grounds for choosing the person whose alignment to reveal? I mean that might be something we need to ponder now early in the game – unless we get enough controversial people here…

Just looking a bare numbers one might think the lynched are slightly more probably wolves than the Night kills so checking them would be more benefical. Then again the wolves can sway the lynch-vote (which I think could have happened on D1), especially in this game where there are no evident traces left from any last minute mate-saving efforts. So the wolves seem to be better in saving their mates from lynching this time which would mean the Night kills would be the more probable source of wolves pouring in here?

It’s hard to say. I kind of hoped this thinking would have led me into some decent advice we could take when in doubt – but sadly it doesn ‘t seem to be that way.


Influencing the game

After reading the rules more carefully I found another setback here (the other being that we don’t know so much I thought, discussed above). Our ability to influnce the vote is more or less random – and in no way have we control over what happens in the lynching of the Living Thread unless by chance as the last minute frenzy might turn the voting to whichever direction – and later on when we have more people here the same frenzy will spread to this thread as well.

It will come as no suprise to you I didn’t like the phantom’s grand plan on D1 and even if I do admit it has some merit in principle (as a nice thought-experiment) it is in no way executable (the suggestion can be found from #34). First of all it is questionable we get that kind of a nice setting where we can pick from three different person from both sides of the lynchees with an unanimous understanding of the way the Living will interpret it. Secondly the last minute mayhem will prove a problem here as well as the majority of the votes could be coming in at the last minutes and there might just not be time to elaborate the “rules of interpretation” not to say being able to execute the correct vote from this thread.

So I’d say we try – at least on the early days – to just give an extra vote to someone who is voting for someone we think is more probably a wolf than not. It would be a nice bonus if there would be someone we think of as a particularly innocent voting that person we suspect and give our extra-vote to her/him to kind of show whom we tend to trust that person (later on we might actually have some real reasons to trust someone or suspect someone – reasons the living don’t have).


~*~

I do not like to try and set anything in stone or make rules to ourselves as the game can surprise and we can’t foresee all the situations that will emerge – but I hope these thoughts could serve as the beginning of our discussion on D2 when we have to decide whom to give the extra vote – and N3 when we need to select one of us to be revealed.

A few Days and Nights from now the situation might be something we can’t even imagine now it being.

Btw. as an European (although an European on semi-vacation) I am not able to hang out around the DL (the DL is 5am here), so I’ll be withdrawing something like 3-4 hours before the DL the latest – in principle.


Looking forwards having company here! (I should be around in something like 12 hours from now - like six hours after the Day starts)

[Kuruharan]

The first denizen, having eaten some cake, left a message for those that came after and then had settled into quietude.

New lights disturbed the mist, victims of murders most foul.

They will probably have much to discuss with each other...

The Missing or Dead:
Kuruharan
Nogrod
the phantom
Rune Son of Bjarne

The Living:
Formendacil
Rikae
satansaloser2005
Macalaure
Gwathagor
McCaber
Loslote
Boromir88
Aganzir
Nerwen
Firefoot
Thinlómien
Lalaith
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Shastanis Althreduin
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
A Little Green
Kath

Those of you who are new, welcome! Try the cake. Here we have cake AND death!

Kick back and enjoy watching the antics of the Living Thread.

Remember to vote for somebody to empower with a double vote!

Housekeeping Note: I will always post the Dead Thread narrations before the Living Thread.

[the phantom]

But as lynching doesn't mean getting kicked out of the game this time, I'm pretty happy with it.
Indeed. And didn't I say I'd be making my way to the Dead without your fanning the lynching flames?
I'll be an asset to whatever thread I'm in, Noggie. If you really want me in the Dead thread...

Hey Wolves. Kill me tonight. Ranger. Do not protect me.

There. We'll see if that works.

But no, I'm not going to volunteer for lynching. Totally pointless.
And just so you know, I'm operating under the assumption that any Wolf would be desperate to kill me in case I'm in the opposing pack.
Yeah, I figured I'd be Night killed promptly. With two packs running around it was basically a certainty. Someone loud like me always says enough that either they see a good opportunity to frame someone or they get worried about something.

Anyway, I see you didn't enter the Dead thread with a rant about why we shouldn't have killed our precious Seer/Ranger/etc. so I'm just going to assume you're a Wolf. :p

Okay, okay... maybe a 5% chance you're an Ordo. :D
(Well actually a 50% chance given the village population on Day 1.)

Heh heh- I'd really love to check you tonight, but if the Living request the identity of someone else (Rune, me, today's lynch) then I'll probably just go along with it. We'll see.

Anyway, no reason for us to stop playing, right? Soon enough this thread will be the lively one (in the posting sense). So, I will do a bit of Day 1 analysis after I eat and before I go to bed.

[the phantom]

And just so you know, I was quite content with the tie that we forged before Sally tipped the scales and made it a lynch. It's difficult to get a feel for anyone on Day 1 what with all the enthusiasm and nerves and rust etc. and I thought it would be nice to be bailed out with a tie and essentially force the WWs to make the first move. But I'm not waffling on my choice- I was sincere in wishing Nog lynched before Agan and Form.

Form just looked waaaaay too much like an Ordo (but maybe it was just gutsy fantastic play?), and I was slightly worried about Agan being Gifted. Nog on the other hand- I felt he was not Gifted, and more likely a Wolf than Form. In other words, somewhat suspicious and very safe. If it had been entirely in my hands I was probably more suspicious of Firefoot (and I hated her vote), but I didn't feel a campaign against her would amount to much- certainly wouldn't yield enough votes to make things close or even forge a tie.

Anyway, off to eat. See you later.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

And just so you know, I was quite content with the tie that we forged before Sally tipped the scales and made it a lynch. It's difficult to get a feel for anyone on Day 1 what with all the enthusiasm and nerves and rust etc. and I thought it would be nice to be bailed out with a tie and essentially force the WWs to make the first move. But I'm not waffling on my choice- I was sincere in wishing Nog lynched before Agan and Form.

Form just looked waaaaay too much like an Ordo (but maybe it was just gutsy fantastic play?), and I was slightly worried about Agan being Gifted. Nog on the other hand- I felt he was not Gifted, and more likely a Wolf than Form. In other words, somewhat suspicious and very safe. If it had been entirely in my hands I was probably more suspicious of Firefoot (and I hated her vote), but I didn't feel a campaign against her would amount to much- certainly wouldn't yield enough votes to make things close or even forge a tie.


Not that I want to make a habit out of agreeing with you, or backing your perplexing plans, but yeah... uhm I agree.

Form had Ordo written all over him. Personally I did not suspect Agan of being gifted, but she was one of the few people that seemed genuine (as much as that is possible for Agan) to me. I was a lot more weary of people like Lommy, her posted seemed contrived, and her outbursts overdone.

Since I will be otherwise occupied the rest of the day, it is unlikely that I will contribute with major analysis or have time to rummage through what happened yesterday, but I will try to keep an eye on the living thread.

[the phantom]

Ah, welcome to the Dead Thread, Rune. Similar to Nog, since you didn't lead off with "This is disaster! I'm the Seer!" I will assume you're not vital to the village. If it's true that all three of us are ungifted, then really we should be quite happy to be dead.

Anyway, I'm nearly done with my Day 1 readthrough (putting checks and plus signs and Gifted marks etc. next to names as I read...)

[the phantom]

My re-read of yesterday didn't result in thoughts much different than those I already had. Ah well...

Agan- I was mighty suspicious of those that voted for her (or pushed for her) because she gave off more Gifted signs than anyone else. Yes, yes, I realize that Wolves can give off Gifted signs early (pronounced self-interest, self-focus retaliatory suspicions, etc.), but why risk voting for someone on Day 1 that looks likely to have a role?
I marked seven people for possible Gifteds (Nerwen, Nilp, Sally, Boro, Rune, Mith, Agan, Green), but Agan accumulated 5 marks by the end- way more than anyone else. Not to mention that I, early on as a ploy (before she looked so Gifted-ish), tried to hint at Agan being my Lover. Did those attacking her not catch it, or did they totally see what I did and wanted to kill my Lover?

Anyway, that might've been what tipped the scales for going after Nog- because I thought he was the opportunistic sort that might catch such a signal and look to bump off a Gifted. It's why I thought him more Wolfish than Agan, anyway (and Form certainly looked innocent).

Anyway, a list of the living....

Very positive marks currently-
Rikae
Morm
Mith
Form
Boro
Lommy
Agan

Somewhat positive marks currently-
Nilp
Sally
Nerwen

I'm not certain, mixed signals-
Firefoot
Shasta
Eomer
Mac
Green
McCaber
Legate

Suspicious at the moment-
Lalaith
Loslote
Kath

Any speculation as to why Rune and I were killed? Also, if Agan is the Seer it seems she dreamt Lommy and Firefoot overnight and cleared them (and dreamt me and Legate yesterday- wondered if her Nobel Prize comment was a hint that Leggy had a Gifted role, especially when paired with her comment about the Seer finding a Gifted and then hinting to him).

Anyway, possibly pointless to even be speculating on such things with almost no information, but I can't help myself.

[the phantom]

I hope the Living remember that, if they want us to signal information to them tomorrow, they need to tell us who to examine tonight.

I was sort of operating under the assumption they'd want us to check lynch victims (Nog or today's victim) because that would make the vote possibly telling, but interesting that Nilp is confident that the Dead will vote for me. That seems a bit odd in a way- doesn't the identity of a WW kill yield less information to the village? Thus a WW would be interested in learning the identity of a Night kill because (1) it isn't so helpful to the village, and (2) he wants to know if his night kill was a good one.

So yeah, Nilp could be a sneaky WW. And he could also be a Lover (mainly looking at Sally referring to him as "my darling boy" and even bolding the text).

And of course Nerwen today bolded a "my shining star" at Shasta. So maybe them....?

But then Nerwen and Sally both could've been doing the same thing I was doing- just trying to fake being a Lover as an Ordo in order to attract a Nightkill from the WWs to provide cover for the other Gifteds. Anyway...

[the phantom]

I was hoping to have a conversation before bed, but I guess not.

I'll see you two in a few hours.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I was hoping to have a conversation before bed, but I guess not.

I'll see you two in a few hours.

It is a bit difficult, I am sitting in an office environment, with one of the team-leads sitting directly behind me.

Nilp's certainty that we would check your identity seems odd indeed. It must be an example of a person transferring standard WW-logic to a "mandos-style" game (He sees us as still being active players, and one always feel better by knowing your true identity).

I think that the analysis made in the living thread about my death is spot on. My so called "uneasiness" probably lead the wolves to think that I am gifted. I was aware that this might happen, and though self-preservation is my chief motivator, in this particular game I did not care that much.

I have to admit that I did not pick up on your hints, but then again, if I had been a wolf I would probably have read through the posts in greater detail.

[Nogrod]

So it took me longer I thought to come back here, but well, here we are.

You're most welcome Rune & phantom. Nice to have company.

I haven't yet read tp's analysis or checked the living thread (I just thought to pop up to say hi first), but will do so the next before I need to attend some RL-stuff. I'll be able to play more in the evening (our time).


Just commenting on the few things you've said then (Outside tp's analysis -stuff).

I fully agree with Form looking very much an ordo - and I fully disagree with Aganzir looking like one. I even think it possible some of her packmates actually rescued her from lynching with late-votes.

Does Agan's possible guilt make Lommy any better? Nope. It might actually be wolf-on-wolf (from different packs I'd say).


About checking someone here - I'd still wish not to set anything in stone: there are so different situations that sometimes it's best to check someone lynched and sometimes one Nigh-killed. It depends on which knowledge would be most beneficial to the village - or which accumulated pile of knowledge would be the most beneficial.

I mean let's remember that the best thing we can do is hoping for a lover or a ranger to come over (not too early in the game) and take a neat package of info with her/him back to the living.

All this other "let's give an extra-vote to X so they can interpret our message" is peanuts compared to our real chance of affecting the game.

Btw. that actually lessens my interest in checking the phantom (even I kind of swore I would insist on doing that the first thing you come around! :D ) - and it might even be them knowing of my innocence might be our best offer (for them to read the voting on D1) - but let's see who joins us toDay before making any hasty conclusions (and anyway, it's a matter for the Night to discuss whom to check among us).

[Nogrod]

Just a short one... I wouldn't say Aganzir looked like a self-confident gifted-scared but like an overconfident wolf-scared. But yeah, these are hard things to tell from one another unless you have more information.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Okay, I have gone and confused my self.

For some reason I thought we could get to know the allegiance of living players... I am a bit stressed at the moment. :(

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Oooor what if both packs targeted the phantom who was the Hunter and Rune his pick?

Did you do this!?:eek:

Actually, I think it is pretty clear that I was a wolf-kill from the narration.

Anyways, the dead should rule the living! But as Nogrod and others have stated, that will be very difficult, with most of the voting being done just before the deadline. In most cases I will have to vote some 5-6 hours before deadline... The next few days being possible exceptions.

I won't be in front of a computer until perhaps just before deadline today, but if I can I will check in via my portable communication device.

[the phantom]

I'm disappointed in the Living thus far. A lot of folks have been rather absent (both yesterday and today) and not enough folks have been quoting the Night kill victims in an attempt to point out why they were killed (in terms of "Because of X they thought he was the Seer, because of Y they thought he was the Ranger" etc.).

I also like phantom. I don't necessarily find him innocent but I like him. Hey phants I missed you.
Right back at you, my lion.
I'm incredibly surprised no one has picked up on that exchange. At least they did quote me "painting the bulls eye" where I was daring the packs to kill me.

But why kill Rune? It was obvious he was busy with RL stuff and he basically didn't declare anyone innocent (except Form when he voted for him, which would seem to undo a defense) and didn't really paint anyone as guilty (he labelled Green as more annoying).

If I was a WW the Seer would be the only viable target in the early going. So I have to ask why Rune would be killed. And what would make me look like a Seer? As someone on the Living thread pointed out I had groups of 4 (rather than 2) at the top and bottom of my list. So no, I don't really think there's good Seer evidence for me.

So that leaves (1) truthful kill and (2) misleading kill. In other words, one pack could've targeted me because I somewhat suspected all three of them, or because I felt good about all three of them. But of course if option 2 was the case I'd expect one of the pack to hint as much on the thread (suggest I was killed for having correct suspicions to see if others would latch onto it).

Oh, and Rune- if I had been the Hunter I would've chosen ++Phantom as my Hunt victim in the early going, until I had some information to go on.

[Nogrod]

Why I tend to think you tp might not be a wolf just now? Exactly because Rune is the other one killed last Night.

I mean some people when they are wolves want to make confusion-killings by killing someone nobody expects and whose death leads the village into totally wrong tracks (even I can appreciate that tactic early in the game if there just isn't anyone you'd get seer-vibes from), but like you (and a tons of players during WW-history - myself included) have said: it's the seer, the seer, the seer, the wolves want and need to pick, the sooner the better. And in this game it is doubly important as otherwise the villagers are more or less in total darkness but the seer gets double-dreams.

Had it been you tp and Aganzir here as my company, I'd think differently about your lycantrophy. But yes, I see little reason in your team of wolves picking Rune - or your team to not pick Aganzir as your Nightkill (unless you are mates of course - which I'm not counting totally off as a possibility).

If I was a wolf and Aganzir was not on my wolf-pack I'd sure have tried to kill her: whether she'd be a competing wolf or a gifted - positive outcome for my wolf-pack both ways.

Might I add a third explanation for the Night kill of Mr. phantom? It might have been nothing you said or seemed to know or think on D1. It might have been just them removing you from the list of the living as a possibly dangerous rival wolf / influential villager aka. as someone who might thwart their plans later on or just leaving the village without one loud, sharp and critical voice to better orchestrate their schemes?

[the phantom]

It might have been just them removing you from the list of the living as a possibly dangerous rival wolf / influential villager aka. as someone who might thwart their plans later on or just leaving the village without one loud, sharp and critical voice to better orchestrate their schemes?
It did occur to me, but I sort of have that idea on hold for now seeing as no one has really stood up and tried to lead the village on a terrible tactical path. But I suppose that wouldn't be seen until Day 3 anyway seeing as the Dead have no info to give them today. Okay, so yes, that is a possibility to keep the eyes open for.

And in the meantime, we're just killing time until the voting gets rolling. We can't take action until they do, so it's a waiting game. Bleh.

[the phantom]

And of course Nerwen today bolded a "my shining star" at Shasta. So maybe them....?
And today Shasta signaled back, similarly in bold "my sun in splendour". So like I said, a possible Lover combo, and does that make it slightly less likely that they are WWs no matter what? Because would a WW fake being a Lover? Wouldn't that make them a more likely Night kill? I faked a Lover connection because I didn't mind dying, thus I'm itching to extend an innocent label to anyone who does the same, but perhaps I shouldn't?

What do you think?

[Nogrod]

I think the thing between Nerwen and Shasta goes far back and occurs in every game they play, calling each other with over-honeyed terms... So I wouldn't go making any inferences from that.

I've almost read the thread through but need now to prepare some late night dinner for Lommy & Legate who are just coming here after a day of renovating their flat.

Just a few thoughts I've picked along while reading...

It seems Rune’s death is not that odd it felt to me in the first place – or how odd you tp like to paint it.

Aganzir is too careful and observant for her own good (she had thought fex. that tp will call the shots here as both me & Rune are Europeans so that you tp most probably get the final say). Also she is backing Sally whom I tend to suspect for several reasons.

I'm a bit uneasy with Greenie and Lottie

(That's like without reading the last page through)

And you're right. There's little to do before people start voting - except to try and collect our thoughts...

See you soonish (aka. an hour or two).

[the phantom]

Okay, so I have to ask- who are your Seer suspects?

Fact is, since Agan is one of the only sensible possibilities at the moment, how can we justify putting her under the gun.

In this game format everything is an absolute mess.
1) You can't tell if you've lynched a Wolf.
2) You can't tell if a Wolf was night killed.
3) Wolf-on-Wolf means nothing because there are separate packs, therefore voting is less telling than usual.
4) Wolves can't tell if someone looks Seerish because they don't know who all the Wolves are, thus night kill choices aren't as telling as usual.

The fact is, the double-dream Seer is BY FAR the best (maybe the only) thing the village has going for it in terms of making rational decisions, thus our top priority early in the game is NOT lynching WWs, but rather our highest calling is avoiding lynching possible Seers.

So even if Agan is 75% likely to be a WW, I still wouldn't kill her if she is 25% likely to be the Seer.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Oh, and Rune- if I had been the Hunter I would've chosen ++Phantom as my Hunt victim in the early going, until I had some information to go on.

The narcissistic play, I am not surprised.

[the phantom]

The narcissistic play, I am not surprised.
Heh, I wouldn't say that. Rather, the cautious play. As a Hunter I'd be much more terrified of blowing it than excited about the prospect of hitting it, if you follow.

As I said earlier, this village is rather blind so as a Hunter I'd almost feel like I was more of a threat to the village than to the Wolves. Well, statistically speaking that's true!

Thus I would hunt ++myself because I'd be scared of accidentally killing someone valuable. A Hunter is much more of an asset late in the game because (1) he can reveal & be ruled out, (2) Baddies may be afraid to kill him after the reveal thus he possibly survives that night to be a known innocent the following day as well (3) the percentage of hitting a Baddie increases as the village population decreases. So my Hunter strategy would be to refuse to use my Gift and try to stay alive long enough to make my Gift a factor.

[the phantom]

Anyway, while we're waiting around we should share music/sports/humor links on YouTube or something. And make the innocent wonder why on earth the Dead thread is so active. :D

Also, did anyone notice the first letters of Boro's first three posts? F-B-I

It's almost certainly coincidence, but those are the sort of things I look at just in case.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Det Heh, I wouldn't say that. Rather, the cautious play. As a Hunter I'd be much more terrified of blowing it than excited about the prospect of hitting it, if you follow.

As I said earlier, this village is rather blind so as a Hunter I'd almost feel like I was more of a threat to the village than to the Wolves. Well, statistically speaking that's true!

Thus I would hunt ++myself because I'd be scared of accidentally killing someone valuable. A Hunter is much more of an asset late in the game because (1) he can reveal & be ruled out, (2) Baddies may be afraid to kill him after the reveal thus he possibly survives that night to be a known innocent the following day as well (3) the percentage of hitting a Baddie increases as the village population decreases. So my Hunter strategy would be to refuse to use my Gift and try to stay alive long enough to make my Gift a factor.

This level of empathy And matureness does not become you.

[Nogrod]

I'm having hard times believing Aganzir to be the seer (in which I can of course be wrong). She looks nervously confident and scheming and (too)cognizant (too well informed), not seerish. But yeah, I need to go back to do some reading again.

Also, did anyone notice the first letters of Boro's first three posts? F-B-I

It's almost certainly coincidence, but those are the sort of things I look at just in case.Nice pick! :)

How about the Champions League final on Saturday? Do the Spanish billionaires continue dominating the field or has Juve what it takes to kick them off the trophy?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I'm having hard times believing Aganzir to be the seer (in which I can of course be wrong). She looks nervously confident and scheming and (too)cognizant (too well informed), not seerish. But yeah, I need to go back to do some reading again.

Nice pick! :)

How about the Champions League final on Saturday? Do the Spanish billionaires continue dominating the field or has Juve what it takes to kick them off the trophy?

So The Old Lady is more likeable because she got caught?

[the phantom]

This level of empathy And matureness does not become you.
Ha ha! But really, people ought to know that my ego is not my defining feature in Werewolf- rather it's an everpresent humorous sidebar. My defining feature is- I want to win. Nothing else gets in the way of that. (e.g. the last Dead Thread game where I was a Cobbler, some thought my ego was getting in the way because I didn't want to be lynched as a Cobbler, but in fact what was really going on was I was trying to clinch the win by lynching the Hunter and having her kill me- it was purely about tactics).
How about the Champions League final on Saturday? Do the Spanish billionaires continue dominating the field or has Juve what it takes to kick them off the trophy?
Well, I'm fine with Barc winning if Messi puts on a show as he did a few days ago. But really England has won it a couple times semi-recently (Man & Chelsea) and Italy and Germany have both won it, so I wouldn't call Spain's run too dominant.
I'm having hard times believing Aganzir to be the seer (in which I can of course be wrong). She looks nervously confident and scheming and (too)cognizant (too well informed), not seerish.
But the Seer is well informed, right? The WWs know three roles, whereas the Seer currently knows five. The Seer is the most informed.

And if not her as Seer, who else?

[Nogrod]

It's just that the Spanish billionires have won basically everything the last two decades (except what Bayern has taken from them) and it would be nice someone else did for a change.

[the phantom]

Note: have to conduct some business, but I won't be gone particularly long. In case you have to go to bed before I'm back, just, you know, keep an eye on the Living for reveals in need of saving etc. and vote smart. (I would say don't vote at all and leave it entirely in my hands, I'd probably prefer it, but if only one of you is innocent it would ensure a tie and even if you're both innocent you probably don't trust me quite enough to do that, ah well.)

[Nogrod]

But the Seer is well informed, right? The WWs know three roles, whereas the Seer currently knows five. The Seer is the most informed.

And if not her as Seer, who else?Yes, but the seer works alone - one who can discuss things with other good players is much more widely understanding of the different aspects of a situation in a totally weird game like this.

I don't know who else, but could you give me a reason to believe she actually is the seer - I mean if we just stick with this kind of meta-arguments (nervous, tries to hide or not make any controversies etc.) they ill include half the village - well third or fourth at least.

I see you tp backing her very consistently and it might be you're right and she's the seer and you're a bright ordo guessing that correctly. But I think there is another explanation which puts you two in the same pack... with probably Boro as the third? (Okay the last one is kind of a result of two things I read within a short interval - your neat way of noticing Boro had this FBI and Boro's post #286 in the living thread which would fit nicely if you three were a pack together.)

The biggest trouble is, I'm not too confident I would have managed to spot one whole wolf-trio on Day2... and I am totally aware it might be just totally wrong. But it is the most coherent explanation for several things that have happened I can come up thus far.

But we can check people here and need not get caught in unnecessary pointing at fingers here. So let's continue the discussion. (And I'll try to reach the flow of the living thread)

[Nogrod]

My bedtime is approaching... And a terrible thought occured to me. So if Rune is not able to come back before the DL and I and the phantom disagree on whom to give the extra-vote, the draw will then mean no extra-vote to anyone?

Kuru, could you confirm that? (I'll PM that as well.)

It might not be that terrible toDay as we have little to go, but later in the game when it might be important - and we might actually know something (or have some good reasons to think something) it might be important.

[the phantom]

I don't know who else, but could you give me a reason to believe she actually is the seer -
Well, as I said, she could easily be a WW, yes, but the fact that she seems to be something is why I don't want her dead. Plus, if she is something the real Seer would be attracted to her & out her anyway and keeping her alive yet under the gun may lead to telling clues as to her packmates.

Anyway, possible reasons she was the Seer from yesterday-
I like Rikae and phantom and won't be voting for either today.
Perhaps that would be the dream duo? Both innocent.
Then she wasn't afraid to emphasize me today.
but it saddens me that phants is gone.
And again...
I'm quite positive phantom was innocent
So confirming her initial innocent dream.

And from today-
First off I owe an apology to Lommy.
So she suspected her after yesterday but dreamed her innocent over night then.
I've never played with Firefoot before so it feels daring to say this, but she feels quite innocent to me.
And her second dream was Firefoot and she found her innocent. I suspected FF as well so she makes sense as a dream.

So anyway, that's why she's a good Seer candidate. (But also a good WW candidate since a WW would want to pave for a false reveal to delay her lynching.)

But wow, her most recent post is crazy (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=697484&postcount=336)!

[the phantom]

Also, sadly Rikae will be passing me after another 8 posts. :(

I was hoping to be the posting leader in both threads! :D

[Nogrod]

I'm not having my eyes gleaming to get Aganzir lynched toDay. It could be another "saving private Agan" -train could be very informative to the Living thread (as it now seems she's gathering a lot of votes). And if she is the Seer, she'll call for the Ranger who would be stupid - without a reasonable-sounding counter-reveal - to ignore the call. So a decent amount of dreams would be saved anyway.

Your picks on her hints to her dreams are pretty decent indeed - although I'd not be surprised if you had that all planned beforehand (like Boro's FBI -thingy). Had I just found them myself I might have been impressed of my findings, but when they are coming from you whom I still do suspect before your status is established, then sorry, I need to take them with a pinch of salt just because I know you love exactly this kind of games and pre-planned stuff.

That said, I'm not sure if the possible failure from our part to make a difference of one vote toDay is anything really bad. But I would really like to know your alignment tp. With it a lot of things might become easier - fex. I'd be looking at Aganzir (and Boro) with a lot less suspicion were you established innocent (or "prey" as Kuru has decided to call us).

But whom to give the vote then? Let me think a moment... or let's discuss the options if either of you are around.

[the phantom]

On second thought seeing her list maybe Rikae wasn't her other dream but rather Legate with a Gifted role as I first thought?... I dunno...She's been consistently on both of their sides, yes?

But she has Lommy on her guilty list again even though she apologized. Weird. But she's been consistent enough on Ff and I... Bleh.

(Note: She just clarified that she never cleared Lommy, so maybe I need to look again?)

[Nogrod]

Btw. Aganzir's list (#346) doesn't quite fit with your idea tp.

I mean yeah, it shouldn't be one to one with her knowledge. It's understandable she'd need to make it not look like exactly the same she actually knows aka. she should bring in more people to the different categories, but if she was giving up non-list hints they should be consistent with her actual list - and at least Lommy is in a totally different place from your interpretation - so we have one dream missing? (I mean if she wanted to be consistent - which you'd need to be if you're wishing the ones coming after you're dead can rely on your points) If she wasn't the Seer that all would make sense?

Yeah, maybe she dreamt of Rune and couldn't then make anything of it toDay in her list (like she couldn't make anything of you tp as you're dead)? But it would be a coincidence indeed she dreamt of both people who got Nightkilled, especially when you tp thought it was a far fetched thing or a shot in the dark for the one wolf-pack to pick Rune - so she just somehow managed to make that very same very improbable choice? :smokin:

[Nogrod]

It's nice that we post rarely and in slow speed - but still manage to cross-post even pretty short ones... :)

[the phantom]

That said, I'm not sure if the possible failure from our part to make a difference of one vote toDay is anything really bad. But I would really like to know your alignment tp.
Ungifted prey. I wouldn't admit to ungifted on the Living thread but I'll do it here just to set the innocent at ease.

But really I can't believe the Living haven't been debating who they want us to check. That ticks me off, because the only way we can transfer info is if they ask us a question about someone we actually checked! Someone needs to step up and take the lead and basically fill my shoes on the Living thread.

If the decision is left entirely to us... Frankly I don't know who I'd pick, but I do know I'd pick a lynch victim as opposed to a night kill. But a lot can happen these last two hours so maybe our decision will be made for us.

[Kuruharan]

If votes in either thread are tied, nothing happens.

[the phantom]

Well drat, another player has exited (Gwath to join Steve and Kitanna). We need a break to go our way.

Anyway, boys, I'll be back soonish (leaving for home).

[Nogrod]

But really I can't believe the Living haven't been debating who they want us to check. That ticks me off, because the only way we can transfer info is if they ask us a question about someone we actually checked! Someone needs to step up and take the lead and basically fill my shoes on the Living thread.Well Boro is doing his best to hammer in the view we should not check your alignment. (Two times now being his major point in a post - which he doesn't make too many)

[Nogrod]

Votes now...

Lottie -> Morm
Nerwen -> Mac
Greenie -> Aganzir
Lalaith -> Aganzir2
Lommy -> Aganzir3
Legate -> Greenie
McCaber -> Aganzir4
Morm -> Mac

If Aganzir really is a seer she'd be a real gambler not calling it and just going to sleep instead.

In a normal game she might gamble, it's like her, but probably not with this special game with this big village relying on her (were she the seer that is) - and for a wolf a false-reveal this early into the game would be pretty bad so I'm not expecting her to do that if she is a wolf (a false reveal exposes one of the three to everyone - including the rival wolfgang).

Gah... I need to go to sleep but this is getting interesting.

[the phantom]

Well Boro is doing his best to hammer in the view we should not check your alignment. (Two times now being his major point in a post - which he doesn't make too many)
Well, if his FBI thing was a hint (I am someone who does investigations aka Seer) then that could mean he dreamed me and thus revealing my identity would be rather useless to him.

Or, as I saw him say earlier, perhaps he truly does have so much faith in his ability to know my character, i.e. if Phantom is painting a target on himself then he's an Ordo. It's perfectly true. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have checked me just in case. Meh, I'd better look at him a bit & see what else there is to see...

[the phantom]

Uh oh.
But if I die I'll at least get to be with the only person who understands me. :Merisu:
.... Um

[the phantom]

Okay, quickly- what are the scenarios for a possible false Lover reveal?

Would a WW do it to preserve herself? (probably, but any unseen ramifications?)

Would a Seer try to look like a Lover to preserve herself (and make it less likely the WWs would target her since Lover is lower priority than Seer)?

Geez, I really hope no Livings are reading this accidentally, ha ha! It's weird that I keep thinking that. Does that mean I have an inherent distrust of people, ha ha!

[the phantom]

Basically, if she false reveals as a Lover is it up to us to lynch her, or is it up to the real Lovers to combat her, or is it up to us not to spoil her ploy, or do we just leave her to the Wolves?

Gah.

[Nogrod]

Well, if his FBI thing was a hint (I am someone who does investigations aka Seer) then that could mean he dreamed me and thus revealing my identity would be rather useless to him.Or if you two had planned this nice little trick on N1 together it would prove now very handy indeed. :cool:

My dilemma now of course is that I need to go and Aganzir's alignment is very much in doubt. If she reveals - then I think she is genuinely the seer - if she doesn't = she's highly probably a wolf. Or then she stays up to see if there is a counter-wagon to save her at the last minute (or to reveal at the last minute) - and in that case I'm not able to do the same (I really need to go to sleep).


Both Aganzir and Boro can't be seers though. :smokin:

[Nogrod]

Basically, if she false reveals as a Lover is it up to us to lynch her, or is it up to the real Lovers to combat her, or is it up to us not to spoil her ploy, or do we just leave her to the Wolves?

Gah.Hard to say... That would require some thinking I seem to be less and less capable of right now as I just try to figure what to do with our extra-vote.

[the phantom]

Both Aganzir and Boro can't be seers though
Indeed. But either way I'm innocent. :p

[Nogrod]

Is Boro-wolf telling his mate Agan-wolf to take it like a man/woman? :rolleyes:

I'm getting more confused instead of getting good ideas...


Actually I'm still waiting for a vote that could be my saviour aka. someone I think more innocent than not voting for someone I think pretty suspicious. Then I could vote for giving the extra vote for that person - and you two could then follow the rest and make the final decision (if Agan reveals / something drastic happens).

[the phantom]

Boro suspects Agan, right? I mean- his most recent post seems pretty presumptuous (you've been caught, lassie, best give it up!). And he's asked us to check Nog three or so times.

So does that mean he's dreamed Agan and Nog, or that he dreamed A but not N and thus is truly curious about N (but not curious of TP because he already dreamed me). But no, I don't think he did dream me because he said "assume" I'm innocent (I think) and left open the Wolfish possibility. If he's the Seer he's playing things smart and keeping out of the line of fire. Definitely nothing definitive.

Which does make me wonder if a Seer would be nearly so bold as Agan has been.

[the phantom]

Well it looks like Agan is leaving her fate in the village's hands... No reveal.

[the phantom]

It sort of surprises me that Agan didn't reveal. Why not, at this stage? Just on the off chance that the 2nd leading candidate is the Seer/Ranger and can get them lynched instead, you know?

[the phantom]

Things have sort of slowed down, so for your entertainment.

For no reason. (https://youtu.be/DPKQwfIe5YQ)

And these two teams (https://youtu.be/PttKq0GcnoQ) are sure to be relegated to a lower league next season.

[the phantom]

Thus far the voting-

Lottie - morm
Nerwen - Mac
Greenie - Agan
Lalaith - Agan (2)
Lommy - Agan (3)
Legate - Greenie
McCab - Agan (4)
morm - Mac (2)
Agan - Green (2)

[Kuruharan]

Things have sort of slowed down, so for your entertainment.

For no reason. (https://youtu.be/DPKQwfIe5YQ)

And these two teams (https://youtu.be/PttKq0GcnoQ) are sure to be relegated to a lower league next season.

Finally, the first two youtube links. I was beginning to worry what I'd done to offend everyone.

(or "prey" as Kuru has decided to call us)

The Lord High Scorekeeper has called the innocent/uninformed that for years. :p

[Nogrod]

Okay.

If Aganzir actually reveals herself to be the Seer I'm not willing to vote for anyone voting her toDay as if one of you two is a wolf he could easily pile up on my vote and make sure Agan dies.

I don't think this scenario a probable one (Agan being the Seer) but it is possible - and it would be a darn big mistake from us if we decided the close vote in the Living Thread killing the Seer, especially with this little to go on.

On the other hand, if something drastic happens - and one of you two is a wolf - then I'd hate to leave it totally into your hands as the wolf could have a strong influence over our extra-vote (or it not happening). So I feel like I need to vote for someone.

If you're both goodies you can override my vote if you get some fresh knowledge I do not have now. And if not, then I have at least made it a bit harder (hopefully) for the lycanthrope to achieve his goal.


But this leaves me now with only:

- Lottie (voting Morm) - and I suspect Lottie quite a lot - and Morm a little.

- Nerwen (voting Mac) - where I basically distrust Nerwen in every game as she's soo cool a wolf and even if I feel kind of good about Mac I can see why many people suspect him - and share the feeling at least partly.

- Legate (voting Greenie) - now I'm totally torn with this: I kind of see what Legate means and am very much troubled by Greenie, but like someone said in the Living thread, it could be a perfect Wolf-tactics to go for someone no one else suspects and look reasonable & out of the fights that get noticed.

- Morm (voting Mac) - like you can gather from the above, I seem to suspect them both, but not as much as some others...


~'~

Haha... it seems Aganzir didn't "reveal".

Torn now (once again).

Could vote for Lalaith (seems innocentish enough) voting Aganzir, or maybe Legate voting Greenie.


EDIT: X'd with many...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Things have sort of slowed down, so for your entertainment.

For no reason. (https://youtu.be/DPKQwfIe5YQ)

And these two teams (https://youtu.be/PttKq0GcnoQ) are sure to be relegated to a lower league next season.
Was one of those cans upside down?

[Nogrod]

Any thoughts Rune as to whom to give an extra-vote?

Someone voting Aganzir to try and make sure she comes here or someone voting for a more suspicious person from your POV?

I'll be around for ten minutes mayhaps... then need to sleep (4am ticked just now).

[the phantom]

Question- would Seer Agan exit the thread without making things clear? I doubt it.

So does that mean we shouldn't consider her fate when assigning a vote (simply give a vote to someone we like)?

Meh. I'm going to turn on some NBA and keep my eyes on both.

[Nogrod]

Question- would Seer Agan exit the thread without making things clear? I doubt it.Exactly my thoughts...

[Nogrod]

Oh, the finals have started... (wonder if I could see them here from somewhere)

And now Kuru is trumpeting something weird... :eek: (goodbye sleep then?)

[Nogrod]

Gah, maybe it was just a joke made after the fact he declared Gwath gone...

[Kuruharan]

Gah, maybe it was just a joke made after the fact he declared Gwath gone...

Alas, I was just making fun of myself for forgetting to do the silly thing I had planned before the game.

[Nogrod]

I kind of gathered that, but thanks for confirming.

I found the NBA finals! (Goodbye sleep again...)

I did not find a resolution to my voting problem. Any argued suggestions are welcome.

Right now I'd say we help them lynch Aganzir (I'd suggest Lottie for the person who gets the extra-vote) or vote Legate to give Greenie one more.

Or if there is a sudden Lottie / Sally bandwagon? I might go for those as well...

What do you think?

[the phantom]

Or if there is a sudden Lottie / Sally bandwagon? I might go for those as well...
Possibly. Both have a couple check-marks next to their names (they've sounded bad on occasion).

But since we don't have any information to signal, is there any chance that we'd want to use our vote to force a WW kill away from Gifteds. For instance, we think Form is probably an Ordo, so we give him our confidence (extra vote) and perhaps our trust in him leads the WWs to target him?

Or is that too far out there as a ploy?

[Nogrod]

But since we don't have any information to signal, is there any chance that we'd want to use our vote to force a WW kill away from Gifteds. For instance, we think Form is probably an Ordo, so we give him our confidence (extra vote) and perhaps our trust in him leads the WWs to target him?

Or is that too far out there as a ploy?Well smart wolves know we don't actually know anything toDay - so any extra-vote we give is not for them a sign of anything concrete.

But do I read you correctly you're still against helping to lynch Aganzir?

What do you think of Greenie - a possible runner-up at least now?

[the phantom]

Has anyone used the "stupid Wolf" ploy today? It was a perfect day for it.

Stupid Wolf Ploy: Examine the Night kills and conclude the Wolf packs were stupid. In this case, say something like, "Ha ha, TP wanted to be killed and they fell for it. And Rune- he wasn't anything. Why on earth would they pick him?"

Because then a WW might feel forced to defend the reasoning. Have you seen anything like that today?

[the phantom]

At this point I almost don't care who we vote for. It might matter who we seem to trust though. Like, if we give the bonus to Lommy and she's the Seer, that wouldn't be good, right? I mean, if Agan is dying anyway, there's no reason to do anything else that might harm the night picks.

[the phantom]

We keep talking on here during the Night phase, yes?

[Kuruharan]

Yes.

I will tell you when the deadline for voting is past. There will obviously be a lag between that and getting some narration. As I said earlier, I will post narration first to this thread before the Living Thread.

Nothing stopping you from talking during all that time.

[Nogrod]

Decision time draws close (and the Cavaliers are dominating the Warriors).

Let's not make it a frenzy in here. It's only 9 votes thus far so there will be some real mayhem in ten minutes.

I've said what I'd think would be the decent things to do. Now how about you two?

[Nogrod]

Because then a WW might feel forced to defend the reasoning. Have you seen anything like that today?Well, that would be a stupid WW... :)

[the phantom]

Lottie - morm
Nerwen - Mac
Greenie - Agan
Lalaith - Agan (2)
Lommy - Agan (3)
Legate - Greenie
McCab - Agan (4)
morm - Mac (2)
Agan - Green (2)
Mac - Agan (5)
Firefoot - Mac (3)
Nilp - Agan (6)

(edit: add Nilp)

Right now I'd consider giving bonus vote to- Lommy, Mac, Rikae, Boro, Mith... but not all of them have even voted.

[the phantom]

My recent back-and-forth with Agan here I was trying to press to her a bit, because she's been dropping signs around that she knows more, or is more than an ordo. And even though there seems to be frustration that her jests have been scrutinized, I was letting her know she should know by now that's how this dance works. Everything comes under scrutiny, and she shouldn't be surprised when she willingly attracts attention that she becomes the focus of the scrutiny.

She stopped short of any reveal (true or false) which could mean she's a wolf and sees the writing on the wall, or has become frustrated to the point that she's ready to join the Dead.
That's what I've been thinking generally.

[the phantom]

Any read on Mith whatsoever? Unknown special role?

Would giving her our vote make Baddies look at her more carefully?

[Nogrod]

Reading the latest, especially by Boro, I'm actually ready to go for someone voting Aganzir.

So whom?

I'd say Lalaith is our best bet.

[the phantom]

I haven't seen enough from Lalaith to trust her. She has two checks on my chart. I think I noted she was "too nice" in post 126... *goes to look*

[the phantom]

Agan is dead no matter what.

We should give our bonus to Gwath, ha ha!! :D :p

[the phantom]

I think I'll vote Lommy unless you want to go Gwath.

[Nogrod]

It's not about who we trust as much as whom we want to be lynched.

We know nothing, don't forget (even if you know something I don't). So it's not that big an issue whom we give it.

++ Lalaith

[the phantom]

++Lommy

For extra power.

[Nogrod]

Did you mange to vote?

Or was it no-vote? IT might have been better...

[the phantom]

No Rune?

[the phantom]

Ha ha. Whatever. We couldn't impact things and we had no info anyway.

Tomorrow should be much less frantic last-minute....

[Kuruharan]

No empowerment from this thread toDAY. :p

[Nogrod]

I think that no-empowerment was a decent result toDay from us - and a nice little warning how easily things go astray also here unless we are more careful.

[the phantom]

No empowerment from this thread toDAY.
Feel free to make fun of our pathetic-ness.

And soon it will be Night. And who to check, Nog or Agan. I suppose we ought to hear from her first.

[Nogrod]

Btw. welcome Aganzir! :)

[Nogrod]

And soon it will be Night. And who to check, Nog or Agan. I suppose we ought to hear from her first.I think there is no question we check you first. Now c'mon... :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

Whatever. Lynches are priority before Night kills. Not to mention I'm the most objectively innocent person in the thread. It was me that led the charge to try and hand the innocent their best possible shot at tangible information and I was Wolf-killed. I am more innocent than you and Agan. ;)

Insisting on checking me just makes me think you're keen to waste our Night-check ability.

[Kuruharan]

The mists parted and revealed the figure of Aganzir moving toward the assembled group.

They offered Aganzir some of the cake and then began the process of probing their true natures....

But...what was this...the mists stir again..? This wasn't supposed to happen!!!!

What is A Little Green doing here?!

The Missing or Dead:
Kuruharan
Nogrod
the phantom
Rune Son of Bjarne
Aganzir
A Little Green

The Living:
Formendacil
Rikae
satansaloser2005
Macalaure
McCaber
Loslote
Boromir88
Nerwen
Firefoot
Thinlómien
Lalaith
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Shastanis Althreduin
Legate of Amon Lanc
Mithalwen
Kath

Illusion:
Gwathagor(Ordo)

Housekeeping Note: Due to a family committment tomorrow, I will be starting DAY 3 at 7 PM EST tomorrow. Please have your pick made by then. I thought making the DAY longer was more fair than making the NIGHT longer.

[the phantom]

What! WHAT!! Little Green is here!

Agan as the Hunter I'm inclined to think, ha ha ha. :D

Well well... THIS changes things. It seems Greenie is the one to check now.

[the phantom]

All I can say is that if Agan is the Hunter-

(1) She was Gifted, thus I have more faith in my notebook Gifted marks.
(2) She played the role more brazenly than I would've.
(3) I really want to talk to her (and Greenie for that matter).

[the phantom]

Living narration is up. It definitely looks like the work of a Hunter. Whether it was worthy of celebration, we shall see...

*waves to the new arrivals*

[the phantom]

One thing we do know for certain at this point- the Dead Thread is undoubtedly the most interesting and good-looking. :smokin:

[Nogrod]

I was just about to post a decently lengthy post when I saw what is going on...

Whoa! :)

It really changes things, considerably.

Welcome Greenie!


But the NBA final is pretty cool thus far - the little I've been able to follow it (I'll now watch it to the end and come back later this Night).

[Nogrod]

One thing we do know for certain at this point- the Dead Thread is undoubtedly the most interesting and good-looking. :smokin:And more comprehensible - or readable. :p

[Nogrod]

Btw. what was this talk of filling the halls of the dead with Europeans? ;)

*searching for the culprit*

[Nogrod]

The next Day-phase will start three hours before the normal?

Let's remember that. (And be happy getting to sleep in time.)

[the phantom]

But the NBA final is pretty cool thus far -
Definitely enjoying it.

And yes, dead Europeans, meaning there will be times when I will be the one unable to converse while everyone else is present. :(

[the phantom]

Nearly forgot to mention this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=697391&postcount=273).

:D

A well placed arrow, dearie.

[the phantom]

Anyway, sleeping for a couple hours, brief check-in, then gone for another few hours, but I should be hovering about for most of the final six hours.

[A Little Green]

Well, whoever wanted to fill the Dead Thread with Europeans is having a field day right now! Hello, boys. :smokin:

...Three pages? Seriously? I'll give it a read and see if it's all about football.

[A Little Green]

OK, more NBA than football apparently. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, there's something I picked up yesterDay but didn't say in case it drew attention to the Seer. Does anyone else find this quote by Sally rather curious?
Rune seemed very opposed to a Day 1 vote, and I got the feeling he was worried he'd end up on the chopping block.

I could see someone thinking that was seerish.
I suppose that's possible. So is the rival wolf pack perhaps thinking he was trying to delay a lynch to give the baddies an advantage.The rival wolf pack? This was before her analysis of Rune in which she presents her odd theory that Rune was killed for being a potential member of the other Wolfgang. Here, Rikae suggests Rune might have looked Seerish to the wolves and Sally interprets that as the wolves thinking Rune is a wolf trying to look Seerish. Which to me suggests she either a) knows Rune is a wolf, a.k.a. is the Seer, or b) knows the pack targeted Rune for looking like a wolf, a.k.a. is a wolf herself. Or else she is an ordo overconfident in her theory (already before she goes back to analyse Rune's posting? I don't think so), or else she did that on purpose and is a mastermind. I did look through Sally's posting and didn't really see anything else there that would point to her being the Seer, but I don't understand why the wolves would have targeted Rune for looking like a wolf, either. Also, it would be a bit of an odd coincidence if Sally dreamed Rune and the wolves killed him the same night. Any ideas?

Also, Nog? I'm impressed by your "not staying up until deadline". :p

[Aganzir]

Well. I did tell you (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=697148&postcount=66) I wouldn't come here alone. ;)

Also, dead Europeans. :D

I'm on my way to my cottage for some weekend roleplaying shenanigans but I'll be back later when I'm actually there and not in the metro.

I'd prefer to find out Greenie's role tonight because she seems more suspicious to me than Nog ever did.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am very sorry, but after having been working at the office since 6:30am, and then going straight to a bartending-job until 2 am, I simply fell a sleep in front of my computer whilst contemplating who to vote for.

Anyways, I have more time on my hands this weekend, so I plan on actually contributing.

[Nogrod]

I know I have made this kind of promises quite a few times - and almost always broken them - but now I really have to try and play a little less just to be able to wake up in the mornings... So no more DL-playing for me, at least everyday. :rolleyes:


So toNight's our first Night we can vote to find out someone's alignment - and it seems that all ties are going to result in nothing happening so let's first and foremost take care that doesn't happen.

Only two of us (myself and the phantom) managed to mess our voting in the end of the Day - so even if it wasn't that important yesterDay (it wouldn't have changed anything) and even if it was kind of a good thing in the end (with no extra-vote given there are no "messages sent" for the wolves to try and use to twist things to their favour) - so let's be careful we get a result toNight.


That said I'm not myself that sure whom we should check (although I do have an opinion on it) - and we should discuss the pro's and the con's of different choices.

My top candidate would be the phantom. Not only because I think finding out his alignment could really shed some light to some other people's roles, but also just because of our situation here: with tp sitting as the only American to whom the DL is an easy thing and able to make the last word (if we Europeans are already sleeping - which I really intend to do more often from now on) we should really know what he is up to. I mean if he is a wolf we'd need to secure a two-vote lead to anyone we wish to gain our extra-vote / whom to check before going to sleep.

Not to mention tp's obvious reluctance to be checked...

The only decent rivalling option is - I'd say - Greenie. I'm quite confused with her as usual. She's a sneaky wolf if there ever is one, nicely staying out of the heat, and thence if she is a wolf it would be a neat catch. But then again I'm thinking of the information value (to the Living or to us) of that and whether it is bigger than if we knew should we trust tp?

There's not that much we could learn knowing Rune's alignment - or mine to that matter. We were in the game for one Day and left pretty little to be interpreted (basically the later people come here the more interesting they are / the higher information value they have as they have had time to interact with others in the living thread and to make votes).

Naturally every piece of information is good. With Rune's alignment we might (stressing the word: might) get some clues as to whether he was thought to be the Seer by someone, or maybe if he were a wolf by rereading his posts to see if there were anything of interest in his relations to others?

With my innocence we could... well know it was a rivalling bandwagon-Day between hunter and an innocent - not that sure how much it helps (well yes, if I was a wolf then those not voting for me could be seen as possible wolves trying to save me - but that doesn't actually narrow things down that much).


I think I've said it already before, but I'm pretty much okay if you want to check me out. That's fine for me.

But I do think checking the phantom - or Greenie - would be a lot better idea and giving us more information (& with tp's case some pretty vital info as to whether we can trust him to give the last votes here).

[A Little Green]

I agree that in general it makes more sense to check lynches than Night kills. So.. Nog? I think he's seemed quite innocent this far, but the village doesn't seem to share my view on the matter - and anyway if I remember correctly he was the one they were mostly requesting that we'd check. Nog suggested checking phantom which I'm also fine with. I think he, too, is more likely to be an ordo - but then, I think he's better at fooling me than Nog is. ;) Also feel free to check me if you think that will help shed light on things, though *spoiler alert* I'm boring ungifted prey. Checking Rune or Agan seems a bit fruitless at this point, too.

[Nogrod]

I think we should base our decisions on the foreseeable information-value of the one checked rather than an abstract rule or what some of the villagers want us to do. (it was, I think, mainly Boro who made it his mission yesterDay to hammer it home in several posts that we here should check me - and I have reasons to believe tp and Boro have things going on together: you can find some from this thread - I'll be back with them later as now I'm needing to be off)

Also. Our chances of getting information through during normal Days is pretty small - and everything can be twisted by active wolves down there. There is just too much room for interpretation with our extra-votes to work properly as a channel of information.

But when we hopefully get a visitor here - hopefully somewhat later though - then we should be able to give her/him as much and as useful information we can.

[the phantom]

Not to mention tp's obvious reluctance to be checked...
I'm not reluctant. Rather, I adamantly refuse to be checked.

(1) I'm an Ordo, and I know I'm an Ordo, and any Wolves that may be on this thread probably think I'm an Ordo. Green seems to think me innocent. I think Agan does too. Checking me would be of little value here.
(2) The Living are highly unlikely to request my identity after the events of yesterday. They'll want Nog and Green both before me. Lommy, Boro, Mac, etc.- there will be enough of them that will write me off as an Ordo.
(3) Look at the lynch I was involved with on the first day. All that I did was drive the Nog-bus which saved Agan, who turned out to be THE HUNTER! It's not as if any Wolfish info can be gathered from the fact that I killed Nog and saved Agan.

So why on earth do you wish to gather information that is both useless and unlikely to be asked for? The very idea of pushing for a check of my identity is preposterous. If you are not a Wolf, then you will have some serious explaining to do after the game, because you are deliberately trying to waste our Night ability. Similar to the way that you, while alive, were deliberately trying to stand in the way of setting up a system for the Dead to pass valuable info to the Living. Now you're trying to throw a wrench into the system from the Dead Thread.

[the phantom]

There are two options, Green and Nog.

Rune and Agan- what is your opinion on the matter?

Should we consider the prospect of redundant information? In other words, there isn't a point to checking someone that the Seer has already checked. Thus if Legate is the Seer then Nerwen, Lommy, and Mith are cleared and Green is already dreamed guilty, thus Nog is the obvious choice for our power.

But if the Seer is someone else and Green has not been checked then she may be the best choice.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

My top candidate would be the phantom. Not only because I think finding out his alignment could really shed some light to some other people's roles, but also just because of our situation here: with tp sitting as the only American to whom the DL is an easy thing and able to make the last word (if we Europeans are already sleeping - which I really intend to do more often from now on) we should really know what he is up to. I mean if he is a wolf we'd need to secure a two-vote lead to anyone we wish to gain our extra-vote / whom to check before going to sleep.

It is of course completely true that Mr. P. Has a strategic advantage, but is this really reason enough for him to be tonight’s choice? In fact it strikes me as a bit odd that you put so much weight into this advantage... After the rest of us can just do the talking when he is not around, and (hopefully) come to some agreement, leaving TP powerless. Or, if it is all about the strategic advantage (Which will only be an advantage, until a substantial amount of North Americans have been butchered), we could decide to screw up our lives and daily routines by staying up.

Personally I would much rather stick to picking a non-wolf kill, at least in the beginning. Though TP and Noggins are two people I would normally dream of the first were I the seer, maybe it is correct that getting to know their true identities, might not yield enough additional information.

Anyways, I am mostly inclined to vote for Greenie, or perhaps Nogrod.

[A Little Green]

I'm not reluctant. Rather, I adamantly refuse to be checked.Darling, you do realise that isn't how it works. The rest of us are a majority, and so technically if we decided to check you we could, regardless of whether you adamantly refused it or not.

(1) I'm an Ordo, and I know I'm an Ordo, and any Wolves that may be on this thread probably think I'm an Ordo. Green seems to think me innocent. I think Agan does too. Checking me would be of little value here.
(2) The Living are highly unlikely to request my identity after the events of yesterday. They'll want Nog and Green both before me. Lommy, Boro, Mac, etc.- there will be enough of them that will write me off as an Ordo.
(3) Look at the lynch I was involved with on the first day. All that I did was drive the Nog-bus which saved Agan, who turned out to be THE HUNTER! It's not as if any Wolfish info can be gathered from the fact that I killed Nog and saved Agan.I doubt anyone (except maybe Boro) is "writing you off as an innocent" just yet. I'm certainly not. All I said was that I think it's more likely you're innocent. Apart from what read I can get from your posting, it is also true (though this is getting quite meta and therefore not all that reliable) that you are a fairly likely early dream for the Seer, and if the Seer dreamed you it's fairly likely you're not a wolf since we haven't seen anyone claim the contrary. So - I'm guessing you're innocent but I don't trust you yet. ;)
So why on earth do you wish to gather information that is both useless and unlikely to be asked for? The very idea of pushing for a check of my identity is preposterous. If you are not a Wolf, then you will have some serious explaining to do after the game, because you are deliberately trying to waste our Night ability. Similar to the way that you, while alive, were deliberately trying to stand in the way of setting up a system for the Dead to pass valuable info to the Living. Now you're trying to throw a wrench into the system from the Dead Thread. That said, you do have to allow for differences of opinion about what is useful/likely to work/whatever. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a wolf. Also, don't be so surprised we don't trust you - in a game like this we'd be barking mad not to be wary of everyone who isn't a known innocent, and we all know you're clever enough to act as innocently as you're now doing regardless of your role. There. Enough flattery to keep you happy? :p

As for toNight's vote, I'd prefer Nogrod over myself since I know I'm an ordo and thus checking me definitely won't give us a wolf (though I'm not convinced checking Nog will, either). I do realise the rest of you can't know that, so if you think it's worth your while then by all means check me. Also Legate isn't the Seer, so I'd advise against basing too many schemes on that assumption.

[Aganzir]

I'm also inclined to vote for Greenie or Nog.

I'm obviously curious about Greenie because my main reason for suspecting her wasn't based on anything she said (she was the perfect voice of reason most of the time) but how she said it, and she made me uneasy even before Legate started talking about her. Then again I always suspect her, as she kindly reminded me when I woke up in the morning.

I wasn't particularly suspicious of Nog (I kind of saw where he was coming from when he voted for me on DAY 1, and it was really my own fault for not specifying I liked his post even though I disagreed with a lot of his ideas because the way he explained them, they had merit, so it really looked like buddying up) but his tirade for checking the phantom could also be a wolf's clever counter attack.

I was freely dropping gifted hints during my short and eventful life, and whatever it means, the wolves didn't react to them (or at least the suspicion I'd garnered weighed more than my potential giftedness). I knew phantom picked up on them, and Boro did too, even if I'm not sure when. The fact that he brought it up yesterday in the thread when I was about to be lynched makes me feel better about him because that's something he didn't have to do. Therefore I don't buy Nog's worry about his and phantom's weird relationship (I kind of wish they were lovers though, they'd be the couple we've been waiting all our life ;)).

So yeah, I'm up for either. (Only after dinner though.)

[A Little Green]

It is of course completely true that Mr. P. Has a strategic advantage, but is this really reason enough for him to be tonight’s choice? In fact it strikes me as a bit odd that you put so much weight into this advantage... After the rest of us can just do the talking when he is not around, and (hopefully) come to some agreement, leaving TP powerless. Or, if it is all about the strategic advantage (Which will only be an advantage, until a substantial amount of North Americans have been butchered), we could decide to screw up our lives and daily routines by staying up. Well, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm definitely not staying up until deadline! ;) Also, it's true that the "advantage" of being the only one around at deadline isn't all that significant. If the rest of us have already voted, there isn't much the last person can do to sway the whole thing. And even if there was, I don't see a way it could be done without him revealing his cards at the same time, and thus us knowing his alignment wouldn't prevent it. Does that make sense? It made sense in my head but I'm not sure it's understandable to anyone else. :rolleyes:


EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[the phantom]

Darling, you do realise that isn't how it works. The rest of us are a majority, and so technically if we decided to check you we could, regardless of whether you adamantly refused it or not.
What I mean is, I will never admit that it might be a viable idea to check my identity (the way you have admitted it about yourself).

You recognize the tactical situation and that a check of you is a realistic possibility, but that is not the case with me. You may want to check me, you may feel better checking me, but talking about it like it's something we're really going to do is, I insist, very suspicious. Given the Day 1 voting, the fact I was Night-killed, and the presence of a lynch victim and Hunter victim, I am not a real option except as a fruitless distraction.
Also Legate isn't the Seer, so I'd advise against basing too many schemes on that assumption.
Heh heh, well of course you think he isn't since he called you a Wolf. :p

Who is the Seer, then? Boro? (dreams possibly Rikae, Shasta, Lommy, Legate)

Or someone just laying low and reluctant to give info....

[the phantom]

and whatever it means, the wolves didn't react to them (or at least the suspicion I'd garnered weighed more than my potential giftedness)
Yeah, I was a bit worried about you overnight- afraid you may have been a Seer that over did things. I might've actually been able to spot you as a Hunter if it weren't for the fact that I'm unsuited for such a role (I would've done everything possible to avoid using my power, where as you embraced the opportunity to take a shot).

And really the fact they didn't gun for you- that makes me worried about the village, because the Rune kill just didn't make any sense to me. Basically, I'm worried that the Seer will hide quite well but will be killed nonetheless because the pack won't make a logical kill, if you follow...

Anyway, you're the one with the big threatening weapons, so I'd say you'll probably have the final say on our check. Anyone care to shop around for other Seer candidates so that we can avoid redundant information if possible? I can't undertake such a thing until later today.

[A Little Green]

Heh heh, well of course you think he isn't since he called you a Wolf. :p

Who is the Seer, then? Boro? (dreams possibly Rikae, Shasta, Lommy, Legate)If you check me toNight you'll agree with me. I know you can't trust me yet, but working from an assumption that Legate is the Seer is a waste of your time and I'd feel guilty not warning you about it. ;)

As for who is the Seer - Boro is a possibility, to be sure, it would also explain why he's been a bit quieter and more cautious than usual. I'm still curious about Sally, but some things don't really add up whether she's a seer or a wolf or a very confused ordo. That's pretty much all I have though, I'm fairly sure morm is innocent but I didn't pick any Seer vibes from him. I'd have to reread to get a better idea.

[Aganzir]

I might've actually been able to spot you as a Hunter if it weren't for the fact that I'm unsuited for such a role
Come on isn't it enough to start the game by saying I'm not going to the Dead thread alone and killing me has actual consequences? :Merisu: (I left it there in case I died at night along with somebody else.) Other than that I just wanted to get myself killed, even if not the way it actually happened. Which, again, was partly my own fault because I knew what Lommy said wasn't worth overreacting but did it nonetheless. But still, I still think there's something very fishy there.

And really the fact they didn't gun for you- that makes me worried about the village, because the Rune kill just didn't make any sense to me. Basically, I'm worried that the Seer will hide quite well but will be killed nonetheless because the pack won't make a logical kill, if you follow...
I'm curious about tonight's kills. From last night it looks like we have a pack who wants to play it safe, and a pack who is kind of random, but the fact that we don't know their choice means it's difficult to tell, and they might even use their kills to try to frame each other (or individual players).

I hunted Mac last NIGHT (if you're curious, it was sally on NIGHT 1 out of principle, and Lommy on DAY 1), but the main reason I changed it (and voted for Greenie instead of him) was that Rikae was feeling better about him - and me. I'm far from certain but they're (if somebody prefers gender-neutral pronouns it's basic human decency to comply) my likeliest seer suspect (without actually having looked at all their posts with this in mind). I might be biased though just because we've shared a lot of suspects in this game and are quite similar players.

Heh, I love playing werewolf and talking openly about potential seer - rather than wolf - suspects. :D

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

You may want to check me, you may feel better checking me, but talking about it like it's something we're really going to do is, I insist, very suspicious.

Come on, it is not that suspicious. It is a very normal response to a pompous speech. Your points for not wanting to get checked might be valid, but the form in which they were presented was always likely to get a response. I get that it is part of your persona to make bombastic statements, on almost comical level, but surely you are aware of the influence categorical statements have on people.

Phantom says something megalomaniacal, Greenie retorts by pointing out that he is feeble compared to a collective decision and would be powerless to stop one.

To me this seems to be ordinary stuff, done by the book.

[Aganzir]

Greenie seems a more likely wolf to me, but I feel knowing Nog's role for sure would tell us more about other people.

Fewer people said anything definite about her than about him (and let's be honest we don't need to find out more about Legate just yet), so knowing what he is will give us more leads. However, if we use the night to check Nog, I'm worried he'll turn out innocent (we have a history of disagreeing strongly even when innocent), while Greenie could very well be a sneaky wolf who's redoubled her efforts at sneakiness after coming here.

So I'm still not sure.

[the phantom]

Green- looking back at my Day 1 markings I gave her equal checks and pluses for liking her and disliking her, so I don't have a strong opinion on her.

For those that know her better- what do you think of the way she entered the thread. I mean, there were several attitudes she could have taken. For instance-

"Darn it, Agan! Why didn't you reveal and save us, now we're two innocents down!"

But instead she just says hello and starts talking about Sally. Is that a normal reaction?

[the phantom]

Just a funny thought- I dreamt that the WWs and village continued always killing the noisiest folks, Rikae, Boro, Mac, etc... So that the second half of the game was fewer pages than the first day, ha ha. It reminded me of the Downer article where LMP proposed a quiet Werewolf game wherein players would get modfired if they participated too much. :D

[Aganzir]

she was one of the few people that seemed genuine (as much as that is possible for Agan) to me.
*puts on dark sunglasses and does her best KGB agent impression*

I faked a Lover connection because I didn't mind dying
And dragged me into it too! Thanks phantom! (I did see it and it made me laugh - after all I like dwarves, even if Tyrion Lannister has never been my particular favourite. ;))

Anyway, while we're waiting around we should share music/sports/humor links on YouTube or something. And make the innocent wonder why on earth the Dead thread is so active.
You folks are hilarious. :D Many seemed to think all you'd do is fight, but reading your gentlemanly stuff is so much fun! I love how companionable this place is though (at least so far), even if we're still suspecting each other.

But I think there is another explanation which puts you two in the same pack... with probably Boro as the third?
NOGROD you're such a tease! Now I'm sad this didn't happen. (Although let's be honest if it did, you'd be here with two other people.)

And yeah, I wasn't going for a seer look but took care to phrase my posts in a way that could be interpreted that way, so nice spotting.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I quickly looked through some of Greenie's posts and some of the points made against her, and so far she is the person here I most inclined to think a wolf. It is a bit odd, because I don’t normally suspect people that I agree with, and I do find myself agreeing with her most of the time.

Of course one has a tendency to notice what other people are saying, and Greenie’s view of my death, and her doubts about Sally’s theory are the same. Just to give an example.

However, there is something about her interactions with other players, and her small comments that doesn’t sit right. Legate made a point of her posts having a “fishy tone” and her giving people “nudges” or something like that... Correct me if I am wrong. I myself found her interaction with Nogrod on Day 1 slightly unsettling.

So yeah, I would quite like clarity about her allegiance.

[Aganzir]

For those that know her better- what do you think of the way she entered the thread. I mean, there were several attitudes she could have taken. For instance-

"Darn it, Agan! Why didn't you reveal and save us, now we're two innocents down!"

But instead she just says hello and starts talking about Sally. Is that a normal reaction?

I quickly looked through some of Greenie's posts and some of the points made against her, and so far she is the person here I most inclined to think a wolf. It is a bit odd, because I don’t normally suspect people that I agree with, and I do find myself agreeing with her most of the time.
I've been reading through this thread and Nog is looking more and more innocent to me. We have our differing views and disagreements, but he's said or done nothing that actually looks evil or foul or opportunistic to me.

As to what phantom spotted - that's curious. It could be that getting sudden proof of my innocence chagrined her enough not to complain, but. She's also being awfully nice and cooperative. It can obviously be genuine, but... I think I'll also feel better about checking her.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

As to what phantom spotted - that's curious. It could be that getting sudden proof of my innocence chagrined her enough not to complain, but. She's also being awfully nice and cooperative. It can obviously be genuine, but... I think I'll also feel better about checking her.

As soon as I made my previous post, I realised that I had forgotten to include Phantom's observation. Again it is not something that I think is hugely incriminating, but it is curious and another reason for wanting clarity.

[Nogrod]

I quickly looked through some of Greenie's posts and some of the points made against her, and so far she is the person here I most inclined to think a wolf. It is a bit odd, because I don’t normally suspect people that I agree with, and I do find myself agreeing with her most of the time.
If you have been checking Greenie's posts lately, could you tell us is there a lot of interaction with other players - suspicions or trust, vote-placements etc.?

I mean we need to think which information would be important or helpful - and that should lead our decision on whom to check.

NOGROD you're such a tease! Now I'm sad this didn't happen.I must admit I'm too, well a little bit, as I seem to be in need of correcting some of my earlier assumptions. Though it sure would have been phenomenal if I could have deduced one wolfpack on D2 just by myself - so no surprise there I was wrong. :rolleyes:

But I'm a bit worried about the phantom - Boro -connection still, fex. this tp spotting the three times FBI -thingy. I mean yes tp is a sharp player but that is just, well phenomenally superb spotting - but understandable if it was pre-orchestrated and meant to be used in times of need.

Also the fact that tp is ready to offer a real fight against us checking him, and not only with overboosted self-confidence but also with relatively bad arguments for his level of the game makes me a bit troubled - and at the same time Boro is making it his top-priority in the living thread to hammer in that we here in the Dead Thread should not even think of checking tp (I mean it was bit overdone to use several posts just underlining that point - something a normal innocent would probably waste less energy on and would concentrate more on finding a good lynch-candidate).

And yes, I am worried about tp using the decisive power if we don't know his alignment. If we knew he is innocent I'd be glad to leave the last minute decisions to him as I know he's very good in this game - but if I think such a mastermind is driving our effect on the game while we others sleep - well I'd hate that.

Surely we'll get new people here every Day and Night and another American must die sooner or later and even things out - but I'd say it would be good for them to know as well where tp is coming aka. whether to listen to his pretty dominating presence or just ignore him.

I mean let's not forget that knowing tp is innocent would be an asset indeed. I'd love to play knowing I can trust him to play on our side.


That said, if you still think I'm the one you wish to check, be my guest.

[the phantom]

I did see it and it made me laugh - after all I like dwarves, even if Tyrion Lannister has never been my particular favourite.
Aww... Tyrion is who I got on the personality match thingummy on Facebook. :D
Many seemed to think all you'd do is fight
Ha ha, yes. But we have a mastery of fighting without fighting, if you follow...

Also, if we examine Green, are you prepared for the consequences if the's innocent/guilty? Guilty perhaps makes Legate and Rikae look good for voting her, or guilty for destroying the opposing pack, for instance.

With Nog it could implicate Sally and others, or clear them. I mean, is it even a factor considering Wolf-on-Wolf isn't really a thing this game seeing as they don't know one another?

Any clues as to what most Living will be keen to see? They want to see Nog because he was a lynch, and his lynch competition is a known Gifted? Or they want to see Green because the known Gifted killed her? Really I'm content to let Agan call this shot since she's the one you folks can't claim you don't trust.

[A Little Green]

Green- looking back at my Day 1 markings I gave her equal checks and pluses for liking her and disliking her, so I don't have a strong opinion on her.

For those that know her better- what do you think of the way she entered the thread. I mean, there were several attitudes she could have taken. For instance-

"Darn it, Agan! Why didn't you reveal and save us, now we're two innocents down!"

But instead she just says hello and starts talking about Sally. Is that a normal reaction? And how constructive would that have been? "Darn it, Agan!" was pretty much my reaction when I found out what had happened, but I don't see what could possibly have been achieved by complaining about that here. She's the Hunter, she picked wrong, end of story. (If you ever see me get emotional in a werewolf game, I'll start worrying someone's hacked my account.)

[Nogrod]

Any clues as to what most Living will be keen to see? They want to see Nog because he was a lynch, and his lynch competition is a known Gifted?*Ahem* Boro wants to see you check me aka. not checking you my friend....

Also you jump into over-grandizing things... If Agan was a wolf it could be more interesting for them to know whether there were wolves involved in my-bandwagon (that was why I thought yesterDay there could be a point in checking me as well - even if not a terribly good one).

But as she isn't (and people know that now) it's hard to see how interesting that information now is. I can't imagine voting me over a gifted on Day1 makes anyone more innocent-looking as clearly they can't claim they knew Agan was the Hunter - and even if they claimed, how would that figure in anything relating to my role (rather it speaks that I'm no wolf already as there were no-one trying to save me)?


But I'd still wish to see how much important enough info we could get from checking Greenie (instead of tp) - a thing no-one has quite yet come up with in any detail.

[A Little Green]

But I'd still wish to see how much important enough info we could get from checking Greenie (instead of tp) - a thing no-one has quite yet come up with in any detail. Well I suppose it does tell us that Legate isn't the Seer, but that's about it. Or is there something else, too?

[Nogrod]

Well I suppose it does tell us that Legate isn't the Seer, but that's about it. Or is there something else, too?Did you have lots of interactions with others while you lived? Did you fall under someone's heavy suspicion or did you suspect someone strongly, how did your votes turn out?

Always a good idea asking this kind of things from one about whom those questions are posed for. :D

I have som,e ideas but no clear view. That's why asked the same thing from Rune who had spent some tie reading your postings - sadly he hasn't commented on that. I'd hate to go reading through all the Living Thread for that info... but maybe I'll at least take a look, in some (hopefully) very near future. :)

[Aganzir]

I doubt anyone (except maybe Boro) is "writing you off as an innocent" just yet.
Well actually I am, as I've said more than once.

But I'm a bit worried about the phantom - Boro -connection still, fex. this tp spotting the three times FBI -thingy.
I'm not worried about that at all. They're similar players and employ similar tactics, and really, with the two of them, it doesn't require prior plotting to notice things like that. It was actually a curious find because it's totally something Boro would do (he's done similar keywords before more than once) - in my opinion, the interesting question is, did he do it by accident or was it an actual seer hint?

Aww... Tyrion is who I got on the personality match thingummy on Facebook. :D
Have you taken this quizhttp://www.helloquizzy.com/tests/the-game-of-thrones-character-test-1? It's the best ASoIaF/GoT personality test I've seen. First time I got Daenerys, then a year later Cersei - not sure I'm happy about this development.

Lommy and our other friends need my attention for a little while now, brb.

[Aganzir]

Did you have lots of interactions with others while you lived? Did you fall under someone's heavy suspicion or did you suspect someone strongly, how did your votes turn out?
Nog what's this interview? :D

[Nogrod]

Heh, I love playing werewolf and talking openly about potential seer - rather than wolf - suspects. :DIt's a major part of the fun being in the dead thread - you can talk openly about anything and everything - and you do not need to fear being kicked out of the game whatever you say (and quite astonishingly that's probably also one reason why people tend to act pretty civil in here!)

I just hope all the people gave more arguments why they think X or Y should be checked.

[A Little Green]

Did you have lots of interactions with others while you lived? Did you fall under someone's heavy suspicion or did you suspect someone strongly, how did your votes turn out?Let's see - I remember Legate suspected me quite heavily, some others (I'm thinking Agan and Rikae, haven't checked so don't quote me on that) expressed some concern about me, Rune called me annoying, Lommy said she adores me but doesn't trust me, and Mac had me on a "more likely innocent" list. That's all I can remember off the cuff but there might have been something else too. I thought morm was innocent and you extremely entertaining, and suspected Agan and Sally, though I backed off the latter after spotting what might have been a Seer's slip or else just plain weird behaviour (the post I quoted when I apparently should have been complaining about Agan :p). I fell asleep and didn't vote on Day 1 (Rune, I feel you brother), on Day 2 I voted Agan and we all know how well that turned out. :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

I just hope all the people gave more arguments why they think X or Y should be checked.
All people meaning whom? Because I've been mostly happy with everybody's arguments, except maybe yours - you're completely obsessed with the phantom and don't want to hear things that point at his innocence.

Anyway,

++Greenie

[Nogrod]

All people meaning whom? Because I've been mostly happy with everybody's arguments, except maybe yours - you're completely obsessed with the phantom and don't want to hear things that point at his innocence.
It would be a major offence to the phantom's capabilities as a player if one should at large deem him automatically innocent just because he hasn't done anything that clearly incriminates him!

"Oh, the phantom looks innocent -well naturally that means he is one because as we all know he's such a lousy player he couldn't pull out even a minor trick, not to say he would be able to convince anyone contrary to his role. He's such an easy one to see through!" :D

You can't be serious Agan. Things "pointing at his innocence" should really be taken with a pinch, no a tablespoon of salt.

And I also think it would be very good to know his alignment for the future of this Dead Thread and whether we can operate succesfully. I mean it does make a difference whether you know he's on your side or not - mind you, also knowing he is an innocent would be a big deal to know. Not so much to the living perhaps, but to us here. If we wish to have things in any kind of order here I think tp is the key to that.

But as I've said, I'm still open for checking Greenie and will be okay with you checking me (even if I don't suggest it as the value of that information would be smallish - and of coure because I know it already so it doesn't help me).

The main thing being we check someone and not end up in a tie of any sort.

[A Little Green]

If you guys want to check me feel free to do so, though I think checking Nog has the potential of telling us more. Anyway it's nearing bedtime for me so

++ Nogrod

[Nogrod]

If the phantom is a wolf, you Greenie just gave him the keys to make sure we do not check him.

Just saying.

(Will be off for a while but come back in time to vote.)

[the phantom]

If Rune votes Green then it's settled on her. If Rune votes Nog then Nog will probably vote Green and then it would be in my hands.

So why are you holding out, Nog? Are you seriously hoping to convince Rune to check me? :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm still suspicious of Nog's behavior, but for the sake of trusting the Hunter, to make the decision an easy one for Rune, and giving the village the result they are most likely to ask for, I'm going to vote-

++Little Green

Whatever you do, Rune, do not vote for Nog, because then he could just leave the score tied and give us no result if he wanted. Also don't vote for yourself, Agan, or me because then Nog could forge a tie that way.

[the phantom]

What I'm saying here is, any vote other than for Green could result in Nog robbing us of our ability.

[the phantom]

Agan, I don't think I asked you directly--

Did you ever suspect that Nog, like Boro and I, totally had an eye on your possible Giftedness on Day 1 and chose to vote for you because he saw an opportunity to knock off a Gifted?

[Aganzir]

Agan, I don't think I asked you directly--

Did you ever suspect that Nog, like Boro and I, totally had an eye on your possible Giftedness on Day 1 and chose to vote for you because he saw an opportunity to knock off a Gifted?
No. It's not impossible but no, I don't think what I said or did - or how I said and did it - is something he'd usually pay attention to.

Nog is being weirdly insistent about phantom again, but it may be related to it being past midnight here.

[the phantom]

DAY ONE VOTING

Nilp -> Nilp
Rune -> Formendacil
Mormegil -> Macalaure
Lalaith -> Legate
Kath -> Formendacil 2
Aganzir -> Lommy
Lommy -> Aganzir
Legate -> A Little Green
Nogrod -> Aganzir 2
Form -> Form 3
Mith -> Agan 3
McCaber -> Agan 4
Firefoot -> Gwath
Boro -> Nog
Rikae -> Lommy 2
Mac -> Agan 5
TP -> Nog 2
Lottie -> Nog 3
Eomer -> Nog 4
Shasta -> Nog 5
Sally -> Nog 6

DAY TWO VOTING

Lottie -> morm
Nerwen -> Mac
Greenie -> Agan
Lalaith -> Agan 2
Lommy -> Agan 3
Legate -> Green
Caber -> Agan 4
morm -> Mac 2
Agan -> Green 2
Mac -> Agan 5
Firefoot -> Mac 3
Nilp -> Agan 6
Mith -> Rikae
Rikae -> Green 3
Eomer -> Agan 7
Boro -> Agan 8
Shasta -> Lottie

The following can (tentatively) NOT be grouped as Wolves together--

Kath & Form
Rikae & Lommy
Lottie & Nog
Eomer & Nog
Shasta & Nog
Sally & Nog
Morm & Mac
Firefoot & Mac
Legate & Green

That isn't much for now, but we can build on this list every day, and it might be helpful for finding a pack down the road. As someone pointed out, killing off an entire pack would be quite beneficial because it would reduce the Night kills.

[A Little Green]

If the phantom is a wolf, you Greenie just gave him the keys to make sure we do not check him.

Just saying. Be realistic, Nog - checking him wasn't going to happen toNight anyway since basically everyone but you said they want to check one of the two of us instead.

[Nogrod]

Okay. I am getting annoyed, especially with tp hinting I would be the one trying to not give us a vote that has a result - but not then voting for me to find out. If that isn't cheap, then what is?

(Like tp himself caused a tie already yesterDay by conscientiously ignoring particular discussion of the voted person and leaving it to the last minute - and then choosing someone whom I would have to have guessed to hit it correctly - while I made it clear I had one candidate who would have given the extra-vote to the exactly same person (Agan) tp's vote would have given it)

Nog is being weirdly insistent about phantom again, but it may be related to it being past midnight here.a) I am not "weirdly insistent" and can see can come to issues from several angles, but I'm very much flabbergasted you think having an unknown phantom here to steer things is just okay. And b) I've been of that mind consistently Day and Night and night and day (disregarding the clock).

Well. This reminds me of the last Dead Thread game. I was right then alone - and I'm afraid I'm right alone now as well.



My first thought was to vote myself just out of annoyance but then I realised that until Rune comes it is then a tie... I need to hear from Rune first as I'm open to any choice but a tie.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

My internet is down and I only have mobile access.

++A Little Green

[Nogrod]

If you want to check me, say it. I can then vote myself first so that you see I'm not trying any games. Result me 3 votes, Greenie 2 votes.

If you want to check Greenie, say it or vote her. I'll play along (but your vote is actually enough whatever I do).

Up to you to pick from us two as it's clear tp can not be voted anymore.

That was smart of him (well naturally) to make his vote early as even if it does the same thing as denying us voting him as the last voter, it looks much better this way as he forces others to avoid the tie.

Edit: x'd with Rune... okay that does it.

[Nogrod]

++ Little Green

I don't tihnk this is our best bet - whatever the result, but happy we have a result (Yeah, I could have now voted for tp just out of principle, but that's an empty gesture).

[Aganzir]

I'm reading Mr FBI's posts. Things that might imply he's the seer:

Talks about the Seer incessantly on DAY 1. I don't know if this means anything, but always says Seer, never uses a personal pronoun.
How is this what happened? Did he a) spot my hints and think the phantom was trying to protect me, b) count on phantom spotting the FBI, c) see another possible gifted hint that we haven't talked about?When he's an ordo, if he thinks he knows who is gifted he'll hang a large "KILL ME" sign and in that way try to protect the gifteds from the wolf-kill. That's pretty much what happened yesterday.
Explicitly says "I don't think they were the Seer" about: phantom, Rune, Nog


And I may be reading too much into everything that's about me, but his poetic "You're a goner, tip your hat" post to me (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=697528&postcount=360) - and bringing up our old dance - looked like there was more to it between the lines. Before I think about this further? Because it happens that he's the seer who dreamed of me, this could be interpreted as giving me the green light for a false seer reveal. (Under other circumstances I would definitely have done a false gifted reveal to attract the wolves rather than the lynch mob, but this extent of sleep deprivation seriously impairs my reasoning and judgement.)

Potentially interesting quotes if Boro is the seer:

The most likely wolf, of the 3 dead, I think is Nogrod and I would love for the Dead to check him tonight, but that's choice isn't up to me.
I saw Lommy's side of the argument with Agan, so that made me suspicious of Agan
It was Morm who first pointed out Agan's slip, and Lommy went with Agan's reaction to morm as the most suspicious thing she found on Day 1. So, I think it would implicate morm more as a possible pack mate than Lommy. (That is, mormwolf trying to point something out and be helpful, but not expecting much to come of it)

[Kuruharan]

A Little Green is PREY

Thanks for finishing up early, guys. I'm looking like to have a fairly frantic last half hour here.

Due to circumstances on my end I will be posting the opening narration of DAY 3 when I get it done so it will be before the top of the hour (I hope).

[Aganzir]

Boo. Sorry Greenie.

However-

KNOWN INNOCENT HIGH FIVE o/

[Nogrod]

I'm reading Mr FBI's posts. Things that might imply he's the seer:
[LIST]
Talks about the Seer incessantly on DAY 1. Interesting game-style choice for a real seer...

[Nogrod]

Okay. I think it's hooray, but I still nag we had better options... *grumpy* :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

Okay. I am getting annoyed, especially with tp hinting I would be the one trying to not give us a vote that has a result - but not then voting for me to find out.
Tactics, Nog, tactics.

Despite wanting to find out about you it did not make tactical sense to vote for you because Agan and Green had already split the vote and I can't be certain of your alignment, thus I wanted to offer you as little opportunity to sabotage the vote as possible. An innocent Green result is better than none.

IF you are innocent you need to give up the idea of testing me and just trust me.

The only reason we're even talking about giving the Living information is because of ME. On the very first day I'm the one that figured out a way to use the Dead Thread to some additional advantage and insisted that we do so. I'm the one that spotted a Gifted Agan and tried to save her. I'm the one that painted a target on my back so the Wolves would night kill me. I sure as heck wouldn't have killed Rune as my Night kill.

Any rational experienced (and well-rested ;) ) player that knows me even a bit knows that my identity is as good as in the bag at this point.

[Aganzir]

I need to tell you though - after DAY 1 I went to sleep not feeling positive I'd still be alive in the morning, and I had a dream I was lynched and Kuru posted PREDATOR in my death narration. I was confused but eventually figured the Hunter is also a predator of sorts.

[Aganzir]

Noggins dear. Of course I'd prefer to know the phantom's identity for sure. But that means being in doubt about somebody else.

Phants is not stupid. He plays to win, as he said before and as we all know. And he does not take needless risks. He wouldn't sacrifice himself for the pack, on day 1 least of all. He wouldn't have played the way he did if he was a wolf. Let go your earthly tether and think about it.

[Nogrod]

The most likely wolf, of the 3 dead, I think is Nogrod and I would love for the Dead to check him tonight, but that's choice isn't up to me.As I happen to know I'm innocent I can say for certain this is no seer saying something he knows.

IF you are innocent you need to give up the idea of testing me and just trust me.Haha. The last thing I'll do is trust you in this game just because you say so. :)

I mean I really appreciate your skill and thought you are able to put in this game and how sovereignly you can pull out different schemes - but that's just the reason you can't be trusted just like *puff* that.

[Aganzir]

I'm so curious about who will die tonight. :smokin:

[Nogrod]

He wouldn't sacrifice himself for the pack, on day 1 least of all. So you really think he was killed because he said "hey wolves, come and get me"? Or that saying that was something like intentionally sacrifical from his part, that he knew he would then be dead? :rolleyes:

You can't be serious.

[Aganzir]

As I happen to know I'm innocent I can say for certain this is no seer saying something he knows.
Yeah, if Boro is the seer he's keeping very quiet about his dreams. Which makes sense considering how many times he stressed the seer's main asset is the number of dreams.

[Aganzir]

So you really think he was killed because he said "hey wolves, come and get me"? Or that saying that was something like intentionally sacrifical from his part, that he knew he would then be dead? :rolleyes:

You can't be serious.
Oh come on, I'm not saying that. It's not that individual comment, it's all he said and done. He was aggressively helpful and brought up ideas that offered a genuine threat to the wolves and their anonymity.

[Kuruharan]

I'm so curious about who will die tonight. :smokin:

It should prove quite entertaining...

[Aganzir]

It should prove quite entertaining...
Keeping us on our toes, are you? Get on with it! :p

[Aganzir]

I hope it's Lommy.

[Kuruharan]

Keeping us on our toes, are you? Get on with it! :p

You're not the only one, believe me. :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Oh. I just realised it's just fifteen minutes!

Stupid me I had forgotten and was thinking of getting to sleep... Well, maybe I'm not then. :)

[the phantom]

So you really think he was killed because he said "hey wolves, come and get me"? Or that saying that was something like intentionally sacrifical from his part, that he knew he would then be dead?
I was in fact fairly confident I'd be an early Wolf kill. I dropped a lover hint, I suggested something enormously helpful to the village, and I put myself in position to be the vocal organizer of the plan. In villages past I've seen the PMs the Wolves have about me- I know how to make them talk about me at night.

Haha. The last thing I'll do is trust you in this game just because you say so.
But I order you to! :D

No, but really, for the sake of maximizing tactical gameplay you need to at least occasionally pretend as if I'm innocent and see what your eyes see under such a circumstance.

[Aganzir]

You're not the only one, believe me. :rolleyes:
If the wolves are late with their pick, they can't kill anybody!

Or maybe if they're slow the sun will rise and somebody catches them red-pawed. :smokin:

[Aganzir]

I know how to make them talk about me at night.
Oh, really? :smokin:

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I hope it's Lommy.

Lommy is a wolf, so yeah... Lets hope.

[the phantom]

Anyway, just fyi, I'll be reporting all our findings to the village in a few minutes. But don't worry, I'll be back among the Dead on Day 4. I guess love doesn't last forever.

Pesky rules.

[Nogrod]

He was aggressively helpful and brought up ideas that offered a genuine threat to the wolves and their anonymity.Have you seen the phantom who wasn't aggressively "helpful" offering different kinds of schemes all the time? :D

And yes we do differ in our views about their genuine helpfulness or their threat to the wolves. But gah, I'm not going back to those D1 arguments any more, at least for now.

[Kuruharan]

Anyway, just fyi, I'll be reporting all our findings to the village in a few minutes. But don't worry, I'll be back among the Dead on Day 4. I guess love doesn't last forever.

Pesky rules.

Tsk.

[Aganzir]

Oh phantom, cutie, I knew it. ;)

Who's the lucky one? Please tell me it's Boro.

[Nogrod]

Anyway, just fyi, I'll be reporting all our findings to the village in a few minutes. But don't worry, I'll be back among the Dead on Day 4. I guess love doesn't last forever.

Pesky rules.Oh sheet... You and your tactics. :(

[the phantom]

KIDDING!! I'm just bored. :p

Plus I knew Kuru would get a kick out of your reactions. :D

(entertaining the Mod is our primary function after all)

[the phantom]

Tell me, honestly, did your hearts skip a beat?

[Nogrod]

And what a waste to have a lover this early. :mad:

I thought our best way was to give as much information to the visitors and now we've already wasted one of the two.

[Aganzir]

Tell me, honestly, did your hearts skip a beat?
No because I was entertaining this notion earlier today. :p

[Nogrod]

I love to hate you and hate to love you dear phantom. :cool:

[Aganzir]

I love to hate you and hate to love you dear phantom. :cool:
Oooooh Nog you could have told you were phantom's lover! :Merisu:

[Kuruharan]

The residents had worked on the problem of their own natures all day and finally came to a solution.

Something told them that it was time again...time when others would join them.

They waited for the telltale swirling of the mists that surrounded them.

With a gust, they came.

Macalaure...

Rikae... (how ironic)

Welcomes were exchanged, cake was shared, conversation begun.

"Where's my cake," came an unexpected voice.

Not AGAIN!!!!

Why is Legate here?!!!!!!!

The Missing or Dead:
Kuruharan
Nogrod
the phantom
Rune Son of Bjarne
Aganzir
A Little Green
Macalaure
Rikae
Legate of Amon Lanc

The Living:
Formendacil
satansaloser2005
McCaber
Loslote
Boromir88
Nerwen
Firefoot
Thinlómien
Lalaith
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Kath

Illusion:
Gwathagor(Ordo)

The DAY will end at the customary hour.

[Aganzir]

At this pace, the village probably thinks we're talking about something very serious.

[Nogrod]

I love to hate you and hate to love you dear phantom. :cool:I mean in this game that is... but not in a way Agan suggests. ;)

Otherwise, you know, I do appreciate you a lot.

[Aganzir]

Whaaaaat

HEY PEOPLE <3

Good to see you, even if weird.

[the phantom]

Watch this (https://youtu.be/G7RgN9ijwE4) little clip.

And then this (https://youtu.be/dXidW7fEH8g) one.

:)

[Nogrod]

Whoa! :eek:

[Kuruharan]

I suspect you will be talking about something very serious.

In reference to Agan's post.

[Aganzir]

Looks like we have an assassin then! Or a traveller between threads.

[Nogrod]

So did the hunter act last Night or tonight? *Eyes Aganzir with a questionmark*

[the phantom]

No no no no no....

THREE deaths. So, special role, right?

I'm not even going to attempt speculating until I've heard something from the newly Dead.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

***!?
Also do Mac count as a dead European?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, folks. Very nice to be here. Erm, or maybe not?

Not that I expect to stay up late at this hour (even though it's nice to have the Day longer now), but...

So, can somebody sum up, at least for the time being, for the convenience of mine and of the others, what is it that happened here so far?

[Nogrod]

Anyway. Welcome to the kingdom of the gentle dead!

Let's hear you (and take your time to check our earlier discussions).

[Aganzir]

So did the hunter act last Night or tonight? *Eyes Aganzir with a questionmark*
Well. If I wasn't the Hunter, there'd be a daytime assassin who just chose to murder the person I had voted for. And what an incredible shot of luck that I left Hunter clues in my first post! :Merisu:

[the phantom]

Legate- in summary....

Nog and I insistently suspect one another. We assume Agan is the Hunter. Green is PREY.

[Aganzir]

Also hahaha Rune! WHY are there so many dead Europeans?

Legate - sure. Greenie is an ordo, that's all.

So what are you folks? :smokin:

[Rikae]

What? Three dead?

Also, I knew this would happen with everyone calling me innocent. :rolleyes:

Off to read the thread.

[the phantom]

Also, I knew this would happen with everyone calling me innocent.
Yeah, I recall you lamenting your innocent status yesterday and thought the same, heh heh. It's actually bad for an innocent or Wolf to be too innocent in this game what with the dueling packs...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate- in summary....

Nog and I insistently suspect one another. We assume Agan is the Hunter. Green is PREY.

Well that was generally what I wanted. Just some basic bare facts, I am probably going to read the whole thread, but totally not at this hour... hmm, or maybe I will. Anywayss...

Still a bit of a surprise, though not entirely unexpected, except... *scratches head*

Well. What now?

[the phantom]

I'm quite surprised Lommy wasn't the victim with Legate. I had this whole theory based on ethnic cleansing and such...

[Aganzir]

i'm quite surprised lommy wasn't the victim with legate. I had this whole theory based on ethnic cleansing and such...
phantom! :D :D :D

[the phantom]

You probably would've said already, but- do either of you think you are here for a reason other than Wolf kill?

[Nogrod]

Legate- in summary....

Nog and I insistently suspect one another. We assume Agan is the Hunter. Green is PREY.Well summarised. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Also hahaha Rune! WHY are there so many dead Europeans?

Legate - sure. Greenie is an ordo, that's all.

So what are you folks? :smokin:
What are you, for that matter?

What? Three dead?

Also, I knew this would happen with everyone calling me innocent. :rolleyes:

Off to read the thread.
Yeah, totally not surprised to see you here. A bit surprised to see Mac. And hm, so how many living villagers are out there now? This is quite dramatic.

[the phantom]

Ooo, ooo, it's happening!
Just a funny thought- I dreamt that the WWs and village continued always killing the noisiest folks, Rikae, Boro, Mac, etc... So that the second half of the game was fewer pages than the first day, ha ha.
:D

[Aganzir]

We're 9. There are still 15 warm people. It's statistically likely we have 1-2 wolves here now.

Also, I'm the Hunter.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You probably would've said already, but- do either of you think you are here for a reason other than Wolf kill?

Well, how should I put it. Upon learning that I was dead, I was like "yeah sure, I thought as much might happen". But upon reading the narration - here - seriously... I am actually curious now if I might be here for other reason.

Not much to make out of that, though, for the time being. Does anybody else have anything to say on that subject, for that matter?

[Aganzir]

Ooo, ooo, it's happening!

:D
Hahaha! You know I think we both are natural seers because dead Europeans is also happening!

[Nogrod]

We're 9. There are still 15 warm people. It's statistically likely we have 1-2 wolves here now.I think we had half of the wolves here already before you three newest people came in. :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

Well, how should I put it. Upon learning that I was dead, I was like "yeah sure, I thought as much might happen". But upon reading the narration - here - seriously... I am actually curious now if I might be here for other reason.

Not much to make out of that, though, for the time being. Does anybody else have anything to say on that subject, for that matter?
How about you put it this way:

My role is ___________________

[Aganzir]

I think we had half of the wolves here already before you three newest people came in. :rolleyes:
Hey what's that, a confession? :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

We're 9. There are still 15 warm people. It's statistically likely we have 1-2 wolves here now.

Also, I'm the Hunter.

That was sorta the logical conclusion after yesterDay. Just checkin'.

Nobody of you claimed to be anything else special? (sorry for the questions, but faster to check this way than read the whole thread so we can still chat a bit before going to sleep, instead of me spending a hour rereading stuff)

[the phantom]

So Kitanna, Steve, Gwath, and now 3 night kills.

Compared to when I first viewed and considered the village dynamics, this is a worse scenario.

[the phantom]

Agan is the only special person we know/suspect at this point. But of course Mac has yet to speak, so we'll see.

What are you, Legate?

(And just fyi, Kuru posted a new rule on here that says you have to tell the truth once you are dead.)

[Aganzir]

"Where's my cake," came an unexpected voice.

Not AGAIN!!!!

Why is Legate here?!!!!!!!
http://www.priestessastrology.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Wolf-cake.jpg

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Agan is the only special person we know/suspect at this point. But of course Mac has yet to speak, so we'll see.

What are you, Legate?

(And just fyi, Kuru posted a new rule on here that says you have to tell the truth once you are dead.)
Link please ;) It just sounds like something you'd make up.

[Aganzir]

Nobody of you claimed to be anything else special?
Well, phantom claimed to be a lover.

(And just fyi, Kuru posted a new rule on here that says you have to tell the truth once you are dead.)
Yeah, it sucks.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, phantom claimed to be a lover.


Yeah, it sucks.

That doesn't make much sense anyway. Because why then do you have the whole role-revealing voting, if you can just ask and people have to tell you the truth? Like seriously?

Anyway, I am innocent.

[Nogrod]

(And just fyi, Kuru posted a new rule on here that says you have to tell the truth once you are dead.)
Yeah, it sucks.Kind of takes the bite out of our arguments...

Although there are rumors the rule wouldn't apply to the phantom. :)

[the phantom]

I suppose we ought to calm down with the posting and let the newly dead catch up? It's already looking like this is going to be the active thread now.

[Nogrod]

I suppose we ought to calm down with the posting and let the newly dead catch up? It's already looking like this is going to be the active thread now.You're right. I'm off to sleep (on some decentish time for a while).

Good night and good luck for the early Day!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well actually I sorta skimmed through this thread already (really just skimmed), it turned out to be fairly fast though since lot that's been said looks like just fairly random short banter and all (at least people aren't posting several-paragraphed lengthy analyses. Well, but now *I* am here, mwa ha ha!).

Anyway, the only remark to what I've seen: sorry for probably making you waste your check-vote on Greenie (seems to me you did so because you thought I might be the Seer so she could be Wolf). For that matter, apologies Greenie for the suspicion, so you apparently were just enjoying yourself and being happy because of having lot of time to play, not because of being a Wolf. But all that said, still it's good because now we can be sure and all that. However, if we can choose (of course depending on what happens on the Living thread toDay), I really think you should have checked the phantom, and that's what I would put on the to-do list for the future.

[Nogrod]

One more thing that came to my mind while I was having a cigarette before going to sleep...

the phantom's little joke with claiming to be a lover just ten minutes before the DL kind of made me think about the issue in general. I'm too tired to think through all the ramifications myself now, but would like to bring the issue forth anyway for you others to consider - and well the future lover / ranger who comes here to consider.

The first thing that crossed my mind reading tp's "revealment" was kind of "of course, that's brilliant!" (well it would have made understandable his stubborness in connection with us possibly willing to check him as that would then have been in vain).

The clue sure would be that if the gifted didn't reveal us the gift s/he could observe us more "objectively" as no wolf among us would know to posture to the gifted in the right way. So s/he might get better knowledge out from this thread than if s/he revealed the gift to us (s/he could of course reveal sometime late - like tp "did", like after all voting is done or something).

But on the other hand, if the gifted told us of her/his gift, we could concentrate our efforts to help the village exactly on that D/N, and knowing the info we gather that D/N is the latest thing to go forwards, we could also think our decisions with that in sight.

So what do you think?

Surely it is up to the gifted to decide what to do, but we might help in thinking out some obvious problems in doing it either way - more minds find out more POV's than just one.


Okay, now to bed.

[Aganzir]

at least people aren't posting several-paragraphed lengthy analyses. Well, but now *I* am here, mwa ha ha!).
Hahaha! :D

And don't worry I would have been onto Greenie even without you. :rolleyes:

I'm now going to have a long-delayed date with my bed. Yaaay!

[Aganzir]

The clue sure would be that if the gifted didn't reveal us the gift s/he could observe us more "objectively" as no wolf among us would know to posture to the gifted in the right way.
Yeah that's what I thought earlier that phantom might be doing (even if framing me as his lover wouldn't then have made sense). And I think it's a good idea. The seer should obviously reveal as soon as she comes here, but for the ranger and the lover, waiting would make a lot more sense. Then the wolves among us would never know when it's safe to be checked (not that it's ever safe, you know, but they could argue hard for other people on the night(s) the returning gifted is here).

Another idea - now that the thread is getting longer, should we put together a summary post for the newly deceased before each new phase starts? You know, telling the roles we know and the general ideas we have (such as what we've discussed above).

Okay actually bed now.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yeah that's what I thought earlier that phantom might be doing (even if framing me as his lover wouldn't then have made sense). And I think it's a good idea. The seer should obviously reveal as soon as she comes here, but for the ranger and the lover, waiting would make a lot more sense. Then the wolves among us would never know when it's safe to be checked (not that it's ever safe, you know, but they could argue hard for other people on the night(s) the returning gifted is here).

Another idea - now that the thread is getting longer, should we put together a summary post for the newly deceased before each new phase starts? You know, telling the roles we know and the general ideas we have (such as what we've discussed above).

Okay actually bed now.

That's what I thought might be helpful. That's what I'd do, anyway. Simply so you have at least something to work with once you are here, and then you can look at the rest more in detail, but aren't like "umm... hi guys... wait... I'll spend some time reading and then I'll be back..."

Anyway, bedtime for me too.

[Rikae]

Ok, bad news: I'm the seer.

Neutral? news: tp is innocent.

Good news: Mac is a wolf.

[Macalaure]

Two newly-deads and a bottle of wine. This will end well. :smokin:

In other words, I'm here, and I'm ready and prepared to catch up on 6 pages of your nonsense!

Why did you guys not give out an extra vote yesterDay? You had one job! :p


edit: crossed with EVERYTHING!

[Rikae]

Also Boro, Lommy, Agan and Firefoot. No wolves.

Pretty bad seering, you guys. I'm terribly sorry. But why couldn't anybody have the common decency to suspect me? I'm always suspicious!

Not even you suspected me, Nog. I am disappoint.

EDIT: My next post, #239, at 9:36pm

Morm is looking creepy now. Why did I not look at him earlier? He was under the radar, which is weird for him, and now he comes out and starts steering things in... iffy directions. Grrr.

What do you think, Mac?

[Macalaure]

First: Sorry to Agan! :( I really did think you slipped, and then you acted the same way that I felt when I slipped some time ago. Should've listened to my gut and pushed a waggon against Lottie or Firefoot.

So Greenie is an ordo? Dang. For some reason, being hunter killed, I convinced myself you were a wolf during the Night, and Legate consequently the seer.

Do we know who was wolf-killed and who was special-role killed? If there is a good-aligned assassin in the game, I'd assume I was their kill. I don't see why any wolves would have targeted me last night.
So Legate and Rikae were wolf kills? Legate I understand - seer based the assumption that Greenie was on the other wolf team. And Rikae just because she was considered innocent by everyone?

Also do Mac count as a dead European?
Jawohl! :D


Aaand here I was having fun reading the thread up until the very last post I had to catch up with. :rolleyes:

You're the seer and you've dreamt me. Right. Nobody suspects you, and somewhere in the dead thread someone (forgot who) mentioned you could be the seer, so you snatch the opportunity. Well played. They're probably going to believe you for a good while, and depending on who the real seer is, and how innocent s/he is regarded, and how good s/he is at leaving a track, they might even continue to believe you over him/her.

You had to deliver them a wolf, of course, to be believable, and among the presently dead, I'm the most suspicious. Easy pick.
Agan and tp are innocent. Agan is virtually proven to be, and tp is extremely likely. And both are perfectly reasonable seer picks, of course.
Did you hide both your packmates among Boro, Lommy, and Firefoot? Would be bold, but why not? If one of them joins us at some point, the dead will not bother checking them.

As I said, well played.

[Rikae]

So sorry to spoil your fun, Mac. More wine? :D

At least tp and I can outweigh your vote at the deadline!

So anyway: I would very much like to check Legate, regardless of who joins us next. Between me and all of us, we get three roles, out of the unknowns Rune, Nog, Leggy & whoever.

Unless you want to confirm my role which would be understandable, I guess.

I hope the village manages to get their act together and vote early so we can empower intelligently...

[Macalaure]

More wine?

:rolleyes:







Yes! :D

[the phantom]

Well well... Guess I'd better get out my Rikae page...
You're the seer and you've dreamt me. Right. Nobody suspects you, and somewhere in the dead thread someone (forgot who) mentioned you could be the seer, so you snatch the opportunity. Well played. They're probably going to believe you for a good while, and depending on who the real seer is, and how innocent s/he is regarded, and how good s/he is at leaving a track, they might even continue to believe you over him/her.
Well, maybe. We'll see. We knew this would/could happen, heh. A WW would false reveal just for the pleasure of making us use our Night pick on them instead of elsewhere. You're perfectly right, Mac, but do forgive us if we seem overly trusting of Rikae, as we're rather hungry for information.

Anyway, Rikae, my early notes on you truly echo your lament. When I did my readthrough of the thread I gave G marks (for possible Gifted) plus marks (when someone seemed clearly innocent) and checks (for red flags). You received zero G marks, so if you are the Seer that is fantastic Seer play, I must say! *claps* But, but, you received zero check marks while simultaneously receiving the highest number of pluses in the village, i.e. you looked incredibly innocent. Thus if you are a Wolf, fantastic play again. (Except for the fact that being too innocent gets you killed, ha ha.)

Anyway, who would want you dead if you were the Seer. Not Green's pack, since she isn't a Wolf. You mentioned liking Mac and Morm and voiced suspicion of Lottie, so a pack with Lottie but neither of the boys in it might target you.
I convinced myself you were a wolf during the Night, and Legate consequently the seer.
Yes, you'll note we hypothesized Legate's Seership here during the Night, and if he was targeted as the Seer then the pack that killed him did not include Nerwen, Lommy, or Mith, because they would've been his innocent dreams.

Now Boro listed Rikae, Shasta, Lommy, and Legate as his innocent group of four yesterday. Why wasn't he suspected of being the Seer and killed? Because he had a Wolf from each pack listed as innocent? That would certainly take him off the kill list. Or if he himself is in a pack and listed a Wolf (or two) from another pack.

[Rikae]

Anyway, Rikae, my early notes on you truly echo your lament. When I did my readthrough of the thread I gave G marks (for possible Gifted) plus marks (when someone seemed clearly innocent) and checks (for red flags). You received zero G marks, so if you are the Seer that is fantastic Seer play, I must say! *claps* But, but, you received zero check marks while simultaneously receiving the highest number of pluses in the village, i.e. you looked incredibly innocent. Thus if you are a Wolf, fantastic play again. (Except for the fact that being too innocent gets you killed, ha ha.)


If I may ask...

what did I get plus marks for?

[Macalaure]

phantom, I agree with everything you say, except:
A WW would false reveal just for the pleasure of making us use our Night pick on them instead of elsewhere.
I think a wolf kind of expects to be a highly likely Night pick, and confirming a wolf is among the best information we can get. So I think a werewolf would rather not be picked, and not the other way around. A low-credibility false reveal doesn't benefit a wolf much at all, since all s/he gets is one day of general confusion, but a high-credibility one that people are willing to believe without a check, that is very dangerous.

[the phantom]

If I may ask...

what did I get plus marks for?
I give pluses whenever I find myself nodding and saying, "Yes, they have the measure of it and aren't flavoring the opinion with careful slant."

You received pluses because you kept being right. You weren't painting situations inaccurately, or trying to make them look scarier than they were, or hedging your bets, or trying to discredit ideas by discrediting a source... You didn't take a calculated approach to my plan proposal, but rather you saw precisely its potential and thought that others were downright suspicious for claiming we couldn't do it, or shouldn't attempt it, or that it was oppressive, you didn't try to over-simplify or complicate it etc. A Wolf would have a reason to be spooked and poke holes in a foreign idea that had the potential to hurt them down the road, but an innocent would simply see potential and decide that the opportunity should be grasped.

You didn't even feel that you had to trust me to employ the plan- you were willing to separate guilt from sound tactics, which showed a pure desire to win. Those threatened by the plan could try to weasel out of it by associating it with ME, and thus "We can't just trust Phantom therefore somehow that means something negative about the plan" where as you did not make that error. I also noted your reluctance to lynch Agan, which seemed sensible given her possible Gifted status.
I think a wolf kind of expects to be a highly likely Night pick, and confirming a wolf is among the best information we can get. So I think a werewolf would rather not be picked, and not the other way around.
I was trying to say there that even the most obviously guilty Wolf would have a reason to bait themselves as a Night pick. In this situation it would apply to you, if say you "revealed" now as the Ranger who had been biding his time to see what the false Seer was attempting. You would know such a reveal would be suspect but perhaps you do just well enough that we simply have to check you. OR it could apply to Rikae if she feels the real Seer is still alive on the thread and will probably reveal today (and possibly reveal her as a Wolf), thus she can insist she is the real one and we feel pressured to check her. Whereas if she wouldn't have revealed we might've been more likely to simply trust the Living Thread reveal and write her off as a WW and check someone more interesting. (Basically my statement was less immediately applicable and more hypothetical.)

[the phantom]

By the way, I note that both here and in the Living Thread, Kuru clearly lists Legate as the final member of the dead.
...and Legate of Amon Lanc
Why is Legate here?!!!!!!!
His narration in this thread in particular seems to paint Legate as the odd one. Is anyone willing to interpret that as "Legate was NOT one of the two WW kills"?

Because that certainly would change our pack analysis.

[Macalaure]

Possible.

I wondered why he put "how ironic" behind Rikae in both narrations. Could be just because of our relationship, of course.

[Kuruharan]

By the way, I note that both here and in the Living Thread, Kuru clearly lists Legate as the final member of the dead.


His narration in this thread in particular seems to paint Legate as the odd one. Is anyone willing to interpret that as "Legate was NOT one of the two WW kills"?

Because that certainly would change our pack analysis.

I feel obliged to chime in here to say that you should not place that interpretation on it. Kills are always posted in the narrations in the order they either happen in the Living Thread or the names are turned in by the killers.

It is sequence of events, nothing more.

I just wrote it the way I did because it amused me.

I wondered why he put ironic behind Rikae in both narrations.

I put ironic in because you were turned in to me one after the other. That too I found amusing. ;)

[Macalaure]

In other words, if we want to figure out who was killed by what, we're on our own.

[the phantom]

If Legate wasn't Wolf-killed, then that means he wasn't a quality Seer suspect, despite the fact that he kept gunning for Green and she was then brought down by the Hunter. The Wolf packs would have no way of knowing that Green wasn't a Wolf- they would assume she was in the other pack. Thus why would they doubt his Seership? Only if he listed one or more of them as innocent- Nerwen, Lommy, Mith were his innocents.

Assuming Rikae is telling the truth, Lommy is cleared, which leaves either-
(1) Nerwen in pack A and Mith in pack B
(2) Legate in pack A and Nerwen and/or Mith in pack B

Is this line of reasoning too ungrounded to explore further? I mean, maybe the pack(s) wasn't even targeting the Seer. Why would they target Rikae? If Lottie was a member? Why would they target Mac? Once again, Lottie would've had cause, but she obviously can't be in both packs. Was it Mac himself that did away with Rikae?