Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Eönwë]

May you find peace and healing Pitch through these hard times.

Ok, so I think it would be best to explain my oddness yesterday, because I feel like since Day 1 I could be jumped on and lynched in half a heart beat, which is I guess a normal feeling. That would not be good, but everyone deserves an explanation for me being mysterious yesterday.

Rewind to Day 4, I proposed a vote of Lhuna to the QT. That led to the lynching of a wolf. I couldn't remember if anyone else proposed Lhuna, or if it was just me, but I speculated yesterday that it must have meant the innocents in the QT trusted someone here.

I wanted to point the wolves to me and provide cover for the seer, but kind of put me in a bind because I suspected I was the one the QT trusted. So I picked an even more random proposed vote of Rune yesterday. And when the QT agreed it confirmed my feelings. I commented that it was fascinating, because mostly I was amused with being trusted. Got to thinking that a healthy minds don't trust me at all, but something happens when going into the QT that suddenly I was. What does that say about me? Fascinating and amusing.

But the reason for the mystery is I was trying to provide cover for the seer, but send as clear as a signal to the QT that I wasn't so they don't have to follow my vote.

I don't see any benefit to keep up that plan, it was kind of a 1-2 day try to provide cover and maybe get another wolf. In the end I'll be vindicated either in death or in victory. And it will be more beneficial to the community to know this. Maybe I laid it on too thick where the wolves didn't believe it or I have to re-orientate myself and rethink my feelings on others.

In general, I don't think we should sort of play this waiting where not much happens until the QT vote. Part of it is my own schedule, If I don't post at night I definitely won't be able to until 3-4 hours before the DL.

I was wondering when you'd admit to pretending to be the seer, but I honestly find it very hard to believe you.

Lalaith got killed immediately after bringing up your possible wolf-slip, and then Pitch, who brought it up yesterDay, got killed last Night. Either the wolves are expending an incredible amount of effort (when they could be actually looking for the seer) trying to set you up, or you're a wolf.

After your all-but-reveal yesterDay, I decided to not go after you too hard for the rest of the Day to give you the benefit of the doubt, but given that two Nights have passed and you're still alive (and we know the wolves picked up on Kit's slip, even if they did wait a Day), I don't find it likely that your fake-seeriness was innocent.

[Eönwë]

The only possible thing I can imagine that might have led the wolves to not kill you is if they were absolutely certain you were not the seer because you voted for me two Days in a row (and if you were the seer you probably would've actually dreamed me if you suspected me), but I find that highly unlikely.

[Eönwë]

I find it more likely that if anything, your fake-seeriness was an attempt to catch the real seer, which is why the two people who challenged you on it, Lalaith and Pitch, are dead.

[Loslote]

I was wondering when you'd admit to pretending to be the seer, but I honestly find it very hard to believe you.

Lalaith got killed immediately after bringing up your possible wolf-slip, and then Pitch, who brought it up yesterDay, got killed last Night. Either the wolves are expending an incredible amount of effort (when they could be actually looking for the seer) trying to set you up, or you're a wolf.

After your all-but-reveal yesterDay, I decided to not go after you too hard for the rest of the Day to give you the benefit of the doubt, but given that two Nights have passed and you're still alive (and we know the wolves picked up on Kit's slip, even if they did wait a Day), I don't find it likely that your fake-seeriness was innocent.

On the other hand, if he was the Seer, and he hinted that blatantly, he would have told us his information before the end of the Day. I did think he might be the Seer when he started hinting, but by the time the Day was over, I was pretty convinced he wasn't, and had pretended to be hinting for his own reasons. I assume the wolves had a similar thought process. The Seer doesn't hint without claiming and giving the village their dreams before they die, that would be ridiculous.

[Eönwë]

On the other hand, if he was the Seer, and he hinted that blatantly, he would have told us his information before the end of the Day. I did think he might be the Seer when he started hinting, but by the time the Day was over, I was pretty convinced he wasn't, and had pretended to be hinting for his own reasons. I assume the wolves had a similar thought process. The Seer doesn't hint without claiming and giving the village their dreams before they die, that would be ridiculous.

You mean yesterDay or the Day before?

I suspect the first thing he said, that Lalaith picked up on, was actually a slip, and after Lalaith picked up on, they (or at least he) tried to capitalize on it by making it too obvious the next Day.

[Loslote]

I find it more likely that if anything, your fake-seeriness was an attempt to catch the real seer, which is why the two people who challenged you on it, Lalaith and Pitch, are dead.

This is a valid point, but there are a bunch of reasons to pretend to be the Seer. It might divert attention away from the real Seer, and it might make people nervous - I noticed that everyone got a lot quieter after Boro started hinting, and I started trying to see who got a bit more nervous and less willing to tie themselves to people while we waited to see if he'd caught a wolf! Could it have been a way to try to bait the Seer? Could be, I don't think we can ignore that, but it's certainly not the only plausible reason to do it. I personally felt that Boro's play here seemed very much like something an innocent Boro would be likely to do.

[Loslote]

You mean yesterDay or the Day before?

I suspect the first thing he said, that Lalaith picked up on, was actually a slip, and after Lalaith picked up on, they (or at least he) tried to capitalize on it by making it too obvious the next Day.

YesterDay. I didn't really notice the slip the Day before until it got brought back up.

[Eönwë]

And even if they did think it was ridiculous, Boro does sometimes play bold moves, and would it really be worth the risk for the wolves to let him live? I admit I haven't played as a wolf in a long time, but I at least feel like some packs wouldn't chance it.


edit: x-ed since my last post.

[Boromir88]

Thanks for explaining - I wasn't sure what you were up to, haha! Even not knowing what you were doing, I didn't think your hinting had wolfish vibes at all, which is why I kind of backed off without actually saying so. I do feel good about this explanation. It feels genuine and like something an innocent Boro would absolutely try. Do you have a theory as to why the wolves didn't Night kill you?

Don't know other than perhaps my assumptions of people being innocent were wrong. Like I've assumed Brinn's innocence since the 2 times the QT voted for her. That could have been wrong.

Currently I find THE Ka the most suspicious, but if she is a wolf I don't think I sent any strong signals that I had insight/dreamed her.

The strongest I've sent was yesterday towards my vote for Eonwe for jumping on the QT vote. So I could be wrong there, which would tip them off to me not being the seer

I was wondering when you'd admit to pretending to be the seer, but I honestly find it very hard to believe you.

Lalaith got killed immediately after bringing up your possible wolf-slip, and then Pitch, who brought it up yesterDay, got killed last Night. Either the wolves are expending an incredible amount of effort (when they could be actually looking for the seer) trying to set you up, or you're a wolf.

After your all-but-reveal yesterDay, I decided to not go after you too hard for the rest of the Day to give you the benefit of the doubt, but given that two Nights have passed and you're still alive (and we know the wolves picked up on Kit's slip, even if they did wait a Day), I don't find it likely that your fake-seeriness was innocent.

I'm someone everyone suspects. If I've gotten my suspicions and/or who I've assumed as innocent wrong then the wolves would know I'm not the seer. Which means they would let me stay around to keep me as an easy lynch. I haven't acquired a lot of votes yet, but I don't think it's going to take a lot of convincing to lynch me. Why kill a person no one trusts, and who you can tell isn't gifted, when it's rather obvious Rikae, Legate, Pitch were more trusted?

[Loslote]

And even if they did think it was ridiculous, Boro does sometimes play bold moves, and would it really be worth the risk for the wolves to let him live? I admit I haven't played as a wolf in a long time, but I at least feel like some packs wouldn't chance it.

Maybe ridiculous is the wrong word. As a Seer, if you know you've been hinting and that basically everyone noticed, I can't think of a single scenario where you wouldn't reveal what you know. Unless every single person you dreamed of is already dead, I guess. If you know you're almost certainly going to be killed, you tell the village what you know. The fact that he didn't say anything before the deadline about his dreams told me he was NOT the Seer, and I'm sure the wolves were also able to figure that one out.

[Eönwë]

This is a valid point, but there are a bunch of reasons to pretend to be the Seer. It might divert attention away from the real Seer, and it might make people nervous - I noticed that everyone got a lot quieter after Boro started hinting, and I started trying to see who got a bit more nervous and less willing to tie themselves to people while we waited to see if he'd caught a wolf! Could it have been a way to try to bait the Seer? Could be, I don't think we can ignore that, but it's certainly not the only plausible reason to do it. I personally felt that Boro's play here seemed very much like something an innocent Boro would be likely to do.

I can see where you're coming from. Maybe I'm not being completely fair to the idea of an innocent Boro doing this because I already strongly suspect him, but there are already other reasons to suspect him. Additionally, I was willing to buy that some of the weird focuses and lists that he made (that made me suspicious) were something he would do as a seer to leave hints/clues that he could show later, but if he's just an innocent I don't buy it.

[Eönwë]

Maybe ridiculous is the wrong word. As a Seer, if you know you've been hinting and that basically everyone noticed, I can't think of a single scenario where you wouldn't reveal what you know. Unless every single person you dreamed of is already dead, I guess. If you know you're almost certainly going to be killed, you tell the village what you know. The fact that he didn't say anything before the deadline about his dreams told me he was NOT the Seer, and I'm sure the wolves were also able to figure that one out.

I still think his potential slip the previous Day (where it looked like he knew the identity of two innocents - now proven to be true) would be enough to make me want to make sure if I were a wolf.

[Eönwë]

By which I mean Zil was proven to be true. The jury is still out on Brinn and maybe Lommy (depending on how you read the post).

[Eönwë]

I'll share the whole interaction here:

I would say most of our days have gone far too narrow. We put ourselves into pretty much just 2 options. Day 1 was G55 and Brinn. Day 2 Mac and Huey, Yesterday Inzil and sally. Today Lommy and Inzil.

I don't know a whole lot about the advocates for it, but I think we need a day where there's a lot more spread. Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

How do you know that's what happened on Day 1?
Hmm?

I'm willing to bet G55 and Huey had fun trolling us for 2 days in the QT.

so presumably you think Zil is innocent too?

He is not my preferred choice today, because I think we should take the signal from the QT. It's been my argument for several days now. I want to test this proposed voting and signals between here and the QT. Other than that reason, I couldn't say.

It would be a lot easier to argue that this wasn't a slip if it turned out that

[Thinlómien]

(trying to keep this a little briefer for my own sanity but also yours)


Day1

Banter, fake vote discussion, qt talk. The only straightforward commentary I can find about people's roles are that Boro "leaning innocentish" but so is Hui; Rikae and Shasta are their "usual self". Voted Brinniel who he had found mildly suspicious earlier.

Thoughts: nothing there really, even if you squint. If he was thought the seer, then certainly the submarine type who doesn't give any clues of his dreams early on. (Side note: if the wolves are even rereading Day1 anymore. Maybe I'm the only one who does that. :rolleyes: )


Day2

Speculates about Rikae kill leading to Brinn. Mild suspicion of a few deceased innocents and of Hui. Greenie is "leaning innocent" after an analysis. Cast possibly the most pivotal Hui vote.

Thoughts: I guess wolves out of ideas might latch onto the Huine thing. Brinnwolf? A Little Ordo? Duh, can't make much out of this.


Day3

Suspicion of Eönwë based on his Hui vote looking like wolf-on-wolf. (Side note: this is the third dead person in a row to have suspected Eönwë. It's getting a bit of a stretch to look like a coincidence to me.) Backs down from being so sure of Greenie's innocence, speculates Hui-Brinn-Greenie combo. Adds me, Lottie, and Zil as possible Hui-packmates. (By this time he's suspected half the village it seems.) Main suspects, Eönwë and Lottie, followed by Brinn. Voted Eönwë as a "throwaway".

Thoughts: ...Eönwolf? He didn't even call ANYONE innocent-looking during the whole Day!


Day4

"It really sucks to loose Legate - maybe the only player I felt I could trust (although I felt pretty good about Mac too yesterDay)" = Legate and Mac were his innocent seer dreams? Suspects me and to a slightly lesser extent Lottie (based on Day3 lynch events) early in the Day, then doessomething of a legate180 on both. Soft suspects half the village. Still suspects Eönwë (now says since D1) and ends up voting him. Slightly mistrustful of the QT.

Gonna quote his whole list/ fake vote post from the end of the Day:

+-Eönwë

For reasons explained yesterDay, plus I'd have expected an innocent to react a bit stronger to this continued suspicion.

An unordered list:


Zil and/or Lommy - on the fence

Boro - haven't studied him enough to form a qualified opinion.
Brinn and/or Greenie - wary for involvement in sallywagon, but apart from the bit from Greenie I quoted above nothing in yesterDay's posts really stood out as fishy
Lottie - leaning innocent
Rune - no wolfy vibes so far
Kath - see Rune
Lhuna - darned if I know; she's a slippery fish in the sense that I can't quite get a cognitive grip on her
Lalaith - a bit like Lhuna but less so (does this make any sense?)
THE Ka - another one; like somebody said, she seems to exist in a bubble of her own at one remove from what else is happening
Shasta - not concerned so far, we'll see what happens when he gets more involved

Thoughts: I guess you could read this as Wolfwë and innocent!Rune and innocent!Kath having been dreamed of?


Day5

Questions Boro, ends up with thinking him innocent. QT distrust continues. Speculates about Greenie being a wolf (inconclusive), starts a debacle with "Eönwë, Shasta and Greenie hinge on each other in my mind to some degree." Wonders is Shasta is innocent and Eönwë and Ka evil. Main suspect Eönwë, followed by Ka and Zil. Pretty sure but not entirely convinced of Rune's innocence. Votes Zil, stating he "believes Rune".

Thoughts: ? Innocent Son of Bjarne? Eönwë keeps standing out too.


Conclusions: I see very little here that would make me as a wolf think Pitch was the seer - basically regardless of my potential fellows' identities. The only thing that stands out to me is - once again, may I underline - Eönwë. I wonder if the wolves went for Pitch based on general "potentially gifted"* vibe, especially if they didn't have the time to read through his posts. I guess they could have thought him the Russian roulette kind of seer too who doesn't leave traces but instead wagers on living long enough to reveal. I'm a bit at loss here.

* fun thing, I personally thought Pitch might be gifted back on Day1 because he seemed so tense. I was ready to accuse him of jumpiness before I had a brainwave he might be a jumpy gifted instead of a jumpy wolf and shut up.


Addendum: gonna x with everybody.

[Loslote]

I still think his potential slip the previous Day (where it looked like he knew the identity of two innocents - now proven to be true) would be enough to make me want to make sure if I were a wolf.

By which I mean Zil was proven to be true. The jury is still out on Brinn and maybe Lommy (depending on how you read the post).

.........this seems like a worse slip that the one you're trying to point out.

[Eönwë]

The all-but-reveal yesterDay:


Looking through Lalaith's posts right now, and the first thing to catch my eye was this:




Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

How do you know that's what happened on Day 1?
Hmm?

This is actually a very good question which I'd like Boro to answer.





Looking through Lalaith's posts right now, and the first thing to catch my eye was this:


This is actually a very good question which I'd like Boro to answer.

I already answered yesterday and won't say anymore. If you want to know it's easy to find. I'm rather surprised, grateful, but surprised.

If I recall, evil side holds the tie-breaker, because Lhuna was the last lynch. But 6-3 advantage means we'd have to have a bunch of squabbling innocents in order to get a bad QT vote.

I'm certainly going to continue the good ground we began yesterday with the QT vote and feel I should get a tiny apology. Not a big one, but a small one, because the living and dead worked together and we did what I advocated we should have done for days.





I already answered yesterday and won't say anymore. If you want to know it's easy to find. I'm rather surprised, grateful, but surprised.
You mean this, which you posted in reply to Lal's question?
I'm willing to bet G55 and Huey had fun trolling us for 2 days in the QT.
I don't see how this is an answer.





You mean this, which you posted in reply to Lal's question?

I don't see how this is an answer.

Yep. You can put it together to make sense of it. Unless you're trying to get me to commit to something I'm not going to, at the moment?





Yep. You can put it together to make sense of it. Unless you're trying to get me to commit to something I'm not going to, at the moment?
So I suppose you're talking bout this, right?

"I'm voting G55 to avoid Brinn getting lynched" = wolf having trouble trying to create fake suspicions. So his reasoning isn't based on faked suspicions, but on what he KNOWS. Brinn is innocent.
If you're convinced that was his reasoning, fair enough, I suppose.


edit:trying to fix formatting but it doesn't want to work

[Eönwë]

.........this seems like a worse slip that the one you're trying to point out.

Haha yeah, I typed too quickly and tried to write two sentences at the same time and messed up. It would be hypocritical to tell you to ignore it though given the situation.

[Loslote]

Haha yeah, I typed too quickly and tried to write two sentences at the same time and messed up. It would be hypocritical to tell you to ignore it though given the situation.

So like, it could've been a typo. But also, it feels like you came out here toDay on a crusade to convince us that Boro's Seer hints plus the wolves not killing him means he's definitely a wolf. Which feels like the wolves decided he wasn't the Seer, and decided to go after him instead - which would be especially important if the wolves needed a big distraction to take the heat off of them. I am wildly suspicious of you at this point, Eonwe.

[Thinlómien]

!"#¤%&/()(/&%%&

[censored] Boro!!!!

ARE

YOU

FREAKING

KIDDING

ME

Here I have sat like an IDIOT for DAYS thinking you're the seer and tearing my hair every time you made some "stupid slip" or defended me too openly or was "too obvious" like your last post yesterDay

and

I HAVE ALSO PROBABLY MADE MYSELF LOOK LIKE A FOOL bouncing around some fake suspicion of you while putting off actually considering your role "until the seer reveal, whether it's Boro, or if it's someone else I'm gonna look at him extra hard to make up for this" because I thought I'm being very clever "protecting the seer" :rolleyes::mad::rolleyes:

?????????????!!!!!!!!!!

I need to lie down. This werewolf game is my biggest fiasco in ages. Next Eönwë can tell me he's innocent and that will be the last nail to my fool's coffin.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

.........this seems like a worse slip that the one you're trying to point out.

-snicker-

[Loslote]

!"#¤%&/()(/&%%&

[censored] Boro!!!!

ARE

YOU

FREAKING

KIDDING

ME

Here I have sat like an IDIOT for DAYS thinking you're the seer and tearing my hair every time you made some "stupid slip" or defended me too openly or was "too obvious" like your last post yesterDay

and

I HAVE ALSO PROBABLY MADE MYSELF LOOK LIKE A FOOL bouncing around some fake suspicion of you while putting off actually considering your role "until the seer reveal, whether it's Boro, or if it's someone else I'm gonna look at him extra hard to make up for this" because I thought I'm being very clever "protecting the seer"

I KNEW I saw something going on there!!! :p

[Eönwë]

So like, it could've been a typo. But also, it feels like you came out here toDay on a crusade to convince us that Boro's Seer hints plus the wolves not killing him means he's definitely a wolf. Which feels like the wolves decided he wasn't the Seer, and decided to go after him instead - which would be especially important if the wolves needed a big distraction to take the heat off of them. I am wildly suspicious of you at this point, Eonwe.

The main reason for this is that I was holding back on this yesterDay because I was worried that he actually was the Seer (and was frustrated about it - see my post yesteDay about the silencing of slips after Kit's), but when another Night passed and he was still alive, I just wanted to get this out of the way now and bring it into the open. And then catching up I saw his first post 'explaining himself', and was made more suspicious, because it looks to me like he had to explain away why he was pretending to be the seer, and why he was still alive (with his 'Maybe I laid it on too thick' comment).


Also, things are getting urgent - by my calculations we have to catch a wolf by toMorrow or we lose. No time to beat around the bush.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

That Inzil QT, though. Rune was the counterwagon, as I recall (which was also a bit of a "huh" where I was concerned, QT vote notwithstanding.)

Eonwe voted Rune and tied him with Inzil at 2, which is interesting, and kinda makes me feel better about Rune. How likely is it the tally was innocent-vs-innocent yesterday? Fairly, I'd say, with Ka's vote at the end.

[Eönwë]

I KNEW I saw something going on there!!! :p

Yeah, everyone's been holding back.

[Thinlómien]

Okay. I have lied down. I have breathed.

I still wanna punch Boro a little but yeah - this is exactly the kind of [censored] he would pull as an innocent. Don't see any point in him doing it if he's a wolf. (Unless this is a phantomesque double bluff where he's pretending to be an ordo pretending to be the seer????)

(I might still have the closer look at him. HE DESERVES IT. Or I DESERVE IT. Whatever. :rolleyes::D)

Frankly whatever Eönwë is doing now doesn't look very good, especially combined with every freaking dead person for the last three Nights having suspected him in a conspicuous way.

Also since Boro's "stupid last minute list" from yesterDay which made me throw some absolutely pointless panic last minute suspicion at him :rolleyes: listed me and Brinn as innocent and miraculously didn't get him killed, does that mean Brinn is a wolf after all?

[Eönwë]

But this makes me feel a lot better about Lommy and Brinn now.

[Loslote]

That Inzil QT, though. Rune was the counterwagon, as I recall (which was also a bit of a "huh" where I was concerned, QT vote notwithstanding.)

Eonwe voted Rune and tied him with Inzil at 2, which is interesting, and kinda makes me feel better about Rune. How likely is it the tally was innocent-vs-innocent yesterday? Fairly, I'd say, with Ka's vote at the end.

Yes, I think that's probably right.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Regardless of whether Boro is telling the truth or not, I think it's likely the QT'ed innocents believed him to be the Seer. We could test that theory with having them follow Boro's vote again today, if we thought it mattered.

[Loslote]

But this makes me feel a lot better about Lommy and Brinn now.

...why Brinn? Sorry, didn't follow that one.

[Eönwë]

Regardless of whether Boro is telling the truth or not, I think it's likely the QT'ed innocents believed him to be the Seer. We could test that theory with having them follow Boro's vote again today, if we thought it mattered.

Wow, that's giving Boro a lot of power, isn't it? To quote Pitch: *ping*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

But this makes me feel a lot better about Lommy and Brinn now.

As Lottie pointed out, two of the most pivotal votes for Inzil yesterday. Neat.

Lommy I have felt better about here in the last couple minutes she's been yelling at Boro. :p

Brinn? Hmm.

[Eönwë]

...why Brinn? Sorry, didn't follow that one.

I mean if Boro is a wolf. Day 1 was between (as far as the wolves knew) 2 innocents.

Lommy's reaction makes me feel better about her regardless.

[Loslote]

If any one of Ka, Rune, or Eonwe isn't a wolf, it's got to be Shasta, Boro, or Brinn - but I think there are a minimum of two wolves in that Ka/Rune/Eonwe threesome, and I really think we need to lynch one of them toDay.

So if it isn't Boro, and it isn't Rune, then that leaves Shasta (who I don't really suspect) or Brinn, who I don't have a great read on. And...oh, wait...

But this makes me feel a lot better about Lommy and Brinn now.

So maybe a Ka/Eonwe/Brinn pack makes a lot of sense after all.

[Loslote]

I mean if Boro is a wolf. Day 1 was between (as far as the wolves knew) 2 innocents.

Lommy's reaction makes me feel better about her regardless.

And how do YOU know that?

[Eönwë]

Bold is evil, italics is good.

Day 1
Lhuna -> Lhuna
Rikae -> Brinniel
G55 -> Rikae
Boro -> Pitchwife
Urwen -> G55
Pitchwife -> Brinniel (2)
Kath -> G55 (2)
Shasta -> Pitchwife (2)
Kitanna -> Pitchwife (3)
Inzil -> G55 (3)
Lottie -> G55 (4)
Greenie -> Macalaure
THE Ka -> Brinniel (3)
Eönwë -> Urwen
Rune -> Brinniel (4)
Lommy -> G55 (5)
Huines -> G55 (6)
Legate -> Brinn (5)
Macalaure -> Brinn (6)
Brinniel -> G55 (7)
---G55 Fake Ranger Reveal---
Sally -> Brinn (7)

Reminder: while G55 is evil, because she's the Cobbler she and the Infectors didn't know who each other were at this point.



Day 2
Lommy -> Macalaure
Kath -> Inzil
Lhuna -> Lommy
Macalaure -> Lommy 2
QT -> Brinniel
Greenie -> Macalaure 2
Legate -> Huinesoron
Huinesoron -> Macalaure 3
Rune -> Loslote
Kitanna -> Huinesoron 2
THE Ka -> Loslote 2
Pitchwife -> Huinesoron 3
Loslote -> Huinesoron 4
Sally -> Macalaure 4
Inzil -> Macalaure 5
Lalaith -> Huinesoron 5
Brinn -> Huinesoron 6
Boro -> Mac 6
Eönwë -> Huinesoron 7
Shasta -> Mac


Day 3
THE Ka -> Sally
QT -> Brinn
Eönwë -> Sally 2
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Sally 3
Lommy -> Sally 4
--- Sally Hunter reveal---
Inzil -> Brinn 2
Lottie -> Sally 5
Lalaith -> Sally 6
Legate -> Sally 7
Shasta -> Sally 8
Brinn -> Sally 9
Rune -> Inzil 2
Boro -> Sally 10
Pitch -> Eonwe



Day 4
Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2
Lalaith -> Lhuna 3
Lommy -> Lhuna 4
Rune -> Eönwë 3
Kath -> Lhuna 5
Shasta -> Lhuna 6
Boro -> Eönwë 4
Brinn -> Lhuna 7



Day 5
QT -> Rune
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Inzil 2
Shasta -> THE Ka
Eönwë -> Rune 2
Boro -> Eönwë
Inzil -> Rune 3
Lommy -> Inzil 3
Lottie -> Rune 4
Brinn -> Inzil 4
Rune -> Inzil 5
Pitch -> Inzil 6
THE Ka -> Shasta

[Thinlómien]

But this makes me feel a lot better about Lommy and Brinn now. ??? Why??

The logical conclusion is the opposite, unless Boro is a wolf himself. And if he was a wolf, I don't think it would say much?

If Boro is an innocent and he didn't get killed for a seerish post that listed me and Brinn as the most innocent and you as the most suspicious, then I would think it rather points at either me or Brinn being guilty or you being innocent?

I know I'm innocent and I'm pretty suspicious of you, so this leads me to suspecting Brinn. (Whom I thought was most likely innocent but tbh I might have been a little muddled up by operating on the assumption she was "seer!Boro"'s other known innocent. :rolleyes: )

But I'm really in a bit of a loop here because logic says I should reconsider Eönwë but then again he made that slip which implied he knows me and Brinn are innocent and sdfghjklkjh. Okay. One of Eönwë and Brinn surely is a wolf?? Unless plot twist it's Boro after all?

Guess what guys? I'm going to sleep.......


edit: xed with 1283 and onwards

[Loslote]

Also, if Borowolf suspected the Cuties were just echoing his vote, that means he could have single handedly steered the entire living thread every single Day. If he was actually a wolf, why would he EVER give up that kind of power???

[Eönwë]

And how do YOU know that?

As in, if Boro was a wolf, that was the slip that Lalaith picked up on. See her first post:


Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

How do you know that's what happened on Day 1?
Hmm?

[Eönwë]

Also, if Borowolf suspected the Cuties were just echoing his vote, that means he could have single handedly steered the entire living thread every single Day. If he was actually a wolf, why would he EVER give up that kind of power???

Presumably he thought he would be better served by 'coming out' about why he was pretending to be the seer.

[Loslote]

Presumably he thought he would be better served by 'coming out' about why he was pretending to be the seer.

Why pretend to be the Seer at all? If he thinks the Cuties are echoing him, and he proved yesterDay that we will absolutely follow the Cuties, then he could have just tested that quietly. He didn't need to draw attention to himself or the situation, he could have just continued to quietly steer the village.

[Thinlómien]

DID EÖNWË AGAIN SLIP HE KNOWS BRINN IS INNOCENT?

(or has he given up and is fabricating wolf slips to make packmate Brinn look good at this point??)


edit: xed, okay I see not. Yeah I need to sleep.

[Eönwë]

Why pretend to be the Seer at all? If he thinks the Cuties are echoing him, and he proved yesterDay that we will absolutely follow the Cuties, then he could have just tested that quietly. He didn't need to draw attention to himself or the situation, he could have just continued to quietly steer the village.

As I said, I think it was first a slip, then Lalaith picked up on it and got killed, then he semi-revealed to quell discussion on the topic. But toDay he realised that it was too suspicious to continue to pretend to be the seer and still be alive.

[Eönwë]

DID EÖNWË AGAIN SLIP HE KNOWS BRINN IS INNOCENT?

(or has he given up and is fabricating wolf slips to make packmate Brinn look good at this point??)


edit: xed

Again, if Boro is a wolf, then Day 1 was between two innocents.

[Eönwë]

But I'm really in a bit of a loop here because logic says I should reconsider Eönwë but then again he made that slip which implied he knows me and Brinn are innocent and sdfghjklkjh. Okay. One of Eönwë and Brinn surely is a wolf?? Unless plot twist it's Boro after all?

But if it was a slip, which two would I be talking about? Because there are three people that are implied innocent by this - you, Zil, and Brinn. Zil has been confirmed.

[Thinlómien]

Parting thought: we certainly need a new communication mode with the QTs toDay. Prudent subject of discussion would be: what.

I'm a little bummed out that we were basically following Boro's suggestions, not the dead innocents'.

But it did get us Lhuna.

Which would be the most evil wolf-on-wolf in history btw if Boro is a wolf, because seriously what better way to gain our trust.

But yeah. Perhaps Borowolf would rather have toned down the seer hints (so that he wouldn't eventually have to explain to his fellow villagers like he did toDay) and concentrated on excercising his power over the QT.

Anyway wolf or innocent, I think we can all agree Boro is absolutely eeevil. :rolleyes::D

[Eönwë]

Thoughts as I return to work for a bit:

Whether or not the Zil-lynch yesterDay was orchestrated by the wolves (will need to look into who got it to happen), what was shown is that the village can be pushed to ignore the innocent QT's vote. This is bad.

For this reason, even if Rune is innocent, there is probably at least one wolf in the Zil-waggon (if Rune is innocent, possibly early on, if not, potentially also later), in the posts arguing to ignore/mistrust the QT vote, and/or of pushing for B]Zil[/B] as a vote-candidate. I suspect more than one, but off the top of my head I don't know who is in these categories. I think it is a top priority of the wolves to discredit an innocent-led QT that has led to the quarantining of one of their fellows.

[Boromir88]

I feel like needing to hide from Lommy for a moment.

Anyway I feel like you're someone I have a pretty good read on as I said from the start your flip-flopping reads like an actual argument with yourself I can imagine when you're innocent. When you're a wolf it's like since you already know guilt or innocent you force yourself to come up with a reason to flip-flop. I don't know other way to say it other than it doesn't look natural. A few times I reconsidered. The main one your first post after sally's lynch I said wasn't particularly helpful. But at that point I was more sure Lhuna's clean voting record was suspicious. Then when she turned out wolf I thought I'd just go for it and give the plan a try for the day.

In the end seer is still alive, so maybe it didn't work as I had intended, but to some extent it did. Since it didn't work fully as I intended, I thought there's no point in trying to do it again today.

Especially considering a fickle group that waits too long to get the QT vote before the action starts. Unless Rune's actually is a wolf then maybe it did more harm than good? I don't know, after still being alive I just didn't want the QT thinking I was the seer because we're getting down to the nitty-gritty where odd plans aren't worth the risk. And it was better to get it out now instead of waiting for the QT vote.

In an effort to move on...I stand by this from yesterday:

For what it's worth, I would say stay the course, if you weren't going to vote for Rune before the QT vote came out and are only considering him for those reasons than better to go with Ka.

Which I understood Lottie's response THE Ka didn't seem like a viable option at that point yesterday. She should be one today.

I'm rather torn with Eonwe at the moment. He was the one I was pegging down as a wolf, and the fact that my plan to be night-killed didn't happen makes me think that he's not. I jumped on him for his defense of his vote for Rune, because of the QT vote. Same reasons I'm suspicious of The Ka, her vote for Lhuna was a "well the QT says so."

Eonwe replied he'd been suspicious of Rune for days:

I've been suspicious of Rune since the beginning (early on I put it down to his bias against me, but he's done nothing to make me feel better about him), and there's a very very low probability of the QT trying to deceive us, unlike 3 players here.

Which didn't make sense, at least Rune wasn't one of his primary suspects. He always seemed to be on me, Zil, Lommy and sally.

The single funniest comment of the game was when Mac said something about apparently Eonwe could be convinced to lynch half the village. Which I thought was accurate, so maybe technically you can claim you were suspicious of Rune since the beginning. But he didn't seem like one of your primary considerations until the QT vote yesterday.

Edit: cross posting with a bunch

[Brinniel]

Geez people, you're making my head spin!

Boro - I just don't know what to think of him and all of this. Part of me wants to think him innocent, but honestly, it could go either way.

I'm rather bummed over the results of Inzil's lynching. I really thought I was right about him and now knowing his innocence has made me realize I need to rethink some people. One of which being Kath, who I felt okay about mainly due to the fact that I agreed with her suspicions and now I'm not so sure.

Lottie I'm also less sure about. I've initially thought her more innocent due to her Hui vote and the fact that she voted Sally when she could possibly be hunting her. But I can't discount the possibility Lottie could be a very bold wolf. Anyway, I think it less likely that she and Boro are both wolves.

[THE Ka]

there is probably at least one wolf in the Zil-waggon (if Rune is innocent, possibly early on, if not, potentially also later), in the posts arguing to ignore/mistrust the QT vote, and/or of pushing for B]Zil[/B] as a vote-candidate. I suspect more than one, but off the top of my head I don't know who is in these categories. I think it is a top priority of the wolves to discredit an innocent-led QT that has led to the quarantining of one of their fellows.

I was reading through Day 5 again and got to wondering about Zil-voters and their opinion/interaction with the QT vote that Day or their stance on the QT vote in general. Apologies in advance (especially to you Rune, I know you're not too fond of them), but this is going to be a long list post due to the volume of content from yesterDay.
Note: It does not include quotes or references directly from any day prior to Day 5. This list took me nearly two hours to compile and fix for formatting, so if you want anything earlier you'll have to go do your own data hunting, sorry.

Zil-votes Day 5:

Kath – Inzil
Greenie – Inzil
Lommy – Inzil
Brinn – Inzil
Rune – Inzil
*Pitch – Inzil

*Selected by wolves, Night 6. Villager, Non-gifted.

Previously suspected to point of voting on prior Days: Brinn, Rune.

Opinion of QT vote Day 5: Ignore/Mistrust or Follow:

Kath -
#1097: And the QT made an excellent showing of themselves, too. YesterDay, quite a few people put down their planned vote options long before the QT vote had to be made. Is that something we want to do again toDay on the assumption that it did help?
(Ref. to Lhuna QT vote Day)
Lal's push for the village listening to the QT I think again would have made the wolves suspect she might be the Seer. There goes the QT literally naming a wolf an no one seems to listen, so she brings it to the forefront.
#1103: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it. Only references Eonwe’s pattern of voting earlier since Hui-vote Day.
#1109: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it. Only apologises for forgetting to put ‘fake vote’ choices in previous post and resumes doing so.
#1120: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it. No indirect mention of QT.
#1149: Vote-post. Mention of QT:
I was holding on to see what the QT vote would be, but I do have to go, and I don't have time to look into the possible reasoning behind this, so I will go with what I said earlier.
(Ref. to post #1120 mention of Lhuna and Zil)
- No further posts for Day 5 -

Greenie -
#1057: Some mention of previous QT vote in regard to timing from other players of personal votes. Makes note of when players have voted before or after QT vote, specifically in Pitch and Rune analysis.
#1086: The Lhunawagon came about pretty quickly and only after the QT vote; though a few of us had said they found her somewhat suspicious, it looked like most people were pretty surprised by the QT picking her. So yes, I'd expect to see some wolf-on-wolf among the Lhuna voters, but not an orchestrated plot to sacrifice her.
(Ref. to selected Boro quote about Lhuna and possible wolf-on-wolf vote plan)
#1092: Lommy makes a good point about giving the QT some warning about what we're up to.
Gives ‘fake-vote’ prior to QT vote deadline.
#1169: Vote-post. No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
- No further posts for Day 5 -

Lommy –
#1053: In reply to quote from Zil:
it is true that he can talk about his live fellows in an incriminating way and that way the qt innocents have access to evidence we don't. Something to consider... (Not that I'm saying we should always follow the qt vote, even though that would make this game easier.
#1063: Lalaitholysis post. No direct mention of QT outside of selected quoted material in regard to Lalaith.
#1066: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1067: there's still a nice innocent majority there (or, nice and nice, not sure dead innocents outnumbering dead baddies is a good thing ) but there's three baddies and Lhuna is the tie breaker, so if the innocents disagree with each other and mess it up, there's a chance the baddies can wrestle control of the QT vote.
This actually possibly more as a reminder to the QT than ourselves.
#1068: if we want to orchestrate some communication deal with them, or if we want to agree to vote BEFORE them, then now would be the time to discuss that.
#1089: We have the most data so far, we could coordinate something with the qt, but nothing is happening.
Statement followed by suspicion list and explanation of each selection.
#1091: I think the least we can do is to give the qt pointers about how we might want to lynch toDay, like Boro just did. Since it looks pretty quiet here, I have spent some time on the Night kill and making a list (including a quick look at yesterDay's votes while making that), I might retreat for a little while. On Monday I spent most of my waking hours playing werewolf (did I mention I'm temporarily unemployed until June 2nd? ), and to be honest, I don't have the stamina to repeat that today. So, I'll be off for a few hours at least, and I'll make a mock vote if it helps the qt
Followed by ‘fake-vote’ prior to QT vote deadline.
#1101: The whole whether to follow the QT's choice was really a whole another kettle of fish. If the QT had voted for someone I did not suspect very much, I wouldn't have followed their vote. But since they voted for someone I did suspect, it was one factor that made me pick her over my other suspects (some of whom I suspected more). I'm considering acting with the same logic toDay, by the way. It seems prudent to me to let their choice affect but not dictate your own voting.
(Ref. to Kath about Lhuna-vote)
#1102: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1112: Also it's worth bearing in mind that the qt is full of innocents who are freer to think outside the box than living innocents because 1) their time/energy is not swallowed up by having to defend themselves from accusations and 2) they can't fall into the trap of kneejerk suspicion against people who suspect them unlike we do (nor can they conversely discard their valid suspicions just because they might be kneejerk). Of course, they might also be paying less attention to the game than us living ones because understandably they have less to do. But still. I do think they have certain advantages in wolf spotting if they're willing to use them.
#1122: I would really REALLY like to know what's going on in the QT. But I should probably be careful what I wish for...
#1125: I was under the impression that the ones who join the QT are allowed to read back what has been said there before? In that case they would all know as much.
#1132: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1140: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
-POST QT Day Vote-
#1152: Mentions surprise at Rune QT vote. Plans to go back and check Rune’s posts for possible answers.
#1155: Reply to Pitch about Lhuna deciding QT vote. Sides with quite unlikely, only if innocents in QT made a mess.
#1160: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1194: Also I don't "distrust" the QT vote. I just don't think they know so much more than us that we should follow them without a question, or that their vote couldn't be tampered with by the evil side (even though that's quite unlikely). There's a difference.
(Ref. to QT Rune-vote)
#1196: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1198: How do you determine which players are "opposite" choices in a way that you can manipulate with? And why would any ordo trust a known hunter/ranger's word any more than a known fellow ordo's?
(Ref. to Ka (mine) speculation on innocents trusting gifted decisions in QT)
#1202: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it. Only analysis of Rune past posts.
#1205: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1209: Vote-post. And I'm not really convinced about lynching Rune toDay. It doesn't really help that basically the two people who I suspect the most have been the ones to jump on the QT vote.
#1218, 1228, 1230,1238: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
- No further posts Day 5 -

Brinn -
#1056: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1076: It seems the entire reasoning she voted Lhuna was because she trusted the QT vote. Okay, I don't recall her having any opinions of Lhuna beforehand. This could potentially be a wolf-on-wolf vote hiding behind the QT vote, especially if she didn't expect the bandwagon that followed.
(Ref. to analysis of Ka (me) Lhuna-vote timing)
#1119: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it. Gives ‘fake-vote(s)’.
-POST QT Day Vote-
#1154: Considering he hasn't been heavily discussed here toDay, I wonder if the QT is reading into something we're not seeing.
I'm not sure if I'm ready to follow the QT vote toDay, but I definitely think he's worth taking another look at.
(Ref. to QT Rune-vote)
#1215,1231: Vote-post. No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
- No further posts Day 5 -

Rune -
#1095: Seems quite plain to me. It is an innocent who starts to second guess her own reasoning because of external factors.
(Ref. to Lommy about Lal’s comment on previous QT Lhuna-vote)
#1096: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1098: Gives ‘fake-vote’. No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
-POST QT Day Vote-
#1163: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1179: Reply to Zil, doesn’t believe QT-vote could be correct twice, but understands why they would say such.
I expected to get a bit of attention today, but honestly I thought it would have regarding the timing of my vote yesterday (considering Lhuna turned out being an infector). Really surprised as both Legate and Lalaith to be reasonably convinced of my innocence.
(Ref. to direct quote of QT vote that Day)
#1193: Though taking recent events into consideration I would like to stress that an innocent QT thread is clearly quite capable of mistakes.
#1213: Nor do I understand why an innocent would be so eager to support the QT thread, suggesting all that doesn't are suspicious... too brasen too opportunistic for an innocent.
(Ref. to Eonwe role speculation and previous voting pattern)
#1214: Reply to Loslote’s reasoning for voting along with QT vote for Day over previous suspicions of Ka.
#1217: Vote-post. No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1224: If nothing else today has made me quite firm in my belief that Inziladun and Eönwë are two of our remaining infectors. Brinn was my third choice, but I am not sure it adds up anymore.
I get why it is compelling to want to leave your vote in the hands of known innocents, nobody likes making difficult choices, but the way it was seized upon by Eönwë and Inziladun just confirms my suspicions.
#1225, 1234: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
- No further posts Day 5 -

*Pitch – (For reference):
#1055: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1059: I'm certainly going to continue the good ground we began yesterday with the QT vote and feel I should get a tiny apology. Not a big one, but a small one, because the living and dead worked together and we did what I advocated we should have done for days.
Pitch in reply:
Considering that yesterDay was the first Day this actually made sense, it'll have to be a small one.
#1060, 1062: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1071: It's 6:3 now; Hui & Lhuna can PM behind the others' backs, and we can count on G55 to vote with whatever the wolves come up with, so yes, a concerted baddie action to derail the QT vote is not out of the question. We'll all have to see what the Cuties come up with and decide whether we're willing to trust it.
#1093, 1100: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1118: All good points.
(Ref. to Lommy’s post #1112 on helping QT vote)
#1127: Gives ‘fake-vote’. No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
-POST QT Day Vote-
#1150: Dang. How likely is it that Lhuna decided this vote?
(Ref. to QT Rune-vote)
#1157: Yes. I meant whether there was a tie and she broke it. But we can't know that.
(Ref. to Zil’s statement that Lhuna in QT would only have power to break tie)
#1171: All it would have taken is an early innocent vote for Rune, three baddies pile on that, votes are tied, Lhuna breaks it. It's possible.
But assuming the innocents voted wolf!Rune conventiently happens to work in your favour, doesn't it? Reply to Zil.
#1181: I'm not ready to vote Rune quite yet, but I could go with either of Ka or Eönwë (duly noted about Morgoth's Breath)
#1191: I'm also very suspicious of anyone trying to immediately discredit/minimize what the QT has said - obviously, the innocents don't know anything, so reasonable doubt is merited, but I don't like these two reactions
Reply to Eonwe:
I don't think it's such an outlandish reaction when they vote somebody you felt very much was innocent.
#1211: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1219: Vote-post. No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
#1239: No direct mention of QT vote or opinion on it.
- No further posts Day 5 -


I haven't checked the thread since two hours ago, so if any of this has been answered, I apologise again. On that and with a long day tomorrow, I'm going to sleep.

[Eönwë]

Back briefly. Just realised that I forgot to go back and add the newly-known innocents to my previous vote list. So here it is again, fixed:

Bold is evil, italics is good.

Day 1
Lhuna -> Lhuna
Rikae -> Brinniel
G55 -> Rikae
Boro -> Pitchwife
Urwen -> G55
Pitchwife -> Brinniel (2)
Kath -> G55 (2)
Shasta -> Pitchwife (2)
Kitanna -> Pitchwife (3)
Inzil -> G55 (3)
Lottie -> G55 (4)
Greenie -> Macalaure
THE Ka -> Brinniel (3)
Eönwë -> Urwen
Rune -> Brinniel (4)
Lommy -> G55 (5)
Huines -> G55 (6)
Legate -> Brinn (5)
Macalaure -> Brinn (6)
Brinniel -> G55 (7)
---G55 Fake Ranger Reveal---
Sally -> Brinn (7)

Reminder: while G55 is evil, because she's the Cobbler she and the Infectors didn't know who each other were at this point.



Day 2
Lommy -> Macalaure
Kath -> Inzil
Lhuna -> Lommy
Macalaure -> Lommy 2
QT -> Brinniel
Greenie -> Macalaure 2
Legate -> Huinesoron
Huinesoron -> Macalaure 3
Rune -> Loslote
Kitanna -> Huinesoron 2
THE Ka -> Loslote 2
Pitchwife -> Huinesoron 3
Loslote -> Huinesoron 4
Sally -> Macalaure 4
Inzil -> Macalaure 5
Lalaith -> Huinesoron 5
Brinn -> Huinesoron 6
Boro -> Mac 6
Eönwë -> Huinesoron 7
Shasta -> Mac


Day 3
THE Ka -> Sally
QT -> Brinn
Eönwë -> Sally 2
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Sally 3
Lommy -> Sally 4
--- Sally Hunter reveal---
Inzil -> Brinn 2
Lottie -> Sally 5
Lalaith -> Sally 6
Legate -> Sally 7
Shasta -> Sally 8
Brinn -> Sally 9
Rune -> Inzil 2
Boro -> Sally 10
Pitch -> Eonwe



Day 4
Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2
Lalaith -> Lhuna 3
Lommy -> Lhuna 4
Rune -> Eönwë 3
Kath -> Lhuna 5
Shasta -> Lhuna 6
Boro -> Eönwë 4
Brinn -> Lhuna 7



Day 5
QT -> Rune
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Inzil 2
Shasta -> THE Ka
Eönwë -> Rune 2
Boro -> Eönwë
Inzil -> Rune 3
Lommy -> Inzil 3
Lottie -> Rune 4
Brinn -> Inzil 4
Rune -> Inzil 5
Pitch -> Inzil 6
THE Ka -> Shasta

[Eönwë]

I haven't really had a chance to collect my thoughts on each person left, and given the last two Days, it looks like I probably should start reassessing everyone. So I'm skimming over my old posts in the thread to see if there's anything I've forgotten/need to follow up on now that we know more. These are the concrete thoughts I've mentioned in the thread about about reasons people looked good or bad (more than just feelings/vibes/sub-radar location) that are still relevant:




Thinlómien

Neutral: Seemed (to me on Day 1) to avoid getting too deep into the fake vote discussion.
Bad: In Day 2, it looked to me like she was attacking Boro and then backed off once it was gaining traction.
Bad Early on in Day 3, discounted the idea of wolf-on-wolf for Huin. We only know Lhuna and Huin's roles, so we'll see whether there were any in time, but in principle I didn't like this at the time.
Probably good: Her all out on the Sally quarantine (originally I thought this didn't exonerate her - and it doesn't - but it does look more good than bad).
????: She's on Hui's list of suspects. The others turned out to be innocent. Does this mean that she's the one wolf he snuck in there or just another innocent he wanted to quarantine/infect? Not sure.
??: Mentioned by Lhuna as a possible wolf.
Bad: Flimsy case against me based on Legate-seeming-like-a-seer theory.



Loslote

Too under my radar for anything apparently.



Kath

Bad: Quoting known-wolf Lhuna saying my voting was suspicious, and then saying it for herself.


A Little Green

Too under my radar for anything apparently.


Boromir88

Bad: Lots of strange/not-actually-helpful posting on Day 1
Bad: His focused Day 2 post felt like it was trying to narrow the general discussion (and made him look better by omission).
Bad: Again focused on a specific subset, and did the same thing as Lommy in avoiding talking about wolf-on-wolf. Again, we'll see in future whether this shielded anyone.
??: Mentioned by Lhuna as a possible wolf.


Brinniel

Neutral: Seemed (to me on Day 1) to avoid getting too deep into the fake vote discussion.


Rune Son of Bjarne

Bad: Admitted that he naturally suspects me, but went along with that anyway.


THE Ka

TBD: If Brinn is evil, could've engaged in some risky wolf-on-wolf on Day 1 (if she didn't think Brinn-voting was as likely as it actually was).
TBD: Expanded votes on Day 3. At the time, I was suspicious because I thought it was possible Mac was evil. Looking back, this still could be bad (but not as bad) if Lottie is good - she may have been trying to start a Lottie-waggon to prevent a Hui quarantine as Mac-suspicion was losing steam.
Bad: Potentially trying to pin me and Shasta together in suspicion.


Shastanis Althreduin
Good:

Good: His #322 looked like it was intended to minimize the Kit discussion. Though it should be noted that it could've been wolvish (and calculated to look good, and low-cost if he already was confident she was actually the ranger), but that seems less likely.
TBD: If Brinn is evil, he added added Pitch to viable alternative candidates.
Bad: Holding his Day 2 vote (when a wolf was on the line) until it didn't matter.
Bad: Potentially trying to pin me and THE Ka together in suspicion.
Possible wolf slip, followed up by 'subtly' pretending to be the seer.




Topics not included above:

The Rune-Legate discussion (See my #1075). There's a chance that Lhuna could have argued against Rune seeming innocent to leave open the possibility of throwing a packmate under the bus, but again, this needs to be looked over in more detail.



Ok, what does this tell me? I've definitely had too much tunnel-vision. I need to reassess everyone.

[Eönwë]

Ok, let's analyse the votes day-by-day:

Day 1
We can only tell anything if Brinn turns out to be evil, otherwise it's three (as far as the wolves knew at least) innocents.

If Brinn is evil, then THE Ka could theoretically be trying a kind-of-dangerous-but-not-too-dangerous wolf-on-wolf. All non-Brinn voters other than Brinn herself (Boro, Kath, Shasta, Lottie, Greenie, me, Lommy) could also theoretically be suspicious too. So if Brinn is evil, only Rune really looks good.

Summary: if Brinn is evil, Rune looks good.




Day 2

Lhuna's relatively safe vote for Lommy could be wolf-on-wolf.

Greenie's vote for Mac could've been a way to protect Lommy or Brinn if Greenie and at least one of them is evil.

If Lottie is evil, Rune and THE Ka's votes could be safe 'throwaway' wolf-on-wolf votes to come back to later. If she's good and Mac interest seemed to be waning (I seem to remember Sally's at least came suddenly), it could have been a late attempt to start a counterwaggon to Hui's

Boro's vote directly allowed for a chance to save Hui.

Lottie's Hui vote could have been semi-dangerous wolf-on-wolf, but is admittedly a bit risky.


Probably the only really suspicious vote this Day was Boro's, and to a lesser extent the Lottie-voters (Rune and THE Ka) - the rest are a lot more speculative.


Summary: Bad vote from Boro, kind-of-bad votes from Rune and THE Ka.




Day 3
Hard to tell disentangle this mess. Wolves could easily hide among Sally voters. Sally voters after the reveal (Lottie, Shasta, Brinn, Boro) are more suspicious than before (THE Ka, me, Greenie, Lommy). Rune's late vote looks kind of throwaway, and may have been planted as a way to bring back Zil suspicion in future (as a I mentioned previously, it looked like the Zil vote was semi-planned). Kath's was earlier, so it was still possible to quarantine him at that point.

Summary: Lottie, Shasta, Brinn, Boro, and Rune are a little suspicious based on this.





Day 4
Non-Lhuna voters after the QT vote are generally more suspicious: Lottie, Greenie, Rune, Boro , with Rune and Boro looking the worst of these (really trying to keep Lhuna from being quarantined). The only Lhuna-voter that could have been hiding is Brinn - that's the first Lhuna vote where her fate was already sealed.

Summary: Rune and Boro especially bad, followed by Lottie, Greenie, and Brinn.





Day 5
Hard to analyze. I'm still pretty suspicious of anyone who didn't vote Rune, but we know at least one innocent did that so (and clearly there aren't 5 wolves left), so I'll have to think about it.

[Eönwë]

Correction: in my post #1302, the seer thing was clearly meant to be Bad and go under Boro.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am not going to pretend that I understand the fine details of Boromir’s interaction with the QT thread, but I am inclined to believe his “reveal”. Personally I thought there was a chance he was the seer (i definitely had no better leads), so I decided to steer clear of him for a while and focus attention elsewhere. Reading Lommy's post I realise that there are better ways to help a potential seer. I was wondering why he kind of turned on me yesterday, as he had mostly seen me in a favorable light, but I ended up concluding that if he was the seer then he had yet to dream of me.

If he is right that QT followed his hints, then how would the known innocents have kept their trust in him a secret from the infected? Is there something I am missing?

I have briefly skimmed through the posts, and nothing much has really changed my perspective.
As I might have mentioned yesterday, I don’t think I am capable of imagining a scenario where Eönwë isn’t a wolf.

[A Little Green]

I've finally caught up on everything that happened yesterDay and toDay! From now on, if I say someone looks blatantly wolfish, please lay off them as they’re probably innocent. :rolleyes:

Overall general impressions? Lommy's reaction to Boro makes her look very innocent. (Also I can relate.) THE Ka is probably my best lead where possible wolves are concerned. I'm re-evaluating Rune, too. I need to do some further thinking re: Boro and Eonwe as both give me a headache.

So starting from yesterDay -

In response to Boro's comments. Boro had suggested a pack of Lhuna, Lottie, Inzil + one more. Greenie seems to discount Lottie from this list and I agree based on the reasons I gave previously. Boro and Greenie - what linked Lhuna and Inzil for you, given you seemed to agree on that point?
I didn't really see a link between Lhuna and Inzil at that point if I'm honest (that was before we found out Lhuna's role). Rather that I suspected both of them and didn't see them as actively incompatible with each other, either.

Greenie votes Inzil for being the most suspicious and mentioned suspicion of Lhuna and Boro. Having previously said you'd be tempted to follow the QT, Greenie, why the decision to stick to Inzil in the end? Fair question. I did seriously consider it, but in the end decided to go for Inzil because he was my top suspect at the time and I felt the argument against him was stronger. Also, a few others already had a vote by that point and none of them were people I felt very good about, so there was also an element of "que sera sera and let's see who defends whom and what falls out". Another element is probably a personality thing - I'm not good with quick changes. I might as well just stop waiting until after the QT vote since getting possible new information very shortly before I need to make my decision tends to lead to me ignoring the new information as I don't have enough time to process it properly. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure about Eönwë-Shasta but I keep seeing Greenie-Eönwë and Greenie-Shasta as things. But it's hard for me to evaluate it because I know both Shasta and Eönwë are among Greenie's best 'downs buddies so that might make them likely to lowkey team up regardless of their alignments, especially if they were innocents genuinely thinking the other one innocent too.True, I might have a bit of a blind spot where those two are concerned. I still think Shasta looks more innocent than not (especially if THE Ka does turn out to be a wolf) but I'm starting to get confused about Eonwe.

Re: Rune. If Boro is right and the Cuties only voted for Rune because they thought Boro was the Seer, the information value of the QT vote is somewhat diminished. That said, it also doesn't automatically mean that Rune is off the hook, either. I found this point by Lommy noteworthy, regardless of the actual motivation behind the QT vote:

Now that you mention it, I guess you could read me and Lhuna's exchange as Lhuna trying to look good by pointing out a flaw in my reasoning, while it didn't really work because it didn't look like a flaw to anyone who didn't know Rune is a wolf?

If Rune is a wolf, I would hazard a guess that THE Ka is too. Remember how she compared me and Lhuna's arguments (in a manner that I can't call anything but weird) and came to the conclusion that mine is better? How convenient if Rune was her packmate and she was basically saying "shh Lhuna, let the innocents faultily conclude our packmate is innocent".Particularly that first paragraph - I remember thinking that something in Lhuna argument against Lommy's conclusion about Rune seemed off, and couldn't really put a finger on it. I think this is a possibility. And speaking of Lommy's theory of Rune and Ka being fellows, Ka's reaction to yesterDay's QT vote isn't exactly reassuring. It's just noncommittal enough as not to come across as a defence of Rune, while sowing further doubt about whether we should trust the QT pick:

As for the QT vote... not expecting that and I don't really see why Rune.

Also on Rune, this gave me pause as well:

But re: Eönwë and Lhuna, I find it rather interesting that on Day1 he said:
Just so you know I am biased (or blind) in some ways. I naturally suspect Loslote and Eonwe, I believe it has always been thus. I always want to believe the best of Lhuna, I know it has always been thus.
Is he really a self-fulfilling prophecy, or was this him laying grounds for trusting fellow!Lhuna and going for innocent!Eönwë (and possibly innocent!Lottie) later in the game?This is also possible - actually it reminds me of Lommy and Huin's conversation on D1 about how doing "what you always do" is a natural cover for a wolf.

And that's all I've got from yesterDay. I picked out quite a bit to comment on from toDay as well, but that'll have to wait - I'm currently on sick leave because I can't sit in front of the computer for longer than about 15 minutes at a time so this post took a few hours to write. I'll come back and continue in a while!

[Boromir88]

DID EÖNWË AGAIN SLIP HE KNOWS BRINN IS INNOCENT?

(or has he given up and is fabricating wolf slips to make packmate Brinn look good at this point??)


edit: xed, okay I see not. Yeah I need to sleep.

Maybe we're all a little bit rusty. It's at least provided The Nogmod with an epic game...as we all continue tearing our hair out.

I will say the stand out day was really Day 4 with Lhuna's lynched.

Day 1 Chaos DL, cobbler lynched

Day 2 chaos DL, wolf lynched

Day 3, chaos hunter, sally lynched

Day 4 was the stand out...it was our most orderly and organized lynch. That was also the first day the QT was in control of the innocents. It suggests, that perhaps the wolves did decide to bus Lhuna, because it had such a completely different feel than Huey's lynch.

[Boromir88]

Oh and I must be away for several hours...slowly reopening is killing my mood of staying home for the last 2 months.

+-THE Ka

I'm torn with Eonwe's blood thirst in this game. It seems like he can be convinced to lynch half the village. At the same time he was the one I was really sending "dreamed wolf" of clues on and if he was I would have expected my plan to work.

So, I'll go with other option today, because of how orderly Lhuna's lynch was and when I read Ka's reasons for voting Lhuna it boiled down to "because the QT said so" but she didn't add any further suspicions to Lhuna.

[Thinlómien]

I gotta admit Boro's non-reveal sort of triggered a werewolf fatigue in me, I hate to be back to square one again. But I will try. ToDay and toMorrow are crucial Days, and I hope our brave seer is dabbling in maths as well as clairvoyance. But as long as they are in hiding, we have to use our little gray cells.

I am a bit reluctant to start untangling the whole Boro-Eönwë-Brinn mess, because frankly it makes me a little uncomfortable. I am really tempted to ignore deeper implications of recent events and go with my general feeling of Boro and Brinn being innocent and Eönwë being guilty, but I'm not sure this is a wise course of action.

The rest of the village? I still think Lottie is innocent, Greenie seems pretty good to me too, and I am a bit hesitant to jump on the Rune suspicion because I don't have much good reasons to suspect him and it sort of looks too easy? Meaning, (if Boro is right which it looks like he is), the whole Rune suspicion arose because he signaled the QT about him and they responded because they trusted him, not because they distrusted Rune. Granted, we have maybe collectively been giving Rune too much of a pass, but the new wave of suspicion is on really flimsy grounds. Lots of room for brain farts here.

Kath and Shasta? Neither of them looks super guilty to me, but neither do they look super innocent. I guess that if my innocent list in the above paragraph is correct, then it's very likely one of them is a wolf. Which one? Who knows.

THE Ka I think a very likely wolf because like I keep saying, her "disconnected" playing style strikes me as fishy, and so are her connections to the dead wolves. Like there is nothing glaringly obvious all in all, but it's more like a process of elimination. We still have three wolves left and I have hard time imagining a scenario where Ka is NOT one of them.

Therefore as it stands I would vote +-THE Ka

Also my suggestion for the QTs for toDay: ignore Boro :rolleyes::rolleyes: and just vote whoever you think is suspicious. I think we need a little help here.


PS. I have skimmed through/ quickly read the discussion that happened while I was gone. I will likely get back to it at some point toDay but now it's a whole lot of EURGH I CAN'T DEAL WITH THIS for me. (Yes I still want to smack Boro a little, but I guess I will forgive him if he's innocent. If he's not then :mad: )

[Kath]

What is with this village and Gifted's? Fake reveals, real reveals, reveals of fake-ness. I'm not sure I understand even half of what Boro is claiming to have been doing with his Seer act. You suggested Rune because you didn't think he was suspicious and just wanted to see whether the QT would follow your lead? And then the wolves would think you were the Seer because if Rune was a wolf, they'd think you'd spotted him, and if Rune wasn't a wolf ... what, you'd just not dreamed of him then? But the wolves didn't go after you, so Pitch must have looked more Seer-ish. That said, I've read through Lommy's Pitch-alysis and I have to largely agree. There didn't seem to be much there that would indicate him being a Gifted and seemingly being vital for them to kill.

And now Rune is in the midst of all this. I want to see if Boro is actually right that no one else really put him up as a candidate prior to the QT vote yesterDay, and therefore the QT must have been following his ideas. I feel like the last time I really saw Rune properly discussed before all this was in the context of Legate possibly having been killed for Seer-ish vibes, but I'd ended up feeling quite good about him as a result of that, so I need to go back and look at it.

Also, I don't understand this:
Regardless of whether Boro is telling the truth or not, I think it's likely the QT'ed innocents believed him to be the Seer. We could test that theory with having them follow Boro's vote again today, if we thought it mattered.
I thought that the QT could read the game thread. So wouldn't they now know that Boro is saying he isn't the Seer and so wouldn't follow his vote?

[A Little Green]

Trying to unpick Boro.

So first off – I only made one note yesterDay while reading the thread. This is what it says:

Boro Seer-hinting/slipping (note to self: if Boro still alive but not revealing toMorrow, have a closer look)

:rolleyes:

My immediate reaction to his non-reveal (I love that word btw) was that he’s innocent. I still think that’s the more likely scenario, but I also don’t think I can afford to trust anyone, especially someone like Boro who could totally pull a stunt like this whatever his role, and especially given my impressive track record of being wrong in this game so far. So. Starting point: I think whatever his role, Boro is probably telling the truth about pretending to be the Seer, doing some testing and realising the QT think so too. But beyond this –

Scenario 1 – Boro is innocent.

This does look exactly like something a Borordo would do. But as noted above, it’s pretty curious that he’s still alive. We’re getting to a point where the wolves really, really have no option but the gun for the Seer, so even if the wolves were inclined to think he was bluffing, it would be really bold of them not to eliminate him just to be safe. So if he isn’t a wolf himself, the only other feasible explanation (in my head at least) is that he was so blatantly wrong in his hints about someone that the wolves knew he wasn’t the Seer. So for example if Lommy is a wolf, they would know Boro wasn’t the real Seer. Likewise if Eonwe is innocent.

Scenario 2 – Boro is a wolf.

Possible, if with some reservations. The starting point – pretending to be the Seer, gaining the trust of the QT, and rolling with it – would definitely be a possibility even if Boro is a wolf. Lommy mentioned phantom-esque double bluff ploys, and I actually don’t have a problem imagining Boro pulling off something like that. That said, there are a few issues with this theory.

Most obviously, why would he come out now instead of pressing his advantage and continuing to manipulate the QT? My immediate thought would be that a Borolf would keep going with the charade as long as we let him, then come out with an actual reveal if he started being suspected and try to draw the real Seer out in the process.

Possibly he thought he’d come under fire about not being Night-killed, and wanted to avoid it getting that far – especially if this implicated a fellow. Coming out like this does make him look pretty innocent, and as long as we don’t lynch him, we won’t get anything definite about the fellow he was trying to protect, either. Additionally, following up on Lottie’s point about how Eonwe challenging Boro toDay looks like an attempt to distract from himself – if they are fellows, this would be a masterstroke. All we’re doing is talking about Boro, and most people seem inclined to believe him – and his innocence would also make Eonwe appear innocent. Meanwhile, they are sufficiently suspicious of each other so this doesn’t look too buddy-buddy.

--

I still think scenario 1 is more likely, but I managed to make scenario 2 sound like such an awesome stroke of evil genius that I’ll be almost disappointed if it’s not true :D Regardless, I’d be tempted to draw a simplistic conclusion that Boro and Eonwe are on the same side. That is, either they’re both innocent or both guilty. I’m leaning towards both innocent at the moment, but reserve the right to change my mind.

[Thinlómien]

It is true that it's hard to see why Borowolf wouldn't follow through and reveal as the seer.

Think about it.

He has laid the perfect grounds for it for Days, he has plenty of material to point to in order to back up his claim. He has been making loud enough seer hints that he could hope a few innocents would be partial to his reveal on the spot.

Especially if he revealed before the actual seer came forth? I think he might be initially believed far more than the real seer.

Wait I'm thinking and maybe I'll do a legate180 --

What if Borowolf was setting himself up for a fake seer reveal the whole time?? And then toDay, he chickened out for some reason, and decided to claim he's an ordo trying to fake to be the seer?

Maybe because if he made his seer claim toDay and there was a counter claim from the real seer, even if we believed him and lynched the real seer, we could bag a wolf toMorrow by lynching him.

While maybe he figured that he can't wait until toMorrow to make the claim after his parting post yesterDay which was going to look fishy otherwise.

I mean, it is important for the wolves that we lynch an innocent both toDay and toMorrow. Then they win. If we lynch a wolf on one of those Days, the game continues still. A fake seer reveal might start looking like a worse choice than just crossing their fingers that the actual seer hasn't dreamt of any wolves?

[Thinlómien]

Hmm. On the other hand, if Boro and Eönwë were both wolves, don't you think Boro would be pressing the "my not-death proves I was wrong about Eönwë" angle a little harder toDay?

Also if "suspecting Eönwë" is the question on which Boro's lack of getting Night killed supposedly hinges on, then why is the one who actually died Pitchwife who *dramatic drumroll* suspected Eönwë??

And why is virtually nobody talking about the fact that Boro "not getting killed" could be just as well about being wrong about his supposed "known innocents" ie me and Brinn? Why is Boro not second guessing his trust in us if he's innocent?

I think the only thing I'm certain of is that there is no way in hell that all of Boro, Eönwë and Brinn are innocent. But that's not very much to go on.

[A Little Green]

And why is virtually nobody talking about the fact that Boro "not getting killed" could be just as well about being wrong about his supposed "known innocents" ie me and Brinn? Why is Boro not second guessing his trust in us if he's innocent?Why is my own sister calling me "virtually nobody"? Rude. :p

[A Little Green]

While we're tossing ideas around -

What's going on with Brinn? She's still playing pretty safe and uncontroversial. The best arguments for her innocence (as far as I can tell) have to do with her role in the Huin lynch; she voted for Lhuna, too, but only after she was already a goner so this doesn't give us much. The other argument for Brinn's innocence is how evil QT voted for her twice and then good QT laid off her. Though if good QT's choices have been informed by fake-Seer Boro, the likely reason they dropped her is because they saw the "Seer" hinting at her innocence, not because they'd have some evidence about her innocence that we don't (ie. dead Huinwolf's posts). The only thing we can get out of the QT turning away from voting Brinn is that if she is indeed Huin's fellow and the early QT votes for her an effort to make her look better, he at least managed this without slipping about her role in the QT.

[A Little Green]

If he is right that QT followed his hints, then how would the known innocents have kept their trust in him a secret from the infected? Is there something I am missing?I don't know if they'd have needed to. As soon as they're the ones controlling the vote, they could discuss potential Seers completely openly. The only risk is that if the QT later becomes evil-dominated, the bad guys could then try to signal to their living fellows re: the identity of a potential Seer. This seems pretty hypothetical to me though, as any "Seer" hinting directly enough for the QT to notice would probably have been noticed by the living wolves already anyway.

[Loslote]

A list, simplified:

Could be a wolf:
Ka
Eonwe
Brinn
Shasta

Probably not a wolf:
Boro
Rune

Probably innocent:
Lottie
Lommy
Greenie
Kath

Now, this is bold, and I am fully willing to admit that I could be wrong to put some of the players that I did in the probably innocent category - but I feel very confident that our three wolves are among the four players in the could be a wolf category. I'll also add that I don't suspect Shasta, I just think that he's the person I'm most possibly wrong about, and so if I'm wrong about any of my three main suspects, he's the person I would then look at. I would be willing to vote for any of Ka, Eonwe, or Brinn today, but for the Cuties:

+- Ka

[Brinniel]

I'm not sure what to make of this whole Boro mess. It's proved to be quite the distraction so far toDay, which could be brilliant if he's a wolf. On the other hand, I agree with his reasoning for suspecting Ka. And I like Greenie's "unpicking Boro" post. Her analysis seems genuine and find myself agreeing with her conclusions, particularly with the possibility that both Boro and Eonwe are innocent.

So my suspects for toDay:
Ka - similar reasons that Boro stated and also for the reasons I mentioned yesterDay
Kath - now that I know Inzil was innocent, I find her more suspicious for voting multiple Days on someone who was universally suspected. Her vote for Lhuna could've been wolf-on-wolf; if she had tried to save her at that point, it would've looked fishy indeed.
Rune - to a lesser extent. His voting record and suspicions don't look terribly innocent, but I'm not completely sold that he's a wolf.

I don't like how quiet it is right now. Unfortunately, I have a business meeting scheduled for the last two hours of the Day, so at maximum, I might be able to slip in a vote, but you'll see little else from me.

For now, my vote would go to +-Ka.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

#1179: Reply to Zil, doesn’t believe QT-vote could be correct twice, but understands why they would say such.

Excuse me for being pedantic. It is not a question of "belief", I know if the QT-vote was correct twice in a row or not (it wasn't). The real question is if you believe me or not.

Anyways for reasons previously stated.

+- Eönwë

I might cast an early vote today, as I am not certain I can be around for deadline.

[Loslote]

I'm not sure what to make of this whole Boro mess. It's proved to be quite the distraction so far toDay, which could be brilliant if he's a wolf. On the other hand, I agree with his reasoning for suspecting Ka. And I like Greenie's "unpicking Boro" post. Her analysis seems genuine and find myself agreeing with her conclusions, particularly with the possibility that both Boro and Eonwe are innocent.

So my suspects for toDay:
Ka - similar reasons that Boro stated and also for the reasons I mentioned yesterDay
Kath - now that I know Inzil was innocent, I find her more suspicious for voting multiple Days on someone who was universally suspected. Her vote for Lhuna could've been wolf-on-wolf; if she had tried to save her at that point, it would've looked fishy indeed.
Rune - to a lesser extent. His voting record and suspicions don't look terribly innocent, but I'm not completely sold that he's a wolf.

You really have nothing to say about Eonwe beyond agreeing with Greenie and therefore lumping him and Boro together? I personally don't understand her argument that they're on the same side at all. Like, I don't understand what the argument is. What I see is, Eonwe came out swinging, very like a wolf who decided not to kill him and to instead try to argue that his fake reveal was suspicious, and who was surprised to find that the village wasn't super interested in suspecting Boro when he assumed they would be. Eonwe already tied the two of you together by trying to say that you looked innocent like Lommy - now you're saying he looks innocent like Boro? Looks a lot like two packmates to me.

[Kath]

Pitch then. Going with the assumption the wolves thought he was the Seer, so I'm reading with that mindset.

Day 1

Let's see: village of 22, five of which are infectors. One out of four. Every fourth person. Starting from the top, and excluding myself, that's Lottie, Zil, Urwen (), Mac and Sally. There, case closed
Well unless Lottie is a wolf and she's been worrying about this for five Days, I think this seems an unlikely source for a Seer hint.

Got involved in the fake votes discussion and viewed Legate as the leader of it, which made him ping. Then later finds G55's interpretation of events suspicious. It looks like he hadn't dreamed of Legate or G55 at this point then as the G55 suspicion came later.

Mac, really? You find it odd how I pinned the no-vote stuff on Legate, when earlier you yourself found it just as odd how enthusiastic he was about it? Now that I find odd! *ping*
So he hadn't dreamed of Mac, either.

Makes a sort of list post about the village but seems non-committal on everyone.

I'd actually be surprised if there isn't at least one wolf among Rikae, Brinn, Kitanna and Lottie. The later on the Pitchwagon, the likelier.

G55 is all over the place, fairly confrontational, sometimes eyebrow-raising (about Urwen/Maeglin: really?). Her all-out attack on Rikae just now does sound a lot like passionate innocent though and makes me feel better about her.
Paradoxically, so does Rikae's response so far.
Well so he definitely hadn't dreamed of Rikae or Kitanna. Further suspicion of Brinn afterwards.

Votes Brinn. Thinks Eonwe and Greenie made throwaway votes.

I mean, none of his suspicions seem anything but motivated by what he's seen in the game thread. At a push, Lottie for mentioning her twice in possible wolf lists. But it's so banter driven in the first instance and reactionary to being suspected in the second that I can't really see that being the case. Also, he flip flops on her in the next two Days, so I don't think that makes sense.

Day 2
Suggests Rikae's death implicates Brinn but then says that's maybe too obvious. Doesn't look like a dream.

Questions Hui's interpretation of his words and pings Inzil.

Speaks against Hui again. Doesn't look like he's dreamed Mac here as he's still unsure about him.

Gets drawn into the Kit discussion.

Looks at Inzil after pinging him and doesn't draw much in the way of conclusions, so seems like he didn't dream him.

Looks at Greenie and seems to find her overall innocent. A Greenie-wolf could use this as cover. If Pitch was the Seer, she looks good.

Some suspicion of Legate so hadn't dreamed him.

Said he'd vote Mac or Inzil so hadn't dreamed them.

I could still vote Zil, or I could actually get behind Legate's Hui vote. A few of Hui's posts look like subtly sewing suspicion while not getting too involved in anything.
Third time he's brought up Hui. Then goes for the vote and ties Hui with Mac, making the lynch more likely to happen.

Ok, I can maybe see the wolves wondering about Pitch having dreamed of Hui here, and then going for it once there was enough support to push for the lynch.

Day 3
Right. And may I say that Eönwë voting Hui because 'with the vote count as it is it's going to have to be this way', after he'd earlier listed Hui as 'fine for now', is as good a candidate for this as any.
This is his first post, so pushing for Eonwe early on. And he sticks with this suspicion. Eon-wolf pack concerned that he got Hui the Day before and now him too, or wolves thinking even if Pitch isn't the Seer this is a big push at an innocent Eonwe.

Could well be. There were a few exchanges between Hui and Greenie where it looked like he was taking guidance from her, so them being packmates doesn't seem unplausible.
It doesn't look like he'd dreamed of Hui and Greenie as both those names came up on Day 2.

Seems to flip flop on Brinn so an unlikely dream. Still suspicious of Inzil so didn't dream him.

I find it hard to reconcile Lottie's backing off of Mac and adding a fourth wheel to the Huiwagon with wolvishness. Also, would Hui have soft-suspected two of his packmates explicitly in connection with each other? I don't think so. I'm still leaning more towards Zil.
Right, so flipflopping on Lottie suggests not a dream.

Eönwë and to a lesser degree Greenie. Not sure about the others.
Hmm, I think that makes Greenie a less likely dream. If he'd dreamed her and Eonwe and found them both wolves then that 'lesser degree' bit wouldn't be there. And obviously if he'd dreamed her innocent she wouldn't be there at all.

Ends up voting Eonwe even amidst all the sally madness.

Day 4
It really sucks to loose Legate - maybe the only player I felt I could trust (although I felt pretty good about Mac too yesterDay).
Possible dream of Legate.

Still pinging Greenie but votes Eonwe - so very consistent with this.

Day 5
Focuses in on Boro, then backs off. Unlikely dream. (With Pitch=Seer hat off, also looks like Pitch did buy the hints Boro was putting out as he does back off.)

Full disclosure: Eönwë, Shasta and Greenie hinge on each other in my mind to some degree.
But was still unsure over Greenie in that post so I still think an unlikely dream.

Pre-votes Eonwe and Inzil.

I'm not ready to vote Rune quite yet, but I could go with either of Ka or Eönwë (duly noted about Morgoth's Breath).

I don't think it's such an outlandish reaction when they vote somebody you felt very much was innocent.
I'd say he hadn't dreamed Rune as he was nearly swayed by Lommy's counter argument at one point so didn't seem to have a real definite on him.

I know I've been banging on about the wolves must be going after people they think are the Seer, but I have to admit that I'm scratching my head a bit with this one. Eonwe is the big take away from it, and it could be the wolves thinking Pitch had pegged Hui and now also Eonwe, and wanted to kill him before he could catch any more of them even if that means Eonwe goes down with him. That's quite a fatalistic attitude though.

[Kath]

As to suspicion of Rune over the Days:

Rune Son of Bjarne - Interesting to hear him admit that he usually suspects me without much cause; that might partially explain why I usually suspect him, and this game is no different. Probably not enough to vote for him though. At least do far.
There is no further mention of Rune by Eonwe on Day 1 and he ends up voting Urwen.

Day 2
Lottie looks at people who voted for Brinn late on and considers Rune being a possible wolf who voted for a Brinn packmate.

Rune: In post #117, he's most worried about G55 for her fake vote idea then turning it back on Legate. For post #134, he says he's likely to vote Eonwe for being non-committal or Kit for her reaction to Lhuna. #221, he acknowledges there's a building case against me and then agrees with it. He states he'd prefer to vote Eonwe, but votes for me because I'm the better lynch option over G55.

Impression: I don't really agree with his reasons for suspecting Eonwe and Kit - they seem weak. As for his suspicion of me, there's nothing unusual in itself about Rune suspecting me...he always does. But the way he piggybacks on the case against me is suspicious. Plus, what happened to his concerns about G55? They seem to have disappeared unless I'm missing something.

Day 3

Rune - I get a bad feeling from him, but that could be in part because he suspects me. I don't like that he essentially tried to start up a new bandwagon in the middle of the Huinwagon taking off, but that could again be an innocent who just didn't really suspect either candidate. Definitely keeping my eye on him.

Rune Son of Bjarne - Just a feeling at the moment; I need to reread his posts.

I find Rune's suspicions of Lottie to be flimsy partly because of his overreaction to that post and partly because in his description for her he finds her posts 50% reasonable, which is a bit noncommittal. I also see his vote as a bit of a throwaway; sure it was early enough to go any way, but at that time a Lottie lynch did not seem very likely. I am not as suspicious of Rune as I am of others, but I am wary of him.

Seems to be the same three people with suspicion of Rune. Most other people had him as an unsure or leaning innocent.

Day 4

Rune
Last mention of Zil on Day 2, he was in his neutral zone, and his suspects were Brinn, Lottie, and Eonwe. YesterDay, he said his quick read-through had not yielded any new suspicions. Afterwards he asked to confirm if his understanding of why Zil and sally were being suspected is accurate, which Legate did. Next thing we see, he could vote for Zil as well as his three suspects without feeling too bad about it. So while his not voting for sally is consistent with his stand on her reveal, his choice of vote seems oddly out of the blue.

I'm still suspicious of Lalaith and Rune, and I suspect that at that there is at least one Infector in that pair.
So Lhuna suddenly comes swinging for Rune, who otherwise isn't much mentioned. It would seem an odd wolf on wolf move when it was really quite out of the blue.

Day 5

Later in the Day there's a specific discussion on the topic involving Rune - Lommy seems to think that if the Infectors thought Legate was the seer this makes Rune seem good, Brinn agrees, Lhuna disagrees, they get into a debate, and THE Ka joins on the side of Lommy. I wonder about this because I actually found myself agreeing with Lhuna while reading this, but clearly she was evil. And thinking about it some more I think I agree with Lommy. Also, since this was before the QT vote for Lhuna, there was no reason for anyone to distance themselves from her, so we have to assume the responses are genuine, or at least not tainted by the fact that Lhuna was a possible quarantine-candidate. One thing I wonder whether it would occur to an innocent to look through Legate's suspicions in such a way, but then again, I haven't played in a long while... In any case, I think the discussion there feels a little bit like there may be some re-hashing of the previous Night's discussion, so I'm a bit wary of Lommy, THE Ka, Brinn. And given that this is an indirect way of defending or not defending Rune, this could go either way for him - either he's being soft-suspected by a fellow (Lhuna) or put brought back to the table (i.e. returned to being a possible vote). Either is plausible. Addendum after reading (#1053 - whoa, over 1000 posts?!): looks like Lommy still supports this reading.
I'm a little confused on this one, because it's the first time Eonwe really gives his full explanation for suspecting Rune, and it mostly seems to be based around Lhuna, but that hadn't I don't think been the basis of the suspicion until now. Also, did Lommy support this reading? I got the opposite impression from her posts and thought she'd ended up feeling Rune was innocent. Lottie also drops suspicion of Rune and I'm sure that was in relation to Lommy too.

Rune >>> Eonwe

At this point Lhuna was at 4, Eonwe 3. However, Rune and Lommy (for Lhuna) voted at the same time. So when making his vote the count was Lhuna 3/ Eonwe 2. Suspicious, looks like an attempt to save Lhuna.
Boro then brings Rune into the mix with his ... whatever he was doing.

Shasta doesn't like Rune flip flopping saying Lommy is suspicious and then saying he wouldn't vote for her.

The QT vote for Rune.

Votes:
Day 5
QT -> Rune
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Inzil 2
Shasta -> THE Ka
Eönwë -> Rune 2
Boro -> Eönwë
Inzil -> Rune 3
Lommy -> Inzil 3
Lottie -> Rune 4
Brinn -> Inzil 4
Rune -> Inzil 5
Pitch -> Inzil 6
THE Ka -> Shasta

[Brinniel]

What I see is, Eonwe came out swinging, very like a wolf who decided not to kill him and to instead try to argue that his fake reveal was suspicious, and who was surprised to find that the village wasn't super interested in suspecting Boro when he assumed they would be.
I guess that's where we differ in opinion. I find Eonwe's reaction to doubt Boro's innocence more natural because how I initially felt too. I mean - how are the innocents supposed to know for sure that he's telling the truth? Meanwhile, I think your immediate conclusion to find Boro innocent is less genuine - of course, a wolf would know if Boro's innocent.

[A Little Green]

You really have nothing to say about Eonwe beyond agreeing with Greenie and therefore lumping him and Boro together? I personally don't understand her argument that they're on the same side at all. Like, I don't understand what the argument is. What I see is, Eonwe came out swinging, very like a wolf who decided not to kill him and to instead try to argue that his fake reveal was suspicious, and who was surprised to find that the village wasn't super interested in suspecting Boro when he assumed they would be. Eonwe already tied the two of you together by trying to say that you looked innocent like Lommy - now you're saying he looks innocent like Boro? Looks a lot like two packmates to me.
I'm not sure what to make of Brinn at this stage - I'm somewhat worried about how she's floating by without committing to anything that could become controversial, and I've reached a point where I get nervous if someone agrees with me because what if they're a wolf seeking brownie points. :rolleyes: But regardless of what Brinn is, I think the argument for Boro and Eonwe being on the same side does make sense. As in -

The wolves are bound to be pretty desperately looking for the Seer at this stage, and if half the village noticed Boro's hints, they're bound to have done. Nobody's been able to find anything that looks half that "Seerish" in Pitchwife's posts. Sure, the wolves could have guessed Boro was bluffing; but would they really be willing to take the risk and leave him alive? So far, this pack's Night kills have looked rather safe and cautious than bold. So to me, the only logical reasons for them not to kill Boro are either

1) he was far enough off in one of his "dreams" that the wolves knew he wasn't the real Seer, or
2) he's one of them.

As for the Eonwe connection - if it's option 1), this would mean either that Lommy and/or Brinn are wolves, and/or that Eonwe is innocent. More specifically, the Pitchwife kill doesn't make sense if they're going for the Seer, Eonwe is a wolf and Boro isn't; both Pitch and Boro suspected Eonwe, and I can't see how Pitch could have looked more Seer-ish to them than Boro. So I'd say if the wolves are gunning for the Seer and Boro isn't one of them, then Eonwe likely isn't, either. Make sense?

If it's option 2), meanwhile, the above would explain why he's coming out now instead of letting it play out and fake-revealing at a later point. If we believe Boro's claim, then Eonwe being a likely innocent is a fairly logical conclusion. Eonwe was under a lot of fire yesterDay and quite a bit toDay, too. Something like this could be the only thing keeping both him and Boro alive and distracting the village for the 2 (!!!) days they'd need in order to win.

(I've just had a horrible thought. What if we have a pack of Boro/Eonwe/Kath? We wouldn't know what hit us.)

All this aside, I do think it's more likely that Boro is innocent. But I also stand by my conclusion that this means Eonwe likely is, too.

[THE Ka]

This seems pretty hypothetical to me though, as any "Seer" hinting directly enough for the QT to notice would probably have been noticed by the living wolves already anyway.

Coupled with a reminder ala Pitch's memory, not only do the ordos in QT not know anymore than we do, but the wolves in QT can only PM each other, not wolves alive in the GT at Night. QT wolves would be just as interested in 'seer' hints. If the fake seer is an ordo haphazardly trying to create cover and they accidentally single out an innocent, they might sit back and let QT ordos go for it first since neither the Ranger nor Hunter know who the actual Seer is anyways.
Living wolves in the GT would be more interested in who looks frustrated or generally upset over the fake seer as these could be signs of the actual Seer telling them to quit without too much reveal. This does require that living wolves in the GT do identify that the fake seer is indeed not real though, otherwise at least for a few Days, the fake-seer if successful at somehow influencing the QT vote could divide their attentions and expose them to players.
It could also be a reason why Pitch was selected the previous Night by the remaining wolves or Lal before.

It is not a question of "belief", I know if the QT-vote was correct twice in a row or not (it wasn't). The real question is if you believe me or not.

Could lightning strike two Days in a row? There are some sharp people over there, no question. It isn't the way I would have voted toDay, but then I seem to recall saying that yesterDay....

You know it doesn't.

But I get why you would say that.

Considering that I have the majority of the time disregarded by voting on my own collected information or disagreed more openly with the QT votes for you, that should be the answer that I really don't believe you to be a wolf over a few Days now. If anything, I believe wolves have been using you as too convenient a cover or distraction and if the QT does that for them, all the better to buy them time for their main target. The success rate of the QT really doesn't attest to its infallibility and I've said that for Days now. So, I end up playing in my own corner and it makes me look suspicious.

The question is now since I am heavily suspected, by saying that I really do believe you to be innocent, does it matter to everyone else who follows the QT anyways?

Zil turned out to be innocent and by not going with the QT vote yesterDay, players feel a little cheated like they've missed out on possibly getting a wolf with either of us.

[Boromir88]

So to me, the only logical reasons for them not to kill Boro are either

1) he was far enough off in one of his "dreams" that the wolves knew he wasn't the real Seer, or
2) he's one of them.


And

1a) After not falling for it. Granted I only tried to for like 2 days, once it turned out Lhuna was a wolf. I said what the heck, go for it and lay it on thick.

But wasn't convincing so now I'm probably being kept as an easy lynch. Can't deny no one really trusted me, except for the QT for 1.5 days. If they didn't fall for it, the pattern seems to be kill the people who look obviously innocent/difficult to lynch.

Eonwe and myself are the new Zil and Mac. At least that's what my thoughts are now. With my luck the QT innocents will now vote for me, because I ruined their trust and they're probably ****ed off. I still will tell them though, no rash decisions, I did all that I could to try to let the QT know I wasn't the seer. I thought it would send a good enough signal if they saw no purpose to what I was proposing and figured I'd be dead by now anyway.

[Thinlómien]

Hmmm. I reread Boro's non-reveal. I think I have been thinking him the seer for longer than he has pretended to be one, so perhaps I should blame mostly myself... I thought it explained not only some of his cryptic comments, but also why he gave me both unusual and innocent vibes, why he chose to act so weird on Day1, and why he's been so adamant about my innocence when basically everyone else has questioned it (and perhaps why he did such a legate180 about Brinn). I think his reveal sounds fairly innocent (why would a wolf do any of this? or admit it?), but I would like to ask him more than ever give his updated, honest opinion of everyone - but in particular Eönwë, Brinn and myself.

I find it more likely that if anything, your fake-seeriness was an attempt to catch the real seer, which is why the two people who challenged you on it, Lalaith and Pitch, are dead. I think this line of thought has some merit. I don't want to get super deep into this on theoretical or practical level because it could endanger the real seer, but in short: perhaps this is what could have drawn the wolves' attention to Lalaith and Pitch (possibly though even if Boro wasn't one of them). But that surely couldn't have been the wolves only reason to kill Lalaith and Pitch - in combination with having some seerish skepticism, they must have got some of their trusted villagers and/or top suspects right. Which, ironically, brings me back to Eönwë, whom they both suspected heavily.

Eönwë also reminds us of this slip of Boro's and it was enough to give me a pause:
I would say most of our days have gone far too narrow. We put ourselves into pretty much just 2 options. Day 1 was G55 and Brinn. Day 2 Mac and Huey, Yesterday Inzil and sally. Today Lommy and Inzil.

I don't know a whole lot about the advocates for it, but I think we need a day where there's a lot more spread. Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.Like, fair enough if he was pretending to have dreamt of innocent me and Brinn. But how did he know Inzil was innocent?

But as Lottie points out, Eönwë makes basically the same slip here:
I still think his potential slip the previous Day (where it looked like he knew the identity of two innocents - now proven to be true) would be enough to make me want to make sure if I were a wolf.
By which I mean Zil was proven to be true. The jury is still out on Brinn and maybe Lommy (depending on how you read the post). I'm very confused all in all but - Eönwë, what post do you refer to? Why is the jury only "maybe" out on me?

Seriously this game is giving me a massive headache.

But also, it feels like you came out here toDay on a crusade to convince us that Boro's Seer hints plus the wolves not killing him means he's definitely a wolf. Which feels like the wolves decided he wasn't the Seer, and decided to go after him instead - which would be especially important if the wolves needed a big distraction to take the heat off of them.This makes quite a lot of sense to me actually, but I'm also aware it's very much what I'd like to believe, so maybe I'm biased. Oh how easy this would be if the pack was Eönwë-Brinn-Ka and I could be right about some things for once and have a little break. It would be a simple explanation, and even in werewolf those are maybe a little more often correct than the über complicated ones.

But if it was a slip, which two would I be talking about? Because there are three people that are implied innocent by this - you, Zil, and Brinn. Zil has been confirmed. Are you saying you only slipped two of us are innocent because you know one of us is not? Gotcha. :p *Brinn-Eönwë-conspiracy intensifying*

Whether or not the Zil-lynch yesterDay was orchestrated by the wolves (will need to look into who got it to happen), what was shown is that the village can be pushed to ignore the innocent QT's vote. This is bad.What?! Are you saying the village has to lynch by default whoever the qt suggests?? That doesn't make any sense. As we have discussed ad nauseam, they might be a little more enlightened than we are but they are not infallible. (Certainly, if you look how they followed Boro. :p)

I feel like needing to hide from Lommy for a moment.Good thinking. :smokin:

In the end seer is still alive, so maybe it didn't work as I had intended, but to some extent it did....what? This sounds like your aim was to get the seer killed?

Why is my own sister calling me "virtually nobody"? Rude. *blowing kisses in your direction*

I still don't suspect Lottie really (unless maybe if Boro turns out to be a wolf??) but her list made me raise about five eyebrows. What's the difference between "probably innocent" and "probably not a wolf"?? Like is there a middle ground? Also why on earth would you list yourself as "probably innocent"? Shouldn't you be more sure about that????

I'm a little confused on this one, because it's the first time Eonwe really gives his full explanation for suspecting Rune, and it mostly seems to be based around Lhuna, but that hadn't I don't think been the basis of the suspicion until now. Also, did Lommy support this reading? I got the opposite impression from her posts and thought she'd ended up feeling Rune was innocent. Lottie also drops suspicion of Rune and I'm sure that was in relation to Lommy too.Yes, I still think Legate's continued trust in Rune's innocence would have stood out to the wolves if they were reading through his posts, wondering if he was the seer. Maybe Rune is one of them and they thought Legate looked like the seer regardless. But I think it's more likely a wolf pack not involving Rune thought Legate was a seer that had dreamt of innocent Rune.

The wolves are bound to be pretty desperately looking for the Seer at this stage, and if half the village noticed Boro's hints, they're bound to have done. I have been considering, what if not. What if our remaining wolves really are those who have not claimed to have noticed anything going on with Boro in the past, and have been baffled by his reveal toDay? Namely Brinn and Kath and presumably then either Ka or Shasta. That would be the funniest plot twist of all (and perhaps what Boro would deserve.)

As for the Eonwe connection - if it's option 1), this would mean either that Lommy and/or Brinn are wolves, and/or that Eonwe is innocent. More specifically, the Pitchwife kill doesn't make sense if they're going for the Seer, Eonwe is a wolf and Boro isn't; both Pitch and Boro suspected Eonwe, and I can't see how Pitch could have looked more Seer-ish to them than Boro. So I'd say if the wolves are gunning for the Seer and Boro isn't one of them, then Eonwe likely isn't, either. Make sense?Yes, unless Brinn is a wolf. (Or for argument's sake: if I was.)

Coupled with a reminder ala Pitch's memory, not only do the ordos in QT not know anymore than we do, but the wolves in QT can only PM each other, not wolves alive in the GT at Night. QT wolves would be just as interested in 'seer' hints. If the fake seer is an ordo haphazardly trying to create cover and they accidentally single out an innocent, they might sit back and let QT ordos go for it first since neither the Ranger nor Hunter know who the actual Seer is anyways.
Living wolves in the GT would be more interested in who looks frustrated or generally upset over the fake seer as these could be signs of the actual Seer telling them to quit without too much reveal. This does require that living wolves in the GT do identify that the fake seer is indeed not real though, otherwise at least for a few Days, the fake-seer if successful at somehow influencing the QT vote could divide their attentions and expose them to players.
It could also be a reason why Pitch was selected the previous Night by the remaining wolves or Lal before.
Did it take me this long to realise "GT" was not a typo for "QT" but an abbreviation of "game thread"? *facepalm* *sneaks off to confiscate they cuties' gin tonic bc it's us now who are the gin tonic thread*

More seriously though, I can't make very much sense of where you're getting with this, Ka. So do you think Boro is an innocent fake or a guilty fake?

Not sure what to make of Boro's newborn fatalism. Also:

Can't deny no one really trusted me, except for the QT for 1.5 days.I TRUSTED YOU BUT I COULDN'T SAY IT TOO OPENLY BECAUSE I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE SEER AND IT WAS BETTER TO KEEP ENOUGH VOICED SUSPICION ON YOU TO KEEP YOU ALIVE.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

And

1a) After not falling for it. Granted I only tried to for like 2 days, once it turned out Lhuna was a wolf. I said what the heck, go for it and lay it on thick.

But wasn't convincing so now I'm probably being kept as an easy lynch. Can't deny no one really trusted me, except for the QT for 1.5 days. If they didn't fall for it, the pattern seems to be kill the people who look obviously innocent/difficult to lynch.

Eonwe and myself are the new Zil and Mac. At least that's what my thoughts are now. With my luck the QT innocents will now vote for me, because I ruined their trust and they're probably ****ed off. I still will tell them though, no rash decisions, I did all that I could to try to let the QT know I wasn't the seer. I thought it would send a good enough signal if they saw no purpose to what I was proposing and figured I'd be dead by now anyway.

Genuinely not seeing Boro's side, why he thinks himself an easy lynch. Ka and Eonwe both go before Boro, IMO.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Ka

It's fine to go for Eonwe here too. Don't vote Lottie or Greenie.

[Kath]

Can't deny no one really trusted me, except for the QT for 1.5 days.
I think Pitch did, actually. Like I said when I went through his posts, he definitely backed off quite quickly after initially engaging with Boro at the start of the Day.

[Boromir88]

Hmmm. I reread Boro's non-reveal. I think I have been thinking him the seer for longer than he has pretended to be one, so perhaps I should blame mostly myself... I thought it explained not only some of his cryptic comments, but also why he gave me both unusual and innocent vibes, why he chose to act so weird on Day1, and why he's been so adamant about my innocence when basically everyone else has questioned it (and perhaps why he did such a legate180 about Brinn). I think his reveal sounds fairly innocent (why would a wolf do any of this? or admit it?), but I would like to ask him more than ever give his updated, honest opinion of everyone - but in particular Eönwë, Brinn and myself.

In my own self-quarantine I've been going back to the earliest of earliest beginnings. I miss the banter and the "I suspect SPM because I was woken up by pots and pans banging" or "I saw horse prints at the scene, it has to be Firefoot!" Or how I nicknamed SPM, Spam, because of his habit to have long novels of analysis and theory on everyone and every topic.

Now everyone hates Day 1s. And the longer I stay around, the tighter things get, the more tense I get because I don't want my natural weirdness to cause irreparable damage. In the banter you can find the some of the best and most entertaining interactions.

Like, fair enough if he was pretending to have dreamt of innocent me and Brinn. But how did he know Inzil was innocent?

I don't think I did say anything about knowing Zil's innocence? It was G55 and Brinn Day 1. Day 2 Huey and Mac. Day 3 everyone voted sally, there was no other wagon.

Not sure what to make of Boro's newborn fatalism. Also:

I TRUSTED YOU BUT I COULDN'T SAY IT TOO OPENLY BECAUSE I THOUGHT YOU WERE THE SEER AND IT WAS BETTER TO KEEP ENOUGH VOICED SUSPICION ON YOU TO KEEP YOU ALIVE.

I took that as seriously no one trusted me. Like an "Ok I can lynch Boro whenever because he's weird." I mean, what you say in hindsight makes sense. At the time I was twitchy by all the suspicion people were tossing around, without actually getting the votes. Hence the nerves after sally's reveal that there could be a bandwagon against me.

Genuinely not seeing Boro's side, why he thinks himself an easy lynch. Ka and Eonwe both go before Boro, IMO.

Whenever I'm in these villages, I always feel like it won't take a lot for a bandwagon. Someone says they're the hunter/ranger/seer and it's "well let's lynch Boro." QT votes and it doesn't take a lot of convincing to hop on that train.

[Thinlómien]

:cool:

Typical of the ball to start rolling just as I have to get to cooking dinner etc but -

I might prefer Eönwë over Ka just to relieve him of his suffering earlier :p

I'll be popping in and out for the rest of the Day but you can consider my werewolf fatigue greatly alleviated and my vote for Eönwë or Ka guaranteed. :D

[Thinlómien]

I almost feel like patting Boro on the head (if he's not guilty that is :mad: ).

For the record, your paranoia about a potential last-minute bandwagon against you greatly added to my belief that you were the seer :rolleyes::D

[Eönwë]

I think Pitch did, actually. Like I said when I went through his posts, he definitely backed off quite quickly after initially engaging with Boro at the start of the Day.

Pitch definitely seems to have bought Boro's fake reveal.


I'm very confused all in all but - Eönwë, what post do you refer to? Why is the jury only "maybe" out on me?


Boro's post, quoted yet again:
I would say most of our days have gone far too narrow. We put ourselves into pretty much just 2 options. Day 1 was G55 and Brinn. Day 2 Mac and Huey, Yesterday Inzil and sally. Today Lommy and Inzil.

I don't know a whole lot about the advocates for it, but I think we need a day where there's a lot more spread. Force the wolves into some tougher choices, instead of just picking between 2 innocents or whether they wanted to bus wolf-Huey or not.

I felt like one possible interpretation is that in talking about innocents he may have only been talking about previous Days - and this seems to have maybe been the interpretation taken by Lalaith because she only pushes him on Day 1 (Brinn) and Zil (Day 3). But upon reread it does seem less likely.

[A Little Green]

As for the Eonwe connection - if it's option 1), this would mean either that Lommy and/or Brinn are wolves, and/or that Eonwe is innocent. More specifically, the Pitchwife kill doesn't make sense if they're going for the Seer, Eonwe is a wolf and Boro isn't; both Pitch and Boro suspected Eonwe, and I can't see how Pitch could have looked more Seer-ish to them than Boro. So I'd say if the wolves are gunning for the Seer and Boro isn't one of them, then Eonwe likely isn't, either. Make sense?
Yes, unless Brinn is a wolf. (Or for argument's sake: if I was.)
That's fair actually. Hm...

Anyway, regardless of all this madness, THE Ka is still the likeliest wolf in my book. I'm on the fence about Rune and Brinn, second-guessing Lottie (Lommy is right, that list was weird) and somewhat Eonwe too, and starting to get paranoid about Kath. I'm feeling pretty good about Lommy and Shasta, and will now stop talking about Boro because that's what he deserves. :p

[Loslote]

I still don't suspect Lottie really (unless maybe if Boro turns out to be a wolf??) but her list made me raise about five eyebrows. What's the difference between "probably innocent" and "probably not a wolf"?? Like is there a middle ground? Also why on earth would you list yourself as "probably innocent"? Shouldn't you be more sure about that????

Originally I had only two groups, but I got nervous about being that confident about so many people, so I split the innocent group and put Boro and Rune into a slightly less confident group. Also, yes, I am very confident that I am innocent! But with the village getting so small, it was helpful for me at least to write out all of the names, and see who's left on the other side: Ka, Eonwe, Brinn, and Shasta (but only by default).

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally I had only two groups, but I got nervous about being that confident about so many people, so I split the innocent group and put Boro and Rune into a slightly less confident group. Also, yes, I am very confident that I am innocent! But with the village getting so small, it was helpful for me at least to write out all of the names, and see who's left on the other side: Ka, Eonwe, Brinn, and Shasta (but only by default).

I'm so sad that your only feeling about me is default. :(

[Loslote]

I'm so sad that your only feeling about me is default. :(

My gut feeling is to trust you. I just don't think I have enough logic to back that up, so I won't commit to your innocence based only on a feeling.

[Eönwë]

I still see no good reason for Boro to try what he did as an innocent for the reason he gave. It required him to really really strongly believe that Brinn, Zil, and Lommy were good and I was evil, and I find it very unlikely that any innocent is confident enough to do that and take such a gamble.

On the other hand, if he's a wolf, getting those innocents on his side would be a good way to softly take control of the village and exert some influence - he both gets to be listened to, and gets to hush discussion of a possible slip he made. A nice attempt at a save, but I still don't buy it.


+- Boro

[Eönwë]

In the end seer is still alive, so maybe it didn't work as I had intended, but to some extent it did.

...what? This sounds like your aim was to get the seer killed?

At the very least an extremely poor choice of wording.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So yet another list from my hand… Inspired by Lottie.
This is not a thorough summarization of pros and cons, just a status on my feelings right now.

Big ol' wolf
Eönwë - Seriously let's get this done.

Possible wolf:
Brinn - My initial suspicion of her dwindled somewhat, probably due to her voting pattern and her playing it pretty safe.

Seems more innocent than not
Ka - I haven’t personally spotted any clear wolf like behaviour, but I see suspicion is mounting.
Boro - I assumed him the seer. Right now I believe him innocent. But it is a confusing plot, that could be devious.
Shasta - Probably the person I have the least read on.
Lottie - I started thinking Lottie looked very suspicious, but as the game progresses I think she makes more and more sense.

Probably innocent:
Lommy - Hmm there was the whole Sally thing so maybe she belong further up the list, but otherwise I feel really good about Lommy.
Greenie - Nothing but good vibes, she over analyzes stuff though.
Kath - Seems Kath-like and helpful (in the innocent way)

I have a toddler feeling ill at home, and a girlfriend taking an exam, so I will be voting shortly. Just in case. I will in all likelihood vote for Eönwë.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta - Probably the person I have the least read on.


My feelings!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Eönwë

Because I cannot remember being more convinced of someone's guilt, ever.

I hope to be able to pop in a bit before deadline, but no promises.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I think at this point if I had to pick a third wolf for an Eonwe/Ka duo it would be Brinn. Outside shot at Kath, maybe - I've barely looked at her.

[A Little Green]

Greenie - Nothing but good vibes, she over analyzes stuff though.This is basically my life in a nutshell.

I won’t be able to stay around until DL toDay, so I’ll go with my best lead and vote

++THE Ka

In short –

I've been wondering about her for a while now. Her interactions with both known wolves are compatible with them being fellows; they don’t really interact at all except for Ka posting an oddly long bit on D1 about Lhuna’s time constraints and how they make her hard to read (I’m not sure if a Ka who wasn’t Lhuna’s packmate would have had cause to think about this or at least not in that much detail; this is a tiny thing but as their pretty much only interaction it did catch my eye), and then being the first to vote Lhuna after the QT vote. I agree with Boro’s assessment of this being a potentially easy wolf-on-wolf vote as she just followed the QT and thus made herself look good in case Lhuna was lynched while not giving other prospective voters any further reasons to vote her.

Additionally, since Inzil was innocent after all, this makes me rethink Ka’s reaction to Kitanna’s slip. She seconded Inzil calling it curious and thus contributed to flushing out a likely Gifted, but then stayed out of the ensuing discussion with Kit herself. Consequently, she evaded basically all of the scrutiny and suspicion that followed for Inzil, Lhuna, and to some extent Pitch.

So no, I haven’t actually caught her slipping or doing anything outrageous, but I wouldn’t expect to. I refer back to what I said on D1 about how she seems very reasonable but this doesn’t give us anything as she’s just as reasonable when she’s evil. :p

[Eönwë]

What if it's actually a Boro-Lottie-Shasta pack? They're all, either subtly or openly, defending each other and pushing Ka with me as a second option. I really don't like this, and I feel like they're hoping to get the two of (me and Ka) killed over the next two Days and win.

[Eönwë]

There is an alternative that one of the aforementioned pack is replaced by Rune, but that seems a little less likely to me.

[Eönwë]

++Eönwë

Because I cannot remember being more convinced of someone's guilt, ever.

You'll be disappointed then.

[Boromir88]

Anyway, regardless of all this madness, THE Ka is still the likeliest wolf in my book. I'm on the fence about Rune and Brinn, second-guessing Lottie (Lommy is right, that list was weird) and somewhat Eonwe too, and starting to get paranoid about Kath. I'm feeling pretty good about Lommy and Shasta, and will now stop talking about Boro because that's what he deserves. :p

Fair enough, I'll just say though, I'm not the only one dropping seer hinting like crazy over the last couple days. I feel like we have 5 seers or none.

To answer Lommy on my real impressions...

I genuinely think I have a good read on Lommy, so sorry for you to find out I often include you in planning. It's just a habit, you're someone I read well.

I also feel good about Kath. Her questioning were like the few moments of clarity I had, because I don't feel like I'm getting tricked.

Lottie after I caused a disturbance Day 4, also someone I put in "trust."

Greenie I lean innocent, but not someone I would say I "trust."

Unsure about Rune and Shasta at the moment, because they're going with the seer vibes, which could be innocent as well, but after I came out with the truth they could be trying to seize on an opportunity. As they add to my feeling that we have all these seers, but none at the same time.

Eonwe and Brinn I could vote for either today, but not my preference. I think we need (or maybe just myself) a full day of rethinking since I kind of threw a big wrench at everyone today.

Ka as my preferred choice and vote today.

[Loslote]

In the end seer is still alive, so maybe it didn't work as I had intended, but to some extent it did.

...what? This sounds like your aim was to get the seer killed?

At the very least an extremely poor choice of wording.

I interpreted it as Boro's plan was to draw the Night kill away from the Seer. It didn't work - he wasn't Night killed - but neither was the Seer, so no harm no foul.

[Boromir88]

I interpreted it as Boro's plan was to draw the Night kill away from the Seer. It didn't work - he wasn't Night killed - but neither was the Seer, so no harm no foul.

Aye. Sorry if how I worded it was confusing.

[Eönwë]

If Ka actually is evil, I don't think the remaining two of Boro, Shasta, and Lottie would want to sacrifice her like that, so the wolves (or at least one of them) might be elsewhere.

[Loslote]

If Ka actually is evil, I don't think the remaining two of Boro, Shasta, and Lottie would want to sacrifice her like that, so the wolves (or at least one of them) might be elsewhere.

The remaining two?

[Eönwë]

The remaining two?

There are 3 wolves; if Ka is one, then one of you three (Boro, Shasta, Lottie) is an innocent and thus there are two remaining wolves.

[Eönwë]

There is an alternative that one of the aforementioned pack is replaced by Rune, but that seems a little less likely to me.

Follow-up: Looking at the voting yesterDay, if Rune is evil then Lottie probably isn't as well, so that would leave the wolf-pack as Boro-Shasta-Rune.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

There are 3 wolves; if Ka is one, then one of you three (Boro, Shasta, Lottie) is an innocent and thus there are two remaining wolves.

You've certainly narrowed it down awfully far.

[Nogrod]

I'm late. Sorry.

QT vote in a moment.

[Thinlómien]

This is what I meant by relieving Eönwë of his suffering. His posting toDay is coming across as an increasingly desperate wolf.

[Nogrod]

The Quarantine Thread has voted.


++ Brinniel

[THE Ka]

[RL - Since I'm pretty much dead to rights anyways and I have a lot to do today before I leave home for a funeral, I might as well get my vote out of the way. It might be better to shuffle me off to the QT anyways, because I won't have access to a desktop here for the next three days and only my phone at times. Thanks everyone for a fun play. :)]

As I said yesterDay, if you have evidence to suspect me before the QT, then go with what you've trusted for Days now. I don't take offense in a good play.

++Brinn

I've suspected them in the beginning, decided to give them a pass after the QT vote to see if they'd start defending themselves and giving more reason why not to suspect them, but they've remained rather quiet instead and only made agreeable commentary. I still consider it an early Days slip that they were so complimentary of Huin's 'insights'.

x'ed with Nog. Sorry.

[Eönwë]

This is what I meant by relieving Eönwë of his suffering. His posting toDay is coming across as an increasingly desperate wolf.

It's actually an increasingly frustrated innocent who's realised he doesn't know what's going on at all and is trying to connect things before he gets killed off.

[Loslote]

Okay. Looks like the Cuties agree we're on the right track. I'd be happy to vote for any of Ka, Eonwe, or Brinn.

[Eönwë]

Interesting vote from the QT though

[Thinlómien]

The Quarantine Thread has voted.


++ BrinnielNot again :D:D:D

Are they trolling us because we (= Boro) trolled them?

But in all seriousness, I am leaning towards agreeing with their suspicion. I'd still prefer to start with Ka or Eönwë, though, as I'm more certain of them.


edit: xed with everything after Nogrod

[Brinniel]

About to hop on a meeting, so I'm doing this now:

++Ka

[Nogrod]

And the votes thus far.

Shasta -> THE Ka
Rune -> Eönwë
Greenie -> THE Ka 2
QT -> Brinn
THE Ka -> Brinn 2
Brinn -> THE Ka 3

[Eönwë]

I'm probably most keen on quarantining Boro or Brinn at this point - Boro because I still don't trust his seer behaviour and Brinn because she's sub-radar and the QT thinks she's bad. Ka comes at a close second because I suspect her less, but we would definitely would learn something from her. Rune next.

[Boromir88]

Are they trolling us because we (= Boro) trolled them?


I would hope not. I mean if they were peeved at me, I would think they would have taken it out on me.

[Eönwë]

Should be back a bit before the DL.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

You'll be disappointed then.

I often am.

[Loslote]

++ THE Ka

[Boromir88]

As much of a headache I probably caused everyone, at least for myself, I'm pretty comfortable with these...

I considered making it interesting...because I trust Lommy and Kath more, but I don't trust Eonwe. Them and myselves I believe who we have left to vote?

I considered Brinn, because I don't know what the QT is trying to do, but I don't trust THE Ka, and she added on to vote Brinn.

I think the time for plans and tricks is over. A missed wolf today and we're in big trouble. So...

++THE Ka

Edit: changing to highlight

[Thinlómien]

++THE Ka

Let's roll with it then.


And about Boro - maybe y'all have already read this between the lines, but I have been far more mad at myself for falling for Boro's little ploy than at him for actually doing it. After all, if he's innocent - like I think he more likely is - it was never me who he was trying to "harm". But I've kept guilt tripping him after my initial yelling for two reasons 1) he kinda deserves to be teased a little after giving us all so many gray hairs and being presumptous enough to try to rein the QT to his own purposes :p and 2) I thought his reaction to guilt tripping would be telling, because I think innocent Boro might feel genuinely a little sorry for duping me while guilty Boro might feel more amused by it. So after the first two posts I have admittedly been partly fishing for a reaction.

The morose, low-key-seeking-to-make-amends vibe I get is not as unambiguous as I hoped, but it is quite a lot more innocent than suspicious seeming to me. I don't think a Borowolf would pull this kind of crocodile tears - in my experience Borowolf's reaction to suspicion is most often the "fair enough if you think that makes sense, I warn you you are wrong though" type. And here Boro is going "I understand if everybody hates me now" while he hasn't even been that seriously suspected - just his behaviour has been scrutinised which is more than understandable.

So tl;dr Boro - we don't hate you, not even me ;), and the rest of you - I think he's more likely innocent than guilty.

[Thinlómien]

Shasta -> THE Ka
Rune -> Eönwë
Greenie -> THE Ka 2
QT -> Brinn
THE Ka -> Brinn 2
Brinn -> THE Ka 3
Lottie -> THE Ka 4
Boro -> THE Ka 5
Lommy -> THE Ka 6

To vote: Eönwë, Kath

[Kath]

Brinn from the QT again? We've just finished watching Cats so I'm just seeing her as having nine lives now. She's been the pick so often now it just feels like the QT must have some information we simply don't.

That said, it is evidently Ka for the lynch now, so let's see where this takes us.

++THE Ka

[Eönwë]

Well it hardly matters at this point what I vote, but here's hoping that we at least learn something.

++THE Ka

[Boromir88]

Huh.

And now we wait for 30 minutes. I'll take it.

This is the most epic and strangest and weirdest werewolf ever. Regardless of the outcome, it's an absolute nerve-wracking pleasure.

[Nogrod]

As it is a done deal, you'll get the narration already at the DL.

[Thinlómien]

This is the most epic and strangest and weirdest werewolf ever. Regardless of the outcome, it's an absolute nerve-wracking pleasure.Ditto. It's been absolutely insane.

As it is a done deal, you'll get the narration already at the DL.Yay!

[Loslote]

This is the most epic and strangest and weirdest werewolf ever. Regardless of the outcome, it's an absolute nerve-wracking pleasure.

Agreed. This has been a fantastic game so far, I've been on the edge of my seat many Days in a row. :D

[Boromir88]

All the fireworks were earlier. We all deserve a cool down DL at least once. Recharge and back again for the weekend.

[THE Ka]

Day is ended,
Dim my eyes,
But the QT long before me lies.
Farewell friends! I hear the call,
The village is pushing me into the Hall.
Foam is white, and eyes are red,
I'm not quite finished with the dead.
Lists are spreading, role guessing is free,
Who do we really believe is the seer?
Try asking next time in the QT.

It's been lovely everyone, but it looks I'm needed for a kiki in the QT.

[Brinniel]

All the fireworks were earlier. We all deserve a cool down DL at least once. Recharge and back again for the weekend.
Just got out of my meeting. I agree it's nice to have things calmer at the end for once. Hopefully we are right about this lynch.

[Nogrod]

It was an odd day, this one. The opinions were more polarized: people were more secure on what they thought, having logical and rational arguments to back them, but they continued to differ widely on their conclusions - sometimes even with themselves. No wonder, some people started to freak out a little.

Even though it looked first like a race between some totally other people, in the end Indor – who had been suspected by many, but maybe in a milder manner – started to gain prominence in the voting.

When he realized he was going to be quarantined, he started mildly: "Let me give you a riddle instead..." But suddenly he turned black in fury. “I’m not going to go down as a “lesser candidate” you just can agree upon!”

His soft and light grey eyes flashed into bright red colour and white foam streamed from his mouth. He was growing in size, his sinews breaking, unable to cope with the new proportions.

Sadly, from his POV (as a puppet of Morgoth, that is), the three soldiers and Húrin were fast enough to catch and tie him down while in the middle of transformation into something Angband only knew what it would have been. Tightly in the ropes the magic withered away and people only saw a deeply disturbed and grieving poor old soul, trembling in fever and sweating uncontrollably.

“Get him inside and see that he gets water, bandages and clean linens”, Húrin ordered. Aerin rushed to take care of her father while Gethron and Algund saw to it there wouldn’t be no more surprises from the old man who now seemed to have lost all his willpower.

“So, he was one of… them?”, Morwen asked her husband – well, it was not really a question, but she felt she needed some verification for what she had just seen.

Húrin nodded thoughtfully and glanced to the children at her wife’s feet. "There’s still two more to find out”, he murmured silently.

There was a tear in Morwen's eye. "I miss little Túrin so much..." she whispered to her husband. "And I'm dying for fear for our little lily... will there ever be laughter again if something happens to her?"

Húrin grasped her hand and nodded comfortingly. "I promised old Halmir to watch after young Brandir. I'm not going to let little laughter off my eye either".


~*~


Dead, yes dead

Nogrod – “The Badger”, the Mod (dead on Night1)
Urwen – Glóredhel, healthy person (withered away in grief during Day2)


Quarantined

Galadriel55 – Andróg, the Cobbler (voted into QT on Day1)
Rikae – Haldir, formerly healthy person (infected by the shady Infectors on Night2)
Huinesoron – Hareth, an Infector (voted into QT on Day2)
Kitanna – Huor, the Ranger (infected in the woods by the Infectors on Night3)
Sally – Túrin, the Hunter (voted into QT on Day3)
Macalaure – Grithnir, healthy person (dragged into the QT by the Hunter on Day3)
Legate of Amon Lanc – Asgon, healthy person (infected sneakily on Night4)
Lhunardawen – Sador, an Infector (voted into QT on Day4)
Lalaith – Rían, healthy person (overrun and infected by the Infectors on Night5)
Inziladun – Halmir, healthy person (voted into QT on Day5)
Pitchwife – Turin’s Nurse, healthy person (infected by the Infectors on Night6)
THE Ka – Indor, an Infector (voted into QT on Day6)


Hanging around

Thinlómien
Loslote
Kath
A Little Green
Boromir88
Brinniel
Eönwë
Rune Son of Bjarne
Shastanis Althreduin



It's now Night 7

Sleeping is overrated.

[Nogrod]

Húrin, Morwen and the children had moved to the guesthouse after their last visitor had been quarantined. Even if it was truly embarrassing, it was much more comfortable there than in the back of the barn where they had spent their nights after the Great Hall had been made into the Quarantine-house. Now they had real beds, several rooms to choose and, what Húrin valued the most, some privacy.

That didn’t help him to sleep though. After securing that his family was asleep and the doors were locked, he sneaked into the Night to be alone with the stars. He knew the Valar, or something, was trying to aid him finding answers. He had fallen in a kind of trance every night under the starry sky and felt being approached by something. Like that night his brother was attacked.

Just before the dawn, as he was coming back from his half-dreams, he heard noises somewhere from behind him. Húrin stood up quickly unsheathing his sword, but there was no one there. He listened closely for the night. The air was tense, but there was nothing.

Then he heard it again. It was coming from the direction of the Guesthouse. Terror filled his heart as he rushed towards his family yelling “Drego Morn!” as he ran.

There were black shapes dashing all around him to the left and right – whether they were real or just some trickery of Morgoth, Húrin had no time or mind to find out. Suddenly he felt a blow in his forehead, coming out from the darkness. Time stopped.

Then he heard a yell. A yell of a terrified child!

Dashing off from the ground he realized he had hit a low branch of the village oak. He cursed his mindless splurging but hadn’t time to pay heed to anything but the sound he had just heard.

Getting finally round the corner of the Great Hall he reached the Guesthouse only to hear the screaming of Morwen and cries of Lalaith from inside – but what stopped him was the mauled and shivering body of little Brandir hanging in ropes from the doorway – all covered with blood, pleghm and sweat. He was hardly conscious, whining quietly his pain.

Húrin fell on his knees in front of the child and burst into tears.


~*~


Dead, yes dead

Nogrod – “The Badger”, the Mod (dead on Night1)
Urwen – Glóredhel, healthy person (withered away in grief during Day2)


Quarantined

Galadriel55 – Andróg, the Cobbler (voted into QT on Day1)
Rikae – Haldir, formerly healthy person (infected by the shady Infectors on Night2)
Huinesoron – Hareth, an Infector (voted into QT on Day2)
Kitanna – Huor, the Ranger (infected in the woods by the Infectors on Night3)
Sally – Túrin, the Hunter (voted into QT on Day3)
Macalaure – Grithnir, healthy person (dragged into the QT by the Hunter on Day3)
Legate of Amon Lanc – Asgon, healthy person (infected sneakily on Night4)
Lhunardawen – Sador, an Infector (voted into QT on Day4)
Lalaith – Rían, healthy person (overrun and infected by the Infectors on Night5)
Inziladun – Halmir, healthy person (voted into QT on Day5)
Pitchwife – Turin’s Nurse, healthy person (infected by the Infectors on Night6)
THE Ka – Indor, an Infector (voted into QT on Day6)
Shastanis Althreduin – Brandir, healthy little child (outrageously infected on Night7)


Hanging around

Thinlómien
Loslote
Kath
A Little Green
Boromir88
Brinniel
Eönwë
Rune Son of Bjarne



It’s now Day 7


It is time to have a discussion.

[Loslote]

Two more wolves. It's gotta be Eonwe, and I'm almost positive the other one is Brinn. I don't want to go around counting any chickens, but I think we're in a good position here.

[Loslote]

Just from a very quick scan of yesterDay's posts, I found a couple of posts from Shasta that looked Seerish. If that was on purpose to draw fire, well done, Shasta.

++Ka

It's fine to go for Eonwe here too. Don't vote Lottie or Greenie.

This one in particular REALLY sounds like a Seer who might've dreamed me and Greenie innocent, and may have even dreamed Ka and Eonwe guilty. Followed by:

I think at this point if I had to pick a third wolf for an Eonwe/Ka duo it would be Brinn. Outside shot at Kath, maybe - I've barely looked at her.

Which sounds a lot like "I'm going to dream Brinn next; I haven't dreamed of Kath, don't assume I have just because I've said she looks okay."

I haven't looked past yesterDay, but at this point I sort of assume the wolves are looking for Seer clues in the more recent Days. The Seer has more info now than they did early, so there might be more clues to find.

[Boromir88]

My poor child, thanks for giving your life to bring down more than one infector.

Which sounds a lot like "I'm going to dream Brinn next; I haven't dreamed of Kath, don't assume I have just because I've said she looks okay."~Lottie

I might have botched my plot, but glad some good came out of it for coming out when I did.

[Eönwë]

Looks like we managed to buy ourselves another Day!

I also think I'm going to have to go back and re-evaluate my opinions on everyone, since clearly I have no idea what's going on.

[Eönwë]

First though, an updated full vote count:

Bold is evil, italics is good.

Day 1
Lhuna -> Lhuna
Rikae -> Brinniel
G55 -> Rikae
Boro -> Pitchwife
Urwen -> G55
Pitchwife -> Brinniel (2)
Kath -> G55 (2)
Shasta -> Pitchwife (2)
Kitanna -> Pitchwife (3)
Inzil -> G55 (3)
Lottie -> G55 (4)
Greenie -> Macalaure
THE Ka -> Brinniel (3)
Eönwë -> Urwen
Rune -> Brinniel (4)
Lommy -> G55 (5)
Huines -> G55 (6)
Legate -> Brinn (5)
Macalaure -> Brinn (6)
Brinniel -> G55 (7)
---G55 Fake Ranger Reveal---
Sally -> Brinn (7)

Reminder: while G55 is evil, because she's the Cobbler she and the Infectors didn't know who each other were at this point.



Day 2
Lommy -> Macalaure
Kath -> Inzil
Lhuna -> Lommy
Macalaure -> Lommy 2
QT -> Brinniel
Greenie -> Macalaure 2
Legate -> Huinesoron
Huinesoron -> Macalaure 3
Rune -> Loslote
Kitanna -> Huinesoron 2
THE Ka -> Loslote 2
Pitchwife -> Huinesoron 3
Loslote -> Huinesoron 4
Sally -> Macalaure 4
Inzil -> Macalaure 5
Lalaith -> Huinesoron 5
Brinn -> Huinesoron 6
Boro -> Mac 6
Eönwë -> Huinesoron 7
Shasta -> Mac


Day 3
THE Ka -> Sally
QT -> Brinn
Eönwë -> Sally 2
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Sally 3
Lommy -> Sally 4
--- Sally Hunter reveal---
Inzil -> Brinn 2
Lottie -> Sally 5
Lalaith -> Sally 6
Legate -> Sally 7
Shasta -> Sally 8
Brinn -> Sally 9
Rune -> Inzil 2
Boro -> Sally 10
Pitch -> Eonwe



Day 4
Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2
Lalaith -> Lhuna 3
Lommy -> Lhuna 4
Rune -> Eönwë 3
Kath -> Lhuna 5
Shasta -> Lhuna 6
Boro -> Eönwë 4
Brinn -> Lhuna 7



Day 5
QT -> Rune
Kath -> Inzil
Greenie -> Inzil 2
Shasta -> THE Ka
Eönwë -> Rune 2
Boro -> Eönwë
Inzil -> Rune 3
Lommy -> Inzil 3
Lottie -> Rune 4
Brinn -> Inzil 4
Rune -> Inzil 5
Pitch -> Inzil 6
THE Ka -> Shasta



Day 6
Shasta -> THE Ka
Rune -> Eönwë
Greenie -> THE Ka 2
QT -> Brinn
THE Ka -> Brinn 2
Brinn -> THE Ka 3
Lottie -> THE Ka 4
Boro -> THE Ka 5
Lommy -> THE Ka 6
Kath -> THE Ka
Eonwe -> THE Ka

[Eönwë]

So what, do we learn from the votes? Commenting as I look through.


Day 1
It looks like there were good and bad voters among the Brinn voters, so it's not clear whether we learn much here.

If Brinn is evil, it is unlikely that Rune is.
If Brinn is evil, Kath, Lottie and Lommy all voted to save her, so they could be evil.



Day 2
Plenty of good-aligned people voted for Mac, so a Mac-vote doesn't necessarily make you evil.

Rune and THE Ka voted for Lottie, which makes both Lottie look better - it's unlikely that THE Ka would make a packmate into a viable quarantine candidate. It also makes Rune look better - it's unlikely that wolves would vote for the same person immediately after one another.



Day 3
Both good and bad people voted for Sally, so we can't tell much from that. Theoretically, wolves might want to not vote Sally as a way of looking better later, but again, innocents voted for non-Sally candidates so we can't tell that much.



Day 4
I haven't gone back to look at the times, but Rune's vote definitely was to quarantine me and save Lhuna. Boro's may have also been, but it was a bit late.

It turns out THE Ka is capable of turning a packmate into a viable quarantine-candidate. Maybe Day 2 doesn't make Lottie look as good by association after all.



Day 5
We have one confirmed innocent voting for Inzil, and one confirmed innocent voting for Rune, so nothing obvious there.

If Rune is evil, Lottie seems likely to be innocent, since she brought him pretty close to being quarantined.



Day 6
Only Rune and THE Ka herself didn't vote for THE Ka. I see three options here. If Rune is evil, he tried to save a packmate, and the third packmate realised they had to go with the flow or get discovered, the wolves saw the current and decided to go with the flow, or, based on THE Ka's last posts about RL and time, she agreed to be sacrificed for the good of the wolfpack, which means that the earlier voters could also be wolves. Hard to tell

[Eönwë]

Looking at people's votes over all Days:

Lommy - Voted for Lhuna before it was a given that she was going to be quarantined, and THE Ka when it was. Voted to save Brinn on Day 1 and Rune on Day 5. Verdict: mostly good based on votes; less good if Brinn or Rune is evil.

Loslote - Voted Hui at a time when it could've gone in either direction, voted Boro before the village had made Lhuna a viable candidate, made THE Ka a clear frontrunner. Voted to save Brinn on Day 1 Verdict: mostly good based on votes; less good if Brinn is evil.

Kath - Has voted Zil (a known innocent) 3/6 Days, and voted THE Ka after her quarantining was inevitable. In her favour, she strengthened Lhuna's lead at an important time. Verdict: mostly good based on votes.

A Little Green - Until THE Ka yesterDay, only voted people who we know were innocent - Mac and then Zil. She did turn THE Ka into a viable candidate, but if THE Ka did offer herself up to be sacrificed, then this would fit into that account. Additionally, a second vote does not necessarily make a viable candidate. Verdict: mixed.

Boromir88 - Until yesterDay, when THE Ka's fate was mostly sealed, has only voted for innocents - Pitch, Mac, Sally, who are known innocents, and me for 2 Days. Verdict: bad.

Brinniel - Voted for Hui when it mattered, voted for Lhuna after it didn't, voted against Rune when it did. Made THE Ka votes a full-blown bandwaggon. Verdict: mostly good, but if Rune is evil, mixed; if Greenie is evil, less good (since that suggests that there was a plan on sacrificing THE Ka).

Rune Son of Bjarne - The only times his votes have had an impact is to save Lhuna on Day 4, and himself on Day 5. Voted for Brinn on Day 1. Verdict: bad; mixed if Brinn is evil.


So ignoring the conditionals, that leaves:

Mostly good: Lottie, Lommy, Kath, Brinn
Mixed: Greenie
Bad: Boro, Rune

Boro and Rune I already suspect, but I think moving forward it would be worth looking at Greenie more closely.

[Thinlómien]

Very quiet here - and I'm not surprised. I spent last night playing computer games instead of ww because I was like "eh nothing big happening in there toDay, Shasta the seer is dead and we're gonna lynch Eönwe and nobody can be probably motivated to do much analysis about anything".

WELL :D

Excellent job, Shasta, I now forgive you for your previous lack of psychic brilliance in this game :p

Because let's not pretend (I mean I understand why Eönwë is pretending but the rest of us shouldn't) this was about anything else than Shasta's all-but-seer-reveal yesterDay:

++Ka

It's fine to go for Eonwe here too. Don't vote Lottie or Greenie.

Why would the wolves have gone for him if he wasn't right?

I don't see a single reason.

They must be frantic that the seer is alive and could condemn them all. They can't afford to start framing people.

Ergo, I'm 99.9% sure Eönwë is a wolf and Lottie and Greenie are innocent. I was pretty certain of that yesterDay anyway, but I would very much like to thank Shasta for confirming it for us.

The question remains, who is the last wolf? I'm afraid I can't bring myself to dig too deep into the question right now because it's a pressing question only toMorrow AND my work might be wasted by a seer reveal anyhow, but if I had to hazard a guess, I'm still thinking Brinn, it makes the most sense. But I guess Kath and Boro are still theoretically on the table too.

I am going to vote Eönwë probably no matter what (sorry Eönwë if you feel obloged to respond to this, I meant what I said yesterDay that it would have been perhaps nicer to lynch you yesterDay because Ka might have been chill enough to give up toDay while you obviously aren't *pats wolvish head*) but it feels a little wrong to do it this early. I'll be back but yeah, like I said, probably won't post that much toDay because Shasta did all the work for us... (And given how long this game is, maybe it's nice to have on chill Day in the middle, in case hunting the last wolf will still become a big drama.)

[A Little Green]

Colour-coded spreadsheet of doom is back! :smokin: I added everyone’s interactions with THE Ka, and based on what this gives me, my best guess would be that our remaining wolves are among Kath, Brinn, and Eonwe. Rune and Boro are also very much possible. Lommy and Lottie would be unlikely. Overall, I'm a bit unnerved by the fact that a majority of our remaining villagers still look compatible as fellows to our dead wolves. I shortened the bits about previous wolves for convenience, but didn’t leave them out altogether since they’re still relevant. Again, here’s the whole thing –


Lommy
Possible match with Huin, unlikely with Lhuna, fairly unlikely with Ka.

Huin and Lommy – Mutual suspicion without votes, could be wolf-on-wolf.

Lhuna and Lommy – Mutual suspicion with votes. Lhuna votes for Lommy with barely a reason on D2, Lommy freaks out about Lhuna’s bandwagon comment in the same post. On D3 Lommy points out Lhuna noticing Huin’s slip as possibly wolfish, which would be pretty brutal if they were fellows. Then on D4 Lommy casts a fairly crucial vote for Lhuna. None of this looks wolf-on-wolfy to me.

THE Ka and Lommy – Ka barely mentions Lommy. As for Lommy, on D1 and D2 she lumps Ka together with Kath under reasonable and innocentish. On D3 she says Ka's D2 vote looks bad in light of Huin's role, lists her as slightly suspicious and says used to consider her innocent on very little evidence. Then on D4 she says "THE Ka - still very much in her own bubble, which freaks me out a little. But is that enough reason to considering voting her? Ehhhh...". On D5 she says she’s been saying for Days how Ka seems harmless by playing in her own bubble and avoiding controversy and this is alarming as it reminds her of past Ka-wolves; considers voting her but prefers Eonwe. Then on D6 says Ka is a very likely wolf and votes her. This could go either way, but overall seems like a fairly natural thought process to me. I know I always say consistent doesn’t equal innocent, but this kind of consistency – starting from one opinion, slowly beginning to doubt it, then consolidating a different opinion and following through with a vote - doesn’t ring alarm bells.

Other observations: I still think her reaction to Boro’s non-reveal looks very genuine and makes me feel better about her.


Lottie
Unlikely match with Huin and THE Ka, fairly unlikely with Lhuna.

Huin and Lottie – On D1 Lottie agrees very vocally with Huin several times and even points this out herself; on D2 casts a fairly crucial vote on Huin.

Lhuna and Lottie – Mostly either consider each other innocent or have low-key, could-go-either-way interactions. On D2 Lottie suspects Lhuna for discussing Kitanna but later forgets to suspect her for it. When called out by Pitch, Lottie is open about how she probably has a biased frame of mind since she didn’t suspect Lhuna previously; I’m not sure a Lottiewolf would say she literally had a biased frame of mind where a fellow is concerned.

THE Ka and Lottie – Mutual suspicion with votes. On D1 Ka points out Lottie's repeated complimenting of Huin which would be pretty brutal from a fellow wolf on D1, later lumps her with Brinn as suspicious but suspects Brinn over Lottie. On D2 Lottie says Ka is helpful but under the radar, Ka suspects Lottie for playing safe and polished and is second to vote for her. Then on D3 Lottie finds Ka and Rune's votes for herself suspicious and lists both under "dubious". On D4 Lottie says she doesn’t trust Ka but doesn’t have solid reasons to suspect her, either. On D5 Lottie points out Ka's Lhuna vote could be wolf-on-wolf (again somewhat brutal if they were fellows), pre-votes Inzil or Ka, says she is beginning to suspect Eonwe but would prefer to lynch Ka, and says Ka's case against Shasta could indicate Ka and Eonwe being packmates. Later Lottie says she doesn't want to lynch Inzil after all but go for Rune, Ka or Eonwe; votes Rune over Ka due to better likelihood of a Rune lynch. On D6 Lottie still suspects Ka and votes for her.

Other observations: The Shasta kill makes Lottie look good, as Shasta was Seer hinting pretty heavily about having dreamed myself and Lottie as innocent, and the wolves obviously bit.


Boro
Somewhat possible match with all three.

Huin and Boro – Huin light-suspects Boro; on D2 Boro doesn't want to vote for Huin and votes for Mac at a crucial moment.

Lhuna and Boro – A lot going on. On D2 Boro defends Lommy against Lhuna and flip-flops on whether he finds Lhuna suspicious or not; on D3 still not comfortable with the Lommy vote and says he'll vote for Inzil or Lhuna; on D4 speculates on Lhuna-Lottie-Inzil pack, is first to pre-vote Lhuna but then ends up voting for Eonwe after it no longer matters given Lhuna's lead (presumably to flush out potential packmates? This makes him look slightly better). Lhuna, meanwhile, suspects Boro from D2 onwards but doesn't act on it.

THE Ka and Boro – On D2 Boro analyses the G55- and Brinn-wagons for potential suspicious votes, doesn't mention Ka or several other Brinn voters (Mac, Legate, Sally) at all; later, after this has been brought up by others, says Ka's vote placement was suspicious and wants to look closer at her. On D5 Boro agrees with Lottie's "wolf-on-wolf" take on Ka's Lhuna vote, and says Ka's case against Shasta looks opportunistic. On D6 he finds Ka the most suspicious and votes for her. Boro doesn’t really take the lead in suspecting or voting for THE Ka, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about his role.

Other observations: This was really interesting, actually. The non-reveal brouhaha yesterDay initially made me feel better about Boro, but looking at his interactions with our known wolves does make me reconsider somewhat.


Rune
Somewhat possible match with all three.

Huin and Rune – Barely interact with each other.

Lhuna and Rune – On D1 Rune says he always believes the best of Lhuna; as discussed before, this could be Runewolf hiding behind what he always does (in the same post he also said he always suspects Eonwe, and has consistently suspected Eonwe for most of the game). On D4 Rune says he would like to have a better look before voting Lhuna and won't just follow QT, which tallies with his previous independent voting and doesn’t tell much either way. Meanwhile, Lhuna barely mentions Rune aside from mentioning on D4 that he could be a submarine wolf; on the same Day Lhuna also casts doubt on Lommy's conclusion that the Legate kill makes Rune look good. Again as discussed, this doesn’t necessarily make them less likely fellows after all; as Lommy pointed out, this could as well be Lhuna pointing out a flaw in a theory that she only spotted because she knew that the premise (Rune is innocent) was faulty.

THE Ka and Rune - On D1 Ka lumps Rune together with Lhuna in her long-ish discussion of their time constraints; I know I said this made me think Ka and Lhuna were fellows, but I’m not sure whether she would single out two fellow wolves this way. On D2 Rune says Ka is leaning good, insightful and helpful, but nothing concrete. On D4 Ka subtly questions Lhuna's criticism of Lommy's theory re:Legate that would point to innocent Rune; this would make sense with Ka being a fellow of both Rune and Lhuna. On D5 Ka downplays the QT vote for Rune. Then on D6 Rune says Ka seems more innocent than not, probably the last person aside from Eonwe to think so.

Other observations: This would be a lot easier if we actually knew why the wolves killed Legate. Because I agree with Lommy, if they were looking for possible Seers it’s fairly unlikely that Rune is a wolf.


Brinn
Somewhat possible match with all three.

Huin and Brinn – Huin vocally defends Brinn, Brinn votes for Huin. As mentioned before, the latter could be Brinn trying to distance herself from a fellow wolf who had attached himself a little too closely to her.

Lhuna and Brinn - Mutual suspicion since D2. On D2 Lhuna speculates about Brinn-Huin wolf pair, though only after it had already been brought up by others. On D3 Brinn feels worse about Lhuna, does an analysis and finds her suspicious but doesn't consider voting her as she hasn't been around; on D4 Brinn is seventh to vote for Lhuna. Could pass for wolf-on-wolf.

THE Ka and Brinn – Mutual suspicion here too. On D1 Brinn says THE Ka seems level-headed and leaning innocentish, while Ka suspects Brinn for playing safe and votes for her (3., with G55 4 and Pitch 3). This would be risky but not unthinkably so for D1 wolf-on-wolf as both G55 and Pitch were ahead of Brinn. On D2 Ka continues to suspect Brinn but votes for Lottie (both had 1 vote at the time). On D3 Brinn forgets Ka from her list of non-Mac/Huin voters and then says she needs to keep a better eye on her, later analyses her but doesn't come to a conclusion. On D4 Brinn still hasn’t come to a conclusion about Ka but says Ka's vote for Lhuna could be wolf-on-wolf. On D5 Brinn pre-votes Inzil and "to a lesser extent" Ka; then on D6 follows Boro on suspecting Ka and votes for her. Ka votes for Brinn, though she was so universally suspected by this stage that I don’t think we can give much weight to her vote either way.

Other observations: I still don’t know what to make of the Cutie votes for her – or more specifically, of the Cuties voting for her again with an innocent majority. Brinn being a wolf would also explain why the wolves didn’t believe Boro’s fake Seer hints.


Eonwe
Somewhat possible match with all three.

Huin and Eonwe – Eonwe casts deciding vote on Huin, though as discussed he will probably have been aware of this at the time so this doesn’t necessarily clear him.

Lhuna and Eonwe – Eonwe doesn’t suspect Lhuna; Lhuna supects Eonwe on D2 but in the same post says she considers voting Lommy, Brinn or Boro, then on D4 Lhuna elaborates on her Eonwe suspicions and votes for him.

THE Ka and Eonwe – This gave me a headache. On D1 Eonwe says he likes Lommy and Ka so far, and is wary about Brinn agreeing with him on this. On D2 Eonwe points out Ka and Brinn as possible fellows, but also says she still seems good. On D3 he lists Ka under "concerned about" based on her Lottie vote and says he "could vote" her or Rune. Then on D4 he "feels better about Ka" due to Mac turning out innocent and lists her under "unsure, leaning good", but later the same Day he is wary of Lommy, THE Ka, and Brinn due to discussion over Legate. On D5 Ka suspects Shasta because he is defensive of Eonwe, Eonwe thinks this could implicate Ka and Shasta as fellows. Finally on D6 Eonwe lists Ka with two TBDs and one "bad" over lumping him and Shasta together, also calls her D2 vote "kind of bad". Later he starts suspecting Boro/Lottie/Shasta for framing him and Ka, then backtracks saying that if Ka is a wolf he needs to look elsewhere; votes Ka after she is already a goner. This is so messy that I don’t know what to think. Ka’s suspicion of Shasta based on him being defensive of Eonwe – while saying remarkably little about Eonwe himself – is very interesting. At the same time, I’m not sure an Eonwolf would really say he and Ka are innocents being framed by wolves in a situation where Ka looked like a very likely lynch. Also just in general, Eonwe's opinion on Ka flips and flops almost too much for them to be fellows; a careful Eonwolf would possibly try to decide whether to wolf-on-wolf and then stick with it rather than waver this much.

Other observations: The Shasta kill looks really bad on Eonwe, as it looked like Shasta was a wolf who had dreamed myself and Lottie as innocents, Ka as a wolf, and Eonwe as either another dreamed wolf or at the very least a likely next dream.


Kath
Possible match with all three.

Huin and Kath – Barely interact with each other.

Lhuna and Kath – Lhuna barely mentions Kath. On D1 Kath berates Lhuna for Nilping; on D3 says Lhuna would've been her second choice for lynchee due to her role in discussing Kit (voted Inzil); on D4 pre-votes Inzil or Lhuna, fifth to vote for Lhuna. I disagree with Eonwe’s conclusion that this vote is unlikely to be wolf-on-wolf. Kath had said for two Days that her top suspects were Inzil and Lhuna, so voting for anyone outside of those two would have raised eyebrows. By the time she voted, Inzil had one vote and Lhuna was in the lead with 4 votes to Eonwe’s 3. Voting for Inzil instead of Lhuna would have looked really fishy for her the next Day if Lhunawolf did end up lynched, which was beginning to look likely at that point. So fellows or no, I don’t think Kath had a choice but to follow up on her suspicion of Lhuna and vote for her.

THE Ka and Kath – barely interact with each other; on D2 Kath questions Ka on whether she actually suspects Lottie or not, then on D6 Kath votes for Ka after she is already a goner.

Other observations: Kath is doing a good job of contributing actively while keeping out of the spotlight. She does this regardless of role, but her lack of interaction with both Huin and THE Ka makes me pretty uneasy. The suspicion of Lhuna, while a lot more substantial, isn’t incompatible with being wolf-on-wolf, either – especially coupled with the fact that she kept Lhuna as a second choice behind Inzil, and that Lhuna doesn’t really mention Kath.

[A Little Green]

Based on the above (sorry for the length, but I think it'll be useful analysis fodder later on too), I'd be happiest with lynching Eonwe toDay, followed by Kath or Brinn; I agree with Lommy that the Shasta kill makes Eonwe our best lead. I don't necessarily agree that toDay is a wasted Day, though. Yes, there might be a Seer reveal at some point in the future, and yes, that might mean we'd end up speculating in vain, but having a ghost Day where people just pop in to vote Eonwe and leave gives us very little to go on for toMorrow. Even if we're right about Eonwe, there's still one more wolf out there, and I don't think we should just lie back and wait for the Seer to catch them for us.

[Thinlómien]

Reading Greenie's (very thoughtful) post, I realised I forgot Rune exists :rolleyes::D

Let's recapitulate. Wolf likelihood ranking imo:

1. Eönwë
---------------------
2. Brinniel
---------------------
3. Kath
4. Boro
5. Rune
---------------------
6. Greenie
7. Lottie


I agree with Lommy that the Shasta kill makes Eonwe our best lead. I don't necessarily agree that toDay is a wasted Day, though. Yes, there might be a Seer reveal at some point in the future, and yes, that might mean we'd end up speculating in vain, but having a ghost Day where people just pop in to vote Eonwe and leave gives us very little to go on for toMorrow. Even if we're right about Eonwe, there's still one more wolf out there, and I don't think we should just lie back and wait for the Seer to catch them for us. I agree very much in principle, but in practice I'm feeling a little lazy and I have been playing pretty intensely the whole game so if I'm ever gonna take half a Day off it's gonna be toDay. :D And I won't judge anyone else for doing the same, provided that (if they're alive) they're gonna be back in full steam toMorrow.

[Boromir88]

Mostly good: Lottie, Lommy, Kath, Brinn
Mixed: Greenie
Bad: Boro, Rune

Boro and Rune I already suspect, but I think moving forward it would be worth looking at Greenie more closely.

Interesting...well looking at your votes:

Day 1: Urwen
Day 2: Huey
Day 3: sally
Day 4: Boro
Day 5: Rune
Day 6: Ka

2 confirmed wolves, 2 confirmed innocents, 2 unknowns.

I don't give you credit for The Ka. That was an even more straight forward, organized lynch than Lhuna's. It's more possible wolf-on-wolf voting than anything else we've seen.

With that, I don't give you blame for sally, as everyone assumed wrong when she revealed.

You spent a lot of time yesterday assuming my guilt (after chastising me for doing the same thing earlier) and trying to steer us away from lynching a confirmed wolf, when in the end you voted for Ka, but at a time when it didn't matter

Aside from Huey, your voting is highly suspicious.

Two more wolves. It's gotta be Eonwe, and I'm almost positive the other one is Brinn. I don't want to go around counting any chickens, but I think we're in a good position here.~Lottie

I have a bit of pause here...The Ka's lynch was even more orderly than Lhuna's. The QT gave us Brinn, and we stuck with Shasta's suspicions. I don't think the 2 wolves would be giving up that easily if it was this simple. I think the clear choice of 1 wolf is Eonwe at the moment, but not entirely convinced Brinn is the last.

It could be Rune who has also been sending out seer clues for a few days and perhaps it's an Eonwe/Rune as the last 2. Rune going against Eonwe, and vice versa is their tactic to distance themselves and look favorably to us. I believe, 2 innocents lynched and that's all the wolves need. I pause with assuming Eonwe/Brinn, because yesterday's lynch of Ka looked too simple.

I don't even know if it matters, since the QT appears to like to toy with our votes more than the infectors...but for posterity.

+-Eonwe

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Based on the above (sorry for the length, but I think it'll be useful analysis fodder later on too), I'd be happiest with lynching Eonwe toDay, followed by Kath or Brinn; I agree with Lommy that the Shasta kill makes Eonwe our best lead. I don't necessarily agree that toDay is a wasted Day, though. Yes, there might be a Seer reveal at some point in the future, and yes, that might mean we'd end up speculating in vain, but having a ghost Day where people just pop in to vote Eonwe and leave gives us very little to go on for toMorrow. Even if we're right about Eonwe, there's still one more wolf out there, and I don't think we should just lie back and wait for the Seer to catch them for us.

I agree with you, but I think there might be a bit of fatigue in the village. Should one of the main suspects turn out innocent, then we would rue a wasted day.

Reading Greenie's (very thoughtful) post, I realised I forgot Rune exists :rolleyes::D

I get that a lot these days.


Let's recapitulate. Wolf likelihood ranking imo:

1. Eönwë
---------------------
2. Brinniel
---------------------
3. Kath
4. Boro
5. Rune
---------------------
6. Greenie
7. Lottie


I agree very much in principle, but in practice I'm feeling a little lazy and I have been playing pretty intensely the whole game so if I'm ever gonna take half a Day off it's gonna be toDay. :D And I won't judge anyone else for doing the same, provided that (if they're alive) they're gonna be back in full steam toMorrow.

I agree with the overall sentiment of your list, though I find that there isn't much separating 3-7 in suspicion/innocence level.

Mine would probably look like this:

1. Eönwë
2. Brinniel
3. Boro
4. Lottie
5. Kath
6. Lommy
7. Greenie

[Brinniel]

My dear village! It seems you could use the help of your Seer toDay.

ToDay and toMorrow are crucial Days, and I hope our brave seer is dabbling in maths as well as clairvoyance. But as long as they are in hiding, we have to use our little gray cells.

Well I did do the math, and considered revealing yesterDay. But once I saw the lynch moving towards The Ka, I decided I needed to risk waiting one more Day and luckily it paid off. Thank you Shasta for putting out seerish vibes and saving me from the wolves one more Night.

So the math...

We have 8 players. 4 ordos, 2 wolves, 1 seer, 1 innocent child.

The good news: I know who 3 out of 4 ordos are: Lommy, Eonwe, Greenie.
The better news: I know 1 out the 2 wolves.

++Kath

That means there is one more wolf hiding among Rune, Boro, and Lottie.

The Innocent Child can reveal herself to be the Innocent Child. In that case the Mod confirms the revelation.
So, if the innocent child comes out toDay, we can confirm the innocence of one more player. Then I can dream toNight and signal who the final wolf is toMorrow via the QT vote. We've got this village. :)

In case you're wondering about my dreams:

Night 1: Lommy
Night 2: Pitch
Night 3: Lhuna
Night 4: Shasta
Night 5: Eonwe
Night 6: Greenie
Night 7: Kath

[Loslote]

Let's recapitulate. Wolf likelihood ranking imo:

1. Eönwë
---------------------
2. Brinniel
---------------------
3. Kath
4. Boro
5. Rune
---------------------
6. Greenie
7. Lottie

I really like this way of ranking it. I completely agree, though I'd have Lommy at 6 and Greenie at 7 after the wolves took Shasta's Seer bait. I still think Brinn is the most likely fifth wolf, but I agree that Kath, Boro, or Rune could theoretically be possibilities. If it comes to that, maybe the Seer will be able to narrow down that choice for us some - but hopefully it doesn't come to that!

[Loslote]

My dear village! It seems you could use the help of your Seer toDay.

Well I did do the math, and considered revealing yesterDay. But once I saw the lynch moving towards The Ka, I decided I needed to risk waiting one more Day and luckily it paid off. Thank you Shasta for putting out seerish vibes and saving me from the wolves one more Night.

So the math...

We have 8 players. 4 ordos, 2 wolves, 1 seer, 1 innocent child.

The good news: I know who 3 out of 4 ordos are: Lommy, Eonwe, Greenie.
The better news: I know 1 out the 2 wolves.

++Kath

That means there is one more wolf hiding among Rune, Boro, and Lottie.

So, if the innocent child comes out toDay, we can confirm the innocence of one more player. Then I can dream toNight and signal who the final wolf is toMorrow via the QT vote. We've got this village. :)

In case you're wondering about my dreams:

Night 1: Lommy
Night 2: Pitch
Night 3: Lhuna
Night 4: Shasta
Night 5: Eonwe
Night 6: Greenie
Night 7: Kath

Incredible. Absolutely amazing. What a Seer game! I don't know about the wolves, but I didn't think it was you for one second. What a play! :D

++Kath

I am not the last wolf; my initial reaction would be to say that I don't think it's Boro, either, but I was so wrong about Eonwe, maybe it's not a great idea to trust that at this point! Still, I don't know why a Borowolf would give up control of the QT vote if he secretly knew he had it, so I would guess that the last wolf is Rune.

[Eönwë]

Those of you who are innocent: I urge you to talk more and actually have meaningful discussion toDay. When it turns out I'm innocent, you don't want to have realised you've wasted the Day's discussion as well as the vote.

edit: x-ed with Rune (I wrote this post and forgot to actually click 'submit')

[Thinlómien]

:eek::eek:

Amazing!

But, in all fairness, I'm gonna sit on this a sec and see if there's a counter reveal; I think it's the only prudent choice. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot, right?

Now I don't really see why a wolf!Brinn would choose to save a packmate Eönwë like this - frankly, if there's a competing reveal that says he's a wolf, everyone would rather believe that one. :p

But something's just very off about the Shasta kill.

Anyway, extremely clever suggestion about the QT which I also think a not-genuine seer would not make.

I need to think a sec and do maths.

[Eönwë]

Well done Brinn! I'm interested to see how the wolves react to this.

[Eönwë]

To those of you who did want to quarantine me, think about this: if you were an innocent and someone who very well may have made a wolf slip was pretending to be the seer and voted you two Days in a row (while a real Seer would have already checked by that point), wouldn't you you go after him once it was clear he was not?

And when, after this ended up backfiring, someone else posted seerishly but hinted at you also being a wolf, wouldn't you suspect that too, even if the person they voted for does look a bit suspicious to you?

I really don't see what the benefit would've been in doing any of this as a wolf, except for maybe a more toned-down and refined version of my first post against Boro yesterDay.

[Eönwë]

Let's do this then.

++Kath

[Thinlómien]

We're 8, including 2 wolves.

We lynch an innocent toDay? ToMorrow is Day7 - we are 6, including 2 wolves. We lynch a wolf, then on Day8 we are 4 including 1. We need to lynch a wolf again. (We don't lynch a wolf toDay or toMorrow, game over immediately. But frankly that's not possible.)

We lynch a wolf toDay? ToMorrow it's 6, including 1 wolf. We miss our shot? On Day8 we have still the 4 including 1 scenario.

So: in short, in order to win we have to lynch 2 wolves in 3 days. In other words, we can afford to mislynch once.

So: I don't think it would make sense for the wolves to fake seer reveal in this situation. Okay, maybe to "flush out the real seer" but what's really the chance at this point that the real seer 1) won't come out toDay anyway, 2) would survive the next Night in hiding?

I'm still quite baffled by this turn of events, probably because I still find it hard to believe Eönwë is innocent (really, the wolves have been killing people who suspected him for at least three Nights in a row. What's up with that?)

(Side note: Also recalling what I said about there having to be one wolf among Brinn-Boro-Eönwë. Hmm...)

Lastly - I did the maths, what Brinn says about the innocent child is foolproof, especially with the clever qt communication plan. The innocent child will not die if they come out in this case. (Of course if they're neurotic, they can do it very late toDay and wait if a more credible counter reveal appears. But I just don't know what would be a more believable counter reveal. I mean this reveal comes with a great innocent village plan that no sane wolf would spell out loud. MAYBE this could be a brilliant wolf move if the wolves would win if we mislynched toDay. But as it is? Highly doubt it. Stellar job from Brinn either way. :D)

Seriously this is a bit too good to be true?! If Brinn is legit, we just won???

:D

But yes, the innocent child has to come out for this to work. And there's no way the bad guys in the qt can mess this up either.

[Brinniel]

Incredible. Absolutely amazing. What a Seer game! I don't know about the wolves, but I didn't think it was you for one second. What a play!
Thank you! I did my best to leave clues but remain undetected. When dreamed of Lhuna, I made my suspicions of her clear, but I didn't want to be the driving force of her lynch, especially once that bandwagon took off. I never did dream of Inzil because if I was wrong about him, pulling a Legate180 could be too obvious to the wolves (sorry Inzil). I really thought I could be killed last Night after defending Eonwe's innocence, but they went for Shasta instead.

But something's just very off about the Shasta kill.
I was a little surprised about it. But my guess is they thought he was a seer who hadn't dreamt of Eonwe yet. If that's the case, then I think Lottie's more likely innocent.

I am not the last wolf; my initial reaction would be to say that I don't think it's Boro, either, but I was so wrong about Eonwe, maybe it's not a great idea to trust that at this point! Still, I don't know why a Borowolf would give up control of the QT vote if he secretly knew he had it, so I would guess that the last wolf is Rune.
My guess is Rune too, but I'm not going to completely discount the possibility of you or Boro being evil.

Seriously this is a bit too good to be true?! If Brinn is legit, we just won???
I think yeah, pretty much. That's why I had to come out toDay. :)

If the Innocent Child doesn't come out, we can technically afford a mislynch toMorrow if I don't dream a wolf. However, I can't understand why they wouldn't come out at this point.

[Boromir88]

But, in all fairness, I'm gonna sit on this a sec and see if there's a counter reveal; I think it's the only prudent choice. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot, right?


I'm not sure why there would be a counter reveal. The 2 remaining wolves need two innocents lynched to win.

So there is no sense in Brinnwolf faking seer now. If she is, then the real seer should still stay hidden, because lynching an innocent today wouldn't result in wolf victory

Lynch Kath today...

If wolf, then Brinn will surely be killed at night.

If Kath's innocent, then it's clear Brinn was lying and we lynch her tomorrow.

To Brinn, I would say think if who of the unknowns you're going to dream of tonight and lets set up a signal with the QT vote tomorrow.

Say you post before the end of day you're going to dream Lottie.

If Lottie turns up wolf, get the QT to vote Lottie. Game set match.

If Lottie turns up innocent, get the QT to vote for one of the confirmed/dreamed innocents and it would signal to us that you dreamed Lottie innocent. Because even with the QT and the 1 wolf, there would still be enough innocents to not lynch Lottie.

I don't think there's any way of wolves tampering with that signal.

Edit: crossed with Lommy and Brinn

[Kath]

Erm ... no I'm not? I'm mean I'm nothing exciting like the Seer or the Innocent Child either but I'm not a wolf.

I have no time toDay and just popped in to see what was happening. Wasn't expecting this! I'm not going to be around until near deadline now so I guess do what you have to do? The numbers are still on our side if an innocent is lynched toDay I believe so while I'd obviously rather we lynched a wolf toDay, if it's easier just to go for me then so be it.

[Thinlómien]

I have to say, what a game this has been. Absolutely insane and suspenseful. Also a beautiful demonstration that virtually anything can be done by either an innocent or a wolf. There's almost no foolproof logic to things. Also probably people who analyse Night kills might pay more attention than those who committed the Night kills in the first place.

Also did I personally learn anything? If I'm convinced someone's a wolf, they most likely are not. :rolleyes::D *blowing kisses to Mac, Sally, Inzil and Eönwë*

Wellll at least I got Lhuna and Ka and several of the innocents right........

Erm ... no I'm not? I'm mean I'm nothing exciting like the Seer or the Innocent Child either but I'm not a wolf.

I have no time toDay and just popped in to see what was happening. Wasn't expecting this! I'm not going to be around until near deadline now so I guess do what you have to do? The numbers are still on our side if an innocent is lynched toDay I believe so while I'd obviously rather we lynched a wolf toDay, if it's easier just to go for me then so be it. I'm sure you'd say this as a wolf with no time either, but thank you for not taking the fake reveal route. Even though it would have been entertaining. :p

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

My dear village! It seems you could use the help of your Seer toDay.


Well I did do the math, and considered revealing yesterDay. But once I saw the lynch moving towards The Ka, I decided I needed to risk waiting one more Day and luckily it paid off. Thank you Shasta for putting out seerish vibes and saving me from the wolves one more Night.

So the math...

We have 8 players. 4 ordos, 2 wolves, 1 seer, 1 innocent child.

The good news: I know who 3 out of 4 ordos are: Lommy, Eonwe, Greenie.
The better news: I know 1 out the 2 wolves.

++Kath

That means there is one more wolf hiding among Rune, Boro, and Lottie.


So, if the innocent child comes out toDay, we can confirm the innocence of one more player. Then I can dream toNight and signal who the final wolf is toMorrow via the QT vote. We've got this village. :)

In case you're wondering about my dreams:

Night 1: Lommy
Night 2: Pitch
Night 3: Lhuna
Night 4: Shasta
Night 5: Eonwe
Night 6: Greenie
Night 7: Kath

If this turns out to be true, and I don't see why it shouldn't, it means I have played the worst game ever. I mean, I will have been wrong about 95-100% of my suspicions...

I cannot see any logic in a wolf doing a fake reveal, as they would surely be lynched tomorrow. I guess if the wolves are Brinn and Eönwë it would buy them some time, but it really dosen't seem likely. So yeah, I am very much inclined to believe Brinn.

I am innocent. If Lottie is a wolf then she is ruthless, if Boromir is a wolf then he is very bold. Right now I am inclined to believe that the last wolf is Boromir, but I don't have anything in particular to back it up.

[A Little Green]

I think Shasta and Brinn just won us the game. :smokin:

Actually (smug moment) I did think Brinn was a possible Seer from Day 1. I mean, look at this -

Hey guys! I've come bearing gifts - masks, hand sanitizer, soap, and most importantly...toilet paper! Now I better see you all using these items - we wouldn't want to spread any diseases now, would we?
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts!

She literally started her first post of the game with "I come bearing gifts" - and what's even crazier, G55 actually noticed it and pointed it out under the guise of responding to banter. If anything, that exchange made me rather doubt whether Brinn could be the real Seer given that the wolves didn't kill her for it. Well played, hun!

As for the Shasta kill - I think it's possible that the wolves just pegged him as a possible Seer based on his comments about Ka, Lottie and me. To be honest, I first read his stuff about Eonwe as more like someone he suspected and was going to dream next, though admittedly still somewhat incriminating without the knowledge we now have. That whole thing still makes me think Lottie is innocent though, which leaves the last wolf to be Boro or Rune. I'm guessing Rune is the likelier candidate, though I'd still need to try and figure out whether Boro's non-reveal still makes sense as a wolf thing given Eonwe's innocence.

Last thing - smug moments re: Brinn and Kath notwithstanding, I was obviously wrong about Eonwe. Note to self: next time I have a feeling someone is innocent but my logic says they're not, I shouldn't listen to the logic because werewolf isn't a logical game. :rolleyes: Sorry Eonwe (not to mention Mac, Sally and Inzil - this hasn't been my brightest game ever :o), lesson learned.

Also might as well get this over with -

++Kath

[Thinlómien]

So no counter claim? How boring! I like fake reveals and hunter kills ;) and all kinds of other messy complications :p

++Kath

Now where's the innocent baby child whose head we all want to pat next for doing well and surviving? I have a guess, but given my track record of guessing anyone's roles (*compulsory side-eye at Boro* :p) in this game I think I'll spare myself further humiliation and just shut up...

[Brinniel]

To Brinn, I would say think if who of the unknowns you're going to dream of tonight and lets set up a signal with the QT vote tomorrow.

Say you post before the end of day you're going to dream Lottie.

If Lottie turns up wolf, get the QT to vote Lottie. Game set match.

If Lottie turns up innocent, get the QT to vote for one of the confirmed/dreamed innocents and it would signal to us that you dreamed Lottie innocent. Because even with the QT and the 1 wolf, there would still be enough innocents to not lynch Lottie.
Um, I was thinking less complicated than that. Like if the person I dream is innocent then I will not vote for them, but still vote for an unknown.

It would be nice to know who the innocent child is before I decide who to dream of, so I don't waste the dream on them. Anyone?

[Loslote]

Now where's the innocent baby child whose head we all want to pat next for doing well and surviving? I have a guess, but given my track record of guessing anyone's roles (*compulsory side-eye at Boro* :p) in this game I think I'll spare myself further humiliation and just shut up...

I think that's everyone! No counter reveal, so:

I am the Innocent Child.

[Thinlómien]

Um, I was thinking less complicated than that. Like if the person I dream is innocent then I will not vote for them, but still vote for an unknown.
Yeah this makes sense. Now the remaining unknowns are Boro and Rune, so when Brinn has had her dream she knows which one is which, and can just organise the cuties to vote the wolfy one.

I think that's everyone! No counter reveal, so:
I am the Innocent Child.Good job, little one! *pats head* :D

[Nogrod]

Yes.

Lottie is Lalaith, the Innocent Child.

[Loslote]

Good job, little one! *pats head* :D

Remember when Sally was going to hunt me and I didn't reveal? That was so stressful! :p

[Thinlómien]

Remember when Sally was going to hunt me and I didn't reveal? That was so stressful! :p:o:o

........well hey at least it made me consider you innocent..........

[Loslote]

Also, I totally might get Night killed for revealing here, but it's worth it if it allows Brinn to guarantee the win. :D

[Loslote]

:o:o

........well hey at least it made me consider you innocent..........

In the end, I decided it was less of a certain death to try to just persuade Sally than it would be to reveal that early. But it was one rough deadline. ;)

[Boromir88]

Um, I was thinking less complicated than that. Like if the person I dream is innocent then I will not vote for them, but still vote for an unknown.

It would be nice to know who the innocent child is before I decide who to dream of, so I don't waste the dream on them. Anyone?

Wasn't thinking about the Innocent Child revealing, just there being 3 unknowns and 1 wolf.

I think that's everyone! No counter reveal, so:

I am the Innocent Child.

Wish you had not felt the need to do that, giving Rune the chance to salvage one small victory. Ah, well it is done.

++Kath

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yes.

Lottie is Lalaith, the Innocent Child.

It’s official, I have been wrong about everything!

It will be nice to win, even if my contribution have been on par with a cobbler.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Kath

[Brinniel]

Lottie is Lalaith, the Innocent Child.
I suspected as much. Mainly because if Rune were the IC, I think he would've revealed when it looked like he might get lynched the other Day and I don't think an IC Boro would put a target on his back with his fake seer ploy.

And you know, I was kinda frustrated when Sally switched her hunt to Mac since he seemed more innocent to me at the time, but now I'm certainly glad she did!

So either Boro or Rune is our final wolf. Any preference on who I dream? Either way, the GT will find out who the wolf is before the end of toMorrow, but I'd love to hear opinions before I make my decision (which will be soon).

[Loslote]

Wish you had not felt the need to do that, giving Rune the chance to salvage one small victory. Ah, well it is done.

The only chance the remaining wolf has is hoping that his fellows in the QT can mess up the vote toMorrow. If Brinn lives, their fate is sealed. So I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that I will be Night killed.

On the other hand, you're the only other person who seemed to realize (or at least said) that the wolves might want to Night kill me as a consolation prize - which may point to your being a wolf after all. Glad Brinn is going to find out for sure, and I don't have to try to guess! :p

[Brinniel]

Also, I totally might get Night killed for revealing here, but it's worth it if it allows Brinn to guarantee the win.
I think it's more likely the last wolf will kill me toNight, but it's possible they'll choose you. Either way it's done - it's just a matter of whether the GT will need to wait for the QT vote or not.

[Boromir88]

So either Boro or Rune is our final wolf. Any preference on who I dream? Either way, the GT will find out who the wolf is before the end of toMorrow, but I'd love to hear opinions before I make my decision (which will be soon).

I don't think I'm included in this request for a preference. But I prefer Rune :)

I did provide cover and protect you from the infectors until yesterday. I hope that counts for something.

[Kath]

Oh you lot are no fun!

Alright ...

++KATH

And next time I play as a wolf I will go with my own blasted Seer feelings!! Soooo nearly had her ...

:smokin:

[Nogrod]

The Quarantine Thread has voted.

++ Kath


An unanimous vote so far.

[Brinniel]

I do have to say kudos to the baddies - spotting them was not easy and for me it was more of a process of elimination than anything. :cool:

I'm actually torn on who the final wolf is. Initially I was thinking Rune, but the last few posts from Boro has me questioning him again. But if he is a wolf, he would be a bold one indeed.

Okay, I have to run and will likely not be back before the end of the Day. So I'm going to dream of Boromir - just because I can't stand the idea of assuming him more likely innocent all this time and end up being wrong. :rolleyes:

If the final wolf kills me toNight, you'll hear from me via the QT. If Boro is evil the QT vote will be for him. If he's innocent, the QT vote will be for Rune. The QT will be 10-5 by toMorrow, so as long as the other quarantined innocent villagers show up and vote, I can't see how the baddies in the thread could mess it up.

That's all from me. Should I be quarantined, I'll see you on the other side. :smokin:

[Thinlómien]

Thank you, Brinn!

[Eönwë]

Thanks for everything Brinn!


Not that there's much point in having this discussion since based on our numbers it wouldn't have much effect, but I really couldn't help feeling while reading this that Boro was trying to find a way to muddy the signal and add an extra vote for an innocent with this:
If Lottie turns up innocent, get the QT to vote for one of the confirmed/dreamed innocents and it would signal to us that you dreamed Lottie innocent. Because even with the QT and the 1 wolf, there would still be enough innocents to not lynch Lottie.
Since Brinn mentioned it in her reveal post, I find this hard to believe this:
Wasn't thinking about the Innocent Child revealing, just there being 3 unknowns and 1 wolf.
In any case, Lommy and Brinn put a stop to it and unless two people were to miss out on the vote toMorrow, it still wouldn't be enough to get us to quarantine an innocent.


But maybe I was wrong about Boro all along and Rune's the wolf. It's easy to see evil when you already suspect it. We'll see soon enough.

[Boromir88]

Yes, thank you.

Will Boro be found innocent in the eyes of Brinn?
Will our heroes be saved from Morgoth’s Black Plague?
Will the Innocent survive?

Tune in next time, same Wight-time. Same Wight-channel

[Loslote]

Well, if the wolf decides to accept his fate and go for me out of spite, it's been a really, really fun game. :smokin:

[Nogrod]

After thinking over everything through and through for several times, Húrin knew what to do. It wasn’t an easy decision, but it was what he had to do. He called the survivors under the oak and addressed them.

“My dear friends and kinsmen. It is time I share with you my knowledge and my decision”.

There was a keen silence and all the eyes were fixed on him.

“Morgoth has spoiled some of us and they have been franticly searching for someone who was in turn aided by the forces of light. It only became clear to me little by little, that I was the one. Remember when I was convinced old Sador had fallen under the spell: it felt wrong to me as his lord and friend of so many years, but somehow I knew it. Now I know another and will come clear with it, whatever it might mean to me.”

People were confused, especially about the last sentence.

“Now that I’m in the open, the last one will come to me, and he has the power of Morgoth in him, which I’m afraid is too much for me to fight against. I mean how were these ordinary people able to overpower Huor? He’s a strong warrior and he was armed, but still they beat him.”

People glanced at each other starting to realize the sacrifice Húrin was making. But Húrin turned lovingly to his wife and child.

“It may be I could have had something to do in the wars to come, but here and now as your lord, I’m responsible to you: to my family, my friends, my kinsmen. I couldn’t live if I didn’t do this now, and would then have lost any more of you my friends.”

Morwen bit her lip and took her husband by the hand.

“So…” Húrin broke the uneasy silence. “Algund and Gethron, take Forweg. He’s the second last Infector.”

With that the big man turned and came yelling wildly towards Húrin, but Algund and Gethron were on him already. Forweg struggled but finally, with the help of both Aerin and Húrin himself, he was tied down and dragged to the Great Hall.

“I may not wake up healthy tomorrow, but I trust you can find out the last one – as I know, it is either good old blind Ragnir or sweet Aerin. Others of you I know are not infected by this monstrosity."

"But we will defend you, everyone, we all!" Morwen said determinatedly. "Aren't we?"

The others agreed in unison. Only one of them was not sincere.


~*~


Dead, yes dead

Nogrod – “The Badger”, the Mod (dead on Night1)
Urwen – Glóredhel, healthy person (withered away in grief during Day2)


Quarantined

Galadriel55 – Andróg, the Cobbler (voted into QT on Day1)
Rikae – Haldir, formerly healthy person (infected by the shady Infectors on Night2)
Huinesoron – Hareth, an Infector (voted into QT on Day2)
Kitanna – Huor, the Ranger (infected in the woods by the Infectors on Night3)
Sally – Túrin, the Hunter (voted into QT on Day3)
Macalaure – Grithnir, healthy person (dragged into the QT by the Hunter on Day3)
Legate of Amon Lanc – Asgon, healthy person (infected sneakily on Night4)
Lhunardawen – Sador, an Infector (voted into QT on Day4)
Lalaith – Rían, healthy person (overrun and infected by the Infectors on Night5)
Inziladun – Halmir, healthy person (voted into QT on Day5)
Pitchwife – Turin’s Nurse, healthy person (infected by the Infectors on Night6)
THE Ka – Indor, an Infector (voted into QT on Day6)
Shastanis Althreduin – Brandir, healthy little child (outrageously infected on Night7)
Kath – Forweg, an Infector (unanimously quarantined on Day7)


Hanging around

Thinlómien
Loslote
A Little Green
Boromir88
Brinniel
Eönwë
Rune Son of Bjarne



It’s now Night 8


... and it is dark.

[Nogrod]

As the night fell the villagers gathered around a great fire under the village oak. Húrin and Morwen sat side by side beside the great old tree. Next to them on one side sat Algund and on the other Gethron, both soldiers looking grave but alert, their eyes intensely on the two people on the opposite side of the fire. Blind Ragnir seemed to look at nowhere like he did, and Aerin looked anguished.

Three years old Lalaith didn’t stand the silence and grimness of the situation she didn’t quite understand. She was not content to sit on her mother’s or father’s lap but wanted to go on running around, or sitting in either Ragnir’s or Aerin’s lap like she had used to. Her parents allowed her to climb in the tree for a while but even that fun didn’t last long. Finally, after a few hours of shared inconvenience for everyone – as there was nothing else to do or say for anyone around the fire but to follow her frustration and childish energy only slowly wearing out – she fell asleep in Morwen’s lap.

There was an awkward silence.

Suddenly Algund turned his head towards the gate. “Did you hear that?”, he whispered as the others tried to see into the darkness. “There is movement there”, Gethron said softly reaching silently for his bow.

“Orcs. This is no coincidence…” Húrin muttered between his teeth. He turned to Morwen. “Take Lalaith out from here”, he hissed, “But not to the Guesthouse or anyway far… Sador’s hut… that’s just around the corner, it has a sturdy door which can be bolted from inside”

Morwen looked startled, but still managed to look at her husband stoutly in the eyes, holding sleeping little Lalaith tighter to her bosom. She nodded.

“Go now, But go quietly” he leaned lightly towards her and kissed her shortly on the forehead. Morwen started backing away slowly and quietly.

“Whatever happens, you two, don’t leave my sight”, he said then to Ragnir and Aerin, quietly but clearly. “Fight for your life, but don’t try anything. Algund, Gethron or I myself will put killing either of you in front of any orc-bussiness, if one of you tries to sneak away.” With that he glanced at the two warriors. They nodded back to their lord.

Húrin threw his knife to Aerin. “I know you don’t carry a weapon, but it’s your right to fight for your life.”

Then the orcs were upon them.


~*~

An orc raiding-party, deserters from war, a few self-nominated brigands… whatever they were, it was clear to Húrin, Morgoth had his fingers in this. Of all the nights they broke into their village this night.

It was hard to say how many they were, but Húrin didn’t care of their numbers. He was ready to kill a hundred if it needed be so.

“Four on the left!” Gethron yelled while releasing his first arrow.

“At least six straight ahead!” called Algund drawing his blade.

“Fall back”, Húrin said sternly to Ragnir and Aerin. “You don’t want to receive the first blow”. Before rushing forwards with his sword he glanced the two one more time. “You watch each other as tightly as you watch these vile creatures! Defend, but don’t try to run away! I’ll be watching you. Even save you if I can.”

Gethron managed a second arrow before he had to draw his axe.

Algund was clearly shorthanded against several orcs – and Húrin flew to aid him.
Suddenly, as the battle had just begun, the orcs seemed to vanish in thin air. A black whirlwind blew through them and also Ragnir and Aerin were both gone.

Just as Húrin yelled his warriors to hurry back, there was a real enough orc-club hitting him in the back. He heard Algund roaring “My lord!” and then everything went black.


~*~

Morwen rushed towards Sador’s hut when she heard the fight start. Her blood ran cold but she forced herself to continue running even if she felt she was tripping in her dress with every step she made. Tears in her eyes she tried to reach the hut as fast as possible. Open the door. Bolt it behind you. Get into cover inside. Defend your sunshine. Defend the light of men. Fight like a shewolf.

Lalaith had woken up. She was wriggling in her arms trying to get free from her grip. “No Lalaith, not now! We need to make it to the hut!”

All of a sudden, just a few yards away from the hut, something or someone grasped her legs and she fell face on to the ground, partly stumbling to her own feet.
“Lalaith!” she cried as she fell down and felt her grip loosen form her child.

The last thing she was conscious of, before she was hit in the back with a knife, was Lalaith screaming, sounding more confused than afraid.


~*~

There weren’t that many orcs after all. Maybe a half a dozen. When the phantoms of Morgoth disappeared, Algund and Gethron had only two real ones to deal with. Rushing back they ran into blind Ragnir standing alone with his small blade in the darkness shaking all over. Húrin was down but seemed alive. Gethron stayed with their lord with Ragnir while Algund rushed towards Sador’s hut.

There he found Morwen lying on the ground face down and bleeding heavily from a wound on her back.

“Where is the Laughter?”, he yelled so loud Morwen came to her senses.

“Lalaith!” she cried out. “Someone took her…”, she added murmured, trying to force herself up. With the help of the old soldier, Morwen managed to get up to her feet and they limped slowly towards the Great Hall. Gethron and Ragnir had dragged Húrin there as well.

The door of the Great Hall opened slowly. Aerin stepped to the doorway holding Lalaith in her arms.

“You won this fight. But Morgoth took your hope of a future with his failure.”
With that she closed the door – it was all over.



Left healthy and alive in the end

Brinniel – Húrin
Thinlómien – Morwen
A Little Green - Algund
Eönwë - Gethron
Rune Son of Bjarne – Blind Ragnir


The Quarantined

Galadriel55 – Andróg, the Cobbler (voted into QT on Day1)
Rikae – Haldir, formerly healthy person (infected by the shady Infectors on Night2)
Huinesoron – Hareth, an Infector (voted into QT on Day2)
Kitanna – Huor, the Ranger (infected in the woods by the Infectors on Night3)
Sally – Túrin, the Hunter (voted into QT on Day3)
Macalaure – Grithnir, healthy person (dragged into the QT by the Hunter on Day3)
Legate of Amon Lanc – Asgon, healthy person (infected sneakily on Night4)
Lhunardawen – Sador, an Infector (voted into QT on Day4)
Lalaith – Rían, healthy person (overrun and infected by the Infectors on Night5)
Inziladun – Halmir, healthy person (voted into QT on Day5)
Pitchwife – Turin’s Nurse, healthy person (infected by the Infectors on Night6)
THE Ka – Indor, an Infector (voted into QT on Day6)
Shastanis Althreduin – Brandir, healthy little child (outrageously infected on Night7)
Kath – Forweg, an Infector (unanimously quarantined on Day7)
Loslote – Lalaith, a totally innocent and healthy villager (kidnapped by the last Infector on Night8)
Boromir88 – Aerin, an Infector (self-surrendered in the end of Night8)


~*~


THE GAME IS OVER


VILLAGE WIN!

THE INFECTORS CLAIM THE CONSOLATION PRIZE.



What a game this was!

And it earned a decent finish instead of withering away slowly. Thanks to Boro for wishing to make it thus.



I suggest we should have the discussion in the “Discussion Thread”, but whatever and where-ever. Let’s try to keep it in one Thread anyway. That means Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=19389)



PS. Well, it was not exactly “all over”. The people in the quarantine were just ill – or some even healthy. One can recover from illness and one can get infected if hanging with people who are already ill, and surely, some people die from illness while others don’t.

I did the “behind the scenes” epidemiological survey to find out what happened to everyone.

Coming in a moment...

[Nogrod]

What happened to everyone who were put on the quarantine?

Well, here's what happened.


Andróg (G55) might have his leanings, but he was healthy when he got into the QT and stayed so until D4 when he got ill by Hareth (Huinesoron). Somehow he fell really deep into the sickness, getting deeper into it, like triple-infection, both on N&D5. He never recovered from that and was banished from the village – to make a career as an outlaw.

The first actually infected person to enter the QT was Haldir (Rikae) for 9 consecutive Days/Nights before she gor better. He didn’t infect anyone, but there were questions asked afterwards, whether he should have fought more valiantly in the Nirnaeth….

Hareth (Huinesoron) did infect Asgon (Legate), but otherwise was unsuccessful in her attempts to spread the virus. In the end she recovered only just and just to see her sons flourish and then wither away.

Huor (Kitanna) got infected a double infection immediately on arrival, and more on D4 and N8. He was also sadly responsible for infecting old Halmir who later died into his illness and never saw the battlefield again. Huor did miraculously survive seeing Aerin and Lalaith coming in and gathered all his spiritual energy to save the little Lalaith from infection. After the recovery he was only a shell of his former self and died in a less glorified manner in Nirnaeth.

Túrin (Sally) stayed well from the very first Night he was put into the Quarantine and never felt any symptoms of the disease. Unfathomable are the ways of Valar.

Grithnir (Macalaure) got infected one Night and one Day after he was quarantined against anyone’s will on Day3 by Túrin. He was well built and strong though, and even if he didn’t exactly get well during the time of our story, he did incidentally recover from the illness – to pay it back by helping Túrin in his adventures.

Asgon (Legate) was infected by Night but as a steadfast warrior got over it in relatively short time. So he was able to help Túrin later on, like the original legendarium tells us.

Poor old Sador (Lhuna) showed some decent resistance against Morgoth’s spells and did actually get fine in a few days. With Túrin and Huor he was one of those who were locked in the QT for the longest being heatlhy.

Rían (Lalaith) did indeed fight for her life, being very ill all the time believing her husband would die. She did survive in the end upon hearing Haldir had gotten better against all odds. She committed a suicide after news from Nirnaeth and Haldir’s final death spread to Brethil Woods.

Old Halmir (Inziladun) entered the QT healthy, but got the infection from Huor. It was a sad business indeed. Like Morgoth himself had planned it. Being too old and weak, Halmir never entered a battlefield again after this episode. Sadly his son and heir wasn’t able to fill his place in Nirnaeth and the results were that much worse.

Túrin’s Nurse (Pitchwife) was a healthy young woman and fought the illness over in a couple of days coming out fresh and clean, ready to take care of the children once again.

Indor (THE Ka) was too old and weak to resist Morgoth’s spell and even if everyone tried their best he did in the end die on it. A little prematurely maybe, but not long before it would have been his time anyway.

Brandir (Shasta) was a little child, and his body just pushed the virus away, like a child forgets a bad thing when seeing ice-cream (like meeting healthy Túrin inside to play with).

Forweg (Kath) had been under Morgoth’s spell for a long time, but he was a stout man and did away with it quite easily. Some people still think that his later destinies were tied into this little incident. Otherwise he might have been counted among the heroes of men, instead of being remembered just as a decent outlaw.

Lalaith (Lottie) went into the QT forced by Aerin, but she laughed all the way – and rejoiced even more meeting her brother there – and Brandir – and if there was a sign of an infection in her by Aerin, she did recover from it astonishingly fast and without notice.

Aerin (Boro) had a strong will and recovered in the end – even if it took time. She was thus able to help Morwen in the future and was an instrumental part of the story of the Children of Húrin.