6 Degrees of Separation

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Ted Sandyman -> Sam Gamgee -> Merry Brandybuck -> Eowyn

[Manardariel]

Yes Sophia, that´ll work. Though my answer would have been Ted Sandyman-> Gaffer Gamgee ->Black rider ->Lord of the Nazgul> Eowyn

Thought that IS way to long.

smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Aldarion-> Belladonna Took

NOT using Elrond or Gandalf smilies/evil.gif:

Sophia

[Beren87]

Aldarion (Oromë)-Amran-Fëanor-Galadriel-Frodo-Bilbo-Belladonna Took

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Er, no, Beren... Aldarion as in Aldarion and Erendis. Orome's name was Aldaron.

Sophia

[Lindolirian]

Aldarion-> Gil-Galad-> Cirdan-> Bilbo-> Belladonna Took

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Perfect Lindolirian. smilies/wink.gif

Sophia

[Lindolirian]

Ingold-> Hunthor

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Ingold -> Gandalf -> The Balrog -> Morgoth -> Glaurung -> Hunthor

[Lindolirian]

That works, but try not to use Gandalf.

Try not to use Gandalf, Saurman,or Sauron if it can be helped. These people have a link to just about everybody.

[The Saucepan Man]

OK, how about:

Ingold -> Pippin -> Galadriel -> Melian -> Turin -> Hunthor

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

I see.

[Lindolirian]

Exactly what I had, Saucepan Man!

[The Saucepan Man]

Yes, those Elves who managed to survive the First Age do tend to come in handy in this game. smilies/wink.gif

Damrod -> Mardil

Using no Elves. smilies/evil.gif

[Lindolirian]

Damrod-> Frodo-> Lord of the Nazgûl-> King Ëarnur-> Mardil

[The Saucepan Man]

Oops, I had overlooked Frodo's little run-in with the Witch-King on Weathertop. I had Faramir and Eowyn instead. smilies/rolleyes.gif

So, you got it in one less than me, lindol. Well done. smilies/smile.gif

[Lindolirian]

Celegorm-> Tar-Palantir

No elves! Except for Celegorm, of course. smilies/wink.gif

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

Dang, Lind... you have me utterly stumped. I can only do it if I use Sauron, and technically I'm not supposed to use him either. But here is what I have:

Celegorm -> Orome -> Aule -> Sauron -> Ar-Pharazon -> Tar-Palantir

Sophia

[Lindolirian]

Hmmm, well I did use Sauron in mine. However there's a quicker way. smilies/wink.gif

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Celegorm -> Celembrimbor -> Gil-Galad -> Elendil -> Tar-Palantir, perhaps.

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Well?

[Telchar]

Celegorm -> Beren or Luthien -> Sauron -> Ar-Pharazon -> Tar-Palantir

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Since my original answer was lost in the last page, I'll give it again (the last time being done over a week ago smilies/smile.gif):

Celegorm -> Celembrimbor -> Gil-Galad -> Elendil -> Tar-Palantir.

No Sauron allowed, I believe, Telchar. smilies/wink.gif

[Telchar]

You should pay more attention to the question at hand windlord smilies/wink.gif

Celegorm-> Tar-Palantir

No elves! Except for Celegorm, of course.

Hmmm, well I did use Sauron in mine.

Which makes your answer obsolete as you use Celebrimbor ;o)

[Lindolirian]

Sorry for the late reply. I have been occupied with the combination of marching band and the start of school recently. Telchar has the correct answer with: Celegorm -> Beren or Luthien -> Sauron -> Ar-Pharazon -> Tar-Palantir.

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Ah, I get the feeling you're all ganging up on me... smilies/smile.gif my mistake, then.

[Telchar]

Shelob ---> Galadriel

Just, please dont use any mortals. That is orcs, dwarves, men and hobbits.

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Easy. smilies/smile.gif

Shelob --> Ungoliant --> Morgoth --> Fingolfin --> Finarfin --> Galadriel. No mortals involved.

[Telchar]

Yep indeed - go on!

[The Saucepan Man]

Well done, Gwaihir. smilies/smile.gif As a reward, you may have the privilege of asking the next question on a new thread. This one is being closed as a result of its length.

[The Saucepan Man]

Since the previous thread was closed as a result of its length, I have opened this new one so that the game may continue.

The rules (originally devised by none other than the Barrow-Wight himself) are as follows:

Two names are given. You must trace a connection from the first name, through various other names, to the second name. When tracing from one name to another there must have been interaction or implied interaction in the novels between the two charcters. Also, a link can me made between names if the two characters are immediately related to each other (child, parent, spouse).

Example 1:
Frodo -- Grishnakh
The answer would be:
Frodo -- Pippin (or Merry) -- Grishnakh
direct interection in all links

Example 2:
Frodo -- Mauhur
The answer would be:
Frodo -- Pippin (or Merry) -- Ugluk --- Mauhur
direct -- dirrect -- direct -- indirect

Example 3:
Legolas -- Bard
The answer would be:
Legolas -- Thranduil -- Bard
related -- direct intereaction

Remember... to trace from a name to a name they must have interacted, most likely interacted, or be related to each other.

NOTE: There may be more than one answer. When creating a puzzle, try to make it so there is only one way to trace between the two names. This will be tricky.

ANOTHER NOTE: Someone like Eru is not a valid link unless we are linking Valar or something. And then Eru wouldn't be necessary since the Valar all knew each other well.

YET ANOTHER NOTE: Ask for a maximum number of links to trace the difference between two characters. For instance, in the Frodo to Mauhur example you would have to figure it out using no more than 3 links.

Extra Note: Try not to use Gandalf, Saruman or Sauron if it can be helped. These people have a link to just about everybody.


So, without further ado, may I call upon Gwaihir the Windlord (who successfully solved the last question on the previous thread) to start us off.

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

I'm here....

A fairly easy one; but this time, as a reversal of the last question, I would ask you only to use mortals (apart from the two names given...)

Galadriel -> Landroval

[Lindolirian]

Galadriel-> Gwaihir-> Landroval

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

smilies/smile.gif I'm not counting Eagles as mortals, which they probably aren't. Sorry, try again...

[Joy]

Galadriel -> Gandalf -> Gwahir -> Landroval

or

Galadriel -> Frodo/Sam -> Landroval

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

Well, you're not allowed to use Gandalf; but the second one is of course correct. Go ahead.

[Joy]

Fëanor -> Halbarad (the Dúnedan)

[Telchar]

Fëanor - Galadriel - Gimli - Halbarad

[Joy]

That is correct, but not exactly how I had in mind smilies/biggrin.gif

I had Fëanor -> Galadriel -> Aragorn -> Halbarad

[Tulkas the Mighty]

Telchar?

[Telchar]

Finwe ---> Samwise

... Please dont use any elves... smilies/wink.gif

[The Laurenendorian]

Finwë -> Oromë -> Irmo -> Olórin -> Samwise

Or does the "don't use Gandalf" rule kick in here?

If we're not allowed to use elves, then I think we have to go to an Ainu from Finwë.

Perhaps: Finwë -> Ulmo -> Tuor -> Eärendil -> Elrond -> Samwise
I'm not sure if Eärendil and Elrond count as elves or not.

[The Saucepan Man]

Or how about:

Finwë -> Ulmo -> Samwise

... since the stream that Frodo and Sam find in Mordor is, I believe, said to have been sent by Ulmo. smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif

[Telchar]

Is there actually any reference to Finwe meeting either Orome or Ulmo? I can't remember?

Mine looked simpler: Finwe - Melkor - Sauron - Witchking - Merry/frodo - Samwise

or the Palantir solution:
Finwe - Melkor - Sauron - Saruman/Pippin/Aragorn - Samwise

[Telchar]

You're both quick... Laurenendorian gets it! smilies/smile.gif


... since the stream that Frodo and Sam find in Mordor is, I believe, said to have been sent by Ulmo.

I never heard that - interesting Saucepans - still thats a little far off for contact, don't you think smilies/wink.gif

[ 07:31 PM November 25, 2003: Message edited by: Telchar ]

[The Laurenendorian]

Finwë certainly met Oromë, since he led the hosts to Valinor.

---

Link Fíriel to the other Fíriel. I think I can do it in 5.

[Lindolirian]

Fíriel-> Sam-> Glorfindel(or Elrond)-> Malbeth-> Arvedui-> Fíriel

[ 07:56 PM November 25, 2003: Message edited by: Lindolirian ]

[The Laurenendorian]

Is good.

[Lindolirian]

Dairuin-> Hamfast

No Sauron or Gandalf.

[Telchar]

Dairuin-> Beren-> Melian-> Galadriel-> Frodo-> Hamfast

Dairuin-> Beren-> Celegorm -> Elrond-> Frodo-> Hamfast

The latter is the coolest as it dont use any Maiar smilies/wink.gif

[Lindolirian]

The first one was the closest, but you were right in the fact that there are no Maiar involved. Try again!

[Telchar]

Lindo - am I wrong because you can do it in 5 or 4 ?

[Lindolirian]

No, you know what, I'll just give it to ya. Your's were fine anyway. No reason for me to put all sorts of limitations on it. Go ahead!

[Telchar]

Ibun ---> Inzilbêth

[Telchar]

Ibun -> X -> X -> X -> X -> X -> Inzilbêth

With a little good will it can be done like that ... is that 5 or 7 degrees ???

[ 6:16 PM December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Telchar ]

[Lindolirian]

Ibun-> Tùrin-> Glaurung-> Sauron-> Ar-Pharazôn-> Ar-Gimilzôr-> Inzilbêth

I have always considered the "->" to be one degree of separation. This one is six degrees, seven people.

[Telchar]

Nice work - you can go on...

on a sidenote: what do you think is the likelyhood that Pharazon and Inzilbêth met? Her being the grandmother of Tar-Miriel... We can asume that Pharazon was older than her and of close famely to Inzilbeth - som maybe you could cut Gimilzôr out?

Secondly we can only asume that Glaurung and sauron met... right?

[Lindolirian]

True, I didn't think of that... smilies/rolleyes.gif

Zamin-> Estelmo

[Telchar]

Zamin-> Aldarion -> Gil-galad -> (Elendil) -> Estelmo

We can assume that Estelmo being the esquire of the eldest son of Isildur and having joined in the battle against Sauron would have met Gil-galad. Therefore we might be able to leave out Elendil.

[Lindolirian]

Very good Telchar!

[Telchar]

Lotho ---> Thranduil

NO Hobbits!
NO Maier/ainur
Only one human
Only one elf

[Lindolirian]

Lotho-> Ruffian*-> Squint-eyed Southerner**-> Lord of the Nazgûl-> (Nazgûl shot down over Sarn Gebir)-> Legolas-> Thranduil

*who called Frodo a "cockawhoop"
**half orc at Prancing Pony

[Telchar]

Sorry, but no! Ruffians and Nazgul are both mannish in orgin. Try again.

It can actually be done with one regular human and one regular elf.

[The Saucepan Man]

Lotho-> Wormtongue-> Legolas -> Thranduil

One man, one Elf, keep moving. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Telchar]

Precisely Saucepans - my elf was Celeborn, but I forgot to put a restriction angainst 'direct family' - you can continue!

[The Saucepan Man]

Cheers Telch. smilies/smile.gif

Sheesh! It's getting hard to think these up. So here's a fairly easy one.

Glaurung -> Ancalagon

Assuming that Glaurung and Ancalagon were not themselves acquainted. smilies/wink.gif

And no Elves or Ainur.

[Telchar]

Is it as simple as:

Glaurung -> Turin -> Tuor -> Earendil -> Ancalagon ?

[The Saucepan Man]

No. Turin and Tuor never met, and are not immediately related in the sense required by the rules.

[Lindolirian]

Actually Túrin and Tuor did meet at the ruin of Ivrin:
"Thus only for a moment, and never again, did the paths of those kinsmen, Túrin and Tuor, draw together."

And just in case that doesn't make Telchar's answer legit, I have one of my own.

Glaurung-> Mablung-> Fingolfin-> Thorondor-> Ancalagon

Mablung was at the Mereth Aderthad with Fingolfin and Thorondor carried Fingolfin's body away from the duel at the Gates of Angband.

[Telchar]

Glaurung-> Turin-> Hurin-> Thorondor-> Ancalagon

really long :

Glaurung-> Turin-> Hurin-> Huor -> Tuor -> Earendil -> Ancalagon

[The Saucepan Man]

Thus only for a moment, and never again, did the paths of those kinsmen, Túrin and Tuor, draw together.

Being in the same vicinity doesn't count as interaction for me. I'm not sure that they were even aware of each other, were they?

Of course, if I was being really mean, I could rule Thorondor out as possibly being a Maia. smilies/evil.gif smilies/wink.gif

But I won't, so Lindol has it (although you gave the two formulations that I had, Telchar). Plese proceed, Lindolirian. smilies/smile.gif

[Telchar]

Please:
And no Elves or Ainur.
Glaurung-> Mablung-> Fingolfin-> Thorondor-> Ancalagon
But I won't, so Lindol has it (although you gave the two formulations that I had, Telchar). Plese proceed, Lindolirian.

You're forgetting your own restrictions Saucepanman + If my last one was actually made to fit the thought that Thorondor might be considered a maiar-spirit - wherefore I stand by:

Glaurung-> Turin-> Hurin-> Huor -> Tuor -> Earendil -> Ancalagon

Which does not in ANY way contain ainur OR LET ME SEE TWO ELVES ????
smilies/biggrin.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

By Jove, you are right old chap! I knew that there was a reason for me placing a restriction on those dratted Elves. smilies/rolleyes.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

Sorry, Lindol, but Telchar has the right of it. smilies/smile.gif

[Telchar]

Cemendur -> Lobelia

... any which way you want!

[Lindolirian]

Cemendur-> Meneldil-> Isildur-> Elrond-> Bilbo-> Lobelia

BTW good catch there Telchar. I hadn't checked this thread until now, so I didn't even know I "had" it. Phooey... forgot about dem dang Elves smilies/wink.gif

[Telchar]

Yeah smilies/biggrin.gif Dang elves! You are of course correct - go on.

[Lindolirian]

Lomion->Ondoher
No Ainur

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:34 PM December 11, 2003: Message edited by: Lindolirian ]

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Lomion->Idril->Eärendil->Elrond-?>Arvedui->Ondoher

-?> = a questionable link. smilies/cool.gif

[Lindolirian]

Nope. This one has the full six separations. (->) Seven people.

[Finwe]

Lomion -> Idril -> Eärendil -> Elrond -> Valandil -> Arvedui -> Ondoher

[Lindolirian]

O sure... I'll let ya have it. Its not quite the one I had, but go ahead.

[Finwe]

Ok...hmm... this one is going to be a bit snarky.

Turin -> Dior

[Lindolirian]

Snarky? There must be some limitations that you forgot because it's as easy as
Turin-> Thingol-> Luthien-> Dior

or a more "snarky" version:
Turin-> Morwen-> Baragund-> Barahir-> Beren-> Dior

[Lord of Angmar]

This falls under the definition of a stagnant thread, correct, since "no response has been given by the question setter to the last answer" for at least 10 days?

I assume Lindolirian's answer is correct, but I shall ask a new one:

Mim --> Elwing

[Amanaduial the archer]

Mim-> Turin-> Thingol ->Luthien-> Dior-> Elwing

?

[Lord of Angmar]

Yes, that is what I was looking for. smilies/smile.gif You could have left out Luthien, too, since Dior is Thingol's heir.

Your turn.

[Amanaduial the archer]

*Shrugs* It seemed better to have six, just bearing in mind the title smilies/smile.gif

Feanor-> Dior

[Ruitha]

Feanor -> Galadriel -> Celeborn -> Galathil -> Nimloth -> Dior??

[Amanaduial the archer]

Not the way I was looking for but yes, that works.

Your turn smilies/smile.gif

[Ruitha]

*grins* ... hehe, just realised I could've done that one with 3 names rather than that roundabout way ... okay, um, thinking...

[Ruitha]

Miriel (the daughter of Tar-Palantir) -> Eilinel

maximum of 5 names...

[Lord of Angmar]

Well we are supposed to avoid the use of Sauron, since he is connected with almost everyone, so this could be more than a little bit tricky. Actually, now that I look at it, I do not think I can do it without using Sauron. If I did use him, it would look something like this

Miriel->Ar-Pharazon->Sauron->Barahir->Eilinel

Otherwise, I am stumped.

[Ruitha]

Ah! Sorry, I forgot about not using Sauron ... didn't read the rules carefully enough. smilies/wink.gif Yeah, yours was the same as mine, save that I replaced Barahir with Gorlim. Go ahead. smilies/smile.gif
(Sorry again! Just like me to mess up the first one I do on this thread...)

[Lord of Angmar]

Don't worry about it Ruitha smilies/smile.gif , the first five or six times I attempted to post in the "Quiz Room" or "Quotable Quotes," I was informed by a more knowledgeable member of the Barrow Downs that I had, in fact, violated Forum Policy. Yours however, was not a very grievous mistake since it simply says try not to use Sauron, Gandalf or Saruman.

Here's mine:

Deorwine-->Dwalin

[Finwe]

Deorwine -> Eomer -> Theoden -> Merry -> Frodo -> Bilbo -> Dwalin

Will that work?

[Lord of Angmar]

Not exactly what I was looking for, since I do not know if Bilbo had any direct relationship with Dwalin, and since that is seven people. Keep trying! smilies/smile.gif

[Ruitha]

Deorwine -> Eomer -> Aragorn -> Gimli -> Gloin -> Dwalin?

[Lord of Angmar]

Good job, Ruitha! That works well enough.

The one I had thought of was:

Deorwine-->Theoden-->Aragorn-->Bilbo-->Balin-->Dwalin

Your turn.

[Ruitha]

Okay, try:
Urwen -> Sam
Maximum of 7 names, and no Elves, eagles, or dragons...

[nobody]

Urwen->Húrin->Morgoth->Ungoliant->Shelob->Sam

[Ruitha]

Same one as me. smilies/smile.gif Go ahead!

[nobody]

Irimë->Forthwini
2 immortal people only and as many mortals as you like...

[Lord of Angmar]

Irime-->Maglor-->Elrond-->Aragorn-->Eomer-->Forthwini

Does that work?

[Lindolirian]

Irimë-> Fingolfin-> Thorondor-> Gwaihir-> Nazgul-> Wainriders-> Forthwini

[nobody]

Lord of Angmar,that's three immortals (Irimë, Fingolfin, Elrond)
LindolirianI don't think Thorondor and the Nazgûl are mortal (the latter used to be, but they're just as immortal as the elves although in slightly different ways).

[Lord of Angmar]

Lord of Angmar,that's three immortals (Irimë, Fingolfin, Elrond)

Well, it was Maglor, not Fingolfin. I was under the impression that you meant two immortals besides Irime, since I have have to use her. Lindolirian's answer at any rate was probably better, except that you are only allowed to use six people including the original two, and he used seven.

How about:
Irime-->Galadriel-->Aragorn-->Eomer-->Forthwini

[nobody]

Yes I meant Maglor. Your answer is exactly what I was thinking of.

[Lord of Angmar]

Sador-->The Sackville-Bagginses

[nobody]

Sador->Húrin->Turgon->Eärendil->Elrond->Bilbo->The Sackville-Bagginses.

[Lord of Angmar]

Nice try, but that would be Seven Degrees of Separation. smilies/wink.gif

[nobody]

Oh I thought the 6 thing meant 6 ->s.

[Lindolirian]

Irime-->Galadriel-->Aragorn-->Eomer-->Forthwini

First of all, how is Éomer connected to Forthwini besides the fact that Forthwini was a VERY distant ancestor of Éomer's?

Also...
Oh I thought the 6 thing meant 6 ->s.

Yes, that had been agreed upon earlier. See page 1, posts 24 and 25 on that matter... it seems logical enough for me.

[Ruitha]

Um, if this is still going,

Sador -> Turin -> Melian -> Galadriel -> Frodo -> the Sackville-Bagginses....?

[Lord of Angmar]

Nice job, Ruitha. The one I had formulated was:

Sador-->Turin-->Finrod Felagund-->Galadriel-->Frodo-->S.B.'s

Your go.

[Ruitha]

Okay, try Earnur -> Frodo. Don't use the Witch-King. smilies/wink.gif This one should be very short.

[Lord of Angmar]

This is quite challenging... Perhaps:

Earnur-->Saruman-->Treebeard-->Merry (or Pippin)-->Frodo

[Ruitha]

Well, you're not really meant to use Saruman ... (I've learned the rules now. smilies/wink.gif)

And it can be much shorter than that.

[Tulkas the Mighty]

Earnur--> Shelob (Gorbag or Shagrat)--> Frodo

I am assuming that since Earnur went to Minas Morgul he may have met Shelob, Gorbag or Shagrat. And yes, these specific Orcs may have been alive at that time if they were of Elvish fear. One of them did comment about the days during the Great War which would refer to the Seige of Barad Dur, making either of them old enough to fit in this connection.

[Lord of Angmar]

Oh yes, of course, no Saruman! I have been really quite forgetful in these past few days, I don't know what has come over me - senility, I suppose.

Well, I am stumped. Since we can't use relatives unless they are immediate family members, I shall have to sit and think about this one for a while more.

[Lord of Angmar]

Tulkas, yours seems a bit of a stretch. I doubt that Earnur met Shelob, and whether Shagrat and Gorbag were even stationed at Cirith Ungol at the time (if indeed they were even alive) is, as far as I know, unknown one way or the other.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:46 PM January 04, 2004: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

[Evisse the Blue]

How about:
Earnur - Mouth of Sauron -Gandalf - Frodo?

it seems very likely that Earnur has met with Mouth of Sauron, who was the Lieutenant, messenger boy and all around good guy for Sauron. Also, he was surely alive then, as he was supposed to be one of the Black Numenoreans.

[Lord of Angmar]

it seems very likely that Earnur has met with Mouth of Sauron,

When tracing from one name to another there must have been interaction or implied interaction in the novels between the two charcters.

Does 'probable' count as 'implied'? If I had given the question I would perhaps have accepted the Mouth of Sauron, but I do not know if probable interaction is allowed by the game rules. Saucepan Man, or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject, can you clear that up?

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 6:17 PM January 04, 2004: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

[Lindolirian]

I think what we really need is Ruitha to tell us if we are to assume connections. Usually we do discourage implied connections.* In this case, Ruitha please tell us if any of your connections are assumed and if they are, you might have to tell us or make another puzzle.

*Some exceptions may be made for instance if two people were in Gondolin or Valinor. Something like this, it could be argued that when spending so many years in a secluded place, you just HAD to know everyone. smilies/wink.gif smilies/tongue.gif

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 8:01 PM January 04, 2004: Message edited by: Lindolirian ]

[The Saucepan Man]

I take an "implied connection" to mean a connection that follows from the circumstances of the two characters in question. It does not encompass pure speculation without any solid evidence from Tolkien's writings (otherwise connections might be contrived to make almost any answer fit). That, to my mind, precludes any connection between Earnur and the Mouth of Sauron, Shagrat, Gorbag or Shelob.

Ruitha, if your puzzle does involve speculation (and no one has got it yet), I suggest you tell us and set a new question. If not, pleae confirm so people can keep guessing.

And Lord of Angmar, going back a few questions, how can you doubt the connection between Bilbo and Dwalin when they both went on the same Quest together? smilies/rolleyes.gif smilies/wink.gif

[NightKnight]

Earnur -> Glorfindel -> Frodo

Does it get much easier? :P

[Ruitha]

Wow ... many replies ...
NightKnight got it (to my relief! I was getting worried I'd cheated in some way...)
As described in the Appendices, Glorfindel and Earnur fought together in the battle in which Angmar fell; and Glorfindel warned Earnur not to pursue the Witch-king, telling him that 'not by the hand of man will he fall.'

[NightKnight]

Curufin -> Éowyn

No Fëanor, none of Curufin's cousins. 6 steps (7 people). Try that one!

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Curufin -> Celebrimbor ?-> Gil-Galad -> Elrond -> Arwen -> Aragorn -> Eowyn

I'm not that sure about a certain interaction between Celebrimbor and Gil-Galad, but perhaps it could count as a most likely interaction. smilies/biggrin.gif
Greetings,
EfR

[NightKnight]

Hmm...not quite what I was looking for. If we would have known that they had interacted, I would have given it to you, but as it is, try to find another connection.

[Lindolirian]

Curufin-> Beren-> Dior-> Eärendil-> Elrond-> Aragorn-> Éowyn
or
Curufin-> Huan-> Oromë-> Manwë-> Gandalf-> Éowyn

[NightKnight]

When did Dior meet Eärendil? He died when the sons of Fëanor attacked Doriath. For the other one, you're not supposed to use Gandalf.

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Curufin -> Beren -> Dior -> Elwing -> Elrond -> Aragorn -> Arwen
or:
Curufin -> Beren -> Thingol -> Cirdan -> Elrond -> Aragorn -> Arwen (considering the fact that both Cirdan and Thingol were Lords of the Teleri and would most likely have consulted each other when travelling from the mere of Cuivienen westwards)

Edit: Damn, of course I meant Eowyn when I said Arwen. But this is now too late. smilies/mad.gif
Greetings,
EfR

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:05 PM January 10, 2004: Message edited by: Elrond of Rivendell ]

[nobody]

Curufin->Beren->Dior->Elwing->Elrond->Aragorn->Eowyn. (Unless Elrond counts as a cousin)

[NightKnight]

Not really what I had thought, but Elrond, you may continue. smilies/smile.gif

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Thank you NightKnight.
Next question:
Ecthelion -> Brodda
Please do it with 6 separations (->), though shorter would also be fine and using only ONE elf beside Ecthelion and WITHOUT Turin Turambar.
Greetings,
EfR

[Lindolirian]

Ecthelion->(Turgon)-> Hurin-> Aerin or Sador-> Brodda

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Okay, I had something much more complicated in mind, but I see now that your solution is much more elegant. smilies/wink.gif
Please continue Lindolirian.
Greetings,
EfR

[Lindolirian]

Daughter of Larnach-> Treebeard
Just to let you know this one uses an almost assumed connection. My opinion is that it would be valid, but some might disagree. In any case, I'm using it and it's not hard at all to figure out if you know your history

EDIT: To dispel any other confusion, don't use Turin Turambar.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 9:05 PM January 11, 2004: Message edited by: Lindolirian ]

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Daughter of Larnach -> Turin Turambar -> Hurin -> Fingon -> Finarfin -> Galadriel -> Treebeard

[Lindolirian]

Argh.. I'm so terribly sorry for not saying this earlier, but I wanted this one done without Turin. Sorry about that. Your's works nicely, but I think mine's more fun smilies/wink.gif

[Lord of Angmar]

Daughter of Larnach->Glaurung->Melkor->Manwe->Yavanna->Treebeard

It may be a bit of a stretch (Glaurung was killed in Brethil where Larnach's daughter resided), but this one seems like it may work.

[Lindolirian]

Yeah, it's a tad more of a stretch than I'd like, especially since the only people that Glaurung in Brethil met were Turin and Hunthor and even Hunthor's close to a stretch.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 9:06 PM January 11, 2004: Message edited by: Lindolirian ]

[Ruitha]

Larnach's daughrer -> Beleg -> Thingol -> Melian -> Galadriel -> Treebeard

or

Larnach's daughter - Beleg -> Thingol -> Orome -> Yavanna -> Treebeard

[Lindolirian]

Your first answer is good enough for me.

[Ruitha]

Okay, an easy one, as my last one was pretty evil. smilies/wink.gif Erendis -> Feanor.

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Erendis -> Tar-Aldarion -> Gil-galad -> Fingon -> Fingolfin -> Feänor

[Ruitha]

Fine; I think there were several ways. smilies/smile.gif Go ahead!

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Thank you.

Fengel -> Henderch

Restrictions:
- No Theoden
- No Istari
- No Hobbit

[Lindolirian]

Fengel-> Thengel-> Thorongil-> Elrond-> Gil-galad-> Tar-Aldarion-> Henderch

[Elrond of Rivendell]

Erm ... well ... this is perfectly correct. smilies/wink.gif

Well done Lindolirian. Your go.

Greetings,
EfR

[Lindolirian]

Sagroth-> Maedhros

No Elves, 'cept Maedhros a course.

[Lindolirian]

Too hard? Hint: Sagroth is mentioned in the War of the Jewels.

[Pallando B.C]

Sagroth ->Húrin ->Fingon ->Maedhros

[Lindolirian]

Nice to see you again Pallando!
Sorry, I wanted it done without Elves (except Maedhros). You're on the right track though!

[Ruitha]

Well, to keep it short...

Sagroth -> Hurin -> Morgoth -> Maedhros, or
Sagroth -> Hurin -> Thorondor -> Maedhros.

But that should maybe be Pallando's, I'd never have got there had he not supplied Hurin....

[Lindolirian]

Yup, either of those will work.

[Ruitha]

Uh, right. I'm tired ... can't think ... I'll give y'all a nice easy one, for a change. smilies/wink.gif

Elphir -> Oropher

I probably should place restrictions, but have not the energy to work it out whilst they stand ... so go ahead, get there however you please.

(Whatever I next do will be better, I promise...!)

[NightKnight]

Elphir -> Imrahil -> Aragorn -> Legolas -> Thranduil -> Oropher

Something like that?

[Miriel]

Um, this is Ruitha...
I have no way to prove it, but I lost my password then realised the site only has my old email address, so not really sure how to get that account back. smilies/wink.gif
And this is fine, although you could've missed out Aragorn.
Go ahead. Or, if you don't feel you can believe me, wait the ten days then go ahead. smilies/wink.gif

[NightKnight]

Yeah, thought of that later. :P

Try this: Finduilas (1st Age) -> Finduilas (3rd Age)

[Miriel]

Finduilas -> Orodreth -> Galadriel -> Boromir -> Finduilas

[NightKnight]

Works fine. smilies/smile.gif

[Miriel]

Okay, here goes....

Ibun -> Orome

No Ainur, no Turin, and a maximum of one Elf. :p

[Lindolirian]

Ibun-> Mîm->Hùrin->Turgon->Oromë

[Miriel]

Different from my way, but looks fine. :) Go ahead!

[Lindolirian]

Manwendil-> Annael

[Miriel]

Manwendil -> Elros -> Earendil -> Tuor -> Annael

[Lindolirian]

Very nice. Continue!

[Miriel]

Hrm ... Sador Labadal -> Radagast

[NightKnight]

Sador Labadal -> Turin -> Melian -> Galadriel -> (Frodo ->) Gwaihir -> Radagast

I'm not sure if Galadriel met Gwaihir, but he did bring Gandalf to Caras Galadhon, so the chance is big.

[Miriel]

Looks good. :) Would probably have been quicker to go from Radagast to Yavanna (and from there you have several options), but this is fine.

[NightKnight]

Vana -> Gothmog

No elves. ;)

[Lindolirian]

Not as simple as Vana-> Melkor-> Gothmog is it?

[NightKnight]

Oops, missed that possibility. But you're right, it's not that simple. ;)

[Lindolirian]

Good...
Vana-> (Manwë)-> Ëarendil-> (Tuor)-> Gothmog

[NightKnight]

Eärendil is half-elven...and do it without the valar.

[Lindolirian]

Gothmog-> Húrin-> Túrin-> Melian-> Vána

[NightKnight]

Works fine. :)

[Lindolirian]

This is actually a seven degrees of separation, unless you cut out one or even two of the people in favor of an assumed connection. Anyway, its really close and not too hard, so check it out:
Saeros-> Saelon

[Lindolirian]

Now this isn't too hard... Use your heads, people!

[Miriel]

Saeros -> Turin -> Hurin -> Hareth -> Hador -> Hathol -> Magor -> Saelon

I found several ways to do this, but I think this is the quickest. As you said, there are a couple of connections you could assume to shorten this - but here it is at full length anyway.

[Lindolirian]

I think you're thinking of a different Saelon. This one lived in the 4th Age.

[NightKnight]

Saeros -> Turin -> Melian -> Galadriel -> Aragorn -> Beregond -> Borlas -> Saelon

Yes?

[Lindolirian]

Very nice! :) I used Pippin instead of Aragron, but it's the same difference.

[NightKnight]

Eru -> Shagrat.

Only 5 degrees here. Also, no good guys. ;)

[The Saucepan Man]

Eru -> Morgoth -> Sauron -> Witch-King -> Shagrat

This assumes that Shagrat was acquainted with the Witch-King. If that link is not certain enough, then Gorbag needs to be added in, as he was from Minas Morgul, of which the Witch-King was commander:

Eru -> Morgoth -> Sauron -> Witch-King -> Gorbag -> Shagrat

Edit: Strictly speaking, Sauron shouldn't be used under the game guidelines, but I can't see any other way of doing it without using any good guys. :confused:

[NightKnight]

Well, there is a way. Try to find it. ;)

[The Saucepan Man]

Eru -> Morgoth -> Ungoliant -> Shelob -> Ufthak -> Shagrat

Although it is arguable that Shelob was more than one generation removed from Ungoliant.

[Miriel]

Hmm. Would this work...?

Eru -> Morgoth -> Ungoliant -> Shelob -> Shagrat


Edit: Ah, curses, too late. And missed one out. :(

[NightKnight]

Perfect, Saucepan. You're up.
And I believe it is said that she was the "last horrible offspring of Ungoliant" or something similar. I take that as that Ungoliant was Shelob's mother.

[The Saucepan Man]

And I believe it is said that she was the "last horrible offspring of Ungoliant" or something similar. I take that as that Ungoliant was Shelob's mother. That is what most sources appear to assume, but we cannot be certain. "Offspring" and "spawn" can also simply mean descendants.

Anyway, enough of that. On with the game:

Nain I -> Thrain II

Using documented connections only (ie no assumptions whatsoever). :smokin:

[NightKnight]

Náin I -> Thrain II -> Thorin I -> Glóin -> Óin -> Náin II -> Dáin I -> Thror -> Thráin II

[The Saucepan Man]

... that's 8 degrees of separation.

Now do it in 5 ... :p

[Lindolirian]

Nain I -> Thrain II

Nain I-> Durin's Bane-> Gimli-> Thorin Oakenshield-> Thrain II

[NightKnight]

Meh. :P

[The Saucepan Man]

I couldn't recall whether there is a specific reference to Gimli and Thorin Oakenshield meeting (in UT perhaps?), so I had Gloin between them.

But you are spot on otherwise, Lindol. :) Please carry on.

[Lindolirian]

Yeah, I thought I remembered the two talking in UT because Gimli wanted to come along of the Quest of Erebor, but I didn't have my UT with me, so I chanced it. However, you are right I would have done better to throw in Gloin. Anyway...

Baldor-> Elurin

[NightKnight]

Baldor -> (Dead men of Dunharrow ->) Aragorn -> Elrond -> Elwing -> Elurin

[Lindolirian]

Yup, technically you didn't need the Dead Men since Aragorn found Baldor's bones, but you were wise to put them in anyway.

[NightKnight]

That's how I reasoned too.

Celebrimbor -> Tuor

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Celebrimbor -> Galadriel -> Turgon -> Tuor.

[NightKnight]

That's a way I hadn't thought of, but it works fine as well. Your turn. :)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Oh, well...

Link the two most important people in my life:

Finrod and Tar-Míriel

[Lindolirian]

Finrod-> Sauron-> Ar-Pharazôn-> Tar Míriel
But, since we aren't supposed to use Sauron...
Finrod-> Fingon-> Gil-Galad-> Elendil-> (Amandil)-> Ar-Pharazôn-> Tar-Míriel

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Have you noticed that Sauron killed them both?

[NightKnight]

If I can call you Nil. ;)

[Lindolirian]

Celebrimbor-> Amandil

No Gil-Galad or any heirs of Elendil...

[NightKnight]

Celebrimbor -> Curufin -> Maglor -> Elrond -> Elendil -> Amandil

[Lindolirian]

Aye, that be one way of it!

[NightKnight]

Very well...

Dior -> Bergil

Ya.

[Lindolirian]

Dior-> Melian-> Galadriel-> Pippin-> Bergil

[NightKnight]

Works fine. :)

[Lindolirian]

Angrist-> Palantir of Orthanc

[Miriel]

Angrist -> Beren -> Finrod -> Galadriel -> Saruman -> Palantir?

[NightKnight]

Actually, you're not supposed to use Saruman.

Angrist -> Beren -> Finrod -> Galadriel -> Pippin -> Palantir

Just a small change.

[Lindolirian]

Sheesh, ya just gotta do that to me. Well I'd feel kinda bad giving it to either of you. You're both technically right, but
Miriel had it first, but NK is more right. So, I'll just go easy on myself and ask for the first connection without Beren or Galadriel. :D

[NightKnight]

Very well...

Angrist -> Curufin -> Celebrimbor -> Elrond -> Aragorn -> Pippin -> Palantir

There. ;)

[Miriel]

*sighs*

Okay, how about...

Angrist -> Curufin -> Celebrimbor -> Celeborn -> Pippin -> Palantir?


Edit: Curse you, NightKnight!!! :mad: ;)

[Lindolirian]

Ah, sorry Miriel, but NightKnight has claimed it first.

[NightKnight]

Hehe, sorry Miriel. ;)

Try Bill the Pony -> Thorin Oakenshield.

[Lindolirian]

Bill the Pony-> (Sam)-> Elrond-> Thorin

[NightKnight]

A bit easier than I thought. Very well, that makes it your turn. :)

[Lindolirian]

Borthand-> Lobelia S-B
No Galadriel.

[NightKnight]

Borthand -> Maglor -> Elrond -> Bilbo -> Lobelia

[Lindolirian]

Exactly what I had. :)

[NightKnight]

Oh well...

Ungoliant -> Elenwë

Only one elf except Elenwë.

[Lindolirian]

Can we use places as a connection?
Ungoliant-> Helcaraxë-> Elenwë
If not...
Ungoliant-> Morgoth-> Turgon-> Elenwë

[NightKnight]

The second one works, I had forgot that Morgoth and Turgon met. I thought of the line Hurin -> Huor -> Tuor -> Idril, but the thread is now yours. :)

[Lindolirian]

Guthwinë-> Beren
Using only one person other than the above.

[NightKnight]

Guthwine -> Saruman -> Beren

[Lindolirian]

Well, not Beren the Steward, but Beren Erchamion. And when I say "one person" it dones't mean only one separator. ;)

[NightKnight]

Being tricksy now, are we? Are we supposed to use other things instead?

Oh well.

Guthwine -> Firefoot -> Shadowfax -> Glamdring -> Hurin -> Melian -> Beren

Only one "person". :p

[Lindolirian]

Yes, being very tricksy. :p
However it can be much shorter and you have two persons (Hurin and Melian)

[Miriel]

Guthwine -> Narsil/Andúril -> Telchar -> Angrist -> Beren.

[Lindolirian]

Precisely!

[Miriel]

:cool:


Um ... Hirwen -> Gimli, any way you wish...

[NightKnight]

Hirwen -> Barahir -> Beren -> Melian -> Galadriel -> Gimli

[Miriel]

Fine, pray continue.

[NightKnight]

Thorondor -> Frodo

However you want.

[alaklondewen]

Thorondor -> Gwaihir -> Frodo ?

[Firefoot]

Thorondor-> Glorfindel-> Frodo?

[NightKnight]

I'm gonna give it to Firefoot, because as far as I know, there is no evidence of Thorondor and Gwaihir meeting.

[Firefoot]

Fëanor -> Rose Cotton

[Thorongil]

Feanor -> Galadriel -> Sam -> Rose Cotton

[Firefoot]

Yes, your turn.

[Thorongil]

Turin Turambar -> Frodo

[Lindolirian]

As simple as Turin-> Melian-> Galadriel-> Frodo?
Or more like Turin->Tuor-> Earendil-> Elrond-> Frodo?
Or even tricksier Turin-> Orodreth-> Finrod Felagund-> Sauron-> the One Ring-> Frodo
:D :p :D

[Thorongil]

^

[Lindolirian]

Oropher-> Nain I
No Elveses :)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Could you link to a place?

Oropher -> Mirkwood -> Thorin -> Dáin II -> Moria -> Náin I