Bio-warfare In Middle-earth

[Rumil]

Hi all,

Agree that Sauron had no particular need for a plague during the War of the Ring. Although maybe he could have engineered it to infect humans, not orcs, he probably outnumbered the West in human troops alone. Therefore it could have been counter-productive to unleash such a thing, as chem/bio-warfare tends to be unpredictable to say the least.

As has been mentioned, his 17th century plague might have been a smart move - he had no great strength of numbers, the West would lose heavily, and presumably orcs would re-populate faster.

One possible biological warfare technique was the catapulting of the severed heads into Minas Tirith, that could have spread disease, contaminated water etc, though it was likely more of a morale-degrading measure. Another was the 'poisoning' of orc blades, could be a chemical poison, or contamination with, er... infectious or toxic biological materials of various unpleasant natures!

I've had a theory that the 'broils and smokes from the East' that periodically affected Gondor might have contained endocrine-disruptive chemicals that might reduce fertility, as we know Minas Tirith only had half the population that it could hold. If so, was Sauron's biological warfare rather more subtle than it seems? Its really unusual for a medieval-style city to lose population unless there's a high mortality from disease (common enough in history but MT seems a fairly healthy place), lack of food, or very high losses in warfare/political disorder.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Agree that Sauron had no particular need for a plague during the War of the Ring. Although maybe he could have engineered it to infect humans, not orcs, he probably outnumbered the West in human troops alone. Therefore it could have been counter-productive to unleash such a thing, as chem/bio-warfare tends to be unpredictable to say the least.

Exactly. And, unlike in Peter Jackson's Middle Earth, Sauron et al weren't trying to rid the place of humans.

As has been mentioned, his 17th century plague might have been a smart move - he had no great strength of numbers, the West would lose heavily, and presumably orcs would re-populate faster.

Was Manwe asleep at the switch? A wind from the West could have changed the effect of this plague.

One possible biological warfare technique was the catapulting of the severed heads into Minas Tirith, that could have spread disease, contaminated water etc, though it was likely more of a morale-degrading measure. Another was the 'poisoning' of orc blades, could be a chemical poison, or contamination with, er... infectious or toxic biological materials of various unpleasant natures!

Yep. Like lembas and elven rope to the other side.

I've had a theory that the 'broils and smokes from the East' that periodically affected Gondor might have contained endocrine-disruptive chemicals that might reduce fertility, as we know Minas Tirith only had half the population that it could hold. If so, was Sauron's biological warfare rather more subtle than it seems? Its really unusual for a medieval-style city to lose population unless there's a high mortality from disease (common enough in history but MT seems a fairly healthy place), lack of food, or very high losses in warfare/political disorder.

Excellent observation! How better to easily get what you want than by letting - helping! - the current inhabitants simply die off?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

As has been mentioned, his 17th century plague might have been a smart move - he had no great strength of numbers, the West would lose heavily, and presumably orcs would re-populate faster.

*If* the Orcs had their origins as ruined Avari, would they not be immune to any plague or sickness , as the Firstborn were?

[The Might]

I think what also is important here is the fact that he simply did not need a plague during the WotR.

This is an easy explanation for many things that Sauron could have well used and did not - he was so confident and arrogant that he needed not bother come up with complicated plans, he knew that eventually he would defeat the West. Of course that turned out to be a mistake in the end...

[alatar]

I also think that Sauron wanted a 'clean' victory. I see him not as a rogue, bent on burning the whole place down, but as an evil but brilliant tactician and strategist. Instead of sending over yet another plague (the first already did its work well enough), he went for more conventional means to subdue his conquests. Sauron also used psychic biowarfare in the cowl of the Nine.

This more clean warfare would leave more whole survivors, which, methinks, he may have had other plans for.

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

*If* the Orcs had their origins as ruined Avari, would they not be immune to any plague or sickness , as the Firstborn were?

It depends on how fallen, exactly, the orcs ended up being. I can see the First Age orcs being incredibly better than the Third Agers, simply because the elven side of them was a lot stronger then. And over time, the elven blood most likely was weakened and diluted, so I can see the orcs being just as vulnerable to disease as humans. Not the same diseases, given the orcs' choice of habitations, but still illnesses.

[Elmo]

I reckon Morgoth didn't send out constant plagues because he had already spent too much of his power on orcses and dragons. He would have if he could as he was a nihilist who wanted everything and everyone dead.

Sauron might have had a similar lack of power but also he was content with creatures living as long as they were his slaves to do his bidding.

[Farael]

I agree with much of what has been said here, particularly on the fact that Sauron had no desire of being king over an empty desert. After all, even Mordor had arable lands!

But I think there's one more thing to consider: Plagues don't hold territories. Yes, they can weaken your foe and make it easier for you to conquer them, but at some point you have to get out and conquer them. So I would say that, as has been said before, Sauron felt the time was ripe for conequest and so a plague was not what he needed, he needed armies for control and occupation.

Furthermore, we don't really know how plagues were spread. It seems that the writers of the annals where such information was collected to make the appendixes of LoTR (after all, it's not Tolkien who speaks to us as a narrator) attributed the plagues to "ill winds" but then their societies probably knew nothing about disease vectors and microorganisms.

Is it possible that these plagues sperad by conventional methods? which include human-to-human (elf-to human?) contact, vector organisms like mosquitoes, aerosols and the like

Perhaps to spread a plague Sauron first had to infect a significant amount of individuals and send them to coexist with his targets. Then he created a "foul wind" which probably encouraged people to stay inside... and voila! Good situation for a rapid spread of a virulent and contagious disease! However, during times of high military tension, peoples would tend to be more xenophobic (See Rohan) and thus the disease would not have been easily introduced to their target lands!

Therefore (and finishing up a long, rambling post) Sauron's need for armed conquest of territories decreased his ability to spread disease among his enemies so that he would have reaped little or no benefit from trying.

Or perhaps, he did try and, for the reasons explained before, failed and thus we never found out!

[Inziladun]

I thought I would revive this old thread, because it still fascinates me.

Any thoughts as to the nature of these plagues? Illness caused by micro-organisms isn't exactly a known thing in Tolkien's Arda. How did Morgoth, and later Suaron, manage their bio-terror acts? Could the "plagues" have had a chemical origin, instead of one founded in biology? After all, we see the land around Angband and Mordor rendered sterile and void of vegetation. The Brown Lands were subjected to some sort of assault that made them utterly unusable for anything.

Gas warfare, perhaps?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I thought I would revive this old thread, because it still fascinates me.

Any thoughts as to the nature of these plagues? Illness caused by micro-organisms isn't exactly a known thing in Tolkien's Arda. How did Morgoth, and later Suaron, manage their bio-terror acts? Could the "plagues" have had a chemical origin, instead of one founded in biology? After all, we see the land around Angband and Mordor rendered sterile and void of vegetation. The Brown Lands were subjected to some sort of assault that made them utterly unusable for anything.

Gas warfare, perhaps?

Plagues were once considered magic or "God's Wrath". The mind of pre-Enlightenment man would consider plague spreading by the air (often in conjunction with earthquakes or volcanoes), by sight, or by touch, but knew nothing of the actual method of transmission.

But Medieval men knew enough about plague to catapult infected bodies into walled towns under siege (and thus force a surrender), just as later Europeans knew well enough what would happen if they gave blankets infected with small-pox to Native Americans. Sauron or Morgoth, although not microbiologists or epidemiologists would have, being immortal and all, seen countless iterations of disease over many centuries, and would discover an effective method of transmission -- whether that be along trade routes (infected clothing, fabric, blankets), or merely through warfare, which was always an effective means of transmitting disease (hence syphilis was called the 'French Disease' in Italy, the French referred to it as the 'Neapolitan Disease', the Persians called it the 'Turkish Disease', and the Indians called it the 'Portuguese Disease' -- only the Spanish didn't blame another country ).

So, although Tolkien inferred the pestilence was airborne from the enemy, I'd prefer to consider that plague wasn't Dark Lord conjured, but Dark Lord administered.

P.S. Mordor and its environs were filthy by all accounts, and bad sanitary conditions were (and still are) the primary source of plagues and pandemics. So, Mordor could well have been a wonderful incubator for any number of infectious diseases.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Any thoughts as to the nature of these plagues? Illness caused by micro-organisms isn't exactly a known thing in Tolkien's Arda. How did Morgoth, and later Suaron, manage their bio-terror acts? Could the "plagues" have had a chemical origin, instead of one founded in biology? After all, we see the land around Angband and Mordor rendered sterile and void of vegetation. The Brown Lands were subjected to some sort of assault that made them utterly unusable for anything.

The image of the "dark winds out of the East" has interested me for some time. This suggests, unless it is meant to convey a primitive understanding of disease, that it was spread atmospherically rather than by people or animals. It caused me to think of radioactive fallout which would spread through the atmosphere after a large nuclear detonation. A chemical poison seems quite possible, but it would have to be extremely potent to be effective when mixed with the atmosphere at large.