WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Yes, but why then play this game? Surely you can't expect people to trust you, unless they have a solid reason?

True but sometimes it gets out of proportions, and it can be really annoying when nobody listens to you. So I wouldn't say that getting frustrated means that Morsul is a baddie or very unhelpful. It's better for the village not to focus on a single suspect, and if Morsul's innocent, he's trying to sacrifice himself for the greater good.

Edit: Agan: Lottie too still has hers left. I remember her retraction was late. Again, why is this a problem?

Oh yes that's true. And it's not a problem, it's just something that should be kept an eye on. Just in case. In a game where the lynch is determined by who gets the biggest number of votes last, a single retraction made right before the deadline can mean a lot.

[Morsul the Dark]

Agan's... defending me

There are many reasons to vote oneself...

Frustration
For the greater good
to have a unanimous vote(Happened a few games ago)
and others...

My vote is definitely not out of frustration.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Agan's... defending me

There are many reasons to vote oneself...

Frustration
For the greater good
to have a unanimous vote(Happened a few games ago)
and others...

My vote is definitely not out of frustration.

And then your other post which talked about a "plan"... do you really want me to spell it out for the class, Morsul?

[Morsul the Dark]

why not?

1. Morsul thinks he's clever
2. Morsul isn't subtle
3. Morsul let's his plan slide

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

why not?

1. Morsul thinks he's clever
2. Morsul isn't subtle
3. Morsul let's his plan slide

Fine.

I think Morsul's the Unicorn and would like to trade him out, hopefully for Greenie.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If Green had dreamt of Ag, why would she have kept flip-flopping on her? It makes about as much sense as the fact that yesterDay you were claiming I believe G dreamt of A and saying my dream theories don't make any sense and now suggesting that G dreamt of A yourself...

Well I said that before among the people she might have dreamt about in the beginning, the problem is that she basically didn't proclaim anybody or almost anybody as totally clean. Well I'd have to recheck - if she kept saying some things about suspecting her also on the last Day, it's another thing. Whatever. Now I have other tasks...

Anyway, sort of generally... if I think about voting...

Not voting Mira, because she could hang around for a while yet and then be modfired if she does not participate. If she does, we can at least read something from her and see. Not going to vote her now when she hasn't been around for a while.

Not voting Morsul, said above, generally now leaning to think him innocent.

Not voting Lommy. If there is anybody innocent around here, it's her.

Not voting Agan either. I believe she is innocent. (Okay, though actually now Lommy has disputed that dream thing, so I might recheck it. Still, otherwise, not really suspecting her... or sort of "would like not to suspect her". Because I am sort of restraining myself from starting to think her a Wolf, because if she is, I am going to hate her.)

Now we are getting into the harder part.

Not voting skip? Because if he is a Wolf he would deserve it and at least we could lynch him in every consequent game? I am not really sure.

Brinniel. Nerwen. Not really suspecting either of them. Brinniel maybe even less. Actually after her last posts I think her innocent. Nerwen, I think I am getting paranoid, maybe I need to re-read some of her older posts. Her summary as made by Agan does not make me suspect her, as many of the points she brings up there are explainable to me and I don't see anything suspicious in them. But then... now not sure if the rereading is going to accomplish much, to be honest. If she is a Wolf, the only way to incriminate her is to dream of her or to find her through her packmates.

WW is not much around... his voting list speaks partially against him being a Wolf.

Does that leave Shasta... I need to re-read him as well.

EDIT: x-ed since Mira and all... okay...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate

Not voting skip? Because if he is a Wolf he would deserve it and at least we could lynch him in every consequent game? I am not really sure.

...Come again?

[skip spence]

So either we have Morsul the Martyr or Morsul the Desperate Lone Wolf? Voting on him does seems like a win-win scenario and at the moment I'm willing to oblige.

But I'm also concerned about the lack of other serious candidates.

And Agan, wouldn't you save yourself by retracting and re-voting if you had the chance and it was your only chance? Regardless of the role?

Edit: To clarify, an innocent saving himself from being lynched by re-voting may also get the real wolf lynched and thus be good for the village.

[Aganzir]

Yeah Morsul wouldn't have thought so?

Originally Posted by skip spence

Voting on him does seems like a win-win scenario and at the moment I'm willing to oblige.

To me it doesn't because I believe we have a chance of getting a baddie (Nerwen)... And that reasoning would totally make me suspect you (skipwolf just wants an easy lynch!) if it wasn't for other things that make me think you more innocentish.

And Agan, wouldn't you save yourself by retracting and re-voting if you had the chance and it was your only chance? Regardless of the role?

Maybe but not necessarily. It would depend on the situation.

FYI, I'm trying to go through Nog's interactions with others in order to supplement Lommy's extensive wolf post analysis (mainly because I think it was a darn good way to do it ). However I'd love to go to sleep in half an hour so it might be I don't have to complete it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading, and can I just say I don't like how everyone is dismissing Morsul simply because of the way he acts? People change the ways they act all the time.

Alright then.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Alright, I've seen a few things in Morsul's posts that are making me think something interesting.

++Morsul

I should be around (but distracted) for the next two hours or so, if something comes up.

[Morsul the Dark]

Shasta I wonder what was interesting in my posts that you saw. But hey good vote.

Here's a thought... there are 7 ordos left YAY! but one is cursed they don't even know they're cursed I certainly hope we get us a wolf... But if not maybe the unicorn(we have a chance of getting our folks back) or cursed the las wolf truely is alone

Oh and one more thing Shasta has good reasoning and I think she's innocent.

Skip on the other hand would be happy to oblige my easy lynch. Jumping on a bit of bait?

--Morsul
++Skip

[Aganzir]

++Nerwen

For reasons already explained.

I'll be around at least until I've done the Nog thingy... However I don't think I'll analyse it any further than that (sorry but I need my sleep, even if it's weekend) but at least it's there in case somebody else has more time and energy.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, back. I didn't read deeply the Nerwen-Agan-whatnot-whatever disputes, so I am going to reread them again properly to see what was going on there. Meanwhile, comment on other posts:

Originally Posted by Mirandir

In the meantime, I've been trying to figure out what Morsul is trying to accomplish by voting for himself. Yes, it makes sense if he is innocent to want to get rid of suspicion on him to focus on a wolf. However, if he is indeed innocent he's only hurting the village by encouraging us to kill him and give the wolves a leg up. If the cobbler wasn't already dead, he'd be my main suspect.

If he is a wolf, though, voting for himself to make it look like he has nothing to lose is something of an intelligent strategy. However, it casts a lot of suspicion on his actions in general.

So this pretty much boils down to I have no idea what to think. I'm leaning toward innocent and pigheaded, but tempted to vote him for sheer stupidity at the risk of being hypocritical.

This, especially the first part, I sort of don't like and am not sure about it. On my first sight, that made me alert. Is it, like, a Wolf too easily jumping on the easy lynch without joining it yet (=i.e. going to vote later and blend with the crowd once people all start voting Morsul?)

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Sometimes people do it (do you know Nilpaurion Felagund? It was his trademark). And I must admit that I can understand Morsul's point: if he's innocent (which I think he is) and everybody just keeps suspecting him, it can get quite frustrating. Like, lynch me now and be done with it!

Interesting 180° turn of being understanding to Morsul, to whom you never seemed to understand at all, right at the moment he voted himself. But whatever...

Generally speaking, if I went with sort of my line of thought how it was all the time and not admitting any possibility of suddenly turning my world upside-down because of being paranoid that Nerwen, Agan or somebody might be Wolves, then I would basically seek for the Wolf between Shasta or Mira the most.

There is one reason why I think Agan might be innocent, also because I believe Greenie would have dreamed of her. I mean, have Aganzir running unchecked, I think she would have looked into that. I think now it's really a pity that she did not get to reveal her dreams to us! Unless she really dreamed only of dead people. But that sounds quite unlikely - also exactly because of what I have just said about Agan.

So now I am going to reread, then reread somehow further into the past, and then hopefully even further, and if I am not asleep by then, I will do something about it.

EDIT: x-ed since Morsul

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay and since Morsul did it, now I can say it aloud, that's exactly what I have been thinking he's going to do. The action may of course not imply anything in general if just anybody did it, but given Morsul-logic, if I try to imagine it from his perspective, it makes me think him more innocent. Maybe also Shasta, but there's a questionmark over that.

EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Interesting 180° turn of being understanding to Morsul, to whom you never seemed to understand at all, right at the moment he voted himself. But whatever...

No it wasn't that moment, I had started to feel better about him earlier (might have been already yesterday) although I'm not sure how clearly I ever said it.

I'm going to sleep soonishly (unless you suddenly start to post something very interesting ).

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

This, especially the first part, I sort of don't like and am not sure about it. On my first sight, that made me alert. Is it, like, a Wolf too easily jumping on the easy lynch without joining it yet (=i.e. going to vote later and blend with the crowd once people all start voting Morsul?)[/B]

I did voice suspicion against him before that, though. Like, two days ago. I'm just actually doing something about it now.

++Morsul

For reasons previously stated and since he's the only one who's really jumped out at me. This might change if I get the chance to go over some things more closely, but wanted to make sure I didn't miss deadline again.

[Brinniel]

winty: I just can't see him being a wolf. If he were one, he probably would've had more guidance on the first Days. He looks like a confused newbie innocent to me.

Mira: I don't suspect her because even with time constraints, I think she would be more devoted to the game as a wolf. I just can't see a Mira-wolf miss voting for two Days considering her participation would be more important than ever with all her packmates gone.

Aganzir: Scares me a little bit. I agree with some things she says and I think she made a good case against Nerwen. The problem is an Agan-wolf is capable of making brilliant cases against players in order to get them lynched (I would know). The only reason I'm leaning more towards innocence is that I'm not sure she would make such a strong case as a wolf when she needs to last several Days in order to win. If Nerwen turns out innocent, that would make Aganzir look bad which is not what a lone wolf wants when they need to survive three more Days to win.

Shasta: I'm very uncertain about him. It'd be interesting if he were a wolf, and I wouldn't put it past Nogrod to suspect his final packmate if he thought it would help. Of course, this tactic was already tried and failed, so maybe not. Reading Shasta's posts, there's nothing that jumps out at me as seriously suspicious, but I'm still not sure.

Nerwen: Suspicious. While her voting record may seem good, the timing on her votes is not. And the reasons she comes to for voting the wolves has been rather wishy-washy...she certainly hasn't been eager to lynch any of them. The open case she's done on me doesn't feel all that innocent...it's her hesitance that makes me skeptical.

Legate: I don't know. His posts often end up becoming a blur to me because they're so long, but from what I got reading, he seems genuine. But the problem is that Legate can be really sneaky...sometimes when he seems least suspicious, he turns out to be a wolf. I don't see any reason to suspect him right now, but I would just like to keep an eye on him.

Morsul: His behaviour in this game seems typical of him. I can't see him being so clever or bold to vote fellow wolves from early on and then toDay vote for himself to make himself look innocent. Those are some very risky moves for a wolf to make. I do think it's less likely he's a wolf and would rather not see him lynched toDay.

Skip: While he's done some suspicious things, his intentions behind his actions seem good and his words genuine. He could very well be a clever newbie wolf...I can see him pulling it off. I'm still leaning toward innocence, but I'm a little more unsure of it compared to other players in that category.

Lommy: I think she's innocent. I can't remember her having any hesitance in suspecting and voting for the wolves...I doubt a wolf would be so eager to lynch all her fellows and I don't think Lommy's the type who'd want to be a lone wolf. I also agree with her on many points, particularly the list post she made about other players. If Lommy is a wolf, I'd have to give her mad props because I just don't see the slightest bit of wolfishness in her.