Arwen vs. Galadriel

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by elbenprincess

But he is saying that Galadriel is NOT correct in her belief that she could master the ring and so is especially Elrond it was only the deceit of the ring that makes them believe that they could do it.

That´s illogical, one time Tolkiens says that of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him and the next time he says that especially Elrond could master him? Don´t think so. I read it as if especially Elrond conceived of himself as capable of wielding the ring and supplanting the dark lord. You can read it both ways but I don´t think Elrond had the greatest innate power, Galadriel is described an an equal of Feanor (in later writing I know, but nevertheless that was Tolkiens take on her) who was the mightiest of the elves and I think no one would argue that he could match Feanor. Only because Elrond was decended from melian doesn´t mean that he was more powerful than the other elves. (In that logic same would apply for Arwen and the twins)Galadriel for sure and Glorfindel (only after his re-birth)are innately more powerful.

Tolkien is saying this, that out of the others(the good guys) only Gandalf can be expected to master it.
Galadriel thought she could master it too.
If Galadriel could master it then so could the others.
Especially Elrond.
But the ring deludes people.
So Galadriel was probably deluded.

Tolkien has never used greatest to mean the most powerful. In every sense when he wants to talk about sheer innate power or superior ability he uses mightiest.

Earendil is the mightiest mariner.
Maglor is the second mightiest singer.
Feanor is the mightiest of the Noldor.
Beleg is the mightiest woodsman.
Ar-pharazon is the mightiest Numenor King
Hurin is the mightiest warrior of men.
Hurin is the mightest of men.

Greatest outright does not mean most powerful. Maeglin is the second greatest Elf in Gondolin, but Ecthelion and Glorfindel are mightier.

That aside Tolkien likes to explain his power.Elrond is a descendant of Melian and this means a lot according to Tolkien.

Elrond has the mightiest elven ring, Elrond is the most likely to be able to overthrow Sauron outside the Istari.

"Elrond wore a mantle of grey and had a star upon his forehead, and a silver harp was in his hand, and upon his finger was a ring of gold with a great blue stone, Vilya, mightiest of the Three."

I gave him the name Elrond casually, but as this came from the mythology (Elros and Elrond the two sons of Eärendel) I made him half-elven. Only in The Lord was he identified with the son of Eärendel, and so the great-grandson of Lúthien and Beren, a great power and a Ringholder.

It's Elrond 's magic which defeats the 9 all gathered together.

It is Erond, who holds out against Sauron in Imladris.

Frodo asks:
"What about Rivendell and the Elves? Is Rivendell safe?"
Gandalf replies:
"Yes, at present, until all else is conquered."

He is the greatest healer in Middle Earth.

Only Cirdan has greater foresight than him and Cirdan has this as a reward from the Valar.
This is what is said about Cirdan's foresight.
This does not include the Istari(who came from Valinor), but must include even Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn.

Notice it the fact that he has superior foresight to Elrond is especially highlighted.

When it comes to innate power all the quotes suggest that Elrond has the most power out of the non Maiar


We have been over this and I have shown how the High Kingship of the Noldor was only passed to males through a male line. Consequently it skipped Elrond, Fingolfin's heir through Turgon and went to Gil-galad the heir of Finarfin. By going to Gil-galad it skipped Galadriel and her daughter Celebrian.

With no one else left on Middle Earth, Arwen could claim the lands through both Finarfin and Fingolfin.