Balrog and The One Ring

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

The other question that has not been touched on in this thread yet is "Could the Balrog have mastered the Ring?"

If by master, you mean having the ability to withhold the Ring from Sauron in his despite (as described in a Letter by Tolkien as being a measure of one's 'mastery' of the Ring), I would say it's a toss-up. Tolkien envisaged Gandalf as being able to do so. The Balrog seemingly had not exhausted, as had Sauron, much of its will and spirit in the dominion of others. Then the question again turns to what a Balrog with the Ring would do. Try in some one to enable Morgoth's return? Impossible. Force Sauron and the forces of Mordor to serve it, essentially replacing Sauron? If that, doesn't the Ring win after all?

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If that, doesn't the Ring win after all?

The Ring always wins unless it is destroyed.

[Marwhini]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

If by master, you mean having the ability to withhold the Ring from Sauron in his despite (as described in a Letter by Tolkien as being a measure of one's 'mastery' of the Ring), I would say it's a toss-up. Tolkien envisaged Gandalf as being able to do so. The Balrog seemingly had not exhausted, as had Sauron, much of its will and spirit in the dominion of others. Then the question again turns to what a Balrog with the Ring would do. Try in some one to enable Morgoth's return? Impossible. Force Sauron and the forces of Mordor to serve it, essentially replacing Sauron? If that, doesn't the Ring win after all?

Again, Morgoth's return isn't impossible, as Tolkien said that was how Arda Marred would eventually come to an end, and Arda Unmarred would come to be:

Morgoth would return from the Void, crossing over the Walls of the Night.

MB

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Marwhini

Again, Morgoth's return isn't impossible, as Tolkien said that was how Arda Marred would eventually come to an end, and Arda Unmarred would come to be:

Morgoth would return from the Void, crossing over the Walls of the Night.

I'm aware of the Second Prophecy, but my point was that the Balrog couldn't have pulled it off, Ring or no.

[Marwhini]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I'm aware of the Second Prophecy, but my point was that the Balrog couldn't have pulled it off, Ring or no.

Yes... Quite likely.

But.... Does that mean he would not try?

As I already indicated... I don't think the Balrog would have left Moria, even if it possessed the One Ring.

But then that damned Ring of Sauron's seems to be the source of so much contention and strife. And not just in Middle-earth. It seems that even in our world the One Ring is the source of a sizable amount of strife and conflict among wound-be allies.

MB

[Faramir Jones]

From what we have been told, the Balrogs were Maiar, like Sauron, and were also corrupted by Morgoth.

It's possible the Balrog in question might have had a chance against Sauron. While I don't have his Letters to hand, I recall Tolkien saying that the only being who had a chance to defeat Sauron in personal combat while using the One Ring was a Maia, Gandalf. Might that Balrog, also a former Maia, have a similar chance?

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

It's possible the Balrog in question might have had a chance against Sauron. While I don't have his Letters to hand, I recall Tolkien saying that the only being who had a chance to defeat Sauron in personal combat while using the One Ring was a Maia, Gandalf. Might that Balrog, also a former Maia, have a similar chance?

I think so.

There are a number of parallels between the Gandalf vs. Sauron question and Balrog vs. Sauron. In both contests the Ring would still be a part of Sauron and attempting to get back to him. However, Sauron had spent much of himself and was greatly diminished from his former power whereas Gandalf and the Balrog were not.

The biggest difference being that Gandalf and the Balrog did face off and Gandalf won that one, so perhaps the Balrog was not quite on that level.

[skip spence]

I have the notion that a Balrog would be something like a dark and twisted version of Gandalf. Gandalf is surely a fiery spirit in origin, in possession of the Ring of Fire; and the fire of Gandalf is cleansing, uplifting, inspiring. The Balrog have a fiery heart but are clothed in shadow, their fire is destroying, devouring and they strike fear into the hearts of those who behold them.

But unlike the Istari none of the Balrogs are shown to have any kind of personality. The only named one is Gothmog who appears to have been a great field commander in Morgoth's army in the First Age with, one assumes, a great deal of agency and cunning, but he has no lines as far as I can remember and we are never told explicitly about any strategic decisions of his.

The motives and doings of Durin's Bane are also unclear. Why was he down there idle for so long? Did he command the Orcs that infested the Mines or were they just as surprised as the company when he showed up? Maybe they were aware of something terrible down below but too afraid of Sauron to move out? Could be that the Orcs and the Balrog had no means of communication between them, that they simply didn't share a common language, as banal as that sounds.

In my opinion I think Durin's Bane would immediately have recognized the Ring as a powerful artefact and used it for his own ends. And if Sauron came knocking, would he hand it over? Well for me that's impossible to say. I suppose that the Balrog wouldn't have surrendered it freely. Gandalf was tempted to take the Ring and use it, or so he said. But he was Good. The Balrog was Evil with a capital E, and would have no qualms about giving in to temptation. Besides he wouldn't know what the ring was and who made it. Well the more I think of it I reckon it's an unanswerable question. We don't know enough about the Balrogs to tell.