20 Questions on ME

[Galadriel55]

Alive - not in any literal sense
Sentient - no
Object - not really, ish. I wouldn't call it so. But maybe you could.
Physically exists - yes
Natural - ... ... ... ...nooo, but one needs to be cautious here as well. It is, in a way. But then again, it isn't, looking at its origins according to the legendarium.

Damn it! I will stick to the usual person/place/thing next time and not come up woth something crazy!

[Narnangol]

Is it (can it be) used/handled for a purpose?

[Galadriel55]

Alive - not in any literal sense
Sentient - no
Object - not really, ish. I wouldn't call it so. But maybe you could.
Physically exists - yes
Natural - ... ... ... ...nooo, but one needs to be cautious here as well. It is, in a way. But then again, it isn't, looking at its origins according to the legendarium.
Is it (can it be) used/handled for a purpose? - No, it can't be, and it isn't.

[Narnangol]

A clue, perhaps? :)
You seem to have pulled out something very curious for us to guess.

[Galadriel55]

A clue, perhaps? :)
You seem to have pulled out something very curious for us to guess.

Clues, clues...

Ok. Well, I think that the most confusing part is how can in be physical and not, and natural and not, at the same time. In a way in works the same way as one of my previous "answers" - calaquendi. (am I that redundant? I have to very those answers every once in a while...) Like everything in the legendarium, it was made, but in our world we consider it natural. On the other hand, just like calaquendi is a division that people created amongst themselves, but is still made up of absolutely natural people....

Does that make any sense?

PS: this is indeed a curious thing - something that I don't remember ever being the answer! (though of course I did not read the whole thread - that would be insanity!!!)

[Mithalwen]

Galadriel, dearheart, do remember what this was or could we perhaps start again? Same rules but after so long and so many pagesI don’t think we need to worry about repeating items.

[Galadriel55]

Galadriel, dearheart, do remember what this was or could we perhaps start again? Same rules but after so long and so many pagesI don’t think we need to worry about repeating items.

I have no idea what I had in mind. Take it away if you wish. :)

[Mithalwen]

Let us know if it comes back to you..

So any questions?

[Galadriel55]

Let us know if it comes back to you..

I wish. I'm curious myself. What on earth was I thinking?


Anyway. Alive?

[Mithalwen]

A added mystery.

Alive? No

[Urwen]

Place?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No

[Huinesoron]

Does it have a name in one of Tolkien's created languages?

hS

[Mithalwen]

interesting question.

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No

[Urwen]

Object?

[Mithalwen]

Indeed

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes

[Urwen]

First age?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No

[Galadriel55]

Man-made?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes although a somewhat ambiguous question in Tokien’s Legendarium!

[Urwen]

Third age?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes

On a roll...

[Urwen]

A sword?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.

[Huinesoron]

Could it be picked up by Aragorn? (Assuming he was somehow placed directly in front of it.)

hS

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes

[Urwen]

Is it a Hobbit thing?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.

[Urwen]

Made by Feanor?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.

[Urwen]

Made of wood?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No

[Urwen]

A jewel?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No
A Jewel? No

[Urwen]

A standard?

[Huinesoron]

So what do we know? It's a crafted object, not extant in the First Age but around in the Third. It's small enough and light enough to pick up. It's almost certainly not a weapon - not a sword, not one of the Hobbits' knives, and not a bow or arrow (which would be wooden). It's not made by Feanor, which rules out... the Palantiri, I guess. It's not a jewel, so isn't the Arkenstone (the Elessar was already out by virtue of its name; it's kind of a shame this question didn't say 'jewellery', to get the Rings as well).

It doesn't have an Elvish name, which rules out a lot. While it could be the One Ring, most other things without Elvish names are 'regular use' items. So... hmm.

If it's not wooden, it could be metal, stone, or some form of organic material - cloth, food, paper, something like that. Metal would probably point to a Ring; it could be something like Pippin's brooch, but that would surely be a 'Hobbit thing'. It could also be armour. Stone... you know, I actually can't think of a liftable stone object that isn't already ruled out. Organics could be anything from the Book of Mazarbul to Denethor's dinner. (It could also be Aragorn's standard, but we're going to know that explicitly pretty soon. :))

I like to think in terms of splitting the field in half, rather than trying to rule out specific answers. There's only a few metal answers still viable, only a few stone ones (if any), and not a whole lot of animal-based material ones. Add them together, and they probably equal the plant-based answers, and therefore:

-Is it made of a material that came from plants?

hS

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No
A Jewel? No
A standard? No
Huinesoron, to my mind the correct approach especially Were I to be strict about the 20 questions.
Made from material of plant origin? No

[Huinesoron]

Right, it's not plant-based. So it's not food, it's not general clothing. It's probably not a document, since I don't think any are explicitly said to be on vellum or something, so I don't think we'd have got a flat 'no' on plant-based.

(We're up to 15 question so far, so if we want to get in under 20, we've got our work cut out for us.)

I'm torn over whether to continue pushing the materials line, or try and narrow down something like use or location. Not knowing how famous this object is makes it tricky - if we're after 'Eowyn's helmet which she used to disguise herself as Dernhelm', asking whether it's something you wear would probably narrow it down faster than checking materials. But if it's something big-name, then finding out whether it's metal (and therefore probably a Ring) or leather (and therefore... I don't even know) would be more useful.

Wait - it's not one of the Rings, because it's only 'not likely to be' made by Feanor, whereas they are known not to be. So it's something without a known maker. Hmm.

Okay, I may regret this question, because I'm not sure it will tell me as much as I'd like, but:

-Is it something that Eowyn could wear? (Again assuming she was placed directly in front of it.)

(Why Eowyn? Why not Eowyn?)

hS

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No
A Jewel? No
A standard? No
Made from material of plant origin? No
Could Eowyn wear it? Yes

[Urwen]

A helmet?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No
A Jewel? No
A standard? No
Made from material of plant origin? No
Could Eowyn wear it? Yes
A helmet? No

[Galadriel55]

So what can you wear that is not plant-based in an age without polyesther? Woolen clothes. Metal armour. Weapons that aren't swords. Jewelry/decoration without an actual jewel in it. Belts and brooches. Horns. Leather shoes. Crowns. Detachable Balrog wings.

Joking about the wings, but that aside - we haven't narrowed it down one bit!

I agree with Hui that other weapons are unlikely as spears, arrows, bows, clubs all usually contain an element of wood, and shields as well. Woolen clothes and leather shoes - it would have to be a specific enough item, not just that hobbit's other uncle's cousin-in-law's friend's woolen cloak. Is there any specific note of clothes and shoes that you recall with reference to their material? Metal armour and chainmail are more than possible. So are decorations, brooches, belts, crowns, and horns.

Going through specific items knowing that it's not a "hobbit thing": none of the hobbits' gear, including the knives, mithril coat, Merry and Pippin's Lorien belts, Merry's horn, Frodo's pearl, One Ring and its chain, Sherrif feathers. I am not sure if I can exclude Lorien brooches altogether, but as Pippin's was the only notable one and we're talking singular object they can be put aside.

Enough about what it's not; what could it be still? Boromir's remarkable gear - his horn and Lorien belt. Aragorn's crown, and various lesser known crown-like objects. Any unnamed Ring - in particular Thrain's Ring, Saruman's makeshift ring. Ring of Barahir is out because First Age too. The Hobbit stuff: the necklace Bilbo gives to Thranduil. Stuff from earlier times. Lots of things I can't remember.

Oh, and there is the matter of "not likely" made by Feanor, ie maker unknown. Therefore horn is out, unnamed Rings are out, Lorien wearables are probably out as they were made tailored to the Fellowship. Orcish / outright evil stuff is also out.


So... three questions left...

Would Eowyn wear this thing on her head?

[Mithalwen]

[QUOTE=Mithalwen;720430]Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No
A Jewel? No
A standard? No
Made from material of plant origin? No
Could Eowyn wear it? Yes
A helmet? No
Would Eowyn wear it on her head? No.

Any other answer would be too loose an interpretation of wear and also not something in my humble opinion to be likely behaviour.

[Galadriel55]

Well darn.

[Mithalwen]

There has been a lot of good thinking unfortunately allied with a rather scattergun approach to questions But I am not going to comment any further just now.

[Urwen]

Would she wear it on her body?

[Mithalwen]

What do you mean by body? I can’t see where else she could wear it. Or do you mean torso? Or are you making a distinction between could and would?

[Urwen]

Armor?


(And I meant covering her whole body, like an armor would.)

[Urwen]

Hello?

[Urwen]

Still waiting for a response to my guess...

[Galadriel55]

Still waiting for a response to my guess...

It's ok, there's no rush. Think what would be the most probable thing should armour not be the case - after all it seems like a fairly specific object, not just some vague armour of soldier #3. Is there any specific armour that would be remarkable in a way you can easily name? If not, what would be the next guess? What else seems likely given what we know?

[Urwen]

Not sure? Maybe a shield?

[Galadriel55]

Not sure? Maybe a shield?

That isn't made of wood? We gotta be careful with the next question, we have only 1 guess left before we reach 20 which is the technical endpoint of the game.

[Huinesoron]

First up, an apology: I messed up with 'plant-based'; I forgot that clothes in LotR are more likely to be wool than cotton. Either animal-based or metal would have been a better choice to rule out.

Okay. Where do you wear things? Your head (ruled out), your hands, your feet, your legs, your torso, or as an accessory.

Hands: either a ring or a glove. Almost all rings are ruled out because we know exactly who made them, or because they're around in the First Age. I can't think of anyone wearing gloves.

Feet: does anyone have noteworthy shoes or boots? It can't be a dwarf, because they presumably wouldn't fit Eowyn. Tom wears big boots to confront a troll, and Tom Bombadil has yellow boots that Eowyn could probably get her feet into.

Legs: I... don't think there's any significant trousers? Tolkien doesn't really go much in for clothing descriptions outside the Hobbits, and we know it's not theirs. (Though, hmm... 'Hobbit thing' is ambiguous; does that imply that it was owned but not made by a Hobbit?)

Torso: armour is a possible, and is going to be a nightmare - about the only one we can rule out is the Mithril vest! If not armour, we're looking at some sort of leather jerkin or wool top (but not Bilbo's weskit). Perhaps a costume someone disguises themselves in, though the only one I can think of is Frodo's Orc-armour. (Is Gollum's loin-cloth from the book?

Accessory: a cloak springs to mind. I don't think we know what the Lorien cloaks are made of, and they could have been made by Feanor. Or we could be looking for an item of jewellery, like a brooch or necklace (without a prominent jewel). Bombadil pulls a brooch out of a barrow, Pippin drops one in Rohan, and the Rangers of the North wear a silver star. Necklace... there's the Necklace of Girion, which has jewels in it but isn't one. And I suppose there's the chain the Ring hung on. (Would Pearl Took's pearl necklace count as a jewel?)

Or how about backpacks? Most of the Fellowship have them, and they could be either wool or something like canvas. Something like 'Sam's pack' might be unique enough to be a 20 Questions answer (though that one would be a Hobbit Thing).

And belts, as well... Boromir's is the only one that jumps to mind, though others are mentioned (Balin has one when he comes to visit Bilbo).

There... really doesn't seem to be an easy way to narrow this down.

hS

[Urwen]

Actuallz, those could be Narya/Nenya/Vilya, as none of them were made by Feanor.

[Urwen]

That isn't made of wood? We gotta be careful with the next question, we have only 1 guess left before we reach 20 which is the technical endpoint of the game.

There are shields made of metal too.

[Huinesoron]

Actuallz, those could be Narya/Nenya/Vilya, as none of them were made by Feanor.

It definitely couldn't be those three, because they have Elvish names (see question 3).

I don't think it can be any of the other Great Rings, because Mithalwen responded to the Feanor question with 'neither known to be or likely to be'. We know exactly who made the Great Rings (and Saruman's ring for that matter), so they wouldn't just be 'not likely' - they definitely weren't made by Feanor! The only other notable ring I can think of is Barahir's, which could be Feanor's work - but was extant in the First Age (see question 5).

There are shields made of metal too.

I didn't look at shields because I didn't consider them as 'worn', but they kind of are, aren't they? Gil-Galad notably has a silver one, but that's not attested in the Third Age. Other than that...

... well, there's a fair few people noted as having shields, but how many do we know for sure they're not wooden? There are 22 instances of 'shield' in The Hobbit, for instance, and aside from the numerous 'Oakenshield's, none of them specify a material. So would Mith firmly state that it's not wooden if we didn't know for sure?

hS

[Mithalwen]

Sorry I was busy and a bit confused by an armour. Also really 2 guesses which ain’t in the spirit of things . So will answer the first question in light of the clarification.
If you don’t get in under 20 do yo want to carry on to decide the next setter or be told?

[Mithalwen]

Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No
A Jewel? No
A standard? No
Made from material of plant origin? No
Could Eowyn wear it? Yes
A helmet? No
Would Eowyn wear it on her head? No.
Would it cover all /most of Eowyn’s body? No.

I think it would be perfectly possible to have got this in 20 with a bit more narrowing down early on but I guess it is easy if you know the answer.

[Galadriel55]

Re: Shield
Though shields probably had some metal component to them, I doubt they were made solely of metal. More likely to be wood with metal plating. Just imagine carrying around a solid block of metal that size.

Re: Accessories
I don't know if I'm interpreting the "hobbit thing" too broadly, but a bunch of stuff is out because it was worn by hobbits (though not made by them) - Ring chain, Lorien brooches.

Re: Clothes materials
Plant based materials might still be used - linen and such. Don't know what silk counts as, hough probably not plant. But I believe for most clothes we don't have enough info to conclusively say it's not plant material either - unless wool or leather are specified.


Yes, we probably could have gotten it in 20 if we were wiser with the questions. But here we are, going past the limit.

Given the speculations in Huey's post, I think it's time to ask what should have been asked way earlier before we got sidetracked into clothing material:

Is it a piece of jewelry?

[Mithalwen]

I wasn’t intending to disparage just to state that it is not something really mean. It isn’t something from a HoME footnote. Since a further question has been asked. I’ll take the moral victory and let you guess on to decide who sets next.

You have been closer than you realise. A couple of things made me gasp so I was glad to be across the ether. Please note that I mentioned that a couple of questions were ambiguous but then gave unqualified answers.

[Mithalwen]

[QUOTE=Mithalwen;720458]Alive? No
Place? No
Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
Object? Yes
First Age? No
Man-made? Yes
Third age? Yes
A sword? No.
Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
Made of wood? No
A Jewel? No
A standard? No
Made from material of plant origin? No
Could Eowyn wear it? Yes
A helmet? No
Would Eowyn wear it on her head? No.
Would it cover all /most of Eowyn’s body? No.
A piece of jewellery?No

And since someone else has had a turn I will now answer Urwen’s next question as best I can.

Armour? Yes

[Urwen]

There are only two named armors left, and there is only one question left, so I will nab Huey's reasoning, to hell with consequences, and say Mithril shirt.

[Mithalwen]

1 Alive? No
2 Place? No
3 Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
4 Object? Yes
5 First Age? No
6 Man-made? Yes
7 Third age? Yes
8 A sword? No.
9 Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
10 Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
11 Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
12 Made of wood? No
13 A Jewel? No
14 A standard? No
15 Made from material of plant origin? No
16 Could Eowyn wear it? Yes
17 A helmet? No
18 Would Eowyn wear it on her head? No.
19 Would it cover all /most of Eowyn’s body? No.
20 A piece of jewellery?No
21 Armour? Yes
22 Mithril shirt? no

[Urwen]

Then I guess it's over.

[Urwen]

Dwarf mail? :p


If it's not one, it has to be the other.

[Mithalwen]

Dwarf mail No.

[Urwen]

But those two are only known armors that aren't worn on the head, at least according to TG.....


(Mind if I take over, since this round already bypassed 20 questions?)

[Huinesoron]

Okay; so here's everything described as 'armour', 'plate', 'corslet', 'hauberk', or 'mail', that could reasonably be the answer (so not 'the armour the goblins wore in Goblin Town):

From The Hobbit
-Mithril vest (explicitly no)
-Thorin's armour of gold-plated rings, which was rent when he was killed (probably too small & confirmed not Feanor's work)
-Dwarf-mail as worn by Dain's folk ('a hauberk of steel mail that hung to his knees', so might fit Eowyn, but I think confirmed dwarf-make).
--No obvious candidates here.

From Fellowship
-Earendil's armour of 'chained rings', from Bilbo's poem. (Either First Age, or invented by Bilbo and therefore a Hobbit thing)
-Aragorn's elven-mail, seen by Frodo in Rivendell. (May not have actually existed; the text is unclear.)
-The Orc-chieftain's 'black mail from head to foot' in Moria. (Given that he was 'almost man-high', this would have covered most of Eowyn's body.)
-The grey mail of the guards of Lorien. (Entirely possible.)
--The two Elvish mail sets are possible, but seem a bit obscure.

From Two Towers
-The 'shining mail' given to Aragorn and Legolas by the Rohirrim. (Perfectly plausible; Aragorn's is mentioned later as 'the armour of Rohan', and ultimately they come from Gondor, so could potentially but not likely be Feanor's work.)
-Gimli's 'short corslet' (explicitly made by dwarves).
-The 'corslet of overlapping brazen plates' worn by the slain Easterling. (Also plausible.)
-Eowyn's silver mail. (I mean... yeah.)
-The missing hauberk from the lament for Eorl. (I'm gonna go with no.)
--A few options, but none that spring out as being notable.

From Return of the King
-Merry's 'stout jerkin of leather' from Eowyn. Taken from the Rohirric camp, it could presumably be worn by Eowyn (but is a 'Hobbit thing').
-Pippin's Gondorian armour (was made for him, and would not fit Eowyn).
-'armour of the Citadel'; general Gondorian armour. (Is this specific enough, though?)
-Forlong's mail. (Could work.)
-The 'bright mail' of the sons of Elrond. (Possible.)
-The gilded hauberk of Prince Baldor of Rohan, lying with his bones in the Paths of the Dead. (Very possible.)
-Hirgon's 'fine mail'. (Possible.)
-Denethor's mail, which he wore all the time. (Possible.)
-Prince Imrahil's 'shining mail'. (Again, possible.)
-Frodo's 'stout ring-mail' of his Orc disguise, noted as being too big for him, so a possible fit for Eowyn. (But a Hobbit thing.)
-A 'coat of gilded mail' given to Sam. (Also Hobbitish.)
-Aragorn's 'black mail' from his return to Minas Tirith. (Possible.)
-The Witch-King's hauberk. (Entirely possible.)
--Quite a few possibilities here.

From the Appendices
-The mail-collar of Nain, which didn't save him from being killed by Azog. (Presumably dwarf-make.)
--Probably not then.

Going through all that, I think there's 13 plausible answers:

-Three sets of Aragorn's mail.
-An Orc in Moria.
-Easterling.
-Eowyn's mail.
-Armour of the Citadel.
-Forlong.
-Baldor
-Hirgon
-Denethor
-Imrahil
-Witch-King

Six of them were used during the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, which might be a way to narrow things down. Equally, seven were worn by people who were killed while wearing them (assuming the Witch-King counts as being 'killed'); eight if you include the fact that Guards of the Citadel certainly died in battle. All of them are mail except the Easterling's scale-mail; I didn't realise that Tolkien didn't include plate armour!

Five of them are not silver in colour (assuming the Witch-King wasn't prancing about in shiny mail). Only three are worn by evil characters (assuming we exclude Denethor and Baldor from that!). Seven were worn by royals (ie, Aragornx3, Baldor, Eowyn, Imrahil, and the Witch-King). I dunno, there's lots of options.

I think the time-fix is going to be the most useful, so I would like to ask:

Was it worn at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields?

hS

[Huinesoron]

(Mind if I take over, since this round already bypassed 20 questions?)

Never surrender! :mad: ;)

hS

[Urwen]

None of those are named, though?

[Urwen]

Also, wanna take over 6 degrees, Huey?

[Huinesoron]

None of those are named, though?

I haven't seen Mith indicate that it needs to be, just that it's not super obscure. We know it doesn't have an Elvish name, but that's about it.

Also, wanna take over 6 degrees, Huey?

Nope, go for it.

hS

[Urwen]

I already had a turn there, and I don't want to have 2 turns in a row.

[Mithalwen]

Worn at Battle of Pelennor fields? Yes.

[Urwen]

Worn by a commander?

[Huinesoron]

Current list:

Commanders:
-Aragorn's mail from Rohan.
-Forlong's mail
-Imrahil's armour
-Witch-King's mail
[-Denethor's armour]

Non-commanders:
-Eowyn's mail.
-Armour of the Citadel.

+anything anyone else thinks of; I'm not so arrogant as to think this is a comprehensive list.

Given Mith's 'gasp' reaction, if it's not a commander I think it might well be Eowyn's armour (since there was no obvious reason to name her, so it would have been a lucky shot in the dark).

hS

[Urwen]

If you do get it, could you set something easier (ie. named) as an answer, Huey? ;)

[Huinesoron]

If you do get it, could you set something easier (ie. named) as an answer, Huey? ;)

Named, yes - but no promises on 'easier'.

While we're talking about the future, can I get a rules clarification?

a Person, a place, an event or an item of ME

-Could the answer be a group of people?
-How about a language?
-Or a concept like 'the Unseen'?
-Does the answer have to be from Middle-earth itself, or just from the Legendarium as a whole?
-What about older versions of the Legendarium?
-How about non-Legendarium Tolkien (eg, the Father Christmas Letters)?

hS

[Urwen]

You do realize you're giving away just what kind of questions we'd need to ask in the future? :p

[Huinesoron]

You do realize you're giving away just what kind of questions we'd need to ask in the future? :p

I don't actually have an idea in mind yet; I want to know how broad the options are. :)

I once saw a similar Tolkien 20 Questions where the answer was 'the name "The Little Kingdom" as once used of Arda in the Silmarillion'. I'm assuming that's a step too far, but figured it was best to ask before potentially breaking the agreed-but-not-stated rules.

hS

[Huinesoron]

And I guess I can formalise this to save time:

If the answer to Urwen's question 'Worn by a commander?' is NO, then I would like to ask 'Is it Eowyn's armour?'.

hS

[Urwen]

Then think of something, because I have a feeling you'd get it.

[Mithalwen]

And I guess I can formalise this to save time:

If the answer to Urwen's question 'Worn by a commander?' is NO, then I would like to ask 'Is it Eowyn's armour?'.

hS
Yes to worn by a commander

[Urwen]

Worn by an evil character?

[Huinesoron]

Yes to worn by a commander

Hmm.

Commanders' armour:
-Aragorn's mail from Rohan.
-Forlong's mail
-Imrahil's armour
-Witch-King's mail
[-Denethor's armour]

I think we can mostly rule out Forlong - his armour is incidental - and Denethor - his status as a commander is titular at best.

The first ambiguous question was 'is it man-made', which was answered with a flat yes. So that points away from the Witch-King, whose armour was quite likely made by either Orcs or Sauron in person.

That leaves two, and of the two Aragorn is the most prominent, and may also account for the 'made me gasp' reaction (since I namedropped him as well). So:

Is it Aragorn's armour?

hS

[Urwen]

Why can't you be offline when I want you to be? :(

[Mithalwen]

No to evil character
No to Aragorn’s armour.
As to what you can choose well it does say in ME but I don’t see why languages or people should be excluded - not all things are tangible.

How obscure you make it rather depends on how much participation you want. I revived this to encourage participation rather than to point score on arcane knowledge and thought I had chosen a nice and fair thing but I might be wrong on that. However I will explain when it is nailed down if necessary.

[Mithalwen]

1 Alive? No
2 Place? No
3 Has a name in a language created by Tolkien? No
4 Object? Yes
5 First Age? No
6 Man-made? Yes
7 Third age? Yes
8 A sword? No.
9 Could it be picked up by Aragorn? Yes
10 Is it a hobbit thing? Again an ambiguous question but no.
11 Made by Feanor? No, well neither known to be or likely to be.
12 Made of wood? No
13 A Jewel? No
14 A standard? No
15 Made from material of plant origin? No
16 Could Eowyn wear it? Yes
17 A helmet? No
18 Would Eowyn wear it on her head? No.
19 Would it cover all /most of Eowyn’s body? No.
20 A piece of jewellery?No
21 Armour? Yes
22 Mithril shirt? no
23 Dwarf mail? No
24 Worn at Battle of Pelennor Fields? Yes
25 Worn by a commander? Yes
26 Worn by an evil character? No
27 Aragorn’s armour? No

I feel like I am watching people tackling a maze and getting close then going the wrong way

[Urwen]

Imrahil's armour?

[Urwen]

(Also, to Huey: Next time I want you to be on, I'll just try to force you to get off, since you're determined to do the exact opposite of what I want.)

[Mithalwen]

imrahil’s armour?

I r3fer you to the answer to question 19.

[Urwen]

Forlong's armor?

[Mithalwen]

Ditto unless you think Forlong the fat is smaller than Eowyn.

I may have to just tell you to save my sanity.

[Urwen]

There is Merry, but he isn't the commander.


There are Gandalf and Denethor, but they're hardly smaller than Eowyn.

[Urwen]

Thought it's possible he was a commander, but during the Scouring rather than on Pelennor itself.



So.....Merry's armour?

[Urwen]

Then again, his armour won't fit her.


There is her husband, who commanded the forces during the assault on Osgilliath.....

[Mithalwen]

Another wrong turn. You need to back track and look at my answers.

[Urwen]

Wait a second.....


Did its wearer survive?

[Urwen]

List of commanders: Aragorn, Gandalf, Halbarad, Theoden, Eomer, Grimbold, Denethor, Imrahil, Forlong, Hirluin, Duinhir, Golasgil and Dervorin


Take out Aragorn, Imrahil and Forlong, and it becomes: Gandalf, Halbarad, Theoden, Eomer, Grimbold, Denethor, Hirluin, Duinhir, Golasgil and Dervorin


Still too many.....

[Mithalwen]

Yes the owner survived. And that isn’t where you went wrong.

[Urwen]

Remaining candidates who meet the criteria: Gandalf, Eomer, Duinhir, Golasgil and Dervorin

The trouble is, there isn't a clear way to figure out whether an armor covers most/all of the body, and the pictures don't provide us with a clear estimate of that either, so I will have to narrow it down further the usual way.

Was it worn by someone from Gondor?

[Huinesoron]

Another wrong turn. You need to back track and look at my answers.

This sounds like it's a piece of armour, such as a gauntlet or boot, rather than a full suit of mail.

hS

[Mithalwen]

Exactly.

[Urwen]

But whose?

[Urwen]

Wait, maybe Boromir's arm braces are the answer?

[Mithalwen]

No. Aren’t they just a film thing? I don’t recall them mentioned although he prob had them.

[Urwen]

Or maybe Imrahil's vambrace which he used to detect that Eowyn was alive? This could very well be the reason for the gasp.

[Mithalwen]

Okay, I may regret this question, because I'm not sure it will tell me as much as I'd like, but:

-Is it something that Eowyn could wear? (Again assuming she was placed directly in front of it.)

(Why Eowyn? Why not Eowyn?)

hS

Indeed. This was the gasp since it was literally placed in front of Eowyn. Also why I quibbled an armour since is an uncountable noun like clothing.

Mind you I had a moment when it was asked about Aragorn picking it up. Could easily have happened offstage.

[Urwen]

I did it! I beat Huey!

Okay, fire away!

[Urwen]

Someone please ask some questions?! >.< :mad:

[Huinesoron]

I did it! I beat Huey!

And here I thought we were working together to get the answer... ;)

Well done, I'd completely forgotten the vambrace, even though I used it in a riddle less than a month ago! Where's the 'sheepish embarassment' smiley?

hS

[Huinesoron]

Someone please ask some questions?! >.< :mad:

Oh, right, that.

Um, is it alive?

hS

[Urwen]

I find it unfair that you were all eager to solve Mithalwen's round, but not mine. Is it because I solved it instead of you?!

Is it alive? No

[Huinesoron]

I find it unfair that you were all eager to solve Mithalwen's round, but not mine. Is it because I solved it instead of you?!

Is it alive? No

... I was asleep. And you are the only person who saw it as some kind of contest to get the answer.

I'll let someone else ask the next question; don't want to monopolise the thread.

hS

[Galadriel55]

I find it unfair that you were all eager to solve Mithalwen's round, but not mine. Is it because I solved it instead of you?!

Yes, I do not respond immediately to posts made at 5 in the morning local time just to spite you. We're all doing it. It's a conspiracy. See, even Mith is holding a grudge that you solved her puzzle rather than Hui.

You gotta realize that games are played for fun, voluntarily. Don't make demands of people when it comes to that, or the game stops being fun and people stop playing.


Object?

[Galadriel55]

Named, yes - but no promises on 'easier'.

While we're talking about the future, can I get a rules clarification?

a Person, a place, an event or an item of ME

-Could the answer be a group of people?
-How about a language?
-Or a concept like 'the Unseen'?
-Does the answer have to be from Middle-earth itself, or just from the Legendarium as a whole?
-What about older versions of the Legendarium?
-How about non-Legendarium Tolkien (eg, the Father Christmas Letters)?

hS

You could use anything as the answer. However, from personal experience of someone who used to pick very abstract or unusual things as the answer, it's not as much fun as you might think. The less black and white the concept gets, the harder it is to answer yes or no to simple questions. Look through some old questions on the thread and you'll see what I mean. So choose wisely what battle you want to pick there.

My sister and I play this game IRL. When we were younger we kept coming up with really abstract things - "argument", "reflection", "charity", that kind of thing - but it always took forever to get the answer and there was barely a clear yes/no in the answers. So now we have an agreement that we do simple things only - which doesn't mean they can't be tricksy, just not weirdly abstract.

As for alternative versions / non-Legendarium - there's technically nothing to stop you using it, but speaking with perfect honesty I'll be quite ****ed off at you if you do. :p Doesn't seem like a fair game if the guesser hasn't heard of the answer before. ;)

[Urwen]

Yes, I do not respond immediately to posts made at 5 in the morning local time just to spite you. We're all doing it. It's a conspiracy. See, even Mith is holding a grudge that you solved her puzzle rather than Hui.

You gotta realize that games are played for fun, voluntarily. Don't make demands of people when it comes to that, or the game stops being fun and people stop playing.


Object?


If you don't wanna post, then don't log in? What's even the point of logging in if you're unable to do anything? The only plausible conclusion is that you are doing it on purpose. There are other people like me, people who get excited when someone else gets online, only to be disappointed when that person does nothing. You understand?


In fact, I will stop answering questions altogether and when you bug me about it, I will ignore you, and see how YOU would like that, how about it?!

[Urwen]

This will be the last one I answer

Is it alive? No
Object? Yes

Have fun while I ignore you.

[Huinesoron]

If you don't wanna post, then don't log in? What's even the point of logging in if you're unable to do anything? The only plausible conclusion is that you are doing it on purpose. There are other people like me, people who get excited when someone else gets online, only to be disappointed when that person does nothing. You understand?

From the way you're talking, it seems like you're unaware that most modern browsers will keep you logged in automatically. So what you are saying comes over as people either need to add several extra steps to their visits to the Downs, or not visit the Downs at all unless they intend to engage with you. Which, I'm sure you understand, is unreasonable. :)

hS

[Galadriel55]

If you don't wanna post, then don't log in? What's even the point of logging in if you're unable to do anything? The only plausible conclusion is that you are doing it on purpose. There are other people like me, people who get excited when someone else gets online, only to be disappointed when that person does nothing. You understand?


In fact, I will stop answering questions altogether and when you bug me about it, I will ignore you, and see how YOU would like that, how about it?!

Actually - I don't think I'd care very much. You don't want to play unless everyone else is standing on their heads around you - don't play. I'm not gonna stand on my head to keep appeasing your desire for immediate responses.

As for why a person may be seen as logged in and not post, as usual the only explanation you see is the one you are fixated on. I don't have to explain myself to you. If you wanna think it's all about you, sure. Go ahead. Don't bother considering other explanations. I don't have to explain my life to you because, if you haven't realized yet, participation in games is completely voluntary, and you only have an obligation to post regularly if you have the game now. So have a think if you get bored ignoring me. :)

[Urwen]

I want the threads to be active. What's even the point of reviving them if you have no intention of keeping them active?

[Urwen]

Also, if you're that busy that you can't even take five minutes to post, then why do you even log on? So you can stare at the forum homepage while twiddling your thumbs?

Go on, provide me a decent explanation on why you are so busy you cannot post, but are still able to log on despite being oh-so-busy.....

[Urwen]

From the way you're talking, it seems like you're unaware that most modern browsers will keep you logged in automatically. So what you are saying comes over as people either need to add several extra steps to their visits to the Downs, or not visit the Downs at all unless they intend to engage with you. Which, I'm sure you understand, is unreasonable. :)

hS


Oh, when you grow as bored as I am now, you'd be singing a different tune, you will. ^^

[Galadriel55]

Also, if you're that busy that you can't even take five minutes to post, then why do you even log on? So you can stare at the forum homepage while twiddling your thumbs?

Go on, provide me a decent explanation on why you are so busy you cannot post, but are still able to log on despite being oh-so-busy.....

Actually, yeah. It gives me joy to visit the Downs and keep up with the threads. It lifts my mood when I visit in the morning, even though I only have a couple minutes to spare for it. It lifts my mood when I check in after a long day of work and studying and see what's happening, even if my brain is too muddled to contribute meaningfully. And it absolutely ruins that mood when you keep making unreasonable demands of people for your immediate gratification. So I will continue to open the Downs when I can to read the threads and twiddle my thumbs, and I will continue to post when I wish to post and not when you demand it, and I will continue to take joy from my daily lurking. And if you want to spare yourself disappointment, please realize that there are many reasons for people to behave the way they do, and precious few have anything to do with you personally.

[Urwen]

Well, my joy is to have people play those games. You take away my joy, I take away yours. I believe it's a fair trade.

And guess what? Simply realizing that won't spare me any disappointment, because I thrive on replies and thus will remain disappointed that there are none, regardless of the reason for it.


Again, what's the point of even reviving this game if you're just gonna let it die again?

[Urwen]

And now, let's drop this and continue the game.