Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[littlemanpoet]

What if Faramund had rascals paid to take out his father? - they conveniently escape and Faramund publicly deplores the scoundrels?

I like Folwren's developments on Nogrod's ideas.

[Nogrod]

On the issue of the local three lords taking advantage of the farmers living around them: I think they have all being treating the farmers unjustly and perhaps also illegally. That said, I think Tancred and Alboin had started it, perhaps without even kind of realising it at first (well, Alboin might have realised it...), but it had grown little by little with their well-being and richness. (This could be the excuse for Tancred if we wish to "save him", that he became blind to what he was doing) Now Friduhelm surely was not with it, but when Faramund rose into lordship he had hard time to show he was "worth the others" and thus maybe mistreated the people around his hall the worst.

I still like the idea that Alboin is the one who is knowing what he is doing while Faramund tries to imitate him and Tancred, and Tancred himself, being old and all, just enjoys his raising living standards taking them for granted and doesn't exactly realise how much wrong he is doing (which doesn't mean he is stupid or weak - he should still be the charismatic old warlord). Tancred might also have a kind of aristocratic view of the world where he would think that after all the service he had done for Rohan it is just fair others support him in wealth after the fact, or something along the lines.


But my idea actually is the following... how about we make Faramund a real tragic character?

He's a reckless, and well, bad youngster who has been given too much too early: insecure, self-important, greedy, egoistic, willing to prove / show himself... you name it. Now his dad has put him back to his place and he is filled with anger and humiliation.

But the more important thing in general would be Friduhelm's promise to pay back to the farmers for any injustice they have been submitted to. Now that is something, as I said, both Tancred and Alboin would be afraid of, and for a reason as the general feeling could spread.

Now if we think Tancred is in the end still the decent man who has just kind of faltered from the narrow road of virtue and is thus incapable of downright monstrosities, then let's enter Alboin whom I still think might be the intelligent and dangerous person.

So hearing about what happened at Faramund's (Friduhelm's) place he would take action and organise the secret assasination of Friduhelm - likely in a way it looked like a natural death, but whatever it looked like, there would be second guesses and they would naturally point at Faramund!

If Athanar and thus king Eomer would bite it that there was just one rotten apple aka. Faramund, he (and Tancred) could continue more or less the way they had done before... Also, by thus creating a more hideous case for the common people to talk about (a son murdering his father) he might wish for the case against wrongly levied payments etc. by him and Tancred to go with lesser notice as they could always exaggerate how badly Faramund treated the people around his lands by creating rumours to fit their needs... (meaning that their practises would look reasonable in comparison to Faramund's and thus the people would settle with them and not try to find out what would be justified in general)

Here we might also have room for a courageous & intelligent Stedford who'd realise at least that it is a cover up and he would come to the Mead Hall raising the concern - or if he knew more he could actually raise a rebellion straight against Alboin! Also we would have this delicious character Faramund still with us with all the complexities.

It would call for some people to write those characters actually, I could take one of them, but let's see... If we come to this kind of solution I think Alboin needs writing as well and I could take him instead of Faramund / Stedford.

But let's see first what you think about this idea (it could easily accomodate a lot of Folwren's ideas).

[littlemanpoet]

I can't help thinking that the way Tolkien described the Mark, it was a much less complex society than what we seem to be assuming here.

[Nogrod]

Are you suggesting my plot is a complex one? :rolleyes:


PS. There are now two posts that end up in waiting for Eodwine's answer. No hurry as such, but if we wish to get forwards the next move clearly is on Eodwine.

[littlemanpoet]

Tolkien's plot was way more complex. No problem there.

I'm suggesting that the cultural setting is not as stratified as you are describing, nor the people so under the thumb of lords. The society was known for its free land holders, with Thains and Eorls, as opposed to lords with manors holding people in feudal domination.

[Nogrod]

Tolkien's plot was way more complex. No problem there. That's what I thought... :)

I'm suggesting that the cultural setting is not as stratified as you are describing, nor the people so under the thumb of lords. The society was known for its free land holders, with Thains and Eorls, as opposed to lords with manors holding people in feudal domination.Naturally... I mean those suggestions were just shorthand notes as to some general possibilities (I mean I have already hundred times more complex ideas about it already - not to talk of adding other people's contributions to it).

Also. After our last discussion on the general political climate on Rohan I have actually taken heed of your description of it as the libertarian utopia and at least hope I have acted / written accordingly. But if it is the libertarian land I think can be backed by the writings of Tolkien at least in part, then we must remember that ultimate freedom and the absence of state also means the "freedom" to be oppressed or the "freedom" to oppress... I mean how would an independent and "free" farmer with only his family around him oppose someone like Faramund if he came there with a dozen eorlinga and demanded this or that? Or if he gave him these or those terms for a deal to help him?

I mean if you get people organized against the oppression of the higher class you know what system of political arrangement we're talking about then? :D

[Galadriel55]

Well most of LOTR (except for references to events that happened ages and Ages ago) takes place late TA, in the middle of a war. Fourth Age peace could potentially mean less energy dedicated to outwitting the enemy and more energy to outwitting your neighbour. I think there were other FA RPGs that explored the idea of honesty and chivalry becoming meaningless in the peaceful world and skill at court intrigues replacing them. Such a result would be a natural assumption, and court intrigue would be the main source of plot ideas once the fighting is done.

Yet from what Tolkien did write, I think he intended early FA (and 14 is still pretty early) to be a good time, and free of such "parasites". I think that he meant to bring the peace but keep the chivalry, at least for another few decades.

So it's a question of balance between staying true to what was assumed from what was written and having an interesting not-solely-character-based plot. Plus, the suggestions about the lords are not exactly court intrigue, they are just rogue lords...


PS: Legate, I just remembered something I did not include in my list of important stuff that happened recently. Harreld has discovered osanwe, but in a limited form. You might have read about it already, but, just in case.

[Folwren]

Oh, wow. That was quickly dealt with. I guess it would be...makes sense.

I would be willing to take one of the lord's characters, so long as I have a clear idea of what needs to happen. I think I'm a little confused about everything that Nogrod said, but sometime when I have more free time, I will re-read it and then ask for clarification if I need it.

-- Folwren

[littlemanpoet]

I suppose I could argue further as to how such terms as "libertarian" and "utopia" are meaningless in the context of LOTR in general, and The Mark specifically. ;) However, how we discuss the upcoming scenario and how it actually gets written will most likely be two entirely different things, and if we are (more or less) true to the spirit of The Mark of the early 4th age, with rogue lords (which in the case of 4th age Mark would merely mean richer and more power landholders than those around them), then everything will be fine.

Speaking of which: the way it would really work in The Mark, economically, early 4th age, would be thus: The strata of government consist of king, eorls, and land holders. That's it. There is one king, now three eorls, and many landholders. Some landholders are more powerful and richer than others, and it would make sense that war veterans (if they took loot home especially), would be richer than most.

If these richer landholders are wily, they could perhaps (if they really put their minds to it) devise a plan that over the course of 14 years results in an additional layer of stratification because they were able to put a lot of other landholders around them in their debt, thus causing themselves to be seen as lords, especially seeing as this particular piece of The Mark seemed to get lost in the shuffle - which is why Eomer created the Middle Emnet Eorl in the first place. Would that work?

[Folwren]

Elempi and I are going to write a PM-post. :)

[Nogrod]

Oh, wow. That was quickly dealt with. I guess it would be...makes sense.Heh. Let's say it is quickly dealt for the time being.

As Eodwine asked for leave to discuss with Saeryn, Athanar thought it wise to not let the whole bunch just sit and wait - especially as Eodwine's words opened a kind of path that might lead into abandonment of furthering the whole case, or at least a serious reconsideration of it (if Saeryn would come to her senses after speaking with his husband etc.). So he decided just to punish Scyrr from his behaviour a) on forgetting his rank while drunk, and b) how he behaved there at the "court" - and let it open whether there would be added penalties for him; depending on Eodwine's and Saeryn's willingness to demand them (on the insult issue), or how the general public would react to this decision.

So you should probably write a scene between Saeryn and Eodwine as to, well first and foremost about their relation to be sure, but also about would they like to continue the case or let Scyrr off the hook with what he got there.

I suppose I could argue further as to how such terms as "libertarian" and "utopia" are meaningless in the context of LOTR in general, and The Mark specifically.And you would probably win that argument if anyone decided to take the opposite position... :) But yes, I only used them as shorthand markers referring to our previous discussion about the society in Mark - in which I think you used many phrases I have heard from American libertarians in today's discussion. But yes, labels are secondary things. The more important thing is to get a shared view on how that society "works" so that we have a common ground from where to write our characters and their reactions to different situations. In that vein I find your suggestions good ones in deed.


So yeah, let's say the primary way these three "landlords" have risen to their position at Mid Emnet is their stature as war-heroes, of course, but especially their economic power with which they have managed to turn some independent landholders (aka. farmers) into... being heavily debted to them - which someone else might call serfdom or slavery or peasantry - or whichever words one wishes to use (I'd know some more suitable terms in Finnish but I'm not sure if they mean the same in English so I'm not even trying them here). But yes they are free in some sense but so strongly tied to these wealthier lords by their debt they have no possibility but to obey them and live in poverty (not all should be in that sad situation, of course).

But the idea behind all this would then be, that they charge unfair interests of what they lend etc. So they use the others' plight into their own advantage.


There is one question though I think needs some thinking over.

So how about the power of judgement?

If I've gotten it right, one of the Mead Hall's basic functions is to stand as King's justice at the area. Before there had been none at Mid Emnet but now there would be. But how were disputes, arguments or crimes solved before? Everyone for himself? Mob rule? Surely they wouldn't take every issue to the king far away from their home - and the king wouldn't have time for them if that was a common way of doing things everywhere where there was no mead Hall around?

And even an "Althing"-kind of system where all the free men, or households, gathered to make decisions would require some people having special roles.

Now there are several mentionings in the thread that the lords (the three richest ones) have also being giving the law thus far. We can thus accept that (and come up with an explanation as to how that has happened), take thats as a mistake and go back editing all those parts from the thread, or just ignore that.

I think the best way to approach this is to come up with the best possible solution as to how the legal system of Mid Emnet would have worked and then see how it fits with what we have already written, and then deciding should we do something about what has been already written.

One scenario that comes to my mind would be a kind of a slow emergence of the "judical power" of our three lords (or two, or one of them if we wish).

Let's say that at year zero me and my neighbour have a dispute over whether I can use the pond at the borderline of our farms he uses to water his fields to water my livestock (okay, bad example, but whatever). So how do we determine that question if he thinks I have no right to water my stock from where he waters his fields, but I still think he has no right to deny me the use of the pond? Now it might enter our minds that there lives this great warhero nearby who has stature over us both and probably no personal interest on the matter. Why shouldn't we ask him what to do? And from cases like that, during the years, a decade, and more... it would have kind of become natural that a few people have the authority to judge on that kind of matters... and little by little they would have started to take care they gain from their "work as judges" of sorts?

Well, that's an idea. Other ideas?

[Folwren]

In the old Mead Hall, Eodwine held court. So maybe that sort of judicial system is already in place. Do you mean that the richer landlords, like Freduhelm (that's the elderly chap, right?) already carried on court like that, before Eodwine came to Scarburg?

-- Foley

[Galadriel55]

Freduhelm (that's the elderly chap, right?)

Friduhelm.

Nog, I think your scenario example of the evolution of the judicial system is very reasonable, and more than that, it sounds probable. :)

[Nogrod]

In the old Mead Hall, Eodwine held court. So maybe that sort of judicial system is already in place. Do you mean that the richer landlords, like Freduhelm (that's the elderly chap, right?) already carried on court like that, before Eodwine came to Scarburg?Yes and no...

I mean The Mead Halls, as I understand them, would be places where there would be a kind of King's legitimized court - like what Eodwine carried out in the older Mead Hall. Thus far there has been none like that in the Mid Emnet - and King Eomer has wished there to be one - and thus he has founded the Scarburg Mead Hall.

But what I was after was that there should have been some kind of system for making judgements on different disputes or crimes even when there hasn't been a Mead Hall as the legitimate King's court around.

My idea was, that in the absence of a Mead Hall and an eorl to make verdicts with the king's legitimation, the more powerful local lords might have kind of taken / gotten that priviledge to themselves as it seems clear there has to be some kind of a stage from where to settle the disputes there always will be. So it would not be a "court like that" aka.a Mead Hall, but something like a un-official (from king Eomer's POV) judical system working on a Mead Hall's place and which the locals had adopted... and which the lords might have then abused later on.

[littlemanpoet]

I have it! :)

We have a built in time of turmoil, in the War of the Ring.

There had been two eorls, the East Emnet and the West Emnet, with Meduseld as a "final arbiter". It was, however, most convenient for the people near Edoras, such as those of the Middle Emnet, to use Meduseld as their first court.

But the War created problems. For one, Saruman was keeping Theodred and Eomer (the two eorls) too busy, and (here's where things come in for the Middle Emnet), orcs and Dunlendings were running about. Now, granted, neither orcs nor Dunlendings had gotten to what is now the Middle Emnet, but Wormtongue had Theoden in thrall, for who knows how many years?

Now, while the three lords who are the war heroes in the area were away fighting, you had scum such as the previous owner of Scarburg taking advantage of Theoden's illness, robbing and pillaging as he pleased, and that didn't stop with the end of the war - now Theoden is dead and Eomer is very busy trying to reestablish order, doesn't have time for the regions near Edoras, so he appoints Eodwine as Eorl of the new Middle Emnet.

But before he does that, the three ware heroes are back, and use the nefariousness of what's-his-name who was at Scarburg, as their excuse to establish themselves as local arbiters, creating an expectation and precedent for themselves to be - sort of - sub-eorls. So there it is, and they got used to it, and they didn't take kindly to there suddenly being a new Eorl in the area who has the king's authority.

So the simple non-warrior landowners - farmers who are not warriors - are by this time poor, their lands overrun, depleted and whatnot by robbers and such, and the three lords taken advantage of their suffering by putting them in their debt - easy enough to do by loaning them what they need at sharp interest.

What do you think? :)

[Galadriel55]

*applauds*


And once you have power and people in debt you can go on increasing that debt and that power. I recall from Athanar's visit to Faramund's place that Faramund put a man in bond because he borrowed money and could not pay it back, so Faramund took all his land, or something of that sort. And now the old man is basically a slave, except that he's not called that.

So it's quite possible to create a "money drainage system" that way. Just suck out more and more for every little bit people owe you, and make it impossible for them to pay back, and you're in power and abusing it.

So...yeah.

[Nogrod]

I like that lmp!

Especially as it loops back to from where this Mead Hall began - coming to the ruins of a place that had been burnt. Maybe our characters are still all quite newbies around these corners of the land? :smokin:

I remember we then had some ideas as to our characters trying to "find out" what had happened there - and there were different suggestions to form a plot from there which were in turn forgotten as other, more pressing things started to happen.

But something along these lines would give us interesting prospects of also coming back to that original mystery - and how local people or our three "lords" were involved with it.

I like it very much!

[Galadriel55]

Perhaps the lords rebelled against the old eorl/lord/ruler of Scarburg because he was of Wormtongue's sort, and mistreated his subjects, and etc., and thus gained the trust and support of their people (and also burned the Meadhall). Yet after a while they started doing it themselves (and the rebellion would give them enough initial power to start the drainage).

Too complicated? No? What do you think?

[littlemanpoet]

His name was Sorn and he abducted the princess of Dol Amroth that was at Scarburg for a little while. "Abduction in Edoras" was the rpg and can be found in Elvenhome. From it Scyld was introduced, not to mention Scarburg itself, but without that name.

So there never was an eorl at Scarburg until Eodwine. Just setting the record straight. ;)

Might be a useful tour of about 4 pages if you want the background on Scarburg, G55. :)

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12824

[Nogrod]

Never use those "undo" and "redo" buttons unless you really know how they work! :mad:

I had a longish post on the making and managed to delete part of it because the laptop had decided to paint a part of the text when I was pushing the delete-button for an extra letter... the result: everything gone. :(

I soo hate technology when it offers you no recall of what you have just done.

So let me try and be brief as it's getting considerably late in here.


Yes Galadriel. It might be an idea Wormtongue appointed that Scarburg Hall owner into an eorlship (it would be quite blasphemous but it might work for our story) - and that it had been kind of forgotten from the POV of Meduseld (no one probably knew or remembered it there). But was he a wrongly apppinted eorl or not, he would have taken a kind of role of an eorl there when all the decent eorlinga were fighting the war - and that would also explain why not all the farmers around look at the present Mead Hall positively as they have bad memories on how things were handled by that place earlier...

But another issue took me over then, and it was a question of the three warlords' ancestry. So had they lived at the Mid Emnet for all their lives or had they been moving there only after the war. And then I got this idea I think might serve us well with developing the plot.

So how about, after the war, Friduhelm aged about 35 then came back to the age-old home of his family - where little Faramund (then probably five or something) was happy to meet him back from the war. Now he would then be about fifty, so a little older than Athanar and Eodwine and their mate form the war - and Faramund would be like twenty.

Alboin would have come back to his home as well but with different feelings as he would have carried his father's corpse with him back home. So Alboin, about age twenty back then, would have had to assume the leadership of his family at that young age and to bury his father. War and the death of his father might be things, which added to too much power too early, might have made him into the nasty character he is. That story might need some twists and they shouldn't be too hard to come up with, but let's not dwell into them here.

But then I think Tancred should be originally from somewhere else. He has been the kind of leader there until now and he is a highly ranked commander from the war. Right. But how about he is originally from Westfold or from the Fords of Isen - and at last coming back from the war he found his home and village burnt down by the Dunledings / Saruman's orcs, and none alive in the whole village?

Now king Eomer might have wished to show honour to his great captain and help him with his loss by giving him a vacant rich farm from the Mid Emnet? And thus he would have moved in - with possibly a later found original servant or even a child! (I'd love the idea he had a daughter who had escaped the Dunledings and found his dad after five years or something, but yes, let's see if we have use for these complexities)

Whatever, Tancred would be like 55 now (if Eodwine and Athanar are forty-somethings). Still in good health and top intelligence if not in a top form anymore. But with his charisma and commanding stature he would do away with any challenge he might face at Mid Emnet (aided by a handful of eorlinga riding for him). Unless Eodwine or Athanar can prove it otherwise...


But then I got also an idea for Friduhelm. I mean why is he different, why is he not that happy to go with the others even if he clearly is binded to them and has more or less followed their ways until giving the lordship of his house to his son?

Let's create some psychological skeletons to help us with that.

Tancred made war as a great commander and beat the enemy at the Pelennor fields. When he got home he realised it had been for nothing to himself as all his efforts hadn't saved his family. Despite the victory of the nation he felt he had lost everything he had - which is kind of true. So he grew nihilistic or at least cold of emotions to shut the tragedy out from his mind. And that might then explain how he was able to turn into an oppressive "landlord" at his late years. A bitter old man who thought he owed anyone nothing and that others owed him everything...

Alboin was shocked in a similar vein, but being so young when all this happened and brining the corpse of his father back to his home he had only been given all the responsibilities and troubles of leading the family, when he would have just wished to cry for his dad. Now why Eodwine thought him a coward might come important here: maybe it was partly because of Alboin's cowardice his father died? In that situation he would be haunted by his bad conscience - and even if many people carry that kind of loads for no good reason - they feel very real for those who carry them. And that would be the starting point of his "downfall" into a brutal exploitation of his surrounding farmers and trying to raise his status...

Friduhelm in turn could have been like Tancred's second in command or something along the lines during the war: like that they would have been really close and admired each other (at least Athanar thought highly of him and I think it was written somewhere that Eodwine both knew and honoured him as well). So Friduelm - who had been able to come back to a family - had not faced such troubles the other two had and stayed sane on his mind. So even if a war-experience always tends to leave it's mark on people, and Friduhelm surely had his own problems, he never got into that mode Tancred and Alboin got into. But appreciating Tancred so much he didn't wish or dare to rise up against him (and we could come up with endeless possibilities to the nuances of this storyline) and in the end rather gave up his lordship to his son to "wash his hands" from everything he saw happening. Lord Athanar's visit might have awaken him from that state, but if he will be killed because of that... then that's bad (but a good story).


What did I say? A short version then? :D

[Nogrod]

Sorn! Yes. I actually remember that name now when reminded of it...

And we should keep him with or without the added plot that Wormtongue had something to do with his stature.

Hev was "the man" during the war and took every advantage of people around. Then enter the "lords" (ours) + 13-14 years.

Now what exactly happened then we probably need not know, but we should have some outlines about the developement of things (see my post above for some rudiments).

Anyway things ended in a way that Sorn and his place were burned by someone - and probably not 14 years ago but a lot closer to our time?

[Galadriel55]

Anyway things ended in a way that Sorn and his place were burned by someone - and probably not 14 years ago but a lot closer to our time?

When Eodwine&co. arrived at the ruins of the Meadhall they found a body or too - and enough of it to make me think that if it was dead for 15 years it would have been in a worse state. So I second that guess. I could go back and look for the place in the thread if you think it's an important bit.

Firefoot did not forget to mention Sorn as Scyld's master - and not a very nice on either, but I have not associated him with the previous lord of Scarburg.

And I shall read that RPG. And maybe at some point I'll read the White Horse Inn (that's where it began, right? Or am I mixing things up?) I do have quite a bit to catch up to...

[Nogrod]

When Eodwine&co. arrived at the ruins of the Meadhall they found a body or too - and enough of it to make me think that if it was dead for 15 years it would have been in a worse state. So I second that guess. I could go back and look for the place in the thread if you think it's an important bit.
I think that part should be readily available at the beginning of the Scarburg Mead Hall thread as if I remember it right this thread begins with Eodwine & co coming into this place... so anything related to that should be there in the first page (about) and also in the first pages of the discussion thread.


By the way, this Scyld, then... now I remember many people mistook him with Scyrr, but what is his history and what is he in the first place? If anyone of you has a decent idea, would you share that?

[Galadriel55]

By the way, this Scyld, then... now I remember many people mistook him with Scyrr, but what is his history and what is he in the first place? If anyone of you has a decent idea, would you share that?

I used to confuse them at first too. Scyld was sold to Sorn by his father (I forget the exact reason), and was in his service for 13 years when Linduial was abducted (just read that, so the number is exact). In another day or two I would be able to tell you how he managed to survive through that business and then join the new Meadhall. From the hints Firefoot dropped about him in the SMH thread, he helped Linduial's escape and I believe killed Sorn... but maybe not... Firefoot, could you just tell us instead of me? You would know best. :)

[littlemanpoet]

Unless we want to revise feigned history: The Middle Emnet did not exist as a separate entity before Eodwine was appointed as its eorl. There was no eorl at Scarburg because there was no eorl there at all. Not until Eodwine. This is covered toward the end of The Eorling Meadhall thread.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12545

See, Bethberry used to be the host of The White Horse Inn and asked me to take over. I did by replacing the White Horse Inn with The Eorling Mead Hall, but the way it was treated in the storyline was that Bethberry, the character who owned the Inn, sold it to Eodwine and went to visit her mother Goldberry (but that is another story). Anyway, to give The Eorling Mead Hall some reason to exist as the entity I had envisioned, I had Eomer create Eodwine as the eorl of the newly founded Middle Emnet.

It felt strange that the Eorling Mead Hall was in Edoras, just a walk away from Meduseld - which literally means Mead Hall in Anglo-Saxon. So when Sorn's land came free, I got to thinking that it made more sense for the Mead Hall of Middle Emnet to NOT be in Edoras, but in the middle of Middle Emnet. And it just so happened that Sorn's lands, which were renamed Scarburg, suited just right.

When Eodwine and company rescued Linduial, Sorn's keep was not burned down. So it got burned down in the short interim between then and Eodwine and company showing up there to live - a matter of months at most.

Hope that helps to give reasonable background.

[Firefoot]

...and seems not a moment too soon. Y'all have been busy this summer. I've skimmed the last couple pages of discussion thread and it looks like interesting things are happening.

Summary of Scyld: Pressed into Sorn's service because his father owed a large debt to Sorn, and he was there for something like 12 years (at the end though it was voluntary since his term was up - but he didn't have anywhere else to go). During Linduial's kidnapping, Scyld served as her jailor and through conversations with her he basically decided that Linduial was more worthy to help than Sorn and he helped her escape. She asked him to come back to Edoras with him and said that she would ensure his pardon, but although Scyld sort of wanted to believe her his life experience didn't really leave him any room to believe in the mercy of authority figures. When Eodwine & co. arrived at Scarburg, Scyld decided to come and see what the people were like that Linduial told him all about. Also partly for a lack of anything else to do... he's sort of adrift right now.

Relevance to current affairs... Scyld would be very familiar with the politics of the area, though he would be really reluctant to admit it because then people might be able to start making connections about his past.

[littlemanpoet]

...and seems not a moment too soon. ... Relevance to current affairs... Scyld would be very familiar with the politics of the area, though he would be really reluctant to admit it because then people might be able to start making connections about his past.

Indeed! Glad you're back. Speaking of relevance to current affairs, I'm thinking that those who know of Scyld - say Faramund for example might - that the Scyld/Rowenna plot line could get tangled up in this whole thing in unforeseen yet interesting ways.

Thoughts, Firefoot?

Just thinking - S & R have more or less agreed to speak to each other about their pasts, in a sort of tit for tat careful self-protective way.... ;)

[Firefoot]

Any potential history you're coming up for the area and the motives for the landlords should account for Sorn somehow - he's not been dead for even a year yet. It might be easiest to put Sorn at about the same level as the other local lords and to say that they all got along well enough in a live and let live sort of way. This would make it highly probable that someone would recognize Scyld - Sorn had a very small household and you could probably say that Scyld was like a trusted lieutenant/servant.

If that was so, Sycld would probably personally know people at other farms... though he wouldn't have been friends with them because he doesn't trust people, and they probably wouldn't have trusted him anyway because Sorn was a pretty bad and kind of crazy dude. So maybe contact was fairly minimal...

And yes, Scyld and Rowenna certainly have things to say to each other, but darned if I know what. ;) Did Rowenna know Linduial?

[littlemanpoet]

Looking back through our feigned history, I found some things that might be worth remembering:

First, to answer Firefoot's question, Linduial left The Eorling Mead Hall some little time before Rowenna arrived. So they don't know each other.

Second, there's this little piece of context:

"An aptly put question," Eodwine replied. "The King's command is for me to move my seat of rule from Edoras. He has given me Sorn's lands to be my own."

"But that's some of the poorest land in the realm!" cried Garstan, who had had a first hand look when they had rescued Linduial, the niece of the Eorling queen, from the outlaw Sorn.

Eodwine nodded. "I am aware of that, of course. The King has commanded me to drain the marshes near Sorn's holdings, and every inch I can make to grow crops or feed cattle, is mine for the claiming. On either side of the Scar."

"Scar? What's that?" asked Falco.

"Its'a rocky spine that runs east to west across a small portion of the plains. It is of little use, but one cannot simply move entire hills one does not like. We shall have to see what can be done with them. At any rate, I've decided to call the place Scarburg. It seemed fitting. So it will fall to each of you whether you wish to stay here, at the White Horse Inn, or to come with me to Scarburg, for the King will let me keep this Inn, so that it may once again be a hostelry for travelers who are willing to pay for room and board. So that is hwo it is."

It may be that only the Scarburg area is really marshy land; but this may extend elsewhere near the Scar, making it even harder for some farmers nearby.

I'm sure that neither Scyld nor Rowenna have any idea what to say to each other, but it'll happen on the fly when they're in each other's presence and chemistry takes over. :p

[Firefoot]

So what happens now? The Scyrr subplot is wrapped up, so what's going on for the rest of the day?

[littlemanpoet]

There are a couple things:

1. Harreld & Theolain and Ledwyn continue their storyline.
2. Laerdil is ready to communicate with whomever.
3. Scyld and Rowenna may cross swords again.

The first one needs resolution today; the second can be left hanging and so can the third, but all three could be followed up.

[Galadriel55]

As for the first one, I thought I wrapped up the Ledwyn part of it, in a sense, but it's not a problem to add something to it anytime.

And I'm not sure as to how to go about the Harreld&Theolain part. Between them I posted last, but the post was very inconclusive and vague. I think we should decide on what is going to happen and then, uh, make it happen. There's Kara involved too - Saeryn sent her to fing the boy. Would Harreld catch him before she comes?

[littlemanpoet]

I forgot Kara's writer isn't around.

[Nogrod]

So what happens now? The Scyrr subplot is wrapped up, so what's going on for the rest of the day?Unless Eodwine and Saeryn are of a mind Scyrr needs to be punished from things other than Athanar punished him from already... I mean he was punished from his behaviour, lack of respect, stepping outside his rank etc. from what Athanar knows for sure aka. what happened at the hall and what he admitted there. But he has left it open that if the two have more to ask he would be willing to add to the punishment if the request was substantial (well nyway, if there was something he didn't know about) and shown over a reasonable doubt.

What comes to the other loose ends, I don't think we need to tie every knot before opening new vistas for the story - but at the same time I'd encourage everyone to wrap up this day.

Meanwhile we should plan a bit what the major storyline would be concerning the upcoming plot.

IT was a good spotting that Sorn's hall was burnt down just little before Eodwine and his hall moved in - so it means there has been a recent resentment among the people there, at least some.

Maybe those who were discontent wished to halt any further action to see whether Eodwine took the reons and did something - and now when Athanar then has done something they'd become emboldened? A secret plot then? Possibly involving our friends Scyld and Stedford?

Or maybe burning down Sorn's house was more of a local affair? BUt maybe sympathised by other oppressed around? ANd during the summer people would have met secretly to come up with a plan - and now they would argue whether to act alone or ask for the eorl's help?

Numerous possibilities here. What do you think?

[littlemanpoet]

Eodwine won't ask for additional punishments.

I guess my thought of why the place was burned down was resentment about Sorn, and the burning was adding insult to injury. But just as much, there was stuff left there and nobody guarding it, and looting occurred. Whoever looted (and left the dead body in the meat locker) burned the place to hide the evidence.

Whether Scyld had something to do with that is for Firefoot to say.

[Nogrod]

Eodwine won't ask for additional punishments.
I thought as much.. and I think Athanar thought the same - but he can't be 100% sure...

I guess my thought of why the place was burned down was resentment about Sorn, and the burning was adding insult to injury. But just as much, there was stuff left there and nobody guarding it, and looting occurred. Whoever looted (and left the dead body in the meat locker) burned the place to hide the evidence.So let's think about this. Those farmers who lived in the proximity of Sorn were badly treated by him (and Sorn operated in accordance / in cahoots with our three lords anyway). Maybe Sorn was the worst or maybe he had the most independent-minded / hot-headed people living around him and they decided enough was enough and some of them burnt the place down? After it was burnt down they looted what they thought they were due - and maybe some others were drawn in as well to make gains from there.

The question then becomes IMO how the other farmers living nearer our three lords would have reacted to that? Is it like a local "Arab spring" when they tell themselves "yeah, we need to rise up against these guys as well, let's just prepare first" or is it more like "well things need to change, but not in that manner", or "cool, but we don't dare trying that", or something else altogether?

Am I right in thinking that it is something like less than a half-year or about half year when Sorn's place was burnt down? It was summer or late summer when Eodwine came, right? And we have been writing about crispy autumn days and of need to get supplies for the winter - but it sure isn't winter yet. Right?

Whether Scyld had something to do with that is for Firefoot to say.
Agreed. And then what she thinks will also make a real difference as to how the plot would be... so Firefoot, do you have any strong opinions and if yes, which are they?

[Firefoot]

Scyld wouldn't have been involved with the burning. Following Linduial's kidnapping and rescue, Scyld's impulse was to get away from there - he only came back when he found out the place was being inhabited again. Those several months are something of a blank spot in his story right now, but I wouldn't say anything very important happened then.

However, it could be very interesting if he were accused of it (maybe by the true culprit?) - he certainly has a motive, and if it comes out how much of his past he's been hiding he'd look extremely suspicious, I'd imagine.

[littlemanpoet]

My thought is that this is not an uprising but an opportunistic moment; people who had been abused by Sorn went and got payback.

But that does leave the mystery of the dead body.

And I can see Rowenna, once she thinks of it, or learns just enough about Scyld, will think that he may be guilty and in a bit of twisted loyalty will become protective of him, causing some fun misunderstandings and otherwise inexplicable actions and words. :D

We really need to do some follow-up on that dead body.

[Firefoot]

Sorry if I've left you with a difficult hook, lmp - I'm feeling a little rusty...

Also, wanted to say that my time online may be limited in the next two weeks.

[littlemanpoet]

No problem, I'm too distracted by RL to deal with this minor issue right now. But I'll get to it.

[Nogrod]

Let's not take blame anyone.

We all have our lives and obligations.


In principle I think we should take a week or two to wrap up the things that are going on the day we're writing about right now. Possiby three weeks as I'm going to be quite busy for a while when the schools start next week.

Meanwhile we can plan a little what kind of a scenario we're putting in front of us. I think there seems to be a general agreement at the moment about some outlines of it, but it will not be enough when we start writing about it.

So any input is warmly welcomed!

I mean I can come up with any kind of scenarios and I bet lmp can do it as well - but it would be great to hear other suggestions as well...

[littlemanpoet]

Hah! :D Leave it to Scyld and Rowenna to prolong this day... :D

I'll write before the weekend is out.

[Galadriel55]

Should we finish the day faster or get the Scyld-Rowenna plot more interesting? I have an idea about the second, but it can wait if we're prioritising the first.

[Firefoot]

Sort of depends on what Rowenna says next, I guess - whether curiosity or duty comes first... as I see it, either way it's going to happen, it's more a question of how long they have to brood about it first. :D ;)

[littlemanpoet]

Far be it from me to hold things up for everybody else while two writers take over the whole thread. I've posted so that we can move to a new day. I guess we could go to the new day right away, or Firefoot could write one more post for Scyld, if she is so inclned.

[Galadriel55]

I edited the second half of my last post because I wrote it in a hurry and didn't finish it the way I wanted to. It doesn't change the story in the end, but I thought I should mention it.

[Folwren]

Sorry about my long absence. I don't know how consistant I will be now that school is about to start up. We'll see. I hope I do not have any leading characters in the upcoming plot, because I don't know what's about to happen. Once I catch on and if I can find a groove in it, then I'll more likely join in. I'm looking forward to seeing what follows.

-- Folwren

[littlemanpoet]

Um, if nothing's going to happen, maybe I should change Rowenna's response and at least have something happen. What do you think?

[Nogrod]

Sorry about being away for some time, but schools started last week and I have been mega-busy. Things should eventully calm down in a short while, though.

[Firefoot]

Things are about to calm down for me, as well. I can either respond to the post as is and move to the next day, or whatever. Very likely tomorrow.

[littlemanpoet]

I changed it. Your go, Firefoot.

[Galadriel55]

Umm, Elempi, small correction - Theolain is of no help at all to anyone who doesn't want to demolish the place. :)

[littlemanpoet]

Umm, Elempi, small correction - Theolain is of no help at all to anyone who doesn't want to demolish the place. :)

Oops! :D Sorry about that - still getting to know them. Fixed.

[Firefoot]

Elempi - I was just looking over some old conversations between Scyld and Rowenna and discovered that Scyld has already told her a much summarized and somewhat falsified tale of his connection to Scarburg. I'd totally forgotten and in case you had too it's the first post on page 6. I don't know if that background information will color their conversation at all but I figure it might.

[littlemanpoet]

I read it, Firefoot. It's a pack of lies! :D Worth remembering.

I'm going to be on the road Friday through Sunday, so I probably won't be posting then.

[Firefoot]

Elempi - any thoughts on what would have happened to Osfrid and Muriel? I looked through the old Eorling Mead Hall thread and couldn't find any mention of them.

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry for my delay. I do not know about Osfrid and Muriel. I believe we are free to create their history. Do you have a sense for whose body this was? I had not thought that it could be a female, though it was never stated that it was not.

I'd like to get a sense for what you and others think before I post on the thread.

[Firefoot]

I really have no idea. Sorn's household as potrayed in the Abduction RPG was quite small, so there's a pretty limited list of options if we want it to be a character who's been introduced before. Otherwise, it could be anyone... and regardless of who the body is, the perpetrators are really up for grabs. Also, was it a deliberate murder? An accident of some sort?

[littlemanpoet]

My opinion was that it was supposed to have occurred during the burning, and was probably an accident. But it need not be that way. So it could be one of the arsonists, or not. And the arsonists, to my understanding, were looters who had resentment and decided to take it out on the memory of Sorn by burning what they couldn't take with them.

[Firefoot]

That sounds like the most likely explanation to me as well, though I would say that if you wanted to hide a body, an old burned out homestead would be a good place to do it. Probably the simplest explanation is best though.

[littlemanpoet]

Sounds good to me.

However.... ;) :D ... this will give Rowenna a chance to suggest her suspcions, however carefully and as "their little secret" that Scyld has more to do with the dead body than mere acquaintance with the soul that once lived in it.....

[Galadriel55]

It's possible to tie in the dead body with toMorrow's plot, hm?

*walks off to ponder on it*

[Folwren]

Okay. I am sorry about my long absense.

Have we discussed further about the more involved plot that was being discussed a couple months ago with Nogrod and others?

I will put an effort into being here more.

[littlemanpoet]

Dinna fash ye'sel', Foley.

I'm trying to recall what that plotting was all about. :confused:

[Folwren]

Heh...I am not recalling perfectly, either. It involved the other landlords, so to speak - uprisings, and the like.

[littlemanpoet]

As far as I'm concerned, this day is now done. Anything having to do with follow up on Scyld and Rowenna can be written as remembered stuff, I think. Shall we move on to a new day? How far in the future?

[Firefoot]

Yes, let's move the timeline forward. Anywhere from the next day to a week, I'd say - I don't really have a strong preference.

Is Nogrod around at all? I feel like he was really key in some of the subplot planning that was going on around the uprising of the local lords.

[littlemanpoet]

Tancred made war as a great commander and beat the enemy at the Pelennor fields. When he got home he realised it had been for nothing to himself as all his efforts hadn't saved his family. Despite the victory of the nation he felt he had lost everything he had - which is kind of true. So he grew nihilistic or at least cold of emotions to shut the tragedy out from his mind. And that might then explain how he was able to turn into an oppressive "landlord" at his late years. A bitter old man who thought he owed anyone nothing and that others owed him everything...

Alboin was shocked in a similar vein, but being so young when all this happened and brining the corpse of his father back to his home he had only been given all the responsibilities and troubles of leading the family, when he would have just wished to cry for his dad. Now why Eodwine thought him a coward might come important here: maybe it was partly because of Alboin's cowardice his father died? In that situation he would be haunted by his bad conscience - and even if many people carry that kind of loads for no good reason - they feel very real for those who carry them. And that would be the starting point of his "downfall" into a brutal exploitation of his surrounding farmers and trying to raise his status...

Friduhelm in turn could have been like Tancred's second in command or something along the lines during the war: like that they would have been really close and admired each other (at least Athanar thought highly of him and I think it was written somewhere that Eodwine both knew and honoured him as well). So Friduelm - who had been able to come back to a family - had not faced such troubles the other two had and stayed sane on his mind. So even if a war-experience always tends to leave it's mark on people, and Friduhelm surely had his own problems, he never got into that mode Tancred and Alboin got into. But appreciating Tancred so much he didn't wish or dare to rise up against him (and we could come up with endeless possibilities to the nuances of this storyline) and in the end rather gave up his lordship to his son to "wash his hands" from everything he saw happening. Lord Athanar's visit might have awaken him from that state, but if he will be killed because of that... then that's bad (but a good story).

There. Good reminder. So let's use this, and Rowenna's and Scyld's questionings as some of the bases for the new day, and Athanar chooses which of the three to deal with first. But never that simple. :D

Shall we start the new day a week later?

[Galadriel55]

I'm putting this down as a reminder to myself mostly, but also as a thought of what else except for the main plot could be going on the next day.

-Ledwyn will approach one of the women (either Rowenna or Saeryn) to ask about what she overheard.
-Ledwyn will eventually have to talk to Laerdil, but not necessarily the next day.
-Laerdil and Harreld also wanted to have a chat at some point, I believe?...

I think that's all, and I am sure I will be corrected quickly if I missed something.

[littlemanpoet]

Is my last post problematic?

My thinking is that Athanar and Eodwine both learn of the matter and Athanar delegates it to Eodwine since Rowenna is Eodwine's guest/friend/charge.

I left it a cliff hanger because I want to think and have some input as to what Rowenna may have found. It may be that she has found nothing but folks unwilling to say who has gone missing; or she may have a list of a good half dozen. Of this list, maybe the body can be found, or maybe the list doesn't include the body at all.

Thoughts?

[Firefoot]

I think it's fine - just to be clear though, this is a private meeting?

I'm planning to post... soon... the last week has been busy.

[littlemanpoet]

Yes, private.

[littlemanpoet]

If We're All Too Busy For The Complexities, Should We Perhaps Go Back To The Simple Stuff? At Least That Way We're Enjoying Ourselves And Are Not Intimidated By The Amount Of Energy And Time This Would Take. Thoughts?

[littlemanpoet]

It seems we're all too busy for a serious plot, so I changed up my last post.

Since Christmastide is near, I thought it might be fun to brighten spirits around Scarburg for yuletide. Perchance this will make it so it won't take so much brain power to post, and it just might be fun. I hope you like the idea. :)

[Kyani]

Hey everyone.... I was wondering if I could introduce a character who might come to the Meadhall occaisonally? She's a character from a fanfic I'm working on, a girl orginally from Rohan who disappeared in one of Saruman's earliest raids, and then reappeared briefly in her village--pregnant--and was put out by her father. She now lives in the forest with a child, and is sure she can't come home. It would be fun to see how she is greeted, now that the war has ended... but of course she can't bring her child.

[littlemanpoet]

Hey everyone.... I was wondering if I could introduce a character who might come to the Meadhall occaisonally? She's a character from a fanfic I'm working on, a girl orginally from Rohan who disappeared in one of Saruman's earliest raids, and then reappeared briefly in her village--pregnant--and was put out by her father. She now lives in the forest with a child, and is sure she can't come home. It would be fun to see how she is greeted, now that the war has ended... but of course she can't bring her child.

Welcome, Kyani. You're welcome to write on the Scarburg Meadhall thread after you "jump through" the small set of hoops the moderators have set up in order to make sure you're for real and willing to be a good barrowdowns role player. Read the "Sticky" and follow the directions there, and you're good to go. - Elempi

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17230

[Snowdog]

So where does a thirsty Ranger get an ale around here? There hasn't been any activity in the RP forums since December last year. Is there no room for a light RP Inn around here? Just curious.:smokin:

[littlemanpoet]

Light may be just the thing. If you post, I'll post. Let's see where this goes, eh?

:)

[littlemanpoet]

Anybody still want to do this? :)

[Mithalwen]

I would love to RPG again but haven't been in this hall IIRC

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oho, such ancientry... I would enjoy being part of some RPGing again, and this one was nice, but I think first big project would be trying to figure out where we are and what in the name of all is currently happening...

[littlemanpoet]

Mithalwen, feel free to read the beginning posts of this discussion thread for the basics here. We'd love to have you.

And Legate, we can take time with getting this restarted. After all, we have to recruit enough people to be involved, and that could take time. No hurry.

[Snowdog]

I could be up for it as long as it doesn't bog down into 'this rule' or 'that rule' and 'can you edit your post to make the one I'm going to post fit' type of stuff. ;)

And yeah, archiving as we go.

[Nogrod]

Seeing that it has been a couple of years the Mead Hall has worked I'd strongly suggest we'd come up with a new one - or even better - take a time-leap to let us refresh the company of writers and characters. A leap in time (aka. not a leap in space) would allow using some of the old characters - which would be nice as I think many of us who wrote them the last time were growing quite fond of or even close with them - while giving us a natural opportunity to bring on new writers and characters.

I agree with Snowdog up to a point.

I really disliked the over-control freaking of some game-hosts - or players - of the earlier days (even if someone is the host / mod / patron, that doesn't mean it is your story alone), but I have seen the other side of the matter too where someone has fex. used my character in totally odd ways in no way fitting in to the personality, or rushing things forwards unnecessarily just for one's impatience when others have had clear and openly expressed intent of writing something for their part in a day or two on a particular situation before things get moving forwards storywise.

With good will and wish to do things together and honoring each others' contributions we can achieve a lot without unnecessary or constraining rules.


Talking of organizing, I'd be happy to give you Littlemanpoet the reins of the Mead Hall again (I don't think I have the time or resources to lead it), but I could think of letting Athanar or Stigend (and Cnebba!) to stay and to write for them - or then take on just a totally new character.

So count me in.

[Mithalwen]

I have read the bits at the beginning but I don't have the time to read 35 pages of story before getting started really... so a time leap would work for me. My old character, won't work since he is tied to the Edoras area so I must start from scratch there.. so if there is a need for a particular type of character I would consider running with that. However if the extant characters want to pick up where they left off brief idea of what is going on would help or at least a suitable jumping in point in those 35 pages....

[Galadriel55]

Oh gosh... I would say I would join (time not-very-permitting), but I've forgotten who all the characters are! :o I will have to do a major review if this is to be revived.

[Nogrod]

If we're not in a super-hurry, I think lmp and myself could come up with a short(ish) intro into what has happened before, and maybe some ideas as to where we'd jump.

Although I think it would be nice to have ideas as to where to jump especially from you who have been at the Mead Hall already and have at least a rough idea where we have been thus far.

So which things, relations, general background trends, overall developments etc. you'd like to keep and which you'd rather get rid of?

Any brand new ideas from people who haven't been writing to the Mead Hall previously?

[Firefoot]

Yes! Count me in.

Aside from a general drop off in writers, I feel like where we really got stuck there at the end was with figuring out what to do with that body that was discovered... I at least didn't have any good ideas.

[Inziladun]

I never was involved in this game, but I got my feet wet a while back, and had fun with a minor role (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17211). I think I'd like to do it again.

[Thinlómien]

After disappearing for several years, I could humbly stalk back. But I need to do some research about what my characters were up to, or maybe somebody could quickly brief me -

I suppose you've been using Modtryth as a background character, her being one of the household serving women, right? Nothing special? (Even though if I keep writing for her, I should probably also figure out if anything special happened to Stigend or Cnebba, and maybe what happened recently in general!)

And what of Athanar's good-for-nothing sons whose names I have momentarily forgotten? (Great, now Legate reminds me: Wulfric and Wilheard. Oh gosh they were awful.) Did they stay around or were they sent away to do some soldiering and growing up?

Mmm, maybe I'll plague Nogrod (or Legate?) irl about all this...

Anyway, I need to think if I want to keep playing these folks, or whether I should introduce a new character again (and leave Modtryth as a NPC and/or keep W&W out of Scarburg) - I think I should try to keep a sensible amount of characters...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think it would be great to kick this off, and I think any previously uninvolved players coming in (or old players coming back) would be a great thing (Mith, Zil, Snowdog)... that might help starting it up.

If we're not in a super-hurry, I think lmp and myself could come up with a short(ish) intro into what has happened before, and maybe some ideas as to where we'd jump.

Although I think it would be nice to have ideas as to where to jump especially from you who have been at the Mead Hall already and have at least a rough idea where we have been thus far.

So which things, relations, general background trends, overall developments etc. you'd like to keep and which you'd rather get rid of?

Any brand new ideas from people who haven't been writing to the Mead Hall previously?
I think time jump sounds reasonable. The main thing would be probably to figure out how is the Mead Hall working now, or what has happened, who is in charge, who is around (maybe the "shuffling of lords" can somehow also account in "shuffling of characters, if we have new players and some older ones are not around) etc. If there's any way I can help with brainstorming, I'm here, although probably the main portion would rest with Nog and LMP, them also being around in the game since its beginnings.

Yes! Count me in.

Aside from a general drop off in writers, I feel like where we really got stuck there at the end was with figuring out what to do with that body that was discovered... I at least didn't have any good ideas.
"Body? What body!!!" <= further proof that I have no recollection whatsoever of what happened.

In either case, I'd be really happy to pick up Hilderinc again and now take up the chance to flesh him out a bit more. Maybe even pick up another random character or former NPC (maybe some of the other fellow soldiers originally invented for background, or who knows) - not that I want to overload myself (now that we have the 'Downs again, a classic trap), but I think more than one character will give me a bit more freedom of interaction also at times when one is "out of sight" of the main happenings (which tended to happen, now that I read back. Of course having one character was intentional when I was starting in the Mead Hall, I didn't want to take too many characters before I knew the place and all, but now I think the situation would be different).

And what happened in the end to Scyrr, the annoying and fighty guy who was originally a NPC, and then I believe several people even "adopted" his character for a time? (Strangely, I think he turned out to get much more personality than some "full-time" characters.) Probably nothing, but he was fun to have around - also a good "catalyser", I'd be for keeping him, whoever handles him. Or, if we do a larger time-jump, it might be even fairly interesting to have characters like him "developed".

In any case, yes. Let's figure out where we want to start off now, first of all.

[Thinlómien]

PS. I have absolutely no idea what has happened in Scarburg during my absence so pardon me if this doesn't make sense, but I would even advocate a longer time jump - 3 years, 5 years, even 10 years - that would open up interesting opportunities for character development and aging up the younger characters (even though I do like tiny Cnebba)...

PPS. I guess the character/player list is not up to date? In any case we will have to update it...

[Nogrod]

I was actually also thinking more like a 3 - 5- 10 year jump - like giving it a good kick forward and then seeing who's still around (oops - a teen-Cnebba would be hilarious - or unbearable).

That would both pose a nice challenge to those who have written there already - to adapt to their characters who are older and maybe the overall situation has also changed - but also give new writers more freedom to come up with their characters.

[Thinlómien]

Also if we're doing a longer time jump and introducing new characters, would we again start a new game thread and a new discussion thread?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

PS. I have absolutely no idea what has happened in Scarburg during my absence so pardon me if this doesn't make sense, but I would even advocate a longer time jump - 3 years, 5 years, even 10 years - that would open up interesting opportunities for character development and aging up the younger characters (even though I do like tiny Cnebba)...

I was actually also thinking more like a 3 - 5- 10 year jump - like giving it a good kick forward and then seeing who's still around (oops - a teen-Cnebba would be hilarious - or unbearable).

That would both pose a nice challenge to those who have written there already - to adapt to their characters who are older and maybe the overall situation has also changed - but also give new writers more freedom to come up with their characters.
I think a longer time jump would actually be great. Will give chance to pick up the old characters and put them into a new perspective by making them grown up again a bit, and also it would make it easier for newer players to join in, of course. But of course, that's all open.

Also if we're doing a longer time jump and introducing new characters, would we again start a new game thread and a new discussion thread?
Hm. A new thread also for discussion might possibly be easier also for those who want to join in, since then one can also neatly sum up the necessary points in the beginning of it, so that people don't have to search for it in tons of old posts on page 199 of 325...

[Firefoot]

Hmmm. For Leof I'd be fine with a longer jump, less sure about Scyld. I could make it work, I guess, though with where I was at with him when the story dropped off, a few years could make a huge difference. For him I'd probably favor something shorter - months? But if we do go longer I think I'd still favor only a couple years, not something drastic like 10.

I'm also toying around with the idea of bringing Leof's sister into play. Not sure but it's been in the back of my mind ever since I started with him. To echo Legate, I don't want to bite of more than I can chew with more characters than I have time to write for.

[Galadriel55]

It just goes to say how much I've forgotten that for one moment I thought, "who's Athanar?" :rolleyes: (oh, how I've missed this emoticon :Merisu:). Anyone any less major I pretty much don't have recollections of. Heck, I couldn't remember my own characters off the top of my head. I have a lot of reviewing to do.

Thinking about my characters, though, I'd say a 3-5 year leap would be better than a 10 year one. I think 10 is a tad too much. As for character development, Ledwyn is a young widow with a 2 year old son, whose husband died in some working accident or other (can't remember who he was) - or so she says. I think I know where she's going. :cool: Oh how young and innocent I was when I created her! I could go all Game of Thrones on her, but I don't think that would be fitting here, though I do have a very appropriate twist in mind. But regardless, that doesn't stop her from being young and single, and she's not the only wench around. That should give this gathering of men something to ponder.

As for the general storyline, I think we need a calamity. There's only so much you write about cooking breakfast. I think the last biggie that happened was the trouble with the minor lords (correct me if I'm wrong - my memory is simply marvelous). But even that wasn't really serious. Not as serious as it can get. We should have something where lives are at stake - a war is probably not realistic in the setting, but a full out rebellion could be pulled off. Or a famine. Or some other natural disaster, if human enemies of that golden age aren't really a danger. Any cataclysm would do. Not right away of course - we'd first need to set the stage of how things look X years from now. What do you think?

[Mithalwen]

Oh well if it moved years I might be able to recycle Elfthain. He was only ten before but it isn't inconceivable that he might be away from home as an adolescent.

[Snowdog]

Also if we're doing a longer time jump and introducing new characters, would we again start a new game thread and a new discussion thread?

A good reboot into the future with a fresh start and thread and such would be good as I won't be doing much back-reading. I'll intro a character based on the year/time period and do my best to stay on top of the tale. I've been pretty much doing collab. writing with my wife Elora of late so will be a bit rusty.

[Nogrod]

I see some people are unhappy with a too long time-jump (ten years) even if I myself would actually prefer that – to make things new enough for everyone. Maybe we should then do something like a 5-year jump?

I mean I’d really like that we previous writers would need to adjust to a new scene and somewhat new characters as well (a middle-aged person would be becoming old, a kid turning into a teenager, a young adult into a responsible adult etc.). But sure we should go as most of the people wish.


What then might have happened between the time the story ends for now and between the restart?

I think everyone who has written to the story should think about their characters – and everyone should share some thoughts on the general backgorund issues.


~*~

A very short synopsis of the second Mead Hall aka. what we have been writing up to now (the first Mead Hall was a different beast altogether – but if someone would like to reanimate her/his character from there, I think there should be no problem with that).


Now if I remember it correctly the establishing of the (our “second”) Mead Hall in Middle Emnet was an idea of King Eomer to bring the Mid Emnet under the rule of law – and showing the local lords they couldn’t oppress the people around their lands as they pleased. And it was also a gift & a task for lord Eodwine. But with lord Eodwine’s illness king Eomer had to appoint a new lord to the newly established (or actually “in the very early stages of being established”) Mead Hall.

That then ended up with a host of problems both inside the Mead Hall (as those loyal to lord Eodwine and those loyal to the new lord Athanar kind of skirmished it out between themselves) and outside it (the local lords standing up against the rule of king Eomer’s rule via the Mead Hall). The most obvious and immediate outer problems were dealt with, at least initially, by lord Athanar’s boldish action, but the inner tensions didn’t go away even if both lords Athanar and Eodwine (who returned to his wife and the mother of his coming child after being healed) tried to cool things down and tried to work together.

There were a lot of plots and sub-plots involved and many character-stories intertwining there which we should remind ourselves of, if and when some of those characters involved do take part in the new edition of the Mead Hall, or we find some of the possible plots so intriguing we wish to let them make a difference in this situation many years on.


~*~

My intial suggestion would be that we let lord Athanar be appointed by king Eomer into a new position somewhere else – and he probably should take his family and (most of) his soldiers with him – now some of them could be left into the Mead Hall if some writers would like to keep them there and we could then come to terms whether they were ordered to stay (as enforcements to lord Eodwine’s men) or were willing (and given leave) to stay, or whatever…

Also, if we wish to have some added interesting characters, we might leave one or both of lord Athanar’s sons there – they were really reckless guys when they were young the last time we wrote about them. It might be interesting to see what kind of men they would turn out when growing little older.

Lord Eodwine should, I think, be the lord and eorl but he’s clearly getting older – which I then think would make Thornden ever more important character in the Mead Hall (he was alredy appointed a seneschal by lord Athanar), if Folwren is ready to take that.

I think myself and Lommy could keep on writing Modtryth, Stigend and Cnebba – as they are a long time household family and basically have nowhere else to go.

If we let lord Athanar go, I might fancy taking another character depending on what kind of characters are needed (maybe one of lord Athanar's sons - or then something completely different?).


Plotwise I think the local lords could be a wealthy supply of problems, like fex. they had acted "decentlyish" as long as Athanar was there (as they had learned for good that he can play it tough as an eorl) but with him gone - and them not knowing Eodwine - they'd form a conspiracy or even rebel openly - whatever we wished.

Or we could catch on one of those many odd plotlines introduced we have mostly forgotten already (we need to check them)... or...


What do you think?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Does not sound bad to me. I would be certainly too for at least a bit longer time jump, five years is, I think, a nice middle ground if some people don't want to jump too much, but others would prefer a longer jump. I could even do with longer. But depends what is the thing everyone would like to do with their characters.

For myself, the hot irons I have there, i.e. existing characters I could carry on, are all Athanar's soldiers, there is Hilderinc and then the NPC guys, who are sort of fleshed out and I could pick some of them up (such as the young Áforglaed, who could now be a bit more grown-up), they could be left behind on the account of being responsible and useful to Eodwine. Hilderinc was the sort of second-in-command after Athanar's marshal Coenred, so he could be a reasonable choice to be "gifted" to Eodwine. But of course another reasonable thing would be for me to start with somebody completely new. A nice middle ground I've been thinking about could also be e.g. letting Hilderinc stay and, for instance, taking some random peasant from the local area as wife, or somesuch, and then I could have her as a second character. But that's just one possibility, personally I'd maybe prefer even something more original (also the "original" Hilderinc I designed would take a bit longer in settling down), but let's see.

But yes. The idea of e.g. moving Athanar elsewhere and some people remaining behind etc. sounds reasonable. Did you mean, Nogrod, that our potential new storyline would start e.g. just after Athanar has left? As in, the "meanwhile" would be that for the last five (or however many) years, Athanar and Eodwine had been sort of co-ruling the area, with Athanar making sure things work, and after certain period of time, King Eomer saw that things seem to be working fine, and was like "okay, now we can get rid of this unnecessary two-lords rule and seeing that Eodwine can probably take care of things from now on, let's move Athanar somewhere else?" So we might start just after everyone has left? Or would we have it so that the "moving out" happened already several years ago, and the household is just running, and then something problematic might start happening?

In any case, I'm all for some local trouble stirring there. Like G55 said earlier, you can only spend so much time describing how people are eating their breakfast. Although I am not as bloodthirsty, I don't think we need a full-scale bloody rebellion or all-killing plague, but something dramatic, and rather closer to the too dramatic side than to the peaceful side, would not be bad.

[Nogrod]

How the situation has changed and when will be a big decision, and one we need to make together.

Lmp may correct me, but I think the two lords / eorls were very different as personalities and there probably was not anything you'd call love and affection between them. But they didn't hate or despise each other either: they respected each other as senior commanders and capable leaders, and realised well enough that they needed to co-operate for the good of the Mead Hall which clearly was the top priority for both of them. It was more that their disciples and those close to them were hot-headed, easily insulted or over-proud as to try and fight things out...

So the first question is, did they finally reach a peace among the soldiers and other folk belonging to both "households" or has lord Athanar been removed because there was no solution to the tensions? The decision would affect the situation of former Athanar's men / household members quite remarkedly if our writers decided to leave them in the Mead Hall (like Legate's Hilderinc, or Athanar's sons if myself & Lommy decide to leave them).

Another question sure is the one posed by Legate: whether the changes have taken place already some time ago (and things have kind of settled) or do we start writing just when the change happens (Athanar & co. leaves) and see how it goes from there?


I might actually suggest we'd start from a somewhat settled situation to help the new writers blend in - if there are too strong tensions that are based on the previous storyline for the older writers to deal (and have fun) with, it might be harder for the new people to fit in without quite a deep understanding of the previous events.

For the same reason I might propose a somewhat peaceful or honoured exit for Athanar as we probably would do well not leaving too strong tensions there. On top of the above-stated reason of it being possibly frustrating for the new writers if the old ones only dwell in plotlines that stem from the earlier phases of the Mead Hall (which easily happens if we leave some open wounds there), there is also the very real possibility those rifts overtake the writing once again.

I mean one of the problems with the previous "installment" of the Mead Hall was that we seemed to be unable to cut the rivalries down to concentrate on other possible plots.

That doesn't mean there wouldn't, shouldn't or couldn't be any old tensions coming forwards in the new Mead Hall. On the contrary! But I do think we should not make them the main driver of the new storyline - and that would regard us playing them down some considerable amount from where we left the story.


~*~

A few suggestions to ponder then for everyone from where the story stopped...

Lord Eodwine became a father and was happy to father his child while lord Athanar ran the Mead Hall. Or well, maybe Saeryn was actually appointed in some official role as the lady of the Hall (running the everyday life of the Mead Hall with the aid of Eodwine still basically on a "sick leave" recovering to his full strength) while Athanar was the eorl responsible for the official running of the Mead Hall (as the king's court) and commanding the men at arms?

That way we could get things going for a couple of years and see the enmities toning down - maybe lord Athanar was even named the Godfather of the child (alongside Thornden?) as a kind of nice ploy arrived to by Eodwine and Athanar to help ease the tensions between the two groups of people?

One idea could be that there might have been fex. a really hard winter, let's say the second after where we left the story, and some characters, also dear ones, might have even died that winter? I mean what would bring people together better than a common tragedy and common fight for survival?

In general that kind of disaster could serve as a general way of getting rid of characters no one is going to write any more.

Then, when things would look pretty good and peaceful - and lord Eodwine would be back to his full strength after the illness etc. (he could have been suffering with the bad winter also as he wasn't exactly on his prime yet as it befell on them - and that could postpone his full recovery with a year or two?) - king Eomer would have a need for a capable leader somewhere else and calls Athanar to take that position offering the eorlship of Mid Emnet back to Eodwine.

With a disasterous winter behind them it would also be logical for Athanar to be told to leave some of his men to serve under Eodwine... So fex. Hilderinc (and possible others like him) would not be there exactly on his/their own willing but the relations between him (them) and Eodwine's men would be pretty good?

Let's then add a year or two for things to settle down... and we have a five to six year jump in our hands - and new adventures to meet.


What say you?

[Firefoot]

I guess I don't really understand the push for a large time jump. I've been thinking about it quite a lot the last couple days and I feel like I could do three years. My biggest problem is with Scyld's development (and if I'm honest, the way his relationship was progressing with Rowenna) - that's something that's not going to remain stagnant for an incredibly lengthy amount of time, but I also can't write that development independently since it depends on another character's writer. To get to three years, I'm probably going to write in that he left for a while (and I have an idea to work that in), but five years is a long time. In some ways at least I think Scyld is on his way to being a very different person but I can't just gloss over that and skip to the end without it feeling totally contrived. lmp, thoughts from Rowenna's side? Though maybe I should ask first whether you are also interested in continuing writing Rowenna's character?

I like the general plot points Nogrod outlined, though I think it could easily be compressed to a shorter time frame (if anyone else is with me... if everyone else really wants to jump five years I guess I'm outnumbered).

My thought is, if we're starting up new characters and some new general plotlines anyway, it shouldn't matter to new writers how far along we move the timeline. And for those of you arguing for a longer jump with existing characters, I would be interested in knowing why you want to move them so far forward - do you feel they were a bit stagnant where they were? Then I'd suggest introducing some event in their life that changes or pushes them in new directions - and it doesn't necessarily have to be a long time from now. Though I do understand the desire of those with children characters to grow them up a bit.

I won't belabor my point, but you can consider my vote as

++3 year shift :p

[Galadriel55]

Also, if we wish to have some added interesting characters, we might leave one or both of lord Athanar’s sons there – they were really reckless guys when they were young the last time we wrote about them. It might be interesting to see what kind of men they would turn out when growing little older.

Lord Eodwine should, I think, be the lord and eorl but he’s clearly getting older – which I then think would make Thornden ever more important character in the Mead Hall (he was alredy appointed a seneschal by lord Athanar), if Folwren is ready to take that.

That combination would be interesting to develop, since all of a sudden W&W (or at least the elder of the two) would lose his status as the "son and heir" of the eorl, seeing as Athanar is no longer eorl - and maybe they would actually start behaving like actual men...eventually?

And Athanar leaving would create the same situation as Athanar coming, but in reverse, and potentially stir old grudges, but this time I think the grudges would be mild and brief, because 1) Athanar leaves in honour at the request of King Eomer to see to another challenging task, he's not just dismissed, 2) Athanar's men saw Eodwine in action and know he's a worthy man, 3) the two households have had time to begin respecting each other and cooperating, and they are above open quarrels for the most part, and 4) bringing up the old tensions is like chewing cud - it's boring to rehash the same story.

Plotwise I think the local lords could be a wealthy supply of problems, like fex. they had acted "decentlyish" as long as Athanar was there (as they had learned for good that he can play it tough as an eorl) but with him gone - and them not knowing Eodwine - they'd form a conspiracy or even rebel openly - whatever we wished.

I vote for open rebellion. Maybe even a justified rebellion - overall wrong, but not without cause. Maybe some of the lords would feel rightfully wronged by the eorl(s) or by their men, or there is some misunderstanding that ends in tragedy. That way they aren't just jerks either, and they may have the support of some of their people (otherwise the rebellion wouldn't be sustained unless they hired brigands or something). Thoughts?

In any case, I'm all for some local trouble stirring there. Like G55 said earlier, you can only spend so much time describing how people are eating their breakfast. Although I am not as bloodthirsty, I don't think we need a full-scale bloody rebellion or all-killing plague, but something dramatic, and rather closer to the too dramatic side than to the peaceful side, would not be bad.

An all-killing plague! That's perfect!!! <3 No, seriously - it's plausible within the setting, it puts pressure on individuals and on the entire Meadhall alike, and it creates tension when developing the story. A plague a plague a plague! Delicious!

Ok, sorry, I suppose I am more bloodthirsty than most of you here, so I won't push on with it, but I do think that an event like that could be kept in mind to be used in the future.

Another alternative drama could be the disappearance of some man/men. Just plain old disappearance. No one knows what happened or where they went. We may or may not know what happened or where they went. And that could lead to search parties and unwanted discoveries of... I dunno. Things.

I've reread the last 3-4 pages of the thread, and there are a few notable subplots/details that I think deserve attention. Firstly, there is stuff brewing between Ginna and Harreld. Are they now happily married? What did her father say? Then there is some very different stuff brewing between Rowenna and Scyld. That probably needs resolution, or at least continuation (re: Firefoot: to avoid the too-rapid transformation, Scyld could have been sent away or gone away to do some task for a significant amount of time. Say, a group of Scarburg men was dispatched to aid the reconstruction of a village after the whole thing birned down in a harsh fire during a very dry summer, and due to complications the project lengthened. The whole thing could be described briefly in passing, but Scyld's character development would sort of be put on pause, or perhaps he could reflect on it in a flashback). Then there is the dead body, which Rowenna and Scyld (well mostly Rowenna) decided to investigate. I can't see how this plot line can be suddenly reopened again after several years. Either we drop it or we flashback-narrate it. Finally, Athanar was bothered about Saeryn's parade of her condition and her martyr-like show/attitude, and he considered ordering her to stop working so much but was loathe to give her commands in her own house. Now that Eodwine is here, though, Athanar could do the thing discreetly with his help, and Ledwyn's coming would have been an argument in his favour, so my guess is that the three of them would convince Saeryn to lay down her duties for a while. She would also probably get a few months of "maternity leave". I don't think she would stay away from her position as the Lady of the hall for very long, but it would be a few months at least. How would people react to her coming back? How would she feel if in her absence as the person in control things started going differently somehow?

So there. I agree with Firefoor - I think that we don't need a too long jump to get out of stagnation. But then again, some characters are hotter coals than others - I can see how the Harreld, Ginna, Rowenna, Saeryn, Scyld, and the children would develop much faster than, say, Hilderinc or Eodwine, who are in a way already established and slow to change, and therefore would benefit from a shorter jump, while on the contrary someone like Hilderinc would benefit from a longer jump... Oh the indecisiveness...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I guess I don't really understand the push for a large time jump. I've been thinking about it quite a lot the last couple days and I feel like I could do three years. My biggest problem is with Scyld's development (and if I'm honest, the way his relationship was progressing with Rowenna) - that's something that's not going to remain stagnant for an incredibly lengthy amount of time, but I also can't write that development independently since it depends on another character's writer. To get to three years, I'm probably going to write in that he left for a while (and I have an idea to work that in), but five years is a long time. In some ways at least I think Scyld is on his way to being a very different person but I can't just gloss over that and skip to the end without it feeling totally contrived.
I think it's what G55 said, the "new" characters who had just acquired their personality, or characters who are already fairly established and are not currently growing, would benefit from longer time jump simply because it gives the chance to go fresher with them. It's like Bilbo Baggins has been introduced in the first chapter, then it's nice skipping over the trek through the Shire, Bree and most of the wilderness until we reach the trolls, because there isn't really much room for development. Obviously, the problem being that not everyone is on the same boat and just when we last left off, there were a few plots going on at the moment, involving basically three or four characters, one of which being Scyld, so it's logical from your perspective, it would even be logical to continue just at the very day we left off. And exactly, the same with others who are not present - the main problem I see with any longer time jumps is that there might be players who would like to continue writing their characters as they are, because there is material for growth here and now (although again, often upon thinking about it, a time-jump could serve better).

As a side note to the time jump, although I would not personally submit "creative license" to "realism", it would be more realistic if more shifting of lords didn't occur too quickly after each other (already we had the unusual case of Athanar being appointed to replace Eodwine, and then suddenly in a matter of weeks upon Eodwine's unexpected recovery the shift occuring again).

And Athanar leaving would create the same situation as Athanar coming, but in reverse, and potentially stir old grudges, but this time I think the grudges would be mild and brief, because 1) Athanar leaves in honour at the request of King Eomer to see to another challenging task, he's not just dismissed, 2) Athanar's men saw Eodwine in action and know he's a worthy man, 3) the two households have had time to begin respecting each other and cooperating, and they are above open quarrels for the most part, and 4) bringing up the old tensions is like chewing cud - it's boring to rehash the same story.
Yep, I think we should stay away from the "old lord/new lord/old people/new people" grudges and not touch them even with a ten-foot pole, only occassionally if it really sounded like it might be fun and there's a good reason for it. Heck, I even thought we technically got over it already in the game itself - the stuff was essentially getting settled, as far as I am concerned. And after several years of living together, I think we could more or less gloss over it.

I vote for open rebellion. Maybe even a justified rebellion - overall wrong, but not without cause. Maybe some of the lords would feel rightfully wronged by the eorl(s) or by their men, or there is some misunderstanding that ends in tragedy. That way they aren't just jerks either, and they may have the support of some of their people (otherwise the rebellion wouldn't be sustained unless they hired brigands or something). Thoughts?
Not an uninteresting idea, the question would exactly be how and why. Currently I don't have any ideas, but I'll think about it. Side note - I would not like, however, this to turn into a "war RPG" - I haven't been in Scarburg that long, but it always seemed to me rather on the peaceful side, and certainly I'd prefer it to be more like drama than to turn it into "Eodwine slashed the first soldier, then the second, then he killed four Orcs. Next post: Sixteen new orcs arrived and attacked him."

Another alternative drama could be the disappearance of some man/men. Just plain old disappearance. No one knows what happened or where they went. We may or may not know what happened or where they went. And that could lead to search parties and unwanted discoveries of... I dunno. Things.
Same as above. Sounds good, but whereas I like the "not knowing and planning on-the-go" part, I am very, very, very well aware of the pitfalls of that, because that easily turns to be "um... yeah... we've been writing for fifteen pages, searched the whole Rohan, and still have no idea what happened in the first place". I'd be for it, but we probably should have at least some idea, not necessarily even who or what did "it", but at least what we're trying to accomplish by that.

I've reread the last 3-4 pages of the thread, and there are a few notable subplots/details that I think deserve attention. Firstly, there is stuff brewing between Ginna and Harreld. Are they now happily married? What did her father say?
I think this is most of all the issue of their respective players. I think that's one thing we should figure out anyway (regardless of how far we timejump, even if we didn't timejump at all), try to check with players of previous characters, if they are still interested, if they have any vision for them, if we should rather quietly move them out of sight for the time being (exactly - "Ginna and Harreld settled for a time on a small farm nearby...") if the player isn't planning on returning now, just in case we don't do something they wouldn't consent to in case they wanted to come back later ("Ginna and Harreld both died in the terrible plague last winter - oops").

Then there is the dead body, which Rowenna and Scyld (well mostly Rowenna) decided to investigate. I can't see how this plot line can be suddenly reopened again after several years. Either we drop it or we flashback-narrate it.
Unless it somehow was never solved, swept under the rug, whatever, and it might serve as starting point for some later cases (e.g. the sudden disappearances [TM] - it will be revealed that it was the work of evil Sméagol, who has been lurking around and kidnapping poor villagers ever since, until he finally became too bold for his own good, kidnapped a few of people straight from the Mead Hall at once, and that started our new pursuit!). To be honest, I have no idea what it was supposed to be to begin with - Firefoot? Was there a specific idea behind that?

Anyway, generally speaking, to me, it really doesn't matter how long time jump we make. But I don't have anything against making it longer rather than shorter. Three years is decent already, in any case. But could be much more or even less.

Of course - random thought at the end - we could jump just a little ahead (a few years) and into the "Fell Winter" idea of Nogrod's with people dying left and right (happy, Ms. Plaguebearer?), and do something there. I think the main point of time-jump is though that there should be some time between Eodwine arriving and Athanar leaving, and between Athanar leaving and our start (at least some time so that the new routine has been established).

[Thinlómien]

That combination would be interesting to develop, since all of a sudden W&W (or at least the elder of the two) would lose his status as the "son and heir" of the eorl, seeing as Athanar is no longer eorl - and maybe they would actually start behaving like actual men...eventually?

And Athanar leaving would create the same situation as Athanar coming, but in reverse, and potentially stir old grudges, but this time I think the grudges would be mild and brief, because 1) Athanar leaves in honour at the request of King Eomer to see to another challenging task, he's not just dismissed, 2) Athanar's men saw Eodwine in action and know he's a worthy man, 3) the two households have had time to begin respecting each other and cooperating, and they are above open quarrels for the most part, and 4) bringing up the old tensions is like chewing cud - it's boring to rehash the same story.Wulfric and Wilheard behaving like actual men? Wow you're feeling optimistic today... :p

I think a three-year time jump would be a nice compromise for those who might want to see long term character development taking place in their characters and to those who have more pressing matters to solve. I don't see any problem with writing a couple of interludes, eg. with Scyld and Rowenna if there's something that needs to be addressed.

As for what happened during the time jump, feel free to use Wulfric and Wilheard as culprits. Maybe they did something stupid that forced Athanar to take King Éomer's invitation and resign himself and (most of) his household from Scarburg. You know, plotting with the local separationist (:p) lordlings or assaulting kitchen staff who are under Athanar or Eodwine's protection. You name it, they probably did it. And then if we wanted extra trouble, they could reappear to stir up a subplot in the new timeline.

Or maybe they stayed and matured a little, possibly going away on a campaign to Harad or the East with an éored for a year or two, and maybe once they came back Athanar and Eodwine named one of them in an important position in the household upon Athanar's departure? And then that one could have little cockfights with Thornden in the new timeline?

Whatever sounds the best. I mean, writing for those two idiots was great fun but I'm afraid it won't be as fun if they go full chaotic evil or if they grow up, but I'm okay with that. I mean, I haven't written them for years. I won't regret if I let them go now.

(Ackk now I'm thinking, maybe they indeed went on a campaign and Wulfric - the older and bolder one - actually died, and Wilheard returned to Scarburg with his head down, grieved and alone, and his unpredictability hidden but even more dangerous... that could make an interesting plotline for certain.)

[Mithalwen]

Ok I don't really want to get involved in the discussion much since I feel it is for the writers of existing characters to do what is right for them and for the newcomers/ returnees to fit in. However I just thought I would mention, and I hope that I am correct since I don't have access to many texts atm, but if the Mead hall was previously in late FA15 wasn't it the next year that Elessar went to dwell a while by lake Evendim.

I know that it doesn't effect Rohan directly but there must have been an increase of traffic and not necessarily exclusively consisting of denizens of Gondor. I am sure many would have taken to have a relatively safe adventure. Anyway I will wait and see what is decided.

[Nogrod]

I think I'm being a somewhat realist in thinking that whatever we'll do with the new installment / continuation of the Mead Hall it will take several weeks or month(s) before we are up and writing it again. Therefore I think it very plausible all different considerations we'd need to think can be thought of & solved both individually and via a lot of PM'ing between the owners' of the characters in need of dealing with. I don't think there is any hurry. At least there shouldn't be.

It is very true different writers & characters are in different situations. Some might easily make a ten year jump and it would be only more interesting that way. For some others it would be much harder - or more of a jump into relative darkness where one would need to just decide or negotiate a bunch of things before we continue.

But considering what I said above about us having all the time we need, we could arrange for some "inrterludes", as someone called them, and give everyone a chance to write their character's POV posts about the years we jumped over (possibly collaborated posts with some other writers if there would be some important relationship-issues to solve) before we actually jump forward and start / continue writing the actual story.


~*~

Why I favoured a longer jump was that it would make it easier for the new writers to fit in as the shadows of the past would be lighter.

And for some reasons, well actually for quite many, I still favour a longer jump. For example I think it would do good to us former writers as well to take some distance.

It should naturally be a shared decision - and so I'm going to be happy with whatever that decision is, especially as I'm looking forwards to giving the reins back to lmp once again.


~*~

Just as a general point of agreement... I too think the Mead Hall is not a war game (I still find it odd collaborative storytelling is called 'game' in Barrow Downs) and should stay like that. But it should be drama for sure.

So a hard winter, a plague... we should have something along those lines to get rid of the enmities and to just throw away the characters whom no one is going to write (or adopt) for.

In general terms, it should not be too hard to come up with a plot concerning the local lords causing problems to the Mead Hall. They wouldn't be a unified gang any more (which I think was one of the major outcomes of the Mead Hall's confrontation with them as we wrote it), but it should provide us with a lots of nice plotting.

With some of the other ideas I'd tend to agree with Legate that we should have a point for them first. Just writing anomalies and seeing if they catch up or not isn't, imo, the most fruitful approach to writing in general.

Also I think we should get rid of Athanar even if I kind of really started to like writing him. And probably his household as well. But we could leave some soldiers, especially those who have writers, just with the pretext of not letting the Mead Hall fall too weak (by King Eomer's orders I presume). And what Lommy said about the brothers here could be just real messy (in a positive way)...
Or maybe they stayed and matured a little, possibly going away on a campaign to Harad or the East with an éored for a year or two, and maybe once they came back Athanar and Eodwine named one of them in an important position in the household upon Athanar's departure? And then that one could have little cockfights with Thornden in the new timeline?
...
(Ackk now I'm thinking, maybe they indeed went on a campaign and Wulfric - the older and bolder one - actually died, and Wilheard returned to Scarburg with his head down, grieved and alone, and his unpredictability hidden but even more dangerous... that could make an interesting plotline for certain.)I mean we could come up with a nice combination of these ideas...


~*~

What else?

Mith's finding could be fruitful. And it is a nice spotting.

But it is at the same time a bit "earlyish" for our plans of jumping a little more than just a year. And on the other hand, there just being more people wandering around in Tolkien's universe by the time X might not be that important because we can always come up with reasons to introduce wanderers to our Hall if we wish to (we've come up with reasons to bring dwarves, hobbits, elfs, rogues etc. to the Mead Hall thus far with no problems) - or if we wish more of them wandering around, we can come up with a reason for that as well.

Or could it be the kind of a nice background story we'd tell happened during our jump - that besides the terrible killer-winter / plague, there were a year or two of lots of people coming to and fro - and maybe some of our newcomers to the story would be ones who had visited the Mead Hall by that time and had come back for some personal purpose? Wouldn't that actually be a nice place to start writing a new character?


Okay. Stopping my thinking aloud for the time being...

[Firefoot]

I certainly hope it doesn't take months to start writing again! I think we have momentum now and the longer it takes to actually start writing, the more momentum we lose. And personally, I'm really eager to start actually writing again. I don't think we necessarily need to have all the details worked out - we can leave some room for making it up as we get there.

In the interest of expediting things, I've attempted to make a character list of all the characters currently at the hall, no longer how long ago they were last written about. I've grouped them by characters whose writers have expressed interest in continuing the story, characters whose writers we haven't heard from, and NPCs, along with a brief description to let those who are new or who have forgotten sort of who they are (character bios linked on the first page of the discussion thread). From this we can create a shorter list of characters who will still be around at the time when we pick up.

Characters with Active Writers
Athanar son of Herewald - new Eorl of Meadhall (Nogrod)
Stigend – Carpenter (Nogrod)
Modtryth – Stigend’s wife (Lommy)
Cnebba – Stigend/Modtryth’s son (Nogrod/Lommy)
Wulfric & Wilheard - sons of the new Eorl (Lommy)
Rowenna – Serving woman (lmp)
Eodwine – Former Eorl (lmp)
Master Falco Boffin – Hobbit (lmp)
Harreld Smith – Smith (lmp)
Garreth Smith; - Smith (lmp)
Laerdil – Elf (lmp)
Léofric (Leof) – Ostler (Firefoot)
Scyld – Formerly of the household where the new Meadhall was built; makes himself useful where possible (Firefoot)
Ledwyn and her son, Theolain – Recent arrivals to hall (G55)
Hilderinc – Athanar’s soldier (Legate)

Characters with Inactive Writers
Coenred (Coen) - Athanar's right hand man/in charge of his men (Durelin)
Tyrdda – Serving woman, originally from Scarburg area (Durelin)
Raedwald – Soldier, did not come with Athanar (Eonwe)
Thornden – Eodwine’s 2nd in command (Folwren)
Javan – Thornden’s younger brother, assists in stables (Folwren)
Saeryn – Eodwine’s wife, lady of the hall (Folwren)
Quin of Edoras – One of Athanar’s younger soldiers (Folwren)
Náin son of Narin son of Nori – Dwarf (Formendacil)
Crabannan – “Trouble-maker”/Jack of all trades (Gwathagor)
Wilcred – Seems to have come to Scarburg with Eodwine (Gwathagor/NPC?)
Kara – Serving woman (Kath)
Frodides – cook (Kath)
Ginna – serving woman (Lhuna)
Randvér – Ginna’s father, not necessarily at hall (Lhuna)
Lilige Wynflæd's maid (loslote)
Wynflæd - wife of Athanar, the new Eorl (Mnemosyne)
Balvir – soldier (Nerindel)
Iomhair – young woman (Nerindel)
Aedel – young woman (Nerindel)
Matrim Astalder - soldier, caretaker of Aethel (Nerindel)
Ædre - daughter of the new Eorl

NPC's
Baldwic – soldier (NPC)
Fearghall – soldier (NPC)
Áforglaed – soldier (NPC)
Scyrr – soldier, troublemaker (NPC)
Aldric – soldier, womanizer (NPC)
Garstan – Stone worker (NPC, originally Celuien)
Garmund – Garstan’s son (NPC)
Leodern – Garstan’s daughter (NPC)

For a start, I'd recommend writing all of Nerindel's characters out - she only wrote about 5 posts for all her characters in the thread. Eonwe's character Raedwald can probably go as well; he hasn't been active in a long time. I'd be hesitant to kill off (distinctive from write out) any of Folwren or Durelin's characters since they were active "recently" in the hall thread. Wilcred has not been written about since the very beginning of the Meadhall thread - he can probably go. Not sure about Crabannan - Gwathagor sometimes pops up. Kara, Frodides, and Ginna are long-time fixtures of the hall - not sure how that affects what we do with them (also sort of depends on Ginna's romantic sub-plot...). Aedre, Wynflaed, and Lilige can all go with Athanar. And Nain can just be out and about - as a Dwarf, he's obviously not from Rohan and need not be present at the hall. Thoughts?

Obviously anyone present can make their own decisions about their characters.

Thoughts on the NPC's from the writers who have had more to do with them?

As far as the intervening timeline, I think a hard winter followed at some point by Athanar and co leaving is a good outline; should be enough of a basis for people to start thinking/writing about their characters in the interim. And as far as the conspiracy/rebellion goes, what sort of details do we need to hash out before starting to write? I personally don't feel over-concerned about this as I feel like I can create enough personal drama for my characters regardless of the overarching plot-line, but understand why others who are more involved might feel differently.

I just don't want this to stagnate with ideas and lose new writers while we sit around hashing out the details. Hope this helps a bit.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good job, Firefoot. Just a short comment from me now - I think basically what's been said here all makes sense to me. As for the starting, we sure are not in any rush, although I can also understand the eagerness to start. In any case, I think it's good to do something. I think nothing prevents us to plan more details (and Firefoot has already supplied us with first thing to sort out. Maybe we could try to e.g. contact Lhuna and Kath and Gwath regarding their characters?)

And at the same time, whoever wants can start on working or even write some details about what happened to their characters during some of the transition, like Nog suggested. So exactly if Scyld would seem to have ongoing stuff which can happen before the transition, that can be written, or at least some of it, which isn't dependant on the final shape of the transition. But if we roughly agree e.g. that there was normal routine for a year, also maybe some bigger random happenings around the King-spedition that Mith mentioned, then some evil winter, and eventually Athanar leaving on Éomer's call, people already have enough basic background info for writing something. Or at least trying to make it clear which direction their character's development would take during the time, which is something all of us would have to think of at any rate.

Or I don't know, if somebody would be really hyperactive to write, of course nothing would prevent in the meantime to continue in the "present" just where we left off on the thread if they'd have stuff to do; the main point however being anyway that we want to sort of bring people together on this and start a bit further "properly", as so far I think the main issue for most is to get to a spot where something is happening which can involve everyone and we have something to start from.

[Snowdog]

Right. Lots of details here. You all get the scene and setting placed and I'll bring in my one Rohirrim character I have into the Mead Hall and will work with whatever you put out there.

[Nogrod]

Thanks Firefoot for the update on the characters! It is going to be really helpful!

And your concern with the momentum is a quite an important thing to pay heed to.

Right. Lots of details here. You all get the scene and setting placed and I'll bring in my one Rohirrim character I have into the Mead Hall and will work with whatever you put out there.That's the spirit!

And like Legate said, nothing prevents people from starting to build posts already - or posting them - if they have pressing stuff for their characters they'd love to move forwards like now and not a bit later.


I'm sorry Firefoot for using the 's' after the word 'month' - I wasn't really thinking it would take monthS to get this rolling (I was kind of joking on it), but it will most probably take a few weeks - and maybe a month - to really get everyone into the same map - and to decide what kind of map it actually is where we start / continue from...


~*~

There are a few things to do to help things get rolling.

We sould find out which of the old writers would be willing to come back. Of those who have not yet shown their presence I think the most important one would be Folwren as she has the ownership of some really major characters.

Should I sent her a PM / an Fb note - or would fex. lmp be willing to contact her? (She's taking a trip to Europe on June and we Finns are going to meet her around the Midsummers' eve-time, but that would be pretty late to start discussing this; it also means she's probably not able to post a lot in June anyway but that should not be a problem if she wishes to continue writing her characters, they could just be a little more inactive for some time)


All other "old writers" should also declare which of their characters they'd like to continue writing (some of us seem to have quite a bunch of characters) or if they'd like to write all of them, or even introduce more - or if they'd like to keep the character around but would be willing to turn it into a NPC or are just ready to kill the character? You should use Firefoot's list for that.

Also we'd need to have a rough outline of things going on during our jump so that people could start really thinking about their characters. (I'll speculate about it shortly just a few rows downwards.)


And naturally the new writers should think about their characters and maybe express their intents about them... I mean having seven "damsels in distress" coming into the Mead Hall and no other kind of new characters would be a bad idea. Or well, who knows? :p

And we'd need to make a short synopsis / general updated outline of the Mead Hall for the new writers to read as it is probably too much requiring them to read some 100 pages from the early first Mead Hall onwards...


~*~

A general timeline should also be decided - at least the most central things that would affect everyone one way or another.

How about a following scenario?

NB. The years given can be concentrated if the majority thinks 5 years would be too much...


1# year

The Mead Hall was more or less built within a year after we left writing the story (I think it was not yet ready when we ceased writing and there were some major things to do & to change according to Athanar's plans). Saeryn will give birth.

The things settled down a bit even if there were some occasional rifts and a few people were given minor penalties by lord Athanar's court because of misbehaviour.

The local lords were licking their wounds and having their own internal power-struggles so they were not able or willing to cause any trouble.


2# year

There could then have been a period of a lot of travelers the next year because of king Aragorn's trip, and the local lords would have been nice and relaxed as there were a lot of folk around & revenue to be made etc. A year of prosperity and relationships getting better within the Mead Hall.


3# year

The year of problems in the east. With king Eomer's muster also the Mead Hall would have been forced to give away a host of soldiers - both lord Eodwine's and lord Athanar's men (more of the latter as Athanar rode in with a larger host of active-duty soldiers).

It might even be lord Athanar would have been summoned by king Eomer to lead a force of rohirrim from those parts of Rohan (as king Eomer knew that Eodwine was getting better but not well enough to lead cavalry into a battle - but he trusted Eodwine would nevertheless be in good condition enough to run the hall). At least Athanar's sons would be summoned...

Local lords are called for as well (under the command of Athanar?) and so they are not doing any plotting or things like that this year.


4# year

The killer-winter -year (I'd prefer a harsh winter to a plague, but if most people think plague is better I'm fine with it).

Understaffed the Mead Hall suffers greatly because of the winter. Other local lords / their farmsteads suffer as well. Everyone suffers as death walks around randomly here and there.

Here we get rid of characters no one will be writing any more.



5# year

The end of the fell winter... This might also be the place we start our writing!

A nice place for the new characters to join the Mead Hall - refugees, wanderers, travelers... caught up by the harsh winter and trying to find shelter / been kicked out of former shelters, coming back from the war in the east etc.

Lord Athanar could be dead - or maybe promoted to a Field Marshal, or given a new eorlship... whatever. But we'd be rid of him from the story. Those left behind of Athanar's men could be ordered by king Eomer to stay under the command of Eodwine... and maybe one or two of his sons would join the Mead Hall after the battles...


How about something along these lines?

[Firefoot]

I'm sorry Firefoot for using the 's' after the word 'month' - I wasn't really thinking it would take monthS to get this rolling (I was kind of joking on it), but it will most probably take a few weeks - and maybe a month - to really get everyone into the same map - and to decide what kind of map it actually is where we start / continue from...I probably overreacted... but it was certainly galvanizing. I'll be on vacation not this week but next week anyway, and doing a lot of backpacking/camping so I guess I'm not in a huge rush - maybe set a goal of definitely be writing by June?

I'm a lot less concerned with the exact sequence of events in the interim than the amount of time - Leof will keep doing his thing with the horses (he'd be pretty useless in a battle) - and actually, Scyld's not really a fighter either even if he didn't have his own thing going on so that all looks great to me

I would facebook Folwren - she hasn't logged into the Downs since we got it back and probably doesn't know we're starting again, if she's at all interested. lmp has also gone conspicuously absent, though I'm wondering if he's on vacation based on his facebook page as well...

[Galadriel55]

I apologize for the brevity, but I'm posting from a phone and it's a pain in the patience. :p I think the killer winter is great, and the timeline is quite fine as well. Just a question - are we going to briefly summarize these years in one post, or maybe pick a moment for each year and pause to make a few posts so that characters can "update" themselves? I would be for the latter case - it wouldn't slow us down too much, if we avoid too much interaction and make the posts more self-reflective than seeking subplots, but it would give the chance to show occasional character development in addition to overall changes. Maybe just a glimpse of a couple main characters per year.

I suppose on the other hand, if you want your character to start being 5 years older already, that's not exactly a perfect plan. But even so, it would probably be nice to fex hear Athanar's goodbye speech, or Stigend's/Garstan's thoughts at having completed the Mead Hall.

So what do you think?

[Nogrod]

I kind of like the idea of some intermediary posts being built up before we go forwards.

I think it would fall on me and/or lmp to come up with the kind of "official jump post" shortly outlining what has happened in a general level - but we could of course break that up into four to five very short descriptions to which others could add something for their own characters if they felt a need for it before we post the "next year" etc.

Let's think about that as well.

I see no reason why we wouldn't be writing this in June, but having this going full steam already in May I'm more sceptical about.

[Thinlómien]

I sent Eönwë a message since he just posted on the new ww admin thread.

Nogrod's outline looks good to me, but I wouldn't mind compromising for a shorter time jump if that's what the majority wants. Personally, I quite like 5 years.

Now that I'm thinking of it, I think I want to keep writing Wilheard, and poor Wulfric can be dead. It should make things interesting.

Modtryth then... to be frank, I don't think there's that much in her that I'd find interesting to explore, and I feel like she's very archetypal female character written by Ms Lommy back in 2000-whatever, and creating some huge drama for her just to make it more interesting would feel a little fabricated. So I'm thinking I could keep her as secondary character, writing for her when it's relevant for other characters' plots and offering her to be used as an NPC whenever people need one of the household servant women to do this or that. A lot depends on how many active kitchen wench/ maid/ random household servant woman characters are we going to have, because if all the others are going to be NPCs/ carry-along characters again there's little reason for me to write Modtryth super actively either. And I'm not entirely opposed to killing her off for the sake of drama...

As for Cnebba, I look forward to seeing him grown up a little. I think me and Nogrod's arrangement of sharing the character worked really well in the past, and I think we can continue that. OR if Nogrod - who has been writing Cnebba more recently - has a vision what to do with the character, I'm also content in taking the back seat and grabbing the pop corn and seeing what happens to the poor little boy. :smokin:

So, in short, will my characters be around?

Wilheard - yes (now with added trauma; and probably also completed soldier training - he was only 17 and now he's going to be 20 or 22)
Wulfric - nope, RIP
Modtryth - yes, as a secondary character (?????)
Cnebba - yes, whatever the actual writing arrangement between me and Nog

I also think people should revise/update/rewrite the character bios for the old characters to make it easier - especially for the new players - to orientate (plus in some cases *coughthinlómiencough* correct some lousy grammar - I didn't think my English used to be any worse than it is now but apparently I was wrong... :o)

[Nogrod]

I think we old writers should all make the kind of short "what I have in mind" -post Lommy just made.


So for my part I'd say Athanar will be off to fresh adventures.


With Stigend I have quite similar thoughts Lommy has with Modryth. It might be quite a tragedy if Cnebba was orphaned by the terrible winter, but I'm not sure it would be good drama as the closest person to him would be Garstan and his children - and they have no active writer.

So I'd say we (myself and Lommy) should continue co-writing Cnebba and we could bring both Stigend and Modryth into the story via his character, and of course if there is some need to add their voices independently of Cnebba's POV then we'd do it. I mean you never know when you need a staple hand around.

If we seem to be in need of characters to die in the terrible winter, then I'd say we could come up with a mix from Stigend and Modryth & Cnebba + Garstan & Garmund and Leothern. They were close friends both adults and kids and the remaining ones would naturally fall on each other's support if something terrible happened. But without Celuien I'm not sure we'd like to write at least any high drama just on our own...


That said I see myself quite free of any strong obligations (Athanar is off, Stigend will lay back and Cnebba is a co-written character).

So I might want to do something of the following...

My first idea is - has been basically from when I realised the Mead Hall would be back - to start taking care of the local lords (they're more or less my creations after all), especially if we decide they're going to play a role in the plots defining the Mead Hall's future. That would probably include less writing in the thread but more thinking and planning outside it. I might find that task very interesting indeed.

And it might actually end up including more writing in the thread as I have an idea that one of them at least might be a regular visitor soon enough. But I need to go back to those characters some time soon and see in more detail what I could do with them (I have ideas as to what kind of characters they were and how their relations were but I do not remember the details well enough to spell anything out quite yet).

Secondly. If we're going to have several new characters in the Hall I'd rather not add a new one to the mix, but I could think of picking up someone already in the Mead Hall no one writes - like who was this bad tongued old guy I think I wrote about whose task it was to teach Javan as a punishment (a punishment to Javan, not to him ;))? Or maybe one of Athanar's soldiers left in the Mead Hall (like leaving someone alongside Hilderinc that was actually written by someone)? Talking of which: unless Durelin comes back and says she wants to write Coenred, then Coenred should go with Athanar.

[Galadriel55]

Well, I'm not an old writer by any stretch, but I was planning on killing off one of my characters during the winter. I am still debating whose reaction I would rather write about, but I was leaning towards one of them, and if Cnebba is to be orphaned then my choice is clear. ;) The tyke is gonna go. And when that's gonna happen, Ledwyn will reveal something to someone - no idea who, I'm still thinking about that, it should be a person who wouldn't exactly spread a rumour but whose conscience would tell him to seek advice from other people and let half the Hall know. Or maybe not. Or maybe a random NPC. I wanted to do a different twist about Ledwyn's past, but I forgot how many details she already told Saeryn in the kitchen, so this one would have to do. And it would fit in with her character as well, since she's not exactly Scyld or Rowenna when it comes to those things. :)

I agree about Coen. It would make sense for Athanar to take his core men with him. And if Durelin comes back again, it would be possible to send Coen back to Scarburg on an errand, if she so chose.

I will update my character bios in the next couple days as Lommy suggested, if/when I get the moment.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I'm not an old writer by any stretch, but I was planning on killing off one of my characters during the winter. I am still debating whose reaction I would rather write about, but I was leaning towards one of them, and if Cnebba is to be orphaned then my choice is clear. ;) The tyke is gonna go. And when that's gonna happen, Ledwyn will reveal something to someone - no idea who, I'm still thinking about that, it should be a person who wouldn't exactly spread a rumour but whose conscience would tell him to seek advice from other people and let half the Hall know. Or maybe not. Or maybe a random NPC. I wanted to do a different twist about Ledwyn's past, but I forgot how many details she already told Saeryn in the kitchen, so this one would have to do. And it would fit in with her character as well, since she's not exactly Scyld or Rowenna when it comes to those things. :)

*Hilderinc raises hand* How about this confidant?

I assume with lot of stuff, it would be logical for Ledwyn to confide to a woman, but if it's under good circumstances, it could be anyone, right? I mean, game-wise we could develop any good reasons for how the relationship of these two might've induced that possibility. But in any case, my main reasons for thinking about this were out-of-game ones:

1. Hilderinc is exactly the type you are talking about; also, he has the air of being silent and trustworthy, it's almost his prime, if not almost only visible attribute, which brings me to

2. if I want to keep Hilderinc, I desperately need to kick him off a little bit with something action-inducing. I will definitely use the timejump to make him more invested in the people and the place and make him grow, but things like that would be a nice bonus. But whichever way you like.

In any case, as for my characters, there is essentially the option to keep Hilderinc and take some random new character (preferably very different), or ditch Hilderinc and keep one of the NPC soldiers (most of which I had been writing for more than other people, I daresay) such as Áforglaed and do the same, or e.g. do some hybrid thing such as keeping Hilderinc, keeping Áforglaed as another NPC who stayed, but having him married to some random local woman whom I would take as second character. What I definitely do NOT want to do is ending up with two soldiers, and I would not like to take just two utterly different new characters either (too much discontinuity). Actually the option #3 (Hilderinc, NPC Áforglaed+wife) makes the most sense to me at this point, but I'm still thinking.

[littlemanpoet]

Eodwine (First Eorl of the Meadhall) will be there.

Master Falco Boffin - I don't know. I think he left. Did he come back?

Harreld Smith - probably my favorite, he'll be around

Garreth Smith - I think he joined lately.

Rowenna (Rowenna now written by Feanor of the Peredhil) - may be gone unless there's reason to have her around.

Laerdil (Elf) - won't be around. He's probably over the sea by now.

I'm not very keen on all the political whatnot that we were trying to slog through toward the end of things. My sense is that it got too complicated and weighed the whole thing down.

5 years into the future sounds good to me. Eodwine's wife is an issue. I wonder if Folwren isn't too busy with being a successful teacher these days in RL?

Anyway....

[Galadriel55]

*Hilderinc raises hand* How about this confidant?

I assume with lot of stuff, it would be logical for Ledwyn to confide to a woman, but if it's under good circumstances, it could be anyone, right? I mean, game-wise we could develop any good reasons for how the relationship of these two might've induced that possibility. But in any case, my main reasons for thinking about this were out-of-game ones:

1. Hilderinc is exactly the type you are talking about; also, he has the air of being silent and trustworthy, it's almost his prime, if not almost only visible attribute, which brings me to

2. if I want to keep Hilderinc, I desperately need to kick him off a little bit with something action-inducing. I will definitely use the timejump to make him more invested in the people and the place and make him grow, but things like that would be a nice bonus. But whichever way you like.

That sounds lovely, and both our characters can prosper. If you want, we can PM/skype each other and discuss what's going to happen to them. I can tell you what I'm thinking for the reveal, and you can decide if you want Hilderinc involved in that. ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

That sounds lovely, and both our characters can prosper. If you want, we can PM/skype each other and discuss what's going to happen to them. I can tell you what I'm thinking for the reveal, and you can decide if you want Hilderinc involved in that. ;)

Makes sense to me. Contact me anyhow/anytime and we can figure it out.

[Nogrod]

I talked with Folwren yesterday on Facebook as we had some matters concerning their June-European trip to discuss. She promised to check in here.

[Folwren]

Hey, hey, folks!! I'm excited to see so much activity! And it really is SO much activity. Wow. I wasn't expecting all these posts.

I didn't read everything - don't have time - and I won't have time for a loooong time, so I'd actually like to hear what the final plan is once it's all drawn together. I'll be ok with anything ya'll decide without me, and if I'm not ok, I'll keep quiet, since I wasn't here to help plan.

I prefer 3-5 year jump, but either 3 or 5 is equally acceptable to me.

Now, Saeryn was pregnant when we last ended writing, and for some reason I felt she had twins, but I'm not sure if we ever established that.

Something to keep in mind is that sometimes boys were sent places to learn trade or take place in someone's household - another lord or knight, etc. - so those of us who have boys growing up in the game may consider that. I don't think that affects me, as that was the reason Javan was sent to Eodwine in the first place.

I will pop in as I have time and throw in opinion if I have one. School is ending next week, and the week after that, I'm leaving for Europe, so no promises of writing. But I am super excited!

[Snowdog]

I'd actually like to hear what the final plan is once it's all drawn together.
My thoughts as well. I'll have a fun time trying to get any new character in sync with all the characters and back story written by the fine tight-knit group of writers here. I'm not real big on pre-planning out posts, but prefer to work off what is presented.

It seems the scope of this tale is well beyond a Mead Hall setting. Should I ever have time to read it all (I won't), it maybe would make more sense to me. Instead, I'll wait until all you planners get it sorted and give a summary of the current scene and setting and timeframe.

Happy Writing Everyone! :)

[Firefoot]

Rowenna (Rowenna now written by Feanor of the Peredhil) - may be gone unless there's reason to have her around. It would be disappointing to me at least - if that's the direction you're taking with her I may end up just writing Scyld out after all, since he never made much of a connection with any of the other characters... on the other hand, if there's going to be drama with the lords again he could perhaps be useful... I'll think about it. I was going to write him as having been away for most of the time jump anyway.

[littlemanpoet]

Firefoot, if you're here to write for Scyld, then writing Rowenna becomes interesting.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now, Saeryn was pregnant when we last ended writing, and for some reason I felt she had twins, but I'm not sure if we ever established that.
I am not sure, but I think there's nothing contradicting that, so if you want it to be that way, I think that might happen. It would be nice. (And depending on the length of the time jump, there might be a couple of very small kids messing around :) )

Something to keep in mind is that sometimes boys were sent places to learn trade or take place in someone's household - another lord or knight, etc. - so those of us who have boys growing up in the game may consider that. I don't think that affects me, as that was the reason Javan was sent to Eodwine in the first place.
That's actually a pretty good point, why haven't we thought about it. So that's also one way to get rid of characters, and also by the way a good door for new characters to come in (someone taken apprentice at the Hall - even possibly by older characters who are present, specifically, if somebody wanted).

[Mithalwen]

Yes, that is what I was thinking of when I metioned the time jump might enable me to recycle my old character. He is a farm boy at heart but I don't think he will be able to follow his heart's desire without sometime soldiering... so no doubt he would be sent to some lord's household to learn the trade. Or I cold think of someone new.

[Folwren]

Mithalwen, it would be neat if you could bring in an old character, rather than feeling obliged to make a new one.

My character, Javan, was such a character as I mentioned, Legate. That is, he was sent by his father to Eodwine to be trained up in his household.

5 years into the future sounds good to me. Eodwine's wife is an issue. I wonder if Folwren isn't too busy with being a successful teacher these days in RL?

I just now saw this. I won't be too busy to keep up some semblance of a presence for Saeryn (and Thornden and Javan, for that matter), but maybe I won't write as much as I used to.

[littlemanpoet]

What do we need to get started? :)

I propose that all those with thoughts on the question above, say what they think, and after about a week (or less?) I'll draw them together in a rough priority list which anyone is encouraged to respond to with proposed revisions or a thumbs up or whatever.

Ready, go!

[Galadriel55]

A question occurred to me last night - how far along after the Fell Winter would we jump to? The end of the winter? Early/late spring? Is the winter going to be mainly flashback, or are we going to "live through" at least part of it in "real time"?

As for what we need to get started - we already have an outline, we just have to decide to what extent we want to either flesh it out or leave it brief and vague. (For the record, I vote for fleshing out). Potentially decide for sure which characters are gonna be gone. Think of where exactly we will be starting and what the characters would look like at that point. And off we go. We've already done a lot of that in parts.

[Firefoot]

I think I've said all I need to say on where I'm at. I've already started writing an intervening post for Scyld; all that really needs to be settled for him is the length of the jump. Same with Leof, though I think his story fitting the jump will be relatively uneventful and much more quickly summed up. I'm on vacation for the next week but I'll try to pop in when I can and comment here if need be. Eager to get going again!

[Folwren]

Someone's going to have to tell me what the Fell Winter is. I feel ignorant asking.

Elempi,, I propose, in answer to your questions that first, we decide how many years it is we are going to jump (did we all agree on 5?), and then second, we do as Firefoot is doing and each of us write posts for what happened to our characters in the between time.

We may need to know big key events, for instance - did we indeed decide that Athanar left and Eodwine took up his role as eorl again? Which characters left and why? I think those are the only two things that will affect my characters.

And we might even want to know what kind of natural events occurred.

Any deaths in the hall? That'd be interesting.

[Galadriel55]

Someone's going to have to tell me what the Fell Winter is. I feel ignorant asking.

A winter of our invention that would create drama and cause a few deaths.

We may need to know big key events, for instance - did we indeed decide that Athanar left and Eodwine took up his role as eorl again? Which characters left and why? I think those are the only two things that will affect my characters.

And we might even want to know what kind of natural events occurred.

As per Nog's post:

1# year

The Mead Hall was more or less built within a year after we left writing the story (I think it was not yet ready when we ceased writing and there were some major things to do & to change according to Athanar's plans). Saeryn will give birth.

The things settled down a bit even if there were some occasional rifts and a few people were given minor penalties by lord Athanar's court because of misbehaviour.

The local lords were licking their wounds and having their own internal power-struggles so they were not able or willing to cause any trouble.


2# year

There could then have been a period of a lot of travelers the next year because of king Aragorn's trip, and the local lords would have been nice and relaxed as there were a lot of folk around & revenue to be made etc. A year of prosperity and relationships getting better within the Mead Hall.


3# year

The year of problems in the east. With king Eomer's muster also the Mead Hall would have been forced to give away a host of soldiers - both lord Eodwine's and lord Athanar's men (more of the latter as Athanar rode in with a larger host of active-duty soldiers).

It might even be lord Athanar would have been summoned by king Eomer to lead a force of rohirrim from those parts of Rohan (as king Eomer knew that Eodwine was getting better but not well enough to lead cavalry into a battle - but he trusted Eodwine would nevertheless be in good condition enough to run the hall). At least Athanar's sons would be summoned...

Local lords are called for as well (under the command of Athanar?) and so they are not doing any plotting or things like that this year.


4# year

The killer-winter -year (I'd prefer a harsh winter to a plague, but if most people think plague is better I'm fine with it).

Understaffed the Mead Hall suffers greatly because of the winter. Other local lords / their farmsteads suffer as well. Everyone suffers as death walks around randomly here and there.

Here we get rid of characters no one will be writing any more.



5# year

The end of the fell winter... This might also be the place we start our writing!

A nice place for the new characters to join the Mead Hall - refugees, wanderers, travelers... caught up by the harsh winter and trying to find shelter / been kicked out of former shelters, coming back from the war in the east etc.

Lord Athanar could be dead - or maybe promoted to a Field Marshal, or given a new eorlship... whatever. But we'd be rid of him from the story. Those left behind of Athanar's men could be ordered by king Eomer to stay under the command of Eodwine... and maybe one or two of his sons would join the Mead Hall after the battles...

That's the outline of the main events.

Any deaths in the hall? That'd be interesting.

Yes. A couple during the Fell Winter - Theolain for sure, one of Stigen's/Garstan's folk, potentially characters whose writers have disappeared a very long time ago. Wulfric is going to die in the war in the East, and Wilheard will return with the trauma. Who did I miss? I'm sorry if I forgot anyone's character. I think these are the only deaths that were decided on more or less for certain.

[littlemanpoet]

Is this Fell Winter something we're making up, or is it in the history of the Fourth Age? Apologies if this question could be answered by simple research; I don't have my sources with me.

I've contacted Lhunardawen, who says that she will not be able to write. I've asked her to let us know what she wants done with her characters.

[Galadriel55]

I don't believe there's any canonical basis for the winter

[Firefoot]

I'm still rooting for a three year jump but I think the vote is turning against me.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Someone's going to have to tell me what the Fell Winter is. I feel ignorant asking.

(...)

We may need to know big key events, for instance - did we indeed decide that Athanar left and Eodwine took up his role as eorl again? Which characters left and why? I think those are the only two things that will affect my characters.

And we might even want to know what kind of natural events occurred.

Any deaths in the hall? That'd be interesting.
The point was to "clean up" the Hall a bit; Athanar and many of his household leave, while some stay, and also some old old characters who no longer have players etc could be dumped, either by leaving with Athanar, or on their own, or in some cases (if the player wishes so) can die.

Is this Fell Winter something we're making up, or is it in the history of the Fourth Age? Apologies if this question could be answered by simple research; I don't have my sources with me.

I don't know who first used the term "Fell Winter", maybe it was me, but the point was merely to use it as simple term for Nogrod's suggestion of a really evil winter (local, it doesn't mean it has to be nearly as bad anywhere else even in all parts of Rohan), during which some characters might even die, and also it brings all the Scarburgians finally together personally, since they'd have to cooperate and will share the terrible experience - starvation, isolation, illnesses etc.

As for the years: I am fine with 3, would prefer 5, and the original idea was even like 10 but mostly it seems rather long.

[Folwren]

Ok, great, thanks, Gal55. (Do you have a BD nickname that I've just forgotten?) I appreciate you reposting Nogrod's post for me.

That all sound really good.

In regards to years - I don't care if it's 3 or 5 years, really. 5 year olds are more fun to write than 3 year olds, I think, so I'll enjoy writing for Saeryn's kids more if we go 5 years, but it'll be fine either way.

When are we starting?

[Galadriel55]

Ok, great, thanks, Gal55. (Do you have a BD nickname that I've just forgotten?)

Tons! But don't worry - I've been nicknamed all sorts of short forms of Galadriel, so Gal55 fits right in there. :)

In regards to years - I don't care if it's 3 or 5 years, really. 5 year olds are more fun to write than 3 year olds, I think, so I'll enjoy writing for Saeryn's kids more if we go 5 years, but it'll be fine either way.

Speaking of which, what kind of twins are they? Both boys? Identical? Or do you want to hold that back until they're actually born in-game? I think we just kind of assumed that the child is a boy, but having twins means there are two genders to decide on.

[Thinlómien]

I'm fine with starting anytime, really, and could try to update my character bios asap. Just noting that I'll be away from May 27th to June 1st.

What about the actual new threads? Who is going to start them and make the organizational posts? *waves into darkness* Is Pio around? Or can LMP start the threads?

[littlemanpoet]

Start the threads? Do we need a new one? Or are you just talking about starting a new post?

Firefoot, it really doesn't matter to me, either, whether it's 3 or 5 years. Could you express your thoughts in favor of 3 years?

[Thinlómien]

Start the threads? Do we need a new one? Or are you just talking about starting a new post?We were talking about starting a new game thread and possibly also a new discussion thread to symbolize the fresh start and make it more appealing to new and old players, as well as to reflect the time jump. I got the picture more or less everyone was for the idea...?

If we're *not* starting new threads, we should at least get a hold of pio and ask her to edit the first posts of this thread, seeing as we should update the mod list, the character list and the timeline. At the moment it's very misleading and un-newbie friendly.

[Thinlómien]

Also, if anyone wants their child characters to have stunted growth or lowered IQ because of malnutrition (okay that sounds really mean) or have their characters suffered an illness that's linked to malnutrition, check out this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malnutrition#Effects)Wikipedia article. I would also remind you that it's a unique opportunity to give your characters missing body parts thanks to frostbite.

*the storm crow flutters away*

[littlemanpoet]

I can see the point of new threads. Pio will have to start them. If I started them, they would not be vetted by the moderators.

[Firefoot]

Re: The timeshift - basically I feel like Scyld has a lot of changing and developing to do that I don't want to completely gloss over but I also don't want him to be unrealistically stagnant for too long. I can think of how to account for three years - if we do five, I'll just stretch it out but I'm not as happy about it.

I would also remind you that it's a unique opportunity to give your characters missing body parts thanks to frostbite. Good call - and if anyone has questions or needs resources on amputation/prostheses, let me know - that's what I do for work. :)

[Galadriel55]

I just had enough time to update my characters - I daresay Theolain needs a better character description now that he's seven! Here's the character post, with updates in italics:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=662764&postcount=3524

[Firefoot]

Update for Scyld here: http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=555438&postcount=207

Not sure Leof really needs an update - original bio here: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=552957&postcount=101

Anything happening in the intervening years I'll cover in in-character posts.

[Galadriel55]

Question - is there any particular time in the year when we're going to "cut" to post the in-between posts? I'm just thinking that it would be a bit awkward if we all pre-plan/write those posts ahead of time, and it would end up happening that one person posts about midsummer just after another person described the beautiful snow that has been falling down for days. I think we should either designate the "cut" time each year, or else, for each of the years, notify everyone about what time of year your post comes in so that we can post them in the correct order of season / weather.

Thoughts?

[Nogrod]

Sorry, but I've been away for five days on a work-trip and then had to catch up with my normal duties...

But as Legate said the "fell winter" was just a word coined to label one extremely bad winter that would help us get rid of extra characters from the Mead Hall - and add some therapeutic unity to the otherwise quarrelsome and torn place as they have needed to have survived it together.

I think it would be okay if people wished to come up with occurences during that winter by themselves in their posts after we start (like making their characters reminiscing of them or making some characters talking of them) and we others would then take them as given. So there would be no need for any details we'd need to come up with beforehand - except maybe a list of those who died (or disappeared).

Also my suggestion for the five years G55 kindly quoted was basically meant as nothing more but an initial suggestion, as one possible scenario.


~*~

If I'm not wrong, it seems only Scyld would benefit of a jump less than 5 years. That would suggest we'd make it five - which conclusion surely doesn't make Firefoot happy - but if the changes for all (or most) others are better with a 5-year jump I do think we should go with that.

A 5-year jump would give us an opportunity to include all our three ideas about the time jumped over into the plot (Aragorn's trip & the following good times and lot of people around, the muster of Rohan taking a lot of soldiers away & giving a reason to take Athanar away, and the terrible winter, the hardships and disaster it brings along & the healing effect it will have on the small community of the Mead Hall).

Also many characters would be so much more interesting to write if they'd need to go through some change or be of enough age (with the latter I'm thinking of Saeryn's twins: five year -olds are surely something more funny to write than three year -olds).


~*~

I'm also for a new thread if it is doable, mostly on reasons Lommy already voiced. It would get things clearer for old writers and more inviting (and less cryptic and insider-kind of thing) for the new writers.

Also I think that a couple of year's real-time pause, a five-year time-jump and a re-instating of the original patron to the Mead Hall are reason enough to start a third edition of the Mead Hall.

[Nogrod]

Question - is there any particular time in the year when we're going to "cut" to post the in-between posts?I think I suggested the ending of the hard winter. That might be an easy and a productive way to start as everyone would have their characters needing to go through their thoughts about going from hardship, anguish, and death into a new hope. It could be seen as a kind of a turning point. And there would be a lot to do to get things rolling again.

So a spring then?

Maybe a late one if the winter has been really long and bad. The snow melting, temperatures coming on the plus side (centigrade), green shyly coming forwards... A late April spring?

[Firefoot]

I like the springtime start.

Question - is there any particular time in the year when we're going to "cut" to post the in-between posts? I'm just thinking that it would be a bit awkward if we all pre-plan/write those posts ahead of time, and it would end up happening that one person posts about midsummer just after another person described the beautiful snow that has been falling down for days. I think we should either designate the "cut" time each year, or else, for each of the years, notify everyone about what time of year your post comes in so that we can post them in the correct order of season / weather. Seconded. So for me, Scyld I'm writing about the lead-up to his departure from the hall (so basically right where the current RPG leaves off), but then everything else I'll cover retrospectively wherever we pick up. Leof I'll just write retrospectively.

[Folwren]

I'm happy with Springtime, but should it be the springtime right after the Fell Winter?

Speaking of which, what kind of twins are they? Both boys? Identical? Or do you want to hold that back until they're actually born in-game? I think we just kind of assumed that the child is a boy, but having twins means there are two genders to decide on.

Oh. I don't know. Elempi, any thoughts on that? I kind of feel they'll be as much yours as mine.

I know four sets of twins - one set of identical boys (I think they were identical, anyway), one set of girls (though I never really got to know them), and two sets of boy and girl twins. I've been able to observe those two very close hand for the past three years, as they're at my school, and one set was actually in my class this year.

We haven't had any twins in this RPG have we?

[Galadriel55]

I think I suggested the ending of the hard winter. That might be an easy and a productive way to start as everyone would have their characters needing to go through their thoughts about going from hardship, anguish, and death into a new hope. It could be seen as a kind of a turning point. And there would be a lot to do to get things rolling again.

So a spring then?

Maybe a late one if the winter has been really long and bad. The snow melting, temperatures coming on the plus side (centigrade), green shyly coming forwards... A late April spring?

Hmm, I meant more about any posts we might do in between now and then - during the jump. I threw out the idea that we could pause on each year for a couple characters to post about what's been going on with them lately, which would help keep track of both the plot and the character development. There was some murmur of agreement and no opposing voices, so it kind of floated off. Do most people then want to just jump straight to the final spring, without any brief updates in between?


PS: Harreld and Garreth are twins (right?)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think it would be okay if people wished to come up with occurences during that winter by themselves in their posts after we start (like making their characters reminiscing of them or making some characters talking of them) and we others would then take them as given. So there would be no need for any details we'd need to come up with beforehand - except maybe a list of those who died (or disappeared).

Hmm, I meant more about any posts we might do in between now and then - during the jump. I threw out the idea that we could pause on each year for a couple characters to post about what's been going on with them lately, which would help keep track of both the plot and the character development. There was some murmur of agreement and no opposing voices, so it kind of floated off. Do most people then want to just jump straight to the final spring, without any brief updates in between?
It would really depend. Personally I think in any case, we will - and I daresay we even should - end up with some reminiscences of the past five years coming up from time to time in reminiscences and inside thoughts of our characters, because that is also a handy "literary device". So at least for some time, I'd expect such things to pop up once in a while, because I am sure people would have stuff to tell about the past winters.

But as for having some separate posts for in-between, that's also not necessarily bad, I think it all just depends on how we want to organise things. Nogrod's idea has probably the advantage of that everybody just can start writing whatever they want, and fill in the details about the past years in their own pace. The downside of it is that there is no clear control of the flow of information, i.e. if something major has happened to some characters, and their writers want everyone to know, they should make certain that everyone knows perhaps even on the discussion thread. Just so that we don't end up with one person writing how they greeted Harreld and shook his hand merrily, only later learning that Harreld had lost his hand to frostbite the previous winter. (You get the idea.) We probably should also get a clearer list of which characters are around and which are not, I think the list Firefoot made some posts back was a good start for orientation.

Maybe I am slightly in favour of the "flashback-insertion" style Nogrod suggests, it might make the initial posts a bit messy, but then it should also keep the writing flowing as we at the same time struggle to start up some things happening in "real life" at the current time at Mead Hall. Speaking of which, we can probably start with the reminiscing and stuff, but eventually we should also return to what we've been talking about earlier, inventing some sort of more coherent "plot" we'd eventually strive for.

In any case, I am also for starting the new thread for all the reasons already mentioned above a couple of times; can we get a hold of one of the mods somehow? A PM?

[Galadriel55]

I don't disagree about the benefits of reminiscing (and I think that's exactly how most of the events could be covered), but I'm in favour of doing some in-between posts in addition to the flashbacks. My reasons are mostly personal - I would prefer to slip in at least one post from Theolain's perspective, before he kicks the bucket. I mean, I'd love to slip in more posts from both my characters' perspectives, but I can make adjustments for those and think of a way to flashback their story. However, even if I delay Theolain's death until springtime, he would realistically probably already be unconscious / feverish / not in any condition to flashback for a long time. And I would have preferred to write his death in real-time (but if necessary, that's also adjustable).

But also, we have so many other characters leaving. Like, don't you want to post one last post from someone's POV before they go? It's true that these things can be reflected on later, but sometimes there is merit in posting one last post from, say, Athanar who says goodbye to a good chunk of his people. Also, while some events can be done in retrospect, I don't think it hurts to have f.ex. one real-time post that reflects the completion of the Mead Hall, or any of the other points of notice during the jump.

I get that I'm trying to stuff a storyline of Theolain growing up and becoming a completely different person during a time-jump, which is not the greatest idea, but I'm trying to come up with ways that would make it work. Maybe I could try doing a fever post from Theolain to cover those years. I'll figure something out if the majority votes for not doing in-between posts.

[Nogrod]

It seems I didn't manage to express my idea clearly enough, so let me restate it. So when I said: I think it would be okay if people wished to come up with occurences during that winter by themselves in their posts after we start (like making their characters reminiscing of them or making some characters talking of them) and we others would then take them as given. So there would be no need for any details we'd need to come up with beforehand - except maybe a list of those who died (or disappeared).I was referring to this one terrible winter just behind aka. to something that has been just upon people of the Mead Hall as we start writing. The idea being, that we wouldn't need to make a detailed description (painfully reached via a lot of PM'ing and "fact-gathering" by some poor souls who'd need to do that) of what has just happened the last few months of the killer-winter. So people writing about their characters reminiscing about those few months just behind could use their creativity to build the story kind of afterwards.


The question of whether there should be some intermediary posts covering parts of the whole 5-year jump (not just the one winter which just ended) from the POV of some of our characters I think is a different one.

I'm not too keen in making it a big thing as it will delay the starting quite considerably. I think we'll still be needing a kind of an "official post" introducing the Mead Hall to the new players and recounting the major events of the jumped years. And the idea of the jump surely is that we jump, we don't "play" those years.

That said I'll be perfectly fine with someone / anyone wishing to fill in and writing some posts describing their characters at some important crossroads of their personal development during our jump. We should just make a definitive DL for entering them so that everyone could look forwards to a set date when the common writing then actually begins.

Haha, just saw G55's post. Yes indeed, I might like to write a short post describing lord Athanar saying farewell to the Mead Hall... Oh I can see the kind and warm thoughts he'd have. :rolleyes:


~*~

Anyway. What we need then is some kind of a timetable, a goal or aim, as when to proceed and how.

I'd say it would be nice if we were able to kick this open and going in more or less a month, like say before the midsummer or around that time.

And with this being "open and going" I mean that there is a new thread (and discussion thread), all possible intermediary posts are done, the official "re-opening post" is there, all character bios are updated, the new writers are in with their bios and ready to roll - and we have some shared ideas as to what we're going to be doing...

One of the important things will of course be agreeing on the general outlines of the jump. I have made one suggestion based on the discussion here as to what happens during those five years. Are there any other ideas we should consider or is there something that is included in my suggestion you'd rather not have happening during the jump?

The sooner we agree on this issue the sooner people can get into thinking how their characters will become those characters they will be when we kick this off again (and yes, what kind of characters they will be indeed).

[littlemanpoet]

I have PM'd Pio, asked her to review what we've been saying over the last month or so here, and as she has occasion, to start a new rpg and discussion thread.

We'll need names for the new thread and discussion thread that distinguish it from the current ones. Any thoughts?

I'm not satisfied with a mere "Scarburg II" designation.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so summa summarum, the idea could be that we could basically continue writing the "in-between posts" now, even on the current normal game thread, so that whoever wants to fill something in, could do that - without any specific guidelines, kinda haphazardly? Because these posts probably won't need to rely much on each other, so we could have a post going like "During the first winter (after the events described above), Scyld was unhappy. But after visitors brought by King Elessar's travel had passed by, he bought himself a new horse." and after it a post by someone else who could start from any absolutely randomly different point, such as "Saeryn's newly born little boy got first time into big trouble when during the third summer of his life, he almost fell into a well." And after it still a different post about what Athanar was doing the previous winter. So the "in-between" posts could be rather character-centered than in any logical order, and that way, anyone could write them however they wished and however many they wished? (And please excuse the ridiculous examples I used.)

We'll need names for the new thread and discussion thread that distinguish it from the current ones. Any thoughts?

I'm not satisfied with a mere "Scarburg II" designation.

Good point, let's think about that too (among all the other things).

[Firefoot]

My suggestion would be that we start pretty immediately after the bad winter and Athanar's departure. I feel like a grieving/recovering hall is a great opportunity for character development/new relationships forming.

I think the reason there hasn't been much discussion on Nogrod's timeline is no one has a problem with it. But who is writing the interim post outlining/detailing it for the thread? Or is that even necessary? We also set that up as the backstory and allude to it as necessary (eg I would imagine some of those things are the sorts that Athanar would allude to in a goodbye speech, if Nogrod is so inclined to write one...).

I think too that the idea of letting the new thread deal primarily with events in the present is a good one. The post I'm currently writing for Scyld, I think I will tack onto the end of the current thread because it is far more relevant topically and chronologically to that timeline and sets him up better for the new thread, if no one minds.

[piosenniel]

Go ahead and start the discussion thread for your new RPG:

HERE (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888) - the So Far Unnamed RPG Discussion Thread

[Galadriel55]

Legate's idea for the intermediate posts sits quite well with me. I will tack on a post or two about my characters. :) *very happy me* They should be up within a week (probably even the next couple days).

[Nogrod]

Thanks Pio! Cheers!

I think the reason there hasn't been much discussion on Nogrod's timeline is no one has a problem with it. But who is writing the interim post outlining/detailing it for the thread? Or is that even necessary? We also set that up as the backstory and allude to it as necessary (eg I would imagine some of those things are the sorts that Athanar would allude to in a goodbye speech, if Nogrod is so inclined to write one...).I think it would be decent and reasonable to open the actual new thread with an opening post with a short (very short) general description of the Mead Hall and then outlining the recent events (the last five years we jump). After that we could then start posting on it, starting on the spring coming after the terrible winter.

That means - and I would suggest it alongside Legate & Firefoot - that all the so called "jump posts" aka. those dealing with matters happening before the "new beginning" (fex. Athanar's last post) would have a more natural place in the old thread. It would make the new thread feel more like starting anew.

Who would then write the opening post aka. the kind of official opening of the thread? Well, I think it would naturally be lmp.

[Nogrod]

Btw. It might be easier also to continue this discussion on this thread and start using the new one Pio opened a bit later when we are clearly in business of doing something for the new Mead Hall.

And following the nice and practical tradition, we could ask Pio to start the thread with the updated character bios & such.

What do you think?

[Folwren]

I like the idea of new storyline going into the new thread and stuff that happens during the 5-year leap going into the old thread. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.

I hope to get around to updating my character bios soon.

-- Folwren

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Btw. It might be easier also to continue this discussion on this thread and start using the new one Pio opened a bit later when we are clearly in business of doing something for the new Mead Hall.

And following the nice and practical tradition, we could ask Pio to start the thread with the updated character bios & such.

What do you think?

Sounds absolutely like a good idea to me. And for that matter, however, I think we could still technically put up something basic on the new thread soon, or as soon as we have e.g. at least decent idea about the starting conditions, in order to make it also possible for newly coming players to start thinking about their own stuff (what they want their characters to be like, how to introduce them and so on). But in any case, obviously now we have clear task before us (organizing our own character developments, updating bios, plus deciding on everything related to the shift), so that's good.

[littlemanpoet]

Who shall be Facilitator(s)?

[piosenniel]

Just an FYI for those of you talking about Fell Winters: There were two Fell Winters spoken of in Middle-earth - one in the First Age, the second in the Third Age. There was also a notable winter called The Long Winter, which especially hit Rohan in the Third Age.

See HERE (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Fell_Winter_%28Third_Age%29)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just an FYI for those of you talking about Fell Winters: There were two Fell Winters spoken of in Middle-earth - one in the First Age, the second in the Third Age. There was also a notable winter called The Long Winter, which especially hit Rohan in the Third Age.

See HERE (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Fell_Winter_%28Third_Age%29)

I think we might anyway want to come up with a specific name for the winter in question, because we (and the characters) are certainly going to refer to it often. Of course, if it was just the previous winter, we could call it "the last winter" or something like that. Or it could be simply "the winter", and everyone from around Scarburg would know which winter they are talking about. (Just to be clear, I anyway presume that it was a local horrible winter, people somewhere in the Shire or Gondor might not have any idea what we are talking about, but I guess in 90% cases that is not our concern. Meteorologically speaking, the cold front from the East had stopped just short of the Misty and the White Mountains and the revolving precipitation combined with dramatic drop of temperature plagued our part of Rohan for a long period of time...)

I am updating my bio for Hilderinc right now, and posting the edit soon. By the way, I have reread a lot of the previous thread (at least things that were relevant to Hilderinc, because I wanted to re-check his character) and I have to say there was more than I expected... And fairly funny events we've had here, I'd say.

[littlemanpoet]

A few points about this harsh winter.

It's the Fourth Age, the age of humans. No dark lord is to blame for it.

There is no human caused reason for a harsh winter, the technology is not available.

It can only come about by natural causes.

Historically, harsh winters were caused by volcanic explosions. Krakatoa comes to mind; so, to my mind, and would have to be our template. If so, then the winter would not be limited to winter months, but would, depending upon the size of the volcanic eruption, last well into spring, maybe have started the previous summer, and could within reason last longer than a year.

Thus, starvation would be the killer, and frostbite might or might not be an issue. All that would be needed is for temperatures to remain below that necessary for crops to grow.

This means that the sun would be dimmed and ash would have filled the sky for long periods, and would rain down on everything.

If we want a truly harsh winter, this seems like the only way to have it happen. Otherwise, all we could really, reasonably conjecture would be a tough winter that would not entail frostbite, starvation, or anything severe.

The only alternative to this would be a mini-ice age, which lasts centuries; I don't think we want to go there.

[Nogrod]

Who shall be Facilitator(s)?I'd say it should be you lmp.

I'd be both ready and willing to take a rear-seat once again as my work seems to be a bit erratic or unpredictable aka. I might have shorter and also longer periods when I'm unable to contribute not to talk of taking care of things. That was one of the reasons I wished to write lord Athanar off from the story leaving myself only Stigend and (half of) Cnebba.

I might take something like a co-facilitator's role though, at least in the beginning as I kind of feel it to be my duty to help the new Hall getting started as smoothly as possible. Also, if you writers wish / agree on it, I might think of starting to develop those local lords and their stories, possibly then intertwining them with the future of the Mead Hall.

[Nogrod]

Agreed on not wishing to have a mini ice-age... let's keep this within some boundaries. ;)

Historically, harsh winters were caused by volcanic explosions. Krakatoa comes to mind; so, to my mind, and would have to be our template. If so, then the winter would not be limited to winter months, but would, depending upon the size of the volcanic eruption, last well into spring, maybe have started the previous summer, and could within reason last longer than a year.

Thus, starvation would be the killer, and frostbite might or might not be an issue. All that would be needed is for temperatures to remain below that necessary for crops to grow.
I'm fine with a volcanic eruption somewhere, but I do think we might get away from the cause of the hardship with even less dramatic events.

Like let's say the spring (one year before we start the writing) was just very late. This kind of things happen every now and then. And when people finally got into sowing there was a sudden "back-winter" like we call it here in Finland killing all the crops. So they'd have very thin supplies for the next winter (maybe they managed to grow little something during the late summer) - which would then turn out to be a lot more severe winters are normally. Also those things just happen to happen every now and then. I remember in late 80's there was a winter in Finland when the temperature stayed below -30C for over two months (-22F).

So the unhappy combination of frostbited crops in the summer and severe winter would produce enough hardship - people who are not well nourished tend to be weaker against extreme cold as well.

And they would have fex. needed to have made a dramatic decision whether to eat their (already very low supplies of) seed grain during the winter to survive...

[Galadriel55]

I agree that we don't even need a volcanic eruption, just a chain of unfortunate events. A late spring frost that killed half the crops (is that the "back-winter"? We call it "freezeover" in Russian :)). A hailstorm just before harvest that brought down the other half. The winter started early - the ground froze deep before the snow fell, (which would reflect on the success of next spring's crops), and any late crops were lost. Then, a couple/few weeks later, there was a series of large snowstorms that effectively buried the residents of the Mead Hall and isolated them from the rest of the world, as the roads became unpassable (such events happen here almost every winter - we have freezing temperatures way before snow, and then all of a sudden the snow banks become quite high in a matter of a week). Perhaps we could talk about men trying to brave the roads to bring food from elsewhere, but no wagons could be brought in the snow (dogsleds not invented in Rohan yet?), so the results were minimal. Firewood could also be an issue; I don't remember the exact layout of the land around the Hall, but wasn't the wood bit farther away than is convenient? Also, the local lords would be heavily involved; from what I gather, any grain that the Hall has would have been collected as taxes from the lords, right? The hall itself doesn't do farming. The lords' people also suffered, and the lords could be blaming the Eorl for stealing their food and not helping [enough] during a time when his help was needed.

[piosenniel]

If you all are wishing for me to do a quick-link type of post on the new RPG Discussion thread (like this one in Scarburg Mead Hall Discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551131&postcount=2)) - please do make sure all your character edits go into your original character bio posts - links for the Scarburg players/characters are found HERE (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=14744).

Any new character bios should be placed on the new, So Far Unnamed RPG Discussion Thread - HERE (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I also think you let yourself overreact to the words "Fell winter", Lmp :) We are talking about awful winter in local parts of Rohan, or at most in the whole Rohan and, say, bits of Gondor. Really awful winter, but that happens and used to happen in our history just by very unfortunate combination of weather effects. Besides I daresay volcanic eruptions would be much more uncanonical than anything else we might conjure.

What Nog and especially G55 said was exactly what I was imagining (although Rohan I daresay can't be compared to Finland, but evil winters can come also elsewhere. I'd compare Rohan perhaps to Ukraine, lot of it actually is similar in terms of climate, vegetation, and surrounding biotopes, with perhaps the difference that Rohan is even more land-locked, which makes the climate less mild. Imagine, you get mostly eastern winds from the desert-ish lands beyond Anduin, and they get stopped by Misty Mountains, and if you get a dry summer and, by unfortunate accident, a very early dry frost, you're in for a bad start. Anyway, point being, a bad winter in such area is imaginable, and let us bear in mind we don't probably have amazingly extensive farming).

I'd actually be for G55s account being used as the real explanation, as that sums up a nice chain of events that might have caused the main problem: bad harvest, early frosts, some snowstorms for isolation, heŗe we go.

[Nogrod]

Anything you want to know about different kinds of winters and phenomena they might bring forward, just ask a Russian or a Finn... :D

What g55 said actuallly got me into thinking. Let's say the heavens give 1½ to 2 meters of snow. So without engine-powered modern snowplows it would be basically impossible to get anywhere, well at least without skis or snowshoes.

If the woods were something like less than a mile away it might be possible - with a couple of days of hard labor - to shovel a path and get fresh wood (which actually is pretty bad for burning: normally you'd have to dry the wood after cutting it for a year or two before using it, but the supplies of dry wood would most certainly run short).

But to shovel a riding path farther away in freezing cold and under-nourished... probably not: especially after the snow packs tightly into a snowdrift.

[piosenniel]

So, just for my sense of direction, is this the Player/Character List we're looking at for now:

Players with their probable characters for this RPG - with XX's designating characters who won't be played from the Meadhall

Firefoot –
Scyld (aka Nydfara) (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=555438&postcount=207)
Léofric (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=552957&postcount=101)
----------
Folwren -
Saeryn (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=554223&postcount=171) - Eodwine’s wife
Eoghan and Ruari (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=554223&postcount=171) - Saeryn and Eodwine's twins
Thornden (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551272&postcount=14)
Javan (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551272&postcount=14)
----------
Galadriel55 –
Ledwyn and her son Theolain (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=662764&postcount=3524) (Theolain – most likely going to perish)
(?)NPC or (?)
----------
Legate of Amon Lanc –
Hilderinc (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=612865&postcount=1626)
NPC Áforglaed (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622445&postcount=2390)+wife
----------
littlemanpoet –
Eodwine (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551231&postcount=13) (First Eorl of the Meadhall)
Rowenna (Wenna) (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551596&postcount=39)

Harreld Smith (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551596&postcount=39) - possibly an NPC
Garreth Smith (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551596&postcount=39) - possibly and NPC

XX Master Falco Boffin - has gone back to the Shire
XX Laerdil (Elf) - won't be around. He's probably over the sea by now.
----------
Nogrod –
Stigend (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551484&postcount=35) – will be occasionally mentioned/brought in by another character
Cnebba (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551323&postcount=22) - with Thinlómien
NPC one of Athanar’s soldiers (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=622445&postcount=2390) (?) or (?)

XX Athanar (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=612975&postcount=1641) – off on an away adventure with Durelin’s ‘Coenred (Coen) (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=613986&postcount=1690)’
----------
Thinlómien --
Wilheard (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=612851&postcount=1624) - (now with added trauma; and probably also completed soldier training - he was only 17 and now he's going to be 20 or 22)
Modtryth (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551323&postcount=22) - possibly as a secondary character
Cnebba (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551323&postcount=22) - with Nogrod

XX Wulfric – will not be played in this game

-------------------------------------------------
For the new players who have joined in the discussion on this thread --

Use this short Character Bio (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=696842&postcount=1) form, please…

Inziladun – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888) when they’re done

Mithalwen – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888) when they’re done

Snowdog – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888) when they’re done

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Anything you want to know about different kinds of winters and phenomena they might bring forward, just ask a Russian or a Finn... :D

What g55 said actuallly got me into thinking. Let's say the heavens give 1½ to 2 meters of snow. So without engine-powered modern snowplows it would be basically impossible to get anywhere, well at least without skis or snowshoes.

If the woods were something like less than a mile away it might be possible - with a couple of days of hard labor - to shovel a path and get fresh wood (which actually is pretty bad for burning: normally you'd have to dry the wood after cutting it for a year or two before using it, but the supplies of dry wood would most certainly run short).

But to shovel a riding path farther away in freezing cold and under-nourished... probably not: especially after the snow packs tightly into a snowdrift.

Yes, basically I think what we are looking for is snowdrifts isolating the local area for a while, and once you can't use carriages and horses to transport the necessary supplies (which is fairly easy to happen), then you are in a bad enough condition.

And Pio, yes, I think that's more or less what we are looking at right now. I am not sure if somebody had mentioned some previous players still being possibly interested in showing up?

[Nogrod]

Thanks Pio, I think that looks something like it should, with some questionmarks maybe added at this point.

Another thing then is that we have some quite central / visible figures who were either written by someone in our last installment (like Kath's characters) or who were co-written by others (like Garstan and his kids). We should come up with what to do with them (unless the original writers turn up, that is) aka. which ones are going to die or disappear and which will be continued to be written by others.

Anyone doing a kind of update-reading these days (like Legate told he had been doing) might do well to pick up the names of other minor characters we have invented there as it is nicer to use some already defined (or at least named) characters as possible NPC's than go and invent new people every time you need one.

I was thinking about people like this old Raban who was to teach Javan how to make a chain mail as a punishment, or some named soldiers from both Eodwine's and Athanar's troops etc.

[piosenniel]

If any former Meadhall players express interest, I'll be sure to put them on the list...
:cool:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I updated my bio for Hilderinc (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=612865&postcount=1626), so now I can start focusing on all the other things that need adressing. Well, after I get some sleep, that is :)

[littlemanpoet]

I'll adjust my thinking to simply a bad winter in Rohan (Tolkien said that Rohan is about the same latitude and climate as France, I believe).

I'll facilitate.

With Ginna either gone or a NPC, I will probably let the two blacksmiths pretty much be passive, slipping toward NPC. I think I'd like to start by concentrating my energies with Eodwine and Rowenna. That's enough. Falco is back in the Shire.

If anything is needed from me, let me know.

[piosenniel]

I'd say it should be you lmp.

I'd be both ready and willing to take a rear-seat once again as my work seems to be a bit erratic or unpredictable aka. I might have shorter and also longer periods when I'm unable to contribute not to talk of taking care of things. That was one of the reasons I wished to write lord Athanar off from the story leaving myself only Stigend and (half of) Cnebba.

I might take something like a co-facilitator's role though, at least in the beginning as I kind of feel it to be my duty to help the new Hall getting started as smoothly as possible. Also, if you writers wish / agree on it, I might think of starting to develop those local lords and their stories, possibly then intertwining them with the future of the Mead Hall.

If you don't mind, I'm listing you as lmp's able assistant - that way, if I can't get hold of lmp for something, I can bounce it off of you. Does that sound alright?

[littlemanpoet]

If you don't mind, I'm listing you as lmp's able assistant - that way, if I can't get hold of lmp for something, I can bounce it off of you. Does that sound alright?

I would like that.

[Nogrod]

If you don't mind, I'm listing you as lmp's able assistant - that way, if I can't get hold of lmp for something, I can bounce it off of you. Does that sound alright?That sounds good.

[Firefoot]

pio - I do intend to keep writing Leof so he can stay linked on the character list.

Lommy - I wonder if in the absence of his brother a more grown up Wilheard might start making friends with Leof? They are the same age at any rate, even if they differ quite significantly in temperament. Something top think about anyway...

-------------------------------------------------

Leof onboard!!!! ~ pio

[Folwren]

I just read Saeryn's character bio. She is a twin. Does anyone know what became of her brother?

[Galadriel55]

I just read Saeryn's character bio. She is a twin. Does anyone know what became of her brother?

Degas! No clue what he's up to at this point; I'd have to search that up. If he's still around, he could be gone to visit Gondor (he normally lives there - aside from the Mead Hall - right?) And that gives Saeryn a biological predisposition for fraternal twins (which doesn't have to stop them from being very similar in appearance if so desired).

If the woods were something like less than a mile away it might be possible - with a couple of days of hard labor - to shovel a path and get fresh wood (which actually is pretty bad for burning: normally you'd have to dry the wood after cutting it for a year or two before using it, but the supplies of dry wood would most certainly run short).

Well, a healthy forest always has its supply of dry deadwood, but finding it between the still green stuff and the already rotten stuff and dragging it home is a different matter. Also, this wood tends to be on the smaller stick size, so it wouldn't feed the fires for long.


I apologize for the lack of posts on the game thread - my mother was working nights and I had to take care of the little guy in the house. Now she has a break, though, so the first post should be up soon.

[piosenniel]

I just read Saeryn's character bio. She is a twin. Does anyone know what became of her brother?

Here's Fea's post to you on the discussion thread: HERE (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=625255&postcount=2428)

Here's her last post on the game thread: HERE (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=580038&postcount=402) - at least as far as I could find.....

Looks like you could write him in whatever way you need to......

[Snowdog]

I have one simple question... What year exactly will we be re-starting this?

[littlemanpoet]

I'm not sure I have this right, but I know this started in Fourth Age 14, a year passed, and now five years later, it would be Fourth Age 20. Or did more time pass than I recall?

[Galadriel55]

I'm not sure I have this right, but I know this started in Fourth Age 14, a year passed, and now five years later, it would be Fourth Age 20. Or did more time pass than I recall?

When Eodwine fell ill, it was autumn, from what I recall. That was probably the fall of FA14 (or already FA15? I'm hazy on early SMH history). It was still winter when we stopped writing. Since Saeryn is pregnant, I assume it's the winter of the same year (:p). The bad winter was in year 19, and the year we're jumping in is then 20 (but I forget when the year "turns" - isn't it March? Even if it's in early spring, though, the winter was long and we would probably be starting in early FA20). I believe that Eodwine & co arrived in the spring of the same year as Eodwine fell ill, that there were no years in between. So your calculations seem to be correct.

[Snowdog]

So it will be Spring of 4th Age year 20, after a harsh winter. Got it. :)

[Folwren]

Thanks, Pio, for your help.

I will try to get my bios updated before this weekend, and before I leave. I hope we can start writing the actual story soon. I was glad to see Firefoot's post on the old game thread!

How do we begin the new game thread? Do we need to plan who's posting first? What else do we have to sort out before we can begin?

[Folwren]

Alrighty, I edited Javan's, Thornden's, and Saeryn's bios. Javan and Thornden I am happy with. Saeryn, I'm not so sure about. I reserve the right to alter it if necessary. :p I may have made Saeryn a bit too steady. We'll see.

[piosenniel]

I need to put whatever is your first post for the game on the game thread - so, whoever is going to write the first post, just post it on the new RPG discussion thread thread HERE (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888).

And by the way - it would be great if you came up with a NAME for the game. So far, it's just being called the So Far Unnamed RPG.

:)

[littlemanpoet]

I'll take a stab at a name for the new thread, and if there is a hue and cry against it, I suppose Pio can change it.

Scarburg Meadhall: Hard Winters

Who says there has to be only one hard winter? And we could change up what kind of 'hard', too. It could be hard ground because of drought, hard because orcs or bandits raid it, hard emotionally, or hard weather.

I'm happy to write the first post, but I think we need to wait a little while for others (and me) to write their seque posts on the old thread.

[Folwren]

Knowing us, it'll take another 10 years before we get to the next winter season. What if it was

Scarburg Meadhall: After the Hard Winter

[piosenniel]

Folwren - are you going to write a brief bio for Saeryn and Eodwine's twins?

[Folwren]

I need to talk to Elempi first.

[Folwren]

NAME: Eoghan and Ruari

AGE/GENDER/RACE/WHERE FROM: Eoghan is a boy, and Ruari is a girl. They're about 5 years old. They were born at Scarburg, the son and daughter of Eodwine and Saeryn.

APPEARANCE: Being twins, Eoghan and Ruari are both somewhat small for their age. Eoghan has blond hair, as his father, but his eyes are hazel, like Saeryn's. Ruari was born with fiery red hair, and her eyes are green.

BITS OF CHARACTER/HISTORY YOU FEEL MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN DEFINING THE CHARACTER: Ruari was born first, and though an hour's difference in age wouldn't seem to account for much, it is clear she is the oldest. She takes the lead in the twins' activities, and Eoghan follows meekly behind doing almost everything she encourages him to do. Eoghan is quiet and passive and relatively well behaved when left to his own devices. Ruari is curious and active and prone to trouble. They are both intelligent and agile and capable children.

---------------------------

Folwren - I've placed this with your bio on Saeryn and linked it to the new RPG's PLAYER/CHARACTER list ~*~ Pio

[littlemanpoet]

Um .... could we change that to Scarburg Meadhall: the Hard Years? The ideas are already cracking in my brain for this. :P

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Whoa! Great activity here. For the record, Hard Winters sounds brilliant to me as a name, just what LMP said - it can signify anything we can come up with also for the time to come, and I think it nicely goes with the idea we had with making the RPG a bit more "dramatic"...

Anyway, I am currently on short vacation (and Lommy too) for about a week, so I am not sure if I will manage to write anything right now (I want to write a summary thing for Hilderinc during those years), but there shouldn't be that much. So just as soon as I have a little bit of time, I can write it in a very short time, and also put up updated bio for Áforglaed and my new character, aka his new-found wife (or wife-to-be, as I am beginning to think, to allow for a bit of dynamic).


EDIT: crossposted with LMP regarding the thread name - honestly, I think "Hard Winters" has a bit more specific and epic sound to it (after all, the term "years" and "winters" can be used synonymously to a certain extent), but whichever everyone thinks sounds better. :)

P.S. And Folwren, I wanted to say, I really like the concept of the twins, looking forward to them being around...

[littlemanpoet]

I'm fine with the idea from "the voice that gainsayeth" - let's hear what people like better. :) - the hard winters or the hard years?

[Firefoot]

I also like the sound of "Hard Winters" - regardless of how accurate it ends up being timeline-wise. :)

[piosenniel]

I know I'm not playing in this RPG, but I like the ring of "Hard Winters" - without the modifier of Scarburg Meadhall attached to it.

Makes it seem more of a stand-along game, and somehow it has the feeling of deeper dramas - not only of the weatherish sort but of the personal....

Just my dramatic 2-cents worth......
;)

[Folwren]

I just did a little research to see what needs to be added to our timeline.

It looks like Eodwine returned to Scarburg at the end of the December/early January.

Saeryn will have her delivery in May.

Nogrod, when do you think Athanar will leave the hall?

What other events need to go on the timeline? We could note Scyld's departure, just to have it there for future reference, if need be.

[Snowdog]

I know I'm not playing in this RPG, but I like the ring of "Hard Winters" - without the modifier of Scarburg Meadhall attached to it.

Makes it seem more of a stand-along game, and somehow it has the feeling of deeper dramas - not only of the weatherish sort but of the personal....

Just my dramatic 2-cents worth......
;)

I like the name as well for these same reasons.

I'm working on a character profile now. Hope to post it next week.

[littlemanpoet]

It looks like Eodwine returned to Scarburg at the end of the December/early January.

Saeryn will have her delivery in May.



Saeryn gave birth in May, FA 16. Having just scanned about 25 pages of rpg last night, of that I am sure. :P

I kinda like "Hard Winters" too. Plain and simple. And evocative.

[Mithalwen]

So the reboot will be early spring of FA20? If I recycle Elfthain, and I would like to I think since he is on the periphary of my private fanfic and I know him well and like him - though I wouldn't have chosen to write a male of that age otherwise - he would be 17 I think if I honour the dates of his previous appearance at the Edoras mead hall and Darker Days.... given his background I imagine he would be whatever the Rohirric equivalent of a esquire would be...scutifer? shieldbearer? arrowfodder? - a young man of good standing attached to a noble household to learn the knightly trade Are there any precedents in this version for such things? I don't want to tie myself in to many knots but it would be nice not to be too discordant with what has gone before.

He could either be a new arrival having started elsewhere - though whether that would be "normal" like medical student rotations or exceptional I don't know or given the time frame he could have been there since 14..

If he would be a nuisance I will come up with someone else..

[Folwren]

Oh! That would be amazing, Mith! Javan (my character) is about 18 now and I'd love to have someone closer to his age. The other boys in the game are four or five years younger than Javan, I think.

[piosenniel]

Just an FYI for the new players in this extension from the Meadhall:

For the new players who have joined in the discussion on this thread --

Use this short Character Bio (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=696842&postcount=1) form, please…

Inziladun – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888) when they’re done

Mithalwen – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888) when they’re done

Snowdog – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18888) when they’re done

~*~ Thanks! -- Pio

[piosenniel]

So.... now the RPG and its Discussion Thread are titled: Hard Winters

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/ubb/icons/icon4.gif is the icon for both the threads - unless you want to change it :)

[littlemanpoet]

given his background I imagine he would be whatever the Rohirric equivalent of a esquire would be...scutifer? shieldbearer? arrowfodder?

Shield-bearer would be most appropriate for the Eorlingas. What's scutifer?
Arrowfodder? I hope not - you want him to live, right? ;)

Now that I've read much of the rpg, I get it why Firefoot was having some difficulty with the time jump. Now I am too: Scyld and Rowenna had a plotline and to just skip over it seems difficult at best.

I wonder if we need to spin it off into a separate rpg, or outline the events? Any thoughts? For those who have not carefully read the Scyld-Rowenna exchanges, this involves them teaming up to figure out who the dead body in the smoke-hut was, and how he died.

[Thinlómien]

Just a quick note as I'm abroad and just online on my phone - I'll update my bios on Tuesday once I'm back in Finland and have consulted Nogrod about Cnebba and Modtryth etc. I might even write a post then!

Firefoot - I'd love some interaction with Leof and Wilheard! I think Wilheard will need a friend, too, after having lost his brother (poor boy), but I'll get back to you about the details next week. :)

PS. Everything looking nice and busy here!

[Firefoot]

Now that I've read much of the rpg, I get it why Firefoot was having some difficulty with the time jump. Now I am too: Scyld and Rowenna had a plotline and to just skip over it seems difficult at best.

I wonder if we need to spin it off into a separate rpg, or outline the events? Any thoughts? For those who have not carefully read the Scyld-Rowenna exchanges, this involves them teaming up to figure out who the dead body in the smoke-hut was, and how he died.

I feel better knowing at least one person doesn't think I was just being whiny about the time jump. :rolleyes: ;)

Anyway, my current thought process was pretty much to just drop that plotline - they aren't able to find anything out and it stays a mystery. As I wrote in my most recent post, Scyld tries to follow up, gets scared of what fingers get pointed his way, and decides to leave. He'll go first to Dol Amroth and obtain some sort of letter of pardon from Linduial to get his name cleared, maybe spend some time there, then go track down his family, and finally after five years now be returning to the hall. I think he might need to acquire some kind of trade in that amount of time as well - right now he has an odd collection of talents but nothing that would really earn him a living, which seems problematic. If anyone who has a little more knowledge about the culture has thoughts, I'd appreciate it. Alternately, if his current skill set would be sufficient to put him to some use in the Hall, that would be cool too but I have no idea what sort of role that would be.

Any of this can change though.

On a separate note, with all these young men running around I think it might be a really good time to introduce Leof's now 18 year old sister... :Merisu:

[Folwren]

I didn't know Leof had a sister! Sounds like fun. :D

I was thinking it's about time Thornden found himself a wife. He might never marry, though, because he'd be one to fall slowly in love, and he hasn't shown any sign of liking any of the girls currently at the Hall.

For the record, I didn't think you were being whiny about it, Firefoot.

K, Lommy, what happened to Wilheard's brother? Wilheard and Wulfric were Athanar's sons, right? I know there was some discussion of them above that I missed.

[Mithalwen]

Scutifer is of similar etymology to Esquire also meaning shield bearer I found it when looking for a less French alternative to Esquire but it is not unfrench enough really being so latinate... Armiger (armour bearer, senior esquire) has the same problem. Of course it may not be appropriate to translate too closely the chivalric tradition but the Rohirrim clearly trained ... some may be born fighters but soldiers have to be made.

And yes I want him to live, I am fairly hopefuk he will get to grow old on his beloved farm eventually but I don't know so much what happens to him in the meantime.

[Folwren]

I am leaving today for a long trip. I won't be on the Barrow Downs for a few weeks. Carry on without me! I hope it all gets started in my absence! I'm excited.

[littlemanpoet]

Firefoot and I have decided that Scyld's and Rowenna's efforts to uncover the identity and murderer of the dead man found in the curing shed did not turn out: all leads led to dead ends.

What I know, then, is that Scyld is absent from Scarburg for a few years; is that sudden and unexplained, or not? I don't know, that's up to Firefoot.

During this time, I presume that Rowenna will have stayed at Scarburg; she has no reason to go anywhere else, unless Scyld had told her of his plans, in which case she might have been tempted to join him, but probably not as he has not yet given her enough reason to trust him enough.

So Rowenna stays at Scarburg, and also remains unwed as she is unwilling to marry anyone at all, deeming none of the men quite to her liking. Whether she admits it to herself or not, this is because she is comparing all men to Scyld and finds them wanting.

Meanwhile, she has become as close to Saeryn as she is capable of doing, and has served as one of the babysitters for the twins. Has she been the only one? Has she made it so by alienating everyone else from the task? If so, could her influence be one reason why the little girl is so wilfull? Just some thoughts to mull. :)

[Firefoot]

What I know, then, is that Scyld is absent from Scarburg for a few years; is that sudden and unexplained, or not?
Mostly. He's not going to leave unannounced because he's not such a good woodsman that he'll want to leave without good provisions. I think he will say to Rowenna something along the lines of, "I talked to some of those living nearby and could find nothing out about the fire or the body, but I did find out about some things from my past that I need to see to. I'll be gone for a while, but I plan to return. See ya, bye." ;) If you want to co-write some dialogue, let me know; otherwise I can let you know what I actually come up with when I write the post - this week sometime (this weekend was Leof and Cerwyn's turn, so they're ready to go now). I think he could be enticed to tell her about the letter from his brother as well.

[littlemanpoet]

I think he will say to Rowenna something along the lines of, "I talked to some of those living nearby and could find nothing out about the fire or the body, but I did find out about some things from my past that I need to see to. I'll be gone for a while, but I plan to return. See ya, bye." If you want to co-write some dialogue, let me know; I can let you know what I actually come up with when I write the post - I think he could be enticed to tell her about the letter from his brother as well.

What say we co-write the dialogue on the Scarburg thread?

[Firefoot]

What say we co-write the dialogue on the Scarburg thread?
Sounds good.

[Nogrod]

I managed to contact Celuien on Fb and she promised to tell what she thinks about her characters' (Garstan, Garmund & Leothern) fate soon enough.

That said, are there any ideas coming from those still writing as if any of their characters might be dead or just gone, or are all the characters still alive and around?

I like the idea that the "mystery of the dead body" remains a mystery - there's some fodder we could come back later on if we came up with a way to integrate it back to the storyline. And if not... well then it remains a mystery.

And cool you guys are making this Rowenna & Scyld stuff. I think that's the right way to address any things that would be left unsaid and undone otherwise.


Then some practical questions.

1. What do you think lmp: would you like to write the "offiicial narrative" for the jump or should I do it (as my last duty as the caretaker of the earlier thread), or should we do it together?

With the last option, which I might prefer (as the full general outline people seemed to have accepted was kind of my making), I could give you something like an initial post (or the barebones of it) for you to then edit, add, delete, change, rephrase... as you wish.

2. Should we try to give ourselves a deadline as to when everyone should be ready? Of course people write when they have time - and they have some major (like Foley now) and minor (like me the past few days) hindrances or force majeure to not being able to write at any given target date - but a target-date in general?

Next week? Two weeks from now? Before the Midsummer? In July?

I'd suggest something like two weeks / before Midsummer. What do you think?

[Galadriel55]

In about two weeks sounds like a good idea. I can't predict when I'll be able to write, but that should give me enough time.

Speaking of which, I just had one more post planned for the jump. Legate, would you like to write that as a co-post? Or I can sketch the post out and PM it to you for editing? What's the better option for you?

As for my characters, Ledwyn would be alive and mostly well. Theolain will kick the bucket very soon...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Speaking of which, I just had one more post planned for the jump. Legate, would you like to write that as a co-post? Or I can sketch the post out and PM it to you for editing? What's the better option for you?

Whichever way is better for you. If you have an idea, you can sketch it out and I can add/edit whatever is necessary.

For that matter, I had a bit of busy time in the last week, but I assume I should have time soon to write down something for my character(s).

And as for the "deadline" idea, I think that's a good idea as well. Two weeks or such would be good, I'd say.

[littlemanpoet]

Theolain? Awww. :(

Two weeks sounds good.

I like the idea of working together on that big post, Nogrod, and please do start it. PM should work.

[Nogrod]

Lmp: I'll take time to write the first version of the Jump-post in a few days (the weekend the very latest) and we can PM-build it from there.

Starting the new thread before the Midsummer - or to honour the Midsummer perhaps? (Especially if the name of the thread is referring to hard winters...) :)

[Thinlómien]

K, Lommy, what happened to Wilheard's brother? Wilheard and Wulfric were Athanar's sons, right? I know there was some discussion of them above that I missed.Wulfric and Wilheard went with King Éomer('s troops) on a campaign to the East and poor Wulfric died there. So woeful Wilheard is going to be assigned to Scarburg to "get over it" and "man up". I smell trouble... :D

Firefoot, Wilheard will be arriving to Scarburg about the time we're picking up the timeline again, so he can't be friends with Leof yet when we start. However, given that Wilheard is an introvert who loves animals, I'm sure he's going to be around the stables a lot, so he'll have to interact with Leof, and I'm looking forward to writing that. :) I can't promise they will become friends because my characters tend to do what they will once I start typing :D but I don't see it as unlikely and personally I'd love it if Wilheard actually made friends instead of enemies...

[Thinlómien]

NAME: Wilheard

AGE/GENDER/RACE/WHERE FROM: 21, male, Eorling, originally from Edoras

APPEARANCE: Wilheard is a tall young warrior, but a little on the skinny side. There's a hint of gray in his blue eyes and his hair is pale blond. The most notable feature in Wilheard's face is an ugly, ridged scar that runs from his cheekbone to his chin and gives his face something of a permanent sneer.

BITS OF CHARACTER/HISTORY YOU FEEL MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN DEFINING THE CHARACTER: Wilheard is not a kind man, and his quick wit is accompanied by a sharp tongue. Being quiet and self-centered, he usually prefers his own company to that of others, and may seem cold or eccentric to strangers. However, he's not as cool and calculating as you might expect, but rather impulsive and even foolhardy. He is a proficient soldier and has a knack for handling animals.

Wilheard is the younger son of the Lord Athanar, and always expected a military career as the right hand man of his older brother Wulfric. Since their childhood, the two were always stirring up mischief and trouble wherever they went, and they were also very close. On their first proper campaign to Rhûn Wulfric was slain by the Easterlings and Wilheard's life was turned upside down. He is now mourning the loss of his brother and trying to come to terms with his new position as Lord Athanar's heir.

Original bio for Wilheard and his brother Wulfric: [x (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=612851&postcount=1624)]

-------------------------------

LINKED ~*~ Pio

[littlemanpoet]

Sounds good, Noggie Looking forward to it.

Meanwhile, a PM post between Scyld and Rowenna is growing into a novel of its own, as is its wont. :p What a pair of self-preservationist romantics. :D

[Thinlómien]

^ Pio, I wrote a new bio for Wilheard, seeing as his previous one was shared with his now deceased brother. Could you replace the link on the new discussion thread to refer to the post above? (DONE ~*~ Pio)

Also you can remove the tentative comments about Wilheard and Modtryth from the character list. :) Sorry for causing you extra work! (DONE ~*~ Pio)

PS. Updating Modtryth and Cnebba soon.

PPS. Oops, cross-posted with Elempi.

[Firefoot]

Meanwhile, a PM post between Scyld and Rowenna is growing into a novel of its own, as is its wont. :p What a pair of self-preservationist romantics. :D
Hahaha, truth.

Lommy, I'm more interested in interaction than it's outcome, so I'm fine with Leof and Wilheard becoming friends or enemies, or something in between... based on your bio, my initial thought is that Leof would respect Wilheard's ability with animals but be quite off-put by his personality. We'll see. :)

Also, to lmp and Nogrod as you work on the opening post for the thread - I just wanted to let you know that I wrote into Leof's first post for the new thread that he's been working on getting a small horse breeding program up and going at the Hall. I have no idea if that factors into what you're writing or not, but I wanted to throw it out there since it's a bit of a big picture thing as well as a Leof-specific thing.

[Thinlómien]

I updated Modtryth and Cnebba's bios (obviously consulting Nogrod on the latter), if anyone wants to have a look, they're here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=551323&postcount=22). Basically, nothing new with Modtryth, but Cnebba is 12 so we'll be up to some teenager shenanigans, and also his apprenticeship (a little postponed because of the hard years) will be a pressing matter when things in Scarburg start getting back to normal.

Lommy, I'm more interested in interaction than it's outcome, so I'm fine with Leof and Wilheard becoming friends or enemies, or something in between... based on your bio, my initial thought is that Leof would respect Wilheard's ability with animals but be quite off-put by his personality. We'll see.Yes, it will be interesting! To be honest, Wilheard is not a people person, so his initial reaction to Leof is likely to be indifference. We'll see where it goes from there...

[Nogrod]

Jumping to the present Mead Hall from late year 15 to spring 19... (only four years!!!) So this is my first version of it - and I will send it to lmp to especially add things from the POV of the Mead Hall itself and to correct / change any bad ideas I have not thought through - and to make it a more consistent narrative.

But now is the time to say your word for what happens. These could be the general outlines, but what say you?


~*~

Year 16 of the Fourth Age saw the finishing of the Mead Hall. Not all wounds were healed inside the Mead Hall but with Saeryn giving birth to twins even those discrepancies seemed to be set aside by most people for the time being. It did help the two lords seemed to get along well enough and seemed content with a kind of sharing of responsibilities. Lord Eodwine still being convalescent and a father of the newborn it was just natural lord Athanar took care of most of the things at the Mead Hall – but it seemed he was actually hearing lord Eodwine with his decisions. And that helped many original Mead Hall residents to trust him a bit more.

The summer then was far busier anyone could have expected. With king Elessar’s trip to lake Evendim all the areas under the rule of the king received a host of visitors taking their trips to areas they had never ventured as they were deemed safer with the king himself showing it was safe to take the road. The Scarburgians were even forced to build a two-storey shed for visitors who were happy with a more modest accomodation.

The local lords saw this as an opportunity to thrive and lost their interest in the Mead Hall – and the people of the Mead Hall just had no time to worry about the local lords in turn.


As the spring of year 17 of the Fourth Age came on it carried with it troublesome news. There were increasing number of reports of raids by Easterling tribesmen and groups of orcs from Wold, East Emnet and North Marches.

King Eomer wasted no time but called for a partial muster of northern and north-eastern Rohan to face the challenge. As the most senior commander of the region lord Athanar was called to lead the party of the rohirrim from Mid-Emnet – and was summoned to take most of his men with some of lord Eodwine’s soldiers as well. His sons Wulfric and Wilheard were mustered too alongside most of the local lords and their sons.

Lord Eodwine had not fully recovered but was forced to take the full responsinbility of the Mead Hall once again – with only a handful of active-duty soldiers left to defend the Mead Hall.

[A group of scattered easterlings flee away from the battle in East Emnet and will cause trouble at the Mead Hall which the deplenished Mead Hall wins?]

The riders of Riddermark did drive the scattered enemies away from the eastern parts of Rohan but before they could return more serious news were brought to Edoras. King Elessar had come back from the north and was building an army to ride north-east, to Rhûn, to fight the source of the raiders that festered the eastern borderlands of Gondor as well – and of which the raiders to northern Rohan were only a small part.

Lord Athanar and his troops were mustered with the larger call to arms and they rode beside king Eomer to the east led by the high king Elessar himself and his Gondorian army late in year 17.


In year 18 of the Fourth Age the spring came late and the northern parts of Rohan missed their first sowing. Most of the men were waging a war in the east under the banners of king Elessar of Gondor. It was a time of troubles as it was clear there wouldn’t be as much harvest this year. Many thought these were ill omens indeed.

The rohirrim came back from the war in the east in early autumn. It was a reason for some optimism and there were celebrations in the Scarburg Mead Hall as well with so many returning from the campaign – and tears wept for those who didn’t. Lord Athanar’s older son Wulfric had fallen on the last battle of the campaign. [we could add here a name or two from some soldiers we have already named from both Eodwine’s or Athanar’s men]

Lord Athanar had been rewarded by king Eomer for his bravery and leadership in the war in the East with an eorlship nearer his native lands in Edoras – and a lot more prestigious post as well. Thus king Eomer also nicely resolved the problem of the unhappy double leadership in Scarburg seeing that lord Eodwine was good enough to claim back his seat as the eorl of the Scarburg Mead Hall.

But the worst was to come. The men came back just in time to help with the second harvest and everything looked a bit better, but just after two days of harvesting the winter came. And it was just October.

With the temperatures falling well below zero for several consecutive days it was clear the rest of the harvest was not going to be resurrected. Lord Athanar decided that his people would be too many mouths to feed while not able to produce enough in return by hunting or other means, and took a large party with him back to Edoras and to his seat of eorlship, promising he would ask for king Eomer for any supplies the kingdom could send them. He left a few soldiers behind to help lord Eodwine though as the number of active duty soldiers of the Mead Hall had become thin indeed.

But then came the snow. Had lord Athanar just barely gotten away the snow filled the fields, then the forests, then the roads. The Scarburg Mead Hall was surrounded by snow – heaping over two meters where the wind stacked it outside the perimeters of the buildings of the Hall. The Mead Hall was completely isolated from the world – it was even isolated from the nearest local lords and their dwellings.

By time the snowbanks hardened and made it very hard to dig through them – but new snowstorms also kept the surface of the snow treachery so that it wasn’t every day people of Scarburg could walk on top of it either. They manged to establish a narrow path to where they had chopped wood for the buildings but there was not that much wood left.


In year 19 of the Fourth Age the winter took even firmer grip of the Mead Hall.

In February they burnt the wood of the sheds they had built just two years ago just to keep warm. They send a few soldiers to find help during sunny cold days of low temperatures in March when the snow drifts now almost three meters high around them carried a walking man – but none of them returned.

In late March the death-toll started rising when the weakness and cold did their job and exhausted those weak enough. In April they were eating bark of the trees boiled in snow by burning the logs from the upper stories of the guest wing.

In May the spring finally came. The snow melted fast with the temperatures rising above 20 C.

Five days after the sudden warming of the weather the people of the Mead Hall heard a remarkable sound from far away: something very noisy was coming through the snow.

The carts filled with food were spotted first by the kids who ran back to the hall screaming in joy. They were saved!

Leading the convoy was lord Athanar’s son Wilheard.

[littlemanpoet]

.... when things in Scarburg start getting back to normal.

Normal? Normal!?! With Hard Winters as the title? Not likely. Bwa ha ha ha! :D

Nogrod, I am extremely glad that I left the building of that narrative in your capable hands. Well done! Please do PM me and I will add a few touches here and there, no need to remove a single thing.

[Firefoot]

Since G55's posts jump significantly in time, I attached the co-written Scyld and Rowenna post onto the end of my last Scyld post to keep the timeline in order.

[Nogrod]

I hope you got it via PM lmp as I forgot to click the "get read receipt" -button (without it I always ponder whether I managed to send something or not). :)

And thanks for the kind words - it was fun to think over and write...

[littlemanpoet]

I got it. I'll take some time with it. But I need to have it done by Friday's end, I think. Much to do after that!

[littlemanpoet]

Since G55's posts jump significantly in time, I attached the co-written Scyld and Rowenna post onto the end of my last Scyld post to keep the timeline in order.

Perhaps, Firefoot, you could add a link to your post so people could click and go?

[Firefoot]

Perhaps, Firefoot, you could add a link to your post so people could click and go?
Post here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=696895&postcount=1378). :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Great job here! And nice post, FF. It's a pity we had to mess with the Scyld&co. - plotlines by the timejump, but hope we can build anew from here :) (Personally for example, all the last posts just before the 'Downs went down, the whole dead body etc. went completely past me, so in that way I am happy to get the chance to look forward to re-engaging with Scyld and all under "normal circumstances" after the jump).

I am back from my short trip now, so expect to post some fill-in posts during the weekend, and also to introduce my new character on the other thread.

[Firefoot]

Just to be clear - we're now starting in F.A. 19? So more of a 4 year jump?

I think I'm the last person on the thread who will argue with that ( ;) ) but want to make sure we're all on the same page.

[Nogrod]

Just to be clear - we're now starting in F.A. 19? So more of a 4 year jump?It looks like that.

It was easier to make the general storyline so that it went over four years rather than five (one reason being that we were already in late autumn year 15 where we left the game so there was not much of that to play anyway for year 15).

So it should be something like May F.A. 19 as we start - and the snow is just receding (well melting away) so much that it is possible for a caravan of aid to come through.

So there would still be considerable amount of snow everywhere (except perhaps the inner yard of the Mead Hall and maybe a path or two to some nearby locations like where people would have tried to gather wood etc. that would have been kept quite clean of snow) but it would be melting quickly...

[Firefoot]

Are we starting on the day the caravan gets there?

[Nogrod]

Are we starting on the day the caravan gets there?It could be a nice spot to start. At least quite a dramatic way of doing it?

What do you others think?

[Firefoot]

That is fine with me - like you said, a nice dramatic start. I will probably put off introducing Leof's sister until a bit later though (I've already written their reunion and I think it would fit better maybe a month or so later?).

One thing I just want to question... it seems a little unlikely to me that Scarburg would get hit so hard by the winter, but the surrounding areas had enough surplus from their harvests that they're able to send aid... Scarburg is only about 50 mi from Edoras, which isn't far when it comes to weather systems. This seems a bit isolated.

Also, doing some research on previous harsh winters, the Long Winter in Rohan lasted November-March with Rohan under snow for five months - the winter described in Nogrod's post sounds like snow cover for seven (October-May), so we're talking about by far the worst winter in Rohan's history.

I don't want to criticize the work you've done, Nogrod, since I really appreciate it, but I just wanted to put in perspective how bad of a winter we're talking about (maybe snow cover from November to March as in the Long Winter just doesn't seem like a very harsh winter to a Finn, lol - actually, it doesn't seem that absurd to me, either...).

An interesting point that seems relevant whatever way we go though, also about the Long Winter: "The melted snow caused great floods with the Entwash becoming a vast fen." Seeing as Scarburg is quite near the Entwash...

(Source. (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Long_Winter))

[Firefoot]

Also been doing some research on hay, and looks like it's a crop that gets harvested two or three times a year, so the horses should be okay, anyway.

[piosenniel]

Just a suggestion, but it might be good if you discussed the new game on its discussion/planning thread, instead of the old Meadhall thread....

Would you like me to move the posts from this thread to the Hard Winters discussion thread - specifically:

from Firefoot's post on 6/4 - #3994
"Just to be clear - we're now starting in F.A. 19? So more of a 4 year jump?

I think I'm the last person on the thread who will argue with that ( ;) ) but want to make sure we're all on the same page."

through Firefoot's post on 6/5 - #3999

"Also been doing some research on hay, and looks like it's a crop that gets harvested two or three times a year, so the horses should be okay, anyway. "