Riddles in the Downs

[Huinesoron]

You're moving the goalposts here.

So is it four coins that make up a quarter?

I'm giving you clearer and clearer hints because you're not getting the answer. I figured that was what you want.

No. It is four coins that make up another coin. Both are coins that Tolkien would have been familiar with, and are explicitly name-dropped in The Lord of the Rings.

hS

[Urwen]

Farthings?

[Urwen]

It could also spell out 'far things'.

[Huinesoron]

Farthings?

Farthings. Four of 'em.

Now put together everything you know.

hS

[Urwen]

Shire also has four farthings. Ruler born is Pippin, as you yourself said. Ruler made is Sam. Ruler over stream is Merry. Which means the answer is Shire.

[Huinesoron]

Shire also has four farthings. Ruler born is Pippin, as you yourself said. Ruler made is Sam. Ruler over stream is Merry. Which means the answer is Shire.

Correct! The Shire is the answer.

Take four coins, add another one or two, - The Shire is made up of four Farthings, plus Buckland and (later) the Westmarch.
A ruler born, a ruler made, a ruler over stream, - The Mayor, Thain, and Master of Buckland, respectively, all posts eventually held by members of the Fellowship. (Frodo was briefly deputy mayor, as well.)
Visit York, Lancaster, take a horse and you - YorkSHIRE, LancaSHIRE, and a SHIRE horse. I also mentioned Gloucester[SHIRE] at least once.
Will find in the end a helper's hopeful dream. - I don't know if Sam dreamed of the Shire specifically, but he certainly longed for it.

Also:

Farthings. Four of 'em.

https://i.imgur.com/dwqOnxZ.png

"And out of the Shire by their talk."

+

Okay, so let's go this way:

https://i.imgur.com/xmXR2eo.png

Too outdated a reference? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNGH-Hev4sw)

hS

[Urwen]

Fun fact: If we exclude Gandalf and Gimli, then the Fellowship consists of rulers.

[Urwen]

Will make one when I get home, and will try to make it super hard.

[Huinesoron]

Fun fact: If we exclude Gandalf and Gimli, then the Fellowship consists of rulers.

Gimli is Lord of the Glittering Caves, right? So it's just Gandalf - who would have been leader of the White Council, if Galadriel had had her way.

Will make one when I get home, and will try to make it super hard.

Please do! :) The challenge is surely the point; otherwise we'd just sit here writing riddles like:

I am a cat,
I say meow,
I'm different from my siblings,
Please tell me how (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Cats_of_Queen_Ber%C3%BAthiel).

And then we would shortly go utterly doolally.

(Of course, if by 'super hard' you mean 'super vague to punish you for making yours tricky', please don't, but I'm sure you wouldn't do that.)

hS

[Urwen]

No, I mean super tricky. But before I make it, I have a question: will you at least try to guess it once it is made?

(Also, I definitely wouldn't get that Beruthiel reference. Definitely not. Because I am a dumb animal who cannot get the obvious.)

[Huinesoron]

No, I mean super tricky. But before I make it, I have a question: will you at least try to guess it once it is made?

(Also, I definitely wouldn't get that Beruthiel reference. Definitely not. Because I am a dumb animal who cannot get the obvious.)

I will be on holiday next week and away from PCs, so please don't get antsy if I don't answer within thirty seconds.

You're right, Beruthiel is a bit obscure. Maybe more like this:

I am short,
Shorter than a dwarf,
I like riddles,
But not dragons that snort...f.

hS

[Urwen]

But not this week?

(Is it Bilbo?)

[Huinesoron]

But not this week?

I mean, it's already the end of Friday. There's not a lot of week left.

hS

[Urwen]

There's Saturday and Sunday too. And the riddle will be up in less than two hours, so that's plenty o'time.

[Urwen]

Enemy or friend?
You get to choose
For in the end
We have nothing to lose

We endured the harsh fall
We endured the winter cold
We endured it all
And we learned that there are things more valuable than gold

Alas, we were not to last
The betrayal from within
They came upon us hard and fast
And brought us to ruin

[Huinesoron]

Hmm. Stanza 2 could be referencing the Noldolante and Helkaraxe, which means someone of Fingolfin or Finarfin's following.

So who in that set were betrayed from within? Not Fiingolfin and Fingon - they died in battle, and it was Maedhros who was betrayed in the Nirnaeth. Not Angrod and Aegnor either, for the same reason. Not Finarfin or Galadriel, who weren't betrayed much at all.

Turgon or Finrod - Gondolin or Nargothrond? My feeling is that Turgon was more enamoured of his treasure, which speaks against him (the gold line), but on the other hand, the betrayal and destruction of Nargothrond weren't all that closely connected.

So I think I have to go with Turgon, or more generally his people. I admit I have no idea what's going on in the first stanza, though.

hS

[Urwen]

No to all. I did say it would be tricky. ;)

And I wouldn't have said 'we' if it was just one person speaking.

Also, there was a typo, fixed it now.

[Urwen]

Don't pay too much attention to the first stanza, as it only describes how this particular group were perceived.

[Huinesoron]

So I've been thinking on and off about this all day. I spent a while on the Rangers of Arnor, who endured the Fall of Arthedain at the hands of the frozen north, but they weren't ever really betrayed.

Someone who was, however, was Barahir's little band of resistance fighters. They outlasted the Fall of Dorthonion, and I'm sure they faced a grim winter in the aftermath. Ultimately, it was Gorlim's betrayal that brought their deaths - and, to go back to the first stanza, they were certainly enemies to most people who knew they existed at all!

hS

[Urwen]

Right direction of thinking, but go a little further in time.....

[Huinesoron]

Right direction of thinking, but go a little further in time.....

Turin's gaggle of murderers, for basically the same reason? The winter could be the Nirnaeth, and I think it was Mim's betrayal that did them in.

hS

[Urwen]

Turin's gaggle of murderers, for basically the same reason? The winter could be the Nirnaeth, and I think it was Mim's betrayal that did them in.

hS


Yes to all except the winter bit. The winter is the literal winter, which they endured prior to finding a new home.

[Urwen]

Your turn.

[Huinesoron]

Your turn.

I know, I know. Been a busy day, but let's see:

West of the mountains, East of the sea,
You left, and left our fate to me.
East of the mountains, West of the sea,
They leave my home - and head to thee.

hS

[Urwen]

My first thought is Finwe and Elwe.

[Huinesoron]

My first thought is Finwe and Elwe.

Elwe is one of them, Finwe is not.

hS

[Urwen]

West of the mountains, east of the sea: Beleriand
East of the mountains, west of the sea: Middle Earth


So, the speaker lived in both. That lowers the number of candidates


Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, Celebrian, Gil-Galad, and possibly Glorfindel and Maglor as well.

[Urwen]

Elwe and Olwe, then? The Elves are leaving Beleriand and going to Aman, where Olwe is.


It could also be Elwe and Finarfin or Elwe and Melian, for the same reason.

[Huinesoron]

Elwe and Olwe, then? The Elves are leaving Beleriand and going to Aman, where Olwe is.


It could also be Elwe and Finarfin or Elwe and Melian, for the same reason.

Pretty much. Olwe is speaking to Elwe, who vanished in Beleriand - and to who, much later, Olwe sent the Noldor (well, 'sent') ftom Alqualonde, which stands east of the Pelori, and west of the Sea.

Back to you, and no, I don't think I'll have much opportunity to answer it.

hS

[Urwen]

Famous they were
But they weren't the first
For ere they met
There was us

Son of the second
Daughter of the first
Second of the third
'tween us, he was the first to die

[Urwen]

Bumpey bump?

[Morsul the Dark]

Just to get the ball rolling;

Bergen and Luthien talking about Aragorn and Arwen
Two Man/elf relationships one more famous but not the first.

[Urwen]

Beren and Luthien are involved, but the answer aren't A and A.

[Urwen]

Bump again, please.

Hint: the answers do share the initial A, but they're not from the third age.

[Huinesoron]

An'?

Aegnor, son of the Noldor, Second Tribe of the Caliquendi, fell in love with
Andreth, daughter of the First House of the Edain, House Beor,
Something something, don't get this line,
And he died in the Bragollach before she died (presumably of old age, though possibly in the Fall of Dorthinion).

Speaking of Andreth's great-nephew Beren, and Aegnor's first cousin (once removed) Luthien.

hS

[Urwen]

The third like means he is the second son of the third house of Noldor, but I forgot Orodreth exists.

[Huinesoron]

The third like means he is the second son of the third house of Noldor, but I forgot Orodreth exists.

Angrod, I think. At least I've always remembered them as 'Angrod and Aegnor'. Orodreth may or may not be younger than both of them.

Will try to come up with something.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Born to the one who went to the water,
Held by the one who returned from beyond,
Left by the one who sought somewhere hotter,
Claimed by the one who for ages had longed,
Lost to the ones who took what they di'n't oughta,
Given to the one who truly belonged.

And thence to the ones who followed the daughter:
The namesake, the home-bound, the hill-dweller strong.

(Edited to complete the set.)

hS

[Urwen]

The third line implies Maedhros. The fourth line implies Beren and Luthien. The first line implies Earendil. They each were parents/ancestors to Elrond and Elros.

[Huinesoron]

The third line implies Maedhros. The fourth line implies Beren and Luthien. The first line implies Earendil. They each were parents/ancestors to Elrond and Elros.

I think you're stretching a lot with the Beren and Luthien link, but regardless, this is nowhere near the right answer I'm afraid.

hS

[Huinesoron]

The riddle is comprehensive for the entire time period covered in the books, mentioning every relevant person.

The 'ones' in line 5 includes three individuals.

hS

[Urwen]

Line 3 = Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir?


Or alternatively, Phary, Castamir and Wulf, who took the throne that wasn't theirs by rights of succession.

[Huinesoron]

Line 3 = Celegorm, Curufin and Caranthir?

Or alternatively, Phary, Castamir and Wulf, who took the throne that wasn't theirs by rights of succession.

The riddle is in chronological order.

In fact, I've just discovered I can add two more lines to the end:

Born to the one who went to the water,
Held by the one who returned from beyond,
Left by the one who sought somewhere hotter,
Claimed by the one who for ages had longed,
Lost to the ones who took what they di'n't oughta,
Given to the one who truly belonged.

And thence to the ones who followed the daughter:
The namesake, the home-bound, the hill-dweller strong.

hS

[Urwen]

So there is someone - the namesake of the daughter - who followed said daughter.


The only real namesakes I could think of are Lalaith/Nen Lalaith and Nimrodel/Nimrodel, and Elanor/Elanor. But in all three, the namesakes are not human, nor could they 'follow' the original.

[Urwen]

So it isn't Phary/Castamir/Wulf either? The ones in line 5?

[Huinesoron]

So there is someone - the namesake of the daughter - who followed said daughter.

Nope. 'The namesake' is not the namesake of 'the daughter', but of another character.

So it isn't Phary/Castamir/Wulf either? The ones in line 5?

It is not; as I said, it's chronological, any any chronology where the fifth step was 'S.A. 3255-T.A. 2758' would be... well, kind of fun, actually, but probably not solid enough for a riddle.

hS

[Urwen]

So this 'daughter' had three followers.

[Urwen]

Knowing you, it has something to do with Sam, so Red Book of Westmarch is the answer.

[Huinesoron]

So this 'daughter' had three followers.

Think about what 'follow' might mean.

Knowing you, it has something to do with Sam, so Red Book of Westmarch is the answer.

I... huh.

Okay, I have no idea how you came to the idea that I throw Sam into everything, but yes, it does have something to do with him. :p Not the Red Book, though.

hS

[Urwen]

Swords of Gondolin, then? As in Glamdring, Orcrist, Sting, and twin blades wielded by Merry and Pippin? (And possibly Anguirel too, given the 'hotter' line)

[Huinesoron]

Swords of Gondolin, then? As in Glamdring, Orcrist, Sting, and twin blades wielded by Merry and Pippin? (And possibly Anguirel too, given the 'hotter' line)

I quite like that, but no, and not really close. The answer is in the singular.

hS

[Urwen]

This is tough, and I like tough riddles.

[Urwen]

Follow could mean they came after her as rulers/something else

[Urwen]

I have an idea, and reasoning which is sound for the most part, except that this thing isn't known to have passed over to any hobbit (except maybe Elanor)

[Huinesoron]

This is tough, and I like tough riddles.

Good! :) Sadly I didn't really construct it in a way that you can pick away at it; if you get one of the lines, I think the whole thing will immediately follow. I'll try to work on that next time.

Follow could mean they came after her as rulers/something else

It does mean something along those lines, particularly the 'came after' part.

I have an idea, and reasoning which is sound for the most part, except that this thing isn't known to have passed over to any hobbit (except maybe Elanor)

By that description I know that your idea is wrong, but I'm interested in hearing it all the same. It might include something that points in the right direction.

hS

[Urwen]

All right. The ring of Barahir. It started with Finrod, who went to the water, then Barahir, then the Orcs, who took it from him along with his hand, then Beren reclaimed it, then it got passed onto Aragorn a long time after that, who passed it to Arwen, who passed it down to her sons/descendants, who thus followed her as the next people in line.

[Urwen]

I am assuming that the 'daughter' isn't just some random female, but rather that her name incorporates the word 'daughter' in it.

[Huinesoron]

All right. The ring of Barahir. It started with Finrod, who went to the water, then Barahir, then the Orcs, who took it from him along with his hand, then Beren reclaimed it, then it got passed onto Aragorn a long time after that, who passed it to Arwen, who passed it down to her sons/descendants, who thus followed her as the next people in line.

Interesting! But we do know the names of a whole bunch of people between Beren and Aragorn, including the entire line of the Kings of Arnor; plus there's a bunch of unnamed Lords of Andunie in there. So that wouldn't be a complete list, which (after adding the last lines) this is, down to the end of the books.

I am assuming that the 'daughter' isn't just some random female, but rather that her name incorporates the word 'daughter' in it.

I mean, she's not just random, but she's not etymologically a daughter. She's also, notably, not any of the 'one's - she's just a convenient way to mark the final trio.

hS

[Urwen]

This riddle throws me off.

[Urwen]

Beren, Finrod and Glorfindel are the only known people who returned from beyond.....

[Urwen]

Hill-dweller: Sam
Home-Bound: Frodo

[Urwen]

Now, the most likely candidate is Beren, but what did Beren have that came to be in Hobbit possession...

[Galadriel55]

Beren, Finrod and Glorfindel are the only known people who returned from beyond.....

My first thought of returning from Beyond was of Gandalf. Not sure how to apply it, but maybe you'll have more luck. And maybe it's none of the above.

[Galadriel55]

Certain lines sound like the One Ring to me, the main prompt being the thought about Gandalf, but it doesn't fit. Line 1 would be Isildur in Anduin, 2 is Gandalf who only holds it briefly, 3 is Bilbo with a stretch, 4 Frodo with a bigger stretch, but then it falls appart. Who didn't oughta - Deagol and Smeagol? Boromir? And anywaus, it's not chronologically accurate.


Now Urwen's posts about Sam and Elanor did give me an idea about the last lines: Elanor, Sam's daughter, was followed by a bunch more children with no shortage of namesakes. Though "hilldweller strong" reminds me more of Samwise the Strong himself. And that makes me think of the Shire. Or - hang on, no, it's BAG-END!

1. Not sure. Don't know what connection Bungo had with water. Unless it's just a reference to the Water?
2. Held by Bilbo who came back to the great disappointment of his relatives.
3. Left by Frodo seeking Mount Doom.
4. Claimed by the notorious Mrs. SB!
5. Ruffians? SBs? Saruman and Wormtongue? Ruffians would be my bet.
6. Sam? Whose place, unlike Frodo's, is in the Shire?
7-8: not sure of the exact people, but daughter might be Elanor and the followers either her siblings or her children. Probably siblings.

Well, how's that?

[Huinesoron]

Now Urwen's posts about Sam and Elanor did give me an idea about the last lines: Elanor, Sam's daughter, was followed by a bunch more children with no shortage of namesakes. Though "hilldweller strong" reminds me more of Samwise the Strong himself. And that makes me think of the Shire. Or - hang on, no, it's BAG-END!

1. Not sure. Don't know what connection Bungo had with water. Unless it's just a reference to the Water?
2. Held by Bilbo who came back to the great disappointment of his relatives.
3. Left by Frodo seeking Mount Doom.
4. Claimed by the notorious Mrs. SB!
5. Ruffians? SBs? Saruman and Wormtongue? Ruffians would be my bet.
6. Sam? Whose place, unlike Frodo's, is in the Shire?
7-8: not sure of the exact people, but daughter might be Elanor and the followers either her siblings or her children. Probably siblings.

Well, how's that?

Spot on! Let's take a look:

1. Ummm... I got my 'parents of masters of Bag-End' muddled up and wound up referencing Drogo in place of Bungo, didn't I? Oops!
2-4. Exactly.
5. After Lobelia was arrested, Bag-End was held in succession by Lotho, and Saruman & Wormtongue.
6. Sam indeed.
7&8. Per the Gateway, Elanor (the daughter) moved away, so Bag-End passed to Frodo Gardner (namesake of Frodo Baggins). He presumably passed it to his son Holfast ('hole-dweller', and he to his son Harding ('strong one') of the Hill. Harding's death in S.R 1606 is the latest non-New Shadow event recorded by Tolkien.

Over to you, and sorry for mixing up line 1! I really need to check these things...

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. Ummm... I got my 'parents of masters of Bag-End' muddled up and wound up referencing Drogo in place of Bungo, didn't I? Oops!

Hey, no worries! Actually my first thought was "of course it's Drogo, that's obvious!", and only after some fact-checking it occurred to me that Drogo didn't have much to do with Bag End. I thought it was my lack of knowledge about Bungo Baggins that failed to supply the right bit of history. But you're certainly not the only one to confuse the masters' parents!

For what it's worth, I really liked this riddle. It's very descriptive - once I got to the answer I knew it had to be right - but cryptic enough that it took work to get to; very thorough history from start to finish; and poetic to boot. Interesting subject matter too. And referencing quite a bit of history and personages. Me gusta. :)

Here is my much humbler contribution:



Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise,
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river.
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise.
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice.


Happy riddling!

[Urwen]

I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.

These two lines seem to indicate Erendis.

[Morsul the Dark]

I’m zeroing in on the Masters advice bit which of course conjures up Bombadil.

A barrow wight fits parts

Old man willow others

[Galadriel55]

None of the above.

I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.

These two lines seem to indicate Erendis.

Keep in mind that it's YOUR paradise, not just MY home. I would think Aldarion's paradise was on his ship, the opposite of Erendis' home.

[Urwen]

So it is someone/something that can't leave their home or they'd die.

[Urwen]

Here is a novel idea, multiple people and two locations are involved.


Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise, - This is Gondolin
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise - "....then let her stay; let the bird return to her cage, where she'll wilt as she has wilted before....."
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river - Gondolin again
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise. - via poisonous sharp shaft
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice. - "Return to your dwelling, for my heart warns me that if you follow those who love you no longer, you'll never return there again."

[Galadriel55]

So it is someone/something that can't leave their home or they'd die.

That's for you to figure out. :p

[Galadriel55]

Here is a novel idea, multiple people and two locations are involved.


Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise, - This is Gondolin
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise - "....then let her stay; let the bird return to her cage, where she'll wilt as she has wilted before....."
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river - Gondolin again
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise. - via poisonous sharp shaft
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice. - "Return to your dwelling, for my heart warns me that if you follow those who love you no longer, you'll never return there again."

Erm... so what is your answer? Who is the speaker? Who is spoken to?

[Urwen]

I dunno. Some parts read Eol to Aredhel, some parts read Aredhel to Eol.

[Urwen]

And the 'master' is either Curufin or Turgon.

[Galadriel55]

Nope to all.

Eta: in case mt last post was ambiguous - Gondolin, whatever role you had in mind for it, is not the answer.

[Urwen]

So is it an object? A person? First age? Second age? Third age?

[Galadriel55]

So is it an object? A person? First age? Second age? Third age?

Should I give you the answer while I'm at it? This is the Riddles thread, not 20 Questions. The point is for you to figure it out. I will respond to guesses and thoughts/ideas, and I will give hints related to those, but I will not be giving you straight information. Otherwise what's the point of the game?

If you're finding yourself stuck, I would recommend taking a look at the first stanza. Its clues are more specific than the latter two and are more likely to pinpoint the answer.

[Morsul the Dark]

Hey, no worries! Actually my first thought was "of course it's Drogo, that's obvious!", and only after some fact-checking it occurred to me that Drogo didn't have much to do with Bag End. I thought it was my lack of knowledge about Bungo Baggins that failed to supply the right bit of history. But you're certainly not the only one to confuse the masters' parents!

For what it's worth, I really liked this riddle. It's very descriptive - once I got to the answer I knew it had to be right - but cryptic enough that it took work to get to; very thorough history from start to finish; and poetic to boot. Interesting subject matter too. And referencing quite a bit of history and personages. Me gusta. :)

Here is my much humbler contribution:



Windless, yet animate,
With air of demise,
I'll wilt if I leave
My home, your paradise.
Gleaming and beautiful,
All polished silver -
I am the hope
That brings you to the river.
But temper desire:
I'll be your demise.
Once caught, you'll reject me.
Take the master's advice.


Happy riddling!

I’ll make My official answer the Mirror Of Galadriel. Animate you see images obviously without breath. Home in Lothlorien which of course seems like paradise. All polished silver and gleaming. Could be a more straight clue describing a mirror. It definitely offers hope and temptations but also darkness and fears. Sam and Frodo reject what they see. The master’s advice? Galadriel does warn them of the dangers and be careful with the mirror.

[Galadriel55]

I’ll make My official answer the Mirror Of Galadriel. Animate you see images obviously without breath. Home in Lothlorien which of course seems like paradise. All polished silver and gleaming. Could be a more straight clue describing a mirror. It definitely offers hope and temptations but also darkness and fears. Sam and Frodo reject what they see. The master’s advice? Galadriel does warn them of the dangers and be careful with the mirror.

That's pretty good logic, actually. Not the answer, though. The answer fits the clues in a much more specific way.

[Huinesoron]

Haaaaaang on a minute:

Windless, yet animate, - alive without breath
With air of demise, - as cold as death
I'll wilt if I leave - drowns on dry land
My home, your paradise. - stream and pool / is nice and cool

Gleaming and beautiful, - so sleek, so fair!
All polished silver - - clad in mail, never clinking
I am the hope - what a joy to meet
That brings you to the river. - we only wish / to catch a fish

But temper desire: - "Come, Sméagol"
I'll be your demise. - "Men will kill you, if they find you here."
Once caught, you'll reject me. - "Don't want fish."
Take the master's advice. - "Come!"

"Ugh!" he said, "it is cold and clammy!" — and so he guessed. "Fish! fish!" he cried. "It is fish!"

hS

[Galadriel55]

Haaaaaang on a minute:

Windless, yet animate, - alive without breath
With air of demise, - as cold as death
I'll wilt if I leave - drowns on dry land
My home, your paradise. - stream and pool / is nice and cool

Gleaming and beautiful, - so sleek, so fair!
All polished silver - - clad in mail, never clinking
I am the hope - what a joy to meet
That brings you to the river. - we only wish / to catch a fish

But temper desire: - "Come, Sméagol"
I'll be your demise. - "Men will kill you, if they find you here."
Once caught, you'll reject me. - "Don't want fish."
Take the master's advice. - "Come!"

"Ugh!" he said, "it is cold and clammy!" — and so he guessed. "Fish! fish!" he cried. "It is fish!"

hS

And so it is, with a perfect explanation! Back to you. :)

[Huinesoron]

You know me not:
As the others you deem me,
And like them am I.
Yet other I am,
And before you I stand,
And by the sword in my hand,
You know me now.

You know me not:
As my kinsman you deem me,
And still now am I.
Yet living I am,
And before me you stand,
And with silver in hand,
You know me now.

You know me not:
As yourself you deem me,
And like you am I.
Yet restless I am,
And before you I stand,
And by the touch of my hand,
You know me now.

One speaker, three people addressed.

hS

[Urwen]

First stanza sounds like Turin to Dorlas, but the second one sounds like Eol to Turgon.....


And Eol and Turin have one thing in common: Anglachel. Turin was named after his black sword as well.

[Huinesoron]

First stanza sounds like Turin to Dorlas, but the second one sounds like Eol to Turgon.....

And Eol and Turin have one thing in common: Anglachel. Turin was named after his black sword as well.

That's a pretty good linking of themes, but not right I'm afraid.

Keep going! (I promise this one doesn't have a huge error - I made particularly sure to check stanza 2 to see who the addressee was.)

hS

[Urwen]

Still sounds like Turin/Eol......

[Urwen]

But based on your response, I am somewhat close.

[Urwen]

It could be Aragorn addressing Faramir, Eowyn and Ioreth.

[Huinesoron]

It could be Aragorn addressing Faramir, Eowyn and Ioreth.

This is very close, and in fact names at least one correct person, though not in the correc place.

hS

[Urwen]

Maybe Eowyn? Though this only provides context for the first stanza.....

[Huinesoron]

Maybe Eowyn? Though this only provides context for the first stanza.....

Eowyn is the speaker; now to whom is she speaking? (It may also help you to consider 'when' - these are all specific book moments. And no, she doesn't actually speak in all of them.)

hS

[Urwen]

Well, the first stanza is her speaking to Witch King, who mistook her for a man, which she is - as in, she is of the race of Men.

The second stanza could be her talking to Imrahil, who detected that she is alive when no one else could.

And the third stanza is her talking to Faramir.

[Huinesoron]

Well, the first stanza is her speaking to Witch King, who mistook her for a man, which she is - as in, she is of the race of Men.

The second stanza could be her talking to Imrahil, who detected that she is alive when no one else could.

And the third stanza is her talking to Faramir.

Spot on! Imrahil specifically checked she was alive by catching her breath on his vambrace, hence the 'silver' line.

Over to you.

hS

[Urwen]

I liked that one. Here is a semi-hard one from me.

You are of the second house
I am your ally and your friend
And even when I am away
By your side I still would stand

When the soldiers of evil come
And try to bring forth the flame
The gift I gave thee shall awaken
To beat them at their own game

But any power comes with a cost
And so it has happened this time
For even though no life was lost
The price paid hurts all the same.

(Fair warning, the speaker is a bit obscure ^_^)

[Huinesoron]

Okay, first thought is Beleg to Turin, but that's definitely wrong, because 'no life was lost'. With that out of the way...

'Second House' could mean several things:

-Second House of the Edain, ie the Haladin. That would probably put us in the Turin story.
-Second tribe of the Eldar, ie the Noldor. The speaker would probably be a Sinda.
-Secondborn, implying that the speaker is an Elf.

'The gift I gave thee' sounds like a weapon. The context suggests it involves fire; how many flaming swords are there? Mm... yeah, it's Anglachel and Anguirel, isn't it? But the only time either of them was given as a gift was by Thingol to Beleg, and Beleg isn't of the Second House of anything.

Life wasn't lost, but a price was paid - for the gift? For the power? For friendship? What could the price be?

Circling back to the first point - could we be in the Wanderings of Hurin? That certainly meets the 'obscure' standard... except it would be the recipient who was obscure. Hurin himself is anything but.

Hmm... jumping tracks completely, could this be Cirdan to Gandalf?

You are of the second house - Gandalf is of the Maiar, the lesser 'house' of the Ainur
I am your ally and your friend - Cirdan befriends Gandalf pretty much instantly.
And even when I am away
By your side I still would stand - See below.

When the soldiers of evil come
And try to bring forth the flame - 'A balrog! A balrog is come!'
The gift I gave thee shall awaken - Narya, the Ring of Fire, given by Cirdan to Gandalf.
To beat them at their own game - Gandalf makes excellent use of fire, potentially charged by his Ring.

But any power comes with a cost
And so it has happened this time
For even though no life was lost
The price paid hurts all the same. - 'I have written Gandalf is here in signs that all can read from Rivendell to the mouths of Anduin'. Gandalf's use of fire always ran the risk of identifying him. Moreover, his confrontation with the Balrog, while not losing his life, still took him from the Fellowship at a critical time.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Urwen]

Hint: the answer to this one is found within the book of incomplete stories, as written by Chris Tolkien. ;)

[Huinesoron]

Unfinished Tales?

Wait - are we in Cirion and Eorl here? Gondor summoned the Rohirrim through a combination of the Red Arrow and the beacons, which were lit by fire, so that could explain the second stanza. And Gondor gave up a huge chunk of land to the Rohirrim, which could be the price of the third.

As for the 'Second House' business... it looks like Cirion is actually in the second line of the House of the Stewards: the ninth steward died without a son, so the stewardship passed to his sister's line.

So I'm thinking Eorl to Cirion, upon Halifirien.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope, it's more obscure than that. If t helps, I thought of doing Eorl/Cirion one, but then I remembered those two.

[Huinesoron]

Hang on... maybe it was the Haladin after all.

Are we in 'The Faithful Stone', kicking Orcs out of Brethil with the Drúadan watch-stone, but getting our feet burnt putting out the fire?

Are we, therefore, Aghan of the Drughu, speaking to Barach the woodsman of the Haladin?

hS

[Urwen]

Hang on... maybe it was the Haladin after all.

Are we in 'The Faithful Stone', kicking Orcs out of Brethil with the Drúadan watch-stone, but getting our feet burnt putting out the fire?

Are we, therefore, Aghan of the Drughu, speaking to Barach the woodsman of the Haladin?

hS

I knew you had it in you.

It was one of the tales I liked best.

[Huinesoron]

Perhaps something quick?

Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too.
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you.

hS

[Urwen]

Is there something in Tolkien lore which steals memories?

[Huinesoron]

Is there something in Tolkien lore which steals memories?

Yes.

I said take.

hS

[Urwen]

Simbelmyne aka Evermind aka Eternal Memory?

[Huinesoron]

Simbelmyne aka Evermind aka Eternal Memory?

Nope. I think Evermind is white.

hS

[Urwen]

Mirror of Galadriel?

[Huinesoron]

Mirror of Galadriel?

No.

Try connecting your answers to the whole riddle; just making guesses isn't going to get you any hints.

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

A bit outside the box here but it reminds me of Gollum’s time riddle. It could be the Sun the first half is obvious the second is more metaphorical the passage of time measured in sunrises and sunsets

[Huinesoron]

A bit outside the box here but it reminds me of Gollum’s time riddle. It could be the Sun the first half is obvious the second is more metaphorical the passage of time measured in sunrises and sunsets

You're right that there's a certain amount of metaphor involved, but this is not the right answer.

The second line is making a series of specific references, not just listing random colours.

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

So I latched onto “Deck” and looked into ships.

The Alcarondas is a ship with Golden Masts (though I admit I can’t find the other colors)

It’s the ship that anchored at Valar when the last king of Númenor challenged them.

Taking memories if metaphorical could mean the sinking of Númenor.

[Huinesoron]

Reposting for the new page:

Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too.
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you.

So I latched onto “Deck” and looked into ships.

The Alcarondas is a ship with Golden Masts (though I admit I can’t find the other colors)

It’s the ship that anchored at Valar when the last king of Númenor challenged them.

Taking memories if metaphorical could mean the sinking of Númenor.

In contrast to the colours, the first line is pretty much just there to fill space and make an observation about the colours.

I don't think it's giving too much away to say that the answer is a class of people, places, or things, and the colours are three specific examples.

hS

[Urwen]

Oh, I think I may have it.


It's dragons.




Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too - Glaurung is gold; Smaug is red
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you. - Glaurung, as he did with Nienor

[Huinesoron]

Oh, I think I may have it.

It's dragons.

Deck me out in fiery colours:
Gold and red and yellow too - Glaurung is gold; Smaug is red
Feed me well with times and places;
Your memories I'll take from you. - Glaurung, as he did with Nienor

It is not dragons; dragons were a red (or gold, but probably not yellow) herring that I've been trying so hard not to rule out until someone said it. So thank you!

To the best of my knowledge, Glaurung is the only instance of actual memory theft in Tolkien. So the question becomes: how can you 'take' someone's memories without taking them away?

hS

[Urwen]

Via a Palantir or Mirror of Galadriel?

Sorry, but these are only instances I can think of.

Of course, there is Pensieve, but it's not Tolkien thing.

[Huinesoron]

Via a Palantir or Mirror of Galadriel?

Sorry, but these are only instances I can think of.

Of course, there is Pensieve, but it's not Tolkien thing.

Nope (and I'm not sure either of those do that?).

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

Is it books?

The Red Book Of Westmarch
The Golden Book Of the Eldar
The Yellow Book I can’t find a specific one.

But it fits the rest pretty well and you said slightly metaphorical so that would work too.

[Huinesoron]

Is it books?

It is!

The Red Book Of Westmarch
The Golden Book Of the Eldar
The Yellow Book I can’t find a specific one.

The Golden Book of Tavrobel was written by Eriol/Aelfwine in the 'ending' of the Book of Lost Tales; and yes, apparently there was a Golden Book of the Eldar too, occupying a similar place in a later version of the story. And Yellowskin was apparently the name of the Took family diary, which was over 900 years old at the time of the War of the Ring.

But it fits the rest pretty well and you said slightly metaphorical so that would work too.

The idea being that books in Middle-earth were mostly historical, being filled with dates and locations - and also with the memories of the writer, particularly in the Red Book.

Over to you!

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

An innocent’s home I knock
My weapon is a rock
At the break of night
Before the final fight
I watch the thief sneak
I see the lizard weak

[Urwen]

No, wait.

[Urwen]

The thief is Bilbo and the lizard is Smaug. This would make the speaker Roac, who sounds like 'rock'.

[Morsul the Dark]

You’re wrong but only by a hair. Roac doesn’t knock.

[Urwen]

The thrush?

An innocent’s home I knock
My weapon is a rock - it breaks the snail's shell by knocking it against the rock
At the break of night
Before the final fight
I watch the thief sneak
I see the lizard weak - obvious

[Morsul the Dark]

I debated including the last two lines might’ve made it too easy. That’s ok though. Absolutely correct :)

[Urwen]

Will post a riddle in a few hours.

[Urwen]

This was all I could think of.


Come, let's traverse a hidden path
Where brambles and trees grow near the strand
You'll give me your oath
And I'll give you your land


(It's far easier than my previous one)

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Huinesoron]

Could be Thingol and Haleth, with the first couple of lines referring either to Brethil or to Nan Dungortheb; the latter two would be the part where the Haladin guard the crossings in exchange for the right to live in Brethil.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope. You've already said the answer recently. Because I'm cheeky like that. If you need a hint, you're looking at it.

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Morsul the Dark]

Tuor

[Huinesoron]

Or Eol to Aredhel.

Actually there's a whole bunch of 'they met in a forest and wound up getting married' stories in Tolkien...

hS

[Urwen]

No to both.


Those two didn't gain love, bur rather friendship.

[Morsul the Dark]

Unfinished Tales?

Wait - are we in Cirion and Eorl here? Gondor summoned the Rohirrim through a combination of the Red Arrow and the beacons, which were lit by fire, so that could explain the second stanza. And Gondor gave up a huge chunk of land to the Rohirrim, which could be the price of the third.

As for the 'Second House' business... it looks like Cirion is actually in the second line of the House of the Stewards: the ninth steward died without a son, so the stewardship passed to his sister's line.

So I'm thinking Eorl to Cirion, upon Halifirien.

hS

If this is correct I don’t want it I’m quoting it specifically because it’s not my thinking but it fits

[Urwen]

That's it. Good job.

[Huinesoron]

Oh yeah I suppose that does fit. :D

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

@Huin the answer is definitely yours I just quoted it. I think you should get the thread if you don’t want it I can post one later.

[Huinesoron]

@Huin the answer is definitely yours I just quoted it. I think you should get the thread if you don’t want it I can post one later.

Oh, um... I suppose? Here we go then:

Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,
Blue for the mirror that stands all alone.
Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour,
Yellow the crown of the lord of my own.
Orange the standard of he who rules over,
Red for the fire that burns to the bone.

One answer.

hS

[Urwen]

Aragorn? Green is Elessar.

[Huinesoron]

Aragorn? Green is Elessar.

Not Aragorn. (Saying yes or no to the Elessar would narrow the field too much, so I'll refrain.)

hS

[Urwen]

I'll take that as a yes.

Galadriel? Celebrimbor designed the original stone as a gift for her.

[Huinesoron]

I'll take that as a yes.

Galadriel? Celebrimbor designed the original stone as a gift for her.

You shouldn't take it as either a yes or no; it's an explicit abstention.

Not Galadriel - nor 'Brim either.

Unrelatedly, I quite like the idea that the Elessar Galadriel gave Aragorn came from Celebrimbor. It makes her whole gift-giving thing a massive insult at Feanor - she gives the dwarf what she refused him, she gives the Hobbit the light of the things he refused to give anyone, and she gives the Man a present she got from his grandson. (Come to think of it, I doubt Feanor would be happy with her giving out lembas to all and sundry, either.)

hS

[Urwen]

I am still taking it as a yes, because Elessar is the only green stone in existence.

And I like this interpretation of them unfriends.

[Urwen]

Lothlorien, maybe?


Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,
Blue for the mirror that stands all alone. - Mirror of Galadriel
Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour, - Elessar
Yellow the crown of the lord of my own. - Celeborn's crown, obviously
Orange the standard of he who rules over, - Sauron, the master of all three rings
Red for the fire that burns to the bone. - Mount doom

[Huinesoron]

Lothlorien, maybe?


I'm afraid not - but good try!

Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,

I don't recall any indication that the Mountains of Moria have heather on them.

Blue for the mirror that stands all alone. - Mirror of Galadriel

This would work (but is wrong).

Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour, - Elessar

The Elessar is a green jewel, you are correct on that.

Yellow the crown of the lord of my own. - Celeborn's crown, obviously

Does he wear one? It's Galadriel's name that refers to a crown (ie, her hair), but she wouldn't be a lord.

Orange the standard of he who rules over, - Sauron, the master of all three rings

The standard of Sauron is black blazoned with a red eye. It has no orange.

Red for the fire that burns to the bone. - Mount doom

Orodruin is a loooong way from Lorien.

hS

[Urwen]

The only orange standard is that of the Glorfindel of Gondolin, who doesn't rule over anything.

[Urwen]

Wait, I may have the answer. Thanks for the hint.

[Urwen]

Tarn Aeluin?

Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,
Blue for the mirror that stands all alone. - the lake of Tarn Aeluin is filled with mirror-like water, and surrounded by the mountains where heather grows
Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour, - Elessar, from which Aragorn, the descendant of Barahir, took his moniker
Yellow the crown of the lord of my own. - Barahir could be the 'lord' of Tarn
Orange the standard of he who rules over, - I can't find Barahir's standard, but I assume it to be orange
Red for the fire that burns to the bone. - A reference to Dagor Bragollach, and the rivers of lava Morgoth sent forth

[Huinesoron]

The only orange standard is that of the Glorfindel of Gondolin, who doesn't rule over anything.

It's not Glorfindel. Orange is a tricky colour to find, so just some orange would be acceptable.

Wait, I may have the answer. Thanks for the hint.

We shall see. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Look above.

[Huinesoron]

Tarn Aeluin?

Purple the heather that grows on the mountains,
Blue for the mirror that stands all alone. - the lake of Tarn Aeluin is filled with mirror-like water, and surrounded by the mountains where heather grows
Green for the jewel, the sigil of honour, - Elessar, from which Aragorn, the descendant of Barahir, took his moniker
Yellow the crown of the lord of my own. - Barahir could be the 'lord' of Tarn
Orange the standard of he who rules over, - I can't find Barahir's standard, but I assume it to be orange
Red for the fire that burns to the bone. - A reference to Dagor Bragollach, and the rivers of lava Morgoth sent forth

You're actually inside the correct answer, and you're right on your interpretation of lines 1,2, and 6. :)

It's not the Elessar, though.

hS

[Urwen]

And I found your orange too


http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/8/8a/M%C3%A5ns_Bj%C3%B6rkman_-_B%C3%ABor_device.gif


This is the standard of Beorians, Barahir's people. There is your orange.

[Huinesoron]

Barahir would probably have used Beor's device, which per this page (http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm) does actually contain some orange. But it's not the one I was thinking of.

(Whether the heraldry was in active use in Beleriand, or was created later and projected backwards, is a bit of an open question.)

hS

[Huinesoron]

And I found your orange too


http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/8/8a/M%C3%A5ns_Bj%C3%B6rkman_-_B%C3%ABor_device.gif


This is the standard of Beorians, Barahir's people. There is your orange.

Hah, you beat me to it!

hS

[Urwen]

So Tarn Aeluin is the correct answer.

[Urwen]

Wait, the lord of my own could mean the lord of its lord, ie. Barahir's lord, ie. Finrod, whose standard also contains orange. In which case, the jeewl line could refer to the Ring of Barahir.

[Huinesoron]

So Tarn Aeluin is the correct answer.

No. Tarn Aeluin is inside the correct answer. I thought I said that?

hS

[Huinesoron]

Wait, the lord of my own could mean the lord of its lord, ie. Barahir's lord, ie. Finrod, whose standard also contains orange. In which case, the jeewl line could refer to the Ring of Barahir.

Correct, almost correct, and correct (which is why I didn't say anything to 'the Elessar is the only green stone').

The line of authority goes from Barahir (green) to Finrod (yellow, with his 'crown' of golden hair), to... who?

And, y'know, where is Barahir lord of?

hS

[Urwen]

There is a dark green jewel in the middle of said ring.

[Huinesoron]

There is a dark green jewel in the middle of said ring.

I know. Which isn't the Elessar, and is the green jewel referenced.

Do you know the answer to the riddle yet?

hS

[Urwen]

After Finrod's death, it did go to Orodreth. And Barahir was the lord of Dorthonion.

[Urwen]

Dorthonion then?

[Huinesoron]

After Finrod's death, it did go to Orodreth.

A line of authority goes up. In this case, to Fingolfin, High King of the Noldor and Finrod's direct superior. His standard has orange flames in it.

And Barahir was the lord of Dorthonion.

Yep! DORTHONION, location of Tarn Aeluin, burned down in the Bragollach, is the answer to the riddle.

hS

[Urwen]

Let me have some time to make another one, then.

[Urwen]

I liked yours. Now, for mine own:


Long ago, in lands of old
I came to existence, with hair of gold
The holder of my heart had golden hair too
And our love was pure and true

Long ago, we left the shores
Of a land we called our home
We did in on my behest, disappearing from all the tales
But we helped provide hope in the times yet to come

[Huinesoron]

I liked yours. Now, for mine own:


Long ago, in lands of old
I came to existence, with hair of gold
The holder of my heart had golden hair too
And our love was pure and true

Long ago, we left the shores
Of a land we called our home
We did in on my behest, disappearing from all the tales
But we helped provide hope in the times yet to come

Yesterday I was looking through Juliana Pinho's gallery (https://www.deviantart.com/jubah/gallery/41637682/tolkien), which reminded me of the fact I always forget: that Tuor and Idril were both blondes. So I have to make them my guess. I think it was Tuor who suggested they sail West, so he would be the speaker.

hS

[Urwen]

Yesterday I was looking through Juliana Pinho's gallery (https://www.deviantart.com/jubah/gallery/41637682/tolkien), which reminded me of the fact I always forget: that Tuor and Idril were both blondes. So I have to make them my guess. I think it was Tuor who suggested they sail West, so he would be the speaker.

hS

Exactly right.

[Huinesoron]

Good riddle! The first verse misdirected me to Valinor for a bit before I remembered the pictures.

"Oh my God!" I hear them cry
(or perhaps my ears deceive me):
All the gnomes, I think, and sigh,
Yell "Codswallop!" when they see me.

I am the front that grows on the trees,
The box that makes some wheezy.
Am I for beasts or am I quite sweet?
Not sure - but I'm certainly easy!

One answer, and you proooobably want to focus on the second half.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, the only thing that grows on trees are fruits...

[Huinesoron]

Well, the only thing that grows on trees are fruits...

I'm... pretty sure that's not true.

hS

[Urwen]

And also leaves. Leaves of Lorien?

[Huinesoron]

And also leaves. Leaves of Lorien?

Nope. Just looking at half of one line isn't going to get you anywhere, I'm afraid.

hS

[Urwen]

So I need to solve the box line too?

Let's see....I came across Debain (wheezy) Gnome upon consulting google...

[Urwen]

VirtualBox.

[Urwen]

So Leavirtual or something?

[Urwen]

Noldor are sometimes referred to as 'gnomes'.

[Huinesoron]

Noldor are sometimes referred to as 'gnomes'.

I think this is the first relevant thing you've said. ;)

hS

[Urwen]

Finglas, also known as Leaflock? Locked box could make some people wheezy, especially when they're locked inside of it. :p

[Urwen]

So something that Noldor don't think of as very valuable, that start with lea or leaf?

[Huinesoron]

Finglas, also known as Leaflock? Locked box could make some people wheezy, especially when they're locked inside of it. :p

Nope.

So something that Noldor don't think of as very valuable, that start with lea or leaf?

No and no. Like I said, 'Gnome = Noldo' is the first relevant thing you've said.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, only fruits, leaves and flowers grow on trees.

[Huinesoron]

Well, only fruits, leaves and flowers grow on trees.

Strictly speaking you've left off bark (and a whole bunch of animals if you want to get picky - do squirrels grow on trees?). But yes, the thing that half-line refers to is a type of one of those three things.

Each line of the second half of the riddle, and each couplet of the first half, separately reveals the answer. So you've got six different ways to find it! :D

hS

[Urwen]

Based on your wording, I think that certain capital letters spell the answer.

But in case it's not, does that half-line refer to the half of the name of whatever grows on trees?

[Huinesoron]

Based on your wording, I think that certain capital letters spell the answer.

I... have no idea what I said to make you think that. :eek: No.

But in case it's not, does that half-line refer to the half of the name of whatever grows on trees?

No. Why would it only be half? Oh... I see. No. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Because it says 'Front', as in front half, or first half. Unless you only mean first letter.

[Urwen]

I might be an idiot, but I just can't see what are the lines of the second stanza referring to.....

[Huinesoron]

Because it says 'Front', as in front half, or first half. Unless you only mean first letter.

Yeah, I see; I don't mean any of those things. :)

I might be an idiot, but I just can't see what are the lines of the second stanza referring to.....

Ah, well, let me expla--

Haaaaaang on. >_> You're not going to catch me out that easily.

Two lines of the second stanza are (I guess) cryptic clues; the other two are (I suppose) straight.

hS

[Urwen]

So all of the Noldor yell 'Nonsense' when they see the answer?

[Huinesoron]

So all of the Noldor yell 'Nonsense' when they see the answer?

Nope; the riddle-speaker thinks the Gnomes yell "Codswallop!" and "Oh my God!". But as line 2 establishes, the speaker's hearing might not be the best. :)

hS

[Urwen]

So something which sounds like 'Codswallop'?

'Gods gallop'?

Orome?

[Urwen]

This is supported by third and fourth lines of the second stanza. Hunters hunt beasts, and Noldor (and the rest of the Elves) mistook Orome for the dark hunter that captured their kin, only to find out he is really sweet.

[Huinesoron]

So something which sounds like 'Codswallop'?

Yep!

'Gods gallop'?

Orome?

This is supported by third and fourth lines of the second stanza. Hunters hunt beasts, and Noldor (and the rest of the Elves) mistook Orome for the dark hunter that captured their kin, only to find out he is really sweet.

Nope. :-/ The fact that I said 'Gnomes' is super duper relevant.

Reposting for the new page:

"Oh my God!" I hear them cry
(or perhaps my ears deceive me):
All the gnomes, I think, and sigh,
Yell "Codswallop!" when they see me.

I am the front that grows on the trees,
The box that makes some wheezy.
Am I for beasts or am I quite sweet?
Not sure - but I'm certainly easy!

hS

[Urwen]

In that case, I am drawing a blank.

[Urwen]

I still believe Cod sounds like God, but can't think of anything that sounds like 'swallop'. Unless it's 'Gods wall off', which they did after the downfall of Numenor. But the fact that Noldor are somehow involved removes that possibility. And there is 'Oh my God' line too. Which could be Morgoth.....

Now 'mae' sounds like 'my' and 'o' sounds like 'oh', but that leaves dhrs to sound like 'God', and as hard as I want to, I can't see it.

[Huinesoron]

I still believe Cod sounds like God, but can't think of anything that sounds like 'swallop'. Unless it's 'Gods wall off', which they did after the downfall of Numenor. But the fact that Noldor are somehow involved removes that possibility. And there is 'Oh my God' line too. Which could be Morgoth.....

Now 'mae' sounds like 'my' and 'o' sounds like 'oh', but that leaves dhrs to sound like 'God', and as hard as I want to, I can't see it.

:confused: Why are you acting as if Gnomes speak English? :confused:

[Urwen]

Okay, so I searched some Gnomish and Quenya words, and can't find anything that could sound like 'codswallop'.

[Huinesoron]

Okay, so I searched some Gnomish and Quenya words, and can't find anything that could sound like 'codswallop'.

I mean, I promise there is one? (It's Gnomish, for the record.) But I'd recommend using the second half of the riddle to solve it, and the first half to check. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Words associated with trees: Aigos, Golosbrindi


Golosbrindi does sound a bit like codswallop.


Can't find the words that match the other two lines, as there are not many gnomish words.

[Urwen]

Or maybe 'codwalion', gnomish word for chestnut. Chest could be the box, and nut does grow on trees.

[Huinesoron]

Or maybe 'codwalion', gnomish word for chestnut. Chest could be the box, and nut does grow on trees.

"Oh my God!" I hear them cry
(or perhaps my ears deceive me):

ormagod n. “a (Spanish) chestnut”

All the gnomes, I think, and sigh,
Yell "Codswallop!" when they see me.

codwalion n. “walnut, chestnut”

I am the front that grows on the trees,

Chest - the front part of the torso. Nut - a thing that grows on trees.

The box that makes some wheezy.

Chest - a box. Nut - something that many people are allergic to.

Am I for beasts or am I quite sweet?

Horse chestnut - Aesculus hippocastanum. Sweet chestnut - Castanea sativa. The two 'chestnuts' of the British Isles.

Not sure - but I'm certainly easy!

"This he thought a dreadfully easy chestnut, though he had not asked it in the usual words." ~The Hobbit, J.R.R. Tolkien

The answer is indeed CHESTNUT. Over to you.

hS

(PS: Eldamo (https://eldamo.org/content/language-pages/lang-g.html) gives over 3000 Gnomish words, including seven meaning 'chestnut'.)

[Urwen]

Yeah, I know. Eldamo is how I found it.

[Urwen]

New riddle will be up soon

[Urwen]

Here it is.

I am a bloomer, to earth I am bound
And I grow from the ground
You pass me in the dark, but I'm still around
When I am there, there is plenty of food abound
I might look like an ordinary shrub
But to you and yours I provide a fine grub

[Urwen]

Please, unless you're planning ti do nothing on the forum, then don't come online. Doing so gets some of us excited fir nothing, which is kinda mean.

[Morsul the Dark]

Is it potatoes grows underground hence the darkness but and everything else is describing the potato plant/top

[Urwen]

No.

[Mithalwen]

The special corn used to make lembas?

[Urwen]

No.

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Huinesoron]

Mushrooms don't exactly bloom, so probably not that. 'You pass me in the dark' might imply a specific scene.

hS

[Urwen]

Mushrooms don't exactly bloom, so probably not that. 'You pass me in the dark' might imply a specific scene.

hS

It is not a scene, but rather how this specific character describes it.

[Urwen]

Want a hint?

[Huinesoron]

It is not a scene, but rather how this specific character describes it.

This makes me think of Sam talking to Gollum in Ithilien. Dunno though. Who else talked about food?

hS

[Urwen]

Eh, a certain traitor - not M(a)eglin, though - did.

[Pervinca Took]

The food Mim provided. Which I once called Mim's Taters for a password.

[Urwen]

Indeed.

[Pervinca Took]

Oh dear. I have two passwords ready to go, but I'm crap at making riddles.

Let's see.

Withering with our fellows,
An airborne riposte,
And in a request both impertinent and half-baked?
What are we?

[Huinesoron]

Withering with our fellows,
An airborne riposte,
And in a request both impertinent and half-baked?
What are we?

I'm thinking some sort of insult. 'Impertinent' sounds like the sort of thing Gandalf would call Pippin, but I can't actually find it in the text. Half-baked also sounds like a Pippin thing.

Hang on, jumping tracks as completely as possible... the Silmarils are capable of burning and withering flesh, are used as an airborne weapon by Earendil, and were requested by Thingol in the most impertinent, half-baked idea he ever had.

So I shall guess the Silmarils, and hang the consequences! ^_^

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Sorry, didn't see your reply.

Good try! Not the Silmarils, though.

[Huinesoron]

So, Tolkien famously used 'impertinent' to describe Nazi Germany's question regarding his ancestry:

I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.

He was even more blunt to Stanley Unwin:

Do I suffer this impertinence because of the possession of a German name, or do their lunatic laws require a certificate of arisch origin from all persons of all countries?

"Impertinent and half-baked" indeed.

I'm not sure if this helps, though: what would be in the request, other than racism, which doesn't really seem to fit the riddle?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Nope.

The answer is a physical thing. A common noun (in the plural), not an abstract.

Big Clue: 'half-baked' is literal. Not the metaphorical sense of 'gormless.'

[Huinesoron]

... surely it can't be Mim's Taters again? Potatoes and allied roots do wither, and I can certainly imagine them both being thrown at someone's head and being impertinently requested. Also baked.

Actually, throwing things at people's heads sounds more like Gollum; does he do that?

hS

[Mithalwen]

I could only think of Sam buzzing an apple at Bill Fernie but that was a good apple.

[Pervinca Took]

Withering with our fellows,
An airborne riposte,
And in a request both impertinent and half-baked?
What are we?

I didn't say they weren't good. ;)

The answer is, indeed, APPLES.

The AIRBORNE RIPOSTE is, as Mithalwen guessed, the one Sam throws at Bill Ferny.

Can you work out where the apples in the other two lines occur?

[Mithalwen]

The wrinkled store apples Pippin eats with Beregond?

[Pervinca Took]

The wrinkled store apples Pippin eats with Beregond?

Correct. Does it say wrinkled rather than withered? Those are the ones I meant, anyway.

Now, for the other line, I stretch the possible meaning of 'half-baked' a bit ... can you think, though, where an impertinent request concerning apples might have been made?

[Galadriel55]

Ohhh, good one! The Dwarves impertinently asked Bilbo for apple pie (tart? cake? other baked good?) among other foodstries. But knowing Bilbo's cooking to be very high quality, not sure why it would be half-baked. :)

[Pervinca Took]

Correct again. One of the dwarves asks for raspberry jam and apple tart. I stretched 'half-baked' because a tart has pastry only around the edge and at the bottom (sort of half as much as a pie has, which has a pastry top as well).

Mith guessed it was apples and two of the three examples, so I guess it's over to her?

[Galadriel55]

Mith guessed it was apples and two of the three examples, so I guess it's over to her?

Definitely so. :)

[Mithalwen]

Since I somehow managed to solve the password at the same time, I have done a quick and easy (at least from my POV) old school riddle for you to chew over while I set that:

My first is in battle but not in fight
My second in strength but not in might
My third is in wasp but not in bees
My fourth not in wood but trees
My last is in night but not in day
My all is that I am just what I say!

[Urwen]

Got it. Arwen.


B A L E
S R E N
W A P
T R E E S
N I G H T

[Mithalwen]

Correct. Arwen means noble woman which is what she is... right back to trying to do a password which might take longer to solve than set.

[Urwen]

A short and easy one.....or is it? :p

He is a thief
Who stole this from me
And in the end,
Death was my fate, you see

[Pervinca Took]

Bilbo and Smaug and the stolen cup?

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Urwen]

Bump

[Urwen]

It's free for the taking, yet no one wants to.....

I give you a day more before I continue this, and fair warning, my shall be related to you-know-who in some manner (please don't make a Voldemort pun), so if you want to prevent my obseeesiiiveee ways, better step up now while you still have the chance.:smokin:

[Galadriel55]

Bilbo and Gollum? Bilbo and the Troll? Morgoth and Feanor or Finwe? Beren and Morgoth?

The riddle doesn't have that many clues pointing to specific instances. There were so many people who stole things from other people who dies sometime after - not to mention the more liberal interpretation where one or both elements are not actually people, and "this" is not a physical item. It would be nice to have a more concrete clue to work with.

But keep your Voldemort riddle, I'd like to see it!

[Urwen]

Well, if you want to see it so badly, here it is

I am a creature of night
I made death take flight
I have no nose
Yet my true nature is ophiose.

(Well, you wanted it and I wanted this thread to continue, so.)

[Pervinca Took]

Thorin and the Arkenstone? (The thief riddle).

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Pervinca Took]

Isildur stole the fruit of Nimloth. (It died, but the fruit didn't).

[Urwen]

Right time period, wrong answer.

[Huinesoron]

Well, if you want to see it so badly, here it is

I am a creature of night
I made death take flight
I have no nose
Yet my true nature is ophiose.

(Well, you wanted it and I wanted this thread to continue, so.)

Dropping back in after a madcap couple of weeks... ophiose, ophiose. Appears to be something to do with serpents... which makes it a very Voldemort riddle indeed!

But unless I missed something in Cursed Child, I don't think Voldy is in Middle-earth these days. So... you implied a connection to Gondolin... is it a Balrog? I feel like Gandalf said it was serpentine after its fall into water, and it's certainly a creature of Shadow (and as a Maia, has no innate nose). Not sure about the death part, unless it refers to them scaring away Ungoliant.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Do Balrogs have no noses? No wings, yes. But no noses on top of that is just salt in the wound. ;)

For the record, my first thought was that death taking flight IS the Balrog to whom the oh so ambiguous famous line refers. However I do not think there is a specific subject that would match that case.

[Galadriel55]

Ohh. Is it a Fell Beast? Main reason being that it allowed the Nazgul to fly.

[Urwen]

That was a joke riddle.....

[Galadriel55]

That was a joke riddle.....

But what if there is an actual answer? :eek: :D

[Huinesoron]

That was a joke riddle.....

[Quietly closes the Complete List of Noseless Entities of Arda...]

hS

[Urwen]

Would anyone like to go next?