Riddles in the Downs

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ah yes, sorry. I should be answering properly like these good fellows. ;) Incidentally, it would be the host of the Valar who came to Maedhros after the War of Wrath.

This is a beast of a riddle, Legate.

[The Might]

Maybe Feanor

For so long time I'm here - in the Halls of Mandos
though not from start of times. - indeed
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part.

I saw how Darkness comes, - Melkor chained
I saw how it departs. - as he left
I saw how it returns,
I saw the death of stars, - and destroyed the trees with Ungolioant
I saw corrupted hearts. - his own among others

Once They will come to me
to undo treachery - to give Yavanna the Silmarils
at that day, it all ends - maybe the chance for peace
I'll die by my own hands. - maybe a reference to his suicidal charge

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

at that day, it all ends - maybe the chance for peace
I'll die by my own hands. - maybe a reference to his suicidal charge
But it didn't end, did it? Keep trying. ;)

[Shards of Narsil]

I think its been ten days. You may need to give a small hint to get this rolling again Legate.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Surely I would. *scratches head*

Well... I suggest trying to look at this first:

a) what can "the greatest treachery" be
b) what can "the death of stars" be.

Just separately, try to think of it. Think of all treacheries you know, and think of all events which could be described as "death of stars".

And the events are chronological. So, we have general presentation (verse 1 and 2), and from then the timeline flows: some "greatest treachery" took place, then "Darkness came", then "Darkness departed", then "Darkness returned", then there was some "death of stars", then there were some "corrupted hearts" present. And at last, there will come some "They" to undo the previously named treachery, and "at that day, it all ends - I'll die by my own hands".

I hope it helps.

[Beregond]

Hmn, I'm going to take a stab at this. Galadriel? I'm not convinced I'm right, but I might as well try. :)


For so long time I'm here - in Beleriand/Middle-Earth
though not from start of times. - of course not.
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part. - Following the Noldor out of the Undying Lands

I saw how Darkness comes, - Morgoth in the 1st age
I saw how it departs. - Morgoth defeated
I saw how it returns, - Sauron returned
I saw the death of stars, - The Silmarils lost, and/or Gil-galad killed
I saw corrupted hearts. - Isildur/Saruman/Smeagol corrupted by the Ring.

Once They will come to me - the fellowship
to undo treachery - when she refused the Ring, the ban was lifted
at that day, it all ends - the diminishing of the elves in ME?
I'll die by my own hands. - passing into the West, at last

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

wow that is good. . . even if it is not what Legate had in mind, I still think it deserves to be accepted ;)

[Beregond]

Hehe, thank you. I labored long thinking about it though, and it was the best I could produce... everything else to hit my brain was already suggested. :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, I have to agree, it's very, very very nice, though, it's not what I had in mind, unfortunately. But it's quite inventive, I suggest you keep trying. The moment where I cannot accept your explanation is the last line, "I die by my own hands". This does not mean departing to the West or something like that: this means really total end to the existence, not just disappearing to some Undying lands or something like that.

P.S. AND I really suggest you continue in trying, Beregond, because your riddle contains two moments where your interpretation was completely precise, and these were quite crucial moments. I think you just need to decide and make clear some things, and you might as well be near the answer.

[Thinlómien]

Possibly Maedhros?
The greatest treachery = the rebellion of the Noldor and the Oath of Fëanor
The middle part = pretty much summarizing the Sil
They = Valar, Host of Aman
"at that day, it all ends/ I'll die by my own hands" - Maedhros and Maglor steal the Silmarils, they are allowed to keep them and Maedhros dies "by his own hands" when casting himself to the chasm

...?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

There were attempts like that before - unfortunately, I have to disappoint you, no. The events described in the middle part are not just "general", but refer to one specific significant coming of darkness, another significant depart of darkness, another significant return of darkness, not just to changes within some war or whatever, which would, in the way you present it, need to copy the Wars of Beleriand, like "coming, going, coming even near, coming" etc.

One more note: I guess the main fault most people make is not taking in account what was proven to be a wrong way by others. First person posts some answer, saying that X means something. I tell him that X was wrong and meant some other way. The second person takes care about X, but misinterpretates Y. I tell him that Y is meant differently and suggest him to think of it. Then third person comes and thinks about Y correctly, but misinterpretates X again the same way the first person did. I suggest verifying your guesses on what was said here before you post your own answers.

[Thinlómien]

Usch. I have been following the thread and I didn't bother to recheck it if there had been a similar guess (since I had forgotten about Eomer's guess)... :o :rolleyes:

:)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Usch. I have been following the thread and I didn't bother to recheck it if there had been a similar guess (since I had forgotten about Eomer's guess)...

:)
Never mind. Keep trying :)

[Beregond]

Well, I'm going to try again, and I fear I'm way off course now, and I'm not sure I've retained the two crucial points I hit before, but it can't hurt to try..and you haven't said it's a person....


Beleriand?

For so long time I'm here - yes, very long
though not from start of times. - not quite
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part. - Melkor fled to Beleriand and built Utumno there (unless it was further north?)

I saw how Darkness comes, - The first coming of Morgoth
I saw how it departs. - Morgoth defeated
I saw how it returns, - Morgoth come again to Angband
I saw the death of stars, - The Silmarils thrown into the sea and into a fiery chasm
I saw corrupted hearts. - Many many corrupted hearts it would have seen.

Once They will come to me -
to undo treachery - the Valar came to Beleriand, defeated Morgoth, and pardoned the Noldor
at that day, it all ends -
I'll die by my own hands. - Beleriand was destroyed and sunk into the sea......

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Interesting, interesting... good, inventive ideas - at least some... though, Beleriand is not the right answer. As I said earlier, the riddle goes chronologically (except for the "opening" lines), so "Death of stars" must have preceded to "They will come to me", which, in the case of Beleriand as you present it, was not true - the Valar came and THEN the Silmarils were cast to the Sea, fiery chasm, whatever. Also, Utumno was definitely further north - maybe Angband, but still, Beleriand was, as I understand it, the name of the land between Ered Engrin and Ered Luin and the Sea, so Angband itself wouldn't count in it... but in something, you are on right track and again one step closer - though I might say that you didn't retain the points from before :)

[Beregond]

Ah, I see the error of my ways, yes, I was forgetting the order in which things happened.

Interesting...I shall have to think still more on this. I must say, this is one heck of a riddle you have posed. Good job you were not Gollum..or should I say Gollum was not you? ;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Did I already guess "The One Ring" ?

For so long time I'm here
though not from start of times.
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part.

I saw how Darkness comes,
I saw how it departs.
I saw how it returns,
I saw the death of stars,
I saw corrupted hearts.

Once They will come to me
to undo treachery
at that day, it all ends
I'll die by my own hands.
The greatest treachery would then be how Sauron decieves Celembribor and all that Jazz.

Sauron rise to power, Sauron is defeated. The death of stars could be the clouding that Sauron sends over Mordor and Gondor, but this kind of limits the corrupted hearts. . . I wanted it to be the Nazgul, but then again it could also have been Boromir, or even Frodo and Frodo would actually be an alright answer if it is to be chronologically.

well, when the ring is cast into the fire then all that it has "made" will be undone and it kind of dies by its own hands. I mean if it did not have that drawing on people then Gollum would never take it from Frodo.

But seing that you said the Beleriand was on the right track, I think this is wrong.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Beleriand was on right track in one thing, in which you actually are on right track as well. And I might say you are very close in some things, Rune. Just think. "I'll die by my own hands..." the Ring didn't "die" by its own hands... Rune, don't let someone steal the thread from you, you are probably the closest of all who were here...

[Beregond]

Yet I will hinder it, if I may!

Orodruin? The fiery Chasm, the Sammath Naur?


For so long time I'm here - a very long time
though not from start of times. - no, Illuvatar formed it, or it formed itself - volcanoes tend to do that.
In greatest treachery
I at first took my part. - Sauron's forging of the One Ring, deceiving the Elves

I saw how Darkness comes, - Sauron coming to Mordor
I saw how it departs. - Sauron defeated for a while
I saw how it returns, - Sauron comes back and rebuilds Barad-Dur
I saw the death of stars, - Like Rune said, the covering of the skies? Orodruin took a part in this though. Also, the death of Gil-galad, but that's out of order.
I saw corrupted hearts. - Frodo and Smeagol of course

Once They will come to me - Frodo and Sam and Smeagol
to undo treachery - to destroy the Ring
at that day, it all ends - everything built by Sauron with the Ring is destroyed, and...
I'll die by my own hands. - the mountain pretty much explodes

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed, it was Orodruin. But to be precise, the "death of stars" I originally thought of referring to Gil-Galad and the "go-return" was supposed to be about the time when Sauron was taken to Númenor and returned. Then, of course, the "corrupted hearts" would refer primarily to Isildur and then you can add almost everyone else to it...

So, Beregond, it's yours now :)

[Beregond]

Yay! :D Now, I admit I'm not a great riddler, but I'll do my best. :)

By falling of my namesake did I dwell,
Till from the mountains came a fell.
Then promise was made to seal my fate,
Yet in the end I came too late.
Stubborn in ways, and bane of King,
Listen close, for still I sing.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Beautiful riddle! Though I really don't know the answer :D

Hmm... maybe Nimrodel?

By falling of my namesake did I dwell, - the waterfall of Nimrodel
Till from the mountains came a fell. - the Orcs in the Mountains
Then promise was made to seal my fate, - she went to the south with Amroth
Yet in the end I came too late. - Amroth's ship was already away when she came there
Stubborn in ways, and bane of King, - "the King" is Amroth, of course: an elven king
Listen close, for still I sing. - it's said her voice still sings there.

[Beregond]

Gaaaaaah, you're way too smart. Nimrodel is precisely right. :p The only thing you didn't answer was "stubborn", which was because she still spoke the Silvan tongue when it had fallen into disuse amongst the other elves of Lorien. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, must be the practice :) Okay, let's go with another...

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high.
Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again!

P.S. Sorry for the little dots - please ignore them, there should have been blank spots there to make it look nicer, but the Downs do not support stand-alone blank points. There was no better option, since with indents it would look very nasty and deadly for your eyes and brains.
P.P.S. And sorry for the whole riddle... :) You know, this just sometimes happens...

[The Might]

I say Treebeard

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high. - he sang songs about Beleriand, so he must have been around the world; and he is tall
Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast. - he was present from the beginning together with other old Ents
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me. - everything was ok

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help. - he might either mean the gards of Isengard killed by Dunlanders, or Numenoreans (as High Man is a translation for tarkil, which means Men of the West more or less)
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this. - again, not sure who is meant by this

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned. - not sure which bringer...Gandalf
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone. - perhaps the Entwives that left

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name? - some do, but most don't
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor. - the Rohirrim feared the trees and considered them a legend

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all. - Isengard and Saruman's machines
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone. - Gandalf that came to Fangorn and then again left possibly

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return, - as in the last riddle, Sauron's clouds
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come. - Sauron's return
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer. - Aragorn that came to Orthanc
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him. - the Keys of Orthanc, that were found during the Ents' victory

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me! - he made sure Saruman and Grima didn't escape
Years uncounted must have passed by me - quite old
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again! - could be interpreted as getting rid of Saruman

I know I haven't found matches for everything, but I think it's him.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good try, but it's not correct, though I agree with you that for example the part with the garden and cold stone strongly evokes Treebeard. Though, it's not like that. Some of the other parts wouldn't probably much go together with Treebeard.

Though the riddle is not as consistent as these before (and it's terribly long, for which I apologize once again, because it can surely prove quite distracting; on the other hand, the more info you have, the better), there is more or less continuity and time-dependance. At least in that way, that the beginning of the riddle is the beginning also chronologically, and that the end is also the end chronologically (which is probably obvious even without me saying that). But the riddle is self-consistent at least in the separate strophes - the theme of each strophe is still around the same thing, so you may use it as basis (though I more or less tried also to keep it chronological even strophe by strophe, though it's somewhat switching, moving or blending timelines together somewhere).

[The Might]

Could it be...the Barrow-wight?

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high. - from the height of the barrows
Before the darkness I found my friends here, - buried
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast. - before the Witch-king sent evil spirits from Angmar and Rhudaur
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me. - Originally the barrows were the resting places of the Dunedain and their ancestors, but the Barrow-downs were abandoned when the Dunedain were stricken by the Great Plague of 1636

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.- maybe the last Prince of Cardolan

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned. - Frodo and his friends
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name? - pretty clear
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor. - all know that area as a place of dread

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine? - the curse from the Witch-king
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone. - Frodo and the others

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him. - from this tomb came the swords of Westernesse, one of which helped defeat the Witch-king

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me! - warder to the Hobbits
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again! - as Tom came stones rolled away and light came into the barrow

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

No, though good attempt, not the answer I'm looking for. I know the images presented in the riddle are very much "general" in many aspects, there are particularities, which can give you very good advice... and you wouldn't explain them with your current answers.

Keep trying ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Don't tell me you are giving it up, I hope this is just a break! Because actually, the riddle is pretty easy. (and that itself is a hint)

[The Might]

Maybe the Redhorn?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nope (I'm sure you will find things in the riddle that wouldn't fit). But you are very close (in one very important aspect).

P.S. And as I said, it's easy! Indeed VERY easy. (and cf. what I said above, that itself is a hint)

[Gil-Galad]

I am crossed between Gandalf and Turgon of Gondolin

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm, well then that's really far...

[The Might]

Maybe Earendil in Vingilot.
If the legends about Vingilot made out of mithril are true, then it should be quite light as well.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

No way. That's all too far. Redhorn was a very, very, very close answer in several aspects.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I say Minas Ithil.

Built in friendship, and existing before it saw darkness itself. Witnessing the High Man fall far from home (Earnur). Abandoned, name taken away, new name of terror; and prison of stone. This is all straight-forward. I can't quite make the end fit, though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

There are also two events left that you won't be probably able to explain. The first is
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
and the second
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.

And if it were Minas Ithil, wouldn't it be easiemore proper to say instead Calm touch of sun was still on my face something about moon?

So, the answer is no. But you are using quite right way of explaining the verses. Okay, a hint comes - I will tell you something about every paragraph, hopefully it will help you:

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high.
Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.
This one is, I think, quite clear: the substance is as you see it. If you were to understand something from it absolutely correctly, though, you'll have to look to Unfinished Tales. But you can even without it.

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.
This one speaks in a more important way than it may seem.

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.
Again, here there is something you can understand only if you are familiar with the UT. But it's not vital for understanding the riddle, you may use it just to check your answer if you think you got it.

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.
I daresay Eomer understood well the point of this part, he just needs to find some other subject about which this may speak.

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone.
This actually brings you some information about the state of the subject and the state and dynamism of what is around him.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.
The beginning of this, especially the second verse, is something that can by itself tell you the answer. There is a very similar statement, and the only one, in one of the books (and I will tell you that it is not Unfinished Tales this time). However, unless you know it and know where it is, you probably could only stumble upon it in a book by chance, because it is something people generally don't remember. You can still answer the riddle even without it, though.
The rest of the verse speaks also about one very important matter, which I think can be the best trace to you to find the answer itself.

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again!
Now the first verse speaks once again about the state of the subject, while the rest speaks about its final fate.

[sallkid]

Just a shot in the dark.... Gollum?

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high. - (Searching for frodo?)
Before the darkness I found my friends here, - (before the darkness = before the ring?)
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.
This one speaks in a more important way than it may seem.

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught. (under the moiuntain, no news or time)
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar, (frodo?)
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone. (under the mountains in gollum's pool)


Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow. (to know of gollum is to know of the ring)
My name was taken away from me long ago, (Smeagol was cursed "gollum" and forgot his true name over the ages)
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name? (frodo?)
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.


Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.
Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone. (for a short while gollum seems to help the hobbits)


Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him. (bilbo and the ring?)


Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again! (ok, this doesn't fit my idea so i must be wrong, but i'll still submit on the off chance)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sorry, but not right. As you said yourself, the final verse wouldn't make sense at all, and there is many more that wouldn't fit, for example:
Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.
There's no way you're getting this to fit with Gollum's story. But you at least tried.

[sallkid]

Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.

actually if slightly twisted it would fit in with isildur's losing the ring, although gollum never saw this it's still linked with his story.

[Beanamir of Gondor]

See, my first guess was Moria because of the "man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer." Then I thought The Might had it with Caradhras (Redhorn) because Moria has neither a garden to look over, nor is it high up in the air. But then, Moria technically isn't the walls of Caradhras...

So, since it's not Minas Ithil (another one that made sense to me) my guess is with Gil-Galad on Gondolin, literally because of the sixth stanza alone.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.
There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.

Seven gates...
Tuor wandered there...
The Gondolindrim were saved by Tuor and Idril... if not precisely victorious.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A very good attempt, it will go with most of the riddle, though I am not quite sure how Gondolin would make it with this:
Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.

Also good idea with the seven gates (I understand you meant it that the "seven times stronger darkness" is seven times stronger because it has to be "stronger" than the gates? Other explanation will probably not make sense - the riddle speaks of the darkness being seven times stronger.)

I think it will maybe help you riddlers to write some sort of a list while reading the riddle, noting what criteria the subject has to fulfil, and then try to think what the subject may be.

E.g. you read another riddle and a read a line saying "When the stars fade, you may begin to see me", you make a note: "it appears in the morning". Etc.

[Rumil]

Ah Legate, fantastic riddle, the clue's in your own name of course! Very sneaky!

My nomination (and in this I am unanimous) is Dol Guldur, aka Amon Lanc, whence comes the Legate

OK so,

Above the trees and above the valleys
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ around the world I'm looking from high.

I'm a mountain above the trees and valleys of Mirkwood

Before the darkness I found my friends here,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ being here before darkness was cast.
Calm touch of sun was still on my face,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ clouds of shadow were not upon me.

Before Sauron came it was a habitation of friendly elves

Dangerous time has settled on the world,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ doubt and doom coming to Wise men of old.

The time of the Last Alliance

Even though High Man was in my sight
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ early he died, no one could help.
Far from home he died, I am a witness
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ fear will fall on all because of this.

Isildur ambushed by the orcs at the Gladden Field

Grave times then came, and to me as well
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ great deeds were done, but I knew of naught.
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
I was lost yet though, abandoned by friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ in creeping darkness I was left alone.

Sauron occupied Dol Guldur around 1000 TA

Kindness don't seek at me - from the dark times,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ knowledge of me is knowledge of shadow.
My name was taken away from me long ago,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ may someone yet still remember my name?
Now I am story of fear among once-friends,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ name of mine recalls only tremor.

remember my name ;) Dol Guldur - Amon Lanc, we still remember you!

Over my garden I look still in fear,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ oh, what if all of it comes into dark?
Prison of stone now stands where I be
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ past joy forgotten, cold stone is all.

The Necromancer's fortress

Really there's no way to lift curse of mine?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ rare hope appears sometime - soon to be gone.

Stars have been hidden, darkness will return,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ seven times stronger the darkness will come.

Dol Guldur occupied wth sevenfold stremgth before the War of the Ring

There was the man who came to the wall,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ to my gate came once weary wanderer.
Verily, was it just wisdom he sought? Or more? -
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ victory's key was what I gave to him.

Gandalf's two missions to the mountain

Warder I became to them who my Lord brought,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ woe betide those who come to know me!
Years uncounted must have passed by me -

Dol Guldur is Sauron's prison

ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ "Yield!" I hear. "Darkness, leave him at once!"
Zenith of sunlight - can it be true?
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ zither and horn, I am free again!

But after the victory of Frodo and Sam, Galadriel and co. cross over to Mirkwood, changing it back to Greenwood the Great and perhaps Dol Guldur to Amon Lanc again

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Applause! Great work! You are a good riddler. You solved everything in the riddle, even the "seven times stronger" part; the only thing you did not mention was the
Hope and its bringer I have seen from afar,
ִ̣̣̣̣̣̣̣ ִ ִ have been observing the tide that has turned.
Which was, actually, referring to something that happened near, like Isildur's death, and that was the event of the ride of Eorl (resp. Borondir).

So, I think you indeed deserve to take the thread :)

[Rumil]

Cheers Legate,

now for my first ever riddle, how exciting!


Cold be my bones, under turf, under sky,
Close to deep waters forever I lie,

From vic'try to vic'try I marched for to win,
From darkness of old the place of our kin,

Counsel we heeded not,
Allies we needed not,

I slew their great leader in bright shining sun,
T'was darkness we came to turn light when we'd won,

The black shaft it took me to darkness from light,
The first one to fall in vainglorious fight.

Good luck,

:)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'll try, okay? I just cannot resist :)

I think this could be Flói, one of the Dwarves who was with Balin in Moria.

Cold be my bones, under turf, under sky,
Close to deep waters forever I lie,
Flói under grass near Mirror mere
Here I came to think that this refers to someone buried near Mirrormere, for a short moment I thought of Balin - but then I remembered that Balin's tomb was inside. I also thought about maybe some other Dwarf from the Battle of Azanulbizar. But after I read the below, I remembered that quote.

From vic'try to vic'try I marched for to win,
From darkness of old the place of our kin,
This could have been many things, but in this image it fits well with the image of a fighting Dwarf - and Moria.

Counsel we heeded not,
Allies we needed not,
Wilfully they entered Moria, even though Dáin did not like it.

I slew their great leader in bright shining sun,
T'was darkness we came to turn light when we'd won,
This was actually what made me think of Flói. Because:
we slew many in the bright (...) sun in the dale. Flói was killed by an arrow. He slew the great

The black shaft it took me to darkness from light,
The first one to fall in vainglorious fight.
Black shaft = Moria. It seemed sure to me at that moment that we're speaking of Moria here. Flói is mentined as the first Dwarf killed by the Orcs.

Great riddle!

[Rumil]

Is it not said,

oooo you are so sharp you'll cut yourself one day


All yours....

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sorry for the delay with the riddle... I was not here for some time and then couldn't come up with anything... (What do I have in my pocket?)

I hope I'll be around to reflect on possible answers, since on summer I'm sometimes not on places with computer access, but at least once a week I probably will be able to check... so just post your guesses, and I'll tell you all always when I'm here.

Here is the riddle.


I'm living in a land
where enchanted stream flows,
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes.

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk
to visit my best friend
to simply sit and talk.

But when darkness comes down
When lightnings fill the sky
I leave my home and town
When foe is passing by

I'm living in a land
Where cold stone serves for bed
All things will come to end
Tomorrow, I'll be dead


I hope you will enjoy it :cool:

[Gil-Galad]

Beorn?

I'm living in a land - living in Carrock
where enchanted stream flows, - the river of mirkwood was enchanted
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes. - everyone who touches the stream gets drowsy and lost in dream

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk
to visit my best friend
to simply sit and talk.

But when darkness comes down
When lightnings fill the sky
I leave my home and town
When foe is passing by Beorn cosntantly fights the goblins and wargs

I'm living in a land
Where cold stone serves for bed - carrock is a flat stone land
All things will come to end
Tomorrow, I'll be dead

i can't think right now... sorry for the half-responses, but its a try and maybe you should let me think of some riddles next time you get this, you always make your questions go on for 2-3 pages... disheartening :P

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, sorry... really, I don't want to cause despair :) I just don't want to come up with anything far too easy... well, I even cannot, it seems... after all, I'm not generally picking hard things to guess (maybe save for the last time, but f.ex. before it was Orodruin).

But this time, Beorn it is not, and maybe if you had more time you will realize (for example, where would you pick up the best friend - and also, the river is quite far from Beorn's house). But as you said it was a try, so you may try again (or others, of course).

[The Might]

Well, I'm back from vacation to annoy you all again...
So let me try...what about Gollum?

I'm living in a land
where enchanted stream flows,
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes. - was living with the Stoors near the Gladden

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk
to visit my best friend
to simply sit and talk. - to the Ring he had in the mountains

But when darkness comes down
When lightnings fill the sky
I leave my home and town
When foe is passing by - the storm in the Hobbit; home could refer to his rock in the lake, and town could be Goblin-town, where he went to find some food; he left both as Bilbo, his foe, came.

I'm living in a land
Where cold stone serves for bed - his rock in the Misty Mountains, and also Mordor
All things will come to end
Tomorrow, I'll be dead - He could be saying the riddle while in Mordor before reaching the Sammath Naur.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ha, Miggy's back! Nice, nice attempt... though no, not what I had in mind. Was the river at Gladden fields enchanted? I never heard about it. And Gollum did not need to go to visit his friend - his "friend", as you put it, was with him all the time. So, nope:)

[Gil-Galad]

Treebeard!


I'm living in a land - Fangorn
where enchanted stream flows, - Entwash contains the super ent drink
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes. - no fighting in the forest

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk - Treebeard lives uphill
to visit my best friend - a friend in the forest
to simply sit and talk. - ents like to sit and talk

But when darkness comes down
When lightnings fill the sky - saurmans magic
I leave my home and town - Treebeard goes off to fight
When foe is passing by - when sarumans army is passing by fangorn

I'm living in a land - Fangorn
Where cold stone serves for bed - simply sits down
All things will come to end - he has been one to state the mortality of the world
Tomorrow, I'll be dead - there is no mroe entings and no more ent-wives so treebeards line is ending

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good try, but I have to disappoint you. No.

The flaws are only a few, but they exclude Treebeard quite clearly, I think.

"to visit my best friend" - I think it's obvious we speak about one particular friend, and who would that be in Treebeard's case? We know several other Ents, but none is described as being indeed the "best friend".

"to simply sit and talk. - ents like to sit and talk" - oh, you erred here, my friend, and I think quite a lot. Ents like to talk, well, maybe, but surely not to sit! Let the Master himself speak:
"...And I do not sit down. I am not very, hm, bendable."

And finally:
"I leave my home and town" - Treebeard did not live in any TOWN.

This riddle is one of these that are not much metaphorical - so everything is literal, indeed, how it is written, that's how you should read it. Believe me, it's easy... mwa ha ha ha!!! (now think whatever you want about the last - after someone solves the riddle, you'll know).;)

[Shards of Narsil]

Could it be Tom Bombadil?


I'm living in a land
where enchanted stream flows,
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes.

The Old Forest had an enchanted stream, or maybe it was trees

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk
to visit my best friend
to simply sit and talk.

I don't have my copy of FTR, but I seem to recall that Tom walked uphill to go home and meet with Goldberry.

But when darkness comes down
When lightnings fill the sky
I leave my home and town
When foe is passing by

I'm living in a land
Where cold stone serves for bed
All things will come to end
Tomorrow, I'll be dead

As for the last two verses, I can't specifically relate them to Tom.

[Gil-Galad]

Gandalf?


I'm living in a land - Undying Lands
where enchanted stream flows,
where flowers blossom, and
no fight is there, no foes. - its peaceful in them Undying lands

When all my work is done
uphill I sometimes walk - Where Varda and Manwe live is on a hill
to visit my best friend - could be Varda, or Manwe
to simply sit and talk.

But when darkness comes down - Sauron
When lightnings fill the sky
I leave my home and town - left Undying Lands
When foe is passing by

I'm living in a land - Middle Earth
Where cold stone serves for bed - lives off land
All things will come to end - as a Maia he is aware of the song
Tomorrow, I'll be dead - no that when his task his done he goes back to never be heard of again

[Rumil]

This is a tricky one Legate!

my (somewhat leftfield) guess is Gorbag

I'm living in a land - Morgul Vale
where enchanted stream flows, -Faramir warned Frodo not to drink the water
where flowers blossom, and - pale noisome flowers
no fight is there, no foes. - we're all happy orcs together!

When all my work is done - slaving away for the big bosses
uphill I sometimes walk - a little stroll up through Shelob's lair
to visit my best friend - that charming fella Shagrat
to simply sit and talk. - about the old days when we could ravage and thieve to ours hearts content

But when darkness comes down - the War of The Ring starts
When lightnings fill the sky - signal to start the march on Gondor
I leave my home and town - Minas Morgul
When foe is passing by - Nazgul uneasy, possible spies on the stairs

I'm living in a land
Where cold stone serves for bed - wounded and lying on the floor of Cirith Ungol
All things will come to end
Tomorrow, I'll be dead - when I make a last ditch attempt to finish off Shagrat, the filthy backstabbing snaga!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Rumil was correct! Great work, buddy! I see even though it was a little bit tricky, you managed it. (As I had planned, at first everyone supposed the answer to be one of the "good guys" because of the flowers and no fights and old friend etc.;)) And your explanations of all parts of the riddle are perfectly correct. Feel free to take the thread.

[Rumil]

Hi all,

thanks Legate, I admit I had to go to the map to try and find somewhere with a hill, an enchanted stream and a town and work it out like that. Anyway, this one should be quite easy, my rhyming ran away with me, but who's the subject and who is their sweetheart? I want elvish names too!

Oh, I went for a bevy,
and a knees-up levee,
at the good old rub-a-dub dub

You could tell I wasn't thinking,
by the ales I was sinking,
but everyone kept drinking,
arm-in-arm, glasses clinking

Till it all went wrong,
in the middle of the song,
as I gracefully slid to the floor,
But a jolly nice bloke,
the landlord and his folk,
gave me a hand to the door

The next day was dawning,
hungover, sick and yawning,
My sweetheart she was fuming,
her working day was looming,
her voice was loud and booming,
like a trumpet needing tuning

She made it very plain,
for the second time again,
that I should in no way come near,
But despite all the grief,
bumps, bruises, broken teeth,
It was the best fun I've had all year!

good luck but I'm sure you won't need it;)

[Rumil]

Hi all,

I'm away from the Downs for a fortnight or so, so please carry on riddling,

All the Best,

Rumil

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

good luck but I'm sure you won't need it;)
I think we would :) It does not seem too easy, really... (though I'm sure when we know the answer...)

But please someone try to answer it before I move into that phase that I'll start to think about it and then you won't stop me till I find the answer... noo... it's catching me... help! Must... resist... I don't want to even start thinking about it, really, because really I won't stop from then... and I think more people should show up on this thread :)

[Rumil]

Well, I'm back!

go on, have a guess, you know you want to! By the way Legate, I have used quite a lot of poetic licence in this one,

Cheers,

Rumil

[Thinlómien]

Possibly The Man in the Moon? That resembles the song Frodo sang in Bree all too much. :D

[Rumil]

Well done Thinlomien,

indeed it was the Man in the Moon, for an extra few points you could tell me who his sweetheart was and their elvish names,

Your turn to riddle!

Cheers,

Rumil

[Thinlómien]

for an extra few points you could tell me who his sweetheart was and their elvish names,She was the Sun and their elvish names were Tilion and Arien... Can I have my extra points now? :p (Unless, of course, you mean the odd man in the moon from the Lost Tales...)

Anyway, here comes the next one.


You can't tell if I'm young or old,
you can't tell if I'm silver or gold.
They say I'm like an Elven queen
but that I'm not and have never been.

[Rumil]

Hi Thinlomien,

truckloads of points already coming in your direction! :D

for a quick guess, I'll go with a mallorn tree,

Cheers,

Rumil

[Thinlómien]

Thank you, Rumil, but unfortunately you're wrong. :)

I've edited the riddle: I've replaced "and I've never been" with "and have never been", nothing more special I just thought it would be better English... So don't wonder why it has been edited...

[Gil-Galad]

i'm going to have to go With Arwen on this one...

[Thinlómien]

Nope... :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You know the feeling when you are trying hard to remember something, but cannot, and feel it just outside of your reach, but you know it is there? That's the feeling I have now. I have the feeling that I know what the answer is, but cannot "remember" it. Unless my feelings are misguiding me :)

I will try answering Taniquetil now, though I am 99% sure it's not the right answer.

[Thinlómien]

A good guess - about your answer not being correct. :p

Keep on trying, folks. It's not difficult. :)

[Gil-Galad]

Varda?

Mainly with the silver and gold, because she created the Stars and has no dedication to either sun(gold) or moon(silver)

EDIT: Touche mr. Lanc...touche

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You probably mean Varda, Gil?
Varna is a city in Bulgaria.

However you brought back one of my thoughts from yesterday, which was that it could be one of the Valier, more like Vána. However... I am still quite convinced that the answer is somewhere else.

[Thinlómien]

I am still quite convinced that the answer is somewhere else.And you're right in that. :D

Sorry, Gil & Legate, you're both wrong this time... Keep guessing. :)

Oh, and the line "you can't tell if I'm silver or gold" is probably slightly debatable :o, so don't make it the cornerstone of your evidence (I'm not saying here that you shouldn't use it at all, just that you shouldn't take it too literally...) ...

[The Might]

Before I answer I would like to ask for a tip...is the "Elven queen" part also debatable or has the answer really been named that?

[Thinlómien]

Before I answer I would like to ask for a tip...is the "Elven queen" part also debatable or has the answer really been named that?It/he/she has been described to be like, or been compared to, an Elven queen.

[Rumil]

Is it Goldberry?

I think she was compared with an elven queen,

Cheers,

Rumil

[Thinlómien]

Well done, Rumil, you're right. It is Goldberry. Your turn. :)

[Rumil]

Yay, thats been bugging me all week, nice one Thinlomien!

good luck with this one

A mighty hunter me,
when I prowl the night,
the beasts take flight
or I'd have 'em for my tea.

I chanced one eve on three,
vast giants of great might,
and most astounding height,
from whom I ought to flee,

But I couldn't be bothered

Cheers,

Rumil

[The Might]

I doubt it's the correct one, but still worth a try...Beorn.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Somehow I am inclined to think that at least the second half is metaphorical (the giants). Unless...

Unless, now it hit me, unless it refers to Bert, Tom and Bill? Then it could be... well, Bilbo (then the hunter part would be also metaphorical... uh-huh, have for TEA? The tea would fit... :) ) Or in other circumstances, Aragorn (as a Ranger - Hunter), but then I think it was not in the evening, but during the day... Bilbo sounds better.

[Rumil]

Hi Might and Legate,

'fraid it's none of the characters you mentioned. The key thing here is to look at it from the point of view of the subject. ;)

The answer is quite an obscure one!


Cheers,

Rumil

[The Might]

I'm thinking about the threed mountains above Moria.
Though both Gandalf and Aragorn could be meant in this context...though considering the hunter thing, I'll take Aragorn.

[Rumil]

;)Hi Might,

I'm sorry to say the answer is waaaaay more obscure than Aragorn ;), I like your thinking but you're definitely barking up the wrong tree!

Cheers,

Rumil

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The first part makes me think of Smaug or some similar sort of dragon, monster, whatever... but then, the giants don't fit. I have to re-start after the summer, it seems my wits are sleepy or what...:smokin:

[The Might]

Well, you said obscure, so here's a really obscure answer.

I'd it's the strange fox that sees the Hobbits in a fir-wood.

A mighty hunter me,
when I powl the night,
the beasts take flight
or I'd have 'em for my tea.- a fox is at least in the Shire probably the greatest hunter

I chanced one eve on three,
vast giants of great might,
and most astounding height,
from whom I ought to flee, - Hobbits would appear to a fox as giants

But I couldn't be bothered - the fox strats to think why the Hobbits are there

[Rumil]

Congratulations to The Might,

exactly 100% spot on!

It is indeed the curious fox,

I like to think that in the fox's mind he was as great a hunter as Aragorn or Smaug, its just on a different scale, like the hobbits, who appear giants in comparison with the fox. Of course he would generally flee from hobbits due to their propensity to chuck stones with great accuracy, but realised that they weren't paying any attention to him.

The thread is now all yours,

Happy Riddling!:D

[The Might]

Well...I must say I was not really expecting that to be correct...but nice to see that my very obscure answer is what you also had in mind.
I'll think of a good riddle, and post it soon.

[The Might]

Has the hunger of a hunter
And likes to laugh
Might look to many weak
But actually is quite tough

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It could be a hobbit. It reminds me of Treebeard's new description in his list. And the hobbits obviously look weak, but as we know, are actually quite tough.

[Rumil]

As Legate says we're thinking hobbits here,

my guess is Frodo,

Cheers

[The Might]

Again a quick and correct answer Legate.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, what to say, I am back :)

All right, I hope you'd like the following one.

Memory of old
that I still hold:
That distant day
Last glimpse of gold
turning to grey.

Followed my way:
Another day
another world
falling to dark.
Shores of the sea;
just little spark
of jealousy.

High hopes and light
and the soul sold.
Power and pride.
All smooth and cold.

Glory and grace,
everything's gone:
Weary old face,
voice but a moan;
dust in my eyes -
all that remained.

Going in circles.
Cannot be saved.

I don't want just the answer, I'd also like (it may be just roughly) the explanation of all the parts of the riddle. Answer without explanation won't be considered an answer and I won't say even if it's right or wrong.

[Gil-Galad]

Saruman

Memory of old
that I still hold:
That distant day - when he left valinor
Last glimpse of gold
turning to grey.

Followed my way:
Another day
another world
falling to dark. - journeyed eastwards
Shores of the sea;
just little spark
of jealousy. - jealous of the one ring

High hopes and light - beleived he would succeed
and the soul sold.
Power and pride.
All smooth and cold.

Glory and grace,
everything's gone: - was defeated
Weary old face,
voice but a moan; - lost his power after staff broken
dust in my eyes -
all that remained.

Going in circles.
Cannot be saved. - his spirit tries to go west but a strong wind constently pushes it east

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I thought this would be an easy one. Some of the riddle's parts were meant differently than you interpretate them, but my point was that you have at least general idea and not just blindly shooting in the dark.

(For eventual interpreters, I'd only correct two important moments in the riddle: the "jealousy" was a hint on Gandalf who received Narya right after his arrival; and the final two lines were not supposed to point to bruta facta as Gil interpreted it :) but pointing to Saruman's constant rejecting of mercy offered to him by Gandalf, Galadriel, Frodo etc.)

Enough of this. Gil-Galad, well done, it's your turn now.

[The Might]

Umm...Gil-Galad?

[Gil-Galad]

wow i actually have a turn in the Riddle... nice...


Come to me my brethern
a new day is for us
the threat of death is gone
feel my wind

Come to me my sons
we have new friends among us
we are not defeated yet
feel no fear

Come to defend our land
they may come in black
but we shall beat them back with our two hands
feel the hospitality of my table with my lord

Come to me my new king
fire means nothing to us
our protector will save us again
feel my age and remember

have fun!

[The Might]

Oh man, this is a hard one...
Maybe Beregond...but really it's so confusing

[Gil-Galad]

negatory little buddy, try again!! and i'm being picky by asking for explanation too... :p

[Rumil]

Wow Gil this is a difficult one!

here's my current thinking but I'm fairly sure that I'm wrong because a few things need to be twisted to fit...

I'm going for the King of The Dead

Come to me my brethern
a new day is for us
the threat of death is gone
feel my wind

The king is calling his people together on being summoned by Aragorn, the threat of death is gone because they long for Eru's gift, 'feel my wind' (after inducing unnecessary chortles;)) made me think of the cold wind that blew the Rangers' torches out on the Paths of the Dead

Come to me my sons
we have new friends among us
we are not defeated yet
feel no fear

Again calling the dead together, the new friends are Aragorn & co., they certainly aren't defeated and it'll be the opposition who need to worry about fear!

Come to defend our land
they may come in black
but we shall beat them back with our two hands
feel the hospitality of my table with my lord

The land that used to be theirs needs defending aginst the Corsairs of Umbar whose ships have black sails, they have little need of weapons, the hospitality bit could be a metaphor for finally accepting death??

Come to me my new king
fire means nothing to us
our protector will save us again
feel my age and remember

Aragorn is the new king, they're too ghostly to be bothered by fire. The house of Isildur saved them in the past but they became traitors and were cursed, therefore Aragorn will release them from Isildur's curse and save them 'again' (this is really pushing it, no?), feel my age - well they have been about for 3000 years give or take!

Hmmm, tricksy!

Cheers,

Rumil

[Gil-Galad]

sorry thats wrong, but your guesses are on the right track! that was a really great attempt at it

[Gil-Galad]

I don't want to give a hint because that would make this too easy... but keep trying!

[Rumil]

Hi Gil,

sorry been away for a while, and this one still eludes me!

could you give us a clue as to whether the answer is in The Hobbit&LoTR or elsewhere (eg Silm)??

Cheers,

Rumil

[Gil-Galad]

LOTR


think outside of the box...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I had several ideas, but this one seems more logical. I'd say the answer is Rohan itself, speaking to the Rohirrim after Théoden's healing. Eventually, it could be Helm's Deep (mainly due to these words like "come TO ME").

Come to me my brethern
a new day is for us - the dawn at Helm's Deep
the threat of death is gone
feel my wind - this is one of the parts that makes me think of Rohan itself, I take it as the reference to the moment when Théoden goes outside his hall and wind blows from Rohan.

Come to me my sons - meaning sons of the country
we have new friends among us[/I] - Aragorn & co.
we are not defeated yet
feel no fear - though the situation is pretty bad, they can still fight against Saruman

Come to defend our land - against the Uruk-hai
they may come in black
but we shall beat them back with our two hands
feel the hospitality of my table with my lord - the lord being Théoden

Come to me my new king - Théoden is, so to say, a "new" king after the years of Wormtongue's lies
fire means nothing to us - Saruman's "sorcery"
our protector will save us again - Helm! That scene at the end of Helm's Deep
feel my age and remember - the land itself is ancient.

What confuses me is the "two hands", I believe it's not there just for fun (everyone knows Men have two hands) but a metaphore, though I'm not able to think of what it should mean. Or, if it's indeed Helm's Deep, are there not something like two rows of walls or rocks around? I don't know now.

[Gil-Galad]

Good guess legate, you are close in one respect, but far in another... but keep up this guessing! think of ROTK!!!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It could be, of course, Gondor as a country (or Minas Tirith, for that matter). Then the King will be indeed "new" and all the other words fit as well (about enemies coming in black and so on). The "new day" could then refer to the passing darkness when the Corsair ships (with Aragorn) come, there is a lot said about wind there as well.

[Gil-Galad]

It could be, of course, Gondor as a country (or Minas Tirith, for that matter). Then the King will be indeed "new" and all the other words fit as well (about enemies coming in black and so on). The "new day" could then refer to the passing darkness when the Corsair ships (with Aragorn) come, there is a lot said about wind there as well.

quite close, but i need you to be more exact

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

quite close, but i need you to be more exact

More exact about what? About the answer itself, or just the details of the aspects of the question?

[The Might]

My answer is south Gondor.

Come to me my brethern
a new day is for us
the threat of death is gone
feel my wind - the South Wind, invoked by Aragorn and Legolas at Amon Hen and that brought their ships up the Anduin to Minas Tirith in time.

Come to me my sons - the Southern Gondorians that followed Aragorn
we have new friends among us - the Grey Company
we are not defeated yet
feel no fear

Come to defend our land
they may come in black - the Corsairs
but we shall beat them back with our two hands
feel the hospitality of my table with my lord

Come to me my new king
fire means nothing to us - probably the stuff burned by the Corsairs, such as some ships
our protector will save us again - the Heir to the throne of Gondor perhaps, just as Isildur saved it by cutting off the Ring
feel my age and remember

[Gil-Galad]

TM is semi-correct with South Gondor, but i'm looking for an exact place in southern gondor, and i would love to read all your reasons why

if i didn't give hints you guys would still be clueless...

[The Might]

I say Pelargir.

Come to me my brethern
a new day is for us
the threat of death is gone
feel my wind - the South Wind, invoked by Aragorn and Legolas at Amon Hen and that brought their ships up the Anduin to Minas Tirith in time.

Come to me my sons - the Southern Gondorians that followed Aragorn
we have new friends among us - the Grey Company
we are not defeated yet
feel no fear

Come to defend our land
they may come in black - the Corsairs
but we shall beat them back with our two hands
feel the hospitality of my table with my lord

Come to me my new king - Pelargir already had been capital, even if only for a short time
fire means nothing to us - probably the stuff burned by the Corsairs, such as some ships in Pelargir
our protector will save us again - Eldacar besieged the sons of Castamir and defeated them there
feel my age and remember

[Gil-Galad]

that it is

Come to me my brethern - aragorn and grey company
a new day is for us
the threat of death is gone - dead men of dunharrow
feel my wind - south wind

Come to me my sons
we have new friends among us - aragorn
we are not defeated yet
feel no fear

Come to defend our land
they may come in black - corsairs
but we shall beat them back with our two hands - axeman of pelargir
feel the hospitality of my table with my lord - the current lord was Forlong the Fat.

Come to me my new king - old capital
fire means nothing to us
our protector will save us again - aragorn was there before
feel my age and remember - a very old city


i liked this riddle and i was glad that most thought it was hard...

[The Might]

In case you wonder why I am not posting, know that I am thinking of one, but hopefully I'll manage to find a good one...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

We know and we are waiting :D

[The Might]

For long I have been waiting
For things I had to say
Alas! For now I've said them
And I shall pass away.

Just made it up in 30 seconds after getting the idea, but I still hope it will prove to be a challenge...:)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Isn't that the old man in Dunharrow, who said "The way is shut?"

[The Might]

Too strong the force is with this one.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Does that mean "Yes"?

[The Might]

Right you are!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, hmm, eat, eat, hot!

Please give me some time to make up the riddle, then I will put it up here... shouldn't take long.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

We left our homes
for the new lands.
With my high hopes
I failed my friends.
Rain pouring down,
creature unknown
that brought us doom.
Now I am left to talk to myself.
What now to do? Sit down or play?
But the doom came: Forever stay.

[The Might]

I'll go ahead and take Balin.

We left our homes - Erebor
for the new lands. - Moria
With my high hopes - reconquer it
I failed my friends. - died because of him
Rain pouring down, - filled the pool up to the Hollin gate
creature unknown - Watcher in the Water
that brought us doom. - killed Óin and prevented them from escaping that way
Now I am left to talk to myself. - killed while alone near Mirrormere
What now to do? Sit down or play?
But the doom came: Forever stay. - the Orcs were coming, he was entombed in the Chamber of Mazarbul

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

No, not what I had in mind. There are bits in your explanation that would be kinda... forced (like the thing with the rain, and also "Now I am left to talk to myself" is obviously a conclusion of something, while Balin chose for himself to go to Mirrormere, he was not left to do it or anything like that, or at least it's not said in the books. Also you didn't explain the "sit down" part). Keep trying :)

[Gil-Galad]

Smeagol/Gollum

We left our homes - hobbits were mirgrating
for the new lands. - to good ol' hobbiton
With my high hopes - to escape the wars
I failed my friends. - killed his cousin and shamed his family
Rain pouring down,
creature unknown - smeagol became an unknown creature
that brought us doom. - the Ring (and you put us in it)
Now I am left to talk to myself. - became a schizo
What now to do? Sit down or play? - nothing much to do when your alone under a cave
But the doom came: Forever stay. - ring drove him to kill himself

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Unfortunately, Gil, not the correct answer. And your intepretation is also very leaky. Once again, I believe all the parts of the riddle should be quite clearly possible to identify with the books (without necessarily forced interpretations).

[Rumil]

Glad to see Riddles is active again,

Hmm Legate, I think I might have it...

We left our homes - Ered Luin, 21st April, 100 years ago last Thursday
for the new lands. - Erebor
With my high hopes - for gold and revenge upon Smaug
I failed my friends. - wandered from their camp
Rain pouring down, - a 'black rain'
creature unknown - yup, still unknown
that brought us doom. - well, me anyway
Now I am left to talk to myself. - my companions and RING taken from me
What now to do? Sit down or play? - witless and wandering, map-and-key games?
But the doom came: Forever stay. - in the dungeons of the Necromancer

So that means its Thrain (the Second if we're being pedantic);)


Cheers

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Cheers, Rumil! Glad to see you around. A very inventive interpretation, for sure. But I must say
that it
is
not
correct.

:D

Mwa ha ha ha...

But keep trying. Don't forget that for Thráin, Erebor was not "new lands". It was "old lands reconquered", which is quite different. The same goes for the above attempt with Balin.

[Rumil]

Aha, methinks false trails have been laid!

Will have to think again,

nice one Legate!

[Shards of Narsil]

Hey Legate,

It has been month. Maybe a small tidbit to keep this thing going?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, yes, could be... hmm... do you have any particular idea what kind of hint should I give? Because I can't stumble upon anything right now :)

Well, I can advise you - forget the first three lines and think about them as the last thing. Focus on the second part.

[Thinlómien]

Could it be Maglor?

We left our homes
for the new lands. - obvious, Noldor left Aman

With my high hopes
I failed my friends. - erm... he wished to survive of the oath more peacefully then his brothers

Rain pouring down,
creature unknown
that brought us doom. - hmm... ok, no comments, I'm sure it could mean something, but I don't just feel like torturing my brain anymore :D

Now I am left to talk to myself.
What now to do? Sit down or play?
But the doom came: Forever stay. - Maglor's end alone in the shores, "bonded" to the Silmaril he threw to the sea and according to legends, always singing and playing by the seashore.

Any close?

[Gil-Galad]

Durin the Deathless?

We left our homes
for the new lands.

- dwarves leaving the belegost and nogrod for moria.

With my high hopes
I failed my friends.

- dwarves was adamant against sauron, but in the end they excluded everyone around them and focused on themselves and their greed


Rain pouring down,
creature unknown
that brought us doom.

- the sleeping Balrog that drove the dwarves out.


Now I am left to talk to myself.
What now to do? Sit down or play?
But the doom came: Forever stay.

- called Durins Bane, forever etched in the minds of all dwarves.

Durin the Deathless includes every Durin due to his name, and with that they each experienced the rise and fall of moria.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I must disappoint you - neither of your answers is correct. Lommy, I suggest you try to rack your brain a little more to find an explanation even for the rain part ;) Gil, your interpretations are sometimes very... forced, and you certainly don't provide any interpretation for the "rain pouring down" part. That is no poetic filler to make a rhyme or anything like that. In fact, I suggest focusing more on the "rain pouring down" verse than on the "we left our homes" part - the explanation of the home-leaving is far, far less apparent, I believe.

But don't let that bring you down - keep trying :)

[Dimturiel]

Could it be Turin?


We left our homes
for the new lands.-Turin being sent from Dor-lomin to Doriath
With my high hopes
I failed my friends.- The kingdom of Nargothrond is destroyed because of his high hopes
Rain pouring down,-it was raining when Nienor arrived near Brethil
creature unknown
that brought us doom.-Glaurung, coming to attack Brethil
Now I am left to talk to myself.
What now to do? Sit down or play?-after Glaurung is killed, Turin debates whether he should seek his kin in Doriath or avoid them so as not to cast his doom upon them
But the doom came: Forever stay.-Mablung brings him the tidings which prove that Nienor was Niniel and Turin kills himself.

I know I must be way off...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, not that bad, but it is not the correct answer. Why the strong emphasis on "we" when we'd be talking about Túrin alone? And the "we" are all the same all the time. In fact, the riddle is pretty consistent. We have the Subject, Its Friends (all subsumed under "we" in the beginning), and Creature Unknown. That's all, and that's all you need to know. And still the whole life story of the subject is caught there, not missing a single important thing.

[Eönwë]

Could it be Beren and Luthien?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And which of them would be the "I"? But no, I can tell you, it's neither of them.

Keep trying. Really, it's very simple. :)

[Gollum the Great]

How's Hurin?


He took off for the battle of Unnumbered Tears,
With his hopes of victory he ultimately failed,
Rain- no idea, creature- shall we say collectively the traitors of the Easterlings
Then he sat for years on that chair by himself,
And then he was set free and had time on his hands
And he found out about the deaths of his children and his wife died, leaving him with practically nothing to live for.

Maybe this is bizarre, but distintelly possible.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Good try, but unfortunately wrong.

The "creature unknown" is quite important there (since it brought "them" doom!), and it is only one creature, really, not any collective label for a group. Also, it was unknown - that's also very, very, very, very important - the Easterlings, after all, were known to the others. Their treachery was unknown (or rather: unforseen; at the moment it really came to be, it of course became, and thus was, known even to the betrayed ones).

[Azaghâl]

[...]

Rain- no idea, [...]The rain part is puzzling indeed. :confused:
I can't think of so many occasions when it rains in any of the books, and none seems to fit with the rest of the riddle.


Oh, yes, could be... hmm... do you have any particular idea what kind of hint should I give? Because I can't stumble upon anything right now :)

[...]Would you maybe tell us which book your riddle is referring to, or would that make it too easy?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The rain part is puzzling indeed. :confused:
I can't think of so many occasions when it rains in any of the books, and none seems to fit with the rest of the riddle.


Would you maybe tell us which book your riddle is referring to, or would that make it too easy?

I think it would; and that itself is a hint :) Indeed, maybe as there are not too many, you may try to think about situations when it rains in the books. Write these occassions down or something and then try if the rest would fit with them. This one would fit!

[Azaghâl]

Legate, I hope you're still around because I think I have it. :smokin:

We left our homes
for the new lands.
With my high hopes
I failed my friends.'What the 'ell William was a-thinkin' of to bring us into these parts at all, beats me - and the drink runnin' short, what's more,'


Rain pouring down,Then the rain began to pour down worse than ever, and Oin and Gloin began to fight.


creature unknown
that brought us doom.'A burrahobbit?' said they a bit startled.


Now I am left to talk to myself.
What now to do? Sit down or play?
But the doom came: Forever stay.William never spoke for he stood turned to stone as he stooped; and Bert and Tom were stuck like rocks as they looked at him.



If that is not correct, then I will ask for a hint. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yay!!! Finally! Wonderful, Azaghal, you have accomplished what many attempted but could not do! Fantastic! Congratulations to you! And you may now take the thread and give us something of your production for exchange :)

[Azaghâl]

Thanks for the compliments, Legate. Here's what I could come up with:

Once an ambassador in the North,
I held briefly one of the three in my hand,
A mere warrior when tears were shed uncounted,
Twice a bearer of fateful news,
Twice as a warden I failed.


Hope this is not too easy, also please bear with a non-native English speaker. :)

[Nerwen]

Mablung?

Once an ambassador in the North, –he was one of the messengers Thingol sent north to the Feast of Reuniting.

I held briefly one of the three in my hand, – he cut the Silmaril from Carcharoth's body and passed it to Beren.

A mere warrior when tears were shed uncounted, –he fought in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears.

Twice a bearer of fateful news, –he brought Thingol and Melian the news of Carcharoth's onslaught and the news that Morwen and Nienor were lost.

Twice as a warden I failed. –He failed to keep Carcharoth or the Dwarves of Nogrod out of Doriath.

[Azaghâl]

Well done, Nerwen. Maybe it was too easy after all. Only nitpick: the fateful news I had in mind were about the arrival of Carcharoth which led to Beren's death, and the news about Nienor leading to Turin's death.

Also, the failures as a warden I had in mind were his death before the gates in Menegroth at the hand of the Dwarves, and his failure to keep Morwen and Nienor safe. This last one may be my fault as I am not sure wether "warden" is the proper word when applied to people, or is only correct for places (like I said English is not my first language).

Anyway, the thread is yours, Nerwen. :)

[Nerwen]

Also, the failures as a warden I had in mind were his death before the gates in Menegroth at the hand of the Dwarves, and his failure to keep Morwen and Nienor safe.

It occurred to me that you might mean that, but I went with his failure to prevent assaults on Doriath, because "warden" tends to be used in the sense of someone in charge of a place... though it isn't clear-cut.

Okay, now I have to think up a riddle. I am terrible at this.:(

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed you are. It's been two and half months and you still couldn't come up with anything. Unbelievable.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think Nerwen has alltogether forsaken the quiz room

[Thinlómien]

I think Nerwen has alltogether forsaken the quiz roomIf you're worried, you could always PM her... ;)

[The Might]

In a heroic attempt to revive the Quiz Room, The Might returns on a shiny Dragon he was able to buy with money he made of the latest financial crisis. So after a lot of deals with corrupt businessmen he now feels strong enough to announce the next riddle:

A term of address, simple in sense
Fairly normal, without any glance
To a great explorer once given
By his father who had just seen'em.

You have 48 hours. :D

[Thinlómien]

I think at least I need a hint. ;)

[The Might]

Well, a bigger hint then I should probably give: Númenor

[Beregond]

I'm convinced this has something to do with Aldarion and his father Meneldur; but I think you need a more specific answer? :)

[The Might]

Yes, that is true, now you need to tell me the term used.
You of course must realise that I cannot really give any more hints now. :D

[Beregond]

I do not think I will ever remember without looking in the book. It's been too long since I read it. Good riddle!

[Beregond]

Are you looking for "King"? As in Tar-Aldarion , King of Numenor?

[The Might]

It's "normal, without glance".

Nothing like "The Awesome" or "The Great" or even "King".

EDIT: your answer just made me think of an Elvis-like Aldarion. :D

[The Might]

Still no luck? Then think about family ties.

[Beregond]

Could you possibly mean "son"?

[The Might]

:D Yes! And the Elvish for it would be...

[Eönwë]

Onya?

[The Might]

Correct! Take it away, sir! :)

[Rumil]

Where's Eonwe?

I'm riddle-deprived :p

[Eönwë]

I'm sorry. You can take it if you want.

[skip spence]

I attempted a little riddle. Hope no-one minds me jumping in (or my awkward rhymes)...

Winged sun first light did greet
Flowers sprang beneath his feet
But despite all his valour and might
Bright day turned into blackest night

The weight I carried was no longer there
A burden too heavy for me to bear

[Rumil]

Hi Skip,

nice one,

could it be Fingolfin?

Winged sun first light did meet,
Flowers sprang beneath his feet -when the sun first rose ovee the host of Noldor
But despite all his valour and might,
Bright day turned into blackest night, - of the duel of Fingolfin and Morgoth

The weight I carried was no longer there
A burden too heavy for me to bear - guilt over the kinslaying, or the weight of Morgoth's big boot?

[skip spence]

Close, but no cigar, Rumil.

The first four lines do refer to Fingolfin though.

[Rumil]

Aha,

tis clear now, surely Rochallor, Fingolfin's mighty steed?

The burden being the High King himself

(I guess Rochallor was fortunate that Forlong wasn't his master!)

[skip spence]

You got it!

Well done good sir. I will not eat you now. :)

[Rumil]

Cheers Skip,

Well done good sir. I will not eat you now.

not sure whether to be relieved or worried:eek:

Ok, so here goes--

I met the merry travellers,
tale-weaving ravellers,
On word of the deceivers,
lying, spying reivers.
Took them with no tumult,
just ridicule and insult.
Questioned by an old friend,
hope they'll bring it to an end.
Next day all marching,
footsore, hot and parching.
Missing the old Dragon's lair,
days of old without a care.
If I steal off like a cat,
I'll go home and change my hat.

Should't be too tricksy!

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm guessing Bilbo

he met the Dwarves, took on the spiders by taunting and insulting... questioned by Gollum, or Thorin, anyway

I say Bilbo

[Rumil]

but... 'fraid not Morsul,

[skip spence]

Off the top of my head I'm guessing Beorn.

[Rumil]

Hi Skip,

'fraid not Beorn, the answer is reasonably obscure!

As with Legate's riddles all the lines mean something (though the last is a bit speculative;))

Best of luck,

[Erendis]

Mmmmmm..........
Gandalf perhaps?

[skip spence]

Not feeling too confident about this after my previous very hasty guess but I reckon it's worth a shot.

I met the merry travellers,
tale-weaving ravellers,
On word of the deceivers,
lying, spying reivers.

I guess this could be referring to when Frodo and company catch up with Saruman on the way back to the Shire.

Took them with no tumult,
just ridicule and insult.
Questioned by an old friend,
hope they'll bring it to an end.
He is questioned by Gandalf but answers with insults.
Next day all marching,
footsore, hot and parching.
Missing the old Dragon's lair,
days of old without a care.
I bet Ortanc was pretty comfy, as far as lairs go...
If I steal off like a cat,
I'll go home and change my hat.
Ihe incident in Fangorn, perhaps?

[Rumil]

Hi both,

nope, not Gandalf, nor Saruman,

remember 'obscure' !

though one of Skip's explanations is more-or-less correct ;)

[Thinlómien]

Merry?

I met the merry travellers,
tale-weaving ravellers,
On word of the deceivers,
lying, spying reivers.Meeting Frodo, Sam and Pippin in Crickhollow, hearing their tale and also a reference to the conspiracy.

Next day all marching,
footsore, hot and parching.
Missing the old Dragon's lair,
days of old without a care.
If I steal off like a cat,
I'll go home and change my hat.Well obviously going on an adventure and missing the Green Dragon, and a reference to what Bilbo says about hats to Merry and Pip.

But the middle part
Took them with no tumult,
just ridicule and insult.
Questioned by an old friend,
hope they'll bring it to an end.remains unsolved. *shakes head* Ah well, maybe someone got inspired by this and will get the right answer...

[Rumil]

Nice ideas Lommy,

again, some details right, but it's not Merry,

remember- obscure - not a major character!

Carry On!

[Erendis]

Fat Bolger?

[Rumil]

Hi Erendis,

nope, not Fatty B, even more obscure!!

Cheers,

Rumil

[Beregond]

Just to confirm: this is from LotR or The Hobbit, right? :)

It is very tricksy indeed.

[Rumil]

Hi Beregond,

its from LoTR,

Lommy and Skip have got some bits right,

is that enough clues for now?

:D

[Mnemosyne]

Robin Smallburrow?

Or if not, one of the Shirriffs who "arrested" the Travellers on their return to the Shire. ^_^

Yeah, I'd miss the Dragon, too.

[Beregond]

Ahhhh, beat me to it, Mnemo! Though I'm not sure about the hat reference...

[Mnemosyne]

Shirriffs have a feather in their cap to denote their office.

[Rumil]

Hi Mnemosyne,

Hurrah !!

Cock-Robin it is,

I met the merry travellers,
tale-weaving ravellers,

Merry, Pippin and Sam sat at their ease, laughing, talking and singing

On word of the deceivers,
lying, spying reivers.

There's a few as does spy-work..... "Ah, so that's how you had news of us"

Took them with no tumult,
just ridicule and insult.

Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to punch his pimply face etc

Questioned by an old friend,
hope they'll bring it to an end.

Hey, come here Robin Smallburrow

If we all got angry together something might be done

Next day all marching,
footsore, hot and parching.

At the Three-Farthing stone they gave it up

Missing the old Dragon's lair,
days of old without a care.

You used to like the inside of an inn

If I steal off like a cat,
I'll go home and change my hat.

OK, this is the speculative bit, Robin disliked the Chief etc and the Shirrifs later took off their hat-feathers and joined the revolt.


Your turn now Mnem...

[Beregond]

Very nice riddle, I must say! :)

[Mnemosyne]

Your turn now Mnem...

Ugh, no pressure or anything... especially after that last gem.

May be a while as my pate is addled but I'll try to have something up on Saturday.

[skip spence]

Ah it's all over... Had a feeling the travellers were the returning Hobbits as there isn't exactly a surplus of what could be called 'merry travellers' in Tolkien's books.

Well done Mnemosyne, and Rumil for penning the wriddle!

[Erendis]

Congratulations Mnemosyne!


Sorry for doing this before you Mnemy,but I won't have time the dark days that come....:smokin:As for the rest of you,guys,show compassion,for this is my first time!

So,here it is:


About me,everything 's a riddle.
Various versions gives the myth.
My fathers would have slished a niddle
and the one's life ends in grief.

I just provide you with illusion,
though my intention is so pure.
I seek not to cause you confusion;
instead,I'm said to bring the cure.

Of love to light,to green,to nature,
the least praise I recept is ''fine''.
Yet still,I might not be the only,
nor the name I have is fully mine.

[Mnemosyne]

The Elessar?

(And no worries about jumping in; I'm even more swamped than I thought I was and I'd rather not put this thread on hiatus for a week)

[Erendis]

Aaaaahhhhhh,I must therefore kill myself!(yet I can't because I 'm already in the 'Downs,right?:D)
What can I say?Bravo Mnemy!

[Mnemosyne]

Is either going to be ridiculously hard or ridiculously easy... or neither...

The greatest of all characters,
Created, I sustain.
For without me the memories
Of all the rest would wane.
My name and form throughout the years
Have changed to suit the Age,
But who am I inside has e’er
Remained—the weaving sage.
I keep all of my secrets locked
Within my body whole,
But break my back and I will yield
The workings of my soul.
I’ll be your true and constant friend,
Though many friends have I,
And though I perished long ago,
I shall never die.

[Rumil]

Hi Mnem,

Middle Earth itself?

-greatest of all characters, changes with the ages, gone but lasts forever???

-well OK its a first guess!

[Mnemosyne]

Nope, although I like the cosmic-ness of your guess. ^_^

[Rumil]

Aha, good one Mnem,

(and I shall treasure being accused of cosmicness ;))

Will have to put my thinking cap on and no mistake,

[Annunfuiniel]

I'm tempted to say Gandalf - so I say Gandalf. ;)

[Mnemosyne]

And Gandalf, alas, is wrong.

Not that the fellow himself is wrong, mind, in fact, he's quite right most of the time; but the guess is incorrect.

[Eönwë]

Is it... The Red Book?

[skip spence]

Just read the riddle and came to same conclusion as Eönwe did: it's a book surely.

The book perhaps? The first book, the invention of the book...

[Mnemosyne]

Eonwe's got it. Excellent work; I'm sure now that everyone knows the answer I won't need to parse the riddle...

Or I'm just lazy...

[Rumil]

Bump..

Eonwe,

go on, riddle it up my friend, you know you want to!

[Morsul the Dark]

BUMP! OW! my elbow..:(

[Eönwë]

Erm... I'm sorry about that. Someone else can take the thread if they want.

[Morsul the Dark]

Age unknown, yet I am aged
No food needed, yet I feed
No ears have I, yet I listen to music
When I'm angered, I'm given a pillow

[Rumil]

Hi Morsul,

glad to see you've got this thread running again.

Really nice riddle, requiring lots of hmm-ing and ha-ing but I think I have it!

The Barrow-Wight-

Age unknown, yet I am aged - obviously no spring chicken ;)
No food needed, yet I feed - on unwary hobbits?
No ears have I, yet I listen to music - well, a skull has no ears, and the tune of 'Ho! Tom Bombadil, Tom Bombadillo'
When I'm angered, I'm given a pillow - Threw me for a bit until I remembered Tom's previous encounter with the wight in 'Adventures'...

Go back to grassy mound on your stony pillow
lay down your bony head, like Old Man Willow

Nice one!

[Morsul the Dark]

very good sir you may proceed

[Rumil]

Give me but 24 hr,


still mourning t6he Saffies defeating the Lions

(not entireky sober)

[Morsul the Dark]

Give me but 24 hr,


still mourning t6he Saffies defeating the Lions

(not entireky sober)

Still drunk? Bump!;)

[Rumil]

Ah, recovered now!

(though I don't entirely recall making that post ;))

erm yeah, in a bit, honest!

[Rumil]

Here we go Morsul,

what will you make of this one?

I sleep and wait, I wait and sleep,
here within the shadows deep.
I watch the stars turn overhead,
t'ween branches dark and leaves unshed.
The old grey stone is at my back,
my time is long but life I lack.
Still tall am I, of noble mien,
but old and grey and weak I deem.
Years from now my wait will end,
and I will words of wisdom lend,
to carefree folk with open faces,
that dare to seek forbidden places.
When I've said my say, well that's my time,
but it's not for them, or for their line.

Cheers

[Morsul the Dark]

sleep and wait, I wait and sleep,
here within the shadows deep.
I watch the stars turn overhead,
t'ween branches dark and leaves unshed.
The old grey stone is at my back,
my time is long but life I lack.
Still tall am I, of noble mien,
but old and grey and weak I deem.
Years from now my wait will end,
and I will words of wisdom lend,
to carefree folk with open faces,
that dare to seek forbidden places.
When I've said my say, well that's my time,
but it's not for them, or for their line.

Clever sir, hopefully I am more clever...

is it Galadriel's mirror?

[Rumil]

Hi Morsul,

nope! :D

Though co-incidentally I must say Galadriel's mirror does fit reasonably well when I look at it again. Tall maybe, but of noble mien.... not so applicable.

Nice, nearly 2 for the price of one,

Guess again,

[Morsul the Dark]

the only other thing coming to mind is...

The tree of isildur... but that seems wrong...

[Rumil]

Hi Morsul,

no, not the Tree,

I guess it might help if I admitted the 'life I lack' is not 100% literal,

Cheers,

[Morsul the Dark]

see now
i;m thinking the king of mirkwood....

[Rumil]

No, 'fraid not Morsul,

you'll find the answer somewhere in LoTR (how's that for a clue!)

Happy cogitation,

Rumil

[Hakon]

This probably one of the worst guesses so far. I think it might be Glorfindel.

[Rumil]

Hi Hakon,

no, not Glorfindel, I'm sure he was of noble mien, but I don't deem him old, grey and weak ;)

Try again!

[Morsul the Dark]

Certain parts jump out... but don't make sense altogether.. for example Thedoen seems to fit a lot.... but not all of it yet until I think of something out, I'll say

Theoden

[Rumil]

Hi Morsul,

not Theoden I'm afraid,

(though you are getting 'warmer')

[Eönwë]

Is it the Argonath?

[Rumil]

Hi Eonwe,

nope, not the Argonath, though some lines do fit well, but not all of them!

Cheers

R

[Hakon]

Not all lines fit this, but I think it might work. Is it Treebeard?

[Rumil]

Hoom, hooom, hmmm,


hmmm

Haaaaakonn,


hmmmmm


hooom


No

sorry, not Treebeard, though a fair bit does fit except 'weak'

;)

[Mnemosyne]

Durin in the Mirrormere? Not exactly tall by our standards, but by a dwarf's or a hobbit's...

Then again, checking the canon, it looks as if it's his crown, not he himself.

[Rumil]

Hi Mnem,

nope, not Durin, or any of the other Durins

(not tall - though perhaps he was a tall chap as Dwarves go?)

off topic - but was Durin's Crown the stars visible in daytime or three of the Misty Mountain snowy peaks??

Guess away all, will check back tomorrow,

R

[Mnemosyne]

Stars visible in daytime, as far as I can tell.

Darn, there was a gray stone there and everything.

[Morsul the Dark]

I thought of the argonath too....lol

Hmm...

let us see Gollum? no not at all... Faramir.... no.... Ah! but Boromir?....no no grey stone.... Beorn... thinking.....

Beorn?

[Hakon]

Beorn is not weak. It can't be him.

[Morsul the Dark]

I know... But I'm finding answers that fit Most of the clues but not all of them... and also it's apparently someone from LOTR not the Hobbit, so that's why it's wrong though I'm sure you have a better answer to put forward?

[Hakon]

Is it Denethor?

[Rumil]

Evenin' all,


time for Riddle-Roundup-


so,


from the top....


Morsul- you're quite correct in that-


no its not Gollum


not Faramir either


neither is it Boromir


But as for Beorn.....


Nope, not him!


Oh, and Hakon-


its not Denethor either!


And you will indeed find the answer in LoTR.

May your riddling re-commence

[Eönwë]

I was thinking it might be the Barrow-Wights or the Dead Men of Dunharrow, but then "t'ween branches dark and leaves unshed"?

Hmmm... this requires more thought.

[Rumil]

Hi Eonwe,

not right but

getting warmer......

[Hakon]

Hmm. I almost said the Barrow Wight earlier. Maybe it is the Witch King, no he is not weak same with Sauron. Is it Tom Bombadil? I thought of him earlier but he does not lack life nor is he weak. Hmmm. Is it Aragorn or Gandalf?

[Rumil]

Hi Hakon,

er..

Hmm. I almost said the Barrow Wight earlier. - no
Maybe it is the Witch King, - no
no he is not weak same with Sauron. -you are correct, it's not Sauron either
Is it Tom Bombadil? - no
I thought of him earlier but he does not lack life nor is he weak. - quite
Hmmm. Is it Aragorn - no
or Gandalf? -no

There you go, six for the price of one ;)

The answer is an obscure one, in no way a major character,

Happy riddling....

R

[Morsul the Dark]

Wait a minute.... oo oo oo!

Theodred? Thoden's son?

[Rumil]

Fraid not Morsul,

Guess on!

[Eönwë]

Is it one of the Two Watchers at Cirith Ungol? (But actually, again, there is that tree thing)

[Rumil]

Hi Eonwe,

nope not the Watchers, you were closer last time ;)

Rumil

[Hakon]

If Eonwe was closer last time, does that mean it is one of the like wraiths/undead of the story? Is it the Mouth of Sauron?

[Rumil]

Hi Hakon,

not the Mouth either ;)

with reference to Eonwe's earlier guess, think geographically...

(That's shockingly indiscreet, I'm sure I've given it away now!)

[Pitchwife]

Is it by any chance the mysterious old man who sat on the threshold to the Paths of the Dead and mysteriously died after telling Brego and his son Baldor that the way is shut?

[Rumil]

Well done Pitchwife,

Eonwe was so nearly there but you squeezed in and got it,

Would you care to explain the lines before you post your Riddle or should I?

All the best,

Rumil

[Morsul the Dark]

Is it by any chance the mysterious old man who sat on the threshold to the Paths of the Dead and mysteriously died after telling Brego and his son Baldor that the way is shut?

you know what sucks? I thought of that on the way to work this morning:mad:

Oh well too late GO Pitchwife!:D

[Pitchwife]

Thanks, Rumil! Here's my explanation:

I sleep and wait, I wait and sleep,
here within the shadows deep.
I watch the stars turn overhead,
t'ween branches dark and leaves unshed.
- Well, he must have sat there for quite a while (centuries, millennia?) beneath the black trees of the Dimholt.
The old grey stone is at my back,
- i.e. the Door to the Paths of the Dead
my time is long but life I lack.
- spending several centuries in suspended animation, it would seem.
Still tall am I, of noble mien,
but old and grey and weak I deem.
- 'tall and kingly he had been, but now he was withered as an old stone.'
Years from now my wait will end,
- when the Rohirrim come to Harrowdale,
and I will words of wisdom lend,
to carefree folk with open faces,
- i.e. Bregor and Baldor,
that dare to seek forbidden places.
- i.e. the Paths of the Dead.
When I've said my say, well that's my time,
- because he died after saying his say
but it's not for them, or for their line.
- as Baldor found out at the cost of his life. It was for Aragorn, centuries later again.

Great riddle, by the way! I've always found this one of the most intriguing passages in LotR - we never get to know who the old man was, how long he had been sitting there or what he was doing there in the first place. About as much an enigma (although in a different way) as the secret identity of Tom Bombadil!

And honestly, I didn't really 'squeeze in' - I guessed it more or less on first sight 2 or 3 days ago but hesitated to post the answer because I didn't (and still don't) have any idea for a new riddle. So bear with me, everybody, this is going to need some time.
(Morsul, sorry to frustrate you! I'd actually like to let you take the thread, if you've got sth up your sleeve, but my wife says that's 'chickening out', so you'll just have to wait.)