Riddles in the Downs

[Huinesoron]

I love you, Riddle Thread!

... oh, you meant something more than that, didn't you, Urwen?

They seek him here
They seek him there
Those Hobbits seek him everywhere
Is he in the valley
Or up on the hill?
That danged elusive
[Insert answer here]

hS

[Urwen]

All Hobbits or some Hobbits? Cos Gandalf comes to mind....

Or Tom Bombadil?

[Huinesoron]

All Hobbits or some Hobbits? Cos Gandalf comes to mind....

Or Tom Bombadil?

"That danged elusive Bombadil", for the rhyme. :)

hS

[Urwen]

An old name
For the person connected to flame
People think 'break a leg'
When they recall 'Morleg'
During the battle he was slain
And the truth shall remain plain.

(Even though the riddle is factual, I am still deceiving you. :p)

[Huinesoron]

An old name
For the person connected to flame
People think 'break a leg'
When they recall 'Morleg'
During the battle he was slain
And the truth shall remain plain.

(Even though the riddle is factual, I am still deceiving you. :p)

So, um... is the answer anything other than 'Maeglin'?

hS

[Urwen]

So, um... is the answer anything other than 'Maeglin'?

hS


The answer is 'Morleg', silly. It says so right in the riddle.


But I suppose that, if you want to be pedantic, FoG can also be the answer, as could 'the individuals whose name is reviled'.

[Huinesoron]

The answer is 'Morleg', silly. It says so right in the riddle.

Um... true. :eek:

But I suppose that, if you want to be pedantic, FoG can also be the answer, as could 'the individuals whose name is reviled'.

Argh, I should have dug up some of the dozen ways Tolkien tried to name him after a metal and replied with one of those. That would've been clever.

hS

[Urwen]

Um... true. :eek:



Argh, I should have dug up some of the dozen ways Tolkien tried to name him after a metal and replied with one of those. That would've been clever.

hS


Well, he was a metalworker.....

[Urwen]

Your go, should you want it.

[Urwen]

You up for making one?

[Huinesoron]

You up for making one?

Thinking on it. Will try to post one tonight.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Okay, let's go back to this style:

I know that there was once a time
He gave his love to me,
But I lost him to the sword,
Then lost him to the Sea.
He took my heart out with him
And left our child with me.
Now I languish in the haven.
Who am I?
And who is he?

hS

[Urwen]

Sorry for leaping in, but it screams Erendis and Aldarion. :D

[Huinesoron]

Sorry for leaping in, but it screams Erendis and Aldarion. :D

It does indeed.

... but it's not them. :D

hS

[Urwen]

So he is connected to both the sword and the sea? I know Hurin perished in the sea and Turin perished by the sword, but not both. Tar-Miriel also perished in the sea, but she is not 'he'.

Feanor and Nerdanel could fit, except he never left any of their children with her (unless you count HoME, where one of the twins burned with the ships and was presumably reborn).

Yeah, that sounds plausible, so is it them?

[Huinesoron]

So he is connected to both the sword and the sea?

I can confirm that he is.

I know Hurin perished in the sea and Turin perished by the sword, but not both. Tar-Miriel also perished in the sea, but she is not 'he'.

Perishing in the Sea is a good thought to follow.

Feanor and Nerdanel could fit, except he never left any of their children with her (unless you count HoME, where one of the twins burned with the ships and was presumably reborn).

Yeah, that sounds plausible, so is it them?

Alas, it is not. (Even if I did count HoME, I'd assume Amrod-or-Amras was still a Kinslayer, and still under the Doom of Mandos, so not likely to be reborn for a long time.)

I'll mention that I've made a slight assumption, in that the speaker is not explicitly said to be alive at the time they would have to be speaking the riddle. (Nor are they in any way implied to be dead, and the timeline makes sense for them to be alive.)

hS

[Urwen]

Apart from Hurin and Zimraphel, the only one who perished in the sea is Amroth, and Nimrodel is implied to still be alive. But there is no child mentioned in their tale.

[Urwen]

Wait, the speaker might not be a person.....

[Urwen]

Maybe it's Nienor and Turin. I know that Turin took his own life with a sword, and later the sea swallowed Beleriand.....but Tol-Morwen remained, so that can't be it.

[Huinesoron]

Apart from Hurin and Zimraphel, the only one who perished in the sea is Amroth, and Nimrodel is implied to still be alive. But there is no child mentioned in their tale.

It's not, and you're not right about them being the only ones who died in the Sea.

Wait, the speaker might not be a person.....

I can tell you that it is. :)

Maybe it's Nienor and Turin. I know that Turin took his own life with a sword, and later the sea swallowed Beleriand.....but Tol-Morwen remained, so that can't be it.

Nope. Bear in mind that 'I languish in the haven' has to be after 'I lost him to the Sea'.

hS

[Urwen]

I found another who perished at sea, and who happened to have a wife.

[Urwen]

Firiel and Arvedui or Elwing and Earendil.

[Huinesoron]

Firiel and Arvedui or Elwing and Earendil.

I am Firiel, and he is Arvedui Last-King. It seems entirely reasonable to think that Firiel would have travelled to the haven at Imladris with her son while her husband was on the run.

Over to you.

hS

[Urwen]

May I steal this style for my next few riddles?

[Urwen]

While I wait for you to answer my question, here is one for you

A brave fighter was he
He followed orders faithfully
It almost cost him his life
But he was saved, fortunately

A fair maiden was she
Though no less noble than he
She remained true till the end
A terrible foe fell at her hand

Forgotten land, fair and free
Lost because of envy and greed
A land of beauty, taken in the flood
That's the western part of my blood

In the North, there dwelt fighters at heart
Who were both fierce and proud
In the great victory they played their part
That's the northern part of my blood

[Galadriel55]

He is Faramir and she is Eowyn. What I can't figure out is who is the speaker. Elboron, their child?

[Urwen]

He is Faramir and she is Eowyn. What I can't figure out is who is the speaker. Elboron, their child?

Yes, Elboron.

[Huinesoron]

May I steal this style for my next few riddles?

Oh, um, yes, go for it. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Oh, um, yes, go for it. :)

hS


Somehow, I don't think you really mean it, so I won't.

[Huinesoron]

Somehow, I don't think you really mean it, so I won't.

Just faintly baffled, is all. I originally came up with the style as a way to let the women of Middle-earth finally get a word in edgeways (Tolkien's women are brilliant characters, but they don't get a lot of page time), but that's purely my own little hobby; I didn't expect the style itself to be at all popular. By all means, go for it.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Was flipping though text looking for ideas and nearly started another reread. Whoops. Gotta be careful when approaching Tolkien's texts. :D



Taken hostage from my home
Then taken to the South,
I don't excel, I do not roam,
And silence on my mouth.

But comes the time to test my worth,
To right a dreadful wrong,
Because I am returning North
And sing a different song:

An ancient song of fright, and flame,
Or terror, enemies, and stir.
To that old song can you give name?
And to your humble minister?

[Urwen]

There are plenty of character taken hostage: Pippin, Merry, Earendil, Turin, even Frodo.

[Galadriel55]

There are plenty of character taken hostage: Pippin, Merry, Earendil, Turin, even Frodo.

Therefore that is probably not the line you should be focusing on. :smokin:

[Urwen]

Bilbo, with the song being 'The Road Goes Ever On'.?

[Galadriel55]

Bilbo, with the song being 'The Road Goes Ever On'.?

Not Bilbo. How is he "returning North", and in what Southern place has he been? I can see why some lines might suggest Bilbo, but he doesn't fit the entire riddle.

[Urwen]

The Havens? Aren't they to the north of Rivendell?


But if you mean returning, then maybe Sam, Pippin and Merry, returning to the Shire?

[Galadriel55]

But if you mean returning, then maybe Sam, Pippin and Merry, returning to the Shire?

Well, the answer is neither Bilbo, nor Sam, Pippin, or Merry.

[Urwen]

Maedhros?

[Galadriel55]

Maedhros?

Not Maedhros.

If you tell me why you think this is the answer, I will point out what thinking is correct and what is not.

[Urwen]

I am thinking of people who were taken hostages.

[Galadriel55]

I am thinking of people who were taken hostages.

As I already told you, don't. It will be a dead end. Pick at other lines instead.

[Urwen]

Yeah, well, the other lines don't work either, or at least Googling them doesn't. Although the first line of second stanza alludes to Faramir. Also, if no hostages are involved in the riddle, why did you write the line that says they are?

[Huinesoron]

... it's not the Horn of Gondor, is it? Taken from its origin in Rhun to Gondor in the south, then eventually returning north (Rivendell and points south) and being blown by Boromir below Amon Hen.

hS

[Huinesoron]

OH NO WAIT

"Awake! Awake! Fear, fire, foes! Awake!"

You are the Horn of the Mark, taken from Scatha's hoard in defiance of the dwarves, borne South to the Riddermark, gifted to Merry, and ultimately sounding the Horn-call of Buckland.

"Awake!"

hS

[Galadriel55]

Yeah, well, the other lines don't work either, or at least Googling them doesn't. Although the first line of second stanza alludes to Faramir. Also, if no hostages are involved in the riddle, why did you write the line that says they are?

1. I don't make riddles that are meant to be solved by googling.
2. Interesting thought about Faramir, but no. That line is not as specific.
3. I wrote "taken hostage from my home". I also told you that going through a list of people taken hostage will not get you anywhere. Both are true statements. If you want a hint to get you nearer the right answer, stop focusing on hostages. Of course, you don't have to take the hint, but then you might be going in circles for a long time. *shrug*


Edit: crossed with Huey x2

[Galadriel55]

*drumroll*


OH NO WAIT

"Awake! Awake! Fear, fire, foes! Awake!"

You are the Horn of the Mark, taken from Scatha's hoard in defiance of the dwarves, borne South to the Riddermark, gifted to Merry, and ultimately sounding the Horn-call of Buckland.

"Awake!"

hS

Absolutely correct!

[Huinesoron]

*drumroll*

Absolutely correct!

Yay! For a while I was thinking of the Ring, as well, until horns occurred to me.

Okay:

Silver
1 up, 1 across, 1 down == 2 down
Silver

hS

[Urwen]

Silvertine/Celebdil?

[Huinesoron]

Silvertine/Celebdil?

Nope, but I had to think for a second about one of those.

Did you have any reasoning other than 'silver'?

hS

[Urwen]

Well, 1 up sounds like a peak, hence Silver+peak = Silvertine.


And in addition, 1 across = Gandalf crossing the bridge, 1 down = Balrog falling, 2 down = he pulled Gandalf with him, and they ended up on Silvertine.

[Huinesoron]

Well, 1 up sounds like a peak, hence Silver+peak = Silvertine.


And in addition, 1 across = Gandalf crossing the bridge, 1 down = Balrog falling, 2 down = he pulled Gandalf with him, and they ended up on Silvertine.

Interesting! That's some good logic. Not right, I'm afraid, but good.

All of the numbers are describing the same kind of thing.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, the only other answers that come to mind and are connected to Silver are Idril and Boromir's horn. In the 1st case, 1 down could refer to Morleg, and in the second case to Boromir himself.


Nonetheless, Silvertine was so perfect, and the fact it is not right....well.... :eek:

[Huinesoron]

Well, the only other answers that come to mind and are connected to Silver are Idril and Boromir's horn. In the 1st case, 1 down could refer to Morleg, and in the second case to Boromir himself.

Nonetheless, Silvertine was so perfect, and the fact it is not right....well.... :eek:

Idril is half the answer; she is Silver.

But who is Silver?

hS

[Urwen]

Celebrimbor. A certain source mentions that he lived in Gondolin for a time.

[Galadriel55]

I wonder if the directions refer to instructions on a family tree.

If we start with Idril as the first Silver:
1 up are her parents, but as Elenwe's other relations are unknown we are left with Turgon.
1 across is either Fingon or Aredhel.
1 down would be their respective children: Gil-Galad and Maeglin.

But how does 2 down fit it, I am not sure. I thought this would be one of those related-by-multiple-lines things where someone is both a cousin and a cousin once/twice removed, but that doesn't seem to work here.

If Idril is the last Silver, the pathway would still point to a cousin, and the logic still breaks down.

Well, it was worth a try.

[Urwen]

Or we can go that rode.


Idril


Two down becomes two up: Turgon > Fingolfin


One across becomes Finarfin or Feanor


and one down becomes one up, which is Finwe.....

[Huinesoron]

I wonder if the directions refer to instructions on a family tree.

If we start with Idril as the first Silver:
1 up are her parents, but as Elenwe's other relations are unknown we are left with Turgon.
1 across is either Fingon or Aredhel.
1 down would be their respective children: Gil-Galad and Maeglin.

But how does 2 down fit it, I am not sure. I thought this would be one of those related-by-multiple-lines things where someone is both a cousin and a cousin once/twice removed, but that doesn't seem to work here.

If Idril is the last Silver, the pathway would still point to a cousin, and the logic still breaks down.

Well, it was worth a try.

This is exactly the right approach to take, but I didn't mean siblings.

I also didn't write '= 2 down'. I wrote '== 2 down', which has a completely different meaning. :D

hS

[Urwen]

'==' means equal to, according to google

[Urwen]

Wait, I think I have it. Second 'silver' is either Earendil or Elrond/Elros. Hear out my reasoning.

1 up = Turgon
1 across = Elenwe, sitting across from Turgon.
1 down = Idril

then we have 2 down, which is either 2 down from Elenwe, which is Earendil, or 2 down from Idril, which is Elrond/Elros.

[Galadriel55]

1 up = Turgon
1 across = Elenwe, sitting across from Turgon.
1 down = Idril

But doesn't that just take you in a loop from Idril to Idril? :confused:



Ohhhhh... I just had an idea about the ==. :eek: A bit pictographic, eh? But who if not siblings... Gah!

[Galadriel55]

Ok, I can't make this work out properly, so I'll spit it out. Is == supposed to refer to the "married" line on family trees? So someone was married to "2 down"?

Is it one of Galadriel's family? Celeborn or Celebrian? Neither one fits the math perfectly but they are the closest I got.

[Huinesoron]

Ok, I can't make this work out properly, so I'll spit it out. Is == supposed to refer to the "married" line on family trees? So someone was married to "2 down"?

Is it one of Galadriel's family? Celeborn or Celebrian? Neither one fits the math perfectly but they are the closest I got.

And there it is!

Idril
1 up = Turgon
1 across = his cousin, Galadriel
1 down = Celebrian
==, ie married to
2 down from Idril = Elrond son of Earendil son of Idril

So the answers are Idril and Celebrian.

(Originally I remembered them as being a simpler variety of cousin; in hindsight going 3 up, 3 down, via Finwe.)

Over to you!

hS

[Galadriel55]

Yay!

As this answer was a joint effort and I don't have a riddle ready, Urwen, would you like to take the turn?

[Urwen]

Sure.


Once he and I were happy
But duty called him and I was left behind
Ages passed and still I wait
I wait with my dearest ones
At that place
Till our time comes
Who are they *
And who am I?

*(Note: 'they' includes 'he')

[Huinesoron]

Sure.

Once he and I were happy
But duty called him and I was left behind
Ages passed and still I wait
I wait with my dearest ones
At that place
Till our time comes
Who are they *
And who am I?

*(Note: 'they' includes 'he')

Could you be Nerdanel, he Feanor, and they his sons? Nerdanel is waiting in the place Feanor left her, with her remaining family and possibly at least one son; and Feanor will not come back for many ages according to... Mandos, I think, but it might just be the narrative.

hS

[Urwen]

Nope. Not who I had in mind. The riddle is a bit tricky.

[Urwen]

Need a hint?

[Galadriel55]

Need a hint?

Yes, I do. Some thoughts occur - eg Rosie like Nerdanel saw her boyfriend abandon her to a long quest, but not ttuly ages and other elements don't fit. Then sometimes I think this is an inanimate thing speaking, but again no good candidates to matchh the whole riddle.

[Urwen]

Hint: The speaker is dead, and they and their 'dearest' ones (or at least some of them) wait in the same place for the world to end.

[Galadriel55]

... Morwen? Speaking to Hurin, presumably? Buried beside Turin, and with Nienor's memorial stone?

[Urwen]

Ye.

[Galadriel55]

Yay!

In spirit of reviving ancient things and waking ancient wights, here is a Legate-style riddle. Please explain as much as you can when you answer.

To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest.
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest.

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name.
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim.

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes.
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words.

[Urwen]

Well, I shuffled through Tom Bombadil, Treebeard and Gandalf, but none of them fits the riddle in its entirety.

[Galadriel55]

You are correct in concluding these three names are not the answer. But if you wish for more comments, please provide an explanation of what lead you to each guess.

[Urwen]

Sure. Here are my explanations for each:

Tom
To some, I am but fairy tale, - Not much is really known about Tom
The subject of your jest. - see below
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - He had various adventures

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - Some hobbits have a distaste for all things outside of the Shire, including Tom
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - He does things at his leisure

Relic old from ancient times - Tom is known as the oldest
I guard against all foes. - he doesn't seem to be afraid of anything
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words. - this one I really can't fit here.

Treebeard
To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest. - Ents are not generally known
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - To find the Entwives

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - Some of the Shire-folk did in the first book.
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - He isn't hasty, to be sure.

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes. - He protects the trees
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words. - Saruman's designs

Gandalf
To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest. - To Hobbits, he is primarily known for his tricks and jokes
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - To stop Sauron, which presumably took a long time

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - At least in Gondor and Rohan
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - He comes and goes at his leisure

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes. - It's in his job description
My charge to you revealed designs, - His sojourn with Saruman revealed Saruman's true designs
To others - secret words. - The inscription on the Ring and the one on doors to Moria.

[Galadriel55]

Ok, so here are a few general tips based on those guesses.
1. "You" is the same throughout the riddle. "Others", however, are not.
2. Both the quest and the jest are pretty specific; thus, your answers for Treebeard fit much better here than for Bombadil. Neither is correct though as neither person in the answer.
3. The relic is not the speaker. Read carefully.
4. The last two lines refer to specific events.


See if that helps redirect you a bit.

[Urwen]

So the answer isn't the relic but connected to the relic? And they guard against all foes, as in, all of them? In that case, another answer comes to mind, but....no one mocked them. Except possibly us readers.

[Urwen]

I am beginning to think it might not be a person....

[Galadriel55]

So -
The relic is what the speaker is guarding.
There is a moment when the speaker's tendencies are turned into a joke by people who have no idea of the speaker's true nature.

There are several elements to the riddle, several events that are referenced. If you get one of them, it will be easier to identify the speaker and the rest of the elements. So of the speaker evades you, maube tey to match a specific part of the riddle to a specific event?

[Urwen]

So someone who is guarding an object?

[Urwen]

Maybe Pippin. He is guarding the White Tree and he was often mocked by Gandalf for his dimwittedness.

[Galadriel55]

So someone who is guarding an object?

You can try to solve these words, it's possible to go that way. You can also tackle the riddle from other angles. Or try different approaches simultaneously. Whichever element cracks first will lead you to the rest.

[Galadriel55]

Maybe Pippin. He is guarding the White Tree and he was often mocked by Gandalf for his dimwittedness.

Good thoughts generally, but still lacking the connection to specific things - e.g. specific "quest", specific mocking, and the last two lines are in fog.

[Huinesoron]

If YOU is the same ?person? throughout, then we know that they:

-Treated the speaker as a fairy tale.
-Made a joke about them.
-Tarnished their name with 'slander, mockery, and slur'.
-Had 'designs' revealed to them by one of:
--The speaker's instructions ('I charge you to...')
--The speaker's ward ('He is in my charge')
--The speaker's actions in battle ('CHAAARGE!')
---Which also revealed 'Secret words' to others.
--'Designs' could mean pictures or plans.

No thoughts on who yet, because my only thought was Gandalf. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Maybe the 'endless quest' is guarding that object. Also, I am going to assume it's one of the 'good guys'. Also, relic is defined as tombstone or a tomb.

[Urwen]

Ah, it came to me. It was so obvious.

Right, so....Tilion?

To some, I am but fairy tale,
The subject of your jest. - in a song
To others, few, who know me well,
I took an endless quest. - to protect the flower

With slander, mockery, and slur
You tarnish my good name. - in a song
However, one thing you have gotten sure:
Punctuality's not my claim. - in a song, he overslept

Relic old from ancient times
I guard against all foes. - Telperion's flower, of course
My charge to you revealed designs,
To others - secret words. - The words on Door of Durin is only revealed in moonlight

[Galadriel55]

Excellent answer! :D

Tilion, aka the Man in the Moon, one who is known in truth to be unreliable on his path while chasing Arien but is most certainly not deep in his drink!

His charge, the Moon, revealed the designs on the gates of Moria, as well as the Moon runes on a certain map.

Over to you!

[Urwen]

Time to dig up something obscure, then....

[Urwen]

I stand tall
Arrayed in red
The color of fall
Atop of my head

Come to me, woe-bringer
Come to me and hide
You and your party I'll assist
I let you see far and wide

But beware:
For my master's heart isn't true
And please be aware
That I can't protect you

[Galadriel55]

Amon Rudh, the red mountain, "assisting" Turin&co ?

[Urwen]

Amon Rudh, the red mountain, "assisting" Turin&co ?


And here I thought I could make it sneaky. :smokin:

[Galadriel55]

I have an idea for another Legate-style riddle. But it shall take a couple days. Good riddles need time to brew properly. ;)

[Urwen]

I might try my hand at that style too.

[Galadriel55]

Hmm, this one started in the same style but then ran aeay from me. But I think it's easier than my last one.



I knew the Proud One,
Lived in his house.
He's great but less famous
Than me and my spouse.

Humble I knew not;
My double he knew,
My double the sign-maker
And horse-giver too.

Humble and I were
Imprisoned alike.
He was rescued by friends,
I with shadow took flight.

The Humble and Proud:
Different claims to their fame,
Different race, different days.
But they share a name.




Happy riddling!

[Urwen]

Ah, might as well. Even if it doesn't fit, I'll get some comments which will help at least.


I knew the Proud One,
Lived in his house. -
He's great but less famous
Than me and my spouse. - Less famous than Beren and Luthien

Humble I knew not;
My double he knew,
My double the sign-maker
And horse-giver too. - Well, Arwen is said to be like Luthien;

Humble and I were
Imprisoned alike. - Well, Faramir is pretty humble
He was rescued by friends, - Pippin, Beregond and Gandalf
I with shadow took flight. - She escaped her imprisonment with aid of her hair (the first time) and Huan (the second time); also, Huan could be her 'shadow'.

The Humble and Proud:
Different claims to their fame,
Different race, different days.
But they share a name.

[Galadriel55]

You have some elements right but are missing a good chunk. Can you try to name all the participating characters? And revisit some of the guesses?

[Urwen]

Sure. Luthien is the speaker and Faramir is the 'humble'. The only thing I am missing is the 'Proud', who, if all the pieces should fall into the place, should be Faramir's namesake, but none of his namesakes are 'proud'.

[Galadriel55]

Sure. Luthien is the speaker and Faramir is the 'humble'. The only thing I am missing is the 'Proud', who, if all the pieces should fall into the place, should be Faramir's namesake, but none of his namesakes are 'proud'.

Luthien is correct. Faramir is not.

[Urwen]

Well, the only individuals Luthien knew that could be called 'proud' are Celegorm and her father, and none of them shares a name with anyone.

Unless....

*wanders off to check something*

[Huinesoron]

Well, the only individuals Luthien knew that could be called 'proud' are Celegorm and her father, and none of them shares a name with anyone.

Unless....

*wanders off to check something*

I think I know what you're thinking; if you're not, I've got a guess of my own.

hS

[Urwen]

I think I know what you're thinking; if you're not, I've got a guess of my own.

hS


I bet you don't know what I am thinking at all, for what I am thinking is a name-play of sorts.

[Galadriel55]

I bet you don't know what I am thinking at all, for what I am thinking is a name-play of sorts.

I would caution you against betting such things, because more than one person can solve a riddle. :smokin: What is your guess?

[Urwen]

My guess is a dead end. The possible candidate I had was never rescued.

[Galadriel55]

Guesses do that sometimes. Any other thoughts?

[Urwen]

Well, I thought about Dior and Celegorm, both being called 'Fair', but neither of them was imprisoned. Then I thought about Dior and Elured, both having sobriquets of the same meaning, but while imprisoned, Elured wasn't rescued. Then I thought about Beren, who was both humble and imprisoned, but neither of his two namesakes was prideful, and both of his namesakes are the same race as him.

I feel I am so close, but I can't see it....

[Huinesoron]

Well, I had no idea about the riddle as a whole, but once Urwen got us to the right general area:

'Greycloak' is used as a name for both Luthien's dad (Thingol, Sinda-Collo in the Quenya) and Gandalf (Greyhame). Gandalf was also imprisoned in a high place, like Luthien - and rescued by his buddies Radagast and Gwaihir.

It's a shame the structure of the riddle didn't let you mention that they both knew Gwaihir, come to think of it. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Well, guess I will have to try harder for the right to unleash my masterpiece. But fret not, you will have a hard time solving it when I do.

[Galadriel55]

Indeed! :) The speaker is Luthien, her double is Arwen. Proud is Thingol Greycloak / Greymantle, and Humble is Gandalf Greyhame / Greymantle / other forms of grey attire.

Did Gwaihir appear in the First Age? :confused: I thought Thorondor took all the lead roles there.

Anyways, the riddle was solved very much by a group effort, Urwen identifying the female half and Huey the male half of the characters. Huey had the final explanation, but of course it wouldn't have been possible without Urwen's contributions. I think officially it goes to Huey but I wanna give Urwen a big kudos for cracking the first half!

[Urwen]

Please make one soon. :)

[Huinesoron]

Did Gwaihir appear in the First Age? :confused: I thought Thorondor took all the lead roles there.

I believe Christopher removed the fact that Thorondor's chief vassals (eg when rescuing Beren and Luthien) were Gwaihir and Landroval, because he thought it would be confusing.

Anyways, the riddle was solved very much by a group effort, Urwen identifying the female half and Huey the male half of the characters. Huey had the final explanation, but of course it wouldn't have been possible without Urwen's contributions. I think officially it goes to Huey but I wanna give Urwen a big kudos for cracking the first half!

I'm actually going to pass, both because I think Urwen did way more than half of the work (including actually mentioning both Elu and Mithrandir, in the correct halves of the riddle and all!), and because I don't have anything at all in mind. So unless you don't want it, Urwen, it's all yours. :)

hS

[Urwen]

I actually had a Legate-style riddle of my own prepared.


I stood tall for a long time
I saw them in their prime
I witnessed the downfall
And the death of us all

Gone was the joy
Gone was the splendor
But your heart remained true
When they had closed that door

You turned to me
For their own sake
And now, at the end
We'll leave this land

[Galadriel55]

I believe Christopher removed the fact that Thorondor's chief vassals (eg when rescuing Beren and Luthien) were Gwaihir and Landroval, because he thought it would be confusing.

I wonder now, what happened to Thorondor? Where is he in the Third Age? Am I forgetting something from the end of the Sil?

Looking forward to your masterpiece, Urwen!

Edit: crossed with Urwen. Will take a look and a thought at the riddle.

[Galadriel55]

Hmm, Miriel and Meneltarma? Meneltarma being the one that stood tall through Numenor's prime and its downfall. Not sure what the second stanza is, but Tar-Miriel's heart did remain true to the Faithful and their morals. She fled to Meneltarma to plead for the Numenorians, not just to save her own life, but both were drowned by the giant wave.

[Urwen]

Hmm, Miriel and Meneltarma? Meneltarma being the one that stood tall through Numenor's prime and its downfall. Not sure what the second stanza is, but Tar-Miriel's heart did remain true to the Faithful and their morals. She fled to Meneltarma to plead for the Numenorians, not just to save her own life, but both were drowned by the giant wave.


I worked on it for two days and it got cracked in seconds. Guess even the best effort is not enough. Maybe I shouldn't have been so vocal about characters I like....:eek:

[Galadriel55]

I worked on it for two days and it got cracked in seconds. Guess even the best effort is not enough. Maybe I shouldn't have been so vocal about characters I like....:eek:

Or maybe make riddles about a variety of characters? But in any case, that wasn't how I solved the riddle, your liking for Miriel was just confirmatory after I figured it out. It was a constellation of associations that lead me to the Downfall of Numenor, and from there to Meneltarma.

I don't have any ideas ready at the moment. Can I leave the thread open for whoever thinks of something first?

[Urwen]

I don't think it's against the rules, so yea....

[Urwen]

Wanna make one, Huey?

[Huinesoron]

Wanna make one, Huey?

Um, maybe something real quick?

Stand on the mountain
By the way forgot;
The clouds roll over
Grey and lonely spot.
Stone covering fire
When will you spot?

hS

[Urwen]

Fanuidhol?

[Galadriel55]

For some reason this is giving me Book 1 vibes. Trolls? Weathertop?

If I go that way, the forgotten way makes most sense as the Greenway, but that doesn't bring me to an answer.

If I had to formulate a solid guess, it would be Aragorn and the hobbits standing on Weathertop, finding Gandalf's message in the stones.

[Huinesoron]

Fanuidhol?

Nope.

For some reason this is giving me Book 1 vibes. Trolls? Weathertop?

If I go that way, the forgotten way makes most sense as the Greenway, but that doesn't bring me to an answer.

If I had to formulate a solid guess, it would be Aragorn and the hobbits standing on Weathertop, finding Gandalf's message in the stones.

I'm afraid none of this is even close (specificially including, it's not from LotR Book 1).

I will promise the answer is not at all obscure.

hS

[Urwen]

It's a mountain, though? The answer?

Otherwise, I am thinking Narya, Ring of Fire, with a stone on it.

Or maybe Frodo and Sam, standing on a random mountain, gazing at Orodruin, which is literally a stone above fire?

[Huinesoron]

It's a mountain, though? The answer?

The answer is a when, not a where. :) A mountain is involved, though (which... is why it's mentioned in the first line of the riddle, though, I guess).

Otherwise, I am thinking Narya, Ring of Fire, with a stone on it.

Or maybe Frodo and Sam, standing on a random mountain, gazing at Orodruin, which is literally a stone above fire?

Neither of these.

There are no metaphors in the riddle. :)

hS

[Urwen]

The beacons of Gondor being lit?

[Huinesoron]

The beacons of Gondor being lit?

Nope. I assume you're thinking of the Halifirien as being 'by the way forgot'? It's a nice, thought, but no.

Nobody has found the right book yet. :)

hS

[Urwen]

So it is a mountain next to a forgotten road?

[Galadriel55]

Is the answer, perhaps, on Durin's Day?

[Huinesoron]

Is the answer, perhaps, on Durin's Day?

It is. Can you be any more specific? I mean, 24 hours is a long time.

hS

[Urwen]

At dusk, right before the sun falls.

[Huinesoron]

At dusk, right before the sun falls.

Again, yes... there is a specific answer of the form 'When ___ ___ ___' to this riddle. :) (Line lengths are not representative.)

hS

[Urwen]

Well, the only thing I could find was this:


When on this day both the Sun and Moon may be seen in the sky together, it is called Durin's Day. The Moon-letters written on the Thror's Map predicted that on Durin's Day the last light of the Sun as night fell would reveal the secret door into the Lonely Mountain.

[Galadriel55]

How about, when the thrush knocks?

[Huinesoron]

How about, when the thrush knocks?

Correct! This is exactly when you

Stand on the mountain
By the way forgot;
The clouds roll over
Grey and lonely spot.
Stone covering fire

:D

I think this one goes to G55, on balance.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Correct! This is exactly when you

Stand on the mountain
By the way forgot;
The clouds roll over
Grey and lonely spot.
Stone covering fire

:D

Ooohhh! :D


Cheers. Will think of something.

[Galadriel55]

Something simple again:


By charming stream and woodland quaint,
By ancient hills and deathless laiks,
By fruit with golden sheen I dwell.
What am I, who can tell?

[Urwen]

Tom Bombadil?

By charming stream and woodland quaint, - Old Forest and Withywindle
By ancient hills and deathless laiks, - Barrow Downs
By fruit with golden sheen I dwell. - Goldberry
What am I, who can tell?

[Galadriel55]

Indeed, who can tell what Tom B really is? Even the Professor himself might not know. :) Over to you.

[Urwen]

Here is another easy one:

Made by the greater
Wielded by the lesser
I had succeeded
My purpose fulfilled

I came from the place of woe
To destroy the ancient foe
From darkness unto light
To drive back the night

[Pervinca Took]

Is it Merry's barrow-blade?

[Urwen]

Is it Merry's barrow-blade?

Ye.

[Pervinca Took]

OK, then:

Latinate am I
And one of four.
If Huan had devoured me
He'd have quickly reached death's door?

[Urwen]

It's a trick question. Huan can't die, except via Carcharoth.

[Pervinca Took]

That's why I used the conditional mood, and a question mark.

[Galadriel55]

First thought was literal poisons - eg Belladonna. But she is not one of four, and I don't remember hobbit family trees enough to thibk of one who is.

What things are in a set of four? Compass points? Farthings? Seasons? It's not a common Tolkien number.

It would have been interesting if bringing to death's door meant to physocally bring Huan to Thangorodrim or the Black Gate, but based on Pervinca's post above this sounds less likely.

[Pervinca Took]

You were fairly close with Belladonna.

[Urwen]

Spiders?

[Pervinca Took]

No.

[Urwen]

Found it. Primrose Boffin. She has three siblings and is named after a plant toxic to dogs.

[Pervinca Took]

Toxic to dogs is right, and it is a hobbit, but it isn't Primrose Boffin.

3 siblings is right too.

P.S. Besides, the Latin would be Primula! (vulgaris).

[Urwen]

Is it yourself, for the same reasons?

[Pervinca Took]

Pervinca is Latin, means dogsbane, and has 3 siblings.

Yes. :)

[Urwen]

Well, here is a cheeky one:

Three fathers, one mother
That's who I had
I also had a brother
Who is now dead

Daughter of mine
She stayed around
With remnant of line
In the past lost, now found.

[Huinesoron]

Okay, so... being a cheeky one, I guess the answer is not Elrond (the extra fathers being Maedhros and Maglor)?

How about Numenor itself? It came out of the three Houses of the Edain, so could be said to have three fathers (of the fathers of Men). And its daughter is Gondor, which hung around and eventually met up with Aragorn?

Or, indeed, are you Gondor - your brother being Arnor, your fathers being... Elendil, Isildur, and Anarion?

hS

[Urwen]

Okay, so... being a cheeky one, I guess the answer is not Elrond (the extra fathers being Maedhros and Maglor)?
hS

Oh, but it is. The Mr. Grumpypants himself. :smokin:

[Huinesoron]

Water claimed me,
Earth concealed me,
Wind carried me,
Fire consumed me.

hS

[Urwen]

Silmarils? One in earth and fire, one in water, one in the sky?

[Huinesoron]

Silmarils? One in earth and fire, one in water, one in the sky?

Nope. There is only one answer. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Hmmm.....I get One Ring vibes, and everything fits except the third line...

[Huinesoron]

Hmmm.....I get One Ring vibes, and everything fits except the third line...

It is the One Ring - which was carried eagleback when Bilbo needed rescuing from a bunch of goblins and wargs. :D

hS

[Urwen]

I just had an inspiration

Long ago was I made
To guard the dead
In the great flood
I went down with the world

I housed one
Of his, but with me
He found another
They're together forever

[Urwen]

Do you need hints?

[Huinesoron]

Do you need hints?

Umm. My first thought was something Numenorean, but I couldn't get it all to fit together.

That said... Tol Morwen? The main issue is that it's specifically not sunken, but other than that it fits: one of Hurin's family was buried there, and he found Morwen at the stone (and didn't freakin' answer her question, which has always bugged me).

hS

[Urwen]

Tol Morwen is close, but not quite there.

[Huinesoron]

Tol Morwen is close, but not quite there.

Oh. Ohhh. Is it the Ladybarrow? (Forgive me; Sindarin isn't my strong point.) Finduilas was buried there, which makes 'he' Turin... not sure who he found there, though?

hS

[Urwen]

Oh. Ohhh. Is it the Ladybarrow? (Forgive me; Sindarin isn't my strong point.) Finduilas was buried there, which makes 'he' Turin... not sure who he found there, though?

hS


*activates teaching mode* According to the tale, he found Niniel on the grave. *deactivates teaching mode*


You're up.

[Huinesoron]

I passed through one rainbow
To stand beside another.

Nice and short!

hS

[Urwen]

I passed through one rainbow
To stand beside another.

Nice and short!

hS


Tom Bombadil's jacket? :D:p

[Huinesoron]

Tom Bombadil's jacket? :D:p

Corr-- no, wait, not correct. :D

hS

[Urwen]

Okay, serious answer it is.

Tuor, passed through Rainbow Cleft and he stood beside Egalmoth at some point, probably.

[Huinesoron]

Okay, serious answer it is.

Tuor, passed through Rainbow Cleft and he stood beside Egalmoth at some point, probably.

That's the one. (And believe me, I considered using something from the Heavenly Arch for my password!)

hS

[Urwen]

Metal?

[Urwen]

Here is another short one

Blue like the sea
Blue like the sky
When you're around me
There's no reason to cry

[Huinesoron]

Here is another short one

Blue like the sea
Blue like the sky
When you're around me
There's no reason to cry

Definitely Bombadil's jacket. :cool:

hS

[Urwen]

Definitely Bombadil's jacket. :cool:

hS


Ring-a-ding-dillo.

[Huinesoron]

Okay, okay okay, let's try this:

What have roots nobody sees,
Far taller than trees,
Up, up, up they glow,
Yet fell long ago.

hS

[Galadriel55]

The Lamps of the Valar? Illuin and... what was the other one? Ormal?

[Huinesoron]

The Lamps of the Valar? Illuin and... what was the other one? Ormal?

If I wanted to quibble, I could say no, and hold out for the pillars the Lamps were mounted on. But since they're only named in a very early and weird text, I'll allow this. :) (Besides, it was the answer I thought of when I wrote it!)

Over to you.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Thanks! Will have something up shortly. :)

[Galadriel55]

Happy riddling!


I was born in place up high
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust.
And long ahead my road did lie:
I passed the wall, I hid from all.

And many met me on my way:
The one that came by many caves,
The one that washed the grief away,
The one that's dead upon hard bed.

I always yearned towards the sea,
Till in the war I was no more.
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate.

[Urwen]

Tuor again?

I was born in place up high - Mountains of Mithrim
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust.
And long ahead my road did lie:
I passed the wall, I hid from all. - Found Gondolin and stayed there

And many met me on my way:
The one that came by many caves, - Gelmir or Arminas
The one that washed the grief away, - Ulmo
The one that's dead upon hard bed. - Turin or Turgon

I always yearned towards the sea,
Till in the war I was no more. - Left Beleriand with his wife
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate. - Voronwe

[Galadriel55]

That actually fits surprisingly well, but it's not Tuor. And certain things still fit only vaguely - eg "in the war I was no more", and washing grief away. When you hit upon the answer, all the clues will snap into perfect place.

Your thinking is entirely in the correct direction about some of the clues, especially in the first part.

[Galadriel55]

I was born in place up high
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust.
And long ahead my road did lie:
I passed the wall, I hid from all.

And many met me on my way:
The one that came by many caves,
The one that washed the grief away,
The one that's dead upon hard bed.

I always yearned towards the sea,
Till in the war I was no more.
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate.

[Urwen]

Turin perhaps, then? Meeting Gwindor, who fits the second line via the Pools of Ivrin, Nienor, who literally lies upon the river-bed and Gelmir/Arminas who fit the first line for reasons I already gave. He also vanished from the war against Morgoth via his own hand. And I suppose Dor-Lomin is a highland. Also the first stanza is a general interpretation of his life. And the helper is Beleg. The only line that doesn't fit is the yearning for the sea part.

[Galadriel55]

Not Turin.

In both of your guesses, you correctly name 1 element (so a total of 2), but on the wrong lines. Plus your first line interpretation is very close.

[Urwen]

So it's not anyone related to Tuor in any manner?

[Huinesoron]

So it's not anyone related to Tuor in any manner?

If G55 is sticking to her prior form, I don't think it's anyone at all.

hS

[Urwen]

If G55 is sticking to her prior form, I don't think it's anyone at all.

hS


She did say she changes her form once in a while to trip people up, though.

[Urwen]

But if it's so, then maybe Tuor's axe, Dramborleg? It traveled with him and disappeared from war after being taken to Numenor, initially a land of peaceful dwellers.

[Huinesoron]

So... are you SIRION?

I was born in place up high - Eithel Sirion
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust. - The Anfauglith, and Angband (the Hells of Iron)
And long ahead my road did lie: - You're a loooong river
I passed the wall, I hid from all. - You pass through that cave thing at Ramdal (the Long Wall)

And many met me on my way: - Tributaries
The one that came by many caves, - Narog
The one that washed the grief away, - The river that Nienor threw herself into
The one that's dead upon hard bed. - What's the river that comes out of Nan Dungortheb?

I always yearned towards the sea, - Because you're a river.
Till in the war I was no more. - Sirion was destroyed during the War of Wrath
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate. - Probably Earendil, but there's a few people who bopped up and down Sirion.

(And if you are Sirion, does that mean you follow spoken instructions on my phoneon? ^_~)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Yes, indeed. ;) Urwen, your beginning was so close because Sirion is geographically born right next to Mithrim. And you named a couple things Hui's explanation did not, albeit, as I said before, not their intended places. So here is the riddle as I was thinking about it:


I was born in place up high - Eithel Sirion, the Wethrin mountains
Near growth turned to dust, and steel to rust. - near Anfauglith and Haudh-en-Nirnaeth
And long ahead my road did lie:
I passed the wall, I hid from all. - Andram, and disappears underground after the Falls of Sirion

And many met me on my way:
The one that came by many caves, Esgalduin by Menegroth (though Narog fits as well)
The one that washed the grief away, - Teiglin, which carried away Nienor
The one that's dead upon hard bed. - the Dry River

I always yearned towards the sea, - and always flows to it
Till in the war I was no more. - War of Wrath
But while I was, I lead with me
A helper great who aided fate. - Ulmo would channel his power through Sirion to help out, e.g. to hide Turgon's retreat from the Nirnaeth



And without further ado, over to Hui!

[Huinesoron]

Hah, wow, I managed to get almost every specific wrong, didn't I? :rolleyes: Including, embarassingly, the name of Andram (at least I didn't call it Rammas!).

I'll try to get something up later today. The downside of getting the answer is now I have to think of a question!

hS

[Galadriel55]

Hah, wow, I managed to get almost every specific wrong, didn't I? :rolleyes: Including, embarassingly, the name of Andram (at least I didn't call it Rammas!).

Lol. Isn't Ramdal just the east end of Andram? You weren't far off, and in fact I haven't even noticed that when I read your answer. :D

I think the fact that the riddle can be guessed correctly with a different set of specifics is an indication of lack of specificity in the clues, if anything. You did get the answer right and had a fitting explanation. I did not think the clues were this flexible when I wrote them, but I guess Sirion has a lot of ties to choose from.


ETA: "Hells of Iron" has got to be my favourite on the basis of punny answers. Just shows again that the answer can be so much more original than the basis for the question. :D

[Huinesoron]

I think the fact that the riddle can be guessed correctly with a different set of specifics is an indication of lack of specificity in the clues, if anything. You did get the answer right and had a fitting explanation. I did not think the clues were this flexible when I wrote them, but I guess Sirion has a lot of ties to choose from.

Well, to an extent. But there's also a big dose of me overfitting - the river out of Dungortheb, for example, doesn't actually exist(!), and wouldn't fit your clue even if it did. (I was thinking of Esgalduin, I think, or possibly Mindeb).

Anyway: this riddle hopefully won't allow multiple interpretations, except in one place where I meant it to.

The fiery fiend,
The golden band,
The faithful steed,
The sword in hand.
Call to them, and you call to me;
From my father's throne, what heights do I see?

hS

[Urwen]

Glorfindel comes to mind.

[Huinesoron]

Glorfindel comes to mind.

Glorfindel is not involved in the answer.

Though if you think that for the reason I think you think that, you're thinking along the right lines.

hS

[Urwen]

Theoden, for the same reasons?

[Huinesoron]

Theoden, for the same reasons?

Theoden is... kind of involved in the question, but not in the answer.

hS

[Urwen]

So he's the one asking the question?

[Huinesoron]

So he's the one asking the question?

No he is not. "Kind of involved in the question" meant kind of involved in the riddle, rather than being particularly closely related to the answer.

Did that make sense? Words are hard. :)

hS

[Urwen]

The only other answer that has all four elements listed is Gandalf. If he's not correct either, then I am drawing a blank.

[Huinesoron]

The only other answer that has all four elements listed is Gandalf. If he's not correct either, then I am drawing a blank.

Who said the answer has all four elements?

I know you're about to say "You did!", but no, I didn't. Reread the riddle and think about what it actually says.

hS

[Urwen]

If the riddle doesn't have four elements, then why did you include these four lines?

[Urwen]

Are we supposed to read upwards or downwards, like in your 'grey stone' riddle?

[Urwen]

Fiery golden faithful sword

Fiend band steed hand

[Galadriel55]

I have a feeling we are supposed to get 4 answers, then put them together for a speaker, and THEN answer the question. But I can't get the right combination yet. Am I on the right track?

[Huinesoron]

If the riddle doesn't have four elements, then why did you include these four lines?

That is what you are supposed to figure out, yes. To my mind, that's the difference between riddles and trivia games: riddles are tricksy.

Are we supposed to read upwards or downwards, like in your 'grey stone' riddle?

Oh, I liked that one. :) No. (It's not so much that I try not to have a style, but that I can't even remember my previous riddles well enough to form one.)

Fiery golden faithful sword

Fiend band steed hand

Are we back in 70s Rock groups again?

hS

[Urwen]

The fiery fiend, - A Balrog
The golden band, - One Ring
The faithful steed, - Snowmane and/or Shadowfax
The sword in hand - Glamdring and/or Anduril

[Huinesoron]

The fiery fiend, - A Balrog
The golden band, - One Ring
The faithful steed, - Snowmane and/or Shadowfax
The sword in hand - Glamdring and/or Anduril

Yes, yes, yes, no, no, no. :)

hS

[Urwen]

Can't see any other connection between the three you said 'yes' to, unless Gollum learned to ride a horse.

[Urwen]

Oh, wait, I found it.


It's 'bane'. Balrog=Durin's bane, One Ring = Isildur's bane, Snowmane = Theoden's bane. Now I just need to find a sword and a person that are someone's bane.

[Urwen]

Could the answer then be Pippin, wielder of the sword Troll's bane, which he named himself? But what heights did he see? Maybe it means Men, who are taller than him?

[Huinesoron]

Oh, wait, I found it.


It's 'bane'. Balrog=Durin's bane, One Ring = Isildur's bane, Snowmane = Theoden's bane. Now I just need to find a sword and a person that are someone's bane.

You did find it!

Could the answer then be Pippin, wielder of the sword Troll's bane, which he named himself? But what heights did he see? Maybe it means Men, who are taller than him?

Troll's Bane is the sword, yep. You've solved the first four lines, and found what links them!

Now think about what the fifth line actually means, and how it leads to the answer to the sixth.

Can't see any other connection between the three you said 'yes' to, unless Gollum learned to ride a horse.

Precious loves Whitesocks, yes we does! Who's Smeagol's good boy?

hS

[Galadriel55]

Good one, Urwen! :)

[Urwen]

Call to them, call to me - Shout 'Bane!' and he (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bain)will come. And as for what heights he sees, Lonely Mountain (possibly)

[Huinesoron]

Call to them, call to me - Shout 'Bane!' and he (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bain)will come. And as for what heights he sees, Lonely Mountain (possibly)

Correct! The Lonely Mountain is the answer, and Bain son of Bard is the speaker. Very nicely put together. I don't think I even had to point you at 'bane'.

Over to you.

hS

[Urwen]

It was Snowmane that cinched it, really. So, thank you, Snowmane.

Going off on a tangent, but Turin is called 'Glaurung's bane', and I suppose we could call Tuor 'Morleg's bane' as well. :D

[Urwen]

Here's a short little ditty, made by a little kitty, itty bitty witty kitty.

Gold I am, my kin black or red
To my foes I bring dread
So be careful where you tread
For I will mess with your head

Hint: If you want the answer, I already gave it to you. ;)

[Urwen]

I practically told you guys what the answer is and yet none of you said it. Should I be worried? :eek:

[Galadriel55]

Glaurung the Golden, known for messing with heads?


On a tangent, is Smaug given a colour? I thought he was gold too, or is that movieverse messing with my head?

[Urwen]

My research shows he's red (in the books at least), hence the 'red' part. Over to you.

[Huinesoron]

On a tangent, is Smaug given a colour? I thought he was gold too, or is that movieverse messing with my head?

There he lay, a vast red-golden dragon, fast asleep; a thrumming came from his jaws and nostrils, and wisps of smoke, but his fires were
low in slumber. Beneath him, under all his limbs and his huge coiled tail, and about him on all sides stretching away across the unseen floors, lay countless piles of precious things, gold wrought and unwrought, gems and jewels, and silver red-stained in the ruddy light.

I would swear Bilbo called him "Smaug the Golden" somewhere in his praise, but apparently not. There is a possibility that he was gold, and that like his treasure Bilbo just saw him "red-stained in the ruddy light", but Occam's razor suggests he was red-gold.

... and rainbow underneath, of course!

The hobbit could see his underparts and his long pale belly crusted with gems and fragments of gold from his long lying on his costly bed.

At least we know Smaug took the lesson of Glaurung to heart, though how he heard about it is a mystery. Perhaps Morgoth broadcast his stalking of the Children of Hurin to all Angband, in the first reality TV show of Arda?

hS

[Urwen]

He is red. The images do not lie.


http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/f/fd/Henning_Janssen_-_Magnificent_Guardian.jpg

Also, in a freaky coincidence, the site just spewed his quote.



https://i.imgur.com/W4nsIoO.png

[Galadriel55]

A simple one:


Soul of flame,
Dark my fame,
Fateful is my name.
My hair burns,
My rage churns,
As dark cloud my mood shows.

[Urwen]

Easy. It's the dude who started it all (aka Feanor aka Curufinwe)

[Galadriel55]

Thought Feanor would come up. But no! It's a different very easy answer. ;)

[Urwen]

Turin?

[Galadriel55]

That I did not expect to come up at all. No. Not even close. Look in other places for the answer. This riddle is supposed to be very straightforward, plus a tiny bit of poetic license.

[Urwen]

Well, it does describe his life, and his rage towards Morgoth and co.


But if he's not it, how about Smaug? Does Smaug's hair burn? Cos if so, he's a perfect fit.

[Galadriel55]

Well, it does describe his life, and his rage towards Morgoth and co.


But if he's not it, how about Smaug? Does Smaug's hair burn? Cos if so, he's a perfect fit.

Closer but still sooo far.

You're falling into the same trap with all of my riddles. Why do you assume the speaker literally speaks? It's a riddle, not a documentary. ;) And as I told you, this particular one isn't meant to be difficult - it's not referencing a million related things, it's just one description which fits one answer, in some ways less and in some ways more literally than your guesses.

[Urwen]

Because objects don't have hair? Nor do they rage.

[Urwen]

Unless it's a 'living object', but only 'living objects' are Gurthang and Troll's purse.

[Huinesoron]

So there's no mention of wings (:Merisu:) but could it be a balrog? They do literally have both burning hair and a dark cloud. And they don't speak, certain movies aside. :D

In fact, given 'fateful is my name', I'd go so far as to specifically guess DURIN'S BANE.

hS

PS: Are those two really the only talking objects? It seems like the sort of thing Tolkien would use a lot... does the Ring speak in the books, or just the movie?

[Galadriel55]

Unless it's a 'living object', but only 'living objects' are Gurthang and Troll's purse.

Remember how, when I made a riddle about Boromir's horn announcing great beginnings, you insisted that only people-type answers could do that? And I made you a whole list of non-humanoid things that could do the job, including animals, items, and places? ;)


It is not Durin's Bane, but Huey is correct in focusing on the fateful name. And correct in assuming the literal dark cloud.

[Urwen]

So you mentioned trees, which have hair (ie. leaves). A tree of some kind?

[Urwen]

"A dark cloud rose above both Thangorodrim and Fingon's heart."

[Galadriel55]

So you mentioned trees, which have hair (ie. leaves). A tree of some kind?

When did I mention trees in conjunction with this riddle? Not a tree. Nor Fingon's heart - if that is what you intended as the answer in your last post.

[Urwen]

You did mention them in your 'talking objects' list earlier, though...

[Urwen]

Maybe the Barrow-Wights?

[Galadriel55]

You did mention them in your 'talking objects' list earlier, though...

Yes, but that list is not exclusive and not meant to be an exhaustive checklist for solving my riddles, just an illustration of thinking outside the box. :confused:

No to Barrow Wights.

To make this easier: the answer is NOT humanoid.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Is it Orodruin? :smokin:

[Galadriel55]

Is it Orodruin? :smokin:

Correct! :D

[Urwen]

So where is its hair?

[Huinesoron]

So where is its hair?

I would assume the classic fountain of lava coming out of the top of an erupting volcano.

Come to think of it, Pele's hair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele%27s_hair) is an actual form of lava.

hS

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Correct! :D
Woohoo! Does this mean I have to come up with a riddle now? :Merisu:

So where is its hair?

I would assume the classic fountain of lava coming out of the top of an erupting volcano.

Come to think of it, Pele's hair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pele%27s_hair) is an actual form of lava.

hS

I just figured it was poetic imagery, but now that I know about Pele's Hair, I'll be picturing Mt. Doom with beautiful locks from now on.

[Huinesoron]

Woohoo! Does this mean I have to come up with a riddle now? :Merisu:

Please! And if you want it to go really smoothly, remember to include the answer when you post. :D

hS

[Urwen]

Bump?

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Well, I was going to ask what I have in my pocket, but we all know that's a terribly unfair (not even) riddle, so I guess I'll just have to come up with something else. I'll make this easy on me and everyone else. It turns out I'm terrible at coming up with riddles.

True companion,
loyal friend and follower,
a light in the dark,
courage beyond hope,
Faithful to the last

[Urwen]

Right, so it's either Sam or Beleg, and since not many people are familiar with Silm, my guess is Sam.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Right, so it's either Sam or Beleg, and since not many people are familiar with Silm, my guess is Sam.

Yes, indeed! It was Sam. <3

Your turn! :D

[Urwen]

Give me some time to make a good one.