Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Aiwendil]

I'll be a chef.

[tar-ancalime]

Is it too late?

I'd like to sign up if there's still time. And I'll be an ex-leper (I don't think anyone has taken that one yet).

[Formendacil]

I shall be the knight- although anything other than the crazy lady or the princess would have been halfways decent.

Thanks for the clarification regarding number of players, Shelob.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Ok, since Shelob's out for a bit, I'll just post a list of the people we currently have signed up:

1. The Saucepan Man -foreign dignitary
2. Farael -Alchemist
3. Mormegil -Soldier
4. (Reserved for Fordim...are you gonna play? Please say yes. ;))
5. Aiwendil -cook
6. Glirdan -musician
7. Formendacil -knight
8. Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant -shepherd
9. Lhunardawen -Princess
10. Eomer of the Rohirrim -priest
11. Littlemanpoet (or are you going by "elempi" now? :p)
12. Kath -beekeeper
13. Garin
14. Holbytlass -governess
(15.) Anguirel -banker
(16.) Celuien -resident amphibean
17. Tar-Ancalime -ex-leper
18. Gil-Galad
19. Boromir88
20. Nilpaurion Felagund

This game is looking up, that's quite an impressive roster.

[Holbytlass]

Yea, I'm in!! I'm the governess.

[Celuien]

Sorry. Yes, that's the role I wanted. I am an amphibious creature after all...or at least my avvie is.

[Lhunardawen]

Princess. ;) (You'll only need to read my profile.)

But the crazy lady who lives with pet rocks (instead of cats) role is very tempting...

Well, if anyone wants the princess role, I'll willingly step down and be the crazy lady.

Eomer - Bring it on, I say! And I'll be watching you, too. ;)

Nilp - I guess there's no way you can back out of this one. :p

Anyways, I prefer having the Hunter and Ranger able to converse, but I'm okay with anything. But that false Seer...it's very interesting, but as someone who has experienced being a revised Seer *glares at Formendacil* I know how hard it is. But it's your call.

EDIT: Oops. Just noticed Nilp wasn't included in the list. He signed up right before I did.

[Gil-Galad]

any room for little ol' me?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I'll take the Shepherd.

[Boromir88]

If it's not too late, I would like to play in this one. :)

[Aiwendil]

On second thought, "chef" is not English enough a word. I shall be a cook.

[mormegil]

Any idea when roles will be sent out?

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

EDIT: Oops. Just noticed Nilp wasn't included in the list. He signed up right before I did.

Oh is that what he was saying? Sorry, I suppose I need one of you "dagas" to translate for me.

And Mormegil, I'd imagine that roles will be sent out sometime on Sunday.

And Boro, you're in.

[littlemanpoet]

I'll be a silversmith.

I'm good with options 1 & 2.

Count my vote toward no double lynchings.

I think that about covers it.

What a crew! :)

[Celuien]

I guess those parentheses can come off now, although there are a few evenings when I'll have limited access (if any) to a computer.

Options one and two are fine with me. The False Seer is both fascinating and terrifiying due to the confusion the role could cause the village. But confusion should be a part of Werewolf, after all. ;) Ranger and Hunter communication should hopefully balance it out. As for option three, 6 gifteds seem a little too many since there would be a 45% non-ordinary population (counting the wolves).

What fun. :D

[Shelob]

Alright, due to general consensus it looks like the second option is going to be the one we play with. So role wise there will be

3 Wolves
1 Seer
1 False Seer
1 Ranger
1 Hunter
x villagers (x like in algebra, not roman numerals)
> where the Ranger and Hunter are allowed to communicate during the day

Also, due to the mod being afraid of getting lynched herself, there will be NO DOUBLE LYNCHINGS. If the votes happen to be tied at the end of the day whoever reached the number of votes in question First will be lynched.

Although it was probably implied earlier I should probably formalize that Abercrombie is actually my sub-mod. Chances are I won't need her to cover a death/lynching for me, but if it looks like I'm going to miss a deadline I'll either forward her the information she needs or direct wolves/etc. to send their choices to both of us. Fairly normal sort of Sub-Mod stuff, just wanted to be sure we understood each other.

Finally, NIGHT 1 is still going to start on Sunday at around 5pm EST (it may be a little later since I'm not sure exactly when I'm getting home, however it won't be by much so if that's the case the first night will just be a little short). I'm keeping that date so that if Fordim or Kuru (or others) do decide to join they're not too late, also so that our last few people can pick occupations and whatnot. The most important thing about this is that people will therefore be getting roles Sunday. The next most important thing to note is that I WILL NOT START A NEW THREAD THEN, I'll just announce in this thread that the game has begun and all the stuff that goes along with that (no unnecessary posting, explanations of roles, etc). The new thread will begin Monday, with DAY 1 and the mod death.

(Abercrombie's list of players (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=446976&postcount=2254) is currently accurate, with the exception of the parentheses around Celuien's name, so use that for now if you want to see who's in.)

[Gil-Galad]

i'll be a devoted Lupine enthuiast who took a bad time to move into the village :D

[Boromir88]

I shall be zee magistrate

[Lhunardawen]

Wow...and I was just wondering what in the outside world you're doing, Boro. You're one of the people I miss playing with, and it's great to see that you made it for this game. :)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I see we finally have a chance to play together. :)

I shall be a fishmonger . . . I remember that the mod of XIII was one. ;)

Vzv, Farael, I should warn you that my first vote shall be for you, to acquaint you to your future role. http://www.geocities.com/louis_martian/smilies/evil.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

The next most important thing to note is that I WILL NOT START A NEW THREAD THEN, I'll just announce in this thread that the game has begun and all the stuff that goes along with that (no unnecessary posting, explanations of roles, etc). The new thread will begin Monday, with DAY 1 and the mod death.Shelob, I do think that it would be useful to have the rules set out in the game thread as, if we do need to refer back to them, it will be easier to find them there rather than in the middle of this thread.

You may have been intending to post the rules with the first Day 1 post, but I just thought that I would mention it.

Also, I presume that the Seer and the False Seer will both get the chance to dream before Day 1 starts. Is that correct?

[Boromir88]

Wow...and I was just wondering what in the outside world you're doing, Boro. You're one of the people I miss playing with, and it's great to see that you made it for this game.
Thank you for such fine compliments, I can definitely say the same about you. :) I've been pushin' a lot of paper work and attending seminars...all that exciting stuff, the Fireworks season is approaching. I am glad that I can squeeze in one more game before I really get hampered. :cool:

I see we finally have a chance to play together.
Yes, finally! And I'm sure it's going to be one for the ages. :p

[Shelob]

it would be useful to have the rules set out in the game thread

Perhaps, but with the exception of the False Seer it's nothing new so I figured people wouldn't really need to see all of it again. Also, having to scroll through those posts before getting to the DAY 1 death has always annoyed me...but if nothing else I'll include a link to the post which does have all the information. Does that sound Fair Enough?

And yes, both the Seer and False Seer will be able to dream before the first DAY.

Finally, the list of players as it stands now is:

1. SPM--foreign dignitary
2. Farael--alchemist
3. morm--soldier
4. Aiwendil--cook
5. Glirdan--musician
6. Formendacil--knight
7. Spawn--sheperd
8. Nilp--fishmonger
9. Lhuna--princess
10. Eomer--priest
11. LMP--silversmith
12. Kath--beekeeper
13. Garin
14. Holbytlass--governess
15. Anguirel--banker
16. Celuien--resident amphibean
17. Tar-Ancalime-- ex-leper
18. Gil-Galad--devoted Lupine enthusiast (moved in @ bad time)
19. Boromir88--magistrate


If a few more people happen to sign up in the next 8 hours then grand, elsewise that's the village. (and yes, I will actually spell out everyone's name for the game. It's just that right now I had to copy/paste from my list due to time)

[Garin]

As much as I'd like to be the eccentric bum or the hermit, I'll choose more utilitarian-- I'll be the baker.

[Shelob]

Werewolf game XVIII has now begun. Roles will be out shortly and a new thread will begin with the start of DAY 1 in approximately twenty-four hours.

The Players Are:

1. Shelob--Mad scientist/doctor (Mod)
2. AbercrombieofRohan--Retired Yeti-spotter (Sub-Mod)
3. The Saucepan Man--Foreign Dignitary
4. Farael--Alchemist
5. Mormegil--Soldier
6. Aiwendil--Cook
7. Glirdan--Musician
8. Formendacil--Knight
9. Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant--Sheperd
10. Nilpaurion Felagund--Fishmonger
11. Lhunardawen--Princess
12. Eomer of the Rohirrim--Priest
13. Littlemanpoet--Silversmith
14. Kath--Beekeeper
15. Garin--Baker
16. Holbytlass--Governess
17. Anguirel--Banker
18. Celuien--Resident Amphibean
19. Tar-Ancalime-- Ex-leper
20. Gil-Galad--Devoted Lupine Enthusiast
21. Boromir88--Magistrate

From this point onward it is asked that players refrain from unnecessary posting in this thread, posts announcing an absence from gameplay or asking for clarification from the mod are acceptable, posts such as "Oh wow, I'm a Wolf!" are not.


Gameplay consists of two stages, that of NIGHT and that of DAY. Each stage shall last twenty-four (24) hours, or as close to 24 hours as the mod is able to come (think "within half an hour").

During the DAY stage all villagers communicate openly in the game thread and cast their votes. Also during the DAY the RANGER and HUNTER may communicate privately through PM, no other players should be communicating about the game in private during this stage.

During the NIGHT stage the villagers "sleep" in the game thread (read: don't post), while the WEREWOLVES, SEER, FALSE SEER, RANGER and HUNTER send their choices to the mod via PM (if necessary to the sub-mod as well, though they shall be told if that's needed). The Wolves may communicate through PM as much as necessary to determine their kill before PMing the Mod, no other players should be communicating about the game during this stage.



The Roles which are included in this game are:

3 WEREWOLVES: The Werewolves can communicate privately through PM during the NIGHT stage of gameplay. Their goal is to kill off innocent villagers until the number of wolves and the number villagers is the same. Wolves can be killed by being lynched or by being the Hunter's choice at the time of the Hunter's Death, understandably they should therefore try to avoid those.

1 SEER: The Seer can dream of one villager each NIGHT and learn of that person's roll. The Seer's goal is to find the werewolves and help the rest of the village in lynching them.

1 FALSE SEER: The False Seer believes themselves to be a Normal Seer. Like the Seer the False Seer dreams of one villager each NIGHT. Unlike the Seer the role the False Seer recieves for that person is not guaranteed to be correct. When the Flase Seer dreams of a person the role they recieve is pulled at random from all the available roles, the only exception to this being if the False Seer dreams of the True Seer in which case they are told they have dreamd of the "False Seer". The information the False Seer recieves may be correct unless it is impossible for the person's true role to be dreamed of (For Example: if the False Seer dreams of the true Ranger but has already been told another player is the Ranger their dream cannot be correct, if they hadn't already recieved "Ranger" in response to a dream it is possible for them to dream correctly).

1 RANGER: The Ranger can choose each NIGHT one villager to protect from the Werewolves. If the Ranger and the Wolves pick the same person that person will not be killed and the next DAY will begin with no death. During the DAY the Ranger may communicate via PM with the Hunter.

1 HUNTER: The Hunter can choose at anytime one villager to Hunt. If the Hunter is killed (either by wolves or by lynching) the last person they chose to Hunt will be killed with them. During the DAY the Hunter may communicate via PM with the Ranger. (Note: I'm allowing the Hunter to pick a person at anytime so that they can chose someone new in case they are lynched, I would still appreciate it if the Hunter sent me a new choice each NIGHT)

12 VILLAGERS: The Villagers are Ordinary Villagers. There is nothing special about them. During the DAY they should communicate openly in the Game Thread in order to hunt out the Wolves. The Villager's Goal is to find the 3 wolves before the number of wolves and the number of villagers is equal. Villagers may not communicate, either openly or privately, during the NIGHT.



Thank You, and you should recieve roles as soon as I've pulled them from a hat. The SEER and FALSE SEER may dream as soon as they are able after that.

Werewolf game XVIII has now begun. A new thread will begin with the start of DAY 1 in approximately twenty-four hours.

[EDIT: umm, you probably didn't need this (and that's probably why I forgot it), but please do remain in INVISIBLE mode for so long as you are alive and in the game. Thanks Again.]

[Shelob]

Nilpaurion Felagund has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space.

Didn't this just happen last game?

Nilp, since I just repped you it won't let me send you your role that way either. I'll give you an hour or so, if I still can't PM you then I'll go on a repping spree and get to you that way.


Everyone else should have their roles by now, if you don't for some reason please PM me to let me know.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

PMs cleared.

[tar-ancalime]

Now that the game is underway, I'd just like to note:

The voting deadline is 5 AM where I live. That means I'm quite likely to vote 5 or 6 hours early each day. Please try not to hold it against me! :D

[Glirdan]

As for me, it's right when I get out of school on some days so expect my vote some time early...like almost 10 hours early. :rolleyes:

[Glirdan]

Ok, here's a long explanation (again :rolleyes: ).

1) My participation this week shall be very limited. I have school until Friday. I have band practice tomorrow after school until 4:30 and on Friday, I have a performance and I will probably be there until midnight. (all my time [Eastern]) My participation on the weekend should be a great deal.

2) Next week, I have school. Tuesday, I have band practice. Wednsday and Thurdsday I have a Festival which my school is running and I ahve to stay there until 6. On Friday, the same Festival but I won't be out until 8. After that, my time should be slightly more liberated. Keep in mind though that my parents kick me off the computer frequently and do not get to post as much as I would like.

[Celuien]

Better add my explanations before I get in trouble.

Every 4th night, I have to work late (day runs 6:30AM-8PM). And every other of those 4th nights is an overnight shift (6:30AM-1PM the next day). Our beginning Monday night was my last one, so Friday will be next. Then I sometimes wind up at a relative's house with dial-up where I keep getting bumped offline (like now). That at least will be fixed in about an hour. I hope.

Anyway, it all adds up to an early vote for me today, most likely.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

There's a good chance I won't be able to post on DAY 3, due to extenuating circumstances--the state of my finances, mainly, but also temporal considerations.

I'll make it up on DAY 4, I promise!

[Lhunardawen]

Adding up to Nilp here, I might also not be able to post on the third Day. Not for financial reasons, though - a princess should never have that kind of problem :D - but Saturdays for me are just heavy with church stuff. (You know, similar to those things Eomer's trying hard to do. :p) This Saturday in particular, they will take practically the entire day.

I hope you'll all understand. I'm quite sure some of you will. If not, I command you to. :p

[Kath]

I'm sorry about that. We discovered at a UCAS day yesterday that there may be a possibility of me getting a scholarship so I've been writing an essay all day for it since the deadline is tomorrow :eek:

[Lhunardawen]

Adding up to Nilp here, I might also not be able to post on the third Day. Not for financial reasons, though - a princess should never have that kind of problem :D - but Saturdays for me are just heavy with church stuff. (You know, similar to those things Eomer's trying hard to do. :p) This Saturday in particular, they will take practically the entire day.

I hope you'll all understand. I'm quite sure some of you will. If not, I command you to. :pScrap that.

[The Saucepan Man]

I have to say that I am really rather angry at having been labelled a cheat.

But if that is the way that people feel generally, I shall withdraw from the game now.

[Glirdan]

This game is getting insane... :mad: Sauce, do not drop out!!

[The Saucepan Man]

Thinking about it, it is probably not a good idea to have this discussion here and now.

I would suggest that, if you think that I should withdraw, then PM Shelob. I will stand by the decision of the majority.

[littlemanpoet]

I apologize for my hasty, angry reaction, SPM.

I don't think the inside information should be allowed, but that is not reason to take out my frustrations on you. I'm sorry.

Perhaps it would be best if I drop out?

[Kath]

Nobody should drop out. This has obviously caused some varied and strong opinions but they should be worked through and the game shouldn't suffer because of them. By the look of it lmp you're going to die anyway, but SPM you stay put!

[Shelob]

And I'm going to get irked...man this is annoying...

Alrighty, here's my view on this whole thing. Yes, it wasn't entirely in the spirit of the game. Yes, it causes a somewhat uneven playing field. Then again the spirit of the game is to lie, decieve, and 'kill' each other, and given varying levels of experience and familiarity with the said lying, decieving, and 'killing' there's never really an "even" playing field.

The gifted players do often try to leave hints to tell others that they are gifted, there's no rule anywhere saying that other players can't do the same thing. Mind you, innocents are usually more concerned with hunting wolves and it's not really in the wolves better interest to go around leaving hints to the effect of "Look at me, I'm a werewolf!". So far as I can see it is acceptable to leave whatever hints you can to your innocence or gifted-state, but it can detract from the game and certainly doesn't guarantee anyone's innocence.

That Nilp, Lhuna, SPM and others left anagrams cannot now be changed. I saw Nilp and SPM exchanging Acrostics in a previous game and passed it off as them just being them. I put no stock in it because honestly I wasn't going to take a poem as evidence of innoence.

Littlemanpoet is clearly irked at this, and clearly wants out of it. Fine, either give him the majority of the votes or (and I'd prefer this if only for the sake of the game) go about buisness as usual, if he really wants out I'll gladly kill him off, I said "no double lynchings" but that's in the case of a tie but I'll gladly begin a whole new discussion about who can break rules by breaking the rules of MY game.

If people really do wish for me to take SPM out of the game too, fine, PM me I'll consider it...but really people, if you want me to take out Saucepan Man shouldn't I be taking out Nilp too...and wouldn't getting rid of 3 people (LMP, SPM, Nilp) all at once rather ruin the game...4 people if you want to count Mormegil's response to the whole thing...

:rolleyes: Really people, we're in game 18 here...do you seriously expect us to ignore the previous 17 games? And that's not even counting the WWJ games...pheh, "past lives", "I've seen this in other villages", and you get mad at an anagram...

[Shelob]

I should probably clarify, "if he really wants out I'll gladly kill him off" translates to "if he really wants out LMP should PM me and I'll gladly kill him off"

[Aiwendil]

and wouldn't getting rid of 3 people (LMP, SPM, Nilp) all at once rather ruin the game...4 people if you want to count Mormegil's response to the whole thing...


Five people. I also posted an anagram.

Personally, I don't see any reason for anagrams not to be allowed, unless we also disallowed all "hints", which would be utterly absurd.

[Aiwendil]

I don't think the inside information should be allowed

Re-reading this, I wonder whether perhaps LMP has misunderstood the situation. There has been no inside information - in fact, anagrams have not been used before. Other forms of hints - including acrostics - have, of course been used. If the knowledge that people may leave hints in their posts is "inside information", well . . . then I don't think any veterans could legally play without having their memories wiped.

[Glirdan]

What we need to know is this. Is Lmp going to drop out or no. Because if he is, would that not make all the votes for him void? This is so insane!!! :mad: I have no problems with the anagrams. And I ahve a thought in my head about why we shouldn't have them but it's stuck in my head. :rolleyes: Anyway, let's get back to the game.

[Holbytlass]

I'm going to throw in a few thoughts here on this. I think everyone playing should remember that this is Shelob's game. Those of us who have had the honor of modding a game know how special our own game is to ourself.
Please, please don't ruin it for Shelob that it holds resentment for her and not good memories.

[Shelob]

NOTICE:

Littlemanpoet has dropped from the game. He and whoever gets the majority of votes will be killed at the end of the game. (EDIT: *cough* DAY...)

ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR LITTLEMANPOET IS ALLOWED TO CHANGE THEIR VOTES

I'm sure you all understand why.

Now, for the rest of you. CONTINUE LIFE AS NORMAL. Please...

It still stands, if you feel this whole thing constitutes cheating PM me. HOWEVER if you do you should keep in mind that if a majority finds this to be cheating EVERYONE who posted an anagram will be taken out (unless they've already 'died' in the game).

Now I'm going to go eat lunch...after clearing my PMs, just in case.

[littlemanpoet]

Thank you, Shelob. I hope the game's enjoyable to you from here on out.

Sorry for having caused such a mess within the game.

This issue will need to be resolved after XVIII.

[Shelob]

Shelob - can we take it, then, that LMP was telling the truth and that he was in fact an ordinary villager?
Posted by Aiwendil in the game thread

Umm...here's an interesting thing for me, what effects will telling you now have? Since he's going to die at the end of the DAY just as if he'd gotten a majority of votes I feel I ought to just tell you then, as if he'd gotten a majority of votes. Then again LMP is being taken out of the game and unquestionably in unusual circumstances, so arguably you people should be told now and allowed to work with that information for the rest of the DAY...

...hmm...

Alright, it goes against my judgement, I feel you ought to wait for the end of the DAY, but then I feel bad for you people having things so confused (bad for you, worse for me, downright sorry for those either insulted or accused of cheating) so...yes, littlemanpoet was an innocent, ordinary villager.

[Celuien]

Re-reading this, I wonder whether perhaps LMP has misunderstood the situation. There has been no inside information - in fact, anagrams have not been used before. Other forms of hints - including acrostics - have, of course been used. If the knowledge that people may leave hints in their posts is "inside information", well . . . then I don't think any veterans could legally play without having their memories wiped.

Well...I used anagrams in my last game to drop hints that I was the Ranger, though no one picked them up. Haven't used any this time.

Anyway, sorry to see you go, lmp.

[Farael]

Ok, I won't comment on all that above, I wasn't around and it does not matter anymore.... I guess no-one noticed but I pretty much disapeared today... It's not a clever wolfish plot, I overslept, then went volunteering for six hours and then went for a coffee with a fellow volunteer to talk a few things over. By the time I got home it was well past the deadline. Sorry guys, it seems to have been an intesnse day to say the least, I should have no further problems for the rest of the week 'till next Saturday, but I'll let you know if anything comes up

[Formendacil]

Since it seems that the suspicious Morm cannot take a sick man at his word unless he drags himself out of his sickbed, hobbles across the village, and painstakingly puts up a notice on the Town MessageBoard, let this serve as official notice:

"Formendacil is sick with the flu. He has been sick with the flu, to varying degrees, for nigh on a week now. He is beginning to recover, and as a result, it is probably pointless to be posting this now."

Thank you, and good day.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Nilpaurion Felagund might not be able to post toDay.


*death rattle*

[Lhunardawen]

Nilpaurion Felagund will be able to post later toDay.

Who's this Nilpaurion Felagund that we care so much about him, anyway?

*lies back in coffin*

[Glirdan]

Well, as you've probably noticed by my deathly scilence, I was away all day and did not get a chance to post. Once again, I will not be able to post until this weekend because I will be busy all day Wednsday-Friday. I may ba able to post tomorrow. Sorry!!

[Farael]

Sorry, friends.... no excuses for my no-vote toDay and I see it's two in a row so if I shall be killed I'll accept my faith... I got confused with last WW's game and came back too late.

[Shelob]

The Mod/Author would like to apologise for the inconvenience, however, due to German club this afternoon being followed by delays caused by a teacher meeting which kept her mom rather later, and due to the fact that the mod didn't wish to strand her mother at school just so she could get a werewolf death done on time, The Mod/Author has just got home and the Death for toDAY will be delayed by approximately 15 minutes.

She wishes this was not so but German Club means free food and a better understanding of a foreign language (in today's case a better understanding of Reflexive Verbs in any language) and stranding her mother is more than her life's worth so, to conclude, she doesn't even know who died yet herself.

Sorry again, but I hope the explanation makes sense...

[Celuien]

Arrrggh.

Sorry I missed the deadline today. I just couldn't get back online until now. :mad:

[Kath]

Wonderful, cheers morm.

I'm breaking the 'dead players tell no tales' rule just for a moment to find out if there is a queue for modding beyond Nilp?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'm breaking the 'dead players tell no tales' rule just for a moment to find out if there is a queue for modding beyond Nilp? (Kath)I remember Formendaga saying that they abandoned the mod-list thing a long time ago. So, perhaps none.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm breaking the 'dead players tell no tales' rule just for a moment to find out if there is a queue for modding beyond Nilp?
I did ask to be put on the list after Nilp.

[Farael]

I did ask to be put on the list after Nilp.

Sorry LMP but I think I asked first... although I'm not sure, when did you ask?

[littlemanpoet]

My request was in post # 2231 (http://www.forums.barrowdowns.com./showpost.php?p=446822&postcount=2231).

Yours, Farael, was in post # 2208 (http://www.forums.barrowdowns.com./showpost.php?p=446670&postcount=2208).

After you, which means you get XX. My 'Dueling Wizards' game can wait until XXI. By the way, I have two volunteers for my two submods already lined up. Looking good! And thanks! :)

[Lhunardawen]

So it's

Nilp
Farael
Elempi
Kath

?

Oh dear, what torment! I must have some rest! :eek:

[Cailín]

I actually thought we abandoned the mod list, cause otherwise I think I announced I wished to mod a game ages ago... But I'm not going to be able to until April / May, so be my guest anyway. :)

[Anguirel]

The Return of the Heroes is lurking somewhere in the distant future...

[Kath]

So:

Nilp
Farael
lmp
Kath
Cailin

That's good, means I have some time to figure it out! Thanks guys.

[Shelob]

As much as it's promising to see a list of mods up, I would like to make a brief announcement regarding my game, so I'm sorry to interrupt all your planning and plotting, but if you'll forgive me.


NOTICE: Due to the end of the last DAY happening to land of the day with my German class, and due to me wishing to make the final death (whomever it's for) a good one, expect the final ending to be delayed by at least half an hour. I'll try to keep it as close to the actual deadline as I am able, but can't really promise anything.


My thanks future mods, I only regret that school shall keep me from playing in your games. Speaking of school, I don't suppose anyone would be willing to do my Calculus for me? No, fair enough, if you need me I'll be being anti-derivatives...no, I'll being solving antiderivatives...meh, I'll be both :rolleyes:

[littlemanpoet]

Sign me up for Nilp's game! I'm ready to go again! :)

[Kuruharan]

The Three have won 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, and 18 for a total of eleven wins.

The Ordos have won 4, 6, 8, 12, 15, and 17 for a total of six.

The Black Beornings have won squat for a total of naught.

A Tie occurred in 16 making one.

Back to the ole’ drawing board...

[Glirdan]

Wait, you're telling me the suicidal one is modding next!? Oooo!! This should be interesting!! Let me in!!

[Meneltarmacil]

Sorry, I'm not going to be able to play. I have many weekend retreats/vacations/etc. coming up, so finding the tiime to play will be difficult.

[Holbytlass]

I can't recall if this has been discussed in werewolf but in wwjr, the game that is playing now The Broken Souls, there are 2 (true) seers. Ironically enough I was one and got killed after I got killed from this one :rolleyes: :D. Anyway the two seers worked as a team-PMing only at night and dreaming of one person. There were 15 players with hunter, ranger and 3 wolves. It doesn't mean an automatic win for the innocents (and we wouldn't want that) but it seems to balance a little better. I just thought I'd throw that out.

[Caranlondien]

I have been lurking throughout the last game and greatly enjoyed it; Congratulations to the werewolves for an excellently played game... Can I sign up for the next one?

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I suppose that I ought to open up the debate on hidden messages.

My own view is that nothing in this regard should be ruled out. For Wolves, deception and bluff are the name fo the game, and for innocents and Gifteds, hidden messages may also have their uses. Past games have seen Gifted hints dropped through the use of particular words, word combinations and icons. I see little difference between this and innocents using coded messages (acrostics, anagrams and the like) to declare their innocence.

Given the nature of the game, coded messages can, in any event, no more be relied on than an open declaration of innocence (or Gifted-ness). So I am not sure how they affect the game any more than the standard use of hidden messages.

The other aspect of the debate, I suppose, is whether players should use ploys which only those who have played with them in previous games will recognise (such as Nilp and I exchanging anagrams). Again, I see little difference here than using ones' knowledge of peoples' playing styles etc from previous games to make deductions.

But I think that the most difficult issue here is where, if we start ruling out particular ways of communicating or certain ruse, the line should be drawn. Each game would require a plethora of rules as to what may be done and what may not and there would no doubt be matters arising which were not covered by those rules or which fell into grey areas.

So, my own view is that, subject to those rules which have already been established as standard (no PMs except where specifically allowed, no discussing the game outside the game threads, strict honesty in the admin thread etc), the game does not require further regulation.

Clearly, it will be up to the mod of each game to set the rules as they see fit, but I nevertheless think it useful, given the issue that arose in WWXVIII, for those who have views on these questions to air them here, before the next game starts.

[Boromir88]

Well if we are opening the forum to that...

At first I was feeling the same as lmp, I think my initial reaction was that it would take away the enjoyment of the game from being able to spot a wolf from an innocent villager. I mean I was thinking what would the game turn out to be like if the villagers all sent out coded messages of their innocence, then to me it would make it less enjoyable, because it would take away from the guessing and more or less randomness.

Then after a little discussion with morm and some time I realized:

1) You have to spot the anagram. Even if I went out looking for them I wouldn't be able to find them, I'm never good at coded/secret messaged, I'm far more blatant if you can't tell. Like hit you in the face blatant :p .

2) Then you have to believe it and it's not a wolf masking itself so to say.

So when I thought about it, it didn't take away from the nature of the game, the nature of guessing. Because, you have to believe it and I would hold wolfish voting behaviour, or other signs of lycanthropy over any secret message (if I could find one). :D

[Aiwendil]

I'm (as usual, it seems) in agreement with The Saucepan Man. Trying to regulate such hints would be a very messy business. For one thing, to enforce it, the moderator would have to search carefully through each post for any sign of anagrams, acrostics, or the like.

I also think that the game that's just finished provides adequate evidence of the fallibility of such methods. Both SpM and I lied via anagram.

[Meneltarmacil]

I also agree that hidden messages have their uses. It complies with the established rules that you can say you're the Seer/Hunter/Ordo/etc. under the condition that no PMs or things that absolutely prove you're that person can be revealed. As for how one reveals oneself, that isn't discussed.

Also, this does not give one side a clear advantage over the other, since the Wolves can also pick up on cryptic hints and use them to identify potential threats.

[Shelob]

Speaking as an all-powerful mod who witnessed this I must say that I could easily see both sides of the secret message issue...however so far as that went it took everything in my power not to post a general "Are you people CRAZY? Saucepan Man's a WOLF, don't trust him!" Once I got over that reaction I must say I didn't see any need for limiting the use of similar messages. It just didn't seem practical because I could clearly see how they were not a one sided deal.

True, the messages stated that a player was innocent. However the player wasn't. If Sauce hadn't told Nilp he was innocent through the message he may have been more serious suspected. The messages work both ways, they could harm wolves if all the innocents were going around saying "Look at me, I'm not a wolf!" but then again it could just as easily be a message which saves a wolf.


Given that the secret messages are basically just an evolution of the point of the game it seems to me that the bigger, perhaps deeper, issue here is the evolution of this game and it's players. Nilpaurion and Saucepan Man had used similar secret messages before, they could recognize them when they saw them and could then use the messages to influence their play. Others could not. When the WereWolf Junior games started many "senior" players stressed that the games should not be considered "junior" and "senior" but rather simply two sides of the same thing. Certainly no one would argue that all new players must play x-number of WWJ games before moving onto the full Tol-in-Gaurhoth version, just as any experienced player is not restricted from WWJ games.

If we wish to consider the use or restriction of secret messages I think we need to consider the "junior" and "senior" issue again. Ignoring the obvious/not-obvious natures of various secret messages (I caught acrostics all but instatnly but didn't catch anagrams until they were pointed out, simply because acrostics are easier for me and, so far as I'm concerned, more "obvious"), anyway, ignoring that the only way a player will catch the messages is if they're familiar with the previous use of similar messages. Littleman Poet wasn't expecting messages to be passed in such a way because he hadn't seen something like it before and so he was indignent when he learned of it, but would anyone say that he must be restricted to WWJ games because he hasn't got enough expierience? I should hope not.


I will not say that that is the only way to look at this, I will not even say that it is, in truth, even anywhere near the most important way. I simply bring it up because to me if one will argue that "secret messages" are against the spirit of the game one must really question what will and will not be allowed. A game in which no one but gifteds can leave hints will leave the gifteds glaringly obvious. To avoid that a game in which no one can leave hints defeats the purpose, a player would have to spend more time editing their posts to ensure that there is not phrasing or accidental suggestion that they are innocent and wouldn't be able to really focus on finding wolves. And what would you have to work form in such a case anyway, a voting record? Any player who has played at least one game will argue that a voting record tells you very little on it's own, to find wolves one must look not only at the record but also at what everyone has said, if all people can say is "Shelob's vote looks suspicious" you are still working from only the voting record, it's just been dressed up a bit.

I still wish to hear from Littleman Poet, it may be I have misinterrpreted his reasons for not wanting the hinting and if that's the case it may be my argument is not relevent to the issue at hand. However I felt it should be said, what's at stake here isn't "was that cheating?" it's how we wish to see the game played in the future. Go look at the first game, it varies hugely from how games now are played but I don't think anyone would claim that it is wrong. The game has just evolved since then, and it evolves with each new game, each combination of players, and the conclusions we draw from each new Death.

I hope that it either makes sense or helps (preferably both, in reality), but even if it doesn't...

[littlemanpoet]

Initially I had felt betrayed..... but that was based on the assumption that Lhuna, Nilp, & SPM were all innocents, holding secrets from a fellow innocent (me :p). More fool me, it never occurred to me until I "poofed", that just maybe SPM was a werewolf after all, like I had hunched at the very beginning. Once I accepted that possibility, my view on "codes" changed. As SPM has said, they are no more a sure sign of honesty than anything else written in posts. Therefore, it's a moot issue. So I agree. Let 'em stand. Any innocents who get caught out by werewolves (who already know who's innocent anyway) have merely played into the werewolves' hands, and so much the worse for them.

A side issue for me had been, "why on earth would some innocents want to keep secrets from other innocents?" Here's my point: some of us, when innocents, ain't that great at reading codes, anagrams, and what-not. Any innocents who convey crucial information through codes, run the risk of some fellow innocents not getting it. But that doesn't mean there ought to be a rule against it. Either you're just playing around and it doesn't really matter, or you're running the risk of cutting off your nose to spite your face. So code away all you want, gifteds and innocents .... this particular player is not likely to figure it out when he's innocent, and will probably be clued in by fellow werewolves when he's a werewolf. So have at it.

[mormegil]

I'm glad to see that most of us are in agreement on this issue. As I noted in the game I actually didn't believe Nilp based on his anagram and I should actually have seen SpM playing off that a lot to gain Nilp's confidence, and it worked. But I don't see that a 'senior' or 'junior' player issue is of any consequence. In partiuclar these anagrams were there for everyone to see and decipher, if you had the patience. Speaking of which I didn't decipher all of them and would like to know what they all said. I picked up on the majority but not all.

Next game? Perhaps...depends on timing and some other issues. I don't want to continually take up a spot if there are other. I think I've been in the most games overall :rolleyes: ...if not me than SpM ;)

[Farael]

On Secret codes:

Even though I was slightly bummed out at the fact that I am not good for anagrams, I don't mind them as long as they are out there for everyone to see.

On the coming up game:

Nilp, you know you can already count on me for it.... as for occupation, even though I'm tempted of actually being the town's Nilp, I wouldn't want to seem to be doing a parody of your antics.... thus, I shall be the town's "Escaped mental asylum internee who suffers a cronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories" (the second part allowing me to go after Aiwendil again if he decides to play :p)

Looking forward to being able to satisfy my WW addiction some more.

[Lhunardawen]

SpW and Aiwendil...you liars! :p

It's odd, but I'm inclined to believe that those who used anagrams and such to express their innocence are actually telling the truth. Most likely it's because any sane person wouldn't go to such lengths to tell a lie, but apparently making an anagram isn't such a hard thing to do for our two lycans above.

So I guess I should consider myself warned from next game on.

Nilp, come on...I'm burning with excitement! Tell us what you have planned! :D

[Formendacil]

First of all, let me put down my name as a player for Nilp's game. Cannot miss this one!

Next, moving on the Secret Codes issue, which I have thus far refrained from commenting on:

As noted in private conversations to various persons, I have no issue with secret messages. I've never used them, myself, and if I did, I'd probably be a Wolf when doing so. I've also never been inclined to trust them. Nilp and SPM both had my trust this last game (for better or worse) because of the way they voted. The hidden message stuff I ignore completely. What else do you expect them to say? "I'm a Wolf, Nilp." "Yeah, me too."

Honestly...

However, I wish to go on the record now, since I was unwilling to do so earlier, that I was most irritated and displeased at the irrational and immature behaviour that arose when LMP discovered something new. Sorry, LMP, I hold you in high regard normally, but your behaviour smacked of "well, if we can't play it my way, I'm not playing".

I was most disappointed.

As regards the future, perhaps notice should be served in Game-Opening posts that secret messages of any sort are a part of the game, and that taking them seriously is something the player does at their own risk.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

This has nothing to do with anagrams, sorry to interrupt.

I think I've been in the most games overall :rolleyes:
Well, now that you mentioned it...

A while ago I started to suspect that I'm kind of addicted to Werewolfing, and I did a little research about how bad the situation was. It was such a relief to discover that the results weren't that alarming and I certainly wasn't alone with my addiction. ;)

Most enthusiastic WWers:

Top 3

1. 13 games
- mormegil (18, 17, 15, 14, 12, 11, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 3, 1)

2. 12 games
- Kath (18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, WWJ 3)

3. 9 games
- Anguirel (18, 13, 12, 10, 4, 2, 1, WWJ 5, WWJ 3 + mod 15)
- Eomer (18, 15, 12, 11, 7, 6, 4, 2, WWJ 3 + mod 3)
- Gil (18, 17, 16, 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, WWJ 5)
- Holby (18, 14, 9, 6, 5, 3, 2, WWJ 5, WWJ 2 + mod 11)
- Sauce (18, 17, 15, 14, 11, 9, 8, 3, 1 + mod 2)
- spawn (18, 17, 15, 14, 10, 8, 7, 4, 2 + mod 13)
- Wayne (17, 15, 14, 13, 10, 9, WWJ 3, WWJ 2, WWJ 1)


If I've counted someone's games wrong or if someone should be in the list but isn't, please correct me. In addition there's a huge amount of people with 6-8 games in their account.

[Kath]

12! I knew I'd been in a lot but wow. :eek:

Nilp am I still in for your game?

As to secret messages, I don't like them, but will concede to their use as I never notice them myself so unless they're brought to my attention I won't be bothered by them.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The Village shall be named Ened-in-Nowhere. (For those of you who know Sindarin, ;) .)

There shall the Lovers be introduced. As defined by Cailín:

The Lovers.

The game would be close to an ordinary game of Werewolves. The village should consist of about sixteen players, three wolves, a Hunter, a Seer and a Ranger. However, one of the wolves and one of the Ordinary Villagers are more than they appear. It is tragic, surely, but some twisted fate decided these two sworn enemies should fall in love. They shall form a separate, third team and can only win if they survive together. This might be rather interesting, for where in all previous games the wolves could blindly trust each other, they now have a traitor in their midst who not only wishes to feast on the villagers, but also his fellow wolves – blinded by love, naturally. The devoted ordinary villager in the meantime will have to betray all his or her ordinary friends to be able to live happily ever after with his/her furry lover.

At night, the werewolf in love would have to do anything to prevent his beloved from being eaten – without raising suspicion with the other wolves. During the day, there shall be two people who will really have to defend each other with their lives – because they cannot survive without the other – and still, without drawing attention too themselves. It might really damage the position of the wolves, but on the other hand, the lover-werewolf would have to keep his fellows alive to get rid of the other Villagers as quickly as possible.

I was thinking along the following lines:

- If one of the lovers gets lynched, eaten or shot by the Hunter, the other shall automatically die of grief.
- If the Seer dreams of one of the lovers, he or she shall only see their normal role, not the lover part.
- The Lovers win if they survive together or if the composition of the village is Lover – Lover – Wolf or Lover – Lover – Villager. (Cailín)

Except for the following changes.

~ This shall be 20-player village.

~ There shall be 4 Werewolves. (gasps from everyone) And they could PM each other DAY and NIGHT. (more gasps)

~ There shall be two Seers. They could PM each other DAY and NIGHT. They can dream of only one person per NIGHT. (awed silence from everyone)

~ The Lovers can PM each other only once during a 24-hour period (DAY or NIGHT).

~ And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the Lovers cannot be the mod and a player. (sigh from the mod)

This is the basic composition of the village. I'll ask those who wish to join whether they want other roles or not.

[Anguirel]

Oh Lord. Lovers.

Maybe the only thing that could have tempted me.

I will sign up the moment WWJ5 ends today...which it will...

[tar-ancalime]

(sign me up for the next game)

I'm all for secret messages, handshakes, and other devious play. Provided, of course, it happens in the game thread where we've all got a shot at deciphering it, and it doesn't reference any real-life information to which we're not all privy.

I found the anagrams and recognized them as such, but I have to admit that I was too lazy to figure out what they were saying. I will not make that mistake again!

EDIT:

Lovers! I have been waiting for this to show up in a game. Now I'm really excited. Can we start RIGHT NOW?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Setting: We shall be set in early First Age Hildórien, a few years after the awakening of Men.

All occupations, therefore, must fit this. You can be trappers (NOT hunters), shepherds, fisherfolk, etc.

(Well, maybe I could allow anachronisms, but they must be in italics. Otherwise I'll be subtracting points from you. You don't want that, I assure you. ;) )

I shall be a prophet; not the Mod God, but the kon Vayor of his wishes. (Don't ask. Just wait for the opening post. :D )

[Cailín]

Ai, Nilp, stealing my brilliant ideas! I should... I should...

Oh, this is só mean. I cannot possibly sign up unless you postpone the start till Tuesday at the earliest. But then, I do really not want to miss this game. *sulks*

[Anguirel]

Postpone the start Nilp! We can't let Cailinimedes the Great Inventor miss out.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

For you, Cailín, it will be moved. :) Tuesday it is.

Okay, speaking of times . . . there shall be two choices. I wish to know which one's more convenient for the majority.

1. Game cycles at 5:30am, GMT. No fluctuations.

2. Game cycles at 8:00am, GMT, although on Saturdays it will be 2-3 hours earlier.

So, I need two opinions now:

~ The other roles (Hunter, Ranger, Cobbler, etc.)

~ The DAY/NIGHT cycle time.

[Lhunardawen]

Mwahaha! It's your turn to suffer from timezones! *evil smilie*

Well, to some extent.

I'll go with option 2, 8:00 AM GMT.

Hunter, Ranger the same. I'm not very sure about the Cobbler or a Cursed. Will the Seeriffs be enough to counteract the four wolves? Or is the scale heavier on one side?

[tar-ancalime]

I prefer the first choice for the time cycle, but both are better-than-average for me.

Now, as to other roles--

I'd like to see a Hunter and Ranger who can pm each other as in the last game.

[Farael]

well, for us in North America it might be better starting at 5 30 GMT as it'd be around midnight for most of us... but then, it's a little unfair on our Brittish counterparts (Wait, will this hamper Saucepan Wolf? hmmmm :smokin: ) Anyway, I cast my vote for 8 GMT. North Americans may have to vote a few hours early but it would give Brittish (And most European I guess) people a chance to vote before the deadline.

I must admit to be ignorant of Timezones in Europe though, so those of you who actually live there should speak up now or hold your peace for ever.... or 'till the end of the current WW game, whichever happens first :D

[Lhunardawen]

~ And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the Lovers cannot be the mod and a player. (sigh from the mod)Barfs, anyone? :rolleyes:

:p

[Cailín]

Yay! Thanks Nilp.

As for roles, just a plain Hunter and Ranger would do, I suppose. The cursed or cobbler doesn't seem like a clever idea: might be overdoing all the intrigues. Also, to add another team and make the Hunter and Ranger Shiriffs might be overdoing it.

I vote 8:00 GMT, obviously. :)

Also, Nilp, did you decide on boy/girl lovers or just random, which would allow for boy/boy and girl/girl lovers?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

You will be punished, Lhuna. Mod God's will.

The Hunter and Ranger will be ordinary ones. I can't have two blocks of talking gifted, could I? Even 4 or 5 Bad Guys would have trouble with that one. (I think.)

Cailín, it will be Male/Female.

[Lalaith]

Boy/girl only - wouldn't that make things too easy to figure out?

[Cailín]

I agree Lalaith, to a certain degree. Of course I understand that a romantic spirit like Nilp's (seconding Lhuna's barf :p ) would find the male/female version more appealing, but we should ensure the game is at least relatively balanced then.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

1. dancing spawn of ungoliant f
2. Kath f
3. Lhunardawen f
4. Caranlondien f
5. tar-ancalime f
6. Cailín f

7. Garin m
8. Formendacil m
9. littlemanpoet m
10. Glirdan m
11. Farael m
12. Anguirel m
13. Eomer m

7:6. We need 3 more males, and 4 more females then. Although I think the ratio wouldn't matter much. I mean, what would you do, institute a scorched-earth policy and lynch all the Males/Females?

(Speaking of which, there will be NO DOUBLE-LYNCHING. I kinda like it myself, but for this game it might be too much. Unless the village thinks otherwise.)

[Cailín]

7:6. We need 3 more males, and 4 more females then. Although I think the ratio wouldn't matter much. I mean, what would you do, institute a scorched-earth policy and lynch all the Males/Females?

*coughs* considering the line-up, I wouldn't put it past some people on there. :cool:

But it might lead to interesting ... unfair, gender-biased discussions anyway. I'm in favour.

[Farael]

Re. Doubly Lynching: We have two seers, Ranger and Cobbler, plus one of the two lovers who could come forward. That'd kick 5 people out of the list, which is a third (or fourth) of the starting village. By the time they do decide to come forward, it might just kick half of the village out of suspicion, a couple double-lynchings and it's either a villager win (the lover wolf gets hung) or a lover win (the two non-lover wolves get lynched)

By the way, from what I gather, if the two lovers survive (i.e: the other two wolves get killed before them) it's a lover's win... isn't that too easy? The lover wolf tells the Lover non-wolf the names of the other lupines... then the non-wolvish lover persuades the village to go after two of the three werewolves (one at the time) and unless someone realizes this trick and lynchs the lover first, it'd be a lover win rather than a villager win.

On the other hand, did I get it all wrong? maybe the lovers only win if they survive together into the last day (lover-lover +someone else)

P.S: Why barfing Lhuna? love is such a wonderful thing.... but then, he's your brother... if any guys get within shouting range of my sister, they are mercilessly glared upon by me, so I guess I understand you =P
P.P.S: Someone tell SPW to join in, I want my revenge.

[Cailín]

On the other hand, did I get it all wrong? maybe the lovers only win if they survive together into the last day (lover-lover +someone else)

This is indeed the case. :) Besides, the Lover would never come forward: she or he'd be lynched immediately.

[Farael]

This is indeed the case. :) Besides, the Lover would never come forward: she or he'd be lynched immediately.
I got it wrong so it's a moot point, but a deal could be cut if the village is down 5 innocents and without any clues of whom the wolves may be. I was sort of hoping that'd be the case as it'd make for an interesting scenario of possible back-stabbings and such. Yet I just realized something. If the lover decides to come forward he could give out the name of the two non-lover WW for a double-lynch... problem is, the following day he'd get lynched... hmmmm ok, I don't see a way for it to work for a lover as it is now, but it'd be interesting to see the possible scenarios.
*writes it down for his own game, perhaps the lovers will not die together*

Still, thanks Cailin.

[Anguirel]

On the Male/Female issue: if it can work with separated sexes, I'm also for it. I mean, Achilles/Patroclus devotion has its place in literature...but I think Werewolf is controversial enough without diving into the risque!

Besides, with the damsels recruited so far, whoever the male lover is he's going to have a lot of fun...

[The Saucepan Man]

Hidden/coded messages

Well, the general consensus seems to be that hidden and coded messages are OK because they can work both ways and cannot be taken as a guarantee of someone’s innocence (or Gifted-ness). It would, in any event, be virtually impossible to regulate any restriction in this area.

The other issue, which Shelob has explained well, is the extent to which those who are new to the game, or who tend to play less than others, may be disadvantaged by “senior” players using techniques tried and tested in previous games. Again, I don’t think that there is any way to get round this problem. It is inevitable that people will use their prior knowledge of strategies, players and previous games generally as part of their strategy or deduction method, even if they do not state so explicitly.

A side issue for me had been, "why on earth would some innocents want to keep secrets from other innocents?" Here's my point: some of us, when innocents, ain't that great at reading codes, anagrams, and what-not. Any innocents who convey crucial information through codes, run the risk of some fellow innocents not getting it.I agree that there is little sense in innocents keeping secrets from other innocents, but it is really up to them whether they choose to publicise any codes that they have been using, and also up to the other players to try to spot them (if they feel so inclined). In WW17, where Nilp and I were both innocents and exchanged acrostics to that effect, we ended up giving some pretty heavy pointers to the messages. Our reason for doing it had not been based on any wish to conceal relevant information from other villagers, but merely the natural impulse of born riddlers. Nevertheless, there may be good reason why two or more players would want to keep information divulged by a hidden message to themselves, for example to avoid pointing out a Gifted hint to a Wolf. As long as the messaging is “open” in the sense that it occurs on the game thread, I don’t see a problem.

Interestingly, the Night before this all came up in WW18, the three of us Wolves had considered agreeing some sort of code-word to trigger, for example, a Wolf sacrifice and had wondered whether it would be within the rules. We were going to seek a ruling from Shemod, but then shelved the idea when hidden messages became an issue the next Day.

Ultimately, it is a matter for the mod of each game to set his or her own rules for that game. As a general rule, I think that anything not specifically outlawed should be fair game. And any mod thinking of introducing restrictions on hidden messages etc will need to think long and hard about it, because they will need to be carefully defined, not interfere unduly with the game-play and be capable of enforcement.

Speaking of which I didn't decipher all of them and would like to know what they all said. I picked up on the majority but not all.I’ll identify the ones that I spotted on the game thread, if you like.

However, I wish to go on the record now, since I was unwilling to do so earlier, that I was most irritated and displeased at the irrational and immature behaviour that arose when LMP discovered something new.I think that I probably have to take some responsibility here. It was probably a mistake for me openly to suggest that I would withdraw from the game if that was the majority decision. I should instead have raised it discretely with Shemod. I can honestly state that it was not intended to secure me any game advantage (and I don’t think that it did), but I was genuinely fuming at the time at the suggestion that I had been cheating.

On a more general note, I have noticed a tendency in a number of recent games for game-related issues to give rise to RL emotional issues and quarrels. I think that we all need to remember (and I include myself here) that these are just games and that, despite all the deception, backstabbing and gruesome narrative descriptions, nothing personal is (or should be) meant by them.

Nilp’s game

It’s tempting, very tempting … but I really ought to give it a break so that I can devote proper attention to work and family, and also to other aspects of this forum. Sorry, Nilp, I would love to play but I am going to have to sit it out. I will be keeping an eye on it, though.

Sorry, Farael, your revenge will have to wait. :D

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Leave your family! Leave your country! This is the Promised Land!!!

(Sorry, can't resist. :D )

Awww . . . well, I guess I'll avenge myself some other way. ;)

[littlemanpoet]

I wish to go on the record now, since I was unwilling to do so earlier, that I was most irritated and displeased at the irrational and immature behaviour that arose when LMP discovered something new. Sorry, LMP, I hold you in high regard normally, but your behaviour smacked of "well, if we can't play it my way, I'm not playing".

I was most disappointed.
I appreciate your honesty, Formy. And I think that you are quite right. Such antics will not be seen from me again in Werewolf, or out of it. There were more reasonable ways of handling such issues. Please accept my apologies. It's just a game and things within the game should not be taken personally, because that's not how they're meant. I hope I've learned that lesson .... yet again. :rolleyes:

[Gurthang]

First, I vote for the 5:30am time slot. It'd let me see the outcome of each Night/Day before I headed to bed every night, and let me post a quick something as soon as each Day started.

Having Lovers is going to be pretty wild. I can definitely see it changing the game a lot, as in sudden twists. Good thing I like crazy.

I shall be occupied as an arrowsmith... arrowmaker... whatever it's called; you get the idea.

Just to clarify, we have 2 Seers, 4 Wolves, 1 Ranger, 1 Hunter, No Cursed, No Cobbler, No Bear, 2 Lovers.
Seers PM anytime, Wolves PM anytime, Ranger-Hunter no PM, Lovers 1 every 24 hrs. (I assume that means 1 each, so they can send and get one reply.)

Game starts Tuesday? (Good, that's after all my tests!)

[Anguirel]

I semi-urgently vote for 8:00am GMT. Otherwise us lot will never get involved in the pre-eviction rush, which is always so entertaining...

[the guy who be short]

I vote for 5:30.

The Lovers can PM each other only once during a 24-hour period (DAY or NIGHT).Difficult to inforce, plus seems pointless. Why?

Lovers... while male/female is more conventional, what if the village lynches all the men or women? I think this'll make things a little too easy for all sides except the Lovers.


as for occupation, even though I'm tempted of actually being the town's Nilp, I wouldn't want to seem to be doing a parody of your antics.... thus, I shall be the town's "Escaped mental asylum internee who suffers a cronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories"
If you won't go the whole hog, I shall.

I'm going to be the Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator. I also fish. ;)

[Celuien]

Anakronisms? New roles? Fascinating. :)

Count me in. Job selection etc. to come later.

[Naria]

Ok, ok prophet Nilp. I'll play sign me up! :D Oh, and I don't think that Caranlondien is a chick, I'm pretty sure he's a he...just going by his profile :p :)

[Valier]

Alright since I see you need a few more females....I'll play! I will have to vote early most of the time, due to time zones, but it shouldn't be too bad. This one better not give me nightmares of you Nilp hidding everywhere in my house again!! Well I guess this time you won't be asking me to kill you....:D :p

[Celuien]

Times: either option one or two works. Though I will most likely be voting early by a couple of hours, particularly with the 8:00 day-start.

As for occupation, it seems that this town is in need of a psychiatrist. :p But if that is not permitted, I'll be the candle-maker.

[Lalaith]

query - this is a big game, how long do you think it will last?

[The Saucepan Man]

query - this is a big game, how long do you think it will last?WW18, which was a 19 player game with no double-lynchings lasted a gruelling ( ;) ) 16 (real time) days, or something like that ... :eek:

[Lalaith]

Hmmm...I could manage about a fortnight and a bit....
PS Is it true that Americans find the word 'fortnight' hilarious?

[Formendacil]

I appreciate your honesty, Formy. And I think that you are quite right. Such antics will not be seen from me again in Werewolf, or out of it. There were more reasonable ways of handling such issues. Please accept my apologies. It's just a game and things within the game should not be taken personally, because that's not how they're meant. I hope I've learned that lesson .... yet again. :rolleyes:

Apology accepted. As I said, I normally hold you in high esteem- and that includes Werewolf.

Meanwhile, regarding Nilp's timing...

I actually think that 8:00 am GMT would be the better for me. Yes, it's one o'clock in the morning over here in the Mountain Standard Timezone, but I'm so often awake, online, getting back from work at that time that it's the more advantageous timeframe in my opinion.

So I'm siding with Europe. :p

[Naria]

The timezones matter not to me. 5:30am GMT would work better, it would be 12am where I am, but 8am GMT also works. I would just have to vote a little earlier than I normally would. And I wouldn't be back on for the next DAY until between 9:30 or 10:00am my time, which I think would be 4:00am GMT(?) :)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think we should cut out the Hunter and the Ranger.

4 wolves? 2 lovers? 2 seers? It could all get a bit much, don't you think?

[Naria]

I think we should cut out the Hunter and the Ranger.

4 wolves? 2 lovers? 2 seers? It could all get a bit much, don't you think?


Eomer I would agree with you as far as the Hunter is concerned, but I am not so inclined on the Ranger. With having 4 wolves and 1 of the lovers trying to do their best to save one of those wolves(other lover), wouldn't we need some kind of protection? I would even go so far as to have 2 Rangers, if enough people signed up that is. But since this isn't my game :rolleyes: ....I would definatley have to agree on having at least one Ranger! :D

[Gurthang]

Hmmm...I could manage about a fortnight and a bit....
PS Is it true that Americans find the word 'fortnight' hilarious?

I don't know about hilarious, but I wouldn't be surprised if most Americans don't know what it means. (Yes, I do know what it means. :p I suspect most Barrowdowners would, too, as it is in the book.)

I think we should cut out the Hunter and the Ranger.

4 wolves? 2 lovers? 2 seers? It could all get a bit much, don't you think?

That was my initial reaction, too, but I think it'll work out alright. one of the wolves is one of the lovers, so we would have a total of 7 special roles without the ranger and hunter, and 9 with. I remember one game (WWVII, I think. And, you Eomer should remember that game well.) where there were three wolves, two shirriffs, a hunter, a seer, a ranger, and a cobbler for a total of 9 special roles. I think it will work fine if we keep the ranger and hunter, but I won't cry if they go.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fair points (especially about the lover-werewolf: didn't catch onto that so quickly :rolleyes: ;) )

[Garin]

I say, the more roles the better, sorry to see there isn't a cursed because that is such an innocuous- shot in the dark- role and rarely comes to fruition--Why cast it away?

I like the boy/girls split, it reminds me of elementary school.

The lovers being m/f.. Well, when the lovers role first came about I asked whether they would be hetero AND homosexual. The conclusion given to me was that, yes, bisexuality would rule.

However, I must commend Nilp for figuring out the solution by evening up the number of sexes.

I like Anguirel and The Guy Who Be Short, I just don't think of them-- in that way. Sorry, fellas.

So, I'm fine with that.

C'mon Nilp! try the random werebear I mentioned on The Guy's thread and then the Ranger and the Hunter coould communicate to even things.

I hope you have enough time for all this... Best wishes

Oh, and I'll deal with any time-frame.

[Cailín]

I saw Dancing Spawn's sum-up and suddenly was reminded of one of my rainy day projects (as in - I'm a total werewolf-addict). I know you all wish to know. Or possibly not. Anyway, I've read all 'official' games and just like Spawn did, I tried keeping track of a few things. Essentially, I made an overview of all players and their roles in the game. Due to lack of time and patience I have (for now) not included the Junior games.

Some random notions:

Been a wolf three times or more (ergo: watch out):

Holbytlass, Eomer and Spawn.

Been a Gifted three times or more:

Anguirel, Firefoot, Mormegil, Kath, Lhunardawen

Been an Ordinary for the longest period:

Surprisingly enough, it is actually Gil-Galad, who has been an Ordo for six games in a row now.

Most Heroic:

Close call between Firefoot, who was only a wolf one time and had a Gift four times, and Lhuna, who has never been a wolf in the official games and covered all the standard Gifts. How ironic we usually find her so suspicious.

Most Wolvish:

Surprise, Surprise. Eomer has been a wolf no less than four times (five if you include WWJ) and is therefore a clear winner.

Most Frustrated:

Nilpaurion, without a doubt. Eight games and never evil, nor Gifted - except for being a Shiriff once.

Most noticable:

Holbytlass has a pattern. She was a Seer in her first game, then wolf, then ordo, then wolf, then ordo, then wolf and then a Seer again. How odd.

Okay - I'll leave you all alone now. Heh. :o

--

P.S. Garin, the Cursed has been turned twice so far and both times it ensured a Wolvish victory. In a game such as this, it would definitely be too much.

Also, I believe the Lovers will add quite enough to the game, so if it weren't for the fact that the game would become seriously unbalanced, I'd support Eomer and say no Ranger or Hunter.

May I add, by the way, that it is quite likely none of us girls think of you 'that way' either? :p

[Glirdan]

If there's room, I'll play. And don't worry, my participation should be up to usual...I hope....

If I can play, well let me be a......hmmm.... how about I let you decide. ;)

Starts Tuesday?? I can live with that, especially since I'm on March Break and NOT going anywhere.

Time zones... hmmm...I'll fiugre that one out in a bit and get back to you...

[Garin]

P.S. Garin, the Cursed has been turned twice so far and both times it ensured a Wolvish victory. In a game such as this, it would definitely be too much.

I simply like the idea of a cursed, It is such an intriguing unknown for both the wolves and the innocents.

Plus, I am inclined towards the wolves a bit because they have killed me far less (zero) than the lousy villagers have. (100% as a jealous Nilp was happy to point out.)

May I add, by the way, that it is quite likely none of us girls think of you 'that way' either

Such unwarranted animosity!
I'm actually quite attractive... just ask the NOOSE.

Also, I believe the Lovers will add quite enough to the game, so if it weren't for the fact that the game would become seriously unbalanced, I'd support Eomer and say no Ranger or Hunter.

Sure, support the one you just declared the most Wolvish, I see how you are.

[Anguirel]

Don't worry Garin, I love you.

Though I'm not sure how much comfort that is...

[Eonwe]

Is there room in the inn of one such as I, a wayfareing stranger amongst strange folk?

[the guy who be short]

The cursed is pointless, and always has been, I feel.

They don't know they're cursed. That's my main argument against them. They just function as a normal villager who might be magic, but nobody at all knows it.

If they knew what they were, it would add interest. Whilst on the villager team, the cursed would try to help - but if it looked like they might be killed in the night, they would have to try to get themself lynched!

Anywho. Just my thoughts on the most pointless role.

[Naria]

Anyone have suggestions in regards to occupations, I'm afraid I'm a wee bit nieve when it comes to Hildorien times.

[Caranlondien]

Oh, and I don't think that Caranlondien is a chick, I'm pretty sure he's a he

Haha, actually I am a she... Monty Python quote :rolleyes: I can't help myself. I'm good for either time slot; Can't wait for the fun to begin!

[Naria]

Well, I'm off to a great start, already being fooled...lol :D Still weird though....'she' Caran ;)

[Caranlondien]

Yeah, instead of being creative I just used one of the names that came up under "female" in the name generator... My brother objected that it doesn't provide an actual translation of your name, but I'd already made an account, so that's that. lol...Sorry about the confusion!

[Garin]

TGBWS: The cursed is pointless, and always has been, I feel.

They don't know they are cursed but it is a nice anomaly to have floating about. It doesn't always come to fruition but is an intriguing 'what if', in my opinion.

A cobbler/cursed might assuage you Guy. The wolves wouldn't know his/her identity and the cobblursed would be torn between backing the wolves and thus face lynching or tempt the wolves to kill him/her.

[Garin]

Anguirel: Don't worry Garin, I love you

I just can't quit you Ang.

Now, let's go herd some sheep.

But, seriously...

[tar-ancalime]

What's nice about this game is that we'll all have to pay attention and refer to each other with the correct pronouns. I have to say I'm a little tired of people thinking I'm a guy.

Now, about the Cursed:

It's true that what's nice about the Cursed is the unknown quality; but this game is going to be full of unknowns, as we're trying out a fairly disruptive concept. I'm in favor of eliminating the Cursed if only to ensure that we get as pure an experiment with the Lovers as possible (fewer variables). We're all quite comfortable with the ways that the Hunter and Ranger tend to play out, and that's why I'm in favor of using them. It just seems to me that none of the other innovations are helpful enough to the villagers to leave them unprotected by a Ranger, and the Hunter has always carried a double-edged sword at best--when I was the Seer in wwj3 I was taken down by the Hunter very early in the game.

That's actually why I like the Hunter and the Ranger who are also Shirriffs--it helps consolidate the advantages of these two roles, and makes the Hunter a little less of a loose cannon. But I concede that in this game it might be too much to add yet another pair of communicators to the many that we will already have.

Enough about that.

Lalaith posted:

PS Is it true that Americans find the word 'fortnight' hilarious?

Yes.

Gurthang posted:

Having Lovers is going to be pretty wild.

Just remember to call them the next morning, won't you?

[SamwiseGamgee]

Hey, Nilp. I know it's late, but any chance there's still room in the new village for me?

[mormegil]

Next game? Perhaps...depends on timing and some other issues. I don't want to continually take up a spot if there are other. I think I've been in the most games overall :rolleyes: ...if not me than SpM ;)

I didn't seem to make the list Nilp made which is okay. I'm willing to fill in if you have a vacant slot but I'm fine with sitting too...as Spawn pointed out I'm too great an addict and should give it a break, though Kath will be catching me.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Vzv, there are three immediate death rules you need to remember (forgot to post them yesterday . . . )

~ Except during DAY 1, an unexcused absence means immediate elimination. By 'excused' I mean previously mentioned in this thread. If you go absent for a reason unforeseeable (meaning you didn't post a reason prior to the absence), make sure it's a really good reason and the Mod God will decide your fate.

~ Three no-votes = death. No excuses.

~ Three DAYs of absence, excused or not = death. C'mon, Three DAYs, that's like half the game!

As for the players:

Female

1. dancing spawn of ungoliant - laundress
2. Kath
3. Lhunardawen
4. Caranlondien
5. tar-ancalime - witch
6. Cailín
7. Celuien - psychiatrist
8. Naria - midwife
9. Valier
10. Lalaith - rich young widow
11. Thinlómien

Male

11. Garin
12. Formendacil
13. littlemanpoet
14. Glirdan
15. Farael - escaped mental asylum internee who suffers a chronic suicidal tendency and conspiracy theories
16. Anguirel - wood-madman
17. Eomer
18. Gurthang - arrowsmith
19. the guy who be short - Nilp fan, stalker and impersonator and fisherman
20. Eonwe
21. SamwiseGamgee (I just had to fit him in! :D )

Times poll:

(NOTE: I'm moving the second option half an hour later--on Tuesdays and Fridays by 8am GMT I'm just leaving class.)

5:30 am - tar-an, Gurthang, daga'y, Naria, Samwise

8:30 am - Lhuna, Farael, Cailín, Ang, Form, Lalaith

The others need to chip in their choices.

Post-traumatic possum: I would like to ask: Does a mod need be invisible?

[Naria]

I'll be a mid-wife going ever so slightly mad with each birth! :eek: :D

[Farael]

I love it how insanity seems to be spreading around..... is it Nilp's influence? is it the fact that players have finally caught up on the interesting theory that by being always random you are likely to survive day 1? (but conversely, not make it past day 3)

[Gurthang]

I love it how insanity seems to be spreading around..... is it Nilp's influence? is it the fact that players have finally caught up on the interesting theory that by being always random you are likely to survive day 1? (but conversely, not make it past day 3)

Logically speaking, if we were all truely random, then one of us would still die on Day 1 and some of us would have to live past Day 3. :p :D

But, yes, randomness can be so much more fun.

[Thinlómien]

I was invited by Nilp (few days ago and made my decision only today), but I'm wondering whether you're still having room for more players.

If it makes mess that I play, I don't necessarily have to...

[Anguirel]

I shall be a Wood-Madman dwelling in the Woods. Armed with a sizeable axe.

[Lhunardawen]

...and Lhuna, who has never been a wolf in the official games and covered all the standard Gifts. How ironic we usually find her so suspicious. Hear! Hear! ;)

An occupation, huh? Hmm...I'll be less crazy and less haughty for now - it always gets me in trouble. :rolleyes: Let me get back to you on that.

PLEASE vote for the 8:30 time slot! :)

[Lalaith]

Both 8.30am and 5.30am are going to be pretty hard for me to be around at the cut for....but I'll go for 8.30am as a preference.

Could we have a precis of agreed rules btw? I'm still confused about roles and lovers and so on.
One thing - forgive me if it's been mentioned before, I haven't gone through the whole discussion - about the lovers that's worrying me.
Let us say that the wolves are two boys and a girl. The villager lover (a boy) is lynched. When his status is revealed, the wolves will know straight away that their girl teammate is the other lover. Does this matter? And vice-versa, if a wolf is lynched who turns out to be a lover, the other villagers will know the gender of the lover amongst them, which depending on the numbers left, could cause problems.

[Lhunardawen]

Lalaith, if one Lover dies, so will the other. Tragic, but inevitable.

[Thinlómien]

Am I correct that if I'm counted in we have too many females and too few males?

[tar-ancalime]

I didn't realize we were choosing occupations already. I'll be a witch.

[Lalaith]

Ah, thank you Lhuna. As you can see, I really *do* need that precis of the rules.

[Lalaith]

I'll be the rich young widow.
(Who danced her elderly spouse into an early grave)
Lommy, I think if you're in it'll be eleven-a-side. Twenty-two players, biggest game evah... :eek:
Of course it's all up to Mighty Mod Nilp.

[Thinlómien]

But if we're having eleven males, we surely have to have eleven females as well! So if I'm not in, the last male signed in is not either.

[tar-ancalime]

Heavens, that is a big game! Are we having double lynchings? (It might not be a bad idea with such a large cast.)

[Lalaith]

Well yes Lommy, I would have thought your addition would be welcome rather than not.

[Thinlómien]

:)

We actually must have double lynchings, but it's up to ModGodNilp.

What special roles except lovers are we having?

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

PLEASE vote for the 8:30 time slot! :)
I second that.

I think we should cut out the Hunter and the Ranger.
I second that, but then again...

I think it will work fine if we keep the ranger and hunter, but I won't cry if they go.
...I second that, too.


Wow, I have no own opinions today. As to my occupation, I'll be a laundress.


tar-ancalime, this is what Nilp said about double lynchings:

(Speaking of which, there will be NO DOUBLE-LYNCHING. I kinda like it myself, but for this game it might be too much. Unless the village thinks otherwise.)

We actually must have double lynchings Why?

[SamwiseGamgee]

I'm going to vote for the 5:30am timeframe. Reason being: I'm just not going to be up for either, but with my night owl lifestyle I'll be able to vote later with the earlier time. Fuzzy logic, but what the hey!

As for an occupation. Hmmm, always the best but most difficult bit of WW. However, after much consideration I shall be the town bank manager. I'm a ruthless power-monger who is desperate to get to the bright lights and financial glory of Minas Tirith. My life philosophy is the good old 'Greed is good!'

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

~ I added Lommy in. I've invited her yesterday but forgot to put her name on the first list. (Sorry!) Here's the edited list (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=452028#post452028)

~ Double-lynchings are back in (due to village size; this might take long if I don't.) Triple-lynches and higher are not.

~ Erm, Samwise, Minas Tirith (1st or 2nd) hasn't existed yet. You can be a plain bank manager (note italics) if you like.

~ Precis of rules tomorrow! Vzv I still need everyone's opinion on the other roles (Hunter, Ranger, etc.) and on the times.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I was hoping nobody would notice that, Nilp! Curse your eagle eyes! Well maybe I am just a Bank Manager, but I'm still ambitious. Oh yeah.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Cailín dear, you exaggerate my evil ways. I've been a wolf 3 times and a wonderful and brave tragic hero once. Overall I've struck a decent balance between the two sides.

The timeframe of the game does not bother me in the slightest, so I'll vote for whichever one Lhuna chose. :D

And if I may resurrect my favourite ever role (the role which famously got me lynched on the first day of Fea's game) I will be the Royal Musician. Who is our reigning monarch?

[Thinlómien]

8:30 is better for me, because then some days, I might be able to be online in the last critical minutes.

Spawn, I thought we must have double-lynchings because otherwise the game will never end (is that a good or a bad thing, that can be argued) and I also thought that the wolves don't have any chances if it's not possible to kill to innocents at one time. But now I've learned that we have four wolves, so it's not that important point anymore.

I would like to see a ranger in the game, but I can play without one. Hunter is all the same for me.

And my profession will be something less noble than most of yours... Hmm.... I will be a mushroom-picker.

[Valier]

I shall be the Small, Sweet, Sheep Shearer!:D

I think we should at least have one Ranger!

I will vote for the 5:30 time, as this is like 11:30 pm my time, the other is at 2:30am my time so it would make it hard for me to stay awake for the vote.

[Thinlómien]

Who is our reigning monarch? Lord Nilpaurion from the House of Daga?

And Nilp I think it's better that the mod isn't invisible, so that the if there are some problems the players can immediately see if we can contact you or not. Or, we may be able to use the Lhuna-line, of course.

[Kath]

With either time slot I will have to vote pretty early, but in that case either is fine.

As for occupation, hmm, I liked being a turtle farmer.

[Cailín]

Oh yes, occupations.

I shall be the town gossip, if that's all right. It would definitely suit me. :o

[Glirdan]

I think (I'm probably wrong on this because my time zone differences are still rather rusty) that 5:30am is probably better for me. Anyone in the Eastern Time zone to verify that? :o

[JennyHallu]

Eastern Standard Time is GMT - 5.

So the 5:30 AM time corresponds to 12:30 AM EST, and 8:00 AM to 3:00 AM EST.

[Glirdan]

Ok, thanks Jenny. Yeah, let's go with 5:30am.

[Celuien]

My vote is to keep the ranger and hunter. Village is big enough that it doesn't tip the gifted ratio too much. Plus, with the new secret team, I think the village needs all the help it can get.

The times really don't make that much difference to me being that I'll probably have to be asleep at voting time with either option. However, since there might be times when I can make it to the deadline with the 5:30 AM option, I'll vote for it.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Having gone back through the thread with a more studious eye after my second post on this game was wrong- I was talking about the concept of Minas Tirith, like a dream, you know? You've seen Gladiator, you know what I mean!- and it is my considered position that Ranger and Hunter should be in there, defanayetelee! But answer me this: can the lovers win if their respective team wins, or does that count as a loss for them?

[Gurthang]

My vote is to keep the ranger and hunter. Village is big enough that it doesn't tip the gifted ratio too much. Plus, with the new secret team, I think the village needs all the help it can get.

I agree with you about the Ranger and the Hunter, but I don't think that the village will need any help. I think the wolves are the ones that will be losing a huge advantage. Up until this game, the wolves have always known who was on there side(except for the cobbler), and so could assume that eveyone else was against them. This made it a unified three against a very quarrelsome 15ish. Now, it might be a quarrelsome four against a quarrelsome 18ish. Definitely puts them at a huge disadvantage.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Figures, the one game where I'd be able to quote Romeo and Juliet to my heart's content, I have to be too late to sign up for... Ay me! (:P)

And to Lalaith, I'm in agreement with Gurthang, most Americans probably wouldn't say that "fortnight" is hilarious, but they probably don't know what it means either.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Abercrombie, I may be a banker bent on Middle-Earth financial domination, but I am a well read man, and I should count it an honour to quote some of the good stuff as often as possible on your behalf. Mind, if I'm going to get lynched for it your dream will die. Sorry. :p

[Eonwe]

How's about warfareing stranger? Does that fit with our timeperiod?

[Anguirel]

I also vote for the Hunter and Ranger. We need our gallant warriors!

[Lhunardawen]

The timeframe of the game does not bother me in the slightest, so I'll vote for whichever one Lhuna chose. :D No, Eomer, I still don't forgive you. :p

An occupation, now. Hmm...I shall be a Dark Elf. Literally.

[Lhunardawen]

Uuuhh...daga.

Tigilan mo nga...!

Enedwaith, Hunter and Ranger are in. I need time choices from the other players. Come on, apathetic ones, make a choice even for aesthetic purposes. I need a majority decision.

Lhuna: PLEASE vote 8:30!!!

Daga, tigil.

That's all.

'Yun na 'yon?

[littlemanpoet]

Hunter and Ranger in.

Double lynchings in, agree (for what it's worth).

I don't care regarding times, however being Eastern Standard, if it's 8 am GMT I will not be around for the last 3 hours of the Day and will have to vote before then each Day.

I'm a stone cutter. If you need a rationale for a stone cutter in Hildorien, I'll be happy to provide it .... if needed.

Is there anything I missed?

[Lalaith]

Oh and I definitely support double lynches, to speed things up...and Hunter and Ranger too please.

[Glirdan]

I'm also going to agree with double lynchings (against my better judgement mind you) and our Guardians.

[SamwiseGamgee]

I'm going to disagree with double lynchings. I would have agreed with mass lynchings, on the basis that if I were a villager with just one wolf left I'd want a way out, but I think that double lynchings are a shot in the foot. It doesn't look like my vote will matter anyway, but I just wanted to voice it.

[Caranlondien]

Okay, I guess I'm one of those apathetic ones who's being asked to vote... :( Sorry, I have to say 5:30.

[Gurthang]

I'm going to disagree with double lynchings. I would have agreed with mass lynchings, on the basis that if I were a villager with just one wolf left I'd want a way out, but I think that double lynchings are a shot in the foot. It doesn't look like my vote will matter anyway, but I just wanted to voice it.

Ooh. I'll echo that. Limiting it to a double almost makes the villagers want to do one, but a mass lynching makes it almost less likely. And, if the wolves play it right, a mass lynching can actually be played for their advantage.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Double lynchings are horrible. Especially with all these gifteds. They all declare themselves as gifted and then the village just double-lynches its way to victory. Double lynchings remove a lot of fun from the game. The best way for fun is to have single lynchings and fewer gifteds.

Plus, everyone wants their own death. Who wants to share a death scene with someone else (barring the Hunter's death, of course)? We should all get a turn in the spotlight.

[Glirdan]

On second thought, I will go with my gut instinct and say no double lynchings. It really does take the fun out of the game. I mean come on!! There would be less paranoia and I know we all want paranoisa. :D

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm back from my trip and (finally) recovered from my jet lag. It looks like this game is already pretty much underway, so instead of participating, I'll read along and look forward to the next one. This one looks really cool. I can't wait to see what turns up. Lovers is a really interesting twist!

In other words, watch out for me in a couple of weeks.

Unless, that is, there is room for me, in which case I'd love to join in! :) I am a female, which I hope is obvious, if that makes any difference.

[Boromir88]

Azaelia if you are itchin' to get back into WW, I encourage you to join Mithalwen's WWJ (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12671) that will hopefully be starting up soon. It'll be back to the original gaming. :cool:

[JennyHallu]

Yes! Please do! We are eager for more players!

[littlemanpoet]

I changed my mind. I disagree with double lynchings. I see no real problem with the game taking a few days longer. Thanks for your eloquence, Eomer; good reminder. .... signed, the most unbandersnatchy LMP.

[Formendacil]

Due to the fact that I thought the issue was settled (Nilp! What did I tell you about putting down your foot as Mod? You are Mod and they are not!), I have not yet weighed in on the Double Lynchings issue.

I say NO Double-Lynchings.

I do not like them, and I agree with Eomer as to most of my reasons why.

I find that Double-Lynchings being permitted are very prone to being used for orchestrated lynchings. I'm personally of the opinion that Single Lynchings are more truly indicative on later days for finding voting trends, and they are more enjoyable games.

Just my opinion, o' course.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Well, isn't this interesting? I go out on a limb and say no to double lynchings and before I know it everybody agrees with me? I've started a bandwagon, and that's very suspicious!

++ SamwiseGamgee

Oh, wait a moment... :eek: can't do that! But the real point: when will the game start? I haven't been able to find the date, but I imagine that's entirely my fault because I just didn't look. :rolleyes:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I believe it starts on Tuesday.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Thankee, kind sir!

[Garin]

Long time, No Garin.
I had to make an excellent spinach-artichoke dip for a 'baby shower' yesterday and then had to attend said baby shower. If you could just see the looks on the face of the men...

Great time

Okay.

1) No double lynchings

2) I said I didn't care but 5:30 if I must vote....

3) I will be the town surgeon/barber

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I thought the decision of double lynchings was already made:
~ Double-lynchings are back in (due to village size; this might take long if I don't.) Triple-lynches and higher are not.

At first I didn't want to have the double lynchings either. I agree with Eomer about them, but let's face it: this village is huge. With 22 players the game might take almost three weeks if the villagers are killed just one by one, and it is quite a commitment to moderate such a big game. It should be up to Nilp to decide whether he allows double lynchings or not because he's the one who needs to get online punctually, write death scenes and manage the game from the beginning till the end for nearly three weeks.

[Lalaith]

Exactly. My concern is that it is hard for anyone without the gift of foresight to be able to commit to such a long period of time without RL jeopardising their ability to play.
It is always annoying when players have to absent themselves, even through unforeseen circumstances, and I fear a very long game might be riddled with such absences.
Eg I was originally told the game would last a fortnight, which is fine, but without double lynchings this game could run on for well over three weeks...I'm going on holiday on April 4 and I hope the game would be over by then, but there may be others with similar concerns, what with it being Easter break...

[Garin]

but without double lynchings this game could run on for well over three weeks...

I disagree but I have a rather consistent lynch potential, this is why Nilp should add the cursed or the werebear.

I say more roles should trump double lynches.

I know 'tis more work for Modilp but I must quote a classic movie:

Shanna, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash

[Garin]

I thought the decision of double lynchings was already made

I realized that but I wanted to add discourse to the the WW community and haven't been able to in the past few days so, being a relentless windbag, I though I'd opine on the discussion.

[littlemanpoet]

I thought the decision of double lynchings was already made...In post # 2412 (http://www.forums.barrowdowns.com./showpost.php?p=452070&postcount=2412) Nilpaurion said double lynchings are in. However, votes were requested, and therefore some of us voted ... late. Quite a few of us have apparently thus registered our preference for no double lynchings; despite that, Nilpaurion still has not changed his ruling; therefore, as things now stand (unless Nilpaurion changes his mind), there will be double lynchings.

That said, I think that the points made against double lynchings make a lot of sense in terms of a good game, and I like Garin's idea a lot that adding a werebear to the mix would effectively and more naturally shorten the game than allowing double lynchings.

That said,(:p) until and if Nilpaurion changes his mind, there are going to be double lynchings.

[Caranlondien]

While I have no experience in the matter, I have been convinced by the various arguments made against double lynchings.

As for a profession, has lumberjack been taken?

[Garin]

littlemanpoet (wb by the way, sir) : I like Garin's idea a lot that adding a werebear to the mix would effectively and more naturally shorten the game than allowing double lynchings.

I am weeping openly for all to see..

I think this is first time anyone has agreed with me.

I need to breathe into a paper bag, now.

By the way, what is the best thread to discuss the homicide/suicide that took place at my apartment complex?

This will be a great game because I am officially 'bonkers.'

I'll go now.


I won't drop out because I think that I am destined to be in a Nilp-modded game. This will be a great game and I can't wait to be lynched in the 2nd round.

Did I mention that it was a son that gunned down his mother? It is like the 80s movie "Pretty in Pink" but with more gore.

When I show an aversion to lynching/killing people you will understand.


Anyways, let the games begin.

[Naria]

In post # 2412 Nilpaurion said double lynchings are in. However, votes were requested, and therefore some of us voted ... late.

Lmp, are you talking about voting for or against double lyching? In this post of Nilp's I don't see a reference made for voting on the double lynching. I may be a bit confused, so just to clarify, was the vote not for roles like Ranger, Hunter and others, also for a start time?

Another thing, what is a Werebear and how does that role work? I have heard of that role, but have yet to play in a game with one.

And one other thing....Has anyone seen or heard from our Prophet?! :eek: :D

[littlemanpoet]

I am weeping openly for all to see... By the way, what is the best thread to discuss the homicide/suicide that took place at my apartment complex?I'm sorry for your distress, Garin. Glad you're happy with my agreement, although that may be a double-edged sword around here :p.

To answer your question, try
That good night: gift or punishment? (http://www.forums.barrowdowns.com./showthread.php?t=11971&page=1) - rather poignant at times. It may be of some aid to you in the difficulties you describe.

[SamwiseGamgee]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! No werebear! I've been converted to the no camp! Sure, it'd be great fun to be the werebear, but I really do think it ruins the spirit of the game, and as a villager in a werebear village I can tell you it's horrible! So that's all you need to know Naria! :D Also, not sure I got this right, but if you put a werebear AND disallow mass lynching you virtually hand the game to the werecreatures, most likely the bear. Anyway, it's up to Nilp, but I think I know which way it'll go.

[Celuien]

Don't want the Werebear. I think there are already enough teams in the village without adding another Werecreature.

I don't mind double lynchings, but vote against anything larger than doubles due to concerns over the previously mentioned lynch all male/female players at once strategy.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Azaelia if you are itchin' to get back into WW, I encourage you to join Mithalwen's WWJ (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12671) that will hopefully be starting up soon. It'll be back to the original gaming. :cool:

OOO, Good idea, since it looks as though there is no room for me here :D A back-to-the basics game looks like fun! *hurries over to sign self up*

[tar-ancalime]

No Bear. Good heavens! We've already got two separate teams whose goal is to kill everyone!

Also, as I've said before, adding any other "wild card" elements (like the Cursed) will diminish our ability to judge how well the Lovers element works.

I'm with Celuien on lynching. The reason I don't like games that disallow double lynchings is that, in my experience, single-lynch-only games can lead to more careless voting. It effectively means that the moderator will eliminate the consequences for people who couldn't be bothered to check the vote count before voting. Oops! Caused a tie? Didn't bother to vote when you could have broken a tie? No worries, the moderator will clean it up for you. :rolleyes: And it goes without saying that these are prime wolf-vote hidey holes: "But I didn't know there was a tie!" Spare me.

Now, there is another problem that Celuien brings up, though: the orchestrated mass lynching. This is something that I think is against the spirit of the game--we could indeed eliminate the lovers by lynching all of one gender, but that's like catching dolpins in your tuna nets. So I think I'm in agreement with Celuien that double lynchings should be allowed, but triples and higher should not be.

Those of us who don't like to use double lynchings (and I'm one of them, btw) should campaign against them DURING THE GAME; but the rules shouldn't be set up to save the day from careless voting.

All of this is sort of a general rant, though--I am happy to play no matter what the lynch rule is. I guess I'll have to mod a game myself someday and set the rules just the way I like them. ;)

This is going to be a very long game, though, as Lalaith says. I am a little concerned about that, but we'll just have to let it play out.

[littlemanpoet]

Hey, it's not my mod anyway. So there ain't gonna be a werebear 'cuz Nilp said no. I see the point against it anyway in a Lovers game. And I agree with no mass lynchings. Spirit of the game and all that. I think Naria's query in my direction got answered, so I'll shut up now.

[Naria]

Sure, it'd be great fun to be the werebear, but I really do think it ruins the spirit of the game, and as a villager in a werebear village I can tell you it's horrible! So that's all you need to know Naria!

Thanks Swg, good enough for me! :D

I think Naria's query in my direction got answered, so I'll shut up now.

No no, don't shut up just yet....one question was not answered. Where is Nilp?!

A new question: Does anyone know what time the game starts on Tuesday? :)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Apparently, 'Vous ne pouvez pas passer' was meant for me. :D

Enedwaith, here are the final decisions.

~ YES Double lynchings, for fears of a trés long game (I wouldn't mind two weeks, but three? :eek: )

~ NO Ranger and Hunter (sorry for flip-flop; lynch me if you want :D ), due to balance issues. (Four Werewolves with a traitor in their midst against two Seers, a Ranger, a Hunter, and a lot of innocent villagers? Tough!)

~ NO Werebear, obviously (this was my second option, but since Formendaga told me to put my foot down and not be swayed away from the Lovers-centric idea . . . )

~ DAY/NIGHT cycling time is 5:30am GMT.

NIGHT 1 will start tomorrow. I will be posting the game thread (with all the rules) later, I hope.

[Lhunardawen]

So this will be like the original Werewolf game, only there's an additional wolf, an additional Seer, an expanded village, and lovers thrown into the mix.


~ DAY/NIGHT cycling time is 5:30am GMT.No, no, nooo!!! :(

[Formendacil]

~ DAY/NIGHT cycling time is 5:30am GMT.

I'm with Lhuna...

No, no, no, no!

Expect more than a few early votes from me, people...

~ NO Werebear, obviously (this was my second option, but since Formendaga told me to put my foot down and not be swayed away from the Lovers-centric idea . . . )

Oh yeah...

Okay, stick with your 5:30 times! Just don't expect me to like them.

[Lhunardawen]

Oh, yeah. You can expect way early votes from me, too. Like three hours into the game, more often than not.

[Thinlómien]

Early votes from me also. From almost 10 hours before the closing time to about three hours before the voting time...

[Lalaith]

Ditto...except it'll be five hours before closing at the latest.

[Glirdan]

My voting for the next week or so should all be shortly before closing time. After that, it's going to vary.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It won't matter if most of the votes are early, because most of the discussion will be early too. Ipso, facto.

The Werebear... *shudders* If that had been introduced I would have walked.

Anyway, hoom, hroom....time to get into character. ;)

Here's hoping for a good game everyone!

[Thinlómien]

I'm just checking, but isn't the game beginning about twelve hours from now?

[SamwiseGamgee]

Correcto mondo, Thinlómien. Oooh, I can hardly wait. It'll be an early rise for me in the morrow!

[Lalaith]

em...has anyone had their roles yet?

[SamwiseGamgee]

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I haven't had. I wouldn't worry, though, plenty time left for Nilp. We could get the PMs at 5am, remember, so no need to worry. :D

[Thinlómien]

Thanks, Samwise.

Plenty of time indeed... :rolleyes:

But I trust Nilp to do it in time. Though I'm really excited. I would like to know my role soon.

[Gurthang]

I haven't recieved a role yet, either... :confused:

The game should start(if I calculate correctly) 12 hours and 54 minutes from whatever time is listed for this post. So he has that long before he's late. :D

[Thinlómien]

Twelve hours and 54 minutes? Eleven hours and 54 minutes, if the time is 5:30 AM. Right?

And as anyone hasn't yet got the roles, I think Nilp hasn't just posted them yet. Don't worry, Thangy.

[Gurthang]

Twelve hours and 54 minutes? Eleven hours and 54 minutes, if the time is 5:30 AM. Right?

And as anyone hasn't yet got the roles, I think Nilp hasn't just posted them yet. Don't worry, Thangy.

I thought it was twelve... let's see: I'm GMT - 6, so that should be 11:30 pm (right? I'm no good with international time. :( ). My post time reads 10:36am. Add 54 minutes makes 11:30am, twelve hours before start time. Well, I don't know that it really matters. I'm pretty sure that when it starts, I'll find out for sure what time it is for me. Makes it easy that way.

[Thinlómien]

I thought it was twelve... let's see: I'm GMT - 6, so that should be 11:30 pm (right? I'm no good with international time. :( ). My post time reads 10:36am. Add 54 minutes makes 11:30am, twelve hours before start time. Well, I don't know that it really matters. I'm pretty sure that when it starts, I'll find out for sure what time it is for me. Makes it easy that way. Hmm... I think I was counting my time as GMT... :rolleyes: So I think we all were wrong since since I'm GMT +2 and the game begins a bit more than 12 hours and 30 minutes from now. Or actually, then you were correct... Argh. This makes me confused. Anyway, I will be sleeping when the game starts, so I don't have to worry about the time so exactly.

[SamwiseGamgee]

If it is 5:30am GMT, then it's 12 and a half hours from this post.

[Valier]

Do you think we will start with a night phase first?

[Thinlómien]

I think so... Isn't that usually so? (Night phase first)

[Glirdan]

Normally, but we usually do that and have the thread up and running a whole day before the game starts. That way, the Seer has a chance to go through the names and pick someone and for the Wolves to PM each other. Now that we have two Seers, they get to do the same thing. But don't worry, Nilp is probably doing this on purpose. Either that or it's that drated timezone illness again. :rolleyes:

[Garin]

i am surprised that Nilp has time for proper modding but I am sure he will prove me wrong.

All I say is that this might be my last WW for a time (going through major changes)

[Valier]

uuummmm Nilp? Are you out there? need to know if we start today, so I can stay up for the start of it......Hello?:p :D

[Garin]

Valier, I think it starts tomorrow but we should be getting roles soon...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Absolutely last flip-flop.

I failed to see a vote for 8:30am (dancing spawn's, of all people to miss :rolleyes: ), so we have a tie, 10 votes in favour of each.

Mod puts foot down and says 8:30am. It's final, I promise.

Expect roles within the hour.

[Garin]

Nilp
I love you but you are quite a pain in the...
Care to add Lhuna?

Let the games begin.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Unless Glirdaga and Formendaga give me their occupation before the start of DAY 1, they shall be both unemployed. As in town unemployed person.

[Thinlómien]

My posting on Day 1 will be brief, but I try to get online at least.

[the guy who be short]

TGWBS will be largely inactive tomorrow. He has a school trip that will take until 6pm GMT.

He may post about 7pm GMT. He may post at 8:40am GMT if he is lucky. But he will not post frequently, not much.

[Anguirel]

I'll be absent for much of the day too; I've been down with a bug and have a lot of work to catch up with.

[Garin]

I'll probably have just enough time to say something that will get me lynched.

I really wish that we had decided on 5:30 but that is dead issue.

2 Seers, 4 wolves and the lovers... This is going to be interesting. It appears that Nilp-Mod has EDIT: Hasn't an assistant or co-mod. This is true, no?

[Valier]

I shall be absent for most of the day, but I will make sure I post and read through the posts and vote. I can't promise I'll talk much, I have a review due on thursday and I am just starting it now....EEK!

[Glirdan]

Well, because of this final time change, my posting will be less then I would like and my voting will be about five hours early at latest, maybe earlier.

[Formendacil]

Unless Glirdaga and Formendaga give me their occupation before the start of DAY 1, they shall be both unemployed. As in town unemployed person.

Didn't see this before...

Unemployed bum works... I've been one of those, back during the summer. It was awesome. (The bank account didn't like it so much, 'tis true....) I'm all for doing that again. :D

[Cailín]

Though I'd normally be able to vote right before the deadline, I shall be forced to cast an extremely early vote today. I'm visiting a friend who lives on the other side of the country and won't return till tomorrow. May the Prophet forgive me. :p

[Thinlómien]

I'm going to leave soon (and I'm going to be away for a while), but I will be back before voting time. Just to inform you.

And I'd be happy if I knew what our thread's name means...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It's in Filipino.

~Ang (definite article) = The

~Saga (English word)

~-ng (inflection when adding an adjective)

~Daga (BD's foreign word of the decade) = Mouse

~bow (English word) *I added it to make it resemble the Filipino parody of simple poems.

So, it means 'The Mousey Saga, bow.' Or something like that.

Originally I planned to title it 'The Saga Sagaciously Continues', but daga called to me.