Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Celuien]

Why not - then Celuien and I would get to be grandparents. :D
Yes, why not? :D

[the phantom]

C'mon people. Just two real families! Are you trying to be individualistic in here? Now just marry each other and go for the kids!

Otherwise we family-folks will just out-vote you individuals on dAY1
Hey now, it's not my fault I'm not part of a family. Every time I try to take out your jewel of a daughter, your wife starts swinging her battledore and screaming "You stay away from my Zali!"
:D

[Diamond18]

Why not - then Celuien and I would get to be grandparents. :D

Really, really, really old grandparents. :p

And I fixed the mix up with Jenny's role. Oops.

Hey now, it's not my fault I'm not part of a family. Every time I try to take out your jewel of a daughter, your wife starts swinging her battledore and screaming "You stay away from my Zali!"

Can't deny it. ;)

We need some single people around to gang up on.... I mean, provide variety....

Edit: Though, come to think of it, Eomer is in the market for a brother, tp. And the thought of you two troublemakers as brothers just makes my fingers itch for the battledore.

[Glirdan]

Can't deny it.

We need some single people around to gang up on.... I mean, provide variety....

Edit: Though, come to think of it, Eomer is in the market for a brother, tp. And the thought of you two troublemakers as brothers just makes my fingers itch for the battledore.

Ooo! That'd be interesting! As long as I'm not related to Kath, I'm fine. You could put Naria as my brother and we compete for Kath that way. Just make sure that neither of us are related to Kath.

[littlemanpoet]

If you don't firm whether you're playing by 6pm Wed., well, then you're not in the game, are you. Almost goes without saying, but I thought I'd make that clear. :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

Hey now, it's not my fault I'm not part of a family. Every time I try to take out your jewel of a daughter, your wife starts swinging her battledore and screaming "You stay away from my Zali!"
Can't deny it. ;)
You're so mean, Diamond. :p

I'm hoping I can find an ally in your husband, Nogrod. Perhaps his many battledore bruises have made him sympathetic to poor souls like me who have suffered cruelty at his wife's hands, for crimes no worse than complimenting Zali on her fine work as a seamstress.
Though, come to think of it, Eomer is in the market for a brother, tp.
Mwu ha ha! You'll be sorry you suggested that.

[littlemanpoet]

I've sent the rough chart below to Hookbill, to turn into something pretty. There are a few permutations on it that will take some of you by surprise, I wager..... ;)

Nogrod = Diamond
|
Eonwe=Lhunardawen ... Azaelia .... Firefoot
* * * *
mormegil = (passed on)
|
Jenny Hallu ... Celuien = The Saucepan Man
|
Naria ... Kitanna
* * * *
Sleepy Ranger = Roa Aoife
|
Caranlondien ... Glirdan ... Lommy
* * * *
Spawn = Nilpaurion (or 'passed on' if he doesn't play)
|
Kath (yem)
* * * *
Alcarillo = Cailín
|
the phantom ... Eomer
* * * *
(passed on)
|
Lalaith (guardian)
|
Oddwen (orphan)
* * * *
(passed on) = (passed on)
|
Feanor (widow) ... Valier (never married) (sisters)

[Roa_Aoife]

You could put Naria as my brother and we compete for Kath that way.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... don't you think you ought to take that up with your father and I first? Especially me, as the child bearer! Besides, please correct me if I'm horribly mistaken, but isn't Naria female? That would make it a tad difficult for her to be your brother.

[Oddwen]

Eek, I had forgotten - I'll be in Detroit at the ballgame on Sunday May 21, so don't look for me that day. Or likely the evening before.

I've always wanted to play in a secret-role'd village. Cool.

++ HIDE THE ROLES

Aagh, I'm flip-flopping about this vote already...

And I'm already dreaming about this game. :D Or, at least Diamond's battledores. (Ick ick ick ick. You don't wanna know.)

[Valier]

Me and Fea as sisters.....one widow, one unmarried.... Almost like Patty and Selma... Hee Hee :p

I for one vote for some knowledge of the roles or I fear I will be terribly confused.:confused:

[Glirdan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa... don't you think you ought to take that up with your father and I first? Especially me, as the child bearer! Besides, please correct me if I'm horribly mistaken, but isn't Naria female? That would make it a tad difficult for her to be your brother.

No, I believe that it is I who is terribly mistaken. Yet, you can play either gender and (I am not sure of this, so Naria, correct me if I'm wrong) she could be playing a male.

[Valier]

Naria's status is Eligible young maiden, so I think she is a girl and cannot be someone's brother.:D

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'm in. :cool:

About children . . . I've heard that families with advanced bloodlines in old villages were either made rulers or killed. And since we already have a mayor . . .

. . . Well, I guess it depends on the missus. spawn, do you want broodlings or not?

[mormegil]

So I have daughters? If that's the case SpM is my son-in-law. Hmmm this could get interesting :p ;)

[Diamond18]

Spawn = Nilpaurion
|
Kath (yem)

Hey look! It's the Wereducks! They really do travel in packs....

Mwu ha ha! You'll be sorry you suggested that.

Uh oh...

[the phantom]

Eomer, single some lass out to receive your romantic attentions.

Dad and Mom (Alca and Cai), one of you be the older brother or sister of someone, like Sauce.

Fea- you're a widow. Hmm.... let's say that it was my older brother (and Eomer's) that was your husband.

Yes...perfect...

Our family must grow. GROW!

[Cailín]

... Eomer and phantom are my sons...?

*thud*

Alcarillo - where did we go wrong with them?

Eomer, single some lass out to receive your romantic attentions.

Dad and Mom (Alca and Cai), one of you be the older brother or sister of someone, like Sauce.

Fea- you're a widow. Hmm.... let's say that it was my older brother (and Eomer's) that was your husband.

Yes...perfect...

Our family must grow. GROW!

Phantom, dear, if you wish the family to grow why don't you settle down with a nice lass and have her pop out some babies, huh? Mum will find you a nice one.

Another son? Fea as a daughter in law? No thanks. You two will do.

[Lalaith]

Oddwen, my poor neglected ward, do you want us to be part of someone's extended family or are we just disconnected flakes? (Mind you, I'd quite understand if there were no volunteers among the village dynasties to take us on....)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Is all this relationship-stuff related to the game in any way? At least it will make for some hilarious first day posts. :p

I want to be betrothed to Kitanna, O won't you say yes, m'lady? Cailín was happy with the choice; Alcarillo is not sure. I have only recently returned to the village, seeking my brother The Phantom whom I desire a loan off of. It came as a great surprise to find my former love Lhunardawen married and settled down with Eonwe.

Welcome to the game (and the Downs), Loki — hope you're prepared for what you're getting yourself into. :D

[Thinlómien]

An idea: There are lots of unattached adult people. I (and other children as well maybe) could do with a loving godmother or godfather. (More candy, you know :D)

Then, to the questions I have this time:
- I have to check, but isn't it so that our hunter takes a person when s/he dies only if s/he is killed by the wolves?
- what if the gw gets most ww votes?
- do we have retrackies?

[Gurthang]

So I guess I'm just a loner than? Some migrant manual laborer who just wandered into town and happened to get a job? Sounds fine, I guess... I was halfway hoping to be married off by LMP. I'd be much too shy to ask someone myself. :rolleyes: ;)

Well, if the game starts Wed., then I'll probably have to drop. I have a final that day (actually, a few finals :eek: ), and even if it starts later in the day, I'll be doing some extra sleeping and driving the next 24 hours. So, in short, I'd miss out on most of the Day 1 fun, which is some of the best banter of the whole game.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lom-Lom, there are no retractable votes; and I think that nothing happens if the GW is chosen by the wolves. Hunter-variable is down to LMP, but Hunters have been known to have a free kill regardless of who kills them in the past (Mormegil slaying Abercrombie immediately comes to my mind!).

Does "be betrothed" even make sense? Why am I using words that I don't know how to use? And Cailín: I presume you meant: "How did we ever manage to produce two such improbably wonderful sons?" ;)

[Celuien]

Does "be betrothed" even make sense?
I take your meaning quite well. Bold fellow to brave a flurry of flying kettles, pans, and other assorted cooking implements to make your case. :p :D

So I have daughters? If that's the case SpM is my son-in-law. Hmmm this could get interesting.
Very interesting. :D

[Thinlómien]

...but Hunters have been known to have a free kill regardless of who kills them in the past (Mormegil slaying Abercrombie immediately comes to my mind!).Argh! I haven't played ww for ages (read: a month or a bit more) so I'm starting to forget the rules... :rolleyes:

A note on posting times: I won't usually be around for the first half of the day (doesn't include weekends and exceptional days) , so don't wonder my absences...

[Roa_Aoife]

People with time contraints- If my reading of the rules is correct, all days and nights will last 48 hours untill the village is small enough to go back a regular schedule. (After all, with 30 people trying to talk, it'd be quite hectic if we onle had 24 hours to decide with. That's not even taking into account the myriad of heavy posters we have playing! :eek: )

[littlemanpoet]

Eomer, single some lass out to receive your romantic attentions.I've already made that decision for Eomer. :p ....Kitanna. Unless you really want to choose someone else (but bewarde, if you do, then you will have the wrath of Kitanna spurned bearing down on you) .... but your choice, Eomer.

[littlemanpoet]

Is all this relationship-stuff related to the game in any way? At least it will make for some hilarious first day posts.I did it just for my own narrative fun, but it's working out even better.

I want to be betrothed to Kitanna, O won't you say yes, m'lady?Sun of a ---:eek: That's exactly what I had already worked out!

By the way, Loki, I've taken note. Welcome. I'll add you to the list once I'm back at my own home computer.

EDIT: We're going to begin the game one day later than originally scheduled so that Gurthang can play. That means the official start is 6pm EDT (10 GMT) on Thursday.

Well, that brings us up to 30 players. The sign-up for players is hereby officially closed. This is gonna be fun! :D

[littlemanpoet]

Please pardon multiple posts caused by a stooopid computer that can't copy and paste. :rolleyes:

An idea: There are lots of unattached adult people. I (and other children as well maybe) could do with a loving godmother or godfather. (More candy, you know :D)Fine, but we can't call them that. Need a more non-religious Middle Earth name for it. Any ideas?

- I have to check, but isn't it so that our hunter takes a person when s/he dies only if s/he is killed by the wolves?Yes. At least, that is how I understand the Hunter rules. I've noticed some weird kills here and there that don't make sense to me, such as the Hunter killing the Seer; how does that happen?

- what if the gw gets most ww votes?The village attempts to lynch him/her and discovers that the player doesn't die; hence, "hey! a wizard! good or evil?"

- do we have retrackies?NO! This is complicated enough.

[littlemanpoet]

So I guess I'm just a loner than? Some migrant manual laborer who just wandered into town and happened to get a job? Sounds fine, I guess... I was halfway hoping to be married off by LMP. I'd be much too shy to ask someone myself.Now that I know you're playing, we'll see what can be arranged.

CLARIFICATION! Each Day and Night will be only 24 hours long (unless it becomes clear that they need to be longer).

[Kath]

Yes. At least, that is how I understand the Hunter rules. I've noticed some weird kills here and there that don't make sense to me, such as the Hunter killing the Seer; how does that happen?
This happens when the Hunter chooses the Seer as the one they will take down with them (by accident!) and then they are killed by the wolves at Night.

[Diamond18]

Now that I know you're playing, we'll see what can be arranged..

Can Gurthang be part of my family in some way? Please?

mutters: *MUST outnumber the phantom's clan!!!*

Is all this relationship-stuff related to the game in any way? At least it will make for some hilarious first day posts.

Well, Nogrod and I (and Firefoot so far) have decided that on Day 1 we are not going to vote for family members. I suspect this also means that as a family we will be prepared to bandwagon against those who vote for one of our clan.

After Day 1 everyone is fair game for suspicion and voting, but I rather like the idea of starting some family feuds on Day 1. :D

[JennyHallu]

Gurthang, might you consent to be my butler/manservant/general go-fer?

All good eccentric maiden aunts need a lackey.

[Diamond18]

Sorry to double post, but I just realized:

Nogrod = Diamond
|
Eonwe=Lhunardawen ... Azaelia .... Firefoot

Does Eonwe have no family ties to another family? Maybe if he was the son of another couple as well as our son-in-law....

And just to double check -- does the Hunter not get to kill of s/he is lynched? ONLY if s/he is taken down by Wolves?

[JennyHallu]

Careful with matching everyone up, Di...we don't want to be too inbred...

[mormegil]

I'm not sure I can give my blessing on Kitanna's betrothal to Eomer...She is my granddaughter after all and I MUST have a say in this. Eomer is more suitable to be married to the sea as a pirate than my granddaughter.

Can you believe he never once asked my permission? :mad:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I had no idea Kitanna was attached to you, Mormegil; but now that you mention it, it wouldn't make a bit of difference: we're an infatuated young couple who don't ask for permission. :p

(Or are we? Where is the lady in question to settle this?)

Ok, let's clarify this Hunter position. Does the Hunter get to kill only if attacked by wolves, or does s/he get to kill if lynched by the village too? I say ++Give Hunter a kill whichever death s/he suffers

[Kitanna]

I'm not sure I can give my blessing on Kitanna's betrothal to Eomer...She is my granddaughter after all and I MUST have a say in this. Eomer is more suitable to be married to the sea as a pirate than my granddaughter.

Can you believe he never once asked my permission? :mad:
I do hope you give your blessing Grandpa Mormegil.

Looking at these family trees, I can see the insanity of this game is going to top anything I've seen thus far.

[the phantom]

Phantom, dear, if you wish the family to grow why don't you settle down with a nice lass and have her pop out some babies, huh? Mum will find you a nice one.
I've already told you, Mum, I found a nice one myself- Azaelia, but we're not going to be popping out babies any time soon. She happens to like my adventurous side, and thinks it would be great to go traveling for a while and share in an adventure or two before settling down.
Another son? Fea as a daughter in law? No thanks. You two will do.
What? No dead older brother? That means no connection to Fea, and that simply won't do.

All right then. Fea's deceased father was your brother, Mom. Fea and Valier are my cousins.

And Sleepy Ranger is my uncle, my father's (Alca's) brother. Notice how it says Sleepy used to be a "wanderer", just as I am now? You see, it runs in the family.

And that would make Roa my aunt, and Caranlondien, Glirdan, and Lommy my cousins.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

With that support, there's no way we're getting lynched this time, tp. :D

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I'm in. :cool:

About children . . . I've heard that families with advanced bloodlines in old villages were either made rulers or killed. And since we already have a mayor . . .

. . . Well, I guess it depends on the missus. spawn, do you want broodlings or not?
Yay, I have a husband! As to the offsprings, don't we already have one - Kath? Hmm, we must be great parents if we've forgot if we have kids or not, but sure, we can get a few more.

Well, Nogrod and I (and Firefoot so far) have decided that on Day 1 we are not going to vote for family members. I suspect this also means that as a family we will be prepared to bandwagon against those who vote for one of our clan. Uh oh, so probably anyone who votes for you, Nogrod, Eonwe, Lhuna, Zali or Firefoot will get six votes on Day 1.

Nilp, we need to expand our family! Quick!

++Give Hunter a kill whichever death s/he suffers ++What he said

and

++Not in favour

[mormegil]

If input is requested about the hunter I say give him/her ability to kill when they die so I agree with Eomer and Spawn.

[Cailín]

With that support, there's no way we're getting lynched this time, tp. :D

Well, dear, if you continue to be a disappointment to your poor mother, I would not be so sure of that. :cool:

Seems like tp is insisting on making this the most uhm inter-related village ever. How am I ever to make matches if you are all cousins?

And Mormegil, Kitanna and Eomer already got my permission, which is all that matters. Anything to keep him away from that insane Lhuna person.

[mormegil]

And Mormegil, Kitanna and Eomer already got my permission, which is all that matters. Anything to keep him away from that insane Lhuna person.

Ah, but you see your permission is neither valid nor wanted in this little situation. What say should you have as the proposed grooms Mother? I am the closest male decendent to the propsed bride and I shall have customs followed!!!! (4! ;) ). Eomer has been nothing but flippant on the matter.

Mormegil; but now that you mention it, it wouldn't make a bit of difference: we're an infatuated young couple who don't ask for permission.

I demand a redress of this insult or he shall have my vengence.

LMP so there really is no other point to familial ties than mirth and merry making...it's working well :D

[Roa_Aoife]

And Sleepy Ranger is my uncle, my father's (Alca's) brother. Notice how it says Sleepy used to be a "wanderer", just as I am now? You see, it runs in the family.

And that would make Roa my aunt, and Caranlondien, Glirdan, and Lommy my cousins.

I refuse to be dragged into your dastardly scheme. Besides, as Jenny pointed out, we don't want to be too horribly inbred. :p Oh, I plan on voting for my family members as I see fit.

CLARIFICATION! Each Day and Night will be only 24 hours long (unless it becomes clear that they need to be longer).

My mistake. I hadn't noticed the change.

[the phantom]

I refuse to be dragged into your dastardly scheme.
One, I would hardly call it a "dastardly scheme".

Two, I'm sorry, but you can't help it. You married Sleepy, who is most definitely my uncle. He is too much like me not to be related.
Seems like tp is insisting on making this the most uhm inter-related village ever. How am I ever to make matches if you are all cousins?
You used to be a great match-maker, when there were a couple of neighboring villages.

But those villages got destroyed by Werewolves, leaving you with a very limited pool of options for match-making.
mormegil ~ widower ~ retired mariner and currently mayor overseeing honorary functions
"Retired mariner", eh? Perfect.

Since I am a young adventurer, we are kindred spirits, morm, despite our difference in age. Over the years, I've spent many an evening in your house listening to your tales of danger and excitement on the high seas. In return, I have kept you up to date on the happenings in far places that I have seen on my adventures.

A few years ago, we agreed that before you died you would take to sea one last time, and take me with you and teach me all you know about sailing.
With that support, there's no way we're getting lynched this time, tp. :D
That's the idea, brother. ;)

At first I was content to be a loner, but when I saw all of the unions taking place I realized being a loner would make me a target the first couple days. This isn't about making for a better story- this is about survival! I am desperately making every possible connection I can. It's been a looooong time since I played in a WW game, and I would really like to survive long enough to have some fun.

[Roa_Aoife]

Two, I'm sorry, but you can't help it. You married Sleepy, who is most definitely my uncle. He is too much like me not to be related.


At first I was content to be a loner, but when I saw all of the unions taking place I realized being a loner would make me a target the first couple days.


One, Sleepy has just informed me via AIM that he is not, and never will be your uncle.

Two, Sleepy and I have set up no rules about family voting, so you'd be fair game anyways.

[JennyHallu]

lmp, will you list and summarize all these familial connections before the start of the game? I'm no hobbit...very confused am I.

And as for whether my family shall influence my voting, I am afraid it shall not at all. As I have stated before, I am rather eccentric, and I feel my only loyalties are to my little dog Fufu. And even my sister Celuien...deary me! Such a pretty girl she was! I don't know what could have inspired her to throw it away and marry that...that...that...MAN!

He's always trying to take my cooking pots for outerwear. Mamma and I taught little Celuien so well, but ever since she married her kitchen is always in total disrepair! No, I'm afraid I believe any of the crazy people in this village capable of anything, except, of course for sweet little Fufu.

[the phantom]

Sleepy isn't my true uncle, eh?

If that is the case, then that must mean that Sleepy was adopted, and isn't the true son of my grandparents. Hmm... was foul play involved? Someone must investigate.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I feel remarkably unloved. Fea? We don't want Fea. Well then she can be your cousin. You're uncle's ex-wife's sister-in-law's little brother's second cousin once removed on his father's side?

But that's quite all right... with all the time I spend with my sheep, I just haven't time to tend to romance or family. If ye want me, ye'll have to come a'searchin'. I've got my priorities, and they baaaa.

[JennyHallu]

You sensible lass, Fea, sticking to your work and not letting any of these men distract you from it. I have high hopes for you...you may live in my mansion, if you like...Mamma left me her house, and there's a nice spare room not getting any use.

If Gurthang agrees to be my handyman, we'll put him up on a cot in the kitchen...it's always warm in there, I pay him well, and if darling little Fufu needs out in the night he'll be right there handy.

[Kath]

So, who am I related to . . . exactly?

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Once again, my services have been called upon to make a pictorial concoction.
So, by the request of littlemanpoet, here are ye family trees.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/hukbillgoomba/FamilyTreeS.jpg

Direct all criticisms to lmp. All I've done is put the thing together via his instructions.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Thank you for the offer, dear, but it'll only be in the coldest months where my sheep can't wander far that I'll take you up on it. Other'n that, I'll be sleeping under the stars with nothing to protect my poor lambs from wolves but a very hard cudgel. They aren't fond of it, oh let me tell you. If you hear a'howlin' from those mountain fields, you can bet those wolves are getting what for. Of course if you hear screaming, I can't guarantee my own safety... they tend to travel in packs, you know. It's times like these I wish my dear Barbosamir hadn't engaged in piracy and had his ship sunken in the depths of the sea by the King's Men, but such is life. One gets used to loneliness, you know.

[JennyHallu]

Mormy, Pappa, do you live on your own or with one of your daughters? and if a daughter, which?

EDIT: Nice, Hookbill...that's awesome. So that leaves only Loki completely unattached, right?

[Loki]

I don't intend to be included in any of your families, if at all possible. It's just as well, being quite unfamiliar with everyone included.

[Lalaith]

Well, he can be my ne'e-do-well younger brother if he likes.

edit: cross-posted with Loki. Ok Loki, you stay unattached if you prefer, no problem!

[Kuruharan]

I don't intend to be included in any of your families

Ahhh...truly the last of the rugged individualists. ;)

However, I see co-optation has already been proposed.

(And I solemnly swore to myself I wasn't going to participate in all this silly family banter... :rolleyes: )

[littlemanpoet]

Does Eonwe have no family ties to another family?
I'll give Eonwe some time to decide that.

ANNOUNCEMENT: As of Wednesday 6pm EDT, all relational aggrandizements will be officially done.

And just to double check -- does the Hunter not get to kill of s/he is lynched? ONLY if s/he is taken down by Wolves?Okay, snap decision. Hunter kills whether killed or lynched.

Fea's deceased father was your brother, Mom. Fea and Valier are my cousins.Approved.

And Sleepy Ranger is my uncle, my father's (Alca's) brother. Notice how it says Sleepy used to be a "wanderer", just as I am now? You see, it runs in the family. Not approved. However, Sleepy and Alca can be 2nd cousins.

How am I ever to make matches if you are all cousins?Now you know how first cousins got hooked..... :p

Loki, you don't have to be in a family, so that's cool. But what you must do is pick an occupation, and whether you are an old man, middle aged man, young eligible, or a child.

EDIT: To Hookbill: There should be about four little 'RIP' gravestones beneath Lhunardawen and Eonwe. Put 2 Diamond and Nogrod. Put 4 under Alcarillo & Cailín. Put 6 under Spawn & Nilp. 1 under Celuien & SPM. Put 3 next to Feanor and Valier. Just 1 under Sleepy and Roa. Explanation: still births, infant mortality, child mortality, young men lost at sea. Take your pick for a good mix; these are your options.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

EDIT: To Hookbill: There should be about four little 'RIP' gravestones beneath Lhunardawen and Eonwe. Put 2 Diamond and Nogrod. Put 4 under Alcarillo & Cailín. Put 6 under Spawn & Nilp. 1 under Celuien & SPM. Put 3 next to Feanor and Valier. Just 1 under Sleepy and Roa. Explanation: still births, infant mortality, child mortality, young men lost at sea. Take your pick for a good mix; these are your options.

Can do. It may take me a while. I've got a lot of work on at the moment, but I'll try and get it done as soon as possible.
Wish you'd told me all this before. :p

[Nogrod]

Just Great Hookbill! That helped a lot!

Once again, my services have been called upon to make a pictorial concoction.


This is just looking so awesome!

[littlemanpoet]

Can do. It may take me a while. I've got a lot of work on at the moment, but I'll try and get it done as soon as possible.
Wish you'd told me all this before. :p
Don't 'kill' yourself about it; it's really only window dressing to get the werewolvish feel into this; that is, the fact that most of you are going to DIIIIIIIEEEEE! :p

[Loki]

littlemanpoet: I've already mentioned that a number of times already, actually. I'll tell you again, since the last time I had mentioned it flew by fifty posts ago.

Occupation: Leech-Collector

By the by, things certainly move quickly around here, don't they? Most especially at peak hours...

[Nogrod]

Btw. as I looked at Hookbill's nice representation about the relations in the village, there seems to be five "main families" in there - and a couple of others. So should we have here something like Capulets and Montagues, WW-style? :p

At least I get shivers just looking at that old-Morm's family! :D

And there are funny things here in abundance - that could be tied into a something like very great & twisted first day posting. Just lots of options to make the dAY1 much more interesting and by some odd twist, somehow more consistent.

I surely will vote for my wife or children at any stage of the game - if I have a good reason for it. But otherwise, I will defend them as well as I can. And I do believe, there will be some others with "family-interest" about, as the game proggresses. And if we have a good game, we should be seeing people really taking it to their families and feeling very strongly about it. And that would just be so cool!

[Kath]

By the by, things certainly move quickly around here, don't they? Most especially at peak hours...
Just you wait til the game itself actually starts. You leave for a few hours and return to find 3 pages worth of talk to read :eek:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

That's brilliant, Hook. :)

Kitanna is the daughter of Celuien and SPM? I didn't know that either! What else haven't you told me, my one and only?

We have obviously been too busy.

Anyway, it is becoming more and more apparent that these family ties will cause even more bitterness and resentment on Day One than ever before! Magic. It also suggests the worrying strategy of wolves killing their own loved ones at night. Bluffing and double-bluffing is going to be huge in this game.

[Celuien]

Ah, but you see your permission is neither valid nor wanted in this little situation. What say should you have as the proposed grooms Mother? I am the closest male decendent to the propsed bride and I shall have customs followed!!!! (4! ;) ). Eomer has been nothing but flippant on the matter.
Ahem. Morm, dad, let's not forget her father, my dear husband the SPM. Surely he, as her father, should be asked for permission. :p :D

Ah, the youth of today. Whatever happened to tradition?

I don't know what could have inspired her to throw it away and marry that...that...that...MAN!

Sigh. You and dad never did like him. But I'll defend him through thick and thin unless there's overwhelming evidence to his guilt. The same goes for my girls.

Nice work, Hookbill.

[JennyHallu]

*shakes umbrella at Eomer*

You jest get yourself away from my innocent niece! No foolish men are taking these girls if I have anything to say in the matter!!!

(Mormy...I am beginning to get the impression that we two ought to be living together, if only because we have similar views on how these girls should grow old--single!)

I feel like Lobelia Sackville-Baggins. Except without a pimply son. (What on earth was she thinking? If she had to get married...why on earth did she choose to have a boy??)

[Caranlondien]

Thank goodness for that chart, Hookbill... It's rather hard keeping track of whom one is related to!

And I personally plan on voting for as many family members as possible. It's just embarassing, between Lommy stealing the other children's candy and Glirdy alway chasing after Kath... :rolleyes:

[The Saucepan Man]

Ahem! :rolleyes:

To inject a modicum of reason into all this insanity ...

It seems to me that the current familial connections are more than sufficient - unless we are to be a village of Lovecraftian description ... :eek:

Shouldn't we be saving all this banter for the game? Otherwise we will either have resolved all our differences or be implacably feuding before the game even starts. To make the most of the family theme, I think it best if these issues develop during the game.

And, if not, I propose that lmp open a separate thread for pre-game banter as the current cacophony is cluttering up this thread no end.

Edit: Great job on the chart, Hookbill. That's just what is needed. I didn't even know that I had two daughters before I saw it. :rolleyes:

[Loki]

I'm in the best and worst position, as it so happens. To belong to a family will create a certain amount of camaraderie amongst compatriots. The wolves will take advantage of this. It will only harm the innocents. Best to take these ties with little respect to the game and beyond any serious decisions.

Best position: I will not be swayed by emotional ties.
Worst position: I'm beyond everyone else's monkey sphere and will likely be the first choice to lynch. The weird old hermit-y leech collector? Let's be serious here. I'm prime suspect #1. It'll take some sort of level-headed mayor to subdue the angry mob that'll be outside my door every damn night.

[Kuruharan]

To belong to a family will create a certain amount of camaraderie amongst compatriots. The wolves will take advantage of this. It will only harm the innocents. Best to take these ties with little respect to the game and beyond any serious decisions.

I'm beginning to be impressed here. Could we be witnessing the emergence of a new power werewolf player? Only time will tell...

(Before anybody asks, making vague and cryptic prophetic utterances is part of my job description as the Herald of Benevolence.)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Kath is our only child, huh?

As a family of Ducks in our former lives, I fear that the Uchiha--I mean, Felagund clan might be annihilated early. :eek:

Wait: Gurthang, have you been adopted already? If not . . . *goes down on one knee* Will you be my son?

That is . . . freaky.

[Loki]

A room full of monkeys with typewriters will type out Shakespere provided enough random permutations. Or will they...?

(Before anybody asks, making vague and cryptic prophetic utterances is part of my job description as the Herald of Benevolence.)

[Firefoot]

A room full of monkeys with typewriters will type out Shakespere provided enough random permutations. Or will they...? Probably not... it's mathematically almost impossible (http://user.tninet.se/~ecf599g/aardasnails/java/Monkey/webpages/).

[Gurthang]

Okay, I've gotten family offers from Diamond, Jenny, and Nilp. Now what am I supposed to do? :eek:

Well, I was thinking about being Diamond's migrant working nephew who came into town to be Jenny's lacky, but now Nilp's thrown a wrench into that plot. Hmm... maybe he'll just have to live without me. :p

Actually, looking at it all, Diamond's clan and Jenny's family are the largest we've got. Since Nilp's small troop is farther down the 'food-chain', I'll even things out and consent to be his son. Which means I'm Kath's brother and spawn is my mommy. I don't really care how old I am, but if it matters I was/am a handful. Always getting into things, never sitting still, curious beyond all reason... just about everything you can imagine. All I can say is good luck spawn. ;)

[Loki]

Not at all-- it's merely so statistically improbable that you would have to be a fool to bet on it. Don't be so quick to put it down.

Probably not... it's mathematically almost impossible.

[littlemanpoet]

Since Nilp's small troop is farther down the 'food-chain', I'll even things out and consent to be his son. Which means I'm Kath's brother and spawn is my mommy. I don't really care how old I am, but if it matters I was/am a handful. Always getting into things, never sitting still, curious beyond all reason... just about everything you can imagine. All I can say is good luck spawn. ;)Approved. Gurthang, you are Kath's older brother. Single. Eligible. Living in Jenny Hallu's abode. Surely he gets his own room, does he not?

Um, ya know, I'll be the first one killed as tradition dictates. If that's so, why, I need to be a member of this village too! Hmmmm..... to what aspect of it shall I assign myself? I know! I'm Diamond's widowed Dad. :)

EDIT: I'm in agreement with The Saucepan Man. Now that things have been pretty much ironed out, there will be NO MORE FAMILY CHANGES. Further, do hold off on the familial rancor/feuding/sneakkissing, et cetera, until the game.

[Diamond18]

Direct all criticisms to lmp. All I've done is put the thing together via his instructions.

Will do. ;)

Elempi, the chart says that Eonwe is Nog and mine's son, when it should be Lhuna as our daughter. They need to be swapped.

I'm in the best and worst position, as it so happens. To belong to a family will create a certain amount of camaraderie amongst compatriots. The wolves will take advantage of this. It will only harm the innocents. Best to take these ties with little respect to the game and beyond any serious decisions.

Well I've given some thought to that, but any reply probably fits better in Day 1 deliberations. But I have already been contemplating that there will be some who view any family behavior as a wolfish plot -- or would like others to, if you take my meaning. Which is why I'm making clear my intentions (and so far as I know right now, Nog's and Firefoot's) to exhibit family voting behavior on Day 1 -- now before any roles are handed out. I realize that continuing seriously in such a vein past Day 1 would be disregarding the actual game of werewolf -- but Day 1 is Day 1 and the dynamics are different. People often stumble around criticizing other people's game styles, for lack of anything better to do, and only by luck are actual werecreatures caught.

Er, wait, I wasn't going to get into all this until the actual game starts. Blah. Suffice it is to say, "it will only harm the innocents" is a very sweeping statement to make and doesn't take into account the vast stores of cunning (not to mention wizards) that both sides possess. ;)

[Diamond18]

EDIT: I'm in agreement with The Saucepan Man. Now that things have been pretty much ironed out, there will be NO MORE FAMILY CHANGES. Further, do hold off on the familial rancor/feuding/sneakkissing, et cetera, until the game.

Okay... I'll try. There's just such temptation, with Thursday sooooo far away. ;)


Um, ya know, I'll be the first one killed as tradition dictates. If that's so, why, I need to be a member of this village too! Hmmmm..... to what aspect of it shall I assign myself? I know! I'm Diamond's widowed Dad. :)

Awesome. :cool:

On to a serious bit -- are both Days and Nights going to be 48 hours?

[littlemanpoet]

Elempi, the chart says that Eonwe is Nog and mine's son, when it should be Lhuna as our daughter. They need to be swapped.Quite right. I fear my rough bad chart was confusing on that point. Hookbill, please make this switch.

DAYS & NIGHTS WILL BE 24 HOURS EACH.

[Kath]

And we are starting at 10pm GMT on Thursday? I take it that will be a Night phase?

[Eonwe]

the chart says that Eonwe is Nog and mine's son, when it should be Lhuna as our daughter. They need to be swapped.

Indeed we do. For I come from the next village over, where my widowed mother lives. The place if veritably overrun by my kith and kin, so I bought this homestead and mover here.

Which bring me to another question: Lhuna, where shall we be living now that we have tied the knot? My place is a bit far in the woods, though it'll need to be looked after. We could sell it, and move in to town, of we could use it as a summer house deal. What say you? Put forth all the prudence of a good wife in this matter, for I leave it in your hands.

[The Saucepan Man]

Which is why I'm making clear my intentions (and so far as I know right now, Nog's and Firefoot's) to exhibit family voting behavior on Day 1 -- now before any roles are handed out. I realize that continuing seriously in such a vein past Day 1 would be disregarding the actual game of werewolf -- but Day 1 is Day 1 and the dynamics are different. People often stumble around criticizing other people's game styles, for lack of anything better to do, and only by luck are actual werecreatures caught.Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.

And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.

[Roa_Aoife]

And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.


Indeed. I'm all prepared to shoot holes in theories. (It's what I do best you know.) ;) But I'm also ready to put forth some form of my own. Honestly, looking at the players, meaningless banter will be almost wholly unnecessary.

[Nogrod]

Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.

And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.

I totally agree with you - and Roa too.

In most games I have played, we villagers have managed to lynch a wolf (or whatever werecreature) on dAY1! There have been different reasons for the success, but anyhow.

[Loki]

It seems to me as though "Day 1" decisions will be based solely on happensay and witless suspicion. Or, perhaps, on a small bit of RPing on what your "character" would say, as they appear within their roles of village idiots. Any wolfing being done would likely be coincidence. It is important in that it is the start and assists in the evolution of fact, but it is perhaps not, in and of itself, useful. Unless, of course, the wolves lack the pair of brain cells to bump together in order to rationalize the logistics of witholding information.

Beyond this. Good day and welcome the morrow. Happy Hunting, you innocents. I predict that, with a little skill and cunning, evil will triumph in the coming days.

[Eonwe]

It seems to me as though "Day 1" decisions will be based solely on happensay and witless suspicion. Or, perhaps, on a small bit of RPing on what your "character" would say, as they appear within their roles of village idiots. Any wolfing being done would likely be coincidence.

It looks as if Loki's played before. ;)

Yes, as often as not, that is how it happens. :(

Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.

I have a love/hate relationship with them. I like them because everyone is loosening up and joking around, but I hate them because they are so perplexing.

[Nogrod]

Beyond this. Good day and welcome the morrow. Happy Hunting, you innocents. I predict that, with a little skill and cunning, evil will triumph in the coming days.

Are you sure, you are willing to give this weapon to the rampant-running and frustrated crowd of villagers in the end of DAY1? :D

Just a warm welcome to the game Loki. You seem to have some attitude and a daring mind! Good sporting.

[Formendacil]

In most games I have played, we villagers have managed to lynch a wolf (or whatever werecreature) on dAY1! There have been different reasons for the success, but anyhow.

Ever heard of "dumb luck"?

Just kidding...

But, mind you, I'm with Nilp and others of his ilk who do not take Day 1s seriously. I'm also not playing, so I get to sit in the audience munching popcorn and shouting "it's so OBVIOUS that X is guilty" at the players. :p

[Nogrod]

Lmp!

I just checked the rules today, and would like to ask two questions. (If these are already answered, please just anyone correct me - and I'll find those answers out myself, so no need for anyone to go on "working" because of my possible unattentiviness)

1) The rules say, that the gifteds know the GW - and that they can PM to the GW, as the GW can PM to the gifteds. And then it's said, that the GW can reveal a gifted, who the other gifteds are. So can the gifteds also PM each other, if they know them? And if yes, is there a restriction in PM'ing, if a gifted becomes degifted, or in the end a wolf? It could add some more spice (is that needed?) to GW's game to think, whether to reveal the status changes to the gifteds - and possibly making them more powerful in the game at least for some time, to counter the head-start of the wolves? Who knows...

EDIT: What I meant: the gifteds are in a sense expendables to the GW - if they just reveal their knowledge to the general audience / fellow gifteds before they die. So the actual person being the gifted is not so important... but the common knowledge of, at least of someone fallen to the dark side, could be important (well, of course the malignant forces might make a counter claim - and in the game, where identities change, that could be more wise than in a normal game, where the truth would turn out the next day).

2) The rules say, that the lynched or killed persons previous roles will not be revealed at the death. But are their current roles revealed? I think that revealing the previous roles is not necessary, but revealing the current one is.

[Nogrod]

Ever heard of "dumb luck"?
Just kidding...
But, mind you, I'm with Nilp and others of his ilk who do not take Day 1s seriously. I'm also not playing, so I get to sit in the audience munching popcorn and shouting "it's so OBVIOUS that X is guilty" at the players. :p

I don't think, that should be taken as "just kidding". I know it myself, that we have had lots of luck too. That's why I said:
There have been different reasons for the success, but anyhow.
But as I have stated in many earlier games (and gotten almost lynched because of it a couple of times), if there are no other good reasons to vote for someone, I'll vote for the non-posters or just nonsense-posters the first day. But what then makes posting nonsense, well don't ask me... :)

Anyhow, people who just want to make DAY1 a "slipping under the radar-day" annoy me. If you're in a game, you should also play... It's not fair that some people just ride along, not being suspectible enough to be lynched because of inadequate posting. Who would those people be able to jump on to, if everyone followed their example?

Ok. We continue with this the Day1... :smokin:

[Diamond18]

Day 1s are underrated. Personally, I rather enjoy them.

And I suspect that, in this game, there will be more than enough to talk about (and to base a vote on) on Day 1- and not just the banter.

Oh I don't disagree with you, SpM. What I disagree with is anyone who jumps to attack anyone who doesn't hold the same opinions about how to play. I've been attacked for "meaningless banter" on Day 1 and it left a bad taste in my mouth. But I'm determined to not let it stop me from taking advantage of the unique opportunity Day 1 affords for being a bit looser. Especially in this village, when the character roles are more complicated and detailed than ever before, providing more opportunity to actually use them.

Besides, many a secret plot can be hidden in Day 1, only to be revealed in later Days. We don't all have to play like, say, Nogrod or Roa, to be playing the game "right." In fact, I'm not sure there is a well defined "right" and "wrong" way to play as long as you're into whatever your chosen style is. (That is it say, so long as you don't just neglect the game altogether and suffer mod fire expulsion.)

In short, I don't hate Day 1, and I think it's silly to hate the way other people approach Day 1 if it isn't the way you do it. If everyone played the same way, it would be categorically boring.

[Nogrod]

In short, I don't hate Day 1, and I think it's silly to hate the way other people approach Day 1 if it isn't the way you do it. If everyone played the same way, it would be categorically boring.

I do agree with you, but for one point. If all the people play posting just nonsense or non-post game the day1, it's a catastrophe for the villagers (well I've never been anything bad, so I don't actually know, how much fun to them it might be). That is one thing I wish to "hate" about other people. That doesn't help the villagers, but only werecreatures...

Although I admit the fun-part of it. And would like to enjoy some of it myself in this game... as the roles really give us the opportunity.

[Loki]

There are a few flaws to be exploited in the game. I'm loathe to point them out, however, because I am not yet aware which side I will be playing for.

Are you sure, you are willing to give this weapon to the rampant-running and frustrated crowd of villagers in the end of DAY1?

My analysis of game mechanics and the possible exploitation of thus is the least of my worries. I'm making my honest prediction upon the present instance of the rules. Regardless, this is completely out of context. Anyone who took OOC information into the game would be "cheating."

Eonwe: No, but I've had a certain friend rattle on endlessly about the excitement involved, and the rules explained numerous times.

[Diamond18]

I dislike the label of "nonsense", "meaningless", and "substanceless" that gets tagged on to any post which isn't, say, a deep analysis or which contains definite opinions about other players or a theory about how everyone should be behaving. I think that there's rather a lot more meaning in much of what is deemed "meaningless" than a lot of people think -- and also it's unfair on Day 1 when there is no voting record or death count to work off of, to expect everyone to come up with brilliant theories, etc.

If everyone just spent the entire day roleplaying, we wouldn't get anywhere, but again, I said that the game wouldn't work if everyone played the exact same way. So we need the mix of loud to quiet to serious to playful to actually get things rolling. And by quiet I just mean "relatively quiet" instead of not-involved quiet. Remember, it's a game of strategy and everyone has a different strategy. Even amongst the Ordos, there are varied opinions on how to stay alive both Day and Night.

Anyway, I dislike the idea of voting for someone just because their playing style is different. But in the end, it's your vote and your decision how to wield it. I just dislike the intimidation factor of saying, "If you don't play such and such way, I will do my best to rid the game of you and your ilk."

[Nogrod]

Anyone who took OOC information into the game would be "cheating."


Even though you are right on this last one, from the moral point of view, it has been a number of times, when these matters have decided the result of the game... :(

In the last game I played, I was so stupid as to tell openly, I would be very badly available for the next 5-7 hours. Quite immediately the goose-Spm and the duck-Kath lynched me and won the game just by that.

So it's not so gentlemanlike as you might think...

WW-game reminds me of different multinational companies fighting each other - or then people in extremely abnormal situations fighting for their lives. It's sad somehow, but fun as long as it is a "game only"-stuff.

And what comes to your analysis, I'm afraid that I share your concern here and believe the EW-side has the upper hand, but then again, I kind of trust lmp's dry-runs so much as to wish to see, how it actually goes. People, after all, don't always act to the most rational way you would predict (the economists are just freaked out by peoples actual behaviour!)... :cool:

[Kath]

In the last game I played, I was so stupid as to tell openly, I would be very badly available for the next 5-7 hours. Quite immediately the goose-Spm and the duck-Kath lynched me and won the game just by that.
Nogrod, while that was part of it, the real reason was simply that Sauce noticed I was around. We needed to get two votes in for someone straight away, so once I arrived he voted for someone he thought I'd follow along with. Unfortunately that was you!

[Eonwe]

No, but I've had a certain friend rattle on endlessly about the excitement involved, and the rules explained numerous times.

Had? Did he take it a bit too far? ( ;) ) I'm kidding, of course, though I've been told to "Shut it" by my brother on more than one occation. ;)

And "OOC information"? Out Of Game, was the closest I came...

[Diamond18]

Eonwe: No, but I've had a certain friend rattle on endlessly about the excitement involved, and the rules explained numerous times.

Do we get to know the identity of this friend or is that classified? ;) (I'm assuming you're refering to a Barrow Downer.)

[Nogrod]

I dislike the label of "nonsense", "meaningless", and "substanceless" that gets tagged on to any post which isn't, say, a deep analysis or which contains definite opinions about other players or a theory about how everyone should be behaving. I think that there's rather a lot more meaning in much of what is deemed "meaningless" than a lot of people think -- and also it's unfair on Day 1 when there is no voting record or death count to work off of, to expect everyone to come up with brilliant theories, etc.


Just feeling the battledore whizzing in the air towards me... :D

But really also. I don't mean, people shouldn't have different strategies - or that the in-character-posts couldn't be actually pointed to something (and you got too much discredit last game Di, you really did, and that was unfair) or be reasonable. I just hate this: "Hi guys, how sad s/he died, I'll be back" and then turning in the next day, just hoping no-one has lynched her/him as villagers had no case-enough...

And even with a threat of some spanking, I must admit, that I was very happy in the last game, when Nilp actually got lynched (after just voting for himself with nothing else posted the whole day) and turned out a werecreature! Just like that! More of these under-radar people caught the first day, the better for the future of the game, as no-one dares to just post once a "Hello-Goodbye"-post when it would be a practise to lynch those people to begin with... :cool:

And just trying to fly under the battledore-radar once more. So Di, you see? I don't mind people talking this or that, as long as they leave a trail and put themselves in to the gaming. I'm annoyed by the people who try to take advantage of others, just posting nothing or the least amount possible, and thence avoiding suspicion alltogether. Lazy and crooked, I say. I'll repeat my suggestion: take a game, where everyone just popped in day1 and said "So sorry... how sad... I'll vote for X". What would we have on the second day? A gathering of parasites randomly voting for each other for two or three days before any patterns could be seen?

But anyhow this is wonderful: just a few days of virtual marriage for game-purposes, and we're on each other more than we ever have before... So what does this tell us of these family-ties? :confused:

[Loki]

Everyone who is arguing: It doesn't matter. This game is this game. whatever happens will happen. We encourage people to post on the first day. Don't stress about things which fall beyond your control. Allow people to play as they wish within the preestablished rules. Day 1 is one of the most meaningfull days ever, even if very little of any importance happens on it. It is the day that happens before Day 2. Quit your whining.

Diamond18: No. We've agreed to keep it secret for the game's sake. Also, it will keep people from seeing us as collaborating.

Eonwe: OOC = "Out Of Character." I RP too much, I'm afraid. Also, typing the word "game" thirty times in a paragraph quickly becomes tiresome. I tend to take poetic license with my words.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Loki, I am amused by you. You speak so truly: Day One does, indeed, precede Day Two. I expect it will be an adventure in itself to watch you play. I'll have my eyes open, I promise.

[Lhunardawen]

Which bring me to another question: Lhuna, where shall we be living now that we have tied the knot? My place is a bit far in the woods, though it'll need to be looked after. We could sell it, and move in to town, of we could use it as a summer house deal. What say you? Put forth all the prudence of a good wife in this matter, for I leave it in your hands.
We live near my parents' house, I suppose? My mom and dad love me so much that they wouldn't let me go far with you. So I guess you can treat your place in the woods as sort of your office by day; I, on the other hand, have to stay in town because of my occupation. Every now and then, though, I'll be taking a leave from my work to go with you to the woods. Whatever I'll be doing there. How's that?

By the way, dear hubby, prepare to get a little jealous. Blame Eomer. :p :D

*;)s at Eomer*

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Oh, wow. I vanish for a couple days, and come back to see the drama beginning to unfold. I am so excited! *dances* :D

[the phantom]

First, I would just like to say that Day 1s can be very important. Events that happen the opening day can set things on course for a victory for one side or the other. A couple of games I've been in you might say were won or lost on the first day.

Second, we can't exactly compare this game to other Werewolf games. The dynamics are completely different. For instance, depending on what the EW chooses to do, it is possible that the wolves will have no clue who the other wolves are, thus there will truly be no patterns in voting to examine to help us catch wolves, and so even if we catch a wolf on Day 1 the votes might not tell us anything and Day 2 will be another Day 1.

There are also a couple of small but important factors that will change things, but I don't want to mention them. Those are eggs I'd like to sit on until after the game is in progress.

All in all, it is possible that every day will have a Day 1 feel to it until the GW decides to step out of the shadows. I'm going to go back on my earlier prediction (that the GW would step forward in 3 or 4 days), and instead predict that he/she'll be out as early as Day 2, or for sure by Day 3. But I certainly won't go into detail about the reasoning behind my prediction- not now. You'll just have to wait for the game.
There are a few flaws to be exploited in the game. I'm loathe to point them out, however, because I am not yet aware which side I will be playing for.
Indeed, there are a few nuggets I'm saving for myself. It will be interesting to see who else has been thinking along the same lines once the game is rolling along.

[Diamond18]

Just feeling the battledore whizzing in the air towards me... :D

Mwah ha ha ha ha....


But really also. I don't mean, people shouldn't have different strategies - or that the in-character-posts couldn't be actually pointed to something (and you got too much discredit last game Di, you really did, and that was unfair) or be reasonable. I just hate this: "Hi guys, how sad s/he died, I'll be back" and then turning in the next day, just hoping no-one has lynched her/him as villagers had no case-enough...

Well, I agree with that -- and unless someone had some kind of RL situation that popped up and kept them away from the computer, I can't feel too sorry for anyone who gets lynched after making one or two posts.


But anyhow this is wonderful: just a few days of virtual marriage for game-purposes, and we're on each other more than we ever have before... So what does this tell us of these family-ties? :confused:

Well it tells me that it's high time this game started for real. ;)

[littlemanpoet]

And we are starting at 10pm GMT on Thursday? I take it that will be a Night phase?Yes.

I have forwarded to Hookbill a request for all changes I've approved, or corrections due to my inept charting.

Nogrod: I may need to revise the rules for clarity by Thursday 6pm. Both the wizards have a lot of latitude in what they wish to reveal, when, to their team. I am going to disallow PMing between gifteds and between werewolves, however, because at some point the two wizards will (or at least probably will) have a wizard battle and kill each other off, and the game reverts to a classic game, and at that point there can't be any PMing between gifteds anyway; and in this game I won't allow werewolves to PM except at Night. So any PMing always has to go through the two Sub-mods, even if the wizards choose to reveal themselves. Although this may seem like an unnecessary complication, there is enough of a chance that enough of the gifteds & werewolves may get killed along the way that there is an entirely different set of them toward the end of the game as compared to the beginning.

current tally:

Perhaps we could know the current tally but not the final roles of those who have died ...?

(you may change your votes of course)

In favor: 6

SPM
Celuien
Roa Aoife
the phantom
Feanor
Eomer

Not in favor: 8

Lalaith
Nogrod
Diamond
Eonwe
Lhunardawen
Nilpaurion
Thinlomien
Glirdan
Spawn

Doesn't care: 3

Azaelia of Willowbottom
Diamond
Cailín

Voting may continue on this matter until 6 pm EDT Wednesday. At that point, the approach with the most votes will be adopted.

[mormegil]

++In Favor

[Alcarillo]

Put me down as

++Doesn't care

[Valier]

Put me down for...

++In Favor

[Naria]

I will go with

++Not In Favour


Oh yeah, btw....I can't believe that I, of all people, am related to Sauce and Cel. How did a quieter player(me) come from those two chatter boxes( :p ), perplexes me too no end....lol :D

[Firefoot]

++In Favor

[Kath]

++ NOT IN FAVOUR

I just played that game!

[JennyHallu]

Does not in favor mean we get final roles? If so, then I am not in favor.

++Not in favor

(p.s. You dratted Brits! I can't read your votes and then have any chance of spelling mine!)

[Caranlondien]

I'm still ambivalent...

++Doesn't care

[Gurthang]

Well, quite frankly I'm confused about what 'in favor' and 'not in favor' is actually saying at the moment, so I'm just going to explain what I want. :p

I'd like to see only the current role revealed of whoever is dying at the time. Any previous roles can be talked about later, after the game is completed. So:

++Whichever choice makes sense with what I just said

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Okay folks, here be goods!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/hukbillgoomba/FamilyTrees2.jpg

The table with changes as requested by LMP.

[Thinlómien]

Maybe it should be made clearer that LMP is Diamond's father? I mean, the line from him and R.I.P. leads to the = mark of Diamond and Nogrod's marriage... Well, I don't think it's a big problem anyway and maybe doesn't need to be corrected.

Great work, Hookbill!

[Sleepy Ranger]

Well, quite frankly I'm confused about what 'in favor' and 'not in favor' is actually saying at the moment, so I'm just going to explain what I want. :p

I'd like to see only the current role revealed of whoever is dying at the time. Any previous roles can be talked about later, after the game is completed. So:

++Whichever choice makes sense with what I just said

++What he said

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Maybe it should be made clearer that LMP is Diamond's father? I mean, the line from him and R.I.P. leads to the = mark of Diamond and Nogrod's marriage... Well, I don't think it's a big problem anyway and maybe doesn't need to be corrected.

Great work, Hookbill!

Argh! I just noticed that. Oh well. I can't be bothered changing it now. Takes up too much memory anyway.

[Thinlómien]

Well, quite frankly I'm confused about what 'in favor' and 'not in favor' is actually saying at the moment, so I'm just going to explain what I want.

I'd like to see only the current role revealed of whoever is dying at the time. Any previous roles can be talked about later, after the game is completed. So:

++Whichever choice makes sense with what I just said


++What he said

Actually, I'm a bit confused too and don't know what list my vote is in, so:

++agree with the brother of my brother's crush and my daddy

[Kitanna]

Well, quite frankly I'm confused about what 'in favor' and 'not in favor' is actually saying at the moment
As am I. And so:
++ Do not care

[Oddwen]

As I said earlier -

++ HIDE THE ROLES

[Roa_Aoife]

To all the people not in favor- as the phantom pointed out, discerning the roles using the tallies won't be terribly difficult, it will simply require more than a read through. This will also continue to generate discussion later in the game (you know, when everything gets so frustratingly quiet?) Don't be intellectually lazy. :p

[Roa_Aoife]

I just thought of this (For all you nay-sayers):

If the EW finds out who the GW is, he/she/it can simply wait until they see that the seer is dead then call the GW out, thus pretty much finishing the game for the villagers. It allows the EW to time his or her reveal to their own advantage. Of course, if we have only tallies, the EW can't really know when the best time for the wizard deul is.

[littlemanpoet]

9 in favor, 13 opposed, 4 don't care.

We will be revealing the most recent role as well as to who was killed each Night.

"So it was said, so it shall be done."

-or-

"Make it so."

[Roa_Aoife]

LMP- I thought you said voting on this was open until 6 pm EST today. 3 poeple have yet to vote.

[Loki]

It may not be the most fair, but there are explicit exploitations to be made either way. The question is: which side has the smallest chance of winning? Then throw it their way.

I realize that it's pointless at the time, seeing as how everyone makes decisions and votes are made before I even get online, but...
++Not in favor.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Roa. Though it really doesn't change my meaning.

[the phantom]

discerning the roles using the tallies won't be terribly difficult, it will simply require more than a read through. This will also continue to generate discussion later in the game (you know, when everything gets so frustratingly quiet?) Don't be intellectually lazy.
Exactly!

Come on, those of you who have voted to see roles revealed- change your vote! Let's make this game more interesting. Surely there are some of you who enjoy a bit of mental acrobatics.

Not revealing who is who could give the Wizards, Gifteds, and Wolves chances to either speak truth to the village or fool it. It would generate discussion. It would force people to form multiple theories.

If those things sound attractive, you need to vote "IN FAVOR".

[The Saucepan Man]

Given the amount of space it has taken up (to which I am now contributing), and the difficulty I just had in finding the latest version of the rules (despite lmp’s helpful update posts), it might (with the benefit of hindsight) have been worth creating an admin thread specifically for this game. :rolleyes:

A few thoughts.

First, I think that everyone should steer clear of criticising the playing styles of others. Everyone has a different style of play, whether adopted for tactical purposes, because of general inclination or as a result of RL events. Provided it stays within the game rules, then people are free to adopt whatever style they wish. That does not mean that particular styles may not be used tactically (either by or against the person in question), but please can everyone avoid direct criticism of other players.

By way of example:

“I think that X should be lynched because he hardly says anything and is not contributing towards finding a Wolf.”

… is fine, whereas …

“X hardly says anything and is spoiling the game.”

… is not.

Secondly, the thorny issue of OOC comments. It has become rather common for people to mention previous games and their fellow players’ exploits therein. I have never been entirely comfortable with that, as it somewhat detracts from the role-play aspect. Nevertheless, it is inevitable (and understandable) that people will use their previous experiences of games and other players in their decision-making and it is only fair that they be allowed to explain those decisions, rather than looking like they are simply making random decisions. Any rule against direct references to previous games is, in any event, easily circumvented by prefacing statement with things like: “I have heard tell that in other villages …” or “Knowing X as I do …” or "In a past life ..." etc. It’s up to lmp whether he wants to ban references to previous games, but I would not be in favour.

As far as Nogrod’s reference to Kath and I using “ungentlemanly tactics” in the previous game is concerned, well I am afraid that I take the view, in a game based on bluff and deceit like Werewolf, that anything which is not specifically prohibited by the rules is a legitimate tactic. It is, I think, as well to be clear on that point up front.


It seems to me as though "Day 1" decisions will be based solely on happensay and witless suspicion.Usually, yes (although not always). But I’m not so sure that will necessarily be the case in this particular game. We’ll soon find out, anyway.


The gifteds know who the good wizard is; the good wizard may PM the gifteds during the Day, and the gifteds may PM the good wizard during the Day.I think that we may have touched on this issue before, but I just wanted to revisit it. I am not so sure that the Gifteds should automatically know the identity of the GW since, should they become de-Gifted and then Werewolfed, they will be able to pass this information on to the EW. I realise that the GW can seek to avoid this by scrying the de-Gifted person following their de-Giftication and, if necessary, allow them to die, but this may get in the way of his/her other plans. Would it not be better, therefore, if it was left up to the GW whether or not to reveal him/her-self to the Gifteds (and, if so, which ones)? The EW enjoys such a privilege, so why not the GW?

Two further questions.

I assume that the GW gets to scry a villager on Night 1. Is that right?

This may have been addressed previously, but I’ll be darned if I can find it. Do Gifteds/Werewolves get to carry out their Night-time activities on the same night that they are scried/Werewolfed, or must they wait until the next Night?

Finally, I know from experience just how emotionally, as well as intellectually, absorbing Werewolf games can become. But, in light of events in recent games, please can everyone bear in mind that it’s just a game.

Edit:

Not revealing who is who could give the Wizards, Gifteds, and Wolves chances to either speak truth to the village or fool it. It would generate discussion. It would force people to form multiple theories.

If those things sound attractive, you need to vote "IN FAVOR".I thoroughly agree.

[mormegil]

In the last game I played, I was so stupid as to tell openly, I would be very badly available for the next 5-7 hours. Quite immediately the goose-Spm and the duck-Kath lynched me and won the game just by that.

So it's not so gentlemanlike as you might think...

Nogrod I'd like to point out that a lot of people miss 5 to 6 hours at a time so I don't think that you are required to point it out and that it won't look suspicous if you are gone. One should not be granted immunity based on absence. I do agree with SpM though and state that this game is based on deception, bluff, and treachery, to a degree, especially when you are on the 'evil' side so they can and should use any means needed to accomplish victory. Plus I rarely accept anyone's comments about RL if they are not posted on the admin thread as they can be used in the game thread as deception.

[Kuruharan]

I am not so sure that the Gifteds should automatically know the identity of the GW since, should they become de-Gifted and then Werewolfed, they will be able to pass this information on to the EW. I realise that the GW can seek to avoid this by scrying the de-Gifted person following their de-Giftication and, if necessary, allow them to die, but this may get in the way of his/her other plans. Would it not be better, therefore, if it was left up to the GW whether or not to reveal him/her-self to the Gifteds (and, if so, which ones)? The EW enjoys such a privilege, so why not the GW?

As LMP has conceived it, it basically does not matter who knows who the GW is. The GW is invincible except by the EW. Essentially, the GW could be announced at the beginning of the game (in fact, perhaps this should just be done and get it over with...?) and it might not really impact the game at all (well, except there will suddenly be a player who will basically just pontificate and everybody will be toadying up to in a nauseating fashion). The GW wants the EW to challenge because that is the end of the spawning of werewolves.

The GW basically lives to die (hopefully after getting a full stock of gifteds) while the EW lives to spawn werewolves.

[Loki]

I assume that the GW gets to scry a villager on Night 1. Is that right?

Now that's just plain silly. What motive would the GW have to spy on the lives of innocent townfolk? He would have to wait for Night 2. Unless, of course, the GW is The Saucepan Man, that lecherous barkeeper... that godless sodomite...

[Roa_Aoife]

There is the possibility the EW good use the knowledge of who the GW is to his or her advantage- say the EW waits until there are plently of wolves, sees that there are few or no gifted, and then chooses to kill the GW, essentially leaving the village in a horrible spot. There are advantages to secrecy on both sides.

Edit: Cross-posted with Loki. Yes, the GW scries one villager on Night 1, then gets to choose which gift to bestow upon said villager. Or the GW could choose not to bestow said gift, not that he/she would choose that, but it's a possible choice.

[Kuruharan]

There is the possibility the EW good use the knowledge of who the GW is to his or her advantage- say the EW waits until there are plently of wolves, sees that there are few or no gifted, and then chooses to kill the GW, essentially leaving the village in a horrible spot.

That is basically what the EW wants to do anyway...I don't see what the difference is.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm just pointing out one reason why the GW wouldn't want to reveal themself right off the bat. Of course, this all better as in game speculation. I think it should be up to the GW as to whether or not they are revealed to the gifted.

[Oddwen]

Then what have we the Herald of Benevolence for? Let the GW decide wether to reveal themselves or not.

it will simply require more than a read through.
*singing* Don't stop the werewolves when they lynch you, this game is more than just a read-through */singing*

[Kuruharan]

Then what have we the Herald of Benevolence for?

I'm here basically to do all the normal moderating stuff (i.e. Seer dreams, keeping track of Ranger protection and Hunter targets) so that LMP and Boro88 can do all the sorting out of the werewolf decision-making and cursed player stuff (and I don't particularly envy them because I think that job is going to be similar to herding cats...especially since we will operate with 24 hour days and have all that annoying Trans-Atlantic and Pacific communication to iron out).

[Loki]

Edit: Cross-posted with Loki. Yes, the GW scries one villager on Night 1, then gets to choose which gift to bestow upon said villager. Or the GW could choose not to bestow said gift, not that he/she would choose that, but it's a possible choice.

What? That's utter nonsense! How will the Good Wizard have known that werewolves were in his town without them first making their appearance?

"Oh, well, he's the Good Wizard." Then how does that explain the presence of this evil? An Evil Wizard could have been tampering with his magic. Seriously, that's ludicris. That's assuming that the GW knows all about the werewolves and is preparing for it, or just randomly bestows gifts of hunter or ranger or seer upon his people, and that's infeasible. Else, everyone would have some kind of power to combat this threat. The only explanation is that no one saw it coming, and thus the GW would not be spying on his own people unless he was some kind of pervert. Didn't anyone get the The Saucepan Man joke?

*grumble* *grumble*

I say let the damn players do what they want. If they want to PM each other, fine. if they want to "reveal" their roles to each other, fine. If the GW/EW want to reveal the roles of the wolves or gifted to them, fine. It's their decision, it's their way of playing the game. If they want to screw themselves over by playing badly, it's, quite honestly, their own fault. If we have to suffer for it, it sucks, but that's just called being "fair."

What is up with all of this useless banter?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Do I detect a smidgeon of sarcasm, Ye Trickster?

[Roa_Aoife]

"Oh, well, he's the Good Wizard." Then how does that explain the presence of this evil? An Evil Wizard could have been tampering with his magic. Seriously, that's ludicris. That's assuming that the GW knows all about the werewolves and is preparing for it, or just randomly bestows gifts of hunter or ranger or seer upon his people, and that's infeasible. Else, everyone would have some kind of power to combat this threat. The only explanation is that no one saw it coming, and thus the GW would not be spying on his own people unless he was some kind of pervert. Didn't anyone get the The Saucepan Man joke?

Loki, you must realize that this is not an actual RP. The back story is there for entertainment purposes only. It's a game, certainly, but not one where we must all be in character constantly. (In fact, too many in character posts could get you lynched.) The narration doesn't have to make sense. The back story doesn't have to make sense. The only thing that matters are the rules and the jobs we are given. If one is the GW, then they should behave as the rules dictate they should behave. If one is the EW, then one should behave as the rules dictate the they should behave. The narration, no matter how wonderfully done, is just dressing and is inherently unimportant as to how the game is played.

And I got the Saucepanman joke. :p

I say let the damn players do what they want. If they want to PM each other, fine. if they want to "reveal" their roles to each other, fine. If the GW/EW want to reveal the roles of the wolves or gifted to them, fine. It's their decision, it's their way of playing the game. If they want to screw themselves over by playing badly, it's, quite honestly, their own fault. If we have to suffer for it, it sucks, but that's just called being "fair."

Exactly. The rules as they are now state that the gifted automatically find out who the GW is, which some people are disagreeing with, including myself. The GW should be allowed to do as they wish, which includes choosing to not reveal themselves.

What is up with all of this useless banter?

Welcome to my world.... :rolleyes:

[Loki]

Loki, you must realize that this is not an actual RP.

My apologies. That was my mistake. I had not considered that. Still, I feel that it is more conducive to the story if the GW was not allowed to make a scry one the first night, but that's just my opinion. That rule would be up to the mod to decide. I mean, if this were a total democracy, you'd get complete and utter... ah. Well, that explains a lot.

[The Saucepan Man]

The GW basically lives to die (hopefully after getting a full stock of gifteds) while the EW lives to spawn werewolves.If the GW reveals at the outset and gets killed for his or her troubles with only one Gifted (or none, if there is no Night 1 scry), then I don't hold out much hope for the village. At any particular point in the game, there may be good reason for the GW to reveal to all the Gifteds, there may be good reason to reveal only to some and there may be good reason not to reveal at all. It depends how the game goes. I just think that the GW, like the EW, should be given the option.


Still, I feel that it is more conducive to the story if the GW was not allowed to make a scry one the first night, but that's just my opinion.Lecherous Wizards notwithstanding, it seems to me that the game would be rather biased in favour of the EW if the start of the Giftification process is deferred to Night 2. The usual rule is that the Seer gets a dream on Night 1, irrespective of the fact that the Werewolves have not yet struck. While this is no usual game, I see no reason why that usual rule should not apply. If you want a "story-based" reason, call it Wizard's intuition. :p ;)


That rule would be up to the mod to decide.Agreed. That's why I asked the question.


What is up with all of this useless banter?I think it's best that the rules are sorted out before the game starts, so that questions such as these do not need to be raised during the game (and thereby, possibly, affect it).

To which end, a further question (or two, strictly speaking).

Do the usual Seer and Ranger rules apply, whereby the Seer can dream of a particular villager only once and the Ranger cannot guard the same person two nights running? If so, then later Seers and Rangers are presumably not bound by the choices made by their predecessors.

[the phantom]

How will the Good Wizard have known that werewolves were in his town without them first making their appearance?
I feel that it is more conducive to the story if the GW was not allowed to make a scry one the first night
First, as Roa already said, this is not RPG, this is a game of Wizard Werewolf.

Second, lmp can solve your objection quite easily. He hasn't started the story yet. Why are you getting worked up about a supposed plot-hole now when the plot has not yet been written?

lmp has a quality brain and can no doubt think of a dozen ways to explain the GW's Night 1 activities without even putting his thinking cap on.

[Kath]

This is a game of Wizard Werewolf.
Never thought you'd be saying that in your life I'll bet! Nice shortening though.

[Loki]

First of all, the phantom, all the credit to him, but I believe you're giving LMP a little too much credit. I have no doubts of his rationalization of improbable events, but an explanation of such would be tenuous at best.

Regardless, these points had already been expressed to me, and I conceeded to them. No need in beating a dead horse. I understand that it's just a game. It was simply that I had gathered the impression that more role-playing was required.

EDIT: After being spoken to by... a friend, I realized that I may have been a bit insulting to LMP. *nod* My apologies, I had meant no disrespect to you, and if I've said anything to belittle your RPing skill, please, take it as "I haven't seen you RP, so I make no assumptions of the quality of your writing. I only know that I declared an obscure and nearly impossible task, and recognised that few people would live up to it. Even if it were accomplished, it would not hold up well, being a true stretch of the imagination. I would not assume that any old RPer I met on some forums would possess such skill." If you can see where I'm coming from on this.

[the phantom]

but I believe you're giving LMP a little too much credit
We'll see.
these points had already been expressed to me, and I conceeded to them. No need in beating a dead horse.
I only restated one point that had already been made- in one single sentence.

My primary point- the fact that no plot-hole exists because lmp has not yet provided the set-up- was a point that had not been made, and a point which you seem to not be conceeding, so I'm not exactly sure what multiple-already-conceeded-points I am beating like "a dead horse".

[Loki]

the phantom, there is no need to get touchy over this. My deepest apologies for attempting to help improve upon the game by pointing out plausible failures in matching story to game mechanics. I'll remember to keep any help that I may have to myself in the future.

In my defense, now, I was neither worked up, nor did I say that there was a hole in LMP's story. I said that I felt that it was silly to have the GW be able to scry on the first night, when he would likely not have known about an attack beforehand.

I would have called your "primary" point a fallacy within logic, considering that it was so far beyond the point (Obviously, LMP has not yet set up the storyline; I was providing a noted fallacy beforehand considering details that were already provided. More than enough data has been presented to assume that:

a. Werewolves attack.
b. The Good Wizard does nothing to try to stop this (i.e.- warn the townsfolk).
c. The Good Wizard PROBABLY didn't know about it, and therefore would not waste energy spying on the good populace for no damn reason.

Then again, I originally did not consider your "point" worth mentioning, and simply ignored it. However, if you would like to get into a fully-blown argument about this, I'm more than prepared to grind you into the dust. I simply request that it be done elsewhere. If you're ready to take a beating, I suggest that you PM me and we do not clutter the board with useless arguments.

[Kuruharan]

If the GW reveals at the outset and gets killed for his or her troubles with only one Gifted (or none, if there is no Night 1 scry), then I don't hold out much hope for the village.

It depends on what that one gifted is. If it is a Seer...hmmm... There would be only the three werewolves with no possibility possibility of getting any more. The wolves would be outnumbered something on the order of eight to one. Even those of us who have won by ourselves :cool: probably wouldn't fancy those odds.

(You do remember that in order for one Wizard to die, the other one has to go too...)

[Diamond18]

Oh goody, the game hasn't even started yet and already the insults are flying.

[mormegil]

whereby the Seer can dream of a particular villager only once

I never knew this to be a rule, if so why is it a rule? It seems that usually there wouldn't be a point in it and if there was the seer should have that option to redream of a villager. Let's assume there was a cursed villager turned wolf and the seer wants to recheck on them. Why should he not be able to do so?

[Celuien]

++ Allowing the Good Wizard to remain hidden from his/her/its gift recipients.

It seems somewhat unfair for a gifted turned wolf to automatically have the ability to reveal the GW's identity to new colleagues when the EW does not face the same risk if a wolf turns gifted.

[Roa_Aoife]

Now children....

The point was made, countered, remade, and recountered. Let's drop it now before this gets ugly. We don't need a repeat of past events. Everything is up to the great MOD-GOD, LMP, anyways. No need to argue. And don't either of you bother to respond to this. I much prefer it was just dropped.

[the phantom]

the phantom, there is no need to get touchy over this.
I'm not getting touchy, I'm just stating opinions and having a spot of fun with you in the process. It's a nice warm up for the game.
My deepest apologies for attempting to help improve upon the game...
That's all right, I forgive you.
In my defense, now, I was neither worked up
Not worked up, eh? Well, you certainly care about it enough to say things like-
Now that's just plain silly.
What? That's utter nonsense!
Seriously, that's ludicris.
I sort of interpretted the strength of your words and the amount of space you took up saying that the Night 1 Scry was not logical to indicate a certain amount of worked-upedness (that's my made up word of the day).
I said that I felt that it was silly to have the GW be able to scry on the first night, when he would likely not have known about an attack beforehand.
Yes, and I think it's silly for someone to waste their breath trying to say that a certain game rule or function is not logical and cannot possibly be rationalized, considering that-
1) It's a game
2) Almost anything can be rationalized within a story when there is absolutely no restrictive frame work.

And that is certainly the case here. The writer, lmp, has complete liberty to make anything any way he wants, and can set up any premise. If you have a problem with the reasoning behind the Night 1 scry, you ask lmp about it, suggest a premise, or just wait for the darn game to start- you don't start posting about how the rule doesn't, or can't, make any sense.
(and you certainly don't state that you feel the game moderator is not talented enough to set up a story)
I'm more than prepared to grind you into the dust
Children. :rolleyes:

I'm done. All that needs to be said has been said.

[Oddwen]

Now that's just plain silly. What motive would the GW have to spy on the lives of innocent townfolk?
How else will we get our Gifteds?

[Roa_Aoife]

phantom, that is wholly unecessary and a clear attempt to antagonize a new member just so you can have the last word. Frankly, you're above that sort of behavior. You have taken his posts out of contest, twisted them into something else, and you were highly insulting whole doing it. If anyone is acting like a child, it's you. Now, I asked you via PM, and I'm asking you here, please delete your previous post, as it is wholly unecessary. When you do, I'll delete this one.

EDIT: Cross posted with Oddwen- Loki has already said that he didn't realize this wasn't an actual RP. Please leave it alone now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Come off it... Unless Loki him/herself takes offense and asks the phantom to lay off, I see no reason why their mutual antagonism can't be viewed as entertaining on both sides.

Look:

Haha, a newbie is giving the phantom a hard time. That's hilarious.

Haha, the phantom is teasing the newbie. How droll.

If anybody is worried that only certain players are being teased, allow me to rectify that:

Y'all are a bunch of morons. Any chance you have of winning this game will be based purely on luck. The end.

Remember, everybody: this is a GAME.

[Celuien]

Let's drop it now before this gets ugly... No need to argue...I much prefer it was just dropped.
Seconded. Please, let's drop it. Watching this argument is making my head hurt. :rolleyes:

I'm sure LMP can answer any questions, comments or concerns. No need for anyone to get into unpleasantries on any side of this issue (my own being that I fully believe in his writing abilities).

Would anyone care for some hot chocolate? Tea? Cake? Anything to change the subject?

[Diamond18]

I agree with Fea.

Though I do find the rush to referee tp and Loki entertaining in and of itself. :)

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm all for mutal teasing Fea- it's makes the game funny as well as fun- however, somethings are crossing the line. That just brings down everyone else as well as causing rifts in the Downs community.

I also think that if Loki doesn't respond, he is showing a great deal of maturity.

Y'all are a bunch of morons. Any chance you have of winning this game will be based purely on luck. The end.

Finally, someone who agrees with me! :D :smokin:

And yes, Celuien, I'd love some cake.

[Nogrod]

= Roa
The rules as they are now state that the gifted automatically find out who the GW is, which some people are disagreeing with, including myself. The GW should be allowed to do as they wish, which includes choosing to not reveal themselves.

This seems to me also as a bit problematic - as Celuien also noted. Maybe the GW should be able to decide on that? And if everything works by PM's via the submods, everything would be under the control of the GW (s/he could reveal her/his identity to some, and the not to the others - that might be wise tactics on certain situations too).


And sorry Loki, but I can't just see your argument holding on any possible debate about the Werewolf-game - not to say beating anyone to dust... Leave your banter to the game, and see where it leads you to... (argumentum ad baculum - one of the most useful ones in a WW-game... :D )

Believe me - and the others here - these games have been played awhile already, and the balance is quite sensitive. Giving the "bad guys" such a head start would just produce a bad game - and there are some dark clouds over the village already with this new gameplay-mode of the Wizard-game. Leaving the village totally undefended from the beginning would be really bad indeed for any interesting - not to say balanced - gaming.

If you want serious RPG, go to the Green Dragon, and start climbing the ladder. It will only take a year or something... :p

WOW! This game is really gathering some momentum! I have never seen this kind of debate before a game has even started! This is looking good indeed!


And just a sidecomment to Spm (and Morm) - as you have brought these things up here...
= Spm
As far as Nogrod’s reference to Kath and I using “ungentlemanly tactics” in the previous game is concerned, well I am afraid that I take the view, in a game based on bluff and deceit like Werewolf, that anything which is not specifically prohibited by the rules is a legitimate tactic. It is, I think, as well to be clear on that point up front.

I truly agree. And I think I have said this quite a many times earlier. That was just brilliant gaming from your part - and I have spanked myself from my slip some thousand times already. Just don't beat the dead horse any more... :D

Btw. Morm:Your comments are just what I have made up there. Sorry if my English has spelled out a different intention. I thought - and still think - that one to be my bad, and their great tactical skill. One can just whine afterwards as much as one likes...

EDIT: X-posted with a row of sentiment... and would do with some tea and cakes too.

[Boromir88]

lmp has a quality brain and can no doubt think of a dozen ways to explain the GW's Night 1 activities without even putting his thinking cap on.
Really I thought lmp was a totally inept turkey. :p (jk everyone)

Morm brings up a valid point. In prior games there's no reason for a Seer to dream of someone twice. But in this type of game where someone the seer dreamed as innocent, could very well be turned into a wolf the next night, there is a reason as to why a Seer would want to dream of someone again.

I see no problem with questions and sharing your own opinions as far as untying the final knots and getting everything cleared away before the start.

But I also see no reason to believe that lmp would not be able to manage this game. He has informed me of doing several trials already and with some alterations from the original it turned out pretty much evenly matched for both sides. And those were just trials, not taking into account the experience of the players to manipulate the game for their side.

[Celuien]

Okay. Tea and cake for everyone. :)

I'll put some aside for LMP. Wouldn't want to leave him out of the fun, would we? Particularly after all those impressively detailed trials he ran.

Come to think of it, I never heard of the no multiple dreams rule. I suppose it just didn't occur to me since there's never been quite as much shifting as there is going to be in this game. It would be nice to have the option of redreaming. But could that role be covered by the GW by scrying potential newly cursed villagers? The GW would already know of lost gifteds, so checking on continued Ranger/Hunter status by a Seer wouldn't add much.

[littlemanpoet]

LMP- I thought you said voting on this was open until 6 pm EST today. 3 poeple have yet to vote.
Sorry, I must have miscounted. Anyway, the decision is made and final.

Announcement: The two wizards have been chosen and informed of their roles.

Regarding OOC comments; that is, references to previous werewolf games. I am allowing for the village to be a historically informed village. Thus, previous games may be referred to thusly: "My werewolf lorebooks say ....."

Tactics are tactics are tactics. Please learn the lesson in advance that I had to experience in game play: Instead of getting offended, think (!) about what the 'ungentlemanly' tactic might be telling you about the player.

I've changed the rules on gifteds PMing the good wizard & vice versa. (1)The GW has the right to keep GW identity secret. (2) ALL PMs passing between gifteds and good wizard must pass through the good team sub-mod, even if the good wizard has (been) revealed.

Whereas Kuruharan exhibits a thorough understanding of the purposes and motives of both wizards, both wizards nevertheless have control over when they reveal (unless lynched or scried, of course).

The GW gets to scry a villager on Night 1.

Gifteds/Werewolves get to carry out their Night-time activities on the same night that they are scried/Werewolfed.

I reiterate Saucepan Man's sage advice: Everyone bear in mind that it’s just a game.

Now that's just plain silly. What motive would the GW have to spy on the lives of innocent townfolk?Prophecy has strange impacts on such things....

The thread is now up. Here's the link to Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards (http://www.forums.barrowdowns.com./showthread.php?p=466954#post466954). Please familiarize yourselves with the setting, mood, and general set up, et cetera.

As soon as I have made sure all rule revisions are accounted for (crossing fingers), I will post them on the Game Thread.

I'll reply to posts 3139 and later on another post, as appropriate.

[littlemanpoet]

Do the usual Seer and Ranger rules apply, whereby the Seer can dream of a particular villager only once and the Ranger cannot guard the same person two nights running? If so, then later Seers and Rangers are presumably not bound by the choices made by their predecessors.Yes and Yes.

After being spoken to by... a friend, I realized that I may have been a bit insulting to LMP. *nod* My apologies, I had meant no disrespect to you...None taken. :)

Really I thought lmp was a totally inept turkey.:D

I find myself convinced that the seer should be able to dream of the same person more than once, for the sake of how this game works. The Ranger, however, may NOT defend the same person two Nights in a row; but may defend the same person every OTHER Night.

I think that's everything for now.

[Gurthang]

In all this excitement and anticipation, I almost forgot to go invisible. :eek:

Everyone, don't forget to go invisible! *Gurthang vanishes* :D

(If you've forgotten how: simply go to your User CP, on the left hand side click Edit Options, check the Use Invisible Mode box, scroll down and hit Save.)

[Diamond18]

Well, Gurthy, since the game doesn't start for another few hours yet, I think I'll hold off on the vanishing. ;)

I don't know if this will make a difference yet, but with the Day 1 start and finish times as they are, I am not going to be able to be around nearly as much as I wanted to. I'll be at work when it starts on Friday evening and then again all day Saturday, not getting home till maybe half an hour before the deadline (which won't be enough time to read all the posts and write one of my own.) All this is to say, you might as well expect me to be voting several hours early, at around 8 AM Saturday morning (CDT) and then vanishing for the rest of the Day. I can sometimes get online at work but it's not something to count on, by any means.

So anyway. :rolleyes: So much for all the talk I did about Day 1 posting. I'll be around for a few hours on Friday (from around 8 PM to midnight) and that'll be mostly it except for a half hour or so Sat. morning when I get on to vote. This is the worst possible time in my work schedule for a Day 1 to occur. :p

[Valier]

I suddenly had the feeling that I'm about to play dodgeball or something....waiting to see if you will be picked last for teams..;) Having the wizards as the team captains and they get to pick the players...:p

[Roa_Aoife]

I share your sentiment Valier. :)

I feel the need to inform everyone that I will be traveling over the weekend, and I won't be available for the first part of Day One. I will post before the Day is out, I'm just going to be late.

[mormegil]

Erm...Since the game has begun I believe all chat should stop on this thread and only notice of absence and the like should be posted here.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I don't mean to be particular--

You're just wavy, then, I guess.

Not that way. Now shut up, or I'll hit you with a Planck.

I hate Physics.

Enedwaith, I had put down an occupation here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=464853&postcount=2903), and you still haven't edited spawn's civil status. :)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm not going to trust myself to post or think lucidly tonight. Please don't take it amiss that I'm not going to be around much Day One.

[Gurthang]

Okay, I hope that most of you can now see the evils of too much pre-game discussion. And I don't mean discussion about rules or timeframes or stuff like that. For this particular game, I noticed a great amount of pre-game discussion concerning strategy. I would have commented at the time, but did not want to jump into the 'debate' and hoped that it would not affect the game. That hope has failed.

I've seen numerous times already where people have referred to the discussion that occured within this thread before the game. Now, LMP has graciously allowed us to refer to previous games (in a round about way). He has, however, not stated we could talk about anything that has occured in this thread. (It is true that he has not said we could not, but I think that that was implied. :rolleyes: )

Henceforth, I would love to see no more referals to this thread, the discussion herein, or any personal opinions spawned by said discussion. I know it is impossible to keep yourself from having personal opinions, but I think that we are all capable of keeping those seperate from the game.

Lastly, I think it is somewhat relevant (in order to understand our newest WW playmate) to read this (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=466221&postcount=2282) if you have not.

Thank you and happy posting. :)

[littlemanpoet]

I have given all players a means to refer to anything outside the game. Please use it.

Refrain from personal insults. As in, "You're quite obviously stupid if you didn't catch my meaning." None of that or its like.

Gameplay insults are another matter, and can always be understood as fun and game-intended. You know the type. "You insufferable mushroom picker!" "Thou churl." "You canker of society!" Get it?

[Diamond18]

*sigh* Gurth, if we're allowed to refer to other WW games in character "my ww lorebooks etc" I don't see why we can't refer to things in this thread as I attempted to -- presenting it as an in character comment about things that happened in the village before the death of Elempi.

Now, if Paul doesn't want us to do this, I'll try not to, but you only suppose that he doesn't allow it. And since I can suppose that he does, it's very pointless for you to tell us what to do and not do based on what the mod may or may not think.

Now, I hope to spend far more time in the game thread than this one, so, until our Mod God speaks, I'm not going to bother debating the issue any further.

Edit: X-posted with da man himself....

[Formendacil]

*cough* *cough*

And a reminder from the friendly neighbourhood busybody (and his popcorn): keep discussions/arguments about rules off this thread until Post-Game. There have been too many games disrupted/ruined by problems like this. If there is an issue, PM the Moderator. If the Moderator has a problem, he can correct the game.

*Goes back to popcorn*

[the phantom]

It's possible I won't be able to post on WW for a few hours, until near the end of the day. I'll try to escape early, but I can't guarantee anything.

[littlemanpoet]

*cough* *cough*

And a reminder from the friendly neighbourhood busybody (and his popcorn): keep discussions/arguments about rules off this thread until Post-Game. There have been too many games disrupted/ruined by problems like this. If there is an issue, PM the Moderator. If the Moderator has a problem, he can correct the game.

*Goes back to popcorn*

Amen.

Gurthang is forgiven for his well intended misfire, which, though it differs slightly from my wishes, available for your perusal above, is in the right spirit. Enough said. Back to the game!

[Sleepy Ranger]

I'm truly sorry for missing Day 1 but I wasn't feeling too well and my parents decided I ought to sleep in. I'm sorry! :(

[Nogrod]

An announcement, concerning the oncoming games.

Kath would like to have her TiG game to begin asap after lmp's, as her closing exams will haunt her after that. Therefore we will push the beginning of our TiGJ game a bit forwards.

So the next game should be Kath's TIG-game, and our game on TiGJ will start only when Kath's game is drawing near its end. That way we can have players to both games - and the timetable is much better for me and Lommy too: as our summer holidays start in the beginning of June. Then we will have all the time to come up with stories, deaths etc., and will be able to make the deadline around 10PM GMT, which seems to fit both Europeans and Americans.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

They always forget the East Asians. No wonder we usually get lynched when we do something crazy. :D

But hey, you can't please anyone. Besides, the two (or sometimes three) of us are quite used to it. :cool:

[Nogrod]

:D :(

You are right. Sorry...

[Glirdan]

I'm here to let everyone know that I won't be here for the next four days at most because I have things going on at school. I've incorporated this into my post already as to remind everyone. Sorry about the short notice though! I completely forgot until today. Again, sorry! :(

[Nogrod]

I'm here to let everyone know that I won't be here for the next four days at most because I have things going on at school. I've incorporated this into my post already as to remind everyone. Sorry about the short notice though! I completely forgot until today. Again, sorry! :(

If you are innocent, we will understand - if you are a wolf (or the EW), we will just beat you out blue! And never play with you anymore... :D

[Kuruharan]

I was always under the impression that it was against the rules for players currently participating in a game to be posting in this thread unless they had a pressing personal reason to do so.

Perhaps this is a rule that should again receive greater emphasis from this point forward...

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, Kuruharan's right.

Please do not post to this thread if you are one of the DW XXI players - UNLESS - you are announcing an absence or other emergency that others need to know.

This is out of consideration to all other players. Other types of posts could affect the game. Nobody wants that.

Thanks!

[Eonwe]

Sorry I was unable to participate toDay. Work detained me longer than ususal.

Also I should mention for future reference that I work from 7 am to 3:30 pm EST, which is two and a half hours before the deadline. So I might not be able to get on with any substance posts before around 4:30 at the earliest. Sorry bout that, that's just how the sched panned out.

[Glirdan]

Quick explanation time.

I did not vote for this Day because after I last posted, I intended to come back to vote. However, I got back and didn't have computer access at all until right now. Sorry everyone! Again, I won't be here when until about Friday so don't expect any posts from me until then.

[Lhunardawen]

I'm sorry as well. My hubby and I went out on a date. ;)

Seriously, I was caught up with near end-of-term schoolwork. In fact, I might have minimal participation this week. I'm really sorry. The week after should go more smoothly for me, if I'm still alive by then.

[JennyHallu]

I'm sorry too. My hubby and I went out on a date. ;)

Really. To fly kites and to his softball game. And I didn't know he wanted to go early to meet a friend, so I didn't vote before when I was on....SO SORRY!

[Kuruharan]

I believe somebody said pressing personal reason to post in this thread.

Explaining absences afterward does not qualify. Given the current structure and status of the game, missing a vote or two is a perfectly valid tactic. As is afterwards coming along here and explaining and attempting to cover yourself. It keeps you from having to make a stand in the voting and covers your tracks. This is not fair if some players attempt to do this and others do not.

I know this stance may seem persnickety, but there is a reason for it. We are trying to close as many potential exploits in the game as possible, and this is one of them.

[Kath]

With the kind permission of lmp I am here to tell you that I am modding the game after this one. However, I need it to start very soon after lmp's so there will be a very short window for signing up. Therefore, if anyone wishes to sign up now please PM me, DON'T post on here.

If you'd rather wait and see if you will feel up to another game so soon after this one that's fine, just beware that when I say I'm starting soon after I mean it. I want no more than three days between the end of his and the start of mine, and the shorter that time the better.

Roles and rules etc. will be posted on here once lmp's has ended but it will be a basic game, so a nice rest after this one!

I think that's it. I may be back to edit if I think of anything else.

[Valier]

Just to let everyone know I will be gone for the whole beginning of the Day.

[Glirdan]

Ok, I'm back...until Wednsaday. I then leave on a Field Trip and come back Thursday night. I'm also going to let you know that I won't post anything in the game right now because I am to far behind and I'd rather start fresh on a new day. Sorry everyone! :(

[Thinlómien]

Because of the possible confusion, we will announce this here for this one time:

WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë

So what really happened to Elenwë? What was the fate of the Noldor lost on the Grinding Ice? Who were those guys with the black suits? Who was behind all that? What is the meaning of life anyway? And what has Cartesian Dualism to do with any of this?

This TiGJ-game will start in early June (after Kath’s game has been going on for a while)!

Book your tickets here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12256&page=32&pp=40) to take part in this adventure – and to test the effectiveness of Hume’s guillotine!

- Thinlómien & Nogrod

[Garin]

I've received a rep point sans name saying I was missed. I have met the perfect storm of a non-participation-causing maelstrom.
Lost my job, had to move, lost my companion, my felines were taken away by aforementioned companion and then my lousy little lap top completely crashed and burned and I hope it will return home soon from the shop.
Anyways, I hope things will be close to normal soon and I hope to kick your behinds in the next WW. Cheers all.

[texas_flutes]

Is it to late to join? If not count me in

[Formendacil]

There is a link to the Junior Planning thread in Thinlomien's post, where you can sign up, fellows. This thread is currently reserved for notices of serious departure pertaining to LMP's WW game.

I mention it because, that being the case, signing up here may well not be valid.

[Naria]

Form, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Is what you are saying only pertaining to the Lomgrod game or Kath's as well(or both)? I don't really understand what the problem is. If one has died in the Little guy's game, why would one not be able to come on here and sign up or talk about another game? Is that not what this thread is for? :)

[Formendacil]

Form, I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Is what you are saying only pertaining to the Lomgrod game or Kath's as well(or both)? I don't really understand what the problem is. If one has died in the Little guy's game, why would one not be able to come on here and sign up or talk about another game? Is that not what this thread is for? :)

This thread isn't for signing up until LMP's game is done.

I was referring to Lomgrod's game, true enough. That is a Junior game, chronologically, and should, in any circumstances, be signed up for on the Junior Planning Thread.

As for Kath's game, she has directed that all those interested in joining PM her, so as not to clutter up this thread with chatter not related to the game in progress.

So yes, anyone dead in LMP's game can sign up- actually, since neither game starts until LMP's is over even the living can theoretically join-, and yes this thread is normally for that purpose, but no it is not to be used as such at this time.

Hope that explains it better...

[Kath]

Hi, poking my nose in again.

Could everyone currently signed up for my game please PM me with their occupations. I forgot that before.

Also, could no one else sign up by PM now please. I have everyone I need if the few I have as maybe's say yes.

Therefore could those I have as maybe's (I think that's only Mith, morm, and SPM) give me a definite answer within the next day or two.

Thank you!

[Nogrod]

Hi, poking my nose in again.

Could everyone currently signed up for my game please PM me with their occupations. I forgot that before.


Should these occupations be of a certain nature, or just anything we come up with?

And anyone realizing being left out of Kath's game, check the TiGJ-thread: the elves are going to pass the Helcaraxë in WW-style there! :cool:

That game will begin after Kath's is underway, most probably in the first days of June.

[Kath]

They can be anything you like!

I already have a poet, a butcher, a ninja and a gravedigger, so really, anything.

[Lalaith]

I am going on holiday and probably won't be able to get online for at least 24 hours if not longer. This should be ok for the purposes of the game, but as getting online will be quite difficult, I won't be on for very long when I do get on.

[Kath]

Since lmp's game is now techincally finished could I make a request please that any talk about that game be kept in the game thread so I can use this one to finish up the planning for my game.

Thanking you in advance :)

I will wait til lmp has done the final narration to begin though.

[Boromir88]

Kath, I hope there's some room for me in your game. :D I can squeeze in a game before the busy busy work comes in.

[Kath]

Well, alright :D

But that's it guys! No more spaces!

And I'll post the player list now with as many occupations as I've received so far so people know they're playing and whether they need to post an occupation.

Lhuna - traveller with absolutely no sense of direction
Cailín - tragedienne
Nilp - ex-world champion in chess
Fea - confectionist
Celuien - ketchup grower
Form - homeless wanderer
TGWBS - Pokémaster
Lommy - AA-adviser
Nogrod - owner of ME's first hamburger restaurant
lmp - gravedigger
Tom - tree surgeon
Caran - town poet
Findëasëa (from now called Fin) - alpaca herder
spawn - lumberjackess
Mith - aura consultant
morm - butcher
Durelin - ninja
Boromir - undercover assassin
Sauce - retired Arda-famous chariot racer and playboy millionaire

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Haud on. I didnae volunteer for this game, did I?

Sorry Kath, but I'm giving Werewolf a break for now. Good luck with your game, though. You're a true Werewolf heroine. :)

[Kath]

I shall cry my eyes out over it but I will remove you. :(

Blame Lhuna, she kept telling me people were joining and I just believed her!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I blame Lhuna for everything anyway so it's all in order.

Kath, dear, all you will miss from my absence is my getting lynched on the first day. You know I speak the truth. I'll be watching, though.

Ah, I remember! I told Lhuna I would play but that was only because I wasn't in LMP's game at that point. Things changed, of course. Sorry!

[Kath]

Fair point! Especially after this last game :D

[Cailín]

Kath, if you start your game before Wednesday / Thursday, I fear my brother won't be able to play at all. You should do whatever is convenient for you, though. There'll be other games and he's not addicted yet. ;) (shame, shame)

[Kath]

Well I was planning on beginning the game at 11pm tomorrow (Monday) so, is there anyway he can just miss the first Day and then appear? If he'll miss more than the first Day then I'm going to have to say no to him, but in that case he can always join Lomgrod's game.

EDIT: No, tomorrow is Sunday! Sorry Cailin, I don't think it's going to work :(

[Nogrod]

If he'll miss more than the first Day then I'm going to have to say no to him, but in that case he can always join Lomgrod's game.
He will be most welcome to meet the horrors of Helcaraxë...

Cailín: ask your brother to check the TiGJ-thread. We will start in the beginning of the first whole week of June the earliest... (June 3rd, 4th... or something)

[Cailín]

Then I'm afraid he cannot participate. The stress of final exams in Holland is inconcievable to anyone who has not been through them. Seriously. I really must be supportive sister here.

And I'm totally blaming Eomer for this, by the way. If he'd just died already... :p

edit: I missed your post, Nogrod. Thanks, I shall tell him that.

[Lhunardawen]

I blame Lhuna for everything anyway so it's all in order.Indeed? *glare*

I'm sorry, Kath. I swear it's all Eomer's fault.

And no, the apology doesn't mean I'm a wolf.

Occupation...hmm...I'll be a traveler with absolutely no sense of direction.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I've received a rep point sans name saying I was missed. I have met the perfect storm of a non-participation-causing maelstrom.
Lost my job, had to move, lost my companion, my felines were taken away by aforementioned companion and then my lousy little lap top completely crashed and burned and I hope it will return home soon from the shop.
Anyways, I hope things will be close to normal soon and I hope to kick your behinds in the next WW. Cheers all.That was me. Blame the clumsy fingers for the anonymous state of the rep. You are missed.

And envied?

Yes. The 100% lynch rate remains a wonder to behold.

Enedwaith, hope everything turns out well. Then get your behind back here!

Oh, and Kath, I'll be an ex-World Champion in Chess. With suicidal tendencies, of course. ;)

[Kath]

Celuien and Lommy I need occupations from you.

Sauce I need a yes or a no from you.

Now, to other matters.

Rules:
Deadline will be 11pm GMT - please don't ask me to translate that into EST or CST or anything because a) I won't be able to and b) my head will explode if I try!

NO double lynchings - if there is a tie the first person to get the most votes will be lynched.

Retractable votes - because I love the mad frenzy at the end when we have those.

Roles:
3 werewolves
Seer
Ranger
Hunter
Changeling - the person with this role will choose another player each Night and will gain that players power for the Night, in place of the real Gifted. For example, if I was the Seer and Lommy was the Changeling, if Lommy chose me that Night she would dream in my place, but I would be informed of who she dreamed of. If the Changeling chooses a wolf, that wolf cannot join in the Night's PMing (once they know they've been chosen) but nor can the Changeling. However, the Changeling does get final decision on the kill. They cannot choose the same person until 2 Night's has passed, and they cannot reveal anything they have learned about people's roles at Night, but while in posession of a Gift (be it good or evil) they are on that teams side. So, as a wolf they could kill the Seer if they knew who the player was, and as the Seer they could dream of a wolf to let the real Seer know who one was.

If that makes any sense to anyone I will be amazed. I'm not going to be here for quite a lot of the day but please ask questions, argue amongst yourselves, and will try to sort it all out when I come back, which should be at around 7.

The game will be starting today at 11pmGMT with a Night phase.

[Celuien]

Occupation...

Ketchup grower. Yes, it does grow on trees. :p :D

[Kath]

Of course it does! Thanks.

[Thinlómien]

I will be an AA-advisor. :D

edit: or consultant, or whatever you call those guys. Kath, feel free to rephrase my occupation, I think you know what I mean anyway.

[Celuien]

They cannot choose the same person until 2 Night's has passed, and they cannot reveal anything they have learned about people's roles at Night...So, as a wolf they could kill the Seer if they knew who the player was, and as the Seer they could dream of a wolf to let the real Seer know who one was.
:confused: Does that mean the Changling gets to tell you to tell the degifted Seer about dreams received while usurping the gift?

[the guy who be short]

Kathwen, I didn't know we were having silly occupations. In this case, I would like to be a Pokémaster.

[Celuien]

I can help with time zones, at least for those of us on EDT:

According to the line at the bottom of the Downs index, EDT = GMT -4.

So the deadline works out to 7 PM EDT.

[Caranlondien]

Changeling - the person with this role will choose another player each Night and will gain that players power for the Night, in place of the real Gifted. For example, if I was the Seer and Lommy was the Changeling, if Lommy chose me that Night she would dream in my place, but I would be informed of who she dreamed of. If the Changeling chooses a wolf, that wolf cannot join in the Night's PMing (once they know they've been chosen) but nor can the Changeling. However, the Changeling does get final decision on the kill. They cannot choose the same person until 2 Night's has passed, and they cannot reveal anything they have learned about people's roles at Night, but while in posession of a Gift (be it good or evil) they are on that teams side. So, as a wolf they could kill the Seer if they knew who the player was, and as the Seer they could dream of a wolf to let the real Seer know who one was.

This sounds like an interesting role... but I have a couple of questions. Which team are they on (i.e., under what circumstances does the Changeling win)? And it says that they can't reveal what they've found out at night... But if they find a wolf they'll obviously vote based on it, so are they allowed to hint at it? Finally, does the Seer dream of the Changeling as the Changeling or as an ordo?

[Nogrod]

Some more questions about the Changeling.

- Is the Changeling in the acquired role only during the night-phases? You say they are on that team's side when in possession of the gift, but what does that mean? So what are her/his primary goals?
- If the Changeling picks a wolf, will s/he just contact the moderator to decide the kill?
- What constitutes "revealing the information" gotten during the night? If someone learns that X is a wolf, can s/he make a case against the X on the next day with all might if s/he just doesn't say, that s/he knows it because of last night? It may become quite hard to remain sane if you come to change sides everynight - and trying to remember not to disclose any information gained at nights while taking part to the discussion.

[The Saucepan Man]

Kath, if you're starting tonight you can count me in. :)

I shall be a retired Arda-famous chariot racer and playboy millionaire. :smokin:

I would echo Caran's questions about the Changeling role. If he/she swaps sides with every new role, then it would make sense to play with that in mind. In other words, since the likeliest night-time pick is an innocent (whether gifted or not), it will surely be in the Changeling's interests always to play for the good side as this is the side s/he is most likely to end up on.

Would it not make more sense to say that the Changeling is on one side or the other throughout the game and that s/he can use his/her gift to that end? So, if on the side of good, s/he can use an assumed Wolf role to try to kill off a Wolf. And, if on the evil side, s/he can use an assumed Seer role to try to dream of other Gifteds.

I would suggest that the Changeling be on the Wolves' side (but without knowing their identities) and that s/he gains only the roles of the good Gifteds, making him or her rather like a "powered-up" Cobbler. Alhough that might require something to balance the game out, though, as otherwise the Wolves might be too powerful.

I don't know. Just some thoughts off the top of my head. But the Changeling role does need some clarifying though, I think.

[mormegil]

I don't know. Just some thoughts off the top of my head. But the Changeling role does need some clarifying though, I think.

I agree. I'm not sure how well this role will work out. I thought that you were going for a simple game Kath! :)

I'm rather perplexed at the general purpose of the role and how it all fits in together. I just spoke about shifting alliegances in Dueling Wizards and how difficult it felt for me the first day and I cannot imagine if you switch back and forth multiple times. Also this role has the potential to be super powered if he/she makes the correct picks. Let's say he picks the seer and dreams of somebody and it's the ranger. Next night he chooses a wolf and becomes one. Then the wolves know of two gifteds and dispatch them without delay. Now this is a bit far fetched I'll admit but possible and the changling could have far too much impact on this game in my opinion.

[The Saucepan Man]

Also this role has the potential to be super powered if he/she makes the correct picks.Quite so. But if the Changeling is on the Wolves' side, but unable to communicate with them and unable to direct kills, the only way s/he would be able to use the knowledge would be to try to influence lynchings. Ergo the "poered up" Cobbler comment.

[Mithalwen]

Befuddled already - can I change my role to village idiot? :rolleyes:

Does this mean that the changeling could unwittingly as wolf lill another wolf then being normalised next day get the wolf they chose killed...

[Kath]

Alright let's see if I can answer these questions.

Does that mean the Changling gets to tell you to tell the degifted Seer about dreams received while usurping the gift?
Yes, everything the Changeling does will go through me. The people chosen by the Changeling will never know who it was.

Which team are they on (i.e., under what circumstances does the Changeling win)?
During the Day they are on the villagers side. At Night they are on whatever side the person they have chosen is.

And it says that they can't reveal what they've found out at night... But if they find a wolf they'll obviously vote based on it, so are they allowed to hint at it?
They can hint in that they can find evidence in game to support it. They cannot say 'last Night I was a wolf' because they are not allowed to reveal.

Finally, does the Seer dream of the Changeling as the Changeling or as an ordo?
An ordo.

Is the Changeling in the acquired role only during the night-phases? You say they are on that team's side when in possession of the gift, but what does that mean? So what are her/his primary goals?
Yes. That means that if they are a wolf at Night the primary goal is to kill all the villagers, and if they are a Seer it is to scry a wolf.

If the Changeling picks a wolf, will s/he just contact the moderator to decide the kill?
Yes.

What constitutes "revealing the information" gotten during the night? If someone learns that X is a wolf, can s/he make a case against the X on the next day with all might if s/he just doesn't say, that s/he knows it because of last night?
Exactly yes, I believe that answers Caran's question.

Sauce, nice to have you in! But I'm going to say no to any ideas about the Changeling because it took me long enough to work out what I was doing with this version. Thank you anyway :)

Also this role has the potential to be super powered if he/she makes the correct picks. Let's say he picks the seer and dreams of somebody and it's the ranger. Next night he chooses a wolf and becomes one. Then the wolves know of two gifteds and dispatch them without delay.
Wrong. The Changeling cannot PM with the wolves, so they don't know who s/he may have dreamt of previously. And yes I know I said this would be a simple game, but that was compared to lmp's :p

As to being too powerful, that depends. If the Changeling were fortunate enough to choose all three wolves one after the other and was able to persuade the rest of the village to lynch them then yes. But how likely is it that one player is going to be able to do that? Half the time people argue against the Seer when they tell them who to vote for :rolleyes:

[Kath]

Does this mean that the changeling could unwittingly as wolf lill another wolf then being normalised next day get the wolf they chose killed...
I'm actually still undecided on that. Should the Changeling be able to kill a wolf as a wolf?

What do you think people?

[Kath]

Thread's open, yell at me if I've forgotten to put anything in. Roles are coming out now. I won't be back until about 15 minutes before the game starts (go my planning :rolleyes: ) so apologies if anyone has problems.

[Mithalwen]

I'm actually still undecided on that. Should the Changeling be able to kill a wolf as a wolf?

What do you think people?

I'd say yes ..it will be interesting ..besides if they don't get a kill they will know a second wolf.... well unless the Ranger is around ...

But if so can a Ranger protect a wolf from the Changeling uber wolf?

And if the hunter hunts the changelings changee who dies?

[Mithalwen]

So should I have had my role or should I go home since it won't be out till late...?

[the guy who be short]

I have had my role. So you probably should have.

[Mithalwen]

So should I have had my role or should I go home since it won't be out till late...?

Well I haven't *pouts* ... I know why don't you all tell me yours so I can work it out :p

[the guy who be short]

Okay, that should work. I'm Pokémaster. :D

Try PMing Kath; she is notoriously forgetful.

[Kath]

Right, I hope everyone has their roles now. Mith I just PMed you yours.

Anyone who hasn't I'm sorry! Just PM me and I'll try to get it all sorted before day begins tomorrow.

I won't be around for the first few hours of this Night so I apologise. I'm also going to start it now because I may not be here at 11.

Good luck all!

Sorry for the rushed start, RL suddenly hit me.

[Kath]

Sorry Mith didn't see these before!

But if so can a Ranger protect a wolf from the Changeling uber wolf?
Yes, though presumably not on purpose. Whoever the Ranger protects is immune to death, whatever they are attacked by.

And if the hunter hunts the changelings changee who dies?
The person the Hunter is hunting will die, not the Changeling. So if the Changeling took the role of a wolf, and the Hunter chose the same player, it would be the player that died, not the now lupine Changeling.

Oh yes and, how the Changeling can win:
If the Changeling is a wolf at Night and kills the final innocent during this phase, they win as a wolf.

If the last wolf is lynched during the Day, they win as an innocent.

[Thinlómien]

My mum just informed me that she's working at home for a few days this week, and she'll probably be occupying the computer, so I might be flood-posting less. Just to inform you.

[the guy who be short]

Exams = Quiet Guy. Incase you wonder about the sudden "change in tactics" that is so lynchworthy.

[Mithalwen]

And I am starting a new assignment (same firm different role) I may get a few minutes online at lunchtime but don't expect me untill late in the day...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Warning: I won't be around on Wednesday at all. Term ends and I'm moving home. If I'm still alive then, I'll be gone Sunday also.

[Durelin]

I've been without internet for the past few days due to a mix up with our service provider (I'm posting this here at school), so I'm terribly sorry I have arrived so late... Tis quite fitting, though actually...

Also, I apologize for my post being random and of no substance. I have yet to read through everything. Unfortunately I do not have the time right now.

[the guy who be short]

As Nogrod reminded us (and it speaks in his favour), each of us chose an animal at the outset. Presumably those animals will be associated with us in some way.
I don't remember this...

[Cailín]

I don't remember this...
Kath's notorious forgetfulness maybe?

Did she not ask you to PM your favourite animal?

[Caranlondien]

Just to let everyone know, I'm having difficulty getting Internet access as I'm visiting my brother and staying in a hotel, where the wireless signal keeps cutting out. I've been here for the whole Day, but I'll be back home by toMorrow.

[Kath]

Kath's notorious forgetfulness maybe?
I resent the 'notorious' part of that sentence, but it is most likely.

TGWBS, I have something planned for you though, so if you wouldn't mind it being a surprise?

Oh and I was just asked whether the Hunter could choose a player to take with them if they were lynched, and the answer is no.

[the guy who be short]

YAY! Surprise! :D (No, I mind not).

By GMT, Kath means BST, which is GMT +1. I would have brought it up before, but I forgot. Oh well, it was slightly more amusing this way.