Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Kuruharan]

But then again, Kuru, the phantom suspected you, and I trust his judgement (except against me).

This is a difficult statement. If the phantom was wrong about you, then upon what basis do you have such absolute confidence in him? On the other hand, if you have such great confidence in his ability...he suspected you before me. Shouldn't I then place such confidence in him and so believe the culprit is you?

However, before we rush to judgment, one thing...

As we know from The Barrow-Wight's post # 43, we were selected "randomly." I presume this means he drew our names out of a hat or something. Anyway, the point is that there is an equal opportunity for all of us to be the werewolf. The only thing we have to go on is our behavior up to this point.

As far as charges against me are concerned, I've always tried to give everyone a fair hearing. I've never argued for a rush to judgment. This is hardly the behavior of a werewolf who'd want to get the DAYs over with as quickly as possible. I wanted to give bilbo_baggins a chance to defend himself yesterday (would that he had done a slightly better job :( ) and, in spite of the fact that Mithalwen was clearly suspicious of me, I wanted to hear what she had to say. I'm not sure there is much more that I could say to convince everyone I'm not a werewolf except to point to my restraint throughout.

However, I'm having an extension of my thought of yesterday. Wouldn't it be a regular werewolfish trick to continue to hide in the tall grass and let the other two tear each other to pieces and then come in and cast the deciding vote? Just a thought.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Yes, Kuru, yes it would. But before I vote, I would like to hear Oddwen defend herself. I've already decided, but the two of you don't really need to know who I want to die just now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Come on, Oddwen. Save yourself from the gallows. I need to see a proper defense from you before I vote, and I've got to go to work at 3:00.

[Oddwen]

It seems as though you've already formed a judgement of me, Fea.

I am no werewolf. Random, yes, werewolf, no. My erraticism and pointlessness are from a fear of the game, rather than any master plan...

My vote for Firefoot was a completely random choice - It was a choice between her and anyone else who hadn't posted.
My retraction of that vote was a chagrined one, as I realized then that being hasty could be fatal to the wrong people.
As to the "odd" part of that post...that was as tp called it "a spot of fun".

Any lack of vote after that was because Sunday was a family day and I didn't get any real time online.

And on Monday and Tuesday...by the time I could get online, the voting was done and there was no need for me to say anything...nor indeed anything I could think of to say.

My hasty vote for Bilbo on Wednesday I regret, for I believe now it was another random wild shot on my part, only this time gone wrong. :(

Wouldn't it be a regular werewolfish trick to continue to hide in the tall grass and let the other two tear each other to pieces and then come in and cast the deciding vote? (Kuru)
This does seem like a very werewolfish thing to do. If you know anything about me however, you'd know that I loathe decisions and make them as soon as humanly possible, if at all.

It has to be Oddwen. (Fea)
Why? I've been my usual random self. Though I don't know much of you two, Kuru is the one acting closest to what I know of his behavior.

I think mormegil is the seer. I say this because of what I've already said... he's the only one to put forth that he thinks I'm innocent. That's a danger to him, but if he knows that I'm innocent, he would try to keep me alive any how.

Why would you reveal your suspicions on the seer when others feared losing him too much to say anything? Seems to me villagers, in addition to defending ourselves, would have a duty to hide the seer if he was the only one who could KNOW about a werewolf.


These are very disjointed thoughts, I'll try again tonight.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

No need to try again, Oddwen, since I don't think you are guilty. I think it is Kuruharan who has been playing us as fools.

Frankly, I was afraid that you wouldn't post in time and that you would then be considered to be voting for yourself. I assumed that Kuru would then proceed to kill you off and win the game.

Of the last three players, I know that I am innocent, and I've long since decided that you are. My vote is for ++Kuruharan, and has been for awhile now.

[Kuruharan]

Actually, I’m the one who has been played for a fool. However, I’ve probably deserved it. From DAY ONE I thought Feanor was a werewolf. Her behavior that day and sometimes subsequently has been puzzling, as I noted before. She attacked both Saucepan Man and bilbo_baggins on the first day and was supported in her assertions by Anguirel. Now, we know all too well that Saucepan Man and bilbo_baggins were innocent and Anguirel was the werewolf. Feanor never did retract her vote from Saucepan Man that day, even though she had plenty of time to do so.

On DAY TWO Feanor looked like she was going up the steps. I thought this was a perfectly rational thing to do. However, mormegil was the seer and convinced us (more or less) to hang Firefoot. This turned out to be correct. However, notice on that DAY Feanor couldn't resist returning to beat on poor bilbo_baggins...again. However, she did not actually make a vote for some time, almost as if she’s taken a hint from something. She finally did cast her vote against the phantom, who we now know to be innocent. Is anyone else seeing a pattern here? Notice how after Mithalwen voted for Firefoot, Feanor changed her vote as if she saw a way out of her little mess by hopping on the bandwagon.

Now, lets take a look at the pattern of the last couple of victims. On DAY FOUR, we awoke to find that the phantom had absconded. On DAY THREE, even though he voted for Primrose, the phantom actually built a case against Feanor which at least seemed plausible. (Would that I had listened at the time.) The summary of his remarks on the subject is that mormegil may not have dreamed about Feanor. He may have just assumed Feanor was innocent or, as the phantom suggested, he was trying to let us know that he did not know about Feanor. Low and behold, the next morning the phantom is dead.

On DAY FIVE, what happens but Feanor’s favorite old whipping boy bilbo_baggins turns up in the dock. While, I must admit that it seems a little suspicious that Oddwen put him up, Feanor’s contribution to the situation piles onto a mountain of suspicion much greater than Oddwen’s. Feanor certainly acted with the utmost alacrity to add her vote to one who we now know to be innocent. Then we had Mithalwen, the dissenting voice (forgive me Mithalwen, for I have yet again done something incredibly stooopid) who returned with a reinforced argument that contained bits and pieces of my original arguments. I’m beginning to think that the reason why I’ve lasted this long is because I’m so obviously stone deaf that I can’t hear a thing that is said to me. Well, I’m listening now and I hope it is not too late.

Then we have this lulu of an exchange…

Mithalwen-

If one of them is guilty then I salute you for playing a blinder

To which Feanor responded-

I'm not sure what a blinder is (presumably someone or something that intentionally messes with how people see things?), but I will gracefully accept that salute.

Now I wonder if Feanor is really so very ignorant of what Mithalwen said. On the face of it, Feanor just confessed to being the werewolf we’ve all been looking for. Now, she may really not have known what “blinder” means. (In case anyone does not know, it means doing a really good job and such like). In this context, Mithalwen was referring to the werewolf. I begin to think it is possible that Feanor said that sarcastically, attempting to cover it, but still sarcastically believing that Mithalwen was in bed and would not be up again until too late.

Then, what do we find on DAY SIX? Mithalwen is unceremoniously (and I do mean unceremoniously) slain, who had been so dangerously persuasive on DAY FIVE. Someone apparently did not want Mithalwen’s brain to be working on this problem any farther. And, what does she do but accuse me who has done nothing but attempt to exercise patience throughout. She's probably mad at me because I failed to seal bilbo_baggins' fate hours before Mithalwen could have intervened and tried to direct us onto the true course. Also notice that there is no explanation as to why I am guilty. Just an implicit demand to go along.

Well, here at last, on the shore of the…uhhh…town pond, I come again to the same puzzlement that has beset me from the beginning. Why would Feanor go charging off at anybody and everybody without any knowledge of the situation? The obvious answer is that she is the last werewolf. No other explanation makes nearly the sense that this one does. And here we are, three of us left and one of us is a werewolf. One of the three is the one we’ve suspected from the very beginning. She's been incessantly howling her innocence to anybody and everybody. As Shakespeare said "I think she doth protest too much." I should have never abandoned my belief in the simplest answer always being the best. I think we should have done this a lot sooner.

++ FEANOR OF THE PEREDHIL

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

From DAY ONE I thought Feanor was a werewolf.
So from day one, you were wrong. Congratulations.

She attacked both Saucepan Man and bilbo_baggins on the first day and was supported in her assertions by Anguirel.
Yeah, because on the first day, I thought that they were guilty, and on the first day, Anguirel was trying to get me killed. When the game is over, ask him yourself.

Feanor never did retract her vote from Saucepan Man that day, even though she had plenty of time to do so.
Because I still thought he was guilty.

On DAY TWO Feanor looked like she was going up the steps.
*giggle* Yeah. I'm glad you guys changed your minds... would have been awful if you'd killed an innocent (me) instead of a werewolf (Firefoot).

However, notice on that DAY Feanor couldn't resist returning to beat on poor bilbo_baggins...again.
Because I still thought he was guilty.

Feanor changed her vote as if she saw a way out of her little mess by hopping on the bandwagon.
Because I realized that even though I'm really good at keeping myself alive, I'm apparently really bad at guessing who's guilty or not.

the phantom actually built a case against Feanor which at least seemed plausible.
Plausible, yes. Accurate... pretty much. Did tp come to the wrong conclusion... heck yes he did.

Now I wonder if Feanor is really so very ignorant of what Mithalwen said.
I am. Honestly, I'd never heard the term before. Hence my pretty much entirely inaccurate guess of the meaning.

Just an implicit demand to go along.
I'm like that. Plus I was busy. Remember B-W's unceremonious killing of Mithalwen? My attempted lynching of you fits into those same guidelines.

[Kuruharan]

Oddwen-

First of all, before I say anything else about what Feanor just said, I'm not asking you to believe just me. I'm asking you to believe the phantom and especially Mithalwen. Re-read what Mithalwen said yesterday and just think about what she'd be saying if she'd made it to this point. I think there is a painfully obvious reason why Mithalwen could not possibly be allowed to make it here.

Feanor is asking (actually demanding, and beginning to get kind of shrill about it to, if I may say) you to take her word for it (always unwise in a game of this nature) and offering no evidence to support it. She just taunts me for being "mistaken" and then embarks upon a voyage of self-justification.

Now,

Feanor-

Regarding The Saucepan Man and bilbo_baggins (said repeatedly)

Because I still thought he was guilty.

(Notice the italics, she seems to be getting desperate.)

Why? There was no reason to think so. There was never any reason to think Saucepan Man was guilty. Suspicion about bilbo developed only gradually. So, I ask again, why?

*giggle* Yeah. I'm glad you guys changed your minds

I bet.

Plausible, yes. Accurate... pretty much. Did tp come to the wrong conclusion... heck yes he did.

This does not follow. If it is plausible and accurate (by your own admission) then the chances are that it is true.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think there is a painfully obvious reason why Mithalwen could not possibly be allowed to make it here.
Sure there is. This one:

And just think... if we kill bilbo and I'm wrong, then tonight the werewolf will kill another innocent. That narrows the list of Alive down to three people. If I'm still alive, and Mith is still alive, that pretty much means I'll know who the werewolf is.
offering no evidence to support it
I most certainly gave an excellent reason for my choice. I know that I'm innocent, and I'm reasonably certain that Oddwen is. Looking around, I see only you left. I'd be happy to point my finger if you can give me another target. Can you blame me for choosing you by default?

(Notice the italics, she seems to be getting desperate.)

The idea was to get my point across.

This does not follow. If it is plausible and accurate (by your own admission) then the chances are that it is true.
Sure, chances are that it's true, but chances are often wrong. Let me clarify: given the evidence that the phantom saw, he came to that conclusion. My point is that he was not seeing what was there. He misread the evidence. Remember how we accidentally lynched a few innocents? You blame me for it, but I certainly wasn't the only person voting. If y'all honestly thought I was guilty, then why in the world would you listen to me!?

[Oddwen]

Well, here's the end:

Fea, you don't think I'm guilty because you know that you are. Your last words to me are a last-ditch attempt to turn me against Kuru.

Not for nothing have you been suspected by everyone in this village. You are a very subtle wolf - the "sneak" that fits into your own unholy trio. And dangerous as well, as poor Mith, phantom, morm, bilbo and Primrose know. You've succeeded in throwing the attention away from yourself very well indeed.

Thus, I must side with the unfortunate dead and vote ++Feanor of the Peredhil, as should have been days ago.

(And if I'm wrong, I pray to die swiftly :p )

[Kuruharan]

And just think... if we kill bilbo and I'm wrong, then tonight the werewolf will kill another innocent. That narrows the list of Alive down to three people. If I'm still alive, and Mith is still alive, that pretty much means I'll know who the werewolf is.

-and-

I know that I'm innocent

The problem with this is that you are still demanding us to take your own word for your innocence and demanding that we completely ignore the mountain of evidence against you.

My point is that he was not seeing what was there. He misread the evidence.

Based upon what? This doesn’t make any sense.

And you still did not explain why you thought Saucepan Man and bilbo_baggins were guilty. Probably because you knew they were not.

If y'all honestly thought I was guilty, then why in the world would you listen to me!?

It wasn't a matter of just listening to you. There were other voices to consider. In the case of bilbo_baggins, I had a theory I wanted to test out. However, unlike some people I could name, I did not drive the boot in when I could have. I waited. I wanted to see what other people had to say. Does that seem like the behavior of a werewolf?

You are probably picking on me now because I seemingly have a slightly roguish personality and you think you can convince Oddwen on the basis of that. However, as I noted above. The Barrow-Wight did not choose people on the basis of personality.

EDIT: Well, I see I was preceeded again. :o

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The problem with this is that you are still demanding us to take your own word for your innocence and demanding that we completely ignore the mountain of evidence against you.

Yeah, pretty much.

Does that seem like the behavior of a werewolf?
Yes.

------------------------

At the end of the long ordeal, the oft accused and rarely believed (yet incredibly beautiful, clever, and deep) Feanor of the Peredhil bowed politely to those who meant to kill her. She knew that her chance to convince them was over. She strode calmly to the gallows, taking deep breaths to steady her nerves. Fea stuck out her tongue once, in an imitation of Einstein. Patiently, she awaited her own death.

[Kuruharan]

The two remaining villagers lept up, seized, and bound this latter-day Cassandra. They were not particularly gentle because they were certain they now had found their werewolf; the one who had caused them so much trouble and cost them so many friends.

Feanor remained aloof and endured the rather ill-meaning knocking about she took as they hoisted her up the steps. The burlap sack went over the head, the noose went around the neck, and Kuruharan pulled the lever.

Alas, they were not skilled hangmen and poor Feanor gagged rather loudly and flailed about like a landed fish for some moments until she finally choked to death.

Oddly enough, she never showed signs of being a werewolf.

A deep silence ensued.

"Sooo..." said Oddwen, "she wasn't the werewolf?"

"Apparently not," replied Kuruharan.

"Sooo..." said Oddwen. "Even though she behaved in a completely irrational and unbelievable manner from the very beginning, she was in fact as pure and innocent as the wind-driven snow?"

"Weeell," replied Kuruharan, "at least of being the last werewolf. Who knows about anything else? Had I been in your place I'd have voted against her too."

"And I'm not the werewolf," said Oddwen.

"No, I don't think so," said Kuruharan.

"So in the end she was right about you?" asked Oddwen.

"It does appear that way," said Kuruharan.

"Hmmm..." said Oddwen. "This is not exactly how I'd expected the last frightful devouring to go. I'd expected something a lot more violent and a lot less verbose."

"Consider it stress relief after the truly wretched start I had," replied Kuruharan. "As the Wight can tell you, I seriously doubted from the beginning that I'd make it very far, much less win, especially after the others bought it."

"Oh..." said Oddwen.

Another pause.

"Before you eat me there is something I'd like to know," said Oddwen.

"Oh ye who has but a moment to live, what do you want of me?" asked Kuruharan. "The villain answering the final question of the hero is customary after all."

"I'd never heard of a dwarf werewolf before," said Oddwen. "How'd it happen?'

"I have no idea," replied Kuruharan. "It just sort of dropped on me one day..."

There was furious roar and a rush of gray fur...


THE END

WEREWOLVES VICTORIOUS!!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Very nice, Kuru.

Fea shakes hands with all the players.

That was more fun than I've had in ages.

Oh, and one more thing...

I told ya so. :p

[Kuruharan]

Only at the last where it didn't do ya any good... :cool:

[The Only Real Estel]

After observing the proper moment of silence for Fea, and not knowing exactly when the proper time is to do this, I'm going to proceed the best way I know how. Although there's a 95% chance I won't have access to a computer on Saturday and an 80% chance that I won't have access to a computer on Sunday, I'm going to throw my hat in for the second game and hope that I am not suspected to be a werewolf and lynched (which I probably won't be, having done nothing in a conceivable pattern), or killed by a werewolf (which I probably won't be, because I won't pose as even a minor threat until Monday, in all likelihood) before Monday. Oh yeah, I guess I do have to survive the 'kill them if they haven't talked yet' idea, but having given notice that I won't be posting I'm hoping to avoid that...

[Holbytlass]

Oooh, that was great!! I had never heard of any sort of game like that. Very intriguing and just.....well......GREAT!! Hats off to all players. And speaking of hats, I'm throwing mine in for the new one, please.

[Oddwen]

What's this? I lost the game, multiple innocent lives were lost, and I died horrifically in the end? Hey, my ultimate lifelong fear wasn't so bad after all. Nobody's yelling at me anyway...yet...:eek:

Seriously, good game guys. Congrats to victorious Loup Kuru on his gory win, and count me into the next game if there's a spot open. :D

[Shelob]

As much as I appreciate you all taking your hats off to all players I would like to point out that I did little but rot and stare impressively at the deductive skills of the remaining players. So I join you in congratulating them, it was well played (and I don't think I mentioned it but, Barrow-Wight, your post for my death made my day when I saw it...Thanks.)

I know I already requested a place in the next game but I have to retract my request.
A closer look at my upcoming schoolwork suggests that the next few days I would be better spent dancing to the tune of obsessive teachers than risk dancing in the breeze or with a wolf dancing upon my grave. Since the game is probably going to last only a few days I'll more than likely be joining you for the one after that (since there clearly seems enough interest for there to be a third game).

My thanks and Good luck to the next village.

[The Only Real Estel]

Since the game is probably going to last only a few days I'll more than likely be joining you for the one after that (since there clearly seems enough interest for there to be a third game).

The thought had occured to me of waiting until the third game, but, being a person have very little self-control, I don't think I could wait that long :p. I could barely wait the day-and-a-half for the last game to get over with (I discovered it late). I suppose I'll think on withdrawing, but for the meantime my hat is still in the ring (and it's likely to remain there). :)

[Shelob]

You're busy through Monday and so unable to really pay attention to the game until then, a more recent look at my workload suggests I won't be able to really spend time here until Thursday...I would like to have a part in the next game and am really irked at the idea of waiting, but what's the point of taking a spot someone else could actually use if I must be mute. This way someone else gets a chance to play and I'm not distracted and so able to get my work done...sure I must impatiently wait for another chance to to risk death at the hands (or paws, depending) of you people but on the whole everyone wins (and this is probably the only time it can be said that 'everyone wins' in relation to this game)

[Encaitare]

I would like to take part in the next game. Nothing like suspicion, intrigue, and accusation to brighten up my day!

[Kuruharan]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with your sig there Estel.

Misleading is the key, not necessarily lying per se...

Note for The Saucepan Man

I heartily endorse the no-retraction rule on voting. I'm not so sure about mandating a minimum amount of debate though. I think just a no retraction rule would probably serve the purpose of making people think before they vote more effectively than a set amount of time. (Might help avoid awkward situations like arose at the start of DAY 4. bilbo_baggins was within a hair's breadth of being put down before he even had a chance to say a word, let me tell you... ;) )

Setting a minimum debate time might be counterproductive in stimulating debate because people might be afraid to say anything before the minimum time had passed.

EDIT: I trust we will get a new thread for the next game (although I haven't decided if I want to play yet...I may just want to sit back and bask and gloat ;) !)

[the phantom]

So, it was Kuru that killed me.

After I died instead of Mith, it made me suspect Kuru just as much as Fea.

Was it this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=389036&postcount=194) post that made you kill me, Kuru? You knew I was going to kill you and Fea if I stayed in, didn't you?

Beautiful game, everyone.

[Kuruharan]

Was it this post that made you kill me, Kuru?

No, not specifically. It was either you or Mithalwen that night. I'd decided that even before that particular DAY phase started. I don't remember exactly what made me pick you. I think it had something to do with I thought I would have an easier time making it look like Mithalwen had eaten you than you eating Mithalwen...or something like that. However, that next DAY did not go the way I had expected it to at all! I was offered an unexpected gift that I decided to refuse!! ;)

[the phantom]

However, that next DAY did not go the way I had expected it to at all!
No kidding. I groaned something terrible when I saw that Bilbo was getting votes. If Bilbo got killed, I figured the wolf would win since there would be only one more chance to kill it and two good suspects to kill.

[Ainaserkewen]

That was so much fun to read! Can I request to be part of the next game? I've played a similar game on every band trip ever, we call it Mafia, with cards. I love it. So...yeah, *whine* I wanna play!

[the phantom]

*whine* I wanna play!
Beat it, kid. Whiners aren't allowed to play this game.
we call it Mafia, with cards
"Mafia"- yeah, fun game.

"with cards"- huh?

Explain the "with cards" part (if it's a long explanation, pm it).
I haven't decided if I want to play yet...I may just want to sit back and bask and gloat ;)
No- please don't. If I'm a wolf next time I want you in the game so I can maul you. :p

[mormegil]

Kuruharan, you killed me at the right time. Had I lasted next round you were my target. I decided to dream about Feanor because I believe Phantom to be innocent and I knew Bilbo was (I dreamt of him the second night because he looked suspicious and I knew that Feanor could easily be hung at anytime). So if Feanor was innocent I was suspecting you. You were playing it too good, just as I would want to play as the wolf. Voting but not being incriminating of any wolf, showing that you knew strategy well in some of your posts. I was hoping they would catch you but well played.

[mormegil]

First off I don't envy the seer. It's difficult to be useful and keep yourself alive. Secondly I don't think I will be able to play :mad: I am making a trip to Miami to check it out before I move there. I am leaving on the 25th so I think I'll try and catch the 3rd.

[Ainaserkewen]

Well phantom, we all sit around a circle, 20, 30 of us, and everyone gets passed a playing card. If you have a red card, you're a villager, if you get a black card, you're Mafia, if you get a face card, depending on your Narrator, you are a Doctor or a Sheriff (Seer). You play in the dark and it usually goes on for about half an hour. It's quite a noble Music nerd sport.

Oh, and don't worry, I was just kidding about the whining thing...I just was reaching out for some attention.

[the phantom]

I decided to dream about Feanor because I believe Phantom to be innocent and I knew Bilbo was (I dreamt of him the second night because he looked suspicious and I knew that Feanor could easily be hung at anytime).
Ha! I was so right about that. I tried to tell them you didn't dream about Fea, and the reasoning I gave was exactly what you said- because you knew Fea could easily be hung at any time.

If you want to read more of my thoughts about the game we just played, read my latest (May 20th) entry on my Random Thoughts (http://www.freewebs.com/phantombarrowdowns/randomthoughts.htm) page.

[Anguirel]

I think next game I hope to be a heroic villager. Or a Seer! Whatever my would-be predecessor says about the job's disadvantages...

Well, though I bought it so quickly, I think lashing myself closely to Fea paid off eventually...well done Kuru!

[The Only Real Estel]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with your sig there Estel.

Misleading is the key, not necessarily lying per se...


Well, that's true; but 'becoming a misleader' didn't sound as good as 'becoming a liar'. :p

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I enjoyed reading this thread very much and I'd like to participate the next massacre! I must admit that I was totally clueless about who's a werewolf and who's not. So well played!

[Kuruharan]

No- please don't. If I'm a wolf next time I want you in the game so I can maul you.

No doubt. After this I seriously doubt that I'll ever last very long at all. The villagers will always hang me on general suspicion and the werewolves will always eat me. Oh well.

I am afraid that I'm going to have to deny you the privilege of mauling me for at least one game. I'm going on a little road trip starting today and I won't be back for a couple of days. I imagine the next game will have started by then. Better that I don't try to take somebody else's spot. I'll play again time after next.

Kuruharan, you killed me at the right time.

I knew I did. That was the only time I was thinking reactively. (I probably shouldn't have said that, it's a trade secret.)

Well, that's true; but 'becoming a misleader' didn't sound as good as 'becoming a liar'.

Try it, you might like it.

[the guy who be short]

This thread was scarily addictive; I found myself coming back every few hours so I could keep up with the debate. I even ended up dreaming about it (not pleasant).

I would very much like to play in the next game, but like others I will have to show constraint, at least until half term in a week (when there will be a gap in my otherwise constant exams... sigh.)

I have to congratulate Anguirel and Kuru especially, Ang for making me suspect Feanor so much and Kuru for arousing no suspicion whatsoever. Then again, maybe I'm just rubbish at the game.

[Mithalwen]

Even though she was innocent I still blame Fea ;) .... especially since she is being so smug... :D Muddied the waters so much.... I suspected Kuruharan a bit more after I died - Fea could not have killed me after my accusation or it would have been obvious she was the werewolf. Oddwen had no reason to kill me sinceI had said so often she was least of my suspects. However after their killing of Bilbo on such thin evidence.....

[Holbytlass]

Shelob, I know you think that you didn't do anything, but congratulations are still in order. Unless I am mistaken, you hold the position of being the first one killed (on purpose) by fellow downers!! And a fantastic feat it was since we are already dead!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Even though she was innocent I still blame Fea ;) .... especially since she is being so smug... :D Muddied the waters so much.... I suspected Kuruharan a bit more after I died - Fea could not have killed me after my accusation or it would have been obvious she was the werewolf.
I'm still looking for that salute. And Mith, just so you know... if I was a werewolf? I'd have made it obvious I wanted you dead, and then I would have killed you. Why? Because that's the stupid and illogical thing to do and it probably wouldn't have gotten me killed.

...pure and innocent as the wind-driven snow...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well done everyone. You were exceedingly entertaining; I was also addicted to the game, despite not playing it.

Fea, if I was a betting man I would have lost a lot of money betting on you being the hairy fiend. :D Congratulations Kuru.

I would greatly appreciate the chance to play in the next game. And I second the suggestion of opening a new thread for it.

[Mithalwen]

I'm still looking for that salute. And Mith, just so you know... if I was a werewolf? I'd have made it obvious I wanted you dead, and then I would have killed you. Why? Because that's the stupid and illogical thing to do and it probably wouldn't have gotten me killed.

...pure and innocent as the wind-driven snow...

You will look for a long time since you still don't understand what I said... the salute was for Bilbo and Oddwen whom I never suspected for a moment IF they turned out to be guilty.... grrrrrrrrrrrr

[Anguirel]

Don't let's get lashed down on questons of idiom! I remember when half of the Downs turned on me for suggesting Galadriel could "cut dead" Saruman. Of course, I meant it in the social sense...

[mormegil]

Ha! I was so right about that. I tried to tell them you didn't dream about Fea, and the reasoning I gave was exactly what you said- because you knew Fea could easily be hung at any time.

If you want to read more of my thoughts about the game we just played, read my latest (May 20th) entry on my Random Thoughts (http://www.freewebs.com/phantombarrowdowns/randomthoughts.htm) page.

Yes Phantom you were spot on in your guess and I was impressed. I just wish that I didn't have to stick my neck out so much. Well played everybody. I really don't think Firefoot has received enough applause on the way she played. Had I not dreamt of her the first night I wouldn't have known or suspected her as the wolf for a long time...and that dream saved Feanor from dying at that time too.

[The Saucepan Man]

I am most disappointed that the Villagers so successfully managed to snatch defeat from the Red Maw of victory, particularly after such a good start. Bit of a blow for those Villagers who chose to risk sacrificing themselves early to gain that good start (*coughmormegil, phantom and yours trulycough*). Clearly, the Werewolves chose the order of their victims well. ;) :p

I must say, though, that the vote for bilbo_baggins was, well, just odd!

As previously indicated, I will be moderating the next Werewolf game. I will start a new thread, but we might as well use this one to sort out the details, rather than cluttering that one up.

I will post the rule changes here when I have a bit more time. Meanwhile, please post here if you would like to participate in the next game. The names I have at present are:

Anguirel
Feanor of the Peredhil
Holbytlas
Eomer of the Rohirrim
Firefoot
Barrow-Wight
the phantom
Fordim Hedgethistle
Encaitare
The Only Real Estel
Ainaserkewen
dancing spawn of ungoliant
Oddwen

Please let me know if I have missed anyone. I have assumed that everyone who participated in the last game will play in the next one unless that have specifically stated otherwise. If you are on the list, but will not be playing in the next game, then please speak up.

We currently have enough to start the next game, but there is still room for more, so post here if you would like to sign up.

I hope to get the new rules up sometime this evening.

[The Only Real Estel]

Well I am sorry but it looks like it would be in the best interest of the downers that are waiting to play the game if I would step out of the second and wait until the third so that I'm not half-concentrating on the second game for half of the game. So I guess this is a 'hat withdrawal'. :)

[Kuruharan]

However after their killing of Bilbo on such thin evidence.....

I must say, though, that the vote for bilbo_baggins was, well, just odd!


Thin evidence my foot! It was possible. At least I had an explanation, unlike somebody who accused me at the very end...;)

*assumes prophetic doom-laden type of voice*

Beware of players who attempt to set themselves up as the village sage! Mithalwen may have been innocent this time around, but I'd be willing to bet my fur-covered tail that somebody will try to do that again... ;)

[mormegil]

And my bet Kuruharan is that if I ever play with you again I will keep both eyes on you as often as I can spare them ;) :p

[Kuruharan]

I'd hope you'd do that to everyone! The odds are I won't be a werewolf the next couple of times I play. :)

[mormegil]

Well of course I will but you are sly and subtle.

[Firefoot]

Thanks, mormegil.

I think I'm going to have to pull out of this one (much as I don't want to). This weekend is bottled up pretty badly, and with next week being the last real week before summer I'm not sure how much time I'll have for this. But count me in for the next game...!

And since I'm not going to be playing, I guess I can now say this: good luck to you werewolves this game! :D Best advice I can give you: don't get dreamt about by the seer. ;)

[The Saucepan Man]

For the main rules, see BW’s first post on this thread. Those rules will apply unless superseded by anything said in this post.

Three new roles are being introduced for this game:

The Cursed Villager: The Cursed Villager does not know that he/she is cursed. If the Cursed Villager is killed by Werewolves, the moderator will announce that nobody was killed. The Cursed Villager then becomes a Werewolf and is introduced to his/her new team mates. Note: whether the Cursed Villager is part of the winning team or not depends upon his/her status at the end of the game.

The Werewolf Hunter: The Hunter will be notified of his/her role at the beginning of the game. If the Hunter is killed by a Werewolf or hanged by Villagers, he/she names one other player before being killed. That player is then automatically killed.

The Guardian: Again, the Guardian will be notified of his/her role at the beginning of the game. Each night, the Guardian names another player. If that player is the Werewolf victim, the victim survives and there is no death that night. The Guardian does not see who the Werewolf or Werewolves is/are.

So, the Village at the beginning of the game will consist of:

3 Werewolves
1 Seer
1 Cursed Villager
1 Hunter
1 Guardian

The remainder will be ordinary Villagers.

I will select the roles randomly.

As mentioned previously, once a vote for a Villager to be lynched has been cast, it may not be retracted. Please use the voting conventions requested by the Barrow-Wight in the previous game, ie:

++ THE BARROW-WIGHT

(although it is not obligatory that you vote for the Barrow-Wight. ;))

In order to enhance the role-play aspects of the game, I would invite every Player to assume the role of a member of the Village community, eg Blacksmith, Farmer, Merchant, Shepherd etc. Please ensure that your role is suitable for a Medaeval/Middle-earth style village. No Astrophysicists or Brain Surgeons please! These “open” roles will not be relevant to players’ secret roles in any way (so being a Butcher does not necessarily point to being a Werewolf). Their sole purpose is to encourage role play by providing players with a “role” to play in the daytime discussions. Feel free to post your chosen “open” role here before the first DAY begins.

Also, feel free to incorporate within your discussions evidence concerning things that you may have seen, heard or done in the village which may be relevant to your deliberations. Those to whom such evidence relates can admit it, deny it or try to offer alternative explanations. The point here is to try and catch out someone by highlighting inconsistencies in their stories. In other words, the discussions should not focus solely on the way that people have voted or tried to plead their innocence in the past. However, no evidence should be put forward which clearly incriminates another player. So, no “I saw Kuruharan change into a Werewolf and murder the phantom last night” please.

Consistent with giving the game more of a “role-play” feel, please do not refer to matters or events outside the game. So no references to it being a “game”. While posting on the game thread, you are a Villager in your chosen “open” role, not a Barrow-Downer. You can talk about friendships, enmities and the like with other Villagers and the personalities of the other Villagers, but they need not necessarily coincide with Barrow-Downs friendships and personalities. And, please, no references to PMs. I would recommend that everyone playing switch to “invisible” mode, so that PM activity cannot be seen. If you do not do so and someone else decides to vote for you because of that (without saying as much, of course), that’s your own fault.

Recurring breaches of these rules may result in an untimely death for the culprit …

Finally, the timing. Each DAY and each NIGHT will last a maximum of 24 hours, but may end earlier, as follows:

DAY will end when a sufficient number of votes have been cast to condemn one Villager. If a clear majority has not been reached within 24 hours of DAY starting, then the person with the most votes at the 24 hour point will be lynched. In the event of a tie, all Villagers tied on the highest number of votes will be lynched.

NIGHT will end when all the night-time activities (Werewolf victim, Seer dream and Guardian’s protected Villager) have been notified by PM to me. If a night-time activity is not notified to me within 24 hours of NIGHT starting, then that activity will not take place that night.

During the DAY, no one should post once either a clear majority has been reached or the 24 hours are up. I will aim to post as soon as the relevant conditions for the end of DAY or NIGHT (as the case may be) have been met. I cannot guarantee to do so straight away though, so please bear with me. As soon as I have posted, the next DAY/NIGHT will start. I will provide the time on which the maximum period for that DAY/NIGHT will end in GMT. Eg:

The first DAY has now started. It will end in 24 hours time (9PM GMT tomorrow), or earlier if a clear majority on voting is reached before then.

OK, we’re more or less ready to start. The game will start at 11PM GMT this evening. That will be the cut-off time for new players, and I will assign roles and send out PMs providing people with their roles. I will then start the new thread and the first NIGHT will commence (probably around 1AM GMT tomorrow).

Everyone clear?

[Son of Númenor]

I'd still like to join, if possible.

(Had trouble converting GMT to EST, so not sure if I've missed the cut-off. :rolleyes: )

[Nimrodel_9]

I'd like to play if it's not too late to join. If not I can wait for the next game. :)

[mormegil]

Here (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/) is a helpful link to figure out time differences. And SpM the changes sound intriguing and fun.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

A quick question: how do we turn invisible? I can't seem to find the option.

EDIT: Edit options, ok. Look harder, Eomer.

[The Saucepan Man]

Thanks for the time zone link, mormegil. You can also work out the next (max) deadline by adding 24 hours to the time appearing next to my post giving the DAY/NIGHT results. As long as you have the time option set to your time zone, the post will be timed for your zone. To set the time option, go to User CP and Edit Options. The select the appropriate Time Zone under Date & Time Options.

This post is timed at approximately 11.15PM GMT. Look at the time appearing next to it for you and check, using mormegil's link, that your time option is set correctly.

(EDIT - set the DST (Daylight Saving Time) Correction Option to automatically detect DST settings.)

A quick question: how do we turn invisible? I can't seem to find the option.Again, go to User CP and Edit Options. Then select Invisible Mode.

The second game has now started.

The players are as follows:

Anguirel
Feanor of the Peredhil
Holbytlas
Eomer of the Rohirrim
The Barrow-Wight
the phantom
Fordim Hedgethistle
Encaitare
Ainaserkewen
dancing spawn of ungoliant
Oddwen
Son of Númenor
Nimrodel_9

The Village comprises:
3 Werewolves
1 Seer
1 Cursed Villager
1 Werewolf Hunter
1 Guardian
6 Ordinary Villagers

I will shortly be sending out PMs to notify players of their secret roles. Once this is done, I will start the new thread and the first NIGHT will commence.

You can post your chosen "open" roles on this thread until the first DAY commences.

EDIT: How appropriate. "Blue Moon" just came on on my I-Tunes Random Shuffle. :D

EDIT 2: I removed The Only Real Estel from the list, as he is sitting this game out.

[Ainaserkewen]

When I set not only my barrowdowns times but my computer clock to GMT I get an hour earlier than what you're showing...am I still good?

[The Saucepan Man]

When I set not only my barrowdowns times but my computer clock to GMT I get an hour earlier than what you're showingBest to set it to your own time zone. Then you will be able to see the time of my post in the time zone applicable to you.

If you want to check it on GMT, make sure to set the DST Correction Option to automatically detect DST settings.

This post is timed at approximately 11.35PM GMT.

[Oddwen]

Very well then...my chosen role shall be....

An Henwife!

What? I used to keep chickens...

(How also appropriate - "Comfortable Liar" just came upon my iTunes...creepy, huh? :smokin: )

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'll be... a... healer. I like that profession.

And just for common knowledge, Monday I will be entirely computerless for the whole day. I'll be out of town on a Physics trip (rollercoasters, anyone?), so don't kill me just for not posting. ;)

[Holbytlass]

I am the old farmer's wife, I sell produce.

[The Saucepan Man]

Secret roles have been despatched. If you didn't get a PM, let me know by PM ASAP.

The first NIGHT will commence shortly.

BW - Seems to me that it might be worth keeping this thread open as a discussion thread (to discuss game mechanics etc not village events).

EDIT: Although I am keen to encourage the role-play elements of the game, this is not an RPG. Beautifully wrought descriptive passages are not expected. Discussion and analysis of the evidence by the village residents - in character - are.

[The Barrow-Wight]

I will play a mason, recently retired from the local baron's service where I designed and built stone structures of all kinds, from high castle towers to underground sewage canals. My hands have been piling rocks for four decades, and I am very strong.

[the phantom]

I'm the owner of the The Phantom Inn.

TP Inn is the place for everyone to come and discuss the previous night's events and make their accusations.

[Oddwen]

Now all we need is the keeper of The Phantom Tollbooth. :p

[Ainaserkewen]

I'll be the Village Innocent. I'll be the young girl, cherub and totally naive and young. Can I be someone's daughter to fit in better?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And here I half expected the phantom's Opera House.

In order to give myself a nice location, I'm moving into a nice little corner room in the Inn. That way my healing skills are centrally located for all the villagers to find.

[the phantom]

I'm moving into a nice little corner room in the Inn
You can stay for free, of course. :)
I'll be the Village Innocent. I'll be the young girl, cherub and totally naive and young.
I would not recommend selecting a role like that. It's likely to get you lynched.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Hip hip huzzah! The (new) game is afoot and I am in it!!

Hope it's not too late to put this in here: I shall be a sheep-shearer in the game. I live in a small hut on the outskirts of the village. I am extremely tall.

[Encaitare]

TP Inn is the place for everyone to come and discuss the previous night's events and make their accusations.

The phrase "TP Inn" makes me giggle to myself in a really immature manner. :p

My role shall be that of the Grumpy Old Lady. Every village needs one.

So, who's going to be the village idiot? :p

Ach... I'm in a rather silly mood tonight.

[the phantom]

Laughing at the The Phantom Inn's abbreviation, TP Inn? That's fine. I admit- the place is a real dump.

*snicker*

[Son of Númenor]

I am the village carpenter. I seldom leave my hut (where I attend to a mother who is not well), and am rather timid by nature; I rarely speak at large gatherings.

[Ainaserkewen]

I would not recommend selecting a role like that. It's likely to get you lynched. I think I'll chance it...it's a role I'm familiar with. Besides, who would lynch lil' ol'me?

[Anguirel]

Since talking swords are a bit exotic, I'll be the next best thing. A Grim Blacksmith, a loner, bearded, who spends most of his time in the forge...by the way, I'm out tonight, so I may be oddly silent...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I am a merchant. I often leave for days at a time and return from some strange foreign land with goods the likes of which ye have ne'er seen before. My very presence in the village sometimes encourages feelings of xenophobia.

I am quite rich.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Whew, a new game begins...Frankly, I'm quite excited! On the spur of the moment and the temporary lack of imagination, I'll be a handicrafts(wo)man. I can make rather...interesting osier baskets if you need any. ;)

[SamwiseGamgee]

If a new game gets started I think I shall be a travelling hermit. I am short and bent, the weight of the years visibly evident upon my old body. My crooked little body is supported by an old gnarled walking stick and my shaggy grey beard has several parts of yesterday's dinner in it. The smell of urine eminating from my person is purely coincidental. I love cheese.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fair warning for everyone, my posting over the next couple days will be sporatic. Today I've got to work from 11:30-4 (EST) and at 6:00 I have to go play photographer for the prom that I'm not even going to. :) Tomorrow I have a humongous project for my college Economics course that I have to start and finish, and then Monday I'll be out of town most of the day. Of course I'll still have time to get suspicious, draw suspicion, and try my hand at lynching werewolves. :cool:
You can stay for free, of course.
Oh good. Our kids from the last game (how many did we have? I'm still in the dark on this one. ;) ) might object if you'd charged me.

I'm a young healer, but very powerful, adept, and quite arrogant. Much like young Anakin, only you know... a healer instead of Jedi, and not nearly as whiney or likely to start (--trails off here, realizing that she was about to give away a really cool new movie scene--). Yeah... so pretty much, I'm me, only I heal stuff.

See y'all later!

[The Saucepan Man]

OK, once everyone has posted their open roles, there should be no discussion of village events on this thread. And let's try to keep it relatively chat free. The purpose of this thread is to discuss game mechanics and let people know when RL committments will limit your posting so as not to arouse suspicion unnecessarily.

One more thing - please could everyone make sure that they keep sufficient space in their PM box for game needs (the PM box limit is 20).

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The role of Werewolf Hunter perhaps raises a couple of questions. He/She names another player to die with him/her. When exactly does the Hunter name that other player? And when does the player die? The same night or the next one, maybe?

And what happens if the Werewolf Hunter picks the Cursed Villager? Which player's special power takes precedence?

[The Saucepan Man]

The Hunter names, and kills, one other player just before he or she dies.

If the Hunter picks the Cursed, the Cursed is dead.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

What if the Hunter casts his/her vote and then cannot make it onto the internet for another 24 hours. Is the Hunter's excecution put on hold until he/she can select the victim, or does the Hunter contact the moderator (from beyond the grave) and select his/her victim?

Only because we will not all be present at the lynching to witness the Hunter cry out his choice from the gallows, though that would be tremendously exciting!

[the phantom]

Our kids from the last game (how many did we have? I'm still in the dark on this one. ;) )
Oh, come on- most people don't forget how many they have until they get to about twelve. We only have three, but we're not about to continue on to twelve, of course. The Inn keeps me quite busy, and the youngest- he's a regular little terror (a perfect clone of me, as you love to say).
but very powerful, adept, and quite arrogant
Ah- perfection. ;)

[Nimrodel_9]

I am a simple farm girl of about 19. I raise sheep and horses. I am not rich, but I get along. My parents are away for a month, and actually trusted me to stay by myself.

[Ainaserkewen]

Hey Nim, I'm the village Innocent, wanna be best friends!?

[The Saucepan Man]

DAY 1 has commenced with a nasty discovery.

The villagers may now discuss their thoughts on who perpetrated the terrible deed.

What if the Hunter casts his/her vote and then cannot make it onto the internet for another 24 hours.The Hunter's victim will die in the same post as his or her own death is announced. This may result in a slight delay as and when it occurs, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Holbytlass]

I remind every player, as Saucepan Man had suggested awhile back, to be in invisible mode.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh, come on- most people don't forget how many they have until they get to about twelve. We only have three, but we're not about to continue on to twelve, of course. The Inn keeps me quite busy, and the youngest- he's a regular little terror (a perfect clone of me, as you love to say).
Ah, so then to add to my character a bit, the phantom and I are married... either that or we just have three kids. Whatever works. Quite frankly, I think that if I've got children (twin girls and a boy, thank you very much) that I need to be happily married. I can only hope that my husband is not a werewolf, because aren't those sorts of things passed on through genetics? How terrible that would be to see my entire family lynched right off the bat.

The phantom and I form our own lovely little mutual admiration society, although we both simply long for the killing of anything evil. So even though we've got the happily in love thing going for us, we'll still have no qualms about killing the other person.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Ooh! Ooh! The mason is Fea and phantom's secret fourth child. They hate him and call him names, while he yearns to one day break up their relationship.


Seriously, let's not lose sight of the game. Can we keep the role playing simple and the fantasies out of it completely? :p If I have to read another virtual gropefest, I might need to start carding at the door.

[mormegil]

I had a question of clarification and it seems good for me to ask, being as I'm not playing at all. Can the guardian protect themselves or must it be another person?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sorry, sorry... just teasing the phantom. I coudn't resist. Blame him... he started it last game.

Now... I do have a question that, although (please don't offend, please don't offend) it may offend people, I feel like asking anyhow.

B-W, as a mod/admin, does that mean you can see things that most members can't? Like who's online even if they're ghosted, stuff like that?

[The Barrow-Wight]

Admins have the ability to see everything, including the information you mentioned. This ability is not automatic, so it would take intentional cheating on my part to access it. Everyone can rest easy knowing that I will never cheat, and I think The Saucepan Man can vouch for me, as he and I have played several games by E-mail that required complete trust in the integrity of the other player.


So, If I hang you, it won't be because I was going through your PMs. It will be because I had Mithadan go through your PMs and report their content to me. :eek: Ha! Just kidding! :smokin:

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh good. After all, I would hate for you (or God forbid, Mithadan) to see my PM plans for taking over the 'Downs per force and... um... oops... probably shouldn't ought to have said that. ;)

[Son of Númenor]

I think my first post in the "Tol-in-Gaurhoth revisited" RPG suffered for being a first-person, past-tense narrative. I think it complicates the RPing too much if other players can see the divergence of what I'm thinking and what I'm saying. From now on, I'll be writing in the style of Fordim's first post: simple and straightforward: everything I write coming from the mouth of Sono the carpenter.

Just thought I'd clear that up here, lest someone else should point out this discrepancy between my first post and future ones.

[Nimrodel_9]

Hey Nim, I'm the village Innocent, wanna be best friends!? I'd love to Aina. :D

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I believe morm that Saucy said the guardian must pick another player to protect.

And yes, I too had considered the scandalous possibilities of constantly using this special power to protect yourself! :D

[The Saucepan Man]

Can the guardian protect themselves or must it be another person?No. Yes.

As I stated earlier, I intended to enhance the role-play aspect of the game rather than turning it into a RPG. So, while short descriptions of what you are doing are OK, try to keep your posts primarily to the discussion at hand. There is no need for he/she said's or quotation marks. Just post what you are saying as you would in a normal post. You can differentiate actions by writing them between *...* if you want. And all players should stay in the vicinity of the others, as all conversations are public and every player should be able to talk to any other(s) at any point. So no going off alone or in small groups.

Remember, there should be no PM'ing between players about the game, except between the Werewolves during the night.

And yes. I can vouch for The Barrow-Wight's integrity. The same, of course, cannot be said for me. That's how I generally manage to beat him in our virtual boardgames. :p ;)

(only kidding, BW ...)

[Ainaserkewen]

Because this is RPG do you think that everybody should turn off their signatures too?

[The Saucepan Man]

As I said, this is not an RPG. It is a game of Werewolf with a role-play element (in the sense that you are posting as a character in the Village rather than as yourself). You are not telling a story, but rather trying to work out who the Werewolves are and lynch them (if you are innocent) or trying to kill off the innocent Villagers (if you are a Werewolf). RPG-style posts are very nice n'all, but they will not necessarily help you achieve your objective.

But, no, you do not need to post without sigs (although you can do so if you would prefer).

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Alas poor Fordim!

Rest in peace, brave sheep-shearer. Your heart was in the right place, but -- alas! -- a heart of gold is of little use when the fearful and the foolish listen only to the honeyed tongue.

May the spirit of the departed hover about the heads of those who sought to preserve him...

...and may the heads of those who killed him be consumed by the wolves.

[Anguirel]

Fordim may have been a bit of a nitwit, but he didn't deserve lynching. I did my best to stay the rope, but too late...

[The Saucepan Man]

Please save your further thoughts on Fordim's unfortunate demise for DAY 2. Unless, of course, you are Fordim. In which case you are dead. :p

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Did the Guardian get to protect a player on the first nite? Because if no-one died on the first nite then the first day would be pretty lame.

[The Saucepan Man]

I am sure that, had no one died, sufficient evidence of Werewolf activity could have been given to work the villagers up into a suitably lynch-happy state.

But that's water under the bridge for this game.

And I suggest that we leave any further questions of this nature until the end of this game (unless they require an immediate answer for the purposes of the game), since they have too much potential to influence its course.

[Mithalwen]

Beware of players who attempt to set themselves up as the village sage! Mithalwen may have been innocent this time around, but I'd be willing to bet my fur-covered tail that somebody will try to do that again... ;)


I never set myself up, I was being myself, unlike the person who set me up.... and played the doddering old buffer.. :D they are the ones to suspect - you were lucky to get the benefit of the doubt when I tried not to be prejudiced by my real life loathing of sycophancy. And I spat my coffee whn you exhorted Oddwen to think about what I would have said if you hadn't killed me!... If anyone had listened to me instead of "Bilbo, oops!, Fea, oops!" it would have been "Fea oops, Kuruharan, Yay!" .... next time will be interesting..... :cool:

[Kuruharan]

And I spat my coffee whn you exhorted Oddwen to think about what I would have said if you hadn't killed me!

Please allow me to say...HEH!! :cool:

If anyone had listened to me instead of "Bilbo, oops!, Fea, oops!" it would have been "Fea oops, Kuruharan, Yay!"

Ahh...overconfident still...good. This is not necessarily so. It might have been "Fea, oops! Hey, Mithalwen was the one who wanted to kill her..."

[bilbo_baggins]

I tell you, that was a fun game, but very annoying when I died.

I wish I could have been faster and joined the game, but whats the point of playing again real soon? Wears out the brain if you ask me... :)

Hope to catch the next steam roller. BTW, thats a nice time config for the new game.

bilbo

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And so passes the pure, innocent, and generally wind-blown-snow-like once again. Surely you are learning from these experiences?

I hope you all know who to look at next, and luck be with ye, for forgiveness is divine.

TP, look after our kids. ;)

~The Dead Healer

[The Saucepan Man]

Please remember that you should not be making any comments which may influence the game once you are dead.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I didn't mean to insinuate that anybody should look at anyone in particular. More that I hope people have more solid suspicions now that the second day is complete.

Although if anybody gets funny ideas, I certainly can't complain.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

And so passes the pure, innocent, and generally wind-blown-snow-like once again. Surely you are learning from these experiences?

Turn about, fair-play and all that... :p ;) :D

[Mithalwen]

And statistically Fea - you are almost certain to be a werewolf next time........ :) lol

I have to say - I am fascinated byt he current game. If I understand correctly with 4 villagers and one were wolf they have to get a wolf to have a hope. If they hang another villager they will be 3-2 but the werewolves nightkill will even the score.However even if they get a werewolf leaving the score 4/1 the remaining werewolf has a chance of bagging the "cursed" villager? and they will be 3/2 again and leave the villagers with no room for error in their lynching. As the saying goes... the villagers have to get it right every time now ..

[The Saucepan Man]

If I understand correctly with 4 villagers and one were wolf they have to get a wolf to have a hope.Not if the Werewolves attack the Hunter and the Hunter chooses one of them as his target. So, all is not completely lost if the Villagers make the wrong choice today. But it would be looking pretty grim ...

[Mithalwen]

Oooooh thanks I had forgotten about the hunter amidst the carnage (something to cheer the Countryside Alliance..) .... even more fascinating possibilities unfold...

Really quite glad I am not playing this one.... maybe even summary execution is better than death by Billy Joel.... although I think some of the attempts to affect rural accents deserve capital punishment alone...

[Anguirel]

Ma bonny wee Scots accent is wi'out flaw...

Sorry...wus wi'out flaw.

[Mithalwen]

but the scores on the doors favour the lupine side rather...

Congratulations to all involved for an entertaining thread but especially to the succesful lycanthropes/ lycanthropists....?

Again?

[Kuruharan]

Congratulations to the newest members of the Victorious Werewolves. Membership fee is 200 florin (payable at the door). For an additional monthly fee of 50 solidi, werewolves will be provided with an endless stream of hapless villagers to feast upon.

Please do stop by the gift shoppe to purchase our lovely "I Just Won Barrow-Downs Werewolf And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt!!!" t-shirt (save now, they are going for only 500 denarii!!!)

Where do we sign up for the next game?

[Son of Númenor]

Let's just do sign-up on this thread.

I, for one, am in.

[Holbytlass]

Great Game!! Even if I was on the losinng side. ;) If ya read SaucepanMan's summary, you'll notice that I never dreamt about Nimrodel9, that is what you call dumb-luck. :D Count me in for the 3rd game, please.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'd like another game too. And may I suggest we discuss the game on the other thread, seeing as how it was specifically designed for the second game. We might as well talk about the ins and outs of it over there. :)

There's a couple of folk who need a good talking to...

[Evisse the Blue]

Great game(s) you guys! Really clever stuff. I finally managed to catch up and read them both. Looks like plenty of fun, time consuming and addictive.
I want to sign myself up for the third game, too, if it's possible. :)

[the phantom]

Save me one of those t-shirts, Kuru. :p

And I suppose I'm in for the next game, unless there are plenty of new people who want to play. After getting to stick around for a decent amount of time in game 1 and making it to the end in game 2, I wouldn't be too offended if I was asked to sit the next one out. Odds are that if I play in the next game I will be bumped off early, anyway.

[The Saucepan Man]

I would like to play in the next game. I suspect that BW is intending to moderate it himself, but if he wants to play again he may be looking for more volunteers to moderate ...

[The Only Real Estel]

This time I think I will be able to play, if there's a spot (and it looks like there is).

[Shelob]

I'm in. My posting might be slightly erratic because I'm still somewhat busy, but I'm free enough to play.

I would just like to note that thanks to the first game here I got my friends to play werewolf in gmail. (And I am proud to announce that we werewolves won the first ever game with a score of Werewolves-3 Villlagers-3...unfortunately I don't think my friends will ever trust me again.)

[The Only Real Estel]

My posting might be slightly erratic because I'm still somewhat busy

I second that. I usually don't get a lot of time on the comp very consistently, so keep that in mind when you're considering my silence to be lynch-worthy. :p

[Ainaserkewen]

It was fun until I couldn't find Internet anymore...

I'll skip this next round, though I'll be back more innocent than ever!

I'm not sure if I like the RPG style of the game. It's really fun just to be yourself and to come up with inane theories as to why someone's guilty. They posted at a particular time, they said this in another thread, I don't like their avatar and the like. It's goofy, but the mods wouldn't go for it I'm sure because we have to keep the game serious...sigh.

I'm so glad I was lynched and not torn to little bits. That's the worst thing, if you get killed randomly.

[the guy who be short]

I'd also like to be in the next game. And please remember I'm British, so the time zones will be a little messed up :p No reason to lynch me...

[The Barrow-Wight]

I won't be around on a regular basis for one to two weeks starting this Friday (3 June), so I can't moderate or play in the next Werewolf game. Are there any volunteers? Please PM if you would like to run the next game, and include any ideas you might have to change it up a bit. Changes are not necessary, but they can be fun.

One change I would like to insist on is this:The moderator is a Villager, and he/she is the one killed the first NIGHT. This is how other sites are playing the game, because it removes gives all players at least one DAY cycle to play. I always disliked that one person was automatically ejected.

[Holbytlass]

ooh, good idea! And seems fair. The moderator can be the village reprobate, that way no one will feel bad about the initial killing! :D

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Really good idea. That had been the only problem with the game, as far as I saw it.

I would volunteer to moderate, only sometimes (and Saucy can vouch for this) I become a little mixed up as regards the rules of the game. ;) :rolleyes:

But that shouldn't be a problem this time, so if no-one else has his/her heart set on it, I'll offer.

(As long as I don't have to be the village reprobate, Holby) :p

What I would consider changing is the 24 hour NIGHT. It always seemed a bit much for my liking. I think I preferred the 12 hour NIGHT in the first game. Thoughts?

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I'd like another shot at the game. And I agree that the 12 hour NIGHT cycle might be a bit better of an idea...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Ok, I've had a think about the times and have come to this conclusion: while the 12 hour NIGHT is far preferable for the players, it can be nightmarish for the moderator. So apologies to Saucy for implying anything; I must now admit that I too would have to use a 24 hour NIGHT. Sorry, Fordim.

I am not convinced I would want to use the Werewolf Hunter in the game. I would also prefer to bring back the option of negating any cast votes- i.e. once a vote is cast, you will be allowed to change it, as in the first game.

And remember I'm just speculating, the powers that be might suspect (with good reason) that I am not trustworthy of moderating. But if no-one else wants to do it then I'd certainly like to.

[The Saucepan Man]

Ok, I've had a think about the times and have come to this conclusion: while the 12 hour NIGHT is far preferable for the players, it can be nightmarish for the moderator.It can also cause difficulties when Werewolves are in completely different time zones, as occured in the recently concluded game. The Werewolves took some time getting their choice of victim to me at first, although it speeded up as the game progressed. Therefore, I think that a 24 hour longstop for NIGHT is preferable, albeit that NIGHT may last a lot less time in practice, particularly in the later stages of the game.

[Holbytlass]

Eomer, I don't have a problem with you moderating, but I'm very curious about the rules you were messing up, or is it some private joke between you and SaucePan Man.

[the guy who be short]

If we'll be playing many games, perhaps a "Werewolf Recruitment" Thread should be created? This same thread could be reused for each recruitment. I say this as I'm slightly confused about where to ask to be in the next game.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Don't worry tgwbs, the different threads might confuse you initially but rest assured that they are both scoured for participants. You are definitely in the next game, sir. :)

Holby, let me explain what I did (confession). When they decided to lynch Nimmy, they did it very quickly, thus making the day very short. I had come onto the internet anticipating a whole day's worth of detective work, and I didn't realise that Saucy had already started a night. Well, I did notice, it's just that it didn't register with me that I couldn't discuss anything on the thread! I promptly posted when I should have been 'sleeping' or, as it happened, being devoured by werewolves (that poor rich merchant). :o

We deleted the posts but that's what I was talking about. And let that be a warning to everyone else: ALWAYS check whether it's day or night!

[Kuruharan]

If I may, does anybody have a potential start date for the next game. It might make a difference to me being able to play. (Potential new job :rolleyes: )

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'm guessing it will start very soon, either Thursday or Friday. And is a new job really better or more important than Werewolf? ;)

[mormegil]

I'd like to play if I may.

[The Saucepan Man]

I am not convinced I would want to use the Werewolf Hunter in the game.Why so Eomer? I thought that the additional secret roles worked very well. Even though neither the Hunter nor the Cursed were identified until the very end, their presence certainly made the Werewolves think about their victims a lot harder than they might otherwise have done. Take a look at the phantom's Random Thoughts page if you don't believe me (link on the Werewolf 2 thread). Also, the secret roles give more players something to do (or at least think about) in addition to simply being a Villager.

I would also prefer to bring back the option of negating any cast votes- i.e. once a vote is cast, you will be allowed to change it, as in the first game.Personally, I don't see what allowing votes to be retracted adds to the game. Players are free to make whatever accusations they want, and as strongly or as subtly as they want, up to the point that they vote. But it is in voting that they nail their colours to the mast, so to speak. The importance of doing so, however, seems to me to be somewhat negated by allowing them then to take it back and vote for someone else. Also, allowing votes to be retracted may encourage hasty voting and thereby stifle the to- and fro- of the discussion, which is the enjoyable part of the game for me. It also makes the moderator's job a lot more difficult ...

Of course, if you are moderating, it's up to you and I'll go along with whatever you decide.

So, will you be moderating the next game, Eomer? If so, and you intend starting tomorrow or Friday, it might be worth posting a list of those who have said that they want to play so far so that people know how many spaces, if any, there are to fill. As I recall, BW suggested that the game should have between 12 and 19 players. It would also be helpful if you could give with a definitive indication of the rule changes, timing etc that you will be applying.

Looking forward to it ...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, if I have your blessing then I'll give it a go. :D BW hasn't confirmed yet but if he has any objections then we'll know before the game starts.

Point noted about the Werewolf Hunter. It does add a dangerous element to all players who want to kill. And because it didn't really get going as such in the last game, we should probably give it another chance to make its mark on the 3rd game.

I am still slightly concerned about it slowing down the game; suppose the Hunter cannot choose a victim until a day after he/she is lynched, but I'm sure I could work around that. I just need a more imaginative death scene.

About the option to retract a vote, my thoughts are thus. I merely want to allow the possibility. I am by no means encouraging hasty votes and would, of course, encourage all players to think long and hard about their votes (obsess over the game like some of us do ;) ) I know this will affect the length of the DAYS: they will last 24 hours whatever happens. But consider an example from the last game: Nimrodel_9 was lynched without being afforded the chance to defend herself. What absolute drama, had she confronted the baying mob and, with a silver tongue, persuaded the villagers to lynch someone else.

So hasty voting with the full intention of retracting the vote later will not be smiled upon, but I think the option adds more realism. It's just good etiquette not to chop and change your vote all the time.

I have been toying with the idea of introducing a new character (a witch) into the village but I haven't really worked out the details. I'll skip that for this game and if I ever come up with a good idea then I'll suggest it to the moderator of Werewolf 4.

As for role-playing, I don't have a problem with it. Everyone can pick a role much like in the last game (although you probably shouldn't be the same character!) and have some fun with it. Everyone should heed Barrow-wight's warning about role-playing getting out of hand. I thought the last game was just fine, just remember to put sleuthing before role-playing.

So Werewolf 3 will be very similar to Werewolf 2 (but maybe the villagers will win for a change!)

DAYS will last 24 hours. NIGHTS will last a maximum of 24 hours, and mabe less if all night-time activities are notified in less time.

I would like to start the game on Friday at 6PM GMT (that's 1PM EST, I believe). Remember you can always check the time I specify with the time of my post, and if I've made a mistake here then please let me know!

Until then, I would like everyone interested in playing to sign up on this thread. I'll post a list of those already signed up in a short while. And please give me your role in this Middle-earth village.

Thanks!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

So far we have:


Kuruharan
Son of Numenor
Holbytlass
Evisse the Blue
the phantom
The Saucepan Man
The Only Real Estel
Shelob
the guy who be short
Fordim Hedgethistle
mormegil

and possibly Saurreg, although I believe you may have issue with the rules? Remember, any suggestions are welcome. If people really hate the role-playing aspect then tell me.

O, and lest I forget, the village will also include a certain Eomer of the Rohirrim. I wonder how long he'll last.....

So that's 13 of us (technically); more can play. We need some more ladies, right?

And we're probably all aware of this by now but remember to make yourself invisible.

Sign up, and let us know your role. I for one will be the village philosopher/layabout, much maligned by you hard-working folk.

[the guy who be short]

I shall be the merry village bard, my best friend my harp. Of course, this isn't enough to make a living, so in my spare time, I sell nutritious carrots.
I am short. :)

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

And I shall be the village Loremaster.

[Shelob]

so We've a bard...and loremaster...and I was planning on being a story-teller....

...I hereby dub our village "Story Land" (too much free time? me?...what gave you that idea?)

[Holbytlass]

I shall be the cobbler, you all need shoes and repairs done 'cause of all that walking around singing and entertaining and gathering of lore. :D

[The Saucepan Man]

I am still slightly concerned about it slowing down the game; suppose the Hunter cannot choose a victim until a day after he/she is lynched, but I'm sure I could work around that.I think the circumstances in which the Hunter could not give you their choice fairly quickly will be limited. It might delay the conclusion of the DAY/NIGHT on which it occurs slightly, but it would only happen the once.

So hasty voting with the full intention of retracting the vote later will not be smiled upon, but I think the option adds more realism. It's just good etiquette not to chop and change your vote all the time.Fair enough.

... but maybe the villagers will win for a change!The pressure is on the Werewolves to make it a hat trick. :D (Ai! I hope that I'm not a Werewolf now ... ;) )

Philosopher, Bard, Loremaster, Story-teller ...

Too many high falutin' types. This Village is more like a '60s commune. It needs decent, honest, hardworking folk. Those useful members of the community who produce the necessities of life. So I shall be ...

... the Village Brewer! A cheery, hearty and friendly sort of fellow, rather wide in girth and red in the nose. Fine Barley Wine and Scrumpy Cider a speciality. :smokin:

EDIT: A word of advice, Eomer. Double check everything that you send and post. It can be very easy to unwittingly give clues in what you say (for example by referring to the Hunter or the Seer as a he or she).

[The Only Real Estel]

posted by Holybtlass:
choosing our death...I'm mean our occupation
I shall be the cobbler, you all need shoes and repairs done 'cause of all that walking around singing and entertaining and gathering of lore.

Hmmm, so this time you'll have your eyes ground out with a pair of your own shoes, eh? :p

I will be a merchant who has fallen upon hard times, unfortunately.

[Saurreg]

Hi, I'm not too fond about the role-playing aspect and will hence sit this one out. Enjoy yourselves. :)

[Oddwen]

If there's another spot open, I'd like to play again. And not die. :p
And I shall be...a gardener/florist. Flower power, and all that groovy stuff.

[Evisse the Blue]

Though not overly fond of the role-playing aspect either (for entirely selfish reasons, that is because I'm not good at it) I am not going to sit this one out, it's too much fun. My only minor concern is with the time zones, I am with those that would like this bit explained one more time.Sorry for being so dense. :p

Anyway, since you guys beat me to all the cool occupations, I'll be a fishmonger. And I'll wheel my wheel barrow, through streets wide and narrow....you know the song. ; ) I'm a friendly and familiar sort of person. How else would I be if I expect people to buy from me? :rolleyes: :D
Looking forward to seeing you all in "Story Land". : )

[Son of Númenor]

I am the bushy-bearded village contractor.

[mormegil]

Our village will need religious leadership and I will be our Cleric. I am tall and trim. Not given to laughter or riotous living. I prefer study to socializing and preaching over much debate. I am caring of the people but have a propensity to be a bit self-righteous.

(I don't feel that I'm great at the role playing aspect but it seems fun though.) If I may make one request I would ask that we not bring up past games. Whether out right refering to it or saying that in another town with my namesake. I think previous games have no bearing on this new game and shouldn't be taken into our councils.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Sorry for the delay. I think Eomer is going to make a great werewolf snack the first NIGHT of the game. Have fun everyone!

[Kuruharan]

But consider an example from the last game: Nimrodel_9 was lynched without being afforded the chance to defend herself. What absolute drama, had she confronted the baying mob and, with a silver tongue, persuaded the villagers to lynch someone else.

I still disagree strongly with this decision. Being in a *cough* position to know :rolleyes:, I promise you that bilbo_baggins almost met exactly the same fate in the first game and it was a tactical decision on my part to spare him. That cannot be counted on to happen again. I believe that it is still too easy for the werewolves to be able to manipulate the hasty voting of people who vote too quickly. (And this as a former werewolf). I like the idea of there being some reason for people to take their time. (Of course, now, against the odds, I'll probably be a werewolf and my own arguments could come back to bite me in the butt... :rolleyes: )

Nimrodel_9 was slightly different too because it was so painfully obvious that she was a werewolf (or at least it seemed painfully obvious since the Seer had not dreamt about her). What was there to say or do differently?

And is a new job really better or more important than Werewolf?

Better? No! Definitely not!

More important? Well...I like to eat once in a while (and buy new video games too...) and werewolf doesn't put food on the table.

Oh...wait a minute... :eek:

I guess I'll be the weird dwarf who drifted into town, took a fancy to Saucepan's beer and moved in. Do you think this role will be a stretch for me?

[Holbytlass]

Very funny, Real Estel...but no fair giving wolves (and moderator) ideas! Otherwise you could fall upon hard things other than just times! :D

Evisse-don't worry about the time zones. When the mod (in this case Eomer) posts the beginning of Day or Night phase just look at the time he posted in the upper left corner of the post. Then you know you have 24 hours from that time to do whatever you need to. Hope that helps. :)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

If participants are more comfortable with unretractable votes then we might as well use that method again. We have plenty of time left before we start so give us some thoughts. It's not a major issue; whatever suits you guys will be used.

I thought I would put it off until 6PM GMT (1PM EST) on Friday to give everyone a fair chance to discuss issues and sign up; and, of course, to build anticipation!

As for the times, I thought I would list GMT and EST in my posts. If there are other times which any participants want to see then just let us know.

Saurreg, honestly, the role-playing aspect is actually very minor. It's very easy to ignore. We'd love to have new players but if you'd rather sit this one out then that's fine.

Saucy, your words of wisdom have been heeded. :D And Oddwen is in.

Another thing: remember that the roles will be assigned randomly. So just because morm and Holby were the previous seers, it does not mean that they are any less likely to be the seer this time.

morm's words are also fair enough. We need to properly distinguish betwixt the games of Werewolf, so nothing is to be said of previous villages or wolves or 'marriages' or lynchings.


So....for now: let's hear your thoughts about the retractable votes. And Evisse, if you could specify your concerns about the times please.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I think that a vote, once cast, should stay cast and not be open to changing -- for the simple reason that allowing vote changes gives the werewolves an advantage insofar as they could vote for each other, then switch if there's a danger of the vote going against one of their number.

[Mithalwen]

I personally prefer the option of retracting a vote ... partly it is more realistic and interesting if there is the possibility of changing people minds ... but of course I would find it very suspicious if votes were changed randomly rather than because of some convincing argument. If you have unretractable votes... someone may vote early becasue they cannot be certain of getting back online and fear punishment for non-participation and then see something has happened that chages their mind - ie a post by someone who might be the seer.... Also there is a tendency to follow the herd once say 3 votes are up... the result seems inevitable so it is waved through.... and so if the 3 wolves are clever they can get someone lynched straight off .... I think the irretractable vote favours the wolves...

[Firefoot]

We need some more ladies, right? Hear, hear! So here I am.

I put off joining for so long because if it started too late I wouldn't be able to finish... Yeah, that wouldn't be good.

I run a local stable.

About the option to retract a vote, my thoughts are thus. I merely want to allow the possibility. I am by no means encouraging hasty votes and would, of course, encourage all players to think long and hard about their votes (obsess over the game like some of us do ) I know this will affect the length of the DAYS: they will last 24 hours whatever happens. But consider an example from the last game: Nimrodel_9 was lynched without being afforded the chance to defend herself. What absolute drama, had she confronted the baying mob and, with a silver tongue, persuaded the villagers to lynch someone else. So, if we used retractable votes, the day would continue even after a majority had been reached? Personally, I don't mind having retractable votes (despite having been lynched under a majority of changed votes... :D ), but I think that once a majority is reached that should be the end of it. It seems to me that once there is a majority people aren't going to be as willing to change their votes, anyway. Maybe that's just me, though. I wouldn't mind using an irretractable vote, either.

[Mithalwen]

Oh I agree that once a majority is reached that should be it ..... because unless you can be online 24/7 it would make it impossible.

[Oddwen]

I would prefer a retractable vote. I'm one of those who are deathly afraid to make hasty destructive decisions... :rolleyes:

Also, I was looking online and found a couple (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekforum.php3?action=viewthread&threadid=29747) of links (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geekforum.php3?action=viewthread&threadid=25408) to some alternate variations within WWf that sounded interesting.

[Son of Númenor]

I would prefer a retractable vote. I'm one of those who are deathly afraid to make hasty destructive decisions... I'm with Fordim on this one. If you're afraid of being too hasty, wait until you are completely comfortable (or almost out of time) until you cast your vote. As Saucepan Man said, you can make accusations as boldly or meekly as you want without having to cast a vote. Voting too early and retracting it may prove a "destructive decision" in the long run, as it could muddy the water, so to speak.

[Holbytlass]

I don't mind either voting way, both have their pros and cons. The reality is that one may be held in suspicion of being a werewolf if one votes too soon, or too late, or not at all, or changes the vote, or keeps the vote, etc.... :p
I do think once a majority vote has been reached then it is final.

[Evisse the Blue]

So....for now: let's hear your thoughts about the retractable votes. And Evisse, if you could specify your concerns about the times please.
No concerns anymore, as Holbytlass explained it to me, thanks Holbytlass. :)

As for retractable votes, I'm for.
I think that someone can very well change their minds after they've heard others' arguments, without it looking suspicious.

[Shelob]

I can understand the argument for changing votes, esp. 'cause it is rather unbelievable that people wouldn't change their votes. But as I see the point of having final votes is so that people can discuss whom to kill without worrying about seeing "++Shelob " or "--Shelob" in the middle of everyone's posts.

If you, instead of casting a vote whenever you change your mind, simply make your current opinion and the reasons for it clear then once you've had a fair chance to read/see as many different views as possible you'll be in a possition to make one well informed* vote rather than ye-many shots in the dark.


*taking into account, of course, the lying and trickery of the werewolves, the subtle attempts at guidance from the seer, and the unsurety of anything/everything.

[the guy who be short]

I'm anti-retractable votes. It is simple enough to consider different points until the final moment without voting each time you change your mind, and I think it would make people consider things more seriously if they only got the on shot at it.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Interesting link Oddwen, though I'm not too keen on introducing any of those new roles. They seem fairly 'samey' anyway, or designed for the card game.

The retractable votes issue is apparently causing a bit of a stir. You seem slightly in favour of 'sticky votes' that you cannot afterwards change. I suppose I'll decide tomorrow which to use. Either way, I don't think either decision should detract too much from the game. But keep posting your thoughts. We still have quite a bit of time.

Firefoot is in.

Saucy - a question about the Werewolf Hunter (yeah, another one :rolleyes: ). If it comes down to the Hunter and one werewolf, who wins? I can see a case for both individuals. How would you settle this?

Another thought: how many participants would be required to demand four werewolves? Because we might still ensnare more players.

[the phantom]

how many participants would be required to demand four werewolves?
If we end up with 16 or 17 you could probably add another wolf. Or, you could add another role, such as a cobbler- one of my favorite roles.

cobbler His job sucks so bad, he wants to die. The cobbler is on the werewolves team, but is not a werewolf! He doesnt know who the werewolves are, they dont know who he is. The game does not end in a situation where #(werewolves+ cobbler) >= #villagers. The cobbler looks like a villager to the seer. The cobbler is very interesting in that he actually doesnt mind being lynched in many cases, to protect a werewolf from dying. He can also create situations late in the game where he can form a voting block with the remaining werewolf and then block any lunchings from occurring. You can even have cases where the werewolf is trying to convince the cobbler that he is in fact a wolf, or that someone might fake being a cobbler to rat out who the wolf is, so they can then say they arent really a cobbler and lynch them!
Obviously, the cobbler is a strong addition to the werewolf team. I think its a great role for situations where having one more werewolf would be too strong, but without it the werewolves are screwed.

Or you could add a wolf and a cobbler and then add masons to help the village. The people that I play Mafia with often include masons and it really adds a lot to the game.

Masons Two of the villagers are Masons (members of the secret society). Since they are together at night, they know each other are not werewolves. This adds to the game in several ways. It increases the number of people who have information, and thus makes the initial lynchings less random. It also makes two groups of people who will 'defend' each other: the werewolves and the masons.

I wouldn't mind seeing a cobbler and a couple of masons added to the mix the next game.

[mormegil]

If it comes down to the Hunter and one werewolf, who wins? I can see a case for both individuals. How would you settle this?

I know it wasn't directed to me but in this unlikely event I would say that they kill each other off and the town is left desolate.

As for the voting...I slightly favor non-retractable voting but I am fine either way.

To add the other roles such as cobbler or masons I would think that we would need more than 12. I know that's what you were saying phantom but I just wanted to add my bit about it too. It sounds okay I'm not enamoured with the idea but I guess I would need to see it played first to make up my mind.

[Holbytlass]

Whoa...seeing as I chose to be a village cobbler, I'm not saying I am a 'cobbler' (never heard of that secret-role till now) cause, well, I DON"T WANT TO DIE!! :D

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Hi, just wondering if I could join in! I've played this game in person before (though then it was called "Mafia" and it didn't involve much roleplaying), but never online...so I'm new at this!

If I can play, I'd like to be...a young village girl, I picture her to be someone who has just grown old enough to move out on her own, so 18ish. She could have a fruit/vegetable garden and sell fruits and veggies in a farm-stand-like operation or from a basket during the daytime hours....if that's all right.

If there's a problem with my character/occupation, or if it's too late for me to join in, please let me know!

[The Saucepan Man]

On the question of voting, the majority seem to be in favour of non-retractable votes. That's certainly the camp that I am in. It just seems to me that, if you want to make it clear who you are intending to vote for, but want to reserve the right to change your mind, you can do so without actually casting a vote at that stage. Indecisiveness, therefore, should not be an argument for having retractable votes. The arguments on which team it favours go both ways, although I find Kuru's point that it is more likely to favour the Werewolves more rather compelling. So, the only real justification for having retractable voting that I have seen is Mithalwen's point that some players may have to log-off before the DAY's discussion has really got underway and may be concerned that they will not have a chance to vote later, once more evidence has come out.

On balance, I remain against retractable votes. But, if they are to be allowed, then I think Eomer's idea that the retraction of votes should be discouraged and done only rarely, such as in the circumstances that Mith contemplates, is a good one. Also, once a clear majority is reached, that should most definately be a cut-off point. Really, though, allowing them at all risks them being used willy-nilly (so to speak).

Saucy - a question about the Werewolf Hunter (yeah, another one). If it comes down to the Hunter and one werewolf, who wins? I can see a case for both individuals. How would you settle this?That would never happen though, since the Werewolves win as soon as their number equals that of the Villagers. So, as soon as the last Villager before the Hunter gets killed off, the Werewolves win.

I have a question, though. Clearly, there is little sense in having the Guardian active during the first NIGHT since he cannot protect the moderator from being killed. But are you proposing that the Seer gets to dream of another Villager on the first NIGHT? I can see arguments both ways. Although it would slightly disadvantage the Werewolves, it would also make the first DAY's discussion slightly less random.

On numbers, I think that (with Azaelia and Firefoot) we have about 13 or 14 players. My understanding from what BW said is that the game should have no more than 19 players. I presume that more than that would tip the game in favour of the Villagers unless an additional Werewolf is added. Also, any more than 19 players and the game will get too long, so I think that should be the cut-off point for players and that we should stick with 3 Werewolves.

Like mormegil, I am not over-keen on the additional roles that the phantom suggests, not for the time being anyway. Since most of us are still pretty new to the game, I think that we should keep it relatively simple for now. More roles would be likely to over-complicate things, at least for my poor simple mind. Perhaps they could be introduced once more of us have got a few more games under our belts.

[Holbytlass]

I don't believe it is too late to join. Eomer will be the judge of that. However, it's great to have freshmeat! :D Your persona sounds fine, just don't say you're the 'innocent'. ;)

[mormegil]

I have a question, though. Clearly, there is little sense in having the Guardian active during the first NIGHT since he cannot protect the moderator from being killed. But are you proposing that the Seer gets to dream of another Villager on the first NIGHT? I can see arguments both ways. Although it would slightly disadvantage the Werewolves, it would also make the first DAY's discussion slightly less random.

I would argue that the seer should be allowed to dream the first night. Two reasons mainly, the first being as SpM stated that perhaps it will give some direction to the first day's debate. Secondly, it's pathetically obvious that the villagers need all of the help we can get. Plus it's not easy to be the seer. So Eomer if you're looking for votes on that mine is yea.


Edit: just to pound in the point I think it important for all those who are playing to be on invisible mode for the duration of their game. I am currently on in and will stay so until I am done with the game. Whether innocent or guilty I think it important for all to do this, as has been previously stated.

[the phantom]

I think that we should keep it relatively simple for now. More roles would be likely to over-complicate things, at least for my poor simple mind. Perhaps they could be introduced once more of us have got a few more games under our belts.
But Mr. Saucepan, the entire point of this game is to make everyone thoroughly unsure of every little move they make and to cause people to over-analyze every tiny thing the other players do until they can't even think straight and aren't able to sleep at night and start being paranoid about things in real life.

Ah yes- complete confusion and utter paranoia are the ultimate goals of this game, therefore to "over-complicate things" is exactly what we need.

Wouldn't you agree?

[the guy who be short]

Please, spare me the terrible paranoia!
I'm also opposed to the new roles at the moment, simply because I'm playing and it will make it easier for me. After that, do what you will, I'll just be watching and laughing at your poor victims, Phantom.

She could have a fruit/vegetable garden and sell fruits and veggies in a farm-stand-like operation or from a basket during the daytime hours....
But not carrots. :p

Edit: I'd like to add, my character has a habit of speaking in Old English. Old Westron. You know, old speak.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Azaelia is in.

I am not too fond of the cobbler role (not Holby you understand, I am fond of her :D ), not least because it confuses me. The masons I am quite intrigued by, but I'm not going to add them to this game. Especially because the current format (even the original format) of Barrow-Downs Werewolf is still so fresh to me and many other participants. So this game is going to be pretty much the same as the last one, only with more players.

The majority have spoken (not that I'm a particular fan of democracy or anything) thus we will be using non-retractable - that is sticky - votes which you cannot afterwards change.

So once a majority has been reached that person will be lynched. However, there will not be a ban on posting after the majority has been reached and before I arrive to put the grim tale into words. If someone wants to offer some thoughts before the lynching then they may do so. Of course, in such situations there may not be much else to say, but the doomed individual can offer some further accusations if he/she so wishes to, before being put to death. Vent your spleen if you wish!

It occured to me that the GMT we post is actually GMT +1 (British Summertime) but don't let that confuse anyone (if I am wrong about that then you'll know it has confused me :rolleyes: ). When I post GMT it just means the time in the UK.

Estel let me know that GMT is 6 hours ahead of him. What are the time zones like in the USA? Is there a central time behind EST? Let me know and I'll use it in my posts, and any other time zones you want me to specify.

Registration for this game ends at 4PM GMT today (11AM EST). I will notify all players of their roles shortly after this, and then open the thread for Werewolf 3. The game is to be played solely on that thread.

The first DAY will begin at around 6PM GMT (1PM EST). So I'll maybe see you in the morning....


*Remember that you can usually ask questions about the game on this thread. If there's anything else then don't hesitate to ask or let me know.*

[Celuien]

I wish I could play in this game, but my schedule is going to be somewhat erratic for the next two weeks so I can't. Please put me down for the first round after June 18, if there's one planned. :D

[The Saucepan Man]

Ah yes- complete confusion and utter paranoia are the ultimate goals of this game, therefore to "over-complicate things" is exactly what we need.I don't disagree. But there are more than sufficient ingredients for confusion and paranoia for my tastes for the time being. After all, I have only actually played one full day so far ...

[Oddwen]

Two gardeners in the same village, eh Zali? Er, hmm...must be some friendly competition there? ;)

I probably won't be able to be online at all on Sundays, so don't judge me because of that.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well Oddwen, if you do have a special role then be alert on Saturday nite, yes? :)

To note, anyone who has made allusions to probable erratic internet hours will not automatically be given an ordinary villager role. So don't make any accusations based on that. And if one werewolf doesn't show up then remember that the other two will have to decide on their own.

Saucy, on one of the links Oddwen provided, someone said that if it comes down to the Werewolf Hunter and a werewolf, then the Hunter does get to make his allowed kill, and thus wins. This does go against the equal numbers proposition that is so basic to the game. I will stick with that basic proposition; so the Hunter does not necessarily get to kill.

And remember, because I'm not sure anyone has mentioned this yet, make yourself invisible. :D

Getting closer.....

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Another thing: make sure there's space in your PM box. If it is full and I cannot contact you then you may not be able to play. If you realise this after the DAY has started then there may still be time. PM me to make sure, but it is likely that you won't be able to play.


Edit to add: the phantom is, of course, welcome to choose any role he likes. How about town crier? That seems like a giggle...If you already chose one and I missed it then sorry.

[the guy who be short]

Two gardeners in the same village, eh Zali? Er, hmm...must be some friendly competition there?

Buy my carrots! They're more poetic!

I should also add I'm in the middle of a few exams, so I might also be on fairly erratically. I should, however, have enough spare time for this to not matter.
Stop looking at me like that! I revise lots! I just deserve some leisure time too...

[The Saucepan Man]

And remember, because I'm not sure anyone has mentioned this yet, make yourself invisible. I can still see Firefoot ... :p ;)

Don't forget to make yoursefl invisible too, Eomer, if you haven't done so already.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I figured the game would start with a DAY.

It is only after the villagers stumble upon a grisly surprise that the seer will have reason to dream of his/her fellows.

[Firefoot]

I can still see Firefoot ... :p ;) I was getting there. :smokin:

[the guy who be short]

Now I know what the people used to the game mean about staying awake at night! I spent most of last night trying to gather my thoughts. Plus I stayed debating until 12pm.

I would also add that Werewolf helped me in my maths revision and finally let me get my head around some very difficult notions.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I don't quite follow the shortlist idea proposed in the game. Anyway, I'm not going to offer one. If the players want to come up with a shortlist then, by all means, do it if you want. There seems to be quite a lot of scepticism about its merits amongst villagers regardless.

[The Only Real Estel]

Just wanted to post to say that I will most likely be unable to post at all on the 'Werewolf 3' thread on this coming Sunday. Please don't hang me on the evidence of me not talking. :D

[the guy who be short]

Worry not. Most of Sunday should be night-time anyway.

[elronds_daughter]

Is it too late to join in? Oh, I do hope not.......

[mormegil]

I would think so for this game we've already received our roles and we have begun play.

[the guy who be short]

I would like to ask some questions about The Guardian and The Werewolf Hunter roles.

How do Guardian scenes work? Does DAY appear, and the villagers are told nobody is killed? Or is there an exciting cut-scene in which the Mod describes how player X was walking along at night when lots of werewolves jumped out at him, and suddenly the Guardian (masked and robed of course...) leaps out and scares them away?

Similarly, how do Hunter scenes work (when the Hunter is killed by werewolves)? Is nothing revealed until DAY, when the scenes of the previous NIGHT's struggle are revealed? Or is there a cut-scene, describing what goes on?

If I understand correctly, the Hunter still gets a shot if he is lynched by villagers. This would obviously be described at the end of DAY.

What if the Hunter is killed by werewolves, but chooses to shoot a villager as his parting shot? How would that work? Is there a cut scene in which he cunningly escapes wolves, rushes to the suspected villager's home, shoots them through the back, and then gets leapt on by the wolves?

It's just something I've been pondering. Hey, it's a lot more interesting than GCSE Geography.

[The Saucepan Man]

How do Guardian scenes work? Does DAY appear, and the villagers are told nobody is killed? Or is there an exciting cut-scene in which the Mod describes how player X was walking along at night when lots of werewolves jumped out at him, and suddenly the Guardian (masked and robed of course...) leaps out and scares them away?No - the Villagers are just told that no one died (which could also mean either that the Cursed Villager was chosen by the Werewolves or that the Werewolves were too slow in notifying the moderator of their choice).

Similarly, how do Hunter scenes work (when the Hunter is killed by werewolves)? Is nothing revealed until DAY, when the scenes of the previous NIGHT's struggle are revealed? Or is there a cut-scene, describing what goes on?The next DAY, the Villagers find the body of the Hunter and the person that the Hunter chose to kill. If the Hunter's victim is an innocent Villager, it is up to the moderator to decide how this happened.

If I understand correctly, the Hunter still gets a shot if he is lynched by villagers. This would obviously be described at the end of DAY.Yes.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I'll need to get my thinking cap on to come up with a way for the Hunter to be killed by werewolves AND find time during this assault to kill an innocent and sleeping villager. :p Rest assured, it will be complicated.

As for that other situation mentioned, I had thought this might be the way to go if the werewolves do attack the Cursed villager. I have come up with a 'chilling' scene, but it would involve the other players knowing about it. This is because I have already begun mentioning the SCORE at the end of every kill.

Werewolves: 3
Villagers: 11

....or whatever. And I'd hate to lie, and post something (that there are only 3 werewolves) which the villagers might believe but which is actually false.

So if the Cursed villager is attacked, the other players will know about it.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Hi, all! I just wanted to apologize for my absence in the game...I had a very, very busy weekend, as in having to take the SAT's, which basically ate my day yesterday. So, I'm sorry, all!

[the guy who be short]

Thanks to Eomer and Saucy for clearing up my questions. I have one more for you though. :p

Can anybody at all be the Moderator? If there are no specific qualifications I need, I would love to Mod a game sometime in the Summer.

Also, I was going to post this poem today. Due to my unfortunate second demise, I'll just post it here today (or it'll go to waste, poor thing).

Fools! Oh woe! The Fishmonger is slain!
A devilry conceived of our own misguided hands
And unguided now we shall remain
Grief lies heavy upon Storyland
No Wisdom to share, no Eyes to See
Alas for Evisse, unjustly killed
The wolves rejoice in their unhappy glee
Rest in peace, and know vengeance shall be fulfilled.

I also never got round to showing you all the Memorial Carrots. Here they are:

[mormegil]

Enjoyed the poem(s) and the memorial carrots :D

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Brilliant. Storyland will be a much poorer place without you!

And yes, anyone can come in off the street and do this. How do you think I got the job?

[The Saucepan Man]

NB: Nothing in this post should be read as implying anything in the current game. It is simply how I had decided to deal with the situation when I moderated the last game.

As for that other situation mentioned, I had thought this might be the way to go if the werewolves do attack the Cursed villager. I have come up with a 'chilling' scene, but it would involve the other players knowing about it. This is because I have already begun mentioning the SCORE at the end of every kill.

Eomer, I thought that it would be rather more interesting if the Villagers do not know whether the Guardian has been successful or the Werewolves have attacked the Cursed Villager, in the event that no one dies during the NIGHT.

To account for this, I was going to post (after a NIGHT with no deaths):

Werewolves: 3?
Villagers: 11?

This would imply that either the Guardian had been successful and the score was correctly stated or the Cursed Villager had become a Werewolf, in which case the true score would be:

Werewolves: 4
Villagers: 10

That's the way that I had decided to handle it, but it's up to you how you deal with it in this game.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It's certainly an option, but how do the villagers know that there are 3 werewolves to start with anyway?

Or should we just ignore this little bit and remind ourselves that it's only a game? We'll see what happens....

And am I right in thinking that the Guardian's power extends only to assaults by werewolves, and thus does not protect the 'protected' player against any attack by the Hunter?

[Evisse the Blue]

Thanks for the dirge and the carrot, TGWBS. :D So sorry to hear you met an equally tragic fate.
Good luck on the game, everyone. Needless to say I'll be following it closely in my newly aquired ghostly form. :p

[The Saucepan Man]

It's certainly an option, but how do the villagers know that there are 3 werewolves to start with anyway?Er - because that's what the score says ... :p

And am I right in thinking that the Guardian's power extends only to assaults by werewolves, and thus does not protect the 'protected' player against any attack by the Hunter?Up to you.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Maybe I should have added a bit to Eomer of the Rohirrim's murder along the lines of : And the werewolves did leave a written contract stating that they were, indeed, three in number.

Needless bureaucracy, you say? Um....what if the contract was written in Eomer's blood? :eek:

That actually gives me an idea...

[Holbytlass]

I know TGWBS is dead, but would it be allright if he still did memorial carrots for the rest of us who meet an early demise? If you're willing, TGWBS, they were great.

[the guy who be short]

Maybe I should have added a bit to Eomer of the Rohirrim's murder along the lines of : And the werewolves did leave a written contract stating that they were, indeed, three in number.

Needless bureaucracy, you say? Um....what if the contract was written in Eomer's blood?

That actually gives me an idea...

:D Eomer - I love this game so much, I've got lots of my friends interested. We're starting our own game with me as the Mod, and I had the same idea as you! How wonderful.

Holbytlass - I shall indeed be glad to continue carrots. Werewolf intervention is no reason for good carrots, or good potential carrots, to go to waste.
I'm happy you liked them. :)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I hope the games are entertaining. :)

Isn't it spectacular that the third game already has more posts than the entire second game (even at the stage when there were only 3 deaths)?

Wow.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

It is rather entertaining -- not to mention dangerously addictive. As the deadline was approaching this morning, I was hunkered in my office, ignoring the knock at my door, and calling out that I would get to my next appointment "in a few minutes..."

Pretty high tension really *heaves a sigh of relief that he survived another day; hopes to survive the night*...

[Anguirel]

I'm suffering withdrawal symptoms already. I know it's early, but I'd like to grab a place in the next game...

[mormegil]

I find it fascinating how different a dynamic exist in every game. I agree with Fordim. I was sitting at my desk just refreshing the screen like mad hoping to see something new pop up.

[The Saucepan Man]

I agree with Fordim. I was sitting at my desk just refreshing the screen like mad hoping to see something new pop up.Ditto. :D

The Village certainly seems a lot more talkative this time round. I assume that this is down to the players, although then again it could just be the better quality of moderation ... :rolleyes: ;)

[Shelob]

I know the feeling...I spent an edgy day in school...

...I may or may not want a place in the next game, but I do have a suggestion for actual play that you guys might enjoy debating about/adapting for use here...

My friends have picked up the habit of playing werewolf in gmail since I enjoyed the first game here so much (well, reading the first game...). However since we've a rather smaller group of people to recruit players from it's hard for us to get to even 12 players and it quickly becomes boring because it's too easy for the werewolves. To make things more interesting we decided to add some special parts besides "werewolf" and "seer", I mentioned the three here ("hunter", "guardian", "cursed") and while the hunter was immediately voted down (we didn't want to kill more people than absoloutly necessary) everyoen liked the concept of having a guardian and/or a cursed villager. The biggest problem that everyone could see was that with an average of 10 players adding two new parts would make the game "too busy", so we're only adding one...the key being that nobody but the moderator (and, if we have one, the guardian) know which role is being used.

What we're doing is assigning roles such that when the moderator pulls roles out of a hat (I have very traditional friends) there are
2 cards that say "Werewolf"
1 card that says "Seer"
6 cards that say "Villager"
1 card that says "Cursed=heads, Guardian=tails"

so say the "cursed/guardian" card was pulled for me, our moderator would then flip a coin and if it was 'heads' I would be told I was a villager and would only learn elsewise if the werewolves killed me, if it was 'tails' I would be told I was the guardian and play accordingly.

The beauty of this is that the players can't figure out of they're trying to keep the wolves from a cursed villager or their guardian until it's too late...this keeps special stratagies based on the knowledge of both the guardian/cursed player's existance from being used and adds another element of mystery and confusion to the game...

Since here there isn't the same problem of getting enough players this may not be feasible with only three extra roles, but I figured that since our games are learning from your ideas I would share our ideas with you.

[the phantom]

Hey, I have an idea.

How about allowing villagers to write one "letter" per game.

In other words, on a night that a villager is scared of being slain, that villager can pm the game moderator with a "letter" addressed to the townspeople sharing his final thoughts and wishing them well.

Now, if you send the mod a letter and you are not killed you cannot ever send a letter again. You only get one chance.

If you are killed the night you write your letter, the mod posts it the next day. The mod would say something like-

As the villagers stared at Eomer's lifeless body, Kuru noticed a piece of paper beneath his arm.

"Look!" cried Kuru as he picked it up, "It's a letter addressed to us. It reads..."

That way, if the seer was particularly worried about getting killed that night, he could write in his letter "I dreamed of so-and-so and she was a werewolf." That way we could get some guidance.

But if the seer wrote the letter on night 2 and was not killed, and then got killed on night 3, there would be no letter since the seer already used up his one letter.

Do you follow? Think it sounds like a cool idea?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think it sounds like a fabulous idea, tp, and I'm not just saying that because you said it. ;) It would be sort of like what some military personnel do before dangerous missions... write a final letter to be forwarded in case they don't come back. Would werewolves be included in the letter writing? In case of a lynching of an actual beast (boy are we bad at that ;)) would a letter be found on them sending people in all kinds of wrong directions?

Picture last game, and say that the phantom was to get lynched first. A letter is found just before they throw his corpse into a graceless heap on the edge of the woods, and it reads something like this:

If I had only had the time to tell Fordim who should die...

And nobody is aware that Fordim is innocent. It would add yet another layer for the players to unravel.

[mormegil]

In the case of lynching often times the person being lynched has the opportunity to say something. Evisse said something like "well some of you will be crying at least"

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

It's true morm. In the first game, each time I was first on the list to be lynched (and those times occured often), I managed to sneak in words of wisdom. Even in the second game when I died so soon, I still got in a few words. But I still like the letter idea. It may just be because I like letters. ;)

[mormegil]

I thought phantom's idea was to be able to write a letter the night you think you will die which seems like a decent idea, I guess the next Mod could consider that, but I'm not sure that writing a letter the day you'll be lynched makes sense. Mainly because you know that you are going to be lynched. I know that in the first game we weren't suppose to say anything after the majority voted but that has changed at least in the 3rd game.

[the phantom]

but I'm not sure that writing a letter the day you'll be lynched makes sense
I wasn't meaning to suggest a lynching letter. The letter writing thing is a night-only occurance (for people who are slain, not people who are lynched, therefore the wolves would not ever have the opportunity to write one).

But Fea's idea for a wolf-written letter could be quite funny.

For right now, though, I'd only go with night-letters from innocents.

[the guy who be short]

This is freaky. :eek:

I've said that I Mod my own game on some different forums, and that I had the same ideas as Eomer. Now, independantly, a friend and I have come up with an idea very similar to the phantom's.

We only had one player, called the Scribe. When he dies, a note he haswritten is revealed. The note is only allowed to have one point. For example, the simplest note would be something like:
"I think tgwbs is a wolf."
A more thoughtful response:
"tgwbs is inconsistent in his posts 14 and 23. I am suspicious..."

In short, it is a scrap from a diary. It just allows the dead Scribe to air one thought after death, to get the villagers thinking.

I know that I would have liked to do this in Werewolf 3, which is partly where the idea stemmed from.

[mormegil]

Well I can see the downside to giving people that opportunity. It allows people not to voice their concerns as openly as maybe they ought to. I understand that it's a one shot deal and if implemented I think it would need to stay that way.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I think there should be a Medium amongst the villagers; someone who could communicate (via PM) with those who have been slaughtered by the wolves. Perhaps the Medium (who, like the seer would be hidden) could choose one dearly departed each night and ask that person a question then that now dead gamer could answer the question (all through the mod of course).

[Kuruharan]

We don't want to get carried away though. The mod is only one person and can only do so much. The more people the mod is having to feed information to and from complicates the process and makes it harder to get things done.

[the phantom]

I just thought I'd mention that I'm liking the pacing of the current game. People are chatting and stirring things up for a while before the voting really starts. I really like this, because that means that even if Eomer starts the new day right as I'm going to bed, when I wake up and check the thread no votes have been cast yet, so I get the opportunity to blab a bit before the vote every day.

[Kuruharan]

See, those irrevocable votes are really working out well.

[mormegil]

See, those irrevocable votes are really working out well.

Agreed!

However I realize why we do it but I wish that night were a bit quicker. I can't stand it, waiting daily to see what happened over night. :D

[the guy who be short]

I find NIGHT a welcome relief from being glued to my screen. :D
I too sit and frantically keep pressing refresh during the DAY, waiting for any new news.

[Holbytlass]

I, too, welcome night if for no other reason than everyone has to stop posting and I might get a chance to catch up! :D Not that I've made a whole lot of head way. :p
I also drive myself crazy because it is nearing the night's end and maybe night people have done things quickly and Eomer has already posted. Oh the suspence of who gets it at night is awful!!
I like your sig TGWBS; in other words, ignorance is bliss!!

[The Saucepan Man]

I would remind everyone to be extremely careful what they say on this thread while they are currently playing in a game. It is very easy to say things which may (rightly or wrongly) be picked up by others as hints.

Not that I think that this has happened yet. Just putting down a marker.

[Kuruharan]

Speaking of threads, I'm kind of in favor of somebody "official" starting a new thread with the first post listing all the currently applicable rules and updating that post when the rules are changed. That would make it simple to find what rules we are operating under. That could become the official rules thread. I think discussion in such a thread should probably be restricted to proposed rules changes and not idle banter regarding the game.

This thread at the moment has both (as well as a concluded game)...

[the phantom]

So, Eomer, you aren't going to post the new score, just say 8 to 3 with a question mark?

If you don't give the real score, you could have a situation where the villagers think they have two chances to lynch when they really only have one. Not to mention it is just nice to know whether or not there is another wolf around so you can keep your eye out for it.

Not posting the score seems to favor the wolves, and the wolves have already won two games and seem well on their way towards winning the current game. It's the village that needs help. Unless there is a great reason not to, post the real score. If there's another wolf, the narrator could simply say something like- One villager pointed out werewolf tracks down by the river, but this time, instead of finding three sets of tracks, the villagers found four! The situation had suddenly become more perilous.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But you see phantom, you should have argued that point when we were debating the merits of the choices with Saucepan Man a few days ago. It is a good observation on your part.

I had thought of a much creepier way for a fourth wolf to be introduced...

However, I am taking a rather cruel pleasure in watching the struggle and misery of the villagers. I'm afraid you'll just have to deal with the pain. :p

And the mystery will now last until the end of this game.

[the phantom]

However, I am taking a rather cruel pleasure in watching the struggle and misery of the villagers.
Well, that does it! You don't get to mod any more games, young man! :p

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The game needs a strict level of difficulty for the villagers; that's the whole fun of it, no?

[the guy who be short]

I agree whole-heartedly with Eomer.

Watching villagers squirm and wolves "herd" is a wonderful experience. :D

[The Saucepan Man]

I think that we are going to have to place a prohibition on active players posting on this forum, except on purely administrative matters. There is just too much risk that any comments made will influence the game in progress (whether intentionally or not).

[Son of Númenor]

From the rules (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=388268&postcount=1):

If no majority is reached as a result of more than two players accumulating votes, then a runoff is held and the two highest vote-getters are on the block. Anyone who didn't vote for them originally must now choose between the two of them to determine which person will be lynched. If there still isn't a majority by then, a tiebreaker is used. One of the players at risk places a dagger in one of two boxes, and the other player chooses one of those boxes to open. If the box with the dagger is opened, that player is killed.

[mormegil]

I think that we are going to have to place a prohibition on active players posting on this forum, except on purely administrative matters. There is just too much risk that any comments made will influence the game in progress (whether intentionally or not).

I see your point and agree. I will adhere to a voluntary prohibition starting after this post of course.

[Lalaith]

I have been following these games with almost childlike glee.
I have a query on gameplay - if a cursed villager has become a werewolf, and is then lynched by the others, is it exactly the same, in terms of result, as if they had lynched a villager who was originally a werewolf at start of play?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yes Lalaith.

Sono, I believe that rule was superseded in Saucepan Man's rules.

[Lalaith]

Thanks. So if a cursed villager is lynched, would the post-mortem announce exactly what he was, ie cursed and transformed?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Not everything is revealed during the game; some things are revealed only afterwards.

[Lalaith]

Thank you Eomer. Those of us who are just following the game are also speculating as to the outcome!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It seems I have caused confusion in my previous posts, and for this I apologise. What seems so clear in my head obviously does not necessarily translate into my posts, so I must clear this up.


If the Cursed Villager has become a werewolf, and is then lynched by the villagers, then the villagers will know that they have killed a werewolf. All I was trying to point out was that the villagers will not know whether that werewolf was an original or Cursed.


For example: if Eomer of the Rohirrim is a cursed villager turned werewolf and is lynched, then the villagers will know that they have killed a werewolf.

However: they will not know that he was Cursed.

They would have to kill the others or wait until the end of the game to find out who the Cursed villager was. It's only this really minor aspect of the game I was focusing on.

Nothing to worry about! ;)


In no way am I suggesting that the lynchings are confusing.


For example: if the innocent Feanor of the Peredhil is lynched (which doesn't seem so far-fetched), she is found to be innocent as soon as she is dead. So don't worry: anyone killed after a lynching stays dead; there are no ghosts floating about the village!


I hope that clears up any worries.

[Lalaith]

Thanks for that further elucidation. That makes for a very interesting game, that the villagers never know if they are dealing with 3 or 4 werewolves until the very end.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I like the idea of the villagers being completely in the dark on the number of werewolves. They need rousing every so often, what with the growing idea that simplicity should be foremost in thinking during the games. "Hey, Eomer of the Rohirrim just confused me... let's lynch him! But first... we'll get out the largest scales and see if he floats in the same water as lead and very small rocks." :p

[The Saucepan Man]

Note to self: If you are an innocent Villager, don't shoot yourself in the foot on Day 1 by agitating for the lynching of the person who turns out to be the Seer ...

What a stressful game! But immensely enjoyable.

Good luck fellow innocents. You'll need it!

:D

[littlemanpoet]

Help! I wanna follow along and have only started reading now, and can't find the current actual game. Can someone help me?