Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Lhunardawen]

And keeping one of daga's familial connotations in mind, it was completely appropriate. :D

[The Saucepan Man]

There is an increasing tendency for players to post on this thread simply to tell people when, during the Day, they will be on-line and when they will be voting. I am not so sure that this is a good thing, as it clutters up the thread and should not really be necessary. If there are time zone issues then, if people are not already aware, these can be made clear before the game starts.

Otherwise, I think that the noticeboard should only really be used during a game to notify long periods of absence (ie a Day or more).

[Anguirel]

I'm sorry to be such a Puritan, but might I ask-just a precaution, there haven't really been any cases yet-that people don't get too excited about the Lovers aspect, with regard to language etc?

I don't mind in the least, but I have an extremely stringent school server which blocks sites based on the mildest little things. It would be a pity to find myself barricaded from the Downs for the vast majority of the year when I'm incarcerated here...

[Kath]

There is an increasing tendency for players to post on this thread simply to tell people when, during the Day, they will be on-line and when they will be voting. I am not so sure that this is a good thing, as it clutters up the thread and should not really be necessary.

To quote our current Mod-God:

All out-of-character comments, regarding absences, discussion of rules, usw, must be placed in the original Tol-in-Gaurhoth thread.
If someone knows they will have to vote early they often want to say why so they aren't unduly suspected for it. Since this can't be done in the game thread it must be done in here. Coming on each day and providing a list of when you'll be online is a little over the top I'll grant you, but I think it's ok to explain early votes.

[The Saucepan Man]

All out-of-character comments, regarding absences, discussion of rules, usw, must be placed in the original Tol-in-Gaurhoth thread.I would endorse this statement, only I would define absences in terms of days, rather than hours ...

Besides, how do you define voting early? Within the first hour, four hours, half a day? If everyone keeps coming on and saying when they have to vote by, it surely gets a bit silly.

[Kath]

I would say within the first half of the Day possibly extending a little further for those with timezone issues, though if all the players are aware of those who have those difficulties that wouldn't need to be mentioned.

[Farael]

I won't be around for too long today. tomorrow or on Friday. Tomorrow happens to be my birthday!!! Which means that today I'll be distracted and trying to get as much work done as I Can, so that I don't have to do it on my b-day. Tomorrow it does not matter as it's the night phase.... then on Friday I will probably be going out to celebrate my b-day with my friends. I should have time to check in but don't expect me to be too talkative.

[tar-ancalime]

I'm sorry to be such a Puritan, but might I ask-just a precaution, there haven't really been any cases yet-that people don't get too excited about the Lovers aspect, with regard to language etc?

I don't mind in the least, but I have an extremely stringent school server which blocks sites based on the mildest little things. It would be a pity to find myself barricaded from the Downs for the vast majority of the year when I'm incarcerated here...

Typical. The sometimes extremely gruesome deaths sail past the sensor-censors, but you've got to be worried about the slightest soupcon of salacious prose? Give me a break. It's the same with movie ratings. I will never understand this.

(PLEASE, don't castigate me for cluttering this thread. I solemnly swear never to do it again. I just couldn't let this pass.)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I forgot this in the list of rules, sorry. I'll just put it here.

Dissenting Kill Choices

When three or more Werewolves are still alive, the player with the most number of Werewolf 'votes' will be the NIGHT's kill.

In cases of ambiguity, I will request the Werewolves to individually PM their choices.

When only two Werewolves are left, the NIGHT's victim will be whomever the first Werewolf to PM me chooses.

When there is only one Werewolf left . . . you figure this out. :p

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Tomorrow is a Saturday. I mentioned before, Saturdays will be weird. I shall be closing the DAY two to three hours earlier than usual. I shall try my best to end the day as close to the nominal end time as possible.

Sorry for that inconvenience.

[Glirdan]

I will be gone for the rest of the Day so I will have to cast my vote soon...correction, I'm going to go do that now. Sorry everyone!!

[SamwiseGamgee]

So, Nilp, will we just have an extra long night and try to stick to the 0830 GMT?

[Glirdan]

My votes will probably be pretty early from now on and my posting very limited as well (back to school tomorrow :rolleyes: ). I'll try and post as much as possible.

[Farael]

Can I play in Valier's WWJ game and still mod for the "regular" WW? I'm up next on the list and I don't want to miss my chance.... yet Valier has invited me to her game and I wouldn't want to let her down either.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, when the Werewolf Junior thread was started, it was originally intended that people should not be playing (which includes moderating) in two Werewolf games at the same time. This was because one of the main reasons for starting the Werewolf Junior games (apart form allowing "newbies" to cut their fangs - ahem - teeth) was to ensure that those who wanted to play but had missed out on one game could play in another.

I suppose that there is some room for flexibility with regard to this "rule", but it seems to me that, where games are oversubscribed, priority should be given to those who are not already playing.

[Farael]

No problem with that SPM.... sounds reasonable enough =) I shall pencil my name down for Valier's then, and if more people join in I will step down. By the way, can I count on you for my game? :D

[Glirdan]

I'm letting everyone know that this will be my one and only post all day today. I have a lot of homework to do and will not have time to come and check what's going on.

[Lalaith]

Oh great ModGod Nilp - I'm assuming you're keeping the voting open for longer because of the site being down earlier. Can you give any guidance to your worshipful minions as to how long you're planning the extension for? :)

[SamwiseGamgee]

Could someone point me in the direction of the list(s) for modding WW and WWJ. I know I could look myself, but the phrase 'needle in a haystack' comes to mind!

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

DAY has been closed. I will not hold this DAY against those who have not posted or voted. They have a good excuse, after all.

[Valier]

I don't know what happened, but I tried for THREE hours to get on the Downs for my vote. I could not get here! :mad:

[Caranlondien]

Just for the record (although I guess everyone probably figured this anyway)... The site was down, and I couldn't get on to vote. I tried from 11:30 PM to 3:30 AM here, at which point I decided to just go to sleep.

[Gurthang]

Same story here. I tried about every half an hour from 12:00am to 2:30am and then gave up.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

tar-ancalime will be whisked away on the sixth NIGHT due to RL reasons.

Just so you know.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

tar-ancalime will be removed from the game along with the Werewolf's NIGHT kill.

[Cailín]

I am becoming a bit worried.

Prophet Nilp, you are starting the Day early, right? Right? Tis a Saturday after all.

And I have the little problem that I am supposed to be on the bus at 8:15 AM GMT to join my grandma & parents in the country for the weekend. So, if the day does not start early -as I assumed it would- I shall not be able to post or vote at all. :eek:

Very humble apologies. Don't hate me. I will suffer more from this trip than you.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I have opened the DAY late, because I was taking my French finals this noon.

[Nogrod]

Lommy would like all of you to know, that her absence today is due to her problems with net-access.

[Gurthang]

Just so everyone knows, and so I can get on the 'list' that seems so important, I want to say that I would like to mod sometime this summer. I don't care when exactly, but late May-June-July, sometime in there. I've already started thinking about how the game will go, so I better get my chance. Anyway, I guess put me down on the list. :D

[JennyHallu]

Farael's got the next game, right?

I am definitely in, whenever he pops up and starts doing sign-ups.

[Valier]

Jenny, Farael is playing in my game and modding ww20. Would you like me to sign you up for mine? I would like two more players before I start.

[JennyHallu]

Valier, Farael is Modding WWXX, which is the one I am signing up for. I can't commit to two at once, unlike Farael. Honestly I think he's crazed.

[Caranlondien]

Sign me up for Farael's game, too! This is horribly, horribly addictive...

[Nogrod]

I'll play aggressive enough to be lynched early in Valier's game at TiGJ... I really would like to join the game modded by Farael! So count me in also. I will withdraw, if the others won't lynch me there and it keeps being interesting...

[Valier]

I find this^^ Rude and offensive!!! Please do not sign up for a game, then if you don't like it,withdraw. I will not allow a withdrawl from my game for this reason.:mad: :(

[Nogrod]

I find this^^ Rude and offensive!!! Please do not sign up for a game, then if you don't like it,withdraw. I will not allow a withdrawl from my game for this reason.:mad: :(

I hope my PM was kind enough to answer - and to make the responsibilities straight: if I'm in in one game, then I'm in with that one (yours). Don't worry, Valier... :) I do not intend to die at the first day- even though the people who have played with me, could think that to be my daily style...

So I have not withdrawed your game Valier, it would not come into my mind! I was just thinking, whether I could participate on Farael's too. Maybe it's too much, maybe it isn't? Need to see how these games are going to develop. If we start on Monday (why should we wait until Tuesday?), we'll have the game going beautifully before Farael can start his...

[Farael]

Alrighty!!! I'm up next on the modding list. Good.

First of all, anyone minds if WW XX takes a week to start? It works out better for me that way, and also it gives me more time to convince Nilp to join :D

I'd be starting on Monday, April 3rd if that's ok with everyone else. Or maybe on Saturday the 1st if you rather have it start sooner.

Important things to decide:
*Voting deadline: I would propose somewhere around 6 PM Central time (which is 12 AM GMT). Our Brittish/European friends should be able to post relatively close to the deadline and us Americans/Canadians can post after school/university/work. Of course, I'm really bad with the timezones here in North America so if that time does not work for any of you all, let me know

Special Roles: I was thinking of trying something new, let's see what you think of it.

Rather than having a Seer who chooses whom to dream and then gets the information, we'd have a (let's give it another name) "Shaman" who's role is to ask the gods, deities or prophets information about one villager. This information will be disclosed on a dream.... but not to the Shaman. At least not necessarily. It will be given at random to anyone in the village. Including wolves.

Yes, I don't like the role of the Seer so much, I find it a little unbalancing when after five or six nights the seer comes out and all of a sudden half the village is known to be innocent. It would still be possible to do that, but I'm not going to say how... I'll let the Shaman (should he/she ever come to exist) figure it out.

Compensation: Ranger, Hunter and Shaman can PM during the day. The ranger can't protect the Shaman two nights in a row so they should choose carefully.

If the village is large enough, I'd like to toy with the werewolves a little.... but adding some Lovers might be over-kill. If you can figure out a good idea on what to do, either post it here or PM it to me and I can take the credit :D

Double-lynches: No. Unless I'm persuaded otherwise, there will be no double-lynches. If the village gets too big I'll figure out a different way of making the game shorter, but I don't like it when the game is over because of math. I want to make you all think *evil laugh*



By the way, I will need a co-mod as my schedule is, at best, crazy. Without a co-mod we might have days starting/ending late without proper notice.... so if you want to co-mod, PM me =) It'll be fun.

Ok, I think that's all... If you want to propose anything for the game, I'm all ears.

[Farael]

Here's the list of signees for Farael's game

Caranlondien: Vampires, no double lynch
JennyHallu:
Nogrod:?
Diamond:?
Grendelien:
Saucepan Wolf Vampires, indifferent
Findëasëa
Celuien:?
Right now, we need at least 10 more players. I'll decide the setting and all in a while.

Edit: Scratch that, I almost forgot... I have an interesting setting

We've had Wolves chasing after men (And women)
We've had heroes chasing after wolves
What are we forgetting?

Well, Some theories say that Orcs were originally corrupted elves. What it's only known by some few masters in the lore of Orcology is that Sauron the deciever had a bigger evil than his werewolves. He created the wereorcs :eek: During the day, those fiends looked just like any other elf, all stuffed and boring but at night... the fair skin turned into rotten leather, the soft hands replaced by claws and the eyes... so dead and lifeless. They turned into orcs.

So what do you all say? sounds plausible enough?

Last edited 11 10 AM, March 28th: Added Celuien

[Nogrod]

If you are not starting quite yet, I might want to apply into this. But put it down with a questionmark. I'll have to see, how I fare in Valier's game, starting tomorrow...

[Garin]

Nogrod: I do not intend to die at the first day- even though the people who have played with me, could think that to be my daily style...

If anyone needs a lynch lesson, I am available.

As much as i wish to obtain longevity ... I also am tempted to maiintain my perfect lynch record but it will always be buffered by my survival instinct.

Really, never get into a WW game unless you are willing to go all the way. It is one of the most annoying things in WW when someone just decides to quit after commiting.

[Nogrod]

Really, never get into a WW game unless you are willing to go all the way. It is one of the most annoying things in WW when someone just decides to quit after commiting.

Just check my record... There probably isn't a game where I haven't been the top poster. :D So my worries about not to be able to come in wholeheartedly means something like under 15 posts a day... :cool:

[Diamond18]

Farael, I might be interested in playing. Since Valier's game starts this week and yours doesn't start till next week, I may well be able to balance both. I'm going to be modding the next WWJ game after Valier so I want to get all the wolfish experience I can get before then. ;)

But put me down as a maybe. If by next week I feel I can't handle it, I don't want to be totally committed.

I love the wereorcs idea, by the way.

[Grendelien]

I would very much like to join the next game. I've been reading the posts from the previous game, and it looks like fun!

[The Saucepan Man]

Farael

I would certainly be interested, so please put me down as a maybe. I need to work out whether I am going to have the time spare to play another game. If I do play, I may have to try to limit my posting - although I always intend to do that and always seem to end up posting frequently and at length. :rolleyes:

Not to sure about Wereorcs. They don't really seem fearsome, or gothic, enough. What about Vampires? They are certainly canon (Thuringwethil, for example).

Also not sure about the Shaman, Ranger and Hunter being able to PM each other. One of the interests of the game is whether the Ranger is able to accurately identify and protect the Seer (or Shaman in this game). Add to that the fact that those who know each other's identity tend to be easier for the Wolves to spot, and it rather neutralises from the advantage. Personally, I prefer it when none of the Gifteds know each other.

The Shaman role sounds interesting, though.

I don't really mind about double lynchings, one way or the other. With a Seer instead of a Shaman, though, the mathematical win becomes less of a possibility.

I also think that we should stick to the rule that people should only play in one game at a time. There is generally enough interest that two games can be adequately populated without any need for doubling up. Properly played, a Werewolf game is quite a big committment, and two at the same time would perhaps be a bit too much. I know from having been following two games at a time that it easy to get them confused, and that is even more of a risk if people are playing in two games at once. It's not such an issue if someone is modding one game and playing in another (although I still think that this should be avoided unless someone has a lot of time on their hands), but it may be a problem if someone is playing in two games at once.

[Nogrod]

I would very much like to join the next game. I've been reading the posts from the previous game, and it looks like fun!

Welcome Grendelien!

[Nogrod]

I also think that we should stick to the rule that people should only play in one game at a time. There is generally enough interest that two games can be adequately populated without any need for doubling up. Properly played, a Werewolf game is quite a big committment, and two at the same time would perhaps be a bit too much. I know from having been following two games at a time that it easy to get them confused, and that is even more of a risk if people are playing in two games at once. It's not such an issue if someone is modding one game and playing in another (although I still think that this should be avoided unless someone has a lot of time on their hands), but it may be a problem if someone is playing in two games at once.

I think you have some wisdom here... and that's the reason, I've been so reluctant to go to one way or another. I have promised Valier to be in her game, and that's a deal, not to be withdrawn. What I have promised, I will keep. We'll see, how that game goes on - as this game will take some time to really start. So Farael, do use the question mark over my name still. I will be joining you, if I'm dead in the TiGJ-game, but if it turns out a good game (myself included), I will stay there...

[Findëasëa]

I see there is already a newbie signed up, but I'd like to sign up too, if that's okay. This will be exciting!

[Farael]

Not to sure about Wereorcs. They don't really seem fearsome, or gothic, enough. What about Vampires? They are certainly canon (Thuringwethil, for example).
I'll let "the people" decide.... so choose what ever you prefer. I have a thing for Vampires so I'm good with that

Also not sure about the Shaman, Ranger and Hunter being able to PM each other. One of the interests of the game is whether the Ranger is able to accurately identify and protect the Seer (or Shaman in this game). Add to that the fact that those who know each other's identity tend to be easier for the Wolves to spot, and it rather neutralises from the advantage. Personally, I prefer it when none of the Gifteds know each other.
Well, the point was that the ranger can't always protect the seer/shaman so he has to choose wisely... but maybe you are right, they'd be easier to spot. hmmm maybe we could scratch that and add the lovers?

I don't really mind about double lynchings, one way or the other. With a Seer instead of a Shaman, though, the mathematical win becomes less of a possibility. How so?

[Nogrod]

I see there is already a newbie signed up, but I'd like to sign up too, if that's okay. This will be exciting!

Welcome to the game!

[Caranlondien]

I like the idea of Vampires, and I like the Shaman role, too. My vote is definitely against double lynchings; Much as I enjoyed winning the last game, I sympathize with poor Form...

[Caranlondien]

And welcome, Grendelien and Findëasëa!

[The Saucepan Man]

I don't really mind about double lynchings, one way or the other. With a Seer instead of a Shaman, though, the mathematical win becomes less of a possibility.

How so?Sorry, I meant that with a Shaman instead of a Seer, the mathematical win becomes less of a possibility. Thinking it through, though, I am not sure that it does. The Shaman knows who he/she has dreamed of and can confirm the visions received by others, so the Shaman can still reveal and create a pool of known innocents.

[Garin]

Okay, I haven't seen any vampires in games but I am assuming that there is a chance of turning the chosen victim into a vampire as well. That is what vampires do with the first bite. This could be an amazing role because it might actually pit the vampire against the wolves. Vampires could attack the werewolves -- changing the furry pack animal into a lone seductor/seductress. We could have 3 factions going at it but would probably need at least 20 players.

[Diamond18]

Aren't vampires supposed to be killed by sunlight, and sleep during the Day?

Okay okay. I know mythos can be adapted, but I thought I'd just bring that up?

[Farael]

Sorry, I meant that with a Shaman instead of a Seer, the mathematical win becomes less of a possibility. Thinking it through, though, I am not sure that it does. The Shaman knows who he/she has dreamed of and can confirm the visions received by others, so the Shaman can still reveal and create a pool of known innocents.
Bad, BAD Saucepan Man... I said there was a way but I'd let the Shaman figure it out!! Yes, it is still possible, just a little more complicated and a little less "Certain" as if a wolf happens to get one of the dreams (and mostly, if a wolf happens to get a dream about a fellow wolf) he/she could lie....

[The Saucepan Man]

Bad, BAD Saucepan Man... I said there was a way but I'd let the Shaman figure it out!!Oops! Well you did ask ... :D

I did toy with the idea of Vampires who could convert innocent villagers into their own kind a while back. The game would need to start with just one Vampire, but even then it seemed to me that it would be very difficult for the villagers to win, and impossible without the availability of double-lynchings.

I only suggested Vampires because I thought that Farael was looking for an alternative to Werewolves simply in name.

Although a three way game with Werewolves and a Vampire who could convert others into Vampires might be interesting, if completely confusing, if it could be worked out properly ...

[Farael]

... hopefully not stepping in anyone's toes

After toying with the idea of having vampires rather than wereorcs, I have decided to go with the latter. What I want, actually, is an excuse to have an elven village, and I think orcs work best, as they are THE enemies of the fair folk.

Having said that, we could have a vampire if we can work out how it'd work without unbalancing the game to either side.

[Caranlondien]

The Saucepan Man makes a good point. In a game with both Werewolves and Vampires, I might be persuaded in favor of double lynches.

Vampires would make the Shaman/Seer's role more, er, interesting, wouldn't they? Known innocents wouldn't remain known very long.

What an interesting game that would be...

[Celuien]

Looks like an interesting game. But I don't know if I can handle three rounds in a row.

Must think it over. I'll join Diamond in the maybe camp.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Farael, your game looks really interesting! Sign me up, please!

Unless I have the timezones really messed up, it looks like about 6:00 PM Central time is 7:00 PM EST, which is a welcome change. It means that I won't have to vote early (though it also means that I'll only have an hour or two to review all the posts I missed, but that's not bad.) So it works for me, which is a change.

As for double-lynchings: I am not a fan. As I said once, I think in the WWJ thread, I want my own ironic death, thanks. :p But on a more serious note, I think that they're just too easy to abuse.

If the only difference between wereorcs and vampires is the name, I prefer vampires...just because wereorcs are too...icky. :p

[Celuien]

I did toy with the idea of Vampires who could convert innocent villagers into their own kind a while back. The game would need to start with just one Vampire, but even then it seemed to me that it would be very difficult for the villagers to win, and impossible without the availability of double-lynchings.
Actually, the vampire sounds sort of like Lmp's evil wizard role from the "Taur-in-Gaurhoth Scenarios You'd Like to See" thread.
Having said that, we could have a vampire if we can work out how it'd work without unbalancing the game to either side.
A Ranger who's able to change vampire victims into ordos? A new Healer role who does the same thing, only without the other Ranger qualities?

So, umm, I think I'm crazy enough to go three in a row, unless the game fills and someone who hasn't been around wants a spot. :D

[Nogrod]

I did toy with the idea of Vampires who could convert innocent villagers into their own kind a while back. The game would need to start with just one Vampire, but even then it seemed to me that it would be very difficult for the villagers to win, and impossible without the availability of double-lynchings.
-------
Although a three way game with Werewolves and a Vampire who could convert others into Vampires might be interesting, if completely confusing, if it could be worked out properly ...

If we had a game big enough (not too big anyhow), and the vampires would be contesting with the wolves?

We might f.ex. have a rule, that only those villains outnumbering the others, are allowed the "night-kill"? In this case the wolves would have the edge in the beginning, but if vampires would pass them in numbers, the wolves would be in a very sticky situation indeed. A kind of seer-wolf could do the trick to balance it somewhat. A seer-wolf would dream as a seer, but be revealed her/his dream-targets vampireness only. One could think of an automatic upgrading here, the W-S having "upgrades" to her/his dreams automatically, if someone s/he has dreamed of, had turned to a vampire later on?

Or the cursed villager, turning only to a wolf, not to a vampire: if the vampires would try to turn that person to a vampire, they would just be informed, that it didn't happen? During the days, both wolves and vampires would anyhow just have to make it with their tongues...

Anyway: the vampires ability to increase their numbers is a strong asset as the game goes forwards and should be balanced in someway...

The villagers, anyhow, seem to be the ones, that will really have the hard times... Maybe something to compensate to them also? The real seer having auotomatic upgrades? A PM'd Seer's discovery of innocence to all innocent villagers, when that comes around? Or maybe even all of the Seer's information passed on to all villagers - in that case no automatic upgrades, I guess = you couldn't believe everything the seer has learned after one or two days?

Or two hunters? Three? (a +15 game would be needed, I suppose) Maybe we could have different kinds of hunters? 1 normal (having to suspect one villain, of the kind that comes to kill her/him), 1 multiple-villain-hunter (able to suspect two or three villains at the same time, but only applying, if the attackers are of the kind - vampire or a wolf - s/he suspects) and 1 "Rambo-class"-hunter (not needing to suspect anyone: just dragging any attacker with her/him to death - the attacker killed could be randomly decided by the Mod)?

It seems fascinating - and very complicated! This, if thought through with care, could be a really challenging game. But the threat of one party or another being too overwhelming lures around...

EDIT: 500 messages! :D

[Celuien]

Another balance...maybe:

If a vampire targets a wolf, vampire dies. If a vampire attacks a gifted, nothing happens to the gifted AND the gifted learns the vampire's identity.

Or is that pushing the balance too far against the vampires?

[JennyHallu]

Um...I recognize that I may very well be all on my lonesome in this...

But I think the vampires sound absolutely confusing and unbalanced...especially in a game with two newbies have signed up. Grendelien and Findëasëa, are you still here?

I'm all for calling the werewolves potted petunias if our Fearless Leader so wishes, but actually modifying the game for these vampires sounds too confusing. A lot of kinks need to be worked out first.

[Nogrod]

Um...I recognize that I may very well be all on my lonesome in this...

But I think the vampires sound absolutely confusing and unbalanced...especially in a game with two newbies have signed up.


I don't know about the tone or intent of others participating on this discussion about the vampires. I have only toyed about the possibility of this kind of game - in some future, not probably a very near one, because I believe, this requires some serious thought first.

It sounds interesting - if it could be well and balancedly organized. I have no intention in asking Farael to go on with this wild idea in an instant, in a game that after all is his game! That's not something that I could, or even would like to do...

[Celuien]

Um...I recognize that I may very well be all on my lonesome in this...

But I think the vampires sound absolutely confusing and unbalanced...especially in a game with two newbies have signed up. Grendelien and Findëasëa, are you still here?

I'm all for calling the werewolves potted petunias if our Fearless Leader so wishes, but actually modifying the game for these vampires sounds too confusing. A lot of kinks need to be worked out first.

Aww, confusion is fun. :p

But seriously, you have a point. And the vampire is awfully similar to Elempi's confusing evil wizard. That game is going to be very, very complex.

Players:

Caranlondien
JennyHallu
Nogrod?
Diamond?
Grendelien
Saucepan Wolf
Findëasëa
Celuien (un-question-marked myself. ;))
Zali

So we have 9 (?) so far. Maybe the village won't be large enough for the new role anyway.

[Farael]

How about this?

(We'd need a large village) The game starts with four wereorcs and one vampire. The vampire may choose one villager every night to "transform" but only if this transformation will not put the number of vampires over half the number of wereorcs (rounding up)

Effectively, this means that you can only have two vampires, and that only if there are three or four wereorcs.

So, first day we have four wereorcs and one vampire.

Second day I assume it'll be four wereorcs and now two vampires, the vampires can't get anyone else.

Third day the villagers lynch a wereorc, but given the rounding up two vampires are still allowed.

Fourth day the villagers lynch a vampire. Fourth night, the vampire chooses someone else.

Fifth day, the living vampire already choose his next victim, so it's back to three wereorcs and two vampires, but when the day is done the villagers lynch another wereorc. Now the ratio is two-two, so should the villagers get another vampire, the remaining one can't transform anyone else.

BUT.

If the vampire tries to convert a wereorc nothing happens yet both learn each other's identity. If the wereorc decides to attack the vampire, the vampire is kiled.

If the vampire tries to convert a gifted, their role is revealed to the gifted and the fact that the other person was "gifted" is revealed to the vampire, but not what gift he/she has.

Wouldn't the game be over too soon? well, to avoid needing a 30+ village which can get far too hectic, I'd say that the vampire is "smarter" than a wereorc and thus he lets the wereorcs do the dirty job while he kicks back and selects his allies carefully. Once all the wereorcs are dead, and should the vampire still be alive, he starts getting a nightly kill.

Still, we'd need a village of about 20 people for it to work out.... and that's only if you all want to try it out.

Oh, and trying the role of the vampries would mean that we are not doing the Shaman thing.... that way we cah see if a game with vampires is fun or not and on a later day we can do the same experiment for a game with a shaman.

[Legolas in spandex]

Is THIS what I was PM'D about? I am so confuzzled. :rolleyes:

[The Saucepan Man]

That all looks far too complicated to me, Farael. :eek:

My speculation about vampires was as an alternative to werewolves, rather than as an additional team. Even then, it would need to be carefully worked out and might ultimately prove to be unworkable.

All this adding extra roles and boosting the powers of others to compensate seems to me simply to add unnecssary complication and risks seriously unbalancing the game. I am all for tweaking the roles or trying out new ones, but I think it best that these things be done incrementally rather than by wholesale change. That way, new roles can be tested with minimum risk of imbalance and, if they work, can be later incorprated into new games in different combinations.

Oh, and I still don't like wereorcs. They just come across as wholly underwhelming.

How about were-wyrms? They're canon. :D

[Celuien]

All looks good to me, Farael. I like the cap on the number of vampires. Keeps them from winning just by transforming all of the ordos.

I'd like to give it a try, if possible.
Is THIS what I was PM'D about? I am so confuzzled.
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Werewolf. :D

This is the recruiting/admin thread for most of the Tol-in-Gaurhoth games, so if you're looking to sign up for a game, you've come to the right place.

Any questions, ask away.

[Farael]

That all looks far too complicated to me, Farael. :eek:
I guess us young ones are more used to change :p

All this adding extra roles and boosting the powers of others to compensate seems to me simply to add unnecssary complication and risks seriously unbalancing the game. I am all for tweaking the roles or trying out new ones, but I think it best that these things be done incrementally rather than by wholesale change. That way, new roles can be tested with minimum risk of imbalance and, if they work, can be later incorprated into new games in different combinations.
Well, I wouldn't really be giving anything to the others to compensate. Let me state it more simply.

There is a cap on the number of vampires, which is half the number of wereX rounded up. The vampires can only be more than the cap number should the wereX get lynched but not the vampires.

The vampires don't get a nightly kill untill all the wereX are gone.

A vampire trying to convert a wereX gets himself revealed to the wereX
A vampire trying to convert a gifted reveals himself to the gifted and in turn the vampire knows he has chosen a gifted (but not what gifted)

A wereX trying to devour a vampire does it as if it was a villager.

Vampires don't get nightly kills until all the wereX's are gone.

The only way it'd work is with a large village though. The vampires are unlike the werebears in that they don't get a nightly kill every night, and the only way they can rid themselves of the wereX's is by the "conventional" methods.

Oh, and I still don't like wereorcs. They just come across as wholly underwhelming.
How about were-wyrms? They're canon. :D
Ok.... were-wyrms in a dwarven cave?

[The Saucepan Man]

I guess us young ones are more used to changeAnd us old 'uns are wise and experienced enough to know that the old ways of doing things are the best ... :p

Personally, I think that all this "if X does A, then Y can't do B unless Z does C" kind of thing is far too rulebound and is only likely to detract from the game, even assuming that it doesn't unbalance it.

That's not to say that you shouldn't try it, but it doesn't really appeal to me.

[Farael]

Well Saucer, then I guess we shall se what the others think. Still, if no more people sign up for the game, we wont have enough players for a far-fetched new thing.

Nothing is set in stone, not even the wereorcs =( now it's either wereorcs in elven village or werewyrm in dwarven hold =P Point is, NOT WEREWOLVES WITH HUMANS.

[Celuien]

Well, I don't mind having something complicated thrown into the mix, just to shake things up. :D That said, a back-to-basics standard game would also be fun.

I like the alliteration of were-wyrms, though there's nothing wrong with a were-orc. Other than being a were-orc, of course.

[Nogrod]

Farael!

Just remove that questionmark from my name. Those hideous werecats killed me the first night in WWJ... So I'm in.

[Diamond18]

Well, I'm staying mostly out of the vampire discussion since I'm not even commited to playing this game yet (after Valier's WWJ is done I'm going to be setting up my own game, don't know if I should juggle modding and playing) but I thought I'd toss my two cents in about wereorcs.

I like the idea. I don't find it underwhelming or icky. Plus you get to have an Elven village, which is cool, and Orcs are a good counterpoint.

I don't care for the term Werewyrms. Weredragons maybe, but Werewyrms just makes me think of mutant nightcrawlers.

At any rate, this is all just window dressings, so it's not that important, I just thought I'd opine.

[Nogrod]

At last I have had time to see, what actually is going on in here.

Firstly, we should see for realities: if Legolas is joining, we will be having 10 people attending so far. It does not seem to be a 25-player megagame, starting on Monday, with lots of new characters etc...

I would back The Saucepan Man in that we shouldn't try to revolutionize things too much with the same trial (I'm one of those oldies too... :D ). But I would be interested in trying something. Both the new "Shaman"-stuff or the Vampire-thing could be interesting. I'm just afraid, that both of those things might make some more trouble to the villagers.

With the pace of recruiting players, we should probably try something with the seer. I'm not sure, if Farael's concern with the Seer having too much power is justified, and his suggestion of spreading the Seer's dreams clearly weakens her/him (there are possibilities for the Seer then also, as Sauce mentioned, but still). But how about, if we strengthen the villagers defence in the case of Seer dreams going around and about, by letting just the ranger and the hunter to PM? Sauce suspected, that they would be easier targets to the wolves then. Maybe, maybe not? If they play in somewhat a "wolvish style" during the days, then perhaps not? What they would gain, would be: trust, new ideas and sharing of concerns + possible tactical things together... Worth trying methinks.

NOTE: only the ranger and the hunter PM'ing - so they wouldn't know the seer and the Seer wouldn't know them (I appreciate Sauce's point about gifteds being in the dark, but I guess the hunter anyhow, is a "lonely wolf"... ;) ).


The rest is only for those interested in speculation about a possible Vampire-game someday in the future:

It could be done. And would not be too complicated. Just would need lots of people to play...

One vampire to begin with, trying to make a friend for her/himself to begin with. Then laying low, trying to influence the game during the daytime to get the village rid of the Weres - and hoping for survival, both day and night, as villagers. If managing it to the end of the wolves, then s/he or they would be falling on the villagers - and the game continues for awhile still. Not too complicated I think? But would need quite a many villagers...

I think Farael's idea of four wolves a bit overstretched. Three wolves + a chance for the one vampire to try and recruit one friend (s/he has quite a chance to miss that one and be revealed to someone) during the nights, so long as no wolves have been lynched (or until s/he has one). Then finito for vampire-recruiting (so max. 2 Vamps for the game).

At this scenario, we would have - in the best/worst possible scene, after the night 1 (one innocent lynched day 1 and the vampire succeeding night 1 + wolf kill on innocent night 1) - 5 "baddies" (3W + 2V), and 2 innocents dead + 1 turned to a Vampire. From the initial players, 8 have been "used" here. So something like 20 villagers required to make a balanced game? Comments?

[Nogrod]

To the other, more practical issues:

Double lynches: No (if the village is small or medium-sized).

Deadline 12 AM GMT: Ok. (it's 3AM here, but as I see the value of those extra hours in America, that's fine by me)

Retractable votes: Always fun and adding excitement, but I can play without them also.

Wereorcs vs. -wyrms vs. whatever: Wereorcs are just fine.

[Celuien]

Back to practical matters:

I vote for:

No double lynches in a small village (under 12).
Retractable votes. Never been in a game with them. Should be interesting.
12 AM GMT is good.

Not sure when the game is starting, but if it starts soon, this is notice that I'll be away on April 7 to attend a special concert.

[JennyHallu]

No double lynches.

12 AM GMT is lovely.

Retractable votes are all kinds of fun.

I'll be away April 8 to judge at a speech and debate tournament. I won't be around much on April 16? (Easter) as I am singing in church and then we are having peopleses over.

[Farael]

Well, I'd like it better if we had 15 people to begin with.... so go!! Invite more players!! Sadly my game is right before LMP's which promises to be epic and so many people are waiting for that one =( but it's ok, we'll have a blast anyway =P

Re: Double lynches: No
Re: Retractable votes: No unless there is a 65% majority in the village saying otherwise
Re:WereX: Wereorcs :D and we'll ignore SPM's comments :p
Re: 12 AM GMT: Seems it'll be fine


Re:Co-mod: I will need somoene who can be here 12 AM GMT almost every day. My times are volatile at best and while a 12 AM GMT deadline (6 PM over here) works like a charm, I might not be around.

Nogrod has volunteered but he said he might not always be around. Is there anyone who knows will be around (almost) for sure?

[The Saucepan Man]

I still fail to see how any Elf worth his salt should not be able to deal with three Orcs breaking into his house at night. They just ain't fearsome.

But my views are not really relevant now as I am afraid that I am becoming rather busy at work and so will reluctantly have to pull out of the game. Sorry Farael. :(

[Farael]

Caranlondien:
JennyHallu:
Nogrod:
Diamond:?
Grendelien:
Findëasëa
Celuien:
Zali

Am I forgetting anyone? also, Valier has volunteered to co-mod as she says she'll be available. Hope that's ok with you, Nogrod =)

[JennyHallu]

I think we should attempt to confirm in some way Grendelien and Findësëa are still participating. I have not seen that they have returned to the board since they signed up.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Farael is very convincing. I'm in, although during the first game week I'd be back to my normally confusing self, with a dash of brilliance every other DAY or so, perhaps. Hehe. :D

Too bad Sauce pulled out. Whither goest now my revenge? :(

Weregilds are nice. :p I've seen the evils of double lynchings in my game, so no. Deadline is sehr excellent, 8 pm local. And I don't exaclty relish retractable votes, but I can be swayed by the majority.

Shaman looks interesting. The others are quite confusing.

[Formendacil]

Put me down as a maybe... it all depends how long Valier's game runs- and whether or not there are more worthy new players who deserve a spot.

But otherwise, I'm in...

[Kitanna]

I'd like to play too, but first I have to see how long Valier's game is.

[Caranlondien]

I'm in favor of trying out the Shaman role... Vampires look like fun, but I think more thought has to go into them before trying them out. And I'm not sure what to think about retractable votes. Right now my vote is against them, but if the majority wants them, that's cool too.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I really, really would like to play, but I don't know if I should. Confusticate and bebother all this springtime busyness!

Okay, I'll play if it's fine with other players that you'll see me much less than usually. I don't want to steal a spot from someone who could concentrate on WWing better than me right now, but I wouldn't want to miss Farael's game either.

And now, some other things. If anyone is interested in my opinions at this point, here they are:


-I'd love to try out retractable votes.

-I'd prefer keeping the baddies as werewolves. Orcs are almost like humans, so the concept of a man turning into an orc at nights doesn't feel as scary as a man turning into a wolf. Besides, wolves are more graceful. Becaming an orc after the sunset reminds me of princess Fiona in Shrek. :p Weredragons on the other hand... they must be quite tiny dragons in order to perform their nightly kills without that anyone sees them. However, ultimately it's Farael's choice, so whatever he decides, it's fine with me.

-So the deadline is 12 midnight GMT, right? Also, is that 12:00 GMT 0 or GMT +1 due to DST? In any case, that's a very decent deadline, thank you.

[Farael]

I'm dead tired so I'll leave discussion for later, I just wanted to update the player's list

Caranlondien:
JennyHallu:Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Diamond:?
Grendelien:
Findëasëa
Celuien:lampwright
Zali
NIlp
Formen?
Kitanna
Lhuna????????<--- If not, I won't be her lover anymore *ahem* Oh, hey Nilp, what are you doing in Canada?? =P

[Kitanna]

Since I have been killed off in Valier's game I can defiantly play in this one.

[Grendelien]

I'm so sorry I've been away for a couple days...I definitely am still playing. As soon as this weekend's madness is over, I'll be able to fully dedicate myself to werewolfing!

[JennyHallu]

That's great...I just worried since I hadn't seen you. Glad you're still excited about it! Can't wait...when are we starting, Farael?

[Farael]

I don't want to start the game with fewer than 15 players.... if we get to that number before Monday, we'll start on Monday (night phase 1, so villagers get to start posting on Tuesday). If not, as soon as we get 15 players.

[Grendelien]

Oh, how rude of me...I don't know where my scattered brain has been...Thanks, all, for the greetings!

[Nogrod]

Caranlondien:
JennyHallu:
Nogrod:
Diamond:?
Grendelien:
Findëasëa
Celuien:
Zali
NIlp
Formen?
Kitanna
Lhuna????????


If we add Spawn to this, it will make 13. Sleepy has promised to think about this one too. Should we try to PM-recruit the last two in, so that we could start tomorrow (Monday)? Lommy is out from the WWJ-game, but has a big school-project, and so won't probably be joining this one.

Should we go for some occupations? That I think kind of depends on the overall setting of the village - elves, humans...?

What's your decision Farael?

[JennyHallu]

Well...I won't be around to help recruit. Must go remind my husband he's supposed to wake up in a bit, go to church, and then fix my car because somehow I've done something bad to the muffler. But hopefully I will be here tonight and I can see what you guys have accomplished.

[Farael]

Re: Occupations

Wereorcs it'll be in an elven village. It will be on the first age and epic roles (such as Silmaril keeper of Feanor follower ) will be allowed.... as long as they are deemed funny enough =D

Re: Starting date

Unless we get Formen, Diamond and Lhuna confirmed and three more players before about 12 AM GMT, i'll pull the starting date back to Tuesday.

[Celuien]

Occupation:

I will be a lampwright.

[Nogrod]

Occupation:

I will be an unemployed barber.

As the elves do not seem to grow a beard, I must be a victim of a poor career-advisoring at school... Although in the Middle-ages the people caring for any operations at the battlefield, or otherwise, were the barbers - the only guys with sharp blades anyway.

[JennyHallu]

Nogrod: Perhaps you worked for Cirdan, the Elf with the defective hair follicles.

I think, as it has served me well, that I will be a Prophetess of DOOM. I wear a sign over my fair shoulders that states, in finely painted runes, THE WORLD IS GOING TO END, SUCKERS.

[Farael]

I'll push the tentative starting date to Tuesday for now.... try to get at least two more players (and those players with a question mark, try to confirm whether or not you are playing). I've edited my previous post to account for the occupations

[Diamond18]

I can't say for sure, Farael. I may have to bow out because I'm still involved in Valier's game, and will be setting up my own game after hers is over. But since you're hurting for players... if I'm not in Valier's game by Tuesday, I might just try to balance recruiting for my game with playing this one. If you don't mind that I'll be multi-tasking, that is.

[Formendacil]

I'll push the tentative starting date to Tuesday for now.... try to get at least two more players (and those players with a question mark, try to confirm whether or not you are playing). I've edited my previous post to account for the occupations

Sorry, I'm in the same boat as Diamond. Unless I'm out of the game toDay, toNight, or possible toMorrow, I'm not going to be able...

[Lhunardawen]

Lhuna????????<--- If not, I won't be her lover anymore *ahem*I still love you, anyway. ;)

Hmm...this is rather complicated. I really, really, really want to join, but these summer days are, well, unpredictable. Which means I won't be as committed to this game as I want to be. And I don't want to do that on your game, Farael. :(


Oh, hey Nilp, what are you doing in Canada?? =PIt's 8 AM local, my timezone-confuzzled big bro. :p That means very early votes for us. Not good at all.

[Grendelien]

Occupation:

I will be the village whittler.

[Caranlondien]

Much as I enjoyed being a lumberjack (and the decapitating of werewolves that went with the territory), I think I'll switch to something without chainsaws - perhaps an aspiring harpist.

[JennyHallu]

Aspiring? Sounds ominous. Grendelien, could you please whittle me earplugs?

[Caranlondien]

Fear not, for I shall practice at my harp so often (and so loudly, er, I mean, enthusiastically) that surely I shall improve... otherwise, I'm sure you'll just get used to it!

[Grendelien]

Tiny mice that rest ever so gently on teacups are my speciality, but I'll try my hardest to whittle you some effective earplugs, JennyHallu.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Hee, this is fun.

For my occupation, I would like to be a stringer-of-bows...Elves need bows, and someone's got to string them :p

As a heads-up... If the game start time is 12:00 AM GMT, which is 8:00 PM EST, I will...

*(melo)dramatic pause*

Not have to worry about time zones at all! I'm thrilled!

[Findëasëa]

Hey, sorry that I haven't been posting; midterms are finally over. I will be a paleoelfropologist.

[Nogrod]

Well, as I had time and energy, I tried to help with updating the list. It looks a bit bad for a game to start tomorrow - taking heed to Farael's seeming RL hindrances as well...

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu:Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali stringer-of-bows
NIlp
Kitanna

Lhuna - not sure?
Dancing Spawn... - not sure?

Diamond:? - still alive in Valier's game
Formen? - still alive in Valier's game

So it's only 9 players (of which two haven't affirmed by giving their occupations), then two unsure and two pretty much no (as the Valier-game is still underway).

It seems, at the moment, that the next drop-out from Valier's game is either Glirdan or Mormegil. Both could be asked.

I have asked both Sleepy and Mithalwen to join, but both had good reasons not to join now. And as I said earlier, Lommy won't be in either.

Any ideas?

[Nogrod]

Valier's game might be at the end in minutes - they seemed to have lynched the one I have suspected probably the most the last two days just a while ago. Valier's death-post will be in soon. If they got the wolf, we'll have players, possibly... :) Otherwise it was just one more of my bad hunches.

[littlemanpoet]

Um, the longer it takes for Farael's game to get underway and play out, the better it works for little ol' me. :p I have a lot of deaths to write. And I'd really like to help Farael out by playing his game, but, well, I have a lot of deaths to write. :rolleyes:

[Diamond18]

Eh? You're writing deaths already, LMP? Doesn't your game start after Farael's? :p

Unless Farael's game is pushed back some more, I won't be playing. It doesn't really look like it's going to be able to start on Tuesday though... so what if you made it Wednesday or Thursday? By then you'll have more dead people from Valier's game or it might even be over.

[Nogrod]

Well, Glirdan was innocent: so no "conspiracy of the Idols-judges" - although that one too made 2/3 right... :). I have asked him to join. Let's see if he will be ready to take on a game just after another.

And surely lmp, you could spare some time from your deaths to play a game, as a warm-up of sorts? Leaving something to be done during the game too? :rolleyes:

[Farael]

Alright, given that LMP has actually said that the longer it takes for the game to begin the better it'll be for him, I'll push the starting date until next Friday at the very least. I was trying to hurry things not to bother LMP (whom I thought would be anxious to try his new game out) but hey, if he is fine with it.... =D works out pretty swell.

Just for the record, in this game I will try the Shaman role, it will be a village of elves infested by very nasty wereorcs, no double lynches and I'm not sure but probably no retractable votes. I want my players to think their votes through and then suffer when they are unsure but must cast a vote :D

[Glirdan]

I got back to Nogrod and said I'm in. As for occupation, well...I'll let your wild immagination decide on that. ;)

[Diamond18]

Well, I'm dead and gone from Valier's game so you can take the question mark away from my name, Farael. I hope you don't mind if (after her game is done) I'll be balancing playing your game with recruiting for the next WWJ game.

As for occupation, I'll be an Inept Jewel Smith.

[JennyHallu]

I'm seeing...umm...light-absorbing Silmarils?

[Glirdan]

I'm seeing...umm...light-absorbing Silmarils?(Jenny)

That's funny because I see Narya more then anything...

Daimond, will you be modding the next Junior game?

[Lhunardawen]

Next Friday at the very least? Hmm...things are looking up...

Unfortunately I will be without internet access until that following Sunday or Monday.

Thanks so much for needing more time, Elempi! :D

[Diamond18]

Yes. I'm thinking it will probably start around the time Farael's game is winding down, seeing as it seems to usually take a week or so to recruit enough players for a game. If necessary it'll start after Farael's game is over, though I don't want it to interfere with LMP's mega game.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

dancing spawn, what about your dreams of . . . well, dreams that require a lot of studying for them to be fulfiled? :p

But I'm not complaining. Glad to play with you again. :)

I'll be a . . . mortician. Since Elves don't die naturally, I'm almost jobless--until the game starts. :D

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

dancing spawn, what about your dreams of . . . well, dreams that require a lot of studying for them to be fulfiled? :pYeah, well... :o Couldn't miss this one.

I've always wanted to make a living as a professional Minesweeper player, anyway...


As to my occupation, I'll be a merchant.

[Nogrod]

I would just like to upgrade this one, as no-one else has done it... so that others might see, that a real game is indeed beginning

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
NIlp: a mortician
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Glirdan: - occupation from the mods?
Kitanna:

+ possibly?
Formen? - still alive in Valier's game?
(Lhuna seems not to able to play, if I understood the post correctly... hope I'm wrong.)

So 12 clear players now - of which one is "uncomfirmed" (Kitanna has not left her occupation). A couple of more needed... And please do correct my list, if I have left out someone or something...

[Lhunardawen]

Okay, okay, you know I can't refuse you Farael...

I shall be a, um, a Tilion-obsessed Elf. Not to be confused with a Lhunatic. :D

(Second union of Maiar and Elves, anyone? ;))

[Farael]

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
NIlp: a mortician
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Glirdan:Very confused wereWOLF hunter (confused as he's faced with wereorcs rather than werewolves)
Kitanna:
Lhuna:Tilion-obsessed Elf

Alright!! 13 players thos far.... we are 2 away from 15... come on guys, we have two days to get two players, we can do that, can't we?

Glirdan, I have you a job... hope you like it

[Glirdan]

Oooo!! That's going to be fun!! :D Thanks Farael!

[Lhunardawen]

Feel free to lynch me - I'm quite used to it already, anyway - but I'm quite confused as to when this game will really start. Will it begin within a day or two, or next week? Because if it will be starting within the next couple of days I'll have to pull out, since I'll be away from (Downs) civilization for three to four days next week...

Ugh. I feel so awful. I'm sorry Farael...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I thought the game would start sometime yesterday... Do we still not have enough players?

[JennyHallu]

We need at least two more, Zali, and it looks like probably three more, since Lhuna is gone next week.

[Farael]

Ah!! Now I know how Sauron felt... I turn my mind away from the WW game for a moment and I start loosing players!! No wonder the guy was a little crancky, imagine having to keep all those orcs in mind at all time.... :p

Anyway, right now I'm 2 and a half hours away from when I have to leave for a final exam so I can't make any choices... I'll put it up to you.

We can start today (roles will be sent around 4 30 and the game will start around 5 ish), we can start tomorrow or we can wait until about Monday or Tuesday... it is up to you guys, I don't want to hold everything back THAT much... LMP must be getting impatient (even if he does not admit it :p )

[The Saucepan Man]

Given that recruitment for games now involves less of a flood of applications than it once did, I wonder whether the time has come to retire the WW Junior thread? It seems that the level of interest has now settled to a level where one game at a time may be sufficient. I realise, however, that this may frustrate (or rather delay) some modding expectations.

Thoughts?

[Diamond18]

Right now, SpM, there are three games in the junior queue.

Perhaps we ought to retire it after those games are finished?

[Mithalwen]

I think, with all the variations in the games that have been going on, there may be wariness to commit to games that may be very large and (therefore long) and complicated. One of the reasons I declined this game was that I got the impression that it was going to be too demanding for the amount of time I might be able to make available. I have lost track of exactly what is proposed. Even during Nilp's big game I still found a viable market for the original stripped down version of WW. It seems a bit mean to stop the shorter simpler games because huge games can't get filled.

I am never going to be able to commit to a game that might last 3 weeks because of the variable nature of my work and internet access whereas a WWJ game with a maximum of 15 players is possible. Stopping the small games would just stop me playing at all since I would not realistically be able to transfer to the longer senior games.

I don't think it is a simple lack of demand, more that many people want to know what they are letting themselves in for now that one game is seldom on the same format as the last. However the forthcoming Easter break and the imminent exam season may also be factors. I can think of several keen players who may force me to revert to teacher mode if I see them sign up :p

[Formendacil]

I'd love it if you waited a few days, Farael... then I could play!

Regarding the WWJ vs. WW issue...

I think that WWJ games should be played as needed. That is, when there is a surplus of players who can't get into a regular game. In other words, they should not being going on, one after another, as a matter of course, in the same way that the regular games follow each other.

Of course, this does mean a bit of uncertainty regarding the Moderators, who are standing in line, and have a bit of an idea as to when their turn will come, and who can plan accordingly. By making the timing of the WWJ games dependent on a surplus of players from the main games, it will mean that Moderators will be probably have to volunteer at that time- on short notice, that is to say.

That said, having WWJ games in that fashion could mean that it'll be easier for some people to moderate, as it will mean not having to put their names down months in advance.

[Glirdan]

Yes, I agree that the WW flood has quieted down, but that was not the sole purpose of the idea when it first came up. It was for those who felt intimidated by the more experienced players. It's also another way for those who didn't make a game and wanted to, to be in another one. I's a place where people can practice their writing before trying it out here. It's a place for new ideas to pop as well. In all honesty, the Junior games are rather convenient for us, even if the flood has slowed down. So my vote is to keep for the reasons I've stated earlier as well as the fact that I started it and I should get a say in it after having it going for so long. :D

[Diamond18]

This is kind of an important matter to me because of course I'm modding the next WWJ game and I should like to know where that stands when I do. To elaborate a little on what I posted before --

It does seem rather slow, currently, when a senior game is having trouble reaching 15 players. But, right now some of us (me, Nog/Thin, and Sam) all have definite plans percolating for games, and I don't really like the idea of just preemptively putting the kibosh on all three of our games. I suppose we could be translated to the Senior queue to wait after the three (I think?) games in planning here. However I think that should only be done if it proves impossible to get any players for our games while there are Senior games in the works. Because if some still like the idea of a Junior game, I think it can still be handled, albeit with a slower recuiting phase.

So, unless there is really strong objection I still plan on recruiting for my game after Valier's ends. I'd like to see what kind of response I get before I give up. It seemed to me that enough people signed up for Mith and Val's games within a decent time period, so perhaps this slowness for Farael's really is due to a temporary situation like finals, etc.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Well, as the cat is out of the bag, I might say a few things as well. It's been proved that 'newbie' players can be as talented and contribute as much as those with more games under their belt - and hey, it's one of the best ways to learn to be thrown in a group with more experienced people who can teach you. I think the atmosphere in the games has been rather welcoming, so at least there shouldn't be a reason why newcomers would have to be intimidated in 'adult' WWs.

Having two games going on simultaneously has led to a situation where a player, after his or her death in one game, joins another while the first one is still unfinished. I think there was a rule that a player can't be in two games at the same time, and this said situation seems like stretching the rule. Not that it would be a horrible thing to break a rule, per se, but one of the consequences of it is that if everyone who has died in a WW game go and join a WWJ while the first game is still going on, there won't be enough people willing to play when the recruiting for a new WW game starts.

I agree with Mithalwen that smaller games are welcome, but I can't see why there couldn't be a 'normal' WW game of approx. 13-15 players.

However, when summer comes, people will probably have more time to play, and there might be enough people for two simultaneous games...

[Cailín]

I agree with Spawn.

I need add no more. Except that I will be too busy to commit to any game for a while.

[Kath]

I wonder if the lack of commital for Farael's game is due in part to those who want to join lmp's and know that it will be a huge undertaking whatever the role. If the next game in line were simple and not as demanding I think the sign up rate would be higher.

I also think that the WWJ games should continue, as quite often they are the simpler version and allow people like Mith who can't commit to a long name or newbies who aren't confident enough to join a senior game to play.

If we had just the one game there would be people unable to join due to number limits, and if you died first Night and it was a long game that leaves a pretty long gap before you're able to play again, if you are able to play again straight away bearing in mind there may be a queue of those who didn't get in last time and you may feel it unfair to shove them out again.

[Nogrod]

I agree with Kath, and several others. We probably should maintain parallel games, but we should also pay heed for their timing. So not beginning the games simultaneously but preferably overlapping each other, so that the early drop-outs, really wanting to play, could recruit to the other game, and overall, people would have choice to which game they might want to commit themselves.

That said, I would also like to see the TiG games be more complicated / larger etc. as the TigJ games. So there would be something like a basic-game area for newbies like me (and those who just love the basic game), and then the "advanced" game. That should of course not be anything formal or restrictive in any way, not to talk of making grounds for any normative judgements about the betterness of one over the other.

So if Farael's game starts in a few days, I guess Diamond should start recruiting people en suite, but start the real game only after Farael's game is drawing to the end - as is happening now in relation to Valier's TigJ game and Farael's TiG game.

PS. What is the queuing situation in the TiG? In TigJ there are three games on the list: Diamond, Samwise, Nogrod & Thinlomien. If there are no reservations in the TiG after LMP, I think we (me & Lommy) could change our game from TiGJ list to TiG -thread after LMP?

[Kath]

Woah there Nogrod. I'm after lmp.

[Diamond18]

So if Farael's game starts in a few days, I guess Diamond should start recruiting people en suite, but start the real game only after Farael's game is drawing to the end - as is happening now in relation to Valier's TigJ game and Farael's TiG game.

That's how I was planning it. Then while my game is being played, LMP's game would be getting recruits, and as my game finished LMP's game would start, etc. This might not please some who don't like the idea of playing in a game right on the heels of another game, but I think that should be a personal desicion made on their parts rather than something forced on everyone. I don't really see how signing up for a game right after you've been killed bends the rule of not playing in more than one at a time. When you're dead you can't post, you can't PM, you can't play. You're decidedly not in the game.

PS. What is the queuing situation in the TiG? In TigJ there are three games on the list: Diamond, Samwise, Nogrod & Thinlomien. If there are no reservations in the TiG after LMP, I think we (me & Lommy) could change our game from TiGJ list to TiG -thread after LMP?

I think Kath is after LMP.

[Nogrod]

This might not please some who don't like the idea of playing in a game right on the heels of another game, but I think that should be a personal desicion made on their parts rather than something forced on everyone. I don't really see how signing up for a game right after you've been killed bends the rule of not playing in more than one at a time. When you're dead you can't post, you can't PM, you can't play.


I totally agree with Diamond about this (being a person who would like to have played for the last week or so, but were killed the first night by some werecats, and have from that on just waited for the next one to start - which frustratingly hasn't moved a bit forwards, not to say begun...). :D

I understand, that you can't be wholeheartedly in two games simultaneously. That's a good argument, but I guess you could be Gil-Galad, Gandalf or Alcarillo in ten games at the same time... But that's another problem.

[Mithalwen]

I'd love it if you waited a few days, Farael... then I could play!

Regarding the WWJ vs. WW issue...

I think that WWJ games should be played as needed. That is, when there is a surplus of players who can't get into a regular game. In other words, they should not being going on, one after another, as a matter of course, in the same way that the regular games follow each other.

.

I disagree -WWJ is not simply WW overspill it is a alternative - for some of use the only possibility given the way the senior games have gone lately.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

This might not please some who don't like the idea of playing in a game right on the heels of another game, but I think that should be a personal desicion made on their parts rather than something forced on everyone. I don't really see how signing up for a game right after you've been killed bends the rule of not playing in more than one at a time. When you're dead you can't post, you can't PM, you can't play. You're decidedly not in the game.The point, I think, is not if someone has broken a rule or not, but rather what are the consequences of signing up for a parallel game while the original one is still going on.

It's true that when you die in a game, you can't participate in the villagers' discussions anymore, but you can still enjoy the game by reading it. When there was just one game going on at a time, if you got a spot in it, it was great and you did your best to stay alive and commit to playing. Now that there are two simultaneous games, it's not a big deal if you die. On the contrary, if you manage to get yourself killed early, you get to play in two games. All this planning "if I'm dead by then" etc. just seems a bit inconsiderate towards the mod of the game that the player originally joined.

[The Saucepan Man]

All this planning "if I'm dead by then" etc. just seems a bit inconsiderate towards the mod of the game that the player originally joined.I quite agree with that point spawn, and it is one of the reasons that prompted my inittial thought.

But thank you to everyone for your responses. They are just what I was hoping for, as I am certainly not suggesting simply shutting down the WWJ thread without consideration of the matter. Indeed, I am not really suggesting shutting down the WWJ thread at all. My main concern was whether there was enough interest to justify two games at the same time. I rather like the idea of maintaing the WWJ thread as an "overspill".

While I agree that one of the initial purposes of the WWJ thread was for "newbies" to "cut their teeth", that has become less of a factor. Many experienced players now play in the WWJ games, while "newbies" have started out in the "senior" games, generally without too much difficulty.

I also see no reason why the "senior" games should be more complex and the WWJ games less so. I am not sure that this has been the trend. It has really just been up to whoever was modded particular games and their preferences. That said, if games are smaller (in village) size, there probably is good reason to retain scope for two games to run at a time. My personal preference is for smaller less complex games anyway so I would rather see more of both types in both threads.

With regard to modding, I did propose a while back doing away with the modding lists. I think it much better that whoever is around when a game finishes and wants to mod should be able to do so, taking into account those who have expressed a wish to mod previously.

In any event, I have no objection to both threads continuing. Perhaps it is just the unseemly rushes from one game to another that prompted my concerns after all. I do think that a committment to a game should be whole-hearted and for the entirety of that game, as it does seem rather hard on a mod to be talking about the possibility of dying in his or her game in order to be able to play in the next. I don't see the WW craze dying out completely any time soon, so there will always be another game if you miss recruitment for one. That's happened to me a number of times, but I have always managed to tag onto another game without having to wait too long.

Perhaps it's because I have been playing in WW since it started here, but I do think that a little "calmness" and some restraint from wanting to be in every game going may be in order ...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said already. I feel like a lot of us are in difficult schedule positions, but that the enthusiasm is still there.

Perhaps in the future, we could let WWJ peter out in the springtime, but then start it up again in the summer when everyone has enough time on their hands.

This is just a particularly tough time of the year--finals, etc. Actually, for me, this time isn't too bad--my stress level is way down because I have gotten into college, which is a huge thing that I now don't have to worry about.

I just hope we get enough players soon, I've been really excited about this game!

[Diamond18]

It's true that when you die in a game, you can't participate in the villagers' discussions anymore, but you can still enjoy the game by reading it. When there was just one game going on at a time, if you got a spot in it, it was great and you did your best to stay alive and commit to playing. Now that there are two simultaneous games, it's not a big deal if you die. On the contrary, if you manage to get yourself killed early, you get to play in two games. All this planning "if I'm dead by then" etc. just seems a bit inconsiderate towards the mod of the game that the player originally joined.

I guess I don't really see it that way. And if the mod takes it that way, well, you can't control how other people view things. Personally, I like winning, and the longer I can survive in a game, the more it feels like winning. :D Of course, in Val's game I was the Hunter so in order to perform my role I needed to die. Ergo, I had plans for dying. Though, it still drives me crazy to not be able to post anymore. :p But anyway, I think anyone who truly enjoys werewolfing likes to stay alive in a game (though reading your own death scene is fun!) So I can't really agree that this worry about players not caring about the game enough because they know they can join another one, is that big of a deal. Those kind of players aren't really going to be as into werewolf as others are, no matter what. I think it's a fair assessment to say that players such as Nogrod and I signed up for this game as soon as we were dead in our last, because we think werewolf is really fun. Nothing so inconsiderate about that.

When I told Farael I might play, depending on how Valier's game went, I was just letting him know that I had interest in his game. If there was a conflict between the two games, though, Val's game would without a doubt be my first priority. I think that was clear.

Everyone has a different way of approaching the games, and some of us have more time on our hands to devote to them. I can play in one game, express my interest in another, and plan my own at the same time, without feeling overwhelmed. Those who can't balance all those things, shouldn't. But again, it's a personal desicion.

Perhaps it is just the unseemly rushes from one game to another that prompted my concerns after all. I do think that a committment to a game should be whole-hearted and for the entirety of that game, as it does seem rather hard on a mod to be talking about the possibility of dying in his or her game in order to be able to play in the next.

Again, I don't see it as unseemly. One can be committed to playing a game and still acknowledge the fact that, because of how the game works, they might be out of the game before it comes to its conclusion. If you don't enjoy the game enough to do your best, you shouldn't really be playing in any game -- Senior, Junior, one after another, or few and far between. But that's an unrelated matter. ;)

[Nogrod]

In any event, I have no objection to both threads continuing. Perhaps it is just the unseemly rushes from one game to another that prompted my concerns after all. I do think that a committment to a game should be whole-hearted and for the entirety of that game, as it does seem rather hard on a mod to be talking about the possibility of dying in his or her game in order to be able to play in the next.


I think there is a reason for a kind of "double standards" here. I do agree with Sauce and others in thinking, that people should not rush from one game to another.

But then again, there's a kind of difference between people playing: when f.ex. Roa or myself (or Lommy) says, one can't be in wholeheartedly, it means they only post 5-10 posts / day - and having Gil-Galad post more than once / day, would be a miracle. It's not so easy, as quantity making for quality... but most of the time, people posting more are posting substantially, whereas people posting once aDay seem to be those just hanging on.

So, we have different timetables, we have different time-zones, but we also have different dedication to playing the game. So it isn't right to judge people by their willingness to participate on another game as such.

I myself admit having written a very bad post concerninig Valier's game (thinking I would be killed very soon with my tactics of playing, and thence being able to join Farael's game), but that's something is luckily behind now, as the "cats" thought of killing me the first night. I hope, I have learned from this.

I hope also, we all should see the point here: let the people playing wholeheartedly play the game/s (in TiG or TiGJ, one or two games at the time)? If there is clearly a lack of commitment, let us then be critical, and the person her/himself should learn from it.

Everyone should be wise enough to see her / his own limits: not assigning to more games (any games in BD or otherwise) that s/he can manage, but also taking advantage of several games, if there are resources for really playing them... I wouldn't even think of beginning two games simyltaneously, but might consider joining one when another is ending.

Just tact, or good judgement required...

EDIT: X-posted with Diamond: just applauding her post! She's got reason.

[Mithalwen]

[QUOTE=The Saucepan Man]

I also see no reason why the "senior" games should be more complex and the WWJ games less so. I am not sure that this has been the trend. It has really just been up to whoever was modded particular games and their preferences. That said, if games are smaller (in village) size, there probably is good reason to retain scope for two games to run at a time. My personal preference is for smaller less complex games anyway so I would rather see more of both types in both threads.

QUOTE]

WWJ was set up to have games with a maximum of 15 players. This rather lends itself to simpler forms of the game.

[Nogrod]

Btw. Farael!
What's the situation with your game?

I've been too long without one... :)

[JennyHallu]

Yeah!! All this talk of less games is depressing...I haven't played in far too long. I'm having withdrawal symptoms.

[Farael]

Btw. Farael!
What's the situation with your game?

I've been too long without one... :)
Well, I did not want to interrupt the other talk... and also, we still have only 13 players. If you guys want to start now, let me know so (I'll send the roles tomorrow and start on Tuesday afternoon).

[Diamond18]

13 is enough, let's play! *hops up and down*

[Naria]

Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a 'senior' game have so much trouble with getting people to play.

Looks like Valier's game is ending toDay, so I will be able to join in for this one. :D

What kind of village is this again? I need to know so I can have an appropriate occupation.

[JennyHallu]

YAY! 14!

It's an elvish village, Naria!

Roles! We want roles!

[Naria]

Hmmmm, Elvish eh. *Think pretty....pretty.* Hmmm....I will grow the most magnificent flowers for all to enjoy. Known around town as Flora the Beautiful!! :D

So my title will be The grower of magnificent flowers! Not as nice as Flora the Beautiful, but it'll do. :)

[Sleepy Ranger]

Is it too late to join? *Eats an apple.*

[Naria]

Is it too late to join?

I don't think so. It looks to me like Farael needed two more players in order to start and me and you would be the ones that he needs(well as far as player count goes :p ). Btw, how was your apple? :D

[Sleepy Ranger]

I don't think so. It looks to me like Farael needed two more players in order to start and me and you would be the ones that he needs(well as far as player count goes :p ). Btw, how was your apple? :D

Oh how lovely! I suppose that means I'm in as for the apple, lovely as usual. I really don't know why I stopped eating them... oh wait yeah... thats right... *Eats an apple.*

[Naria]

Ok, great!! Now pick an occupation Sleepy. Keep in mind it is an Elvish village....maybe your apples will inspire you :eek: . Hehe, Weirder things have happened!

[Sleepy Ranger]

Ok, great!! Now pick an occupation Sleepy. Keep in mind it is an Elvish village....maybe your apples will inspire you :eek: . Hehe, Weirder things have happened!

Yes, an occupation, I'm getting forgetful in my old age. I shall be your local, everyday uh... apple-barrel! Yes! 'Tis a noble and wonderful occupation that shall bring me much fame, I shall be play as a barrel of apples or at least a tender of such. :) *Eats an apple.*

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*cartwheels*

15! Oh beautiful, perfect number! We finally have 15!

WW withdrawal does wierd things to me... :eek:

[Naria]

Done and done!! Sleepy, I only would wish to be as "old" as you again :p :) !

Farael, if the numbers are ok for you(and if noone wishes to play from Valier's game) it looks like your game is afoot! :D

[Lhunardawen]

Ack! I do hope you figured out that when I pulled out, I pulled Nilp along with me.

Feel free to look for another Lover, Farael. :(

[Celuien]

Ack! I do hope you figured out that when I pulled out, I pulled Nilp along with me.
No Nilp? :( Who will be our resident suicidal villager?
Roles! We want roles!
Roll out the roles? Role roll call? ;):D

[Lhunardawen]

No Nilp? :( Who will be our resident suicidal villager?
Perhaps you can ask Farael to die by suicide? He didn't live up to his role in XIX, anyway. :D

[Farael]

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Glirdan:Very confused wereWOLF hunter (confused as he's faced with wereorcs rather than werewolves)
Kitanna:(still playing? If so thou shall be...) The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples*

*This barrel was made of entwood and thus has a conscience of its own.

Well, we are still in thirteen.... Lhuna, we are through but you shall always have a place in my heart (wish it was as easy to break up with my current girlfriend.... ugh don't get me started)

Tomorrow around 6 PM (give or take a couple hours depending on when my exam is over and what time I get home) I shal PM you your roles, and Day 1 will start on Tuesday. If anyone else wants to join in, feel free to do so up until I post a notice here saying otherwise

By the way, the town's rules:
*We shall try the Shaman role out.... the Shaman chooses whom to dream about, but the dreams go to anyone at random.
*No double-lynches
*No retractable votes (Sorry guys, but I don't like them)
*A ranger
*Two werewolves (Forgot that little word hehehe)

I've decided not to have a Hunter and only two werewolves becasue if not, more than a third of the village would have had some role.... if you want the third werewolf in, it's still debatable. If we get two more people, I'll add a third wolf for sure and perhaps a Hunter.

[Diamond18]

Tomorrow around 6 PM

What time zone would that be?

[Farael]

What time zone would that be?

GMT -6.... 12 AM GMT

[Lhunardawen]

Lhuna, we are through but you shall always have a place in my heart I was hoping the statement would elicit only pity... :( :D :rolleyes:

But I'm content with that "place in [your] heart." Do provide a comfortable couch, though.

Okay, I'm out of here (for the time being).

[Sleepy Ranger]

GMT -6.... 12 AM GMT

I'll have to vote early, hope it isn't too much of a bother.

[JennyHallu]

At least this week, I will NEVER be around towards the beginning of the day. Gah! My evenings this week are shot! And I won't be here Easter Sunday. Maybe late at night. Maybe. I doubt it.

And can Shaman dreams be given to the Shaman, or are they distributed randomly to everybody else, but not to the Shaman?

[Farael]

At least this week, I will NEVER be around towards the beginning of the day. Gah! My evenings this week are shot! And I won't be here Easter Sunday. Maybe late at night. Maybe. I doubt it.

And can Shaman dreams be given to the Shaman, or are they distributed randomly to everybody else, but not to the Shaman?

Oh, they can be given to the Shaman, as they can be given to a Wolf... I'll use the "Random" button in my calculator to make sure it goes to anyone :D

[Nogrod]

I tried a kind of last recruitement at the "ppuuuurrrffect village" -thread... Let's hope someone will still turn out. But 13 players with only two wolves sounds playable too...

Farael:
Are you opening up a new thread for this one, and what will it be called?


= Farael / Today 3.25 AM GMT
Tomorrow around 6 PM (give or take a couple hours depending on when my exam is over and what time I get home) I shal PM you your roles, and Day 1 will start on Tuesday.


6PM, which time? How should we interpret this? Does the game start straight ahead with the day-phase? Immediately as we get our roles? That's fine by me, but just wanted to know...

[Legolas in spandex]

I was told I was invited to a werewolf game again under active topic. Is this it? Please direct me. I'll gladly play.

[Nogrod]

I was told I was invited to a werewolf game again under active topic. Is this it? Please direct me. I'll gladly play.

Looks like the right place... and anyhow, even if this wasn't the one you had been invited, feel free to join. :p (I guess this is the only one starting any day soon)

[JennyHallu]

You only need to tell us what your occupation is, in an elven village. Have you played before?

[Farael]

Farael:
Are you opening up a new thread for this one, and what will it be called?
I'll open a new thread for this game on Tuesday.... the name will probably be in Spanish, given that I can't speak Quenya :p as to what the name will be? I'm yet to decide...




6PM, which time? How should we interpret this? Does the game start straight ahead with the day-phase? Immediately as we get our roles? That's fine by me, but just wanted to know...
Well, I said I'd send the roles today 6 PM which would be night 1. The wolves get to know each other and the Shaman gets to decide whom he'll ask the deities about.

BUT Naria has asked me to delay the beginning of the game 'till Wednesday because she invited some people and wants to give them a chance to reply. I'll PM LMP and see if he minds or not, I don't want to hold his game back any longer if he's (understandably) getting eager.

I'll get back to you all as soon as LMP answers

[Roa_Aoife]

Nogrod said you still needed people to join up on this one. If that's true, sign me up!

[Farael]

Nogrod said you still needed people to join up on this one. If that's true, sign me up!

Yaye! That's fourteen..... you need to choose an occupation Roa, it's an elven village that shall be infested by wereorcs

[Nogrod]

Yaye! That's fourteen..... you need to choose an occupation Roa, it's an elven village that shall be infested by wereorcs

With Legolas in spandex also added, aren't we making 15 - or am I counting wrong?

Good to be playing again...

[Farael]

eep, sorry I missed that one... thanks Nogrod!

[Roa_Aoife]

A role in an Elven village? Hmm...

I shall be an aspiring ballad writer! (White Snake, eat your heart out.)

[Caranlondien]

An aspiring ballad writer and an aspiring harpist? This is too perfect...

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

*dances again* There are 15 of us, the time zone is perfect, hip hip hooray! :D I can't wait.

...Is it Wednesday yet?

[Farael]

Alright, we have an OK from LMP... game starts on Wednesday. I might be a little late with the handing out of roles, but I should have just enough time. The player's list so far:

Caranlondien: aspiring harpist
JennyHallu: Doomsday prophet
Nogrod: unemployed barber.
Grendelien: village whittler
Findëasëa: paleoelfropologist
Celuien:lampwright
Zali: stringer-of-bows
Diamond: Inept Jewel Smith
Dancing Spawn...: a merchant
Glirdan:Very confused wereWOLF hunter (confused as he's faced with wereorcs rather than werewolves)
Kitanna:(still playing? If so thou shall be...) The town's gate-keeper
Naria:The grower of magnificent flowers
Sleepy A barrel of apples*
Legolas in spandex:For now he shall be Legolass (A movie-Legolast impersonator) unless he gives me another role
Roa_Aoife aspiring ballad writer

We are 15 so I'll add another wereorc.... if we get 16+ I'll also add the Hunter.

[littlemanpoet]

.... Werewolf sign up for a brief announcement ...

...due to the good graces of Farael, who has kindly given me permission to make a request.

Ya see, I'm trying to write some kills and lynchings for my upcoming game and I'm having a devil of a time without the inspiration of having actual players in mind. So....

I am now officially taking volunteers for Tol-in-Gaurhoth: Dueling Wizards.

It's an early Third Age seaside town along the coastland between the Ice Bay of Forochel and Forlindon. They're educated northerners, so pick a medieval occupation. Also, pick whether you want to be a gammer, a parent, a young eligible, or a child.

Please PM me to let me know you want to play so that we don't further interrupt Farael's game. Thanks!

And now, back to your regularly scheduled Werewolf sign-up.....

(Thanks again, Farael buddy!)

[Diamond18]

Ah ha! I was wondering why I didn't have a PM from you. :p ;)

[Legolas in spandex]

Alrighty, I'm joining, now how does one go about choosing an occupation??

[Farael]

Alrighty, I'm joining, now how does one go about choosing an occupation??

Well, I took the freedom of assigning you an occupation.... if you want to be something else, let me know before we start the game and I'll change it.

[Legolas in spandex]

Well, I took the freedom of assigning you an occupation.... if you want to be something else, let me know before we start the game and I'll change it.
okay, am I going to be PM'd about my role or what?

[Farael]

okay, am I going to be PM'd about my role or what?
your role will be PM'd to you, that is whether you are a wereorc, shaman, ranger or just an innocent villager.

your occupation right now is to be a Movie-Legolas impersonator, sounds good?

[JennyHallu]

*looks over roster*

*sees aspiring songwriter*

:eek:

*puts in earplugs and hides in corner*

[Farael]

Alright, inscription is closed... sorry Naria, but I don't want to wait any longer, I've waited enough!! Roles for the werewolves, Shaman and Ranger will be PM'd now

If you did not get a role PM'd, assume you are an Ordo. I will confirm it to you tonight. If you mention ANYTHING about not being PM'd in this or any other thread you shall be disqualified from the game, be aware

Having said that, Wereorcs can PM each other as soon as they get their roles, and the Shaman can PM me his nightly pick. To be nice, the first pick will go to the Shaman, the others will be random.

Having said that, I'll open the game thread tonight.

[Grendelien]

Maybe all the musically-inclined ones (are there still two?) should write an anthem for our elven village.

[Legolas in spandex]

your role will be PM'd to you, that is whether you are a wereorc, shaman, ranger or just an innocent villager.

your occupation right now is to be a Movie-Legolas impersonator, sounds good?

Haha! sounds fantastic, okay, okay, I'll choose this. This will be my occupation!

[Farael]

Alright, the game is now open for posting.... sorry Innocent Villagers, I have not PM'd you your roles just yet. And I won't.

ANYONE WHO DID NOT GET A ROLE PM'D IS AN INNOCENT VILLAGER. If you are in doubt about your role, PM me.

[Celuien]

Legolas: I see you're online! If you hurry, you can make the end of day 1 on the game here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12765).

And, please, remember to switch to invisible mode. I shouldn't be able to see you here...

[Legolas in spandex]

what?

[Legolas in spandex]

Oh.....(sees now.) Though I must say that I do not get the 1 at the end of the day thing.

[Roa_Aoife]

Dude, the game started 24 hours ago. Day 1 is now over. In 24 hours Day 2 starts. Make sure you're there.

[Celuien]

Oh.....(sees now.) Though I must say that I do not get the 1 at the end of the day thing.
The 1 just means day phase #1 of the game.

Anyway, invisible mode is under Quick links -> Edit Options.
EDIT: never mind that last part, I see you found it.

See you in day #2.

[Nogrod]

See you in day #2.

Meaning: a bit less than 24 hours from now...

But these things happen - and think of the best: you're alive still as we didn't lynch you! :cool:

Come to join the game the next day... otherwise you'll be a goner - not by us, but by the Mod, I guess?

[Farael]

Indeed, I'm being leniant as Legolas is a newcomer to the WW (or WO) world, but no posting and no voting for a day may mean death. OR it may not. Or it may mean an embarassing part on my death write up. Or it may mean all of the above at the same time. Or something else I failed to mention :D

[Nogrod]

Farael!

It was a nice death scene you gave us! :D

[Roa_Aoife]

1000 Reader, you can't discuss the game in this thread. All accusations are in game only. And this is the discussion thread. We don't need a new one. Please edit out your accusations.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Alright, I just wanted to know if you needed anything in case this got cluttered between wereorcs and wizards.

(Where are people who don't play supposed to leave their comments? We can't in game and we can't here, so can we talk at all?)

[Glirdan]

Unfortunately, no, you cannot. You have to leave all comments until the end of the game. Then you can go and say things. As for the cluttering of this thread, well, we don't need another one...yet.

[Nogrod]

(Where are people who don't play supposed to leave their comments? We can't in game and we can't here, so can we talk at all?)

Glirdan got it right.

But you have a chance to make yourself heard by joining the next game. That should be Diamond's game at TiGJ -thread. Just go in there, and enter yourself to the game!

PS: Glirdan: I'm so sorry about your fate, man!

[Farael]

It happens to be my sister's birthday and even though I will MOST LIKELY be home... unlike closing off the day, I need to have the night kill announced before the conversation can start. So I'm looking for someone who knows will be here tomorrow around 6 PM CT, 11 PM GMT to start the day if I'm not around. Same thing will be necessary on Tuesday, as I have an exam and then I'm volunteering until Seven, but it's not as urgent because the day would start two hours late at the most... and that's not so terrible yet tomorrow I might not get home 'till around 10ish, 11ish so that'd be a little more complicated.

In any case, what i mean is

NEED A VOLUNTEER FOR TOMORROW.

[Nogrod]

Just to let you know.

I have an early wake up tomorrow (6AM), and as the game starts normally 2AM here, I will understandably be sleeping around that time...

Everything being ok., I'll be with you before the halfway of the DAY.

PS. Hopefully Farael has managed to get things right...

[Diamond18]

Hey, question, did Folwren or Farael write my death?

My death... *sigh* I knew something awful had happened when I saw my rep screen in user CP. :rolleyes: :p

[Farael]

Hey, question, did Folwren or Farael write my death?

My death... *sigh* I knew something awful had happened when I saw my rep screen in user CP.
Folwren did, although you can rep me for it if you want :D I'll make more comments (as with everyone else) once the game is over, but good game! and bad game! and so-so game! I'm not letting on how I think you played :D

[Caranlondien]

Just verifying, I had computer problems and have been shouting nonsense words furiously, just managed to get back on...

[Sleepy Ranger]

Sorry I didn't vote! Certain obstacles kept me away from the computer till now! Sorry! :(

[Farael]

Sorry I didn't vote! Certain obstacles kept me away from the computer till now! Sorry! :(
Well, given that loosing a villager right now would be a clear disadvantage to the villagers (as there isn't MANY people left anymore) I couldn't really kill you for not voting (Gamewise). And also, given that some "obstacles" kept ME away from the computer, I'd be a great hipocryte if I did.

So it's all good, you are contributing to the game so I think that in spite of my earlier pronouncement that a non-vote would mean being kicked from the game, everyone will agree that you more than deserve to stay :)

That is, everyone but Azaelia who is the last remaining wolf.

[Diamond18]

I know the game hasn't technically ended yet, but I can't resist:

Roa and Caran, I will have my revenge! Someday, someway... bwah ha ha ha! (Seriously, why did you have to kill me so early, whhhhhhhhyy? :p)

You know I've witnessed four werewolf games so far (played in three) and the village has won every one of them!

[littlemanpoet]

Greetings one and all!

With the official close of Tol-in-Gaurhoth XX, recruitment for Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards begins. This game will not begin until Diamond's WWJ game has finished.

Kuruharan will be my sub-moderator for the good team.
Boromir88 will be my sub-moderator for the evil team.

I'm hoping for at least 20 players but I'm shooting for 30.

Each player will have a relationship as well as an occupation. This will make my writing of your deaths a little more interesting for me, and I hope for you.

Rules for Dueling Wizards Werewolf:

(These rules have been edited since they were originally posted: the edits are underlined and italicized, and replace the original text.)

There are two wizards, and no other gifted at the beginning of the game, which must have a minimum of 20 players, and an arbitrary maximum (first time) of 30. The two wizard roles are assigned from a list of volunteers who are willing to play the roles.

The two wizards don't know who each other are. One is evil, one is good.

Evil Wizard: each Night the evil wizard picks a villager to curse as a werewolf, or werebear (only one), or cobbler (only one). The new werewolf is immediately informed and the mod requests a kill choice, which the werewolf provides by the end of the 24 hours. On the first Night of the game, the Evil Wizard chooses three werewolves; thereafter s/he chooses one per Night.

The werewolves do not know each other's identity because while they are werewolves at Night, they cannot detect the identities underlying the curses. When there are multiple werewolves, and they make differing kill choices, the person with the most werewolf "votes" is killed. If there is a tie, the sub-mod for the evil wizard PMs back to each werewolf about the others' choices, and serves as a go-between until the werewolves have come to a majority choice.

Note: Werewolves do not PM each other and therefore cannot debate with each other; thus, they are not going to find out each others' identities. If in some odd circumstance, a werewolf gets the most votes for the werewolf kill, the evil wizard has the right to overrule the choice. If in some even odder circumstance, the werewolves choose the evil wizard as their kill, the evil wizard of course has the right to overrule their choice.

If the evil wizard chooses a gifted villager to curse, the gifted villager loses the gift but does not turn into a werewolf ... this time. The good wizard is informed of the loss of the gifting.

If the evil wizard picks the good wizard at Night, he is informed that he has discovered the good wizard, and has the option from then on to call out the good wizard to battle during any Day.

The evil wizard may choose to inform one or more werewolves who one or more other werewolves are; but this is a risky option and should be used with great care, considering the possible consequences.

The evil wizard is allowed to lie to his were-creatures.

Good Wizard: each Night the good wizard picks a villager to scry.

1. If the good wizard scries the evil wizard, the good wizard is informed of that, and can call out the evil wizard to battle during any Day, which results in the death of both wizards.

2. If the good wizard scries a werewolf, the werewolf is turned back into an innocent by the good wizard's power.

3. If the good wizard finds an innocent, the good wizard has the option of turning that innocent into a gifted, the choices being seer, ranger, and hunter. If a gifted is de-gifted by the evil wizard's curse, the good wizard may assign that gift to another. If a gifted is killed, the gift may be assigned to another innocent.

The good wizard may choose to inform one or more gifteds who one or more of the gifteds are.

The gifteds know who the good wizard is; the good wizard may PM the gifteds during the Day, and the gifteds may PM the good wizard during the Day. They do not know who each other is unless the good wizard tells them. (why wouldn't the good wizard tell the gifteds who each other is?)

The good wizard is allowed to mis-inform and/or withhold information from his gifteds.

The evil wizard and werewolves win when the werewolves equal or exceed the number of innocents. The villagers and good wizard win when there is no evil wizard left, and no werewolves left.

There are no shirriffs.

If the good wizard and the evil wizard choose the same previously innocent villager on the same Night, the two wizards discover each other's identity by means of the contest. Since the evil wizard still wants a werewolf, the good wizard must choose whether to let the villager die as a casualty of the wrenching experience of the contest, or let the villager survive and become a werewolf..

Just to be perfectly clear: a wizard battle always results in the death of both wizards, and may only happen during the Day.

There is a vote for lynching every Day. If a wizard is voted to be lynched, he will be lynched but cannot die that way, and is thus forced to declare himself, and the opposing wizard can call him/her out for a wizard battle. The wizard cannot be killed by lynching; instead, nobody dies that Day.

If the evil wizard dies, the werewolves are informed of each other's identity, and revert from there on to traditional werewolf group dynamics. If a werebear has been created by the evil wizard, that player reverts to being on his or her own team.

Each Day and Night will be 24 hours; if such a time frame proves somehow unworkable, it may be changed (with notice of course!) during the game.

Current sign-up list:

1 Diamond18 ~ wife ~ Battledore Maker -- Made the wicker beaters used on clothes & carpets to beat out the dust.

2 Celuien ~ young eligible maiden ~ Healer and Cupper

3 Caranlondien ~ young eligible maiden ~ Sled-Team Driver

4 Roa Aoife ~ wife and mother ~ __________

5 Nogrod ~ gaffer ~ ___________

6 Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant ~ young eligible maiden ~ Baker

7 Kath ~ young eligible maiden ~ minstrel

8 Thinlómien ~ child ~ little girl who steals other children's candy

9 Lhunardawn ~ wife (no children) ~ jeweler

[Glirdan]

I'll play. This is going to be interesting. Really interesting. I shall be a young bachelor and will be the town carpenter.

[Diamond18]

Ooooooooh, this is going to be fuuuuuun fun fun. I know I'm signed up already but I didn't even know the rules before so I had to comment. :D

One thing -- did I say I didn't want any children? I don't remember. At any rate, I'll leave it up to you to give me kids or not. I just noted that Roa and Lhuna had specific mentions about children and I didn't.

[Roa_Aoife]

That sounds awesome! Are we going with the traditonal village type roles?

[Valier]

I would like to sign up!!! I have started to read over the rules and this sounds like fun!!!! I am not sure what occupation to pick yet, but I will post one shortly.

[Sleepy Ranger]

You can count me in! I shall be a young introversive extroversive bachelor (think along the lines of Lennon) and as for occupation, I shall be a guitarist and song-writer, if it does you good. :)

[Kitanna]

Sounds quite interesting. I would like to sign up for this.

[Celuien]

3. If the good wizard finds an innocent, the good wizard has the option of turning that innocent into a gifted, the choices being seer, ranger, and hunter. If a gifted is de-gifted by the evil wizard's curse, the good wizard may assign that gift to another. If a gifted is killed, the gift may no longer be assigned.
Can a gift be assigned to only one innocent at a time, or can the good wizard potentially make a village full of Seers?

[Sleepy Ranger]

Can a gift be assigned to only one innocent at a time, or can the good wizard potentially make a village full of Seers?

I'm pretty sure what Elempi is trying to say is that, if the evil wizard de-gifts a gifted only then can the good wizard give that gift to anyone but if the gifted dies then the gift dies with him. Please correct me if I'm wrong. :)

[Celuien]

Makes sense. I just wasn't sure if the option to transform applied every night (including after filling one in each of the gifted spots), or just until all three gifted spots were filled. If that makes sense.

[Gurthang]

I'm thinking about signing up, but finals are coming up soon, so I really shouldn't. Put me on as tentative... if you can't get 20 without me (unlikely) then I'll play.

Also, since it's basically good wizard versus bad wizard, the Werebear is for all practical purposes no longer a wild card, but is actually on the wolves team.

I don't know, this game seems heavily favored towards the evil wizard. Especially since the good can only get three gifteds and the evil can have a comparatively unlimited amount.

Also, what should happen if the werewolves (or werebear) choose the good wizard?


Lastly, is there a 'list' for upcoming mods? I'm really wanting to mod one this summer, so I guess I should attach myself to the lineup.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Lastly, is there a 'list' for upcoming mods? I'm really wanting to mod one this summer, so I guess I should attach myself to the lineup.

As would I, I'll mod the one after Gurthang.

[Gurthang]

As would I, I'll mod the one after Gurthang.

I'm not sure there is actually a list, and I'm certainly not saying I'm next after LMP. I'm thinking more mid June, actually. I just want to get my name out there in case a sudden onslaught of mods suddenly comes about. You'll probably get a game in before I do, Sleepy.

[Sleepy Ranger]

I'm not sure there is actually a list, and I'm certainly not saying I'm next after LMP. I'm thinking more mid June, actually. I just want to get my name out there in case a sudden onslaught of mods suddenly comes about. You'll probably get a game in before I do, Sleepy.

As for me, if possible I'd prefer getting a game some time in May, if not then I doubt I can mod till mid-July.

[Celuien]

I think Kath is after LMP. But I'm not 100% sure.

[Diamond18]

Kath definitely is after LMP.

[Caranlondien]

This looks awesome... I can't wait! :D

[Firefoot]

Oh, sign me up! I've been waiting for this - glad I didn't miss it or something!

I'll be a (rather tomboyish) young maiden, engaged to a stuffy, boring, but rich jerk I don't like (arranged marriage, obviously). I'll be an artist.

I should let everyone know up front though that I won't be here from the evening on May 5-noon May 7. Not sure how this would affect things.

[Diamond18]

I'll be a (rather tomboyish) young maiden, engaged to a stuffy, boring, but rich jerk I don't like (arranged marriage, obviously). I'll be an artist.

LOL. I think LMP was planning on making us players related to each other. :p So who wants to sign up to be a rich jerk? :D

[Alcarillo]

Count me in! This seems fun and chaotic. :D

As for a job, I'm either a retired old sea captain (widower?) or a young man-at-arms (bachelor). I haven't decided yet.

[Lhunardawen]

A lot of eligible young maidens...

Guys, go get 'em! :D

[Glirdan]

Actually, I'll change what I want to be. I would like to be a child who has a giant crush on Kath.

[Roa_Aoife]

I think I'll be simple in my role this game and be a weaver.

[littlemanpoet]

That sounds awesome! Are we going with the traditonal village type roles?
Yes. The setting is early Third Age, so all the technology and arts of the Elves have been passed on to the Numenoreans. This is far in the northwest of Third Age Middle Earth, and therefore rather far away from centers of civilization. However, prophecies have foretold of werewolvish evil, and so villagers from time to time have forayed out into the known world and collected tomes, scrolls, and books filled with lore; through these things the village has passed from being a mere fishing village on the edge of the Sea to a mildly renaissanced village with limited trade to the civilized world. So as to occupations, medieval.

Celuien, The good wizard can only have one seer, one ranger, and one hunter at a time.

Gurthang, I've done 5 dry runs of this game and the modifications I've just edited into the rules have shown to create a level playing field.

IMPORTANT: If you want to be one of the two wizards, please volunteer by sending me a PM. If you volunteer in public, you will NOT be considered.

1 Diamond ~ wife (no children) ~ Battledore Maker -- Made the wicker beaters used on clothes & carpets to beat out the dust.

2 Celuien ~ eligible young maiden ~ Healer and Cupper

3 Caranlondien ~ eligible young maiden ~ Sled-Team Driver

4 Roa Aoife ~ wife and mother ~ weaver

5 Nogrod ~ gaffer ~

6 Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant ~ eligible young maiden ~ Baker

7 Kath ~ eligible young maiden ~ minstrel

8 Thinlómien ~ child ~ little girl who steals other children's candy

9 Lhunardawen ~ wife (no children) ~ jeweler


10 Glirdan ~ child ~ with gaint crush on Kath (occupation aplenty!)

11 Valier ~ ~

12 Sleepy Ranger ~ ~ lutist & bard

13 Kitanna ~ ~

14 Firefoot ~ tomboyish young maiden (engaged to stuffy, boring, rich jerk ~ artist

15 Alcarillo ~ ~ old retired sea captain

Gurthang?

[Diamond18]

A lot of eligible young maidens...

Guys, go get 'em! :D

Yeah. And it looks like you, Roa, and I are going to be wives without husbands. :p

[Lhunardawen]

Elempi: Lhunardawn, eh? :p

(That's almost an anagram! :D :rolleyes: )

[Roa_Aoife]

You know, they are a lot of wives and no husbands so far.... Are we all widows? Divorcees? Is this Massechussettes? (Please take no offense to my political humor)

[Glirdan]

Lmp, I changed my mind on what I wanted to be. Check my post above.