Password

[Pervinca Took]

Pity Numenor doesn't have a namesake beginning with U.

[Pervinca Took]

I have a dwarf-connected word beginning with U!

UNCOOKED.

(The kind of dwarves that trolls hate, and which Thorin's company remained).

:D

[Huinesoron]

:D I love it. Next time...!

The 'unique gift' is a name which was given to the 'slender bough'; you are seeking its meaning (in English, as it happens).

hS

[Nerwen]

What about HEWER OF CAVES, translating Felagund? It would be "unique" as the only Dwarven name given to an Elf. The "slender bough" part might then be a play on Fin(e)rod.

[Pervinca Took]

Or might it be a branch of a family tree that we're looking for?

[Huinesoron]

Khazad-dum - Before the blackness, seek their doom.
Hewer of Caves - The slender bough bears a unique gift, but what meaning does it hold?
Uzbad Khazaddumu - An elder claimed this eldest title, and sought the eldest's crown, but the eldest's servant ended him.
Zirak-Zigil - Here ended the endless; what did the makers make it?
Durin - Seven times named, but twice unnamed; what name is mine but never was?
-Ul - A son full-grown bears his father's name in full.
Lahgaza [Agazhal] - Fall back, o masked one, and let the French striplings take the field.

[Theme: Khuzdul]

Dingdingding! Spot on (though I was thinking 'thin rod' in an Essex accent, where 'th' becomes 'f'). The actual gift was Felak-gundu, which was transliterated as Felagund. And that, I believe, is your lot.

If I'm reading the rules right, it's now Pervinca's turn, for getting the password, Khuzdul, back when only one clue had been solved?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I'd actually forgotten that the final answer starts with H, not U!

[Pervinca Took]

Congratulations on your first password, Huinesoron! :) I did post these congratulations before, but I chose quote instead of edit when trying to copy my clues to put in the first answer, and ended up overwriting my words. Not the first time I've done this.

Also, neat work, Nerwen!

1. March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
3. Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
5. Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
6. Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
9. Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
10. Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant stuff.

[Huinesoron]

#1 surely has to be Marjoram, the merry passenger/messenger/mariner's perfume of choice. It has the two rams (one suitably mirrored), plus... Jo, I guess? She's definitely female, though what she has to do with either March or marching I'm not sure.

hS

[Huinesoron]

And for #6, the article 'a' + p.p. for the signature points me at Apple (suitable for throwing at certain Breelanders). I'm not sure how 'LE' becomes a bad pianist, except that L isn't a key on the piano...

(I run into p.p. at work a lot.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
3. Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
5. Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
9. Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
10. Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant stuff.

Indeed - the mariner's perfume of choice, alongside Lynx Africa and Old Spice (I mean cardamom and lavender).

Jo March is the second eldest of the March girls in Louisa M Alcott's 'Little Women' and the three sequels, and generally considered the heroine/most closely drawn character, of the first two books at least. It's a fictional surname.

EDIT FOR SECOND CLUE GUESSED (near enough):

Remember that fruit can be plural, or at least 'uncountable.' The answer is APPLES, so you were near enough. A + PP is as you say. As for LES - are you from the UK? Just as Tommy Cooper skilfully performed magic tricks badly, there was a comedian who made bad piano-playing a major part of his act: Les Dawson.

[Huinesoron]

I am indeed from the UK, but clearly not very cultured! I do vaguely recognise both names, though.

#3 - the MUTT is switched ON (like a lit bulb) to get Mutton yesterday, Mutton today, and blimey if it don't look like Mutton again tomorrer.

EDIT: For #9, is Smeagol by any chance just RABBITting on about his Precious again?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
5. Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
10. Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

(And Gollum provided the rabbits which Sam stewed, of course).

[Galadriel55]

I wonder if 5 is just Roast.

[Pervinca Took]

You are very, very close. What was the only thing Merry and Pippin could offer for dessert in Isengard?

[Galadriel55]

Ah, Toast then.

[Huinesoron]

Well, I had to check the book, but for #10 I guess that Sam's SAGE-like wisdom helped him cook a lovely stew?

(I really want to suggest mead for #8, taking the 'Saint' and the initial 'Mary' away from Miss Marple's home of St. Mary Mead, but I feel that's too much of a stretch. I can't come up with any cathedrals that work for the clue, though; I shall have to ponder some more.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
4. Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
TOAST: Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
SAGE: Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

TOAST and SAGE are correct.

Sam asks Gollum to find a few bay-leaves, thyme and sage. When Gollum refuses, Sam goes to find some herbs himself.

Your process is correct for number 8, but it's a rarer saint than Saint Mary. It might even be a fictional one. At any rate, he gives his name to both a fictional village in a nineteenth century novel and a fictional cathedral from an old situation comedy.

[Galadriel55]

Is #4 Salt? Can't fit it in cryptically, but Sam did have a precious pinch of salt hidden away all the way at the bottom.

Edit: Oh, endure = last, scrambled. Makes sense literally and cryptically. :D

[Pervinca Took]

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
2. Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
SALT: Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
TOAST: Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
7. Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
8. Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
SAGE: Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

SALT is correct.

Just to remind you, this is quite a silly password. Keep on guessing the clues, and let the password reveal itself, perhaps? I'm not saying don't try and guess it. Just don't expect it to be a sensible answer. ;)

Just to be fair, clue 2 refers to a stock phrase which AFAIK is only used in the UK and with a northern accent. A phrase born in industrial times, which remains in the language as a sort of metaphorical saying.

[Huinesoron]

#2: Okay, so elven rope is as smooth as milk, according to master simile-smith Sam Gamgee, but, be honest: is there really trouble a't'mill up north, or did you just get that from Monty Python? :D

And... look, on #7, four o'clock is tea-time. I can't come up with any way to work the 'jumbled' in, but is the answer simply tea?

#8 I feel has to be a drink ('siphonable'), but my cultural knowledge isn't producing any cathedrae or sainted villages that fit. What do people drink in Middle-earth? Wine from Dorwinion, miruvor from Imladris, beer (or possibly ale) from pubs... various draughts (orc, ent)... honey, I suppose, and I imagine Beorn brings out either honey-wine or mead... none of those jump out as being initially-changed saint's names (so obviously none of them is an actual guess - I'm just throwing out ideas for other people to work with. Teamwork! Ish.)

hS

[Huinesoron]

Oh. It's not a siphonable drink - it's suckable Eggs[es]. And a bit of Googling shows up Saint Ogg's, from The Mill on the Floss. The sainted Ogg does appear to be fictional, though hilariously there is a Lincolnshire care home in the town St. Ogg's was supposedly based on, named after them.

Assuming all three guesses are right, the password comes out as Mmm... 's taters (precious). I'm now feeling the urge to conjure up a meal using the 11 foods and drinks named...

hS

[Galadriel55]

If I'm right about the password being Mmms Taters, we're looking for a drink that starts with E. Ent-draught?

Edit - cross posted. Nice!

[Pervinca Took]

MARJORAM: March girl trapped between mirrored ewes’ mates yields substance fit to perfume a gondola.
MILK: Place of clichéd strife changes ending after an early start. Soft as elven-rope, it is!
MUTTON: Dog lit for a chewy, monotonous troll-feast.
SALT: Endure (though shaken) it did, at the bottom of Sam’s pack!
TOAST: Isengard pudding and Denethor’s fate.
APPLES: Article signed on behalf of bad pianist yields fruit (possibly resembling Laurelin’s?)
TEA: Projected time – jumbled – which yields this – is four o’clock.
EGGS: Fabled cathedral (or village?) loses consecration and is initially changed for siphonable comestibles.
RABBIT: Endless chatter! Gollum provides this.
SAGE: Wise was Sam to seek this fragrant thing.

Password: MIM'S TATERS.
Theme: Food, herbs/seasoning and drink.

In the 'milk' clue, 'after an early start' means that the answer begins one letter before the letter that forms part of the password. You may remember that I've done this before, except I think that on prior occasions (can't remember if it was once or twice), I entered the answer backwards but *still* had to use the second (or in terms of the original word, the penultimate) letter as the one that featured in the password. In those cases, I indicated the two things with something like 'runs back but overshoots by one place.'

I read 'Unfinished Tales' in full recently (I only read certain sections when I was younger, and just skimmed the others). MIM has a bag of roots that he uses as food. I decided I could use poetic licence to make a password from them, made up of food and drink answers. (He won't say what they actually are. 'Mim's Taters' is as good a term as any).

Although neither of you quite guessed the exact password, it would have revealed itself anyway once I had entered all the answers and bolded the appropriate letters.

So I guess it's over to Huinesoron again, as he posted the nearly-right password first (just).

P.S. Gollum did indeed teach his grandmother to suck eggs (only a metaphor outside of The Hobbit, I think! But it seems literal there).

P.P.S. Tea is an anagram of ETA, short for estimated time of arrival (hence projected time), and the ETA of TEA at Bilbo's is four o'clock.

P.P.P.S. 'Trouble at t'mill,' indeed. Didn't know the Pythons had used the expression. Refers to workers rising up against their oppressors, I think.

P.P.P.P.S. St Ogg's is indeed the small town/village where Maggie Tulliver lives in 'The Mill On The Floss.' It is also the name of the fictional cathedral in 'All Gas And Gaiters,' starring Derek Nimmo. It ran on both radio and TV (late 60's/early 70's). On TV, St Albans Cathedral was used for St Ogg's.

P.P.P.P.P.S. I'm not the first to do a 'food and drink' password. Morsul the Dark did one, with 'Meat & Drink' as the password.

P.P.P.P.P.P.S. I think that's now two more post-scripts than Gandalf used.

[Huinesoron]

I'm happy to pass the next one to Galadriel, for the sake of six minutes or whatever; I was working on a concept that didn't quite pan out, so.

Monty Python: "I don't know! I was just told to come in here and say there was trouble at the mill, I didn't expect some kind of Spanish Inquisition!"

I adore Mim's Taters as a term; in the unlikely event that I ever have cause to discuss them, I shall definitely pilfer it.

And hilariously enough, Gollum's eggses was the first place I ran into that saying! I was quite confused when I encountered it in the wild; I had nooo idea what it meant. (I've since improved, fear not.)

That was an extremely fun password; thank you.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

And hilariously enough, Gollum's eggses was the first place I ran into that saying! I was quite confused when I encountered it in the wild; I had nooo idea what it meant.

Me too! (Although I've never really been into the wild). (My mum used the expression once or twice, but it was in The Hobbit that I first encountered it).

Glad you enjoyed the password, Huinesoron.

Galadriel, are you still too busy to make a password?

[Galadriel55]

If I make the password, it would take me several days as I'm still pretty busy and don't have one ready. Maybe I should follow Pervinca's example and pre-make some. But in the meantime I think Hui should post if he has time/ideas ready.

[Huinesoron]

1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes came together in a grand symphony.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
6. Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's a bit pathetic, eh?
8. Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

It is only fair to note that #5 is the only pure straight clue of the lot; the rest are cryptic to one extent or another.

hS

[Galadriel55]

6. Ithilien? I can get Ithil from Mithril.

[Huinesoron]

Not Ithilien. Mithril here refers to the metal, rather than the word itself (if that makes sense).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Great to have another poster hooked on cryptic clues ... especially when they bring their own style of passwords to the thread. :)

A tentative guess of EAMBAR for 8. ER for hesitation AB for Able Seaman (I know my Arthur Ransome, even though I've never understood why AB is the abbreviation).

Perhaps there's a kind of grease called MA or AM?

(I did say it was a *tentative* guess). :D

On the subject of grease, HIRILONDE doesn't quite contain all of LARD. (How very daren't it).

[Pervinca Took]

1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes came together in a grand symphony.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
6. Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's a bit pathetic, eh?
8. Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

It is only fair to note that #5 is the only pure straight clue of the lot; the rest are cryptic to one extent or another.

hS

Quoting the puzzle to get it on the current page.

I wonder if 7 might be ALE - a drink (as miruvor is) and contains most of the word 'lame' for 'a bit pathetic.'

[Huinesoron]

No to all the above. You're on the right track with your effort at #7, though!

As for #8, the boat is a red herring; it's just there so the sailor has something to grease.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

8. Eriol? (Er + oil).

3. Ainur?

7 isn't just miruvore, is it?

[Morsul the Dark]

Doubt this right but it almost fits. :p

6. Hobbit- Bilbo and Frodo in Mithril, Pippin was almost tossed in a well small region IE A bit.

[Huinesoron]

8. Eriol? (Er + oil).

Correct! Eriol the mariner, one of the many 'the mariner's in the Legendarium.

3. Ainur?

7 isn't just miruvore, is it?

Sadly neither of these are right, though 'Ainur' was a deliberate red herring. There is a cryptic component to #3.

Doubt this right but it almost fits. :p

6. Hobbit- Bilbo and Frodo in Mithril, Pippin was almost tossed in a well small region IE A bit.

... I really like this answer, but sadly it isn't correct, or even anywhere close. It's an excellent answer, though.

1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes came together in a grand symphony.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
6. Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's a bit pathetic, eh?
Eriol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

That was my concern with Ainur - that it was a straight answer.

If the symphony is a musical one, it could be the Rohirrim (the blowing of their horns) or the dwarves making music after tea at Bilbo's (can't think of any others).

I'm inclined to think it's a *metaphorical* symphony and *metaphorical* tunes, though.

Two ideas (probably both wrong):

1. Various people set out alone for Rivendell, and met and gave their accounts ('sang their tunes') at the 'great symphony' that was the Council of Elrond.

2. Many people individually shouted praise for the Ringbearers on the Field of Cormallen, and it mingled into a great symphony.

[Pervinca Took]

Could 7 be MEAD? This is more like miruvor than ale, but also contains three letters of 'lame' for 'a bit pathetic.'

[Huinesoron]

#3: Sorry, no. It may be worth ignoring the symphony part and focussing on what they were before they joined together.

#7: Still not there, but still in the right general concept. I originally planned to make the clue say 'a bit wet', but changed it at the last minute (I'm honestly not sure if this will help or hinder...).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

If the Misty Mountains curve around at some point and kind of create 2 walls, each either side of some woodland ... might that happen in EREGION?

Need to consult a map.

It could also occur in Numenor, the only other place to have mithril (unless there is any in the Uttermost West), but I don't think we're told whereabouts in Numenor it is.

[Huinesoron]

There has to be mithril in Aman, because:

A ship then new they built for him/Of mithril and of elven-glass

But in this case, 'mithril (well, almost)' is part of the cryptic side of the clue. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

You said it's the metal, not the letters in the word 'mithril' that we need, though?

There is Lothlorien, by the SILVERlode?

[Huinesoron]

I did, and 'silver' is along the right lines (but the wrong metal).

But it's not Lothlorien.

hS

PS: It may be relevant to know that I'm an analytical chemist by trade.

[Pervinca Took]

There's platinum, but AFAIK they don't have it in Middle-earth, or mithril is a sort of equivalent of it.

So ... how about a metal having one of mithril's qualities ... I think it was (or the metal made from it was) as hard as STEEL.

I wonder if we're looking for a double wall of spears or swords ... in which case it could perhaps be the GLADDEN FIELDS?

[Huinesoron]

Hmm, on researching, platinum actually seems very similar to mithril. Might be overly-malleable, though. Also not what I'm thinking of.

The only straight part of #6 is 'region of fair woodlands'. [Goes off and reads the Wikipedia article on cryptic crosswords] Also don't assume I'm aware of any regular conventions on how to make clues. ^_^

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe we're looking for 2 steel gates. (Gondolin has too many, and AFAIK no wood).

Or somewhere between the Iron Hills?

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid you're currently on the wrong landmass. :) I also don't think steel or iron can be considered almost like mithril - they are, after all, what it is contrasted to. They're strong, certainly, but mithril is also light - and hard to refine into metallic form.

(The first Gate of Gondolin was of wood, while the last was steel; gold comes between steel and silver, which could be a very oblique hint at mellyrn, and therefore Lothlorien... but as I've already discounted Lorien, I feel free to say that isn't the case, and Gondolin is not relevant to the solution.)

hS

[Nerwen]

Maybe we're looking for 2 steel gates. (Gondolin has too many, and AFAIK no wood).

Or somewhere between the Iron Hills?
Those seem too literal to be "part of the cryptic side", I think.

[Nerwen]

It sounds to me as if Huey might have titanium in mind... or more likely its symbol (Ti). Maybe we should look for those letters in a place name?

[Huinesoron]

Chemical symbols are a good idea. I won't say whether Ti is the correct one to be looking at or not (yet).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe Chromium (Cr, I think). Would that throw up any possibilities, I wonder? (Not Crissaegrim; wrong land mass and mountainous, IIRC).

[Nerwen]

And the answer is not in Middle-earth proper, since Pervinca was "on the wrong landmass"?

[Pervinca Took]

I thought Hs meant different landmass since different Age (War of Wrath and all that).

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe Al for Aluminium. Maybe Al twice, with la at the end. But there are no such names.

[Huinesoron]

Not Crissaegrim, and not on the contiguous landmass that contains, at various times, Cuivienen, Nargothrond, Ost-in-Edhil, and Minas Ithil. Other continents or islands are fair game.

EDIT: Were it acceptable in the English language, the clue would have begun 'Twice gated' rather than 'walled'.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Aldalome? (Al × 2).

Oh, it's a name for Fangorn. Too big.

[Huinesoron]

I like the thought process, but no. I did, however, clue more of the word than just the metal: 'small' isn't part of the straight clue...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Nan Elmoth - sodium is squashy; so is mithril when it's mined? (Na).

Or is there a Taur-na-neldor or something, putting sodium in the middle?

[Huinesoron]

:eek: I... am currently imagining a vest of sodium chainmail. The best case scenario is that it rapidly oxidises to turn a sort of mucky white colour. The worst case scenario is that it rains, your armour melts, giving off hydrogen, and then someone lights a match.

Anyway, it's not sodium. But it is a metal that's already been mentioned (amazing though the mental images would be once you got round to plutonium and mercury...).

The straight clue is also a rough translation of the place name (though admittedly very rough).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

*Throws 'Ag' in as part of team-work.*

[Huinesoron]

I said 'not silver' in #3293 (after 'Silverlode' came up).

Metals which have been mentioned and which I have not specifically rejected:

-Fe (iron, steel - I didn't quite reject it).
-Au (gold - I mentioned it, so this could be me being sneaky).
-Ti (titanium)
-Cr (chromium)
-Hs (hassium - what, that's not what you meant? :D)
-Al (aluminium)

hS (but not Hs, which is radioactive and has a half-life of ten seconds; do not try and make armour out of this)

[Pervinca Took]

The YALE in the Shire? (Contains Al).

[Huinesoron]

Still the wrong landmass. :) This place-name does not appear on any map in LotR, and I'm nearly sure it doesn't appear on any map drawn by the Tolkiens. It does show up on at least one page of the Karen Wynn Fonstad atlas, though (and searching for the correct landmass pulls the relevant map up in the first dozen Google hits).

hS

[Galadriel55]

For #7, I'm spinning versions of SO-(Y). Pathetic = sorry and wet = soggy both have that in common. But soy sauce is not exactly in miruvor's league and I can't come up with another legible combination. Thoughts? Any drinks that have SO?

-Fe (iron, steel - I didn't quite reject it).

As someone whose knowledge of chemistry is largely organism-based, my first reaction to this was to suggest heme iron, which is absorbed better than iron salts and causes fewer gastrointestinal side effects. :D:rolleyes: To each their own textbooks. :D

[Pervinca Took]

6. Kortirion?

Ti + rion (small version of region).

Can't account for Kor or double gates.

[Huinesoron]

For #7, I'm spinning versions of SO-(Y). Pathetic = sorry and wet = soggy both have that in common. But soy sauce is not exactly in miruvor's league and I can't come up with another legible combination. Thoughts? Any drinks that have SO?

While I'm sure Sam would have loved some soy sauce to add to his rabbit stew, it's not that. I should not have used the term 'a bit' - like I said, I'm not always thinking about the normal conventions (due to unfamiliarity, not deliberate twisting).

As someone whose knowledge of chemistry is largely organism-based, my first reaction to this was to suggest heme iron, which is absorbed better than iron salts and causes fewer gastrointestinal side effects. :D:rolleyes: To each their own textbooks. :D

Hissss... nassssty organisms, preciousss.

6. Kortirion?

Ti + rion (small version of region).

Can't account for Kor or double gates.

Not Kortirion, but you're definitely in the right region!

hS

[Nerwen]

Alalminórë?

[Huinesoron]

1. Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
2. Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
3. Each began alone, but their simple tunes grew together.
4. "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
5. From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
Alalminórë - Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
7. Like miruvor, it's pathetic, eh?
Eriol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

Alalminore it is, the Land of Elms, fairest region of Tol Eressea, based apparently on Warwickshire, and made up of Al+Al+minor(+e).

I've tweaked #3 and #7 to remove confusing language. #3 is still a fairly bad clue, but I figure a complete replacement would be impolite.

hS

[Nerwen]

For #3, perhaps SOLONELDI = the Teleri (Telerin "surf singers"), with a play on "solo"?

[Huinesoron]

That is so close, and you're right about 'solo', but there's a slightly different word I'm after. I did clue the second half, too...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

SOLOSIMPI, the pipers of the shores?

And could number 1 be AELFWINE? (Hesitant, because it's not really a cryptic answer).

[Pervinca Took]

7. LIMPE, the drink of the Eldar.

LIMP for pathetic, plus a bit of 'eh' - or something that sounds the same as 'eh?'

Could the password just be LOST TALE?

[Huinesoron]

L 1. - Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
O 2. - Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
S olosimpi - Each began alone, but their simple tunes grew together.
T 4. - "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
T 5. - From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
A lalminórë - Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
L impë - Like miruvor, it's pathetic, eh?
E riol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

Yes, no, yes, and yes. 'Simpi' is intended to be linked from 'simple [tunes]'; 'Limpe' is exactly as you said (and could plausibly be pronounced 'Limp, eh?'). But #1 isn't Aelfwine; it does contain a cryptic clue.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe 2 is OARITSI. According to the glossary of Lost Tales I, they are mermaids, and 'oarni' are sea-spirits, but I'll go for 'oaritsi' because it has some of the word 'twists' in it.

Oar = blade in this context?

[Huinesoron]

Oar = blade, but it's not Oaritsi. The clue isn't just 'twists', but 'twists IN', so... maybe reconsider your choice? :D

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Oarni, then.

[Huinesoron]

L 1. - Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
O arni - Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
S olosimpi - Each began alone, but their simple tunes grew together.
T 4. - "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
T 5. - From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
A lalminórë - Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
L impë - Like miruvor, it's pathetic, eh?
E riol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

Yep. There's another word (Falmarini or Wingildi) for the sea-spirits of the foam, hence the distinction in the clue. I dunno, to be honest I'm still baffled that at one point, Tolkien put actual mermaids in Middle-earth.

3 to go! All 3 are personal names; one of them is in English, the other two in some form of Elvish.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Hs, can you tell me why Alalminore is twice walled? Is it the double Al, or were there two gates?

[Huinesoron]

It's the Al+Al, yeah. I was going for the image of 'to get through the word you have to pass Aluminium twice', and that was the best I came up with.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I have a feeling that the remaining answers may be in The Book Of Lost Tales 2, but both my copies are behind teetering piles of books, and reaching one of them also requires standing on a sofa, which is also piled with books.

[Huinesoron]

I think they all are, yes. Sorry about that. :-/

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Managed to rescue one of them without causing a book avalanche (yet).

Is 5 Tevildo, prince of cats?

[Pervinca Took]

If tales can be taken to be lies, perhaps 1 could be LAURUNDO or LAURUNTO. 'Forms of the name of Glorund [Glaurung] in Eldarissa.'

Glaurung was indeed a liar, but he sometimes spoke truth, rather than always a bit of it. And this answer wouldn't be cryptic.

HOWEVER

You said one of the remaining names was in English. There is LITTLEHEART - maybe LIE for tales, T for truth and HEART for core.

[Huinesoron]

L ittleheart - Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
O arni - Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
S olosimpi - Each began alone, but their simple tunes grew together.
T 4. - "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
T evildo - From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
A lalminórë - Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
L impë - Like miruvor, it's pathetic, eh?
E riol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

Tevildo's cats were a major power in Tolkien's early works; by the time of LotR, cats' main claim to fame was that Queen Beruthiel had some - remembered mostly in a saying (whisper) about finding your way home in the dark. Poor Prince Tevildo (though that's what you get if your name literally contains the word 'EVIL').

And Littleheart - your reasoning is amazing! Mine was much simpler: he's a tale-teller, and his name can be literally translated as 'Small Core'. :D

Just one to go! #4 includes a terrible, terrible pun, but to be honest once you figure out which part is the straight clue there's only a few options even without the cryptic parts.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Tinwelint?

Tin lint for steel wool?

Prototype of Thingol, I believe.

[Huinesoron]

L ittleheart - Each of his tales contains a small core of truth.
O arni - Their blade twists in the deep waters; it does not heed the foam above.
S olosimpi - Each began alone, but their simple tunes grew together.
T inwelint - "It's like steel wool," said the king, "but worse, and pre-cut for us."
T evildo - From scourge of the north to a whisper in the dark, the prince's sad fate.
A lalminórë - Twice walled in mithril (well, almost), a small region of fair woodlands.
L impë - Like miruvor, it's pathetic, eh?
E riol - Hesitant, the sailor erratically greased his boat.

[Theme: Abandoned/Changed Words from the BoLT]

And there we have it. Tin lint, cut or split by 'we' (as in us).

Back to you, I believe. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Mine isn't as scholarly as yours, I'm afraid. In fact, it's possibly even sillier than my last one. But I hope you enjoy it.

Regarding my last password - I forgot to say how surreal it looked, seeing 'Mmm 's'Taters' on posts from both you and Galadriel, as I hadn't realised the answers formed this 'alternative' password if you ignored the 'early start' element of clue two.

Anyway, here goes:

1. Sounds like a pain, to bake.
2. Prohibition is lifted from the banana dessert, but the beverage has a calorific and early start.
3. Slang peepers or Yule pastries?
4. Very disrespectful slang for Elessar? Or a raspberry preserve running backwards?
5. Drink favoured by Macbeth’s sozzled gatekeeper, who jumps in early?
6. One so-hearted might indeed run backwards!
7. Sounds like Ereinion, on a plate!

[Huinesoron]

I like the silly ones! I'm afraid I've spent far too long thinking about BoLT; I didn't realise how tricky it would be.

Anyway, this: I'm gonna start things off with two guesses.

#1: is it simply PAN, which sounds exactly like French 'pain', and can be used for baking?

#2: A banana dessert is a banana split = break, so the calorific and early start could be BREAKFAST? I can't fit the rest of the clue, though.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Not pan, but you're on the right kind of lines with 'sounds like.'

EDIT: You need to do a bit of synonym work first ... perhaps.

Wrong banana dessert - can you think of a more modern one? Or one adopted relatively recently in the UK? Then think about calorific start, but don't worry about the 'early start' for the moment.

[Huinesoron]

Aha! Banoffee loses its ban, and gains a C from Calorific to give COFFEE. The password letter is presumably O?

(For #1, I'm currently far enough down the rabbithole that I'm considering suggesting baked cow... :D)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed! Starts early by one letter, and with the 'earliest' letter of 'calorific.'

For 1, think less Desperate Dan, more hobbitlike.

1. Sounds like a pain, to bake.
COFFEE: Prohibition is lifted from the banana dessert, but the beverage has a calorific and early start.
3. Slang peepers or Yule pastries?
4. Very disrespectful slang for Elessar? Or a raspberry preserve running backwards?
5. Drink favoured by Macbeth’s sozzled gatekeeper, who jumps in early?
6. One so-hearted might indeed run backwards!
7. Sounds like Ereinion, on a plate!

[Huinesoron]

I had forgotten Cow Pie until this moment. You villain. :D

... ah, wait. A pain is an ache, and you bake a CAKE. In particular you bake a seed-cake, which always sounded really nice but I have no idea what it actually is.

And #7 is surely Ereinion Gil-SALAD, which is like a Caesar Salad but much shinier?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Yes - cake sounds like both ache and bake. ;)

CAKE: Sounds like a pain, to bake.
COFFEE: Prohibition is lifted from the banana dessert, but the beverage has a calorific and early start.
3. Slang peepers or Yule pastries?
4. Very disrespectful slang for Elessar? Or a raspberry preserve running backwards?
5. Drink favoured by Macbeth’s sozzled gatekeeper, who jumps in early?
6. One so-hearted might indeed run backwards!
SALAD: Sounds like Ereinion, on a plate!

[Galadriel55]

#4. I'll hazard a guess at Jam (or Maj, backwards), which sounds like gem. To be honest, Elessar the stone was very disrespectfully called a piece of elvish glass, and Elessar the man was then also implied to be a brigand of the hills, but neither one makes a preserve.

[Pervinca Took]

CAKE: Sounds like a pain, to bake.
COFFEE: Prohibition is lifted from the banana dessert, but the beverage has a calorific and early start.
3. Slang peepers or Yule pastries?
MAJ (RASPBERRY): Very disrespectful slang for Elessar? Or a raspberry preserve running backwards?
5. Drink favoured by Macbeth’s sozzled gatekeeper, who jumps in early?
6. One so-hearted might indeed run backwards!
SALAD: Sounds like Ereinion, on a plate!

Yes, Maj as in 'Her Maj,' (sometimes used as slang shorthand for Elizabeth II). 'Very disrespectful' because Elessar's times seem much more formal. I hadn't thought of jam sounding a bit like 'gem.'

[Huinesoron]

I feel like 'slang peepers' must be PIES, as in mince pies, but that means the password would begin 'copm'. So maybe it's MINCE PIES itself, though I can't really imagine them in Tolkien's writings.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

CAKE: Sounds like a pain, to bake.
COFFEE: Prohibition is lifted from the banana dessert, but the beverage has a calorific and early start.
MINCE-PIES: Slang peepers or Yule pastries?
MAJ (RASPBERRY): Very disrespectful slang for Elessar? Or a raspberry preserve running backwards?
5. Drink favoured by Macbeth’s sozzled gatekeeper, who jumps in early?
6. One so-hearted might indeed run backwards!
SALAD: Sounds like Ereinion, on a plate!

Yes, mince-pies, (slang for eyes).

All these foods and drinks do occur in Tolkien, but you may have forgotten where.

[Huinesoron]

Well, all the ones we've got come from four successive lines in The Hobbit, during the Unexpected Party. Sadly I'm going to have to take us back nearly a whole page to find PORTER, which is both Macbeth's gate-guard and, I guess, another name for Port (#5). Early start suggests O for the password.

Is the password COMMONS, as in Short Commons?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

CAKE: Sounds like a pain, to bake.
COFFEE: Prohibition is lifted from the banana dessert, but the beverage has a calorific and early start.
MINCE-PIES: Slang peepers or Yule pastries?
MAJ (RASPBERRY): Very disrespectful slang for Elessar? Or a raspberry preserve running backwards?
PORTER: Drink favoured by Macbeth’s sozzled gatekeeper, who jumps in early?
N: One so-hearted might indeed run backwards!
SALAD: Sounds like Ereinion, on a plate!

THEME: Specific foods and drinks served at Bilbo's 'Unexpected Party.'
PASSWORD: COMMONS

The only somehow-related word I could get to work as a password for these items was indeed COMMONS (as in short commons or rations). Again, a word I first came across in Tolkien (and nowhere else, I think, except in 'Brideshead Revisited.') I had to use the 2nd letter of a couple of the answers even then (and put two others in backwards).

Porter is apparently a very brown and malty beer, as well as an unnamed gatekeeper who provides the nearest equivalent of anything humorous found in 'Macbeth.'

One to go!

[Huinesoron]

Ah, of course! Favoured by Gandalf the Grey and Movie!Denethor, a CHICKEN-hearted fellow (such as Bilbo might seem to be) could well run backwards, perhaps even blubbering NEKCIHC! Though he would admittedly seem very strange while doing so.

I admit I only got this by scouring the chapter for any food with an N at the end.

Were you by any chance hungry when coming up with these? ;)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Well, I used the glossaries in the two Books of Lost Tales, so I guess we're quits.

CAKE: Sounds like a pain, to bake.
COFFEE: Prohibition is lifted from the banana dessert, but the beverage has a calorific and early start.
MINCE-PIES: Slang peepers or Yule pastries?
MAJ (RASPBERRY): Very disrespectful slang for Elessar? Or a raspberry preserve running backwards?
PORTER: Drink favoured by Macbeth’s sozzled gatekeeper, who jumps in early?
NEKCIHC: One so-hearted might indeed run backwards!
SALAD: Sounds like Ereinion, on a plate!

THEME: Specific foods and drinks served at Bilbo's 'Unexpected Party.'
PASSWORD: COMMONS

To answer your question ... well, as my name suggests, I am quite hobbitlike, (a very Tookish hobbit, mind). But having come up with the 'Mim's Taters' idea from a recent perusal of 'Unfinished Tales,' (where I also found the name Nuneth to help with my mothers-and-daughters one), I decided to also try to make one exclusively concerning the Unexpected Party. So I was sort of writing them concurrently, sharing the clues between the two.

Well done, and over to you! :)

[Huinesoron]

Okay.

You're going to hate me.

1. Legolas Greenleaf
2. I came in the autumn
3. Morrowless
4. Home is behind, the world ahead
5. Hey dol! Merry dol!
6. Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
7. In the dim morning

There is a very strong theme to the answers; I realise there are many possible answers to each clue, but you need to peg them to the theme.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

7. From dark Dunharrow ...

[Huinesoron]

None of those words are the answer.

hS

[Galadriel55]

There seems to be a poem or song association with the phrases. But I can't see a distinct password that could make sense with any of my guesses for clues. This one will be an interesting one to solve.

I'm going to approach it by throwing out a couple performers of these words - Tom Bombadil for 5 and I believe Galadriel for 2. Not having books means I can't check it the standard way, and I don't wanna google the quotes.

[Huinesoron]

Neither of those names are the answers. (And in fairness, I should note that any theme in the questions may not match the theme of the answers.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

3. Numenor (because it's gone).

[Huinesoron]

Not Numenor.

(Because of the nature of the questions and answers, it's hard for me to offer many clues for specific questions; I do have some 'general hints' to dole out if it turns out to be too tricky, but I'm holding onto them for now.)

hS

[Nerwen]

I suppose we need to work out what these lines have in common, other the obvious. Hmmn...:confused:

Edit for benefit of those without books handy: the "obvious" is that they are all lines from poems or songs in "Lord of the Rings". But there are many other songs in that book, and I can't see why these have been singled out.

[Huinesoron]

I suppose we need to work out what these lines have in common, other the obvious. Hmmn...:confused:

Edit for benefit of those without books handy: the "obvious" is that they are all lines from poems or songs in "Lord of the Rings". But there are many other songs in that book, and I can't see why these have been singled out.

[Encouraging nods]

[Pervinca Took]

The only theme I can see so far is never-endingness.

I wonder if 'morrowless' might be the best one to start with, because it sounds simpler than the others. It refers to 'nightshade' ... 'And woods of nightshade morrowless.' (Last verse of the Song of Beren and Luthien). The nightshade never ends. (Because the morning/morrow never comes).

Legolas will never have peace again in Middle-earth if he hears the gulls. And if he sails west, he can never come back. And he's immortal.

The road goes EVER on and on.

Tom's songs go on for ever ... I mean he does.

In the dim morning Theoden rides out from dark Dunharrow, and never comes back (alive, that is).

[Pervinca Took]

So we can see the clues on this page:

Okay.

You're going to hate me.

1. Legolas Greenleaf
2. I came in the autumn
3. Morrowless
4. Home is behind, the world ahead
5. Hey dol! Merry dol!
6. Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
7. In the dim morning

There is a very strong theme to the answers; I realise there are many possible answers to each clue, but you need to peg them to the theme.

hS

[Huinesoron]

So, then: a mildly cryptic hint on how to find the answers from the clues:

A roundabout divided

hS

[Galadriel55]

Okay, will have another think.

In the meantime, folks with books - where does Legolas fall in? He himself sings two songs (about Boromir and Nimrodel). I think the only time he is the subject of a song/poem is in Galadriel's prophecy via Gandalf. Is that correct?



So what's in common among all these songs, and specifically these lines? Huey, if you were a mathematician rather than a chemist, I might have looked up the number of each line in the poem to see if they make up pi or e or another famous mathematical sequence or number. :D

Running through authors, singers, and listeners wasn't productive, and it seems too obvious given Huey's previous responses. Throwing out ideas in a different directions, most of these songs have some importance of location. Legolas is to leave Middle-earth, Galadriel is stuck on Middle-earth, Treebeard remembers lands in Beleriand, which are also mentioned in the Luthien song, and Theoden is leaving Dunharrow for Mundburg. The hobbit song and Hey dol are not clear to me; location is more tangential, the song calls for going somewhere forward.

[Nerwen]

So, then: a mildly cryptic hint on how to find the answers from the clues:

A roundabout divided

hS
Roundabout as in circular intersection, or as in merry-go-round?

[Huinesoron]

Roundabout as in circular intersection, or as in merry-go-round?

No.

:D:D:D

[Nerwen]

No.
???:confused::confused::confused:

[Huinesoron]

To expand the hint into a full-blown crossword clue:

Nearby, a roundabout divided (6,5)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

There is the song *cycle* by Donald Swann, but not all these songs are in it, IIRC.

There aren't any roundabouts in Middle-earth!

[Huinesoron]

Okay, okaaaay, I'll give you the hint straight. I was aiming for around & about: ie, the clues are all poems (as spotted) which were either said around or about the answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

They are all sung during the lead-up to, or perhaps one might say during, the War of The Ring. But that's not much more specific than saying they're all in LOTR.

[Pervinca Took]

There is also the theme of exile and homelessness ... until you try to make it fit the Tom Bombadil one.

[Huinesoron]

They are all sung during the lead-up to, or perhaps one might say during, the War of The Ring. But that's not much more specific than saying they're all in LOTR.

Sorry, imprecision is a curse: EACH clue was said either around or about (ie, close to or concerning) ITS answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I think they were all said in, around or about a forest or wood of some kind.

[Huinesoron]

Might have been.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Okay.

You're going to hate me.

1. Legolas Greenleaf
2. I came in the autumn
3. Morrowless
4. Home is behind, the world ahead
5. Hey dol! Merry dol!
6. Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
7. In the dim morning

hS

1 Mirkwood
2. Neldoreth
3. Neldoreth
4. Woody End
5. Old Forest
6. Lorien (in Valinor)
7. Firienwood

Well, the Wolf bit kind of works.

Except you said 6 is 2nd letter, which makes it Woof. :D

[Huinesoron]

1. Legolas Greenleaf
N eldoreth - I came in the autumn
3. Morrowless
W oody End - Home is behind, the world ahead
O ld Forest - Hey dol! Merry dol!
6. Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
7. In the dim morning

There is slightly more to #1 - I chose the exact quote from the poem deliberately. Similarly but different for #7. #3 you just got wrong. ;) And #6... I can't even say or I'll give it away.

hS

[Nerwen]

ERYN LASGALEN for #1?

[Nerwen]

And for #3 I'm thinking "woods of nightshade morrowless" might be TAUR-NU-FUIN?

[Nerwen]

And DRÚADAN FOREST for #7?

Is the password ENTWOOD?

[Galadriel55]

Wondering if #6 is just ME-Lorien, or perhaps Lothlorien.

[Pervinca Took]

Some of my answers were actually right? ;)

(I couldn't remember the name of the forest from later in B and L's story, only the one she danced in at the beginning).

[Pervinca Took]

Wondering if #6 is just ME-Lorien, or perhaps Lothlorien.

Ah, I had the wrong song. I thought it was Gildor and Co singing about 'Snow-white ... o lady clear.' Of course, it's Galadriel's 'O Lorien' and the next words I think are 'now fall the elven-tears.'

[Huinesoron]

E ryn Lasgalen - Legolas Greenleaf
N eldoreth - I came in the autumn
T aur-nu-Fuin - Morrowless
W oody End - Home is behind, the world ahead
O ld Forest - Hey dol! Merry dol!
l O rien - Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
D 7. In the dim morning

'Lasgalen' of course translated Legolas' name. Galadriel was singing about her own Lorien, not the one in Valinor (and how often can you get the right WORD but still get the answer wrong?). The password is indeed ENTWOOD (well done, Nerwen), but #7 isn't Druadan Forest. Think about the specific line I'm quoting.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

But Dunharrow isn't a forest, is it? And I think you'd already said it was wrong?

Edoras is a town.

[Huinesoron]

It"s not Dunharrow.

But it's very close by.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Dimholt?

[Huinesoron]

E ryn Lasgalen - Legolas Greenleaf
N eldoreth - I came in the autumn
T aur-nu-Fuin - Morrowless
W oody End - Home is behind, the world ahead
O ld Forest - Hey dol! Merry dol!
l O rien - Here beyond the Sundering Seas (2nd letter)
D imholt - In the dim morning

[Theme: Woodlands]

I actually forgot Dimholt existed until I was doing this, probably because the movie turns it into the canyon from Last Crusade. But it's probably the 'dark' in 'From dark Dunharrow in the dim morning'.

I feel like this type of clue kind of works. It largely offsets the deduction process from the clues to the theme - once that was pinned down you rattled off the whole list very quickly. At the least, it was something a bit different. :)

Nerwen, I believe that's over to you if you want it.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

It was great to have a passwood based around songs. Am tempted to write another some time in the future, now you've shown us it can be done. ;)

I think that kind of puzzle does need to start with a general/theme hint, though, because otherwise there is no 'straight part' to the clue at all. You could probably find a wood or forest next to pretty much every place Tolkien created where a song was sung. ;) (With the possible exception of the orc song sung under the Misty Mountains. Or Gimli's song in Moria. Athough even that one mentions a green world). :D

Reminded me a little of a great one Galadriel did about Tolkien family members. It would be a few years ago now, I guess.

[Nerwen]

It was great to have a passwood based around songs. Am tempted to write another some time in the future, now you've shown us it can be done. ;)

I think that kind of puzzle does need to start with a general/theme hint, though, because otherwise there is no 'straight part' to the clue at all. You could probably find a wood or forest next to pretty much every place Tolkien created where a song was sung. ;)
I had actually noted earlier that vegetation tended to show up in a lot of the songs referenced- but then I thought, "Well, duh, it's Tolkien! The man really, really liked trees, after all!"

Great clues, though, Huey! You are shaking things up here nicely!

[Galadriel55]

Thirded! The password was very original, and brought a nice change to the pattern. I liked the concept, but I agree with Pervinca that maybe there should be a clue or hint that indicates the theme or how to get to it.

Reminded me a little of a great one Galadriel did about Tolkien family members. It would be a few years ago now, I guess.

Oh yeah. It was a collection of Tolkiens, and there was no spelled password. It was quite a while ago now.

[Pervinca Took]

Do you have another password percolating, Nerwen? Need my mind taking off the weather ....

[Nerwen]

Do you have another password percolating, Nerwen? Need my mind taking off the weather ....

Here you go- hope I haven't messed up any anagrams this time!:o

1. Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
2. Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
3. As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
4. Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
5. A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
6. Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
7. A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
8. Star-power? She bottled it!

Note: there is a theme. All the answers relate to it in some way; none of them (save the password itself) are it.

[Pervinca Took]

You are a life-saver. I don't want to think about getting to work in the snow tomorrow, at least for a few hours.

[Pervinca Took]

8. Galadriel / Phial of Galadriel?

[Pervinca Took]

2. The Silmarils, because Ungoliant was still hungry after draining the Two Trees, but the Silmarils were not settled as part of the payment, and Melkor said that the Silmarils as well was too much (i.e. a surfeit)?

[Nerwen]

1. Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
2. Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
3. As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
4. Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
5. A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
6. Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
7. A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
PHIAL OF GALADRIEL: Star-power? She bottled it!

#2 is not the Silmarils but something closely connected to them. "The insatiable" is indeed Ungoliant, but "unsettled" and "surfeit" are on the cryptic side.

[Huinesoron]

#6 - the Pass of AGLON comes close to being an anagram of 'agony' (=suffering); twice-twisted could indicate that one letter has been changed. I can't speak for its prettiness, though.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

4. ERED GORGOROTH, mountains of terror?

Not sure about other bits of clue - gorge for valley, Thor for legendary one?

Or gorge plus Orodreth? (Although not sure why he would be especially legendary).

[Pervinca Took]

The word 'glut' (surfeit) appears in Ungoliant. Could 2 just BE Ungoliant?

[Huinesoron]

#5 could be MELKOR (reversed); he was certainly ahead of the other Ainur, and loved singing his own solo, and his name literally means 'he who arises in Might'.

Alternately, the geographical theme we seem to be wandering towards could indicate LAMMOTH, the valley holding the echo of his great cry. It would probably still be reversed.

Edit: incredibly cheeky answer to #1 - if we accept Tom Bombadil as the 'incarnation of the One (=solitary)', then he did indeed live in what Frodo called 'the shadowed land'... making the answer OLD FOREST. :D

hS

[Nerwen]

#1 is not OLD FOREST but a much earlier and less famous "land of shadows". You may have forgotten about it. A lot of people did, unfortunately for them. <--hint.

#2 is not UNGOLIANT. You were closer before. It is a thing, rather than a "Person, Beast or Monster".

#4 is ERED GORGOROTH. "Legendary one walked valley, bewildered" is the cryptic part. I'll explain if you like.

#5 is MELKOR (backwards). "Echo" does refer to Lammoth, but is more a hint to how the answer relates to the theme.

#6 is the right approach, but the answer is an *even prettier* pass.;)

1. Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
2. Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
3. As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
ERED GORGOROTH Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
ROKLEM (Melkor) A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
6. Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
7. A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
PHIAL OF GALADRIEL: Star-power? She bottled it!

[Nerwen]

Note: all answers are in the The Silmarillion, The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings, and are significant to the main plot.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Unless it's one of the Two Trees, Ungoliant also drained the WELLS OF VARDA.

Yes, could you explain the cryptic aspect of Ered Gorgoroth, please?

[Nerwen]

2. Unless it's one of the Two Trees, Ungoliant also drained the WELLS OF VARDA.

Yes, could you explain the cryptic aspect of Ered Gorgoroth, please?

It's not the Wells of Varda, so- you've said it yourself. You are looking for a single-word anagram (hence "unsettled") of a word meaning "surfeit".

And ERED GORGOROTH = HERO TROD GORGE. (Beren?):smokin:

[Pervinca Took]

Telperion is an anagram of repletion.

Always thought replete meant full up, rather than excess.

[Nerwen]

1. Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
TELPERION Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
3. As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
ERED GORGOROTH Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
ROKLEM (Melkor) A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
6. Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
7. A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
PHIAL OF GALADRIEL: Star-power? She bottled it!

Telperion is an anagram of repletion.

Always thought replete meant full up, rather than excess.
It does, but I thought it was close enough for the purpose.

[Pervinca Took]

Attercop!

[Pervinca Took]

Assuming that's right, I will guess Cirith Ungol for the pass, and that all the answers are connected to (a) giant spider(s) or had dealings with them/one.

There is a Winding Stair AND you get twisted in Shelob's webs, then eaten? I thought of this one before, but thought I had to gather letter-type elements. Pretty pass could be ironic and a dry statement on the sticky situation?

[Huinesoron]

Which makes #1 AVATHAR, or Avatar + Hydrogen, for where Ungoliant lived.

I want to say the Pass in #6 is the CALACIRYA, through which Ungoliant and Melkor fled (I think), but I can't get 'twice-twisted suffering' from it. It is very pretty, though.

Oh! And #7 must be Blob + I = BILBO, famed spider-irritator.

hS

[Nerwen]

A Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
TELPERION Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
T As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
ERED GORGOROTH Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
ROKLEM (Melkor) A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
CIRITH UNGOL Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
O A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
PHIAL OF GALADRIEL: Star-power? She bottled it!

Assuming that's right, I will guess Cirith Ungol for the pass, and that all the answers ard connected to (a) giant spider(s) or had dealings with them/one.
Exactly.

There is a Winding Stair AND you get twisted in Shelob's webs, then eaten? I thought of this one before, but thought I had to gather letter-type elements. Pretty pass could be ironic and a dry statement on the sticky situation?
Indeed- except that, like "legendary one walked valley, bewildered", you can *also* get the answer a completely different way, via yet another anagram. (I- I can't help it...:eek:)

[Nerwen]

Which makes #1 AVATHAR, or Avatar + Hydrogen, for where Ungoliant lived.

I want to say the Pass in #6 is the CALACIRYA, through which Ungoliant and Melkor fled (I think), but I can't get 'twice-twisted suffering' from it. It is very pretty, though.

Oh! And #7 must be Blob + I = BILBO, famed spider-irritator.

hS
The first and last guesses are correct. The pass is CIRITH UNGOL as Pervinca guessed. Does either of you want to try getting the other solution, or shall I tell you?

AVATHAR Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
TELPERION Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
T As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
ERED GORGOROTH Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
ROKLEM (Melkor) A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
CIRITH UNGOL Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
OBLIB (Bilbo) A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
PHIAL OF GALADRIEL Star-power? She bottled it!

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, Bilbo IS the insect. Of course he is - naughty little fly!

I was trying something with blob, but didn't make that connection.

Taniquetil for the last one - Manwe and the noble Varda?

Cirith Ungol ... I can see TURN, but can you show me the rest?

[Huinesoron]

I've no guesses at the anagram - if it has TURN then there's also letters for LOGIC, but 'HI! LOGIC TURN' doesn't really spring out as relevant. ;)

Still thinking about #3. Assuming it's not Taniquetil per Pervinca, I guess 'reflected' indicates it's reversed. Hmm...

EDIT: If the 'noble lady' is Shelob Herself, then 'he' who lived in the high place known as the Tower of Cirith Ungol is SHAGRAT (or TARGAHS, reversed).

hS

[Nerwen]

Ah, Bilbo IS the insect. Of course he is - naughty little fly!

I was trying something with blob, but didn't make that connection.

Taniquetil for the last one - Manwe and the noble Varda?

Cirith Ungol ... I can see TURN, but can you show me the rest?
No, definitely not Manwë and Varda- but I was wondering if someone would guess that...:D

I've no guesses at the anagram - if it has TURN then there's also letters for LOGIC, but 'HI! LOGIC TURN' doesn't really spring out as relevant. ;)

Still thinking about #3. Assuming it's not Taniquetil per Pervinca, I guess 'reflected' indicates it's reversed. Hmm...

EDIT: If the 'noble lady' is Shelob Herself, then 'he' who lived in the high place known as the Tower of Cirith Ungol is SHAGRAT (or TARGAHS, reversed).

hS
That's it! The clue more-or-less paraphrases the line, "You should try being up here with Shelob for company".

As for CIRITH UNGOL- the second way of arriving at the answer is TWISTED SUFFERING = COILING HURT, "twisted" again for the anagram.

So-

AVATHAR Incarnation has a solitary element in this land of shadows.
TELPERION Unsettled surfeit for the insatiable.
TARGAHS (Shagrat) As he reflected, he lived in high places, in the company of a noblewoman.
ERED GORGOROTH Legendary one walked valley, bewildered, in dreadful mountains.
ROKLEM (Melkor) A mighty avant garde soloist, in retrograde. Or is that an echo?
CIRITH UNGOL Twice-twisted suffering? We have come to a pretty pass.
OBLIB (Bilbo) A venomous insect, yes- but me, a mixed-up globule? Take it back!
PHIAL OF GALADRIEL Star-power? She bottled it!

Theme: giant spiders.

Well done, both of you!

And over to you, Pervinca!:)

[Pervinca Took]

Ok. I have a couple on the laptop. I'll post one when I get home.

Great password, Nerwen. :)

[Nerwen]

Ok. I have a couple on the laptop. I'll post one when I get home.

Great password, Nerwen. :)
Thanks. The really hard part was finding names to fit it!

[Pervinca Took]

Here you go:

1. Ring gleams - troubled soul! – in his hand.
2. Crush first person in the confusion, to find him.
3. Palindromic maiden meets sailor, lord.
4. Acquire nothing but Charles Ryder’s servant in the confusion for her emergence.
5. Shadowfax either side of a flutterer round and round? Involved in an altercation where fire met fire.

[Nerwen]

Tentatively, LUTHIEN for #4, partly from "Lunt", but I don't get the rest of it.

[Nerwen]

And #3 is ANNATAR. "Anna" + "tar" meaning "sailor" in English and "lord" in Elvish.

[Pervinca Took]

Why not, indeed?

SMEAGOL: Ring gleams - troubled soul! – in his hand.
2. Crush first person in the confusion, to find him.
ANNATAR: Palindromic maiden meets sailor, lord.
UNGOLIANT: Acquire nothing but Charles Ryder’s servant in the confusion for her emergence.
5. Shadowfax either side of a flutterer round and round? Involved in an altercation where fire met fire.

Your reasoning is correct, except that Smeagol is gleams plus O for ring. Smeagol himself is the troubled soul - or the soul, if I'm not allowed to use troubled twice. Think I was thinking soul as in person (like Bilbo was 'a kindly little soul'), otherwise I guess I'd have put 'doubly' or something.

[Nerwen]

For #1, SMÉAGOL contains both "gleam" and "ego" (a possible stand-in for "soul").

[Nerwen]

How about UNGOLIANT, then? "Lunt" + "gain" + "o" interpreted as zero.

[Pervinca Took]

See above. I have accidentally edited instead of quoting. Again.

Yes, Lunt was correct but Luthien wasn't, and 'lord' was the straight part of the Annatar clue, for Lord Sauron/Annatar.

Smeagol and Ungoliant are correct, but see the correct reasoning for Smeagol (in my last post).

[Nerwen]

SMAUG for the password, Evil for the theme?

[Nerwen]

And is #5 GOTHMOG? "Moth" + "O" + "GG"?

[Pervinca Took]

SMEAGOL: Ring gleams - troubled soul! – in his hand.
M: Crush first person in the confusion, to find him.
ANNATAR: Palindromic maiden meets sailor, lord.
UNGOLIANT: Acquire nothing but Charles Ryder’s servant in the confusion for her emergence.
GOTHMOG: Shadowfax either side of a flutterer round and round? Involved in an altercation where fire met fire.

Theme is villains, but with an added specific detail.

Balrog met Feanor = fire met fire.

[Nerwen]

SMEAGOL: Ring gleams - troubled soul! – in his hand.
M: Crush first person in the confusion, to find him.
ANNATAR: Palindromic maiden meets sailor, lord.
UNGOLIANT: Acquire nothing but Charles Ryder’s servant in the confusion for her emergence.
GOTHMOG: Shadowfax either side of a flutterer round and round? Involved in an altercation where fire met fire.

Theme is villians, but with an added specific detail.

Balrog met Feanor = fire met fire.
Sorry, I forgot to say that I was assuming the straight clue in #5 referred to Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs vs Fëanor.

[Nerwen]

For #2, MANGLE I = MAEGLIN?

Now, if that's right, what *do* these people have in common, other than wickedness?

Association with fire? Gothmog is a Balrog, Ungoliant copped it from Balrogs, Maeglin and Sméagol perished in flames, Annatar used a volcano as his forge... and Smaug is a dragon.

[Pervinca Took]

Maeglin is correct. The further distinction is just that they are all different kinds of beings. Not all different species, perhaps, as 3 of them I think are Maiar, but they are all different kinds of creatures.

I like your version too, though!

Over to you. :)

[Pervinca Took]

SMEAGOL: Ring gleams - troubled soul! – in his hand.
MAEGLIN: Crush first person in the confusion, to find him.
ANNATAR: Palindromic maiden meets sailor, lord.
UNGOLIANT: Acquire nothing but Charles Ryder’s servant in the confusion for her emergence.
GOTHMOG: Shadowfax either side of a flutterer round and round? Involved in an altercation where fire met fire.

[Theme: villains (all different species/kinds of creatures).]

[Nerwen]

Here you go-

1. Boys and sailors scrambled for this Númenórean beauty.
2. Evergreens found among the doubly displaced.
3. Evil and lonely? In these fair woods?
4. Carved up, more high and honorable article gives support to a quest and guards a crown.
5. Another senior citizen sung better, and gave him something to weep over.
6. A sound of danger troubles its branches.
7. A sleeping shepherd, one rating away from a Tasmanian conifer.

[Pervinca Took]

Is 7 HUORN ... close to Huon pine, I believe (after a quick google) native to or at least growing in Tasmania?

Is 'one rating from' an indicator to take one letter from 'rating?'

And assuming there may be a theme, a guess at ENTWASH for the password?

[Nerwen]

1. Boys and sailors scrambled for this Númenórean beauty.
2. Evergreens found among the doubly displaced.
3. Evil and lonely? In these fair woods?
4. Carved up, more high and honorable article gives support to a quest and guards a crown.
5. Another senior citizen sung better, and gave him something to weep over.
6. A sound of danger troubles its branches.
HUORN A sleeping shepherd, one rating away from a Tasmanian conifer.

Is 7 HUORN ... close to Huon pine, I believe (after a quick google) native to or at least growing in Tasmania?

Is 'one rating from' an indicator to take one letter from 'rating?'
I was thinking of rating = film classification. Huon pine is of course correct.

And assuming there may be a theme, a guess at ENTWASH for the password?
Now, look, Pervinca, how unoriginal do you think I am? We just had ENTWOOD!:p

[Pervinca Took]

Fair enough. ;)

[Huinesoron]

Is #5 OLD MAN WILLOW? 'Senior citizen' + [weeping] willow, plus he was embarassingly outsung by Tom Bom Jolly Tom Tom Bombadillo.

And if we're doing stab-in-the-dark guesses at the password... NIMLOTH would fit, and would keep to the 'tree' theme.

(I have been driving myself crazy staring at the list of Numenorean tree species, just so you know.)

EDIT: So, for #1... NISIMALDAR, the Numenorean land of fragrant trees, can be broken up as LADS + MARINI. 'Lads' as in boys, and 'marin' is French for sailor. 'Marini' isn't a French plural, but it could be a Quenya one (of a French word)...

EDIT 2: And #4 must be LEBETHRON, the wood used to make walking sticks for Frodo and Sam, and also (apparently) to carry the Crown of Gondor. It was definitely carved up, but I feel there's an anagram in there that I'm not seeing... unless 'high and honorable' is referring to the theory that Lebethron is the Entwives (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=709790&postcount=139)? :D

hS

[Galadriel55]

EDIT 2: And #4 must be LEBETHRON, the wood used to make walking sticks for Frodo and Sam, and also (apparently) to carry the Crown of Gondor. It was definitely carved up, but I feel there's an anagram in there that I'm not seeing... unless 'high and honorable' is referring to the theory that Lebethron is the Entwives (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=709790&postcount=139)? :D

hS

Ahh, good one. Article = THE, and the rest makes NOBLER.

[Pervinca Took]

Am going to guess that 6 has the word 'timber' in it somewhere.

I think there's a Timbrethil, meaning 'star-birch.'

[Nerwen]

NIMLOTH it is!

#1 is not NISIMALDAR, but close.
#4 is LEBETHRON [Anagram: THE NOBLER]
#5 is OLD MAN WILLOW, for exactly the reasons given.
#6 is not TIMBRETHIL (whatever that is).


N Boys and sailors scrambled for this Númenórean beauty.
I Evergreens found among the doubly displaced.
M Evil and lonely? In these fair woods?
LEBETHRON Carved up, more high and honorable article gives support to a quest and guards a crown.
OLD MAN WILLOW Another senior citizen sung better, and gave him something to weep over.
6. A sound of danger troubles its branches.
HUORN A sleeping shepherd, one rating away from a Tasmanian conifer.

[Galadriel55]

M for Mallorn? Lorn = forlorn, lonely, and Mal is, hmm, a Latin root for many words that imply evil. It's also French for evil.

[Nerwen]

That's it!

N Boys and sailors scrambled for this Númenórean beauty.
I Evergreens found among the doubly displaced.
MALLORN Evil and lonely? In these fair woods?
LEBETHRON Carved up, more high and honorable article gives support to a quest and guards a crown.
OLD MAN WILLOW Another senior citizen sung better, and gave him something to weep over.
6. A sound of danger troubles its branches.
HUORN A sleeping shepherd, one rating away from a Tasmanian conifer.

[Huinesoron]

Aha! Not Nisimaldar, but NESSAMELDA, the fragrant tree beloved of lads and seamen alike.

hS

[Nerwen]

Indeed.

NESSAMELDA Boys and sailors scrambled for this Númenórean beauty.
I Evergreens found among the doubly displaced.
MALLORN Evil and lonely? In these fair woods?
LEBETHRON Carved up, more high and honorable article gives support to a quest and guards a crown.
OLD MAN WILLOW Another senior citizen sung better, and gave him something to weep over.
6. A sound of danger troubles its branches.
HUORN A sleeping shepherd, one rating away from a Tasmanian conifer.

[Pervinca Took]

6. TELPERION: tone + peril.

7. ILEXES? (Anagram of 'exiles'). Even if it is a 'real world' tree, there are plenty of those in Tolkien's Middle-earth. They're probably mentioned in Ithilien or somewhere.

... quick google ...

It's Latin for holly. OK. I daresay there were ilexes in Hollin, then.

[Nerwen]

6. TELPERION: tone + peril.Yep.

7. ILEXES? (Anagram of 'exiles'). Even if it is a 'real world' tree, there are plenty of those in Tolkien's Middle-earth. They're probably mentioned in Ithilien or somewhere.

... quick google ...

It's Latin for holly. OK. I daresay there were ilexes in Hollin, then.
Indeed. Ilexes *are* mentioned by name in Ithilien, though, so I thought it would work as a reference to either. And I needed an "I".

There! All done!:cool:

NESSAMELDA Boys and sailors scrambled for this Númenórean beauty.
ILEXES Evergreens found among the doubly displaced.
MALLORN Evil and lonely? In these fair woods?
LEBETHRON Carved up, more high and honorable article gives support to a quest and guards a crown.
OLD MAN WILLOW Another senior citizen sung better, and gave him something to weep over.
TELPERION A sound of danger troubles its branches.
HUORN A sleeping shepherd, one rating away from a Tasmanian conifer.

[Pervinca Took]

So ... it's back to Huinesoron!

[Huinesoron]

Thanks for the password, Nerwen - it completely melted my brain at first, but we got there in the end!

Trying something a little different here ('Oh no!', they all cry...); it shouldn't be too unclear (I hope).

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
1. In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
2. In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
3. Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards, this king's son's legs are more famous than his!
4. In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king!
5. Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
6. And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then!

hS

[Nerwen]

Could that be ELENDIL in second place? ("Lend ill")?

[Huinesoron]

It is indeed!

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
1. In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
elendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
3. Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards, this king's son's legs are more famous than his!
4. In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king!
5. Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
6. And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

For 3, I will unconfidently guess ELENDUR (perhaps spelled backwards). One of the last things Isildur says to him is 'King's son!' For the legs ... he was said to be very like his grandfather, who was called Elendil the Tall.

[Huinesoron]

I like it, but I'm afraid not.

(You are looking for the king in 'this king's son's legs...', not the son.)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Perhaps Arathorn, then? Eomer was quite impressed with Aragorn's running ability.

[Huinesoron]

Not Arathorn. Am I about to receive an education in who has the best legs in Middle-earth...? ;)

hS

[Galadriel55]

On the off-chance that "go ill" and "glad" are not said by accident, Gil-Galad for 6?

[Huinesoron]

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
1. In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
elendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
3. Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards, this king's son's legs are more famous than his!
4. In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king!
5. Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
gil-galad - And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then!

Gil-Galad it is; 'shortly' is meant to be a hint that you need to contract the next few words.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could the doll-king be Vardamir Noliman, son of Elros, whose rule was only titular and who let his son take the throne instead?

[Huinesoron]

Alas, he is not.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is the grey king Thingol or Singollo?

'Losing' could perhaps be the 'desperate' element.

[Huinesoron]

No and no.

hS

[Nerwen]

So what could "doll king" mean? That is a very strange description...

[Nerwen]

Apparently "Gram" (father of Helm Hammerhand) means "fierce" in Old English- but then I can't see how the rest of the clue would apply.:confused:

Maybe gram = small measurement?

[Huinesoron]

You may be overthinking it a little. :) It's not Gram.

Finding synonyms for 'rage' is along the right tracks, though.

hS

[Nerwen]

AMROTH? ("Am wrath")?

[Huinesoron]

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
amroth - In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
elendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
3. Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards, this king's son's legs are more famous than his!
4. In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king!
5. Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
gil-galad - And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then!

Indeed! Amroth, whose name is best known from his namesake, Dol Amroth. Edit: Not to be confused with Cerin Amroth in Lorien (not that I would ever get the two mixed up...). Dude was a popular namesake.

(At some point someone is going to have to figure out which letters in these names make up the password...)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I guessed that was the deal with the lack of capital letters.

Do you think you could bold the answers, though? They're a little hard to focus on at the moment.

[Huinesoron]

Bolded. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ta. :)

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe REGNAL. Third letter of each answer, reading from the top downwards.

Also perhaps 'would have been first if not running backwards' means the kings appear in alphabetical order.

[Huinesoron]

No and no. Sorry.

hS

[Nerwen]

More thinking aloud... who in Middle-earth has "famous legs"? I mean other than "Strider", whose father has already been discounted (and was presumeably disqualified from the race anyway due to being a mere chieftain).

Honestly I can't think of anyone...:confused:

[Huinesoron]

An apostrophe has more than one meaning.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Not, in this case, in a way that retains grammatical sense, as far as I can see.

Legs can be the number of times round a race-track or block.

Unless one if them had a particularly impressive table with ornately carved legs.

[Huinesoron]

All right, then:

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
amroth - In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
elendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
3. Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards; this king's son's legs? Far more famous.
4. In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king!
5. Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
gil-galad - And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then!

(Clue #3 edited to allow for grammatical sense. I think the other remaining clues hold up.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I will guess ELROS for 4, as 3 letters short of PERILOUS, but I imagine 3 letters short is too much.

[Huinesoron]

Not Elros, but again, synonyms are the way to go. (It's not even anagrammed this time!)

hS

[Huinesoron]

A general hint, then: a certain historical event ties all these kings together.

hS

[Nerwen]

Battle of Dagorlad? In which case I guess we have AMDÍR in fourth place?

[Pervinca Took]

If grey referred to Grey Elves, I guess the 'a bit green' one is either Oropher or Thranduil. Both fought in the Last Alliance and both were kings at some time.

[Huinesoron]

Battle of Dagorlad? In which case I guess we have AMDÍR in fourth place?

Indeed! He am dir(e).

All right, then:

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
amroth - In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
elendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
3. Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards; this king's son's legs? Far more famous.
amdir - In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king!
5. Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
gil-galad - And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then!

If grey referred to Grey Elves, I guess the 'a bit green' one is either Oropher or Thranduil. Both fought in the Last Alliance and both were kings at some time.

Could well be! Team Legolas was well represented in the Last Alliance (though presumably he himself wasn't there). But can you fit either of them to the rest of the clue...?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

No.

Unless the 'memories' bit means that he died in the battle, as GG did, in which case it would be Oropher.

[Huinesoron]

Well, you have found the right person.

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
amroth - In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
elendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
3. Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards; this king's son's legs? Far more famous.
amdir - In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king.
oropher - Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
gil-galad - And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then.

The ellipsis was meant to suggest that you need to finish the sentence; the natural conclusion (to me) was 'of him, or of her, which... well, you see it. :)

One to go! And someone needs to find the password, too!

My earlier hint for #3 still stands: what does an apostrophe mean?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

3. Thranduil, as Legolas is his son and more famous?

But going backwards, so Liudnarht.

[Huinesoron]

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
amroth - In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
elendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
thranduiL - Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards; this king's son's legs? Far more famous.
amdir - In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king.
oropher - Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
gil-galad - And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then.

Ding! There it is - this king's son(is) Legs. :D I apologise sincerely. And the key letter is indeed the last.

... but can you find the password?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I doubt if Saruman, with all his experience of draining rivers for treasure, would be able to find your password.

[Pervinca Took]

You can almost make AEGLOS with the first letters and the L of Thranduil, but the S is missing.

[Pervinca Took]

Unless one of the Valar was standing by and shouted 'Goal! Ea!'

[Huinesoron]

I doubt if Saruman, with all his experience of draining rivers for treasure, would be able to find your password.

Wel, that's a bit harsh.

I literally plastered numbers all over the clues.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I'm sorry. I probably shouldn't try to look for passwords at all when my head and eyes ache from 'flu.

I can almost make ALLIES from the number clues, but again, there is no S.

ALLIED?

[Huinesoron]

And the results of the kings' footrace are in!
Amroth - In first place, the doll-king who simply is rage!
eLendil - In second place, the exiled king to borrow sickness from!
thranduiL - Next, he would have been first had he not run backwards; this king's son's legs? Far more famous.
amdIr - In fourth place, things are just short of desperate for this grey king.
orophEr - Coming in second from last and feeling a bit green, this king's memories could be of him, or...
gil-galaD - And in very last place, this elven-king fears things will shortly go ill; glad he didn't win, then.

Password: ALLIED. Theme: kings during the Last Alliance.

I would have much preferred ALLIES, but the only way to get an S would be to use Isildur, and I couldn't find a way to use his last-place position to clue the second letter. (Well, I could have done Sauron, but that might have muddied things...)

I actually wanted to clue ALLIANCE, but had to change it because literally no-one had a C in their name.

Anyway, sorry that turned out so tricky! Over to you, Pervinca, and well earned.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

It looks so cool with the letters in red. How do you do that?

I thought your number placings were just a part of the 'kings having a race' conceit. It does look a lot easier now I see that there was a dual purpose to this. ;)

[Huinesoron]

The Kings' Race conceit was just a way to hide the numbers in plain sight. ^_^

The code for red and bold is (highlight)this(/highlight), but using square brackets. If there's a button for it, I haven't found it.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Now that the memories of Allied Carpets ads from the 70's/80's and the images of all the Last Alliance heroes taking part in the Wacky Races have left my flu-addled brain, here is a password puzzle.

It was a really good password, though. I can't believe I was dense enough not to realise what the numbers meant. And the way all the clues worked together as part of one conceit reminded me of the way some Logic puzzles used to create a sort of mystery story.

Just a quick one this time.

1. Scent loses pilgrim for him.
2. Muppet initially changed for him.
3. The high table at Rivendell was on one of these!
4. Wilful vassal of reformed Muppet.

[Huinesoron]

Thanks.

Okay, so... was the high table on a dais?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

That it was!

1. Scent loses pilgrim for him.
2. Muppet initially changed for him.
DAIS: The high table at Rivendell was on one of these!
4. Wilful vassal of reformed Muppet.

[Huinesoron]

Is #2 ULMO, from the Muppet and prospective father of Celeborn Elmo?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ulmo is correct.

1. Scent loses pilgrim for him.
ULMO: Muppet initially changed for him.
DAIS: The high table at Rivendell was on one of these!
4. Wilful vassal of reformed Muppet.

[Huinesoron]

Okay... so maybe the 'reformed Muppet' of #4 is Ulmo, which would make his willful vassal OSSE?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

'Tis e'en so.

1. Scent loses pilgrim for him.
ULMO: Muppet initially changed for him.
DAIS: The high table at Rivendell was on one of these!
OSSE: Wilful vassal of reformed Muppet.

[Huinesoron]

Awesome.

Sadly, I'm at a complete loss for password, theme, or #1. I feel like 'pilgrim' is likely to be a specific person, rather than a synonym; the obvious synonyms for pilgrim are too long to be removed from anything. There's nothing indicating an anagram, but none of the words I can come up with for 'scent' spring out as a Middle-earth name with another word spliced in the middle.

Ulmo and Osse together immediately points at the ocean, but what are we to make of dais? Obviously the answer is less direct. (The obvious third is Uinen, but she's female!)

And the password? If it's from the first letter, I can't conjure up a single word that describes a theme or is a Middle-earth word. Ludo? But we're not in Labyrinth, and Tolkien was silent on the board games of the gods. Judo? I'm sure Ulmo would love to throw Osse across the dais a few times, but... :D

With three four-letter words, the password could actually spring from any of the letters... _LAS, _MIS, _OSE. Any of those could make a word - 'Alas!' 'Nose!' - but no obvious connections to the answers are jumping out.

So that's where I am. Maybe someone else will read this and the answer will come to them!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Hi, Huinesoron!

This password doesn't have a theme. It has a couple of other special(ish) features instead.

I have posted two passwords like this before, but not for a long time.