Password

[Mithalwen]

:D I didn't get that until I said 'Porsche Falas' to myself in my head ... :eek: :D

I was thinking of Ferrari myself or one of the spivvier jags... but other midlife crisis cars are available....

[The Saucepan Man]

I was thinking of Ferrari myself or one of the spivvier jags... Hey, I'm a Jag driver! Admittedly it's an estate :rolleyes: , but I wouldn't mind one of those spivvier ones. Still, I am probably just about due a mid-life crisis. :D

[Mithalwen]

Actually I like the jaguar estate.. fine looking car - but even mercs and beamers look almost acceptable in estate version. And I love some jaguars - my grandfather designed the engine for the SK 120 but in all honesty I have to say there have been a few horrors to disgrace the marque ...
all bonnet and no substance

[Mnemosyne]

In apology for my tardiness in coming up with this, it's a longer one. If it's too easy, too hard, or doesn't adhere to the rules, I do apologize. All of them are cryptic but the first one.

1. If he'd been named Meriwether, maybe he wouldn't have had such a devil of a time trying to woo the woman of his dreams.
2. Nessa - Lady buried in one's sadness
3. Golfimbul - Foe enjoys sport within kine, we hear.
4. Varda - The element precedes the creation, says the queen.
5. Gil-galad - Unnetted hero and boy become king
6. Teleri - Sailors back up anger, permitted.
7. Argon - Noble Noldo

[Mugwump]

The rules seem to have changed since the beginning of this thread, where it was said that the first letter of each answer forms the password. But here (the previous riddle) the first word of each answer (Tol) was the password. What don't I understand?

[Mnemosyne]

Look at rule #5.

To make matters worse, "Tol" was not the first word of each clue. It just happened that if you stuck "Tol" before each clue it made a canonical island.

Also, if you've had little experience with cryptic crosswords I suggest you do some reading on how they're done. They're fun, but quite infuriating. :D

[Mithalwen]

6. Sailors back up anger, permitted - Teleri (renowned for shipbuilding and sailing and it is ire (anger) and let (permitted) reversed (backed up).

[Mnemosyne]

Yup. ^_^

[The Saucepan Man]

2. Lady buried in one's sadness

Nessa

Her name is buried in one's sadness.

[Mnemosyne]

Indeed.

[Mithalwen]

Not at all confident but is 7 Artanis? Father-name of Galadriel meaning Royal woman?

[Mugwump]

I'm fairly lost in trying to figure out how to do this type of riddle, but could 5 be Elessar/Aragorn/Strider?

[Mithalwen]

Well he did become king but I don't see a connection to the rest of the clue. Not that that means anything...

[Mithalwen]

Sorry Mugwump.. you have just set me on what I am confident is the right path.

5. Unnetted hero and boy become king - Gil-galad Boy made me think of lad which led to thinking Gilgalad for the king. So then I was left with Gilga... and thought of Gilgamesh. Lose the mesh or net and ... bingo.

[Mugwump]

Boy made me think of lad which led to thinking Gilgalad for the king. So then I was left with Gilga... and thought of Gilgamesh. Lose the mesh or net and ... bingo.

Aha, so that's how it works. Thanks. :)

[Mithalwen]

No thank you... :D I believe that the US and the UK have different cryptic conventions. And we may have corrupted Mnemo in that respect... this is the starter guide to my own choice of daily masochism....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/3675717/Demystifying-Cryptic-Clues.html

[Mnemosyne]

7. is, I'm afraid, wrong. The clue is cryptic even if it's only two words.

5., however, is right on the money.

Mugwump, please do join me in corruption! We have a lovely old time here, I assure you.



ETA: And, Mith, if by "different cryptic conventions," you mean "the U.S. has no cryptic conventions" you're about right. Yes, I've read up on the stuff on wikipedia, and apparently there are different rules for the cryptics that we do have; but almost no one in the States (at least, the Midwest) knows what you're talking about when you mention "cryptic crosswords" or "cryptic anything." About the closest we ever get are the clues in our conventional crosswords that end in question marks.

[Mithalwen]

I thought there had to be more to it than a translation.. but I had to eliminate before I could progress...have a mind that tends to fixate alas...

[Mnemosyne]

*bump*

Surely there must be some more guesses out there?...

[Mithalwen]

Stabbing in the dark again ... if the first is a relatively "straight" clue... Aldarion... he is the only character I can think of off the top of my head who really had to woo his lady and the only Meriwether I can find spellt thus was an explorer.... it could also mean a happy sheep which would fit with Erendis' Emerwen (shepherdess) nickname.

[Mnemosyne]

Afraid not. You have to look outside Tolkien to get clues for #1.

[Mithalwen]

But the answer IS within Tolkien?

[Mnemosyne]

Yes. The answer itself is within Tolkien; in order to get there you have to combine knowledge of Tolkien's stuff with other stuff. This will give you an answer that's valid with said "other stuff" but also happens to be Tolkienian. Like a cryptic, in that sense; only not on the verbal level.

Gosh, that was complicated.

A clue as to where you need to look can be found in the word "devil."

[The Saucepan Man]

Having been puzzling over these quietly in the background, I believe that I may have found one ...

Foe enjoys sport within kine, we hear.

Golfimbul

An Orc-chieftain, and so a foe, and his name we might hear as golf-in-bull. :D

[Mithalwen]

Like the terrorist attack at the cattle show .... abominable...

[Mnemosyne]

Bwahaha! That is indeed correct, Sauce!

[Mithalwen]

More to bump up the thread than because I have any confidence I'll try Argon for No 7 . Noble gas and fourth son of Fingolfin unrecorded in the standard Silmarillion.

[Mnemosyne]

I <3 Chemistry...

[Mithalwen]

Seriously? I don't believe it? Do you realise how little chemistry I have done? One year decades ago which was somewhat insubstantial due to the teacher having a breakdown after about three weeks... what does I <3 Chemistry mean?

And should I rummage further in the periodic table for 4?

[Mnemosyne]

Maybe, but you'd be better off focusing on the other clues and then letting seeing if what remains fits or not.

[Eönwë]

4. The element precedes the creation, says the queen.

Is it Varda?

V (Vanadium, a chemical element)+ Arda (the created world)

Oh, and of course, she's the "Queen of the Stars"

edit: Also, Vanadium is named after Vanadis, another name of Freyja, who according to some theories might be Odin's wife, which would but her in a similar position to Varda. But I digress...

[Mnemosyne]

Yup. Which means we're down to the last one... I've given some hints as to how you need to solve that one, and what specifically in the clue should lead you to the elsewhere that can give you the answer.

[Mnemosyne]

Repost for the new page:

1. Pip - If he'd been named Meriwether, maybe he wouldn't have had such a devil of a time trying to woo the woman of his dreams.
2. Nessa - Lady buried in one's sadness
3. Golfimbul - Foe enjoys sport within kine, we hear.
4. Varda - The element precedes the creation, says the queen.
5. Gil-galad - Unnetted hero and boy become king
6. Teleri - Sailors back up anger, permitted.
7. Argon - Noble Noldo

[Eönwë]

Yup.

So you do <3 chemistry then.

[Mnemosyne]

So you do <3 chemistry then.

Yup. Not sure if I'm ever going to be able to work Boron into a clue, though.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hmm, my dire lack of chemistry knowledge appears to have counted against me here. :rolleyes::D

I am afraid that 1. has me stumped too, although I believe that I have the Password.

Since it is bad form to give the Password (and thereby claim the thread) before the puzzle is complete, I do not propose stating it here. However, in case it helps anyone else to solve the clue, I would note that (if I am right) finding the Password will provide an additional clue to the answer to 1.

[Eönwë]

Yup. Not sure if I'm ever going to be able to work Boron into a clue, though.

"The sound of the other marsh ends the Boron next in line"?


Yeah, I think I have the password, I'm just trying to work out what the first clue could be.

[Mithalwen]

I haven't got a clue about either.... :( I am not just holding back because I don't want to make the next one up...

[Mnemosyne]

Darn, I'd had such great expectations for this one...

[Mithalwen]

Yes. The answer itself is within Tolkien; in order to get there you have to combine knowledge of Tolkien's stuff with other stuff. This will give you an answer that's valid with said "other stuff" but also happens to be Tolkienian. Like a cryptic, in that sense; only not on the verbal level.

Gosh, that was complicated.

A clue as to where you need to look can be found in the word "devil."

Okies...

Well I have looked up all the names for the devil I can find and only "old Harry" seems to have any hint of Middle Earth as in Mr Goat leaf... The devils of Middle Earth would be Morgoth and Sauron.... arguably Feanor as a fallen Lucifer ala Paradise lost.. but I can't see how they would make sense with the rest of the clue. Lusting after the dumb brunette doesn't seem to quite equate with a wooing....

I am struggling to think of characters who had problems with wooing..as opposed to getting Daddy's consent... Not Aldarion, Turin maybe, Eol more or less kidnapped Aredhel...

Gah,... not sure if I am being dim or overthinking or both...

[Mnemosyne]

There's another synonym for "devil" which will direct you to another author's works... find some similarities to LotR names and you should have your answer.

[Mithalwen]

You are working on the assumption that I read anything other than Tolkien.... ;)Screwtape Letters I have read but I don't think that is relevant... :(

[Mnemosyne]

Well, it's one of those authors whose books they make you read in school... That and I've been punting hints left and right for some time yet. Combined with the almighty powers of Spark Notes I'm sure someone can figure this out.

[Mithalwen]

Will go and google spark notes .... School as in school or university?:Merisu:

[Mnemosyne]

School as in school or university?:Merisu:

Depends on how much the education system has gone down the crapper... ;)

[Mithalwen]

If it were published since I left either I may have to shoot myself on grounds of age as well as stupidity... now on S and haven't been inspired...

[Mithalwen]

Depends on how much the education system has gone down the crapper... ;)

We wouldn't have been allowed to say that when I was at school.... not very ladylike language Mnemo...

[Mnemosyne]

We wouldn't have been allowed to say that when I was at school.... not very ladylike language Mnemo...

Hopefully you'd have had no reason to say that! If you'd like I can substitute the word "latrines" or "garderobes."

But actually I should think that age would put you at an advantage to this clue as it would be more likely that something of the author's was still required reading.

[Mithalwen]

Well I did cop the aftermath of syllabus modernisation which meant we didn't do so many classics... Nothing to do with Kit Marlowe's Faustus? Which I did first year of Uni...

[Mnemosyne]

Well I did cop the aftermath of syllabus modernisation which meant we didn't do so many classics... Nothing to do with Kit Marlowe's Faustus? Which I did first year of Uni...

Think later. I'm looking for a famous novel.

[wilwarin538]

Is 1. Pippin? (like Pip from Great Expectations (who I believe does not end up with his love in the end) by Charles Dickens (like "what the dickens!", substitute for the word devil), don't get the Meriwether part though)

If it's right though I have no idea about the password so someone else can snag it. :)

[Mnemosyne]

So... ridiculously... close...

To get the full joke take a look at Appendix C (only later editions, though) as well as a character list for the novel alluded to.

Someone who has the Password should be able to take it from here.

[Mithalwen]

Since I don't have my copy with me... in the time honoured phrase... I tried Google and found this (http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/book/)... I may be gone some time:cool:

[Mnemosyne]

Since I don't have my copy with me... in the time honoured phrase... I tried Google and found this (http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/book/)... I may be gone some time:cool:

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE???

*Mnemo's free time disappears in a black hole*

Oh, well... at least you didn't link to TVTropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLordOfTheRings).

[Mithalwen]

Ooh I willget to that when I have finished giggling about the interorc fight which allows Merry and Pipping to escape being a difference of opinion as to whether Balrogs have wings... oh yes novel and family trees... ummm I'll get back to you..

[Lalaith]

*butts in*
Well, both Merry (LotR) and Pip (GE) loved ladies called Estella, or not as the case may be. But I don't get the Meriwether either.

[Mnemosyne]

*butts in*
Well, both Merry (LotR) and Pip (GE) loved ladies called Estella, or not as the case may be. But I don't get the Meriwether either.

One of them gets the girl and one doesn't. I blame it on the name, but since Meriadoc isn't a first name in Victorian England...

[Mithalwen]

And Meriwether is? :confused: So am I being terminally thick or is this solved. I am only vaguely familiar with Great Expectations having slogged my way through other Dickens tomes for the sake of my education...

[Mnemosyne]

No character, but you might be able to shorten his name to that of a character in a different universe who did get an Estella.

The only reason this isn't solved is because no one's actually hazarded the answer. The last guess that wilwa ventured was "Pippin," which was very close but not quite correct.

[Mithalwen]

So just Pip then.....? I am still clueless about the password since seemingly it is a linked word rather than a "straight" one...

[Mnemosyne]

Yes!

And the password is up for grabs!!

[Nerwen]

Of course! PNGVGTA!

...Er... wait a moment...

[Nerwen]

I know! I know! It's an acronym, isn't it?

The password is: Papua New Guinea versus Grand Theft Auto.

Am I right or am I right?:smokin:

[Mithalwen]

Nerwen, you beat me to it... ;) but surely Pngvgta was one of the Pukel men?

[Eönwë]

I was waiting for SPM, but ok...

Paladin, as in Paladin Took

[Mnemosyne]

That's it--the last letter of each word instead of the first.

Thread's yours, Eonwe.

[Mithalwen]

Oh.......... I have been like Gandalf trying to get into Moria ... I have been wracking my brains trying to thing of a link between two Valier a brace of Noldo, the sea elves a hobbit and a goblin king...

I am a plank....

[Mnemosyne]

Eonwe? :Merisu:

[Eönwë]

Totally forgot about this... let me think...

[Turambar]

Anyone?

[Galadriel55]

This may be the most random revival ever, but I just felt like it. And I'm not even good in cryptics...

1. An old option, and well-known!
2. A master, followers found in education and the underworld
3. A circle of the future
4. The guy doesn't know what he's saying: he said that a mountain are, and mixed up his articles!
5. Gosh, the breeze brings some choice!

[Morsul the Dark]

This may be the most random revival ever, but I just felt like it. And I'm not even good in cryptics...

1. An old option, and well-known!
2. A master, followers found in education and the underworld
3. A circle of the future
4. The guy doesn't know what he's saying: he said that a mountain are, and mixed up his articles!
5. Gosh, the breeze brings some choice!

G55 you even remember the answers?:rolleyes: If you do I'll try some guesses otherwise mind if I try one?

[Galadriel55]

G55 you even remember the answers?:rolleyes: If you do I'll try some guesses otherwise mind if I try one?

No, sadly not. :( I remember what some cryptic parts of some questions were referring to, but not the whole. I would have to try figure out my own question. :rolleyes:

I'll tell you if I succeed, but I think that anyone can post a new one instead.

EDIT: I just remembered #5 and #3. I think I remember the password now, but I would still have to recall the other clues.

[Galadriel55]

OK, I now remember what all the answers are, but I'm horrified at how badly the cryptics work. Evidently I tried this before I read the Cryptic Clues thread.

So if you want to you can guess, or you can start a new one.

[Morsul the Dark]

This may be the most random revival ever, but I just felt like it. And I'm not even good in cryptics...

1. An old option, and well-known!
2. A master, followers found in education and the underworld
3. A circle of the future
4. The guy doesn't know what he's saying: he said that a mountain are, and mixed up his articles!
5. Gosh, the breeze brings some choice!

I forgot my thoughts on these....

5. sounds like when Gandalf chose the path....

[Galadriel55]

I forgot my thoughts on these....

5. sounds like when Gandalf chose the path....

No, that's not it. They're all cryptic (but very bad cryptic because I didn't know how to make proper ones when I made this). And because it's such bad cryptics you may as well start a new one.

[Morsul the Dark]

1. Ironic such a place named for an abuncance of portals
2. Sacked city
3. Not quite birdbrained man but something like it.
4. Sand Piles and eating fancy, a long tradition.
5. Final walkers take this tower.
6. paddle the boat, with your appendage, gets you to Mr. Ed's home.

Lots of sillyness in there.

[Galadriel55]

3. Not quite birdbrained man but something like it.

Radagast?

4. Sand Piles and eating fancy, a long tradition.

Dune+dine-->dunedain?

[Morsul the Dark]

1. Ironic such a place named for an abuncance of portals
2. Sacked city
3. Radagast
4. Dunedain
5. Final walkers take this tower.
6. paddle the boat, with your appendage, gets you to Mr. Ed's home.

correct and correct! :)

[Ardent]

1. Ironic such a place named for an abuncance of portals.
Mordor?

[Morsul the Dark]

1. Mordor
2. Sacked city
3. Radagast
4. Dunedain
5. Final walkers take this tower.
6. paddle the boat, with your appendage, gets you to Mr. Ed's home.

Indeed! ;)

[Ardent]

1. Mordor
2. Sacked city
3. Radagast
4. Dunedain
5. Final walkers take this tower.
6. paddle the boat, with your appendage, gets you to Mr. Ed's home.

Indeed! ;)

I think I wasn't supposed to reveal the password. Oops :o
So I guess I should take a stab at the others:

1. Mordor
2. Osgiliath
3. R
4. D
5. Orthanc
6. Rohan

really? Row + hand? I presume 'Mr. Ed' is a reference to Edoras but I ain't sure about the 'oras' bit, though around here we might pronounce 'our house' that way. If I'm right that's really groan-worthy.

[Morsul the Dark]

I think I wasn't supposed to reveal the password. Oops :o
So I guess I should take a stab at the others:

1. Mordor
2. Osgiliath
3. R
4. D
5. Orthanc
6. Rohan

really? Row + hand? I presume 'Mr. Ed' is a reference to Edoras but I ain't sure about the 'oras' bit, though around here we might pronounce 'our house' that way. If I'm right that's really groan-worthy.

All the answers are right. Mr. Ed is a horse Rohan is known for horses. Like I said sillyness.:p

[Ardent]

A term considered to remove a race from Disneyland.
To stride Shire-ward when it's all over.
Indefinite article, a zero, lingo for nothing.
Regret is Sandyman's business and Haldir's sibling.
Seek for the dale that was cloven. It's vulgar.
He eats dirt, drinks deep, but should be glad to hear about
Undomesticated timber devils.



.

[Galadriel55]

Indefinite article, a zero, lingo for nothing.

Anorien

[Ardent]

Anorien

Correct

1. A term considered to remove a race from Disneyland.
2. To stride Shire-ward when it's all over.
3. Anorien.
4. Regret is Sandyman's business and Haldir's sibling.
5. Seek for the dale that was cloven. It's vulgar.
6. He eats dirt, drinks deep, but should be glad to hear about
7. Undomesticated timber devils.

[Galadriel55]

2. To stride Shire-ward when it's all over.

Homeward Bound?

4. Regret is Sandyman's business and Haldir's sibling.

Rue+mill --> Rumil?

[Ardent]

Homeward Bound?



Rue+mill --> Rumil?
4. Rumil is correct but not 2. homeward bound. Extra clue added...

1. A term considered to remove a race from Disneyland.
2. To stride Shire-ward, when it's all over, for a Feanorian title.
3. Anorien.
4. Rumil.
5. Seek for the dale that was cloven. It's vulgar.
6. He eats dirt, drinks deep, but should be glad to hear about
7. Undomesticated timber devils.

[Galadriel55]

7. Undomesticated timber devils.

Wild Woodwoses?

[Mithalwen]

Is 5 Rivendell? Imladris is a cloven dale but assuming its vulgar means the common tongue so Rivendelll.

[Pervinca Took]

6. He eats dirt, drinks deep, but should be glad to hear about


Willow-man was told to drink deep and eat dirt by Bombadil, I think?

[Ardent]

Wild Woodwoses?

Erm, what are they? Anyway, no, not THAT obscure. This one is a play on words spoken by Saruman.

[Ardent]

Is 5 Rivendell? Imladris is a cloven dale but assuming its vulgar means the common tongue so Rivendelll.

Correct.

1. A term considered to remove a race from Disneyland.
2. To stride Shire-ward, when it's all over, for a Feanorian title.
3. Anorien.
4. Rumil.
5. Rivendell.
6. He eats dirt, drinks deep, but should be glad to hear about
7. Undomesticated timber devils.

[Ardent]

Willow-man was told to drink deep and eat dirt by Bombadil, I think?

Yes, but his full title is... ?

[Pervinca Took]

Old Man Willow, unless he also has an elvish name of which I am unaware.

[Mithalwen]

Erm, what are they? Anyway, no, not THAT obscure. This one is a play on words spoken by Saruman.

The woodwoses are the wild men of tje woods, Ghan buri ghan and co. But having reread The Voice of Saruman I think this is Ents. Funny I don't remeber ever seeing that before.

[Ardent]

Old Man Willow, unless he also has an elvish name of which I am unaware.
I don't know if he had an elvish name either, but you're correct. It's the 'Old' that makes the key letter:

1. A term considered to remove a race from Disneyland.
2. To stride Shire-ward, when it's all over, for a Feanorian title.
3. Anorien.
4. Rumil.
5. Rivendell.
6. Old Man Willow should be glad to hear about
7. Undomesticated timber devils.

The woodwoses are the wild men of tje woods, Ghan buri ghan and co. But having reread The Voice of Saruman I think this is Ents. Funny I don't remeber ever seeing that before.
Ah, I'd missed that title. I just thought of Gan Buri Gan's people as Pukel men.

You're in the right area with Ents. What did Saruman actually call his new guardians?

[Mithalwen]

Wild wood demons then? Is the first one dwarves as opposed to dwarfs?

It may be that wood wose is only used in the Unfinished Tales essay on them..

[Pervinca Took]

Is number two Hiking (= High King) ?

[Ardent]

Is number two Hiking (= High King) ?

Kind of logical but no, though part of the word play includes a more formal word for hike.
Wild wood demons then? Is the first one dwarves as opposed to dwarfs? ...
Undomesticated = Wild ... yes
You're on the right track. There was a third term considered for Dwarfs/Dwarves, but preserved only in a name.

1. A term considered to remove a race from Disneyland.
2. To stride Shire-ward, when it's all over, for a Feanorian title.
3. Anorien.
4. Rumil.
5. Rivendell.
6. Old Man Willow should be glad to hear about
7. Wild Wood Demons.

[Nerwen]

"Dwarrow", then?

[Pervinca Took]

I was thinking Dwarrow, but can't see what else could be the acrostic itself. (Unless one is dwarrows and the other dwerrows - I think Tolkien once wrote that the plural could be either).

To stride Shire-ward, when it's all over, for a Feanorian title.

March is kind of formal for hike, and Westmarch kind of fits some of the clue, as the Shire is in the (north)-west. I suppose they march back west when it's all over, albeit on ponies. But I don't know where the Feanorian title would come in. It's part of the title of a book, and Feanor devised a very important set of characters, but ... unless it could be something to do with the First Age elves who went west to Valinor and saw the light of the Two Trees.

[Ardent]

"Dwarrow", then?
Yes, it only appears in the name "Dwarrowdelf" in the books. I read somewhere that JRR considerd the term because he didn't like the depiction of dwarves in Disney's Snow White.
You got the password (in bold letters), but Pervinca got the last clue so I don't know who gets to do the next one.

...

To stride Shire-ward, when it's all over, for a Feanorian title.

March is kind of formal for hike, and Westmarch kind of fits some of the clue, as the Shire is in the (north)-west. I suppose they march back west when it's all over, albeit on ponies. But I don't know where the Feanorian title would come in. It's part of the title of a book, and Feanor devised a very important set of characters, but ... unless it could be something to do with the First Age elves who went west to Valinor and saw the light of the Two Trees.

You got the answer, but the Feanorian title is an alternative title of Lord of the Rings/The Red Book written in the Feanorian letters at the bottom of the title pages.

1. Dwarrow.
2. Westmarch.
3. Anorien.
4. Rumil.
5. Rivendell.
6. Old Man Willow should be glad to hear about
7. Wild Wood Demons.

I was thinking Dwarrow, but can't see what else could be the acrostic itself. (Unless one is dwarrows and the other dwerrows - I think Tolkien once wrote that the plural could be either). Hmm, I thought of this after I'd posted the clues. I considered adding an 's' clue but thought that the form without 's' may be allowable since that is how it appears in the Westron name for Khazad-dûm.

[Galadriel55]

You got the password (in bold letters), but Pervinca got the last clue so I don't know who gets to do the next one.

IIRC, all the clues have to be solved before proceding to the next password, but the next one is made by whoever said the password first, even if it was before all the clues were guessed.

[Mithalwen]

So who is picking up the ball?

[Ardent]

...
It may be that wood wose is only used in the Unfinished Tales essay on them..
I just found the term in LOTR. In The Ride of the Rohirrim, when merry hears the drums in Druadan Forest, Elfhelm tells him it is not Orc drums but Wood Woses.

So who is picking up the ball? By the rules Nerwen got the Password so it's her call, unless she wants to delegate or leave it for the ten day deadline, when anyone can start a new round.

[Nerwen]

I don't think I'm going to have enough spare time over the next few days, so someone else is welcome to take over.

[Pervinca Took]

I had a couple saved up for the Cryptic Clues thread, but I can't use them there yet. So I wrote five more clues for a new password:


1. Finance loses note for the father of a lord.
2. Palindromic hobbit mingled initially with Radagast, before meeting destruction at the place where his erstwhile comrade finally fell.
3. We hear anger and noise in the quiet place, but note the direction.
4. Stop around a while for an (arguably) unjust moniker.
5. All-Father loses note for a debt-ridden dwarf (we hear).
6. Teetotal Shire village.
7. A hostelry from Brontë country, we hear, inspired an unfinished demise.

[Mithalwen]

Is 6 Nobottle? 5 might be Oin because of owing biut not sure about all father.

[Pervinca Took]

Is 6 Nobottle? 5 might be Oin because of owing biut not sure about all father.

Both correct, Mithalwen.

The Norse god Odin is often referred to as All-Father. If Odin loses a note (d), it becomes Oin.

BTW there is no clue to the whole password in my clues, because I think that gives it away too easily. I read the first page of this thread and I don't think that was stated as a requirement. I'll check again ....

[Mithalwen]

Ah well my norse mythology isnt as strong a suit as perhaps it should be for a keen Tolkienista. i was fiiddling around with a to g and indeed the solfege notes but I was still thinking Middle earth so..... I dont think a overall clue is needed

[Mithalwen]

Pomdering if Bronte country means Angria or Gondal. Or just Yorkshire!

[Pervinca Took]

Ah-haaa - keep thinking that way and you'll get that one. :)

The clues copied to the new page - with those already solved:

1. Finance loses note for the father of a lord.
2. Palindromic hobbit mingled initially with Radagast, before meeting destruction at the place where his erstwhile comrade finally fell.
3. We hear anger and noise in the quiet place, but note the direction.
4. Stop around a while for an (arguably) unjust moniker.
Oin (All-Father loses note for a debt-ridden dwarf (we hear)).
Nobottle (Teetotal Shire village).
7. A hostelry from Brontë country, we hear, inspired an unfinished demise.

[Ardent]

1. Finance loses note for the father of a lord.

Is it Fundin? Funding loses the G to become Balin's father.

.
2. Palindromic hobbit mingled initially with Radagast, before meeting destruction at the place where his erstwhile comrade finally fell. ...
Odo (Proudfoot) + R (Radagast's initial) + ruin (destruction) = Orodruin (where both Smeagol and Sauron finally fell).
Not sure where the erstwhile comrade comes into this though unless it's a reference to the kinship of the Hobbits and Smeagol's people.

[Mithalwen]

Ah-haaa - keep thinking that way and you'll get that one. :)

The clues copied to the new page - with those already solved:

1. Finance loses note for the father of a lord.
2. Palindromic hobbit mingled initially with Radagast, before meeting destruction at the place where his erstwhile comrade finally fell.
3. We hear anger and noise in the quiet place, but note the direction.
4. Stop around a while for an (arguably) unjust moniker.
Oin (All-Father loses note for a debt-ridden dwarf (we hear)).
Nobottle (Teetotal Shire village).
7. A hostelry from Brontë country, we hear, inspired an unfinished demise.

Ah well I stymied myself thinking of pubs in Gondor (not a fruitful search) but with that encouragement I wonder if it is Gondolin which sounds like Gondal-inn.. and the fall of which is an Unfinished Tale?

And now I am in sound alike mode, I will try Rath Dinen for 3 Wrath and din, Rath dinen means IIRC the Silent Street but I can't quite get the last clause to fit.

[Galadriel55]

4. Lathspell - halt mixed up and a spell (as in spell of bad weather) for a title that's not that false if you think about it.

[Pervinca Took]

Sorry for the delay. I think the website was down for a short time, and then I was too busy to look in.

I think that between you you've guessed them all, but I'll go through them one by one.

Is it Fundin? Funding loses the G to become Balin's father.

Perfectly correct.


Odo (Proudfoot) + R (Radagast's initial) + ruin (destruction) = Orodruin (where both Smeagol and Sauron finally fell).
Not sure where the erstwhile comrade comes into this though unless it's a reference to the kinship of the Hobbits and Smeagol's people.

Correct answer. As for the reasoning:

Odo, as you rightly point out, is a palindromic hobbit name (the only other hobbit palindrome I know of is Bob, one of Barliman's assistants). You are correct about mingling this with Radagast's initial and joining it with "ruin."

ERSTWHILE COMRADE / ODO:

It was a different Odo that I had in mind. ;)

- Orodruin was where FRODO finally fell to the power of the Ring.
- ODO was the prototype of MERRY in the early drafts of LOTR, where FRODO was the prototype of PIPPIN.
- So Frodo was the erstwhile comrade of Odo, either because Odo was the comrade of Bingo, the character who became Frodo, or because Odo was the comrade of Frodo, who started as Pippin but became the Frodo of the final, finished LOTR.

Ah well I stymied myself thinking of pubs in Gondor (not a fruitful search) but with that encouragement I wonder if it is Gondolin which sounds like Gondal-inn.. and the fall of which is an Unfinished Tale?

Indeed! Gondal Inn sounds the same as Gondolin. "Unfinished demise" because Tolkien never finished the Fall of Gondolin.

And now I am in sound alike mode, I will try Rath Dinen for 3 Wrath and din, Rath dinen means IIRC the Silent Street but I can't quite get the last clause to fit.

3. We hear anger and noise in the quiet place, but note the direction.

Your answer is correct. Rath Dinen is the Silent Street, and hence the quiet place. "Rath" sounds like "wrath" and "din" is "noise." Then add a note - E - and a direction - N.

4. Lathspell - halt mixed up and a spell (as in spell of bad weather) for a title that's not that false if you think about it.

Correct. "For a spell" means "for a while," although perhaps the phrase had its origin in weather terms. And Gandalf does often bring bad news, so one could argue that the moniker is just, even if it does seem mean (and is meant very meanly).

All of which gives us:

FUNDIN - Finance loses note for the father of a lord.
ORODRUIN - Palindromic hobbit mingled initially with Radagast, before meeting destruction at the place where his erstwhile comrade finally fell.
RATH DINEN - We hear anger and noise in the quiet place, but note the direction.
LATHSPELL - Stop around a while for an (arguably) unjust moniker.
OIN - All-Father loses note for a debt-ridden dwarf (we hear).
NOBOTTLE - Teetotal Shire village.
GONDOLIN - A hostelry from Brontë country, we hear, inspired an unfinished demise.

As I like composing cryptic clues, I actually have another couple of password puzzles all ready. Would you like me to post one of them, or would one of the winners like to do the next one?

[Mithalwen]

Great clues Pervinca. I am not sure what the etiquette is now since the password is now obvious but Galadriel who solved the last clue hasn'tclaimed it.

[Pervinca Took]

That's what I was thinking. Will wait and see if Galadriel wants to post the next one before I post another one.

Well done everyone!

Ah well I stymied myself thinking of pubs in Gondor (not a fruitful search)

I guess if Pippin couldn't find one, no-one could ...

(... unless it was just Minas Tirith that didn't have them).

[Galadriel55]

That's what I was thinking. Will wait and see if Galadriel wants to post the next one before I post another one.

To be completely honest, I only guessed the last clue because I knew which letter it would start with, and I did not guess the password because I felt bad about stealing it. I haven't really done anything for this round, and I think others deserve to go more that I do.

And anyways I can't be trusted now to check regularly since my workload is growing taller by the hour... So I'm not going to come and claim anything. :)

[Pervinca Took]

OK, would Ardent or Mithalwen like to post one? Either of them could well have got the password had I been able to log on yesterday and confirm their answers.

[Mithalwen]

I think it would have taken a while to get lathspell ..it was bugging me. but i could have a go because i should have time rather than because i feel entitled. I am happy to cede to Ardemy.

[Ardent]

I think it would have taken a while to get lathspell ..it was bugging me. but i could have a go because i should have time rather than because i feel entitled. I am happy to cede to Ardemy.

Well I'm happy for you to pose us the next riddle Mithalwrm (I presume "Ardemy" is a typo of Ardent: the M is next to the N and the Y to the T on the keyboard). I did the previous one and prefer to share the burden of deviousness which riddling requires :D .

[Pervinca Took]

I think it would have taken a while to get lathspell ..it was bugging me. but i could have a go because i should have time rather than because i feel entitled. I am happy to cede to Ardemy.

But the first post on this thread states that the first one to state the password has the entitlement to the posting of the next password/set of clues, and gets to do so once all the rest of the clues have been solved, and that the guessed password can be used to help solve the remaining ones. FOR-ONG was pretty obvious, so I'd say both of you are more than entitled.

[Mithalwen]

Ah I should pay more attention I characteristically grasped the stick firmly by the wrong end and thought it wasn't quite the thing to say the pass word if you hadn't finished it ..in my defence I think the last time I was involved in the thread the setter had dislocated the password sneakily to the other end of the answer which confuzzled me to the point I couldn't get it even when there were all the answers... however as my mama used to say... it DOES help if you read the destructions.

Ardent, forgive me, I was typing late at night on a grey Kindle screen and am in total denial that I may need specs. :o

OK well I shall try to post ASAP..

[Pervinca Took]

I thought the same, Mithalwen - I had guessed the Dwarrow one, but I thought we weren't allowed to say it until all the clues were solved. (Then Nerwen posted it and I read the first page again).

[Mithalwen]

Again typing on kindle so while I will try hard to avoid typos....

1 Glimmer fractures around a sigh for lethal epesse.
2 Numenorean declares himself a blade.
3 Heart breaks and loses direction. No good follows here.
4 Dour and doomed standardbearer.
5 Highelven nightingale
6 I host Gail at place with broken spanner.
7 Elder Nan to Celebrimbor at least
8 Sounds like a cursed wand ranging in Ithilien

[Pervinca Took]

8. Damrod - a Ranger of Ithilien - damn + rod?

3. A ford and town named Tharbad?

[Mithalwen]

Both correct. Well done.

[Pervinca Took]

5. Tinuviel?

[Mithalwen]

Sorry no...

[Pervinca Took]

I thought that one sounded deceptively easy! :) (Unless it's Luthien).

1 Glimmer fractures around a sigh for lethal epesse.
2 Numenorean declares himself a blade.
Tharbad - Heart breaks and loses direction. No good follows here.
4 Dour and doomed standardbearer.
5 Highelven nightingale
6 I host Gail at place with broken spanner.
7 Elder Nan to Celebrimbor at least
Damrod - Sounds like a cursed wand ranging in Ithilien

Without looking at family trees, I'm going to guess that Nerdanel was one of Celebrimbor's grandmothers. And thinking about it, I think he is the son of one of Feanor's sons - Celegorm, I think. Nerdanel is an anagram of Elder Nan - very clever!

[Mithalwen]

Giggles.... it might be even easier..

[Galadriel55]

5. Lomelindi?
4. Halbarad?

I'm not in a very cryptic mood, evidently.

[Pervinca Took]

Luthien? (I added it in an edit). (And Nerdanel for No. 7).

[Mithalwen]

Again both correct. This may ne done very quickly

[Pervinca Took]

Both of Galadriel's, or both of mine? (Or both of both of us?) ;)

[Mithalwen]

Sorry cross posted with Pervinca. Lomelind quenya for Nightingale is correct though I suppose since Thingol did go to Valinor Luthien could be regarded as high elven but a bit of a technicality IMO

[Pervinca Took]

OK - so was Nerdanel correct?

[Mithalwen]

Nerdanel which wasnt thee last time i looked is correct. Seems I tried too hard not to be obscure but momentum is fun too...

[Pervinca Took]

The key is to make the first one hard, I think. Which I think you've done quite successfully.

I wonder if it's Mithlond?

1 Glimmer fractures around a sigh for lethal epesse.
2 Numenorean declares himself a blade.
Tharbad - Heart breaks and loses direction. No good follows here.
Halbarad - Dour and doomed standardbearer.
Lomelind - Highelven nightingale
6 I host Gail at place with broken spanner.
Nerdanel - Elder Nan to Celebrimbor at least
Damrod - Sounds like a cursed wand ranging in Ithilien

6. Osgiliath?

[Mithalwen]

I dont think any are particularly hard but when you get to the point of needing certain letters..

[Mithalwen]

Yep anagram of the city where the bridge was broken...couldnt resist one of my punny clues

[Mithalwen]

Yes it is Mithlond and are you editing a lot oar am i really unobservant?

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, I have been editing rather than double-posting - I added Osgiliath after Mithlond.

1 Glimmer fractures around a sigh for lethal epesse.
2 Numenorean declares himself a blade.
Tharbad - Heart breaks and loses direction. No good follows here.
Halbarad - Dour and doomed standardbearer.
Lomelind - Highelven nightingale
Osgiliath - I host Gail at place with broken spanner.
Nerdanel - Elder Nan to Celebrimbor at least
Damrod - Sounds like a cursed wand ranging in Ithilien

[Mithalwen]

Ah the kindle browser doesnt show edits... i just thought I was losing the plot

[Pervinca Took]

Oh, I see ... actually I hadn't realised that you could also type/webbrowse/post on a Kindle. I just have a sort of Kindle package on my computer, downloaded for things that you can only get on Kindle.

2. Imrazôr?

[Mithalwen]

Oh, I see ... actually I hadn't realised that you could also type/webbrowse/post on a Kindle. I just have a sort of Kindle package on my computer, downloaded for things that you can only get on Kindle.

2. Imrazôr?

Maybe not on all. i have a 3g keyboard version. not ideal but better than nothing . but not good for long posts.

imrazor is correct

[Pervinca Took]

1. Mormegil, the Black Sword?

[Mithalwen]

Indeed..all done and dusted in three hours . Could be a record..

[Pervinca Took]

Great clues from Mithalwen, and some rare elvish knowledge from herself and Galadriel.

Mormegil - Glimmer fractures around a sigh for lethal epesse.
Imrazor - Numenorean declares himself a blade.
Tharbad - Heart breaks and loses direction. No good follows here.
Halbarad - Dour and doomed standardbearer.
Lomelind - Highelven nightingale.
Osgiliath - I host Gail at place with broken spanner.
Nerdanel - Elder Nan to Celebrimbor at least.
Damrod - Sounds like a cursed wand ranging in Ithilien.

Indeed..all done and dusted in three hours . Could be a record..

Time for it to be broken, then. ;) Here goes:


1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
2. Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
3. Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
4. Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
6. Alex’s companion reforms before an untimely demise.
7. Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
8. Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

[Galadriel55]

2. Urwen (I admit to have shamelessly trawled the online thesaususes - thesauri? thesaura? screw Latin plurals.)

How is (1) from the previous one Mormegil though? I don't get it. :confused:

Edit: 3. Mithrandir

[Mithalwen]

Mormegil is an anagram of glimmer plus O ( a sigh). Mormrgil means black sword and was Turins epesse.

[Mithalwen]

Could 4 be Gollum?
I wonder if eight is Nobottle again.

[Nerwen]

Is 7 by any chance “Eglantine" (Banks)?

[Pervinca Took]

2. Urwen (I admit to have shamelessly trawled the online thesaususes - thesauri? thesaura? screw Latin plurals.)

How is (1) from the previous one Mormegil though? I don't get it. :confused:

Edit: 3. Mithrandir


1. Yes - URN with the pronoun WE hidden in it.

3. Yes - sounds like MYTH + RAN + DEAR. The tempestuous echo is MIRANDA from "The Tempest." (Technically "expensively" should be "dearly," but it very often gets colloquially shortened to "dear" and was slightly less obvious that way).

8. Yes, "place where hobbits' courage fails them" is NOBOTTLE again.

4. No, 4 isn't Gollum. (Although reading the clue again, Gollum is a very good answer. But not the right one for the password).

is 7 by any chance “Eglantine" (Banks)?

Indeed it is - and you need the surname as well for the answer. I nearly went back and edited it to "Literary Prioress invests to become Tookish consort."

In the General Prologue to the Canterbury Tales, Chaucer says of the Prioress:

"And she was cleped Madam Eglantyne."

Banks = invests.

Eglantine Banks married the Thain (or future Thain, not sure of dates), which makes her as near a royal consort as the Shire has.

So ...

1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
4. Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
6. Alex’s companion reforms before an untimely demise.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

[Mithalwen]

Since my uncertain guess at Gollum is wrong I will be a glutton for punishment and offer Tumladen for the password. Even if right it isnt inspiring me on the other clues...

[Pervinca Took]

TUMLADEN is correct.

T 1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
L 4. Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
D 6. Alex’s companion reforms before an untimely demise.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.[/QUOTE]

[Pervinca Took]

Should I post a clue to any of these? Are there any that you have thoughts on that I could give further clues for?

[Nerwen]

Is #4 “Lotho”? – “Lo!” and/or "O!” for the exclamation, “loth” for the unwillingness. He was the victim of his own greed, and Saruman suggested Wormtongue had actually eaten him.

[Mithalwen]

Oh that would make sense. Baffled.

[Pervinca Took]

T 1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
D 6. Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

Is #4 “Lotho”? – “Lo!” and/or "O!” for the exclamation, “loth” for the unwillingness. He was the victim of his own greed, and Saruman suggested Wormtongue had actually eaten him.

Yes, Lotho is correct. Just LOTH (unwilling) plus O (exclamation). And as Saruman said, "Worm killed Lotho ... Buried him, I hope, although Worm has been very hungry lately." (Ewww).

They all make sense. One or two are a little obscure, that is all. I was trying to make some of them a little more challenging this time.

I have made clue 6 easier, and it refers to another famous piece of C20th literature.

On clue 1, "forces back the mob" is the cryptic bit. "One rarely privileged" is the answer/straight part.

5. Think of a thespian establishment. Spoil it to get a place. Then the "doubly spoiled" bit will make sense.

[Nerwen]

Oh, I think I get #6 now. “Drogo”, right? (Frodo’s father and also an anagram of “droog”.)

[Pervinca Took]

Oh, I think I get #6 now. “Drogo”, right? (Frodo’s father and also an anagram of “droog”.)

Yes indeed. "There was me, Alex, and my three droogs," (George, Dim and the other one). Anthony Burgess's "A Clockwork Orange."

Just recopying my notes from the last post as I did some of them in an edit, so Mithalwen's Kindle might not pick them up. I'll put them in italics:

Yes, Lotho is correct. Just LOTH (unwilling) plus O (exclamation). And as Saruman said, "Worm killed Lotho ... Buried him, I hope, although Worm has been very hungry lately." (Ewww).

They all make sense. One or two are a little obscure, that is all. I was trying to make some of them a little more challenging this time.

I have made clue 6 easier, and it refers to another famous piece of C20th literature.

On clue 1, "forces back the mob" is the cryptic bit. "One rarely privileged" is the answer/straight part.

5. Think of a thespian establishment. Spoil it to get a place. Then the "doubly spoiled" bit will make sense.


T 1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
DROGO: Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

[Mithalwen]

Oooh Is 1 Tuor, rout backwards? Only man counted among the Eldar. I was way off on 6..was thinking of Alexander the Great and Hephaestion before the hint...

[Pervinca Took]

Oooh Is 1 Tuor, rout backwards? Only man counted among the Eldar. I was way off on 6..was thinking of Alexander the Great and Hephaestion before the hint...

Indeed it is!

TUOR: One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
DROGO: Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

And just to wrap things up - for number 5, think thespian training establishment.

[Mithalwen]

OH Arda? Anagram of RADA....

[Pervinca Took]

OH Arda? Anagram of RADA....

Yes. Spoil RADA to get ARDA. And Arda is famously referred to as "Arda Marred" at the end of The Silmarillion. Hence "doubly spoiled."

Re the "Drogo" clue - the "reforms" bit was both literal and indicating an anagram - Alex and his droogs were criminals, so a character would have to reform, so to speak, to become a respectable hobbit.

TUOR: One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
ARDA: Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
DROGO: Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

Your turn. :)

[Mithalwen]

1 Aragorn's transport gains article for huntsman's wife.
2 Sick soldier and sailor loses letters for the high hall.
3 Flower in the spotlight loses direction.
4 Home of Ivy League boffins?
5 Where the mariner tarried.

Probably not worth the wait.

[Galadriel55]

1. Vana?
5. Arvernien?

[Mithalwen]

Both correct. I had anither clue for the a but it seemed too fiendush.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Ilmarin? (Deals with sick and sailor - don't know about the soldier though!)

(Vilya?)

There are some (now quite old) T-Shirts around with "Aragorn and Gandalf went in the van" on the front. (With a picture of Gandalf and Aragorn getting in a van).

[Pervinca Took]

3. Is there a river called Limlight? I can remember one of your cryptic clues being a river when I was looking for ages for a flower of the blooming variety. Limelight loses a note.

I can't find any Tolkienian places beginning with Y - Yale fits the clue but has nothing to do with Tolkien, unless it means something in Elvish.

[Mithalwen]

All done. A Marine was in origin a soldier deployed on naval vessels. Yale is the area mear Stock home to the Boffins. It is mentioned in Threes company i think and on the Hobbit family trees.

[Mithalwen]

Oh Limlighy is a tributary of the Anduinw.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, then the Shire names aren't all listed in the appendices of names in the LOTR (unless I was looking in the wrong place). Great clues anyway. (Especially the puns on boffin and Yale!)

VANA: Aragorn's transport gains article for huntsman's wife.
ILMARIN: Sick soldier and sailor loses letters for the high hall.
LIMLIGHT: Flower in the spotlight loses direction.
YALE: Home of Ivy League boffins?
ARVERNIEN: Where the mariner tarried.


1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
4. Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
5. Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
6. Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

It is in the index of my Kindle ed but I have an idea it may have only been picked up in the revised anniversary edition.

Is four Haldir? Anagram of dial and HR

[Pervinca Took]

It is in the index of my Kindle ed but I have an idea it may have only been picked up in the revised anniversary edition.

Is four Haldir? Anagram of dial and HR

Haldir is correct.

1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
5. Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
6. Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

I have a hunch the dwarf names came from the Elder Edda so I will Take a stab at Ori for six because Or could be alternatively and one is sometimes I

[Pervinca Took]

I have a hunch the dwarf names came from the Elder Edda so I will Take a stab at Ori for six because Or could be alternatively and one is sometimes I

Indeed - OR + I = ORI. I think it was in Carpenter's biography of JRRT that I first learned that the dwarf names in The Hobbit came from the Elder Edda.

1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
5. Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

In anagram mde again I will go for Mirabellla for five. Frodo's grandmother a Took by birth and brandybuck by marriage. Braille is mixed up between am reversed.

[Pervinca Took]

In anagram mde again I will go for Mirabellla for five. Frodo's grandmother a Took by birth and brandybuck by marriage. Braille is mixed up between am reversed.

Perfectly correct.

1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

Thinking aloud since it has been a while and I am struggling ..I think 2 is a high elven name ending reth because Rethe is March in the Shire Calendar. But I can not work out the crooked cross bit

[Pervinca Took]

Thinking aloud since it has been a while and I am struggling ..I think 2 is a high elven name ending reth because Rethe is March in the Shire Calendar. But I can not work out the crooked cross bit

You are correct that it ends in "reth."

"Crooked" refers to making the word crooked. You just need to find an alternative word for "cross" and make it so.

Huge clue: think very old-fashioned word for cross, appearing in one of Hamlet's ranting speeches to his mother, and in Old English dream poetry ....

[Mithalwen]

Ah Orodretn...how stupid I have just been reeding about the issues about Gil~galad's parentage and I did not even notice because was thinking it would be a female name cos od Elbereth..

I am afraid i have forgotten much Hamlet and never di much old English but I remembered that the cross is called the rood as in Holyrood and suddenly an anagram made so much more sense.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah Orodretn...how stupid I have just been reeding about the issues about Gil~galad's parentage and I did not even notice because was thinking it would be a female name cos od Elbereth..

I am afraid i have forgotten much Hamlet and never di much old English but I remembered that the cross is called the rood as in Holyrood and suddenly an anagram made so much more sense.

That's what I find usually happens with cryptic clues. I try to think of all possibilities but it's like there's a solid wall between my eyes and the right one. "Absurdly simple when you know the answer ...."

Correct on Orodreth. And the Hamlet quote is, (after Gertrude's "Have you forgot me?"), Hamlet's brutal answer: "No, by the rood, not so. You are the queen, your husband's brother's wife, and, would it were not so, you are my mother." Although I was thinking more of The Dream Of The Rood.


1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
ORODRETH: Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

So - how about a shot at the password?

[Mithalwen]

Ah vision of the rood floated up from memory but not strongly..yes I had the idea that a crooked cross might be a k...and my other stalling thing is that the last hassomething to do with holbytla because if hobby..but h is no good since I guess the password is Gothmog.

[Mithalwen]

And on that theory is one
Gaffer Gamgee

Gaff + er +(mage +eg) anagram

[Pervinca Took]

And on that theory is one
Gaffer Gamgee

Gaff + er +(mage +eg) anagram

Brilliant - well done! And correct on Gothmog, of course. So:

GAFFER GAMGEE: Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
ORODRETH: Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
T: Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
G: A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

The last one is not based around hobby/holbytla. It's kind of used for a modern kind of leisurely pursuit, although it could be used for recreation in general.

[Mithalwen]

Yes I couldn't make it work but tend to fixate which stymied me on the password since I was thinking of things ending in or... hmm new fixation gamling because of game but doesnt fit and your clues tend to... ditto Turin for flawed hero...

[Pervinca Took]

Yes I couldn't make it work but tend to fixate which stymied me on the password since I was thinking of things ending in or... hmm new fixation gamling because of game but doesnt fit and your clues tend to... ditto Turin for flawed hero...

GAMLING is correct!

Gaming = a leisure pursuit. The letters L and R are liquids (just as P and B are plosives). Add an L to gaming and you get Gamling, (incidentally, a rather lovely small part in the BBC dramatisation: "I will hold the gates of Helm as long as my old bones have vigour in them!")

Turin is not correct, but there's another flawed hero who might come to mind ....

GAFFER GAMGEE: Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
ORODRETH: Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
T: Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
GAMLING: A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

GAMLING is correct!

Gaming = a leisure pursuit. The letters L and R are liquids (just as P and B are plosives). Add an L to gaming and you get Gamling, (incidentally, a rather lovely small part in the BBC dramatisation: "I will hold the gates of Helm as long as my old bones have vigour in them!")

Turin is not correct, but there's another flawed hero who might come to mind ....

GAFFER GAMGEE: Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
ORODRETH: Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
T: Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
GAMLING: A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.


Oh so clever....and I did four years of linguistics at degree level and it never occurred...plank. gah

[Mithalwen]

Thorin, Turgon...
Err

[Pervinca Took]

It's Thorin.

Take the Old English letter "thorn" for the "ancient character." (Courtesy of Microsoft Word: Þ).

"I" sounds like "aye" (= approval), but not in the name Thorin, where it is a short "i" - hence "heard (or maybe not)."

Thorin is a flawed hero.

Well done, and over to you!

GAFFER GAMGEE: Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
ORODRETH: Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
THORIN: Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
GAMLING: A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

Ohni really am thick thorn is my second favourite archaic letter after ash. I used to own a domain called ashthorn. Splendid cles though..just me being dim.

[Pervinca Took]

Not dim at all - remember me not being able to guess Celebrindal for ages? And not knowing what an epesse was and having to look it up?

I wonder if Oakenshield is an epesse. It seems to act more like a surname, but I suppose dwarves don't really have those.

[Galadriel55]

Well done Mith! I was thinking, sort of, when I had time, but I was quite hopeless. Excited to try yours now! :D

[Mithalwen]

I thiink it is since it refers to him specifically and otherwise Dwarves seem to use the son of... and house of .... however it is that sort of nickname that developed into surnames

[Mithalwen]

1 ERIADOR Time New Look creator juggled in Middle Earth.
2 LITTLE DELVING Cursory investigation in the Shire
3 FINELLACH French end a measure of endless pain giving starlight another name.
4 HITHLAIN Frozen rain rearranged with thin material.
5 ELPHIR Old record heir smashed himself?
6 LAMEDON Scholar crippled in Gondor.
7 MUNDBURG Gondor's capital!~ according to the neighbours.

[Pervinca Took]

Wheeee!! Password time again.

6. Lamedon?

[Mithalwen]

Well it took my mnd of the rather nailbiting Laura Robson match at Wimbledon.
Oh and Lamedon is correct..sorry i edited the original post to correct a typo.

[Pervinca Took]

Going to guess Little Delving for 2 - but it is a guess!

[Mithalwen]

A correct one! And fairly self explanatory

[Pervinca Took]

7 Gondor's capital!~ according to the neighbours.

I can't find a pun-type answer in the form of a place in Gondor which has an element of "money" or "great" (as in "It's great!) for the "capital" part of the clue.

I wonder if it might be Osgiliath, the original capital of Gondor, as agreed at the time by its two neighbours, (Isildur in Minas Ithil and Anarion in Minas Anor). Osgiliath was situated between these two cities.

[Mithalwen]

ISorry have another go. I think the clue is "true so will hold off on hints for a bit.

[Galadriel55]

I would guess Mundburg for 7, because, though Minas Tirith isn't strictly the capital, it's the major city. Have to think about the other ones.

[Pervinca Took]

I thought Minas Tirith was considered to be the capital by the time of LOTR. (And Mundburg is what the neighbours in Rohan call it - and they certainly seem to think of it as the capital of Gondor). (Did Middle-earth have capital cities, strictly speaking, in the sense that we use the term, or just "chief cities"?)

Mith, I'm quite relieved I was wrong, because the only names ending in O I know of that kind of length are Sulimo, Ringlo and Singollo - and L as the second letter rules those out.

P.S. Just a guess - could Elfhelm be the password?

[Mithalwen]

Both correct. I felt that Minas Tirith was the capital at the time of LOTR where the term is used since Osgiiath is an outpost and Denethor rules from Minas Tirith

[Pervinca Took]

I'm going to guess Helcaraxe for 4, but only because rearranging "frozen rain" doesn't work. I can't completely make the clue work, but we do refer to being on "thin ice" and I suppose the Grinding Ice rearranged the Noldor, or got rearranged a bit during their crossing ....

(I assume, of course, that I am dead wrong).

[Pervinca Took]

3 F French end a measure of endless pain giving starlight another name.

Finellach - another name for Gil-Galad (the latter meaning starlight, as Frodo says before Sam sings the song about him around the camp fire).

FIN (French word for end) + ELL (a measure - Sam uses it to measure rope) + ACH (ohhhh - ache without an E - no wonder trying to put PA or PAI into the answer didn't work. I thought at first it meant "Ach!" as an expression of pain, and couldn't quite work in the "endless" bit).

[Mithalwen]

Finellach is right for reasons given. Helcaraxe is wrong. You are into the harder ones IMO but I think the clue is fair so I will let you have another go.

[Pervinca Took]

Finellach has to be the obscurest of all the Fins! It took a bit of trawling to find that one.

P.S. Isn't it Mundburg, not Mundberg?

[Mithalwen]

It is but I needed to up the ante! And I am having a Giglalad phase atm. I also suspected the password might be easy to pick with the fairly straight forward L clues so I expected there to be a bit of help there with the others.

[Pervinca Took]

This is why I love the Password thread - lots more clues at once and sometimes you get the first letter to help. More like a real cryptic crossword.

[Mithalwen]

A full cryptic would be a challenge to set perhaps more than do!

[Galadriel55]

#4 is the wood near anorien, the name just slipped my mind. Halifirien?

[Mithalwen]

No ..not halfirien..the clue is a tighter fit than that.

[Nerwen]

Hithlain? (With an anagram of “hail” for the "frozen rain” part.)

[Mithalwen]

Yes. Hithlain isan anagram of hail + thin and is the material used to make Lorien rope. Well done.

[Pervinca Took]

Nice one! Hithlain and mithril (and lebethron, and that metal that Eol used) were in the back of my mind as there are so few original materials named in the books, but I couldn't make the clue fit. I was only seeing ice and icicle, and couldn't see hail.

[Galadriel55]

1 E Time New Look creator juggled in Middle Earth.

ERIADOR (era+dior)

[Mithalwen]

I know I am on a self confessed Ereinion kick but not enough to give his spear a silent aitch.

[Pervinca Took]

I know I am on a self confessed Ereinion kick but not enough to give his spear a silent aitch.

?

:confused: (I typed confused, but that emoticon just looks miserable).

Did you cross-post with Galadriel? Is Eriador correct?

[Mithalwen]

Oops sorry ....bad Mamawolf ...

Right well the last one is not such a great clue so should I improve it or will you have stab?

[Pervinca Took]

ERIADOR (era+dior)

I was barking up the wrong forest, never mind the wrong tree! I looked up the creator of New Look and Wikipedia said Tom Singh ....

Right well the last one is not such a great clue so should I improve it or will you have stab?

Trying to smash up "old record heir" into one of those masses of Numenorean kings isn't getting me very far. (Then again, I'm not very good on little-known Numenorean kings, and tend to think that's what a person might be when I can't find a name I know).

[Mithalwen]

Hmm maybe right sort of tree wrong forest? For now I will say it follows the sam pattern as the latt two clues . It is the lack of a distinct straight clue which is tricksy and which I may clarify.

[Pervinca Took]

I assumed the straight bit of the clue was "himself" and indicated a male character.

[Mithalwen]

It does but more specfically an heir which is part of both the straight and cryptic aspects.

[Pervinca Took]

The nearest I can get at present is Elrohir. I don't know which twin was born first (and in fact don't remember offhand if they are twins), but at any rate it only takes care of the heir, and not the old. Eldarion seems more obvious straight-clue-wise, and has old in it, but not heir. And neither seem to refer to records, either of the disc or the archive variety. ;)

Bank to think tank.

P.S. Unless "lore" can count as an old record, and can be smashed into Eorl.

[Mithalwen]

Not Elrohir though in one way you are ver close. He and Elladan are twins and since Elladan is usually named first I assume he is the first born.The chap you are after With an exra e it could have been but as it happens you need the other sort of record.

Not Eorl either...

[Pervinca Took]

If Elrohir was slightly close, I'm wondering about Elured and Elurin.

I wonder if the "record" part is an element like LP or EP.

It can't be Ereinion - no h. Actually no h in the others, either!

No, none of them work. ;)

[Mithalwen]

You wonder correctly about the record. But that isnt the way that Elrohir was close...he was warm but Elladan, Elured and Lurin and even my current darling would be rqually tepid.

[Pervinca Took]

ELPHIR - eldest son of Prince Imrahil.

(Courtesy of Tolkien Gateway).

[Mithalwen]

Bingo...yes on the greyscale minute font om my kindle I nearly read Elphir for Elrohir. Well done ! And to Nerwen and Galadriel .

[Pervinca Took]

Thank you - that was a good password! And excellent clues.

Here's one I made earlier:


1. Highway disturbed for a prolific writer.
2. Ethic shaken to shed light.
3. Gulf around complicated blow for this further complicated maiden.
4. Fairies’ midwife adds breathing organ for a purposeful wanderer.
5. Soared around to locate a mead-hall.
6. Hair loss from anxiety reveals a rare female.

[Mithalwen]

I will guess Mablung for four. Bit of Shakespear I do remember! Queen Mab ..ranger of Ithilien or Thingol's lieutenant.

[Pervinca Took]

Well done! I will edit your answer in later. Have to pop out for an hour or so.

Edit: now done.

1. Highway disturbed for a prolific writer.
2. Ethic shaken to shed light.
3. Gulf around complicated blow for this further complicated maiden.
MABLUNG: Fairies’ midwife adds breathing organ for a purposeful wanderer.
5. Soared around to locate a mead-hall.
6. Hair loss from anxiety reveals a rare female.

[Mithalwen]

Might one be Dora Baggins recipient of the wastr paper basket? Dora is an anagram of road.

[Galadriel55]

5. Edoras (anagram of soared)

[Galadriel55]

And is the password Dolmed?

[Pervinca Took]

Well done, all correct. Sorry guys, the computer was playing up last night and I couldn't get in and post.

DORA (BAGGINS): Highway disturbed for a prolific writer.
O: Ethic shaken to shed light.
L: Gulf around complicated blow for this further complicated maiden.
MABLUNG: Fairies’ midwife adds breathing organ for a purposeful wanderer.
EDORAS: Soared around to locate a mead-hall.
D: Hair loss from anxiety reveals a rare female.

[Mithalwen]

I had to look up Dolmed... bad Tolkienista...

Is 2 Ormal...anagram of moral and after a bit or memory digging the lamp that wasn't Iluin
And I fear 3 could be She who raises my blood pressure, anagram of lune and hit, dozy selfish Felagund murdering canary daughter of Thingol.

[Pervinca Took]

Both correct. I came across Dolmed when looking through the names index of The Silmarillion, and liked it so much I wanted to make a password out of it.

anagram of lune and hit, dozy selfish Felagund murdering canary daughter of Thingol.

Yes, put "Lune" around a mixed up version of "hit," then complicate it a bit further by shifting around the n and the e.

Luthien doesn't make my blood boil, but she and Beren aren't my favourites, and neither is their story. Nor is Turin.

It's the Fins who really move me and are my favourites in the Sil. Fingolfin, Finrod Felagund, and I have a lot of time for Fingon, too.

There's something rather special about guys with names beginning with F in Tolkien.

And now: over to Galadriel! Whoops - hang on - not just yet - there's one more clue to be guessed:

DORA (BAGGINS): Highway disturbed for a prolific writer.
ORMAL: Ethic shaken to shed light.
LUTHIEN: Gulf around complicated blow for this further complicated maiden.
MABLUNG: Fairies’ midwife adds breathing organ for a purposeful wanderer.
EDORAS: Soared around to locate a mead-hall.
D: Hair loss from anxiety reveals a rare female.

[Mithalwen]

Both correct. I came across Dolmed when looking through the names index of The Silmarillion, and liked it so much I wanted to make a password out of it.

Luthien doesn't make my blood boil, but she and Beren aren't my favourites, and neither is their story. Nor is Turin.

It's the Fins who really move me and are my favourites in the Sil. Fingolfin, Finrod Felagund, and I have quite a lot of time for Fingon, too.

There's something rather special about guys with names beginning with F in Tolkien.

!

What about the last D?

Yes..I would add Finellach to that list.. and Finarfin for having the courage to turn back. Glorfindel is good too..no wonder elves hace a thing about nice hair... Tuor wins over his cousin for me..

[Pervinca Took]

What about the last D?

Yes..I would add Finellach to that list.. and Finarfin for having the courage to turn back. Glorfindel is good too..no wonder elves hace a thing about nice hair... Tuor wins over his cousin for me..

Yes, it often takes more courage to turn back than to go on. It did feel just a little like he was deserting his son and brother, though ... I'll have to read it again and think what I feel next time.

Would agree. Always been fond of Gil-Galad. The G's are mostly a great bunch too (the best villain is one of them, but also Grima, who doesn't really have any redeeming features at all).

And of course there is Faramir - and my favourite of the whole lot, Frodo.

Tuor's cousin - is that Turin? Feeling dim today.

Mith - see my edit, made once I'd realised there was still the last clue to go.

[Galadriel55]

Would agree. Always been fond of Gil-Galad. The G's are mostly a great bunch too (the best villain is one of them, but also Grima, who doesn't really have any redeeming features at all).

Hmm, I wouldn't say that. I think he gets his fair share of pathos at the end of the book.

Tuor's cousin - is that Turin? Feeling dim today.

Yes. Turin's my favourite, but no one shares my POV. :)

I'll guess DIS for the last one, simply because her name starts with D and she's the only known Dwarf female. I guess it's distress - tress = dis.

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed it is - over to you, Galadriel!

Hmm, I wouldn't say that. I think he gets his fair share of pathos at the end of the book.

OK - I admit that Lotho probably didn't taste very nice.

DORA (BAGGINS): Highway disturbed for a prolific writer.
ORMAL: Ethic shaken to shed light.
LUTHIEN: Gulf around complicated blow for this further complicated maiden.
MABLUNG: Fairies’ midwife adds breathing organ for a purposeful wanderer.
EDORAS: Soared around to locate a mead-hall.
DIS: Hair loss from anxiety reveals a rare female.

EDIT:

Yes. Turin's my favourite, but no one shares my POV.

I don't dislike Turin. Actually, I really want to slap his mum, for loving one child more than another and for telling him that Laughter is dead in the house because Urwen is dead and then saying in what seems to me like mardy resentment: "But you live still, son of Hurin (or was it Morwen?), and so does the enemy that has done this to us." And yes, I know she's just lost her daughter.

[Mithalwen]

Turin's is a great story but he is ao bloody minded it ia hard not to think s ome of his woes are down to self not Morgoth. AND HE KILLS BELEG..Beleg another noble self sacrificing elf.. Finarfin at least returns to wife....

[Pervinca Took]

Well, like I said (sort of), I in part blame his mother for the personality he developed.

Actually, I wonder if there's a very slight tone of the goading mother/wife figure of the Norse sagas in Morwen.

[Mithalwen]

Oh Morwen is a pill...ugh

I know Tolkien idolised his own mother but there are so many mothers who fail their children albeit often inadvertantly by dying that I can't help wondering if there was some latent resentment. Mind you for a good catholuc there is quite a bitvof wife abandonment too.