Password

[Pervinca Took]

So, given that there *is* no theme, (it's only fairly recently that passwords have had themes), how about a guess at a password?

[Huinesoron]

Okay. The 4x4 square seems important, but I don't think a 16-letter password is likely. So it's probably another 4-letter word. But it can't be from the initial letters, because then the square is irrelevant. So...

... this is your revenge for the Dagorlad Wacky Races, isn't it...?

... is it ROSE, from the final letters?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

___R: Scent loses pilgrim for him.
ULMO: Muppet initially changed for him.
DAIS: The high table at Rivendell was on one of these!
OSSE: Wilful vassal of reformed Muppet.

I'm not generally capable of anything as organised as revenge. ;)

But tell me ... which king would you see as Dick Dastardly?

[Huinesoron]

Has to be Thranduil. You just know he'd have set up some elaborate trap for Bilbo if he'd known he was wandering around. (Legolas can be Muttley.)

As for the final word... I'll start off the guessing with 'him' being DOUR (as several people are in Middle-earth), having been 'odour' and losing the initial O. I don't know why O would be a pilgrim, but it's the only guess I've got so far.

EDIT: Oh. Oh. DIOR, because the full name of the perfume is Christian Dior. Phew; I'm glad there are so few four-letter Middle-earth names.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

DIOR: Scent loses pilgrim for him.
ULMO: Muppet initially changed for him.
DAIS: The high table at Rivendell was on one of these!
OSSE: Wilful vassal of reformed Muppet.

And Christian was the pilgrim in 'The Pilgrim's Progress.'

They're pretty lame passwords. There are just two of them. :D

I think Dudo is the brother of Dora and Drogo, or something.

I had a thing at one point about making perfect squares of characters/Middle-earth words for some of my passwords. I wanted to make the diagonals M-e words as well. But the best I could ever do was 4 four-letter answers and the first and last columns. And on this last one, I even had to include the word dais' to make it work! So I am now going to retire from square passwords.

Over to Huinesoron again!

[Huinesoron]

I am so glad I didn't have to guess Dudo. Stars above, those Hobbit family trees are a nightmare...

I feel like a perfect square password should be possible... perhaps a computer could be tasked with finding one? That does assume there are enough 4-letter names in Middle-earth. (You just know I'm going to end up trying this...)

Okay, moving on:

1. In the dark, send a message for the fastest bearer.
2. Only the greatest can slay the steadfast, if you replace half his ring with another article.
3. From Goldilocks to the evening he rides on.
4. Black bird croaks with its head and tail cut off.
5. His catlike tread fills us with dread, forgiveness unfulfilled.
6. In the storm, the king's kings are named only for the king.
7. One staff given to two friends.
8. The King rode her in - but never say die!
9. Stubby, slow, and not happy enough to go.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

4. Roac?

[Pervinca Took]

7. Arod? A + rod, whom Legolas and Gimli rode?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Shadowfax (Shadow + fax).

Theme: Beasties.

[Pervinca Took]

I wonder if 8 is Roheryn (similar to 'rode her in'). Aragorn's horse. (Take out 'die' and you are only missing the 'y').

[Huinesoron]

Shadowfax - In the dark, send a message for the fastest bearer.
2. Only the greatest can slay the steadfast, if you replace half his ring with another article.
3. From Goldilocks to the evening he rides on.
Roac - Black bird croaks with its head and tail cut off.
5. His catlike tread fills us with dread, forgiveness unfulfilled.
6. In the storm, the king's kings are named only for the king.
Arod - One staff given to two friends.
Roheryn - The King rode her in - but never say die!
9. Stubby, slow, and not happy enough to go.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes!

I apologise for the abundance of equines; Tolkien really liked naming horses, it seems.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Password: SHARP-EARS.

One of Merry's ponies, named by Tom Bombadil.

[Huinesoron]

Shadowfax - In the dark, send a message for the fastest bearer.
H - Only the greatest can slay the steadfast, if you replace half his ring with another article.
A - From Goldilocks to the evening he rides on.
Roac - Black bird croaks with its head and tail cut off.
P - His catlike tread fills us with dread, forgiveness unfulfilled.
E - In the storm, the king's kings are named only for the king.
Arod - One staff given to two friends.
Roheryn - The King rode her in - but never say die!
S - Stubby, slow, and not happy enough to go.

I'm impressed! (See what I meant about equines?) Only five more to go!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is H HUAN? And does he only slay the steadfast because he takes (nearly) half the letters of 'his ring' from Hurin and replaces them with 'an?'

A for ASFALOTH, with Glorfindel as Goldilocks riding him to Frodo and Company in the evening? (Just so long as evening isn't a reference to Arwen (grrrrrr!!))

[Huinesoron]

Shadowfax - In the dark, send a message for the fastest bearer.
Huan - Only the greatest can slay the steadfast, if you replace half his ring with another article.
Asfaloth - From Goldilocks to the evening he rides on.
Roac - Black bird croaks with its head and tail cut off.
P - His catlike tread fills us with dread, forgiveness unfulfilled.
E - In the storm, the king's kings are named only for the king.
Arod - One staff given to two friends.
Roheryn - The King rode her in - but never say die!
S - Stubby, slow, and not happy enough to go.

#2: 'Only the greatest [wolf] can slay' is a straight clue. If you take half of 'ring' (ie, the 'ri') from Hurin, and replace it with the article 'a', you get Huan.

#3: 'Ride on' is apparently the translation of Noro lim, so 'he rides on' is the straight clue. Goldilocks is a translation of Glorfindel. As to whether Arwen's in this one... uh, do I have the right to remain silent? :D

The remaining three come from three different books, so that's fun.

hS

[Nerwen]

I believe #9 is STYBBA? (Merry's pony, too slow to charge into battle on- and I think the name means "Stubby").

[Pervinca Took]

P = PARD, I think. Mentioned in the poem 'Cat' from 'The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil.'

(Pardon minus on and short for leopard).

Was going to guess Stybba, but stumped on 'not quite happy.'

[Nerwen]

And could #6 be EAGLES (OF MANWË)?

[Huinesoron]

Shadowfax - In the dark, send a message for the fastest bearer.
Huan - Only the greatest can slay the steadfast, if you replace half his ring with another article.
Asfaloth - From Goldilocks to the evening he rides on.
Roac - Black bird croaks with its head and tail cut off.
Pard - His catlike tread fills us with dread, forgiveness unfulfilled.
Eagles of Manwe - In the storm, the king's kings are named only for the king.
Arod - One staff given to two friends.
Roheryn - The King rode her in - but never say die!
Stybba - Stubby, slow, and not happy enough to go.

Theme: Named animals.

Ping, ping, ping! Stybba is not Merry enough to go along (because, well, Merry got to go along).

I believe that's back to Pervinca for getting Sharp-ears.

hS

[Huinesoron]

An update on the Perfect Password Square project: my generator (written entirely in Excel) has spat out its first candidate!

NGAW
ARCA
LOTR
ARAS

(With vertical words NALA, GROR, ACTA, and WARS.)

For obvious reasons, I didn't think it was worth saving up for use as a password... :D Ngaw is an Elvish root word, Arca is Quenya, Aras is Sindarin, Nala is Khuzdul, Acta is Latin(!)... throw in an acronym, a dwarf, and a single English word, and we have our set.

The usability of the generator could, paradoxically, be improved by having less words to choose from. Not only did it take upwards of 15 minutes to come up with that (it starts from a random word, hence the initial N), but the wordlist consists of every 4-letter article name from Tolkien Gateway, plus the first word of every article that starts with a four letter word followed by a space (coming to around 1500 words, with repeats). Hence 'Acta', from Tolkien's Acta Senatus, a Latin report on a Latin debate in 1911.

But even so: I am pleased to confirm that a non-diagonal Perfect Square using Tolkienian words is indeed possible. ^_^

hS

UPDATE: Using a smaller and saner dataset (the Encyclopedia of Arda page-list, subjected to the same treatment), it is now merrily churning out perfect squares in a matter of seconds. Only one problem...

MAIA
AMAN
IANT
ANTS

... they're symmetrical!

Clearly need to check that column 1 isn't identical with row 1... back to the grindstone!

UPDATE 2: And now it's developed the trick of finding words that differ only by their last letter. It particularly enjoys when they're an a/e pair, because then it can use 'ents' and 'ants' as its Row/Column 4 results.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I'll post my previous two 4 x 4 passwords some time. (I could never get a 5 x 5 one that worked).

Meanwhile (in Gotham city):

1. He may want an objective, however confused.
2. Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
3. ‘I am legend,’ she might say, whilst troubled.
4. She’s a girl with mixed targets.
5. Monster that is lost gains note for her.
6. The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
7. Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
8. A dwarf and his provisions? He’s confused.
9. Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

[Huinesoron]

For #7: Lanthanum (La) and Europium (Eu) are both metals (they're both Lanthanides, even!), and mingle together to give Aule, noted (among other things) for creating the metal tilkal, used to forge the chain Angainor and bind Melkor.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. He may want an objective, however confused.
2. Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
3. ‘I am legend,’ she might say, whilst troubled.
4. She’s a girl with mixed targets.
5. Monster that is lost gains note for her.
6. The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
8. A dwarf and his provisions? He’s confused.
9. Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

I didn't know about La. I knew about Al (Aluminium, I hope) and looked up Europium ... but you have the correct end result and I have learned of two new (to me) metallic elements. :)

See how it goes for the moment. I may make one or two clues a little easier if people are still stumped, but I think I may have made my recent passwords a little too easy, rather than the reverse.

[Huinesoron]

#9: a hesitant guess at Lindir, which sounds pretty close to 'linger' (ie, hesitate). I would take the 'perhaps' to indicate that it's not that close a fit.

And, for the lack of any better ideas, the obvious answer to #2: Estella?

FAKEEDIT: Oh, it's a classical literature reference, isn't it? I get it!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
3. ‘I am legend,’ she might say, whilst troubled.
4. She’s a girl with mixed targets.
5. Monster that is lost gains note for her.
6. The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
8. A dwarf and his provisions? He’s confused.
9. Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

Can you give the literary reason for assuming that Estella would be Pip's girl?

Oh, hang on ... your 'fake edit' suggests that you know that Pip, the hero of 'Great Expectations,' loves Estella, the adopted daughter of Miss Havisham. :)

The answer to number 9 is nowhere near as sophisticated as Lindir. ;) Well, actually ... I guess the person is possibly *more* sophisticated ... but the method of getting there isn't. Your take on 'perhaps' is accurate, though. :D

[Pervinca Took]

1. He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
3. ‘I am legend,’ this hobbitlass might say, whilst troubled.
4. She’s a powerful girl, but with mixed targets.
5. Monster that is lost gains note for her.
6. The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
8. A dwarf and his provisions? Confuse a hobbit - especially an aristocratic one!
9. Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

I have made three of the unguessed clues (numbers 3, 4 and 8) much easier. I'll leave the remaining ones as they are for now, and see if you can get the password, and so the initial letters to help you solve the last ones.

[Nerwen]

Is #8 RORIMAC (Brandybuck)? ("Ori" + "cram"?)

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed it is!

1. He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
3. ‘I am legend,’ this hobbitlass might say, whilst troubled.
4. She’s a powerful girl, but with mixed targets.
5. Monster that is lost gains note for her.
6. The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
RORIMAC: A dwarf and his provisions? Confuse a hobbit - especially an aristocratic one!
9. Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

[Galadriel55]

9. ERLING - an anagram of linger? I was initially looking into things that had "er" for hesitation, but came across this hobbit.

[Pervinca Took]

Erling is a new one to me ... where did you find him?

Now ... the 'er' for hesitation is right, but the 'perhaps' is because it is similar to 'er' and could sound the same as it, but does not in this particular name.

(If it had been 'linger' I'd have put the same tense - hesitate - in the clue).

[Huinesoron]

#9: IRMO? Er for a mo(ment)?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

That's the one!

1. He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
3. ‘I am legend,’ this hobbitlass might say, whilst troubled.
4. She’s a powerful girl, but with mixed targets.
5. Monster that is lost gains note for her.
6. The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
RORIMAC: A dwarf and his provisions? Confuse a hobbit - especially an aristocratic one!
IRMO: Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

[Galadriel55]

Erling is a new one to me ... where did you find him?

Dug him up, he's one of Sam's kin.

Now we're getting an interesting mix of Valar and hobbits. KEMENTARI for the password? Maybe it's another couples one again.

[Pervinca Took]

K: He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
M: ‘I am legend,’ this hobbitlass might say, whilst troubled.
E: She’s a powerful girl, but with mixed targets.
N: Monster that is lost gains note for her.
T: The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
RORIMAC: A dwarf and his provisions? Confuse a hobbit - especially an aristocratic one!
IRMO: Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

[THEME: SPOUSES]

[Nerwen]

Rorimac was married to MENEGILDA Goold- whose given name is an anagram of "I am legend".

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed so!

K: He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
MENEGILDA: ‘I am legend,’ this hobbitlass might say, whilst troubled.
E: She’s a powerful girl, but with mixed targets.
N: Monster that is lost gains note for her.
T: The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
RORIMAC: A dwarf and his provisions? Confuse a hobbit - especially an aristocratic one!
IRMO: Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

[THEME: SPOUSES]

[Nerwen]

And then, as noted, Estella wed Merry- whose "real" name is KALIMAC ("lack aim").

[Pervinca Took]

Quite.

KALIMAC: He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
MENEGILDA: ‘I am legend,’ this hobbitlass might say, whilst troubled.
E: She’s a powerful girl, but with mixed targets.
N: Monster that is lost gains note for her.
T: The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
RORIMAC: A dwarf and his provisions? Confuse a hobbit - especially an aristocratic one!
IRMO: Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

[THEME: SPOUSES]

[Nerwen]

#4 must be ESTË to go with Irmo, but I can't get the cryptic part. And I think #5 could be NESSA ("Ness" as in "Loch Ness Monster" + "A"), though that would make the last one TULKAS, and again I can't make the clue work.

[Pervinca Took]

OK.

ESTE is correct. Can you find a synonym for targets?

TULKAS is correct. Can you find a synonym for stem?

NESSA is correct, but what is the nickname of the Loch Ness monster, and how might you lose 'that is?'

[Pervinca Took]

KALIMAC: He may want an objective, however confused.
ESTELLA: Merry’s gal, not Pip’s, as one might expect.
MENEGILDA: ‘I am legend,’ this hobbitlass might say, whilst troubled.
ESTE: She’s a powerful girl, but with mixed targets.
NESSA: Monster that is lost gains note for her.
TULKAS: The name has a mixed stem, you hear. In confusion, see him.
AULE: Two metals mingle for a master metallurgist.
RORIMAC: A dwarf and his provisions? Confuse a hobbit - especially an aristocratic one!
IRMO: Sounds like he hesitated for an instant, perhaps.

[THEME: SPOUSES]

ESTE is an anagram of TEES (golf targets).

Stem is STALK. Mix it. Add 'u' and mix again for TULKAS.

Nessie minus 'ie' for 'that is,' plus A, gives NESSA.

Well done all. Over to Galadriel. :)

[Galadriel55]

The last few masterpieces are hard to follow, so I won't even go there. This one should be quick. I have to warn you that the letters are not lined up, and I will highlight them as words are guessed correctly.



1. Feline noise on half-mouth in slimy swamp.
2. Hear they eat backwards, but they prefer drink.
3. Hangout after one cut off trampled tramper.
4. Children stop in the entrance suddenly, confused.

[Pervinca Took]

Not sure of all the elements, but is one Emyn Muil?

EDIT: No! MEWLIPS!

[Galadriel55]

Indeed!

1. MEWLIP: Feline noise on half-mouth in slimy swamp.
2. Hear they eat backwards, but they prefer drink.
3. Hangout after one cut off trampled tramper.
4. Children stop in the entrance suddenly, confused.

[Pervinca Took]

Not sure about eating backwards, but ENTS drink rather than eat.

[Galadriel55]

Not sure aout eating backwards, but ENTS drink rather than eat.

Can't argue with that. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

But ENTS isn't the answer?

[Galadriel55]

But ENTS isn't the answer?

"ENTS" is not the answer. As you said yourself, it doesn't account for the eating backwards part.

[Nerwen]

Not ENYD either? (Sounds like "dine" backwards).

By the way, that was a great- if challenging!- password, Pervinca!

[Galadriel55]

Not ENYD either? (Sounds like "dine" backwards).

Indeed so! Will edit password in a bit. The letter is Y.

EDIT: Here it is:

1. MEWLIP: Feline noise on half-mouth in slimy swamp.
2. ENYD: Hear they eat backwards, but they prefer drink.
3. Hangout after one cut off trampled tramper.
4. Children stop in the entrance suddenly, confused.

[Pervinca Took]

It's not MYTH, is it?

[Galadriel55]

It's not MYTH, is it?

Indeed so. :)



1. MEWLIP: Feline noise on half-mouth in slimy swamp.
2. ENYD: Hear they eat backwards, but they prefer drink.
3. T: Hangout after one cut off trampled tramper.
4. H: Children stop in the entrance suddenly, confused.

[Pervinca Took]

Hangout ... a place for a hangout, perhaps? Am stuck on the last two clues.

I suppose one could hang out in/of a TALAN?

[Galadriel55]

Sorry, Talan os nowhere near the right answer.

Keep in mind that the letters are not necessarily the first ones in a word, and that the theme is Myth. If you're still stuck I will add a couple hints.

[Huinesoron]

#3: Your hangout could be your regular haunt, pointing to OLIPHAUNT, which is definitely a tramper. I can't parse 'one cut off trampled' into 'olip', though.

hS

[Galadriel55]

That he is! "Trampled" is an anagram marker. Can you find the pieces now?


1. MEWLIP: Feline noise on half-mouth in slimy swamp.
2. ENYD: Hear they eat backwards, but they prefer drink.
3. OLIPHAUNT: Hangout after one cut off trampled tramper.
4. H: Children stop in the entrance suddenly, confused.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah ... I + lop.

Neat work, Nerwen! I would never have thought of haunt or oliphaunt.

[Nerwen]

Ah ... I + lop.

Neat work, Nerwen! I would never have thought of haunt or oliphaunt.
That was Huey.

[Pervinca Took]

Well, neat work Huey then. :)

And neat work Nerwen for all the times I've forgotten to say so. :D

[Pervinca Took]

Does 4 have anything to do with HIN/HINI, the elvish word for children?

Entrance could be 'door' or maybe just 'in.'

But in just one sense of the word, confusion is lacking. ;)

And how to synonymise 'suddenly,' unless it's just that one of the elements ends or cuts off abruptly? I thought of 'now' as a sort of synonym, but can't work it in.

[Galadriel55]

Not Hini or anything like it. You're overthinking. Look at the theme and the previous clues, work with the straight clue.

[Huinesoron]

I'm actually wondering at HOBBITS, since they were seen as myths by the Men of the southern realms, and are repeatedly referred to as children. But I can't make it fit the cryptic even slightly.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Just to get it on this page:

That he is! "Trampled" is an anagram marker. Can you find the pieces now?


1. MEWLIP: Feline noise on half-mouth in slimy swamp.
2. ENYD: Hear they eat backwards, but they prefer drink.
3. OLIPHAUNT: Hangout after one cut off trampled tramper.
4. H: Children stop in the entrance suddenly, confused.

[Galadriel55]

I'm actually wondering at HOBBITS, since they were seen as myths by the Men of the southern realms, and are repeatedly referred to as children. But I can't make it fit the cryptic even slightly.

hS

You're on the right track. Reason you can't make it fit is because that's not the right word.

[Pervinca Took]

I was trying Pheriannath without success, but maybe HOLBYTLAN (which I had forgotten) has the elements required.

It has HALT.

And most of LOBBY.

[Galadriel55]

Indeed so!

1. MEWLIP: Feline noise on half-mouth in slimy swamp.
2. ENYD: Hear they eat backwards, but they prefer drink.
3. OLIPHAUNT: Hangout after one cut off trampled tramper.
4. HOLBYTLA: Children stop in the entrance suddenly, confused.


Back over to you!

[Pervinca Took]

OK then.

1. Butterflies? Confused heroine finds direction twice, and she's radiant.
2. He appears to die, classically perturbed.
3. A troubled sound of pain gives him away.
4. Mutilate, seize ring, but lose an article? Such chaos! Is he really that violent, or just very powerful?
5. Find him in a rotating sauna.

[Galadriel55]

3. ARGON, an anagram of groan?

[Pervinca Took]

Right method, wrong guy. Try a different synonym (and maybe slightly less intense pain).

[Nerwen]

NÁMO ("Moan"), then?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Butterflies? Confused heroine finds direction twice, and she's radiant.
2. He appears to die, classically perturbed.
NAMO: A troubled sound of pain gives him away.
4. Mutilate, seize ring, but lose an article? Such chaos! Is he really that violent, or just very powerful?
5. Find him in a rotating sauna.

[Galadriel55]

Ok, poorly reasoned guess that 5 is SAURON, based on the fact that you can find all the letters in the last two words of the clue.

[Pervinca Took]

Not Sauron. You need a synonym.

[Pervinca Took]

Pssst ... as I wouldn't want those in the UK to be at an unfair advantage, you might want to Google 'Butterflies' ....

[Mithalwen]

ARIEN -radiant being Sun Maia and anagram of Ria with initials of North and East. Ria was heroine of the wonderful Seventies tragi-comedy series Butterflies the theme song of which I now have as an earworm

[Pervinca Took]

It's Mithalwen! :)

ARIEN: Butterflies? Confused heroine finds direction twice, and she's radiant.
2. He appears to die, classically perturbed.
NAMO: A troubled sound of pain gives him away.
4. Mutilate, seize ring, but lose an article? Such chaos! Is he really that violent, or just very powerful?
5. Find him in a rotating sauna.

Indeed so. Late 70's and early 80's British sitcom starring Wendy Craig as Ria, the heroine, and Geoffrey Palmer as her husband. I looked it up and I think it ran from 1978 to 1982.

(I have the earworm, too).

Regarding the earworm, apparently the theme tune was originally a Dolly Parton song.

[Huinesoron]

I'm really bad with anagrams... :-/

A bad guess for #4: if you mutilate 'grab band', you get 'ANGBAND', which is the home of someone both violent and powerful.

... wait, hang on. Is the password AINUR?

And if so, is #2 IRMO, as an anagram of the Latin word mori, which I'm pretty sure is related to death?

... right, so #4 starts with MAUL, claims an O, loses the A, and is then scrambled to make ULMO.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

ARIEN: Butterflies? Confused heroine finds direction twice, and she's radiant.
IRMO: He appears to die, classically perturbed.
NAMO: A troubled sound of pain gives him away.
ULMO: Mutilate, seize ring, but lose an article? Such chaos! Is he really that violent, or just very powerful?
R: Find him in a rotating sauna.

Yes. 'Classically' to indicate the Latin, and 'mori' I believe literally means 'to die' in 'pro patria mori.' Well done!

I'm rather fond of clue 5. :)

[Huinesoron]

... ROMESTAMO is an anagram of 'steam room', isn't it? :D

I was pretty sure there were only two Ainur with R- names (the other being Radagast), but I couldn't find the clue in either of them until now. I'm properly impressed you spotted that! (And bonus points for using the Blue Wizards, of course.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

ARIEN: Butterflies? Confused heroine finds direction twice, and she's radiant.
IRMO: He appears to die, classically perturbed.
NAMO: A troubled sound of pain gives him away.
ULMO: Mutilate, seize ring, but lose an article? Such chaos! Is he really that violent, or just very powerful?
ROMESTAMO: Find him in a rotating sauna.

I did think of using Ungoliant for the U clue, but I think I read somewhere that she might not have been an Ainu/Maia.

Well done all, and especially Huinesoron! Over to you. :)

[Huinesoron]

I think Ungoliant was one of those features Tolkien never really integrated into the later conception of Middle-earth: she was first written as a primordial nature spirit, but didn't make the transition to Maiadom well.

Anyway!

1. - The darkness a pig had within.
2. - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. - Binding the triple element within.
5. - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. - ... or old women, it falls.

Enjoy!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Might this relate to the Release from Bondage (Lay of LEITHIAN)?

Three elements plus in, perhaps? Ti, H, Al?

[Huinesoron]

No -- but some of those thoughts are along the right track. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe the theme is linguistic elements and the binding clue is linked to 'krimpatul' from 'Agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.'

[Huinesoron]

Some of those thoughts are also on the right track. :D

('Some' should probably not be assumed to be plural here, though it could be; it means 'one or more'.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

6. Possible connection to sharku or Sharkey = old man?

[Huinesoron]

That thought, however, is not. :(

hS

[Pervinca Took]

4. ANGAINOR?

Na + Ag + In (within) + O. There's a spare R, but ....

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid not.

'Element' is singular.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Burzum for the darkness clue. The sound of 'boar' for the pig. :D

[Huinesoron]

Clever, but no.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Well, 5 seems to indicate Nazgul, deprived of ring and then of life. But the wings would seem to refer to its steed (the fell beast).

[Nerwen]

Well, 5 seems to indicate Nazgul, deprived of ring and then of life. But the wings would seem to refer to its steed (the fell beast).
Actually, that looks to me if it might be saying something like "take synonym for 'slave' (or name of a slave), anagrammize and remove letters to get a 'black-winged' creature". (Raven? Fell beast? Ancalagon? Thuringwethil? The famous Gundabad Warbats?) Or it could mean to do that in reverse.

[Pervinca Took]

Snaga means slave. There might be a way to get to Ancalagon ... losing 2 letters isn't a problem ... but there's a lot to add.

[Huinesoron]

No correct answers have been said. Nerwen is sort of poking in the right dorection, though.

hS

[Nerwen]

No correct answers have been said. Nerwen is sort of poking in the right dorection, though.

hS
"No correct answers"- does that include the suggestions I put in parenthesis?

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid so. I might have missed one, but I don't think anyone has said a word which answers any of the clues yet.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

'Binding the triple' ... I can't think of a triumvirate, but I wonder if this could refer to the binding of three kindreds in blood in a child of mixed union. I think Dior is the first of these, but Elrond and even Eldarion (just) qualify.

Whether we're looking for a whole element name or just its symbol, I do not know.

[Galadriel55]

'Binding the triple' ... I can't think of a triumvirate, but I wonder if this could refer to the binding of three kindreds in blood in a child of mixed union. I think Dior is the first of these, but Elrond and even Eldarion (just) qualify.

Whether we're looking for a whole element name or just its symbol, I do not know.

That clue is getting me fixated on Antananarivo, the only word I can think of to contain three of the same element scrambled and then some.

Whole elements tend to be long, and don't do well tripled. Unless it's not the element that is repeated thrice - but what then, "the" ? Thethethe. No one speaks with so many H's.

Tripling is easier with single letter elements. There are a bunch of words that contain three Ns, for instance, but they don't make sense with the rest of the clue.

[Pervinca Took]

The only other thing I had up my sleeve for 'binding' was HITHLAIN. It has Al and most of within, but ....

[Huinesoron]

'The triple element' is a single item and is not used more than once in the word.

Still haven't seen any correct answers.

(Let me know if I'm either being too stingy or too profligate with hints, by the way.)

hS

EDIT: To bring it to the new page:

1. - The darkness a pig had within.
2. - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. - Binding the triple element within.
5. - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. - ... or old women, it falls.

[Pervinca Took]

6. NUMEN, the Quenya for west? The '...or' to be what completes it to make something that falls? Or NUMENOR itself?

Ohh - new men or old women (for the 'old women' element).

---------------------------

Thinking of clue 3, there are some Elvish insults on this thread (below), but I'm not sure how purely Tolkien they are:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5379

[Huinesoron]

1. - The darkness a pig had within.
2. - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. - Binding the triple element within.
5. - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. N umenor - ... or old women, it falls.

We have our first answer! ('It falls' is the straight clue here, as in the Fall of Numenor.)

The thread you link to is distinctly Grelvish (that's Grey Company Elvish); the double-Ls are a dead giveaway. The Grey Company used both Quenya and Sindarin as a basis to make their own language (for an RP thing, I think); it's not very accurate to Tolkien.

#3 is an Elvish word, and is definitely not a compliment.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I was trying 'crones' for old women at one point. :D

[Pervinca Took]

2. A guess at DOL BARAN. Baran is from paran, meaning bare. Not sure about straight hair, unless it's metaphorical hair (Dol Baran had heather on it, but not sure how 'straight' heather grows).

[Huinesoron]

Not Dol Baran, but you're in the right conceptual space.

hS

[Nerwen]

Ah, Grelvish! Takes me back...

Nice work on #6 from both you- a very outside-the-box clue.

Is #2 AMON LANC ("Bald hill") with a play on "lank"?

[Nerwen]

So "triple element" != "three different elements". What is a "triple element" then, we wonders?

[Huinesoron]

1. - The darkness a pig had within.
2. A mon Lanc - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. - Binding the triple element within.
5. - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. N umenor - ... or old women, it falls.

A bald hill with lank hair. Makes sense! :)

There is only one triple element, and I found it by looking at the periodic table on my wall.

hS

[Nerwen]

Lithium?

[Huinesoron]

I wouldn't need to look up to know that lithium is the third element. ;)

hS

[Nerwen]

I wouldn't need to look up to know that lithium is the third element. ;)

hS
Neither would I.:p But do you mean that's it?

[Huinesoron]

Sadly no. I /did/ have to look at thr table for the triple element.

[Galadriel55]

Maybe one of the 3-letter elements? Uub, Uut, Uuq, Uup, Uuh, [Uus], Uuo.

Maybe if you add some "binding" inside those letters you get the word. UTUMNO? But "tmn" is nonsense, it doesn't mean binding. (TNM is a system used to stage cancer, but I highly doubt that's relevant).

Edit: nevermind, there are more than one of these.

[Huinesoron]

I actually updated my periodic table with stickers, so it no longer has three-letter elements on it. Not a clue, just trivia. :)

It's not Utumno.

(I mean, I guess it is a clue, because I'm saying it's not a three-letter element abbreviation. But keep thinking!)

hS

[Galadriel55]

If it was a double element, it would be Bi. :p Maybe T[r]i? ;)


EDIT: just watch it be Lanthanum. Why? Cause when you get to La you trip and fall off the periodic table for a bit.

[Pervinca Took]

There's ozone, also called trioxygen, (O3), but I'm sure Hs wouldn't have to look that up. Do any other elements join in threes of their atoms?

I am tempted to ask if that is what's meant by triple element, but a) I believe O3 is classed as a molecule, and b) I don't think such things appear on the periodic table.

Googling doesn't yield anything for 'triple element' either.

I can only conclude that Hs is a very advanced chemist on the cusp of discoveries unknown to the rest of the world! :D

[Huinesoron]

Ozone is a molecule, and not what I'm looking for. (And to answer your question, [X]3 is a pretty rare structure, because the bonds have to be seriously strained to form it. Oxygen can only pull it off because oxygen is desperate to combine with literally anything.)

Galadriel55, that Lanthanum joke is terrible - I wish I'd thought of it! (Also not right.)

The triple element is named after a person - a real person, not a mythological figure. You can see what makes it triple right there on any decent periodic table. And it may help you to think like a Roman (though it may also utterly confuse you; it often does!).

hS

[Nerwen]

Ozone is a molecule, and not what I'm looking for. (And to answer your question, [X]3 is a pretty rare structure, because the bonds have to be seriously strained to form it. Oxygen can only pull it off because oxygen is desperate to combine with literally anything.)

Galadriel55, that Lanthanum joke is terrible - I wish I'd thought of it! (Also not right.)

The triple element is named after a person - a real person, not a mythological figure. You can see what makes it triple right there on any decent periodic table. And it may help you to think like a Roman (though it may also utterly confuse you; it often does!).

hS

Roentgenium?

[Pervinca Took]

*Goes looking for an element called Thricium.*

[Galadriel55]

*Goes looking for an element called Thricium.*

*Checks for an element called Iiicium*

[Pervinca Took]

Like a Roman ... maybe it has three I's in it ... 3 in Roman Numerals?

Einsteinium is the only one that works for that.

Maybe we have to look up the Latin word for 'three.'

...

Tribus, which doesn't seem to work either.

[Galadriel55]

The triple I is what I was going for too. But Iridium too at least fits your way of counting. I was hoping for something with a more prominent iii.

[Pervinca Took]

I think Iridium was named after the goddess, Iris. Hs said the element we're looking for was named after a real person.

Wondering if the theme is the SECOND AGE, based on the two answers we currently have.

[Huinesoron]

Someone has named the correct element since I last posted!

...

That's all you're getting. :D

hS

[Nerwen]

Einsteinium or Roentgenium, then. Es or Rg.

And I guess whatever the theme is, it isn't SECOND AGE.

[Huinesoron]

Yep, one of those is the triple element. Poking the rest of the clue should yield up the final answer.

Not the Second Age, though technically I think all of the answers could apply to that Age.

hS

[Nerwen]

Yep, one of those is the triple element. Poking the rest of the clue should yield up the final answer.

Not the Second Age, though technically I think all of the answers could apply to that Age.

hS
Is it RING? Is the password SAURON?

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, ok. Rg is element number 111.

[Nerwen]

Ah, ok. Rg is element number 111.
Exactly. Element eleventy-one!:smokin:

Anyway, I should have said this before: my reasoning for the answer is that the clue really means "binding the triple element with 'in'", so R + IN + G.

[Pervinca Took]

I didn't see the numbers, because my phone was squishing the element names when I tried to view the periodic table, so I read a list of elements which didn't have them (or at least, not as obviously, if it did).

[Huinesoron]

Is it RING? Is the password SAURON?

Yes and yes!

1. S - The darkness a pig had within.
2. A mon Lanc - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. U - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. R ing - Binding the triple element within.
5. O - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. N umenor - ... or old women, it falls

Exactly. Element eleventy-one!:smokin:

Dang, I should've thought of that, I could have called it the party element.

Anyway, I should have said this before: my reasoning for the answer is that the clue really means "binding the triple element with 'in'", so R + IN + G.

Correct. And 'binding' is also the straight clue - as in, 'and in the darkness...'

hS

[Nerwen]

Yes and yes!

1. S - The darkness a pig had within.
2. A mon Lanc - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. U - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. R ing - Binding the triple element within.
5. O - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. N umenor - ... or old women, it falls



Dang, I should've thought of that, I could have called it the party element.



Correct. And 'binding' is also the straight clue - as in, 'and in the darkness...'

hS
Yes, I'd realised- very elegant clue!:cool:

Now what in Middle-earth can the others be? Maybe ORC for #6, as an anagram of CROW minus W?

[Galadriel55]

1. Shadow - "had" inside "sow".

Nerwen - nice work with the element! I didn't see the 111 at first, it took the explanation for me to catch on to that and the rest of the clue. That's a clever one. Hats off to you and HS for the creative clue!

[Huinesoron]

1. S hadow - The darkness a pig had within.
2. A mon Lanc - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. U - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. R ing - Binding the triple element within.
5. O rc - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. N umenor - ... or old women, it falls.

ORC and SHADOW, for exactly the reasons stated. Well done!

The final clue does not involve translating the opening phrase into Elvish.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Orcs I guess are slaves. Roac (a raven) minus a is orc. Trouble is, that's only one deprived (one letter, unless the Umlaut counts) and it isn't really tumbled.

[Pervinca Took]

Whoops! Too late. I must have been replying to an unrefreshed version of the thread.

Remaining clue might start 'Ulie ....'

[Huinesoron]

Remaining clue might start 'Ulie ....'

Surprisingly close! Now spell it like an elf.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I did.

Apart from the elvish letters.

[Nerwen]

Úlairi?

[Huinesoron]

I did.

Apart from the elvish letters.

The vowel sound in 'lie' is the same as that used by Legolas in Moria: 'Ai! Ai!' So...

Úlairi?

That.

(Phonetically, it's 'You lie really!', cut short. The meaning isn't entirely clear, but given that it's a Quenya name for the Nazgul, I figured 'insult' was a safe bet.)

1. S hadow - The darkness a pig had within.
2. A mon Lanc - How can it be both bald and straight of hair? A nigh-insurmountable problem.
3. U lairi - You speak not truth, in truth! An elvish insult cut short.
4. R ing - Binding the triple element within.
5. O rc - The slave tumbles, black-winged but doubly deprived.
6. N umenor - ... or old women, it falls.

[Theme: Things associated with Sauron.]

I'm genuinely impressed by how fast the clues fell once people found a way in. Good job, all! And over to Nerwen for getting the password.

hS

[Nerwen]

Here you go! Just a little one, this time.

1. Not a chance? Without doubt? That's the spirit! Though a little messed up (like the theme).
2. Fellow of dubious parentage sounds fishy and androgynous. No wonder he took a fall!
3. Despite family woes, she becomes sunny after an internal shakeup.
4. Confused requirement for a Northern deity results in early victim of internet-induced madness.

[Pervinca Took]

4. DENETHOR. Confused need + Thor. Is the internet madness because they had only just managed to produce CGI fire? But that's film/special effects, not internet, so ....

Oh, hang on ... Palantir for an early form of internet, and it's a significant part of what drives him to madness.

[Huinesoron]

#2 - GIL-GALAD has gills like a fish and is a gal-lad. But he's obviously the son of... er... Maglor, right? :D

hS

[Pervinca Took]

'Dead' for password and 'Eol' for the fishy clue? :D

Even though it's pronounced Ayol, not Eel.

Edit: gal/lad is indeed more androgenous-sounding.

Plus Eol was technically pushed/thrown.

[Pervinca Took]

3. Maybe ARIEN? In some versions she is Urwen ... the other Urwen's family had woes. Or the Valar/Maiar 'family' had woes or an internal shake-up before she was chosen to guide the sun.

[Nerwen]

GIL-GALAD and DENETHOR are correct, and for the reasons given.

ARIEN is not... quite, though she is involved in the clue. You also have the correct family.

1. Not a chance? Without doubt? That's the spirit! Though a little messed up (like the theme).
GIL-GALAD Fellow of dubious parentage sounds fishy and androgynous. No wonder he took a fall!
3. Despite family woes, she becomes sunny after an internal shakeup.
DENETHOR Confused requirement for a Northern deity results in early victim of internet-induced madness.

Edit: DEAD is not the password but does have some relevance to the theme. The password does not consist of initial letters- should have mentioned that to begin with. The letters do connect, though.

[Pervinca Took]

If not Arien, could it be Laurelin, from which came the sun in the form of the last fruit it produced? I don't know if the Two Trees had genders, but ....

[Nerwen]

If not Arien, could it be Laurelin, from which came the sun in the form of the last fruit it produced? I don't know if the Two Trees had genders, but ....
Oddly enough, they did, and Laurelin was a "she"... but not the right one. When I said you had the correct family, I didn't mean Arien's. You sort of have to work backwards from Arien to get the answer, though.

[Pervinca Took]

The Hurin family, then. I thought you might mean that.

There are several women of that family whose names can be rearranged to form Arien, but not without leaving extra letters. Which to choose?

RIAN only leaves a spare E.

[Pervinca Took]

For the spirit clue ... and I'm assuming the answer is a spirit (one of the Ainur), the nearest I can get at the moment is EONWE, because it sort of has 'no way' in it (the 'no' running backwards and the 'way' being sounded), but I can't work the 'no doubt' bit in.

[Nerwen]

The Hurin family, then. I thought you might mean that.

There are several women of that family whose names can be rearranged to form Arien, but not without leaving extra letters. Which to choose?

RIAN only leaves a spare E.
You have missed someone. IIRC she only appears in the "Extended Edition" of the story.

For the spirit clue ... and I'm assuming the answer is a spirit (one of the Ainur), the nearest I can get at the moment is EONWE, because it sort of has 'no way' in it (the 'no' running backwards and the 'way' being sounded), but I can't work the 'no doubt' bit in.
A good try, but no. And "spirit" is the straight part, as you've guessed- but does not refer to an Ainu.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, of course. AERIN. Kin to Turin. I can't remember the exact family relationship. (For the 'sunny' clue).

I had thought of spirit in other senses, but can't make any of them work.

[Pervinca Took]

Could the password, reading diagonally, be FIRE?

And, hang on, is FEANOR an anagram of 'no fear?'

[Nerwen]

Yes to all!:smokin:

F ËANOR Not a chance? Without doubt? That's the spirit! Though a little messed up (like the theme).
G I L-GALAD Fellow of dubious parentage sounds fishy and androgynous. No wonder he took a fall!
AE R IN Despite family woes, she becomes sunny after an internal shakeup.
DEN E THOR Confused requirement for a Northern deity results in early victim of internet-induced madness.

Theme: fiery death. Told you it was messed up!

[Pervinca Took]

Great password, Nerwen! :) Aerin set fire to the hall and I guess it is assumed that she perished that night one way or another?

New password coming up shortly. For Huinesoron, though, these were my two previous 'square' passwords (both with two passwords - first and last columns reading downwards) and the latest one, that you knew about already:

BARD: Shakespearean harlot runs backwards for him.
ROSA: Flower rearranged for a Baggins.
EORL: Complex role for this warrior.
ESTE: Hope lost direction for her.

YRCH: ‘Oo, those awful ...!’ Quite translated.
AIN U: Ancient people of divine spirit?
LALA: Two notes assemble to laugh.
ELEN: Finesse changes note for a resplendent thing.

DIOR: Scent loses pilgrim for him.
ULMO: Muppet initially changed for him.
DAIS: The high table at Rivendell was on one of these!
OSSE: Wilful vassal of reformed Muppet.

[Pervinca Took]

OK, this password has no straight clues, because if I provided straight clues it would be too easy.

However, the password is the straight clue to *all* the answers, and is also the theme. And once you get the first clue (by which I do not necessarily mean clue one), the rest should, if not topple, fall into place quite quickly. At least, I think so. Let's see how it goes, anyway:

1. Riddle, note, loses identity in the confusion.
2. Something Peter Pan does, we hear and see!
3. Literary uncle needs liquid.
4. Approximately two pints, note! Shake it up! Start early!
5. Killed chaotically around the fricative.

[Galadriel55]

F ËANOR Not a chance? Without doubt? That's the spirit! Though a little messed up (like the theme).

Definitely a little messed up. Good one!


2. A long stretch with FILI: mix of fli=fly and i=eye=sees?

[Pervinca Took]

No, but a nice idea!

TIP: Solve clue 3. Then the rest of the puzzle should be pretty easy.

[Galadriel55]

Right now the only two literary uncles that come to mind are Uncle Tom and Uncle Remus. Oh, and Bilbo, I guess. None of which gets me anywhere.

[Pervinca Took]

Think more theatrically. ;)

[Galadriel55]

Claudius?

[Pervinca Took]

Think *play titles*.

[Huinesoron]

I'm not in a play; I'm in Terry Pratchett, and I'm thinking of the gloomy trousers of Uncle Vanya ("He never vore them.")... which I believe are based on a similarly gloomy play. So is it VANYA or VANYAR (if the 'needs liquid' somehow pointed to an R)?

#4... a litre is about two pints, but I can't get any further than that. I keep getting hung up on abbreviations - 'Ca. L, n.b.', but all that spells is 'blanc'. (Or 'Clan B', I guess.)

(The square riddles are excellent! I'm amazed you managed to get them to work.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Why, thank you!

1. Riddle, note, loses identity in the confusion.
2. Something Peter Pan does, we hear and see!
VANYAR: Literary uncle needs liquid.
4. Approximately two pints, note! Shake it up! Start early!
5. Killed chaotically around the fricative.

Edit: R, like L, is classed as a liquid, because it rolls off the tongue (just as P and B are plosives).

'Uncle Vanya' is a play by Chekhov.

Litre is correct for nearly two pints, but the note is rather more musical. ;) [This was edited in before I saw Hs's next post].

[Huinesoron]

#4: TELERI, with a mixed up litre and the musical note E. 'Start early', so the password uses E. Password is ELVES?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

But well done anyway!

E: Riddle, note, loses identity in the confusion.
L: Something Peter Pan does, we hear and see!
VANYAR: Literary uncle needs liquid.
TELERI: Approximately two pints, note! Shake it up! Start early!
S: Killed chaotically around the fricative.

Which Pratchett novel are Uncle Vanya's trousers in, Hs? (Chuckling at 'He never vore them.')

(I find Ibsen much cheerier than Chekhov. :D)

[Huinesoron]

Great! I'm going to guess #5 is SILVAN, which is 'slain' around V, which... I guess is a fricative?

Sam Vimes ends up wearing the gloomy trousers of Uncle Vanya in The Fifth Elephant. He acquires them from three sisters who live a gloomy life in a gloomy house with a cherry orchard. They're pretty much the only thing I remember from the audiobook version, which I think was done by Tony Robinson.

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. Eldar. Riddle - ID + A.

[Huinesoron]

... oh, stars, and #2 is LAIQUENDI, because Peter Pan does, indeed, like Wendy.

That is both a terrible and an amazing clue.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Oi! That was my favourite clue! :D

And it's worth it, if Hs can never again read about the Laiquendi without hearing the expression 'Ha-haaarrrrgggghhhhh!!' :p

ELDAR: Riddle, note, loses identity in the confusion.
LAIQUENDI: Something Peter Pan does, we hear and see!
VANYAR: Literary uncle needs liquid.
TELERI: Approximately two pints, note! Shake it up! Start early!
SILVAN: Killed chaotically around the fricative.

Answers and reasons all correct! Well done.

Over to Hs!

P.S. Damn phone ... that was supposed to read 'All done,' and I can't edit it.

[Huinesoron]

I cannot call it my favourite because it was too evil. ;)

But if you're allowed to get away with that, then I guess I can throw this one in...

1. - A large bird in Tumladen.
2. - He left them! What kind of deal is that?
3. - The blackness around Maeglin (but not on his face).
4. - Ah, no, 'e's a cat swung by a king.

Password hint: From one bay to the other, a flying orc's sparkling song.

No theme.

^_^

hS

[Pervinca Took]

2. I can't think of anyone who abandons anyone, although some characters leave people for noble reasons.

DEAGOL has deal plus go (for left?), and left involuntarily, but that is a very flimsy guess.

Maybe 'left' could just be a directional L.

[Huinesoron]

Not Deagol.

All four clues include both straight and cryptic components, though they don't necessarily divide neatly into one or the other.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

The only thing I can find *in* Tumladen is Gondolin (or characters who lived in/visited Gondolin). *

(And I can't find anything at all in the Third Age Tumladen).

* Except for the Ostrich that befriended Tuor and is doubtless the answer.

No - hang on - it's the EMU of Tumladen, isn't it? The three letters are cunningly concealed within the valley's name!

[Huinesoron]

:D Well, you have the right Tumladen, at least... it's not an emu (clever, though!), and there is a physical object or being located in Tumladen which is the answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

There is Dimbar nearby, (has bird in it but is bigger than the word bird), but that's not an object or person and is not actually in the valley.

[Huinesoron]

It's not Dimbar. And a specific bird (or species of bird) is required to get the answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

It is 1st Age Tumladen, isn't it? Not a condor in Gondor?

[Huinesoron]

It is the First Age Tumladen. And the bird in the clue is bigger than a condor.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Is it possible the answer is simply Thorondor?

[Huinesoron]

It is not Thorondor. The bird in the clue is bigger than he.

1. - A large bird in Tumladen.
2. - He left them! What kind of deal is that?
3. - The blackness around Maeglin (but not on his face).
4. - Ah, no, 'e's a cat swung by a king.

Password hint: From one bay to the other, a flying orc's sparkling song.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Bigger than the greatest of the Eagles.

Hmmmmmm.

[Nerwen]

Roc? Actually referring to the Caragdûr?

[Huinesoron]

I'm going to give you that, because it's actually even simpler: the answer is simply ROCK, as in Gondolin, 'The Hidden Rock'.

1. ROCK - A large bird in Tumladen.
2. - He left them! What kind of deal is that?
3. - The blackness around Maeglin (but not on his face).
4. - Ah, no, 'e's a cat swung by a king.

Password hint: From one bay to the other, a flying orc's sparkling song.

No theme.

Three to go! :D

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe Roac for the password, then? He flies and has 'orc' in his name.

[Huinesoron]

Roac is not the password, and to be honest I wouldn't even try to find it yet. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is 3 just Nan Elmoth?

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid that's rather too early.

hS

[Nerwen]

I'm afraid that's rather too early.

hS
???:confused:

[Huinesoron]

???:confused:

:D

Nan Elmoth is too early in Maeglin's life to be the answer to #3.

And some vague hints for the others:

#2 asks a question.

#4 spells out the answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I'm afraid that's rather too early.

hS

There was darkness within Maeglin, and his mother-name was LOMION, 'child of twilight.'

[Huinesoron]

Within? :confused: Who said anything about within? ;) I distinctly remember writing around.

(Not the answer.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Sorry for trying.

Dor Daedaloth. Final offer.

[Nerwen]

The answer is obvious: HAIR. Maeglin's was black, and presumably located "around" him, while his face lacked it since he was an Elf.

Am I right or am I right?:smokin:

(Actually I sort of hope I'm not right. There is a dangerous edge to Pervinca's last post...)

[Huinesoron]

I can't imagine why you'd be sorry for trying? I was trying to offer a hint with 'who said anything about within'; sorry if it came across otherwise.

Not Dor Daedaloth. If you're willing to make another offer, think about what sort of blackness Maeglin surrounded himself with later in his life - and think about why I would specify that this word didn't refer to something on his face.

hS

PS: :D No, it's not hair, but very cunning.

[Pervinca Took]

I guess his Goth phase is off limits, then, and it doesn't refer to his thick black eyeliner days.

[Pervinca Took]

Maeglin mined metals and led the House of the Mole, who wore black armour. I couldn't find any mention of visors.

[Huinesoron]

Maeglin mined metals and led the House of the Mole, who wore black armour. I couldn't find any mention of visors.

You have said the answer in there! Now all you need to do is figure out which bit it was... ^_^ Is there anything that could appear on (not 'in front of') his face...?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

The House of the Mole, perhaps, because he surrounded himself with them.

Oh, a pun on a mole that you can get on your face?

[Huinesoron]

The House of the Mole, perhaps, because he surrounded himself with them.

Oh, a pun on a mole that you can get on your face?

That's the one! Well done. :)

1. ROCK - A large bird in Tumladen.
2. - He left them! What kind of deal is that?
3. MOLE - The blackness around Maeglin (but not on his face).
4. - Ah, no, 'e's a cat swung by a king.

Password hint: From one bay to the other, a flying orc's sparkling song.

Theme: [None].

Tolkien's heraldic designs/writings also point out that the House of the Mole's emblem was a plain black field (http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm#Gondolin) - which, given that it's identical to Morgoth's device, should probably have been a bit of a hint that something wasn't right.

Two to go! One is from the Third Age, the other from before the rising of the Sun.

hS

(Pervinca, I get the impression you have the same relationship to my bad puns as I do to all the anagrams we get on here, that sort of 'arg why do you torture my brain so' reaction...)

[Pervinca Took]

Oh no, anagrams turn my brain to spaghetti, too. It's not so much a case of not knowing words; my brain just isn't very good at reassembling letters.

I like puns. Especially bad ones. :)

I now have earworms from the musical 'Hair,' thanks to Nerwen's inspired answer.

Do you remember 'Roger's Night Scene' from the 'characters' illustrations' for the Arthur Ransome books? That was exactly the same as those 'two' emblems, too.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Pretty sure this is wrong. But if 'kind of' could mean an anagram, so dale, with he as Eru and the Ainur as them - the Ainulindale ....

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid not, creative though that is. :) It's a lot simpler - all you need to do is answer the question...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Something to do with the burning of the boats and Feanor leaving his kindred? Not sure if Arien had been sent skywards with a fruit of Laurelin at that point.

[Huinesoron]

Good thought, but not that.

It was kind of their choice that he left them.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Well, Melkor is the obvious choice for leaving them (the Ainur) ... although Ulmo leaves them (the Ainur) in a sense, just not in terms of abandonment. But a deal?

You're not expecting us to imagine Melkor saying 'No deal' to Eru in a cringey Noel Edmonds voice, are you? ;)

Either that or a reference to Feanor refusing to eat his sprouts. ('He left them.')

[Huinesoron]

:D Ever noticed how people's guesses at answers can be so much better than the actual answer?

Sadly, no. The leaving is somewhere between the two events you've listed... which I guess isn't saying much, since they're pretty much the top and tail of the sunless years!

We're looking for 'left them behind', specifically, and the question in the clue points directly at the precise answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is it the deal between Aule and Eru about the dwarves? Left them? Maybe ... left them behind with Eru?

[Nerwen]

*sigh*

I am forced to the conclusion that the answer is OROMË, leaving the Teleri behind on the Great Journey from Cuiviénen. It's Araw deal, geddit?:rolleyes:

[Pervinca Took]

Oh! That sounds right. Very clever.

I did think of the Great Journey, but couldn't remember the Vala involved.

[Nerwen]

Or actually- looking at how Huey's phrased the hints, ARAW might be the answer. Same chap, anyway.

[Huinesoron]

1. ROCK - A large bird in Tumladen.
2. ARAW - He left them! What kind of deal is that?
3. MOLE - The blackness around Maeglin (but not on his face).
4. - Ah, no, 'e's a cat swung by a king.

Password hint: From one bay to the other, a flying orc's sparkling song.

Theme: [None].

Indeed, it was Araw deal. ^_^ (I was actually thinking of him leaving the Avari completely, but the Teleri work too.)

One to go! It's in the early Third Age, and is not an English word.

hS

[Huinesoron]

A hint, then... I didn't actually know this word prior to writing this Password. It's one of the few things retained by someone who lost everything. And I've pretty much spelt out the answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Oh ... is it *swung by* a king because it's a sword?

[Huinesoron]

It is!

[Pervinca Took]

There are various elvish words for sword, but to find one with a bit that goes miaow?

Macil and megil don't work.

Ekit sort of has 'e' plus 'kit' ....

The sword retained when almost all other heirlooms were lost was Narsil, a king's sword, but that's too well-known for you to have only just come across it.

Unless 'cat' here is the 60's slang word for people, as used by Tim Benzedrine.

[Huinesoron]

The actual Sindarin word is 'eket', which is the type of sword Isildur had, and which I believe he kept hold of (despite losing other items, eg a certain ring). 'Eket' is 'A cat', with the As replaced by Es - 'Ah, no, 'e'... ;) I did say I spelt it out for you. (You might quibble over c and k being the same letter, but this is Elvish; they actually are!)

Which gives us not only the final clue, but the password as well:


1. ROCK - A large bird in Tumladen.
2. ARAW - He left them! What kind of deal is that?
3. MOLE - The blackness around Maeglin (but not on his face).
4. EKET - Ah, no, 'e's a cat swung by a king.

Password hint: From one bay to the other, a flying orc's sparkling song.

Password: Rámë (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/R%C3%A1m%C3%AB) (Quenya, 'Wing') , ÓROK (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/RUKU) (Root, 'Goblin', Etym.), Cálë (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/C%C3%A1le) (Quenya, 'Light'), KWET- (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/KWETE#KWETE) (Root, 'Speech', Etym.)

Theme: [None].

Ta-da! A full square password for your entertainment. (All right, it doesn't have diagonals - unless 'Rrlt' and 'Eoak' are Orkish names or something - but still!) Generated by my spreadsheet, which is very good at stuffing Elvish roots into place, but much less good at finding words I can actually clue for.

And with that, over to you, Pervinca!

hS

PS: ... was that a Bored of the Rings reference you snuck in there? :eek:

[Pervinca Took]

If you pull another stunt like 'Ah, no, e's a cat,' you'll get Rankin Bass ROTK, never mind Tim Benzedrine. (Although personally I prefer it to Jackson's version. At least it's entertaining).

That was quite ingenious. But how did you gather all those words and feed them into your spreadsheet?

I have three and a half new password puzzles ready. Just need to recharge/plug in the laptop.

[Huinesoron]

:D Heard and witnessed.

I actually pulled the entire page list from Tolkien Gateway, then filtered it for word length. They seem to have an article for every Primitive Quendian root, which make up the bulk of the list (though there's Khuzdul in there too); I've also ended up with surnames and first names of various people mentioned on there. I know 'John' showed up, and I think I remember 'Anke' (Eissman, the artist (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Category:Images_by_Anke_Ei%C3%9Fmann)). So it does involve a certain amount of common-sense; this is the first decent square I've had over a couple of dozen runs.

(Unfortunately, removing the roots makes it impossible... I've tried using the Encyclopedia of Arda's page-list, and there's only one valid square:

ROSE
OXEN
SEAT
ANTS

You see, it's different! Because Ents vs Ants! Yeah, good try, computermobile, but no.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Good work. :)

And here's the next one:

1. See them! Perturbed, minute human resources initially meet werewolf (minus the plosive).
2. Near-murderer of chosen one shaken in tin.
3. Barmpot reverses, but in the midst, listen, and behold him!
4. Eat, lament, mingle – he’s eccentric and single!
5. Fillies’ meeting is disturbed by this chap.
6. Pen fluid all over me and my mates, you hear? Does he care?

[Galadriel55]

6. Incanus - as in ink on us. I like it :)

Hesitantly Bilbo for 4?

[Pervinca Took]

Yes to Incanus; no to Bilbo (although I see what you mean).

1. See them! Perturbed, minute human resources initially meet werewolf (minus the plosive).
2. Near-murderer of chosen one shaken in tin.
3. Barmpot reverses, but in the midst, listen, and behold him!
4. Eat, lament, mingle – he’s eccentric and single!
5. Fillies’ meeting is disturbed by this chap.
INCANUS: Pen fluid all over me and my mates, you hear? Does he care?

[Nerwen]

"Ink on us"? That Huey is a bad influence!:mad:

[Pervinca Took]

Perhaps. But looking at it again, there could be far worse ways of garnering the elements for that answer.

[Nerwen]

For #4, AIWENDIL = "wail" + "dine" mingled.

[Nerwen]

ISTARI for the password?

[Pervinca Took]

'Tis e'en so.

EDIT: And so is the password.

I: See them! Perturbed, minute human resources initially meet werewolf (minus the plosive).
S: Near-murderer of chosen one shaken in tin.
T: Barmpot reverses, but in the midst, listen, and behold him!
AIWENDIL: Eat, lament, mingle – he’s eccentric and single!
R: Fillies’ meeting is disturbed by this chap.
INCANUS: Pen fluid all over me and my mates, you hear? Does he care?

[Galadriel55]

Tin being Sn, I am guessing the wizard in question is SARUMAN. One of the A's in the middle can be "one", but "chosen"? Google tells me that Aruma is "a place for health and happiness" on the banks of Clyde River, but I doubt that's what you mean. :D

[Huinesoron]

'Aruma' is also an anagram for 'Maura', ie Frodo; does that make Sam or Gollum the Chosen One? :D

I feel like the R clue might be RADAGAST, because they're ag[h]ast/disturbed. That would mean the RAD would be some sort of horsey thing.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Were Sam or Gollum nearly murdered by Saruman? ;) Well, not as nearly murdered by him as Frodo was, anyway. Maura is Frodo, of course, chosen, as Gandalf said, to bear/have the Ring. I put Ringbearer at first instead of chosen one, but thought it too easy. Sn correct for tin.

Radagast is incorrect.

I: See them! Perturbed, minute human resources initially meet werewolf (minus the plosive).
SARUMAN: Near-murderer of chosen one shaken in tin.
T: Barmpot reverses, but in the midst, listen, and behold him!
AIWENDIL: Eat, lament, mingle – he’s eccentric and single!
R: Fillies’ meeting is disturbed by this chap.
INCANUS: Pen fluid all over me and my mates, you hear? Does he care?

[Huinesoron]

Ah, I was reading "Near-murderer of chosen one" as a single phrase (ie, 'Maura, shaken, in Sn' as the whole clue); parsed it slightly wrong.

#1 must be ITHRYN LUIN, based on the latter half as 'LU[P]IN' (Remus?!). 'Ithryn' contains 'HR' in the middle, and the remaining letters make 'tiny'.

hS

[Nerwen]

ROMESTÁMO = "Mare's moot".

[Pervinca Took]

ITHYRN LUIN: See them! Perturbed, minute human resources initially meet werewolf (minus the plosive).
SARUMAN: Near-murderer of chosen one shaken in tin.
T: Barmpot reverses, but in the midst, listen, and behold him!
AIWENDIL: Eat, lament, mingle – he’s eccentric and single!
ROMESTAMO: Fillies’ meeting is disturbed by this chap.
INCANUS: Pen fluid all over me and my mates, you hear? Does he care?

Edit: As Hamlet said, 'There are more things in heaven and earth than rotating saunas, Huinesoron.' :D

P.P.S. Mares' moot, Nerwen. :D

[Nerwen]

ITHYRN LUIN: See them! Perturbed, minute human resources initially meet werewolf (minus the plosive).
SARUMAN: Near-murderer of chosen one shaken in tin.
T: Barmpot reverses, but in the midst, listen, and behold him!
AIWENDIL: Eat, lament, mingle – he’s eccentric and single!
ROMESTAMO: Fillies’ meeting is disturbed by this chap.
INCANUS: Pen fluid all over me and my mates, you hear? Does he care?

Edit: As Hamlet said, 'There are more things in heaven and earth than rotating saunas, Huinesoron.' :D

P.P.S. Mares' moot, Nerwen. :D
It was getting late...

[Galadriel55]

THARKUN for the last one. Nut=barmpot, hark=listen.

[Pervinca Took]

ITHYRN LUIN: See them! Perturbed, minute human resources initially meet werewolf (minus the plosive).
SARUMAN: Near-murderer of chosen one shaken in tin.
THARKUN: Barmpot reverses, but in the midst, listen, and behold him!
AIWENDIL: Eat, lament, mingle – he’s eccentric and single!
ROMESTAMO: Fillies’ meeting is disturbed by this chap.
INCANUS: Pen fluid all over me and my mates, you hear? Does he care?

Correct!

Well done, all!

And over, once more, to Nerwen.

[Pervinca Took]

Nerwen ... please can we have another password?

[Nerwen]

Sorry, been busy and had no internet due to bad weather.

Here-

1. He seems entertaining, but dreary on reflection.
2. Steal before confusion; arrive at lonely place.
3. ...nine lives? Perhaps if you reassemble him- and give his teeth back.
4. Note at the heart of his personality reveals him.
5. Lose little speech, and you may find this small chap in an Australian waterhole.
6. Support group for author's vice? In the turmoil, behold the breaker of mountains!

Note: the password does not use initial letters.

[Pervinca Took]

Sorry to hear that. Is the weather OK now?

Tentative guess at Fundin for 1 because of fun, although 'nid' isn't really 'dreary,' AFAIK.

[Pervinca Took]

Perhaps Tevildo for the cat one. You can reassemble him from 'nine lives,' if you add dental sounds for the 'teeth.'

[Huinesoron]

#5: If you take away NAG (a little speech/rant) from BILABONG (noted as the preferred campsite of jolly swagmen everywhere), you're left with BILBO. (And if you spell it right and start with 'billabong', you can still take away 'lang', ie language, tongue, speech... ;))

hS

[Nerwen]

Yes, the weather's reasonably okay now, for the time of year- thanks for asking.

#5 is correct- second version with "lang". (I know how to spell "billabong", thank you very much)!:p

#1 is not FUNDIN.

#3 is not TEVILDO, though that's certainly an ingenious guess. "Teeth" is the straight part of the clue, however.

1. He seems entertaining, but dreary on reflection.
2. Steal before confusion; arrive at lonely place.
3. ...nine lives? Perhaps if you reassemble him- and give his teeth back.
4. Note at the heart of his personality reveals him.
BILBO Lose little speech, and you may find this small chap in an Australian waterhole.
6. Support group for author's vice? In the turmoil, behold the breaker of mountains!

The theme should make things easier once it becomes apparent. BILBO is perhaps not the best starting point, though.

[Huinesoron]

I'm glad you know how to spell it, but I got to the answer by spelling it wrong. ^_^

For #6 I found myself looking at 'the breaker of mountains', and thinking about all the most terrible monsters, giants and the like in Middle-earth, so... I guess literary analogy kind of obligates me to guess TIME.

hS

[Nerwen]

I'm glad you know how to spell it, but I got to the answer by spelling it wrong. ^_^

For #6 I found myself looking at 'the breaker of mountains', and thinking about all the most terrible monsters, giants and the like in Middle-earth, so... I guess literary analogy kind of obligates me to guess TIME.

hS
Good guess, but the answer is less abstract and only broke some mountains.

[Galadriel55]

2. EREBOR: ere and rob.

[Huinesoron]

Which would suggest #1 is BARD, who on reflection is rather drab.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

4. Smaug, because he's smug. Add a note to the middle of it.

[Nerwen]

All three correct!

BARD He seems entertaining, but dreary on reflection.
EREBOR Steal before confusion; arrive at lonely place.
3. ...nine lives? Perhaps if you reassemble him- and give his teeth back.
SMAUG Note at the heart of his personality reveals him.
BILBO Lose little speech, and you may find this small chap in an Australian waterhole.
6. Support group for author's vice? In the turmoil, behold the breaker of mountains!

[Pervinca Took]

BARD
EREBOR
_________
SMAUG
BILBO
_________

A possible password of SLAYER could read upwards - every third letter along.