Password

[Pervinca Took]

Artanis for the lady under strain - another name for Galadriel.

[Mithalwen]

correct for Artanis and the password is initials
1 FINGON Sounds like a departed Scandinavian king?
2 ARTANIS A strain for this lady?
3 LINDON Mafia boss after French cloth here?
4 ANDUIN Great Flower
5 TURIN Endless enigma man becomes tragic hero.
6 HURIN THALION Comic muse takes direction for this hero's epesse.
7 RINGBEARER Any of about ten men, various dwarves, four halflingsthree and a half elves or a brace of Maia.
8 IMLOTH MELUI Mo lit helium in Gondor
9 MIRUVOR Elvish jewel precedes unseen rays or spirit?

[Pervinca Took]

"Unseen rays" - completely baffled. It couldn't possibly be the fire in Feanor "that maybe ye know not of"? Fea means spirit, of course.

Could Feanor himself be the Elvish jewel, metaphorically speaking? The greatest of the Noldor, whose marring was mourned most of all the unhappiness that befell in those early days?

[Mithalwen]

Absolutely nothing to do with Feanor. This is actually very straight forward.:smokin:

[Pervinca Took]

Nimphelos - but all I can find in that is "nymph" for "spirit."

[Mithalwen]

Nope. All elements of correct answer are there.

[Pervinca Took]

Password: either Falathrim or its form in Sindarin dialect, Falathrin?

From the Tolkien Gateway:

"The Falathrim were the shoreland Elves of the Falas who took Círdan as their lord from the beginning. Their last home on Middle-earth before finally leaving for the Undying Lands was the Grey Havens, but before that they dwelt mainly in the ancient havens of Eglarest and Brithombar."

1. I'll guess Fingon ... but is Finland part of Scandinavia?

From Wikipedia:

"The terms Scandinavia and Scandinavian entered usage in the 18th century as terms for the three Scandinavian countries [Sweden, Norway and Denmark], their peoples and associated language and culture, being introduced by the early linguistic and cultural Scandinavist movement. Sometimes the term Scandinavia is also taken to include Iceland, the Faroe Islands, and Finland, on account of their historical association with the Scandinavian countries."

[Mithalwen]

Fingon is correct as is Falathrim ..I ditched geography at thirteen but liked the punniness.I have only just noticed the enigma man musings btw. No comment for now.

[Pervinca Took]

I guessed Finwe first, but it didn't really have enough of the sound of the word "away" in it.

I was looking for kings ending in -dane for a while ... not to mention trying to find answers with Olaf or Harald in them!

...

TURIN!! From Alan Turing, of the Bletchley Park codebreakers. Decrypters of Morse code that had been encrypted by Enigma machines in WW2. Lose the final G and it's endless.

And I was trying to get to Turin from the idea of the Turin shroud being an enigma, or wondering how enigma could be connected with some of the letters of Thorin, Thror or Thrain ....

[Galadriel55]

9. Miruvor. (mir+uv+or, makes a spirit/drink) That was clever. I only realized after I had the word that the spirit part doesn't mean ghost or something similar.

I'm convinced that the second letter of the T clue is O, but I can't find the right To- person. Unless it's Tolman, but he's hardly a tragic hero.

Edit: xed with Pervinca. Ahhhhh! And I thought that it's Tom losing the M. Very clever. :)

[Mithalwen]

Indeed and a tragic hero himself.

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed he was.

His office is preserved in Bletchley Park, with (allegedly) his mug padlocked to a radiator so no-one else could use it. I even bought my dad a book called Enigma (or something with Enigma in the title) for Christmas last year (from the Bletchley Park shop). (EDIT: Actually I don't think it was called Enigma, but Colossus).

I considered Miruvor, but couldn't make it work! - uv - very clever. I couldn't do anything at all with the unseen rays! I was convinced it started with mir (jewel) but couldn't do the rest ... no luck putting fea on the end (although I did trying suffixing it with the word gin!)

Galadriel, why did you think the T clue began TO?

Time for another, as we're all awake? :)

1. Hama’s initial finale as a gardener’s son.
2. French cup changes note for a Telerin digit.
3. Strange the Italian should merge in this elf.
4. One buttery biscuit that Finrod loved.
5. Near palindrome and heir apparent.

[Galadriel55]

Galadriel, why did you think the T clue began TO?

An endless Tom Bombadil. As things rarely start with Bombadi-, I thought I'd look for To-'s.

4. Amarie?

[Mithalwen]

9. Miruvor. (mir+uv+or, makes a spirit/drink) That was clever. I only realized after I had the word that the spirit part doesn't mean ghost or something similar.

I'm convinced that the second letter of the T clue is O, but I can't find the right To- person. Unless it's Tolman, but he's hardly a tragic hero.

Edit: xed with Pervinca. Ahhhhh! And I thought that it's Tom losing the M. Very clever. :)

Miruvor is correct though that is moot now

[Pervinca Took]

I'm really sorry, Mith. I counted up all the clues as solved and didn't realise that you hadn't at that point confirmed Miruvor. I should have waited. :( Also Galadriel's post jumped onto the last page as I edited two of my previous posts together to remove a double post (I had posted separately at first because I know edits don't always show up on your Kindle).

And it was a great password - really challenging (as were the clues).

1. Hama’s initial finale as a gardener’s son.
2. French cup changes note for a Telerin digit.
3. Strange the Italian should merge in this elf.
AMARIE: One buttery biscuit that Finrod loved.
5. Near palindrome and heir apparent.

Correct (although I haven't seen Marie biscuits for quite a few years).

[Mithalwen]

TASSA for 2
telerin for index finger apparently after a speculative google swapping the e of tasse for an a

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed! I don't know how the need of a word for an index finger arose when JRRT was writing about the Teleri. If someone burned a fleet of your ships, you'd probably shake your fist rather than waggle your forefinger severely. But then, we're not elves. ;)

1. Hama’s initial finale as a gardener’s son.
TASSA: French cup changes note for a Telerin digit.
3. Strange the Italian should merge in this elf.
AMARIE: One buttery biscuit that Finrod loved.
5. Near palindrome and heir apparent.

[Mithalwen]

I am more curious why there is a quenya word for hermaphrodite ...

[Pervinca Took]

Eep! I can't really think of an answer for that ....

[Mithalwen]

http://www.silmarillionwritersguild.org/reference/references/pf/22_words.php
Ahem

[Mithalwen]

Hum bit of a stab in the dark but Sam for no 1? I had thought it would begin with H..hama's initial but the t makes that unlikely. However the finale made me think to work backwards and sam was son of a gardener ..but not at all confident.

[Pervinca Took]

Hum bit of a stab in the dark but Sam for no 1? I had thought it would begin with H..hama's initial but the t makes that unlikely. However the finale made me think to work backwards and sam was son of a gardener ..but not at all confident.

Not Sam, and you're right about Hama's initial.

It isn't a "conventional" password. It's a bit like Galadriel's last one. ;)

[Mithalwen]

HAMSON? Sam's big brother?

[Pervinca Took]

No. You're heading in the right direction, and you're right about the H, but there's a crucial cryptic part of the clue that you're not using.

[Galadriel55]

No. You're heading in the right direction, and you're right about the H, but there's a crucial cryptic part of the clue that you're not using.

Well, it can hardly be Hendlike, can it? ;)

[Pervinca Took]

No, it can't ... but why would it be?

It's actually pretty close, but who the blazes is Hendlike?

[Galadriel55]

It's actually pretty close, but who the blazes is Hendlike?

A character who fits the clue perfectly, but, unfortunately, does not exist. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, I see. "As" isn't part of the cryptic clue, though. I've only just realised where you got the "like" from.

It's not that hard. All you have to do is look at one of the family trees.

[Galadriel55]

Harret and Hepilogue don't seem to exist either. Guessing Harding just to tick him off the list of possibilities.

EDIT: It's a bit too early for the password, but, just a stab in the dark - AMON AMARTH?

[Pervinca Took]

Not Harding, but quite similar.

Not Amon Amarth, but you're right about it being two words - and in one sense quite close.

[Mithalwen]

Galadriel was so closem if itvis Hending son of Holman the greehanded.
Since one of the thes in Italian is gli and since strange may be an anagram hint I am wondering about a Gil...not that I am at all fixated on a certain High king...noooo

[Pervinca Took]

Galadriel was so closem if itvis Hending son of Holman the greehanded.
Since one of the thes in Italian is gli and since strange may be an anagram hint I am wondering about a Gil...not that I am at all fixated on a certain High king...noooo

Yes, H + ENDING (for finale).

"Strange" isn't in this case an anagram indicator (I hadn't even thought of that, actually, so it was not an intention to mislead). Maybe think of some synonyms for strange? ;)

HENDING: Hama’s initial finale as a gardener’s son.
TASSA: French cup changes note for a Telerin digit.
3. Strange the Italian should merge in this elf.
AMARIE: One buttery biscuit that Finrod loved.
5. Near palindrome and heir apparent.

[Mithalwen]

Elmo?

[Pervinca Took]

No. You need to fulfil the "strange" aspect of the clue.

[Mithalwen]

Probably middle aged prejudice but the nearest I could get was emo plus l which is one of the italian thes.
Back to drawing board.

[Mithalwen]

Thesaurus suggests rum.. so Rumil? Of Lorien or not...

[Pervinca Took]

The thesaurus is right. I went to it with "rum" and found "strange." I'm sure I checked that "il" was one of the Italian words for "the," so I hope I'm right. I think one of the Medicis was referred to as "Il Magnifico."

One of the worthies of the Ivy Bush in the BBC radio dramatisation says "And they're rum folk in Buckland, living on the wrong side of Brandywine river and all." I'm not sure if those precise words appear in the book, though.

HENDING: Hama’s initial finale as a gardener’s son.
TASSA: French cup changes note for a Telerin digit.
RUMIL: Strange the Italian should merge in this elf.
AMARIE: One buttery biscuit that Finrod loved.
5. Near palindrome and heir apparent.

Oh just to clarify I deliberately excluded Celebrimbor and Deagol since I feel Ringbearer signifys more than haviing them in your possession for longer than "ooh shiny! mine! No! Aargh!"

Forgot to say that the bolded bit above made me chuckle when you posted it and brightened up my day. ;)

[Mithalwen]

It is... I think the book says queer.*kindlesearch reveals no use of rum" but I have heard it..it just was one of those words that I recognise rather than think of.

[Pervinca Took]

I've heard the expression "It's a rum do." My dad has said it a few times. As for the BBC dramatisation, in the same scene someone (Daddy Twofoot, possibly) does say "Bag End is a queer place, and its folk are queerer," and I think someone else uses the word too, so perhaps "rum folk" was just to avoid using the same expression too many times within one scene.

[Mithalwen]

I have heard rum lot, and the Forsyte saga has rum titoo which seems to appear nowhere else.

[Pervinca Took]

Soooo - how about the password? It should be pretty easy now. ;)

rum titoo

?

[Mithalwen]

I suppose it is Parth Galen but the palindrome is tricky unless it is a word like palindrome and is Paladin, though I think he was heir presumptive at the time of LOTR.

[Mithalwen]

Or Pippin..spent so long gawping at family trees I forgot about nicknames.

[Pervinca Took]

Both correct. Pippin is very nearly a palindrome, and is the heir-apparent to the Thainship at the time of LOTR. Whether it was hereditary but one could decline, or the system was more elective, however, I'm not completely sure.

HENDING: Hama’s initial finale as a gardener’s son.
T***A: French cup changes note for a Telerin digit. (TASSA).
RUMIL: Strange the Italian should merge in this elf.
AMARIE: One buttery biscuit that Finrod loved.
PIPPIN:: Near palindrome and heir apparent.

Answer = PARTH GALEN.

Well done, and over to you. :)

EDIT: Whoops! The word "***" sets off the auto-censor, but was only created because I put bold codes either side of it, to highlight the fact that the password goes up the first column of letters and down the last ones.

[Mithalwen]

1 NINIEL Drippy girl.
2 AEGLOS Lo! Sage bewildered gives arm for hero.
3 American mystique muddled elf.
4 Article originated ranging in the South.
5 Mount mythical bird before entrance alternatively?
6 IANT IAUR Old Elvish spanner
7 in France this twisted "The Lion King" by substituting ruler.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Aeglos?

EDIT: 1. Niniel or Nienor? (Niniel is the more teary one semantically, I think).

[Mithalwen]

Both correct. I would have accepted either but was thinking Niniel.

[Pervinca Took]

I wonder if the spanner could be a ford instead of a bridge - Sarn Athrad? Original Elvish name of Sarn Ford.

[Mithalwen]

Not Sarn Athrad..mainly because I nevererdovit before.

[Galadriel55]

6. Iant Iaur?

[Mithalwen]

Indeed.bridge over Esgalduin. Well done.

[Mithalwen]

]1 NINIEL Drippy girl.
2 AEGLOS Lo! Sage bewildered gives arm for hero.
3 American mystique muddled elf.
4 Article originated ranging in the South.
5 Mount mythical bird before entrance alternatively?
6 IANT IAUR Old Elvish spanner
7 in France this twisted "The Lion King" by substituting ruler.

For the new page...

[Pervinca Took]

Password: Namarie?

[Mithalwen]

1 NINIEL Drippy girl.
2 AEGLOS Lo! Sage bewildered gives arm for hero.
3 MAGLOR American mystique muddled elf.
4 ANBORN Article originated ranging in the South.
5 ROCHALLOR Mount mythical bird before entrance alternatively?
6 IANT IAUR Old Elvish spanner
7 ECTHELION In France this twisted "The Lion King" by substituting ruler

Yes it is.

[Pervinca Took]

I thought either Narchost or Namarie, but I couldn't think of a bridge starting with I, which was why I (wrongly) guessed Sarn Athrad.

Not sure about the mythical bird, as the only one I know of is the phoenix, but could 5 be ROCHALLOR, Fingolfin's horse?

[Mithalwen]

It is. ROC is a giant mythical bird that could give the great eagles a run for their money. Could they carry off mumakil I wonder? Then HALL+OR.

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, I saw HALL + OR, but when I couldn't fulfil the bird element I wondered if using the word "hall" for entrance was more of a northern thing I got from my parents. We always called the entrance corridor of a house the hall, but elsewhere I've only heard hall to mean something like an assembly hall, and wondered if the proper term for the former was really "entrance hall."

P.S. Wonder if Roac, (son of Carc), the raven in The Hobbit, had any echo of Roc, subconscious or otherwise.

7 E In France this twisted "The Lion King" by substituting ruler

Could this be ECTHELION? Contains THE LION plus EC which is CE (the end of France) twisted round, and the twisted round bit of France substitutes the word King. Also, Ecthelion, father of Denethor, was a Steward of Gondor, so kind of a substituting ruler until the king returned.

4 A Article originated ranging in the South.

ANBORN? The indefinite article AN plus BORN for originated. A Ranger of Ithilien (or Ranger of the South). I thought the only two named ones were Mablung and Damrod, but then I remembered the one who (I think) asked Faramir's permission to shoot Gollum. I always thought it began with A for indefinite article (AN fits this too, of course), but was toying with ideas of a southern mountain range before I remembered that there was a southern ranger beginning with A.

3 M American mystique muddled elf.

Having struggled unsuccessfully to merge something like US +SPELL, I googled American Mystique, and apparently they are a company that makes bomber jackets and flight jackets. But how on earth I get from that to Maglor, Maeglin, Maedhros, Mahtan, Miriel or Mithrellas, I'm sure I don't know!

[Mithalwen]

Both correct...not sure I can quite explain what I was trying to do with last clue but couldn't resist trying.

[Pervinca Took]

The only other thing I can think of is Moriquende for Dark Elf, which contains some letters of American Mystique, but is a bit of a long shot. I suppose if something is dark it has a certain mystique, though.

[Mithalwen]

You werw closer by far in the edited in post, nb I only found that after I wondered what you meant by other. Find it rather confusing to havecearler posts added to and it doesnt register new activity on the feed.

[Pervinca Took]

I thought you were offline when I edited the post, so would see the fully edited post when you logged back in. Sorry about that. I try to merge consecutive posts after you've read them to avoid leaving double posts.

[Pervinca Took]

There's Makalaurë, the mother-name of Maglor, but I can't make that work either.

[Mithalwen]

I never log out and since I had posted pre edit adding new information makes the response rather halfwitted.. I don't think double posts matter so much in this type of thread.

Anyway I will confirm that the remaining answer is an individual but since it is an "honest" clue for a non obscure character I am not going to pick from a list when you are nowhere near on the reason why. Not yet. However some of your wrong reasoning has provided a useful hint if you look afresh,:D

[Nerwen]

How about–

Maglor = anagram of glamor = (presumed) American spelling of “glamour”.

[Mithalwen]

That's it...though further investigation reveals that those inconsistent Americans do prefer the u in glamour even though they eviscerate colour, honour and the like.. however the variant is there...:cool: and it saved me going Mitford....

All done and over to Pervinca.

[Pervinca Took]

British spelling is never inconsistent, of course. :D

And I think glamour was one that came up as a synonym for mystique, too! Excellent clue. My brain just wasn't seeing the "American spelling" angle. Still, at least I now know all about the history of bomber jackets. (I'm intrigued as to what the "Mitford" clue might have been, though). ;)

1. Confused lamentation rising from water source.
2. Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
3. Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
4. Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
5. Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
6. Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
7. Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
8. Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts two fortnights.
9. Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Mithalwen]

U and non -u phone for the fish knives norman and all that..
Oh but we never claimed it was... Noah Webster ha!

[Mithalwen]

3 Poros, tributary of the Anduin anagram of spoor?

[Pervinca Took]

3 Poros, tributary of the Anduin anagram of spoor?

Yes indeed.

1. Confused lamentation rising from water source.
2. Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
4. Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
5. Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
6. Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
7. Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
8. Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts two fortnights.
9. Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Mithalwen]

4 Haysend shire village and hand split by an anagram of yes.

[Pervinca Took]

Affirmative, captain.

1. Confused lamentation rising from water source.
2. Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
5. Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
6. Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
7. Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
8. Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
9. Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Nerwen]

Is the password Niphredil?

[Pervinca Took]

N: Confused lamentation rising from water source.
I: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
R: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
E: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
D: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
I: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
L: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Mithalwen]

In that case I will try Ithilbor for first I..father of Saeros Broth and two "I"s and an l for liquid muddled up.

[Pervinca Took]

N: Confused lamentation rising from water source.
ITHILBOR: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
R: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
E: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
D: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
I: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
L: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Galadriel55]

I: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights - Ivanneth?

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed! IVAN + N + ETH.

N: Confused lamentation rising from water source.
ITHILBOR: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
R: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
E: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
D: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
IVANNETH: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
L: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Mithalwen]

Not ver confident guess of Elu forcthe E since there is an ule tree though I don't see that it is dreadful

[Pervinca Took]

Not Elu, I'm afraid.

It isn't a tree with a reputation for being terrible (not to my knowledge, anyway). But both the tree and the "terrible" element are in the answer.

[Pervinca Took]

Try working backwards on the clue with the tree in it. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Ok..well the thing about half elves is that if you are ancestor of one you are often anc3stor of most. Ao posibles are Earwen ancestress of Elladan, and Elrohir and Arwen. But can't find a tree there. Ditto Elenwe grandmother of earendil. So no to Elu, Elwe I can't make work either. Elmo...I think was meant to be celeborns gfather. Tree there but not mingled and o as a vocative is quite mild. I think I need to look at more family trees. I suppose elwing earendil and elrondare possibles aa halfelven parents of those deemed halfelven. I may need to look at tree names too.,

[Galadriel55]

R: Rosghobel (or is it Rhosgobel?) HORSE+BLOG

[Pervinca Took]

Just supposing the tree was elm ... could you combine that with a short word meaning terrible?

[Pervinca Took]

Galadriel - yes, well done!

N: Confused lamentation rising from water source.
ITHILBOR: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
RHOSGOBEL: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
E: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
D: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
IVANNETH: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
L: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Mithalwen]

Elm is in Melian but Ian the dreadful? Well done Cubling. I thought blog but was thinking of ME HORSE NAMES.

[Pervinca Took]

Close. Try the male ancestry of the same half-elf.

[Pervinca Took]

Male ancestry, but not necessarily a male ancestor.

[Galadriel55]

Emeldir: ELM+DIRE. Two things helped: knowing that it's an elm and looking at The Sil's family trees. Mith did all the hard work, though. :)

At first I thought that that's such a trivial name, and how am I supposed to know that. Then I remembered that three years ago I would have known the name off the top of my head. Bad Tolkienista. :(

[Mithalwen]

Will now go and find out who emeldir is. Not even smallest bell tinging

[Mithalwen]

Oh, mother of the drip...

[Pervinca Took]

I didn't think Emeldir the man-hearted was that obscure. At least she's named in The Silmarillion, and she must be in the Index as well as the family trees. As well as being the mother of a major character. I'm sure we've had similar "ancestry" clues before, and once you had the first letter I didn't think it would be too hard.

That said, I myself have forgotten much lore that I'm sure I once knew. I also very often stare at clues blind to the one element that will solve them.

I have adjusted the N clue - this is how I initially wrote it, but changed it thinking it was too much of a giveaway.

N: Confused lamentation rising from Ivrin's Pools.
ITHILBOR: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
RHOSGOBEL: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
EMELDIR: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
D: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
IVANNETH: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
L: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Mithalwen]

Oh it probably isn't. I was going to look up the genealogies but had a busy day yesterday and if I heard of Emeldir I hadn't linked it. I have always loathed the Beren andcLuthien story so it is probably just me. I know thecelvish side and Tuors parents.

[Mithalwen]

Ah narog anagram of groan...waa hung up on nen...

[Pervinca Took]

I don't dislike the Beren and Luthien story (in fact I prefer it to Turin's, and Aldarion and Erendis), but my favourites in the Silmarillion are Fingolfin, Felagund and Fingon.

NAROG: Confused lamentation rising from Ivrin's Pools.
ITHILBOR: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
RHOSGOBEL: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
EMELDIR: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
D: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
IVANNETH: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
L: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

[Mithalwen]

Hesitant stab at the last with Lorgan, Tuor's captor. It contains ran for sprinted but the rest I can't make work.

[Pervinca Took]

And when you record something you log it. LOG RAN with just minor confusion gives you LORGAN.

NAROG: Confused lamentation rising from Ivrin's Pools.
ITHILBOR: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
RHOSGOBEL: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
EMELDIR: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
D: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
IVANNETH: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
LORGAN: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

Just the D to go!

[Mithalwen]

Ah indeed I... I was looking for a p to go with the l

[Mithalwen]

After much pondering, and listening to the Jackanory hobbit on my drive to work, I will have a ahot at

DIOR anagram of Dori and having mixed mortal/elf/maia heritage.

[Pervinca Took]

Excellent! Well done.

NAROG: Confused lamentation rising from Ivrin's Pools.
ITHILBOR: Mix broth with liquid, adding two eyes, we hear, for the father of a mocker.
POROS: Muddled wild animal’s trail leads to a flower.
HAYSEND: Saruman’s symbol found around troubled affirmative in the Shire.
RHOSGOBEL: Equine creature and online entry mix together in a humble dwelling.
EMELDIR: Dreadful tree mingles for a half-elf’s ancestor.
DIOR: Confused dwarf? Well, the chap has complex parentage.
IVANNETH: Terrible man finds way to join ancient character. It lasts about two fortnights.
LORGAN: Record sprinted in minor confusion for a First Age captor.

Nerwen, you solved the password. Are you going to post the next one?

[Nerwen]

Considering I left Mith and G55 to do all the hard work, I don’t know if I should...

[Mithalwen]

For my part I would love you to set it. The more people involved the better and I fear getting jaded and predictable ..,

[Galadriel55]

Ditto. We need some new ideas. :) Go ahead with it.

[Pervinca Took]

I agree. Mith's and Galadriel's passwords are brilliant, but the more players the better and everyone brings different angles to the game and keeps it buzzing.

[Nerwen]

Well, please yourselves, then.

1. The breaking of dawn before the sea reveals a rider
2. A confused cetacean takes to the air.
3. A great age for an excited fangurl.
4. This simple handcart can be quite funereal.
5. Too supple for a Shire holiday?
6. Quite a place, this forest, even if it doesn't sound like it.

[Pervinca Took]

5. Overlithe?

And could 3 possibly be eleventy-one?

[Nerwen]

Yes to both.

[Mithalwen]

Barrow for funereal hand cart? And can dimwit here have the excited fangurl explained.

[Pervinca Took]

I think a certain fangirl is eleventy-one?

Assuming barrow is also correct, I wonder if the password could be EREBOR?

Cetaceans are mammals, not birds, so 2 can't be Elwing. ;)

[Nerwen]

E: The breaking of dawn before the sea reveals a rider.
R: A confused cetacean takes to the air.
Eleventy-one: A great age for an excited fangurl.
Barrow: This simple handcart can be quite funereal.
Overlithe: Too supple for a Shire holiday?
R: Quite a place, this forest, even if it doesn't sound like it.

[Nerwen]

Mith, I’d explain, but–

omg im to exsited to ttpe propely!!!111!!! lol!!!111!!!

[Galadriel55]

omg im to exsited to ttpe propely!!!111!!! lol!!!111!!!

Spoken like a natural!


:p

Is the E clue Eomer? Something to do with Eos=dawn and mer/mar=sea?

Edit: oooh, and Region for R?

[Nerwen]

Yep.

Eomer: The breaking of dawn before the sea reveals a rider.
R: A confused cetacean takes to the air.
Eleventy-one: A great age for an excited fangurl.
Barrow: This simple handcart can be quite funereal.
Overlithe: Too supple for a Shire holiday?
Region: Quite a place, this forest, even if it doesn't sound like it.

[Pervinca Took]

*Bows to Galadriel* - I thought the first clue was Eomer, but could only make the "mer" for sea part work. It's a very poetic clue, too, Nerwen!

Never even thought of Region - very clever clue.

As the only airborne creature in Tolkien's world beginning with R I could think of was ROAC (son of Carc), I worked backwards from that and tried some anagrams. Apparently ORCA is a term for the killer whale.

[Nerwen]

Roac it is!

Eomer: The breaking of dawn before the sea reveals a rider.
Roac: A confused cetacean takes to the air.
Eleventy-one: A great age for an excited fangurl.
Barrow: This simple handcart can be quite funereal.
Overlithe: Too supple for a Shire holiday?
Region: Quite a place, this forest, even if it doesn't sound like it.

Over to you, Pervinca.:)

[Pervinca Took]

Here's one I made earlier:

1. Innovative sea or river creature gets confused and lost on the Grinding Ice.
2. Scottish interjection and French greeting, flanked either side by the same direction for a mount.
3. Hush ordered between two optic organs, we hear, for an orcish preposition.
4. This world sounds more laborious (and perhaps not strictly drawing-room fashion).
5. Vaulted? Swallows liquid for a mount.
6. This great one of Keatsian fame could be rather rude and mercenary in the Shire.
7. Alternatively, this warrior telephoned (but there was confusion and displacement).

[Mithalwen]

I really should have got Eomer .. iwas thinking of EO... but then for some reason best known to my warped psyche started to thinkof Elrohir... excellent clues....

[Mithalwen]

2 ROCHALLOR. Och and allo between rs for Right?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Innovative sea or river creature gets confused and lost on the Grinding Ice.
Rochallor: Scottish interjection and French greeting, flanked either side by the same direction for a mount.
3. Hush ordered between two optic organs, we hear, for an orcish preposition.
4. This world sounds more laborious (and perhaps not strictly drawing-room fashion).
5. Vaulted? Swallows liquid for a mount.
6. This great one of Keatsian fame could be rather rude and mercenary in the Shire.
7. Alternatively, this warrior telephoned (but there was confusion and displacement).

[Mithalwen]

1 Elenwe anagram of eel and new Turgon's wife lost inthe Helcaraxe?

[Mithalwen]

7 Unconvinced guess of Aragorn anagram of rang and or and an a I don't quite know what to do with.

[Pervinca Took]

Yes to Elenwe; no to Aragorn. Your reasoning is close, though.

Elenwe: Innovative sea or river creature gets confused and lost on the Grinding Ice.
Rochallor: Scottish interjection and French greeting, flanked either side by the same direction for a mount.
3. Hush ordered between two optic organs, we hear, for an orcish preposition.
4. This world sounds more laborious (and perhaps not strictly drawing-room fashion).
5. Vaulted? Swallows liquid for a mount.
6. This great one of Keatsian fame could be rather rude and mercenary in the Shire.
7. Alternatively, this warrior telephoned (but there was confusion and displacement).

[Nerwen]

How about “Ragnor” for 7? (Same reasoning as Mith’s for Aragorn.)

[Pervinca Took]

Elenwe: Innovative sea or river creature gets confused and lost on the Grinding Ice.
Rochallor: Scottish interjection and French greeting, flanked either side by the same direction for a mount.
3. Hush ordered between two optic organs, we hear, for an orcish preposition.
4. This world sounds more laborious (and perhaps not strictly drawing-room fashion).
5. Vaulted? Swallows liquid for a mount.
6. This great one of Keatsian fame could be rather rude and mercenary in the Shire.
Ragnor: Alternatively, this warrior telephoned (but there was confusion and displacement).

[Mithalwen]

Having realised that sometimes a mount is literally just that...Dolmed? Domed including l for liquid?

Which leads me to guess Eriador for the password.

And have a stab at Ishi for the Orkish preposition. My knowledge of Black Speech syntax is hazy at the most optimistic but ishi is in the ring verse and is two eyes "I"s around SH!

[Pervinca Took]

All right and reasoning correct.

"Ishi" is the "in" element of "in the darkness bind them," as far as I can make out. I went to a couple of websites to check it. (I can't remember which ones).

Elenwe: Innovative sea or river creature gets confused and lost on the Grinding Ice.
Rochallor: Scottish interjection and French greeting, flanked either side by the same direction for a mount.
Ishi: Hush ordered between two optic organs, we hear, for an orcish preposition.
A: This world sounds more laborious (and perhaps not strictly drawing-room fashion).
Dolmed: Vaulted? Swallows liquid for a mount.
O: This great one of Keatsian fame could be rather rude and mercenary in the Shire.
Ragnor: Alternatively, this warrior telephoned (but there was confusion and displacement).

[Mithalwen]

Odo? Can't get it to work properly but I associate Keats with odes and nightingales and urns won't fit.

[Pervinca Took]

Close, but not for the "ode" reason. The Keatsian reference is to a much less well-known poem, but a quick Google search would sort that out. I suppose Odo was rude to put his feet on the table, but I never heard of his being mercenary. With that in mind, working backwards might well help you - guess the hobbit and then Google for the Keats reference.

[Mithalwen]

Otho then...

[Pervinca Took]

Otho then...

Yes, Otho Sackville-Baggins, with the Keatsian reference being to Otho the Great.

Elenwe: Innovative sea or river creature gets confused and lost on the Grinding Ice.
Rochallor: Scottish interjection and French greeting, flanked either side by the same direction for a mount.
Ishi: Hush ordered between two optic organs, we hear, for an orcish preposition.
A: This world sounds more laborious (and perhaps not strictly drawing-room fashion).
Dolmed: Vaulted? Swallows liquid for a mount.
Otho: This great one of Keatsian fame could be rather rude and mercenary in the Shire.
Ragnor: Alternatively, this warrior telephoned (but there was confusion and displacement).

[Galadriel55]

Completely random guess - Arda? It's a world?

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, and it sounds like "harder" (more laborious) with a dropped "h" (i.e. not strictly drawing-room fashion).

Well done all. In case you hadn't noticed, the password appears twice:

ElenwE: Innovative sea or river creature gets confused and lost on the Grinding Ice.
RochalloR: Scottish interjection and French greeting, flanked either side by the same direction for a mount.
IshI: Hush ordered between two optic organs, we hear, for an orcish preposition.
ArdA: This world sounds more laborious (and perhaps not strictly drawing-room fashion).
DolmeD: Vaulted? Swallows liquid for a mount.
OthO: This great one of Keatsian fame could be rather rude and mercenary in the Shire.
RagnoR: Alternatively, this warrior telephoned (but there was confusion and displacement).

Over to Mithalwen. :)

[Mithalwen]

OMG you are Lucy Yenic and I claim my five silver pennies.

[Mithalwen]

1 FARAMIR Just Arian disturbed noble warrior.
2 OROME Lover head over heels (or perhaps reverse) over hunter.
3 LISSUIN Comfortable bloomers in Tol Eressea
4 CREBAIN Nice bar ~ mingle and meet birds!
5 RATH Anger loses direction on elf path.
6 E Boy meets girl in the House of Elrond
7 DIMHOLT Here is a dark dwelling for a mustelid.

[Pervinca Took]

Tentative guess for number 6 of IMLADRIS? LAD + IRIS (but I'm not sure what to do with the M, unless Imris is a name).

I did say it was a tentative guess. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Tentative guess for number 6 of IMLADRIS? LAD + IRIS (but I'm not sure what to do with the M, unless Imris is a name).

I did say it was a tentative guess. ;)

No but have a play around

[Pervinca Took]

4. Crebain? (Anagram of "nice bar.")

[Mithalwen]

Yep

[Pervinca Took]

I found a tree called "Lavaralda" whilst looking for flowers that grew on Tol Eressea, and on Wikipedia it said:

"It is said by mariners that the scent could "be felt on the air long ere the land of Eressëa could be seen, and that it brought a desire of rest and great content."

Probably barking up the wrong tree (terrible pun), but trying to satisfy the "comfortable" part of the clue.

[Mithalwen]

Right track wrong destination

[Pervinca Took]

Hmmm ... athelas is a plant that brings comfort - eases pain and clears and calms troubled minds - it was brought over from Numenor, so may have originated in Tol Eressea.

Or asëa aranion, as it might have been called there.

7. Angband? (Assuming that Carcharoth could be classed as a mustelid).

[Mithalwen]

Getting colder with the plant and miles awy with carcharoth. I may have cut the clue down too much..goes to amend.

[Pervinca Took]

Perhaps lissuin for the bloomer, then ... "said to bring the heart ease."

[Mithalwen]

Lissuin is correct.

[Pervinca Took]

"Right track wrong destination" - that reminded me of a game from the 70's where you had to put a combination of coloured pegs behind a little screen thing and your opponent had to keep trying to get the same combination as your hidden one. There were longer black and white pegs to indicate things like "right colour, wrong place."

Encouraged by the feeling that number 2 might begin with a vowel, how about OROME, the hunter ... the O jumps from the heel of the name Romeo (the lover) to its head?

I was sure it would be a Tolkien lover AND a Tolkien hunter until I saw Romeo. I considered several pseudonyms of Orome and several different lovers, but none of them had the "head over heels" bit of the clue.

And based on that guess, I'll make a tentative guess at FOLCWINE for the password.

[Mithalwen]

Master mind..not linked to the game show as it happens....

Yes to Orome I nearly put Shakespearean lover but thought it made it too easy and decided that Romeo was generic enough.. as for the password..no...:cool:

[Pervinca Took]

There was another version of the same game with letters, too, as I recall.

I expect Romeo is another of your fave lit guys, Mith, along the lines of Beren? :D

Whoops ... Folcred? I miscounted the letters ....

[Mithalwen]

Never studied Romeo and Juliet thiugh have seen the play and opera. No stromg feelings. Je didnt kill Finrod.

[Pervinca Took]

Could this be DIMHOLT? "Dim" for dark, plus "holt," which apparently (following a Google definition search) means an otter's den.

I found this place completely by accident whilst (as Gollum might say) "sssearching for pathsssss" for clue 5 ... in a write-up on Tolkien Gateway about the Paths of the Dead.

Apart from things like the Spider Pass (which doesn't begin with R in any ME language AFAIK ;)) and roads through the Shire and to Bree etc, I could only think of Rath Dinen for named paths, although strictly speaking this is a street.

Hmmm ... wrath loses the direction W to give RATH, the elvish word for path/street, thus justifying "elf path," and Dinen is not part of the clue ... the answer is just the elvish word for path?

...

Never studied Romeo and Juliet thiugh have seen the play and opera. No stromg feelings. Je didnt kill Finrod.

True. And Finrod was much nicer than Mercutio.

[Mithalwen]

Both correct. I didn't realise holt as an otter dwelling was obscure. But I be a bumpkin....

[Pervinca Took]

It probably isn't. I just didn't know it.

Lovely clues BTW - I love clues that make "internal sense," like "comfortable bloomers," "lover head over heels," and the "bar and birds" one.

I will try Faramir for the first one, but I don't think it's right. It does have "fair" for just, and he's certainly a noble warrior, but unless a ram could be described as a heretic .... ;)

[Mithalwen]

It probably isn't. I just didn't know it.

Lovely clues BTW - I love clues that make "internal sense," like "comfortable bloomers," "lover head over heels," and the "bar and birds" one.

I will try Faramir for the first one, but I don't think it's right. It does have "fair" for just, and he's certainly a noble warrior, but unless a ram could be described as a heretic .... ;)
Not sure where you get heretic from. It is Faramir and ram is the siymbol of the star sign Aries.

[Pervinca Took]

"Arian - definition of Arian by the Free Online Dictionary ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/Arian
Ar·i·an 1 (âr-n, r-) adj. 1. Of or relating to Arianism: the Arian heresy. 2. Of or relating to Arius. n. A believer in Arianism. Ar·i·an 2 (r-n, âr-)"

Oh, Arian from Aries ;) (plank, facepalm, etc).

Is 6 Elladan? Ella plus Dan = boy meets girl?

[Mithalwen]

Oh.. no much more low brow....

Yes to Elladan. it would have been too much of a giveaway to point out the other meaning of house.

[Pervinca Took]

A double plank am I. The second meaning of house sailed right over my head! I knew Imladris wasn't quite right, because Elrond's house is in it rather than it being in his house, without the extraneous m from lad + Iris. Then I tried to make Erestor work ... I think he was in Elrond's house at least once! (I think he spoke at the Council).

They were darned challenging clues, and beautifully written!

I still had one left in my password hoard. Here it is:

1. Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
3. Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
4. Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
10. Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
12. Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
13. Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
14. See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Mithalwen]

Of course the letter E doesnT tie things down much. Just as well Elves used messengers more than a redular postal system. E Peredhel would have several potential recipients. But here wasnt anything obscure save lissuin so I had to be sneaky with the clues.

Oh Eru for Ultravox as in Ure wee Midge...and dare I guess Teleporno for one.

[Pervinca Took]

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
4. Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
10. Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
12. Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
13. Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
14. See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Mithalwen]

12 Argon. Noble inert gas if my limited chemistry knowledge hasn't failed. Also son of Fingolfin in some draft s

[Pervinca Took]

Yes.

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
4. Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
10. Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
13. Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
14. See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Galadriel55]

A quick search wields 14. Yestare

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed!

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
4. Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
10. Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
13. Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Mithalwen]

10 Dain - contempt is disdain take away Dis?

[Pervinca Took]

Yes. I wrote down Dis as the answer, but either would do.


Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
4. Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
13. Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Mithalwen]

13 Balin? Balding minus g andd?

[Pervinca Took]

Balin is correct.

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
4. Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Galadriel55]

4. Beor

[Pervinca Took]

Beor = anagram of "robe."

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Mithalwen]

Beor = anagram of "robe."

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
2. Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
5. Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
6. Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
7. Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
8. Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
9. Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
11. Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

Speculative googling provides confirmation that there be a town called Brill that influenced Bree...and the password seems to be the Bird and Baby

[Pervinca Took]

Doubly affirmative.

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
H: Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
I: Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
R: Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
D: Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
A: Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
N: Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
Brill: Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Mithalwen]

There was an early Took named I sembard, close enough to the gloriously named Brunel

[Pervinca Took]

Yes. "Sounds like" because Brunel was an Isambard with an A (as well as a Kingdom!) and the Tookish personage was an Isembard with an E.

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
H: Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
Isembard: Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
R: Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
D: Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
A: Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
N: Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
Brill: Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

Just had another read about Mr Brunel on Wikipedia. His mother, Sophia Kingdom, was the youngest of sixteen children! Whether one woman bore them all, though, I don't know.

[Mithalwen]

Your old favourite Nobottle for the hungry baby?

[Pervinca Took]

Yep. ;)


Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
H: Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
Isembard: Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
R: Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
D: Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
A: Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
Nobottle: Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
Brill: Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Galadriel55]

Working backwards, R is for Roac?

[Mithalwen]

Oh so Cora and so from Last of the Mohicans, not the Nobel Laureate or Literature last year.

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, Cora (from The Last Of The Mohicans) switched around to give Roac. (Nerwen used Roac recently as an anagram of Orca, which gave me the idea).

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
H: Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
Isembard: Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
Roac: Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
D: Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
A: Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
Nobottle: Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
Brill: Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[Mithalwen]

Deeping coomb? Anagram of moped binge and co..

[Pervinca Took]

Yep.

Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
H: Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
Isembard: Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
Roac: Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
Deeping-Coomb: Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
A: Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
Nobottle: Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
Brill: Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

The remaining two are as follows.

Aros - a source of water and anagram of soar
Húrin - an anagram of Halbarad's initial and ruin, which certainly was visited upon him.

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, I once used "oars" as the anagram for Aros, saying that rowing implements might be needed there. ;)


Teleporno: Galadriel’s lord – or a possible alter-ego thereof who might – ahem – indicate misuse of Mirror?
Hurin: Halbarad initially joins the chaotic destruction visited upon him.
Eru: Ultravox’s leader returns? Be that as it may: he commands the music.
Beor: Garment disarrayed for this crosser of mountains.
Isembard: Tookish engineer? Sounds like it!
Roac: Alice Munro’s sister is perturbed before taking wing?
Deeping-Coomb: Company, in short, joins moped binge in confusion in the valley.
Aros: Rise high and mingle to find a water source.
Nobottle: Hungry baby in the Shire?
Dis: Contempt loses one dwarf, but leaves another?
Brill: Fab village which inspired Butterbur’s home?
Argon: Inert or noble grandson of Finwe?
Balin: Losing hair? Loses a couple of notes, too, but remains a valiant fellow.
Yestare: See tray is arranged for the special day.

And so over, once more, to Mithalwen!

[Mithalwen]

Sorry. I mislaid my notes... now found and finished.
1 ANAIRE Most sacred elvish lady
2 REGION Man takes charge here.
3 TUMLADEN Confused dumb boy takes direction to secret place
4 ANCALAGON Can loan silver periodically to this bête noire?
5 NERWEN Elvish hermaphrodite?
6 AMROTH Place in the principality here and in part there.
7 RUMIL Source of scandal shortened in parts for elf or elves.
8 ORODRETH Hot order confused weak ruler

[Pervinca Took]

Ancalagon?

Can loan + Ag (symbol for silver in the periodic table).

(Rumoured to be quite a beast, too!)

[Mithalwen]

And a black beast..

[Galadriel55]

3. Tumladen (I'm not quite sure about this one, but it's a secret place and has "lad")

5. Nerwen (man woman)

[Mithalwen]

Both correc5, my cub, Tumladen is an anagram of mute lad and N (for north).

[Pervinca Took]

Nice one, Galadriel! (Nice two, in fact!) I wondered if mute figured somewhere in there, but that was as far as I got! (And I forgot all the elvish secret places and could only think of Henneth Annun!)

8. Was ORODRETH a weak ruler?

Which prompts me to guess ARTANARO for the password.

[Mithalwen]

He was rather cowed by the sons of Feänor and Turin.

[Mithalwen]

And yes I am so predictable...have to get my beloved in somehow...

[Pervinca Took]

Before I knew this one started with R, I thought it had something to do with a shortened version of Rumour, and that it might be Rumil. But I couldn't work out "elf or elves." Looked up Rumil, though, and there were two of them. Brother or Haldir and Orophin, of course, but also Rumil of Tirion. I can't work out the "in parts" bit, though.

[Mithalwen]

Rumil is correct...source of scandal = rumour mill.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah - that explains "shortened in parts" and where the "il" comes from. Good clue! Wouldn't have got the mill bit.

[LadyBrooke]

1. Anairë? Most sacred elvish lady coming from her name meaning Holiest?

[Mithalwen]

Exactly! Welcome to the thread!

[Mithalwen]

Oh she is Mrs Fingolfin but I think she only appears in HoME.

[Pervinca Took]

Fabulosity! Another player. An obscure name, too (Anaire, I mean). :)

Fingolfin is one of my favourite elves. I wonder if they met again after his death. I would hope he would have been rebodied by Mandos. He had done no evil that I can remember.

[Mithalwen]

I would think so..wasn't his main reason for going so not to abandon the Noldor to the folly of the Feanoreans? And his valour against Morgoth must count for something.

[The Saucepan Man]

R Man takes charge here.

Region

Reg is a man. Ion is a charged particle. Eregion is a place.

[Mithalwen]

You said you were only going out for a pint of milk... *squeee*
And right..of course.... but REGION was also a forest in Doriath.

[Galadriel55]

Region

Reg is a man. Ion is a charged particle. Eregion is a place.

SAUCEPAN!!!! :eek::D

[Mithalwen]

Indeed.... now will he return? Do I need to amend my clue gor the last one..on reflection I am not aure it works wellenough..l

[Pervinca Took]

I've been looking for principalities in the First Age, but although elven-princes are alluded to very much, it seems to be a rather loose use of the word. The First Age seems to be about kingdoms with one High King overall.

That seems to leave Dol Amroth and Ithilien. Arnen became known as Ithilien, which isn't really the same thing as being a place in it. But I will venture it as an extremely feeble guess. Can't satisfy "here and there," but it has directions in it, and two letters of "and" ....

[Mithalwen]

Have changed in short to in part. Third age is correct. Here and there is the crucial part. No anagrams or directions involved.

[Pervinca Took]

Here and there - is Anorien partly in Ithilien and partly not? Or is it Anorien and "part" of it - "Anor" - is in Ithilien?

[Mithalwen]

Not Anorien. I think you may be overthinking it. Where would I, as the question setter mean by here and there?

[Pervinca Took]

If you're referring to the Downs, I did think of Arthedain, but as far as I can make out that was only ever a kingdom (albeit a small kingdom).

OK, that was dim of me. I suspect some elvish-sounding name from a principality closer to home (Wales). Hmmmmm.

[Mithalwen]

Now you are on the right line

[Pervinca Took]

Arnor, from parts of Aberdaron?

[Mithalwen]

Nooo you are going backwards... and forgetting the clue. The name occurs in it's entirety in Wales and is part of a placename in one one of the ME Principalities ie Belfalas or Ithilien however it is quite distinguishable. No happening to have the same letters in there somewhere. If you want a hint consult the National Trust... :Merisu: Actually don't.. sorry I thought there was a NT property there but there isn't how odd

[Pervinca Took]

Amroth - a village in Pembrokeshire and part of Dol Amroth?

It wasn't in the lists of Welsh place names I consulted. I found it by working backwards.

[Mithalwen]

Indeed.

[Pervinca Took]

Some good brainteasers there, Mith. Much kudos to Galadriel and The Saucepan Man and LadyBrooke for getting probably the trickiest ones.


1. Stately Elgar piece joins the Spanish and reveals her.
2. Gimli’s father is disturbed, but gains direction for a flower.
3. Siren of French in a whirl for a lady.
4. One of the Professor’s names gains note and direction, but it’s scrambled before it gets to him.
5. Confused rain chart reveals this character.
6. Drain mirth in perturbation to find him.

[Mithalwen]

Ancalagon was my favourite. Hmm first one Nimrodel..Nimrod from the Enigma variation plus el. Need to do som pondering.

[Pervinca Took]

Correct.

NIMRODEL: Stately Elgar piece joins the Spanish and reveals her.
2. Gimli’s father is disturbed, but gains direction for a flower.
3. Siren of French in a whirl for a lady.
4. One of the Professor’s names gains note and direction, but it’s scrambled before it gets to him.
5. Confused rain chart reveals this character.
6. Drain mirth in perturbation to find him.

[Mithalwen]

GELION. If flower here is river...rhought of Ninglor first but that has directions and the double N problematic even more than. NG..

[Pervinca Took]

It's a river, but not Gelion. As for problematic letters, I may have invoked Rule 5 regarding Rule 2. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Lets try its near anagram Legolin.

[Pervinca Took]

No. Only one direction needed.

[Mithalwen]

Ringlo? ?..who'd a thunk it that there would be. So many..

[Pervinca Took]

Ringlo? ?..who'd a thunk it that there would be. So many..

Correct. And I agree. So many near-anagrams. I hadn't realised. I just chose Ringlo and saw Gloin + R.

NIMRODEL: Stately Elgar piece joins the Spanish and reveals her.
RINGLO: Gimli’s father is disturbed, but gains direction for a flower.
3. Siren of French in a whirl for a lady.
4. One of the Professor’s names gains note and direction, but it’s scrambled before it gets to him.
5. Confused rain chart reveals this character.
6. Drain mirth in perturbation to find him.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

3. Serindë
4. Eluréd
5. Caranthir
6. Mithrandir

I suspect that the password has something to do with either Lórien or the Ruin of Doriath.

[Pervinca Took]

5 and 6 are right; 3 and 4 are not (although they are close).

NIMRODEL: Stately Elgar piece joins the Spanish and reveals her.
RINGLO: Gimli’s father is disturbed, but gains direction for a flower.
3. Siren of French in a whirl for a lady.
4. One of the Professor’s names gains note and direction, but it’s scrambled before it gets to him.
CARANTHIR: Confused rain chart reveals this character.
MITHRANDIR: Drain mirth in perturbation to find him.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

In that case, 3 is Erendis. 4 might be Elendur, but has too many letters to fit properly. The password is Nienna.

[Pervinca Took]

In that case, 3 is Erendis. 4 might be Elendur, but has too many letters to fit properly. The password is Nienna.

It doesn't. REUEL adds D (note) and N (direction). Elured only added the note.

NIMRODEL: Stately Elgar piece joins the Spanish and reveals her.
RINGLO: Gimli’s father is disturbed, but gains direction for a flower.
ERENDIS: Siren of French in a whirl for a lady.
ELENDUR: One of the Professor’s names gains note and direction, but it’s scrambled before it gets to him.
CARANTHIR: Confused rain chart reveals this character.
MITHRANDIR: Drain mirth in perturbation to find him.

NIENNA indeed. Over to you.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Yes, embarrassingly I forgot how to spell Reuel for a minute there. By way of an apology, here's something to get your collective teeth into. I've been doing a lot of crosswords lately.

1. Loiterers in disarray using southern coinage
2. One alternative, possibly, from royal authority
3. Confused, pleased with gold supplied by shipyard agent
4. PALLANDO Grim drapery and ring make one blue
5. Bewilderingly, no strange place for a quiet smoke
6. Birthday boy is, note, possibly amused with hesitation

[Pervinca Took]

4. Pallando? Pall plus... I'm not sure what. Perhaps ando is an elvish word?

Ah! Pall + and + o (for ring).

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

That's the one

1. Loiterers in disarray using southern coinage
2. One alternative, possibly, from royal authority
3. Confused, pleased with gold supplied by shipyard agent
4. PALLANDO Grim drapery and ring make one blue
5. Bewilderingly, no strange place for a quiet smoke
6. Birthday boy is, note, possibly amused with hesitation

[Mithalwen]

5 Angrenost? Anagram of no strange and a place where the hobbits were found smoking?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Indeed it is.

1. Loiterers in disarray using southern coinage
2. One alternative, possibly, from royal authority
3. Confused, pleased with gold supplied by shipyard agent
4. PALLANDO Grim drapery and ring make one blue
5. ANGRENOST Bewilderingly, no strange place for a quiet smoke
6. Birthday boy is, note, possibly amused with hesitation

[Mithalwen]

3 Galdor? Anagram of glad plus or, heraldic and French term for Gold.

[Pervinca Took]

And I was trying to satisfy the Gold element with Au!

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Exactly

1. Loiterers in disarray using southern coinage
2. One alternative, possibly, from royal authority
3. GALDOR Confused, pleased with gold supplied by shipyard agent
4. PALLANDO Grim drapery and ring make one blue
5. ANGRENOST Bewilderingly, no strange place for a quiet smoke
6. Birthday boy is, note, possibly amused with hesitation

[Mithalwen]

And I was trying to satisfy the Gold element with Au!

I confused my self by muddling gildor and galdor and having too much gold and too little pleasure ..

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Has the dragon sickness truly reached even within these hallowed halls? Tut, tut.

The thing about the periodic table is that it has practical applications in the real world. I prefer more gratuitously irrelevant systems, like heraldry.

[Pervinca Took]

I think I might know where the password is hiding, but as I've only done a third of the work so far and it was the easiest third, I'll hold my peace for now.

[Mithalwen]

Don't hold out on my account.. Squatter is too clever for me and I am stuck as a stuck thing though I feel loiterers is tinging a faint bell...

[Pervinca Took]

Well, I thought it might be AMROTH, reading down the last letters of each answer, but it hasn't made it any easier for me to guess the other clues, so it's not a particularly confident guess.

I would try the Gondor currency for the first one, (the coin being the "Tharni"), but the "loiterers" part I can't work out. I have a vague feeling that there are a group or race of people nicknamed the loiterers, and I thought it might be elves who refused the journey West. Maybe "loiterers" is the straight part of the clue and only the "in" is scrambled (in disarray).

Unless the loiterers could be the Entwives ... "I'll linger here, and will not come, because my land is best."

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Don't hold out on my account.. Squatter is too clever for me and I am stuck as a stuck thing
Give it some thought and I'm certain it will come to you. I'm sure that I'm not really too clever for you.

Well, I thought it might be AMROTH, reading down the last letters of each answer, but it hasn't made it any easier for me to guess the other clues, so it's not a particularly confident guess.
If I were you I'd trust that lack of confidence, since Amroth is exactly what the answer isn't. The loiterers aren't the Entwives, and if there's a division of the Elves called that I've not heard of them. As an extra freebie, Tharni is a new one on me too. With all this obscure knowledge, I'm sure you can beat my clues given time. I did try particularly hard with those that haven't yet been solved, cackling fiendishly as I wrote them; but you'll be pleased to hear that I rejected Nargûn as the answer for #1 because using something that only appears once in the HME index would just be sadistic.

[Mithalwen]

A tentative guess at Ioreth...I and or but leaving eth to explain though the lady was a sort of an authority on royalty with the hands of a king etc... eth hum...nice archaic letter...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Ioreth it is. An anagram of I OTHER. I must use ð in a clue some time.

[EDIT] I'll be away for the weekend, but I'll look in on Sunday to see how you're doing.


1. Loiterers in disarray using southern coinage
2. IORETH One alternative, possibly, from royal authority
3. GALDOR Confused, pleased with gold supplied by shipyard agent
4. PALLANDO Grim drapery and ring make one blue
5. ANGRENOST Bewilderingly, no strange place for a quiet smoke
6. Birthday boy is, note, possibly amused with hesitation

[Mithalwen]

Fare well wherever you fare.

[Pervinca Took]

Nice one Mith - I was playing around with "other," but the nearest I got was a king called Ostoher.

[Galadriel55]

Nice one Mith - I was playing around with "other," but the nearest I got was a king called Ostoher.

Indeed! That was a clever clue. I was toying with variations of Anor-, but clearly none of them got me anywhere.

On to ponder the next ones...

[Mithalwen]

They are superb clues but very testing especially without the format clues you get on a grid. Little thinking aloud...since coinage in the monetary senses is largely absent in the books, I wonder if it is more. On the lines of. Icanus I was in the south but that is forgotten.. however I keep thinking loiterers has something to do with the Teleri but disarray is an anagram marker.

[Galadriel55]

For southern coinage, I openend up a list of real currency names, but it was just too long to go through with attention. I don't know how far "southern" it's supposed to be, so I gave up on that task. But the more common currency names are still a possibility.

[Pervinca Took]

I tried the Anor route too (and the Ior route, but I couldn't get Ori to fit royal authority!)

If coinage = coinage of a word/phrase, it could be anything. I tried thinking of terms used in Gondor, but couldn't think of any exclusive to Gondor. I've even wondered if we're looking for an element of Cockney slang!

I looked up money in Middle-earth and, apart from the various references to pennies, Gondor had a currency called the castar, one fourth of which was a silver coin called the tharni, and both these names of coins have Sindarin forms as well. Can't get any of these to make sense of "loiterers," though.

Tried "lira" and it didn't get me anywhere either. I dunno. Ducat? Drachma? Dinar? Peseta?

Also, I wonder if "disarray" is only pretending to be an anagram marker. ;)

Edit: I wonder if southern could mean southern states of America, and refer to a turn of phrase connected with this part of the world.

Of course, I am probably dead wrong on all counts, as Squatter will gleefully inform me. :D;)

[Mithalwen]

Cockney is north for me....

[Pervinca Took]

But not for me. ;)

[Galadriel55]

It's either too far east or too far west for me, depending on which "home" I look from, for the north-south dimension to matter. :D For all I know, it could be Argentinian or belonging to southern Norway, and maybe it's not the cryptic part after all!

If we take coinage to mean coining a term, we should look for terms that appeared specifically in the south. Ernil i Pheriannath? Holbytla? Incanus? Tark? Fell Riders?

Incidentally, is the password MELLON? If so, it's probably the most ingenious password to make! :D

[Pervinca Took]

You are too bright for me, Galadriel! :) I can't see Mellon, even in a zigzag pattern! Or is it a trick one that isn't written there at all, as Mellon wasn't on the doors of Moria?

Trying to think if Kingsfoil is a term only used in Gondor, too.

[Galadriel55]

Mellon is backwards diagonal, like this:

? (N)
_O
__L
___L
____E
_____? (M)


The problem with this is that I can't work the letters M and N into the clues! :(

[Mithalwen]

6 Gollum. Note g plus lol and hesitation um.. I was thinking of Err and thought that Bilbo Frodo and Aragorn were the only known birthdays. cheers Gally.