Password

[Pervinca Took]

3. You said the door *was* Bag End ....

60 - 10 = 50 = L.

Totally ridiculous guess: Lotho, who got to live in Bag End in the end? Or L plus Otho, who ... didn't.

[Huinesoron]

The door is indeed the door to Bag-End. 60 and 10 refer to different, countable things.

(So no, it's not any of the Sackville-Bagginses.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Unless 3 is the two Frodos ... Frodo Baggins ceased being Master of Bag End about 60 years before Sam did the same, making Frodo Gamgee/Gardner the new Master.

So is the answer Frodo?

(No, I have no idea what to do with the 10).

[Huinesoron]

Not Frodo, though very clever. 60 years is a good line to follow.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Well, 60 years is the amount of time Bilbo spent at Bag End after *his* quest. (Age 51 to 111). It's the only other 60 year stretch I know of. There's Bungo and Belladonna, of course, but not sure if the date of the completion of Bag End is recorded. Bungo built it for his wife, partly with her money, but how long it took and how long they lived there I don't know. I don't think the dates of Bungo's or Belladonna's deaths are recorded.

Hmmm.

Last Trip to Rivendell from the Shire?

Bilbo is 60 years older than the previous time. Frodo is 50 (60 - 10) and it proves to be his *only* trip to Rivendell from the Shire. Rivendell *is* Frodo's destination when he first sets out.

[Huinesoron]

In this post you have identified the correct 60(ish) years. :) The -10 does not refer to years, but to something else involved in stepping out of that same door.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is it 'ten less dwarves than last time?'

So ... 'Bilbo and dwarves?'

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Or just Dwarves. 13 after the unexpected party, then three leaving with Bilbo sixty years later.

I think that 12 is Fatty (Bolger and Lumpkin)

[Formendacil]

Could 7. be "Glorfindel and the Three Bears?"

[Huinesoron]

You wait ages for a clue, and then three come along at once...

1. C onspiracy - If three (3) is company, then what is five (4)?
2. - Twixt dark below and dark above, below & between.
3. T hree Dwarves - + 60, -10, still stepping out of the same door.
4. T ower Hills - A place of first meetings, lingering glances, and (nearly) last farewells.
5. I mrahil - Twenty-second in the line.
6. - A bit sweet, but backward, and if I gave a direct clue it would probably be crude.
7. G lorfindel - Elvish ... and a trio of Beornings.
8. R ed Arrow - Gondor calls, "The flaming cursor!"
9. - Not new, not two, not race, not safe.
10. O ld Man Willow - They could make almost a Hobbit sequel, but Warwick is necessary first.
11. - With a name, he's a stalker above all others; without his name, sing who he is.
12. F atty Bolger - Left behind; his namesake is on the Barrow-downs though.
13. - Scrambled in an anagram: retained in the taproom.
14. - Singular, lost in Ladros, in a house by the river.
15. O ld Took - Bilbo passed, and the Age removed
16. R angers of the North - Before they were grey, they served still.

I will never not find Glorfindel's name translating as Goldilocks funny.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Cutting Room Floor!

Being where these scenes/elements ended up - very generous of you to suggest that PJ ever filmed them, of course!

(Makes me think 11 should be Peeves!) ;) (And a brilliant Rik Mayall performance we never got to see). :(

For ages I was convinced the password was 'Someone of Arnor.'

[Pervinca Took]

Is 2 maybe UDUN? Dun for dark, u for under(score).

11. Oliphaunt? Well, the rhyme/song was left out.

[Huinesoron]

C onspiracy - If three (3) is company, then what is five (4)?
2. U - Twixt dark below and dark above, below & between.
T hree Dwarves - + 60, -10, still stepping out of the same door.
T ower Hills - A place of first meetings, lingering glances, and (nearly) last farewells.
I mrahil - Twenty-second in the line.
6. N - A bit sweet, but backward, and if I gave a direct clue it would probably be crude.
G lorfindel - Elvish ... and a trio of Beornings.
R ed Arrow - Gondor calls, "The flaming cursor!"
9. O - Not new, not two, not race, not safe.
O ld Man Willow - They could make almost a Hobbit sequel, but Warwick is necessary first.
11. M - With a name, he's a stalker above all others; without his name, sing who he is.
F atty Bolger - Left behind; his namesake is on the Barrow-downs though.
13. L - Scrambled in an anagram: retained in the taproom.
14. O - Singular, lost in Ladros, in a house by the river.
O ld Took - Bilbo passed, and the Age removed
R angers of the North - Before they were grey, they served still.

[Theme: Things not in the Jackson movies.]

Correct, Pervinca! To be honest I don't think any of this was ever filmed, though Old Man Willow gets sort of used in Fangorn. (I was surprised to find no mention of the Old Took in the script, though!)

Neither Udun nor Oliphaunt (though I considered it); you're right to be looking at songs for #11, while #2 consists of a straight and a cryptic clue.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is 6 Nob? Half of bonbon backwards.

I was trying to get Nob or Bob to work for the taproom clue. Or Bar(liman) with bar for taproom, but Barliman is in the films (well, one of them).

[Pervinca Took]

Is 13 lager? :D

Lembas is scrambled around inside the word 'scrambled' - but lembas does feature in the films.

[Huinesoron]

C onspiracy - If three (3) is company, then what is five (4)?
2. U - Twixt dark below and dark above, below & between.
T hree Dwarves - + 60, -10, still stepping out of the same door.
T ower Hills - A place of first meetings, lingering glances, and (nearly) last farewells.
I mrahil - Twenty-second in the line.
N ob - A bit sweet, but backward, and if I gave a direct clue it would probably be crude.
G lorfindel - Elvish ... and a trio of Beornings.
R ed Arrow - Gondor calls, "The flaming cursor!"
9. O - Not new, not two, not race, not safe.
O ld Man Willow - They could make almost a Hobbit sequel, but Warwick is necessary first.
11. M - With a name, he's a stalker above all others; without his name, sing who he is.
F atty Bolger - Left behind; his namesake is on the Barrow-downs though.
13. L - Scrambled in an anagram: retained in the taproom.
14. O - Singular, lost in Ladros, in a house by the river.
O ld Took - Bilbo passed, and the Age removed
R angers of the North - Before they were grey, they served still.

[Theme: Things not in the Jackson movies.]

Nob, yes, but neither Barliman nor lager. I'm afraid #13 is a properly evil clue that has me giggling to myself, so I can't really give any hints. ^_^

Oh, well, maybe this one: all but one of the remaining five answers occur in the same book (not volume, book) of LotR.

hS

[Galadriel55]

I was working with old=not new in #9, but given that you already have Old Took and Old Man Willow I'm not sure how much more Old you can fit in one password.

[Huinesoron]

Do you realise how much Tolkien hated starting words with O??? ;)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Disagree. Orofarne, Oiolosseo, Osgiliath, Orodruin and Onodrim, to name but five!

...

However ... I think 14 is ORALD, another name for Tom Bombadil. It's lost in Ladros in that all of its five letters are in the name. Bombadil is a singular fellow (no other like him) ... and is his house by the Withywindle?

I guess Tom has to feature somewhere in a list of things/people not in the films!

[Pervinca Took]

Just a guess at Mithrandir for the M clue, because the elves sang 'Mithrandir! O Pilgrim Grey!' in a lament for him.

Of course he's in the films, but is the name Mithrandir ever used?

[Galadriel55]

Just a guess at Mithrandir for the M clue, because the elves sang 'Mithrandir! O Pilgrim Grey!' in a lament for him.

Of course he's in the films, but is the name Mithrandir ever used?

Gsndalf as a serial harasser? You know what, I might just buy it. :p


Is 2 Underhill?

[Pervinca Took]

Thought of Underhill, but Film Frodo does say 'My name is Underhill' in the Prancing Pony, IIRC.

[Pervinca Took]

Could the other O clue be Olog or Olog-hai? I seem to recall there being two trolls in Moria in the book. The film has only one. They are a race, though.

Or maybe Old Stone Troll, viz Sam's song, left out of the films.

[Pervinca Took]

And L could perhaps be LIMPE, reflecting the fact that miruvor does not appear in the films, but I'm not sure that's wicked enough for you, Huinesoron. Although it's NEARLY a scramble/anagram of Mewlip!

Edit: (And Lemsip).

(And a full anagram of 'impel').

[Huinesoron]

Okay, let's take this in order:

14 is indeed ORALD, for pretty much the reasons you said. 'Singular' indicates that you need to lose the S from Ladros.

11 is not Mithrandir; I don't know whether it shows up in dialogue, but the haunting Elvish lament in Lorien does include this name. The character you need for this clue shows up with a name in earlier parts of the Legendarium, and without a name in a song. Except in the movies, where he doesn't appear at all.

2 is not Underhill. The first half of this clue is a description of the thing, the second half can be translated to find the precise name. (As Pervinca says, 'Underhill' does appear in the movies - I would've much preferred to use it, honestly!)

9 is not Olog(-hai) or Old Stone Troll. You're on the right track with 'not new', but you need to be looking for a different use of the word 'race'. ('Not safe' is the fairly vague straight clue.)

13 is not Limpë. The answer here is not particularly wicked - in fact, it's a common English word. It's the way of getting there that I consider truly malevolent. ^_^

(Limpë = lemsip is my new headcanon now.)

C onspiracy - If three (3) is company, then what is five (4)?
2. U - Twixt dark below and dark above, below & between.
T hree Dwarves - + 60, -10, still stepping out of the same door.
T ower Hills - A place of first meetings, lingering glances, and (nearly) last farewells.
I mrahil - Twenty-second in the line.
N ob - A bit sweet, but backward, and if I gave a direct clue it would probably be crude.
G lorfindel - Elvish ... and a trio of Beornings.
R ed Arrow - Gondor calls, "The flaming cursor!"
9. O - Not new, not two, not race, not safe.
O ld Man Willow - They could make almost a Hobbit sequel, but Warwick is necessary first.
11. M - With a name, he's a stalker above all others; without his name, sing who he is.
F atty Bolger - Left behind; his namesake is on the Barrow-downs though.
13. L - Scrambled in an anagram: retained in the taproom.
O rald - Singular, lost in Ladros, in a house by the river.
O ld Took - Bilbo passed, and the Age removed
R angers of the North - Before they were grey, they served still.

[Theme: Things not in the Jackson movies.]

[Pervinca Took]

Is M Mairon for Sauron, probably appearing in a song as the Dark Lord?

(It appears in the Ring Verse and the Barrow-Wights' chant, if either of them count as songs).

P.S. I sincerely hope Limpe tastes nicer than Lemsip!)

[Huinesoron]

Sauron is in the movies, y'know... :D (Also 'Mairon' is a name; you need a description.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ents don't usually race anywhere. Could the 'not race, not safe' one be ONODRIM, based not on them being absent from the movies, but this name for them not being used in said movies?

[Pervinca Took]

Oh ... answers can't be in the movies by other names either?

[Huinesoron]

Oh ... answers can't be in the movies by other names either?

Correct, so it's not Onodrim. Think more cryptically - the three components don't necessarily have anything to do with the answer as a thing, just as a word/words.

hS

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

9 is more likely to be Old Forest, although I'm not convinced that 'fo' can be 'four'.

[Huinesoron]

9 is more likely to be Old Forest, although I'm not convinced that 'fo' can be 'four'.

C onspiracy - If three (3) is company, then what is five (4)?
2. U - Twixt dark below and dark above, below & between.
T hree Dwarves - + 60, -10, still stepping out of the same door.
T ower Hills - A place of first meetings, lingering glances, and (nearly) last farewells.
I mrahil - Twenty-second in the line.
N ob - A bit sweet, but backward, and if I gave a direct clue it would probably be crude.
G lorfindel - Elvish ... and a trio of Beornings.
R ed Arrow - Gondor calls, "The flaming cursor!"
O ld Forest - Not new, not two, not race, not safe.
O ld Man Willow - They could make almost a Hobbit sequel, but Warwick is necessary first.
11. M - With a name, he's a stalker above all others; without his name, sing who he is.
F atty Bolger - Left behind; his namesake is on the Barrow-downs though.
13. L - Scrambled in an anagram: retained in the taproom.
O rald - Singular, lost in Ladros, in a house by the river.
O ld Took - Bilbo passed, and the Age removed
R angers of the North - Before they were grey, they served still.

[Theme: Things not in the Jackson movies.]

Well maybe I'm not very good at cryptic clues. ^_^ But you guessed it, so maybe I actually am?

Three to go. Number 2 appears in Book 4, numbers 11 & 13 appear in Book 1 (and in fact in adjacent chapters).

hS

[Formendacil]

Well maybe I'm not very good at cryptic clues. ^_^ But you guessed it, so maybe I actually am?

Three to go. Number 2 appears in Book 4, numbers 11 & 13 appear in Book 1 (and in fact in adjacent chapters).

hS

Could "M" be the "Man in the Moon?"

[Pervinca Took]

11. Man in the Moon?

Edit: Whoops! Cross-post.

[Huinesoron]

C onspiracy - If three (3) is company, then what is five (4)?
2. U - Twixt dark below and dark above, below & between.
T hree Dwarves - + 60, -10, still stepping out of the same door.
T ower Hills - A place of first meetings, lingering glances, and (nearly) last farewells.
I mrahil - Twenty-second in the line.
N ob - A bit sweet, but backward, and if I gave a direct clue it would probably be crude.
G lorfindel - Elvish ... and a trio of Beornings.
R ed Arrow - Gondor calls, "The flaming cursor!"
O ld Forest - Not new, not two, not race, not safe.
O ld Man Willow - They could make almost a Hobbit sequel, but Warwick is necessary first11.M an in the Moon - With a name, he's a stalker above all others; without his name, sing who he is.
F atty Bolger - Left behind; his namesake is on the Barrow-downs though.
13. L - Scrambled in an anagram: retained in the taproom.
O rald - Singular, lost in Ladros, in a house by the river.
O ld Took - Bilbo passed, and the Age removed
R angers of the North - Before they were grey, they served still.

[Theme: Things not in the Jackson movies.]

Yes to both of you. :D Tilion is of course best known for stalking Arien so much that he scorched the Moon on one side.

Two to go!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could 2 be Undertowers, if the Appendices count?

[Huinesoron]

Not Undertowers - though you're actually half right.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is 13 (Gandalf's) LETTER? (Kept by Barliman, who forgot about it).

What is the evil bit, though? Do we need a synonym to find that? Epistle?

And apparently there's an UNDERGATE in Shelob's Lair.

[Huinesoron]

C onspiracy - If three (3) is company, then what is five (4)?
U ndergate - Twixt dark below and dark above, below & between.
T hree Dwarves - + 60, -10, still stepping out of the same door.
T ower Hills - A place of first meetings, lingering glances, and (nearly) last farewells.
I mrahil - Twenty-second in the line.
N ob - A bit sweet, but backward, and if I gave a direct clue it would probably be crude.
G lorfindel - Elvish ... and a trio of Beornings.
R ed Arrow - Gondor calls, "The flaming cursor!"
O ld Forest - Not new, not two, not race, not safe.
O ld Man Willow - They could make almost a Hobbit sequel, but Warwick is necessary first
M an in the Moon - With a name, he's a stalker above all others; without his name, sing who he is.
F atty Bolger - Left behind; his namesake is on the Barrow-downs though.
L etter from Gandalf - Scrambled in an anagram: retained in the taproom.
O rald - Singular, lost in Ladros, in a house by the river.
O ld Took - Bilbo passed, and the Age removed
R angers of the North - Before they were grey, they served still.

[Theme: Things not in the Jackson movies.]

Both correct! 'Letter' is a nasty little clue because there's no actual anagram involved (I think you got it - what's scrambled in an anagram is letters). The Undergate (which Sam tries to follow the Orcs to) is a tricky one because barely anyone remembers it exists - but there's not many words starting with U! (Umbar was the obvious one, but the Corsairs are in there, so.)

Well done! Over to you, Pervinca.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Great puzzle, Huinesoron! 'Letters' is a clever cryptic clue. Should have guessed, because it sort of said anagram twice, but I didn't.

I'll post one shortly. I have a couple ready-made on my laptop.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
2. The prairies!
3. It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
4. Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
5. Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
6. Answer this hider of gold.
7. Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

[Huinesoron]

#7: smug, barely perturbed, could be SMAUG.

#6: I want to suggest one of the dragons with golden hides, which would be Smaug again or GLAURUNG.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
2. The prairies!
3. It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
4. Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
5. Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
6. Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

Yes: A plus SMUG, barely perturbed, = Smaug.

Glaurung is incorrect, though. Furthermore, 6 is not a dragon.

I wrote this puzzle quite a while ago, then Nerwen posted a puzzle with a similar Smaug clue in it, so I saved it for a while.

[Mithalwen]

Cousin of Forlong the Flatulent? :D

Autocorrect excelled itself there. It started as 22nd

[Formendacil]

6. Answer this hider of gold.

If 6. is not a dragon, could it be Gollum? He hides a golden ring and wants a riddle answered?

[Pervinca Took]

It's not Gollum, but you're in the right part of the right book. And you've interpreted 'answer' pretty much correctly.

[Pervinca Took]

Autocorrect excelled itself there. It started as 22nd

I did wonder why Imrahil was the Wind Prince. I was thinking of Dol Amroth sea breezes as well as those of the posterial category.

[Huinesoron]

It's not Gollum, but you're in the right part of the right book. And you've interpreted 'answer' pretty much correctly.

So is it Bilbo for the same reasons?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

No. :D

The gold in question is not the Ring.

And ...

'Answer' is not a verb here.

[Galadriel55]

... is it an egg?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
2. The prairies!
3. It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
4. Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
5. Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
EGG: Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

'A box without hinges, key or lid
Yet golden treasure inside is hid.'

[Galadriel55]

Is the password Riddles?

[Pervinca Took]

Good idea, but no.

The clues should get easier if you work out what the theme is, though.

[Pervinca Took]

The theme is pretty easy ....

[Mithalwen]

Is 4 Rivendell. Tear could be rive and demon could be devil and I hoped v might be a dental fricative but I can’t dispose of the I but left might be extra l, and it certainly is a refuge

[Pervinca Took]

1. Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
2. The prairies!
3. It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
RIVENDELL: Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
5. Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
EGG: Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

Good ideas, and the correct end result. It's REND + DEVIL, minus one of the D's for 'dental loss.' And 'all around' to scramble it, of course.

[Pervinca Took]

For 2, you might want to consider a well-loved children's author.

[Huinesoron]

... is it WILDERLAND, being the lands that Laura Ingold Ingalls Wilder wrote about?

General theme is looking to be The Hobbit, but I've not got a guess at the password yet.

I keep coming back to #5 being a description of Gollum's death, and therefore pointing at 'THE ONE', but the 'near-' throws that off.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
WILDERLAND: The prairies!
3. It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
RIVENDELL: Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
5. Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
EGG: Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

THEME: 'THE HOBBIT.'

It isn't Gollum's full or even partial combustion I'm looking for. For one thing, it's in the wrong book.

What does an [/s] font look like, and why have you put it around Ingold?

[Huinesoron]

Oops... [s] would be strikethrough if this were HTML (and if the brackets were pointy). I tried to make a Tolkien joke but flubbed the delivery (story of my life...!).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Clue 1 will be hard until you get the password.

Solve clue 5 and the password will be easy to guess.

When retreating a step too far, remember that in making themed passwords we sometimes have to compromise with how the letters are situated to make the password work.

[Formendacil]

Is the Password "DWARVES?"

[Pervinca Took]

D: Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
WILDERLAND: The prairies!
A: It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
RIVENDELL: Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
-V: Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
EGG: Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

THEME: 'THE HOBBIT'

Indeed it is!

[Nerwen]

Thinking aloud, in case it helps someone else:
#5 is meant to be read in reverse, I think? And "near-immolation" would refer to one of the incidents where Smaug *nearly* got Bilbo or the others. But I can't make sense of the last part.

[Galadriel55]

Going by the letters and the "just a number", does FIVE also happen to be a place? Battle of 5 Armies? Anything?

[Pervinca Took]

It's FIVE, reading backwards, yes, and it's a place (or perhaps one should say five places) ... but it's not the battle of the five armies, and it's nothing to do with Smaug (other than being in the same book and having happened on the way to visit him).

Clue: I could hear (in my imagination) a group called The Hobbitons (I have their CD) singing where the near-immolation took place, as I wrote the clue.

[Huinesoron]

Oh!

FIF-TEEN BIRDS IN FIVE FIR TREES!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

D: Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
WILDERLAND: The prairies!
A: It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
RIVENDELL: Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
EVIF (FIRTREES): Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
EGG: Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

THEME: 'THE HOBBIT'

Yes. 'Just a number' because we are only using the number to get the letter (the answer would be retreating *really* far otherwise!)

Two to go!

By the way, one of the 'hims' of clue one could be seen as a desperate man ….

[Mithalwen]

A is for Arkenstone slightly modified would be arwenstone, a sone can be a monument

[Galadriel55]

A is for Arkenstone slightly modified would be arwenstone, a sone can be a monument

Good one, Mith!

[Pervinca Took]

D: Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
WILDERLAND: The prairies!
ARKENSTONE: It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
RIVENDELL: Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
EVIF (FIRTREES): Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
EGG: Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

THEME: 'THE HOBBIT'

One to go!

[Pervinca Took]

Copied over from the last page - my extra hint for the remaining clue:

One of the 'hims' of clue one could be seen as a desperate man ….

[Huinesoron]

... -_- Every time there's a Pervinca clue no-one can crack, I know it's going to involve either a pop culture reference or a cruel pun.

So, subject me = I, and Desperate DAN gives, in a roundabout way, DAIN Ironfoot, and both reference and pun.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

DAIN: Me, subjectively, plus him ... for him .... (Well, in a roundabout sort of way).
WILDERLAND: The prairies!
ARKENSTONE: It’s Undomiel’s monument, with a slight modification.
RIVENDELL: Tear demon, causing dental loss, left all around the refuge.
EVIF (FIRTREES): Retreat a step too far, to place of near-immolation? It’s just a number.
EGG: Answer this hider of gold.
SMAUG: Such a self-satisfied villain. Barely perturbed!

THEME: 'THE HOBBIT'

As Huinesoron has just said, e'en verily is it so,
But salute we now Formendacil - for lo! It is his go!

[Formendacil]

Have to finish actually making one... I post here to be accountable that I shall do it!

[Formendacil]

1. But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
2. "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
3. Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
4. On a western beach we sup.
5. Stronger as jumbled iron.
6. Too wayward a king.
7. Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
8. "Not a game" of chance.
9. Patron of a most singular Eorling.


Took me look enough! This is my first puzzle, so... I apologise if it is either too off-the-wall or accidentally brushes against the unspoken but traditional bounds.

[Galadriel55]

Took me look enough! This is my first puzzle, so... I apologise if it is either too off-the-wall or accidentally brushes against the unspoken but traditional bounds.

Well without first puzzles we tend to fall prey to group dynamics and really narrow the scope of questions. I say it's a good thing if this falls outside the usual style, it adds variety.

A couple guesses:

5. Nori?
6. Telcontar?

[Formendacil]

Well without first puzzles we tend to fall prey to group dynamics and really narrow the scope of questions. I say it's a good thing if this falls outside the usual style, it adds variety.

A couple guesses:

5. Nori?
6. Telcontar?

No on both--though the thinking behind Nori is probably right.

[Nerwen]

"Estel", then?

Edit: I mean for #5- anagram of "steel".

[Formendacil]

1. But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
2. "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
3. Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
4. On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
6. Too wayward a king.
7. Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
8. "Not a game" of chance.
9. Patron of a most singular Eorling.

[Pervinca Took]

That's a good one! I was thinking of steel, because I believe it's iron sort of jumbled with some air to make it more durable, but I didn't realise it was an anagram of Estel.

[Pervinca Took]

Is 2 something to do with misery, as that is what Pandora unleashed from the box, and the first four letters of it are an anagram of 'is me?"

Are we looking for the elvish for misery, or something?

[Pervinca Took]

7 suggests pork, which could be an accompaniment to pickle, and might work if the theme were flotsam and jetsam. :D

Otherwise, pickle could mean FIX, a favourite word of Sam's. Or perhaps it is an anagram indicator.

I can't think of any actual pickles mentioned in the books.

[Formendacil]

Is 2 something to do with misery, as that is what Pandora unleashed from the box, and the first four letters of it are an anagram of 'is me?"

Are we looking for the elvish for misery, or something?

There's no connection in my mind to misery in this answer, though fertile minds can probably dredge up some connection if they try hard enough. It'd be a red herring to bark at, though.

7 suggests pork, which could be an accompaniment to pickle, and might work if the theme were flotsam and jetsam. :D

Otherwise, pickle could mean FIX, a favourite word of Sam's. Or perhaps it is an anagram indicator.

I can't think of any actual pickles mentioned in the books.

You're on the right track with pickles and pork, but flotsam and jetsam is not the theme, nor is FIX the answer. It's not an anagram either.

[Pervinca Took]

Herbs and stewed rabbit?

Or maybe bacon and mushrooms, served by Mrs Maggot?

[Formendacil]

Herbs and stewed rabbit?

Or maybe bacon and mushrooms, served by Mrs Maggot?

Getting colder, I fear...

[Pervinca Took]

Hang on ... pickle IS mentioned! At the Unexpected Party. But in the same sentence as cold chicken, not ham.

Does 'getting colder' have a second, culinary meaning?

[Pervinca Took]

Ham or Hamfast?

[Formendacil]

Ham or Hamfast?

No and no.

[Galadriel55]

3. Glamdring?

[Pervinca Took]

Or possibly Mallorn?

[Formendacil]

No to both.

To my mind, the "palatal nasal" part is probably the key part of the clue... but I'll admit I had to Google it to put it in there in the first place, so hopefully it's not muddying the waters through misuse.

[Pervinca Took]

I thought it meant use some letters that are palatal or nasal consonants.

There is a palatal nasal sound, but I think it can only be written in phonetic script.

[Formendacil]

I thought it meant use some letters that are palatal or nasal consonants.

There is a palatal nasal sound, but I think it can only be written in phonetic script.

I'll give away that the reference in this clue is to something with "gn" in it--but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's in the answer.

[Pervinca Took]

ENSIGN or SIGNET would both kind of work as ornaments, but I can't get from either of those to an answer.

[Formendacil]

ENSIGN or SIGNET would both kind of work as ornaments, but I can't get from either of those to an answer.

I did a double take there! I totally wrote the wrong word in the clue. It should be "epithet," not ornament.

A complicated clue needn't be nonsense!

[Nerwen]

Thinking aloud...

The "palatal nasal" is the consonant written as "gn" in Italian and French- but not in English. Is this "epithet" from one of those languages?

[Huinesoron]

Still on #3, is it possibly NOLDOR, who are 'too dignified' to be known as 'gnomes'? 'Cut down' could be indicating the fact that a gnome, these days, is usually small. (The answer could also be just ELF/ELVES, depending on how detailed you're being.)

Or I suppose SINDARIN, which is the language that evolved from Gnomish.

EDIT: #9, 'patron' makes me think 'patron deity', and I know we have the Rohirric name BEMA for OROME. He could definitely be seen as patron to Eorl, who has been depicted as very Orome-like (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:Jan_Pospisil_-_Eorl_the_Young_at_Celebrant.jpg) at least once.

hS

[Formendacil]

Still on #3, is it possibly NOLDOR, who are 'too dignified' to be known as 'gnomes'? 'Cut down' could be indicating the fact that a gnome, these days, is usually small. (The answer could also be just ELF/ELVES, depending on how detailed you're being.)

Or I suppose SINDARIN, which is the language that evolved from Gnomish.

EDIT: #9, 'patron' makes me think 'patron deity', and I know we have the Rohirric name BEMA for OROME. He could definitely be seen as patron to Eorl, who has been depicted as very Orome-like (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/File:Jan_Pospisil_-_Eorl_the_Young_at_Celebrant.jpg) at least once.

hS

Huinsoron is exactly right on #3: NOLDOR: too dignified to be known as mere "gnomes." And if you take a late-era take that Noldor should be spelt Ñoldor, then the "palatal nasal" found in Italian and French but not in English is a bit of a double-clue.

#9 is not Orome or Bema, though.

[Formendacil]

1. But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
2. "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
4. On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
6. Too wayward a king.
7. Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
8. "Not a game" of chance.
9. Patron of a most singular Eorling.

[Pervinca Took]

4. Don't know about sup, but the SOLOSIMPE pipe on the western beach of Eldamar.

And I think Limpe (found in the word) is a kind of mead.

[Formendacil]

4. Don't know about sup, but the SOLOSIMPE pipe on the western beach of Eldamar.

And I think Limpe (found in the word) is a kind of mead.

Alas, no.

[Pervinca Took]

6. A wild guess at EORL, who has three 'ways' (directional letters) in his name.

[Formendacil]

6. A wild guess at EORL, who has three 'ways' (directional letters) in his name.

I'm afraid not.

I will reveal with that clue, however, that the final answer is an anagram of another word for "king."

[Pervinca Took]

Is it RANA, the wayward moon, anagram of ARAN, the Quenya word for king?

[Formendacil]

Indeed it is!


1. But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
2. "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
4. On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
RANA Too wayward a king.
7. Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
8. "Not a game" of chance.
9. Patron of a most singular Eorling.

[Galadriel55]

A wild tangent but can the non-kosher delicacy somehow become beacon through bacon? Though still no ideas for pickle.

[Formendacil]

A wild tangent but can the non-kosher delicacy somehow become beacon through bacon? Though still no ideas for pickle.

Not the thinking here.

On the "pickle" part, I'll give away that it helps if you think about different kinds or flavours of pickles.

[Pervinca Took]

Might sound an odd guess, but how about WANDERING for the password? Or WANDERERS?

...

I've just looked for a Roman name for Pandora, but there isn't one. However, there is another Greek one: ANESIDORA. Not sure how to adapt that to anything in Tolkien, though.

... Just having edited to include 'Wanderers' as a password guess, wondering if the last clue could be SARUMAN as patron of pretty singular Eorling GRIMA.

EGGS AND HAM/BACON for the delicacy? You can buy pickled eggs (if you have seriously weird tastes in food). (And they could be wanderers if they were inside Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves at the time). (In fact they would be wandering anyway, through their digestive systems!)

[Formendacil]

Might sound an odd guess, but how about WANDERING for the password? Or WANDERERS?

...

I've just looked for a Roman name for Pandora, but there isn't one. However, there is another Greek one: ANESIDORA. Not sure how to adapt that to anything in Tolkien, though.

... Just having edited to include 'Wanderers' as a password guess, wondering if the last clue could be SARUMAN as patron of pretty singular Eorling GRIMA.

EGGS AND HAM/BACON for the delicacy? You can buy pickled eggs (if you have seriously weird tastes in food). (And they could be wanderers if they were inside Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves at the time). (In fact they would be wandering anyway, through their digestive systems!)

No to the Pandora guess, no to Saruman, no to Eggs & Bacon, buuuuuuut....

W But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
A "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
D On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
RANA Too wayward a king.
E Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
R "Not a game" of chance.
S Patron of a most singular Eorling.

[Pervinca Took]

Dorwinion for D? Not sure about the wandering bit, though. Unless the wine causes the mind to wander? ;)

EDIT: The location of Dorwinion wandered over time. Tolkien once located it somewhere on Tol Eressea.

[Pervinca Took]

Just to get it on this page ...

W But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
A "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
D On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
RANA Too wayward a king.
E Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
R "Not a game" of chance.
S Patron of a most singular Eorling.

Edit: Almost the same guess twice, but SHARKEY for the last clue, for the same reasons as before?

[Pervinca Took]

Is the W one WIZARD? Maybe it's 2 letters of separation from 'ward' for 'keep' rather than from the zoological genera I was looking through.

They're generally wandering, if they're doing their jobs properly.

[Pervinca Took]

Is R RANGERS - perhaps referring to a game of some sort? I believe there's a game called Space Rangers.

[Formendacil]

WIZARDS But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
A "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
D On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
RANA Too wayward a king.
E Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
R "Not a game" of chance.
S Patron of a most singular Eorling.


No to Rangers, yes to Wizards--though not the thinking I had in mind.

Wizard is one word from Lizard, (saurus), which is almost Sauron.

No to Sharkey.

No to Dorwinion.

[Galadriel55]

DUNEDAIN: possibly a sound-alike for "dine"? The first half could either be directly explained as DUN = West(ern), or as "dune", whatever that's got to do with western beaches.



Also, from the start I couldn't stop thinking of "AM I" for "is me" in the second clue, but I don't think anything starts with that. I think it might help someone though in the collective thinking process.


PPS: 8. Russian Roulette :D
*goes away to giggle away the immaturity*

[Pervinca Took]

Amarie ... but did she wander? I think she stayed put.

[Pervinca Took]

R ... ROVERANDOM, with random for chance? I don't know about the game bit, though.

Maybe A is ARIEN? 'Aren't I' with the T left out?

[Huinesoron]

For the Pickle clue: dill pickles are a thing, and EARENDIL is a wanderer who has, I guess, a pig's ear at the beginning? It might be a delicacy somewhere.

Or ELENDIL, with no idea how the first part might fit. ^_^

And for A: following the 'am' idea, why Pandora? Someone like AMROTH might work, since wrath is probably one of the things she let loose.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Well, our dogs used to like pigs' ears at one point.

[Galadriel55]

Pig ears are (or once were maybe) indeed a delicacy in some regions of Europe and possibly elsewhere. Is there a way to explain the EN?

[Huinesoron]

Phonetic rendition of "and" or "an' "? Ear-an'-dill, coming to a MacTelcontar's near you!

hS

[Formendacil]

WIZARDS But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
A "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
DUNEDAIN On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
RANA Too wayward a king.
EARENDIL Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
ROVERANDOM "Not a game" of chance.
S Patron of a most singular Eorling.


Three correct guesses--and for the correct reasons: Ear 'n Dill, Dining on the (western) dunes, and a random Rover!

[Pervinca Took]

Why 'not a game,' though ... is it because some football teams are -------- Rovers? Or a reference to the toy dog in Roverandom?

A - AMROD? No better reason than 'Rod' appearing in Pandora and Amrod wandering over to and around M-e to play Hunt The Silmarils, I'm afraid.

[Pervinca Took]

S - STRIDER, and a reference to his relationship with Eomer?

[Huinesoron]

Okay, 'Pan-Dora' means 'all-gift', so the closest name that actually exists in Middle-earth would be ANNATAR, 'Lord of Gifts'.

Is there another Pandora? There's a handful of real people with the name, but none jump out as significant. Google wants to direct me to a jewellery company. It's the moon in Avatar, which might be a living thing; you could go from 'a moon' to AMON, but which of the many hills? There's no Amon Infilm or Amon Byjamescameron that I know of.

(It's also a moon of Saturn, but again...)

A couple of computer game characters, an Anne Rice vampire, genera of fungi and clams... there really is nothing leaping out.

Could it be a straight anagram? That 'quoth' looks like a keyword hinting something. But there's no Middle-earth names which start with A and come close to having the right letters, other than Andy Roper. AND' ROPA, then? :D Or Rowlie APPLEDORE sounds vaguely similar, but seems to have never left Bree.

Okay, so probably not an anagram... 'quoth' makes me think of Poe, and 'quoth the Raven, Nevermore'. ARAVORN is a chieftain of the Dunedain who almost has a raven in his name (and the difference could be a combination of 'raven' and 'urn', for Pandora's jar), and was I guess a theoretical wanderer... but that's a pretty weak justification.

We're going to be kicking ourselves over this one, aren't we?

hS

[Huinesoron]

What is a patron? Either someone who supports you, or someone who is your customer. By and large, Formendacil's clues don't have a straight component ('Rana' is the main exception, with its combination straight-anagram indicator), so I think we're looking for a synonym for 'patron+Eorling' (or 'Eorling+patron') starting with S.

... ah, and I think Pervinca actually got the right answer! Saint Rider, right? :D

hS

[Formendacil]

WIZARDS But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
A "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
DUNEDAIN On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
RANA Too wayward a king.
EARENDIL Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
ROVERANDOM "Not a game" of chance.
STRIDER Patron of a most singular Eorling.


Saint Rider it is! Though not because of Eomer, but because "rider" in Sindarin is "ro(c)hir"--the singular of "Rohirrim."

The "not a game" part was in quotation marks to indicate that "chance = random" was the important part. I had the game "Red Rover" in mind, but I'm not sure if that's mire universally known than in western Canada.

[Pervinca Took]

Not at all sure I was right, and hadn't thought of 'saint' for patron, just as Aragorn as Eomer's patron as Rohan is part of his kingdom.

You forgot the Pandora who was Adrian Mole's first girlfriend :D (No, I can't solve the clue from that fascinating piece of information, either). ;)

(But I remember Ian Dury singing the theme tune: 'Profoundly in love with Pandora').

I'm pretty hopeful about your 'Annatar,' though.

[Formendacil]

Not at all sure I was right, and hadn't thought of 'saint' for patron, just as Aragorn as Eomer's patron as Rohan is part of his kingdom.

You forgot the Pandora who was Adrian Mole's first girlfriend :D (No, I can't solve the clue from that fascinating piece of information, either). ;)

(But I remember Ian Dury singing the theme tune: 'Profoundly in love with Pandora').

I'm pretty hopeful about your 'Annatar,' though.

Ah, yes, I did forget to answer that: however, the correct answer has not yet surfaced.

The Pandora reference is not (at least not directly, since all uses of the name are generally at keast an oblique reference) to the character from mythology.

[Pervinca Took]

There's a jewellery company called Pandora.

There's also an online music streaming service, or something.

Arkenstone? Ainulindale? Can only be seen as very metaphorical wanderers.

P.S. Sorry, did not see that Hs had already mentioned Pandora jewellery.

..

I can think of a couple more characters that could be described as wanderers, but cannot work out the Pandora element.

[Nerwen]

Hint? Please?:Merisu:

[Formendacil]

Hint? Please?:Merisu:

It does seem a bit quiet here...

"Pandora" was acquired for this case by Googling roles of a famous actress.

[Pervinca Took]

AVARI? Or perhaps AVAR?

AVA for Ava Gardner, who played Pandora ... not sure about the RI, though ... I? Are I? ;)

Or Avar - the singular of Avari - plus I?

Some wandered in the hills, and I believe many later wandered westwards.

[Formendacil]

WIZARDS But one or two letters of separation keep this genus from the Dark Lord.
AVARI "Is me?" quoth Pandora.
NOLDOR Too dignified to be cut down to a palatal nasal epithet.
DUNEDAIN On a western beach we sup.
ESTEL Stronger as jumbled iron.
RANA Too wayward a king.
EARENDIL Pickle and a non-kosher delicacy.
ROVERANDOM "Not a game" of chance.
STRIDER Patron of a most singular Eorling.


Ava: "r i?" it is!

And that's the set.

[Pervinca Took]

Excellent password, Formendacil!

Here we go, then:

1. Initially Frodo’s pantry, but now in chaos for this beast!
2. Running flush – that’s him!
3. He uncoils for a springy sound. Not much, though.
4. No party for him?
5. He renders Thora blind, and Thorin bald!

[Nerwen]

Is #3 BINGO (Baggins)? (Anagram of "boing").

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed it is!

1. Initially Frodo’s pantry, but now in chaos for this beast!
2. Running flush – that’s him!
BINGO: He uncoils for a springy sound. Not much, though.
4. No party for him?
5. He renders Thora blind, and Thorin bald!

[Huinesoron]

In which case #5 must be BLADORTHIN, as an anagram of both parts of the clue.

The theme seems to be characters from drafts - maybe just The Hobbit, maybe more. Um... what was Smaug's original name? Something like Pryftan?

[Checks]

... good grief, how did I remember that?

So #1 must by PRYFTAN, as an anagram of F PANTRY. (Got there by way of 'initially... P antry' + 'beast', and worked out which parts were actually in the anagram from there.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

PRYFTAN: Initially Frodo’s pantry, but now in chaos for this beast!
2. Running flush – that’s him!
BINGO: He uncoils for a springy sound. Not much, though.
4. No party for him?
BLADORTHIN: He renders Thora blind, and Thorin bald!

THEME: FORMER NAMES OF CHARACTERS IN EARLY DRAFTS:

Smaug was Pryftan
Frodo was Bingo
Gandalf was Bladorthin

HS, how can it be just The Hobbit when the first clue guessed was a prototype for a LOTR character? ;)

Good work on Bladorthin and Pryftan, though! (And Nerwen on Boing).

[Galadriel55]

No way 2 can be TROTTER, eh?

[Huinesoron]

HS, how can it be just The Hobbit when the first clue guessed was a prototype for a LOTR character? ;)

Well, you see, it's a little known fact that originally, right, originally Bingo was another, uh, name for, um... the Misty Mountains?

Nah, I got nothin'. [Face of shame]

hS

[Pervinca Took]

PRYFTAN: Initially Frodo’s pantry, but now in chaos for this beast!
TROTTER: Running flush – that’s him!
BINGO: He uncoils for a springy sound. Not much, though.
4. No party for him?
BLADORTHIN: He renders Thora blind, and Thorin bald!

THEME: FORMER NAMES OF CHARACTERS IN EARLY DRAFTS:

Smaug was Pryftan
Strider was Trotter
Frodo was Bingo
Gandalf was Bladorthin

The Bingo Mountains? Not bad. Nice holiday resort for Ioreth and her sisters, perhaps?

Galadriel, it can indeed! A flush, in cards, is a group of cards of the same suit. A run is a group of cards of consecutive number. A trotter is a running flush, which has both criteria, is much rarer, and scores more highly than either of the first two. I learned this from my dad years ago. I think we were playing 'Brag,' but it probably applies to poker too. There's a sitcom character called Derek Trotter who's a wheeler-dealer in south London. I'm pretty sure the connotation of a term in cards (and hence possibly gambling) was fully intended. I think there's even a clip of him rearranging a hand of cards in the opening credits.

[Nerwen]

It looks strangely as if the password is simply FRODO, which doesn't fit the theme. Unless some character was formerly known as FROTO or FROGO or...?:confused:

[Pervinca Took]

PRYFTAN: Initially Frodo’s pantry, but now in chaos for this beast!
TROTTER: Running flush – that’s him!
BINGO: He uncoils for a springy sound. Not much, though.
???D???: No party for him?
BLADORTHIN: He renders Thora blind, and Thorin bald!

THEME: FORMER NAMES OF CHARACTERS IN EARLY DRAFTS:

Smaug was Pryftan
Strider was Trotter
Frodo was Bingo
??? was ???
Gandalf was Bladorthin

Password: FRODO (Pippin was Frodo).

One to go!

Hs, you probably remember Pryftan and the others from the Biography. That's where I learned about them. Years ago, but they stuck in my memory.

Originally the F clue was Gandalf (the original name of Thorin), but I then came up with boing and pantry, and liked those clues better.

[Huinesoron]

Hmm... did you maybe move GANDALF (Thorin) to #4, then?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

No. :D

[Pervinca Took]

By the way, the number of question marks does not necessarily indicate the number of letters either side of the D.

[Huinesoron]

Okay... how about FINROD (ie, Finarfin)? In D&D terms he left the party when he turned round at Araman; I'm sure I remember some mention of Alqualonde arming itself against him on his return, which would also be 'no party'.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I did think of looking up some First Age and before names that might have changed, (didn't Luthien have a prototype called Melilot?), but once I had Frodo as a password (all with Third Agers), I didn't think I'd be able to make a password as successfully if I started adding more, (or I was too lazy, or both ;)).

Think of a synonym for 'party.'

P.S. Is 'leaving the party' a Dungeons & Dragons term?

[Formendacil]

I did think of looking up some First Age and before names that might have changed, (didn't Luthien have a prototype called Melilot?), but once I had Frodo as a password (all with Third Agers), I didn't think I'd be able to make a password as successfully if I started adding more, (or I was too lazy, or both ;)).

Think of a synonym for 'party.'

P.S. Is 'leaving the party' a Dungeons & Dragons term?

Could be Odo, who gets left out of the Fellowship? (And survives as a remnant in the story only as Fatty Bolger)

[Pervinca Took]

PRYFTAN: Initially Frodo’s pantry, but now in chaos for this beast!
TROTTER: Running flush – that’s him!
BINGO: He uncoils for a springy sound. Not much, though.
ODO: No party for him?
BLADORTHIN: He renders Thora blind, and Thorin bald!

THEME: FORMER NAMES OF CHARACTERS IN EARLY DRAFTS:

Smaug was Pryftan
Strider was Trotter
Frodo was Bingo
Merry was Odo
Gandalf was Bladorthin

Password: FRODO (Pippin was Frodo).

(Although he wouldn't fit into the puzzle, Thorin was also originally called Gandalf).

Correct answer, Formendacil, but I think Odo was the prototype of Merry, not Fatty Bolger.

In the biography, it refers to ''Bingo and his cousins Odo and Frodo' in very early drafts of LOTR, (but not the very first drafts, in which Bilbo was still the hero). As we (and the characters) tend to refer to 'Merry and Pippin' rather than 'Pippin and Merry,' I have always kind of assumed that Odo = Merry and Frodo = Pippin, even though their characters probably weren't that developed at that stage. I do have the HOME books containing the early drafts, but haven't read them cover to cover.

It's O (no/nothing) plus DO (party).

Well done, everyone!

And over to Nerwen!

[Nerwen]

Apologies for the delay- have had a very busy week.
I'll come up with something as soon as I can.

[Pervinca Took]

Nerwen, I have another one that's good to go if you don't have time to prepare one just now.

[Pervinca Took]

As Nerwen still hasn't replied, I am posting this. I think you will see why I didn't want to wait.

1. Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
2. Second of three, but the first to die.
3. Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
4. One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
5. Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
6. Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
7. This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
8. Famed for two things, primarily.
9. Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
10. One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
11. Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

[Galadriel55]

2. Finwe, of the Noldor, making Feanor "not the first"?

[Pervinca Took]

Not the correct answer, I'm afraid. Just thinking ... who are the three that Finwe would be the second of?

[Galadriel55]

Not the correct answer, I'm afraid. Just thinking ... who are the three that Finwe would be the second of?

The elf houses, I believe.

[Galadriel55]

3. Elf

[Pervinca Took]

1. Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
2. Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
4. One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
5. Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
6. Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
7. This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
8. Famed for two things, primarily.
9. Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
10. One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
11. Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

[Formendacil]

6. Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.

Could this be "twenty-one?" I think Bilbo adopted Frodo at that age...

[Pervinca Took]

You're close ... but the clue says 'to adopt,' not 'to be adopted.' ;)

[Huinesoron]

5: Is this Shelob, and therefore EIGHT? Or Ungoliant and her brood in Nan Dungortheb, same answer.

The closest thing the actual Haunted Pass has to a terror is the Black Gate, which has ZERO limbs.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
2. Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
4. One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
6. Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
7. This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
8. Famed for two things, primarily.
9. Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
10. One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
11. Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

[Galadriel55]

Testing a far-fetched theory with an unfounded guess...

4. Vilya?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
2. Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
6. Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
7. This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
8. Famed for two things, primarily.
9. Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
10. One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
11. Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

VILYA indeed - Y inside a shaken VIAL.

[Galadriel55]

1. Eighty or so - the years Bilbo and Frodo had the Ring?

Happy New Year!

[Pervinca Took]

Very close, but only one of their names means 'old-wise.' ;)

[Formendacil]

1. Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).

Could this be eighteen?

6. Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.

With this then ninety-nine?

7. This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!

Five Golden Rings!?

[Pervinca Took]

EIGHTEEN: Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
2. Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
NINETY-NINE: Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
7. This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
8. Famed for two things, primarily.
9. Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
10. One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
11. Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

I had forgotten, but 'The Twelve Days Of Christmas' is indeed sung in 'Twelfth Night' - or the stage directions hint that it is. It isn't the song that the clue refers to, though.

[Huinesoron]

#11 is making me think of ENEL, the mythical founder of the Teleri: third elf to awaken, but quickly became leader of the largest tribe (due largely to Imin's selfishness).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Not Enel.

Not clue 11, but let me drop this here just to be festive.

https://youtu.be/h8kA2zx8isk

Don't say I never give you anything. :D

P.S. So sorry, G55 - Happy New Year to you too, and to all Downers and wanderers here, both dead, undead and in-between.

[Huinesoron]

Ah, well then, #7 must be TWENTY, which is indeed the number of Great Rings. 'Sweet and twenty' indeed (seriously, Shakespeare, what does that even mean?).

#9 could be several things, but TWO seems most likely (his own head, plus his talking purse). Alternately, ONE, as Tolkien specifically notes that these are the kind of trolls 'with only one head each'.

#11... was EARENDIL younger than Elwing? That would make him the third half-elven, and 'higher honours' seems to describe him well. (Actually, I suppose ELWING the flappy bird could also count, if she's the younger of the pair.)

hS

[Formendacil]

#11... was EARENDIL younger than Elwing? That would make him the third half-elven, and 'higher honours' seems to describe him well. (Actually, I suppose ELWING the flappy bird could also count, if she's the younger of the pair.)

I'm going to guess you're right about Elwing, but wrong about why. Regardless of Earendil's age, Elwing isn't going to be the third half-Elf. 1. Dior, 2. Elured, 3. Elurin, 4. Elwing (but, of course, this depends on how you reckon your half-Elves. The common definition seems to be "part Elf, part Man," but if you take it more literally, well, Luthien is technically half an Elf, Dior only a quarter, and Elwing five-eighths...)

However, Elwing *is* the last of Dior's three children, and with them dying young, she was soon destined for higher things--i.e. flying.

[Pervinca Took]

EIGHTEEN: Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
L: Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
NINETY-NINE: Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
TWENTY: This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
Y: Famed for two things, primarily.
ONE: Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
N: One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
E: Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

Password: ELEVENTY-ONE, to celebrate the eleventy-first page of this thread!

[Galadriel55]

I don't have any great ideas for any of the clues, but for a while I have been entertaining the idea of ELEVENTY ONE for the password and maybe it's time to just say it.

[Pervinca Took]

EIGHTEEN: Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
L: Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
NINETY-NINE: Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
TWENTY: This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
Y: Famed for two things, primarily.
ONE: Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
N: One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
E: Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

Password: ELEVENTY-ONE, to celebrate the eleventy-first page of this thread!

Theme: NUMBERS.

And, yet again, I managed to press edit instead of quote!

[Huinesoron]

Oh! Is Y YAVANNA, famed for the Two Trees (though Treebeard would protest that...)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

EIGHTEEN: Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
L: Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
NINETY-NINE: Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
TWENTY: This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
YAVANNA: Famed for two things, primarily.
ONE: Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
N: One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
E: Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

Password: ELEVENTY-ONE, to celebrate the eleventy-first page of this thread!

Theme: NUMBERS.

Indeed.

Why would Treebeard disagree?

[Galadriel55]

:o The whole time I was reading it as farmed. And I couldn't for the life of me think of an agricultural product mentioned in ME and starting with Y that was specifically noted to have two used components. *facepalm*

[Huinesoron]

Well, as a representative of Yavanna's sentient creations, I just think he might be a bit put out about being passed over for fame. Or maybe not - certainly he'd take his time coming to a conclusion!

Nothing's coming to mind for L or N; I've resorted to looking through alphabetical lists, but nothing's popping. I feel like 'ancient letter' in N points at 'rune' (mangled); words starting with N and containing U are pretty thin on the ground, but the list is overloaded by Numenor. (I suppose if you count Umbar, Gondor, and Arnor, it could be the first of four Numenorean Realms... but then you have to make a 'distant object' from 'nom' or 'mon'.)

E... EOMER was the first king of the Third Line of Rohan. And EREINION GIL-GALAD was of the third generation descended from Finwe, and also the third successor High King to Fingolfin. But... yeah, no.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

EIGHTEEN: Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
L: Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
NINETY-NINE: Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
TWENTY: This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
YAVANNA: Famed for two things, primarily.
ONE: Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
N: One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
EOMER: Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

Password: ELEVENTY-ONE, to celebrate the eleventy-first page of this thread!

Theme: NUMBERS.

The last one IS Eomer, but not for the reason you state. Can you work out why it's Eomer? What does he first introduce himself as?

You will kick yourself when you realise what the L clue is.

[Huinesoron]

... ohhhhh he's Third Marshal, isn't he? Even though he was also the only Marshal of the Mark at that point. That's a good clue!

L, L, L... you're right, I probably am. I mean... Luthien? She was the first elf to properly die, and I think the Silm says as much, but I can't get 'second of three' anywhere.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Even I am the second of three.

(Myself, not Pervinca Took).

[Huinesoron]

... no-one's guessed LALAITH yet, have they? Because we reeeeeally should've.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

EIGHTEEN: Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
LALAITH: Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
NINETY-NINE: Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
TWENTY: This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
YAVANNA: Famed for two things, primarily.
ONE: Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
N: One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
EOMER: Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

Password: ELEVENTY-ONE, to celebrate the eleventy-first page of this thread!

Theme: NUMBERS.

Lalaith it is.

One to go!

[Pervinca Took]

To narrow it down a little, the remaining answer is not a person. So don't look at groups of siblings, kings, etc.

[Huinesoron]

Okay, so 'north' is a rearranged thorn, the letter, so North something... ah! NORTH+FAR-THING, the Northfarthing of the Shire.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

EIGHTEEN: Years of old-wise possession (give or take six months).
LALAITH: Second of three, but the first to die.
ELF: Eleven, teutonically, but only one in the Fellowship.
VILYA: One of three – we hear why in a shaken bottle?
EIGHT: Limbs of the Terror of the Haunted Pass.
NINETY-NINE: Good age to adopt? Legal, at any rate.
TWENTY: This, and sweet, in a Twelfth Night song – so many Great Rings!
YAVANNA: Famed for two things, primarily.
ONE: Number of heads on Bill Huggins.
NORTHFARTHING: One of four; mangled ancient letter meets distant object?
EOMER: Third of a kind, but destined – pretty soon – for higher honours.

Password: ELEVENTY-ONE, to celebrate the eleventy-first page of this thread!

Theme: NUMBERS.

Well done!

And now, over to Galadriel!

[Galadriel55]

Cheers! Really, kudos to Hui for getting those last clues. Hat off to you!

I do not have one ready and I'm pretty busy IRL, which is why I waited so long to say the password. If someone wants to go ahead, be my guest. If not I shall cobble something up in a few days.

[Galadriel55]

Ok, got some free time which I spent making this somewhat odd password. Hard to follow such a celebratory password, but I think you will like it.


1. Seek inside, endure line break.
2. Strange, double reverse old?
3. Will warfarin lose distant direction?
4. Refresh point askew.
5. Confused above a sheep.
6. Letter, relation, belonging, name.
7. Champion of Sam's cooking-gear.


EDIT: You evidently chose a very fortunate time to post your 111 password, Pervinca, because the moment there's a new one it's 112! :D

[Pervinca Took]

I kind of did it for you, because you asked for a special one to celebrate page 100, but I couldn't think how to do that. :)

[Galadriel55]

I kind of did it for you, because you asked for a special one to celebrate page 100, but I couldn't think how to do that. :)

Aww, I forgot about that! But given the Tolkien theme, 111 is probably the better of the two to celebrate. :)

[Pervinca Took]

3. If warfarin loses far and w, it becomes ARIN, the Quenya for morning.

I wonder if the lack of straight clues could be because the answers are all elvish or something.

I wonder, but have a stronger feeling that all I have suggested is wrong.

[Galadriel55]

3. If warfarin loses far and w, it becomes ARIN, the Quenya for morning.

I wonder if the lack of straight clues could be because the answers are all elvish or something.

I wonder, but have a stronger feeling that all I have suggested is wrong.

Not entirely, though 2 of the 3 are incorrect. 3 is not Arin (though you have the right method, just wrong details), and the answers are not Elvish. But the reason they don't have straight clues is indeed because they all share a common straight clue which is the theme.

I kind of wonder how fast you'll get all of them once you have one and hit on the theme. I predict a swift massacre of the rest of the clues.

[Huinesoron]

... oh sweet mercy.

In true Gollum fashion, the fact that I (incorrectly) fixated on 'rune' as 'ancient letter' last time sent my mind straight there on #6.

And then a son is a relation.

And 'of' means belonging.

And then I had to look up RUNE SON OF BJARNE's full name.

...

In my defence, I read quite a lot of your old Werewolf games a year back.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is 3 possibly WAIN, losing FAR and R?

Trouble is, I can't think of another synonym for 'distant.'

... Well, there's AFAR, and we could gain a direction instead of losing it. And I suppose a direction could be 2 or 3 letters ... NW, SSW, etc.

And maybe 'will' could even be 'bequest' or a hobbit!

[Galadriel55]

1. Seek inside, endure line break.
2. Strange, double reverse old?
3. Will warfarin lose distant direction?
4. Refresh point askew.
5. Confused above a sheep.
6. RUNE SON OF BJARNE Letter, relation, belonging, name.
7. Champion of Sam's cooking-gear.


Pervinca, you have the right synonym for "distant". You don't have the right base.

Hui - turns out I also fixated in your guess for rune=letter, because I could not think of any other description.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah ... so would 7 be The Saucepan Man?

[Galadriel55]

Ah ... so would 7 be The Saucepan Man?

Indeed. :)



1. Seek inside, endure line break.
2. Strange, double reverse old?
3. Will warfarin lose distant direction?
4. Refresh point askew.
5. Confused above a sheep.
6. RUNE SON OF BJARNE Letter, relation, belonging, name.
7. SAUCEPAN MAN Champion of Sam's cooking-gear.

[Huinesoron]

And #2 must surely be ODDWEN, with old being both backwards and opposite.

EDIT: Warfarin is an anticoagulant sold under many, many names, most of which end with 'farin'. Nothing's springing out as super obvious.

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. Seek inside, endure line break.
2. ODDWEN Strange, double reverse old?
3. Will warfarin lose distant direction?
4. Refresh point askew.
5. Confused above a sheep.
6. RUNE SON OF BJARNE Letter, relation, belonging, name.
7. SAUCEPAN MAN Champion of Sam's cooking-gear.


EDIT: Warfarin is an anticoagulant sold under many, many names, most of which end with 'farin'. Nothing's springing out as super obvious.

I am not a fan of brand names. Generic names all the way!
Also, it's irrelevant to the clue. You don't need to do any pharmacology research for this.

[Pervinca Took]

Is the password DOWNERS?

[Pervinca Took]

4. Can we coin a verb 'newen' for refresh and add an R for Nerwen? :D (It isn't askew, though).

I was trying to get the sheepy one to make Nerwen, with ewe for the sheep.

EDIT: Ah! RENEW plus N for the direction, once askew, gives us NERWEN.

[Pervinca Took]

3. Is there a Downer called Wilwarin, or have I imagined it?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Durelin (within 'endure line.')

[Galadriel55]

PASSWORD: DOWNERS


1. DURELIN Seek inside, endure line break.
2. ODDWEN Strange, double reverse old?
3. WILWARIN Will warfarin lose distant direction?
4. NERWEN Refresh point askew.
5. Confused above a sheep.
6. RUNE SON OF BJARNE Letter, relation, belonging, name.
7. SAUCEPAN MAN Champion of Sam's cooking-gear.

Correct on all points!
3. willwarfarin - far - l = wilwarin.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah .. and EWE and ON do make something Tolkienian ... is there a Downer called EONWE?

[Galadriel55]

Ah .. and EWE and ON do make something Tolkienian ... is there a Downer called EONWE?

There is indeed!


1. DURELIN Seek inside, endure line break.
2. ODDWEN Strange, double reverse old?
3. WILWARIN Will warfarin lose distant direction?
4. NERWEN Refresh point askew.
5. EONWE Confused above a sheep.
6. RUNE SON OF BJARNE Letter, relation, belonging, name.
7. SAUCEPAN MAN Champion of Sam's cooking-gear.


So that's the little Downs tribute on this thread. Though if you want a proper Downish challenge, you should try this one (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=663937&postcount=3020) from way back.

Cheers, and over to you Pervinca!

[Pervinca Took]

A worthy tribute indeed, Galadriel! :) I will try that crossword some time, but I think I'd have to copy it out first, or try to print it.

Here's the next password:

1. Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
2. Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
3. He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
4. Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
5. He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
6. He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
7. She ascended.

[Galadriel55]

7. Rose?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
2. Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
3. He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
4. Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
5. He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
6. He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
ROSE: She ascended.

[Galadriel55]

4. AREDHEL = red heal

[Pervinca Took]

1. Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
2. Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
3. He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
AREDHEL: Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
5. He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
6. He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
ROSE: She ascended.

[Galadriel55]

Thoughts on 6:

I'm convinced that transgression is SIN, but I can't get a male anagram. What can filth be? Mire... mud... muck.. grime... I can't get an anagram to work, but maybe this will give others ideas.

[Pervinca Took]

Sin is correct, and one of your four filth synonyms is correct. Together, the two of them contain all the letters you need.

[Galadriel55]

Ok, I need some help here. Hui? Mith? Nerwen? Anyone?

[Pervinca Took]

Think hobbitishly. :)

[Huinesoron]

Okay: time to cheat. From my attempts at making a square riddle generator, I still have a list of all the articles on the Encyclopedia of Arda. Attacking that with what we know:

-'Muck+Sin' is the easiest to eliminate. U,K, and S only appear together in 7 entries, and none of them come close. (The only Hobbitish one is 'Bucklanders'; I guess they don't have an article called 'Brandybucks', but there's no B anyway.)

-'Mud+Sin' is almost as easy, because D isn't very common either. It does pop up the awesomely-named Dudo Baggins, but other than that it's mostly various phrases.

-'Mire' looks like a stretch for 'filth', so I'll skip it for now; it's also not very easy to find a concise search string for. (Yes, I could just look for anything that contains all the letters, but I'd rather not.)

-'Grime+Sin' has G, R, and S; that gives a lot of hits for 'great', but does finally take me down to:

ISENGRIM Took, the name of three Thains of the Shire. The first is of unknown date, the second presided over the building of the Great Smials (and the adjustment of the calendar, and the first growing of pipe-weed...), and the third a short-reigning son of the Old Took. The name comes from a mythical wolf, but sadly there's no attested harsh winters that could lead to a delightful Hobbit epic about Thain Isengrim I and the Wolf.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
2. Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
3. He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
AREDHEL: Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
5. He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
ISENGRIM: He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
ROSE: She ascended.

I didn't think it was *that* hard!

[Formendacil]

1. Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
2. Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
3. He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
AREDHEL: Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
5. He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
ISENGRIM: He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
ROSE: She ascended.

I didn't think it was *that* hard!

The Password looks like "Faramir" would fit... but I haven't an answer to any of the clues!

[Huinesoron]

I didn't think it was *that* hard!

It probably isn't if you remember Isengrim Took exists... I know he's your great-great-uncle, Pervinca, but we're not all Shire-lorists! ^_~

The Password looks like "Faramir" would fit... but I haven't an answer to any of the clues!

If this is right, the 'royal dwarf, transformed' clue could point at an anagram of either Durin or Thorin (or Thrain or Thror...), beginning with R. Nothing's really jumping out, though.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

F: Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
A: Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
R: He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
AREDHEL: Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
M: He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
ISENGRIM: He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
ROSE: She ascended.

Faramir it is!

You are right in your method for the first R clue. You just need to start with a different dwarf.

[Huinesoron]

Hmm. The line of Durin looks to only include four dwarves with R in their names, all of which I mentioned. Azaghâl of Belegost doesn't have an R. Bodruith, Lost Tales Lord of Belegost (later replaced by a nameless Lord of Nogrod) does, but with that B he doesn't anagrammate to anything suitable.

I mean, technically Nár is a 'royal dwarf', in the sense of 'royal guard' - he was Thror's companion when he went loopy. And I'm sure I remember RAN being the name of a Lost Tales character somewhere. But I doubt that's what you're after. ;)

Looked at more loosely, practically every named dwarf is related to the royal line, so they could all be royal. Um... there's a dwarf called Borin (younger son of Nain II, apparently), which anagrams to ROBIN, either Smallburrow or Gamgee.

I can't shake the idea that A should be Adam Ant... and oh look, there's an ADAMANTA CHUBB, aka Mrs. Old Took.

Other than Aredhel, these all look to be Hobbit names (Faramir being Pip's lad)... but amusing though it would be, I can't find any evidence of an Aredhel Baggins, Boffin, or Proudfoot.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

F: Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
ADAMANTA: Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
ROBIN: He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
AREDHEL: Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
M: He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
ISENGRIM: He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
ROSE: She ascended.

Very good! However:

1. The Faramir of this password is NOT Faramir Took.

2. None of the remaining answers are hobbits.

[Huinesoron]

... hang on. Adamanta and Isengrim are mother and son. Rose and Robin are, too.

FINDUILAS and MAEGLIN would fit for the last two clues, as mother of Faramir and son of Aredhel. But do they work with the actual clues?

-Duinhir, Duilin, and Derufin are three bowmen from the Blackroot Dale, with Duinhir being 'the tall'. Duilin fits in the middle of 'Finduilas', suitably spun around, and leaves us with F (for fast) + LAS (for lass) trapping him.

-Maeglin... is perfectly described by the clue. I can't see synonyms for 'feeble' or 'spirit' in there, so I'm going to tentatively peg this as a straight clue that sneakily looks cryptic.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

FINDUILAS: Tall bowman spun around and entrapped by fast lady! (Well, almost).
ADAMANTA: Early eighties icon, a girl appears.
ROBIN: He’s a royal dwarf, transformed.
AREDHEL: Troubled? Ruddy cure her!
MAEGLIN: He’s a feeble spirit, but twisted.
ISENGRIM: He combines filth and transgression. In chaos, what’s more!
ROSE: She ascended.

THEME: MOTHERS & SONS

Maeglin is fully cryptic (LAME + GIN) and half straight. (Well, 'feeble spirit' could perhaps be argued to apply to him). I agree that he's pretty twisted.

You are right about DUILIN (cue one of the most haunting lines sung by Oz Clarke - that's why I always remember Derufin and Duilin). But he's *almost* trapped by 'fast' because he's trapped by FAS only (most of 'fast') ... and then 'lady' is the straight clue.

This one was a bit harder to make work than my 'mothers and sons' one. Hence I resorted to a few less well-known hobbits. I guess they're useful for a puzzle based on a family relationship, since they are obsessed with family history and exhibiting it on trees!

Well done!

And over to Formendacil!

[Pervinca Took]

Formendacil ...?

[Formendacil]

Sorry, I've been absolutely devoured by work the past couple weeks--I'm there right now, in fact...

However, I have managed to string together a semi-coherent quiz:

1. My wife to Mandos
2. Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu



I have no idea if this'll make any sense...

[Pervinca Took]

1. Vaire?

(Sorry work has been so overwhelming. Hope it eases soon).

[Pervinca Took]

5. Tempted to say Rohan, but Rohan is a shop that specialises in outdoor clothing and footwear, not jewellery.

[Pervinca Took]

Just to bring Formendacil's password onto the current page:

1. My wife to Mandos
2. Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu

And to add my first guess of Vaire for number 1 (which is now on the last page).

[Formendacil]

No to 1. being Vaire.

No to 5. being Rohan.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Finwe, whose first wife went to Mandos?

[Huinesoron]

7. Ost-in-Edhil, which is close to the West Gate of Moria and, y'know, starts with '[l]ost in' and then a word related to elves?

hS

[Formendacil]

No to Finwe, but....

1. My wife to Mandos
2. Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Ost-in-Edhil Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu

[Galadriel55]

1. Beren, for the same reasoning as Finwe?

[Formendacil]

1. Beren, for the same reasoning as Finwe?

And, sadly, wrong for the same reason. ;-)

[Pervinca Took]

'Dwarves' alternative fumes' reminds me that I always want to sing:

"The dwarves of yore made mighty sMells
While hammers fell like ringing bells.'

(Especially Fror the Flatulent).

But that probably wasn't what you had in mind.

But whilst I'm on the topic:

8. The famous toilet plunger of the Corsairs.

[Pervinca Took]

9. Doo + Luke ... Durbatuluk?

Well, the 'tu' of 'Stu' is in it.

Or Doobydoo + Luke with the 'tu' of Stu overwriting the second 'doo?'

[Huinesoron]

1. Eol is the only person I know of who sent his own wife to Mandos.

I really want 3 to point to the name of an Ent, but... it doesn't seem to. :( I also can't find anywhere in Treebeard's song about Beleriand which is a lawn... there was at least one dancing-lawn in Neldoreth, I suppose, but I'm going a bit off-key here.

(Hmm, I wonder if Treebeard was able to pass the Girdle of Melian...?)

8. I mean, there was a Siege of Pelargir, which fits the description... I guess?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could 2 be RUNES?

If you swap two letters of fumes, you get runes, which dwarves use a lot.

[Formendacil]

But that probably wasn't what you had in mind.

Indeed, no.

8. The famous toilet plunger of the Corsairs.

No.

9. Doo + Luke ... Durbatuluk?

Well, the 'tu' of 'Stu' is in it.

Or Doobydoo + Luke with the 'tu' of Stu overwriting the second 'doo?'

No.

1. Eol is the only person I know of who sent his own wife to Mandos.

No.

8. I mean, there was a Siege of Pelargir, which fits the description... I guess?

No.

Could 2 be RUNES?

If you swap two letters of fumes, you get runes, which dwarves use a lot.

No.



Once the password is achieved, I suspect, these will fall fairly quickly, but in the meantime I will say that each clue is twofold: an element directly pertaining to its appropriate answer word, and an element that links to the Password.

[Pervinca Took]

Could the password be LOCATIONS?

[Galadriel55]

Ok, I'm now wondering if #1 is a cheeky SISTER. :cool::rolleyes:

[Formendacil]

Could the password be LOCATIONS?

No, but it's not too conceptually far off.

[Formendacil]

Ok, I'm now wondering if #1 is a cheeky SISTER. :cool::rolleyes:

No, but I like the out of the box thinking.

[Pervinca Took]

The only mill I know of is Sandyman's, which doesn't seem to fit.

Could the grinding be the grinding ice? HELCARAXE?

I can't find any components except for 'Hell!' as an alternative exclamation to the 'Oh!,' though.

(Unless it's something to do with lego!!)

[Formendacil]

The only mill I know of is Sandyman's, which doesn't seem to fit.

Could the grinding be the grinding ice? HELCARAXE?

I can't find any components except for 'Hell!' as an alternative exclamation to the 'Oh!,' though.

(Unless it's something to do with lego!!)

While LEGO *is* near and dear to my heart, it is not relevant here, and Helcaraxe is NOT the answer.

But you ARE getting warmer thinking about Sandyman...

[Huinesoron]

5. The river Adorn runs near Fangorn, and jewellery adorns you.
6. If you're coughing, your breath sounds ill, like Brethil; alternately, you might be ailing & ill - Aelin-Uial. Both border Doriath.
9. I think 'du' has to appear in this; the only possible starting with L (for Luke or Leia) is Lugdush (Luke-Doo-sh) the Uruk-hai. Perhaps he was played by Stuart?

Since I'm pretty sure this is wrong, a thought: 'Stu' as a straight clue could point to a Steward of Gondor.

...

OH WAIT.

Rot's that? Rour name's Han? 'ro, Han!

9. Rohan, thanks very much to Steward Cirion.

hS