Password

[Huinesoron]

... which makes me think that the last three letters of the password are probably OUR, which makes 8. Umbar ('um, bar!').

hS

[Formendacil]

1. My wife to Mandos
2. Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Brethil Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Ost-in-Edhil Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. Umbar The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Rohan Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu

Three right answers!


Adorn, however, is wrong.

[Pervinca Took]

4. Sarehole?

Or NEIGHBOUR for the password?

[Formendacil]

4. Sarehole?

Or NEIGHBOUR for the password?

No to Sarehole...

...but YES to Neighbour!

[Huinesoron]

5. I'm guessing something to do with HELM, which can act like jewellery to men. Neither the DEEP, DIKE, nor GATE seem to obviously connect, though.

I can find answers to the straight clue which fit the letters for 1-3 (Nienna, Erebor, and Isen(gard) respectively), but can't connect any of them to the cryptic clues.

4. ... I might hazard GORLIM, with 'limb' for leg, and 'gor blimey!' I don't remember him or Eilinel being millers, though.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe 1 is someone whose wife is a neighbour to Mandos.

Neithan ... Nienor has just killed herself? But tenuous. Also, I think mortals go to Mandos and then leave?

If the letters making up NAMO meant 'my wife,' it would be really handy!

[Huinesoron]

I wonder whether 'my wife' could point at Formendacil, and specifically at the answer being North (formen) -something. But I can't come up with anything that would fit.

Formenos is pretty close to the Halls of Mandos, but it never acquired an Anglicised name, which would be 'North Fortress' anyway. (Northchester would be a good English placename for it, come to think; or maybe I just like sticking -chester on the end of things... I've gotten off-topic.)

Hmm... Tolkien Gateway points out that 'Formenos' in Quenya translates to 'Fornost' in Sindarin, which does have a Hobbitish form: NORBURY. So I guess I'll guess that for #1, though 'bury' to 'bride' is a bit of a leap.

hS

[Formendacil]

5. I'm guessing something to do with HELM, which can act like jewellery to men. Neither the DEEP, DIKE, nor GATE seem to obviously connect, though.

I can find answers to the straight clue which fit the letters for 1-3 (Nienna, Erebor, and Isen(gard) respectively), but can't connect any of them to the cryptic clues.

4. ... I might hazard GORLIM, with 'limb' for leg, and 'gor blimey!' I don't remember him or Eilinel being millers, though.

hS

No to Gorlim.

I won't say which, but you *might* want to revisit those three solutions you can't connect to the clues.

Maybe 1 is someone whose wife is a neighbour to Mandos.

Neithan ... Nienor has just killed herself? But tenuous. Also, I think mortals go to Mandos and then leave?

If the letters making up NAMO meant 'my wife,' it would be really handy!

That "maybe" is correct--but Neithan and Nienor are both wrong.

I wonder whether 'my wife' could point at Formendacil, and specifically at the answer being North (formen) -something. But I can't come up with anything that would fit.

Formenos is pretty close to the Halls of Mandos, but it never acquired an Anglicised name, which would be 'North Fortress' anyway. (Northchester would be a good English placename for it, come to think; or maybe I just like sticking -chester on the end of things... I've gotten off-topic.)

Hmm... Tolkien Gateway points out that 'Formenos' in Quenya translates to 'Fornost' in Sindarin, which does have a Hobbitish form: NORBURY. So I guess I'll guess that for #1, though 'bury' to 'bride' is a bit of a leap.

hS

No to Norbury--and I'll give away for free that the answer does not start with "North."

[Pervinca Took]

Lawn could be GARTH. 'To be' is SEIN in German.

Isen + garth is almost ISENGARD.

[Formendacil]

1. My wife to Mandos
2. Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Isengard Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Brethil Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Ost-in-Edhil Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. Umbar The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Rohan Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu

I no longer actually remember my exact reasoning being Isengard (and my notes have disappeared...) but it is the correct answer AND was something to the effect of "is in-yard."

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe this is Nimrodel? She became a resident/neighbour of Mandos when she drowned. Maybe it's Amroth speaking? (Also in the Halls of Mandos? I know they weren't exactly married, but ...).

Or maybe it's Nessa, who does have an actual spouse: Tulkas.

Or, hang on ... is the answer the husband?

[Formendacil]

Maybe this is Nimrodel? She became a resident/neighbour of Mandos when she drowned. Maybe it's Amroth speaking? (Also in the Halls of Mandos? I know they weren't exactly married, but ...).

Or maybe it's Nessa, who does have an actual spouse: Tulkas.

Or, hang on ... is the answer the husband?

No to Nimrodel.

No to Nessa.

[Galadriel55]

2. Esgaroth. It's a stretch but it has OR, GAS, and is next to some dwarves.

[Huinesoron]

1. ... NURUFANTUR? As a name for Mandos (oh, has NAMO been officially dismissed yet?), whose wife Vaire is, obviously, a neighbour to her husband. And it would make sense of the 'my', since it's referring to the man himself.

hS

[Formendacil]

1. My wife to Mandos
2. Esgaroth Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Isengard Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Brethil Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Ost-in-Edhil Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. Umbar The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Rohan Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu


Yes to Esgaroth (OTHER GAS).

No to Nurufantur. And to Namo.

[Pervinca Took]

4. GROND? (Has to be worth a shot! (I wouldn't want it to run over my leg, anyway!))

(I (wrongly) guessed Namo a little while ago, Hs).

Other gas? Great clue!

[Pervinca Took]

1. Apparently Finwe was surnamed NOLDORAN, and I think Miriel was the first person ever to go to Mandos?

5. HORNBURG, with 'horn' as men's jewellery?

[Formendacil]

4. GROND? (Has to be worth a shot! (I wouldn't want it to run over my leg, anyway!))

(I (wrongly) guessed Namo a little while ago, Hs).

Other gas? Great clue!

No to Grond.

1. Apparently Finwe was surnamed NOLDORAN, and I think Miriel was the first person ever to go to Mandos?

5. HORNBURG, with 'horn' as men's jewellery?

No to Noldoran.

No to Hornburg.

[Galadriel55]

Does Earendil have a name that starts with N? Elwing dwelled on the Westernmost shores which is also the location of the Halls of Mandos.

I'm running out of ideas here. I feel like I can't come up with anything half as clever as Sister :p.

[Pervinca Took]

There aren't many characters beginning with N, and of them, the dwarf-names aren't much help, seeing as we never hear of their wives.

What was your sister answer, G55?

[Galadriel55]

What was your sister answer, G55?

Just a bit of Downs history (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17323): Form's wife's nick is a sister to Mandos. I thought it was an exceedingly clever answer at the time. :rolleyes: But now I can't think of anything that would click nearly as much as that did. :rolleyes: This clue is really bugging me. :confused:

[Galadriel55]

We were all thinking about the wrong Gap. *facepalm*

5. Himring.

[Pervinca Took]

Just to get it onto this page:

1. My wife to Mandos
2. Esgaroth Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Isengard Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Brethil Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Ost-in-Edhil Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. Umbar The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Rohan Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu

[Formendacil]

Just a bit of Downs history (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17323): Form's wife's nick is a sister to Mandos. I thought it was an exceedingly clever answer at the time. :rolleyes: But now I can't think of anything that would click nearly as much as that did. This clue is really bugging me. :confused:

Should have guessed it, then. "Sister" was not the answer. :p

[Formendacil]

1. Nienna My wife to Mandos
2. Esgaroth Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Isengard Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Himring Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Brethil Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Ost-in-Edhil Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. Umbar The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Rohan Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu

Yes to Himring--I was quite pleased with my Gap diversion. And I have obviously credited Nienna, despite SISTER being G88's actual guess. It would be too coy even for me to remain silent.

[Pervinca Took]

Oh, I thought it wasn't Nienna because you told Hs to look again at just one of his 3 guesses .. and Isengard was correct, which I thought was one of the three.

...

Where is the 'Neighbour' bit of Rohan, though? Did Scooby Doo's ancestors live near the border? :D

4. Groin? (Sounds like groaning?)

[Formendacil]

Oh, I thought it wasn't Nienna because you told Hs to look again at just one of his 3 guesses .. and Isengard was correct, which I thought was one of the three.

...

Where is the 'Neighbour' bit of Rohan, though? Did Scooby Doo's ancestors live near the border? :D

I actually had both Nienna and Isengard in mind when I suggested revisiting those guesses--I did try to keep it indeterminate which ones or how many.

The "thanks to Stu" was, in fact, a reference to Steward Cirion: i.e. Rohan was a neighbour thanks to him.



How are we doing on "Oh, leg!"? Cause it's not Groin.

[Galadriel55]

Well. I was convinced that Nienna was specifically rejected at one point, but I guess I didn't remember properly. I thiught we went through all of the Valar whose names started with N and discarded everything. :confused: I should pay more attention.


There was something about Sandyman's mill being a good line of thought for the leg clue. I couldn't find anything imteresting on the hobbiton map. Could it be one of the -foot families? I don't think they start with G though.

[Pervinca Took]

No, there's Proudfoot, and I think there might be Puddifoot, but can't think of any others offhand.

Grubbs or Goodbodies could be neighbours to Sandyman, though.

A leg is a body part ....

Or GALPSI has G (Gee!) for 'oh,' and LAP for 'leg.' The 'real' version of the name Gamgee.

Or G plus LAPIS (stone, used in grinding). But leg?

[Formendacil]

No, there's Proudfoot, and I think there might be Puddifoot, but can't think of any others offhand.

Grubbs or Goodbodies could be neighbours to Sandyman, though.

A leg is a body part ....

Or GALPSI has G (Gee!) for 'oh,' and LAP for 'leg.' The 'real' version of the name Gamgee.

Of G plus LAPIS (stone, used in grinding). But leg?

No to Grubbs, no to Galpsi, no to Goodbodies.

You ARE on the right track with looking for neighbours to the Sandymans (Sandymen?).

[Pervinca Took]

Gamgees? 'Oh leg!' due to a game/gammy leg?

[Formendacil]

1. Nienna My wife to Mandos
2. Esgaroth Dwarves' alternative fumes
3. Isengard Oh, to be a lawn of Fangorn!
4. Gamgee The "oh, leg!" of grinding.
5. Himring Men's jewelry of the Gap
6. Brethil Sounds like coughing in Menegroth
7. Ost-in-Edhil Lost in [elvish translation] by the West Gate
8. Umbar The "uh, it's blocked" of Pelargir
9. Rohan Scooby greets Star Wars, thanks to Stu

And that's the set! "Gam, gee!" = "oh, leg!" Gam, and I don't remember anymore why I know this, is slang for leg. E.g. "my gams are aching."

[Pervinca Took]

Gams? Haven't heard it before, although there's 'most weak hams' in 'Hamlet' (from when Hamlet is making rude remarks about old men to Polonius). I think it means legs. I will add 'gams' to my knowledge bank.

A great choice of password; we have had so many themes now that we have to put our thinking caps on to think of new ones.

I was in a mood for writing passwords and clues the other week, and wrote another four. :D


I cast *this* one into verse, as I hope you observe:

1. Gwaihir soars above, while little Elanor runs free –
2. The branch is on the water, (the river, not the sea).
3. Alone, this one is mournful; it’s desolate and old;
4. The stork delivers cargo, (traditionally told).
5. Here’s Christmas in abundance, or so the flora says!
6. In Lorien, a songbird even here may write her lays.
7. If Smaug were filled with envy, here he’d frighten all the mutts!
8. But here the plosives flourish, and the little horse struts.

[Formendacil]

5. looks like it might be either EREGION or HOLLIN.

[Pervinca Took]

Right logic, but wrong answer.

[Urwen]

3. Erui

[Pervinca Took]

No.

I've edited clue 2 back to the first way I wrote it, which I think sounds prettier. I only changed it because I thought it made the clue too easy.

[Urwen]

2. Stock-brook?

[Pervinca Took]

No, but geographically quite close.

[Urwen]

Thistle-brook

[Pervinca Took]

It isn't a brook of any kind.

[Urwen]

Withywindle then?

[Pervinca Took]

Urwen, given the meaning of 'withy,' that was actually a really good guess. But not the answer.

I might give hints later on, but if I do, all the clues could tumble at once, and I want to give everyone a shot at them first.

[Galadriel55]

Can 1 be Eagle&Child (or Bird & Baby)?

[Galadriel55]

8. Prancing Pony?

[Formendacil]

Given that both "branch" and "bark" point at trees, and given that the Water points us to central parts of the Shire, we seem to be looking for a tree-name near the Stockbrook. But, without the map of the Shire to hand, I'm blanking on an obvious candidate.

[Galadriel55]

7. Green Dragon?


Is it all things made up of 2 words? Or maybe 3, if you put "the" in front.

[Pervinca Took]

THE EAGLE AND CHILD: Gwaihir soars above, while little Elanor runs free –
2. The branch is on the water, (the river, not the sea).
3. Alone, this one is mournful; it’s desolate and old;
4. The stork delivers cargo, (traditionally told).
5. Here’s Christmas in abundance, or so the flora says!
6. In Lorien, a songbird even here may write her lays.
THE GREEN DRAGON: If Smaug were filled with envy, here he’d frighten all the mutts!
THE PRANCING PONY: But here the plosives flourish, and the little horse struts.

[Galadriel55]

3. The Lonely Mountain? :confused:

[Pervinca Took]

No. ;)

[Formendacil]

Is 3. the Forsaken Inn?

[Galadriel55]

Ah. 2 = The Floating Log.

It's all taverns and pubs and inns and such, eh? Dunno what can start with G though for the password.

Is 4. Bird and Baby?

[Galadriel55]

6. The Golden Perch

[Urwen]

The password is 'Inn', I think.

[Pervinca Took]

THE EAGLE AND CHILD: Gwaihir soars above, while little Elanor runs free –
THE FLOATING LOG: The branch is on the water, (the river, not the sea).
THE FORSAKEN INN: Alone, this one is mournful; it’s desolate and old;
THE BIRD AND BABY: The stork delivers cargo, (traditionally told).
5. Here’s Christmas in abundance, or so the flora says!
THE GOLDEN PERCH: In Lorien, a songbird even here may write her lays.
THE GREEN DRAGON: If Smaug were filled with envy, here he’d frighten all the mutts!
THE PRANCING PONY: But here the plosives flourish, and the little horse struts.

THEME: INNS, PUBS & TAVERNS

[Urwen]

5. Ivy Bush

[Galadriel55]

Good Beer? ;)

[Urwen]

And 'Good Beer' as the password?

[Urwen]

Good Beer? ;)


:(

[Pervinca Took]

THE EAGLE AND CHILD: Gwaihir soars above, while little Elanor runs free –
THE FLOATING LOG: The branch is on the water, (the river, not the sea).
THE FORSAKEN INN: Alone, this one is mournful; it’s desolate and old;
THE BIRD AND BABY: The stork delivers cargo, (traditionally told).
THE IVY BUSH: Here’s Christmas in abundance, or so the flora says!
THE GOLDEN PERCH: In Lorien, a songbird even here may write her lays.
THE GREEN DRAGON: If Smaug were filled with envy, here he’d frighten all the mutts!
THE PRANCING PONY: But here the plosives flourish, and the little horse struts.

THEME: INNS, PUBS & TAVERNS

It seems that G55 and Urwen posted simultaneously.

[Urwen]

Wanna solve that with rock, paper, scissors?

[Galadriel55]

Wanna solve that with rock, paper, scissors?

If you want it that much it's all yours.

[Urwen]

If you want it that much it's all yours.


How about this?


I'll give myself a period of 24 hours to make one. If I don't make one in that time, you'd take the turn instead.

[Pervinca Took]

The Ivy Bush did complete the password, and was posted first (even though in the same minute as Galadriel's post).

So over to Urwen.

But big kudos to Galadriel for figuring that it was about inns and guessing 6 of them.

[Galadriel55]

How about this?


I'll give myself a period of 24 hours to make one. If I don't make one in that time, you'd take the turn instead.

Take your time. :) Make it a good one. :)

[Urwen]

1. A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

2. She is close to the confused pronoun

3. A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

4. His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

5. He made a pledge to the moon.

6. Put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

7. Her counsel shaped the future.

8. A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

9. He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.



This one has a theme too, see if you can figure out what it is. Also, clues 4 and 7 have no cryptic elements. :)

[Pervinca Took]

7. Galadriel?

[Pervinca Took]

4. Thorin?

[Pervinca Took]

8. Eol, (Maeglin's father), from Leo.

[Galadriel55]

9. LOTHO = lot + ho

[Pervinca Took]

I think Eol and G55's Lotho are probably correct (whilst I don't think my two first guesses are as likely to be correct).

So I wonder if the theme is people who were murdered rather than killed in battle (even though Eol's death could be classed as an execution).

If so, FINDUILAS might be more likely for clue 7.

[Urwen]

1. A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

2. She is close to the confused pronoun

3. A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

4. His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

5. He made a pledge to the moon.

6. Put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

7. Her counsel shaped the future.

EOL: A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

LOTHO: He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.


Those two are correct, but the theme isn't murdered people (although it's close)

[Pervinca Took]

7. Maybe NIENNA, because Olorin learned pity from her, which certainly shaped events and outcomes in the Third Age.

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Pervinca Took]

1. THEO + DEN = THEODEN, who was squished by Snowmane, Lightfoot's foal.

[Urwen]

Also, I fudged up one of the clues.


Fixed.


THEODEN: A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

2. She is close to a pronoun, in confusion.

3. A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

4. His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

5. He made a pledge to the moon.

6. In confusion, put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

7. Her counsel shaped the future.

EOL: A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

LOTHO: He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.


Found another one.

[Pervinca Took]

Password: TINDOMIEL?

[Urwen]

Nope.


(Is that even canon?)

[Pervinca Took]

Yes. She was the only daughter of Elros.

[Urwen]

The answer is still nope.

[Pervinca Took]

TAR-MIRIEL for the password.

[Pervinca Took]

2. ARIEN (near + I, confused).

[Pervinca Took]

3. RIAN (Anagram of 'Iran').

[Urwen]

Arien is not quite correct. Try switching some letters of that around.



THEODEN: A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

A: She is close to a pronoun, in confusion.

RIAN: A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

M: His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

I: He made a pledge to the moon.

R: In confusion, put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

I: Her counsel shaped the future.

EOL: A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

LOTHO: He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.


Also, have you figured out the theme yet?

[Galadriel55]

Isildur for the moon pledge.

Is it people who died untimely deaths?

[Galadriel55]

...Mim for greed?

[Urwen]

THEODEN: A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

A: She is close to a pronoun, in confusion.

RIAN: A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

MIM: His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

ISILDUR: He made a pledge to the moon.

R: In confusion, put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

I: Her counsel shaped the future.

EOL: A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

LOTHO: He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.


Quite right on all accounts.

[Pervinca Took]

AERIN for the A clue.

Did Isildur make such a pledge, or is the answer made from elements of his name?

[Urwen]

THEODEN: A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

AERIN: She is close to a pronoun, in confusion.

RIAN: A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

MIM: His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

ISILDUR: He made a pledge to the moon.

R: In confusion, put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

I: Her counsel shaped the future.

EOL: A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

LOTHO: He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.






Did Isildur make such a pledge, or is the answer made from elements of his name?


The latter.

[Pervinca Took]

IVORWEN's counsel shaped the future. She supported the marriage of Arathorn and her daughter Gilraen, which led to the birth of Aragorn and the reuniting of the realms of Gondor and Arnor.

[Urwen]

You're like a pro at this


THEODEN: A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

AERIN: She is close to a pronoun, in confusion.

RIAN: A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

MIM: His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

ISILDUR: He made a pledge to the moon.

R: In confusion, put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

IVORWEN: Her counsel shaped the future.

EOL: A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

LOTHO: He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.




(I'll give you a hand for final one, cos it's a bit difficult to get. Focus your efforts on a certain group of outlaws)

[Pervinca Took]

I couldn't find proof that Ivorwen died young, though.

[Pervinca Took]

Is R RADHRUIN? 'Hard run' with 'I' for the pronoun.

[Urwen]

And that completes it.




THEODEN: A male name followed by the cave reveals someone who was squished.

AERIN: She is close to a pronoun, in confusion.

RIAN: A mother lived in a confused country, in the East.

MIM: His own greed was the reason for his downfall.

ISILDUR: He made a pledge to the moon.

RADHRUIN: In confusion, put a pronoun in the middle of tiring jog in order to find him.

IVORWEN: Her counsel shaped the future.

EOL: A confused star sign unearths a traitor's father.

LOTHO: He is abundant, and makes Santa laugh.


I couldn't find proof that Ivorwen died young, though.



Well, I couln't find anyone with an initial 'I' who fit, so I made an adjustment there.

[Huinesoron]

That was an amazing password, Urwen; I didn't even come close to any of the answers before they fell.

Well, I couln't find anyone with an initial 'I' who fit, so I made an adjustment there.

That sounds like a challenge... ;)

Ibun, son of Mim, is confirmed dead by Mim's claim to be the last of his people. Ingold, aka Finrod, fits at least as well as Eol. But the one that actually came to my mind first is an invalid answer: Isfin, an early name for the princess we know as Aredhel Ar-Feiniel.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

It's a fairish bet that Ivorwen probably died young; she isn't heard of again, and the Wild is still the Wild, as JRR said. ;)

A good password, indeed. :)

I'll have another one up shortly.

I also came across (I think) Irisse for Aredhel, but the counsel bit didn't apply, so I kept looking.

Oh, and one of the Old Took's I-initial sons died young. Isengrim, I think.

[Pervinca Took]

1. He’s here (or in Norway) because of what an armoured heroine might need.
2. He’s three quarters of a particle.
3. Confused lad with a messy barnet, he is – crazy!
4. Invoice him.
5. Even when a bit muddled, he knows where his towel is.
6. Formerly supple, before he knotted up.
7. Woven or spun, he stands constant.

[Huinesoron]

2. TOM, surely (from 'atom'), though whether Bombadil or the ill-fated troll-kicker, I couldn't say.

Which I guess makes 4. BILL, presumably either Huggins, Ferny, or The Pony. (Did Tolkien just really like naming characters Bill or something?)

And 5... Less likely due to the missing letter, but Ford (Prefect) starts with most of a muddled FRODO.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. He’s here (or in Norway) because of what an armoured heroine might need.
TOM: He’s three quarters of a particle.
3. Confused lad with a messy barnet, he is – crazy!
BILL: Invoice him.
FRODO: Even when a bit muddled, he knows where his towel is.
6. Formerly supple, before he knotted up.
7. Woven or spun, he stands constant.

Three correct answers.

Ingenious to get Frodo from Ford, (well, I suppose a Dunadan, three hobbits and lots of elves once managed it), but in fact it's an anagram of frood, so there is no missing letter. And a very close anagram; hence only a bit muddled.

Ford Prefect himself is a particularly hoopy frood, of course. :)

[Huinesoron]

I'm getting a definite 'vicinity of the Shire' theme so... is the password STRIDER?

I also have a very odd notion about 1, which is that it might be connected to Scyld (~= Shield, which Eowyn could definitely have done with) Sheafing, Beowulf's mythic sea king who Tolkien I believe wrote about/intended to write about in The Lost Road.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

???S???: He’s here (or in Norway) because of what an armoured heroine might need.
TOM: He’s three quarters of a particle.
???R???: Confused lad with a messy barnet, he is – crazy!
BILL: Invoice him.
FRODO: Even when a bit muddled, he knows where his towel is.
???E???: Formerly supple, before he knotted up.
???R???: Woven or spun, he stands constant.

Password: Correct.
Theme: Wrong.

1. Nowt to do with Scyld, and nothing specifically to do with Eowyn.

Pay no attention to the location of the question marks. The letter could occur anywhere in the answer. (I may be more specific about this later - let's see how it goes first).

P.S. I have been slightly naughty with number 1.

[Huinesoron]

A vague thought on HARRY for #3, since 'barnet' seems to be something to do with hair, and it's a very close word. Also there's one in Bree. ;)

Or maybe BARLIMAN, which includes half of 'barnet' and the word 'man' (= lad), along with a soundalike for 'lie' which could fit either confused or crazy.

I dunno, nothing's really jumping out for any of them. :-/

hS

[Pervinca Took]

You're right about 'barnet' meaning 'hair,' but none of the remaining answers are hobbitish or Breeish. EDIT: SORRY - ONE OF THE REMAINING ANSWERS IS A HOBBIT. BUT ONLY ONE.

Can you work out what the theme is? That's the key to solving the rest of the clues. You kind of touched on it in your first post after I posted this password.

P.S. You missed a password cast into rhyming couplets, about pubs and inns of Middle-earth and Inklings - how very dare you have a life at weekends? ;) (Yes, I'm joking).

P.P.S. As it might not be well known outside Britain (or even southern England), barnet is short for Barnet Fair, and hence rhyming slang for 'hair.' (Barnet is a Hertfordshire town long since absorbed into the outmost northern part of Greater London; traditionally a market town (hence 'Fair,' like Scarborough Fair)). It's also a London Borough.

[Pervinca Took]

To make it easier:

?????????S: He’s here (or in Norway) because of what an armoured heroine might need.
TOM: He’s three quarters of a particle.
??R????: Confused lad with a messy barnet, he is – crazy!
BILL: Invoice him.
FRODO: Even when a bit muddled, he knows where his towel is.
E????????: Formerly supple, before he knotted up.
??R????: Woven or spun, he stands constant.

Whoops! Sorry. ONE of the remaining answers IS a hobbit name.

[Huinesoron]

Can you work out what the theme is? That's the key to solving the rest of the clues. You kind of touched on it in your first post after I posted this password.

Is it... are they all names which have applied to multiple characters? Frodo Took from the drafts (or Frodo Gardner, which is probably more reasonable), and of course the Bills and Toms... but Strider? Oh, wait, someone named their pony Strider! [Checks] Right, it was Frodo, the cheeky blighter.

In that case, 1 could be LEGOLAS (of Gondolin), which does include 'las(s)', and Lego is at least Scandinavian. But I'm less and less confident with each word I write.

Aha! The final answer could be VORONWE, a literal anagram of 'woven or', and meaning 'the Faithful'. Mardil the Steward took it as an aftername, and of course the original is Tuor's guide.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

?????????S: He’s here (or in Norway) because of what an armoured heroine might need.
TOM: He’s three quarters of a particle.
??R????: Confused lad with a messy barnet, he is – crazy!
BILL: Invoice him.
FRODO: Even when a bit muddled, he knows where his towel is.
E????????: Formerly supple, before he knotted up.
VORONWE: Woven or spun, he stands constant.

THEME: NAMES GIVEN TO MORE THAN ONE CHARACTER.

I had forgotten about Frodo Took! And he was a recent password of mine, too. I was thinking of Frodo Baggins and Frodo Gamgee (soon Gardner), but there was Pippin's prototype, too.

BILL: Huggins, Ferny, Pony. (There's Bill Stickers too, thinking about it, although not in one of the books!)

TOM: Trollsong Tom (with his big boots on), mutton-eating Troll in 'The Hobbit,' Tom Bombadil. Is there one in Smith of Wooton Major as well? And a few more if you count the Tolmans (Tom Cotton, father of Rose, and Tom, her youngest son).

P.S. No to Legolas.

[Huinesoron]

TOM: Trollsong Tom (with his big boots on), mutton-eating Troll in 'The Hobbit,' Tom Bombadil. Is there one in Smith of Wooton Major as well? And a few more if you count the Tolmans (Tom Cotton, father of Rose, and Tom, her youngest son).

Yep, Tomling, Smith's grandson. And Bilbo uses 'Tomnoddy' at the spiders, for that matter. I diiiiid consider making a password where all the answers were Tom, but it would have been kind of obvious after the first two. ^_~

For #3, how about FARAMIR? There's a few of them, and its an anagram of 'A fair Mr.'.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

For #3, how about FARAMIR? There's a few of them, and its an anagram of 'A fair Mr.'.

What a great and apt anagram ! For both meanings of 'fair.'

You do realise that many a fair lady has fainted at the sound of Andrew Seear playing that very character?

All of which does not alter the fact that it is WRONG! :D And 'a fair Mr' does NOT mean 'messy hair,' whether they affect this to add to their beauty or not.

Lots of Faramirs? Is there another besides Denethor's and Pippin's sons? Maybe, if you look through lists of stewards and things.

I WILL, however, give you a hint in return for that anagram, and tell you that the Norwegian reference in clue 1 is a literary one.

[Huinesoron]

All of which does not alter the fact that it is WRONG! :D And 'a fair Mr' dies NOT mean 'messy hair,' whether they affect this to add to their beauty or not.

I was going with Mr for 'lad', and fair as the other half of 'barnet fair'. The A was because... well... Faramir has another A. ;)

Lots of Faramirs? Is there another besides Denethor's and Pippin' sons? Maybe, if you look through lists of stewards and things.

Yep! Faramir's the kid who led to the first demise of the Line of Kings in Gondor: as second son of King Ondoher, he was meant to stay home for the battle, but snuck along and died along with his father and brother. Steward Pelendur ultimately passed the crown to his distant cousin, General Earnil.

I WILL, however, give you a hint in return for that anagram, and tell you that the Norwegian reference in clue 1 is a literary one.

Um. Well, the phrase 'Norwegian Wood' jumps to mind, but I think that's a song. (Apparently it's a book as well, but more famously a song.) Hmm.

hS

[Galadriel55]

I keep coming back to Barahir because it has HAIR, but I don't know what to make of the first part.

[Pervinca Took]

Not Barahir. A little less well-known, I think.

[Huinesoron]

I had to brute-force this by finding every 9-letter word starting with E and eliminating the unsuitable ones, but I finally found one that meets the theme. Then, to prove it, I had to try and find a synonym for 'supple' in it... and then figure out what the remaining letters gave.

ECTHELION was ONCE LITHE, though whether in Gondolin or Minas Tirith I couldn't say.

~

Of the remaining two, you've told us that one is a hobbit name, but you didn't seem to immediately remember it as such. That suggests that the other use of the name is non-Hobbittish, which in turn suggests either one of Sam's kids, or someone from the Took line (who all have weird names).

...

'GOLDILOCKS' is a direct translation of 'Glorfindel', and you did say you'd been a bit cheeky...

...

...

... oh, please no.

#1 looks likely to be 'FORTINBRAS', the name of two Thains of the Shire, and of Shakespeare's crown prince of Norway (also his dead dad). I have no idea whether Eowyn Fought In Bras, but I'm sure she would have appreciated the option.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

FORTINBRAS: He’s here (or in Norway) because of what an armoured heroine might need.
TOM: He’s three quarters of a particle.
??R????: Confused lad with a messy barnet, he is – crazy!
BILL: Invoice him.
FRODO: Even when a bit muddled, he knows where his towel is.
ECTHELION: Formerly supple, before he knotted up.
VORONWE: Woven or spun, he stands constant.

THEME: NAMES GIVEN TO MORE THAN ONE CHARACTER.

ONCE LITHE = ECTHELION, indeed.

FORTINBRAS is correct, and you are right that I primarily think of him as the third avenger of 'Hamlet,' whose words finish the play, and perhaps momentarily forgot that he's two hobbits as well, rather than a steward or something.

However, it's not 'fought in bras.' Which is not a grammatically correct answer to the clue. ;) And hardly does full justice to the 'armour' element. And I would have added something like 'sounds like' if the spelling was wrong, wouldn't I?

'Because' gives you FOR.

'Armoured heroine' suggests TIN BRAS.

Which an *armoured* heroine might need.

And that is why the letters appear ('why he's here').

(I added the Norway reference because he's not a well-known Thain and I thought it might be a bit difficult without it).

Still, it's rather wonderful that 'fought in bras' is a homophone of 'for tin bras,' which I wouldn't have known if you HAD got the elements right.

You still have the barnet one to guess, don't forget! Chop chop! :D

[Huinesoron]

I seem to be doing really well at getting answers for the wrong reasons this time. ^_^ There was Frodo Prefect, and now the Tin Bra... Faramir was wrong, though, I suppose.

ANYWAY. Did you know there are 59 pages on the Encyclopedia of Arda that fit the ??R???? pattern? Because there are. They include such delights as 'Morgoth' (certainly crazy, but I don't think being More Goth counts as a messy barnet), Saruman (preeeeetty sure there's only one of him), and... Turnips. ^_^

Hmm. HERUMOR is a possibility; it has the 'hair' sound, and is two people, in the Second and Fourth Ages. (I once saw a theory that the cult leader from the New Shadow is the same person as the Numenorean, and that both are synonymous with the Mouth of Sauron... nice idea, but not really supported.) But I can't make the rest of the clue fit.

There are two Baranors, but I can't fit him to the clue. Tolkien really liked reusing names, didn't he? That, or (considering 'Gorthol' as a name of Turin, meaning I guess 'nastyhat') giving people many names.

IMRAHIL has definite possibilities. It's almost HIM HAIR, except that one of the H has become an L. Though I can't actually find an earlier one? But I wouldn't be surprised if the royal line included multiple iterations.

I really want to do something with 'Imrazôr', because, y'know, razor... but no.

'Marhari' is maar haary, but no. ^_~

And... that exhausts my list, actually. Hmm. I wonder what ADRAHIL of Dol Amroth did wrong, that EofA doesn't have him (Tolkien Gateway does). Because his name is actually HAIR + LAD, and there were two of him a thousand years apart. So I think he's probably the strongest answer.

(Except for Marhari, all these names are Numenorean-Gondorian. Gondorians like that third-letter R sound, I guess?)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

FORTINBRAS: He’s here (or in Norway) because of what an armoured heroine might need.
TOM: He’s three quarters of a particle.
ADRAHIL: Confused lad with a messy barnet, he is – crazy!
BILL: Invoice him.
FRODO: Even when a bit muddled, he knows where his towel is.
ECTHELION: Formerly supple, before he knotted up.
VORONWE: Woven or spun, he stands constant.

THEME: NAMES GIVEN TO MORE THAN ONE CHARACTER

ADRAHIL it is! Hair + lad. (Much as one might wish it had been his cousin, 'Turnips,' from the rich root vegetable province of Lossarnach).

I confess that I too googled for multiple-character names to find the last few names, when preparing the puzzle.

Faramir was wrong - not sure if you mean one of your guesses was wrong, or Faramir misread the extent of his missus's renunciation of shieldmaidenhood and bought the wrong lingerie ....

Well, enough of that (for now).

And now: over to you! Well done.

P.S. Imrazor indeed! (Chortles).

[Huinesoron]

Eowyn, Lady of Ithilien, White Lady of Rohan, looked up at her husband. "And what might this be?"

Faramir glanced down at the Cormarë gift he had purchased for his wife. "A new thing out of Harad," he said. "They name it 'corset'; it is like to your binding-cloths, but perhaps more shapely."

Eowyn held the corset up before the sunlight, considering its lines. "It has the look of armour about it," she mused, "yet how could I fight when so constrained? Unable to bend, barely able to breathe, I should swiftly fall. No," she decided, lowering it onto her lap and meeting her husband's gaze with no hint of apology, "this may serve for the courtiers of Mundburg, but not for a Shieldmaiden of Ithilien."

"Ah." A smile fleeted across Faramir's face as the prince stepped forth to embrace his wife. "You misunderstand, my lady," he murmured, his breath warm upon her ear. "This gift... it is not for the battlefield, nor for the training ground." The smile returned, touched with mischief. "I believe it is intended to remain entirely within our own chambers."

"Ah." A flush of rose coloured Eowyn's cheeks, their fires lighting a sparkle in her eyes. "Ah."

(Sorry, sorry, but you should know better than to drop plot suggestions like that. :D)

Moving on!

1. The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

:D

Who wrote that? Or were you quoting from your own work? ;)

Could 5 be OLIPHAUNT, because oliphaunts are a lot taller than Sam?

[Huinesoron]

:D

Who wrote that? Or were you quoting from your own work? ;)

Worse - I'm afraid I hammered that out in response to your prompting. You are directly responsible for Eowyn's corsetry.

Could 5 be OLIPHAUNT, because oliphaunts are a lot taller than Sam?

It is not... but you're right about Sam being the half-wise.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Fish, then, because Sam hadn't guessed what Smeagol wanted?

[Pervinca Took]

Worse - I'm afraid I hammered that out in response to your prompting. You are directly responsible for Eowyn's corsetry.

hS

One would expect no less from a Took girl. Best dressmakers in the Shire!

[Huinesoron]

One would expect no less from a Took girl. Best dressmakers in the Shire!

:D I did consider having it be Shire-inspired fashion... should've gone that way, clearly.

It's not a fissssh, precious.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Are we talking about a gardening riddle ... a soil sieve?

[Huinesoron]

Are we talking about a gardening riddle ... a soil sieve?

That's a really clever answer! No. :D

All of the clues contain some combination of cryptic and straight components. In the case of #5, I think the split is fairly even.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Banazir has most of 'nadir' in it, for *a* low (noun). Erm ... and a bit of 'above.'

(Lack of capitals reflects how much hope I have that this is right!)

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid not.

'Cryptic' is probably the wrong word to use - at least a few of the clues simply point at the meaning of a name (in English or otherwise), and then tell you something about the person who bears it. (So 'Lothlorien's lady with a radiant garland' would have the 'cryptic' part as 'radiant garland', because that's what Galadriel means.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

OK ...

I thought 1 seemed to point at Halbarad, but apparently that means 'tall tower.'

GANDALF is the White Rider, and goes south. But although his name means 'Elf of the wand,' only the 'wand' part of that is true.

[Huinesoron]

OK ...

I thought 1 seemed to point at Halbarad, but apparently that means 'tall tower.'

GANDALF is the White Rider, and goes south. But although his name means 'Elf of the wand,' only the 'wand' part of that is true.

Neither of your answers are right, but one of them has found the right company.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Then I think it's the Grey Company, because they ride and the Fellowship don't (at least, not during the time they all travel together).

And I think it's either Elladan or Elrohir, as they are half-elven. Or because they are only half- half-elven, or 3/4 elven, due to Celebrian.

I'll guess ELROHIR, (elf rider).

The 'rider' half of his name is true, but the other half isn't ... or is only half true.

[Huinesoron]

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

Elrohir is correct, for exactly the reasons stated!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Just a guess at his twin, Elladan, for the password?

Actually, have I got that right? Were he and Elrohir twins, and Elrond and Elros too? And Elwing's two brothers?

[Huinesoron]

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. L Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. L Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. A Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. D Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. A In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. N A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

Well, that's certainly going to make things easier. ^_^ And yes, it appears that all the Elven male descendents of Dior were twins.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe that came from Luthien? It was said that her line would never fail, (maybe because she was half Maia). Or from the strong combined strain of Elf, Man and Maia in Dior.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Well, LALAITH has 'ith' and 'la' twice (but how is that following?) but it doesn't transform and she isn't fiery! Although her name does mean 'laughter.'

3. Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.

There aren't that many sisters in Tolkien's books. Luthien isn't one.

Lalwen/Lalwende and Lothiriel are. And Lalaith.

I feel that the answer needs to be the name of a sister of a Downer's name.

But perhaps it runs backwards, and ends with L. None of the sisters beginning with L seems to fit.

[Huinesoron]

2. Well, LALAITH has 'ith' and 'la' twice (but how is that following?) but it doesn't transform and she isn't fiery! Although her name does mean 'laughter.'

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. LALAITH - Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. L Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. A Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. D Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. A In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. N A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

Correct! But she's not just following: she's twice [a note to] follow, so. ^_~ Her original name was Urwen, which means 'fiery maiden'.


3. Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.

There aren't that many sisters in Tolkien's books. Luthien isn't one.

Lalwen/Lalwende and Lothiriel are. And Lalaith.

I feel that the answer needs to be the name of a sister of a Downer's name.

But perhaps it runs backwards, and ends with L. None of the sisters beginning with L seems to fit.

None of those names, but you're precisely right in both whose sister she is (though you could be even more precise), and that she ends with L (and therefore runs backwards).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, I didn't realise you were invoking Julie Andrews!

I honestly didn't know 'Urwen' meant 'fiery maiden' - is the transformation a reflection on a change to a very different name, then? Maybe she seemed fiery as a baby but transformed as a toddler and laughed, but bawled when she was a baby?

Why would they call a baby girl Urwen - have I forgotten something?

CLUE 3:

Galadriel has brothers - maybe one of them is a downer? She is from the shore (came to Middle-earth from Valinor) and we want the Valar to accept her back there? So a double meaning for 'send her back?'

[Huinesoron]

Why would they call a baby girl Urwen - have I forgotten something?

I think it's a name used for Arien; they basically called her 'Sunshine'.

Galadriel has brothers - maybe one of them is a downer? She is from the shore (came to Middle-earth from Valinor) and we want the Valar to accept her back there? So a double meaning for 'send her back?'

Not Galadriel, I'm afraid. In this case 'comes from the shore' is a pointer at the meaning of her name.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Only element I can find is FALAS/FALASSE (shore) or the root PHAL (foam).

[Pervinca Took]

4. ANGROD?

I was trying to get 'rod' to fit with 'angry.'

[Pervinca Took]

3. AILINEL apparently contains a word for 'lake.'

[Huinesoron]

Only element I can find is FALAS/FALASSE (shore) or the root PHAL (foam).

3. AILINEL apparently contains a word for 'lake.'

The name you're looking for is actually is in plain English - no Elvish required!

4. ANGROD?

I was trying to get 'rod' to fit with 'angry.'

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. LALAITH - Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. L Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. ANGROD - Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. D Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. A In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. N A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

Precisely; or you can get it from angry + odd. Either way you need to lose two letters ('two must fall') to get one of the Lords of Dorthonion.

hS

[Formendacil]

The name you're looking for is actually is in plain English

Could 5. be Sam's sister, Daisy?

[Huinesoron]

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. LALAITH - Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. L Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. ANGROD - Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. DAISY - Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. A In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. N A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

She is! (But do you know why?)

hS

[Formendacil]

She is! (But do you know why?)

hS

I'm afraid it's purely a guess from theme, first letter, and "half-wise."

[Huinesoron]

Well, a correct guess still counts. :) 'Low (riddling)' was intended to point at Bilbo's riddle to Gollum: 'an eye in a low place' etc.

hS

[Galadriel55]

3. Pearl, sister to Pervinca. Or rather LRAEP, since we need her backwards.

[Huinesoron]

3. Pearl, sister to Pervinca. Or rather LRAEP, since we need her backwards.

Correct!

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. LALAITH - Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. PEARL - Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. ANGROD - Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. DAISY - Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. A - In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. N - A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

'Our own' referred not just to the Downs, but to the Password thread itself. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Me be in a password clue and all? Hooray! :)

Never for a moment thought of it! And was expecting the name to end enel or anel or linel or something. A pearl from the shore ... brilliant!

Daisy is a clever clue as well. I didn't know or had forgotten that Sam had a big sister called Daisy, as well as a daughter. Also was not expecting hobbit answers, as you don't usually do hobbit clues!

[Huinesoron]

Me be in a password clue and all? Hooray! :)

Never for a moment thought of it! And was expecting the name to end enel or anel or linel or something. A pearl from the shore ... brilliant!

Daisy is a clever clue as well. I didn't know or had forgotten that Sam had a big sister called Daisy, as well as a daughter. Also was not expecting hobbit answers, as you don't usually do hobbit clues!

^_^ I actually kind of wanted to use you yourself for this one - Pervinca would fit the theme just as well as Pearl - but I couldn't make the letters work.

I do normally avoid Hobbits, because the family trees are so big I can't remember who's on them! But in this case, I had quite a tight theme, so had to make do where I could. (I don't think anyone's guessed the theme yet, though I have a suspicion several people have come up with a looser variant.)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Less known siblings of more major characters?

[Huinesoron]

Less known siblings of more major characters?

Close, but not quite precise enough. ^_^

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is it siblings of people with a title?

Pearl is sister to a Thain.
Daisy is sister to a Mayor.
Elrohir is brother to a Queen.
Angrod is I think brother to the Lady of Lothlorien? (And Finrod Felagund).
Lalaith is sister to ... the Black Sword?

[Galadriel55]

Lalaith is sister to ... the Black Sword?

...the man with the most titles and alter-egos? ;)

[Huinesoron]

Is it siblings of people with a title?

That... would actually fit the two remaining clues too, but no. :) The specifics are more about the person in the clue than their illustrious siblings - or, I suppose, about them both.

hS

[Formendacil]

Each of these are middle children (i.e. neither the eldest nor the youngest?)

[Huinesoron]

Either Elladan or Elrohir must be the eldest, so no. But you're tantalisingly close. :)

(And in case the formatting has been hiding it - 6 and 7 still need answering! Tweaking said formatting now.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

All ELDER siblings of a famous or titled person?

[Urwen]

All ELDER siblings of a famous or titled person?


Pretty sure my namesake was the younger sibling, not an older one. ;)

[Huinesoron]

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. LALAITH - Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. PEARL - Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. ANGROD - Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. DAISY - Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. A - In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. N - A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

THEME: Characters overshadowed by their younger siblings

While Lalaith is definitely younger than Turin, she's still older than Nienor, who is much more famous than her. :)

Two to go!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, I meant older, not oldest (although I did mention Turin in an earlier post).

Was I right with the theme, though? You didn't say.

[Huinesoron]

Yes, I meant older, not oldest (although I did mention Turin in an earlier post).

Was I right with the theme, though? You didn't say.

I phrased it 'overshadowed by their younger siblings', but 'elder siblings of famous person' was correct, yes. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

6. A possible way to be killed by fire (although you only say it *claimed their fire,* not that it categorically killed them), would be in the Dagor Bragollach.

Angrod, already guessed, was killed in the Battle of Sudden Flame, but so was his brother AEGNOR, also an elder brother of Galadriel and Finrod Felagund, I think.

Water ... I want to say AQUA, but I don't think any Tolkien names have that. There's ValAQUentA, and is there CAlAQUendi? But no character name that I can think of.

[Huinesoron]

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. LALAITH - Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. PEARL - Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. ANGROD - Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. DAISY - Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. AEGNOR - In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. N - A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

THEME: Characters overshadowed by their younger siblings

Aegnor is correct, as elder brother of Galadriel (he's younger than Finrod). His name means 'fell fire', and indeed, the Sudden Flame was what killed him.

The patience/water reference is to his mortal beloved, Andreth (which means 'Patience'), who he apparently met by Tarn Aeluin in Dorthonion (in fact, he fell in love with her after he saw her reflection).

One to go!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

That's a very special clue ... water as a mirror, and incorporating his love for Andreth as well as his death. Love it! :)

SILMARIEN was a foremother of kings, although not actually a queen.

It's debatable whether she was in the end less famous than her younger brother, though, who took the crown because a woman could not inherit it at that point.

Am I right to be looking for a female character *ending* in N, as it says she runs back?

[Huinesoron]

1. ELROHIR - The rider is but half what he is named; he must go south with the company.
2. LALAITH - Twice following, so i'th'name of laughter is the fiery maid transformed.
3. PEARL - Sister to one of our own, she comes from the shore: send her back.
4. ANGROD - Enraged with the staff or wrathful and strange? Either way, two must fall before the lord in the north.
5. DAISY - Low riddling is yet above the half-wise.
6. AEGNOR - In water he found patience, yet fire claimed his fire in the end.
7. SILMARIEN - A legendary maid at the window tumbles back, and the missing queen appears.

THEME: Characters overshadowed by their younger siblings

And with Silmarien, that's a wrap! As you say, Pervinca, Tar-Meneldur took the sceptre instead of his older sister; Meneldur's son Aldarion changed the law to allow a woman to inherit the throne. Silmarien therefore missed out by only a couple of generations on being the first Ruling Queen. (It's a bit of a fiddle, but she was certainly overshadowed by her brother the king in her lifetime, even if in the end she became more important.)

The cryptic clue was windowSILL + Maid MARIAN; I tried, I tried...

Over to you, Pervinca!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Good one - I simply could not think of a legendary maid. I should have thought of folk heroes first and then whether they had any female associates. ;)

Here's the next one. Enjoy!

1. Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
2. Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
3. Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
4. Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
5. He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
6. Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
7. Winding roads will lead to him.

[Galadriel55]

I took the maid at the window to be one element. Found a couple well known paintings that could do the job, but none that fit. :p


7. Sador?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
2. Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
3. Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
4. Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
5. He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
6. Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

[Huinesoron]

Presumably #6 is not 'Roman' reversed, unless Tolkien was secretly a creator of classic comic-book antiheroes.

For #5, I find that both Andwise Roper and Rowlie Appledore lack only an A to contain 'paw adorer', but that's not amazingly helpful, and their leftover letters are nonsense.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Presumably #6 is not 'Roman' reversed, unless Tolkien was secretly a creator of classic comic-book antiheroes.

For #5, I find that both Andwise Roper and Rowlie Appledore lack only an A to contain 'paw adorer', but that's not amazingly helpful, and their leftover letters are nonsense.

hS



It's possible that you're younger than me and didn't get the musical reference in 'tiger feet.'

Not Roman but very very close for one of the elements. Not the person, but the ....

(Not bad typing considering I did it at the bus stop).

[Galadriel55]

3. EOL? Looked it up and Mr. Blue Sky is a song by Electric Light Orchestra, ELO.

[Pervinca Took]

EOL is *nearly* right - it's lacking one further element that is indicated in the clue.

[Urwen]

Eorl? Eol + R for right?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
2. Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
4. Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
5. He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
6. Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

[Nerwen]

Hello, everyone! Sorry to disappear for so long! You all missed me, right?:Merisu:

Could #5 be EOMUND? ("Eon" + "Mud", the latter being a 70s band who had a song called "Tiger Feet").

[Pervinca Took]

1. Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
2. Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
4. Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
EOMUND: He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
6. Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

O Nerwen man-maiden, who gave us 'enamel tram' for Meneltarma. What praise could I say more? And à propos of 'enamel tram,' how about trying number 6?

[Huinesoron]

Hey, Nerwen! ^_^ Good to see you.

For #6... well, EOMER is Rome plus an extra E, but I don't know how to use that without going all northern: eeeee, Rome, lad.

Interesting that #2 says 'king's son' rather than 'king'. There's not many princes who aren't better known as kings, so I'd look either for a non-heir, or a very late character, such as Eldarion or Legolas. Can't make either of them fit, though.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

He *was* an heir. His *father* tearfully calls him 'King's son!'

Try *starting* with Rome .

[Formendacil]

He *was* an heir. His *father* tearfully calls him 'King's son!'

Try *starting* with Rome .

I'm picking up an Eldacar son of Romendacil vibe here... but i might just be oversensitive to all things-dacil.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Not Eldcar.

'Starting with Rome' refers to clue 6.

[Nerwen]

#2 is ELENDUR (containing "led", "run" and "rue"). Isildur calls him "King's son" at their final parting at the Gladden Fields.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
ELENDUR: Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
4. Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
EOMUND: He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
6. Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

2 is indeed ELENDUR.

BUT.

It's LEND for 'advance,' then the word RUE 'runs back' and completely 'swallows' (surrounds) the 'lend.'

ELENDUR: Ciryon is dead and Aratan is dying. [You must escape with the Ring, and take it to Rivendell.]

ISILDUR: King's son! [In great sorrow he obeys him, and leaves Elendur, who showed promise of becoming such a great king, to die too.]

I believe Elendur was very like Elendil.

[Pervinca Took]

Perhaps I should say that the password is a bit naughty.

Not a 'tin bras' sort of naughty.

But in a 'use of slang' sense.

[Nerwen]

1. Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
ELENDUR: Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
4. Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
EOMUND: He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
6. Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

2 is indeed ELENDUR.

BUT.

It's LEND for 'advance,' then the word RUE 'runs back' and completely 'swallows' (surrounds) the 'lend.'

ELENDUR: Ciryon is dead and Aratan is dying. [You must escape with the Ring, and take it to Rivendell.]

ISILDUR: King's son! [In great sorrow he obeys him, and leaves Elendur, who showed promise of becoming such a great king, to die too.]

I believe Elendur was very like Elendil.
I see, that's more elegant than the way I had it- I was working back from the quote.

Perhaps I should say that the password is a bit naughty.

Not a 'tin bras' sort of naughty.

But in a 'use of slang' sense.
And this slang refers to a common factor? I wonder what that could be...

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, the slang term refers to a factor common to all the answers.

[Huinesoron]

Is the theme something like unnatural deaths? Other than Sador they all died in battle, and Sador... well, yeah.

For 6, Romendacil I did die in battle... but I can't see how he fits the clue other than 'starts with Rome'.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
ELENDUR: Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
4. Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
EOMUND: He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
ROMENDACIL : Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

Turn around ROMENDACIL and get CLAD IN ROME.

Wrong theme. Or, at least, the theme I chose is much, much more general than that. ;)

[Nerwen]

Is it Rómendacil I or II? And does that matter?

[Pervinca Took]

It doesn't matter at all which Romendacil it is.

The theme is very, very broad. :D

Don't forget how *many* themes we've already had. Sometimes you have to be a bit naughty to find a new one.

[Huinesoron]

... the password isn't 'GEEZERS', is it?

Of course, that would require a man's name beginning with Z, which... there don't appear to be any! Zimraphel and Zamin are both Numenorean women, and Zimrahin is Marachian. What a weird little quirk.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

G: Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
ELENDUR: Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
Z: Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
EOMUND: He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
ROMENDACIL : Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

There is one, hS ... you just have to look at the first sentence of the clue ....

(I did make sure all the answers were men, not just males. Not sure an elf would take kindly to being called a geezer. :D) (Don't think it would really suit a hobbit, either).

[Urwen]

Zimrathon?

[Pervinca Took]

G: Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
ELENDUR: Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
ZIMRATHON: Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
EOMUND: He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
ROMENDACIL : Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

Indeed!

ZIT plus HARM 'all over the place' plus ON for over, and we don't hear the AR- prefix (which would sound the same as 'Ah.'

Well done all!

And over to hS.

[Urwen]

No, the 'G' one isn't solved yet.

[Nerwen]

Huh. I thought "geezer" only meant "old man.

But anyway, I think Urwen must be right, and that the first part of the clue is saying to drop the royal signifier "Ar" in Ar-Zimrathôn. Don't get the rest, though.

Edit: Ninja'd.

[Pervinca Took]

SORRY!

I had forgotten the G clue.

But here is Tiger Feet (and some really bad dancing) for anyone who doesn't know the song):

https://youtu.be/EQfidTOTsLo

No, 'geezer' is just British slang for 'man, ' as I thought. (Just checked).

Now use a little children's slang to get the G clue.

[Nerwen]

Two "Gs", I presume.

...Oh, it's GAMLING, isn't it? ("Mail" + "N")

[Pervinca Took]

GAMLING: Send around to the north for him. Inside a horse!
ELENDUR: Advance, but run back, swallowing with regret? King’s son!
EORL: Mr Blue Sky’s origins are his too, right? What spin!
ZIMRATHON: Ah, we don’t hear this! Spot damage all over the place before it’s over for him.
EOMUND: He might spend an age mingling with lovers of tiger feet! Well, a little.
ROMENDACIL : Turn this one around and you’d think he’d be wearing a toga!
SADOR: Winding roads will lead to him.

Perfectly correct, Nerwen!

And *now* it's over to Huinesoron.

[Huinesoron]

I actually looked for Kings of Numenor with a Z... I must have skipped that one! Nice password.

A short one:

1. If among the boughs of victory I stood, still I would die with my brother.
2. A ship of rock am I, buried far north of the ship of foam.
3. The eldest of the younger kings raised me up, and named me for myself and my people.
4. When they go out, I remain: I am more caustic than vile.
5. Freed from bonds of iron, I say: Hell, the same twist?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could 3 be Elfstone/Estel, because Elrond probably would be a king, if there were enough elves left in Middle-earth?

[Huinesoron]

It is not, but there are elves involved in the answer. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Tuor?

[Huinesoron]

Not Tuor either. (Who would the 'eldest of the younger kings' be in that case?)

hS

[Urwen]

Beor?

[Pervinca Took]

I actually looked for Kings of Numenor with a Z... I must have skipped that one! Nice password.

hS

Ar-Zimrathon might not have had zits, of course, but after 'Like Wendy' and 'Tin Bras' I feel I have a reputation to maintain. Look for more of that. :p

Arwen was named Undomiel for her people. If Elrond is acceptable as a younger king. (After all, you can be raised by your biological father as well).

But I think TURIN is perhaps more likely.

[Pervinca Took]

I wonder if 5 is something to do with Angainor or Tilkal.

[Huinesoron]

I'm afraid none of the guesses so far are even particularly close.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

5. Maedhros?

'Same' twisted gives some of the elements, and he was freed from the iron shackle.

And hell, but 'ro' puts some of 'iron' back in?

Or puts some of ORE back in?

[Huinesoron]

'The same' twisted gives some of the elements, and he was freed from the iron shackle.

Not Maedhros, but you have the right approach here. Might want to twist a near-synonym, though.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I did. But can you believe that IMLARIS, synonym of 'similar,' does not exist?

[Huinesoron]

I did. But can you believe that IMLARIS, synonym of 'similar,' does not exist?

Shocking. Maybe you could scour the adjacent words of the clue for an extra letter to slip in there.

(It's not D, though.)

hS

[Nerwen]

If it's "L", that would make the answer SILMARIL.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, of course. The sound of 'ell. 'Cos he says it.

Confusing, because hS doesn't usually put the 'sounds like' indicator in. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

4. PHIAL.

Not vile (although vial means phial - Juliet drinks potion from one).

Is Phosphorous caustic?

'A light when all other lights go out.'

Is the password PROPS?

(Or am I thinking props because I loved the stage version of LOTR so much?)

[Nerwen]

4. PHIAL.

Not vile (although vial means phial - Juliet drinks potion from one).

Is Phosphorous caustic?

'A light when all other lights go out.'

Is the password PROPS?

(Or am I thinking props because I loved the stage version of LOTR so much?)

The glowing form of phosphorus is nasty stuff. And I think you might be right about the password.

However, still with the assumption that the "speakers" in the clues are really objects-

the CARROCK is a similar geological formation to the more southerly Cair Andros, or "Ship of Long Foam". Could #3 be that?

[Huinesoron]

Phew - lots to get through here!

If it's "L", that would make the answer SILMARIL.

and

4. PHIAL.

are correct, but

Is the password PROPS?

and

the CARROCK is a similar geological formation to the more southerly Cair Andros, or "Ship of Long Foam". Could #3 be that?

are not. So:

1. If among the boughs of victory I stood, still I would die with my brother.
2. A ship of rock am I, buried far north of the ship of foam.
3. The eldest of the younger kings raised me up, and named me for myself and my people.
4. PHIAL - When they go out, I remain: I am more caustic than vile.
5. SILMARIL - Freed from bonds of iron, I say: Hell, the same twist?

Ah, of course. The sound of 'ell. 'Cos he says it.

Confusing becausd hS doesn't usually put the 'sounds like' indicator in. ;)

I'm a tricksy one. ^_^ 'Bonds of iron' is the iron crown, of course.

Not vile (although vial means phial - Juliet drinks potion from one).

Is Phosphorous caustic?

'A light when all other lights go out.'

The glowing form of phosphorus is nasty stuff.

Phosphorous may well be caustic, but I was thinking of pH, which tells you how acidic or basic/alkaline/caustic something is. The 'all other lights go out' connection is correct.

However, still with the assumption that the "speakers" in the clues are really objects-

the CARROCK is a similar geological formation to the more southerly Cair Andros, or "Ship of Long Foam". Could #3 be that?

That seems a reasonable assumption, and Cair Andros is indeed the Ship of Foam. But you'll need to drop out of Elvish to find the Ship of Rock.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I thought PH after posting. ;)

Impressed with Nerwen's foamy ship - I just thought it was Vingilot/Foamflower.

Going to guess SHIPS for the password, although it doesn't seem to encompass the 'things.' (Because I'm baffled as to what else it could be!)

[Pervinca Took]

Oh ... LAMPS?

Would 1 be LAURELIN? Oh! Laurel is a prize for victory and poetic achievement.

So then is 3 moon or moon tower - something to do with Isildur - or ... MINAS ITHIL? Did it carry a lamp?

[Pervinca Took]

2. ARKENSTONE (ark in stone) - buried on the breast of Thorin Oakenshield. Is Erebor more northerly than Cair Andros?

P.S. I did think of Silmaril, honest! I was just for some reason convinced at first that the answer was a person.

[Nerwen]

2. ARKENSTONE (ark in stone) - buried on the breast of Thorin Oakenshield. Is Erebor more northerly than Cair Andros?
Yes- Cair Andros is in Gondor (between Anórien and Ithilien), but the two are roughly in line.

Minas Ithil is described as having had "imprisoned moonlight welling through the marble walls", so you might consider it one big lamp, I suppose.

[Huinesoron]

Lots of correct answers, which leave us at:

1. LAURELIN - If among the boughs of victory I stood, still I would die with my brother.
2. ARKENSTONE - A ship of rock am I, buried far north of the ship of foam.
3. M - The eldest of the younger kings raised me up, and named me for myself and my people.
4. PHIAL - When they go out, I remain: I am more caustic than vile.
5. SILMARIL - Freed from bonds of iron, I say: Hell, the same twist?

Arkenstone and Laurelin for the reasons mentioned, and Pervinca got the password (it's lamps as in the Two Lamps). But Minas Ithil is wrong, as are Moon, Moon Tower, and Minas Morgul. They'd all fit the theme, actually, but I went for a somewhat more obscure answer.

There's actually nothing cryptic about 3 - it's an accurate description of events.

hS

[Urwen]

Minas Anor?

[Huinesoron]

Minas Anor?

Nope. You're way too late in the timeline.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Min-Rimmon, one of the oldest beacons?

[Huinesoron]

Min-Rimmon, one of the oldest beacons?

Much older than that. Ages older.

hS

[Urwen]

Marach, son of Malach, son of Marhach?

[Huinesoron]

Older.

Reposting onto the new page, and also giving the theme, since people basically got it:

1. LAURELIN - If among the boughs of victory I stood, still I would die with my brother.
2. ARKENSTONE - A ship of rock am I, buried far north of the ship of foam.
3. M - The eldest of the younger kings raised me up, and named me for myself and my people.
4. PHIAL - When they go out, I remain: I am more caustic than vile.
5. SILMARIL - Freed from bonds of iron, I say: Hell, the same twist?

Theme: Light sources

hS

[Urwen]

Menel?

[Huinesoron]

Menel?

All right, not quite that old.

But I think older than any other guess made, specifically including the Moon.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ormal, using the 3rd letter?

[Huinesoron]

The Lamps are collectively the password, so no.

It uses the first letter, and is younger than the Lamps.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

There are a few alternative names for Laurelin, and two of them begin with M. But am I right in assuming we need to look for another source of light, not another name for one we already have?

I know ... MEWLIPS' CANDLE! That's a light source! :D

'With single sickly candle lit
And there they count their gold.

Oh damn ... too late. The hobbit songs are Third and early Fourth Age. :D

[Huinesoron]

There are a few alternative names for Laurelin, and two of them begin with M. But am I right in assuming we need to look for another source of light, not another name for one we already have?

Yes - a completely different source of light, though I believe you could see Laurelin from it.

I know ... MEWLIPS' CANDLE! That's a light source! :D

'With single sickly candle lit
And there they count their gold.

Oh damn ... too late. The hobbit songs are Third and early Fourth Age. :D

Ah, so you don't know the story of how Nessa and Vana, inspired by Aule's dwarves, sang a bunch of silly songs to create their own short, playful race...? ;)

hS

[Urwen]

Wait, Nessa and Vana created Hobbits?

[Nerwen]

Wait, Nessa and Vana created Hobbits?
I thought everyone knew that.

It's in the "History of Middle-earth"- forgot which volume.

[Huinesoron]

Wait, Nessa and Vana created Hobbits?

You'll find the whole thing in The History of Middle-earth XIV: The Weirdest Bits. It's just after the rewritten Moria scene where the Balrog is said to have 'wings fourfold, like the greatest dragonfly ever seen', and right before the 'Description of the Isle of Tolfalas', with the list of all 27 unicorn princesses who ruled there. :D

hS

[Urwen]

Oh, I am gonna have so much fun with that one.

[Pervinca Took]

I like the idea of a Dragonfly Balrog. Especially a clumsy one who couldn't control his wings.

Thinking about it, we're more or less told how all the speaking peoples *except* hobbits came into being. (Although I don't recall reading how the race of men began, either).

The star MORWINYON?

[Urwen]

I like the idea of a Dragonfly Balrog. Especially a clumsy one who couldn't control his wings.

Thinking about it, we're more or less told how all the speaking peoples *except* hobbits came into being. (Although I don't recall reading how the race of men began, either).

The star MORWINYON?


Men and Elves were both sung into existence by Iluvatar, I believe.

[Huinesoron]

I like the idea of a Dragonfly Balrog. Especially a clumsy one who couldn't control his wings.

Well, Tolkien never said its shadow only had TWO wings... ;)

Thinking about it, we're more or less told how all the speaking peoples *except* hobbits came into being. (Although I don't recall reading how the race of men began, either).

Men and Elves were both sung into existence by Iluvatar, I believe.

Yah that. Gilfanon's Tale in BoLT would have gone into detail on the awakening of Men, but Tolkien never finished it.

Hobbits are said, I think, to be derived Men, like Petty-dwarves are from dwarves. Though I can't help entertaining the notion that they're actually cross-breed with dwarves, or perhaps with the Druedain/Woses. (Whether we have to take the rumours of Fallohide elvish ancestry as canon is an exciting question!)

IThe star MORWINYON?

Oh, yeah, password. :D No, not Morwinyon; younger than that. The answer was made by elves, and the clue, with the king and name stuff, still applies.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Mindon Eldalieva, raised by Ingwe for the Eldar?

[Huinesoron]

1. LAURELIN - If among the boughs of victory I stood, still I would die with my brother.
2. ARKENSTONE - A ship of rock am I, buried far north of the ship of foam.
3. MINDON ELDALIEVA - The eldest of the younger kings raised me up, and named me for myself and my people.
4. PHIAL - When they go out, I remain: I am more caustic than vile.
5. SILMARIL - Freed from bonds of iron, I say: Hell, the same twist?

Theme: Light sources

And there it is! I didn't realise the Mindon was so obscure... sorry! Ingwe is the first of the Elvenkings, who are younger in comparison to Manwe the Elder King. And the name means 'tower of the elves' - hence, 'for myself and my people'.

It had a lamp/beacon on top of it, though what the purpose was when the Trees were alive I'm not sure.

Over to you, Pervinca!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

'Lamps' really is a beautiful theme. A lovely idea for a password.

'It had a lamp/beacon on top of it, though what the purpose was when the Trees were alive I'm not sure.'

And what would power it? Would it just reflect the light of Laurelin and Telperion, I wonder? You said they could probably see Laurelin by it, but why would they need to, since Laurelin provided its own light?

Anyway:

1, Ioreth, two liquids and I make a queenly combination.
2. ‘Heard you, little bird!’ (She appears, with minimal disturbance).
3. Emaciated Stoor begins to resemble a highborn elf.
4. He’s initially a wee lad, without direction.
5. Edge around and greet him, with another little spin.
6. Loner? In a roundabout way, but not by choice. (A daddy, though, initially).
7. New bra loses plosive, but she appears with it back to front!

[Urwen]

1. Lothiriel?
7. Arwen?

[Pervinca Took]

LOTHIRIEL: Ioreth, two liquids and I make a queenly combination.
2. ‘Heard you, little bird!’ (She appears, with minimal disturbance).
3. Emaciated Stoor begins to resemble a highborn elf.
4. He’s initially a wee lad, without direction.
5. Edge around and greet him, with another little spin.
6. Loner? In a roundabout way, but not by choice. (A daddy, though, initially).
NEWRA: New bra loses plosive, but she appears with it back to front!

[Urwen]

I have gathered potential passwords, but I need some more letters to narrow it down more.....but I am drawing a blank on the rest.....

[Urwen]

4. Elwe?

[Pervinca Took]

I usually play around with my password ideas and see if any of the initials seem likely for the remaining answers.

[Pervinca Took]

Not Elwe.

[Urwen]

Judging by the answers so far, Luthien for password?

[Pervinca Took]

Correct!