Password

[Urwen]

2 is myself (U+Wren)

[Huinesoron]

And then is #3 the emaciated Stoor THIN GOL(lum)?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

LOTHIRIEL: Ioreth, two liquids and I make a queenly combination.
URWEN: ‘Heard you, little bird!’ (She appears, with minimal disturbance).
THINGOL: Emaciated Stoor begins to resemble a highborn elf.
H: He’s initially a wee lad, without direction.
I: Edge around and greet him, with another little spin.
E: Loner? In a roundabout way, but not by choice. (A daddy, though, initially).
NEWRA: New bra loses plosive, but she appears with it back to front!

Correct ... well done, Urwen and hS.

[Urwen]

5. Imrahil?

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, but please say why.

[Urwen]

Rim + hi + a + l

[Pervinca Took]

LOTHIRIEL: Ioreth, two liquids and I make a queenly combination.
URWEN: ‘Heard you, little bird!’ (She appears, with minimal disturbance).
THINGOL: Emaciated Stoor begins to resemble a highborn elf.
H: He’s initially a wee lad, without direction.
IMRAHIL: Edge around and greet him, with another little spin.
E: Loner? In a roundabout way, but not by choice. (A daddy, though, initially).
NEWRA: New bra loses plosive, but she appears with it back to front!

Close! It's RIM + HAIL.

[Urwen]

Well, the next turn is mine, so I leave the last two to you fine folks.

[Huinesoron]

H: I'm looking over various people beginning with 'Hal'; there's half a dozen with the letters for 'lad', but once you remove the starting H (for 'he's initially'), none of them provide any useful leftover letters. If you'd mentioned Welsh bread or Arabia, I'd love HALBARAD, but... you didn't. ;)

E: I'm gonna throw out the usual guess for EOMER. His name starts with his father's first few letters, and by being kicked out of Meduseld by Grima, he became an involuntary loner, travelling around about the countryside.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Both wrong, I'm afraid.

There's a word in the H clue requiring a synonym you may not have considered. :D

(And there's a reason for that emoticon). ;)

[Urwen]

Halmir (Mi as the first half of mini, and R for direction?)
Or Haldan?

[Pervinca Took]

No.

[Urwen]

Haldad?

[Huinesoron]

Ah. I think the theme is FATHERS AND DAUGHTERS, which makes the two missing names:

HURIN - okay, yes, initial H + it's 'urine' without the E for east = direction. Cheeky blighter.

and

ELROND - acronym for 'loner' + D for daddy.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

LOTHIRIEL: Ioreth, two liquids and I make a queenly combination.
URWEN: ‘Heard you, little bird!’ (She appears, with minimal disturbance).
THINGOL: Emaciated Stoor begins to resemble a highborn elf.
HURIN: He’s initially a wee lad, without direction.
IMRAHIL: Edge around and greet him, with another little spin.
ELROND: Loner? In a roundabout way, but not by choice. (A daddy, though, initially).
NEWRA: New bra loses plosive, but she appears with it back to front!

THEME: FATHERS & DAUGHTERS

Acronym? Anagram of LONER plus the D (initial) of 'daddy.'

Well done all, and over to Urwen!

[Huinesoron]

Acronym, anagram, acrostic, assonance... one of those sneaky beggars.

hS

[Urwen]

Here, you can have another.



1. A celestial body gains direction, and the lesser ones appear
2. He shares his name with an ancient mythical kingdom, muddled up a bit
3. A confused animal, but also the King's brother
4. He is glum and full of courage
5. Direction precedes a confused god for a keeper
6. A roman numeral precedes a baked good for him
7. Reverse this strong metal, and he'll appear


Finding these was hard.

[Huinesoron]

#7 must be either NORI (reverse of iron)... or something tricksy. ^_^

(Shock horror, the chemist guesses a chemical element...)

hS

[Urwen]

1. A celestial body gains direction, and the lesser ones appear
2. He shares his name with an ancient mythical kingdom, muddled up a bit
3. A confused animal, but also the King's brother
4. He is glum and full of courage
5. Direction precedes a confused god for a keeper
6. A roman numeral precedes a baked good for him
NORI: Reverse this strong metal, and he'll appear

[Pervinca Took]

6. IBUN - I plus BUN?

[Urwen]

1. A celestial body gains direction, and the lesser ones appear
2. He shares his name with an ancient mythical kingdom, muddled up a bit
3. A confused animal, but also the King's brother
4. He is glum and full of courage
5. Direction precedes a confused god for a keeper
IBUN: A roman numeral precedes a baked good for him
NORI: Reverse this strong metal, and he'll appear

[Pervinca Took]

Hmm. LONI is 'lion' confused, but I don't think he's a king's brother.

And I feel 5 should be THRAIN, as I don't know of any other dwarven ring-keepers, but it doesn't start with a direction. Is Rani a god(dess)?

[Pervinca Took]

Oh, is 5 THROR?

Thor + R, and all of it confused.

[Urwen]

None correct, though it is a Norse god.


Also, Thorin has six letters, while the password has 7 letters.


Though maybe using dwarves alone for both the clues and the password would have been a better idea. I'll remember it in the distant future.

[Pervinca Took]

I realised my mistake and deleted my password guess, just before your post.

[Galadriel55]

4. Grimbold?

[Pervinca Took]

Maeglin for the password?

[Urwen]

M: A celestial body gains direction, and the lesser ones appear
A: He shares his name with an ancient mythical kingdom, muddled up a bit
E: A confused animal, but also the King's brother
GRIMBOLD: He is glum and full of courage
L: Direction precedes a confused god for a keeper
IBUN: A roman numeral precedes a baked good for him
NORI: Reverse this strong metal, and he'll appear


Incidentally, the animal from clue 4 has a certain connection to the password, as it is.

[Pervinca Took]

L = LINDO, keeper of the Cottage Of Lost Play.

I had a feeling the god was Odin.

[Pervinca Took]

E = ELMO? (Mole).

Oh ... and a mole can be a spy ....

[Urwen]

M: A celestial body gains direction, and the lesser ones appear
A: He shares his name with an ancient mythical kingdom, muddled up a bit
ELMO: A confused animal, but also the King's brother
GRIMBOLD: He is glum and full of courage
LINDO: Direction precedes a confused god for a keeper
IBUN: A roman numeral precedes a baked good for him
NORI: Reverse this strong metal, and he'll appear


E = ELMO? (Mole).

Oh ... and a mole can be a spy ....


I believe that it was symbolic, yea.

[Huinesoron]

M... 'A Mars' + E for east gives MEARAS, who are kelvar rather than incarnates, and so lesser.

hS

[Urwen]

It works, but not exactly what I had in mind.

[Huinesoron]

Well... Maia is one of the Pleiades, add Right, you get MAIAR, the lesser Ainur?

hS

[Urwen]

MAIAR: A celestial body gains direction, and the lesser ones appear
A: He shares his name with an ancient mythical kingdom, muddled up a bit
ELMO: A confused animal, but also the King's brother
GRIMBOLD: He is glum and full of courage
LINDO: Direction precedes a confused god for a keeper
IBUN: A roman numeral precedes a baked good for him
NORI: Reverse this strong metal, and he'll appear

[Huinesoron]

Okay, mythical kingdoms beginning with A... Atlantis, Avalon, Albion. I can get partial matches for some of those, but none that are as firm as 'shares a name'.

...

I don't suppose you think Aragon was mythical, do you? Because that's only one letter from ARAGORN.

...

From a Legendarium perspective, Artanor (the old name for Doriath) might be considered a mythical kingdom. But... there are no direct anagrams of Artanor in my lists. :-/

hS

[Urwen]

Okay, mythical kingdoms beginning with A... Albion.


That's the one, also you're forgetting the second part of the clue.

[Huinesoron]

That's the one, also you're forgetting the second part of the clue.

... surely it can't be ALBOIN, semi-protagonist of The Lost Road?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, I thought Maiar was the answer, but couldn't find the right heavenly body. I even tried Mir, the space station! I didn't know there was a star called Maia. Learning stuff! :)

Is there a theme, Urwen?

[Urwen]

MAIAR: A celestial body gains direction, and the lesser ones appear
ALBOIN: He shares his name with an ancient mythical kingdom, muddled up a bit
ELMO: A confused animal, but also the King's brother
GRIMBOLD: He is glum and full of courage
LINDO: Direction precedes a confused god for a keeper
IBUN: A roman numeral precedes a baked good for him
NORI: Reverse this strong metal, and he'll appear


Ah, I thought Maiar was the answer, but couldn't find the right heavenly body. I even tried Mir, the space station! I didn't know there was a star called Maia. Learning stuff! :)

Is there a theme, Urwen?


1. Neither did I, until two days ago.
2. No, there wasn't a theme.
3. In honor of solve, Imma post a verse of a song:
Born in grief, raised in hate
Helpless to defy his fate
Let him run, let him live
But do not forget what we cannot forgive.


Over to you.

[Pervinca Took]

Very apt!

Great puzzle, Urwen. :)

Here's the next one:

1. A tiny amount of wrinkles are found here.
2. Move vehicle here (might need a push?)
3. It’s not easy here – it requires courage.
4. Terrifying place.
5. Yearn, but not for a high thing (or place).
6. Dressmaking tool gets an award here?

[Huinesoron]

Okay... is #4 GORGOROTH, which translates as 'place of horror'?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

No. :D

Correct logic, but too sophisticated.

[Huinesoron]

No. :D

Correct logic, but too sophisticated.

Then is it the Ered Gorgoroth, which Tolkien explicitly names the Mountains of Terror?

Is #3 HARDBOTTLE, home of the Bracegirdles of Northfarthing? Hard = not easy, bottle = courage (in... actually I honestly couldn't put it in a sentence, but I know it does).

... oh, wait.

2. BUDGEFORD, where you budge your Ford Fiesta (after, presumably, it gets stuck in the ford). It's close to the Brandywine Bridge.

4. SCARY is over in the Eastfarthing.

5. LONGBOTTOM is where you long for something at the bottom.

1. (jumping back) could be WHITFURROWS, as in 'not a whit' and furrowed brows.

And 6. must be PINCUP, a trophy for tacks.

And a bit of poking around reveals that the password might be I DRANN, 'the Shire' in Sindarin.

hS

PS: If these are all right... sorry. :-/ 'Hardbottle' got me onto Shire places, 'Scary' fixed me there, and there aren't all that many of them to go around. ~hS

[Galadriel55]

Then is it the Ered Gorgoroth, which Tolkien explicitly names the Mountains of Terror?

Is #3 HARDBOTTLE, home of the Bracegirdles of Northfarthing? Hard = not easy, bottle = courage (in... actually I honestly couldn't put it in a sentence, but I know it does).

... oh, wait.

2. BUDGEFORD, where you budge your Ford Fiesta (after, presumably, it gets stuck in the ford). It's close to the Brandywine Bridge.

4. SCARY is over in the Eastfarthing.

5. LONGBOTTOM is where you long for something at the bottom.

1. (jumping back) could be WHITFURROWS, as in 'not a whit' and furrowed brows.

And 6. must be PINCUP, a trophy for tacks.

And a bit of poking around reveals that the password might be I DRANN, 'the Shire' in Sindarin.

hS

PS: If these are all right... sorry. :-/ 'Hardbottle' got me onto Shire places, 'Scary' fixed me there, and there aren't all that many of them to go around. ~hS

A whole password in a single post. This... wow. This must be a record. :D

Are you looking for the "liquid courage" phrase for the stuff in the bottle?

[Huinesoron]

A whole password in a single post. This... wow. This must be a record. :D

I know, I knooooow... :( I feel bad. At least I left it a couple of days, though?

Are you looking for the "liquid courage" phrase for the stuff in the bottle?

That's probably where it came from, but by checking Wiktionary, I think the sense I'm thinking of is "lost your bottle" - as in, "I was going to join 13 dwarves on an adventure, but I lost my bottle and hid in the pantry until they left."

hS

[Galadriel55]

I know, I knooooow... :( I feel bad. At least I left it a couple of days, though?

Hey, that was a compliment! And yeah, I had the chance to stare at it several times, without any lightbulbs. :D

[Pervinca Took]

WHITFURROWS: Tiny amount of wrinkles are found here.
BUDGEFORD: Move vehicle here (might need a push?)
HARDBOTTLE: It’s not easy here – it requires courage.
SCARY: Terrifying place.
LONGBOTTOM: Yearn, but not for a high thing (or place).
PINCUP: Dressmaking tool gets an award here?

THEME: PLACES IN THE SHIRE.

PASSWORD: 'I'DRANN' (Sindarin for 'The Shire.')

Well, what can I say? ;)

Don't feel you need to hold back when you know the answer.

I stumbled across the Sindarin word 'I'Drann' and decided it might be quite easy to make a Shire password puzzle with it. I was going to post no letters highlighted and see if you could work out where the password was. ;)

Whilst the names *are* all on the same map, I still say it was jolly well done. (The solving, I mean!)

I thought the first to fall would be 'Longbottom,' though!

Over to Huey, and well-deserved!

(P.S. The red ones are all third letters, and should line up perfectly, but Word (and the threads) have other ideas).

[Huinesoron]

Don't feel you need to hold back when you know the answer.

I'll take that under advisement. >: D

I stumbled across the Sindarin word 'I'Drann' and decided it might be quite easy to make a Shire password puzzle with it. I was going to post no letters highlighted and see if you could work out where the password was. ;)

I'm not sure I would have if I hadn't been driving hard to get the whole thing! I've never heard the term before (I'm guessing it's from the King's Letter), and only found it after exhausting all possibilities of Shire placenames with letters from Pincup at the end.

That was an excellent password (and I'm not just saying that because of the lack of anagrams ;)). The clues were all specific enough to be sure I had the right answer, but only once I'd got the theme as well.

This one, however, I'm not nearly so confident about:

1. I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

3. Aerandir sailed with Earendil - first mentioned of his companions so maybe the second in line? But for the elements, I can only offer 'aer' (occuring twice in the heart of 'wearyhearted.')

Oh ... I can offer an anagram of 'drain' as well! :D

[Huinesoron]

3. Aerandir sailed with Earendil - first mentioned of his companions so maybe the second in line? But for the elements, I can only offer 'aer' (occuring twice in the heart of 'wearyhearted.')

You're correct that the Mariner is Earendil, but this isn't one of his sailing companions.

For the new page:

1. I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

6. Giants or stone-giants? Gandalf says he might enlist the help of a more or less decent giant to refill a chasm or something, while they are crossing the Misty Mountains en route to Erebor.

[Pervinca Took]

You're correct that the Mariner is Earendil, but this isn't one of his travelling companions

hS

Damn! And after I'd found 'drain' in Aerandir as well as 'aer.' :p

meeting of man and Eru

Manure!

Well, it's well-known that M-e both needed and had it:

AULE: Nonetheless, they will have need of wood.
YAVANNA: And manure.

How else would their lettuces grow?

[Huinesoron]

6. Giants or stone-giants? Gandalf says he might enlist the help of a more or less decent giant to refill a chasm or something, while they are crossing the Misty Mountains en route to Erebor.

Correct! I think it's to block the Goblin Gate, though I wouldn't swear to it.

1. I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

Damn! And after I'd found 'drain' in Aerandir as well as 'aer.' :p

meeting of man and Eru

Manure!

Well, it's well-known that M-e both needed and had it:

AULE: Nonetheless, they will have need of wood.
YAVANNA: And manure.

How else would their lettuces grow?

:D Love it. Not right, but love it.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

No cucumbers were there to match those of Ingwe in the Days of the Trees, for they were fertilised by the magical Dung of Araw's Kine.

I think 2 is ONODRIM, except the onion is tailless rather than headless. Is the are we / ent we saying include I'M?

I tried to find the singular of Onodrim ... would it be onod?

(Although knowing tricksy Huinesoron, it's probably a shallot or something, not 'onion' at all).

[Huinesoron]

You're very close to the right answer on multiple fronts, but it's not Onodrim or Onod (I think that is the singular, yes). Onion is neither onion nor shallot, but another synonym, or rather descriptor (and does need to be headless). You're right that there is a somewhat loose Entish connection.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

You're very close to the right answer on multiple fronts, but it's not Onodrim or Onod (I think that is the singular, yes). Onion is neither onion nor shallot, but another synonym, or rather descriptor (and does need to be headless). You're right that there is a somewhat loose Entish connection.

hS

Well, I've tried, but neither bulb nor vegetable nor allium cepa are very helpful.

Huorn or troll/olog seem the likeliest answers, but I cannot find the elements to build them from.

[Huinesoron]

Actually, one of those is extremely helpful. :D

Try putting them in the sentence.

hS

[Nerwen]

Allium, minus the first syllable and backwards = Muil, as in the Emyn Muil- but I can't account for the rest of it.

[Pervinca Took]

hS said put it in a sentence.

'The mule and I' might work if M-e had any centaurs!

And it sounds like Mjolnir, but isn't that Norse?

[Pervinca Took]

Mewlips?

[Huinesoron]

Allium, minus the first syllable and backwards = Muil, as in the Emyn Muil- but I can't account for the rest of it.

Ah, are we going back to the idea of Sam tying his rope around an elderly Entwife? :D

Allium will not help you. And to the previous post, neither Huorn nor any form of troll are correct.

The pre-semicolon part of the clue is cryptic; the latter part is... kind of straight.

hS

[Huinesoron]

hS said put it in a sentence.

'The mule and I' might work if M-e had any centaurs!

And it sounds like Mjolnir, but isn't that Norse?

I said put it in the sentence, which you've done... but not with Allium. (It's not the Mewlips, either.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Wondering if the theme is stone.

And if 5 is RAMMAS.

[Pervinca Took]

2 seems to have bits of ARGONATH, but in the wrong part of the clue (the bit hS says isn't really cryptic).

Could password be STONES?

[Pervinca Took]

'Bagme Bloma, '

Trying to put the the last bit of 'bulb' backwards ...

'or*Flowers of the Trees, is a poem written by*J.R.R. Tolkien*in*Gothic. It was published in*Songs for the Philologists. It tells of the strength of the*birch, defier of wind and lightning.[1]'

[edit]*Poem

The text reads as follows:[2]

Brûnáim baíriþ baírka bôgum*
láubans liubans liudandei,*
gilwagrôni, glitmunjandei,*
bagmê blôma, blauandei,*
fagrafahsa, liþulinþi,*
fráujinôndei fairguni.

Wôpjand windôs, wagjand lindôs,*
lûtiþ limam láikandei;*
slaíhta, raíhta, hveitarinda,*
razda rôdeiþ reirandei,*
bandwa baírhta, rûna gôda,*
þiuda meina þiuþjandei.

Andanahti milhmam neipiþ,*
liuhteiþ liuhmam laúhmuni;*
láubos liubái fliugand láusái,*
tulgus, triggwa, standandei.*
Baírka baza beidiþ bláika*
fráujinôndei faírguni.

[edit]*External links

[Huinesoron]

Wondering if the theme is stone.

And if 5 is RAMMAS.

No and no.

2 seems to have bits of ARGONATH, but in the wrong part of the clue (the bit hS says isn't really cryptic).

Could password be STONES?

And no and no.

'Bagme Bloma, '

Trying to put the the last bit of 'bulb' backwards ...

'or*Flowers of the Trees, is a poem written by*J.R.R. Tolkien*in*Gothic. It was published in*Songs for the Philologists. It tells of the strength of the*birch, defier of wind and lightning.[1]'


And I thought I was being obscure! o.O That's a fantastic guess, and you're spot on to be looking at a headless bulb... but the answer isn't in Gothic (I believe it's in Qenya [sic]), and 'backwards we fall' just means that you want the last letter of the answer rather than the first.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

ULBANDI.

I needed Tolkien Gateway to find that one, too!

[Pervinca Took]

Perhaps GIANTS for the password?

[Huinesoron]

1. G I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. A Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. N But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. T From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

Well... when you're right, you're right!

Ulbandi is either the name of Morgoth's ogress consort and the mother of Gothmog, or the Qenya term for 'wood-giants' - though they probably ent Ents, as Treebeard would never say.

... but you've still got four to go, and Ulbandi was not the most obscure.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

4. Apparently there is a giant called NAN in Lost Tales 2. Well, nans tend to be old and female, and I presume this Nan had a sword.

Also the initials of 'not a number.'

[Pervinca Took]

1. GILIM is an anagram of Gimli ... and it saves the M (3rd letter) of Gimli until last.

[Pervinca Took]

5. TARLANG - TAR is used on roads and LANG could be a short form of 'language.'

[Huinesoron]

4. Apparently there is a giant called NAN in Lost Tales 2. Well, nans tend to be old and female, and I presume this Nan had a sword.

Also the initials of 'not a number.'

1. GILIM is an anagram of Gimli ... and it saves the M (3rd letter) of Gimli until last.

Both correct, and correctly derived. They're both found in the Lay of Leithian, in Luthien's hair-lengthening song:

And all names of things
tallest and longest on earth she sings:
... Names she sought,
and sang of Glend, the sword of Nan;
of Gilim, the giant of Eruman;

Eruman = Eru + Man; I had to.

(If you want to get picky, there doesn't seem to be direct evidence that Nan is a giant - they could just be someone with a really big sword. Gilim, in contrast, is noted in the Tale of Tinuviel for the length of their neck.)

5. TARLANG - TAR is used on roads and LANG could be a short form of 'language.'

Also correct, and spot on for the cryptic half. According to - did I say obscure? - a deleted entry from Tolkien's Guide to Names, Tarlang was a giant involved in building the White Mountains. He tripped and broke his neck, and his body became part of the fabric of the mountains - hence, he both built and became them.

(I wonder now if there's any connection to Harfang, home of the Gentle Giants of Narnia?)

1. GILIM - I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. A Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. NAN - But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. TARLANG - From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

One to go! And it's far and away the most (or least?) obscure. I'll tell you know that 'second in line' means you're looking for the second letter in the name.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

And I tell you now I have no chance. All the others were on the Tolkien Gateway's 'Giants' page!

I guessed 'stone giants' from 'The Hobbit,' but then it was Tolkien Gateway to find something beginning with 'ulb.'

[Huinesoron]

And I tell you now I have no chance. All the others were on the Tolkien Gateway's 'Giants' page!

I guessed 'stone giants' from 'The Hobbit,' but then it was Tolkien Gateway to find something beginning with 'ulb.'

Ah, the risk of passwording with such a limited category.

The last one is found in a poem, I believe located in The Lays of Beleriand. The clue hints (in no particular order) at the poem, the name, and the line it's found in.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

There are the OARNI, (the water spirits), but I don't think they're giants.

Oh, and Nan's sword is called Glend.

[Huinesoron]

Not those. Oarni are... well, 'mermaids' in one translation, but for consistency with what we understand about Middle-earth, they're best thought of as proto-Maiar. Not to say they couldn't be fish-tailed women if they really wanted, but...

(I mean, they could probably be giants, too, if they really put their minds to it. But, again, but.)

So far as I can tell, this character isn't mentioned on either Tolkien Gateway or the Encyclopedia of Arda. He does have a Wikipedia article, though!

His name is actually a relatively common English word.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I looked at all the second lines in the Lays of Beleriand, and all through the glossary at the back of that volume, and found nothing but the Oarni and the name of Nan's sword.

[Huinesoron]

I looked at all the second lines in the Lays of Beleriand, and all through the glossary at the back of that volume, and found nothing but the Oarni and the name of Nan's sword.

You don't need the second line, you need the second letter in the name. I think it's the seventh line of the fragment it's in.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I know I need the 2nd letter, but you also said the clue hinted at the line number, and I could not see any number hint but 'second,' so thought it referred to both things.

Googling Glend to check I'd got the name of Nan's sword right, I found a link to a Downs thread on obscure characters. I think it mentions some giants:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18935

I might read it after rechecking the L.O.B.

[Pervinca Took]

Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted, from a fragment of the Lay of Earendel.

How can we deduce that he was a giant, though? Unless it's on a later line ... don't have time to read on now.

[Huinesoron]

Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted, from a fragment of the Lay of Earendel.

Bingo!

1. GILIM - I save a third of a dwarf for last; seek me at the meeting of man and Eru.
2. ULBANDI - Backwards we fall, the headless onion and I; are we an ogre or ent we?
3. WADE - Wearyhearted, I splash through the water with the Mariner, second in line.
4. NAN - But for my sword, you might think me an aged woman; I am not a number.
5. TARLANG - From paved road and shortened speech, I build and become white.
6. STONE GIANTS - We're tall and we rock! And some of us are more or less decent.

And thus ends what may well be the most obscure password to date. 'Wade of the Helsings, wearyhearted' is actually a deleted line from the Earendil poem; quite what he was doing there, Tolkien never said.

How can we deduce that he was a giant, though? Unless it's on a later line ... don't have time to read on now.

It's not in the poem; Wade is a primary-world mythological character, seen here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_(folklore)). There are stones at Whitby said to be the grave of a sea-giant by that name, and the article for his son Wayland confirms that the Thidrekssaga describes Wade as a giant.

I know I need the 2nd letter, but you also said the clue hinted at the line number, and I could not see any number hint but 'second,' so thought it referred to both things.

Yeah, 'wearyhearted' was the line hint, as I think you got.

Googling Glend to check I'd got the name of Nan's sword right, I found a link to a Downs thread on obscure characters. I think it mentions some giants:

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18935

I might read it after rechecking the L.O.B.

That is a fascinating thread. I think I may have to pester it back into life; I've already got a theory that 'the dirk of Nargil/the knife of the North in Nogrod smithied' looks like a reference to Angrist, and I love the world-cleaving falchion of lightning. ^_^

And so, over to you, Pervinca Took, and well-earned.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Another original theme and another great password!

I have a few ready and will post one shortly, when I'm back at my laptop.

(Looking through the Index at the back of the 'Lays of Beleriand,' I actually found that I'd written anagram marginalia in pencil ... I mean, not that I'm addicted to this thread or anything like that ....)

[Pervinca Took]

1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
4. In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
7. He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
8. See him where the puma glories in his speed.

[Galadriel55]

4. Amrod?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
7. He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
8. See him where the puma glories in his speed.

[Galadriel55]

8. Maglor


Evidently my mind is not set on anagrams :p

[Pervinca Took]

1. Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
2. Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
3. Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
5. Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
6. Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
7. He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
MAGLOR: See him where the puma glories in his speed.

[Galadriel55]

Password NERDANEL?

[Galadriel55]

2. Maedhros: Rose & Ham & D. I had a feeling Rose was involved but couldn't put the other pieces in place until I worked backwqrds from the theme (Feanorians?).

[Nerwen]

#5 isn't by any chance deriving AMRAS from the ""Mars bar" slogan: "A MARS a day helps you work, rest and play", is it?

[Nerwen]

And I believe #1 is CARANTHIR? ("Chair" + "rant").

[Pervinca Took]

CARANTHIR: Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
MAEDHROS: Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
???R???: Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
AMRAS: Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
???N???: Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
???E???: He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
MAGLOR: See him where the puma glories in his speed.

[Nerwen]

I think #3 is FËANOR ("Foe" + "ran").

[Nerwen]

That, by elimination, would make #6 CURUFIN and #7 CELEGORM, but I haven't actually worked out the clues yet.

[Nerwen]

Er... CELEGORM from "gormless"? But I don't get "lineless dollars".

And "cur" + "fuin" for CURUFIN?

[Pervinca Took]

An S is a dollar sign without lines through it. You lose two S's from gormless, exchanging them for musical notes.

[Pervinca Took]

CARANTHIR: Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
MAEDHROS: Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
FEANOR: Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
AMRAS: Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
CURUFIN: Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
CELEGORM: He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
MAGLOR: See him where the puma glories in his speed.

THEME: NERDANEL, FEANOR & SONS

All correct, and for the reasons you stated. Well done!

See my last post for explanation of 'lineless dollars.'

And over to Galadriel55!

[Nerwen]

CARANTHIR: Confused convener swallows a tirade, and then he appears.
MAEDHROS: Note, Sam’s bride and father circulate for him.
FEANOR: Troubled, the enemy hurtled to him.
AMROD: In a dream rode out, he did.
AMRAS: Mingled, one a day will help you work, rest and play. For him.
CURUFIN: Dog of night? He’s a little shaken.
CELEGORM: He’s foolish - changes two (lineless) dollars for other notes – in turmoil.
MAGLOR: See him where the puma glories in his speed.

THEME: NERDANEL, FEANOR & SONS

All correct, and for the reasons you stated. Well done!

See my last post for explanation of 'lineless dollars.'

And over to Nerwen!

Thanks, but it was G55, not me, who guessed the password, so it's her turn.

[Pervinca Took]

So sorry, G55! Duly amended, and deservedly over to you.

It's you two confusing me, with your nicknames of the same character! :D

[Galadriel55]

It's you two confusing me, with your nicknames of the same character! :D

We do it on purpose. :p



This one was inspired by some of Pervinca's masterpieces.

1. Pub locks out of order.
2. Mosquito absent but confused.
3. Fan's friend paid only a fifth of my price.
4. Note in stirred hot water.
5. ...with a bowstring for a harp.
6. Hammer scrambles hard worker.
7. Dwalin's brother loses way.
8. Half as tall as old.

[Pervinca Took]

7. Bain son of Bard? (Balin loses B).

P.S. You've written a fair few masterpieces of your own!

[Pervinca Took]

Ah ... is this one of those puzzles without straight elements?

[Galadriel55]

1. Pub locks out of order.
2. Mosquito absent but confused.
3. Fan's friend paid only a fifth of my price.
4. Note in stirred hot water.
5. ...with a bowstring for a harp.
6. Hammer scrambles hard worker.
BAIN: Dwalin's brother loses way.
8. Half as tall as old.

Balin loses L but yes, the answer is correct. ;)

Not all clues have straight elements because the password is very thematic - knock a couple down and the rest will fall. But not all elements are strictly cryptic.

[Pervinca Took]

As the clues have me baffled, I'll try guessing the theme instead.

Are they all children of a more famous parent?

[Galadriel55]

As the clues have me baffled, I'll try guessing the theme instead.

Are they all children of a more famous parent?

No...

[Pervinca Took]

I could have a guess at number 1 if there were a 'sounds like.'

Aerin

('air for locks; inn for pub). :D

[Galadriel55]

I could have a guess at number 1 if there were a 'sounds like.'

Aerin

('air for locks; inn for pub). :D

Good guess but no. You're thinking the right way though.

[Galadriel55]

I will give hints as needed. Are you working on a particular clue?

[Pervinca Took]

Well ... maybe the theme is kings?

I will make a guess at Thranduil for 'with a bowstring for a harp.'

[Galadriel55]

The theme is not kings. However, all the characters are male.

[Huinesoron]

Is #5 Haldir, who said the bowstring/harp line to Legolas while justifying blindfolding him?

The only theme I can see linking Bain and Haldir is 'showing up in movies when you ain't supposed to'... :D

hS

[Galadriel55]

Is #5 Haldir, who said the bowstring/harp line to Legolas while justifying blindfolding him?

The only theme I can see linking Bain and Haldir is 'showing up in movies when you ain't supposed to'... :D

hS

It's not Haldir. :D There is one person there closely linked to Bain.

[Galadriel55]

If it helps, #3, 5, and 8 are not really cryptic.

[Huinesoron]

I wonder whether the S.B.s only paid a fifth of the value of BAG-END? The only other discussion of price I can remember is in Bree, and there everyone seemed to overpay.

The theme would, of course, be 'starts with B'. :D

hS

[Galadriel55]

I wonder whether the S.B.s only paid a fifth of the value of BAG-END? The only other discussion of price I can remember is in Bree, and there everyone seemed to overpay.

The theme would, of course, be 'starts with B'. :D

hS

Not Bag-End. But you're not wrong about the pattern. ;)

[Nerwen]

For #5- BARD?

[Nerwen]

And #4 is BILBO ("B" + "boil").

...They don't really all start with B?

[Galadriel55]

1. Pub locks out of order.
2. Mosquito absent but confused.
3. Fan's friend paid only a fifth of my price.
BILBO: Note in stirred hot water.
BARD: ...with a bowstring for a harp.
6. Hammer scrambles hard worker.
BAIN: Dwalin's brother loses way.
8. Half as tall as old.



...They don't really all start with B?

As I said, the password is very thematic - and there is more than one pattern. :p

[Urwen]

8. Beor....?

[Nerwen]

Or is it BEORN, since so far they've all been "Hobbit" characters (or their offspring)? Beor was old and Beorn was tall...

[Galadriel55]

Neither Beor nor Beorn. I'm curious - why them? How did you get that from the clue?

[Urwen]

Beor is known as the old.


Maybe Dori, or Ori (Halves of Aldor and Beor, who were both called 'Old')

[Huinesoron]

#2 could be no bug == BUNGO Baggins, father of Bilbo.

Which suggests a theme of 'fathers and sons starting with B'.

hS

[Galadriel55]

#2 could be no bug == BUNGO Baggins, father of Bilbo.

Which suggests a theme of 'fathers and sons starting with B'.

hS

Correct on both counts!


1. Pub locks out of order.
BUNGO Mosquito absent but confused.
3. Fan's friend paid only a fifth of my price.
BILBO: Note in stirred hot water.
BARD: ...with a bowstring for a harp.
6. Hammer scrambles hard worker.
BAIN: Dwalin's brother loses way.
8. Half as tall as old.

[Nerwen]

I believe #6 is BEREGOND ("Grond" + "bee"), meaning his brat Bergil must be one of the other clues...

[Nerwen]

Aha! He's #8: "I am ten years old already, and shall soon be five feet."

[Galadriel55]

1. Pub locks out of order.
BUNGO: Mosquito absent but confused.
3. Fan's friend paid only a fifth of my price.
BILBO: Note in stirred hot water.
BARD: ...with a bowstring for a harp.
BEREGOND: Hammer scrambles hard worker.
BAIN: Dwalin's brother loses way.
BERGIL: Half as tall as old.

[Urwen]

Password: Bombadil?

[Huinesoron]

Password: Bombadil?

Hmm, which would rule out Barahir and Beren as the last pair... would Bombadil fit the theme because he is explicitly fatherless?

hS

[Urwen]

I dunno, but that's the only name which features all the highlighted letters.


I'll dig more.


Nope, found nothing else to match.

[Galadriel55]

...B... Pub locks out of order.
BUNGO: Mosquito absent but confused.
...M... Fan's friend paid only a fifth of my price.
BILBO: Note in stirred hot water.
BARD: ...with a bowstring for a harp.
BEREGOND: Hammer scrambles hard worker.
BAIN: Dwalin's brother loses way.
BERGIL: Half as tall as old.

Indeed!

[Galadriel55]

Hmm, which would rule out Barahir and Beren as the last pair... would Bombadil fit the theme because he is explicitly fatherless?

hS

Yes, Bombadil is the fatherLESS. Not sure what your logic is for your first statement...

[Urwen]

Can't find any B character who matches the last two clues.....

[Huinesoron]

Yes, Bombadil is the fatherLESS. Not sure what your logic is for your first statement...

'Neither of them has an M'.

... unless of course 3 is BEREN ERCHAMION, because Frodo lost only one finger, while he lost all 5.

I can see bar in BARAHIR, for pub, but can't get 'locks' from the last 4 letters.

hS

[Urwen]

The only other one with a 'bar' in his name is Barliman Butterbur.....

[Urwen]

Also, I've already made a new password set. I think you'd like the theme of my next one.

[Galadriel55]

'Neither of them has an M'.

... unless of course 3 is BEREN ERCHAMION, because Frodo lost only one finger, while he lost all 5.

Which it, of course, is, because turns out not that many B father/son characters have M's in their names!

I can see bar in BARAHIR, for pub, but can't get 'locks' from the last 4 letters.

It's a scramble of HAIR.



BARAHIR: Pub locks out of order.
BUNGO: Mosquito absent but confused.
BEREN ERCHAMION: Fan's friend paid only a fifth of my price.
BILBO: Note in stirred hot water.
BARD: ...with a bowstring for a harp.
BEREGOND: Hammer scrambles hard worker.
BAIN: Dwalin's brother loses way.
BERGIL: Half as tall as old.

Theme: Fathers and Sons, Start with B
Password: Bombadil the Fatherless


I hope you enjoyed this one. From my side it was fun to see you try to find the themes and not wholly believe everything would just start with a B. Not quite the same level as the square passwords, but I thought a double theme is a neat idea.

Anyways, over to Urwen now. You got us all licking our lips with that promise. :p

[Urwen]

Then, I won't keep you waiting


1. A way loses its tail, and a great Mannish warrior is revealed
2. A man of skill, but this is merely one of his names
3. He is like a rose, mixed up
4. Take a surname of famous writers and replace the ending with an article. (For him)
5. Disturbed, faint light is inside (He appears)

[Galadriel55]

3. Saeros - near anagram of "a rose"?

[Urwen]

3. Saeros - near anagram of "a rose"?


It's AS+ROSE, actually, but the answer is correct




1. A way loses its tail, and a great Mannish warrior is revealed
2. A man of skill, but this is merely one of his names
SAEROS: He is like a rose, mixed up
4. Take a surname of famous writers and replace the ending with an article. (For him)
5. Disturbed, faint light is inside (He appears)

[Galadriel55]

4. Famous writers in plural makes me think Bronte... Brodda? Doesn't make sense for an article.

Also, the theme would then be "the jerks of Middle-earth (and specifically to the House of Hador)". :D

[Urwen]

4. Famous writers in plural makes me think Bronte... Brodda? Doesn't make sense for an article.

Also, the theme would then be "the jerks of Middle-earth (and specifically to the House of Hador)". :D


Brodda is incorrect, and so is the theme. I very much doubt the solution to the first clue is a jerk - just the opposite, in fact. Also, #1 is of the House of Hador, so why would they be a jerk towards their own house?


For #4, think fairy tales.....

[Galadriel55]

For #4, think fairy tales.....

Ah, Grima from Brothers Grimm.

I wasn't really serious about the theme but it would have been a fun one. :)

[Galadriel55]

2. Curunir / Saruman?

[Urwen]

1. A way loses its tail, and a great Mannish warrior is revealed
SARUMAN: A man of skill, but this is merely one of his names
SAEROS: He is like a rose, mixed up
GRIMA: Take a surname of famous writers and replace the ending with an article. (For him)
5. Disturbed, faint light is inside (He appears)


Now, the remaining two are the main reasons I picked this theme in particular. The other three just happened to fit the theme (and had the necessary letters for the password)

[Galadriel55]

Well, you revealed that that one is of the House of Hador, so there are limited options but I can't get any to fit the clue, and I don't think ranting them off is fair.

The other thing is that the password seems to be Hurin, Turin, or Durin. Neither contains the first letter for the other Man, so these can tentatively be ruled out. Still not sure what the theme is, aside from possibly shady characters (NOT jerks, fine :p), and the younger branch of the house doesn't fit well with that.

So... how about #1. Tuor and Password = Turin?

[Urwen]

Well, you revealed that that one is of the House of Hador, so there are limited options but I can't get any to fit the clue, and I don't think ranting them off is fair.

The other thing is that the password seems to be Hurin, Turin, or Durin. Neither contains the first letter for the other Man, so these can tentatively be ruled out. Still not sure what the theme is, aside from possibly shady characters (NOT jerks, fine :p), and the younger branch of the house doesn't fit well with that.

So... how about #1. Tuor and Password = Turin?


Both correct.


TUOR: A way loses its tail, and a great Mannish warrior is revealed
SARUMAN: A man of skill, but this is merely one of his names
SAEROS: He is like a rose, mixed up
GRIMA: Take a surname of famous writers and replace the ending with an article. (For him)
......N: Disturbed, faint light is inside (He appears)


Figuring out the theme might help you find the final one.

[Galadriel55]

Can you explain how the Tuor clue works? I still don't see it.

[Galadriel55]

The closest I can get to tying all these people together is being [nearly], literally or figuratively, stabbed in the back.

Not a very solid guess.

[Urwen]

Can you explain how the Tuor clue works? I still don't see it.


Way = Route. Take away it's tail, ie E, and you get Tuor.


As for the theme, it functions the same way your fathers and daughters theme does. There are three pairs of characters. Two of the people in those pairs did to other half of those pairs what was done to the final person.


This is the closest I can tell you without giving it completely away....

[Pervinca Took]

Turin killed Saeros.
Grima killed Saruman.
Maybe one of the remaining answers killed the other?

[Galadriel55]

Turin killed Saeros.
Grima killed Saruman.
Maybe one of the remaining answers killed the other?

Wasn't Tuor granted immortality to be with Idril?

Way = Route. Take away it's tail, ie E, and you get Tuor.

Thanks!



Edit: ah, never mind, gotta be someone Tuor killed, not the other way around. MAEGLIN?

[Urwen]

Turin killed Saeros.
Grima killed Saruman.
Maybe one of the remaining answers killed the other?


See, I knew you guys would figure it out



Wasn't Tuor granted immortality to be with Idril?



Thanks!



Edit: ah, never mind, gotta be someone Tuor killed, not the other way around. MAEGLIN?



TUOR: A way loses its tail, and a great Mannish warrior is revealed
SARUMAN: A man of skill, but this is merely one of his names
SAEROS: He is like a rose, mixed up
GRIMA: Take a surname of famous writers and replace the ending with an article. (For him)
MAEGLIN: Disturbed, faint light is inside (He appears)


Theme: Killers and their victims.
Password: Turin


My next clue was gonna be a reference to 'Tidbits of Curiosity' thread.


Anyway, hope you enjoyed the clues and the theme......

[Galadriel55]

Anyway, hope you enjoyed the clues and the theme......

I like the theme, it's original and a little outside the box. Kudos to Pervinca for figuring it out!

[Urwen]

I like the theme, it's original and a little outside the box. Kudos to Pervinca for figuring it out!


You know the drill. The next one is yours. Make it a good one.

[Urwen]

One last thing. The final one was supposed to go GLEAM (rearranged) + IN for the cryptic part

[Galadriel55]

You know the drill. The next one is yours. Make it a good one.

This one is a little more back to the basics, but I don't think the topic has been done before.



1. A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
2. Jaw cracker darkened flower.
3. Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

[Pervinca Took]

Have been out of the loop for a few days helping out a friend ... sorry I missed so much. Fantastic passwords and I *loved* the B-named fathers and sons. It was all solved by the time I got back, but was the fan Sam, (Frodo's biggest fan), and Frodo was also his fan's friend?

[Urwen]

Have been out of the loop for a few days helping out a friend ... sorry I missed so much. Fantastic passwords and I *loved* the B-named fathers and sons. It was all solved by the time I got back, but was the fan Sam, (Frodo's biggest fan), and Frodo was also his fan's friend?


Did you like mine too? I'd say it's the one I am most proud of.

[Pervinca Took]

Of course! I said fantastic passwordS. Was it your first themed one, too?

[Pervinca Took]

4. Could be the cry O between THE and German accusative DEN, (Theoden), but not sure about the direction.

[Pervinca Took]

5. NNE + ring almost gives Nenning.

[Galadriel55]

Have been out of the loop for a few days helping out a friend ... sorry I missed so much. Fantastic passwords and I *loved* the B-named fathers and sons. It was all solved by the time I got back, but was the fan Sam, (Frodo's biggest fan), and Frodo was also his fan's friend?

Thanks! As I said earlier, it was inspired by your paired passwords. It was a great fun to make.

The fan is Sam, who keeps admiring Beren, and the fan's friend is Frodo.

5. NNE + ring almost gives Nenning.

Neither guess is correct, but this one has the right idea.

[Pervinca Took]

If something streams, it's RUNNING ...

[Galadriel55]

If something streams, it's RUNNING ...

Or it's just a stream.

[Urwen]

Of course! I said fantastic passwordS. Was it your first themed one, too?


Nope. The second. There was one before, but it wasn't as remarkable as this one.

[Pervinca Took]

Was the first before the one with Maeglin as the password?

[Urwen]

Was the first before the one with Maeglin as the password?


Yes.

[Pervinca Took]

This one is a little more back to the basics, but I don't think the topic has been done before.



1. A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
2. Jaw cracker darkened flower.
3. Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

2. AGATHURUSH? A bit of a tongue-twister, and it's the 'shadowy river.' (At least, it is in its Sindarin form, Gwathlo).

[Galadriel55]

2. AGATHURUSH? A bit of a tongue-twister, and it's the 'shadowy river.' (At least, it is in its Sindarin form, Gwathlo).

Right thinking, wrong place.

[Pervinca Took]

The Enchanted River in Mirkwood? Gulduin?

[Pervinca Took]

I can't help thinking the kindled undergarments means 'pants on fire' and is an allusion to Gollum's habit of telling porkies.

[Galadriel55]

I can't help thinking the kindled undergarments means 'pants on fire' and is an allusion to Gollum's habit of telling porkies.

Lol! Unfortunately the fire part doesn't relate to the garment. :D

The stream is not Gulduin.

[Pervinca Took]

I think Faramir warns against drinking from any stream running out of Imlad Morgul, but I don't think any of the streams are named.

Ditto the 'swift dark stream' that the barrels go down, from the Elvenking's hall to Lake Town.

[Nerwen]

I think Faramir warns against drinking from any stream running out of Imlad Morgul, but I don't think any of the streams are named.

The main stream is the Morgulduin (as you'd expect :p). I don't know know about that being a "jaw-cracker", though.

[Galadriel55]

The main stream is the Morgulduin (as you'd expect :p). I don't know know about that being a "jaw-cracker", though.

Well, think about what has neen called a jaw cracker. It's not quite that, but near - and a jaw cracker itself.

[Huinesoron]

I think it's Dwarvish as a whole that's a jaw-cracker (per Sam)... aha! Darkened is DIM, and a flow-er is a RILL, giving DIMRILL DALE in the Common Speech, or AZANULBIZAR if you want the full gargling-with-gravel effect.

hS

[Galadriel55]

I think it's Dwarvish as a whole that's a jaw-cracker (per Sam)... aha! Darkened is DIM, and a flow-er is a RILL, giving DIMRILL DALE in the Common Speech, or AZANULBIZAR if you want the full gargling-with-gravel effect.

hS

Indeed so!



1. A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
3. Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

[Galadriel55]

For #5, Pervinca had the right idea, just the wrong trinket. Try looking for another word for that.

[Huinesoron]

For #5, Pervinca had the right idea, just the wrong trinket. Try looking for another word for that.

Well, Mathom springs to mind, but I can't find a river of any size with two Ms in the name.

#4. ATHELAS is nearly A + alas! + the. :) AFTERLITHE even has the articles in their correct places, though the best I can do with 'fterli' is 'filter'. Perhaps you've recently had a filtration accident which made you weep in frustration? :D

Or, if I can branch out from English for a minute... THEODEN is the + o! + den, the German masculine accusative definite article. This would make Theoden himself 'without direction', because... his chief counsellor was actively working against him, I guess?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I have already suggested Theoden, with the same reasoning.

Hibernia is the Latin for Irish .. but will this help us at all?

[Huinesoron]

I have already suggested Theoden, with the same reasoning.

Hibernia is the Latin for Irish .. but will this help us at all?

Oops! Sorry. :)

I wonder whether it's 'drops Latin numerals from 'Gollum' and replaces with Irish numbers'... GTranslate says 50 (L) is 'caoga', while 1000 (M) is 'mile'. I... don't think that gets us anywhere.

... wait. If 'on fire' is a straight clue, then 'undergarment' could be bra. BRA + GOLL is most of BRAGOLLACH, which... I guess ends with what could be an Irish exclamation? And maybe 'um' is a common Latin term for 'by golly, everything has gone pear-shaped'? At least there's fire in it. :)

hS

[Urwen]

I think it means that it drops L and adds an I.....


Which alludes to Gorlim......

[Pervinca Took]

If you're right, theme might be (sites of) famous battles.

[Galadriel55]

A few correct guesses! If it's not here, it's not correct.


THEME: BATTLES
1. A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

Latin turned out to be more confusing than I thought. What I hadum in mindum is that everuthingium in Latinum seems to endum with um. Drop the Latin ending for an Irish one.

With the theme correctly guessed, you can hack away at the rest.

[Pervinca Took]

5. I think this might be LHAMMOTH, because it contains 'mathom,' which hS suggested.

Point ... not sure ... LH for left hand?

[Pervinca Took]

1. FIVE ARMIES? Number, arms, I .. possible reference to an army mess (dining hall)?

[Galadriel55]

1. FIVE ARMIES? Number, arms, I .. possible reference to an army mess (dining hall)?

Five Armies correct: five + arms + e + i.

Mathom is not the trinket. Ring was closer.


THEME: BATTLES
FIVE ARMIES: A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

[Urwen]

Password: Fight?

[Pervinca Took]

Is 4 just Unnumbered Tears for the 'cry,' or Nirnaeth Arnoediad?

[Pervinca Took]

5. Cabed-En-Aras ... bead + NE ... can't account for the C, though.

Didn't Turin fight Glaurung there, though?

[Galadriel55]

THEME: BATTLES
FIVE ARMIES: A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
NIRNAETH: Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
T. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.


For the last one - rings were still semantically closest trinkets to the one you need.

[Urwen]

5. Tumhalad?

[Pervinca Took]

There's the Battle of Bywater ... no trinket, but it's a stream.

[Galadriel55]

Neither one.

[Urwen]

Tarn Aeluin?


If this isn't it either, then you are intentionally misleading us, cos you put 'T' as the beginning of the final clue....

[Galadriel55]

Tarn Aeluin?


If this isn't it either, then you are intentionally misleading us, cos you put 'T' as the beginning of the final clue....

No, I put a T because it's the letter in the password. I never said it was the beginning - you know how these things work! Either all letters are first, or all are random.

[Urwen]

No, I put a T because it's the letter in the password. I never said it was the beginning - you know how these things work! Either all letters are first, or all are random.


If it isn't in the beginning, then you should have indicated it isn't, by putting a dot both in front of it and behind it.


And almost all battles have a letter 'T' in them somewhere....

[Galadriel55]

If it isn't in the beginning, then you should have indicated it isn't, by putting a dot both in front of it and behind it.


And almost all battles have a letter 'T' in them somewhere....

It may be in the beginning, or it may not.

It's not from the word "battle", but rather the name/place of the battle, like the rest of them. It's a major battle for its time, but we don't hear much about it because it's doesn't take place during the main text timeline.

[Urwen]

All the names/places that contain 'T' within them



Utumno
Eglarest
Sarn Athrad
Thousand Caves
Dagor-nuin Gilliath
Fall of Nargothrond
First Battle of Beleriand
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath
Fall of Minas Ithil
Fall of Mount Gundabad


....and even more than that.


So, you see, it's a lot.

[Galadriel55]

All the names/places that contain 'T' within them



Utumno
Eglarest
Sarn Athrad
Thousand Caves
Dagor-nuin Gilliath
Fall of Nargothrond
First Battle of Beleriand
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath
Fall of Minas Ithil
Fall of Mount Gundabad


....and even more than that.


So, you see, it's a lot.

Well, that's why you have an entire clue, not just a letter. ;)

For the record though, none of the above. And some of those aren't battles - like there's no "Battle of Thousand Caves", so ot can't be the answer. :)

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Tharbad

Although I can't figure out the jumbled trinket bit, from there we have ad (to), naming a battle fought on a stream with a T in it

[Galadriel55]

Tharbad

Although I can't figure out the jumbled trinket bit, from there we have ad (to), naming a battle fought on a stream with a T in it

No. The trinket and the point are the only elements of this word.

[Pervinca Took]

P.S. I liked NIRNAETH ... THE + IN + A and a direction within and without ... N on outside, R inside?

How were I and E accounted for in FIVE ARMIES, though?

Ah ... unless only V was the five and that gave us more letters to use up?

[Pervinca Took]

Now ... point could be tip/period (full stop) /even a point of an argument/purpose, rather than a compass point.

Trinket could be toy.

Trouble is, the nearest thing to a ring is a bangle or bracelet ... tried both. And chain.

I tried to get from bangle to Aglareb ... is that even a place, though? :D

I have the feeling it's one of the Third or Second Age ones, because everything is part of the story/timeline in the First Age ... Fords of Isen or Gladden Fields would be favourite if they had a T, or Last Alliance if it had a trinket. ;)

(Actually, we need it to be a river that was fought over ... Gladden means yellow iris, I think, so no stream element in that or Last Alliance).

[Galadriel55]

P.S. I liked NIRNAETH ... THE + IN + A and a direction within and without ... N on outside, R inside?

IN + THE + AN + R (direction), without direction ie jumbled. Basically what you have with only a slight difference.

How were I and E accounted for in FIVE ARMIES, though?

Ah ... unless only V was the five and that gave us more letters to use up?

No, they come from "one" and "note". Five = number, arms = weapons.

Trouble is, the nearest thing to a ring is a bangle or bracelet ... tried both. And chain.

You listed the right trinket here. Check them again. :) And you're entirely correct that it's not in the First Age.

[Urwen]

Ah, I see it now, thanks to Pervinca.


The trinket is BRACELET. Rearrange it and add 'N', and you get CELEBRANT.

[Galadriel55]

Ah, I see it now, thanks to Pervinca.


The trinket is BRACELET. Rearrange it and add 'N', and you get CELEBRANT.

Hurray for group effort!


THEME: BATTLES
FIVE ARMIES: A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
NIRNAETH: Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
CELEBRANT: Point trinket haphazardly to stream.


Over to Urwen!

[Urwen]

Give me a day or two to think about a good one...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I wasted a lot of time playing with "brooch", i.e. a "point trinket"

[Urwen]

Here is a fun one, with a fun theme.



1. Note, he was baited
2. Two notes followed by a confused blow for her
3. We hear that you are a returned novelty (For her)
4. A vase mingles with reversed pronoun for him
5. A mixed number and a conjunction mingle together for her
6. A bar and a Hawaiian garland mix up and mingle. She appears.


(You might be suprised by a little trick I've pulled here)

[Pervinca Took]

2. Edith?

E + D + HIT.

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Pervinca Took]

Oh! La la.

2. LALAITH.

3. URWEN. We hear U and R; NEW backwards.

[Urwen]

Oh! La la.

2. LALAITH.

3. URWEN. We hear U and R; NEW backwards.


1. Note, he was baited
LALAITH: Two notes followed by a confused blow for her
URWEN: We hear that you are a returned novelty (For her)
4. A vase mingles with reversed pronoun for him
5. A mixed number and a conjunction mingle together for her
6. A bar and a Hawaiian garland mix up and mingle. She appears.


Congratulations, you figured out my trick.

[Pervinca Took]

6. Niniel.

Lei + inn.

[Pervinca Took]

I think the theme is namesake pairs.

5. NIENOR - NINE + OR (conjunction).

[Urwen]

Not quite. I simply had to add these double names because.....well, I don't want to spoil the suprise....



1. Note, he was baited
LALAITH: Two notes followed by a confused blow for her
URWEN: We hear that you are a returned novelty (For her)
4. A vase mingles with reversed pronoun for him
NIENOR A mixed number and a conjunction mingle together for her
NINIEL: A bar and a Hawaiian garland mix up and mingle. She appears.

[Pervinca Took]

ELURIN for the password?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Elured.

E + lured.

[Urwen]

Congratulations.



ELURED: Note, he was baited
LALAITH: Two notes followed by a confused blow for her
URWEN: We hear that you are a returned novelty (For her)
R..: A vase mingles with reversed pronoun for him
NIENOR A mixed number and a conjunction mingle together for her
NINIEL: A bar and a Hawaiian garland mix up and mingle. She appears.

[Pervinca Took]

So maybe TURIN for the remaining clue.

URN + IT.

And siblings for the theme.

[Urwen]

ELURED: Note, he was baited
LALAITH: Two notes followed by a confused blow for her
URWEN: We hear that you are a returned novelty (For her)
TURIN: A vase mingles with reversed pronoun for him
NIENOR A mixed number and a conjunction mingle together for her
NINIEL: A bar and a Hawaiian garland mix up and mingle. She appears.


What I had in mind was children who died before their parents, but some research showed that this wasn't the case for Elured/Elurin, so let's go with your idea. :o

[Pervinca Took]

That was fun! :)

Although I have a few already prepared, I had another idea today and have just written the clues for it. Here they are:

1. Find him circulating at a strange support group.
2. Put back, almost intact, to find him.
3. A twist of double pastry for him.
4. Search around the ship for him.
5. Coin in German money? Shake it up for him.
6. Hail, spirit! Turn and see him!
7. For him, a happy alternative, with minimal compromise.

[Urwen]

7. Maeglin or Turin, because that's what I wish for them. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

Alas, no. ;)

[Urwen]

German money is GELD, but it has no Tolkien-esque connections.....

[Pervinca Took]

No, but it could be an element.

[Urwen]

German coin is Munze


EZMUN+DLEG still doesn't give anything Tolkien-esque.....

[Pervinca Took]

True. :D

[William Cloud Hicklin]

2. Erestor. "Put back" = Restor-e

[William Cloud Hicklin]

5. Glorfindel FLORIN + GELD rearranged

[Galadriel55]

7. GALDOR (glad + or)

Seems to be people in attendance at Elrond's council.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I tentatively had Galdor for 7, but I couldn't jibe OR with "minimal compromise."

Agree on the Council. Possibly council attendees NOT Fellowship members. That leaves Gloin, Elrond himself, and Bilbo. Or possibly Elladan and Elrohir, even though they weren't in attendance.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Find him circulating at a strange support group.
ERESTOR: Put back, almost intact, to find him.
3. A twist of double pastry for him.
4. Search around the ship for him.
GLORFINDEL: Coin in German money? Shake it up for him.
6. Behold, spirit! Turn and see him!
GALDOR: For him, a happy alternative, with minimal compromise.

THEME: PEOPLE PRESENT AT THE COUNCIL OF ELROND.

In GALDOR, OR is the 'alternative' bit. The 'minimal compromise' is that GLAD OR is only minimally compromised, because it's only just an anagram, (just as 'restore' is 'almost intact' in clue 2).

Urwen, FLORIN still remains inside GELD, even though both are rearranged - hence 'Coin in German money.'

N.B. I have slightly amended clue 6.

[Huinesoron]

Lo! Gin! Let us imbibe together, GLOIN!

hS

[Urwen]

4. Aragorn, which contains the ship ARGO.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Find him circulating at a strange support group.
ERESTOR: Put back, almost intact, to find him.
3. A twist of double pastry for him.
4. Search around the ship for him.
GLORFINDEL: Coin in German money? Shake it up for him.
GLOIN: Behold, spirit! Turn and see him!
GALDOR: For him, a happy alternative, with minimal compromise.

THEME: PEOPLE PRESENT AT THE COUNCIL OF ELROND.

Yes, I realised 'Hail' wasn't really an anagram of 'Lo.'

EDIT: Aragorn is not correct, I'm afraid.

[Urwen]

4. Elrond?

[Pervinca Took]

No.

(Please include reasoning for guesses, especially when there is only a limited number of possible answers left).

[Urwen]

Well, none of other answers contain the word 'ship' or any of its synonyms...

[Pervinca Took]

But there's no ship in Elrond. Did you mean search for him on the ship west?

There is one you haven't thought of yet.

[Urwen]

Nope. Can't see it. Bilbo and Frodo almost fit, if you count their full names, but they lack the letter 'T'.

[Urwen]

But I'll take a shot at the password: Meeting?

[Pervinca Took]

???M???: Find him circulating at a strange support group.
ERESTOR: Put back, almost intact, to find him.
???E???: A twist of double pastry for him.
???T???: Search around the ship for him.
GLORFINDEL: Coin in German money? Shake it up for him.
GLOIN: Behold, spirit! Turn and see him!
GALDOR: For him, a happy alternative, with minimal compromise.

THEME: PEOPLE PRESENT AT THE COUNCIL OF ELROND.

Correct! Well done.

P.S. I can't see how 'Baggins' has 'ship' in it. They would both work as answers if I meant 'Search for them on the ship west.' But that wasn't my initial reasoning behind the clue.

[Urwen]

Based on the letters, 1 is GIMLI.

[Urwen]

4 is Gandalf the Grey

[Pervinca Took]

Both wrong.