Password

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe Meduseld for 3 ... mead-hall but also the golden hall?

6. NAR + GO ... is there a hammer called THROND? :D

Or maybe NAROG?

[Nerwen]

Maybe Meduseld for 3 ... mead-hall but also the golden hall?

6. NAR + GO ... is there a hammer called THROND? :D

Or maybe NAROG?
NAROG contains most of GROND... maybe that's the idea.

[Pervinca Took]

NAROG contains most of GROND... maybe that's the idea.

Yeah, I was in a rush (lunchtime). But I did think of Grond.

Wondering about FELAGUND for 5 .. FE + LA ... but can't account for 'gund' or 'rise.'

[Nerwen]

You're entirely right about iron, and the dwarf association, but it's not Thorin.

I don't think there's any anagrams in this, though in general the clues are a bit looser than usual.

hS
Dáin II, then? He was called Ironfoot and came from the Iron Hills, which could be an "elementary rise", I guess.

[Huinesoron]

Maybe Meduseld for 3 ... mead-hall but also the golden hall?

6. NAR + GO ... is there a hammer called THROND? :D

Or maybe NAROG?

No - but there's one called Grond, which can be changed to have the beginning of 'be cast' - ie, THrow.

Dáin II, then? He was called Ironfoot and came from the Iron Hills, which could be an "elementary rise", I guess.

'Elementary' is indicating that 'Fe' is iron, but rise is indeed the hills, which are the answer (they are themselves for Dain).

1. A proper plural and archaic form gives the black its English name.
2. Named for their master in the blackened green.
3. Known by where and what it is, home of gold.
4. Belted and counted; look three from the back.
IRON HILLS - Fear halved, an elementary rise for the new king.
NARGOTHROND - Elvish fire, depart! The hammer begins to be cast by the river.
7. Firearms - the evil in the north.

hS

[Nerwen]

Huey... #7 isn't GUNDABAD ("guns are bad") is it?:rolleyes:

[Huinesoron]

Huey... #7 isn't GUNDABAD ("guns are bad") is it?:rolleyes:

Oh come on - would I ever do something so crude?

1. A proper plural and archaic form gives the black its English name.
2. Named for their master in the blackened green.
3. Known by where and what it is, home of gold.
4. Belted and counted; look three from the back.
IRON HILLS - Fear halved, an elementary rise for the new king.
NARGOTHROND - Elvish fire, depart! The hammer begins to be cast by the river.
GUNDABAD - Firearms - the evil in the north.

^_^

hS

[Urwen]

Dwarven realms for the theme?

[Huinesoron]

Dwarven realms for the theme?

No, but there is a reason so many of them are.

hS

[Nerwen]

Underground realms?

[Huinesoron]

Underground realms?

That's right. :)

1. A proper plural and archaic form gives the black its English name.
2. Named for their master in the blackened green.
3. Known by where and what it is, home of gold.
4. Belted and counted; look three from the back.
IRON HILLS - Fear halved, an elementary rise for the new king.
NARGOTHROND - Elvish fire, depart! The hammer begins to be cast by the river.
GUNDABAD - Firearms - the evil in the north.

Theme: Underground realms

hS

[Urwen]

Elvenking's Halls?

[Huinesoron]

Elvenking's Halls?

That sounds like a possible underground realm. Can you fit it to any of the clues?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is 3 EREBOR?

Known for being the Lonely Mountain.

[Urwen]

That sounds like a possible underground realm. Can you fit it to any of the clues?

hS


For 2.

[Pervinca Took]

Is 1 DWARROWDELF? Tolkien's preferred plural for dwarf (in English) was the archaic dwarrows/dwerrows (which I think he wrote ought to have existed, or something), and Moria was the black chasm.

[Pervinca Took]

Could password be DEEPING?

[Huinesoron]

Is 3 EREBOR?

Known for being the Lonely Mountain.

No, but also yes, so I'll give you that.

For 2.

In that case yes. :)

Is 1 DWARROWDELF? Tolkien's preferred plural for dwarf (in English) was the archaic dwarrows/dwerrows (which I think he wrote ought to have existed, or something), and Moria was the black chasm.

Exactly that.

Could password be DEEPING?

It could be... if this were a different puzzle.

DWARROWDELF - A proper plural and archaic form gives the black its English name.
ELVENKING'S HALLS - Named for their master in the blackened green.
LONELY MOUNTAIN - Known by where and what it is, home of gold.
4. Belted and counted; look three from the back.
IRON HILLS - Fear halved, an elementary rise for the new king.
NARGOTHROND - Elvish fire, depart! The hammer begins to be cast by the river.
GUNDABAD - Firearms - the evil in the north.

Theme: Underground realms

One to go!

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Delving!

[Huinesoron]

Delving!

Correct!

DWARROWDELF - A proper plural and archaic form gives the black its English name.
ELVENKING'S HALLS - Named for their master in the blackened green.
LONELY MOUNTAIN - Known by where and what it is, home of gold.
4. V - Belted and counted; look three from the back.
IRON HILLS - Fear halved, an elementary rise for the new king.
NARGOTHROND - Elvish fire, depart! The hammer begins to be cast by the river.
GUNDABAD - Firearms - the evil in the north.

Theme: Underground realms

This is the one clue I couldn't find a word with the right initial for.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is the 'blackened green' of clue 2 Mirkwood?

[Huinesoron]

Is the 'blackened green' of clue 2 Mirkwood?

Yep; Greenwood becomes Murky.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Them elves and their decadent ways. Drinking at all hours.

I guess there are two letters after V.

[Huinesoron]

Them elves and their decadent ways. Drinking at all hours.

I guess there are two letters after V.

There are indeed.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is it ------------ Caves?

Glittering Caves, perhaps, but how are they belted and counted?

[Huinesoron]

Is it ------------ Caves?

Glittering Caves, perhaps, but hos are they belted and counted?

Caves, but not the Glittering ones. One half of 'belted and counted' is a straight clue.

hS

[Urwen]

4. Caves of the Forgotten?

[Huinesoron]

4. Caves of the Forgotten?

Not that either.

One of 'belted' and 'counted' is a clue to the realm as a, um, realm; the other is a direct clue to the name.

hS

[Urwen]

Then I will leave it to others.

Btw, a bit of self promotion, but no guesses for my riddle? It's easy......

[Pervinca Took]

I guess it must be the Thousand Caves? Regarding 'belted' ... they are also called Menegroth. Is 'Mene' belt, since I think 'Menelwhatsisface' is Orion, the constellation with the shining belt?

...

No Angband or Utumno, then? ;)

[Huinesoron]

I guess it must be the Thousand Caves? Regarding 'belted' ... they are also called Menegroth. Is 'Mene' belt, since I think 'Menelwhatsisface' is Orion, the constellation with the shining belt?

...

No Angband or Utumno, then? ;)

It is the Thousand Caves, which are famously within the Girdle of Melian.

DWARROWDELF - A proper plural and archaic form gives the black its English name.
ELVENKING'S HALLS - Named for their master in the blackened green.
LONELY MOUNTAIN - Known by where and what it is, home of gold.
THOUSAND CAVES - Belted and counted; look three from the back.
IRON HILLS - Fear halved, an elementary rise for the new king.
NARGOTHROND - Elvish fire, depart! The hammer begins to be cast by the river.
GUNDABAD - Firearms - the evil in the north.

Theme: Underground realms

Mene in this case is meneg, 'thousand'; in the constellation, I think it's menel, 'heaven'.

Over to you, Pervinca.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

True ... I then remembered 'O menel aglar elenath' and realised that I was talking pants. :D

Another interesting password, so this one might disappoint. However, if the theme is still unguessed at the end *and* I can work out the answer to Huinesoron's 'One Thing In Common' question, (highly unlikely!), I might drop the answers in there as well. As far as I am aware, and with one caveat that I will explain, I think these are the only examples pertaining to this theme.

Here we go, then:

1. French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
2. A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
3. After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine with reveal her.
4. She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
5. Spouse around a way for him.

By the way, in my clues, from now on, sing/sang/sung can mean a note, and unsung/unsing can mean take a note away.

[Urwen]

4. Niniel (Nina+El)

[Pervinca Took]

1. French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
2. A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
3. After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine with reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
5. Spouse around a way for him.

It IS Niniel, but it's NINNY + EL.

[Urwen]

2. Earwen (Ear+un)

[Pervinca Took]

Nope.

I'd be pretty annoyed if someone used my ears as handles!

[Urwen]

Well, ear is a synonym for handle.

[Pervinca Took]

1. French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
2. A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
3. After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine with reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
5. Spouse around a way for him.

Apologies. I made a mistake in clue 5. Now amended, in every post it appears in.

[Urwen]

5. Finwe (Wife around N)

[Urwen]

Password is Turin. Yeah, I deducted that from only two answers.

[Pervinca Took]

You didn't.

You may, however, have *deduced* it. :D

[Pervinca Took]

1. French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
2. A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
3. After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine with reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
FINWE: Spouse around a way for him.

[Urwen]

Hurin, then?

[Pervinca Took]

???T???: French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
???U???: A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
???R???: After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine will reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
FINWE: Spouse around a way for him.

It's Turin. I just forgot to put the password letters in.

Whoops! A typo in the R clue. Now fixed.

[Urwen]

3. Miriel?

[Urwen]

2. Urwen (UN+WER)

WER is an abbreviation for handling services, in case you didn't know.

[Pervinca Took]

No and no.

[Urwen]

Well, if the theme is husband and wife, then Miriel must be an answer to 3.....

[Pervinca Took]

If it was the answer, I would have said so.

[Urwen]

If it was the answer, I would have said so.


Then the theme is not husband and wife?


I am confused here. There are only two relationships between Turin and Niniel: husband and wife, or brother and sister. But Finwe has no sister, thus it must be husband and wife. And only one of Finwe's wives contains R, and it's Miriel.

[Pervinca Took]

It is not the right answer. And you do not have the right theme.

[Urwen]

But what other theme could possibly connect Turin and Niniel?

[Pervinca Took]

Copying it over.

???T???: French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
???U???: A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
???R???: After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine will reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
FINWE: Spouse around a way for him.

[Urwen]

But what other theme could possibly connect Turin and Niniel?


????

[Pervinca Took]

I'm not telling you the answer!

I wanted to find a new theme, and a less obvious one.

[Urwen]

Dual names maybe?


In which case, 3 would be Nienor, and 1 would be Turambar

[Urwen]

Is forty-nine a roman numeral?

[Pervinca Took]

Re: Dual names

Good idea, but no.

It would make far more sense to actually solve the clues.

[Pervinca Took]

Is forty-nine a roman numeral?

Why don't you try it and see if it works?

[Pervinca Took]

Dual names maybe?


In which case, 3 would be Nienor, and 1 would be Turambar

It was actually someone else doing a dual names password - many, many pages ago now - that gave me the idea for couples passwords, and then all the family pairs I did too. But this isn't one of those kinds of themes/passwords.

[Urwen]

Let's see. DIRE-E = DIR. In a muddle = IDR

Forty-nine = IL

It gives us Idril.

[Pervinca Took]

Correct.

???T???: French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
???U???: A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
IDRIL: After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine will reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
FINWE: Spouse around a way for him.

[Urwen]

And I still have no idea what the theme is.....

[Urwen]

Handle is a knob and French for 'one' is UN or UNE......

[Urwen]

2. Luthien (HILT+UNE)

[Pervinca Took]

???T???: French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
LUTHIEN: A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
IDRIL: After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine will reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
FINWE: Spouse around a way for him.

[Urwen]

Maybe a hint for #1......?


I've tried everything to solve it. Synonyms, French translations, everything, and nothing gives me a Tolkien character.

[Pervinca Took]

It's a pretty famous French valley.

[Urwen]

And lingerie?

[Pervinca Took]

Well, yes. Choose an item of it!

[Urwen]

So Loire+Bra

[Pervinca Took]

One of those is right, and that's all I'm saying for now.

[Urwen]

Tar-Aldarion?

[Urwen]

I am assuming that the last character has an initial 'T'.

[Urwen]

Theme: People in the same family. Turin and Nienor are great-grandchildren of Bregolas, brother of Barahir, father of Beren, who married Luthien.

[Pervinca Took]

I am assuming that the last character has an initial 'T'.

They might.

Not Tar-Aldarion.

Not members of the same family. How about Finwe?

[Urwen]

Well, nothing fits. I've tried removing Loir (LOIRE-E) from the names of several characters I've found and I was left with things that don't fit each time......

[Urwen]

Unless I leave 'Loire' intact and remove 'R' from bra instead.....

[Pervinca Took]

I said no way, not no valley.

[Urwen]

But nothing fits.

I've tried various names, and nothing fits.......


aaaaaa...... >.>

[Pervinca Took]

I did say only one of LOIRE and BRA was correct.

I will also add that the particular lingerie item is one that I would personally never wear. Even when I was younger and thinner. (Revoltingly unhygienic, in my opinion).

[Urwen]

Wait......

[Pervinca Took]

But nothing fits>

Try another size ....

[Urwen]

Thorongil (THONG+LOIR)

[Pervinca Took]

THORONGIL: French valley lingerie? No way! Mix it up for him.
LUTHIEN: A handle and the French one are in turmoil for her.
IDRIL: After an awful, unsung muddle, forty-nine will reveal her.
NINIEL: She sounds like a silly one, the Spanish girl.
FINWE: Spouse around a way for him.

THEME: Tolkien characters loved romantically by two people, not just one.

Well done. Please go ahead and post the next password. I'm *hoping* I've just answered correctly in 'One thing in common,' and I want to put those names in there, unless you guess my theme before Huinesoron confirms yes or no.

EDIT: I have! So the theme is now the current question in that thread.

FURTHER EDIT: Now guessed in the other thread, so I will post it above too.

[Urwen]

But I want to know the theme.......

[Urwen]

Okay, so here you are.

1. Ancient letter in the spin. A middle way, and she is revealed.
2. An admirer of spinning mineral, he is.

Heh.

[Urwen]

Oh, and for those who want me to 'complete' this set before playing, it is completed.

[Huinesoron]

Well, RUNE + W gives URWEN for #1.

hS

[Urwen]

URWEN: Ancient letter in the spin. A middle way, and she is revealed.
2. An admirer of spinning mineral, he is.

[Pervinca Took]

UR, meaning warmth?

[Urwen]

UR, meaning warmth?


It means 'flame' in Sindarin. Not that anyone acknowledges Sindarin, though.....


It's always Gnomish this and Gnomish that, despite the fact that Sindarin is the official language in Beleriand.

[Urwen]

URWEN: Ancient letter in the spin. A middle way, and she is revealed.
FEANOR: An admirer of spinning mineral, he is.

[Pervinca Took]

It means 'flame' in Sindarin. Not that anyone acknowledges Sindarin, though.....


It's always Gnomish this and Gnomish that, despite the fact that Sindarin is the official language in Beleriand.

I knew someone once who preferred Sindarin, and even taught workshops on it. But she has passed beyond the Sundering Seas. :(

[Pervinca Took]

Ag is tempting for the mineral.

Ragnor, Ragnir?

But 'admirer' is hard to make work. Only FAN and LOVER occur to me, and they don't seem to appear in any R-initial names.

[Urwen]

Ag is tempting for the mineral.

Ragnor, Ragnir?

But 'admirer' is hard to make work. Only FAN and LOVER occur to me, and they don't seem to appear in any R-initial names.


And who says it's a R-initial name?:smokin:

[Pervinca Took]

Well, that's a bit naughty. I'd put ???'s in if it wasn't. And if it just happened to be a first letter answer in a puzzle of random ones.

...

Themewise, it should be FEANOR.

Let's see.

FAN ORE.

Yes. That'll do.

[Urwen]

Well, that's a bit naughty. I'd put ???'s in if it wasn't. And if it just happened to be a first letter answer in a puzzle of random ones.


Well, I asked you whether T was the first letter of the first clue in your previous puzzle, and you didn't say yes or not, so I am not obliged to either.

But yes.

[Urwen]

URWEN: Ancient letter in the spin. A middle way, and she is revealed.
FEANOR: An admirer of spinning mineral, he is.

[Pervinca Took]

No, that's different. If they're all initial, they're posted as such. If they're random, including some possible firsts, like Thorongil, they're posted as random. It's the type of password that decides it. Anyway, I've always said that in a random position one of mine, it could be first, last or middle.

Anyway, you pestered me until I said Thorongil might be!

Oh. You never actually put Urwen in.

...

Are you going to post the completed password?

[Urwen]

No, that's different. If they're all initial, they're posted as such. If they're random, including some possible firsts, like Thorongil, they're posted as random. It's the type of password that decides it. Anyway, I've always said that in a random position one of mine, ig could be first, last or middle.

Anyway, you pestered me until I said it might be!


But you never said 'yes' or 'no', so I don't see why I should tell you whether it's a first letter or not, given that you did not.

[Urwen]

Anyway, the turn is yours.

[Urwen]

URWEN: Ancient letter in the spin. A middle way, and she is revealed.
FEANOR: An admirer of spinning mineral, he is.

[Urwen]

Also, why isn't anyone trying to solve the riddle game?

[Pervinca Took]

But you never said 'yes' or 'no', so I don't see why I should tell you whether it's a first letter or not, given that you did not.

That's just petty. I have said before that if all are initial, I will indicate such. If the positions are random, they remain so until guessed. If it's a diagonal, or all are 3rd or last letter or something, none are highlighted and you look for the pattern. That's how a proper puzzle works.

Anyway.

1. As an Elf said to a Balrog. And it hadn't even trodden on his toe.

Yes, I've finished. And it might be my best one yet. It's certainly the most succinct.

[Urwen]

I don't recall any Elf saying anything to a Balrog. I could be wrong, though......

[Huinesoron]

I don't recall any Elf saying anything to a Balrog. I could be wrong, though......

What, you don't remember Ecthelion's famous line, "Ah'm gonna stab ye with mah hat!"?

(Ecthelion is an angry Glaswegian. It's in HoME XIII: The Weird Bits.)

hS

[Urwen]

No, I don't have that book.

[Huinesoron]

No, I don't have that book.

No, you wouldn't. ;)

I assume the answer isn't "Ai!".

hS

[Pervinca Took]

What, you don't remember Ecthelion's famous line, "Ah'm gonna stab ye with mah hat!"?

(Ecthelion is an angry Glaswegian. It's in HoME XIII: The Weird Bits.)

hS

And the Aberdonian Balrog answered: 'Is that so, yer wee gob****e?' :D

[Pervinca Took]

AI: As an Elf said to a Balrog. And it hadn't even trodden on his toe.

Of course it is!

Now, what's the password?

And what's the theme?

[Huinesoron]

AI: As an Elf said to a Balrog. And it hadn't even trodden on his toe.

Of course it is!

Now, what's the password?

And what's the theme?

'Vowels that can be indicated in Quenya-style Tengwar using only straight lines'. :D

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Too sophisticated.

This was thought up in five seconds in response to 'UR!'

[Pervinca Took]

OK then. ;)



AI: As an Elf said to a Balrog. And it hadn't even trodden on his toe.

PASSWORD: A!

THEME: ELVISH EXCLAMATIONS.

A Elbereth! Ai! Ai! A Balrog!

Over to Huinesoron.

[Huinesoron]

Well, if we're doing this:

0. Shagrat's guide to the correct pronunciation of Sauron's name.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Um. I don't remember any orc saying Sauron's name. Saruman-glob and the White Hand, yes. But I don't recall even a Smelly Sauron or Four-fingered Douchebag, or even Gorthaur Greypants or Ole Red Eye.

So is the answer an empty line, as suggested by 0?

[Huinesoron]

Um. I don't remember any orc saying Sauron's name. Saruman-glob and the White Hand, yes. But I don't recall even a Smelly Sauron or Four-fingered Greypants or Ole Red Eye.

So is the answer an empty line, as suggested by 0?

" " - Shagrat's guide to the correct pronunciation of Sauron's name.

"Neither does he use his right name, nor permit it to be spelt or spoken," said Aragorn.

The password is 'the correct pronunciation of the Name of the One outside of certain ceremonies', and the theme is 'unspoken names'.

Right, that's the silliness out of my system. :D Back to you, Pervinca.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I am trounced, indeed. (Bows).

...

What, I have to write some sensible clues?

(Grumble, grumble, tries to think of a password with minus 6 letters).

[Pervinca Took]

" " - Shagrat's guide to the correct pronunciation of Sauron's name.

"Neither does he use his right name, nor permit it to be spelt or spoken," said Aragorn.

The password is 'the correct pronunciation of the Name of the One outside of certain ceremonies', and the theme is 'unspoken names'.

Right, that's the silliness out of my system. :D Back to you, Pervinca.

hS

The One? The Dark Lord, surely?

[Huinesoron]

The One? The Dark Lord, surely?

Surely you didn't think I'd make the password and the clue identical?! The password is " ", which is how you say the true Name of Iluvatar when you're not getting married, performing one of the three annual prayers of Numenor, or condemning yourself and your family to a wild gem-hunt. (Or, in other words: you don't.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Recent passwords:

DIS
UR
A
[ nothing ]

And we've had 4 letter ones too. Plenty of 'em.

...

I will untrounce myself. I will!

[Nerwen]

*reads last couple of pages*

:eek:

[Pervinca Took]

You should read a few pages before, Nerwen. It got even dafter!

But now, the new password, and a friendly riposte to Huinesoron:

1. The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
3. Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
5. Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
6. 'Tis rare in Mordor.
7. Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
11. Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

[Urwen]

1. Feanor (From Foraneo)

[Pervinca Took]

Nope.

As a hint, it's a particular alien. Not a synonym.

[Urwen]

The only alien I know is E.T


Is that it?

[Pervinca Took]

No. There's a comedic one, but probably before your time.

Nerwen might know who I mean, if she's still up.

[Pervinca Took]

Nanou nanou ....

[Urwen]

Nanou nanou ....


What?

[Pervinca Took]

Sorry.

Nanu nanu.

[Urwen]

Orson?

[Pervinca Took]

Not Orson.

'Nanu nanu' is something the alien says.

I think I should point out that this password was a reaction to Huey's last one, and has a close connection with it. Some of these clues will not make sense at first ... or, more to the point, the answers won't. Just try to guess the easier ones first, which I would say are 1, 5, 7 and 11. 3 too, if you can see where I'm coming from with that one. Also 6, which is really just a straight clue.

1. The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
3. Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
5. Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
6. 'Tis rare in Mordor.
7. Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
11. Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

[Urwen]

Ah, so 1 is Melkor (MORK+EL)

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
3. Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
5. Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
6. 'Tis rare in Mordor.
7. Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
11. Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

P.S. Who is Orson?

[Urwen]

The character from the same franchise, and Mork's superior officer.

[Urwen]

For 7, synonyms of 'seize' is grab, so grab+lo.

[Pervinca Took]

Oh ... the one he reported to at regular intervals?

Have you seen any Mork and Mindy? I don't think I've watched it since it first aired.

[Pervinca Took]

For 7, synonyms of 'seize' is grab, so grab+lo.

Yes, that's promising.

[Urwen]

Nope. I prefer other cartoony shows, such as Wander Over Yonder and Steven Universe.

[Urwen]

Is the theme 'evil names'?

[Pervinca Took]

No.

[Urwen]

7. Bauglir?

[Pervinca Took]

No. You had the elements before.

[Urwen]

How stupid I was. I didn't see it. 7 is Balrog, and I've already said why.

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
3. Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
5. Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
6. 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
11. Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

[Urwen]

5. One ring?
6. Sunlight?

[Pervinca Took]

No, but 6 is close.

[Urwen]

6. Light in general?

[Urwen]

Drawback=failure?

[Pervinca Took]

No. What other thing would Sam ask Galadriel for, if he could?

[Urwen]

10. Narya, Nenya, Vilya?

[Pervinca Took]

Drawback=failure?

Find a synonym.

[Urwen]

No. What other thing would Sam ask Galadriel for, if he could?


Gardens?

[Pervinca Took]

Gardens?

In Mordor?

[Urwen]

5. Snaga?

[Pervinca Took]

Correct synonym, but you need another synonym too.

[Urwen]

In Mordor?


Weapons? Knives? Elvish daggers?

[Urwen]

5. Giant snag

[Pervinca Took]

Weapons? Knives? Elvish daggers?

Look at the Mordor chapters again.

[Urwen]

Which ones? The ones where they journey there, or the ones where they're already there?

[Pervinca Took]

Already there.

[Urwen]

Can't find it

[Nerwen]

Water?

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
3. Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
5. Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
11. Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

Yes. Initially I prefixed it with 'And all the boards did shrink.'

[Urwen]

2. Impolite=Unrude?
3. Rocky = Lithic?

[Pervinca Took]

Leave clue 2 for now.

3. Think of a film.

[Urwen]

Rocky Balboa?


Bilbo?

[Pervinca Took]

Right film.

What could Rocky be described as, which could be used as a character title in one of Tolkien's works, too?

[Urwen]

Strong?

[Pervinca Took]

Hint: as a very famous title of someone. In a very famous Tolkien book.

[Urwen]

Lord of the (wrestling) rings?

[Urwen]

Ash nazg durbatuluk

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
5. Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
11. Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.


Boxing, but yes. 'Lord of the boxing ring' was the idea I was going for. (I thought that was what Tolkien's story was about, before I read it! Many years ago).

Note I have put 'Ring' at the end, not 'Rings.' That's significant, because it refers to one particular time when that usage occurs. The only one in the books, I think.

[Urwen]

Giant+snag for 5?

[Pervinca Took]

No. Giant is the wrong synonym.

[Urwen]

Great?

[Pervinca Took]

No. Try putting things with the other element first.

[Urwen]

Can't find any object with 'snag' in its name......

[Pervinca Took]

The clue has 'him' in it as well as 'it.'

[Pervinca Took]

'Drawback' is actually partly straight clue, (but also an essential cryptic element).

Can you think of something or someone that was thought by some to be a nuisance/drawback/useless baggage but in fact turned out to be invaluable?

[Urwen]

There is no character which fits, except Grishnakh. However, once we remove snag from there, we're definitely not left with a synonym for huge.

[Urwen]

Could I get hints for harder ones too?

[Urwen]

'Drawback' is actually partly straight clue, (but also an essential cryptic element).

Can you think of something or someone that was thought by some to be a nuisance/drawback/useless baggage but in fact turned out to be invaluable?


Mim, Gollum and Fingolfin were all thought to be useless baggage by Androg, Sam and Feanor respectively, but ended up being invaluable at various points of time for various reasons. One of those?

[Pervinca Took]

All good ideas. And I knew you'd think of Feanor's words before he ordered the boats to be set alight (as I did). :D

Not in the Sil or LOTR, though. Another book.

[Urwen]

CoH? UT? FoG?

[Pervinca Took]

The one (and not of those three!) that was published first.

Also, try the last clue. What does 'tart' mean?

[Urwen]

The Hobbit?

[Urwen]

Then the titular Hobbit, aka Bilbo himself?

[Urwen]

Tart: sharp in character, spirit, or expression; cutting; biting:

[Pervinca Took]

Then the titular Hobbit, aka Bilbo himself?

Yes.

Now ... make the two cryptic elements fit, to get the answer.

[Pervinca Took]

Tart: sharp in character, spirit, or expression; cutting; biting:

Try the taste/flavour meaning.

[Urwen]

Then the 'it' refers to the Quest of Erebor?

[Urwen]

Try the taste/flavour meaning.


Sour or acid?

[Pervinca Took]

Then the 'it' refers to the Quest of Erebor?

Yes, but the 'him' is the final answer to the clue.

So take SNAG and a synonym of huge, and you get ...

[Pervinca Took]

Sour or acid?

One of those, indeed!

[Urwen]

Baggins (Big+Snag)

[Urwen]

And what about the 'disrespectful name' for Tolkien?

[Urwen]

11 is not Soronto again, is it?

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
11. Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.


What might one of Tolkien's names have been shortened to, but never was, as far as we know?

EDIT: No, nothing to do with kangaroo snot.

[Urwen]

His full name is John Ronald Reuel Tolkien. And John is another word for toilet.

[Urwen]

By the way, is my answer to your riddle correct?

[Pervinca Took]

His full name is John Ronald Reuel Tolkien. And John is another word for toilet.

Yes, but John = toilet isn't *short* for the name John. The element you need is short for just one of the above names.

Nice reasoning, though.

[Urwen]

Short for Ronald is Ron, and that isn't offensive, and I don't know about Reuel.

[Pervinca Took]

Short for Ronald is Ron, and that isn't offensive, and I don't know about Reuel.

It isn't offensive in itself, no. But it would be disrespectful to shorten someone's name without asking them, if they didn't use that shortened version already.

Anyway, it's the right element.

And you already had the other element.

So ....

[Urwen]

So Ron+Soul, or Ron+Acid?


Romendacil?

[Pervinca Took]

Why have you changed the R of sour?

And how is it still an insult if you turn it into Romendacil?

[Urwen]

Oh, I see. Sauron? (Sour+Ron)

[Urwen]

Now is 10 about a Tolkien palindrome, or a synonym of a palindrome?

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
2. Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
4. Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
8. Batman has one!
9. Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
10. One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
SAURON: Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

You need to get the theme next, really. With the exception of 9, the others won't seem to have a Tolkien connection without the theme. I was hoping Huinesoron would be around, because this password was a joke/reaction to his.

If I were to tell you:

1. You posted a password with only two clues/answers. So, for a laugh, I posted one with only one. Not to be outdone, Huinesoron posted one with zero answers. ;) (Go back and look).

Well, I could only beat that by going into minus figures, couldn't I?

Well, I have, sort of. You'll see when the password is solved.

2. There is another connection with Huinesoron's password. The reason 'Sauron' is one of my answers is connected to the 'Sauron' element in Huinesoron's last (or, as he put it, noughth!) clue.

[Urwen]

Minus eleven for the password?

[Pervinca Took]

Minus eleven for the password?

Yes! Well done. :)

And since there are eleven clues (or minus eleven ...) ;)

[Urwen]

Something which there are eleven of?

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
???I???: Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
???U???: Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
???E???: Batman has one!
???V: Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
???E???: One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
SAURON: Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

[Urwen]

I originally thought rings of power, but there are twenty, not eleven.

[Pervinca Took]

Something which there are eleven of?

Well, the password gives 11 examples of it. There are probably more in the books.

My comment won't really help with the clues. It's just my justification for trouncing Huinesoron back and linking the password to the theme. ;)

[Urwen]

10. Nenya?

[Pervinca Took]

Nenya is more than one vowel-shift away from a palindrome. ;)

It *could* fit the theme, actually! But it isn't one of my chosen answers.

So could Vilya and Narya (also not answers). Kicking myself a little now. ;)

Now, think of the context in which I just used 'Narya on Gandalf's hand' as my latest riddle .... (Riddles thread).

[Urwen]

Well, you said that it was the first time Narya and Vilya were mentione, and it was to honor the Ringbearers.

[Pervinca Took]

'Mention' is the key ... go on ...

[Urwen]

How is that related to the palindrome?

[Urwen]

No it nem is 'mention' backwards.

[Pervinca Took]

How is that related to the palindrome?

It isn't. It's related to the theme.

[Urwen]

Unmentionables?

[Pervinca Took]

Near enough.

[Urwen]

Unspoken names?

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
???I???: Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
???U???: Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
???E???: Batman has one!
???V: Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
???E???: One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
SAURON: Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

PASSWORD: MINUS ELEVEN

THEME: In relation to the password, the number of things above that are permitted to be mentioned or expressed at absolutely all times in every single work of Tolkien.

Or ... things/names someone forbids to be said/named/expressed/mentioned at least once in Tolkien's works.

[Urwen]

Can I get hints for remaining clues or is it too much to ask for?

[Urwen]

8. Name?

[Pervinca Took]

You'll find three of them in one sentence, if you re-read a little of 'The Hobbit,' where Gandalf is preparing them to meet Beorn.

[Urwen]

So 10 is Tippet and 8 is Cape

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
???I???: Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
???U???: Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
CAPE: Batman has one!
???V: Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
TIPPET: One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
SAURON: Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

PASSWORD: MINUS ELEVEN

THEME: In relation to the password, the number of things above that are permitted to be mentioned or expressed at absolutely all times in every single work of Tolkien.

Or ... things/names someone forbids to be said/named/expressed/mentioned at least once in Tolkien's works.

They are.

What about the third one?

[Urwen]

Third one is furrier, which is number 4 on your list.

[Urwen]

What about 2 and 9, though?

[Pervinca Took]

No, not a furrier.

'Mess it up' is *not* an anagram indicator here.

[Urwen]

Muff? Rug?

[Urwen]

Please give me hints for these clues.

What about 2 and 9, though?

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
???I???: Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
MUFF: Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
CAPE: Batman has one!
???V: Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
TIPPET: One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
SAURON: Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

PASSWORD: MINUS ELEVEN

THEME: In relation to the password, the number of things above that are permitted to be mentioned or expressed at absolutely all times in every single work of Tolkien.

Or ... things/names someone forbids to be said/named/expressed/mentioned at least once in Tolkien's works.

To muff something up is to mess it up.

For the V clue, you need to find a phrase used by Galdor during the Council of Elrond. If you're familiar with British pub names, I've always thought it sounds rather like one.

Galdor is referring to something that it is wise at that point in time not to mention. (Although at the Council it wouldn't matter).

[Urwen]

And for I clue?

[Urwen]

9. Halfling's trove?

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
???I???: Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
MUFF: Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
CAPE: Batman has one!
THE HALFLING'S TROVE: Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
TIPPET: One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
SAURON: Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

PASSWORD: MINUS ELEVEN

THEME: In relation to the password, the number of things above that are permitted to be mentioned or expressed at absolutely all times in every single work of Tolkien.

Or ... things/names someone forbids to be said/named/expressed/mentioned at least once in Tolkien's works.

It was the only way I could get a V - because I didn't think of the Three Rings. But it's such a lovely phrase, I'm glad I didn't think of Vilya first.

If you want a hint for the last one, it's based on this piece of text:

FRODO: The Ring is enough. This extra weight [of the orc mail-shirt] is killing me. It must go. But don't think I'm ungrateful. I hate to think of the foul work you must have had among the bodies to find it for me.
SAM: Don’t talk about it, Mr Frodo! Bless you! I’d carry you on my back, if I could. Let it go then!

[Urwen]

So bless+carry+it?

[Pervinca Took]

No.

What is Sam telling Frodo not to express?

[Urwen]

Not to talk about the Ring? Or not to express gratitude?

[Pervinca Took]

Not to talk about the Ring? Or not to express gratitude?

GRATITUDE it is!

RUDE (impolite) + GAIT (way of walking) + I (pronoun).

MINGLED: An anagram of the above three elements.

OPPOSITE: Gratitude is kind of the opposite of rudeness.

[Pervinca Took]

MELKOR: The Spanish alien is in turmoil for him.
GRATITUDE: Impolite? It's the opposite! A way of walking, a pronoun ... all mingled!
LORD OF THE RING: Rocky?
MUFF: Mess it up, but for something warm?
BAGGINS: Huge drawback to him, but it sure turns out OK!
WATER: 'Tis rare in Mordor.
BALROG: Behold ... seize ... spin ... it's there!
CAPE: Batman has one!
THE HALFLING'S TROVE: Sounds like a pub, or pub's speciality - this trifle of Sauron's, according to Galdor.
TIPPET: One vowel-shift away from a palindrome! See it. Wear it!
SAURON: Sounds like a disrespectful name for the Professor in a particularly tart mood.

PASSWORD: MINUS ELEVEN

THEME: In relation to the password, the number of things above that are permitted to be mentioned or expressed at absolutely all times in every single work of Tolkien.

Or ... things/names someone forbids to be said/named/expressed/mentioned at least once in Tolkien's works.

MELKOR – Name forfeited – now Morgoth. (Most Elves – and some others?)
GRATITUDE – ‘Don’t talk about it, Mr Frodo! Bless you! I’d carry you on my back, if I could. Let it go then!’ (Sam).
LORD OF THE RING – ‘Hush! Evil things do not come into this valley, but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but …. (Gandalf)
MUFF/CAPE/TIPPET – ‘Don’t be a fool Mr Baggins if you can help it, and don’t mention furrier/muff/cape/tippet until you are a hundred miles from [Beorn’s] house.’ (Gandalf).
BAGGINS – ‘The name of Baggins must not be mentioned. I am Mr Underhill, if any name must be given.’ (Frodo).
WATER – ‘If Shagrat himself were to offer me a glass of water, I’d shake his hand.’ ‘Don’t say such things! It only males it worse.’ (Sam, then Frodo).
BALROG: ‘Name him not!’ (Gandalf).
THE HALFLING’s TROVE – A way in which Galdor refers to the One Ring at the Council – and the One Ring shouldn’t be mentioned – Frodo fears Pippin might at the Prancing Pony when he is telling the story of Bilbo’s farewell speech, and Sam accidentally blurts it out to Faramir – ‘Sam!’ cried Frodo aghast.
SAURON – As Huinesoron said in his last password (or should I say ‘password?’ ;) ) – Sauron does not allow his servants to say or speak his name.

The record stood at: Urwen: 2 clues. Pervinca: 1 clue. Huinesoron: 0 clues.
The only way I could beat that was with a minus number ….



Over to you.

[Urwen]

Thanks for the hints, and as a token of my gratitude, I give you this:


1. Note a house covering in the muddle for him
2. A spinning car? Add a vowel for him.
3. Victual is a mess. Path in the middle. See him.
4. She is a doctor, or is it him?
5. Briefly, French note, with a vowel in the middle, unearths him.

[Pervinca Took]

Thanks for the hints, and as a token of my gratitude, I give you this:


1. Note a house covering in the muddle for him
2. A spinning car? Add a vowel for him.
3. Victual is a mess. Path in the middle. See him.
4. She is a doctor, or is it him?
5. Briefly, French note, with a vowel in the middle, unearths him.

1. ROOF + D (note) = FRODO.
2. FORD (spun) + O = FRODO.
3. FOOD (in a mess) + R (path/direction) = FRODO.

I've written a fair few Frodo clues in my time, and haven't thought of these!

[Urwen]

FRODO: Note a house covering in the muddle for him
FRODO: A spinning car? Add a vowel for him.
FRODO: Victual is a mess. Path in the middle. See him.
4. She is a doctor, or is it him?
Briefly, French note, with a vowel in the middle, unearths him.

I didn't highlight, because you said it's not to be done if the password is diagonal.

[Pervinca Took]

Oh … (I tend to write it 'DOH' (the note).

5. FR (a brief bit of 'French') + DO (note) + O in the middle = FRODO.

Not sure about 4. DR is doctor, but she?

...

Sometimes we didn't highlight at all, in the old days. The use of red is a relatively new thing in this thread (datewise). But it looks so pretty!

I think it might have begun when we started doing the random letters. I had already written dozens of first letter ones before resorting to random ones, though. And when we started doing themes, first-letter became harder to stick to.

[Urwen]

FRODO: Note a house covering in the muddle for him
FRODO: A spinning car? Add a vowel for him.
FRODO: Victual is a mess. Path in the middle. See him.
4. She is a doctor, or is it him?
FRODO: Briefly, French note, with a vowel in the middle, unearths him.


Oh … (I tend to write it 'DOH' (the note).

5. FR (a brief bit of 'French') + DO (note) + O in the middle = FRODO.

Not sure about 4. DR is doctor, but she?

...

Sometimes we didn't highlight at all, in the old days. The use of red is a relatively new thing in this thread (datewise). But it looks so pretty!


The doctor thing is something I've found by googling this.