Password

[Galadriel55]

I was working with 7, trying to get sound alikes from Nowthane and Nowking. But the only thing that sounds alike is, nothing. :p Is NOW the right element?

Also, extremely intrigued by the centaur.

Edit: is it perhaps a Harry Potter centaur? Firenze? And there was another one - Bane or something like that?

[Kath]

I'll stick to guessing for now!

6. A Numenorean's centaur

I can only think of Harry Potter centaurs if it's not a classical one, which made me think of Bane. So a Numenorean's bane ... Isildur's bane? Which would presumably make it the one ring.

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
2. Whatever the danger, one man desired this.
3. It sounds like a Scottish circle.
4. Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall.
5. Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction.
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
7. In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it.
8. An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these.

That's the one! (Or should I say the One?)

There was no straight clue, but I think that's defensible on this occasion.

Galadriel, NOW is indeed the right starting element for 7. Macbeth has alternative names, or should I say titles? ;)

[Urwen]

Right, so 7 is Nauglamir (Nau+Glamis-s+R)

[Urwen]

Password: Jeweling?

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
2. Whatever the danger, one man desired this.
3. It sounds like a Scottish circle.
4. Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall.
5. Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction.
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
NAUGLAMIR: In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it. (The famous necklace)
8. An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these.

All hail to thee, Macbeth, Thane of Glamis!

No to 'Jeweling.'

[Urwen]

Anglo-Saxon spear is GAR and lacework is NET. Garnet or Garnets?

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, and for an extra merit point, which king had garnets in his crown?

The clue originally had a second sentence at the end: 'A kingly adornment.' But I thought that made it too easy.

[Urwen]

Morlin's uncle did.

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
2. Whatever the danger, one man desired this.
3. It sounds like a Scottish circle.
4. Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall.
5. Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction.
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
NAUGLAMIR: In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it. (The famous necklace)
GARNETS: An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these. (In Turgon's crown)


Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.

[Urwen]

Why is it not 'jeweling'? It fits so perfectly....

[Urwen]

Jingling, maybe?

[Pervinca Took]

No.

Try to guess a couple more clues first.

[Pervinca Took]

Why is it not 'jeweling'? It fits so perfectly....

Jeweling isn't a word!

I suppose if it had two L's it could be a metaphorical word, with poetic licence. But it doesn't.

...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urbandictionary.com/define.php%3fterm=Jeweling&amp=true

OK, apologies. It's a slang term. But it isn't the answer.

It's actually a *different* slang term with double L, too.

I have learned quite a lot today! :D

[Galadriel55]

4. RELY + B = BERYL, which don't fall lightly on the bridges between Rivendell and the Shire.

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
2. Whatever the danger, one man desired this.
3. It sounds like a Scottish circle.
BERYL: Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall. (Glorfindel dropped one)
5. Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction.
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
NAUGLAMIR: In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it. (The famous necklace)
GARNETS: An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these. (In Turgon's crown)

Indeed they don't. Glorfindel dropped one on purpose.

Hee hee, Glorfindel dropped one! And on purpose, as well! Fragrant, ethereal elf my *bottom.*

(I always think a nice bit of lavatory humour makes a day so much better. Especially a day in lockdown!) :D

[Galadriel55]

(I always think a nice bit of lavatory humour makes a day so much better. Especially a day in lockdown!) :D

Without a bit of lavatory humour the whole day might as well go down the drain. :cool:

[Pervinca Took]

:D

As a hint, because that made me smile, BERYL *could* have been the answer to one of the other clues as well, if it had the right initial, (which it doesn't), and if another thing wasn't the answer, (which it is).

[Galadriel55]

Is 5 somehow ELESSAR, from yells + ???, the straight clue being Aragorn?

[Pervinca Took]

Is 5 somehow ELESSAR, from yells + ???, the straight clue being Aragorn?

It involves Elessar, but Elessar is not the answer.

Not 'yells.' A different synonym.

[Urwen]

It could be LESSER RINGS (Rings = calls), but A is not a direction...

[Galadriel55]

It could be LESSER RINGS (Rings = calls), but A is not a direction...

But E is. Sounds like Elessar, without the first E. I think you have it.

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
2. Whatever the danger, one man desired this.
3. It sounds like a Scottish circle.
BERYL: Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall. (Glorfindel dropped one)
LESSER RINGS: Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction. (Essays in the craft)
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
NAUGLAMIR: In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it. (The famous necklace)
GARNETS: An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these. (In Turgon's crown)

Exactly. And 'we hear' deals with the A / the 'wrong' spelling.

[Urwen]

Jumbling for the Password?

[Urwen]

Scottish circle is 'cearcall', I believe.

[Pervinca Took]

Not jumbling, and not a word for circle in another language or dialect.

[Galadriel55]

Well, it is clearly Macround, the secret fourth Silmaril which Gil-Galad carried hidden in his underpants and which earned him the nickname...


:p

[Pervinca Took]

Damn! Now I won't sleep until I've found a rude sobriquet for Rodnor! :D

I am up at 3.39 because I worked very late, then became engrossed in writing another password and its clues.

Regarding the Scottish thing ... get geographical. ;)

[Urwen]

This? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjaltadans)

[Pervinca Took]

No. You have clearly really tried hard to answer this clue. And I am also in a good mood, because I woke early as well as retiring very late, with a drive to complete yet another password I'd been thinking of for a while ... and complete it I just have! So two more added to my stock in less than seven hours, about four of which were spent asleep. :)

There's nothing to really catch you out in the two remaining clues. They are the same kinds of answers as the ones already there.

One of them you would first think of by another name, but I wanted to keep to first letters for the password if at all possible. However, the name I *have* used is not obscure, by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I believe it is used exactly as many times as the one people would tend to think of first!

For the 'Scottish' clue, what I would do is try another 'thing' like the 'things' that are already answers in this puzzle, then consider the 'Scottish' connection, keeping the words 'sounds like' in mind.

The other one could equally have had BERYL as the answer, but I wanted Glorfindel to have his moment and I needed an answer in this position that didn't begin with B, but with another letter.

[Huinesoron]

For the Scottish one, I really want to go Loch > Lock, but the only word that jumps to mind is "Lockbearer", and Gimli doesn't exactly fit the theme.

I suppose 'circle' could mean we're looking at any of the 'Ring of X/X's Ring' possibilities? Which just means we need a person or attribute that sounds Scottish.

[Goes to look up Finwe's weird uncle Okai Dhenu]

hS

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
2. Whatever the danger, one man desired this.
3. It sounds like a Scottish circle.
BERYL: Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall. (Glorfindel dropped one)
LESSER RINGS: Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction. (Essays in the craft)
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
NAUGLAMIR: In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it. (The famous necklace)
GARNETS: An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these. (In Turgon's crown)

Copying it over for the new page.

You are right about RING for circle.

The Scottish element isn't a person or an attribute, though. Or a stereotypical catchphrase. :D

[Galadriel55]

I suppose 'circle' could mean we're looking at any of the 'Ring of X/X's Ring' possibilities? Which just means we need a person or attribute that sounds Scottish.

Piggybacking off this and Pervinca's geographical clue, Ring of Air? For Ayr?

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
2. Whatever the danger, one man desired this.
RING OF AIR: It sounds like a Scottish circle. (Vilya/Ayr)
BERYL: Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall. (Glorfindel dropped one)
LESSER RINGS: Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction. (Essays in the craft)
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
NAUGLAMIR: In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it. (The famous necklace)
GARNETS: An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these. (In Turgon's crown)

[Urwen]

Jirbling?

[Galadriel55]

Or perhaps Jar Bling, in which case the last one might be Arkenstone (though nothing to explain the cryptic).

[Pervinca Took]

No.

Wait for it ...

You will find the final answer in a SONG. :)

[Urwen]

Then what's the password? We've exhausted all known words that begin with J and end with RBLING. :mad:

[Galadriel55]

There is EMERALD, in the Earendil song, which I discarded because it made no sense with the clues, and JERBLING makes no more sense than JIRBLING or JARBLING.


Oh, hang on - it's JRR BLING!

[Galadriel55]

For the remaining clue:

We know it also goes by another name, that is perhaps more popular, but not used more often by JRRT.
The answer could have been "beryl" (is it because it could fill the R in the password, or because it actually answers the clue?).
It's in a song.
Yes, I am working with JRR BLING as the password because it makes more sense than anything you get with a vowel in that place.

I am finding myself quite short on ideas. Can it be another Ring of X? I cannot see how you can solve this clue cryptically. Literally, most Rings were desired by more than one person. RING OF BARAHIR, which was only really desired by Beren when he stole it back from the orcs? But what's the other common name for it? And what song is it in? :confused:

Or something like RUBY, to match the beryl and garnets.

I don't know.

[Pervinca Took]

JEWELLED HILT: Belongs to a thing sounding like a seabird’s carpus. (On Orcrist)
RUBY: Whatever the danger, one man desired this. (The Man In The Moon)
RING OF AIR: It sounds like a Scottish circle. (Vilya/Ayr)

BERYL: Note and depend in confusion, for a thing allowed to fall. (Glorfindel dropped one)
LESSER RINGS: Aragorn calls for them, we hear, without direction. (Essays in the craft)
ISILDUR'S BANE: A Numenorean’s centaur? (The One Ring)
NAUGLAMIR: In the present, Macbeth, one might say, changes direction for it. (The famous necklace)
GARNETS: An Anglo-Saxon spear driven into lacework will produce these. (In Turgon's crown)

:D

It did start as just BLING. But bling is about excess, and I thought we needed more. And I wanted to get more jewels in.

Like I said, look for the last one in a SONG! You'll find it very close to BERYL. The man referred to in the clue desired both.

Regarding your previous guess, G55, how would you fit the Arkenstone in a JAR? :p

Oh! You have the last answer, too. Hang on; I'll fetch you the song.

And over to Galadriel55!

[Galadriel55]

Regarding your previous guess, G55, how would you fit the Arkenstone in a JAR? :p

It would be a very big jar. :Merisu: After all, it also has to accommodate a jeweled hilt. Besides, it's more probable than, say, Aglarond, which I considered for the circle clue. :D

And you do, absolutely, get the prize for late password topple! I wonder what the record is, in terms of the number of clues solved and number of clues remaining before password is done. Actually, I wonder if in the time the trend was to hide passwords backwards, diagonally, zigzagging, etc, there were cases of completely solved clues before the password emerged. But this definitely has to be a record for highlighted letter passwords!

[Pervinca Took]

Here it is. I'll highlight the significant line(s).

The Man in the Moon Came Down Too Soon

From ‘The Adventures of Tom Bombadil’

The Man in the Moon had silver shoon,
and his beard was of silver thread;
With opals crowned and pearls all bound
about his girdlestead,
In his mantle grey he walked one day
across a shining floor,
And with crystal key in secrecy
he opened an ivory door.

On a filigree stair of glimmering hair
then lightly down he went,
And merry was he at last to be free
on a mad adventure bent.
In diamonds white he had lost delight;
he was tired of his minaret
Of tall moonstone that towered alone
on a lunar mountain set.

He would dare any peril for ruby and beryl
to broider his pale attire,
For new diadems of lustrous gems,
emerald and sapphire.
He was lonely too with nothing to do
but stare at the world of gold
And heark to the hum that would distantly come
as gaily round it rolled.

At plenilune in his argent moon
in his heart he longed for Fire:
Not the limpid lights of wan selenites;
for red was his desire,
For crimson and rose and ember-glows,
for flame with burning tongue,
For the scarlet skies in a swift sunrise
when a stormy day is young.

He’d have seas of blues, and the living hues
of forest green and fen;
And he yearned for the mirth of the populous earth
and the sanguine blood of men.
He coveted song, and laughter long,
and viands hot, and wine,
Eating pearly cakes of light snowflakes
and drinking thin moonshine.

He twinkled his feet, as he thought of the meat,
of pepper, and punch galore;
And he tripped unaware on his slanting stair,
and like a meteor,
A star in flight, ere Yule one night
flickering down he fell
From his laddery path to a foaming bath
in the windy Bay of Bel.

He began to think, lest he melt and sink,
what in the moon to do,
When a fisherman’s boat found him far afloat
to the amazement of the crew,
Caught in their net all shimmering wet
in a phosphorescent sheen
Of bluey whites and opal lights
and delicate liquid green.

Against his wish with the morning fish
they packed him back to land:
‘You had best get a bed in an inn,’ they said;
‘the town is near at hand’.
Only the knell of one slow bell
high in the Seaward Tower
Announced the news of his moonsick cruise
at that unseemly hour.

Not a hearth was laid, not a breakfast made,
and dawn was cold and damp.
There were ashes for fire, and for grass the mire,
for the sun a smoking lamp
In a dim back-street. Not a man did he meet,
no voice was raised in song;
There were snores instead, for all folk were abed
and still would slumber long.

He knocked as he passed on doors locked fast,
and called and cried in vain,
Till he came to an inn that had light within,
and he tapped at a window-pane.
A drowsy cook gave a surly look,
and ‘What do you want?’ said he.
‘I want fire and gold and songs of old
and red wine flowing free!’

‘You won’t get them here,’ said the cook with a leer,
‘but you may come inside.
Silver I lack and silk to my back –
maybe I’ll let you bide.’
A silver gift the latch to lift,
a pearl to pass the door;
For a seat by the cook in the ingle-nook
it cost him twenty more.

For hunger or drouth naught passed his mouth
till he gave both crown and cloak;
And all that he got, in an earthen pot
broken and black with smoke,
Was porridge cold and two days old
to eat with a wooden spoon.
For puddings of Yule with plums, poor fool,
he arrived so much too soon:
An unwary guest on a lunatic quest
from the Mountains of the Moon.

...

He longs for other red things too, as you can see. And in a different version, in Lost Tales, he longs for a red terrestrial pyre.

[Galadriel55]

Here it is. I'll highlight the significant line(s).

The Man in the Moon Came Down Too Soon

From ‘The Adventures of Tom Bombadil’

I figured it's one of those songs, because of your INSISTENCE :p, and that none of the LOTR ones I could remember had a line like that in them with reference to bling.

Once again, cheers for the most-clues-to-password password! :D

Unlike you, I do not make these in advance though. Something coming up soon.

[Pervinca Took]

For the remaining clue:

We know it also goes by another name, that is perhaps more popular, but not used more often

No, I was talking about the last-but-one clue - RING OF AIR - because most people would probably think VILYA first. But I think both terms are literally used ONCE, and in the same sentence, in the final chapter of LOTR.

[Galadriel55]

No, I was talking about yhe last-but-one clue - Ring of Air - because most people would probably think VILYA first. But I think both terms are literally used ONCE, and in the same sentence, in the final chapter of LOTR.

Ah. That makes much more sense. :D

[Pervinca Took]

Actually, I wonder if in the time the trend was to hide passwords backwards, diagonally, zigzagging, etc, there were cases of completely solved clues before the password emerged. But this definitely has to be a record for highlighted letter passwords

Long ago, I read through the earliest pages of this thread, and there was indeed one like that. The password was ANGAINOR, or is it sometimes called UNGAINOR?

I think I maybe hold the record for a 'first letter' one, though, as you said. ;)

I'm sorry about the multiple posts. I think there's a quick way of getting lots of quotes in one post - Huey does it all the time - but I don't know how.

[Galadriel55]

Long ago, I read through the earliest pages of this thread, and there was indeed one like that. The password was ANGAINOR, or is it sometimes called UNGAINOR?

I don't recall ever seeing Ungainor. Is that from the early drafts or something? Published Sil only has Angainor.

I think there's a quick way of getting lots of quotes in one post - Huey does it all the time - but I don't know how.

You just use the same "code" that clicking the "quote post" button does automatically for you. You can add them by clicking the button at the top of your post (where you see options to bold, italicize, etc - it's the third from the right). Or you can type it in by hand: text [/qoute] (deliberately misspelled so it won't work and you'll see the text of the code). To add the poster's name, you put it in the first bracket that opens the quote: [qoute=Author].

Viola:

[quote=Big Authority on Quotations]Quotes are an excellent way to refer to other people's posts on a forum!

[Pervinca Took]

I'm a big fan of Viola, and her twin, Sebastian. :D

Seriously, thanks. :)

I think my mind was just conflating the word 'ungainly' (which a ruddy great chain would be - ask Jacob Marley's ghost) with Melkor's chain.

[Galadriel55]

I'm a big fan of Viola, and her twin, Sebastian. :D

I am a little embarrassed that I had to look this up. :o But yes, Viola and Sebastian shall henceforth announce quotations! :p

[Urwen]

Jrr Bling isn't a word either. :rolleyes:

[Galadriel55]

Jrr Bling isn't a word either. :rolleyes:

But it's guessable (with enough letters) and makes sense. The theme was Tolkien's bling. *shrug*

[Pervinca Took]

But it's guessable (with enough letters) and makes sense. The theme was Tolkien's bling. *shrug*

Besides, if you read my post from yesterday, I looked up both spellings of 'jewel(l)ing,' and amended it and apologised, having discovered that both were actually slang terms. And said that I had learned a lot that day.

I am not, however, apologising for the fact that they weren't the answer to the password.

[Urwen]

Since when is 'JRR BLING' a widely used slang term? Give me any website that lists it as slang term and I will concede the point.

[Galadriel55]

Since when is 'JRR BLING' a widely used slang term? Give me any website that lists it as slang term and I will concede the point.

Sure! That website is The Barrow Downs, where the name John Ronald Reuel is most often shortened to JRR. :smokin:

[Urwen]

I meant a lingual website. The one that lists real life slang terms.

[Kath]

JRR BLING is brilliant. :D At one point I'd considered it might be a name, say of the person who made the jewelry for the LOTR films, but hadn't thought of initials!

[Pervinca Took]

Bling:

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-home&source=hp&ei=_BikXqSoJOXUgwfDsKXADA&q=bling&oq=bling&gs_lcp=ChFtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1ocBAMMggILhCDARCTAjI CCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAA6AggpOgUIABCDA ToECCkQDToCCC46BQguEIMBUIcRWJccYLUoaABwAHgAgAHfAog B3waSAQcyLjEuMS4xmAEAoAEBsAEP&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-hp

'Bring me my Foster's guide of gold
Bring me the works of JRR.' ;)

(From 'Earusalem,' by someone in the Tolkien Society).

Bling invented or used by JRR. ;)

I did really hunt for a jewel or ornament beginning with T, to make it JRRT Bling, but no-one really has a tiara and it just sounded wrong to pretend they did.

And then I thought J R R BLING had a nicer ring to it anyway. A bit like MIM'S TATERS. :D (Similarly, Pervinca's bling is much more catchy than Pervinca Took's bling).

Simples, really.

[Urwen]

No, I understand that BLING is a slang, but 'JRR BLING' as a phrase is not. Show me otherwise.

[Pervinca Took]

No. Number one, I don't take orders from you, and number two, I don't have to. We are not robots. We are intelligent people engaging in wordplay, and going for something new, catchy or challenging because we have been playing the game so long. Where there is wordplay, there is poetic licence and thinking outside the box.

Wake up and smell the coffee. There really are worse things happening out there than not managing to guess the right password. And more important things to do than trying to prove that you did.

[Urwen]

No. Number one, I don't take orders from you, and number two, I don't have to. We are not robots. We are intelligent people engaging in wordplay, and going for something new, catchy or challenging because we have been playing the game so long. Where there is wordplay, there is poetic licence and thinking outside the box.

Wake up and smell the coffee. There really are worse things happening out there than not managing to guess the right password. And more important things to do than trying to prove that you did.

This is not about whether I guessed a password, it's about you intentionally misleading us. I mean, you yourself said that the whole password is a slang. The whole one, not just a part of it.

[Galadriel55]

This is not about whether I guessed a password, it's about you intentionally misleading us. I mean, you yourself said that the whole password is a slang. The whole one, not just a part of it.

Urwen, will you drop it? Pervinca didn't mislead me, or Huey, or Kath. The reason you feel she mislead you is that you mislead yourself. Note that no one else has a problem with this password. Maybe it's a good idea to solve things with your head rather than a search engine, then you won't be surprised that word combinatins can exist outside of what the engine spits out. Stop taking it out on other people every time something doesn't go the way you were expecting. I was patient with your previous private outburst to me, but I only have so much patience. The rest of us aren't here to please your desires, and the only one not observing the code of conduct is yourself.



New password to come in a day or so.

[Urwen]

Urwen, will you drop it? Pervinca didn't mislead me, or Huey, or Kath. The reason you feel she mislead you is that you mislead yourself. Note that no one else has a problem with this password. Maybe it's a good idea to solve things with your head rather than a search engine, then you won't be surprised that word combinatins can exist outside of what the engine spits out. Stop taking it out on other people every time something doesn't go the way you were expecting. I was patient with your previous private outburst to me, but I only have so much patience. The rest of us aren't here to please your desires, and the only one not observing the code of conduct is yourself.



New password to come in a day or so.

Great, so one person can declare a random phrase as a slang term and everyone else would treat it as such?

So I hereby declare that 'baobab pudding' is a slang term, and you have to treat it as slang term from now on.


(Also, you're also breaking the code of conduct. You're implying that I should bend over backwards and indulge your strange need to stare at the Barrow Downs forum index for some reason while you're unwilling indulge me in turn. Know that I won't indulge anyone unwilling to do the same for me. As such, I will revert to extremely vague clues next time I write a puzzle and refuse to give you extra in any way, shape or form even if you ask for them. Not willing to help me when I am confused? Fine, then I won't help you when you are and don't go asking me for help and expecting me to comply. Not until you get off your high horses and return the favor. I practically served all of the answers of my Notion Club password to you on a silver platter. And what did I get in return? No help at all. Not one iota of it, despite asking for it repeatedly. If that's how you're gonna play it, then I will too. Don't ask me for help with the clues in the future, cos you ain't getting any.)

[Huinesoron]

JRR BLING is brilliant. At one point I'd considered it might be a name, say of the person who made the jewelry for the LOTR films, but hadn't thought of initials!

Concur - this was a great password! I was wracking my brains just like Urwen to try and find a word that fitted; it's much more fun that the ones where the password falls one clue in and people stop guessing because they know they're not going to get to make one. :)

I'm sorry about the multiple posts. I think there's a quick way of getting lots of quotes in one post - Huey does it all the time - but I don't know how.

Kind of two answers here, one or the other of which you probably know:

1. The multi-quote button under each post saves that post as a quote. If you click it for multiple posts, then hit the main Post Reply button at the end of the page, it sticks all of them into your post to work with.

2. If you're working in code-viewing mode (does the Downs even have a WYSIWYG mode?), each quote looks like this, only with square brackets rather than pointy:

<QUOTE=Pervinca Took;722647>I'm sorry about the multiple posts. I think there's a quick way of getting lots of quotes in one post - Huey does it all the time - but I don't know how.</QUOTE>

To split it up and reply to just parts, all I do is copy that opening <quote> and add in some more </quote>s:

<QUOTE=Pervinca Took;722647>I'm sorry about the multiple posts. I think there's a quick way of getting lots of quotes in one post</quote>

<QUOTE=Pervinca Took;722647>Huey does it all the time - but I don't know how.</QUOTE>

Et voila!

So I hereby declare that 'baobab pudding' is a slang term, and you have to treat it as slang term from now on.

That sounds like a great password! ;) If you can find a way to link it to a series of Tolkien clues, go for it! (Though probably not this one, because you've just given it away...)

As such, I will revert to extremely vague clues next time I write a puzzle and refuse to give you extra in any way, shape or form even if you ask for them.

Please don't. :) Deliberately tying up the game just spoils the fun for everyone, yourself included.

hS

[Urwen]

Please don't. :) Deliberately tying up the game just spoils the fun for everyone, yourself included.
hS

To take a quote from Galadriel's book, I don't care. I'll continue doing what I want. I don't have the obligation to make the game easier for anyone. I have no obligation to do anything for you or anyone else, common courtesy be damned.

[Pervinca Took]

Mislead you? I actually told you exactly how to get the password!

I gave a HUGE clue on how to find RUBY. I said it was in a song, and BERYL was there as well.

If you had done that, instead of posting moody faces at me and trying to browbeat me into actually telling you the password, you would have had the last clue AND the password, as the last red letter would have appeared!

THAT was how I was nudging you towards the password.

And baobab pudding *can* be a term, if you choose to make it one! It now exists on an internet forum, along with J R R Bling and Mim's Taters! Language isn't a static thing.

[Urwen]

If you guys could be sadistic assholes who are willing to get someone else's hopes up by logging on and then doing nothing or putting your own needs and desires above someone else's, then I could be too. Ner ner ner ner.

[Huinesoron]

If you guys could be sadistic assholes who are willing to get someone else's hopes up by logging on and then doing nothing or putting your own needs and desires above someone else's, then I could be too. Ner ner ner ner.

Okay, so I need to address this one, because I think you're misunderstanding. Both my computers and my phone are permanently logged into the Downs, so yes, when I visit it's going to show up. I'm not going to start logging out - that just leads to lost passwords and frustration. (I don't think I know my password right now, actually.) Staying logged in is a really standard feature on the modern Web.

That visit is usually to check if any thing's happened - in one of the top two forums, in Fanfic or the birthday or party threads, or right here in the games. That's doing something. If something new is up, I read it; that's doing something too. If nothing new is up, then depending on mood and time, I might look at the Password to see if I've had any new ideas; that's doing something too.

But if I'm stumped, then I'm stumped, and will usually stay silent rather than saying anything. Sometimes I'll post thoughts just to try and get other people inspired, but usually I don't have thoughts. I'm not going to post just to say that, and I don't think you would either?

My view - not based on any rules, just my view - is that leaving people time to think or contribute is absolutely fine, even if iit means a day - even two! - of silence in a game. After that point, the password (/riddle/puzzle/whatever) creator should probably provide some sort of helping hand, because it's clear they've already beaten everyone who's playing. Not saying they have to! But in the interests of keeping the game going, it's probably a good idea.

My point is, nobody is reading the Downs just to get at you. We're really not!

hS

[Huinesoron]

To bring us back to a less fraught tangent: I think baobob puddi g now means 'a word or phrase someone is insisting is common use when you don't believe it is'. As in, "JRR bling, a slang term? That's just baobab pudding!" ;)

Interestingly, apparently baobab fruit has a pleasant citrussy flavour. It's harvested as a powder, and seems to be used in drinks. A pudding is not out of the question!

But is it found in Middle-earth? There's always a chance baobab made it by name into one of the old RP supplements, and even if not, I'd be stunned if they hadn't added Fantasy India. So King Elessar may have dined on baobab pudding!

hS

[Urwen]

Okay, so I need to address this one, because I think you're misunderstanding. Both my computers and my phone are permanently logged into the Downs, so yes, when I visit it's going to show up. I'm not going to start logging out - that just leads to lost passwords and frustration. (I don't think I know my password right now, actually.) Staying logged in is a really standard feature on the modern Web.

That visit is usually to check if any thing's happened - in one of the top two forums, in Fanfic or the birthday or party threads, or right here in the games. That's doing something. If something new is up, I read it; that's doing something too. If nothing new is up, then depending on mood and time, I might look at the Password to see if I've had any new ideas; that's doing something too.

But if I'm stumped, then I'm stumped, and will usually stay silent rather than saying anything. Sometimes I'll post thoughts just to try and get other people inspired, but usually I don't have thoughts. I'm not going to post just to say that, and I don't think you would either?

My view - not based on any rules, just my view - is that leaving people time to think or contribute is absolutely fine, even if iit means a day - even two! - of silence in a game. After that point, the password (/riddle/puzzle/whatever) creator should probably provide some sort of helping hand, because it's clear they've already beaten everyone who's playing. Not saying they have to! But in the interests of keeping the game going, it's probably a good idea.

My point is, nobody is reading the Downs just to get at you. We're really not!

hS


A day or two is fine, but 7-8 days or more is not. For instance, the Riddle thread is stagnant because no new clue has been posted yet.

P.S: Sorry about these. I was a bad mood because of certain issues, and you only worsened my bad mood. It's fine now.

[Huinesoron]

A day or two is fine, but 7-8 days or more is not. For instance, the Riddle thread is stagnant because no new clue has been posted yet.

... wait, are you saying the answer was actually Bombadil's jacket? :eek:

P.S: Sorry about these. I was a bad mood because of certain issues, and you only worsened my bad mood. It's fine now.

From my side, I'm happy to let it drop, but I speak only for myself.

hS

[Urwen]

... wait, are you saying the answer was actually Bombadil's jacket? :eek:

hS


I am. :cool:

[Galadriel55]

You know, I am not happy to let it drop quite yet. I wanna make a few things clear to Urwen, who has a thing against me checking the Downs and - how dare I! - not making a post on the thread she most likes at the moment. We've been through this many times before, both on the forums and over private message, and I am sick of this. So let me say this one last time.

If I have nothing to post, I will not post. I have no obligation to make contentless posts just to soothe your boredom.
Nobody has an obligation to post. Post if you want, don't post if you don't, unless you take upon yourself the duty of leading a game, in which case you have to respond within a reasonable timeframe. No one has to participate against their will.
If you wanna play with people, play by the common rules. Otherwise you'll end up playing alone. Both metaphorically and, in this particular case, literally.
As I have offered time and time again, if you need someone to talk to, please talk to me, to any of us. Yet when you're in a bad mood, instead of seeking help, you pick fights and throw tantrums. That ruins the games for everyone, yourself included.

I am so done with this. I give you respect, Urwen, as a person and a member of the forums, as a Tolkien fan with your own passions and opinions. I will continue treating you as such. But I will not respond to any more tantrum posts or PMs. I have a 5 year old at home who throws tantrums with ridiculous demands when he's in a bad mood, but as you're not 5 that excuse doesn't fly on such a frequent basis.




On a different note, here is the new password. I am quite fond of one of the clues, and I wonder if I made it too easy as a result. We'll see.


1. Not quite an ostritch kid. Both a name and a job description.
2. A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.
3. Lady sees herself in the mirror in a new rayment and takes a step back.
4. Take her, and a double vowel switch, and kill him with eastern invaders.
5. The First King's heir, and by another name the First Queen's jewel.
6. A King's descendant and a King's grandfather. Heal, and rid confusion!

And a special question just to illustrate the meaning of unfair / impossible-for-the-average-player-to-solve clues. The question does, in fact, have a very simple canonical answer (bonus points and virtual fireworks if one of you actually figures it out ;)).

Ам мешах ьлеш шиах аивихеш таабатах рахал шэах?

[Huinesoron]

#5: Is this NOLIMON, son and heir of Elros Tar-Minyatur, also known as Vardamir 'Jewel of the Starqueen'?

(As a professional amateur translator, you know I'll be taking a stab at the special clue.)

hS

[Urwen]

You know, I am not happy to let it drop quite yet. I wanna make a few things clear to Urwen, who has a thing against me checking the Downs and - how dare I! - not making a post on the thread she most likes at the moment. We've been through this many times before, both on the forums and over private message, and I am sick of this. So let me say this one last time.

If I have nothing to post, I will not post. I have no obligation to make contentless posts just to soothe your boredom.
Nobody has an obligation to post. Post if you want, don't post if you don't, unless you take upon yourself the duty of leading a game, in which case you have to respond within a reasonable timeframe. No one has to participate against their will.
If you wanna play with people, play by the common rules. Otherwise you'll end up playing alone. Both metaphorically and, in this particular case, literally.
As I have offered time and time again, if you need someone to talk to, please talk to me, to any of us. Yet when you're in a bad mood, instead of seeking help, you pick fights and throw tantrums. That ruins the games for everyone, yourself included.

I am so done with this. I give you respect, Urwen, as a person and a member of the forums, as a Tolkien fan with your own passions and opinions. I will continue treating you as such. But I will not respond to any more tantrum posts or PMs. I have a 5 year old at home who throws tantrums with ridiculous demands when he's in a bad mood, but as you're not 5 that excuse doesn't fly on such a frequent basis.


Well, if you want to stare at the home page - not any particular thread, just the home page - all the time, then it must amuse you immensely to stare at the forum categories all day long....

That, and if no one posts, those games die. Do you want those games to die? My bad, of course you do.

Well, I am done with this too. If you're gonna be game stallers, then so will I. I will keep that Telephone game stalled forever just because I don't feel like drawing the picture.

And this is where you'll swarm me because you're bored and want to continue the game. Of course it matters more when you're bored then when I am. Of course it matters more when I am stalling the game then when you are...

When I stall the games, it's unforgivable. When YOU stall them, it's perfectly kosher. >.>

When I ask you to respect me and do what I want and when I beg for hints, it's unforgivable and you won't do it. When you ask me to respect your wants and demand that I give you the answer, it's all perfectlly kosher and how dare I not do as you request?! >.>

That ain't gonna fly anymore. If you want me to treat you nicely, then quit it with the double-standards and hypocritical behavior.

Oh, and also, have fun driving newbies away. They will deem this place inactive because nobody can be bothered to make it active. They would drift away and this place would lose several Rolkien fans, all because no one could be bothered.

Like, if you expect me to keep this thread, the Riddle thread, the Bad Guy Trivia, the Family tree trivia and countless other threads alive by myself while the rest of you twiddle your thumbs, then fine. >.>

[Pervinca Took]

The Downs opens first for me when I click internet on my phone. That probably indicates I'm on it when I'm not, but in fact going somewhere else at once via the browser.

Anyway, new password ... wheeeee!!!

[Galadriel55]

1. Not quite an ostritch kid. Both a name and a job description.
2. A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.
3. Lady sees herself in the mirror in a new rayment and takes a step back.
4. Take her, and a double vowel switch, and kill him with eastern invaders.
5. NOLIMON: The First King's heir, and by another name the First Queen's jewel.
6. A King's descendant and a King's grandfather. Heal, and rid confusion!

[Huinesoron]

So for #2... it's possible I'm being a bit too Urwenish, but is this MAEGLIN? He was (arguably) the fulfillment of Eol's dreams, and Eol dwelt alone. He also attacked his cousin Idril during the Fall of Gondolin, and Idril was a barefoot Seer who (I think?) was seen as slightly crazy.

hS

[Galadriel55]

No to Maeglin. The clue is, to take a page from your book, both more and less literal than Maeglin is in your explanation. I will hold off on more specific hints for this clue at the moment but will give them if needed.

[Huinesoron]

No to Maeglin. The clue is, to take a page from your book, both more and less literal than Maeglin is in your explanation. I will hold off on more specific hints for this clue at the moment but will give them if needed.

Yeah, with loads more people still to chip in, and this only my first rough attempt, a vague hint is probably the way to go.

Not that it's given me much inspiration, but that's why it's a puzzle!

hS

[Galadriel55]

An elaboration on the vague hint: you are correct that "lonely one" is literal, but so is "eccentric" and "assaulter". The dream and the relationship ("cousins") are not.

[Pervinca Took]

6. DIRHAEL, Aragorn's maternal grandfather?

Heal + rid, (confused).

(Which can also produce Edrahil!)

[Galadriel55]

1. Not quite an ostritch kid. Both a name and a job description.
2. A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.
3. Lady sees herself in the mirror in a new rayment and takes a step back.
4. Take her, and a double vowel switch, and kill him with eastern invaders.
5. NOLIMON: The First King's heir, and by another name the First Queen's jewel.
6. DIRHAEL: A King's descendant and a King's grandfather. Heal, and rid confusion!


Now I'm mad I didn't see the Edrahil anagram, which could have made an awesome clue. :D

[Pervinca Took]

Hmmm. A baby ostrich is apparently just a chick.

Strider's name explains what he mostly seems to do, but I guess it's stretching it too far to call it an occupation ....

[Checks clue again]

Ah, it says job description, not occupation.

I guess STRIDER could describe the job of a Ranger?

But where would he (or the clue) almost keep a juvenile ostrich, I wonder?

My hunch is nowhere, and that I'm wrong. :D

[Huinesoron]

Tell you what, the Special Question gives some fantastic stuff through Google Translate. The most sane translations I can get are Kurdish (didn't even know it used Cyrillic) and Macedonian:

Ам мешах ьлеш шиах аивихеш таабатах рахал шэах?

Kurdish: Am I interfering with you?

Macedonian: Am I mixing you up with you?

There's enough agreement that мешах means something to do with stirring, mixing, muddling that I'm comfortable with it, but I think the rest is just not-enough-corpus error. If I add in a line break or two, GTranslate completely loses its mind - and identically in both languages:

Ам мешах
ьлеш шиах аивихеш таабатах рахал шэах?

I'm confused
What are you doing here?

-

Ам мешах ьлеш шиах аивихеш
таабатах рахал шэах?

But you mix it up, you shuffle it
What's so significant about a goat's head? ”

-

Ам мешах
ьлеш шиах аивихеш
таабатах рахал шэах?

I'm confused
You are a Shiite
What's so significant about a goat's head? ”

-

Ам мешах ьлеш шиах
аивихеш таабатах рахал шэах?

But you mix it up
Do you want to be happy?

So, we're looking for a confused Shi'ite with a goat's head who may or may not want to be happy. Oh, yeah, it's on the tip of my tongue--!

(Like I said: professional amateur translator. This one may be beyond me.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

So for #2... it's possible I'm being a bit too Urwenish, but is this MAEGLIN? He was (arguably) the fulfillment of Eol's dreams, and Eol dwelt alone. He also attacked his cousin Idril during the Fall of Gondolin, and Idril was a barefoot Seer who (I think?) was seen as slightly crazy.

hS

My first thought was Frodo, (surprise surprise!), and Bilbo.

But Frodo got attacked more than Bilbo did, and I don't remember my beloved dreamer dreaming of a troll, a giant spider or Smaug, (although he dreamed of quite a few other things). Or Gollum, who I think tried to attack Bilbo, or at least thought about it.

[Urwen]

3. Arwen?

[Pervinca Took]

That's a good one! Didn't see that.

[Huinesoron]

A sudden thought on #2: could 'eccentric cousin' be the Moon? 'Eccentric' as a literal term can apply to astronomical objects. I admit I can't see whose cousin it is, though, except in the sense that Tilion is 'cousin' to all the Maiar.

... actually, the use of 'dream' in a Maiarin association suggests OLORIN, though I can't tie him to the assault part.

#4: It sounds like we're looking for a woman whose name is two vowels away from someone killed by Easterners - which to my mind means either during the Nirnaeth and its aftermath, or during the Wainrider-Balchoth wars in Gondor. The latter actually looks less likely, because all the kings of Gondor who died there had stupidly long names, and Tolkien didn't have any women named 'Ramendacol' or such.

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. Not quite an ostritch kid. Both a name and a job description.
2. A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.
3. ARWEN: Lady sees herself in the mirror in a new rayment and takes a step back.
4. Take her, and a double vowel switch, and kill him with eastern invaders.
5. NOLIMON: The First King's heir, and by another name the First Queen's jewel.
6. DIRHAEL: A King's descendant and a King's grandfather. Heal, and rid confusion!



Tell you what, the Special Question gives some fantastic stuff through Google Translate. The most sane translations I can get are Kurdish (didn't even know it used Cyrillic) and Macedonian:



There's enough agreement that мешах means something to do with stirring, mixing, muddling that I'm comfortable with it, but I think the rest is just not-enough-corpus error. If I add in a line break or two, GTranslate completely loses its mind - and identically in both languages:



So, we're looking for a confused Shi'ite with a goat's head who may or may not want to be happy. Oh, yeah, it's on the tip of my tongue--!

(Like I said: professional amateur translator. This one may be beyond me.)

hS

You know what? This is actually hilariously a great description of the clue's intention. Especially "I am confused, what are you doing here?". :D

This actually gave me an idea for a (legitimate) password.

3. Arwen?

Indeed!

#4: It sounds like we're looking for a woman whose name is two vowels away from someone killed by Easterners - which to my mind means either during the Nirnaeth and its aftermath, or during the Wainrider-Balchoth wars in Gondor. The latter actually looks less likely, because all the kings of Gondor who died there had stupidly long names, and Tolkien didn't have any women named 'Ramendacol' or such.

hS

Barking up the wrong tree here. Try recombining the words in the clue. Your straight clue is off. One of your Easterling guesses is correct.

None of the guesses for #2 are correct. To help you out: the cousin's eccentricity refers to a specific line in the text, and it means exactly what you assume at first (odd). The lonely one never actually dreams of the answer, but they would looove to have met them. Final clue: you all know the answer by a more common name; it is the opposite of obscure, except for the alternative name use.

A no for #1 as well. Try some synonyms.

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe ELROND for the password?

And maybe initial letters for the rest, since the Arwen clue had 'take a step back' in it.

...

For Eastern invaders, I first thought maybe a short word for a Germanic people, such as HUNS. But now I think it's an invasion of two or more letter E's.

[Pervinca Took]

Hmmm. A baby ostrich is apparently just a chick.

Strider's name explains what he mostly seems to do, but I guess it's stretching it too far to call it an occupation ....

[Checks clue again]

Ah, it says job description, not occupation.

I guess STRIDER could describe the job of a Ranger?

But where would he (or the clue) almost keep a juvenile ostrich, I wonder?

My hunch is nowhere, and that I'm wrong. :D

Is my Strider guess wrong, G55? (For clue 1).

[Huinesoron]

Maybe ELROND for the password?

If so, the two possible 'name & job description's that come to mind for #1 are 'Envinyatar' and 'Eluchil', both fairly close to Elrond in the family tree. But since I can't do anything at all with the other half of the clue, I'm not willing to make them actual guesses.

... no, wait. "not quite an ostrich" could mean emu, and ELUCHIL ("Thingol's Heir", definitely a full-time job!) is nearly EMU CHILD. It would mean 'not quite' was doing triple duty, but...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Emu Child! That has made my day!

That should be a 70's rock band.

If emu is correct, 'nearly an ostrich' should be a Hall of Fame clue.

[Galadriel55]

1. ELUCHIL: Not quite an ostritch kid. Both a name and a job description.
2. L A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.
3. ARWEN: Lady sees herself in the mirror in a new rayment and takes a step back.
4. O Take her, and a double vowel switch, and kill him with eastern invaders.
5. NOLIMON: The First King's heir, and by another name the First Queen's jewel.
6. DIRHAEL: A King's descendant and a King's grandfather. Heal, and rid confusion!


:Merisu:


No to Strider. With regards to Easterlings, Huey had the right guys named in his guess, he just had the wrong straight clue.


Highlighting on your phone is a pain in the tuchas.


By the way, have you figured out the theme?

[Huinesoron]

'Emu child'. Good grief. It was my guess and I still barely believe it.


Highlighting on your phone is a pain in the tuchas.


I usually put the highlight codes in when I make the password - they're invisible so long as you leave them empty. :)


By the way, have you figured out the theme?

... hmm. Well, we have Elrond's granddad, his daughter, his nephew, and his... distant grand-nephew/daughter's grandfather-in-law. Other than all being within two generations of Himself, there's not a lot that obviously connects them. They all stood in kind of interesting places in various lines of succession, but not in any coherent way.

hS

[Galadriel55]

'Emu child'. Good grief. It was my guess and I still barely believe it.

I'm sorry? :Merisu:

I usually put the highlight codes in when I make the password - they're invisible so long as you leave them empty. :)

That's clever. Unfortunately the password was typed on my phone to begin with, so it would still have been agony now or agony later.

... hmm. Well, we have Elrond's granddad, his daughter, his nephew, and his... distant grand-nephew/daughter's grandfather-in-law. Other than all being within two generations of Himself, there's not a lot that obviously connects them. They all stood in kind of interesting places in various lines of succession, but not in any coherent way.

hS

Many can be said to be Elrond's family, but as you point out some are too distant to really qualify. The theme is related to his family but is broader. That might help look for the remaining clues, maybe?

[Huinesoron]

That's clever. Unfortunately the password was typed on my phone to begin with, so it would still have been agony now or agony later.

I've done that and hate it. :D Though they're still easier to copy and paste when you don't have to change out letters inside them along the way.

So far I've discovered that they all had daughters (not much of a link), and that Dirhael was apparently a seer (but while Arwen might have been, I can't imagine Dior was).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Nolimon was only nominally king and passed it on after a year, I think.

Elrond would have been heir to the High Kingship but was satisfied with Lord.

Arwen was a queen consort, not a ruling queen.

No, I don't know. ;)

[Galadriel55]

No, no, no. You hit upon the point that there is [extended] family there. The theme is more broad than any of the individuals, Elrond included. Not more narrow. ;)


For #4, remember this. Huey identified the correct Easterlings. The straight clue is NOT "her". Take each word separately in the clue and think if they actually refer to what you think they do. Extra hint: this one is not one of Elrond's closer relations.

Actually, to be more cryptically accurate, the clue should include one more thing. Re-worked, it reads:

Take her, and a double vowel switch first, and kill him with eastern invaders

[Pervinca Took]

No, no, no. You hit upon the point that there is [extended] family there. The theme is more broad than any of the individuals, Elrond included. Not more narrow. ;)


For #4, remember this. Huey identified the correct Easterlings. The straight clue is NOT "her". Take each word separately in the clue and think if they actually refer to what you think they do. Extra hint: this one is not one of Elrond's closer relations.

Actually, to be more cryptically accurate, the clue should include one more thing. Re-worked, it reads:

Take her, and a double vowel switch first, and kill him with eastern invaders

Wainrider-Balchoth wars points to ONDOHER.

HER, double O ... but ND?

Lost, because I thought 'her' was a short name, like Anne, and we were supposed to change the vowels in it. This shifts them to the front, though, (before the 'girl,' I mean).

...

Oh! It's AND A, and we switch the two vowels.

[Galadriel55]

1. ELUCHIL: Not quite an ostritch kid. Both a name and a job description.
2. L A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.
3. ARWEN: Lady sees herself in the mirror in a new rayment and takes a step back.
4. ONDOHER: Take her, and a double vowel switch, and kill him with eastern invaders.
5. NOLIMON: The First King's heir, and by another name the First Queen's jewel.
6. DIRHAEL: A King's descendant and a King's grandfather. Heal, and rid confusion!

Indeed! HER + AND A, with the As swapped for the O's.


For the last clue, all elements are found in Book 1. This one you would think of as Elrond's family. Pervinca, I think you'll like this one when it comes to you.

[Pervinca Took]

Luthien is the only person close enough to Elrond by kin that I can think of, but I can't find any of the elements, even if I add Tinuviel.

[Galadriel55]

As mentioned before, this is a rare name of a common character. The name is mentioned in Book 1, as is the lonely one, and the eccentric cousin, and the assault. The clue is a play on words of sorts.

Perhaps it might be easier to work backwards, knowing that this is a major character who is reasonably close to Elrond.

[Pervinca Took]

Sorry, I had forgotten the 'better known by another name' aspect.

Assault points to Celebrian, but she's more than a little close to Elrond, and with no namesakes that I can find.

Maybe one of Elrond's fosterers? Or maybe Elwing had another name. I need to look a few people up.

Do you mean Book 1 as in up to Flight to the Ford, or Book 1 as in FOTR?

[Huinesoron]

Were it not that I can't remember anyone being attacked with a leg of lamb, I would suggest 'Longshanks'.

Okay, can I find a reason? The clue is:

A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.

& G55's additional hints say:

you are correct that "lonely one" is literal, but so is "eccentric" and "assaulter". The dream and the relationship ("cousins") are not.

To help you out: the cousin's eccentricity refers to a specific line in the text, and it means exactly what you assume at first (odd). The lonely one never actually dreams of the answer, but they would looove to have met them. Final clue: you all know the answer by a more common name; it is the opposite of obscure, except for the alternative name use.

The name is mentioned in Book 1, as is the lonely one, and the eccentric cousin, and the assault. The clue is a play on words of sorts.

'Eccentric cousin' makes me maybe think of Radagast? But I don't believe Radagast gets assaulted, and the assault is literal. Could there be Hobbits involved in the clue (though not the answer)? Frodo is definitely eccentric (you're not mad if you're rich), and Aragorn kind of assaults him in Bree? This would make the Lonely One another Hobbit who would have loved to meet a Ranger, but isn't strictly a cousin of Frodo. I guess Fatty Bolger would have been very grateful for a rescue when the Nazgul were coming?

Okay, there we go; a justification. LONGSHANKS. :D

hS

[Pervinca Took]

(Now kicking myself! Thought I'd been through all his names!) :D

Hobbits probably dream of lamb shanks sometimes - and they would be long ones because that = more dinner.

Aragorn is lonely because he can't marry Arwen until he is king.

L A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.

Maybe 'lonely one' means just take one letter from 'lonely.'

Hang on - does the troll get assaulted by the shank or the shin of the singer's Nuncle Tim's limb in Sam's troll song?

(Can't do the ONG or the dream bit, though).

[Huinesoron]

This is still all feeling very tenuous, but if it's not this I'm going to have to fall back on Lindor - er, Lindir - and the famous Mad Cousin Chocolate Attacks (https://www.lindt.co.uk/shop/our-brands/lindor).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Yeah, I thought of him, as he's one of Elrond's household, but I couldn't find the elements. ;)

But then, I don't know the Sindarin for chocolate-smith. :) Presumably a happy place like Rivendell has one, though!

[Galadriel55]

Check this out:

Troll sat alone on his seat of stone,
And munched and mumbled a bare old bone.

For a couple o' pins,' says Troll, and grins,
'I'll eat thee too, and gnaw thy shins.
A bit o' fresh meal will go down sweet!


Strider walked forward unconcernedly. 'Get up, old stone!' he said, and broke his stick upon the stooping troll.

In any case you might have noticed that one of them has an old bird's nest behind his ear. That would be a most unusual ornament for a live troll!'

:D

Theme: the Line of Luthien

1. ELUCHIL: Not quite an ostritch kid. Both a name and a job description.
2. LONGSHAKNS: A lonely one's dream, and his eccentric cousin's assaulter.
3. ARWEN: Lady sees herself in the mirror in a new rayment and takes a step back.
4. ONDOHER: Take her, and a double vowel switch, and kill him with eastern invaders.
5. NOLIMON: The First King's heir, and by another name the First Queen's jewel.
6. DIRHAEL: A King's descendant and a King's grandfather. Heal, and rid confusion!

It started out as Elrond's family, but then I was at loss for letters and would jave had to do a lot of back stepping. So it became Elrond's extended family, ie the line of Luthien.


Over to Pervinca!

[Pervinca Took]

Great password, but what is the dream?

[Huinesoron]

Ohhh! I'd forgotten Aragorn was a troll-botherer in his own right. Very nice (and nice password as a whole, G55)!

But then, I don't know the Sindarin for chocolate-smith. :) Presumably a happy place like Rivendell has one, though!

Well! Although Tolkien inexplicably didn't provide a word for 'chocolate', we do know that the Eldar were willing to adopt words from foreign languages phoentically. Khuzdul "Khazad" became "Casar" in Quenya and "Cadhad" in Sindarin, for instance.

So when they ran into the Nahuatl word "xocolātl", I think it's plausible that Quenya-speaking elves would have adapted it, too. My efforts suggest "Hyacola" as a Q. transcription; stick 'smith' (-tamo, -tano) on the end and you find the Quenya word "*Hyacolatan".

Sindarin comes out pretty similar: I make the drink itself "Hocolaut". 'Smith' is tân, which mutates to -dan, giving us the nice simple "Hocolaudan" for 'Chocolate-smith'.

Finally, for good measure, I believe the plural would be "Heceloedain", though there's a possibility they would only pluralise the 'smith' element: "Hocolaudain".

hS

[Galadriel55]

Great password, but what is the dream?

I thought the Troll who sat alone would love "long shanks". Did I overcomplicate it?

[Pervinca Took]

Oh - he dreamed of them because he wanted to eat them? Or do you mean the lonely troll who befriended Perry-The-Winkle?

...

Oh, sorry. It says he sat alone in the first verse. It's the shank-chewing one.

I did guess the password, and I have plenty of new ones, but Huinesoron seemed to do a lot of the work. Huey, do you want to do one, or shall I go ahead?

[Galadriel55]

By the way, the answer to the impossible clue is Frodo. Which would have been very easy had I told you that it is hebrew words, written with Russian letters, with each word spelled backwards. :D :p

[Pervinca Took]

Ah! If each word is spelled backwards, what is the phrase that describes him?

[Huinesoron]

I did guess the password, and I have plenty of new ones, but Huinesoron seemed to do a lot of the work. Huey, do you want to do one, or shall I go ahead?

I'm happy for you to take it - I don't have any written, and your Longshanks explanation got closer to the mark than mine.

By the way, the answer to the impossible clue is Frodo. Which would have been very easy had I told you that it is hebrew words, written with Russian letters, with each word spelled backwards.

Oh, yeah, that would've been my next guess... :rolleyes: I think a double transliteration is beyond me, sadly; my Cyrillic>Latin transcription came out as:

"Am meshakh ’lesh shiakh aivikhesh taabatakh rakhal shéakh?"

With each word reversed, that's:

"Ma khashem shel' khaish shekhivia khatabaat lakhar khaesh?"

Which Google will cheerfully transcribe into Hebrew letters as:

"מ כאשם של כאיש שהכיביה כאתבעת לכער כאיש"

And then even more cheerfully translate as:

"M as the fault of a man who was extinguished as a suitor for a man."

So unless you were talking about how Frodo's budding romance with Sam was cut off by his departure for the Havens... ;)

hS

[Galadriel55]

That's why I said the clue is pretty much impossible. Though - there is at least one Downer who could have solved it, without much translate use, given enough effort.

מה השם של האיש שהביא הטבעת להר האש
= what is the name of the guy who brought the Ring to the Mountain of Fire. You can check it against google translate, see if I've remembered how to spell these words correctly.

Anyways, that was for fun and as an illustration for why clues should be aimed at the average Downer. :)

[Pervinca Took]

Totally above my head - but once solved, very close to my heart. ;)

Good password! Hope you enjoy this one:

1. Battles are now mostly internal. Except for this one.
2. It reeled, it belched; the Ring was squelched.
3. Describes the Third Age, by the final sentence.
4. As foretold, the crownless becomes it. But add a sleepy town and end up here? Sounds like it!
5. Wrecker, starting on igloo and/or its library? All very confused. Mentioned in lineage, to stake a claim.
6. He goes where they might call him this? Perhaps unlikely, perhaps not – but an apocryphal letter will thus address his namesake.

[Huinesoron]

#6: "Apocryphal letter" immediately brings the King's Letter to mind (well, I read it only a couple of weeks ago). All three of the non-Sam hobbits of the Fellowship have namesakes therein, but the only one who's going somewhere notable is Frodo, whose namesake is addressed as IORHAEL. (And indeed, he could well be expected to use the Sindarin form in Aman.)

Also, thinking about it, "or hail" is a decent calque on "might call him".

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Battles are now mostly internal. Except for this one.
2. It reeled, it belched; the Ring was squelched.
3. Describes the Third Age, by the final sentence.
4. As foretold, the crownless becomes it. But add a sleepy town and end up here? Sounds like it!
5. Wrecker, starting on igloo and/or its library? All very confused. Mentioned in lineage, to stake a claim.
IORHAEL: He goes where they might call him this? Perhaps unlikely, perhaps not – but an apocryphal letter will thus address his namesake.

Indeed. Although the remaining three go to Gondor and/or Rohan again in their lifetimes, (two of them to see out their final days), and probably get called Holdwine, Ernil i Pheriannath, etc. ;)

'Perhaps unlikely, perhaps not' is because I wasn't sure if in Aman they would be more likely to speak Quenya and call him Daur.

I wonder how they knew the meanings and hence translations of Frodo and Samwise's names on the Field of Cormallen? Through Aragorn and Legolas, I suppose. They are hailed as 'Daur' and 'Berhael,' but not as their Sindarin names. Or hang on, is Berhael Sindarin? So why a Quenya name and a Sindarin one in the same sentence?

Huinesoron, I never thought of 'or hail!'

[Huinesoron]

I wonder how they knew the meanings and hence translations of Frodo and Samwise's names on the Field of Cormallen? Through Aragorn and Legolas, I suppose. They are hailed as 'Daur' and 'Berhael,' but not as their Sindarin names. Or hang on, is Berhael Sindarin? So why a Quenya name and a Sindarin one in the same sentence?

I don't think Daur is Quenya, actually. I'm pretty sure Q. doesn't use an initial D - come to think of it, since there are two of them in my name, I know for sure that it doesn't even have a letter D; 'ando' is read as ND (and definitely won't start a word). So they're both Sindarin ('Berhael' is just Perhael with a mutated first letter; Quenya doesn't use B either!)

To make a wild guess: were there Rohirrim at Cormallen? If so, they probably understood the old Hobbitish names, because they're closely related to their own language. 'Sam-wise' might even be a current idiom in Rohan!

(Regardless of which, if Frodo landed on Tol Eressea, they probably did speak Sindarin; the returning Noldor had all adopted it in Beleriand, and the Sindar were a huge proportion of the returning population.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Of course - the Rohirrim! Nice one.

What does Huinesoron mean, by the way?

[Huinesoron]

Of course - the Rohirrim! Nice one.

What does Huinesoron mean, by the way?

"Shadow/gloom" + "Eagle", usually glossed "Eagleshade" these days, both in Quenya. I pulled both words straight from the Silm index in late 2002 (for an email address to discuss the Two Towers movie with, actually), and it's kind of stuck.

(I promise I'll get back on password-topic tomorrow...!)

hS <-- comes from the relative sizes of the tengwar

[Pervinca Took]

"Shadow/gloom" + "Eagle", usually glossed "Eagleshade" these days, both in Quenya. I pulled both words straight from the Silm index in late 2002 (for an email address to discuss the Two Towers movie with, actually), and it's kind of stuck.

(I promise I'll get back on password-topic tomorrow...!)

hS <-- comes from the relative sizes of the tengwar

Do you mean h is smaller than s in Tengwar?

I looked up DAUR and you're right. I think it has a Quenya cognate, but I guess mist Sindarin words do? And it seems to mean wise, not old.

...

From Tolkien Gateway:

'When analyzing the song of praise, Tolkien derived*Daur*from*dāra*"wise" with a*Quenya*form*tāra. This replaces an earlier version from*ndāra*with*Quenya*nāra. He also queried the possibility of*daur*coming from lenition of base*t.[8]'

[Huinesoron]

Do you mean h is smaller than s in Tengwar?

Officially no, but when I used Tengwar for a signature I put the hyarmen inside the hoop of the silma (which I think was upside-down anyway).

I looked up DAUR and you're right. I think it has a Quenya cognate, but I guess mist Sindarin words do? And it seems to mean wise, not old.

...

From Tolkien Gateway:

'When analyzing the song of praise, Tolkien derived*Daur*from*dāra*"wise" with a*Quenya*form*tāra. This replaces an earlier version from*ndāra*with*Quenya*nāra. He also queried the possibility of*daur*coming from lenition of base*t.[8]'

Well, the Gateway derives 'Frodo' from 'fród = wise by experience', so old-wise is a fuller translation, I guess? But for an off-the-cuff rendering, just 'wise' isn't too bad.

Oh, right, password! For #4, it looks like the first element is 'king'; for a placename with a 'sleepy town' element, how about KING'S NORBURY?

I love the feel of these clues - #3 especially - even if I don't have any thoughts on them as yet. :)

hS

[Urwen]

5 is IGLOO RUINER which for some reason reminds me of Glirhuin....Mafia4ever

[Pervinca Took]

King's Norbury is right ... sorry, have a work Zoom about to start, so will put it in later.

Glirhuin the Igloo Ruiner is an interesting image! Not the answer, though - sorry.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Battles are now mostly internal. Except for this one.
2. It reeled, it belched; the Ring was squelched.
3. Describes the Third Age, by the final sentence.
KINGS' NORBURY: As foretold, the crownless becomes it. But add a sleepy town and end up here? Sounds like it!
5. Wrecker, starting on igloo and/or its library? All very confused. Mentioned in lineage, to stake a claim.
IORHAEL: He goes where they might call him this? Perhaps unlikely, perhaps not – but an apocryphal letter will thus address his namesake.

Yes!

KING + SNOR(E)BURY (not AFAIAA also a soporific cousin of the strawberry, although who knows? Strider did say there was berry, root and herb in the wild!)

(I am now picturing temporary Noldorin igloos on the Helcaraxe ....)

[Urwen]

3. Homely? As in 'I am home'. Or Shire, for the same reason?

[Pervinca Took]

Nice ideas, but was the Third Age homely?

The key is 'by the final sentence.'

[Urwen]

And final sentence of the third age is 'I am home'. or 'Well, I am home." Check Lotr if you don't believe me.

[Pervinca Took]

What describes? An adjective, often.

I didn't mean it's in the final sentence.

I mean that by the final sentence, this word describes the Third Age.

...

The hints I gave in my last clue, and the clue itself, say by, not in.

[Urwen]

And what is described by the last sentence? The Shire.

[Huinesoron]

And final sentence of the third age is 'I am home'. or 'Well, I am home." Check Lotr if you don't believe me.

FYI, the English text reads "Well, I'm back." Same meaning, obviously. :)

What describes? An adjective, often.

I didn't mean it's in the final sentence.

I mean that by the final sentence, this word describes the Third Age.

...

The hint I gave in my last clue, and the clue itself, say by, not in.

Um... OVER? PAST? I'm having trouble spotting a cryptic clue - 'by' could indicate 'next to', but I don't see a word like either of these anywhere near the last sentence.

Come to think, the Third Age was years past by the end of the book. ... HISTORY?

hS

[Huinesoron]

... wait. Hang on.

#1: BYWATER, the last battle of the War of the Ring, and specifically named for a place outside.

#2: ORODRUIN, because... it did. That's just a poetic(?) description of an eruption.

#3: OVER, because it begins with O, which means I can propose:

Password: BOOK VI, where all these things are found.

(The only reason I'm doubtful is that 'Iorhael' itself isn't in Book 6 at all... but I'll try it anyway.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

BYWATER: Battles are now mostly internal. Except for this one.
ORODRUIN: It reeled, it belched; the Ring was squelched.
OVER: Describes the Third Age, by the final sentence.
KINGS' NORBURY: As foretold, the crownless becomes it. But add a sleepy town and end up here? Sounds like it!

V: Wrecker, starting on igloo and/or its library? All very confused. Mentioned in lineage, to stake a claim.
IORHAEL: He goes where they might call him this? Perhaps unlikely, perhaps not – but an apocryphal letter will thus address his namesake.

Frodo is in Book VI, and so is his 'going' to the 'where' of the clue. That'll do, surely? I think I've probably used Incanus or Envinyatar, etc, in books where they weren't specifically called that or said to be sometimes called that.

'By' is 'by the time of the last sentence,' just as 'by November' is 'by the time it's November.'

Tolkien actually says Orodruin reeled. And belched. It's a very rude volcano!

And Norbury of the Kings is mentioned to Barliman by Gandalf on the way home, (well, home for the hobbits). I used the slightly different form because I needed the K. Originally, though, the answer was just KING and the clue only consisted of the first sentence - which still worked for Book VI.

I thought Orodruin would be the first clue to fall!

One to go!

[Huinesoron]

Frodo is in Book VI. That'll do, surely? I think I've probably used Incanus or Envinyatar, etc, in books where they weren't specifically called that or said to be sometimes called that.

It'll do just fine - I was just nursing a fear that the whole thing might be based on the Epilogue somehow! :)

hS

[Urwen]

The last one is Valandil (Vandal+I+L)

[Pervinca Took]

BYWATER: Battles are now mostly internal. Except for this one.
ORODRUIN: It reeled, it belched; the Ring was squelched.
OVER: Describes the Third Age, by the final sentence.
KINGS' NORBURY: As foretold, the crownless becomes it. But add a sleepy town and end up here? Sounds like it!

VALANDIL: Wrecker, starting on igloo and/or its library? All very confused. Mentioned in lineage, to stake a claim.
IORHAEL: He goes where they might call him this? Perhaps unlikely, perhaps not – but an apocryphal letter will thus address his namesake.

And the where of the clue is where he'd be maybe called Iorhael, so the he is Frodo anyway. ;)

Valandil indeed - taking IL initials either from 'its' and 'library' or from 'igloo' and 'library.' Plus VANDAL, of course.

I confess that it's the memory of Andrew Seear's Faramir saying 'Elessar of the line of Valandil' in the crowning scene that led me to choose the answer for V. ;)

Well done, both, and over to Huinesoron.

You said you liked these clues, hS. Would it be retchingly soppy to say that it's because I love Frodo so much that the clues largely based around his swan-song were made with especial care and affection? :)

[Urwen]

You say so, yet you find my love for Maeglin misplaced.

[Huinesoron]

You say so, yet you find my love for Maeglin misplaced.

Well, the thing about Frodo is that it's not necessary to concoct wild theories to make him not a villain... ;)

Um, I had an idea for a password, I'm sure I did. Now I just have to remember it...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I don't judge you for loving Maeglin.

I wonder if anyone's ever had a crush on Gollum? That WOULD be a bit worrying!

[Urwen]

I don't judge you for loving Maeglin.

I wonder if anyone's ever had a crush on Gollum? That WOULD be a bit worrying!


Well....


https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a479da7d-7b8e-486f-94ae-d323d88f50ea/d6hsrk4-6ee748f2-85f9-4235-bfa9-b3752e0eb20d.jpg/v1/fill/w_400,h_600,q_75,strp/smeagol_and_deagol_by_kailie2122_d6hsrk4-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI 1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNh NWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMT g4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7 ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NjAwIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYTQ3OWRhN2 QtN2I4ZS00ODZmLTk0YWUtZDMyM2Q4OGY1MGVhXC9kNmhzcms0 LTZlZTc0OGYyLTg1ZjktNDIzNS1iZmE5LWIzNzUyZTBlYjIwZC 5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NDAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpz ZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.KEUpWKxOI5732r bckPJ6gnbDGeJNdB0L_4sNCoNzC2c

Would it really?

[Pervinca Took]

Once he became Gollum, yes. Maybe not while he was still Pre-Ring Smeagol.

[Galadriel55]

One of my friends really likes Gollum, but only as a character. For his complexity, not his charming manners. ;) She keeps asking me what I think of him, but TBH I appreciated the complexity but was never a fan of the Gollum chapters...

[Pervinca Took]

I think Gollum is a brilliant character. Probably my second favourite, after Frodo, but definitely NOT in a crush kind of way! :eek

I greatly admire them both as literary creations. I think Frodo is complex too, in a different way, and certainly a lot deeper than Gollum.

Their struggles with the Ring - both of them - are compelling - and Frodo's nobility of character is perhaps at its most beautiful when he is dealing with Gollum. As is his wisdom.

[Galadriel55]

Their struggles with the Ring - both of them - are compelling - and Frodo's nobility of character is perhaps at its most beautiful when he is dealing with Gollum. As is his wisdom.

Oh absolutely! Though my favourite is his dealing with Saruman. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

Oh absolutely! Though my favourite is his dealing with Saruman. ;)

Oooohh, yes. Good choice. Frodo is so broken by then. Some think he spares Saruman partly out of cruelty, but I don't ... (well, perhaps just a touch - it is more successful revenge than death - but then is it? - Saruman's death is terrible, and removes all chance of redemption, reducing him to a maimed and powerless spirit). I just don't think Frodo feels he can justify killing Saruman, because the Ring took him too, (finally), and his own experience taught him definitively that dealing out death in 'justice' was not a thing to be done 'eagerly,' (Gandalf's words, more or less).

Huey, regarding OVER, the Third Age is only JUST over by 'I am back.' Not years over ... that would be the version with the Epilogue in - not the Book VI in the published LOTR. ;)

Also, I wasn't particularly thinking of Bywater being an outdoor place. Just that the major 'physical, external' battles were over bar that one, and people were mostly battling with grief and loss if they had lost loved ones in the war, and with what would now be called PTSD.

[Huinesoron]

Huey, regarding OVER, the Third Age is only JUST over by 'I am back.' Not years over ... that would be the version with the Epilogue in - not the Book VI in the published LOTR. ;)

... did the Third Age seriously not end for two years after the Ring was destroyed? I will never understand Gondorian timekeeping. :rolleyes: And the Second continues blithely on through the literal changing of the world, but ends as soon as some elf dude gets squished. Why do I suspect that if we had more detailed accounts, we'd find the First Age 'officially' ended two years before Beleriand sank, because Finarfin had a cup of tea...?

Anyway! I've gone a bit strange for this password; not sure whether it'll be easier or harder as a result.

1. - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. - What manner of hell is this?
4. - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
5. - What we speak, and what by
6. - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
8. - What the first children saw by
9. - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
10. - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
13. - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
14. - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Kath]

For 14 where the stars are strange - Harad?

[Huinesoron]

For 14 where the stars are strange - Harad?

Less specific than that. :)

For the new page:

1. - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. - What manner of hell is this?
4. - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
5. - What we speak, and what by
6. - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
8. - What the first children saw by
9. - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
10. - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
13. - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
14. - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Well, in the Tale of Years in the Appendices, it says 'passing of the Ringbearers and end of the Third Age.' That's what I've always assumed to be the indicator.

They have 25th March as New Year's Day in Gondor, though, once the Ring is destroyed. Confusing, eh?

...

Finarfin DOES sound like someone who would drink tea, you know. ;) Fingolfin is more the lager chap, I'd say. Feanor probably had a lethal home-brew of his own making.

[Huinesoron]

Well, in the Tale of Years in the Appendices, it says 'passing of the Ringbearers and end of the Third Age.' That's what I've always assumed to be the indicator.

They have 25th March as New Year's Day in Gondor, though, once the Ring is destroyed. Confusung, eh?

Don't worry - once I'd checked, I wasn't expressing disbelief at you so much as at Gondor. (Though apparently the Shire manages to start the Fourth Age in a different year to the rest of the world - blasted Hobbits!)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I know. ;) No worries.

Isn't 8 stars? (Above Cuivienen).

4. Idril and Tuor ... Earendil ... Elros ... Aragorn.

Or is it the other Minas Tirith, perhaps ... the First Age one?

[Huinesoron]

Finarfin DOES sound like someone who would drink tea, you know. ;) Fingolfin is more the lager chap, I'd say. Feanor probably had a lethal home-brew of his own making.

This is dangerously plausible.

I know. ;) No worries.

Isn't 8 stars? (Above Cuivienen).

I don't think you can "see by stars", but if you could be fractionally more specific...?

4. Idril and Tuor ... Earendil ... Elros ... Aragorn.

Or is it the other Minas Tirith, perhaps ... the First Age one?

It's the Third Age one, but this is the wrong lineage. :)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Starlight?

[Huinesoron]

Starlight?

There it is. :)

1. - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. - What manner of hell is this?
4. - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
5. - What we speak, and what by
6. - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
9. - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
10. - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
13. - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
14. - Where the stars are strange

(I'll probably become less picky as time wears on, but I was confident you'd get it with a prompting.)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Lineage:

Elwe - Luthien - Dior - Elwing - Elros - ... - Aragorn?

[Pervinca Took]

5. QUENYA, which means 'language?'

[Huinesoron]

Lineage:

Elwe - Luthien - Dior - Elwing - Elros - ... - Aragorn?

Nooowhere near the right lineage.

5. QUENYA, which means 'language?'

You're closer with 'language' than 'Quenya'; I draw your attention to that very flexible word 'by'.

hS

[Urwen]

Maybe something to do with Ingwe?

[Huinesoron]

Maybe something to do with Ingwe?

Possibly even further off.

I was being very precise with both the start and end points of the lineage in question.

hS

[Urwen]

Oh, wait. Telperion to White Tree of Gondor?

[Huinesoron]

Oh, wait. Telperion to White Tree of Gondor?

Spot on (though I wouldn't count Telperion, personally: Galathilion was made in his image, not an actual descendent). Which makes the answer:

1. - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
5. - What we speak, and what by
6. - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
9. - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
10. - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
13. - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
14. - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Urwen]

11. Eye (six of his titles contain 'eye' and I counted)

[Huinesoron]

11. Eye (six of his titles contain 'eye' and I counted)

I am impressed, but it isn't the answer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Creation? (The Ainur).

Loving Urwen's 'eye' guess!

[Pervinca Took]

5. Tongues or words, possibly in elvish?

[Pervinca Took]

Sorry: AINULINDALE for 1, which I think means creation?

(Vernacular).

[Pervinca Took]

For 14 where the stars are strange - Harad?

The SOUTH?

Or Sunlands?

[Huinesoron]

1. Creation? (The Ainur).

Oh, I think we can be more specific than that. :) But yes, that's the Song in question. (The Ainulindale is what they sang, not what they sang about.)

5. Tongues or words, possibly in elvish?

Correct. You use your tongue to speak your tongue.

EDIT:

The SOUTH?

Or Sunlands?

Correct!

1. - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
6. - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
9. - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
10. - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
13. - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Golden treasure:

Gold rinG ?

Well, it's between two GG's!

[Pervinca Took]

1. ARDA? Or world?

[Pervinca Took]

Unless golden treasure is EGG, as in Bilbo's riddle. GG and an E from ... somewhere ... but written differently, (ie jumbled).

Or YOLK, the golden treasure within the same 'riddle egg' - the YOKE that might be between two horses, written differently?

Ot does it occur between the 'thirty white horses' riddle and another riddle that maybe mentions a horse in one of the lines? (Although I don't think there is one).

[Pervinca Took]

10. Spirit or fea? (Sent into the One Ring).

[Huinesoron]

Golden treasure:

Gold rinG ?

Well, it's between two GG's!

-_-

1. ARDA? Or world?

WORLD it is.

Unless golden treasure is EGG, as in Bilbo's riddle. GG and an E from ... somewhere ... but written differently, (ie jumbled).

Or YOLK, the golden treasure within the same 'riddle egg' - the YOKE that might be between two horses, written differently?

Ot does it occur between the 'thirty white horses' riddle and another riddle that maybe mentions a horse in one of the lines? (Although I don't think there is one).

And YOKE/YOLK is correct (the golden treasure is in the egg, per the riddle.)

10. Spirit or fea? (Sent into the One Ring).

This one is not correct, though very sneaky.

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
6. - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
10. - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
13. - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Is 13 TREES - Telperion and Laurelin, 'replaced' once to my knowledge by unmagical versions - were they 'replaced' again? (Very weighty inverted commas).

I know we've had TREE already, but there could be a cunning plan to have another, unexpected, arboreous clue! :D

...

More treeishness:

2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of

HELM. 75% of warriors had one.

3/4 of HELM is ELM.

3/4 of the Ents in the battle at Helm's Deep were spirits who had taken the bodies of ELMS as opposed to other trees.

I tried ….

[Huinesoron]

Is 13 TREES - Telperion and Laurelin, 'replaced' once to my knowledge by unmagical versions - were they 'replaced' again? (Very weighty inverted commas).

I know we've had TREE already, but there could be a cunning plan to have another, unexpected, arboreous clue! :D

It is not, but you're sort of in the right concept-space. How were the Two Trees replaced?

More treeishness:

2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of

HELM. 75% of warriors had one.

3/4 of HELM is ELM.

3/4 of the Ents in the battle at Helm's Deep were spirits who had taken the bodies of ELMS as opposed to other trees.

I tried ….

o.O Er... no. Though you're entirely right that the first 3/4 indicates that the clause is providing three quarters of the word for you.

I struggled a bit with this one; if it's any help, I wanted to name Feanor and Turin as relevant warriors, but wasn't sure they were really useful.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

OK ... could 13 be LIGHTS? The Lamps of the Valar, replaced by the Two Trees, replaced by the Sun and Moon?

I think you're being over-generous regarding my grasp of the 3/4 aspect in clue 2!

[Galadriel55]

A bit of a random guess for 6, but - East Wind?

Also, 10. MOUTH? ^.^

[Huinesoron]

OK ... could 13 be LIGHTS? The Lamps of the Valar, replaced by the Two Trees, replaced by the Sun and Moon?

Precisely, and you said the right word in there too.

A bit of a random guess for 6, but - East Wind?

Ooooh, I want to quibble this, but... EAST is the answer, with the East Wind being its breath.

Also, 10. MOUTH? ^.^

Yep! :D

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

Good grief, only five to go already?

hS

[Galadriel55]

Good grief, only five to go already?

Yeah, but they are the ones that are harder to crack. ;)

I am beating my head over 11. The only answer that gets triggered by 6 is "Gollum's teeth". I've gone over various countable things that Sauron could have six of, down to "letters in a name" and other silly things. Could he have had 6 forms/shapes/bodies? I can't list that many *known* ones, and I guess they aren't entirely countable as he could change his shape at will in his early days and who knows how many he went through.

I have a feeling that "by another title" is cue for a punny answer based on his other names...

[Urwen]

I can help make the clues easier. The password is 'Written symbols'.

[Huinesoron]

Yeah, but they are the ones that are harder to crack. ;)

I am beating my head over 11. The only answer that gets triggered by 6 is "Gollum's teeth". I've gone over various countable things that Sauron could have six of, down to "letters in a name" and other silly things. Could he have had 6 forms/shapes/bodies? I can't list that many *known* ones, and I guess they aren't entirely countable as he could change his shape at will in his early days and who knows how many he went through.

I have a feeling that "by another title" is cue for a punny answer based on his other names...

Ha, no, nothing to do with teeth. I think it kind of is a punny question, and is based on one of Sauron's titles, just like it says.

I can help make the clues easier. The password is 'Written symbols'.

It is indeed! Very good. (Now, can you figure out why?)

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. I - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
7. N - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. B - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Did Feanor write an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use symbols of these things because they had the right initials? :D

(Lame even by my standards).

[Huinesoron]

Did Feanor write an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use symbols of these things because they had the right initials? :D

(Lame even by my standards).

Um... kind of... pretty much yeah?

hS

[Urwen]

11. The Biggest (with his Big Bosses; I presume he had six of those.)

[Pervinca Took]

11. BODIES?

Vampire, snake, another animal I can't remember, Annatar, real Sauron pre- Akallabeth, rebuilt but maimed body in the Third Age?

[Huinesoron]

11. The Biggest (with his Big Bosses; I presume he had six of those.)

11. BODIES?

Vampire, snake, another animal I can't remember, Annatar, real Sauron pre- Akallabeth, rebuilt but maimed body in the Third Age?

No and no. I think this is the only clue which even comes close to cryptic.

hS

[Urwen]

7. Name.

Isn't that right, big bro? :D ;)

[Huinesoron]

7. Name.

Isn't that right, big bro? :D ;)

Certain sons of Hurin who shall remain nameless (as if!) we're definitely on my mind with that clue.

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. I - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. B - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

R ... I don't know. Rickets? Rice Krispies? Retribution? Could be anything! :D

[Urwen]

Certain sons of Hurin who shall remain nameless (as if!) we're definitely on my mind with that clue.

hS

I didn't know he had more than one. I knew dad was hiding something, but the fact he had multiple sons never crossed my mind. Where are the rest of them? I wanna meet the rest of my brothers! :cool:

[Huinesoron]

R ... I don't know. Rickets? Rice Krispies? Retribution? Could be anything! :D

Retribution is closest, but from the theme there is literally only one thing it could be. That's why you got stuck with a kind of rubbish clue for R, in fact.

I didn't know he had more than one. I knew dad was hiding something, but the fact he had multiple sons never crossed my mind. Where are the rest of them? I wanna meet the rest of my brothers! :cool:

Died of the plague (wait, too soon?).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Revenge?

Sauron, or rather Mairon, couldn't have had six BROTHERS in the mind of Eru, could he?

[Huinesoron]

Revenge?

Not that close to retribution (though I think 'revenge' is fractionally closer).

Sauron, or rather Mairon, couldn't have had six BROTHERS in the mind of Eru, could he?

I mean, I suppose he could? You're looking way too obscure, though. Break the clue into two parts: what is Sauron's most famous title, and what set of six can it be said to have?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I tried ANNATAR first of all. Not 6 letters, not 6 of any kind of letter.

Is it that MAIRON has 6 letters? But so has SAURON, so why say 'other name?'

[Pervinca Took]

THE LORD OF THE RINGS.

BAUGLIR

THU

THAURON

Still not 6 of anything.

[Pervinca Took]

Unless it's that THE LORD OF THE RINGS has six VOWELS?

...

Oh dear. Neither letters nor vowels begin with B anyway!

[Pervinca Took]

Could R be REBELLION?

[Huinesoron]

Unless it's that THE LORD OF THE RINGS has six VOWELS?

...

Oh dear. Neither letters nor vowels begin with B anyway!

[Stares in 'You're Gonna Kick Yourself']

Could R be REBELLION?

It could not.

If I point out that '3/4' only means 'three quarters' in the first instance, it might help maybe?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Books!!!

And Rheumatism. :D

[Huinesoron]

Books!!!

Theeeeere it is. ^_^

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. I - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

And Rheumatism. :D

-_-

What are there 3 / 4 of?

hS

[Urwen]

They have rectums. A recto is 3/4 of a folio. It was so obvious. :D

[Pervinca Took]

They have rectums. A recto is 3/4 of a folio. It was so obvious. :D

I wanted to post the b-------- equivalent of rectums for the Sauron clue. :D

[Pervinca Took]

What are there 3 / 4 of?

hS

Marauders.

(Peter Pettigrew defected).

…

Is it something to do with RUNES? Do RUNES cover 3/4 of our modern letters, or something?

And did many warriors have the RUNS? :D C'mon - that's 80% of runes - near enough, surely? :p And it has historical precedents - Henry V's soldiers (see, warriors) got the squirts between Harfleur and Agincourt. I believe the king even died of it 5 years later!

[Huinesoron]

The second '3/4' does not mean 'three quarters'. It means the other thing you'd usually indicate with a slash between two items(eg, 'this clue will probably be solved by Pervinca/Urwen').

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could 3 be the hells of IRON?

Is it specifically 3 or 4, or could it be 5 or 6, etc?

I can't think of any 3/4 things, other than that there were 3 but really 4 Eldar/Edain marriages, because there was also Imrazor and Mithrellas.

[Huinesoron]

Could 3 be the hells of IRON?

It could! Anga-mando, Iron-Hell (which is kind of an insult to Mandos, come to think of it?).

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

Is it specifically 3 or 4, or could it be 5 or 6, etc?

I can't think of any 3/4 things, other than that there were 3 but really 4 Eldar/Edain marriages, because there was also Imrazor and Mithrellas.

It's specifically three. Strictly speaking it's four, but nobody really thinks about the fourth one, and if you asked 'How many [this thing] are there?', most people would say three.

Eldar-Edain marriages is a good thought; it's not right, nor in the right direction, but it's the right kind of thought process.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

O - Ovaltine, after a long night down t'pit? :D

The only O--- gemstones I can think of are ones I don't really remember hearing of in Tolkien, like ONYX. OPALS may be mentioned in a song or a necklace somewhere.

[Huinesoron]

O - Ovaltine, after a long night down t'pit? :D

The only O--- gemstones I can think of are ones I don't really remember hearing of in Tolkien, like ONYX. OPALS may be mentioned in a song or a necklace somewhere.

It's not a gemstone. This clue points at one word three different ways - only one of them (the last) in English.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ore?

[Huinesoron]

Ore?

Correct. I justify it not only as the only way to get an O, but by saying that 'heart' isn't really an accurate translation of the Quenya, so orë is the only way to accurately include it.

It's also probably the biggest hint at the theme, along with 'book' and 'lamp' taken together.

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
ORE - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I thought of ore a while back. But I don't understand the Quenya elements. And what is the rise? Are we talking about a vowel sounded higher in the throat, justifying the two dots?

[Huinesoron]

I thought of ore a while back. But I don't understand the Quenya elements. And what is the rise? Are we talking about a vowel sounded higher in the throat, justifying the two dots?

Nope - it's simply that orë is variously translated as 'heart (inner mind)' and 'rise/rising', depending on the source text. :)

The umlaut/diaeresis, when used in Quenya, is actually just a reminder to pronounce the letter. You always pronounce a terminal E in Quenya - Tolkien just wanted to make sure people remembered that.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

All I can think of for R is roch/rocco/rokko for horse. But can't satisfy the 3/4 element(s) at all.

[Huinesoron]

All I can think of for R is roch/rocco/rokko for horse. But can't satisfy the 3/4 element(s) at all.

Nope; R is in English. It's an emotion, and 3/4 of the word is something there's 3 (well, 4) of in Middle-earth.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Regret.

Egret?

Sorry, that's too much of the word! (Before I look for famous herons of M-e).

[Pervinca Took]

Rage and Age?

(Not counting all the Ages before the Two Trees in Valinor, of course!)

[Huinesoron]

Rage and Age?

Spot on!

(Not counting all the Ages before the Two Trees in Valinor, of course!)

I'm pretty sure I remember Tolkien asserting that the Ages of the World were getting shorter, which doesn't make sense with the tiny First Age (of the Sun). Given how consistent he was with that First, I think he saw everything up to the fall of Beleriand as the First Age (the Age of Melkor, if you like).

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
RAGE - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
ORE - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

And that's that! The password goes to Urwen, I believe.

Do you want me to tell you the theme, or do you want to try and figure it out?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Please tell me. It's not things that have been inscribed symbolically, is it? Were there lamps on the doors of Moria?

[Huinesoron]

Please tell me. It's not things that have been inscribed symbolically, is it? Were there lamps on the doors of Moria?

Much simpler: it's the English translations of the names of the Tengwar.

The first four on the table are Tinco - Parma - Calma - Quessa, representing the letters T, P, C, and Qu; in English, their names mean metal - book - lamp - feather.

(I'm pretty sure all of this, including the English, is in the Appendices, but there's a possibility it's somewhere else.)

So yes, in essence: "Feanor [wrote] an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use[d] [names] of these things because they had the right initials". ;):D

hS

[Urwen]

1. The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
6. Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
8. A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

(Only one of the clues is cryptic. Have fun! :D
Also, I think you would like the first clue, Huey. ;)

[Galadriel55]

6 has gotta be Celebrimbor. Am I remembering my Elvish correctly?

8. Nimrodel?

So yes, in essence: "Feanor [wrote] an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use[d] [names] of these things because they had the right initials". ;)

And he had plenty of real world precedent to do so. The challenge was to find what the Elvish words actually were without looking them up. :D I wonder if in fact most cultures named the letters in their original alphabets with corresponding words.

6 Books was a fabulous clue! :D

[Urwen]

1. The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

[Huinesoron]

Also, I think you would like the first clue, Huey. ;)

In which case it almost has to be Tar-Miriel the Magnificent, Fourth Ruling Queen of Numenor, Empress of the Seas, Elf-friend, defeater of Sauron and restorer of the Old Ways.

Or "Miriel" to her buddies.

hS

[Urwen]

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

[Kath]

Is 9 Durin?

[Urwen]

Is 9 Durin?


Technically, no. But if you were to add something extra to that, then yes. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

Sheepland is Numenor, isn't it? Erendis and Ancalime don't want to leave their sheep, IIRC.

[Urwen]

Sheepland is Numenor, isn't it? Erendis and Ancalime don't want to leave their sheep, IIRC.


Nope.

[Kath]

Technically, no. But if you were to add something extra to that, then yes. ;)
Erm ... Durin III?

[Pervinca Took]

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

So we can see it on the new page.

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe ALDARION for number 10. (The clue, not Downing Street).

5. ELROS, equating Numenor with Atlantis?

[Urwen]

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
DURIN III: Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
ALDARION: An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

I was going for Anardil, but since they're the same person, it works.

[Pervinca Took]

3. ERENDIS? (Elestirne)

5. ELROS?

[Pervinca Took]

I don't know if 'sheep land' needs to be a whole country, but EMERIE is the sheep district of Numenor.

[Urwen]

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
ERENDIS: By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
ELROS: The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
DURIN III: Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
ALDARION: An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
EMERIE: Sheep land.

[Pervinca Took]

Password: The Second Age.

4. Siril.

11. Galadriel, because of the Ring of Adamant?

2. Hat-hold-ir, friend of Tar-Meneldur.

Would the last one be Ossiriand?

[Urwen]

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
HATHOLDIR: A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
ERENDIS: By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
SIRIL: Islandic river? It's the biggest.
ELROS: The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
O: A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
DURIN III: Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
ALDARION: An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
GALADRIEL: Lady of Adamant. (Call).
EMERIE: Sheep land.

No. My bad, that one is cryptic too.

[Pervinca Took]

Orome + t(urin) ?

[Urwen]

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
HATHOLDIR: A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
ERENDIS: By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
SIRIL: Islandic river? It's the biggest.
ELROS: The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
OROMET: A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
DURIN III: Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
ALDARION: An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
GALADRIEL: Lady of Adamant. (Call).
EMERIE: Sheep land.

And the new one is yours.

[Pervinca Took]

Here we go, then:

1. It drags the bearer earthwards.
2. Zero edge to this hang-out! But it’s colossal.
3. Within a vow are mingled a note, two ways and two eyes, we hear? There!
4. A Fallohide shows it to a Stoor.
5. Here! Lisp an orcish preposition, and add a legal property right!
6. May they redirect a mumak!

[Urwen]

3. Osgiliath (Oath + Two I's + S + L + G)

[Pervinca Took]

1. It drags the bearer earthwards.
2. Zero edge to this hang-out! But it’s colossal.
OSGILIATH: Within a vow are mingled a note, two ways and two eyes, we hear? There!
4. A Fallohide shows it to a Stoor.
5. Here! Lisp an orcish preposition, and add a legal property right!
6. May they redirect a mumak!

[Kath]

The first one isn't The One Ring is it?

[Pervinca Took]

The first one isn't The One Ring is it?

It is, but can you give it a descriptive name? (Descriptive in a way that goes with how the clue refers to it).

[Urwen]

Burden for 1?

[Pervinca Took]

BURDEN: It drags the bearer earthwards.
2. Zero edge to this hang-out! But it’s colossal.
OSGILIATH: Within a vow are mingled a note, two ways and two eyes, we hear? There!
4. A Fallohide shows it to a Stoor.
5. Here! Lisp an orcish preposition, and add a legal property right!
6. May they redirect a mumak!