Password

[Huinesoron]

Middle Quenya, huh? That opens up some new options...

Is the password MERYALE, M.Q. for 'holiday'?

hS

[Urwen]

METTARE: Shaken-up substance, with a vowel. This emerges.
E: Everlasting, circularly? Ah, you, they call back, for it.
RINGDAY: Band time! Enjoy it!
YESTARE: The long look, archaically, reveals this.
AUSTALENDE: Gold. Used up, like bread. Jumbled closure. This appears.
LITHE: Lightened, he says, shortly. Just like this usually is.
ENDIRE: At the close, wrath returns. For this.

[Huinesoron]

Okay, one left.

I think "Everlasting, circularly?" might mean a synonym of "everlasting" anagrammed. Then the word ends with UR.

Slight problem... the only words on Encyclopedia of Arda or Tolkien Gateway that fit the E...UR model are names (Earendur, Earnur, and Elendur). Eldamo adds the location-name Eneadur, but that's it.

I suppose 'ah, you, they call back' could be something like -UARE? But the only word ending with that is 'quáre', 'fist' in Quenya; not helpful.

I've finally remembered the existence of the Three Prayers of Numenor, which all start with E and have an RU in them (though not reversed); but none of them seem to fit either.

hS

[Urwen]

Actually, it doesn't end with UR.

[Huinesoron]

Actually, it doesn't end with UR.

Hmm.

Okay. Holidays or festivals beginning with E: Erukyermë, Erulaitalë, Eruhantalë, Enderë [the singular of Enderi].

'They call back' could also refer to the entire word, in which case we also need these words ending with E: Loëndë, Tuilérë, Yáviérë, Overlithe, Yule.

And the following words (old or current) with festival-related meanings: Merende, Kalende (both mean 'festival').

I think the most likely is YAVIERE; it includes the letters of 'ever', with 'Ya, I' left over, which is at least vaguely related to 'Ah, you'. It would run backwards, of course.

Alternately, MERENDE is possible: it starts with 'Me R', which is the mirror of 'Ah [R], you', and ends with, well, ENDENDENDEND, cut off, which is sort of like 'endless'. Again it would be backwards.

Failing that, I at least hope I've found it somewhere in these lists...!

hS

[Urwen]

How about you try doing 'ah, u' backwards? And surround it with synonym for 'everlasting'?

[Huinesoron]

How about you try doing 'ah, u' backwards? And surround it with synonym for 'everlasting'?

Ahhhh, that's clever. So I /think/ ERUHANTALE is UHA surrounded by ETERNAL. But it's too late on the clock for me to be sure of all the letters.

hS

[Urwen]

METTARE: Shaken-up substance, with a vowel. This emerges.
ERUHANTALE: Everlasting, circularly? Ah, you, they call back, for it.
RINGDAY: Band time! Enjoy it!
YESTARE: The long look, archaically, reveals this.
AUSTALENDE: Gold. Used up, like bread. Jumbled closure. This appears.
LITHE: Lightened, he says, shortly. Just like this usually is.
ENDIRE: At the close, wrath returns. For this.

And over to you.

[Huinesoron]

And over to you.

Woo! That was a tough one; thanks! :)

Feel like it's been a while since I've done this, so here goes:

1. - Georgia back and like the French open up.
2. - Multiply the middle by a hundred to find Dernhelm, soaking wet.
3. - Eager? No - make a Japanese shift and move it around before he flies.
4. - Pharazon in his hubris: "My leg am Huorn! No, wait, I mean my--"
5. - A topic or tune, an I definitely object.

hS

[Urwen]

3. Eagle? R to L and then rearrange it?

[Huinesoron]

3. Eagle? R to L and then rearrange it?

Precisely. :)

1. - Georgia back and like the French open up.
2. - Multiply the middle by a hundred to find Dernhelm, soaking wet.
EAGLE - Eager? No - make a Japanese shift and move it around before he flies.
4. - Pharazon in his hubris: "My leg am Huorn! No, wait, I mean my--"
5. - A topic or tune, an I definitely object.

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. With GA back, and LA being a form of French "the", perhaps AGLAROND?

5. A rather silly answer - THE EYE? It's a definite form and a more object-like variant of "an I".

[Huinesoron]

1. With GA back, and LA being a form of French "the", perhaps AGLAROND?

Well, GA is the right interpretation of Georgia, but you're misparsing the rest.

5. A rather silly answer - THE EYE? It's a definite form and a more object-like variant of "an I".

You're about halfway there on this one. :)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Well, GA is the right interpretation of Georgia, but you're misparsing the rest.

How about GATE for part of it, then? GA + ET backwards, and it opens up. The rest I can't fit though, in either language. Given the Eagles, perhaps BLACK GATE?

[Huinesoron]

How about GATE for part of it, then? GA + ET backwards, and it opens up. The rest I can't fit though, in either language. Given the Eagles, perhaps BLACK GATE?

Just GATE will do fine. It's "Georgia + back ['and', like the French] = open up".

GATE - Georgia back and like the French open up.
2. - Multiply the middle by a hundred to find Dernhelm, soaking wet.
EAGLE - Eager? No - make a Japanese shift and move it around before he flies.
4. - Pharazon in his hubris: "My leg am Huorn! No, wait, I mean my--"
5. - A topic or tune, an I definitely object.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Is the password GREAT? Suggesting RIVER for #2, from RIDER, changing V=5 and D=500. Hurray for all the Great things Tolkien! :D

[Pervinca Took]

5. THEME - a great one from the music of the Ainur?

Oh! And 'an' turns from the indefinite article into the definite article, 'the,' with 'me' for I ... oh, again! The subject pronoun becomes the object one.

4. Is this just AR? Does AR mean 'great?'

[Huinesoron]

Is the password GREAT? Suggesting RIVER for #2, from RIDER, changing V=5 and D=500. Hurray for all the Great things Tolkien! :D

Yes and yes. :)

5. THEME - a great one from the music of the Ainur?

Oh! And 'an' turns from the indefinite article into the definite article, 'the,' with 'me' for I ... oh, again! The subject pronoun becomes the object one.

Precisely this! ;)


4. Is this just AR? Does AR mean 'great?'

I think it means 'king'; 'AR' is not the answer.

GATE - Georgia back and like the French open up.
RIVER - Multiply the middle by a hundred to find Dernhelm, soaking wet.
EAGLE - Eager? No - make a Japanese shift and move it around before he flies.
4.A - Pharazon in his hubris: "My leg am Huorn! No, wait, I mean my--"
THEME - A topic or tune, an I definitely object.

hS

[Galadriel55]

I thought it was a sound-alike, but it's not exactly. In his hubris, Pharazon gathered an ARMAMENT (arm + am + ent).

[Urwen]

Armanent? Great armanent?

[Huinesoron]

I thought it was a sound-alike, but it's not exactly. In his hubris, Pharazon gathered an ARMAMENT (arm + am + ent).

Armanent? Great armanent?

Armament it is! His arm am ent.

GATE - Georgia back and like the French open up.
RIVER - Multiply the middle by a hundred to find Dernhelm, soaking wet.
EAGLE - Eager? No - make a Japanese shift and move it around before he flies.
ARMAMENT - Pharazon in his hubris: "My leg am Huorn! No, wait, I mean my--"
THEME - A topic or tune, an I definitely object.

Five 'Great...' s of Arda.

And Galadriel55 got the password, I believe.

hS

[Galadriel55]

That was a great password! (Pun totally intended) :D This one is inspired by it too.


1. Vowels on a table danced, and the cow in the garden quite likely pranced, but who was it again out there with the tail?
2. Where doom is, when it's near.
3. If you believe in an eye for an eye, you'd get a palindrome on a horse.
4. Denethor yells: "Haul her! Drag her! Pull her!"
5. A number mispronounced branches out upon reflection.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Mordor, in Orodruin?

Or Imladris, when 'doom is near at hand,' as said in 'the riddling words' brought by Boromir to Rivendell and recited at the Council?

[Galadriel55]

2. Mordor, in Orodruin?

Or Imladris, when 'doom is near at hand,' as said in 'the riddling words' brought by Boromir to Rivendell and recited at the Council?

I'll give it to you, because you have the right quote.


1. Vowels on a table danced, and the cow in the garden quite likely pranced, but who was it again out there with the tail?
2. HAND: Where doom is, when it's near.
3. If you believe in an eye for an eye, you'd get a palindrome on a horse.
4. Denethor yells: "Haul her! Drag her! Pull her!"
5. A number mispronounced branches out upon reflection.

[Urwen]

Is the password 'WHITE' (White Hand)

[Urwen]

And if so, then 3 is RIDER.

[Urwen]

And 1 is WOLVES (Vowels rearranged, wolves live 'out there' and have tails.)

[Galadriel55]

Correct for both. I am on my phone and putting in 4 highlights is masochism, so will edit that in in a bit when I am at the comouter.

[Urwen]

Now, if 'her' is a straight clue, it makes me think of Eowyn, Aredhel or Galadriel. Drag fits for Galadriel, but the rest doesn't. And one of the synonyms fit for Aredhel, but can't fit 'her' in there. And Eowyn is Denethor's daughter-in-law...

[Huinesoron]

#4: "Tow her!" Er, I mean TOWER.

#5: "Sev'n stars / and sev'n stones / and one white T'REE"

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. WOLVES: Vowels on a table danced, and the cow in the garden quite likely pranced, but who was it again out there with the tail?
2. HAND: Where doom is, when it's near.
3. RIDER: If you believe in an eye for an eye, you'd get a palindrome on a horse.
4. TOWER: Denethor yells: "Haul her! Drag her! Pull her!"
5. EERT: A number mispronounced branches out upon reflection.

And over to Urwen!


ETA, a reaction to Hui's last post: Vhat? Van vayt tree? But eef eet eez van, vhy yoo sey tree? :D

[Urwen]

Well, I had this idea for a few days...

1. 'A ruffian lie' the queen says 'A letter. Is boorish and twisted.'
2. 'Some of us know its lay' says the man 'Or at least it's a common saying that we do.'
3. 'Line the pointy things.' says the pirate
4. 'You don't want to end up in there' they warn 'You will never be able to come back. Unless you appeal by replacing the penultimate letter with its successor.'
5. The second-in-command of an evil, odd-numbered unit.

Yes, I stole Huey's 'piratey' clue.

[Huinesoron]

ETA, a reaction to Hui's last post: Vhat? Van vayt tree? But eef eet eez van, vhy yoo sey tree? :D

For some reason I'm hearing this in a mock Swedish accent.

Yes, I stole Huey's 'piratey' clue.

All the answers are ARR and the password is ARRRR. :D For my puzzle, I'd like to-- no? No? Ah well. ;)

EDIT: Actually seriously, is #5 KHAMUL?

hS

[Urwen]

EDIT: Actually seriously, is #5 KHAMUL?
hS

Indeed. :)

1. 'A ruffian lie' the queen says 'A letter. Is boorish and twisted.'
2. 'Some of us know its lay' says the man 'Or at least it's a common saying that we do.'
3. 'Line the pointy things.' says the pirate
4. 'You don't want to end up in there' they warn 'You will never be able to come back. Unless you appeal by replacing the penultimate letter with its successor.'
KHAMUL: The second-in-command of an evil, odd-numbered unit.

[Galadriel55]

Wild guess for LAND for 2?

[Urwen]

1. 'A ruffian lie' the queen says 'A letter. Is boorish and twisted.'
LAND: 'Some of us know its lay' says the man 'Or at least it's a common saying that we do.'
3. 'Line the pointy things.' says the pirate
4. 'You don't want to end up in there' they warn 'You will never be able to come back. Unless you appeal by replacing the penultimate letter with its successor.'
KHAMUL: The second-in-command of an evil, odd-numbered unit.

[Huinesoron]

So #3 could be "Arrrrr, a row!" - er, ARROW - in which case:

Is the password BLACK?

And if so, is #4 CHASM? There's not many who can return from Moria, unless they change that S to a T and rejoin the cast(m).

hS

[Urwen]

B: 'A ruffian lie' the queen says 'A letter. Is boorish and twisted.'
LAND: 'Some of us know its lay' says the man 'Or at least it's a common saying that we do.'
ARROW: 'Line the pointy things.' says the pirate
CHASM: 'You don't want to end up in there' they warn 'You will never be able to come back. Unless you appeal by replacing the penultimate letter with its successor.'
KHAMUL: The second-in-command of an evil, odd-numbered unit.


4 is actually charm > chasm

[Pervinca Took]

Another black thing in the Tolkienverse is BREATH, but I cannot reach that from the clues, so I don't think it can be right.

[Urwen]

Another black thing in the Tolkienverse is BREATH, but I cannot reach that from the clues, so I don't think it can be right.


The straight clue in the last one is well-hidden.

[Galadriel55]

If a queen speaks in initial letters, for whatever reason, she could be referring to the ruffian BILL. :confused:

[Urwen]

If a queen speaks in initial letters, for whatever reason, she could be referring to the ruffian BILL. :confused:


Nope. I would have said so if that were the case. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

BERUTHIEL contains brute and lie, but 'queen' isn't exactly well hidden.

A black Numenorean.

[Urwen]

BERUTHIEL: 'A ruffian lie' the queen says 'A letter. Is boorish and twisted.'
LAND: 'Some of us know its lay' says the man 'Or at least it's a common saying that we do.'
ARROW: 'Line the pointy things.' says the pirate
CHASM: 'You don't want to end up in there' they warn 'You will never be able to come back. Unless you appeal by replacing the penultimate letter with its successor.'
KHAMUL: The second-in-command of an evil, odd-numbered unit.

Over to Huinesoron.

[Pervinca Took]

Urwen, does 'A letter' just mean the H we need so we have all the letters in 'Beruthiel?'

[Urwen]

Urwen, does 'A letter' just mean the H we need so we have all the letters in 'Beruthiel?'

Yes.

[Huinesoron]

That was a fun one; thanks.

This... I don't know; my brain hurts. We'll see.

1. - The crown of the north, ruled mother in anger. (Would make money but for you)
2. - Wet, not out, half under, a Nation without a capital. (Her title stolen)
3. - "I say, it's now grim, little ones." (Narrow the log backwards)
4. - Grand and very 2020: the ruin of Gondor. (Tell them no with a thick accent)
5. - Odd power, between a shin and neck both missing something, going down. (One way or another, the last.)
6. - In the shadow, girl abs? No, that's both backwards - except the plural - and wrong at once; who's in charge? (I said he's gone, but he was thin first)
7. - With his brother - or cousin - he said, "Anger might, eh?" (But for a couple of letters, he could dig for a herb)
8. - Your chai has no vowels, fallen ones. (Noted for his hair, I hear)
9. - An elf's vehicle, or a rightful king. (Throw an elven jewel)
10. - Not to roll, hardly. (The son of the sun)
11. - A horse with cold fur. (Almost definitely a god)

(Parentheticals are not part of the answer, but are separate clues as to how each one fits the theme.)

hS

[Urwen]

9. Eldacar (Elda + car)

[Urwen]

3. Naugrim?

[Urwen]

'Her title stolen' thing makes me think of Aerin/Tar-Miriel...

[Huinesoron]

9. Eldacar (Elda + car)

3. Naugrim?

'Her title stolen' thing makes me think of Aerin/Tar-Miriel...

Yes, yes, and good thinking. Will add later when at computer.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

8. Yrch.

Fallen or corrupted elves, and 'your chai' with no vowels.

It is Legolas who says 'Yrch,' I think, and he's noted for his hair as it's not certain whether he's fair or dark. So could the theme be the people who say the words/answers?

[Huinesoron]

9. Eldacar (Elda + car)

3. Naugrim?

8. Yrch.

Fallen or corrupted elves, and 'your chai' with no vowels.

All three of these were correct, but,


It is Legolas who says 'Yrch,' I think, and he's noted for his hair as it's not certain whether he's fair or dark. So could the theme be the people who say the words/answers?

This is not. The Sindarin 'yrch' rather than 'Orcs' is just for the letter. :)

1. - The crown of the north, ruled mother in anger. (Would make money but for you)
2. - Wet, not out, half under, a Nation without a capital. (Her title stolen)
NAUGRIM - "I say, it's now grim, little ones." (Narrow the log backwards)
4. - Grand and very 2020: the ruin of Gondor. (Tell them no with a thick accent)
5. - Odd power, between a shin and neck both missing something, going down. (One way or another, the last.)
6. - In the shadow, girl abs? No, that's both backwards - except the plural - and wrong at once; who's in charge? (I said he's gone, but he was thin first)
7. - With his brother - or cousin - he said, "Anger might, eh?" (But for a couple of letters, he could dig for a herb)
YRCH - Your chai has no vowels, fallen ones. (Noted for his hair, I hear)
ELDACAR - An elf's vehicle, or a rightful king. (Throw an elven jewel)
10. - Not to roll, hardly. (The son of the sun)
11. - A horse with cold fur. (Almost definitely a god)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could 11 be SNOWMANE?

[Galadriel55]

4. Great Plague? :p

[Huinesoron]

Could 11 be SNOWMANE?

It could

4. Great Plague? :p

and it is!

1. - The crown of the north, ruled mother in anger. (Would make money but for you)
2. - Wet, not out, half under, a Nation without a capital. (Her title stolen)
NAUGRIM - "I say, it's now grim, little ones." (Narrow the log backwards)
GREAT PLAGUE - Grand and very 2020: the ruin of Gondor. (Tell them no with a thick accent)
5. - Odd power, between a shin and neck both missing something, going down. (One way or another, the last.)
6. - In the shadow, girl abs? No, that's both backwards - except the plural - and wrong at once; who's in charge? (I said he's gone, but he was thin first)
7. - With his brother - or cousin - he said, "Anger might, eh?" (But for a couple of letters, he could dig for a herb)
YRCH - Your chai has no vowels, fallen ones. (Noted for his hair, I hear)
ELDACAR - An elf's vehicle, or a rightful king. (Throw an elven jewel)
10. - Not to roll, hardly. (The son of the sun)
SNOWMANE - A horse with cold fur. (Almost definitely a god)

[Urwen]

I have some vague ideas, but can't make them fit the clues...

[Galadriel55]

5. NINE: odd number, power of 3, found in shin and neck minus a few letters.

[Huinesoron]

I have some vague ideas, but can't make them fit the clues...

If you can parse any of the (parentheses) for the ones people have got, it should reveal the theme very quickly. I think Eldacar's or the Naugrim's are the easiest - or, er, will be, once I correct the typo in the latter (it should say 'the log', not 'the long').

5. NINE: odd number, power of 3, found in shin and neck minus a few letters.

This is a really neat bit of reasoning. Totally wrong, but really nice.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, the theme (and the password) could be 'kingslayers (https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Jaime_Lannister)'...But technically, Eldacar didn't kill a king, but an usurper...

[Urwen]

2. Could be Iluvatar, who killed Pharazon, who stole the title from Miriel...

[Urwen]

And if so, then the clues in parenthesis lead to the kings they've killed.

For Naugrim, it's Thingol (narrow = thin + log backwards), and for Eldacar, it's Castamir (cast a mir)

[Urwen]

And 4 is for Telemnar (tel em nah)

[Huinesoron]

Well, the theme (and the password) could be 'kingslayers (https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Jaime_Lannister)'

It could and it is be. :) GoT reference unintentional though; I was thinking of this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kingkiller_Chronicle), but I see that's kingkiller...

And if so, then the clues in parenthesis lead to the kings they've killed.

For Naugrim, it's Thingol (narrow = thin + log backwards), and for Eldacar, it's Castamir (cast a mir)

And 4 is for Telemnar (tel em nah)

Yes and yes, and you're right, that's what the (parens) are for.

2. Could be Iluvatar, who killed Pharazon, who stole the title from Miriel...

This is not right; Pharazon isn't dead! But Miriel is the slain...

1. K - The crown of the north, ruled mother in anger. (Would make money but for you)
2. I - Wet, not out, half under, a Nation without a capital. (Her title stolen) killed Tar-Miriel of Numenor
NAUGRIM - "I say, it's now grim, little ones." (Narrow the log backwards) killed Thingol of Doriath
GREAT PLAGUE - Grand and very 2020: the ruin of Gondor. (Tell them no with a thick accent) killed Telemnar of Gondor
5. S - Odd power, between a shin and neck both missing something, going down. (One way or another, the last.)
6. L - In the shadow, girl abs? No, that's both backwards - except the plural - and wrong at once; who's in charge? (I said he's gone, but he was thin first)
7. A - With his brother - or cousin - he said, "Anger might, eh?" (But for a couple of letters, he could dig for a herb)
YRCH - Your chai has no vowels, fallen ones. (Noted for his hair, I hear) killed Isildur of the Realms in Exile
ELDACAR - An elf's vehicle, or a rightful king. (Throw an elven jewel) killed Castamir of Gondor
10. R - Not to roll, hardly. (The son of the sun)
SNOWMANE - A horse with cold fur. (Almost definitely a god) killed Theoden of Rohan

...But technically, Eldacar didn't kill a king, but an usurper...

Only if you accept the assertion that a non-Dunadan can be king of the Numenorean Exiles. If you're a racist Gondorian, that idea would be enough to... well... kick off a violent revolt that put a pure-blood on the throne for a whole decade, and was overthrown not by the people of Gondor itself, but by a bunch of grubby northmen of exactly the breed they were worried about.

My list of possible kings included not only Castamir, but also Pharazon, Wulf of Rohan, and Maglor as heir of Maedhros. I even had stewards and Lords of the Eored on there! ... though I've just now realise I forgot to consider Orodreth.

Anyway, I've just checked, and I think Miriel is the only titular non-king on the list.

hS

[Urwen]

Well, 'wave' doesn't begin with 'I' as far as I know...

[Urwen]

4 is rock

[Urwen]

7. Angamaite (and Minardil)

[Urwen]

1 doesn't begin with 'K', but it could be the Witch King.

[Pervinca Took]

2 is INUNDATION, I think. The great wave/flooding/drowning of Numenor. Miriel was drowned back home in Numenor, I think.

[Huinesoron]

4 is rock

7. Angamaite (and Minardil)

1 doesn't begin with 'K', but it could be the Witch King.

2 is INUNDATION, I think. The great wave/flooding/drowning of Numenor. Miriel was drowned back home in Numenor, I think.

Yes to all four (#1 is specifically "King of Angmar"). Will fill them in tomorrow.

hS

[Huinesoron]

KING OF ANGMAR - The crown of the north, ruled mother in anger. (Would make money but for you) killed Earnur of Gondor
INUNDATION - Wet, not out, half under, a Nation without a capital. (Her title stolen) killed Tar-Miriel of Numenor
NAUGRIM - "I say, it's now grim, little ones." (Narrow the log backwards) killed Thingol of Doriath
GREAT PLAGUE - Grand and very 2020: the ruin of Gondor. (Tell them no with a thick accent) killed Telemnar of Gondor
5. S - Odd power, between a shin and neck both missing something, going down. (One way or another, the last.)
6. L - In the shadow, girl abs? No, that's both backwards - except the plural - and wrong at once; who's in charge? (I said he's gone, but he was thin first)
ANGAMAITE - With his brother - or cousin - he said, "Anger might, eh?" (But for a couple of letters, he could dig for a herb) killed Minardil of Gondor
YRCH - Your chai has no vowels, fallen ones. (Noted for his hair, I hear) killed Isildur of the Realms in Exile
ELDACAR - An elf's vehicle, or a rightful king. (Throw an elven jewel) killed Castamir of Gondor
ROCK - Not to roll, hardly. (The son of the sun) killed Anarion of Gondor
SNOWMANE - A horse with cold fur. (Almost definitely a god) killed Theoden of Rohan

Inundation was in + und(er) + (N)ation.

I've just had to triple check that Anarion was considered a king; apparently he was co-king with Isildur. Is that the only true joint kingship in Middle-earth? Pharazon and Miriel don't count.

hS

[Urwen]

Does 'und' count as half of 'under'? I'd say, more like, 3/5ths, but that's just me...

[Urwen]

I've just had to triple check that Anarion was considered a king; apparently he was co-king with Isildur. Is that the only true joint kingship in Middle-earth? Pharazon and Miriel don't count.

hS

Damn right they do not. :mad:

[Huinesoron]

Does 'und' count as half of 'under'? I'd say, more like, 3/5ths, but that's just me...

I mean, I can mark the answer as incorrect if you like... ;)

Damn right they do not. :mad:

I suppose Tar-Vanimelde and Herucalmo could count, but he wasn't officially king until after her death (and frankly, I wonder whether the whole 'she was so flighty her husband had to do the work' isn't a Pharazonist lie concocted to justify refusing Miriel the sceptre). Celeborn and Galadriel blatantly rule jointly, but even she claims that Celeborn is in charge; similarly Thingol and Melian.

I think the closest to actual, acknowledged and official joint rule I can think of is Angrod and Aegnor as joint Lords of Dorthonion.

hS

[Urwen]

Come to the dark side, Huinesoron...embrace the feminist ideology...we have cookies...and spaghetti...

[Huinesoron]

Come to the dark side, Huinesoron...embrace the feminist ideology...we have cookies...and spaghetti...

Oh, I've been over there a long time. ^_~

"Oh, just come out and say it," Tuor said. "You don't want to put a woman on the throne."

"There's not exactly a precedent," Oropher said. "No woman has ever ruled in Beler-"

"Haleth," Tuor said, then smirked. "Oh, I'm sorry, I was just thinking. Do go on."

"... amongst the Eldar," Guilin said, lowering his brows at the Man, "the High King has always been a... King."

-Regency Council (https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13560935/1/Regency-Council)

hS

[Urwen]

Back to the password, 6 must be Lord of Balrogs.

[Huinesoron]

Back to the password, 6 must be Lord of Balrogs.

Oh yeah, password... correct.

KING OF ANGMAR - The crown of the north, ruled mother in anger. (Would make money but for you) killed Earnur of Gondor
INUNDATION - Wet, not out, half under, a Nation without a capital. (Her title stolen) killed Tar-Miriel of Numenor
NAUGRIM - "I say, it's now grim, little ones." (Narrow the log backwards) killed Thingol of Doriath
GREAT PLAGUE - Grand and very 2020: the ruin of Gondor. (Tell them no with a thick accent) killed Telemnar of Gondor
5. S - Odd power, between a shin and neck both missing something, going down. (One way or another, the last.)
LORD OF BALROGS - In the shadow, girl abs? No, that's both backwards - except the plural - and wrong at once; who's in charge? (I said he's gone, but he was thin first) killed Fingon of the Noldor
ANGAMAITE - With his brother - or cousin - he said, "Anger might, eh?" (But for a couple of letters, he could dig for a herb) killed Minardil of Gondor
YRCH - Your chai has no vowels, fallen ones. (Noted for his hair, I hear) killed Isildur of the Realms in Exile
ELDACAR - An elf's vehicle, or a rightful king. (Throw an elven jewel) killed Castamir of Gondor
ROCK - Not to roll, hardly. (The son of the sun) killed Anarion of Gondor
SNOWMANE - A horse with cold fur. (Almost definitely a god) killed Theoden of Rohan

Just one to go! The shin and neck are both missing the same thing.

hS

[Urwen]

I get it. If we remove even letters from power, we have pwr. And so ((Shin-n)+pwr + (neck-n)) = shi+pwr+eck.

[Huinesoron]

I get it. If we remove even letters from power, we have pwr. And so ((Shin-n)+pwr + (neck-n)) = shi+pwr+eck.

Spot on exactly.

KING OF ANGMAR - The crown of the north, ruled mother in anger. (Would make money but for you) killed Earnur of Gondor
INUNDATION - Wet, not out, half under, a Nation without a capital. (Her title stolen) killed Tar-Miriel of Numenor
NAUGRIM - "I say, it's now grim, little ones." (Narrow the log backwards) killed Thingol of Doriath
GREAT PLAGUE - Grand and very 2020: the ruin of Gondor. (Tell them no with a thick accent) killed Telemnar of Gondor
SHIPWRECK - Odd power, between a shin and neck both missing something, going down. (One way or another, the last.) killed Arvedui of Arthedain
LORD OF BALROGS - In the shadow, girl abs? No, that's both backwards - except the plural - and wrong at once; who's in charge? (I said he's gone, but he was thin first) killed Fingon of the Noldor
ANGAMAITE - With his brother - or cousin - he said, "Anger might, eh?" (But for a couple of letters, he could dig for a herb) killed Minardil of Gondor
YRCH - Your chai has no vowels, fallen ones. (Noted for his hair, I hear) killed Isildur of the Realms in Exile
ELDACAR - An elf's vehicle, or a rightful king. (Throw an elven jewel) killed Castamir of Gondor
ROCK - Not to roll, hardly. (The son of the sun) killed Anarion of Gondor
SNOWMANE - A horse with cold fur. (Almost definitely a god) killed Theoden of Rohan

Fun fact: at least two kings were killed by shipwreck, the other being Earnil I of Gondor. Second fun fact: as best I can tell, Tar-Miriel is the only Numenorean ruler to die of anything other than old age or 'yielding up their life'. Not counting Pharazon the King Under The Hill, and Tar-Telperien the Witch-Queen. ^_~

Over to you, Urwen!

hS

[Urwen]

I wonder if we could count Eowyn & Merry as king-killers for killing the aforementioned King of Angmar.

[Urwen]

Either way, you'll love this one, you will.


1. She reflects an untruth, an edge and a rodent. (Until the very end.)
2. A broken trunk. Untruth switches vowels, for her ("Fear my umbrella!")
3. You, we hear, confused the Nazgul (Could drown them as well.)
4. Add a note to a broken promenade and see her ("I wanted my own place."
5. A jumbled story between double hydrogen, for her ("I reject your offer.")

6. Note, related to an enclosed membrane, windingly, for her (...Or else you might get speared)
7. She reflects victory within returning endless joy (Like a bird set free)
8. Objectively, I...return the tack. (Gives good advice)
9. Egyptian God returns. When, we hear. For her.(Freedom of choice is the true freedom.)
10. An university, a definite article and a direction are in disarray for her (I believe in love)
11. 'Eh?' you hear her say 'Oh, victory." (A victory indeed.)
12. An endless Australian city (with a vowel switch), repeatedly. Reflect it for her. (Petty, many would say)

(Clues in parenthesis might help you in this one. ^_^)

[Galadriel55]

I think the closest to actual, acknowledged and official joint rule I can think of is Angrod and Aegnor as joint Lords of Dorthonion.

Thrones only seat one, clearly?

What about Amrod and Amras? I always imagine them together, but I can't actually recall if they split up their lands.



5. HALETH: H + TALE + H, rejected Caranthir's offer

2. probably LOBELIA, but I can only explain LI(E/A).

8. MELIAN: ME + NAIL

[Urwen]

1. She reflects an untruth, an edge and a rodent. (Until the very end.)
LOBELIA: A broken trunk. Untruth switches vowels, for her ("Fear my umbrella!")
3. You, we hear, confused the Nazgul (Could drown them as well.)
4. Add a note to a broken promenade and see her ("I wanted my own place."
HALETH: A jumbled story between double hydrogen, for her ("I reject your offer.")

6. Note, related to an enclosed membrane, windingly, for her (...Or else you might get speared)
7. She reflects victory within returning endless joy (Like a bird set free)
MELIAN: Objectively, I...return the tack. (Gives good advice)
9. Egyptian God returns. When, we hear. For her.(Freedom of choice is the true freedom.)
10. An university, a definite article and a direction are in disarray for her (I believe in love)
11. 'Eh?' you hear her say 'Oh, victory." (A victory indeed.)
12. An endless Australian city (with a vowel switch), repeatedly. Reflect it for her. (Petty, many would say)

[Galadriel55]

7. ELWING: WIN + GLE(E)

11. EOWYN: Eh + Oh + Win

[Urwen]

1. She reflects an untruth, an edge and a rodent. (Until the very end.)
LOBELIA: A broken trunk. Untruth switches vowels, for her ("Fear my umbrella!")
3. You, we hear, confused the Nazgul (Could drown them as well.)
4. Add a note to a broken promenade and see her ("I wanted my own place."
HALETH: A jumbled story between double hydrogen, for her ("I reject your offer.")

6. Note, related to an enclosed membrane, windingly, for her (...Or else you might get speared)
ELWING: She reflects victory within returning endless joy (Like a bird set free)
MELIAN: Objectively, I...return the tack. (Gives good advice)
9. Egyptian God returns. When, we hear. For her.(Freedom of choice is the true freedom.)
10. An university, a definite article and a direction are in disarray for her (I believe in love)
EOWYN: 'Eh?' you hear her say 'Oh, victory." (A victory indeed.)
12. An endless Australian city (with a vowel switch), repeatedly. Reflect it for her. (Petty, many would say)

[Pervinca Took]

The spearing clue suggests perhaps FINDUILAS for 6? (Well, it starts with a note ....)

[Urwen]

That awkward moment when you make a password for someone to try solving, and that person doesn't try at all... :(

[Huinesoron]

That awkward moment when you make a password for someone to try solving, and that person doesn't try at all... :(

Ooh, is the password GUILT TRIP and the theme 'sometimes people need a break even from games'? :p

#1 includes 'reflects... rodent', which suggests it's a TAR. Good news, there's only four women on that list, and this one must be LIE RIM - I mean, TAR MIRIEL.

#3 I wanted to go Movieverse and say ARWEN, but that doesn't contain an anagram of anything Nazgully. So who else has a water link...? Oh, it must be U NINE... sorry, UINEN.

#10 believes in love? I'm thinking UNI THE L... sorry, LUTHIEN.

Which gives TOU_H | _EM_LE_, which I'm thinking translates as TOUGH FEMALES.

So for #9 the god is RA. WEN? When it's time for ARWEN.

And #12, I'm less sure on, but SIDNEY without the Y can be paired with RE(peatedly) and reversed for ERENDIS. Though I think the city is spelt with a Y rather than an I.

hS

[Urwen]

Ooh, is the password GUILT TRIP and the theme 'sometimes people need a break even from games'? :p

I'd like you to say this when you're bored and have nothing else to do, but fine. Be insensitive to someone else's boredom. Next time you are bored, I will give you a cold shoulder like you did to me now. See how you'd like it. :mad:


You think you're the only person that matters, don't you? Who cares if someone else is bored out of their mind and can only entertain themselves at this point of time?


Well, then, go back to your precious break while I die of boredom. Hope my dead soul haunts you forever, murderer.

[Huinesoron]

I'd like you to say this when you're bored and have nothing else to do, but fine. Be insensitive to someone else's boredom. Next time you are bored, I will give you a cold shoulder like you did to me now. See how you'd like it. :mad:

I didn't think this needed saying, but yes: if you're - and I do mean you, personally, as well as anyone else - unable to cope with forum games, or you're bored with them, or even if you just don't feel like playing them, yes, you're absolutely entitled to take a break from them even if other people would like to play. I feel like if you need to pull back while you're the password setter it's probably polite to say so that someone else can take over; but if you're just a guesser, you're the only person who gets to say whether you play or not.

hS


You think you're the only person that matters, don't you? Who cares if someone else is bored out of their mind and can only entertain themselves at this point of time?

Well, then, go back to your precious break while I die of boredom. Hope my dead soul haunts you forever, murderer.

[Urwen]

Whatever, be a selfish bastard.

I officially declare this round dead since you people would rather see me dead than show concern for anyone else but yourselves.

Well, I will do the same. I will never post here again.

I made this round because I wanted to do you a favor, but you just proclaimed that you would happily see me die of boredom for your precious break.

[Urwen]

I will now die of boredom. Hope you're happy. :(

[Urwen]

And no, I am not allowing anyone else to take over either.

You all declared time and time again that you would rather see all the games on here die than play them. Stick to your words. You don't want to play, so let this game die like you repeatedly said you would. :rolleyes:

[Huinesoron]

I'm curious, Urwen - in your mind, have our recent sparse interactions included a prolonged conversation where you declared yourself deathly bored and told me you really needed me to try your Password, and I ignored your appeal, possibly by insulting you?

Because my memory is that none of that happened; that the first time you mentioned boredom at all is after I'd already replied to your oblique request that I try this Password by, in fact, trying this Password.

If the first thing somehow happened lately, please show me where, because I must have meant something very different to what you heard.

Of course, if you don't feel able to reply to this - for any reason or no reason - as I said earlier, that call is yours alone to make. Nobody here has the right to anyone else's time.

hS

[Urwen]

You and Galadriel both ignored my appeal to play. Twice. In the past year. And also proclaimed you have the right not to play even at the expense of other people's happiness/thread being continued. Also repeatedly.

[Huinesoron]

You and Galadriel both ignored my appeal to play. Twice. In the past year. And also proclaimed you have the right not to play even at the expense of other people's happiness/thread being continued. Also repeatedly.

Yes. The Downs is not a job, nor is it family (to whom I do hold myself obligated to respond), nor are any of us any manner of founder or community leader. Therefore, none of us - you, me, anyone - are required to participate.

You have the right to ask people to do so, but they have the right to choose whether to. On this occasion, I felt up to it, and not overly put-off by your way of asking. On other occasions, I have felt differently.

Given that you're reacting this way on an occasion I did what you asked for (sort of asked), I can only guess there's something happening in your life which has got you on edge. For that I'm sympathetic, but it doesn't make it okay to lash out at me like this.

Nor does it make the Password thread suitable for going so far off topic, so, whether you're interested or not:

I think #4 is GALADRIEL, based on the letter and (paren). The G could be a note, but can't really do the rest of it.

hS

[Urwen]

Okay. You want a choice. Here is a choice for you: either you guys play regularly, or I will die of boredom. Choose. Now.

[Galadriel55]

Okay. You want a choice. Here is a choice for you: either you guys play regularly, or I will die of boredom. Choose. Now.

I will say this for your sake, and this only. There are many threads on the Downs to choose from. If this thread does not get an immediate response, no one is stopping you from entertaining yourself with another one. But the reality of these games is that most of the time you will not get immediate responses, and should not expect immediate responses. You keep being disappointed at having to wait a couple days, which is an unreasonable expectation on your part. So, if you want to entertain yourself on the Downs in between responses here, you're always welcome to look at other threads and other sub-forums; Books has been pretty active lately, for instance. It's not okay to demand immediate participation from anyone and everyone each time something happens to make you upset, it's not okay to lash out at people if you're bored or in a bad mood. The only thing you will achieve by lashing out is to turn people away from you, you won't get more participation or more enthusiasm. So a choice for you, one that I do not dictate but merely predict: you play with the rest of the crowd, at the realistic pace of the Quiz room, and while waiting entertain yourself by other means. Or you will eventually turn people away with your outbursts and will not have a crowd to play with.

I will not prolong the derailing of this thread into a pointless debate. If you want to talk or rant about whatever's made you so angry that you need to lash out at people, you can PM me. I will not respond to any more demands of this kind though, and especially not on the thread. If you want to talk, let's have some mutual courtesy.

[Huinesoron]

All things considered, I think that's long enough to leave this one hanging. I still don't have a lot of brainspace, but I figured I'd throw a quick puzzle up for whoever wants it.

1. - Local stars: a misspelling of no fear about the mostly-doomed lot.
2. - Take one step, and note there a crunchy meat product; you might need some help.
3. - The fifth Roman, a liar? Not quite, but the queens might show up.
4. - Step forward, pick a sense, aim it at the henge: not Pippin's.
5. - Do not proceed through him - the repeat and three beforehand are gone! Try looking underground.

(And if anyone can solve #6 of the previous one, or provide an explanation for Galadriel as #4, I'd be very grateful. :) I've just spotted the 'with a vowel switch' which makes ERENDIS fit perfectly on #12, so I'm happy with that one.)

hS

[Galadriel55]

3. VALIER, from V + a liar

EDIT:

1. FEANOR, from an anagram of "no fear"? Though it seems that the clue is talking about more than one person.

[Huinesoron]

3. VALIER, from V + a liar

Precisely. :)


1. FEANOR, from an anagram of "no fear"? Though it seems that the clue is talking about more than one person.

Feanor is the solution to the 'no fear about' part, but there's still more clue to go.

1. - Local stars: a misspelling of no fear about the mostly-doomed lot.
2. - Take one step, and note there a crunchy meat product; you might need some help.
VALIER - The fifth Roman, a liar? Not quite, but the queens might show up.
4. - Step forward, pick a sense, aim it at the henge: not Pippin's.
5. - Do not proceed through him - the repeat and three beforehand are gone! Try looking underground.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Trying to make anything of "Centauri", or "Sirius" or "Milky Way" wasn't working. So, going backwards, if sounds like there are [local stars] of Feanor, which only gives so many options. It's hit or miss from here, but I found out we have a nearby star system called Ross, which almost anagrams to SONS OF FEANOR?

[Huinesoron]

Trying to make anything of "Centauri", or "Sirius" or "Milky Way" wasn't working. So, going backwards, if sounds like there are [local stars] of Feanor, which only gives so many options. It's hit or miss from here, but I found out we have a nearby star system called Ross, which almost anagrams to SONS OF FEANOR?

I know it's winter, but I like to think our local star is still visible at least sometimes... ;) yep, suns - er, sons - of Feanor it is, the whole mostly-doomed lot of 'em.

SONS OF FEANOR - Local stars: a misspelling of no fear about the mostly-doomed lot.
2. - Take one step, and note there a crunchy meat product; you might need some help.
VALIER - The fifth Roman, a liar? Not quite, but the queens might show up.
4. - Step forward, pick a sense, aim it at the henge: not Pippin's.
5. - Do not proceed through him - the repeat and three beforehand are gone! Try looking underground.

hS

[Galadriel55]

I know it's winter, but I like to think our local star is still visible at least sometimes... ;) yep, suns - er, sons - of Feanor it is, the whole mostly-doomed lot of 'em.

This makes me feel really stupid.


SEVEN for password?

[Huinesoron]

This makes me feel really stupid.

:-/ Sorry. In your defence, it's the Password thread - we've all had 'can't see the wood for the Ents' moments before.

SEVEN for password?

Yep!

SONS OF FEANOR - Local stars: a misspelling of no fear about the mostly-doomed lot.
2. ?E - Take one step, and note there a crunchy meat product; you might need some help.
VALIER - The fifth Roman, a liar? Not quite, but the queens might show up.
4. ?E - Step forward, pick a sense, aim it at the henge: not Pippin's.
5. N - Do not proceed through him - the repeat and three beforehand are gone! Try looking underground.

Spoilers: none of the answers are Swans a'Swimmin'.

hS

[Galadriel55]

4. SEEING STONE? Not sure about the first part, but then you add a "Stone"-henge, and it's certainly not Pippin's to look into.

[Pervinca Took]

4. SEEING STONE? Not sure about the first part, but then you add a "Stone"-henge, and it's certainly not Pippin's to look into.

And seeing is a sense. :)

You are doing fab. I feel quite dim! ;)

[Galadriel55]

And seeing is a sense. :)

Oh! That kind of sense! And not the kind I clearly don't have. ;)

I am at loss for the other two. Even trying to work backwards - despite the bountiful sets of seven, still it's a limited number of possibilities, there are only so many things this can be!

[Huinesoron]

4. SEEING STONE? Not sure about the first part, but then you add a "Stone"-henge, and it's certainly not Pippin's to look into.

And seeing is a sense. :)

You are doing fab. I feel quite dim! ;)

Exactly this; nice team effort! 'Step forward' was just to point at the second letter, because sevens don't like vowels much.

SONS OF FEANOR - Local stars: a misspelling of no fear about the mostly-doomed lot.
2. ?E - Take one step, and note there a crunchy meat product; you might need some help.
VALIER - The fifth Roman, a liar? Not quite, but the queens might show up.
SEEING STONE - Step forward, pick a sense, aim it at the henge: not Pippin's.
5. N - Do not proceed through him - the repeat and three beforehand are gone! Try looking underground.

#2 is relatively easy (what meat is crunchy?), #5 is a fairly obscure term for the answer (I suggest starting from the straight clue at the end).

hS

[Galadriel55]

I am running out of legitimate ideas, I'm starting to spin in circles of silliness. For instance:

#2 is relatively easy (what meat is crunchy?)

Is it sweet? Is it juicy? Is it scrumptiously crunchable? Is it dried or deep fried meat? No-ssss, my precious. It is Smeagol's seven teeth, before he lost the one just before he told Bilbo he had sixssss.


#5 is a fairly obscure term for the answer (I suggest starting from the straight clue at the end).

Underground makes me think of the seven Dwarven Houses and Rings, but while several Dwarf-related terms start with N there isn't one I can think of that is just seven.

So what 7 does start with N? Well, the 7 unnamed Nazgul, of course! That is, unless you count Tar-Telperien.


Pervinca, I think you better take a turn now, Gollum's seventh tooth is not good for the sanity. :p

[Huinesoron]

Is it sweet? Is it juicy? Is it scrumptiously crunchable? Is it dried or deep fried meat? No-ssss, my precious. It is Smeagol's seven teeth, before he lost the one just before he told Bilbo he had sixssss.

:D I know I said you might need some help, but I didn't think I meant 'in retaining your sanity'.


Underground makes me think of the seven Dwarven Houses and Rings, but while several Dwarf-related terms start with N there isn't one I can think of that is just seven.

At one point, there were simply just seven dwarves. (It's a little-known fact that 'Durin', in Khuzdul, translates as 'grumpy'.)

hS

[Galadriel55]

For the last one, I had a thought that the initial phrase can be comically rephrased as NO GO, which actually gave results: NOGOTHRIM is a name for Dwarves. However, Enc of Arda says this is a term for all Dwarves, not for the Seven Fathers or Seven Houses. Watch this be something like Nogothatari.

[Huinesoron]

For the last one, I had a thought that the initial phrase can be comically rephrased as NO GO, which actually gave results: NOGOTHRIM is a name for Dwarves. However, Enc of Arda says this is a term for all Dwarves, not for the Seven Fathers or Seven Houses. Watch this be something like Nogothatari.

N is not an easy letter. I justify it on the grounds that at one point, 'Nogothrim' (no + go + throughhim - [double H and the three letters before it]) did indeed only refer to seven people.

SONS OF FEANOR - Local stars: a misspelling of no fear about the mostly-doomed lot.
2. ?E - Take one step, and note there a crunchy meat product; you might need some help.
VALIER - The fifth Roman, a liar? Not quite, but the queens might show up.
SEEING STONE - Step forward, pick a sense, aim it at the henge: not Pippin's.
NOGOTHRIM - Do not proceed through him - the repeat and three beforehand are gone! Try looking underground.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Ok, I might actually need some help. Pervinca, I don't know if you have any ideas for the last one, but I'm dry.

[Pervinca Took]

Ok, I might actually need some help. Pervinca, I don't know if you have any ideas for the last one, but I'm dry.

Crunchy meat, though ... what could it be apart from biltong or jerky? Bacon? Crackling? Pork scratchings?

[Huinesoron]

Crunchy meat, though ... what could it be apart from biltong or jerky? Bacon? Crackling? Pork scratchings?

It is indeed one of those three. And it's only barely different from the answer to the clue

hS

[Mithalwen]

Is the step part ranga? I have been playing about with that and crackling and getting nowhere but can’t tet it out of thick skull

[Galadriel55]

Crunchy meat, though ... what could it be apart from biltong or jerky? Bacon? Crackling? Pork scratchings?

Pervinca, you're brilliant!

BEACON, from bacon + the note E. The seven beacons along Gondor's northern border.

Mith - ranga? I confess to being confused. But great to see you back here!

[Mithalwen]

Waves at beloved but neglected cub. I am currently furloughed so have a bit more time. A ranga if I remember aright is a Numenorean stride and unit of measurement . But clearly way off track

[Pervinca Took]

Beacons! Of course! They didn't even occur to me, I must confess.

A brilliant clue, as well.

[Huinesoron]

Pervinca, you're brilliant!

BEACON, from bacon + the note E. The seven beacons along Gondor's northern border.

And the beacons of Gondor it is. I had to count the list three times to be sure there were seven...

SONS OF FEANOR - Local stars: a misspelling of no fear about the mostly-doomed lot.
BEACON - Take one step, and note there a crunchy meat product; you might need some help.
VALIER - The fifth Roman, a liar? Not quite, but the queens might show up.
SEEING STONE - Step forward, pick a sense, aim it at the henge: not Pippin's.
NOGOTHRIM - Do not proceed through him - the repeat and three beforehand are gone! Try looking underground.

And done! Over to... you, I think? I don't even remember any more, I'm really worn out.

hS

[Galadriel55]

And the beacons of Gondor it is. I had to count the list three times to be sure there were seven...

Not the typical set of seven you'd expect - turned out to be quite the challenge to solve, but makes all the sense in the world once teamwork got us there. Great password!

Waves at beloved but neglected cub. I am currently furloughed so have a bit more time. A ranga if I remember aright is a Numenorean stride and unit of measurement . But clearly way off track

Way above my head. If anyone ever makes a clue where "step" is a Numenorian equivalent of "foot" or something, and not an indication of letter placement, it would be a seriously devious clue.

But hey, stick around and do some more of these!





1. "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start.
4. They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents.
5. Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled.
6. Measure money or weight, but do so thrice!
7. Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems.
8. A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. There you may hear a confused cheer.
10. Dying's son, by the sound of it.
11. Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous!
13. Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara.
14. Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. Comes after the initial entrance into the city.

[Mithalwen]

Yes but I didn’t get the step in things. I dismissed beacons as it didn’t begin with E:rolleyes:

[Pervinca Took]

13 is PALANTIR, I think. Spherical, has PLAN messed up and has TIARA with the last letter broken off.

9. ERECH is CHEER confused, but without needing to be heard to account for different spelling - does Aragorn hear the Oathbreakers here?

[Galadriel55]

Yes and yes. The hear part of cheer was not a sound-alike, just a way to inttoduce the cheer (what else do you do with it but hear it? You don't "find" it...)



1. "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start.
4. They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents.
5. Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled.
6. Measure money or weight, but do so thrice!
7. Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems.
8. A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer.
10. Dying's son, by the sound of it.
11. Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous!
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara.
14. Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. Comes after the initial entrance into the city.


Hey, look at me, finally learning to pre-highlight on the comouter so I can input this nicely on the phone!

[Pervinca Took]

8. NAIN? IN reversed (or not) plus NA for sodium?

And well done with the pre-highlighting!

[Galadriel55]

8. NAIN? IN reversed (or not) plus NA for sodium?

No. Wrong element.

[Galadriel55]

Judging by the lack of avalanches of answers, a hint or two may be in order. I don't know if the clues turned out to be more difficult than I anticiated, but most of them I think are pretty classic. Some may be hard to get initially but will fall like dominoes once you determine the theme. A general warning for this password that some lines do not have both straight and cryptic components, but the theme kind of provides the missing element. Also, not all answers have the password letter at the beginning, and I tried to indicate that as well. I think that 4, 5, 7, and 10 are probably the easiest, and are good places to start with.

[Pervinca Took]

5. Sarn Athrad.

Anagram with a note change, and a Ford.

7. Orthanc.

Or + than + c. A tower.

[Galadriel55]

Yes and yes again!


1. "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start.
4. They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents.
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled.
6. Measure money or weight, but do so thrice!
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems.
8. A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer.
10. Dying's son, by the sound of it.
11. Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous!
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara.
14. Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. Comes after the initial entrance into the city.

[Pervinca Took]

Is 11 ANGBAND? Not quite bang, band for music ... I'll get me coat .... ;)

[Galadriel55]

Is 11 ANGBAND? Not quite bang, band for music ... I'll get me coat .... ;)

Not Angband for that one.

[Pervinca Took]

Could 3 be BRANDYWINE BRIDGE? It sits over 2 drinks, cryptically speaking.

[Galadriel55]

Could 3 be BRANDYWINE BRIDGE? It's sits over 2 drinks, cryptically speaking.

It is! And it was skipped over on the start of the hobbits' journey. But you want a different name for it.

[Pervinca Took]

From Tolkien Gateway:

'In*Sindarin, the name of the bridge was*i Varanduiniant.*i*is the singular definite article "the", which causes the initial*b-*in*Baranduin*to take the*lenited*form*v-*(i.e.,*Varanduin); the final element*iant*means "bridge".'

Or Bridge of Stonebows, or Great Bridge?

[Galadriel55]

1. "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start.
4. They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents.
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled.
6. Measure money or weight, but do so thrice!
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems.
8. A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer.
10. Dying's son, by the sound of it.
11. Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous!
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara.
14. Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. Comes after the initial entrance into the city.


Any ideas about the theme so far?

[Pervinca Took]

STONE as a theme? 'Sarn Athrad' means 'stony ford' and you have used the 'stony' name for the Brandywine Bridge. Isn't there a black stone at Erech, too?

Ohhhh ...

6. THREE FARTHING STONE.

[Galadriel55]

Correct! The theme was actually inspired by Hui's last one. I got to the password SEVEN, and my first thought was how come there's no seven stars and seven stones. Later I figured out that it was Seeing Stone instead, and got the idea for this one.



THEME: STONE

1. "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents.
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. Dying's son, by the sound of it.
11. Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous!
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. Comes after the initial entrance into the city.

[Pervinca Took]

Wonder if 12 could be GIANTS or STONE GIANTS.

It has 'ants' in it.

[Galadriel55]

Wonder if 12 could be GIANTS or STONE GIANTS.

It has 'ants' in it.

Correct, GI ants.



THEME: STONE

1. "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents.
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. Dying's son, by the sound of it.
11. Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. Comes after the initial entrance into the city.

[Pervinca Took]

Just stone things?

Best stone things?

Most stone things?

4. TROLLS.

11. HORNBURG.

[Galadriel55]

11. HORNBURG.

This is half-right and definitely on the right track.




THEME: STONE

1. J "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. U Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. TROLLS: They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents. (frozen in the sunlight)
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. N A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. T Dying's son, by the sound of it.
11. H Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. G Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. S Comes after the initial entrance into the city.

[Mithalwen]

Is 15 Stone Gate? The second gate into Gondolin?

[Galadriel55]

Yesss!




THEME: STONE

1. J "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. U Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. TROLLS: They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents. (frozen in the sunlight)
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. N A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. T By the sound of it, dying's son.
11. H Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold.
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. G Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. SECOND GATE OF GONDOLIN: Comes after the initial entrance into the city. (Gate of Stone)

[Pervinca Took]

Knew one of Gondolin's gates must be stone, but didn't know which. ;)

Dying's son. Been thinking ELFSTONE.

Sounds like elf's son? Arwen is now dying too?

[Galadriel55]

Knew one of Gondolin's gates must be stone, but didn't know which. ;)

Dying's son. Been thinking ELFSTONE.

Sounds like elf's son? Arwen is now dying too?

Ahh, I see where the confusion is coming from for this clue. How about I fix it a little bit:

By the sound of it, dying's son.

[Pervinca Took]

Ahh, I see where the confusion is coming from for this clue. How about I fix it a little bit:

By the sound of it, dying's son.

G55, if any remaining clues are not initial red letter, do the clues contain indicators of this?

[Galadriel55]

G55, if any remaining clues are not initial red letter, do the clues contain indicators of this?

Yes. There are two remaining clues where the password letter is not the first letter of the answer, and both have indicators of that. The rest start with the red letter.


You were almost there with 11, you got half the word correct, and it's a related concept. You're this close to the answer.

And for 10, the answer is something I did not remember but looked up. However, the clue is phrased such that if you figure out what it means, you will be able to find the answer via something that you would know without having to look for it.

[Pervinca Took]

Is 11 HARROWDALE? Where the stronghold is, but without saying the car sound or the musical instrument?

[Mithalwen]

After a bit of digging I have found out that the horn burg was built on the horn rock.

[Galadriel55]

After a bit of digging I have found out that the horn burg was built on the horn rock.

Bingo!



THEME: STONE

1. J "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world.
2. U Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. TROLLS: They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents. (frozen in the sunlight)
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. N A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. T By the sound of it, dying's son.
11. HORNROCK: Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold. (a big outcropping of stone)
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. G Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. SECOND GATE OF GONDOLIN: Comes after the initial entrance into the city. (Gate of Stone)

[Galadriel55]

Some more hints for y'all:

2. "On the far side" is a letter placement indicator.

10. As I said before, an obscure answer via a well-known description. What does "dying" sound like?

14. Name the top three Tolkien things that come to mind when you hear "riders". And then the top three things when you hear "reluctant riders". I bet five bucks you'll name the concept of the answer.

1 and 8 are very well-known concepts. I recommend working backwards from the theme.

[Huinesoron]

You may picture me staggering in, rubbing my eyes and wondering if this is what 'not work but also not sleep' looks like...

Anyway, #1: if this is a soundalike, it could just be JEWELS OF FEANOR ('jools', rather).

[Stumbles out again for more work]

hS

[Galadriel55]

THEME: STONE

1. JEWELS OF FEANOR "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world. (the Silmaril stones)
2. U Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. TROLLS: They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents. (frozen in the sunlight)
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. N A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. T By the sound of it, dying's son.
11. HORNROCK: Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold. (a big outcropping of stone)
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. G Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. SECOND GATE OF GONDOLIN: Comes after the initial entrance into the city. (Gate of Stone)

[Galadriel55]

Alright, a few more hints for the remaining ones?

2. U: Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel.
"On the far side" indicates that the red letter is on the far half of the answer, and the straight clue is at the end. This is a less known name for a very well-known thing.

8. N: A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself.
"king" is the straight clue. What king can you think of that might be related to the stone theme?

10. T: By the sound of it, dying's son.
An augmentation to the clue: By the sound of it, dying's son is a god within.
Again, what sounds like "dying"? Find "dying", and you'll find the son.

14. G: Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
Seriously, post the top three things that come to mind when you think of Tolkien "riders", and examples for reluctant riders. I am sure you'll have the right ones, and I'll tell you if you get them.

[Pervinca Took]

DURIN is the king in halls of pillared stone, but where is the element? There's almost IRON, but not quite.

[Huinesoron]

14: Riders suggests Rohan/the Mark, Black Riders, and Warg Riders if they actually exist outside of the Jacksonian fever-dream. Reluctant riders suggests... like... hobbits? Dwarves? I feel like neither of them are fond of riding. Also maybe goblins, if there's something in The Hobbit about them not liking to ride.

It sounds like the clue is [note]+[riders with changed direction letter/s] = [reluctant riders].

#10: Probably "dying" starts with T... trying? Tying/tieing? Tie ink? Try thing? Timing? Tay mink? Tea drink? I mean, the first two are most plausible, but I can't find an answer from them. Thy thing?

#8: I've wanted this one to be FELAGUND the entire time, but it doesn't work with the clue. Isildur and Anarion are kings carved in stone (the Argonath); all the kings of Gondor ("Stone-Land") technically qualify, as more tentatively does Turgon of Gondolin ("Hidden Rock"), and of course any dwarf (but I think Nain is the only N-name, and that's already been a no, right?). (I would love it to be NOM, but I don't think it works.)

#2: I've been thinking 'brain' for 'pinnacle organ', but if 'far side' is a place indicator... that could be MOUNT... something. MOUNT FANG? It at least has a U in it... or AMON UILOS (Taniquetil), which means 'Mount... Everwhite', but maybe Uilos sounds like some organ I can't think of.

hS

[Galadriel55]

14: Riders suggests Rohan/the Mark, Black Riders, and Warg Riders if they actually exist outside of the Jacksonian fever-dream. Reluctant riders suggests... like... hobbits? Dwarves?

Riders of Rohan it is, by another name. And... yes, by another name.

It sounds like the clue is [note]+[riders with changed direction letter/s] = [reluctant riders].

Yes.


#10: Probably "dying" starts with T... trying? Tying/tieing? Tie ink? Try thing? Timing? Tay mink? Tea drink? I mean, the first two are most plausible, but I can't find an answer from them. Thy thing?

No. Starts with D, and you're looking for the father of the person that is the answer to the clue, who does start with T.

EDIT: to clarify, cause in retrospect this might have been ambiguous. "Dying" = the father, starting with D. The answer is the son, starting with T.

DURIN is the king in halls of pillared stone, but where is the element? There's almost IRON, but not quite.

#8: I've wanted this one to be FELAGUND the entire time, but it doesn't work with the clue. Isildur and Anarion are kings carved in stone (the Argonath); all the kings of Gondor ("Stone-Land") technically qualify, as more tentatively does Turgon of Gondolin ("Hidden Rock"), and of course any dwarf (but I think Nain is the only N-name, and that's already been a no, right?). (I would love it to be NOM, but I don't think it works.)

Hmm, this might have been less obvious than I thought. None of the above. Keep in mind that the king is reversed, ie his name ends on N. And the stone element comes from this kings alternative name.

#2: I've been thinking 'brain' for 'pinnacle organ', but if 'far side' is a place indicator... that could be MOUNT... something. MOUNT FANG? It at least has a U in it... or AMON UILOS (Taniquetil), which means 'Mount... Everwhite', but maybe Uilos sounds like some organ I can't think of.

You're right about mountains being involved in the answer. But "Mount Fang" puts the U in the first half of the word, and you want it to be on the far half. Also, important as brains are, there is yet a more important organ. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

Thorin Stonehelm for 8?

Not sure about the element ... hang on, it has IRON in it.

[Galadriel55]

Thorin Stonehelm for 8?

Not sure about the element ... hang on, it has IRON in it.

You have the right answer for the wrong clue. This is indeed one of the answers, but not for #8. Can you figure out which one?

The king in #8 is, hmmm... the king. A very well known one. Who, by a different but also widely known name, is connected to the stone theme. And the element in his name is not iron but something else.


The longer this goes, the more I think some of these clues were too difficult. I'm sorry if that's the case, I really did not expect these ones to be left over. I'm open to rewriting these clues if you think that would help.

[Huinesoron]

The longer this goes, the more I think some of these clues were too difficult. I'm sorry if that's the case, I really did not expect these ones to be left over. I'm open to rewriting these clues if you think that would help.

Well for my part, I'm still feeling dull and worn, actually not to dissimilar to butter scraped over too much Bilbo. I don't think it's so much difficult clues as difficult time.

You have the right answer for the wrong clue. This is indeed one of the answers, but not for #8. Can you figure out which one?

So... based purely on the elaborated clue, Thor + In = THORIN for #10. I admit I'd forgotten Stonehelm even existed, but even so I'd rhyme Dain with Pain, so it was a bit far off from dying in my accent. (I see it does have an accent on the A, so you're probably quite right, but I never flagged that.)


The king in #8 is, hmmm... the king. A very well known one. Who, by a different but also widely known name, is connected to the stone theme. And the element in his name is not iron but something else.

It's got to be Elessar the Elfstone, right? As you say, he is the King of the title... he's got a few names ending in N, including the obvious, but none leap out as including "an element mixed with itself". I'll guess DUNADAN, which can be parsed as U[ranium] + AND + AND: 'mixed with itself' could just about mean 'and, with another and'.

Riders of Rohan it is, by another name. And... yes, by another name.

Eorlingas/Rohirrim/Eotheod, possibly. The G would be the note, giving Georlingas/Grohirrim/Geotheod, which at least parse as English words (Gnorthmen doesn't). Then change one or more direction letters to reach... either dwarves or hobbits.

I mean, hobbits don't have much of a stone connection, so dwarves? There doesn't seem to be a group name starting with G for dwarves, but either Gundabad or Gabilgathol (Belegost) could work. But I can't get there from the first half, so I remain stumped.

EDIT: #2... HEART OF THE MOUNTAIN? Organ, pinnacle, caused a minor argy-bargy between approximately everyone.

hS

[Galadriel55]

THEME: STONE

1. JEWELS OF FEANOR "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world. (the Silmaril stones)
2. HEART OF THE MOUNTAIN: Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel. (the Arkenstone)
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. TROLLS: They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents. (frozen in the sunlight)
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. N A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself. (Ellessar, the Elfstone)
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. THORIN: By the sound of it, dying's son. (also known as Stonehelm)
11. HORNROCK: Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold. (a big outcropping of stone)
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. G Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders.
15. SECOND GATE OF GONDOLIN: Comes after the initial entrance into the city. (Gate of Stone)



Well for my part, I'm still feeling dull and worn, actually not to dissimilar to butter scraped over too much Bilbo. I don't think it's so much difficult clues as difficult time.

I cannot relate more. I've been feeling more and more like Frodo on the final trek to the mountain, or perhaps like too little nutrition scaped over too mucb sleep deprivation. Hence no updates on the Mirth threads from me (but soon... maybe). The 5 minutes of Downs a day has been keeping me sane.

So... based purely on the elaborated clue, Thor + In = THORIN for #10. I admit I'd forgotten Stonehelm even existed, but even so I'd rhyme Dain with Pain, so it was a bit far off from dying in my accent. (I see it does have an accent on the A, so you're probably quite right, but I never flagged that.)

Ah, that explains it. I thought Dying=Dain would be the easiest one to get, and then you just look up who his son is. I pronounce all the -ain Dwarf names that way, Dain, Nain, Thrain... Do you say them all like Pain?

It's got to be Elessar the Elfstone, right? As you say, he is the King of the title... he's got a few names ending in N, including the obvious, but none leap out as including "an element mixed with itself". I'll guess DUNADAN, which can be parsed as U[ranium] + AND + AND: 'mixed with itself' could just about mean 'and, with another and'.

Yes, and no. It is an obvious name, so don't go looking for obscurities. And you want an element moxed with the same element for the cryptic part.

Eorlingas/Rohirrim/Eotheod, possibly. The G would be the note, giving Georlingas/Grohirrim/Geotheod, which at least parse as English words (Gnorthmen doesn't). Then change one or more direction letters to reach... either dwarves or hobbits.

I mean, hobbits don't have much of a stone connection, so dwarves? There doesn't seem to be a group name starting with G for dwarves, but either Gundabad or Gabilgathol (Belegost) could work. But I can't get there from the first half, so I remain stumped.

You are right it is Dwarves. And in this name, particularly connected to stone, even more so than in general concept.

Work with Rohirrim. See if there is a very similar-sounding name for Dwarves, starting with G.

[Huinesoron]

Ah, that explains it. I thought Dying=Dain would be the easiest one to get, and then you just look up who his son is. I pronounce all the -ain Dwarf names that way, Dain, Nain, Thrain... Do you say them all like Pain?

I do, and now I need to check if they all have accents. [Checks] They do, and so I have learned something today. :)

I wonder whether I heard an audio Hobbit when I was young - "Thorin son of Thrain son of Thror" is right there in my head. But the only one I remember owning (on cassette tape!) I don't think I ever listened to. (I did have a copy of Tolkien reading the Riddle-Game, but the dwarves amp't in that.)


You are right it is Dwarves. And in this name, particularly connected to stone, even more so than in general concept.

Work with Rohirrim. See if there is a very similar-sounding name for Dwarves, starting with G.

The only word stuck in my head is Go-Hilleg, which is a Mannish name for the Numenorean invaders, so it's definitely not that. :-/

EDIT: Oh for Aule's sake, who let the Sindar get their grubby little mitts on the language? GONNHIRRIM, not a disease, but a group noun for the dwarves. I should have listened to my mind yelling "Gondobar!" at me sooner, it'd've pointed me in the right direction.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I don't get how Thorin sounds like dying. To me it only sounds like defrosting! (Thawing). ;)

[Galadriel55]

And now I realize that I was misspelling Gonnhirrim, I thought there was only one N. Oops.


THEME: STONE

1. JEWELS OF FEANOR "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world. (the Silmaril stones)
2. HEART OF THE MOUNTAIN: Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel. (the Arkenstone)
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. TROLLS: They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents. (frozen in the sunlight)
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. N A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself. (Ellessar, the Elfstone)
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. THORIN: By the sound of it, dying's son. (also known as Stonehelm)
11. HORNROCK: Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold. (a big outcropping of stone)
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. GONNHIRRIM: Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders. (the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone)
15. SECOND GATE OF GONDOLIN: Comes after the initial entrance into the city. (Gate of Stone)


I don't get how Thorin sounds like dying. To me it only sounds like defrosting! (Thawing). ;)

Thorin III Stonehelm's father is Dain. Thorin is "dying's son".


Tbh, my pronounciation of the 'Ains is not so much from the accents as from the Russian translation, where the vowels are more explicit. So it's by coincidence of exposure too I suppose that I pronounce it as "dying".



Last clue to go. And you already know the identity of the subject. :)

[Pervinca Took]

Aragorn and Argon mixed with Ar?

[Galadriel55]

That's the one! I feel like the same element mixed with its own symbol in his name should have been exploited by now either here or in the Cryptics thread, but I can't recall such a clue at least in the recent past.



THEME: STONE

1. JEWELS OF FEANOR "Choose a fair more!" - you hear from the corners of the world. (the Silmaril stones)
2. HEART OF THE MOUNTAIN: Pinnacle organ on the far side is a cause for quarrel. (the Arkenstone)
3. BRIDGE OF STONEBOWS: Sits across two drinks, skips two starts, and skipped on the greatest start. (a stone bridge)
4. TROLLS: They party at night, like in most Rolls-Royce incidents. (frozen in the sunlight)
5. SARN ATHRAD: Ford ran threads, but note difference when they tangled. (stony ford)
6. THREE FARTHING STONE: Measure money or weight, but do so thrice! (well... it's a stone)
7. ORTHANC: Tower alternatively compares to the sea, it seems. (both a stone and a rock!)
8. NROGARA: A king in reverse is an element mixed with itself. (Ellessar, the Elfstone)
9. ERECH: There you may hear a confused cheer. (Stone of Erech, brought by Isildur)
10. THORIN: By the sound of it, dying's son. (also known as Stonehelm)
11. HORNROCK: Not a car sound, nor the music, but the site of a stronghold. (a big outcropping of stone)
12. GIANTS: Step up! The gutsy insects grew enormous! (Stone giants of the Misty Mountains)
13. PALANTIR: Sphere in the middle of a messed up plan and a broken off tiara. (seeing stone)
14. GONNHIRRIM: Note riders exchange directions with reluctant riders. (the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone)
15. SECOND GATE OF GONDOLIN: Comes after the initial entrance into the city. (Gate of Stone)



And over to Pervinca!

[Huinesoron]

Aragorn and Argon mixed with Ar?

...

...

Mandos take it, I should have got that! I'm going to have to hand in my Chemist badge... :-/

Nice puzzle, G55, and nice solving, Pervinca! Especially that last one... ai, I'm never going to live that down.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I was thinking 'heart of the mountain' but didn't make the connections. And I didn't do much solving at all! Don't know if it's the news and the lockdown, but my brain doesn't seem to be working very well. It was a great password, though!

I'll try to post one soon.

[Galadriel55]

Mandos take it, I should have got that! I'm going to have to hand in my Chemist badge... :-/

If it makes you feel any better, I recall kicking myself for not getting a simple anatomy-based clue, something related to the uterus (possibly uterine --> Turin? can't recall). I went up and down the anatomy of the entire female reproductive tract that time and missed the most obvious thing. What can you do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Pervinca Took]

That's the one! I feel like the same element mixed with its own symbol in his name should have been exploited by now either here or in the Cryptics thread, but I can't recall such a clue at least in the recent past.

I thought that was what you meant, and tried that method early on, but couldn't find the right element. So wondered if 'with itself' was the ego or the id or something, or the element was fire or water or something, or the sort you find inside a kettle. :D

Losing it? Moi?

[Pervinca Took]

Here we go, then:

1. Food storage source, albeit deep? So long!
2. Palindromic dwarf? Different nasal and a shuffle produces a place of mirth.
3. Wax lyrical, grain! One hopes it’s happening to bread.
4. Glistening part of a leg – wherefore, we hear?
5. Song comes between article and element for him.
6. A well-governed Dashwood is nonetheless in turmoil here.
7. Press this substance.
8. Organ of negative direction.
9. Pluralise a palindrome that sounds like another. They’ll stare you in the face.
10: Oswald Alving craved it. The last thing he ever craved.

[Galadriel55]

4. SHINY: shin + Y?

This already seems like a very interesting password...


ETA: a tentative NOSE for #8 - "no" + South East?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Food storage source, albeit deep? So long!
2. Palindromic dwarf? Different nasal and a shuffle produces a place of mirth.
3. Wax lyrical, grain! One hopes it’s happening to bread.
SHINY: Glistening part of a leg – wherefore, we hear?
5. Song comes between article and element for him.
6. A well-governed Dashwood is nonetheless in turmoil here.
7. Press this substance.
NOSE: Organ of negative direction.
9. Pluralise a palindrome that sounds like another. They’ll stare you in the face.
10: Oswald Alving craved it. The last thing he ever craved.

ETA, G55? Estimated time of arrival?

[Galadriel55]

6. I wanna say the Dashwood is Elinor, but the closest place I can think of requires a letter swap too, for LINDOR.

ETA, G55? Estimated time of arrival?

Edit to add. I feel like I picked it up somewhere on the Downs (Werewolf perhaps?), and it's been confusing non-Werewolf people ever since.

[Pervinca Took]

Elinor is the right Dashwood. The one who governs her feelings. You are going to kick yourself when you realise where the place (not Lindor) is. ;)

Although I thank you for making me think of chocolate. :D

[Galadriel55]

Elinor is the right Dashwood. The one who governs her feelings. You are going to kick yourself when you realise where the place (not Lindor) is. ;)

Although I thank you for making me think of chocolate. :D

*facepalm* I was totally thinking of Lindon, but this was a hilarious memory-slip. :D

[Pervinca Took]

It's not Lindon. ;)

[Galadriel55]

LORIEN. :rolleyes:

[Pervinca Took]

1. Food storage source, albeit deep? So long!
2. Palindromic dwarf? Different nasal and a shuffle produces a place of mirth.
3. Wax lyrical, grain! One hopes it’s happening to bread.
SHINY: Glistening part of a leg – wherefore, we hear?
5. Song comes between article and element for him.
LORIEN: A well-governed Dashwood is nonetheless in turmoil here.
7. Press this substance.
NOSE: Organ of negative direction.
9. Pluralise a palindrome that sounds like another. They’ll stare you in the face.
10: Oswald Alving craved it. The last thing he ever craved.

[Galadriel55]

I am now completely at loss for the other clues, but have a few beginnings of thoughts that may or may not be going in the right direction.

2. Going through various dwarves in mh head, I can only think of Mim. Swap an M for an N and shuffle, and you get... MNI? IMN? Do I even have the right dwarf?

3. Going through different types of grain hasn't inspired an answer, but if you can hope something is happening to bread, you hope that it will RISE?

[Pervinca Took]

You are so close ... Mim is the right dwarf. And you have the right nasal. But the nasal consonant appears twice. 'Different nasal' meant change to usage of a different nasal. In other words, use that different nasal in all/both instances.

RISE is almost the answer, but what do we hope our bread will BE DOING? Make that adjustment and you'll be ordering a cereal to wax lyrical.

The two that you guessed first - SHINY and NOSE - are actually the most difficult, theme and password-wise, because they are 'joking' fulfilments of it. ;) And together, they *sort* of almost hint at the theme in a way I didn't think of when I chose them. ;)

[Galadriel55]

There was an INN, a merry old INN. Nice. :)

RISING?... Oh. As in rye sing?

[Pervinca Took]

1. Food storage source, albeit deep? So long!
INN: Palindromic dwarf? Different nasal and a shuffle produces a place of mirth.
RISING: Wax lyrical, grain! One hopes it’s happening to bread.
SHINY: Glistening part of a leg – wherefore, we hear?
5. Song comes between article and element for him.
LORIEN: A well-governed Dashwood is nonetheless in turmoil here.
7. Press this substance.
NOSE: Organ of negative direction.
9. Pluralise a palindrome that sounds like another. They’ll stare you in the face.
10: Oswald Alving craved it. The last thing he ever craved.

[Galadriel55]

10. So I am not familiar with Oswald Aling, bit looking up the play I wonder if it might be DEATH.

[Pervinca Took]

10. So I am not familiar with Oswald Aling, bit looking up the play I wonder if it might be DEATH.

A good answer, but not the right one. He does ask his mother to kill him if he has another attack and ends up unable to do anything for himself.

But I'm after the thing he asks for in the *very last lines* of the play.

[Galadriel55]

A good answer, but not the right one. He does ask his mother to kill him if he has another attack and ends up unable to do anything for himself.

But I'm after the thing he asks for in the *very last lines* of the play.

You're gonna make me read the real thing, right?

...the sun! Give me the sun!

[Galadriel55]

I am a bit at loss at what the theme or the password could be, though there are certainly plenty of letters. But it just occurred to me that the Moon might in some way be a connecting point with several of these. "Shiny" and "rising" are reasonable descriptions, the Inn is where the Man in the Moon goes to drink his fill, and someone (Frodo?) is befuddled by the moon after leaving Lorien, not realizing a whole month has passed. Don't know about nose, but maybe Tilion had a honker.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Food storage source, albeit deep? So long!
INN: Palindromic dwarf? Different nasal and a shuffle produces a place of mirth.
RISING: Wax lyrical, grain! One hopes it’s happening to bread.
SHINY: Glistening part of a leg – wherefore, we hear?
5. Song comes between article and element for him.
LORIEN: A well-governed Dashwood is nonetheless in turmoil here.
7. Press this substance.
NOSE: Organ of negative direction.
9. Pluralise a palindrome that sounds like another. They’ll stare you in the face.
SUN: Oswald Alving craved it. The last thing he ever craved.

The theme isn't the sun or moon or anything particularly shiny, I'm afraid.

My advice: ignore 'shiny' and 'nose' for now, and look carefully at the letters you have guessed so far.

[Galadriel55]

FIRST LINES for the password?

[Pervinca Took]

F: Food storage source, albeit deep? So long!
INN: Palindromic dwarf? Different nasal and a shuffle produces a place of mirth. (There is an inn, a merry old inn)
RISING: Wax lyrical, grain! One hopes it’s happening to bread. (Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising)
SHINY: Glistening part of a leg – wherefore, we hear? (When Bilbo found that shiny ring)*
T: Song comes between article and element for him.

LÓRIEN: A well-governed Dashwood is nonetheless in turmoil here. (In Dwimordene, in Lórien)
I: Press this substance.
NOSE: Organ of negative direction. (I sit on the floor and pick my nose)**
E: Pluralise a palindrome that sounds like another. They’ll stare you in the face.
SUN: Oswald Alving craved it. The last thing he ever craved. (West of the Moon, East of the Sun)

* From 'Frodooooo of the Niiiiiine Fingerrrrrrrs, and the Ring of Dooooooom.'
** From the parody of 'I sit beside the fire and think' in 'Bored Of The Rings.'

[Galadriel55]

THEODEN = the + ode + N

Thank you for providing the asterisked sources. I have spotted most answers but was very puzzled about which poem I was missing that could possibly begin with "nose". :D

[Huinesoron]

Could that final E be EYES, the plural of eye (which sounds like also-palindrome I)? I can't think of a poem that has it in the right place (one stanza of Aragorn's condensed Lay of Leithian opens with 'As Beren looked into her eyes', but that's as close as I get), but it seems to fit.

This is a very clever password!

hS

[Mithalwen]

Hello and Farewell for F Fare & well?

[Pervinca Took]

Eyes, Farewell and Theoden are correct. Sorry, no time to put them in just now.

Huey: 'Day is ended, dim my eyes.'

[Huinesoron]

Huey: 'Day is ended, dim my eyes.'

Ooooh yeah, that's a lovely song. :)

So just the I... could it be IRON? An iron presses clothes, and it appears in Ere iron was found or tree was hewn, when Gandalf plays the riddle-game and Theoden concedes.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

IRON is correct. Was that the last one? If so, well done all, and over to G55.

[Galadriel55]

Thanks, Pervinca! That was a wonderful password!

Unfortunately I probably won't be able to get anything up in the next few days. If anyone wants to go ahead, the floor is open. Or I'll put one up mid-next week.

[Pervinca Took]

FAREWELL: Food storage source, albeit deep? So long! (Farewell sweet earth and northern sky)
INN: Palindromic dwarf? Different nasal and a shuffle produces a place of mirth. (There is an inn, a merry old inn)
RISING: Wax lyrical, grain! One hopes it’s happening to bread. (Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising)
SHINY: Glistening part of a leg – wherefore, we hear? (When Bilbo found that shiny ring)*
THEODEN: Song comes between article and element for him. (Arise now, arise, Riders of Théoden!)

LÓRIEN: A well-governed Dashwood is nonetheless in turmoil here. (In Dwimordene, in Lórien)
IRON: Press this substance. (Ere iron was found or tree was hewn)
NOSE: Organ of negative direction. (I sit on the floor and pick my nose)**
EYES: Pluralise a palindrome that sounds like another. They’ll stare you in the face. (Day is ended, dim my eyes)
SUN: Oswald Alving craved it. The last thing he ever craved. (West of the Moon, East of the Sun)

* From 'Frodooooo of the Niiiiiine Fingerrrrrrrs, and the Ring of Dooooooom.'
** From the parody of 'I sit beside the fire and think' in 'Bored Of The Rings.'

[Galadriel55]

Well, I'm back. And by the look of it I am still up. So here is one. But fair warning, the theme on this one turned out a bit looser than I initially intended.


1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. Green land, after the resurrection.

[Pervinca Took]

3. In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.

CARAS GALADHON?

CARS + GLAD + A + A + HON(K)

and it's in a forest.

[Huinesoron]

#6: 'See hear' = C + rise as grim = CRISSAEGRIM, part of the Encircling Mountains of Gondolin.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could 5 be Deadmen's Dyke? I think a dyke can mean a marsh or fen, and that one could contain remains of northmen.

[Galadriel55]

Yes to the first two, but no to Deadmen's Dyke.


1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. Green land, after the resurrection.

[Huinesoron]

#1: CELON is a 4/5 letter match for 'canoe', and... y'know... sailing, river.

5: The fens I can think of are Serech, Aelin-uial/fens of Sirion, the Gladden Fields, and the Nindalf/Wetwang at the Mouths of Entwash. The Sirion delta might also count. I can't conjure up an answer from those areas though.

hS

[Galadriel55]

#1: CELON is a 4/5 letter match for 'canoe', and... y'know... sailing, river.

On the right track, but one step simpler than your answer.

5: The fens I can think of are Serech, Aelin-uial/fens of Sirion, the Gladden Fields, and the Nindalf/Wetwang at the Mouths of Entwash. The Sirion delta might also count. I can't conjure up an answer from those areas though.

You have the right fens in there, but the fen is not the answer, rather a clue to the (rather unusual) answer.

[Huinesoron]

You have the right fens in there, but the fen is not the answer, rather a clue to the (rather unusual) answer.

... it's not Isildur's Bones, is it? I mean, he was King of the North Kingdom, and they were canonically found in the fen area.

I'm assuming not, but I'd kick myself if I didn't ask...

hS

[Galadriel55]

... it's not Isildur's Bones, is it? I mean, he was King of the North Kingdom, and they were canonically found in the fen area.

I'm assuming not, but I'd kick myself if I didn't ask...

hS

No. But the silliness is of the right kind to get you there. :D Different fen, and different, erm, bones. :D

[Pervinca Took]

Is it the candles of corpses in the Dead Marshes?

[Huinesoron]

No. But the silliness is of the right kind to get you there. :D Different fen, and different, erm, bones. :D

:eek: See now you've got me thinking of Finrod's honour-guard at Serech.

For these it was, the chosen men
of Beor's house, who in the fen
of reedy Serech stood at bay
about King Inglor in the day
of his defeat, and with their swords
thus saved of all the Elven-lords
the fairest; and his love they earned.

The Lay implies that Barahir's outlaws were the last survivors of Serech, which makes it a brutal winnowing indeed.

... oh heck, Huor died at Serech during the Nirnaeth, along with 'all the valiant Men of Hador'. That's two of the Houses of the Edain practically wiped out in the same sodden marsh. o.O And apparently Celegorm destroyed a massive orc-host there, too... place must have been hecka haunted.

Oh, there's the Dead Marshes, too; but I think you said I'd already found the right fen.

(Why does Tolkien like covering marshes in bodies so much?)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Is it the candles of corpses in the Dead Marshes?

No. It is more literal than you might think, and the specific wording of the answer is found in a passage. This is a weird clue, especially to start with.

[Huinesoron]

Letting the dead lie for a moment, and going on to #9: could this be ERYN LASGALEN (or 'Wood of Green Leaves')? It's the new name of the Greenwood after it was restored ('resurrected') from being Mirkwood.

#1: 'cano' is a Quenya/Telerin word ('commander' or 'herald') but I don't think that's very useful. I suppose it could always be CANON... ;)

#4: purely based on the possible straight clue ('tower over the valley'), this could be CIRITH UNGOL. 'Cirith' is pretty close to 'cirth', which brings in the reading connection.

It's taken me embarassingly long to realise that the Downs puts serifs on 'I', and so clue #7 ends with a lowercase L instead. The structure of the clue suggests it could be LIKE (or LUST, if you're feeling slashy), but more literally, what you need in the dark land is LIGHT.

hS

[Galadriel55]

:eek: See now you've got me thinking of Finrod's honour-guard at Serech.

The Lay implies that Barahir's outlaws were the last survivors of Serech, which makes it a brutal winnowing indeed.

... oh heck, Huor died at Serech during the Nirnaeth, along with 'all the valiant Men of Hador'. That's two of the Houses of the Edain practically wiped out in the same sodden marsh. o.O And apparently Celegorm destroyed a massive orc-host there, too... place must have been hecka haunted.

Oh, there's the Dead Marshes, too; but I think you said I'd already found the right fen.

(Why does Tolkien like covering marshes in bodies so much?)

hS

I totally missed this post, as I've cross-posted my reply to Pervinca! The Valiant Men of Hador are the correct answer, but by a different term, found in the same paragraph. The reason for that is two-fold: for the letter, and for the somewhat frivolous reason it belongs in the theme.


Letting the dead lie for a moment, and going on to #9: could this be ERYN LASGALEN (or 'Wood of Green Leaves')? It's the new name of the Greenwood after it was restored ('resurrected') from being Mirkwood.

Good thought, but you're looking for a different green land and resurrection.

#1: 'cano' is a Quenya/Telerin word ('commander' or 'herald') but I don't think that's very useful. I suppose it could always be CANON...

It's not "canoe" or its derivatives.

No to the other two (and yes, that's an L---).

[Huinesoron]

I totally missed this post, as I've cross-posted my reply to Pervinca! The Valiant Men of Hador are the correct answer, but by a different term, found in the same paragraph. The reason for that is two-fold: for the letter, and for the somewhat frivolous reason it belongs in the theme.

They're the REMNANT OF HITHLUM in that same passage, which I think is a direct synonym of 'remainder of the northmen'. Other than that, they're 'a heap', which seems a bit blunt. ;)


Good thought, but you're looking for a different green land and resurrection.

Well, I mean, technically...

They buried the body of Felagund upon the hill-top of his own isle, and it was clean again; and the green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained inviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under destroying seas. But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.

But that sparks a further thought, which points me down to TOL GALEN, the Green Isle of the Land of the Dead-that-Live.

(The Lay must be the most resurrection-y story in all of Tolkien...)

hS

[Galadriel55]

They're the REMNANT OF HITHLUM in that same passage, which I think is a direct synonym of 'remainder of the northmen'. Other than that, they're 'a heap', which seems a bit blunt. ;)

"A heap" is perfect. :D

But that sparks a further thought, which points me down to TOL GALEN, the Green Isle of the Land of the Dead-that-Live.

Tol-Galen was what it was before the resurrection. You want the name once the Dead-That-Live lived. :)




1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. Green land, after the resurrection.

[Huinesoron]

Tol-Galen was what it was before the resurrection. You want the name once the Dead-That-Live lived. :)


Dor Firn-i-Guinar, then? I don't think they renamed the actual island, but that's what they called South Ossiriand.

And later still, looking at the composite map (https://i.imgur.com/NnXmPjT.png), it ought to be somewhere in Harlindon. There might even be enough wiggle room to place it directly under Harlond, the haven on the southern banks of Lhun.

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR: Green land, after the resurrection.


Dor Firn-i-Guinar, then? I don't think they renamed the actual island, but that's what they called South Ossiriand.

Huh, didn't know that. I thought the Land of the DTL was the island itself, and Dor FiG was the Elvish translation.

[Huinesoron]

Huh, didn't know that. I thought the Land of the DTL was the island itself, and Dor FiG was the Elvish translation.

I think the text ascribes both names to "the lands about Tol Galen"; what exactly that constitutes is unclear.

(A slightly rejigged map (https://i.imgur.com/8lEZaVg.png) confirms it's right down in Harlindon, nowhere near the Haven; you can see the Adurant as the final blue/purple line running right through the word 'South'.)

hS

[Galadriel55]

I think the text ascribes both names to "the lands about Tol Galen"; what exactly that constitutes is unclear.

In that case, my apologies. I was fully convinced it was synonymous with Tol Galen, and wouldn't have chosen that term if I knew it referred to lands beyond the island.


1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.

[Huinesoron]

I do keep coming back and staring at this, hoping for some new insight.

#8: "Short mass arm chore in a muddle" sounds like we either need to be mixing synonyms for the four words, or 'short mass' (M or W?) with synonyms for arm and chore. The straight clue is something to do with walls...

Oh. My failing here was not checking the names. There's two named 'walls' in Middle-earth - the cliff in Beleriand and the wall about the Pelennor - and I'd got them as Andram and Ramdal. But Ramdal is a part of Andram... the one in Gondor is Arm Mas Chore... sorry, I mean RAMMAS ECHOR. Guessing the password letter is the E ('second half').

Which means I was once again overcomplicating things by assuming synonyms when they weren't needed. ^_^ So perhaps #1 is just a scrambling of most of 'kayak'? But I can't find an answer in that.

New page:

1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.


Indeed! I think you'll find a lot of the clues are this way. You're also right about kayak - well, almost.

[Huinesoron]

#2: D is 500 in Roman numerals, so 'No D or G' is a possible translation of the first half; mixed up, you find GONDOR.

hS

[Galadriel55]

#2: D is 500 in Roman numerals, so 'No D or G' is a possible translation of the first half; mixed up, you find GONDOR.

hS

Nope. You are again taking unnecessary steps, you don't need to find specific numbers. You do need a specific note, but it's just to remove a letter, and you'll know which one to remove.

[Huinesoron]

Nope. You are again taking unnecessary steps, you don't need to find specific numbers. You do need a specific note, but it's just to remove a letter, and you'll know which one to remove.

Ummm. NONUMBER minus B gives NUMENOR, I think?

hS

[Galadriel55]

Ummm. NONUMBER minus B gives NUMENOR, I think?

Yes, precisely. ^.^

Any thoughts about the password?


1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. NUMENOR: No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.

[Pervinca Took]

Encircled?

But I'm sure Huey would have got that, and he's done nearly all the work. I relinquish all rights to the next password.

[Huinesoron]

Encircled?

But I'm sure Huey would have got that, and he's done nearly all the work. I relinquish all rights to the next password.

Oh, hey, that makes sense! I was still at the 'the last three are probably vowels maybe?' level of solving, so I will happily pass the next password back to you.

Does this make #7 LAVA? :eek:

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Oh, hey, that makes sense! I was still at the 'the last three are probably vowels maybe?' level of solving, so I will happily pass the next password back to you.

Does this make #7 LAVA? :eek:

hS

And if it's lava, can clues encircle as well as being encircled?

The lava *nearly* encircled Frodo and Sam. ;)

Ohhhhh ... (facepalms self).

ISENGARD is an anagram of 'read sign.'

[Galadriel55]

1. E In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. NUMENOR: No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. ISENGARD: Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. LAVA: In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.




Yes and yes and yes! I ended up including both encircled and encircling things in order to get good letters. And that is why I was not happy to learn that Dor FiG is not synonymous with Tol Galen, an island "encircled" by the river. So I again apologize for that clue being included on incorrect assumptions.

The 5th clue is a bit randomly textual, but look:
Then all the hosts of Angband swarmed against them, and they bridged the stream with their dead, and encircled the remnant of Hithlum as a gathering tide about a rock.

:D

One more to go!

[Pervinca Took]

Is number one EKKAIA - or something like that? I think it means 'Encircling Seas' or something, from when Middle-earth was flat?

Ah, yes. It's not just that it sounds like most of kayak. The end of kayak becomes its beginning, to give us KK.

Ah, no! Beginning of the word END. The K's end up together because the kayak is overturned. ;)

[Galadriel55]

Is number one EKKAIA - or something like that? I think it means 'Encircling Seas' or something, from when Middle-earth was flat?

Ah, yes. It's not just that it sounds like most of kayak. The end of kayak becomes its beginning, to give us KK.

Ah, no! Beginning of the word END. The K's end up together because the kayak is overturned. ;)

Yes! Take the beginning of E(ND), and overturn an almost-kayak. :)

1. EKKAIA: In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. NUMENOR: No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. ISENGARD: Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. LAVA: In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.


And now over to... Pervinca?

[Pervinca Took]

That was quite a password, Galadriel! And sterling clue-solving from Huey.

I don't *think* this one's been done before:

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
2. Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
3. Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
5. It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

[Huinesoron]

Bravo, Pervinca - I'd never have gotten that last one. :) And bravo G55 for an excellent password!

For the new one, #5 immediately makes me think TOME (emote backwards minus a note).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
2. Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
3. Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

[Huinesoron]

Well, in #4 'one story' contains 'stone', which could be a trinket... but the remaining letters make 'Roy', who I don't recall from the books. ;)

hS

[Pervinca Took]

For 4, you need a synonym of 'story.'

[Huinesoron]

#3:

Red fell the dew in RAMMAS ECHOR? MA + MA + S + ... well, I have no idea what 'Rocher' anagrams to, but it seems like it easily could! (Do sheep still say "maaaaaa" these days, or have they all switched over to "baaaaa"?)

Alterantely 'sheep' could be 'ewe', but that would need an answer with two Wublewoos.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
2. Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

Two RAMs, an S, and ECHO without the Bunnymen.

[Galadriel55]

This whole time I was convinced that rabbit-folk were hobbits and was very very confused.

Equally confused about the rest of the clues, but working with #2 I thought of "war" and "or" individually, and it just came to me now that they combine to ARROW, which is a tool.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
ARROW: Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

Indeed! :)

[Galadriel55]

Is the password CARNE? The colour red, connecting the Red Arrow, Red Book, and the red dew on the Rammas Echor?

...making #4 NARYA, from yarn + a.

[Pervinca Took]

C: Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
ARROW: Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
NARYA: Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of. (The Red Book)

Yes and yes! :)

[Galadriel55]

No idea for #1, but if it's something that grows, perhaps CARNIMIRIE?

[Pervinca Took]

CARNIMIRIE: Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
ARROW: Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
NARYA: Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of. (The Red Book)

I + I + R + R + CINEMA.

Red rowanberries.

It's a wrap!

Over to you. :)

[Galadriel55]

I + I + R + R + CINEMA.

Thanks! Can you remind me again how R is a liquid? I know it's used in cryptic clues, but I can never remember why. L I understand, because (l) indicates liquid state in chemistry/physics. But why R?



1. Theme goes here.
2. One sin: imperfect after a year in the capital.
3. Middle of the starry fortress on the river.
4. Endless lust, moan in turmoil on the hill.
5. The second of two-coloured animal coat, disoriented in the sun.
6. Water shell? One becomes none, fifth becomes one, in confusion face the west.
7. The moon stirs one noteless light.
8. Step up, and Norse god can shake the tower.

[Huinesoron]

Thanks! Can you remind me again how R is a liquid? I know it's used in cryptic clues, but I can never remember why. L I understand, because (l) indicates liquid state in chemistry/physics. But why R?

I think it's a linguistics thing? I know L and R are closely related (hence why Japanese speakers blend the two), but I don't know why 'liquid'.

On to the password!

#4: lus + noma, flip it backwards to get AMON SUL?

#3: 'starry fortress on the river' just screams 'Osgiliath' (it's the literal translation!). Geographically, in the middle is the Great Bridge, bearing the Dome of Stars and associated Tower, but, um...

... if Weathertop and Osgiliath are both in there, there's a certain theme suggesting itself...

... is the password PALANTIRI? With #3 literally being OSGILIATH?

That would make #1 either PALANTIR or PALANTIRI itself.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

L and R are called liquids, because they roll off the tongue.

P and B are plosives

D and T are dental plosives

Hard C and G are velar consonants

etc.

[Galadriel55]

Hui, you are on a roll! The only one I would nitpick is #1, because making the clue identical to the password is a bit, well, cheating. The theme is ever so slightly more refined than just Palantiri, because there are terms that could have been included but were not.


1. P Theme goes here.
2. A One sin: imperfect after a year in the capital.
3. OSGILIATH: Middle of the starry fortress on the river.
4. AMON SUL: Endless lust, moan in turmoil on the hill.
5. N The second of two-coloured animal coat, disoriented in the sun.
6. T Water shell? One becomes none, fifth becomes one, in confusion face the west.
7. I The moon stirs one noteless light.
8. R Step up, and Norse god can shake the tower.


L and R are called liquids, because they roll off the tongue.

Ohhh! Thank you.

[Huinesoron]

The only one I would nitpick is #1, because making the clue identical to the password is a bit, well, cheating.

I mean, I thought so, but I didn't like to say... :D

#7: I (one) + li[g]ht = ITHIL, as in Minas Ithil?

#8: Thor can [falls over; mixes up letters] pardon me, ORTH ANC, stepped one letter in?

hS