Password

[Galadriel55]

I don't dislike Turin. Actually, I really want to slap his mum, for loving one child more than another and for telling him that Laughter is dead in the house because Urwen is dead and then saying in what seems to me like mardy resentment: "But you live still, son of Hurin (or was it Morwen?), and so does the enemy that has done this to us." And yes, I know she's just lost her daughter.

Ah well. I rather like Morwen too, but no one really shares that POV either. :)

I actually don't have anything prepared, but I will in less than a day or two. I'll put it up ASAP.

[Pervinca Took]

Oh Morwen is a pill...ugh

I know Tolkien idolised his own mother but there are so many mothers who fail their children albeit often inadvertantly by dying that I can't help wondering if there was some latent resentment. Mind you for a good catholuc there is quite a bitvof wife abandonment too.

Perhaps still a part of his being a good Catholic - not ignoring sin and showing the devastating consequences of it?

Then there is Miriel, who (in a sense) abandons both husband and child - perhaps with the worst consequences of all the deeds of someone not actually evil.

Look forward, Galadriel. :)

[Mithalwen]

I don't know. I wonder if Sam and Merry and Pippin's families minded that they chose to spend their final years with their friends not them..and sam is ready to abandon Rose and baby Elanor when Frodo.

[Pervinca Took]

When does Sam show himself ready to abandon Rose and baby Elanor? He says "And I can't come." He knows he can't leave them, and so does Frodo.

Sam doesn't sail west until Rosie is dead. Yes, he leaves his chidren, but most if not all of them are settled, with families of their own. And losing Frodo sixty years earlier was a pretty big deal. He only leaves baby Elanor for a fortnight.

I suppose we're supposed to assume that Merry and Pippin's wives are already dead too.

[Mithalwen]

Maybe I have been unfair since I have been misreading that as a question. It could be can't as in not permitted to take the straight road. Frodo's response hints at that interpretation as does Sam's original statement of well I've come back...

[Galadriel55]

Ok, here it is... with a twist. Hope it was worth the wait.

1. Confused others swallow black on veiled river
2. MORANNON Girl in insult in gate
3. FORNOST Wood looses direction but gains negative city
4. One uncooked Vala
5. Ancestor of such points to half-elf
6. One point surround gift under water

Happy riddling!

[Pervinca Took]

Just wondering if that could be MorANNon.

I saw the word "moan" and thought "that's not really an insult," but now I've just typed it above, I see "moron," which definitely is.

Maybe I have been unfair since I have been misreading that as a question. It could be can't as in not permitted to take the straight road. Frodo's response hints at that interpretation as does Sam's original statement of well I've come back...

Sam could possibly mean both at once, but I think his main weighting would be that he can't go now he has a wife and child. As Frodo said earlier, "You can't go far or for a long time now, of course." Also Frodo knew that sailing west when he still had most of his life ahead of him was not right for Sam, family or no family, and was happy and I think relieved that Sam wanted to marry Rose and had so much "to enjoy, and to be, and to do."

I would guess that the issue of Sam also being permitted passage west as a Ringbearer would have come up in the talks JRRT tells us must have taken place between Frodo and the various bearers of the Three in Minas Tirith and (more especially) in Rivendell), and perhaps along the road between the two. There is a strong sense of knowing when a person's time has or hasn't come and respecting and honouring that in Tolkien (amongst the wise, with a capital and with a small W). It's when, for instance, Numenoreans try to cling on to life for too long that decay is setting in and disaster isn't that far away.

Maybe I have been unfair since I have been misreading that as a question.

Well, I remember that William Nighy's Sam pronounced it as a question. ;)


5. Ancestor of such points to half-elf

If you remove the geographical points (N E S W) from ELROND you get "lord," and if you do the same to EARENDIL you get "laird" (Scottish for "lord.")

That doesn't really mean ancestor, though ... one might almost called a forefather one's "lord," but it's stretching it a bit. Hmmm ....

Unless AR can be short for ancestor (first and last letter) plus WEN (three of the main compass points).

Ah hang on - the ancestor of the half-elf is the one we're looking for. Back to drawing board.


3. Wood looses direction but gains negative city

I'm going to guess FORNOST for this.

FOREST for wood, lose the E for direction, gain NO for Fornost.

[Galadriel55]

2 and 3 are correct (to be edited in later). Don't overthink 5. You understand the clue, you just need to find the right ancestor and the right half-elf.

[Mithalwen]

Wondering about Elrohir for 5 though I my be fixating on the lord from Pervinca's thoughts on elrond.Take the S from Elros and you get Elro. Hir means lord and it also aounds like here which could be a point since it indicates location.

[Mithalwen]

More confidently Araw for one uncooked Vala..I discover it is the sindar name for Orome.

Oh and the twist means we aren't looking for initials, yes?

[Galadriel55]

1. Confused others swallow black on veiled river
2. MORANNON Girl in insult in gate
3. FORNOST Wood looses direction but gains negative city
4. ARAW One uncooked Vala
5. Ancestor of such points to half-elf
6. One point surround gift under water


Not Elrohir, but continue looking around his folk. Remember, you're looking for the ancestor.

[Mithalwen]

Ah could it be Earwen, great grandmother of Arwen losing E to form name?

[Galadriel55]

Indeed it could.

1. Confused others swallow black on veiled river
2. MORANNON Girl in insult in gate
3. FORNOST Wood looses direction but gains negative city
4. ARAW One uncooked Vala
5. EARWEN Ancestor of such points to half-elf
6. One point surround gift under water

And forgot to say this last time - yes, the twist is that the letters aren't arranged in the typical manner.

[Mithalwen]

I think Gwathlo can be interpreted as veiled river but I can't get it to eork in any of its names...nor morthonf.

[Galadriel55]

I think Gwathlo can be interpreted as veiled river but I can't get it to eork in any of its names...nor morthonf.

Here's a hint: the clue says on veiled river. But either way, neither Gwathlo nor Morthond and the river.

[Mithalwen]

Here's a hint: the clue says on veiled river. But either way, neither Gwathlo nor Morthond and the river.

I did wonder about the on but having wrong river srtymied..

[Pervinca Took]

There's Esgaroth on the Long Lake, which contains "others" mixed up. Does "gar" mean black in Elvish? I was looking for ebon in a name for a while - or jet, (but to a lesser extent, because there aren't that many J's in Tolkien's names, IIRC).

[Mithalwen]

Mor is dark or black. Dur can be dark too.

[Pervinca Took]

You're right Mithalwen - have been looking in an online Elvish dictionary, and neither gar, rag nor arg mean black. Back to drawing board.

[Galadriel55]

Here are more clues.

1. Think "Black" in a European language.
2. Think First Age.
3. Think of how you can refer to others.

That should help.

[Mithalwen]

Gah Menegroth... I l8oked at Esgalduin and discounted it when I was looking at rivers ... Them split and reversed around negro, Spanish for black.

[Mithalwen]

Is the password Morwen taking sucessive letters from each clue which would mean that 6 either ends or has sixth letter N

[Pervinca Took]

Numenor, perhaps? Under water.

Or Atalante? Then the N is in the right place.

And talent = gift.

"A" isn't a compass point, though.

Andor means land of the gift, and is a kenning for Numenor. I think Andune is also a name for Numenor. But I think Atalante refers specifically to Numenor once it is drowned (and hence under water).

[Mithalwen]

Numenor, perhaps? Under water.

Or Atalante? Then the N is in the right place.

And talent = gift.

"A" isn't a compass point, though.

Andor means land of the gift, and is a kenning for Numenor. I think Andune is also a name for Numenor. But I think Atalante refers specifically to Numenor once it is drowned (and hence under water).


A could be the one bit and the e the point

[Pervinca Took]

A could be the one bit and the e the point

A could be one, but there's only one E and it would be needed for the word "talent."

6. One point surround gift under water

Unless gift just refers to the land itself being a gift.

[Mithalwen]

Maybe a sound like?

[Galadriel55]

All correct. Over to Mith. :)

Atalante is the answer - "one" and "point" surround "gift" - a and e surround talent. I probably should have said that it's a sound-alike. Apologies. :o

[Mithalwen]

Nvm we got there ...itcwas a challenge and I like the offset password which made it that much harder, right now to find some wriggly ones for you!

[Mithalwen]

1 BALIN Island has a point for grave inhabitant.
2 ARAGORN Tolkien, in short, twisted with a cloth and made a king.
3 UILOS Bloomer you heard before mixing soil.
4 GILDOR Elf lord distressed following a soldier.
5 LEGOLAS Not Galion though it sounds he was like him!
6 IORETH Riot he rearraanged for her.
7 RODNOR Dance backwards after right elf

[Pervinca Took]

6. Ioreth?

Are we looking for a wiggly/non-standard arrangement of the password?

EDIT: 5. I'll have a guess at Legolas - as it sounds like legless, which is what Galion was/became in the chapter he appears in.

[Mithalwen]

Both correct and nothing wriggly

[Pervinca Took]

3. Uilos - one of the elvish names for simbelmyne?

[Mithalwen]

That is the one... well done

[Pervinca Took]

That's my elvish lesson for the day! I'd only heard of Uilos in place names, but seeing "sounds like you" and the letters of soil, I looked it up on the offchance.

[Mithalwen]

I was looking up flower names for something else and thought it might come in handy..need to give you a bit of a challenge especially when indulging my weakness for that sort of clue.

[Pervinca Took]

1 Island has a point for grave inhabitant.

Wonder if that is WIGHT (barrow-wight, Isle of Wight). I can't account for the point, though. Unless it's a geographical feature - the Needles or something point - it's a fair few years since I was there.

EDIT: There's Nodes Point, which I've heard of since, although I never visited it. (Point tends to make me think a compass point first).

[Mithalwen]

Although i am a five minute wal from a splendid view of the Needles it isnt Wight. .Have another go.

[Mithalwen]

In response to th edit. Yes you need a compass point.

[Pervinca Took]

Still working on that, but going to have a guess at BAUGLIR for the password.

[Mithalwen]

Correct.Which should help with a couple at least.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah good! I only guessed it because I was convinced that R (for right) must start the last clue. And I had to stare at it quite a bit first as well. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Yes I hadnt intended it as the password but had an ugal and ungoliant was too long! And yes righy did indicate starting with R .

[Pervinca Took]

Gildor? GI plus "lord" rearranged.

EDIT:

2 A Tolkien, in short, twisted with a cloth and made a king.

Aragorn? - I was trying to do something with A RAG for ages - didn't think of Ron for ages because I think friends called him Ronald or John Ronald (or Tollers).

[Mithalwen]

Gildor? GI plus "lord" rearranged.

EDIT:

2 A Tolkien, in short, twisted with a cloth and made a king.

Aragorn? - I was trying to do something with A RAG for ages - didn't think of Ron for ages because I think friends called him Ronald or John Ronald (or Tollers).

Both right..yes ht seemed a bit impertinent....Ron isn't really him.

[Pervinca Took]

Sooo - elves with names beginning with R!

Tried Rumil -limu means various different things, but unfortunately none of them is a kind of dance!

EDIT:

"Rog
"Rog, Lord of the House of the Hammer of Wrath, is a noble of Gondolin in The Book of Lost Tales. Christopher Tolkien excluded him from The Silmarillion because of his name, which was judged unlikely for an Elf (cf. Balrog, "demon of might")."

(From Wikipedia).

That would be R plus "go" backwards.

[Mithalwen]

Nope it is an actual dance noun you need and it is recognisable ~ not from some remote part of patagonia which you would have to be a postgrad ethnomusicologist to know. I have never heard of Rog.

[Pervinca Took]

More searching tells me that RODNOR was the father-name of Gil-Galad.

I guess a rondo must be a dance - I know I used to come across music pieces called rondos.

[Mithalwen]

I am fairly sure it is a dance form... and alternative names for Gil-galad are another weakness of mine... which leaves you with what I thought was about the easiest of them all... :cool:

[Pervinca Took]

1 B Island has a point for grave inhabitant.

I really did think Wight was the one at first! Only grave inhabitants I can think of are barrow-wights and the Shades of Dunharrow. Unless it's something to do with he Halls of Mandos.

Well, first I tried all the islands I could find in Tolkien's world, because it seemed the most likely part to be the straight clue. Didn't find anything, so tried all the "real world" islands and anagrams of island with a view to "grave inhabitants" being the straight part.

Only other angles I can think of are the Mounds of Mundburg or the burial places in Rohan - or hobbits living in holes in the ground, which non-hobbit-folk might think are like graves.

Can't find angle for the "seriousness" meaning of grave.

Unless it's a serious inhabitant of Numenor.

[Mithalwen]

You are going adrift. Your approach was correct at first attempt else I would have given more pointers. You had identified the required elements correctly now you just have to substitute diferent options for them.

[Pervinca Took]

There's a Bone Island in Canada, and both N and E are points, and a bone is a grave inhabitant. But I can't see any Tolkien connection whatsoever! (Except for Nob backwards).

EDIT:

Balin? Bali plus N. Only came to this because I really struggled to think of graves of specific people in the books. Balin's the only one I can think of, except for the ones in Rath Dinen. Boromir had a boat burial, Theoden had a funeral, but his tomb doesn't have the same kind of dramatic significance.

[Mithalwen]

Yes! I nearly pointed out that the singular inhabitant was significant but since it was neither an obscure character nor a particularly obscure island and a very notable grave. Now if it had been plural the clue would have worked well for wights.

Anyway the thread is yours Pervinca

[Pervinca Took]

Thanks once more for great clues and a fun password!

OK - this is the standard "initial letter counts" form, except that I've jumbled up the order of the clues to make it a little more challenging. I already had four passwords ready made, as writing cryptic clues is my new hobby. So this was the only way I could do it.

I don't intend to jumble them every time (especially if the clues are hard), but let's see how it works on this occasion.

1. Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
2. Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
3. He says to partake of the vittles.
4. This chap is said to be incandescent.
5. Onomatopoeic tormenter.
6. The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
7. Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
8. Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.

[Mithalwen]

I amtempted to be evil and say Denethor for four but mor seriously I think two is Elanor
ALE backwarda plus compass point N plus OR .

[Pervinca Took]

I amtempted to be evil and say Denethor for four but mor seriously I think two is Elanor
ALE backwarda plus compass point N plus OR .

Eep - never thought of that!

Elanor is correct.


REMEMBER: INITIALS FORM THE PASSWORD, BUT THE CLUES HAVE BEEN JUMBLED UP.

1. Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
3. He says to partake of the vittles.
4. This chap is said to be incandescent.
5. Onomatopoeic tormenter.
6. The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
7. Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
8. Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.

EDIT: Re Mithalwen's last clues (the Balin one, specifically), I had clearly forgotten Turin's tomb, and Thorin's resting-place. Then it made me think of the rather odd scenario of a rebodied elf returning to Middle-earth and seeing his or her grave! But I think that, apart from Luthien and Glorfindel, they all remained in Valinor once rebodied. Don't know if Glorfindel had an individual grave (I guess the end of Gondolin was a messy business), but if so, it would have been deeply buried under water or earth after the War of Wrath.

I wonder if Beren and Luthien's bodies were buried, or if they returned to the original ones where they still lay. Not sure how much time (Middle-earth time) they were in Mandos for before being sent back. Valinor and Eressea etc were always outside mortal time, weren't they? It might be oddly similar (timewise) to going back through the wardrobe from Narnia.

[Mithalwen]

My cpoy of the silmarillion isnt where i thought it was but I think Thorondor or one of the great eagles recovered his body after his fall and they built a cairn over him. I think Tolkien said that Elvish bodies decomposed in to dustnormally but I know that Miriel's body was preserved albeit in Vn Valinor and i imagine the stasis option is more likely than reembodiment in Valinor option. Gandalf seemingly was sent back to his body ... or at least that is the impression I got. Glorfindel hadel was slain did his time in Mandos and was sent back significantly later.

There is a description od a body lying like a cut flower on the grass but I forget if it was of Luthien or Iriel.
Haudh en Arwen was Finduilas IIRC. I think this might be worth a discussion in books or nn

There is an excellent RPG called Island of Sorrow which has a group of exiles visiting himring and unquiet spirits.

oh i am pondering the clues but nothing I am confident of vemturing yet.

[Pervinca Took]

I had forgotten Gandalf.

Never taken part in an RPG. Perhaps I should.

Thank you for the insights.

[Galadriel55]

5. Gollum? Named for the sound he makes.

[Pervinca Took]

5. Gollum? Named for the sound he makes.

Afraid not. The key is "tormentor."

Your reasoning is correct, though.

[Mithalwen]

Having got hung up om Lugdush the orc I have had an idea amd wonder if it is Neekerbreeker

[Galadriel55]

1. Arwen (wan+er mixed)

[Pervinca Took]

Having got hung up om Lugdush the orc I have had an idea amd wonder if it is Neekerbreeker

Indeed it is.

1. Arwen (wan+er mixed)

Correct.

REMEMBER: INITIALS FORM THE PASSWORD, BUT THE CLUES HAVE BEEN JUMBLED UP.

ARWEN: Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
3. He says to partake of the vittles.
4. This chap is said to be incandescent.
NEEKERBREEKER: Onomatopoeic tormenter.
6. The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
7. Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
8. Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
3. The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
ARWEN: Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
5. This chap is said to be incandescent.
6. Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.
NEEKERBREEKER: Onomatopoeic tormenter.
8. He says to partake of the vittles.

[Mithalwen]

lost my post with resource limit and between that and visiting sibling and no libray puters due to lead nicked off the roof I havent had much downs time ...

The in spanish can be Los las el or la IIRC There are various Gondor placenames thst contain these elements but I have had no luck fitting the reat of the clue yet.

Vittles is a gaffer gamgee kind of word but again...

[Mithalwen]

I am going to have a stab at Felagund for the password

[Pervinca Took]

Felagund is correct, and should make the remaining clues easier.

F: Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
L: The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
ARWEN: Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
G: This chap is said to be incandescent.
U: Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.
NEEKERBREEKER: Onomatopoeic tormenter.
D: He says to partake of the vittles.

[Galadriel55]

5. Gandalf?!

And the U in #6 shatters my hopes of "Watson" being scrambled somehow...

[Pervinca Took]

5. Gandalf?!

And the U in #6 shatters my hopes of "Watson" being scrambled somehow...

Not Gandalf (but a good idea!) That one is actually very similar to a clue Mithalwen guessed fairly easily in my very first password.

It isn't a sidekick of a detective that you're looking for. If anything, the detectives are probably the sidekicks.

EDIT: Mith is right about the "the in Spanish" bit.

[Mithalwen]

Just because I am obsesses I will try my darling Gilgalad for five
Is Dain pronounced Dine as in Dunedain?If so that is my guess for the last one.Lossarnach for L though wanderer makes me think of Don Quixote so Amedon is another maybe.

[Galadriel55]

Gloin for incandescent? I remember that being the answer to a clue I for some reason remember from the very beginning of the thread...

[Pervinca Took]

Just because I am obsesses I will try my darling Gilgalad for five
Is Dain pronounced Dine as in Dunedain?If so that is my guess for the last one.Lossarnach for L though wanderer makes me think of Don Quixote so Amedon is another maybe.

F: Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
LAMEDON: The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
ARWEN: Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
GLOIN: This chap is said to be incandescent.
U: Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.
NEEKERBREEKER: Onomatopoeic tormenter.
DAIN: He says to partake of the vittles.

1. Correct, Galadriel. If it was used near the beginning of the thread, I didn't consciously copy it. I haven't read every post on the thread. I meant that it was very like my clue for "Oin" (debt-ridden dwarf, we hear, or something like that).

2. My clue for the last one was originally "He's said to condescend." Then I remembered that "ain" in Tolkien's names is always the sound in "mine." I checked it up, just to be certain, and there was a sound recording of the name Dain on the Tolkien Gateway that sounded more like "Doyne." But I guessed the "dine" sound was most likely correct.

3. Mith, I take it you mean Lamedon? Don't know anything about Amedon. Lamedon is EL + NOMAD (wanderer) mixed up (meandering). My clue for THAT was originally "Injured Gondorian professor," but you used a very similar clue so I had to change it (that was why I guessed Lamedon so quickly in one of your previous clues).

Very surprised you haven't got the first clue yet. ;)

[Mithalwen]

I did! And I had quite forgotten my clue.... really think I have goldfish DNA sometimes And Nomad didn't occur because I was taking the La not the EL...

I though the dine pronunciation was for Elvish...I always read Dain as Dayin but then I still haven't completely cured my Seleborn Sirdan habit...

I thinki have the first one now having twigged on teh Musketeer (very late for a French lit specialist) . The Indicator for starting with F helped me to Felagund and Lord F will lead quickly to darling Faramir.... and only now have Irealised that if you take one of three Musketeers rather than a generic musketeer and delete a directional letter.... Aramis - S .. add teh last letter of war ... and bingo.. Faramir.

[Pervinca Took]

FARAMIR: Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
LAMEDON: The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
ARWEN: Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
GLOIN: This chap is said to be incandescent.
U: Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.
NEEKERBREEKER: Onomatopoeic tormenter.
DAIN: He says to partake of the vittles.

Indeed it does!

I wonder how I can check properly on the pronunciation of Dain. I always thought it sounded like deign, but when I checked the pronunciation notes I thought they were for all peoples/languages.

I won't give a further clue for the remaining one just yet. Maybe try a few guesses and then see if you can make them fit. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Wll all teh U words I can think of are orcs or Utumno.. apart from Undomiel...which would shine in the night sky but apart from containing the initials DI I can't make it fit.

[Pervinca Took]

FARAMIR: Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
LAMEDON: The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
ARWEN: Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
GLOIN: This chap is said to be incandescent.
UNDOMIEL: Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.
NEEKERBREEKER: Onomatopoeic tormenter.
DAIN: He says to partake of the vittles.

To loose = to UNDO, plus EMIL muddled = MIEL = Undomiel.

Over to you. :)

[Mithalwen]

1 RAUROS Muddled Sauron gains right but loses direction. Falls.
2 A Confused instruction to get down or mount?
3 M More aid comes initially reorganised by a good friend.
4 M Having lost his way a Royal Academician minds a crafty fellow.
5 ARTANARO Craft sun and form of address for a king
6 SINDARIN Speech fault of singer beyond the sea?
7 ERELAS Highlight before a girl loses her way?
8 CELEBORN This the French tolerated before changing direction for a tree.
9 HADOR Possessed alternative blond.
10 OROPHER Poor confused girl elf
11 RORIMAC Master confused tup swallowing dwarf child initially.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Rauros? (Sauron plus r minus s - Rauros Falls).

9. Hador? (had + or).

10. Oropher? ("poor" confused, plus her).

(And I wonder if Rammas Echor is the password ....)

[Mithalwen]

All correct...dose of salts sprigs to mind.

[Pervinca Took]

I thought this must be Sindarin before I guessed the password, because of sin for flaw, but couldn't work out the singer part.

Then a minute ago I remembered the singer Bobby Darin.

I'm still not sure about the beyond the sea part though. Unless it was only spoken in Middle-earth, across the straight pond from Valinor.

All correct...dose of salts sprigs to mind.

?

[Mithalwen]

As in going through the clues like a dose of salts..

It is Sindarin...A last desperate clue...I assumed anyone knowing Darin would know Beyond the Sea.... I would say check it on youtube but it is vey earwormy. The title was used for the Kevin Spacey biopic a few years ago.

[Pervinca Took]

I might know it, but not its name. My parents had a couple of his records and I know a few of his songs. Very talented man; tragically short life.

EDIT: Ah, that song. Never associated him with that one. If I heard him sing it, I probably thought it was Sinatra doing a cover of a Piaf song (he sounds very Sinatraish singing it).

When I think Bobby Darin, I think more "If I were a carpenter" or "Another song on my mind."

[Mithalwen]

Neither of which I know..it is a loose version of Charles Trenet's La Mer which ws used for an advertrecently for something I have forgotten.

However I am not very musical at least as far as anythin in the last couple of centuries is concerned so I thought that some might be aware of the film more than the singer..and besidesit is such a Tolkien type title.

[Pervinca Took]

8 C This the French tolerated before changing direction

The only tree I could think of beginning with C was Carnimirie.

But after some research I find there are a couple of others.

Apparently Celeborn is also the name of a white tree in Tol Eressea.

Ce + le + born (bore - change e for n - only just worked that bit out - was wondering how borne could work as it would lose a direction rather than changing it).

[Mithalwen]

Yes I dithered over the directions and had to double check it worked when I typed it up..

[Pervinca Took]

11 R Master confused tup swallowing dwarf child initially.

I guess RORIMAC was Master of Buckland.

RAM is another word for tup, confused and put around/swallowing the dwarf ORI, with the initial letter of child.

[Mithalwen]

Rorimac was old Rory and indeed Master of Buckland.

[Pervinca Took]

7 E Highlight before a girl loses her way?

Could that be the beacon ERELAS? Ere for before, plus (lass minus S).

I was really struggling to find a synonym for highlight that would work - thought the straight clue was the girl or possibly a way (like a mountain pass), although "loses" suggested way was part of the cryptic component. Didn't realise the beacons had names before I went looking for possible female names starting with "Ere."

[Mithalwen]

7 E Highlight before a girl loses her way?

Could that be the beacon ERELAS? Ere for before, plus (lass minus S).

I was really struggling to find a synonym for highlight that would work - thought the straight clue was the girl or possibly a way (like a mountain pass), although "loses" suggested way was part of the cryptic component. Didn't realise the beacons had names before I went looking for possible female names starting with "Ere."

It could and indeed is....:D I do try to keep to the convention of havingbthe straight part at one end though 7t can be a struggle.

[Pervinca Took]

5 A Craft sun and form of address for a king

The nearest I can get is Aranarth (art for craft, anar for sun), but h on its own is not a form of address.

Anardil = sun + friend, but "friend" is stretching it as a form of address.

Have also been trying to combine anar with hail (so far without success). ;)

It's possible that I'm going wrong in trying to translate sun, of course.

[Mithalwen]

So close yet so far. You have correctly identified two elements.. Then you have gone awry.

[Mithalwen]

This is the most obscure of thos remaining hoever...

[Pervinca Took]

I haven't discounted the idea of "craft" being the name of a ship and the straight clue. I just can't find a ship name that works (even in Adunaic!)

[Mithalwen]

When I told you you had correctly identified two elements I meant art and anar. I would add that there is no anagram indicator afaik in theclue., as for the form of address think grammar and vocative.

[Pervinca Took]

I did a week's course in Latin once, but at school I had to choose between Latin and German and chose the latter.

I know that -e can be a vocative ending in Latin, though.

Am at my dad's, so only have internet, though, and the indexes of books can sometimes be a lot more useful.

Artanare? (Haven't found that in my search for kings, though).

EDIT: Looked up the vocative and apparently it can have the -i ending, too. Artanari?

[Mithalwen]

Post got lost ....it is more the form they use in Engkish to indicate the vocative though it is swldom used in modern English though it is used in the Hobbit. As for who.. I indulged my obsession alas for the last time. The other clues are not so obscure.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, ARTANARO, another name for Gil-Galad.

I suppose you mean the way characters sometimes say things like "What have we done, o king?" in The Hobbit?

[Mithalwen]

Yep...and I think Bilbo uses it to address Smaug...though ithere is the story of the child being taught the vocative of table in latin was for addressing a table ..O table!. He protested he never did...
The rest are far less obscure..

[Pervinca Took]

4 M Having lost his way a Royal Academician minds a crafty fellow.

Been trying to get this one for ages. The letters RA alone don't seem to work - I wonder if a Royal Academician is an artist? It has a way to lose (s). But otherwise that doesn't work, either.

Mahtan springs to mind as a crafty fellow - or possibly Maeglian - but I can't get either of them to fit the cryptic bits.

[Mithalwen]

RA is correct. You are being too specific. This is more obscure than the other two..but not fiendishly so.

[Pervinca Took]

A Confused instruction to get down or mount?

It's just occurred to me that this could be one of the Amons.

But the only one I can get to anywhere near work is Amon Obel - the word below for get down, but the W would be missing, and there's nothing in the clue to indicate that it should be.

[Mithalwen]

Wrong sort of mount. :smokin:

[Mithalwen]

Oh and the instruction iiterally means halt but in context get down

[Pervinca Took]

If it's not a mountain, the only possibility I can think of for a straight clue is an elvish word beginning with A.

Unless it's a picture frame.

Or ... a horse ...

Arod?

(That at least is an anagram of an elvish order - Daro - which I thought meant "Be still." Legolas was, perhaps, not translating the word, just interpreting and deciding on a course of action).

[Mithalwen]

The straight clue ia mount. However mount is polysemic. It can be a geographical feature but you want another meaning.

[Pervinca Took]

See my edited post.

[Mithalwen]

That is it. Legolas drops down but according to Hammond and Scull daro means stop or halt...

[Mithalwen]

]1 RAUROS Muddled Sauron gains right but loses direction. Falls.
2 AROD Confused instruction to get down or mount?
3 MERIADOC More aid comes initially reorganised by a good friend.
4 MIRDAN Having lost his way a Royal Academician minds a crafty fellow.
5 ARTANARO Craft sun and form of address for a king
6 SINDARIN Speech fault of singer beyond the sea?
7 ERELAS Highlight before a girl loses her way?
8 CELEBORN This the French tolerated before changing direction for a tree.
9 HADOR Possessed alternative blond.
10 OROPHER Poor confused girl elf
11 RORIMAC Master confused tup swallowing dwarf child initially.

[Pervinca Took]

3 M More aid comes initially reorganised by a good friend.

Meriadoc! A good friend to Frodo.

Tearing my hair out for ages on this one - looking up Mablung and Malbeth (which contains abet) and loads of others in search for your "Beleg" style good friend.

Wasn't mixing "more" into the anagram, or using the word "comes" for the "initial" part.

[Mithalwen]

It was going to becmaster not good friend until I used Rorimac ao I translated Holdwine. Otherwise I thought that was straightforward? But merry is a favourite character so it seems easier.

[Pervinca Took]

I didn't think of translating Holdwine. :o

4 M Having lost his way a Royal Academician minds a crafty fellow.

R + A plus MINDS minus S = Mirdan ... was he crafty, though?

Ah, hang on ...

"mírdain is a noun meaning "jewel-smiths" in Sindarin.

"While unattested, the singular form is commonly held to be mírdan ("jewel-smith")."

(From Tolkien Gateway).

I thought there was a character called Mirdan, but perhaps it's simply a word meaning jewel-smith. That would account for the "crafty fellow," ... if Mirdan is right, that is.

[Mithalwen]

It was going to be mirdain and then I relised I was an I short and making it singular was easier. I didn't know it wasn't official. I was in a RPG set around the siege of Ost in Edhil and got used to it.
Sorry.

Anyway well fone it was a mighty solo effort.

[Pervinca Took]

Mirdan really sounds like it should be a proper character, anyway. ;)

Thanks again for some great clues.

Time for the next password:

1. Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
2. Disturbingly, blames the rations.
3. Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
4. We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
5. German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
6. Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
7. Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale’s birth.
8. A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

[Mithalwen]

Cheers. 7 Niphredil? they greeted the birth of Luthien. A pinch is a nip and redhill is a town in Surrey. Take away l for liquid and it works.

[Pervinca Took]

Cheers. 7 Niphredil? they greeted the birth of Luthien. A pinch is a nip and redhill is a town in Surrey. Take away l for liquid and it works.

Correct.

1. Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
2. Disturbingly, blames the rations.
3. Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
4. We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
5. German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
6. Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale’s birth.
8. A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

[Mithalwen]

Okeydoke..now when I wasca lass I was very taken by a pome called The Highwayman which haa the line "when the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed on cloudy seas".. so I will guess Galion.forvthe last one.

Andis the second lembas anagrak of blames?

[Pervinca Took]

Okeydoke..now when I wasca lass I was very taken by a pome called The Highwayman which haa the line "when the moon is a ghostly galleon tossed on cloudy seas".. so I will guess Galion.forvthe last one.

Andis the second lembas anagrak of blames?

Correct on both counts. :) I did have "this merry tippler" in the Galion clue originally - it sounded much nicer, but made the clue too obvious.

1. Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
LEMBAS: Disturbingly, blames the rations.
3. Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
4. We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
5. German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
6. Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale’s birth.
GALION: A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

[Mithalwen]

Yay. I read the highwayman laat night to check memory and it ia very melodramatic but still fab.. now have a vague idea that german for wheel is Rad ...or at least cycling is Radfahren iirc.. and since appalled is often synonymous with aghast.. Radagast would work?

[Pervinca Took]

Yay. I read the highwayman laat night to check memory and it ia very melodramatic but still fab.. now have a vague idea that german for wheel is Rad ...or at least cycling is Radfahren iirc.. and since appalled is often synonymous with aghast.. Radagast would work?

Indeed it would.

1. Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
LEMBAS: Disturbingly, blames the rations.
3. Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
4. We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
RADAGAST: German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
6. Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale’s birth.
GALION: A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

[Mithalwen]

Having thought ruin was an anagram indicator and playing around with french for The it then occured to try french for honey which is miel and the only epesse that ends thus that I knoq of ia undomiell..and so ruin ain't an anagram hint but simply undo..assuming it is Undomiel of course.

[Pervinca Took]

Having thought ruin was an anagram indicator and playing around with french for The it then occured to try french for honey which is miel and the only epesse that ends thus that I knoq of ia undomiell..and so ruin ain't an anagram hint but simply undo..assuming it is Undomiel of course.

Verily it is so. :)

I don't think I put in "ruin" to create a distraction and suggest an anagram that wasn't there. I think I was just trying for a completely different clue for "undo," because I used Undomiel in my last password, indicating it with the verb "loose" (as in release). So this time it was ruin in the melodramatic Victorian/Shakespearean sense. ;)

1. Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
LEMBAS: Disturbingly, blames the rations.
3. Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
4. We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
RADAGAST: German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
UNDOMIEL: Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale's birth.
GALION: A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

[Mithalwen]

Anagram obsession.

I qould say 4 was urwen / er qhen but that would give the paasqord an unusual double u unless that is an anagram too...

[Pervinca Took]

Anagram obsession. I qould say 4 was urwen / er qhen but that would give the paasqord an unusual double u unless that is an anagram too...

It wouldn't. The website went funny when I reposted the clues a bit earlier with the updates/solved bits in. It turned into a series of orange code lines or something. Then when I got back in, it had mixed up the clues. I edited out the mixed up bits (or thought I had), but thought they were all at the ends of the lines.

P.S. This could be because I go to "edit" in my last post to get the "what's solved so far" version of the password, then copy and paste it into my next post and add the next solved bit - and that time I didn't close the previous version first. (Possibly).

1. Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
LEMBAS: Disturbingly, blames the rations.
3. Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
URWEN: We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
RADAGAST: German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
UNDOMIEL: Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale's birth.
GALION: A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

[Mithalwen]

Ah that makes morecsense..Glaurung for password then?

[Pervinca Took]

Yep!

G: Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
LEMBAS: Disturbingly, blames the rations.
A: Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
URWEN: We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
RADAGAST: German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
UNDOMIEL: Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale's birth.
GALION: A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

I've always thought the name Glaurung the most cruel and vicious sounding of all Tolkien's villains. (Although not in reality the most evil).

Perhaps because it uses the same vowel sounds/diphthong as "devour."

[Mithalwen]

Realising that I have mentally mispronounced this always... as arthdane Arthedain..Arthur and dine?

[Pervinca Took]

Realising that I have mentally mispronounced this always... as arthdane Arthedain..Arthur and dine?

Yes.

G: Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
LEMBAS: Disturbingly, blames the rations.
ARTHEDAIN: Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
URWEN: We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
RADAGAST: German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
UNDOMIEL: Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale's birth.
GALION: A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

[Mithalwen]

Ooh flash of inspiration after fruitlessly scouring indexes..Ghash? G and Hash...

[Galadriel55]

Ooh flash of inspiration after fruitlessly scouring indexes..Ghash? G and Hash...

Oh my goodness! *facepalm* I was also fruitlessly looking alphabetically for some character whose name might mean "fire"...

[Mithalwen]

It didn't help that I couldn't get beyond bubblecand squeak for a slapdash dish.

[Pervinca Took]

Ooh flash of inspiration after fruitlessly scouring indexes..Ghash? G and Hash...

Correct!

GHASH: Note added to a slapdash dish results in conflagration.
LEMBAS: Disturbingly, blames the rations.
ARTHEDAIN: Mythical king said and heard to eat in lost kingdom.
URWEN: We hear hesitation and time asked for a doomed maiden.
RADAGAST: German wheel sounds appalled by this chap.
UNDOMIEL: Ruin the French honey for an epesse.
NIPHREDIL: Pinch around a town in Surrey, but lose liquid to grace a nightingale's birth.
GALION: A poetically spectral warship sounds in his nomenclature.

And well done. Over to you. :)

[Pervinca Took]

As Mith is too busy at the moment, she's given me permission to post the next password. Here it is:

1. He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
2. Hobbit known for decorative candy?
3. The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
4. Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
5. Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
6. Paternal biped.

[Galadriel55]

5. Olwe - the German for lion is Lowe, according to Google, so when scrambled it gives the gentleman.

[Pervinca Took]

5. Olwe - the German for lion is Lowe, according to Google, so when scrambled it gives the gentleman.

Indeed it does! Well done.

I think it's a weak masculine noun (like Junge and Neffe), but I'm picturing a classroom and a German teacher from long ago. ;) Think I'm right, though.

1. He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
2. Hobbit known for decorative candy?
3. The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
4. Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
OLWE: Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
6. Paternal biped.

[Mithalwen]

Thanks Perv inca.. I will try to finish one to have in hwnd..

[Mithalwen]

Oh could six be Daddy Twofoot?

[Pervinca Took]

Oh could six be Daddy Twofoot?

It could. ;)

1. He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
2. Hobbit known for decorative candy?
3. The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
4. Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
OLWE: Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
DADDY TWOFOOT: Paternal biped.

[Mithalwen]

There was an Angelica whom Bilbo gave a mirror I think...

[Pervinca Took]

There was an Angelica whom Bilbo gave a mirror I think...

There was. :)

1. He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
ANGELICA (BAGGINS): Hobbit known for decorative candy?
3. The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
4. Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
OLWE: Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
DADDY TWOFOOT: Paternal biped.

[Mithalwen]

Sudden flash of inspiration, I hope..3 Legolas ? Le + anagram of goals

[Pervinca Took]

Sudden flash of inspiration, I hope..3 Legolas ? Le + anagram of goals

Indeed.

1. He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
ANGELICA (BAGGINS): Hobbit known for decorative candy?
LEGOLAS: The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
4. Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
OLWE: Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
DADDY TWOFOOT: Paternal biped.

[Galadriel55]

Is the password Galmod?

[Pervinca Took]

Is the password Galmod?

Yes.

G: He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
ANGELICA (BAGGINS): Hobbit known for decorative candy?
LEGOLAS: The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
M: Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
OLWE: Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
DADDY TWOFOOT: Paternal biped.

[Mithalwen]

In which casee is 1 Gròin father of Glóin father of Gimli

[Galadriel55]

Now we just have to think of a shrub that contains "insomnia"...

[Pervinca Took]

GROIN: He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
ANGELICA (BAGGINS): Hobbit known for decorative candy?
LEGOLAS: The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
M: Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
OLWE: Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
DADDY TWOFOOT: Paternal biped.

The remaining clue is probably the hardest, but not that hard.

[Mithalwen]

Or apnœa

[Galadriel55]

Or it could be that "shrub" looses "sleeping", disordered/scrambled. But I still can't find the right shrub or the right sleep - unless the shrub is called "sleeping ___". Apparently there is one called sleeping beauty, but beauty is a pretty hard word to scramble.

[Mithalwen]

I tried working backwards assuming that deceiver is the straight clue and nearly got Maeglin out of magnolia...whomelse Melkor? Morgoth?

[Pervinca Took]

Try googling for an abbreviation of a sleeping disorder.

[Mithalwen]

Ninety eight sets of initials later...

mim? MImosa less osa which is obstructive sleep apnoea

[Galadriel55]

Ninety eight sets of initials later...

Half of which aren't even related to sleep... But great job, Mith! The 98 "related terms" were certainly a daunting task...

[Pervinca Took]

Half of which aren't even related to sleep... But great job, Mith! The 98 "related terms" were certainly a daunting task...

Well, there has to be one daunting task. The others were pretty easy. It's the first thing that comes up if you google OSA. Admittedly you'd need to know the initials first, but I thought they might be known and that if not, looking up sleeping disorders on Wikipedia would take you to those initials. Sleep apnoea is reasonably common. Plus there aren't that many deceivers beginning with M. Working backwards and thinking of enough shrubs would have taken you to it.

Besides, you ought to have noticed by now that I often use answers I've used before, with different clues. Just as Mith uses really obscure names that you have to trawl for for ages (often through more than 98 other names!)

GROIN: He’s expanding, or so ’tis said.
ANGELICA (BAGGINS): Hobbit known for decorative candy?
LEGOLAS: The French purposes (if slightly mixed) reveal him.
MIM: Shrub loses sleeping disorder to reveal a deceiver.
OLWE: Teutonic lion disturbed among the Teleri.
DADDY TWOFOOT: Paternal biped.

Over to Galadriel. :D

[Mithalwen]

It wasn't so bad since most of them were totally irrelevant but I must admit I hadn't thought of initials and was struggling because both plants and diseases tend to have classical names which are not very Tolkieny. Part of me was expecting to find a shrub called Morgocatalepthys!

And having first encountered it in Australia, I tend to think of wattle first. Or the drink!

The obscure names are usually Gilgalad though....:Merisu: and only because there does have to be a challenge and if the clues are just and the words familiar anyone with enough knowledge of Tolkien and cryptic conventions can rattle through them. So either need the word to be odder or the clue twistier. Of course one person's obscure is hopelessly obvious to another. I really didn't realise Yale was obscure but I couldn't resist the elegance of using Ivy league Boffins even if it was solved in a second.

[Pervinca Took]

Yale, with its pun on boffin, was one of my favourite clues. I'm sure I once knew there was somewhere called Yale in the Shire, but had forgotten it. It's odd that it wasn't in the Appendices. I don't think it was even on the map.

[Mithalwen]

According to Hammond and Scull added in the revised Second Edition.

[Galadriel55]

Well, here it goes.


1. Three directions to hills
2. One of those mixed in no ion star here
3. Ring's endpoint
4. Numenorian port without men - O! - receives one wanderer.
5. Small fruit switches direction in stone.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Heren Istarion?

3. Orodruin, perhaps? Or Sammath Naur?

[Galadriel55]

1. Three directions to hills
2. One of those mixed in no ion star here
3. ORODRUIN Ring's endpoint
4. Numenorian port without men - O! - receives one wanderer.
5. Small fruit switches direction in stone.


Heren Istarion is there, but it's not the full clue.

[Mithalwen]

Wildish guess for1 Towere Hills To + West East Right?

[Galadriel55]

Not Tower Hills, but the logic is very similar.

[Pervinca Took]

There's Emyn Arnen, if you can repeat the same direction - but with three N's and two E's it repeats them too many times. Although, according to the Tolkien Gateway, Quenya ar = "beside" " ... beside + N + E gives three directions. Except that "beside" isn't really a direction.

EDIT: Or Emyn Muil has E + N + L(eft).

EDIT: Or "Downs" - but that's four directions - W + N + S plus DOWN.

5. Small fruit switches direction in stone.

I wonder if that could be ERECH - a shortened (small) version of cherry, switched around, with an added direction (E).

[Galadriel55]

Neither one is correct but both are going in the right direction.

[Pervinca Took]

4. Numenorian port without men - O! - receives one wanderer.

There was a Numenorean haven called ROMENNA - minus MEN and O plus A for one, this would give RANA = wanderer, a name for the moon.

[Galadriel55]

Indeed.

1. Three directions to hills
2. One of those mixed in no ion star here
3. ORODRUIN Ring's endpoint
4. RANA Numenorian port without men - O! - receives one wanderer.
5. Small fruit switches direction in stone.

[Pervinca Took]

Might I ask if we're looking for a diagonal password or a regular one?

EDIT:

5. Small fruit switches direction in stone.

SARN is an elvish word for stone, I think. It has the first three letters of raspberry (a small part of a small fruit), switched round, and a direction - N - on the end.

[Galadriel55]

Might I ask if we're looking for a diagonal password or a regular one?

It's neither. It will be very easy to find once the clues are solved, but you can't get it from only a couple clues.

You're getting warmer with the small fruits, but you're thinking of specific ones. Don't. Think of more general categories that could replace part of the clue.

[Pervinca Took]

Well, there's berry, which is more generic as well as small, and could perhaps lead to beryl, which I believe Strider says is an elvish stone ... but I think beryls are actual semi-precious stones in the "real" world too.

Switches direction could mean changes one of the R's for an L?

[Mithalwen]

Beryl I think is another name for peridot.

[Pervinca Took]

From www.thefreedictionary.com :

"beryl [ˈbɛrɪl] n
(Earth Sciences / Minerals) a white, blue, yellow, green, or pink mineral, found in coarse granites and igneous rocks. It is a source of beryllium and used as a gemstone; the green variety is emerald, the blue is aquamarine. Composition: beryllium aluminium silicate. Formula: Be3Al2Si6O18. Crystal structure: hexagonal
[from Old French, from Latin bēryllus, from Greek bērullos, of Indic origin]
beryline adj
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003"

So an emerald is a kind of beryl? Always thought beryl was a gemstone because it's also a woman's name (although now very old-fashioned).

[Mithalwen]

Wrong green stone ooops. I have a neighbor Beryl hut she must be seventy and it isn't an old name that has become fasionable again.

[Galadriel55]

1. Three directions to hills
2. One of those mixed in no ion star here
3. ORODRUIN Ring's endpoint
4. RANA Numenorian port without men - O! - receives one wanderer.
5. BERYL Small fruit switches direction in stone.

Very much correct! I'm not too certain about beryl in our modern world, but in ME is is an elf-stone, one of which Strider found when he went to scout the bridge - a message from Glorfindel.

As for the remaining 2 clues, both have been attempted in the right direction, just not taken far enough. :)

[Mithalwen]

Tyrn Gorthad? Desperation Turn go and...oh i dunno

[Galadriel55]

Tyrn Gorthad? Desperation Turn go and...oh i dunno

No, not that complex. It's three directions put together - regular directions, not instructions directions. Like East-Up-Left could become Eupl. Except that that's not a word. :)

[Pervinca Took]

Far Downs would be Far + Down + S, but Far isn't really a direction and I think it's more likely, if Downs, to be North, South, East or West. I need to look up which of these exist in the Shire, though.

Off the top of my head, I think North Downs might be the one that does.

EDIT: North Downs does indeed exist, but it's Fornost way, north of Bree, and not actually in the Shire.

EDIT: There are also the South Downs, though, which are south of Bree.

BTW I had assumed that Heren Istarion was a place. Looking it up, of course, it's the name given to the order of Five Wizards (which wouldn't make sense with the clue, even if it did have another i).

[Mithalwen]

Missing something hete do we know it has to be in shire?

[Pervinca Took]

It doesn't. That was just me trying to solve the clue. I thought the North Downs were in the Shire. I was just pointing out that they weren't when I found out where they were.

[Mithalwen]

Ok, occurs that the no isn't needed into make Heren Istarion wonder if that is significant.

[Pervinca Took]

You mean you think the answer could be one of the five wizards? One of them mixed in the no (number) - one of the five which make up the Heren Istarion?

Hmmm - Gandalf/Mithrandir/Olorin, Saruman/Curunir/Curumo, Radagast/Aiwendil, Pallando and the other one ... Alatar.

EDIT:

I'm going to guess BROWN LANDS for the password, reading up from the bottom on the first and last letter of every name.

With WIZARD for the Heren Istarion clue and NORTH DOWNS for the first one.

[Galadriel55]

1. NORTH DOWNS Three directions to hills
2. WIZARD One of those mixed in no ion star here
3. ORODRUIN Ring's endpoint
4. RANA Numenorian port without men - O! - receives one wanderer.
5. BERYL Small fruit switches direction in stone.

*bows* Over to Pervinca!

[Mithalwen]

I am being thick here but I don't get why three directions is north? V clever password btw

[Galadriel55]

I am being thick here but I don't get why three directions is north? V clever password btw

Thanks Mith! The three directions are north-down-s.

[Mithalwen]

Thanks Mith! The three directions are north-down-s.

Ah.....
Yes of course...plank moment...

[Pervinca Took]

That was a great password, Galadriel! And the verbal "fruit salads" game was fun.

Feel indebted to Mithalwen for seeing that the second clue was *one of* the Heren Istarion - as that was how I finally saw the password.

Here's the next password. Enjoy!

1. Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
2. Hobbit on a kosher diet?
3. Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
4. The Spanish element has a princely quality.
5. Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
6. Unfortunate bovine creature.
7. Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
8. Troubled double agent in Doriath.
9. A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
10. Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
11. Heavy metal town? Confused.
12. Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
13. Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
14. First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
15. It blooms unwillingly.
16. Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

GladmI helped...wasn't exactly my finest hour...and now the rammas echor is exceeded...but I think 13 is Hasufel, the horse loaned to Aragorn by Eómer.
?

[Pervinca Took]

GladmI helped...wasn't exactly my finest hour...and now the rammas echor is exceeded...but I think 13 is Hasufel, the horse loaned to Aragorn by Eómer.
?

Indeed it is.

1. Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
2. Hobbit on a kosher diet?
3. Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
4. The Spanish element has a princely quality.
5. Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
6. Unfortunate bovine creature.
7. Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
8. Troubled double agent in Doriath.
9. A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
10. Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
11. Heavy metal town? Confused.
12. Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
14. First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
15. It blooms unwillingly.
16. Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

4 Elboron? As only known child of Faramir I assume he would have been Prince of Ithilien in his turn and I auppose Dior's son would have been a prince ..

[Pervinca Took]

4 Elboron? As only known child of Faramir I assume he would have been Prince of Ithilien in his turn and I auppose Dior's son would have been a prince ..

Yes, EL plus the element BORON - Elboron was Faramir's son and so the second Prince of Ithilien - where does Dior's son come into it, though?

1. Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
2. Hobbit on a kosher diet?
3. Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
5. Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
6. Unfortunate bovine creature.
7. Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
8. Troubled double agent in Doriath.
9. A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
10. Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
11. Heavy metal town? Confused.
12. Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
14. First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
15. It blooms unwillingly.
16. Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

Sorry got muddled..in one draft Elured and Elurin were Elboron and Elbereth.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah OK, is that somewhere in HOME?

[Mithalwen]

Prolly. How peculiarv3 is Elured isn't it? Lose E, literally disorientating.removing the east! Lured is enticed.

[Galadriel55]

5. Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?

Funnily enough, for this one the only thing I have so far is Marigold (Gamgee), who is not related to the Tooks and who contains "old". :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Having studied the family trees, Pippin's grandfather - who wasn't a Thain himself, was Adalgrim, which is anagram of Grima lad.

[Pervinca Took]

Prolly. How peculiarv3 is Elured isn't it? Lose E, literally disorientating.removing the east! Lured is enticed.

Very close, but the function of "disorientated" is much less elaborate, and you have changed tense to get to Elured. ;)

Adalgrim is correct, though, and for the reason you stated.

1. Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
2. Hobbit on a kosher diet?
3. Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
6. Unfortunate bovine creature.
7. Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
8. Troubled double agent in Doriath.
9. A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
10. Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
11. Heavy metal town? Confused.
12. Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
14. First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
15. It blooms unwillingly.
16. Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

Will try the other then..Elurin. just an anagram of lure in...overcooked it

[Pervinca Took]

Will try the other then..Elurin. just an anagram of lure in...overcooked it

Yes. I was just trying to avoid using "confused" too many times. I think "disorientated" kind of works as a "scramble/mix/anagram" indicator, but the idea of using it to extract an E is very cool indeed and something I hadn't thought of. ("Loses note/direction/point" is harder to solve, though, of course - several possibilities to choose from).

I thought you might guess that one quickly after your comment re. Dior's sons. ;)

Thought "within" a bit naff but couldn't think of another synonym for "in" in that context.

1. Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
2. Hobbit on a kosher diet?
ELURIN: Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
6. Unfortunate bovine creature.
7. Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
8. Troubled double agent in Doriath.
9. A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
10. Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
11. Heavy metal town? Confused.
12. Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
14. First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
15. It blooms unwillingly.
16. Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

Not a lot of cows in Middle Earth that we see...but Farmer Giles' Galathea gets squished... So I will try her.

Ooh2 Hamfast? Been bugging me all day.

[Galadriel55]

Ooh2 Hamfast? Been bugging me all day.

Ohhh, I get it! Good one!

[Mithalwen]

Stab atvthe password The Eagle and Child?

[Pervinca Took]

All three correct! :)

And I was going to say that Tolkien was usually kind to animals in his tales ... but then I remembered that two sets of ponies got eaten. (At least, I think the goblins would have eaten the first lot). And Snowmane didn't have a very easy end, either.

Chilling thought, but JRRT must have known how many horses suffered and perished in the Great War. :( I wonder if that is somehow reflected in his stories, as one of the realities of war. I really ought to read that John Garth book that I bought so long ago ....

T: Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
HAMFAST: Hobbit on a kosher diet?
ELURIN: Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
GALATHEA: Unfortunate bovine creature.
L: Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
E: Troubled double agent in Doriath.
A: A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
N: Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
D: Heavy metal town? Confused.
C: Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
I: First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
L: It blooms unwillingly.
D: Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

Oh the dragon ones...yes I think Bill's unlikely survival was penance maybe. But The hobbit was written before horses had been totally superseded as transport and become merely recreational.

Totally awesome password. I was baffled by the double e since it clearly wasn't Bree. Then was looking for eagle places in middle earth.

[Pervinca Took]

I already had a password ready, but I got clue-writing fever last weekend when we were puzzling over Galadriel's, and for some reason decided out of nowhere to try to do The Eagle And Child. Am working on one a bit more along the lines of Galadriel's last one, too (I hope that's OK?). (Because that was doublepluscool). ;)

[Mithalwen]

Oxonmoot on your mind....

[Pervinca Took]

Probably. ;)

[Galadriel55]

Am working on one a bit more along the lines of Galadriel's last one, too (I hope that's OK?). (Because that was doublepluscool). ;)

You are to goodmindful (I'd say thoughtful but that's a word that would not exist alongside doublepluscool :)). I'm not the first one to twist the password - a while ago I read through this thread, and what tricks and scrambles you can't find! In one password you had to take the first letter of the answer and the first letter of the clue to get the password.

[Pervinca Took]

Codebreakers, indeed. :cool:

I'll be away until Sunday evening, but Mith can text me if any answers need confirming, and post my replies (or the gist of them) on my behalf.

[Mithalwen]

Last one I think is Durin calledvdeathless and anagram of druid if you switch a d for n.

Edit have texted Pervinca and thismis correct

[Mithalwen]

Trying Aros for the a ..anagram of oars.

[Mithalwen]

Trying Aros for the a ..anagram of oars.

And Dale anagram of lead

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, all three correct, as confirmed by text.

T: Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
HAMFAST: Hobbit on a kosher diet?
ELURIN: Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
GALATHEA: Unfortunate bovine creature.
L: Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
E: Troubled double agent in Doriath.
AROS: A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
N: Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
DALE: Heavy metal town? Confused.
C: Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
I: First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
L: It blooms unwillingly.
DURIN: Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

Sure this is wrkng but fixating .Eglador for the Doriath one and Lissuin for the bloom on. But neither fully work.

[Pervinca Took]

No. But to make it easier, the remaining E is a person you might find in Doriath, and the "bloom one" is a linguistic clue.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I think I've worked out some of these.

LOTHLORIEN is the reluctant bloomer
LAWKS is, I suspect the exclamation
CEORL is the warrior
and ILMARË is the heavenly helpmeet

There are some difficult ones in there. I shall have to get my thinking cap on.

[Mithalwen]

I wondered about ceorl because all the letters are in Celeborn but was stymied by beak.
I couldn't get beyond laps for roundabout perambulations....gah

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Celeborn - neb then unscramble

[Pervinca Took]

Well done! Mostly correct. "Neb" is found more in northern dialect, perhaps (nowadays, at least) - "Keep your neb out" was an expression my mother was quite fond of.

Yes, Ilmare is "I" plus "realm," Varda's helpmeet (and both quite concerned with the stars and the heavens). I did look up helpmeet, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a helper who is a mate as in partner (although it usually is).

Lothlorien is very nearly right, but I usually account for every bit of the word ... you've just provided a little too much. Maybe splitting hairs, but ....

I'd say the first T is the most obscure of those remaining. But it's findable.

T: Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
HAMFAST: Hobbit on a kosher diet?
ELURIN: Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
GALATHEA: Unfortunate bovine creature.
LAWKS: Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
E: Troubled double agent in Doriath.
AROS: A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
N: Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
DALE: Heavy metal town? Confused.
CEORL: Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
ILMARE: First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
LOTH: It blooms unwillingly.
DURIN: Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

Never heard of neb. But I am a Southron...

[Mithalwen]

Oh is the L just loth ..Sindarin for Flower?

[Pervinca Took]

Yes (now edited into my last post).

[Mithalwen]

Oooooh Elmo...Thingol's mysterioua and possibly Muppet brother. Anagram of mole.

[Pervinca Took]

Good work! (Completely confused on the Muppet aspect, though) ...was he considered an Elf of very little brain, or did he do some daft things that I've forgotten?

T: Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
HAMFAST: Hobbit on a kosher diet?
ELURIN: Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
GALATHEA: Unfortunate bovine creature.
LAWKS: Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
ELMO: Troubled double agent in Doriath.
AROS: A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
N: Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
DALE: Heavy metal town? Confused.
CEORL: Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
ILMARE: First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
LOTH: It blooms unwillingly.
DURIN: Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

[Mithalwen]

Noooo Elmo isbthe name of a red monster Muppet with an orange nose. No wonder they kept him quiet.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I think the homely place is Needlehole

[Pervinca Took]

I think the homely place is Needlehole

Yes (from the Bible verse about a rich man being unable to enter heaven, of course).

Now I write it out, I realise that the needle's eye was only part of the simile involving the camel, and not the actual thing the rich man had to get through to enter Paradise.

T: Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
HAMFAST: Hobbit on a kosher diet?
ELURIN: Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
GALATHEA: Unfortunate bovine creature.
LAWKS: Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
ELMO: Troubled double agent in Doriath.
AROS: A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
NEEDLEHOLE: Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
DALE: Heavy metal town? Confused.
CEORL: Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
ILMARE: First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
LOTH: It blooms unwillingly.
DURIN: Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

Am working hard at the cryptic clue in the other thread, but no success as yet.

[Galadriel55]

I would guess Tol Eressea for the remaining clue, mainly for the Isle part. It contains aero and soar, but in both cases the remaining letters don't make sense...

[Pervinca Took]

No, the name's a bit more obscure than Tol Eressea. It's on the Blessed Isle, and the clue accounts for all the letters of the answer.

[Mithalwen]

Tavrobel..just becausr it is the only place beginning with T I can find not because i have accounted for the letters alas

[Pervinca Took]

Tavrobel..just becausr it is the only place beginning with T I can find not because i have accounted for the letters alas

TAVROBEL indeed! It's AVER + BOLT mixed up (declare and sudden flight).

TAVROBEL: Declare sudden flight in confusion on the Blessed Isle.
HAMFAST: Hobbit on a kosher diet?
ELURIN: Entice within? Disorientated. One of a doomed pair.
ELBORON: The Spanish element has a princely quality.
ADALGRIM: Young Wormtongue confused at Great Smials?
GALATHEA: Unfortunate bovine creature.
LAWKS: Roundabout perambulations, Merry exclaims.
ELMO: Troubled double agent in Doriath.
AROS: A mixture of rowing implements needed here.
NEEDLEHOLE: Probably a homely place, if no entrance to paradise.
DALE: Heavy metal town? Confused.
CEORL: Galadriel’s squeeze keeps beak out for a warrior.
HASUFEL: Ash fuel used for transport in Rohan.
ILMARE: First person joins troubled kingdom. A heavenly helpmeet.
LOTH: It blooms unwillingly.
DURIN: Legendary priest gets muddled and loses note, but gains direction as immortal, perhaps?

Over to Mithalwen. :)

[Mithalwen]

Ohhhh aver i would never have got.... and bolt would have taken a while..ok.. i am working on one..

[Galadriel55]

Where is Tavrobel? :confused:

[Pervinca Took]

It's a city on Tol Eressea. It's mentioned in The Book Of Lost Tales - but I forget if it's volume one or two. I was trawling on The Tolkien Gateway when I found it. Here:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tavrobel

I don't think Mith's Artanaro was even on The Tolkien Gateway. It took an even wider internet search to find!

[Mithalwen]

There was a character in the Shire inn rpg fr a while called Tavrobelion but i struggld with lost tale must try again.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

One of the books seen and translated by Aelfwine was the Golden Book of Tavrobel. In the preamble to his English version he mentions that Pengolod the Wise carried it when he left Middle-earth and completed it there.

[Mithalwen]

1 Departed Scandinavian king?
2 A strain for this lady?
3 LINDON Mafia boss after French cloth here?
4 ANDUIN Great Flower
5 Endless enigma man becomes tragic hero.
6HURIN THALION Comic muse takes direction for this hero's epesse.
7 RINGBEARER Any of about ten men, various dwarves, four halflingsthree and a half elves or a brace of Maia.
8 IMLOTH MELUI Mo lit helium in Gondor
9 Elvish jewel precedes unseen rays or spirit?

Not my finest effort sorry

[Galadriel55]

4. Anduin

6. Thalion

7. Ringbearer?

[Mithalwen]

Anduin and ringbearer are right. Thalion isnt wrong despite me missing out a bit of the clue. You njust need to take it one more step.

[Pervinca Took]

I think number three ends in DON for Mafia boss. But none of the French words for cloth or rag seem to work. "Loque" was the one I knew without heading to Google Translate.

I did find "lambeau" meaning "shred, rag, tatter," but I guess Lamedon is a bit of a stretch from there.

I love the Ringbearer clue, and am awed by Galadriel's classical knowledge - I had to look that up before I found Thalia. (One could argue that you left Deagol and Celebrimbor out of the Ringbearer clue, but that would be to split hairs). ;)

I'd suggest Cuthalion - but I can't justify it from the clue.

[Mithalwen]

Oh it is simpler than that. i just had a surfeit of t clues so you just need the peron whose epesse is Thalion.....
Don is right and the cloth you hardly need french for.. while despite two years in France and a French degree and a degree in french both loque and lambeau are new to me..

[Galadriel55]

Hurin, then?

I love the Ringbearer clue, and am awed by Galadriel's classical knowledge - I had to look that up before I found Thalia.

To be honest, I had to look her up too. For some reason I was thinking that the comedy muse was Terpsichore, which is a very awkward name to work with. I need to polish my greek myths.

[Pervinca Took]

Maybe the French cloth means a kind of material originating in France, then. Unfortunately, the only one I know is tulle (I believe I went to the town of Tulle during a family holiday in the 80's).

Hmmmm ... Tulledon or scrambled tulle isn't really taking me anywhere, though. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Yes Hurin. No to tulle and much less obsure.

[Galadriel55]

8. shot in the dark - Minas Anor?

[Mithalwen]

8. shot in the dark - Minas Anor?

No. Sorry maybe I should have put an anagram indicator in.

[Pervinca Took]

3 Mafia boss after French cloth here?

Lindon? Worked backwards from the only other -don place I could think of, and looked up "lin" to see if it meant anything in French (possibly cognate with the word "linen"). Apparently it does indeed mean flax or linen in French.

8 Mo lit helium in Gondor

Imloth Melui? (I guessed this one was an anagram, but I kept trying to do things with Ithil, and wondered at one point if it was one of the beacons and and the "lit" element was part straight and part cryptic ....)

And perhaps Galadhrim for the password? (If correct, more credit due to Galadriel than to me).

5 isn't Durin, is it?

[Mithalwen]

Yes I thought since so few don places lin might be recognised from linseed or lingerie lining even. the botanical name is linum but I suspect lin may be coparable to golden woodem leaden woolen etc

I was going to use Ioreth but her old home was more of a challenge.
Not Durin Not Galathrim

[Mithalwen]

Oh just to clarify I deliberately excluded Celebrimbor and Deagol since I feel Ringbearer signifys more than haviing them in your possession for longer than "ooh shiny! mine! No! Aargh!" and while Celebrimbor made the three he seems apart somehow.

[Pervinca Took]

Yes - I knew "linge" for linen used in the context of laundry/washing,but not "lin" until I looked it up. Agreed about Deagol - I just like to think of him as the forgotten Ringbearer. After all, he had already given Smeagol a present. ;)

I wonder if any Silmaril lore passed to Celebrimbor from his grandfather, and whether it's mere coincidence that they both made three of what they made. (Feanor possibly made the 9 Palantiri too, of course).

5. Barking up entirely the wrong tree, I'm sure, but the only real "enigma man" I can think of (unless you count why Beorn is sometimes a bear) is Bombadil. And I suppose he's endless. How the "tragic hero" could fit I don't know, unless his other name, Iarwain Ben-adar, is also the name of a tragic hero in another tale.

Unless - cutting the end off enigma was giving me no joy - perhaps it's "enigma man" one needs to take the scissors to. Synoynms of the term haven't led me anywhere, so ....

[Mithalwen]

But Déagol would be slippery slope to including Bombadil...

[Pervinca Took]

Deagol did possess it, though, just for a few moments, before the next keeper claimed it, whilst it was just passed or lent to Bombadil for a few minutes, then went back to its keeper.

Not disputing, just musing. ;)

EDIT: I'd say Haladhrim, but I can't seem to find an instance of it. And Haradrim doesn't seem to include the second H.

[Mithalwen]

Neither right . You were closer before.now panicking and will check I haven't made up a word.

[Galadriel55]

EDIT: I'd say Haladhrim, but I can't seem to find an instance of it. And Haradrim doesn't seem to include the second H.

1
2
3 LINDON
4 ANDUIN
5
6 HURINTHALION
7 RINGBEARER
8 IMLOTHMELUI
9

The names are quite long towards the end, which could of course just be a coincidence, but I think that the password might be diagonal or backwards-diagonal or something. A diagonal one would give _ _ NU_TAE_. Which doesn't give anything. I'm very tempted to say the password is a straight IMLADRIS, but it doesn't have the H.