Password

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Gollum is right and for the right reasons. Some of the reasoning for #1 is heading in the right direction, but a lot of it isn't. Galadriel has the password, which is indeed mellon. Incidentally, mellon does appear on the Doors of Moria: ennyn Durin aran Moria. Pedo mellon a minno.

1. Loiterers in disarray using southern coinage
2. IORETH One alternative, possibly, from royal authority
3. GALDOR Confused, pleased with gold supplied by shipyard agent
4. PALLANDO Grim drapery and ring make one blue
5. ANGRENOST Bewilderingly, no strange place for a quiet smoke
6. GOLLUM Birthday boy is, note, possibly amused with hesitation

[Galadriel55]

Ha! I was trying to squish Bilbo and Frodo into the birthday clue. Good one, Mith!

I'll take a stab at Nandor for the first but last clue, for a lack of better ideas.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'll take a stab at Nandor for the first but last clue

That was a good stab. It was an anagram of ON RAND. You have the floor, I think.

1. NANDOR Loiterers in disarray using southern coinage
2. IORETH One alternative, possibly, from royal authority
3. GALDOR Confused, pleased with gold supplied by shipyard agent
4. PALLANDO Grim drapery and ring make one blue
5. ANGRENOST Bewilderingly, no strange place for a quiet smoke
6. GOLLUM Birthday boy is, note, possibly amused with hesitation

[Galadriel55]

Hoom humm. Alright. This is an unconventional password and for a certain reason it does not follow the conventions of cryptic clues in that it does not have straight clues. But, so that it's not utterly blind guesswork, none of these is a place or a thing. I don't know how much or how little this gives you, and I'll gladly give more hints about the clues.

1. Confused elderly sprinted
2. Reverse angry article
3. First to die, yet follows monk's chopped off head
4. First of famous explorer who found not what he sought
5. Greet a man deprived of a right
6. Make amends before the start of hegemony
7. Mix the foreign regret


Happy riddling!

[Mithalwen]

7 Reuel? Rue and el or le . Bit desperate..

[Galadriel55]

:)


1. Confused elderly sprinted
2. Reverse angry article
3. First to die, yet follows monk's chopped off head
4. First of famous explorer who found not what he sought
5. Greet a man deprived of a right
6. Make amends before the start of hegemony
7. REUEL Mix the foreign regret

[Mithalwen]

OK..in that case I will hazard Ronald for 1(anagram of Run + old)

[Galadriel55]

Right again. :)

1. RONALD Confused elderly sprinted
2. Reverse angry article
3. First to die, yet follows monk's chopped off head
4. First of famous explorer who found not what he sought
5. Greet a man deprived of a right
6. Make amends before the start of hegemony
7. REUEL Mix the foreign regret

[Pervinca Took]

Carrying on the same theme, EDITH for 6? (Edit + h).

[Galadriel55]

1. RONALD Confused elderly sprinted
2. Reverse angry article
3. First to die, yet follows monk's chopped off head
4. First of famous explorer who found not what he sought
5. Greet a man deprived of a right
6. EDITH Make amends before the start of hegemony
7. REUEL Mix the foreign regret

[Pervinca Took]

Could 4 be Christopher? First name of Christopher Columbus, who thought he'd found America but had found the West Indies.

[Mithalwen]

In which case 2 could be Adam if you take mad the American way to be angry not crazy and A is an article.

[Galadriel55]

Both correct. But Columbus didn't think he found America, or history would look a little - or big - bit different. ;) Any guesses at the password yet?

1. RONALD Confused elderly sprinted
2. ADAM Reverse angry article
3. First to die, yet follows monk's chopped off head
4. CHRISTOPHER First of famous explorer who found not what he sought
5. Greet a man deprived of a right
6. EDITH Make amends before the start of hegemony
7. REUEL Mix the foreign regret

[Mithalwen]

3 Mabel initial of Monk andwas Abel the first person. To die according to the Bible?

[Pervinca Took]

5. HILARY

Hi + Larry missing one of the R's.

(At first I thought it was Simon and was trying to do something with Sir ....)

[Galadriel55]

1. RONALD Confused elderly sprinted
2. ADAM Reverse angry article
3. MABEL First to die, yet follows monk's chopped off head
4. CHRISTOPHER First of famous explorer who found not what he sought
5. HILARY Greet a man deprived of a right
6. EDITH Make amends before the start of hegemony
7. REUEL Mix the foreign regret

Now just the password. :)

[Mithalwen]

Oh I wondered about Hilary but got stuck cos was working on Hail and then wondered about Michael bit that obviously went wrong too..

[Pervinca Took]

I was trying to make Hilary out of Hail, too. I thought Michael might have been the Mabel answer, but, as you demonstrated, it wasn't.

Well, I've even looked at some of the lines of letters in rot13, and I still can't find the password! First line down is an anagram of charmer, recharm, marcher and remarch, but none of these seem to have a Tolkien connection. ;)

[Mithalwen]

We have had ssome non standard passwords which had a link word...Saucy I think did one where itvwas Tol... so could it simply be Tolkien? Unless Ramcher is a discarded name gor an obscure character only featuring in a HoME footnote.

[Mithalwen]

Oh I thought of Michael to since of the M indicator and being first of Tolkien's children to die.

[Pervinca Took]

Great password anyway, Galadriel. It's always fun to have a change. :)

[Galadriel55]

You have it, Mith. The password is Tolkien. That's also the straight clue to every single person on there. I haven't read any HOME books, though I've skimmed through a couple, and I wouldn't make the password that obscure. ;) Anyways, the stage is yours.

[Mithalwen]

1. DEAGOL Murdered, confused, gaoled.
2. Will the artist have his day? Sounds like it.
3. ANGELIMIR Prince is unendingly virtuous in face of Elvish gem.
4. Rearrange twilight right after singer.
5. Great elf confused in churchgoers furlong.
6. OLWË Relocated German lion king.
7. RIVER-DAUGHTER Flower child?
8. Heart of the Easterling?
9. Future king, from Dorwinion maybe.
10. GLORFINDEL Dwarf took fright initially about direction before guided back to elf.

[Pervinca Took]

6. Olwe? (Anagram of Lowe, German for lion).

[Mithalwen]

indeed.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Deagol. Anagram of gaoled, and he was murdered.

Password: Dorthonion?

[Galadriel55]

7. Elanor?

[Mithalwen]

Deagol correct.
Dorthonion not.
One day, galadriel, I may write a clue when a flower is a flower. Today is not that day.

[Pervinca Took]

Goldberry, the River-Daughter?

[Mithalwen]

Goldberry, the River-Daughter?

Yep but it is simply river daughter you need.

[Pervinca Took]

Was thinking Nimrodel at first (when I thought Dorthonion was the password).

[Pervinca Took]

10. Dwarf took fright initially about direction before guided back to elf.

I think this is GLORFINDEL.

GLOIN + F (initial of 'fright') + R mixed up (about), followed by LED (for guided) backwards.

[Mithalwen]

Yep. Groin would work too with L for left.

[Pervinca Took]

I started with Fror (is there even a dwarf called Fror?) or it might have been Gror, and tried Groin but plumped for Gloin in the end ....

[Mithalwen]

So no more guesses?

[Pervinca Took]

Well, I have two ideas for clue number three, but I can only justify half the clue with the answer in both cases. I can make the "elvish gem" part work, but not the "unendingly virtuous" part.

Unless - and this is a pretty long shot - "unendingly virtuous" could simply mean it doesn't need to have the ending letter of virtuous - the s - and Imrahil can be derived from Silmaril that way - but an L also has to turn into an H for that to happen. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Well, I have two ideas for clue number three, but I can only justify half the clue with the answer in both cases. I can make the "elvish gem" part work, but not the "unendingly virtuous" part.

Unless - and this is a pretty long shot - "unendingly virtuous" could simply mean it doesn't need to have the ending letter of virtuous - the s - and Imrahil can be derived from Silmaril that way - but an L also has to turn into an H for that to happen. ;)

Wrong but ingenious and oddly not a million miles off. Unending does indeed mean you need to lose a last letter. But it isn't as complicated as you have made it. Have another look. Only. 2 and the password are really obscure imo but we are in Sil, UT, appendices territory rather than HoME or LOTR or Hobbit.

[Pervinca Took]

Well, if a prince called Moramir existed, I would guess that - Moral loses the last letter and adds mir for jewel. ;) My other guess was Faramir, but mir (the elvish for jewel) is the only part of my answer that I can justify.

[Mithalwen]

He doesn't but nevertheless the mir 3lement is correct. Wrong synonym.

[Pervinca Took]

The closest I can get is Aravir. Ara means royal/noble, and apparently mir is lenited to vir. However, the unending bit is not there.

[Mithalwen]

Nope. Maybe this one is more obscure than I thought but it is a "fair" clue and I can't hint more without telling.

Maybe try some of the others first.

[Pervinca Took]

1. DEAGOL Murdered, confused, gaoled.
2. Will the artist have his day? Sounds like it.
3. Prince is unendingly virtuous in face of Elvish gem.
4. Rearrange twilight right after singer.
5. Great elf confused in church furlong.
6. OLWË Relocated German lion king.
7. RIVER-DAUGHTER Flower child?
8. Heart of the Easterling?
9. Future king, from Dorwinion maybe.
10. GLORFINDEL Dwarf took fright initially about direction before guided back to elf.

OK, taking your hint that Imrahil was not a million miles away from the answer, I looked up the Princes of Dol Amroth, and one of them was called ANGELIMIR. 'Angelic' for virtuous loses its last letter and adds 'mir' (the elvish word for jewel), mayhaps?

(Sighs happily - it's always nice to have an excuse to think of those swan-knights). ;)

(And as for the scene where Imrahil carries Faramir from the stricken field ....)

Ahem.

[Mithalwen]

Imrahil is wonderful and he notices Eowyn is alive and is one of my favourites..so forget that not everyone has memorizes his family tree. Angelimir was his granfather, and who knows possibly an inspiration for Faramir and Boromir's name.

[Mithalwen]

1. DEAGOL Murdered, confused, gaoled.
2. RODYN Will the artist have his day? Sounds like it.
3. ANGELIMIR Prince is unendingly virtuous in face of Elvish gem.
4. MAGLOR Rearrange twilight right after singer.
5. BELEG Great elf confused in church furlong.
6. OLWË Relocated German lion king.
7. RIVER-DAUGHTER Flower child?
8. LORGAN. Heart of the Easterling?
9. ELFWINE Future king, from Dorwinion maybe.
10. GLORFINDEL Dwarf took fright initially about direction before guided back to elf.

[Pervinca Took]

Password: DRAMBORLEG, the great axe of Tuor?

(Found it in the index of "Unfinished Tales").

[Mithalwen]

Indeed and that should give a lot of help.

[Pervinca Took]

Beleg was a great elf, and I suppose a furlong could be a 'leg,' but confused and church? Hmmm ....

[Mithalwen]

Beleg was a great elf and beleg means great in elvish. It is also an anagram of glebe which is the church furlong

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, ok ... I thought furlong could only be a length of distance, not an area.

Looking for Rembrandt and Raphael soundalikes as we speak. ;)

[Mithalwen]

That one is obscure the others are much easier. I. Kne.w glebe was church land. Church furlong eas givn as synonym

[Pervinca Took]

Just wondering if the future king could be ENVINYATAR (the Renewer, one of Aragorn's names), and if the connection with Dorwinion could be the wine of that region and the strength-renewing properties of wine?

[Mithalwen]

Not Envinyatar. You are over thinking.

[Pervinca Took]

Well, I think Dorwinion was near or by the Sea of Rhun. EORL was a future king and he rode south to Rhun, although he was born in the far north.

[Pervinca Took]

Lorgan was a prominent Easterling - the heart is an organ? Not sure about the L, unless the heart is to the left of the body?

I once used Lorgan as an answer, I think - record and sprinted slightly confused (log ran).

[Mithalwen]

Lorgan is correct. The heart is a little tovthe left in most people. Eorl isn't. By that logic any king is a future king.

[Pervinca Took]

Eldarion, then. He was my first guess, but I can't find a connection with Dorwinion. I kind of thought Eorl fit because he was the first King of Rohan, heir to that position, as it were, before the kingdom yet existed.

[Mithalwen]

Still no.

[Pervinca Took]

Lorgan is correct. The heart is a little tovthe left in most people. Eorl isn't. By that logic any king is a future king.

Problem is, I can't think of any king that isn't a future king in that sense.

Elessar is a future king, but the name means Elfstone, not future king.

[Mithalwen]

Still no.

[Pervinca Took]

As Eomer's son, Elfwine was a future king of Rohan. Dorwinion is heavily connected with wine. I think men make the wine, although Thranduil and co are well-known for drinking it.

[Mithalwen]

Yep. Since Dorwinion is only mentioned in the context of Elvish drinking. I thought it was good enough

[Pervinca Took]

Indeed. Although, like a plank, I started thinking of King Arthur because of "The once and future king" and that made me think of Aelfwine/Elfwine, because they both sailed to an island ... and then I remembered there was another Elfwine ....

[Pervinca Took]

4. M Rearrange twilight right after singer.

MAGLOR, who was a singer/bard.

Gloam (archaic word for twilight) rearranged, plus R for right.

At first I thought it wasn't obscure enough, but having checked it's the other clue that you said was the obscure one.

[Mithalwen]

I thought that was the easiest since singer ending in r has to be Maglor or lindir... pretty much

[Pervinca Took]

Yes, but I was thinking it was clue 2, which you said was the obscure one, so was expecting it to be harder. Whereas it's actually clue 4. Olwe was the easiest one for me, because I too had once scrambled it to Lowe.

[Mithalwen]

Misreading things completely is liable to make things harder :cool:

[Pervinca Took]

Am thinking RA for Royal Academy, and that I need to consult some appendices. Problem is, there is a highly precarious stack of books balancing in front of the nearest copy of The Silmarilion. ;)

[Pervinca Took]

2. R Will the artist have his day? Sounds like it.

Well, having decided that the answer is more likely to be a day than a person, I went looking for elvish words for days instead:

"Friday : Orbelain (Rodyn)"

This is quoted from a Barrow-Downs thread started in 2003.

As "Rodyn" is in brackets, I guess it's obscure, more obscure than Orbelain, (only one other day had an alternative in brackets, I think), and as it maybe sounds like Rodin, the sculptor of "The Kiss," I guess it would work for "the artist," as if Rodyn could sound like it was his day.

Rodin sounds like "Rodan," I think. I'd pronounce Rodyn "Rodinn," not knowing otherwise, but I'm not 100% confident with my elvish pronunciation.

[Mithalwen]

Maybe I should have put looks a bit likev ir..anyway Rodyn it is.

[Pervinca Took]

Some worthy brainteasers there, Mith!

I finished this one at the weekend:

1. Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
2. Great month? In translation, certainly.
3. Virginia Woolf’s destination?
4. Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
5. Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
6. Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

[Mithalwen]

3 Calmindon....I was sure 5here was a lighthouse somewhere...in this case Tol Uinen

[Pervinca Took]

1. Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
2. Great month? In translation, certainly.
CALMINDON: Virginia Woolf’s destination?
4. Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
5. Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
6. Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I was hopng to get all of these before having a stab at the password, but maybe the thread will move again if I post what I've got so far.

4 - Cabed-en-Aras
5 - Needlehole
6 - Siril

[Mithalwen]

I considered needlehole but couldn't get it to workmbeyond containing eel... care to enlighten this plank?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Reckless = no heed. I have no idea where the last l comes from, so I'm probably wrong.

[Mithalwen]

Ah ok. Thanks Squatter

[Pervinca Took]

Quite right, Squatter, you're wrong!

But only on that one.

1. Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
2. Great month? In translation, certainly.
CALMINDON: Virginia Woolf’s destination?
CABED-EN-ARAS: Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
5. Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
SIRIL: Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

Siril: Iris backwards, adds L, reveals another flower - "Or does it?" is because it's the other kind of flower.

I couldn't remember Cabed-En-Aras at first, because I wrote it a while ago, apart from sounds like "see a bed," but looking at it again, it's a confused/scrambled "snare" with an "A" trapped in it.

Needlehole is the wrong hamlet. This one's a lot easier than you think. You have basically chosen the wrong synonym.

I don't think 1 and 2 are all that hard, either.

[Mithalwen]

Only easier if you think outside the Shire (and I scoured the Journeys of Frodo) and go to Warwickshire SAREHOLE : anagram of RASH and eel with another O (nothing).

Oh and I thought they were fiendish every river every flower, every settlement I could find tried and failed. Cabed en aras never occured maybe because it is about the only elvish word I mentally pronounce correctly!

[Pervinca Took]

Only easier if you think outside the Shire (and I scoured the Journeys of Frodo) and go to Warwickshire SAREHOLE : anagram of RASH and eel with another O (nothing).

Oh and I thought they were fiendish every river every flower, every settlement I could find tried and failed. Cabed en aras never occured maybe because it is about the only elvish word I mentally pronounce correctly!

Ah, but after Squatter's last one I had to make them fiendish! And if Needlehole had been posted earlier, I'd have given a hint to lead you to the right answer.

I agree that Cabed-En-Aras and Siril were hard, but it's not the first time the "real world Tolkien" card has been played, and I thought Sarehole would be an interesting wild card. It's the first hamlet that springs to my mind when Tolkien is mentioned.

Very surprised number one hasn't been guessed yet.

1. Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
2. Great month? In translation, certainly.
CALMINDON: Virginia Woolf’s destination?
CABED-EN-ARAS: Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
SAREHOLE: Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
SIRIL: Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

[Pervinca Took]

Just wanted to let you know that I'll be away for a fortnight starting 1st August. Anyone want to have a stab at the password and/or remaining clues?

[Mithalwen]

Err I haven't been hanging back all this time through modesty. Genuinely tried repeatedly and failed.

[Galadriel55]

Ditto. I had a few thoughts about both 1 and 2, but not enough time to research possibilities, and those that I found didn't work. :(

[Pervinca Took]

Look at all possible diagonals, and the password should be easy to guess.


1. Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
2. Great month? In translation, certainly.
CALMINDON: Virginia Woolf’s destination?
CABED-EN-ARAS: Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
SAREHOLE: Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
SIRIL: Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

[Mithalwen]

Lembas maybe for password though it doesn't help me with other clues.

[Pervinca Took]

- - - - - L: Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
- - - - E: Great month? In translation, certainly.
CALMINDON: Virginia Woolf’s destination?
CABED-EN-ARAS: Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
SAREHOLE: Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
SIRIL: Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I had a feeling that was the password, but only just now did 1 occur to me. I think this deals with the other two clues.

1. Narsil
2. Rethe

[Galadriel55]

1. Narsil

Heh, I kept trying to scramble Rumil. Good one!

[Pervinca Took]

NARSIL: Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
- - - - E: Great month? In translation, certainly.
CALMINDON: Virginia Woolf’s destination?
CABED-EN-ARAS: Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
SAREHOLE: Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
SIRIL: Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

Narsil is correct, but Rethe is the wrong month. ;)

March a great month, Squatter? Were you thinking of "In like a lion, out like a lamb"?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Nárië means 'sunny'. I suppose that could be a great month.

[Pervinca Took]

Try sorting out the "great" before you translate it into Elvish.

[Mithalwen]

Either Hrive or Laire the long months or short seasons of the elves?#

[Pervinca Took]

No. See above. Which month already ALSO means 'great' in English?

Then translate it into Elvish.

[Mithalwen]

Ok, OK I thought you might have meant great as in size but really wish I hadn't tried now..

[Pervinca Took]

They were excellent answers, but the real answer is a lot easier than that. And yes, great in size was a logical interpretation. Sorry if I came across as snippy.

There is a month, in English, which also means great as in impressive, exalted, prestigious. All you have to do is take that month and find an elvish translation for it.

[Firefoot]

I think it's Urime.

[Pervinca Took]

NARSIL Rumil slain in confusion? Initially, but not by this.
URIME Great month? In translation, certainly.
CALMINDON: Virginia Woolf’s destination?
CABED-EN-ARAS: Spy a resting place, we hear; then trap note in confusion here.
SAREHOLE: Hamlet adds nothing to reckless eel’s confusion.
SIRIL: Flower returns, gains direction, reveals another. Or does it?

Quite right, Firefoot. :)

The password was solved a long time ago, by Mithalwen. :) So strictly speaking and according to the rules of the thread, it's her go now.

[Mithalwen]

Ok...I think this should be fairly straightforward... the unlikely tropical heat and humidity is not aiding thought... and NB I may not be online on Friday so don't champ at the bit too much if you don't get a quick response.

1, Horse flesh absorbs elemental metal
2, Crazy dance by the sea
3, Mountain ash by another name
4, Slightly confused Italian takes in French seaport
5, Singer follows direction to form a circle

[Pervinca Took]

:)

1. Hasufel? Flesh + Au (gold), scrambled.

I can think of several possibilities for 3 (all Entish in origin). But if it's a straight password, Rowan would seem the best in terms of the initial letter (for providing possibilities for the answer). Rowan isn't specifically Tolkienian in one sense, but Treebeard is very fond of them and I think one of the Cotton brothers' real names might have been Rowan. Probably wrong, but I'll try it.

[Mithalwen]

1, HASUFEL Horse flesh absorbs elemental metal
2, Crazy dance by the sea
3, Mountain ash by another name
4, Slightly confused Italian takes in French seaport
5, Singer follows direction to form a circle


Carry on with thinking about 3

[Pervinca Took]

Oooooooooohhhh ... Ered Lithui? Ash mountains as opposed to the other name for a rowan tree?

[Mithalwen]

That was the designated garden path. You need to progress on from your original answer rather.

[Pervinca Took]

Trying to choose between three possibilities, based on possible password, but I think it might be an offset/diagonal password. Although the only name I could think of would be Helgi from Njal's Saga, who isn't a Tolkien character, I'll try:

Lassemista

because the other two don't look as likely for letter combinations if it IS an 'ordinary' password.

[Mithalwen]

Not Lassemiste

[Pervinca Took]

5. Nenya? N(orth) + Enya?

3. Orofarne?

And maybe HUORN for the password?

2. UMBAR (crazy/scrambled version of RUMBA?)

4. Maybe ROMENNA? Roman + en (part of the word French, or the pronoun 'en'? although not sure if that would work).

Although 'en France' means 'in France,' so I suppose 'en' sometimes correlates to 'in' in English.

[Mithalwen]

Yes, all correct. Obviously too easy but I hoped, clearly in vain, maybe that keeping it simple might lure in a few new players.

[Pervinca Took]

Not really - I was convinced it was a right to left diagonal for quite a while. They were very good clues.

I only made the last one hard because Squatter was guessing them so easily. (And he joined in because we didn't have enough players then).

Well, I don't think this one is too hard. Although there is one little surprise in it.

1. Troubled knowledge will lead you to him.
2. Trignometric function dislocates itself. It’s hard!
3. Alien annexes half a score of valleys here.
4. Unprolific writer shows rabbitlike tendencies?
5. Shire gal who had dealings with Teddy, Archie and Bruno?
6. Unarms a confused villain.
7. Take apart, remove coat, reveal her.

[Nerwen]

Is #3 "Ettendales"?

[Ivriniel]

hey there Pervinca

Tricksy hobbitses!!!

Is number 1. Annatar? (for trouble) Gandalf (to trouble)
and 2. The One Ring? (it's very hard - and it does dis-locate (leaves the bearer) itself by dislodging itself)
and 4. Radagast? or -- ORCS --breed like rabbits, and I've never heard any Orc write much down :)
and 7. Lobelia?
...6. Faramir?
is 7. Luthien
I reckon 3. might be Noldor (in the valleys of Beleriand)

[Mithalwen]

Ivriniel, it may help to be aware that most of these seem to be following conventions of cryptic crossword clues rather than suggestion. For example I think Nerwen is correct about 3 because ETTENDALES is made up of ET = an alien, TEN = half of 20 which is a score and DALES which are valleys. It is also a place indicated by here

.5 is probably Goldilocks Took nee Gamgee... she is a girl from the Shire and I think Teddy, Archie and Bruno are bears who appear in the Father Christmas letters IIRC,
4 I think 4 is Milo Burrowes who got a parting gift from Bilbo which referenced him never answering letters. A pen or stationery I can't recall.

The trig function may mean sin cos or tan is in the answer but I haven't done maths for decades and there are a few anagram hints like confused and troubled.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Troubled knowledge will lead you to him.
2. Trignometric function dislocates itself. It’s hard!
ETTENDALES: Alien annexes half a score of valleys here.
MILO BURROWS: Unprolific writer shows rabbitlike tendencies?
GOLDILOCKS: Shire gal who had dealings with Teddy, Archie and Bruno?
6. Unarms a confused villain.
7. Take apart, remove coat, reveal her.

The three answers given so far are correct, and for the reasons given (except one minor point - Teddy, Archie and Bruno are characters in Mr Bliss, not the Father Christmas Letters).

Mith, you are on the right lines on clue 2. You don't need any maths knowledge beyond knowing the (full) name of one of the trignometric functions.

Ivriniel, Mithalwen is right about all the clues being cryptic. There are tips for cryptic clues - I think on the first page of the Cryptic Clues thread and maybe this one as well ... I will have a look, but my laptop is being a bit cranky and it took me a while to get into this thread this evening.

Your answers were inspired and very interesting, though!

[Ivriniel]

I thought everything had to be middle earth-esque

Sooo instead is 2. Inverse trigonometric function

[Mithalwen]

The answers have to be Tolkienesque. but the clues may not be .. I meant that the answer might contain SIN COS or TAN as an element - and a lot of ME words have Sin or tan elements - sindarin, atani..however looking closer and with hints I now recall sin cos and tan are in full Sine, cosine,and tangent. Dislocation suggests maybe an anagram but I can't think of anything.

Oh I don't own either but I have the JRRT artist and illustrator and I remember seeing bears other than the NPB. Just about all my Tolkien books are in store atm :(

[Ivriniel]

The answers have to be Tolkienesque. but the clues may not be .. I meant that the answer might contain SIN COS or TAN as an element - and a lot of ME words have Sin or tan elements - sindarin, atani..however looking closer and with hints I now recall sin cos and tan are in full Sine, cosine,and tangent. Dislocation suggests maybe an anagram but I can't think of anything.

or - artan arsine arcos (I think), and there - artan - 'atani' - 'dislocates with artan - but Atani are hard?'

um about that 'it's hard' - I can't figure out the emphasis on 'hard'. Are the 'hard' trigonometric functions (or Hard could mean either a 'hard objecty thing' or a 'hard journey' or any of those in the middle earthy word. My head's exploding :)

The 'hard' Maths

Pythagorean, reciprocal and periodic functions - by name (just three)

erm - periodic - Meriadoc is disjoinish and Periodic Functions - are hard.
Pythagorean - Numenorean (if you dislocate at 'ean')
Reciprocal - can't think of any

or for Inverse Pythagorean functions, it's any number that doesn't cross multiply not= 1 or -1. And that's gotta be way too off course hahahaha unless you stretch it - hahaha

Are you allowed to interact with other posters about ideas like this, or are you just supposed to 'pop out the answer'?

[Nerwen]

I believe #2 is "Isen", meaning "iron".

[Mithalwen]

7 Dis.. dismantle is take apart and a mantle can mean a coat

[Nerwen]

or - artan arsine arcos (I think), and there - artan - 'atani' - 'dislocates with artan - but Atani are hard?'

um about that 'it's hard' - I can't figure out the emphasis on 'hard'. Are the 'hard' trigonometric functions (or Hard could mean either a 'hard objecty thing' or a 'hard journey' or any of those in the middle earthy word. My head's exploding :)

The 'hard' Maths

Pythagorean, reciprocal and periodic functions - by name (just three)

erm - periodic - Meriadoc is disjoinish and Periodic Functions - are hard.
Pythagorean - Numenorean (if you dislocate at 'ean')
Reciprocal - can't think of any

or for Inverse Pythagorean functions, it's any number that doesn't cross multiply not= 1 or -1. And that's gotta be way too off course hahahaha unless you stretch it - hahaha

Are you allowed to interact with other posters about ideas like this, or are you just supposed to 'pop out the answer'?

Of course we can discuss things. If it helps, my own answer is based on interpreting "Trigonometric function dislocates itself. It's hard!" as "A word which is the anagram of a trigonometric function and which means (something) hard". Thus sine = Isen = iron. Whether I'm correct or not in this case, that is a typical way for cryptic clues to work.

[Nerwen]

Oh, and "Unarms a" is an anagram of Saruman, the "confused villain" at #6.

[Nerwen]

Hmmn. If we're all right, the password can't be made of initial letters...

[Ivriniel]

Oh I don't own either but I have the JRRT artist and illustrator and I remember seeing bears other than the NPB. Just about all my Tolkien books are in store atm :(

I've never got The Silmarillion far away. Novels get opened to different times in the history more often these days. The North Kingdom is a lot on my mind of late. I've had a look at some of the artwork about Annuminas and Fornost pre and post Angmar. I love bearing with the Amon Sul and Annuminas Stones.

I'll go with

2. Meriadoc as the choice from my post. Periodic Trignometric Functions are hard, and Meriadoc either disjoins/dislocates from Periodic.

[Nerwen]

Pervinca, is #1 "Eorl"?

[Ivriniel]

Of course we can discuss things. If it helps, my own answer is based on interpreting "Trigonometric function dislocates itself. It's hard!" as "A word which is the anagram of a trigonometric function and which means (something) hard". Thus sine = Isen = iron. Whether I'm correct or not in this case, that is a typical way for cryptic clues to work.

Ah, thank you.

Ah, so, are, to interpret 'disjoin' Periodic. You can't 'just decide' that 'disclocates' splits up a term (Periodic) at a point of choice to reform a new word?

[Nerwen]

Ah, thank you.

Ah, so, are, to interpret 'disjoin' Periodic. You can't 'just decide' that 'disclocates' splits up a term (Periodic) at a point of choice to reform a new word?
You certainly could- "dislocate" can be a code for "split". But in this case it wouldn't be a fair clue, in my opinion- too arbitrary, with no real hint of what you're supposed to *do*. To get from "periodic" to "Meriadoc" the clue would need to be something like, "After initial change, trigonometric function dislocates itself, revealing magnificent one".

[Pervinca Took]

EORL: Troubled knowledge will lead you to him.
ISEN: Trignometric function dislocates itself. It’s hard!
ETTENDALES: Alien annexes half a score of valleys here.
MILO BURROWS: Unprolific writer shows rabbitlike tendencies?
GOLDILOCKS: Shire gal who had dealings with Teddy, Archie and Bruno?
SARUMAN: Unarms a confused villain.
DIS: Take apart, remove coat, reveal her.

Now, the password is in a particular shape. Not a shape that to my knowledge has been used before in this thread, but not altogether alien to half an inset one being done twice. :D

Let's see who gets it first! :)

Ivriniel, (mistress of riddles), it's great to have another player on board. When I've posted this, I'll explain a bit more about cryptic clues.

Mith, sorry to hear about the books. :(

[Pervinca Took]

Cryptic sort of means 'hidden.' Cryptic clues often work by giving you the letters that make up the answer in little bits, and/or scrambling parts of them.

Here's an easy example:

SARUMAN: Unarms a confused villain.

'Confused' is often an anagram indicator, as is 'troubled.' The idea being that confusing or disturbing or dislocating something mixes it up.

If you 'confuse' (make an anagram of) UNARMS A, you can get SARUMAN, who is a villain (the 'straight' part of the clue, which indicates the 'actual' answer). The 'straight' part of the clue is usually at the beginning or the end. The fun/difficult part is working out which is the 'straight' part of the clue, and which is the 'cryptic' part.

This one could be seen as slightly harder:

EORL: Troubled knowledge will lead you to him.

because the word you have to trouble/scramble happens to be another word that means knowledge (LORE - a slightly archaic word often used for knowledge/book-learning in Tolkien's books) rather than 'knowledge' itself. If you trouble/scramble LORE, this will lead you to the answer (EORL). 'Him' is the straight part of the clue. It tells you that the answer is a male character.

Also look at Mithalwen's last password, posted just before mine. That was made up of cryptic clues, and contained the standard form of password, where the answer reads down the initial letters. Doing a non-standard one (such as a diagonal password) is what we call 'varying rule 5,' I think (the idea was that once this thread got going, (years ago now!), it would be within the rules to experiment with different arrangements of passwords.

You can also start with a longer word and give instructions to remove bits. For example

DIS: Take apart, remove coat, reveal her.

As Mithalwen rightly pointed out, start with the word DISMANTLE (which means take apart), take away a word meaning coat (MANTLE), and you will reveal HER (straight part of the clue - a female character, in this case the only named female dwarf in Tolkien's books: DIS, the sister of Thorin and mother of Fili and Kili).

Most answers will be names of people or places, but there are other specifically Tolkien things that may be answers too: names of months in the Shire or in elvish, names of flowers, trees or plants, or rivers or seas, words for things in one of Tolkien's invented languages (such as ISEN for iron), and so forth.

...

Also, look out for the word 'direction' in a clue. It could be indicating that you should add the initial letter of one of the directions: these could be N(orth), (W)est, E(ast), S(outh) or sometimes L(eft) or R(ight). You could also have NE, NW, SE, SW for directions. (north-east, north-west, etc).

If it says 'gain direction,' you would add one of the above. For 'lose direction,' you would remove one of those letters from the collection of letters you have in the clue so far (just as Mithalwen removed 'mantle' from 'dismantle' to get DIS).

And one more thing: 'lose a note' or 'gain a note' will usually mean a musical note - and indicate that you should either add or remove A. B, C, D, E, F or G (one of the seven musical notes).

There are others. In crossword clues 'engineer' can indicate add RE for Royal Engineer - and there are others that I don't know or have forgotten, too.

[Galadriel55]

And one more thing: 'lose a note' or 'gain a note' will usually mean a musical note - and indicate that you should either add or remove A. B, C, D, E, F or G (one of the seven musical notes).

There are others. In crossword clues 'engineer' can indicate add RE for Royal Engineer - and there are others that I don't know or have forgotten, too.

I recall ER for Elizabeth Regina being popular a while back. And abbreviations for states are also not unheard of. Also, the notes have the do-re-mi system as well, which might pop up.

SPM made a pretty good post about cryptic clues rules in the Cryptic thread here: http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=73530&postcount=7 . I suggest to take a look at it as it explains how the clues work and how to solve them (and make them).


On a different note, I do my best to follow along, but usually can't sit down for long enough to actually solve anything. Well done to all the guessers!

[Pervinca Took]

That was the post I wanted! Thanks, Galadriel.

Oh ... Milo Burrows ... I think Bilbo's gift to him was a gold pen and ink bottle. (For Mithalwen).

Any idea on the password, Galadriel? ;) (See my hint upthread).

[Mithalwen]

The books are not lost. They are in a special box in ultra secure storage waiting to go back into the special bookcase,, all I need to do is buy a house which I am working on. I do have the Sil I think more or less by accident.. and bizarrely the Hammond and Scull companion....

There are also the little puns of which I am very fond... (learnt literally at my crossword fanatic mother's knee) which means a flower may indicate a river where as a bloomer IS a flower, a spanner a bridge and a butter a goat (something that flows, blooms, spans or butts)

[Pervinca Took]

Oh yes! I'd forgotten about spanner (which I learned from you). I hadn't heard of the butter one.

I suppose a bloomer could be a loaf of bread, too. ;)

[Ivriniel]

Cryptic sort of means 'hidden.' Cryptic clues often work by giving you the letters that make up the answer in little bits, and/or scrambling parts of them.

Here's an easy example:

SARUMAN: Unarms a confused villain.

'Confused' is often an anagram indicator, as is 'troubled.' The idea being that confusing or disturbing or dislocating something mixes it up.

If you 'confuse' (make an anagram of) UNARMS A, you can get SARUMAN, who is a villain (the 'straight' part of the clue, which indicates the 'actual' answer). The 'straight' part of the clue is usually at the beginning or the end. The fun/difficult part is working out which is the 'straight' part of the clue, and which is the 'cryptic' part.

This one could be seen as slightly harder:

EORL: Troubled knowledge will lead you to him.

because the word you have to trouble/scramble happens to be another word that means knowledge (LORE - a slightly archaic word often used for knowledge/book-learning in Tolkien's books) rather than 'knowledge' itself. If you trouble/scramble LORE, this will lead you to the answer (EORL). 'Him' is the straight part of the clue. It tells you that the answer is a male character.

Also look at Mithalwen's last password, posted just before mine. That was made up of cryptic clues, and contained the standard form of password, where the answer reads down the initial letters. Doing a non-standard one (such as a diagonal password) is what we call 'varying rule 5,' I think (the idea was that once this thread got going, (years ago now!), it would be within the rules to experiment with different arrangements of passwords.

You can also start with a longer word and give instructions to remove bits. For example

DIS: Take apart, remove coat, reveal her.

As Mithalwen rightly pointed out, start with the word DISMANTLE (which means take apart), take away a word meaning coat (MANTLE), and you will reveal HER (straight part of the clue - a female character, in this case the only named female dwarf in Tolkien's books: DIS, the sister of Thorin and mother of Fili and Kili).

Most answers will be names of people or places, but there are other specifically Tolkien things that may be answers too: names of months in the Shire or in elvish, names of flowers, trees or plants, or rivers or seas, words for things in one of Tolkien's invented languages (such as ISEN for iron), and so forth.

...

Also, look out for the word 'direction' in a clue. It could be indicating that you should add the initial letter of one of the directions: these could be N(orth), (W)est, E(ast), S(outh) or sometimes L(eft) or R(ight). You could also have NE, NW, SE, SW for directions. (north-east, north-west, etc).

If it says 'gain direction,' you would add one of the above. For 'lose direction,' you would remove one of those letters from the collection of letters you have in the clue so far (just as Mithalwen removed 'mantle' from 'dismantle' to get DIS).

And one more thing: 'lose a note' or 'gain a note' will usually mean a musical note - and indicate that you should either add or remove A. B, C, D, E, F or G (one of the seven musical notes).

There are others. In crossword clues 'engineer' can indicate add RE for Royal Engineer - and there are others that I don't know or have forgotten, too.

oh my god hahahahaha that's all fun :) and I'm sure it's going to be a while before I get a clue right hahahaha - but I'm all for learning by not knowing. It's fun

thank you for the assistance, I'm still sure it's going to be a while before I start to get quick at it. hahahaha

[Ivriniel]

one more question (I'll keep the other posts suggested handy as well, thank you everyone)

with the "ettendales" one, was there a special or particular word reserved, or used periodically, ('annexes') that signified 'putting parts of things together'.

ET (alien) TEN (half score) DALES (valleys). Is 'annexes' that word?

So - is this a valid clue:

:) e.g. Music are a third of Nine Annexes you and half a vortex

Miruvor (Music are a third of nine - the third note, mi, of do re mi-r + (annexes) 'you' (u) and 'half a vortex' is vor)

[Mithalwen]

There are a few words that give a clue to more than one element like in my set of clues I used absorb, take in, and follow... there are others.

With your clue you are getting there. However there is no indication of what you are looking for which you need to be a fair clue. Ideally the solver should be fairly certain they are right when they hit on the right answer but the setter can play around with synonyms and puns and grammer to lead them astray. Personally, being old and text speak being a mystery (thinking LOL meant lots of love for ages.....that was awkward at times) I would give a "sounds like" indicator for you/ u but younger players might disagree!

So at the moment it looks like Music is the "straight clue" so if I were setting on these lines I might do

Cordial note led you, I hear, to partial vortex (/whirlpool/eddy/other synonym)

or

Sounds like you and half-hearted Eddy, followed music to Elvish Spirit

Not saying that these are great clues but they follow the conventions indicating order etc. The straight clue usually goes at one end. Sometimes the straight clue is incorporated in the cryptic but I can't think of one of the top of my head.

Sorry if you feel like you are back at school but it is enthusiasm not criticism. Partly it is code and convention and having a warped and twisty mind. :D

[Ivriniel]

Sorry if you feel like you are back at school but it is enthusiasm not criticism. Partly it is code and convention and having a warped and twisty mind. :D

It's no problem, I appreciate it. I'm fine with the learning, thanx for the tips.

[Ivriniel]

Sounds like you and half-hearted Eddy, followed music to Elvish Spirit

This one, :) oh my god - wait -

'sounds like u' Mi - (where's the 'r') -u- 'half-hearted eddy' (oh my god - that's a double leap 'vortex' 'half-hearted' 'vor'. And spirit, of course, makes sense.

I would have thought

A sound to annexe you and a half-hearted eddy, the music of Elvish Spirit.

[Ivriniel]

.....thinking LOL meant lots of love for ages.....that was awkward at times)...

hahahahaha

Dear Mum and sis,

Thanx for helping me set up the house for guests over Easter.

LOL

hahaha I can imagine!

[Mithalwen]

Oh bother... I missed that ..I am forever finding I have missed or double counted letters just when I think the clue is true... hmm might have to shove a direction in to shove a direction in.. actually I think I set Miruvor a little while ago I will try to find what I actually did...

Yeah as someone said "I'm sorry is the same as I apologise - unless you are at a funeral"......Think along the lines of "I'm sorry your dog died, LOL,"

[Ivriniel]

...Yeah as someone said "I'm sorry is the same as I apologise - unless you are at a funeral"......Think along the lines of "I'm sorry your dog died, LOL,"

hahahaha er mah gerd hahaha

[Pervinca Took]

This one, :) oh my god - wait -

'sounds like u' Mi - (where's the 'r') -u- 'half-hearted eddy' (oh my god - that's a double leap 'vortex' 'half-hearted' 'vor'. And spirit, of course, makes sense.

I would have thought

A sound to annexe you and a half-hearted eddy, the music of Elvish Spirit.

I love Elvish Spirit as a straight clue for Miruvor! That's perhaps an example of the straight clue being slightly cryptic - as it could be spirit as in fea or someone's spirit/personality, but it actually means alcoholic spirit. Like spanner or butter or flower.

Mount is another one we've had fun with in the past as a 'straight part of the clue.' It can sometimes mean a mountain (like Mount Doom), but we've also used it to mean a horse (someone's 'mount' is their horse (they mount it to ride it)).

About annexes - often I'd have said 'joins' or 'fuses with,' but the other fun thing about writing cryptic clues is trying to make the clue sentence make some kind of crazy sense - so if an alien (in this case ET of the Steven Spielberg film) is annexing ten valleys, it sounds like he's invading them and trying to colonise some land). ;) 'Annexed' has sometimes been used in Real World history, I think, when one country has colonised a neighbouring one.

Swallows was a new one that Galadriel55 taught me - when one word or set of letters swallows or completely surrounds another. (Swallows, runs back, returns, joins etc are usually words telling you what to do with the letters, not part of the letters themselves, but they might not always be).

And occasionally we have clues Tolkien-themed but not of Middle-earth. Galadriel did a fantastic one (a few pages back, I think, but not too many), in which each answer was one of J R R Tolkien's family. I once wrote a clue where the straight part was 'hamlet' (small village), but the answer wasn't a Shire or Bree or otherwise Middle-earth village, but Sarehole, where Tolkien and his brother spent a substantial part of their early childhood (which is documented in Humphrey Carpenter's biography and well-known in Tolkien-lore). I have also used both The Eagle And Child and its nickname The Bird And Baby as passwords.

[Mithalwen]

What I actually did was "Elvish jewel precedes unseen rays or spirit?"

[Ivriniel]

Hi there Pervinca - thanx muchly :) yes, annexes usually does imply territory of land, and such.

Elvish Jewel precedes unseen rays or spirit.

Ah, okay, :) what about this

Break a Mirror-the hoover did it vacuuming, a mind far away with Elvish Spirit hahaha (can you used 'hyphens' to designate a join. And it references the head going light on Miruvor whilst 'vacuuming'

Has anyone guessed the shape in Pervinca's Password - my maths head was engaged (that maths's clue did it) :) and I started looking for a word in a NORMAL DISTRIBUTION

[Mithalwen]

Nope, I have no mathematical head (but I can do sums!) clueless

[Ivriniel]

EORL: Troubled knowledge will lead you to him.
ISEN: Trignometric function dislocates itself. It’s hard!
ETTENDALES: Alien annexes half a score of valleys here.
MILO BURROWS: Unprolific writer shows rabbitlike tendencies?
GOLDILOCKS: Shire gal who had dealings with Teddy, Archie and Bruno?
SARUMAN: Unarms a confused villain.
DIS: Take apart, remove coat, reveal her.

Now, the password is in a particular shape. Not a shape that to my knowledge has been used before in this thread, but not altogether alien to half an inset one being done twice. :D



....

[Pervinca Took]

I'm not a motorist, but the password is in a shape that is often seen on the surfaces of roads - mostly motorways - and also one that Legolas would probably be well-acquainted with.

"Elvish jewel precedes unseen rays or spirit?"

One of those clues that also has a Tolkien element as one of the parts that make up the main answer (the main answer being another Tolkieneque thing), MIR meaning jewel in elvish.

Ahhhh - was being a plank and about to ask about unseen rays, but it's UV for ultra-violet, isn't it? And then 'or.'

Ivriniel, there is also the 'Cryptic Clues' thread, which is the same as this one except that it's just one clue at a time, with no password to find. One clue at a time might sound easier - solve it and then it's your go - but it isn't always, because if you simply can't solve the clue, you can't get the initial letter to solve it, whereas with the Password, you've more chance of guessing at least one of the clues (and the password usually just reads down the first letters of each clue).

Check it out, because Mithalwen has just guessed my last clue, so will probably be posting a new one quite soon.

[Galadriel55]

Ha! Turns out I knew the password even before your clue, I just forgot that such a word existed in Tolkienesque. :D I finally looked it up and turns out it's a thing! But as I have not guessed a single clue, I'll let those who have done the hard work get the prize.

[Ivriniel]

Not touching it. I'm going to press onwards enjoying being ignorant, and will be sure to cheer when I guess a clue.....

[Mithalwen]

I am a motorist but avoid motorways and nearly failed for the third time on the highway code (this was before the separate theory test and mercifully also before you had to reverse park to pass). So baffled. Galadriel, you may as well go for it else we are going to be here a very long time...

[Galadriel55]

Ok, if you say so. But you can take the turn still.

The password is ESTOLAD - in the shape of an arrow (two diagonals). Until this password, I evidently happily ignored this part of the map. :p I kept trying to scramble the letters to get something familiar, but of course without luck.

Who wants to take it?

[Mithalwen]

Oh I tried that but when Est wasn't followed elyn I gave up.

I don't have time to do one again so quickly, I really need to get my RPG post up and so feel free to jump in. Otherwise it might be several days.

[Pervinca Took]

EORL: Troubled knowledge will lead you to him.
ISEN: Trignometric function dislocates itself. It’s hard!
ETTENDALES: Alien annexes half a score of valleys here.
MILO BURROWS: Unprolific writer shows rabbitlike tendencies?
GOLDILOCKS: Shire gal who had dealings with Teddy, Archie and Bruno?
SARUMAN: Unarms a confused villain.
DIS: Take apart, remove coat, reveal her.

A chevron-shaped Estolad it is. :)

Well done everyone, and over to Galadriel.

[Galadriel55]

Wait, what? No one wants to step up?

Mith, it's gonna take me a while as well, so if you can get yours done before I can go ahead with it. :)

[Galadriel55]

Ok, I got something ready... Mith, are you sure you don't want to go? If you have one, I can just save this for later.


1. He wrecks destruction and drink, did you say?

2. Dwarf confused foreign colour.

3. One European mixed up men.

4. Girl and boy make a cross-breed.

5. King label

6. Tree (or is it?) endlessly shot.

7. Animal, master, and statement.

8. Behold! Feverish, confused man.

9. Leader mixes small direction.

[Mithalwen]

Very sure

is 4 Elladan Ella & Dan and one of the halfelven even though more like 3/4 elven

[Pervinca Took]

Very unconfident one: 5. Tar because kings are Tar- and Kings are a kind of cigarette (or used to be) and Tar sometimes gets put on cigarette packets too (I'm thinking of the days when they were advertised in magazines - low tar etc).

I did say it was unconfident. ;)

[Mithalwen]

Taking a punt at Bill for 7 - Pony, his ex master Bill Ferny and a bill can be a statement of account amongst other things...

[Galadriel55]

1. He wrecks destruction and drink, did you say?

2. Dwarf confused foreign colour.

3. One European mixed up men.

4. ELLADAN Girl and boy make a cross-breed.

5. King label

6. Tree (or is it?) endlessly shot.

7. BILL Animal, master, and statement.

8. Behold! Feverish, confused man.

9. Leader mixes small direction.


Sorry Pervinca, not Tar. But you're certainly on the right track.

[Pervinca Took]

3. EDAIN for men? Dane plus I.

[Pervinca Took]

1. He wrecks destruction and drink, did you say?

TURIN? Ruin 'wrecked' plus T which sounds like a drink?

Only just noticed where the 'did you say' would come in.

[Pervinca Took]

8. Behold! Feverish, confused man.

The nearest I can get at present is LO! for Behold plus HOT for Feverish, confused to LOTHO.

Unfortunately, though, Lotho is a hobbit, not a man. :)

[Galadriel55]

Unfortunately, though, Lotho is a hobbit, not a man. :)

Well, he's not a woman! :smokin: But not a Man either, though that's something different.

Anyways, well done so far! Spot on with your guesses and perfect reasoning!


1. TURIN He wrecks destruction and drink, did you say?

2. Dwarf confused foreign colour.

3. EDAIN One European mixed up men.

4. ELLADAN Girl and boy make a cross-breed.

5. King label

6. Tree (or is it?) endlessly shot.

7. BILL Animal, master, and statement.

8. LOTHO Behold! Feverish, confused man.

9. Leader mixes small direction.

[Nerwen]

Is #2 "Nori"? (The "foreign colour" being "noir").

[Pervinca Took]

And I thought I'd been through all the French and German colours, and the elvish ones! (Bows to Nerwen, assuming it's correct).

Could the King label simply be Elessar?

(Or maybe it's the label of authenticity on the Tincture of Athelas bottle). ;) Approved by the King.

[Galadriel55]

Nori is correct. Elessar is not. You were closer with Tar.

[Pervinca Took]

Not sure if we need to account for 'label' apart from its just being the word/name for a king? But will guess at ARAN, the Quenya word for king.

[Galadriel55]

Not Aran. The clue is cryptic; thus, there is a straight clue and a cryptic part. The king is the straight clue.


1. TURIN He wrecks destruction and drink, did you say?

2. NORI Dwarf confused foreign colour.

3. EDAIN One European mixed up men.

4. ELLADAN Girl and boy make a cross-breed.

5. King label

6. Tree (or is it?) endlessly shot.

7. BILL Animal, master, and statement.

8. LOTHO Behold! Feverish, confused man.

9. Leader mixes small direction.



Any thoughts for #6 or #9?

[Pervinca Took]

Ah ... could it be label as in brand? The brand of goods on the label?

King BRAND of Dale? (Son of Bain, son of Bard, if I've got them in the right order).

[Pervinca Took]

I'm not going to be around for a couple of weeks to post another password if I'm right (so please, if I'm right, someone else step in once the clues are all correctly guessed), but is the password UNDERHILL, going in a zigzag from top to bottom between the 2nd and 1st letters of the answers?

The thought that it might be gives me an idea for the tree clue, but I will not post this until I can justify the cryptic part of it.

[Pervinca Took]

Unless ... perhaps 'endlessly shot' is what happened to the huorns under Saruman's orders?

And it's sort of debatable whether or not a HUORN is actually a tree.

[Galadriel55]

Ah ... could it be label as in brand? The brand of goods on the label?

King BRAND of Dale? (Son of Bain, son of Bard, if I've got them in the right order).

Hurray!!!

I'm not going to be around for a couple of weeks to post another password if I'm right (so please, if I'm right, someone else step in once the clues are all correctly guessed), but is the password UNDERHILL, going in a zigzag from top to bottom between the 2nd and 1st letters of the answers?

Perfect. :D

Unless ... perhaps 'endlessly shot' is what happened to the huorns under Saruman's orders?

And it's sort of debatable whether or not a HUORN is actually a tree.

Mwahahaha! The answer is not Huorn, but close. This is a cryptic clue, though, and a tad more devious than the rest, but it still has a straight clue and cryptic part. The straight clue might not be what you think, though.


1. TURIN He wrecks destruction and drink, did you say?

2. NORI Dwarf confused foreign colour.

3. EDAIN One European mixed up men.

4. ELLADAN Girl and boy make a cross-breed.

5. BRAND King label

6. H Tree (or is it?) endlessly shot.

7. BILL Animal, master, and statement.

8. LOTHO Behold! Feverish, confused man.

9. ... L Leader mixes small direction.

[Pervinca Took]

'Endlessly shot,' and looking for ways to make it work, has made me envisage Vollywood - the Valinor equivalent of Bollywood, and all the handsome elves as film stars ... oh dear.

A pleasant image, though. :)

[Galadriel55]

'Endlessly shot,' and looking for ways to make it work, has made me envisage Vollywood - the Valinor equivalent of Bollywood, and all the handsome elves as film stars ... oh dear.

A pleasant image, though. :)

Would you like another hint now, while we're both online? ;)

[Pervinca Took]

I've been thinking 'family tree,' but ...

Go on then! ;)

EDIT: Haleth, who founded a family tree? Because I think she was a hunter, and they would shoot (but 'shot' is passive voice).

[Galadriel55]

There are two Tolkien elements in the clue. Huorn is indeed the tree (or is it), but that's not the straight clue (or the answer).


PS: sorry for the late response, I didn't see your post until now. I was writing a post for RP and I forgot to refresh... :(

[Pervinca Took]

An endless Huorn would be HUOR - was he a good shot? Handy with a bow and arrow?

EDIT: Well ... he was shot in the eye with a poisoned arrow, and so died.

[Galadriel55]

An endless Huorn would be HUOR - was he a good shot? Handy with a bow and arrow?

EDIT: Well ... he was shot in the eye with a poisoned arrow, and so died.

*applause*

1. TURIN He wrecks destruction and drink, did you say?

2. NORI Dwarf confused foreign colour.

3. EDAIN One European mixed up men.

4. ELLADAN Girl and boy make a cross-breed.

5. BRAND King label

6. HUOR Tree (or is it?) endlessly shot.

7. BILL Animal, master, and statement.

8. LOTHO Behold! Feverish, confused man.

9. ... L Leader mixes small direction.

[Pervinca Took]

Although 'low' is a bit of a stretch for 'small,' I'll have a guess at OLWE (with E for the direction).

[Galadriel55]

Although 'low' is a bit of a stretch for 'small,' I'll have a guess at OLWE (with E for the direction).

You don't even realize how close you are. :eek: (but no cigar :()

[Pervinca Took]

Oh! ELWE - wee for little? (And L for the direction).

[Galadriel55]

Perfect. :D Over to you.

[Pervinca Took]

Yay! And a great zig-zag password (applauds again). :)

This took me a little while to put together, because I no longer have a piled-up stock of password clues, but I hope you enjoy it:

1. Bold grey takes direction for her.
2. Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
3. Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
4. Leaf mingles with crude fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
5. Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
6. Hesitate, know, mark him.
7. Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
8. Quaint tile around the mountain.

[Galadriel55]

I'll hazard a guess - Celebdil for #5? Google etymology tells me chill once used to be cele or ciele. It's a peak. No clue how to make bitter liquid out of bd(i)l.

[Mithalwen]

I suspect bile is the bitter liquid and d or the extra e the lost note

[Pervinca Took]

1. Bold grey takes direction for her.
2. Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
3. Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
4. Leaf mingles with crude fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
CELEBDIL: Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
6. Hesitate, know, mark him.
7. Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
8. Quaint tile around the mountain.

Both close enough for a cigar. It's actually Old English CEALD for cold - I started the clue with 'Old English cold,' but thought chill flowed better in the 'sense' of the sentence, and 'chill' can be synonymous with 'cold.' So CEALD mixes with BILE and loses the A.

[Galadriel55]

I suspect bile is the bitter liquid and d or the extra e the lost note

That's what I thought this morning, but couldn't post it until now. But it's weird that my answer is incorrect but still turns out right! :D

[Pervinca Took]

Not really - your answer was correct, and your reasoning nearly correct. ;)

[Mithalwen]

It happens a lot to me at least with cryptic crosswords. You know it has to be a certain word - or when you get the solution - but you don't quite see why.

[Galadriel55]

6. Erkenbrand? Er=hesitate, brand=mark, ken = ??? somehow must become know.

[Mithalwen]

ken does mean know though it is archaic save in some dialects. I guess it is linked to the German kennen. It isn't widely used save in expressions like "beyond my ken" or the old song "Do you ken John Peel?"

[Pervinca Took]

1. Bold grey takes direction for her.
2. Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
3. Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
4. Leaf mingles with crude fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
CELEBDIL: Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
ERKENBRAND: Hesitate, know, mark him.
7. Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
8. Quaint tile around the mountain.

'Ken' is still widely used in Scotland, and I remember it being used in a cryptic clue on a game show in the 80's. ;)

I think you've started with two of the hardest clues, by the way.

[Galadriel55]

3. Morannon = Roan+moan-a+n


Also, I found these clues easier because I knew where to start. I tend to get lost with clues that have synonyms and anagrams because there are so many possibilities. Like, for the past few days I've been trying to name Sauron's speciality, but things like "trickery" and "evil" don't really work well. ;) My trouble is with finding the right words, not with sticking them together.

PS: also, my first thought about this clue was Doors of the Dead. :D

[Galadriel55]

Oh! Ringlore - re = Ringlo for 2!

[Mithalwen]

Ah I was reverse engineering from Ringil which was a struggle...

[Pervinca Took]

1. Bold grey takes direction for her.
RINGLO: Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
MORANNON: Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
4. Leaf mingles with crude, backward form of fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
CELEBDIL: Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
ERKENBRAND: Hesitate, know, mark him.
7. Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
8. Quaint tile around the mountain.

Indeed! Ringlore minus RE (the humanity subject, Religious Education).

[Urwen]

Methinks the answer for 4 is Finrod. Tried the combinations and he is the only one that makes sense.

[Pervinca Took]

You ARE right ... in a sense ....

But not quite right enough to justify the cryptic elements. ;) Can you tell me the thinking behind your answer?

[Urwen]

Simple. The synonym for leaf is Frond. If you add letter I which I think is the fertilizer and changed the order a bit, you get Finrod.

[Pervinca Took]

Ingenious ... but wrong. ;)

'I' is a bit of a stretch for a fertiliser!

Try again. You are very close, but the word 'frond' is not involved.

[Urwen]

But there must be a frond somewhere in there and I don't know anyone else who has frond as part of their name.

[Pervinca Took]

Sometimes you don't need a synonym. ;) That's also true of the last of the clues ....

I've added a little to clue 4, to hopefully make it easier.

[Urwen]

In that case, the answer is either Faelivrin (nickname for Finduilas) or Feanor

[Pervinca Took]

Both wrong, I'm afraid. You were closer with Finrod.

[Mithalwen]

ahh 4 is Felagund anagram of leaf and dung. I thought of dung ages ago but couldn't make it work

[Galadriel55]

Ah. I was trying to scramble various combinations of crudely misspelled manure with leaves in English and Elvish. :D

[Pervinca Took]

'Tis e'en so!

1. Bold grey takes direction for her.
RINGLO: Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
MORANNON: Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
FELAGUND: Leaf mingles with crude form of fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
CELEBDIL: Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
ERKENBRAND: Hesitate, know, mark him.
7. Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
8. Quaint tile around the mountain.

P.S. Don't overthink the remaining clues. The answer may be there, not synonymised. ;)

P.P.S. Duh ... Dung backwards is not Gund but Gnud, I've just realised. The clue was better before I changed it. 'Almost backward' would work, I suppose.

P.P.P.S. Galadriel, that's quite an image! The Lady of the Wood takes a more 'hands-on' approach to the preservation of Lorien's beauty.

[Urwen]

7 is Shire.

[Mithalwen]

8 Is Taniquetil - again a simple anagram of Quaint Tile... sneaky you are usually far more complex than this!

[Urwen]

1 is Bolger.

[Mithalwen]

I think it may well be a Bolger but the clue indicates it should be a female one and I can't quite make it work for Ruby. Also takes direction suggests that BOLD GREY, if it is a simple anagram needs an additional letter most likely N,S,E,W, L or R rather than to lose them.

so now I have written all that I think it is in fact GOLDBERRY which is an anagram of BOLD GREY with an extra R (for the direction "right").

[Pervinca Took]

GOLDBERRY: Bold grey takes direction for her.
RINGLO: Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
MORANNON: Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
FELAGUND: Leaf mingles with crude form of fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
CELEBDIL: Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
ERKENBRAND: Hesitate, know, mark him.
7. Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
TANIQUETIL: Quaint tile around the mountain.

Goldberry and Taniquetil are correct; Bolger and Shire are not.

EDIT: Sorry, I typed a less laconic reply, but then lost internet access (and hence message) on the train.

Good work Urwen, and welcome/welcome back to the thread! Remember that you need to account for each letter, though - you'd have to lose some of the letters to get to Bolger, and there's no 'loses' in that particular clue.

[Urwen]

Then the french direction should be either 'gauche' or 'droite' (french for left and right). I don't know how it fits with Aylesbury rockers, though. When I googled it, I got baby rockers and swings.... *is confused* Unless it's letter A that's supposed to be added..... but that wouldn't work either......

[Mithalwen]

Or Nord, Est, Sud or Oest...

But Aylesbury has me stumped. I can't find any famous bands that come from there. It is mainly known for its geese...

[Urwen]

Going off Mithalwen's idea, it could be Este.....

Rock band in Aylesbury is Kontraband......

[Mithalwen]

I think we need a place.. Mandos and Lorien are originally place names. Don't know about Este

[Urwen]

Aglarond?

In case this is not it, here's an index of tolkien locations (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Index:Locations). Hopefully someone will make sense of it.

P.S
Might I try one after this, just to see if I can?

[Pervinca Took]

I didn't know they were from Aylesbury at first. I looked the band up first and found out that they were.

If you read the clue again, you might not need a French direction. ;) And 'place' might have a wider definition than you think, here.

Let's see if anyone gets it after that, and if not, I'll give another clue.

Urwen, the person who guesses the hidden password gets to do the next clue, so I can't say yes, but a) if you ask the password guesser they might say yes, and b) you might be the guesser of the password yourself!

As you can see, it's not a 'straight down the initial letters' password, but it should be guessable now, I think.

[Mithalwen]

Now I have it...while I am more of a Baroque Opera girl myself, some later stuff has permeated my consciousness...so Silmarillion...Si plus l plus Marillion who I discover come from Aylesbury,

[Pervinca Took]

Well done! And of course, the band were Tolkien fans and wanted to call themselves Silmarillion (I guess it was a copyright issue that said they couldn't).

Now - who can see the password?

GOLDBERRY: Bold grey takes direction for her.
RINGLO: Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
MORANNON: Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
FELAGUND: Leaf mingles with crude form of fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
CELEBDIL: Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
ERKENBRAND: Hesitate, know, mark him.
SILMARILLION: Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
TANIQUETIL: Quaint tile around the mountain.

(Incidentally, Felagund was not a Noldorin name, but it was an epesse given to Finrod, who was high and Noldorin).

[Urwen]

Can't find it.....I guess I missed my chance.....

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I think it's Girabbit

[Urwen]

I think it's Girabbit

:/

[Pervinca Took]

It is indeed Girabbit - the diagonal is unusually difficult to read due to the different sizes of the letters, which make it look slightly wonky.

GOLDBERRY: Bold grey takes direction for her.
RINGLO: Sauron’s speciality loses humanity for a flower.
MORANNON: Lament mingles with horse colour. Loses note but adds direction, for a sombre portal.
FELAGUND: Leaf mingles with crude form of fertiliser, but the result is high and Noldorin.
CELEBDIL: Old English chill mingles with bitter liquid, but loses note at the peak.
ERKENBRAND: Hesitate, know, mark him.
SILMARILLION: Here interweave many tales, if French direction meets the Aylesbury rockers.
TANIQUETIL: Quaint tile around the mountain.

I've always been fond of the Mr Bliss book.

So, over to Squatter ...

[Mithalwen]

I never read it though I have a vague awareness.. but not enough not to give up on the diagonals

[Urwen]

I asked the winner to let me take their place, waiting for their reply.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I've agreed to give up my place, so over to Urwen

[Urwen]

1. A gentleman mixes up with an entrance
2. Reversed regulation meets a chemical element
3. Large quantity goes with reversed exclamation
4. Backwards, what knights say is joined up with half of the city in Australia
5. An article joins up with someone who used to run backwards.
6. Dizzy sun has a chemical element in the middle

(those are pretty simple, but I am getting the hang of it, so bear with me)

[Pervinca Took]

2. Elurin? Rule backwards, plus In for Indium.

[Galadriel55]

3. Lotho? (A) lot mixes with oh backwards.

[Pervinca Took]

Based on ideas for the rest of the answers - and I am only guessing at elements of the clues at the moment - I am going to have a guess at MELIAN for the password.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Mr + door = Mordor?

[Urwen]

1. MORDOR (A gentleman mixes up with an entrance)
2. ELURIN (Reversed regulation meets a chemical element)
3. LOTHO (Large quantity goes with reversed exclamation)
4. Backwards, what knights say is joined up with half of the city in Australia
5. An article joins up with someone who used to run backwards.
6. Dizzy sun has a chemical element in the middle




Based on ideas for the rest of the answers - and I am only guessing at elements of the clues at the moment - I am going to have a guess at MELIAN for the password.

T'is correct.

[Urwen]

Oh, and fourth clue is wrong. Part of the answer is exclusive to my language and it isn't exactly backwards either. So because of the fallacy, I am giving the answer to that one, which is Indis.

[Pervinca Took]

I was going to guess Indis because I thought it started with NI backwards (which those Monty Python knights say), but I looked for Australian cities for the DIS and couldn't find one that worked.

Oh - I guess Sydney if you change the first Y to I.

The others may take a while, because these clues don't quite follow the conventions of cryptic crossword clues, in that they don't give a clue to the straight answer as well as the cryptic elements. (But great clues nonetheless!) And it's great to have another player on board.

[Urwen]

I am still new, but in time, I will make the clues better.

[Pervinca Took]

The nearest I can get is Numos (former/discarded name of Armenelos), but I don't think the element Mo has been discovered yet. :D

Oh hang on, there is a Mo in the Periodic Table. Its full name is Molybdenum.

[Urwen]

No. That's the only clue that has Tolkien term in it. Think of the sun in tolkien-esque way.

[Pervinca Took]

Aratan?

Anar (Elvish for sun) with Ta in the middle for Tantalum.

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Galadriel55]

You know, speaking of Anar, it sounds like the answer to 5. "A" + "ran" backwards.

[Galadriel55]

Oh, and Narya for the other one? Anar + Y for Yttrium.

For the record, Urwen, your clues were great! Certainly better than my first attempts. They don't follow the cryptic clues conventions to the dot, but they were still fun to work at - and hey, this is the Password thread, not Cryptic Clues, so it doesn't even have to be cryptic in the first place. :)

[Urwen]

1. MORDOR (A gentleman mixes up with an entrance)
2. ELURIN (Reversed regulation meets a chemical element)
3. LOTHO (Large quantity goes with reversed exclamation)
4. INDIS (Backwards, what knights say is joined up with half of the city in Australia)
5. ANAR (An article joins up with someone who used to run backwards.)
6. Dizzy sun has a chemical element in the middle

Answer to six is a horse. Can you figure out which horse?

[Pervinca Took]

I did wonder if it was A + ran, but 'someone' made me think I needed an ex-athlete. (Not my best area of knowledge!) ;)

Anyway, Nar is a person, of course.

And yes, Galadriel is right. It isn't the Cryptic Clues thread. A brilliant first password.

6. NAHAR? Anar again, plus H for Hydrogen.

[Urwen]

I did wonder if it was A + ran, but 'someone' made me think I needed an ex-athlete. (Not my best area of knowledge!) ;)

Anyway, Nar is a person, of course.

And yes, Galadriel is right. It isn't the Cryptic Clues thread. A brilliant first password.

6. NAHAR? Anar again, plus H for Hydrogen.

And with that, you won the right to post the next password.

[Pervinca Took]

Here you are, then:

1. Port loses note, you hear? ... troubled is this realm.
2. Edge back, lie around, but don’t blame her.
3. Norse bard loses direction, but mingles with valley for a flower.
4. Happy street, yet troubled? It’s plain.
5. Dwarf meets troll for a Bolger.

[Urwen]

Could 2 be Miriel? (rim backwards and lie anagram-ed)

5 is Filibert Bolger.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Port loses note, you hear? ... troubled is this realm.
MIRIEL: Edge back, lie around, but don’t blame her.
3. Norse bard loses direction, but mingles with valley for a flower.
4. Happy street, yet troubled? It’s plain.
FILIBERT: Dwarf meets troll for a Bolger.

Well done! Plus the fact that Miriel asked Finwe to hold her blameless for what happened, and what might happen afterwards.

I thought of making it 'Dwarf meets troll for a hobbit,' but decided that would be too mean. ;)

[Galadriel55]

I thought of making it 'Dwarf meets troll for a hobbit,' but decided that would be too mean. ;)

So now we know how the evolution of hobbits took place. :D

EDIT: 4. Dagorlad - road and glad.

[Pervinca Took]

Yep! Dagorland Plain.

1. Port loses note, you hear? ... troubled is this realm.
MIRIEL: Edge back, lie around, but don’t blame her.
3. Norse bard loses direction, but mingles with valley for a flower.
DAGORLAD: Happy street, yet troubled? It’s plain.
FILIBERT: Dwarf meets troll for a Bolger.

There's a little surprise, password-wise. I'll say no more for now. ;)

[Urwen]

3. Elanor?

[Pervinca Took]

No - in cryptic land, a spanner can be a bridge (a think that spans), a butter can be a thing that butts (a goat), and a flower can be a thing that flows (rather than flowers). ;)

(Thanks to Mithalwen for teaching me these). :)

[Mithalwen]

While a bloomer is something that blooms... ie a flower....

[Urwen]

3. Rivendell?

[Pervinca Took]

A bloomer could be a loaf of bread (but a bit of a stretch for cram or lembas) or I suppose half a pair of knickers ... but not much scope for a Tolkien clue either way, perhaps? ;)

Not Rivendell ... 'for a flower' implies that you put together the cryptic elements to find the flower (river/stream), not that the valley is the straight part of the clue.